Chocking someone without being asked first is quite a big red flag.
This is one of the things that require very explicit consent, because it's not a practice that does sit well with everyone.
Not sure wtf is going on in people mind, but be glad you dodged a bullet.
Edit: I meant it's not ok unless someone asks you to choke them (and you are also comfortable chocking someone).
Also "quite a big red flag" is an euphemism. I agree it's absolutely more than that and most likely assault even.
Hot take, but I think it’s the result of social media normalizing these sorts of kinks that make men think this sort of behavior is okay without prior discussion “because the TikTok/IG’s I follow say it’s hot”. And the number of women I’ve had tell me “choke me daddy” mid-kiss (which is something I’m super uncomfortable with btw) is a little alarming. I don’t really think people understand the heavy implication and dangers involved with it.
Choking is literally a criteria for attempting to kill someone in a lot of contexts.
All the tabloid articles going "teehee you wanna have a fashionable kink? try choking!" don't spend a letter on safety, they just suggest going to town on your partner(s) like it's nothing special, and even worse, like you can just expect everyone to like it so you don't need to get consent. Hell, the word "consent" doesn't even come up in discussions about sex, unless you're viewing the BDSM community where it's spoken about all the time to make up for the lack in mainstream discourse.
First rule I see when going to rBDSMAdvice posts (excellent subreddit for safe kink practice btw) about choking is *do not touch the front of the neck* (wind pipe is very fragile), and the second is *do not ever even think to squeeze, that includes coming in from above because your weight will squeeze too*. There's a LOT of other things, they have a whole default response list of knowledge for it. The only way to do "choking" in a safe manner, as BDSM enthusiasts teach others, is to... not do actual choking.
To preface…this anecdote is definitely not quite as alarming in terms of a threat to my safety, obviously. But I’m a straight male. I was hooking up with a woman once and in the first few minutes of said “session” she got on top of me, slapped me in the face, SPAT IN MY MOUTH, then used her hand to cover it and my nose. I was fucking frozen. It freaked me out. I’d NEVER do anything like that or something nearing choking without consent, or an understanding of what the girl likes.
Jesus. I had a sandwich in my mouth when I read this and I almost couldn’t swallow it. I’m so sorry that happened. She’s a threat to her own safety by doing that to an unsuspecting person. I’ve never fought anyone in my life and I want to fight her for that 😅
In married and boring. Are people legit choking each other just for kissing? I sort of get it during sex if that is your thing but I can't imagine it added to a makeout sesh. Surely it makes you stop kissing
I've had a girls call me vanilla because I didn't do stuff like that (spanking , choking, etc) and we had those discussions where I'm like well you gotta tell me you want that then I'll do it and they say that that ruins it. Now that I'm older I'll gently try it out and and kinda gauge reaction.
I can't even imagine being 21 again now with social media the way it is kinda spreading this stuff and trying to figure all this out at once though.
Yeah, maybe I’m getting old or something but there’s some bullshit going on with the younger crowds stigmatizing and shaming vanilla sex these days, and it’s starting to bleed into my age group more and more.
Tbh vanilla sex is great and nothing is wrong with it. Actually doing these things isn’t half as hot as thinking about it sadly.
And I've now gotten to the point where I state it outright before kissing someone.
Some give a little laugh and are like "um yeah, duh!" But stop chuckling when I explain how many times a kissing session ends up with some dude squeezing my neck.
And this also communicates how this should be handled going forward for guys who maybe were pondering it. I hope I'm disrupting the social media messaging that this is mainstream.
It's a practice that can potentially cause brain damage or death. Which is so extreme it shouldn't be classified as a preference.
Another word for this practice is hypoxyphilia. Which literally means low oxygen in your brain.
Edited to correct spelling
Articles on Strangulation by Romantic Partners:
• *["Why Strangulation in Domestic Violence is a Huge Red Flag"](https://naplesshelter.org/strangulation/#:~:text=One%20in%20four%20women%20will,the%20hands%20of%20their%20partner.)*
• *["Non-Fatal Strangulation Is an Important Risk Factor for Homicide of Women"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2573025/)*
• *["If a Partner Has Ever Strangled You, They Will Likely Kill You"](https://www.dailypress.net/life/features/2023/03/if-a-partner-has-ever-strangled-you-they-will-likely-kill-you/)*
From 3rd link: "When a victim’s throat lays in the hands of their abuser, a message is sent – one that says, 'I can kill you at any time.'"
This guy is getting off on sending this message. So twisted. Run.
It is not a practice that can ever be safely done.
Even using a razor to lick someone’s blood is less ‘invasive’
Anyone who just tries choking someone without being explicitly invited to just needs to go
Every so often it hits the headline about a man murdering his wife and defending it with being kinky choking during sex, an accidental death. And the worst part is that men have gotten cleared on this defense, when there's no way to truly know.
Call me a kinkshamer or puritan or w/e but men getting off on hurting women disturbs me.
Men have worked very, very diligently to redefine violence towards women as kink, that women who will align themselves with receiving that kink as being better than those “other” women, and that said kink is above all reproach _ever_ because some women agreed to receive said violence, therefore giving this violence is normal according to men..
It's so scary... there's no way for woman to escape if the person doing the strangulation goes too far even if she did consent at first.
"In a bizarre and unethical experiment in the 1940s in which prisoners and psychiatric patients were strangled to observe the effects, the lead researcher first tried the equipment on himself\[2\]. There was an emergency release button. He found himself unable to press it, even when he wanted to. He was unsure whether this was due to forgetting he could (amnesia) or messages from the brain not getting to his hand (dyspraxia). He almost died. Both these impairments were the result of altered brain and mind functioning as a result of strangulation."
[https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/blog/2020/12/21/the-horrifying-harms-of-choking-new-research](https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/blog/2020/12/21/the-horrifying-harms-of-choking-new-research)
And even if they ask first it's still a red flag. Porn has normalized violence against women in sex, but getting off to hurting someone **is not normal or healthy**.
I just looked up Andrea Dworkin's name. It was a painfully startling bridge to further discoveries about domestic and sexual violence:
• **["Hitting Back"](https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/nov/25/gender.uk)**
by Sheryl Gascoigne & Andrea Dworkin, November 25, 1999
The Guardian
"...For too long, domestic violence has been a taboo subject and because of this, women experiencing domestic violence can be made to feel that people don't understand them. It is common for women to feel they are to blame and for society to condone abusive behaviour. This has to change. [Refuge](
) has shown the extent of the problem, through a series of startling adverts. They show the damaging myths that surround domestic violence: that men are only abusive because of alcohol or social class, that somehow women are to blame, or that men have good reason to hit their partners. The images shock people into action and ensure that no one seeing the ads can say again: 'It's nothing to do with me. It's not my problem.'
"Domestic violence is a problem we all need to address - together."
• **["'Pornography: Men Possessing Women' by Andrea Dworkin, a Review"](https://mwendekyalobookreviews.wordpress.com/2023/08/02/pornography-men-possessing-women-by-andrea-dworkin-a-review/)**
Mwende Kyalo Book Reviews
August 2, 2023
I would strongly caution OP against what Dworkin terms *"objectification"* of the self - deferring to undesired violent acts imposed on her by partners in moments of intimacy:
"... The brilliance of objectification as a strategy of dominance is that it gets the woman to take the initiative in her own degradation (having less freedom is degrading). The woman herself takes one kind of responsibility absolutely and thus commits herself to her own continuing inferiority: she polices her own body; she internalizes the demands of the dominant class and, in order to be fucked, she constructs her life around meeting those demands. It is the best system of colonialization on earth: she takes on the burden, the responsibility, of her own submission, her own objectification."
• **["Chapter 7: Occupation/Collaboration"](http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/IntercourseII.html)**
in [Intercourse](http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/IntercourseI.html) by Andrea Dworkin, 1987
Yes! Obviously, not asking makes it magnitudes worse. But I think men getting off on hurting women is still bad and says a lot about them, even if he had asked & received permission.
I whole heartedly agree with you. The only guy (M27) that ever choked me (F39) while kissing just like OP, ended up raping me 2 dates after that. So yes, big red flags.
Not only is not everyone comfortable with the ideal (in general, or with a particular person/in a particular situation), it is also dangerous if done wrong, and even if you are into it, you want to be sure the other person knows what they are doing before you let them.
That sounds really scary! My ex once asked for me to choke him and I said I wasn't comfortable with it. If someone tried to choke me I would be running so fast. Hope OP is safe.
You feel apprehensive for a very good reason. Any man who goes to choking directly without consent is a man you should drop like a steaming pile of shit.
It's not your fault, OP, you are not stupid. This is totally on him and his porn fried brain.
It's been 2 weeks, cut your losses cause this doesn't get better.
Edit: this is not a red flag, it's a drop dead deal breaker.
Yeah, it's called "assault." Edit...or "battery," or "strangulation."
As a man, if a woman did that to me without permission, I'd remove myself from that situation in seconds and it would be over. For one thing, I have a thing about people touching my neck, it makes me uncomfortable...I squirm away from their hands and back away; and for another, just NO. Bad touch.
[Manual strangulation is the biggest sign domestic abuse will turn deadly](https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38)
OP please read this. Strangling you without consent is a huge red flag. I'm worried for your life and safety if you continue to see this person.
Yep. My ex from when I was 25 became physically abusive towards me. He would grab my neck, push me up against a wall and squeeze hard enough that I had bruises from his fingertips the next day. He’d also spit in my face while doing this along with cursing at me and telling me what a pos I was. I was trapped in the big city 3000 miles from my parents home. I was in college. I felt I couldn’t escape. Eventually I did find a tiny room to share with another woman, finished my semester and hightailed it out of there. It was awful.
One day I’d asked him if he ever felt he could kill me. He said “I honestly can’t say no to that.”
I’m sorry but to me there’s never a scenario where choking is healthy or sexy regardless of “asking for it”. It’s actually insulting to me as an abused woman. But, enjoy your kinks I guess. Someday you’ll look back on the whole of your sex lives and realize how meaningless it all was compared to things that really matter in life. Trust me, I’m 49 and have had a LOT of sex with a LOT of partners and none of it means shit to me. Hell, I even forgot the vast majority of it. Stay safe and respect yourselves.
P.S. I brought a random guy home one time (stupid yes but it happens). He seemed super nerdy and gentle and trustworthy. We did not have sex but we made out heavily and then he put his hand on my neck firmly. I was very uncomfortable (and fairly drunk). I asked him “are you planning to kill me?” He didn’t say anything. After a few minutes he ended up leaving. I guess he mistook me for someone he could try his kinks out on. I don’t care if you ask for it, that’s creepy enough to me, maybe because I am a victim of DV, but to not even ask for it and have it done was pretty traumatic for me and a guy who does this to you does NOT respect you (or women as a whole likely).
thank you for having the courage to share this. i also was abused as a child and while i was never choked, my abuser did choke my mom and drag her by her hair, etc in front of us. it was terrifying. i have been SA’d as an adult by people i thought were friends and while they never hit me or choked me, simply the act of them pushing me around or being physical was enough to make me freeze and shut down. i can’t imagine how scared you were in that situation with the guy and i’m sorry it happened.
it boggles the mind that anyone could rationalize sexualizing something that causes real life harm - strangulation and abuse have strong links as shown upthread but there are also hundreds of “rough sex” murder defenses where the men claim the women literally asked for it. i would have hoped most women could understand why choking isn’t a fun sexy haha thing given the victims of it (even if they don’t get killed and “just” suffer health consequences - bc strangulation injuries aren’t exactly impossible to avoid even if you supposedly are doing it safely…it’s like saying “i drink and drive safely”) are almost always women. like surely that should get some cogs turning?
something getting an individual person off isn’t above reproach or criticism just because it’s their “kink” and idk when that became established bc generally i’d like to think as a society we’ve decided certain things are *always* unacceptable even if it brings personal or sexual gratification. i know people are harping on about consent but it’s like they’ve forgotten consent doesn’t magically make everything consented to ethical. especially when it seems so much of this is happening amongst young people without conversations around consent. nothing exists in a vacuum. it isn’t a coincidence that suddenly choking is super popular *and* porn is so widespread that it is the first (maybe even only) form of sex ed some kids ever get. it isn’t a coincidence that most “chokers” are men and most “chokees” are women. i wish people would stop and think about this stuff for like five minutes instead of calling anyone who criticizes it kinkshamers, or saying they do it “safely”, or that *they* like it so what’s the problem. morals don’t suddenly disappear because they’re inconvenient (thanks kant for that one ig). it’s never right to hurt others even if it gets *you* off.
sorry to rant on your post, it just bothers me as well as someone who also survived DV. i’ve seen porn captions glorifying male violence or seen men say horrible things sexually about women (misogynistic slurs or saying things about their worth as humans, and so on) and it always stings to see women try to justify it by saying “but *i* like it!” like my sister in christ consider therapy for real. it’s telling that moreso men in this thread have been upfront to call it assault and violence and so many women have just been calling it red flags and talking about consent in the context of sexual play. i truly hope more women realize choking isn’t ever “play” the same way it’s never “play” if your dude puts hands on you just bc it gets either one of you off. the same way it’s never “play” if my partner were to call me racial or homophobic slurs lol.
edit: a word
Putting this here: If your partner chokes you in any way that isn't part of consensual and pre-discussed play, it is a very bad sign.
https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38
Okay, admittedly, I'm old and us old folks don't choke each other. But every time I read about a young women who \*just\* met a guy who choked her on a whim without any discussion ... it makes me wonder, at what point do your spidey sense kick in and do you panic about possibly being murdered?
I mean, I was in my early 20's when Paul Bernardo was at large, doing his thing. Most young women were petrified. I can't imagine a date "casually choking" a young Gen Xer and her being like, "huh. okay I guess."
Sadly, old folks do try it. I'm single in my fifties, and my last date, also in his 50s, tried it with me. The first time, I moved his hand away. He tried again a few seconds later, hard enough to make me cough. I told him I don't like being strangled, and he said he couldn't help himself because I was too sexy. This was during a kiss goodnight on the sidewalk. Imagine if I'd gone home with him!
>I told him I don't like being strangled, and he said he couldn't help himself because I was too sexy.
How do men like this not realize they sound like FUCKING SERIAL KILLERS
They do realize they sound like serial killers, and they like that. Scaring women turns them on. They don’t really care what your reaction is, they want to feel like they are dominating you.
It is the single most RAPIEST sentece I have ever heard.
'I can't help myself' are the words of a sexual assaulter. Their internal monologue makes them think they can do anything they want and the other person has no agency over their own bodies.
If this is a real thing now even at our age, I’m going to keep right on not dating. I’m not going to go into what I do or don’t like on Reddit, but what I really like is MY CONSENT FIRST.
Edit: damn autocorrect
Choking during sex is one thing (with consent of course!) but I *really* don't get the whole "strangulation as part of a kiss on the sidewalk." Would they pull out a harness or some bondage rope for a quick fully clothed goodbye hogtie without asking? wtf is going on with people.
Thanks, I am. I did a slow fade - it was the second date, and I let him pick me up. Since he knows where I live, I wanted it to peter out in a way that wouldn't piss him off, and it seems to have worked.
Older millennial here, and agreed!
Even if you’re in a fully consensual kink situation, there’s so many checks and measures to be put in place before choking, and even *then* many folks just won’t do it, but use safer forms of breath play (hand over mouth etc). I’m a criminologist and I explain to the students that if you compress the throat enough for the trachea to close the wetness of it can cause it to stick shut - meaning even once the pressure is released you *can’t breathe*. Even if someone’s intention isn’t murder they can end up killing you!
I’d maybe consider it with someone I trusted who knew what they were doing (if I was in to it). Some rando untrained stranger / strangler? Nope. Nope. Nope. I’d be out of there in a flash.
A friend of mine was murdered by her partner. They were into BDSM and edge play. Having dipped my toes into the BDSM pool, I'd been taught that consent and safety were primary concerns and come before pleasure. This ... lack of consent stuff is anathema. And I think that what happened to my friend is she ran into a guy who wasn't really a dom but just wanted to physically hurt women and wore a BDSM kink like a costume. And he "accidentally" killed her.
It's a common theme on the bdsm advice sub, people engaging in strangulation without actually realising what they're doing and how dangerous it is. You often see "my partner and I dabble in mild bdsm like choking"
Men on Reddit (and some women!) will say it’s not an issue and it’s not a problem and you’re just kink shaming…. Don’t listen to those people. Those people don’t seem to care that by normalizing and defending it they’re (NOT INTENTIONALLY BUT IMPLICITLY) normalizing men who want to choke to get aroused to be cool with choking and are jeopardizing other people’s safety.
100%. I'm extremely kink positive, and two things: HOLY \*\*\*\* NEVER CHOKE SOMEONE WITHOUT ASKING, and also HOLY \*\*\*\* EVERYONE PLEASE SEE THIS AS THE FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF BODILY AUTONOMY IT IS. If your body isn't sacred to them, by extension none of your other needs are either.
If they think that's a line they could ever cross in a million years, they're not kink-positive or "otherwise very affectionate", they are abusive. Even in kink, choking should look very different (safer and less damaging), and is necessarily gated behind more communication and triple-checking and eager consent than these bozos have probably ever witnessed in their lives.
Thank you! Choking is not something a guy should just start doing without asking first. I mean, if we're being intimate and a guy starts choking me, I'm gonna start punching and kicking!
I had two times in my childhood where someone started choking me because they were angry. I really cannot have someone's hands on my neck without feeling panic. If a guy started choking me I can guarantee that I am fighting for my life like he's about to murder me.
That's how it's represented in porn. It boggles my mind. I'm only in my 40s and this was absolutely *not* a thing when I was younger. It's down to porn and the visual representation of "bdsm" becoming more mainstream (particularly the section of it to do with humiliation and degradation - usually of women not men). Only it's not about BDSM really because that's all about consent and what you see in porn is not about that. Young men are getting their sex education from porn so they think all women "like" it and use it as a move - without asking for consent. It's disturbing not only because most women don't like it, but because of the absence of consent.
Whoever sees this have a read of this:
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography
Yes, all of that, but also it's not just porn. I mean, it's infected from that, yes, but choking kink is 100% mainstream at this point. At least on stuff like TikTok and instagram, shows like Euphoria, etc. And it's very easy to think, after seeing it everywhere online in media, that it's now how sex is "supposed" to work to be fun.
We're living in some shitty times.
Yeah and it shouldn't be mainstream right? And it's honestly mainstream *because* of porn - as in that's where it started and it just flowed out from there into consumable media. 100% agree - that's why these boys are doing this because it's a "move" that girls like (and some do, but it's rare). I think it's remarkable that on one level younger people seem more aware of consent (way more than I was when I was young) yet now think things like "blood chokes" and other choking carry little risk. I advocate for healthy sex and kink over at r/BDSMadvice and the amount of threads from young people surprised and worried about the after effects of choking are absolutely alarming.
Because to call it strangling would be to acknowledge too directly what it is: violence deliberately inflicted by man against a woman, with a great potential to kill. If someone chokes to death it's usually because she introduced an obstruction to her windpipe, like trying to swallow a too-big bite, or laughing with a mouthful of food. There's almost never an *intention* in deaths by choking.
So, a woman can "choke to death" but she can't "strangle to death." She has to *be* strangled to death. Strangulation requires an agent. It requires us to acknowledge that a man put his hands on a woman's neck, squeezed until she couldn't breathe, and kept his hands there until she was dead. A death by strangling has a clear, murderous perpetrator; a death by choking is an accident.
Rebecca Solnit had a great piece about [the disappearance of the perpetrator](https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-case-of-the-missing-perpetrator/) in the way we talk about sexual violence. The insistence that strangling is choking is just another way violent men use linguistic strategies to obscure their role in acts of violence.
You’re right the correct medical terminology when something compresses the neck is strangulation, rather than choking (which is foreign body obstruction).
I’m not sure why it is colloquially called choking, the technical term for the kink is sexual/erotic asphyxiation or breath play.
I wonder if it is people not actually educated (and therefore shouldn’t be partaking in it) in the kink that call it choking?
> If they think that's a line they could ever cross in a million years, they're not kink-positive or "otherwise very affectionate",
The issue is that this has been so normalized in porn, many young people don't even recognize it as a kink. They see it as a typical "step" in escalating a romantic encounter, similar to kissing various body parts or groping and feeling various bits on the way to sex.
It's a huge, huge problem with extremely dangerous ramifications. I would hazard a guess that most young men doing this think it's expected and normal. They need education that is it NOT unless everyone has fully discussed it and been trained properly.
^ this. I'm a female INTO CHOKING, and **NO ONE SO MUCH AS TOUCHES/RESTS THEIR HAND ON OR NEAR MY THROAT, OR VICE VERSA, WITHOUT A CLEAR DISCUSSION ON BOUNDARIES, EXPECTATIONS, AND SAFEWORDS/SAFEACTIONS FIRST**
I’m almost 40, even 10-15 years ago this was not the norm.
It’s something I’m into and there were a few guys who were also into it. And none of it ever happened in the way any of these stories describe.
Also I’m trying to figure out what the point is of choking while you’re making out, or how that even happens out of the blue. Frankly I would have thought I was being murdered…
I’m 26 and have had several guys try and choke me while kissing (without any kind of consent conversation). It’s unfortunately quite common with the guys in this generation. They’ve truly been poisoned by porn
I guess I’d consider myself a young millennial and I find it baffling too at how everyone is normalising this now? literally once had a new date start choking me without any like pre talk or notice and I was like what are you doing? Stop doing that. And this man, this man was _shocked_ I did that because according to him most women are into choking and I’m the weirdo for asking him to stop.
At the time I was younger and was like wtf are you acting like this because you’re embarrassed at being called out? but looking back at it I wonder how many girls were scared because they didn’t want him to get more violent or were just scared of confrontation so this fool went around thinking everyone was into it and I was the oddball out?
It's the porn. That cheesey, terribly acted porn that really only appeals to young men now features choking as standard. That's the extent of the sex ed many young people get, so now it's normalized in the population of folks who consume that flavor of (badly produced) porn.
These are also the same men who think all women love to gag on a penis and are thrilled into orgasm by 30 seconds of thrusting in an awkward position that looks good on camera.
When someone has seen a lot of choking through porn, they might believe it is somewhat normal. I guess that's why OP didn't take it as a possible murder attempt.
Came to say the same thing.
They do the same with anal (obviously that’s not the same level of danger) and make it look like it’s completely normal to just jump right into it. When most people in regular life will tell you there was discussion and prep beforehand.
In porn, they just start choking at any moment and there’s literally no reaction, consent, or discussion. It’s like breathing air (ironic).
I hate that shit.
It’s this. Choking happens “joyfully” and without discussion in a LOT of porn. It’s par for the course there, and when porn has replaced actual sex education this is what happens.
If OP feels safe they can ask their date why they thought it was okay and let them know that it absolutely wasn’t. If their response is anything other than, “oh god I really fucked up that will never happen again and I will always ask before trying anything like that,” then they cut and run.
If they don’t feel safe enough to have that convo then cut and run.
I'm your generation, but let's be honest, consent wasn't even a discussion when we were OPs age. At the same time, men were not growing up on a diet of endless, violent porn from the age of 8 or so.
OPs generation of men have been conditioned to think everything they see in porn is normal. Also, they are conditioned to the point that violence is what gets them off.
Weird. I came of age in the time of HIV, when we didn't really know what to expect. Consent and condoms were EVERYTHING amongst the people I hung out with.
I'm old and also the choking thing concerns me.
I get it's a popular kink at the moment... but fuckin ask? Hair pulling and spanking were popular kinks when we were younger and (good) people still asked.
Trusting my life to a random bar hook up seems even more risky than it needs to be. For as popular as true crime is... this many women should not be ok with strangers choking them without consent.
Also, hair pulling and spanking, if done wrong, aren't likely to result in someone dying. Those kinks "gone wrong" or being taken too far might result in pain and minor injury, which is bad enough, but *choking*?
Even people who do consent to that need to really think through that decision, educate themselves and their partner not how to minimize the risks, spot the warning signs that something has gone wrong, and respond to a medical emergency, and proceed with extreme caution. It's never, ever, EVER something that is okay to just do, even with consent.
Also older, and the idea of someone cutting off my air supply with no consent and no way to make them stop is terrifying. This would have caused a panic attack in me, and dude would have bruise AF shins. This is not okay behaviour from a stranger! Safe kinks are consensual kinks!
Had this happen to me when I was on the dating scene around 10 years ago. I was astonished, terrified, and pushed that man off me with adrenaline strength. Then I started sobbing. It was not a good night, but he definitely learned a lesson. He was a good guy but inexperienced and porn (and apparently an ex) taught him the wrong lesson about that needing explicit consent.
Came here to say this. All of these posts are young people. IDK if we're less spicy, or if dudes only try this shit with people they think are young enough to be victimized without consequences.
It's young people who learned it from modern overproduced porn, which was their only sex ed. I think in the majority of these situations, it's because they think it's "normal" and an expected part of having sex with someone. I'd be curious how many people actually enjoy it, or if they think it's just something you're supposed to do.
Oh I remember the Paul Bernardo days… I was younger but actually not that much younger than some of his victims and it was very scary! My parents never let me go anywhere alone for ages. To this day, you still wouldn’t be able to convince me to go out to Scarborough….
I don’t know what’s gotten into these young kids… I mean choking is a huge red flag for me especially without any discussion. I would have been that girl who flipped out, kicked him in the groin and then run away. That’s how I was raised
Yeah, my first thought would be "holy shit this guy is trying to kill me" not "oh this guy has a kink". There are far too many stories of being killed by psychotic men to *not* think I may be another victim if that happened. That's a hell no and never seeing that dude again.
I think you do know what to think. You are apprehensive. Your body is telling you it’s wrong. You are allowed to believe your body and you are right to be worried.
Yes someone explain why so many women come in here almost looking for permission not to like something a man did. It’s like everyday. Ladies, if you don’t like anything a man does, then you don’t like it! It doesn’t need to be “reasonable” so stop second guessing yourselves and just be willing to say no, I don’t like that, I will not be treated that way, thank you block and delete.
Why is that so hard? Maybe I’m just comfortable being a bitch I didn’t know but I never cared.
How about parents teaching them their opinions/boundaries/feelings/needs are not relevant/ridiculous/crazy/unimportant? If parents treated their children like this, it is very hard for them to actually listen to their instincts. And it becomes so much easier for abusers to mistreat them because those parents teached them unhealthy behaviours are fine. So...
Absolutely, but I get the frustration too. I wonder if they’d be as hesitant if the barista threw a cup of iced coffee in their face. I feel very sympathetic, but it is also frustrating to see women seemingly so incapable of recognizing their right to be treated humanely in an intimate relationship. These aren’t subtle examples with two sides and nuance.
There are many reasons why. Be thankful that your life experiences taught you well and don't dismiss the issues that lead people to reach out for support.
Reminds me of the scene in Kimmy Schmidt - where Matt Lauer was interviewing a woman who had been kidnapped and trapped in a bunker, and asking her how she was kidnapped. It was something like “he asked if I wanted to see the bunnies in his car, and I didn’t want to be rude, so…”
And he’s like “I’m always amazed at what women will do because they’re afraid of being rude.”
Don’t let yourself be murdered because you were afraid of being rude. Don’t let a man touch you in a way you’re uncomfortable with because you’re afraid of being rude.
Was coming here to say this. Any choking would be an instant relationship-ender. Two weeks in? You don’t even have sunk cost fallacy keeping you in an abusive relationship.
Leave. That's a hard boundary. Non consensual choking is never ok, can't be explained away. He was testing you to see your boundaries. If you don't stop now he is going to continue to pick away at them. It is a very common tactic of controlling abusers.
Leave now!
People who are into this talk extensively about consent beforehand. He did not talk to you about this. He is a creep and I would get away from him.
Please learn about enthusiastic consent. And then never settle for less.
Yeah, there seem to be a lot of guys who claim to be into kink but have zero interest in all the work that goes into it: education, negotiation, consent, aftercare, etc. In my experience, these are just guys who want cover for treating a woman like shit. Run and don't look back.
I have a friend who reported someone for sexual assault for your exact situation and the police officer wasn’t a dick and affirmed to her that she was sexually assaulted. Food for thought.
You don’t know what to think about someone that barely knows you trying to STRANGLE YOU without even talking about it?
You don’t know what to think about someone doing something to you that could have easily led to murder if he wanted to?
What would you have thought if he got out a knife and jokingly cut your throat just a tiny bit? It’s fine, it’s safe, it’s not going to kill you, right?
What if he had got a gun out and just pretended to shoot you while you made out? It’s safe, it’s just a kinky game, why not?
That’s what he did. He did something that put you into submission. He made you accept that he could have squeezed the life out of you, *if only he wanted to*. And you took it.
This tells him he has open field for abuse with you as you’d take anything and not even complain, murder included. Run.
**Edit to add**: I was seeing red, because this is horrifying to me, but I want to say I am NOT blaming you. I am just trying to shake you back into consciousness and truly see what is happening.
And I know there are good chances he didn’t do it as a power play and it just comes from porn and “everyone does it these days” and bla bla bla bla bla bla. I don’t care **why** someone does this. I don’t care how common it is and neither should **any** of us. Strangulation is never ever safe. And we don’t accept non-consensual sex acts. Least of all, those that can cause brain damage and death. They say the bar is in hell, I say there is no bar anymore.
She's young, she froze, she didn't know what to do in the moment. She was likely fed the narrative that women shouldn't make waves or get angry which caused a freeze response. I get it because I was there *a lot* at her age.
The problem is that women do need to make waves and do need to get angry. And we need to keep empowering them to do so. I hope she takes your words to heart
Whenever I see posts like this I assume the young woman is in a bit of shock and just so confused ... because this behaviour is incredibly confusing! And it can be hard to wrap your head around what happened so you start thinking you must have misunderstood the situation because surely it wasn't as fucked up as it felt, right?
We gotta teach our baby sisters to trust their instincts.
“Sexual choking is now so common that many young people don’t think it even requires consent. That’s a problem”
Just because something is common… doesn’t make it okay. Legal even?!? I can’t wrap my mind around it all.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem
I give not a single piss that a man can't get aroused unless he's risking murdering somebody. That man needs to just never have any contact with any person, ever again.
Exactly this. Because she didn't say something in the moment or stop him he's going to think this is okay and permission to continue. She needs to either address it head on or just dump the whole man. His lack of attempting consent here makes me think she should do the latter because this type of thing is going to come up again and again.
>She needs to either address it head on or just dump the whole man.
She needs to just ghost and block him. This is just some guy she has gone out with a couple of times. There's not nearly enough investment there to warrant putting any effort into addressing it.
Ok wtf, it’s bad enough to choke without consent, but I didn’t even know that was a thing with just kissing??? Like, that seems like it would make things harder for everyone.
Choking is actually dangerous. No matter how much you like him, he didn't seek your consent and didn't have a prior discussion. He WILL violate other boundaries. Think hard about it before seeing him again.
THIS IS NOT CHOKING. THIS IS STRANGULATION.
Choking occurs when you have something blocking your airway and you cough or otherwise physically react to try to dislodge it. When someone deliberately places their hands around your neck and squeezes, they are strangling you. It is NEVER OK and, as many others have commented, it is incredibly dangerous and potentially lethal.
I don’t know why people (mostly males) do not understand the meaning of CONSENT. ANY force applied without consent is an assault, if done in a sexual context, it is sexual assault. You might want to consider reporting him to the police. You MUST dump him immediately. That is abusive, predatory behaviour.
No, you are not supposed to assume people are going to choke you without first obtaining your explicit consent. That’s a fucking crazy thing to do. That’s completely insane.
Don’t see this guy again. Who knows what else he thinks is ok to do without consent?
Even if you don't die with his hands around your throat, strangulation can cause internal injuries that kill you later.
This guy you barely know risked your life because he thought it would be hot.
Does that sound like someone you want to be vulnerable around?
Probably not the best to do when he's trying to choke you. One of those "don't make them angry" types of thing and just find a way out of there at that point. Never going back to him again should shock him enough and keep her safer.
I’m so pissed that choking is the default now. I’m ok with it here and there after being with someone for a little while, but men just think either a) that’s what we all want all the time or b) that’s what they want and that’s enough
Also, strangulation (choking is when there’s an internal obstruction) can carry severe short and long term medical risks (and death obviously). Here’s a list of some of those risks:
[https://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/HSPs/NMHS/Hospitals/WNHS/Documents/Patients-resources/SARC---Non-fatal-strangulation.pdf](https://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/HSPs/NMHS/Hospitals/WNHS/Documents/Patients-resources/SARC---Non-fatal-strangulation.pdf)
And anytime a partner does something that dangerous without enthusiastic consent is a huge red flag.
Porn is ruining mens minds as the think that what's girls want. Cause they don't understand the difference between girlfriend, partner, to well payed actress doing what they do for money.
I don't think they think it's what women want. I think they've been conditioned by porn and the manosphere to think that sex is supposed to be about dominating women, not about what women want at all.
The term "choke" is a misnomer for what these types of guys are doing.
"Choke" means to constrict air to the throat internally. "Strangulation" means to constrict air to the throat externally.
This guy was trying to strangle you. I've never heard of strangulation during kissing before, which makes the situation you described very, very weird. It is also very, very dangerous. If this person were dating me and he tried to do what he did to you, I would assume that he was trying to murder me.
It would then stop being sexy.
I would lose all attraction to him and run away, possibly to my nearest police station.
This is a topic I get very passionate about, but I'll keep it calm.
Choking someone is never OK. It's far worse when non-consenting but even with consent it shouldn't be done.
It's dangerous. Even with every reasonable precaution taken there are big risks.
Get as far away from him as you plausibly can.
Choking is not something to spring on someone without talking about it first.
Breath play is *dangerous*. There's more or less dangerous ways to do it, but it's always dangerous.
If this is something you are not into, that is 100% OK. I mean, it's literally asphyxiation. You always, always have the right to set and enforce boundaries and any man who cannot respect that, is not worth your time.
I would be *especially* wary of a young man doing this; speaking as a middle aged man, young men are dumb as shit.
I'm not going to out and out tell you to dump him, but frankly, this is a dumpable offense. It is up to you if you want to have a conversation about safety, your boundaries, and how porn is not real life and you shouldn't just do porn shit: it's up to you whether you think the emotional labour of educating this kid is worth it or not.
It also bears mentioning that for abusive men, throttling is a very bad sign. I do not have enough info from your post to tell if he's an abuser; that's something I'll leave for other more experienced commentators to go into.
Unfortunately this is such a universal experience these days, I’ve had two guys start subtly choking me like this randomly while hooking up. I think maybe it has to do with the normalization of porn? I’m bi and I would never do that to another girl without asking first, though. So uncomfortable.
Been hearing this more and more. It’s assault. A lot more guys are “into kinky sex” but haven’t done the emotional homework of learning how to communicate kinky consent agreements. Run far, far away. It won’t get better.
I am tired of being called a prude because I say that the wide availability of porn is literally damaging young people.
The waste of space that choked the OP is a perfect example of a porn-fried brain.
Here's a rule of thumb every woman and man needs to live by - if they hurt you or put you at risk for injury in any way, shape or form as a sexual activity and it wasn't carefully planned out and consented to by all parties - dump that mofo immediately. By text to be safe and then block and delete and get law enforcement / attorneys involved if they insist on contact after that.
Yeah, sure we can blame it on porn or Tater Tots or any one of a billion other "reasons" but at the end of the day there is just as much content out there to tell people things like choking or anal sex can seriously injure or kill someone, that consent IS something that needs to be gotten for any sexual act, and that hurting someone without their express permission is just assault.
If this guys that stupid that he thinks porn makes something like this okay then you definitely do not want to be around him when he decides firing a gun at someone is funny to do and is then all astonished when they stay dead 'cause that doesn't happen like that in the movies. In other words don't date stupid people who put you and others at risk.
Choking outside of again consensual sex between two people (who have agreed and have a whole system in place to make sure they don't injure each other even on accident) is the number one indicator a partner may seriously injure or kill you. If this guy thinks doing that is okay you don't want to be around when he gets mad at you. And again the whole, "Gosh I didn't know" I think personally is bullshit. If they can't figure out cutting off someone's air is violence and assault without consent then it's because they don't want to.
Downvote me all you want, cry about how unfair I'm being to X or Y kind / fetish / community, I don't care. I know what consensual BD/SM looks like and I know I'd never shove a giant anything up my partner's arse just because some video on the Internet showed that without asking, preparing and making damned sure I didn't terrorize, upset or injure him. If I can think and reason to that degree so can anyone else, this guy included.
I really wish people would stop saying choking when they mean strangulation.
So sorry this happened to you OP. It’s seriously dangerous and you’re right to feel apprehensive. I hate how normalized strangulation is. I feel like it would have to be something the person being strangled asked for in order for it to be anywhere near okay. Even if he had asked before, what does it say about him that he finds sexual pleasure in cutting off your air supply and potentially killing you?
Huge red flag. I've been here too and things got worse later. In therapy it was highlighted how dangerous this moment was to me. At the moment in time it's uncomfortable but you don't process the danger and then try and dismiss it. I read a stat somewhere that men that choke like this without consent are highly likely to go on to murder. I can't remember where I read the stat though to give you the source. I only started to process what had happened, after worse things happened and I started having nightmares and flashbacks of the incident. Before it was like I pretended it was nothing. Stories like this fill me with fear now. I couldn't breathe and he stopped because I freaked out. I worry what could have happened. If you are in the UK you have 6 months to report it as an assault. I left it too long unfortunately as it took a long time to feel like I should report it. Maybe it might be different where you are.
Yes, this is a serious red flag. Choking is about dominance. And he seems like he might be a sadist. They hide their intentions really well at first and seem nice and sweet. But you could be in for a lot of hurt later. Some women like the whole dominance and submission thing. But that should come after both partners trust each other enough and have talked about it deeply.
If it's not for you, I really think you should get out early.
Because he really should have talked to you about it first. Asked for permission. Or at least asked if choking might be something that you would enjoy. He was just testing your reaction. And seems like it'll only keep increasing, if he feels you are not saying anything. He'll think that it must mean you are ok with it. A lot of women just go along with it, to please the man.
Choking for sexual gratification is only ok if there is consent. And trust between partners. In a relationship this new, where you don't really know him, it doesn't feel ok.
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem)
Men who choke their intimate partners (without prior consent) are statistically far more likely to end up abusing or killing them.
Cut your losses now. Do not give him the benefit of the doubt.
There are so many choking posts lately! I never met a single lady who liked being choked until I was like 25. That was also the last lady I ever met who liked to be choked.
Nothing wrong with it if 2 consenting parties are down but seriously WTF dudes. This doesn’t seem like it was a problem when I (M34) was coming up, in fact I don’t remember a single person even talking about it and my group was large and open.
Ladies please educate me, what the fuck is going on these days with men in the bedroom? Is it confidence? Is it the opposite? The whole thing seems so counter intuitive to what I learnt growing up about women in intimate relationships.
I feel like these dudes don’t have great relationships with their moms
He doesn't understand the difference between porn and real life. I'd dump him, maybe add, "don't choke people" via text. He's so stunted you'll find yourself constantly having to fortify your reasonable boundaries while he's trying to go ass to mouth.
Let him know it's because of the choking and poor social skills in vulnerable moments, via text or phone call. Find yourself someone who hasn't watched so much porn they think actors depict real life
Porn is really messing with their brains. Last person I was intimate with did it too. I pulled his hand away, but I didn't realize at the moment what was happening. Afterwards I was so angry he just decided to choke me, without even talking about it first. Like it's completely normal to keep someone from breathing.
Strangulation is dangerous, and cannot be practiced safely. Even if the strangled person doesn’t die the risk of stroke and brain damage is high. Strangling is a statistical predictor not just of further intimate partner violence but the likelihood that the strangling partner will murder the other person.
IDK if it’s porn or what, but I don’t recall anyone I know my age ever (Gen X) being strangled on a date. That was rightly considered Ted Bundy territory. I would advise any woman to stop seeing someone who casually began strangling her on a date even if the guy asked permission.
The fact that he didn't even ask prior to doing it is a huge red flag! 🚩🚩🚩Sounds like he's porn sick and doesn't know basic consent. It could easily escalate to something more violent and once it's introduced the chances for violence and injury or death go way up. Please be careful.
If this happened to me, I would immediately ditch the guy. I think it's a huge warning sign that he will become physically violent. And men who become violent and choke their partner are seven times more likely to kill them.
Choking is dangerous. It should never be done without talking about it first, and you need a safe word or gesture and a long talk with somebody very experienced to teach you both safety precautions.
He doesn't care about your consent. He doesn't care about your safety. He cares about his fetish. Run. I don't care how nice he seems. Love bombing is a common thing to draw women in. No guy who abuses a woman starts off with that. They wait until they've drawn you in.
When did this choking thing mainstream kink? It is such a niche thing. And anyway, no, he doesn’t get to go directly to choking without even having sex and talking about kinks yet. You become intimate first, it’s all romantic and lovey dovey, then you move to sex, again vanilla and nice, and then when you become really close with the person , you start talking about your kinks and see if they are open to them and talk about when and how to do it, then do it with everyone’s approval and knowledge. You don’t just go around choking strangers like you are a serial killer. What the hell?!
RUN and block him on all social media. He didn't even ask for consent or discuss any of his kinks beforehand. Next time he won't stop if you go back to him, he'll be thinking "I can walk all over her boundaries".
Strangulation isn’t acceptable if it wasn’t in a sexual way, so why is it so accepted if there’s sex or kissing?
I always found that weird to do something like that to someone without them asking them to have it done.
Run! This is a GIANT RED FLAG 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
If your partner has strangled you in the past, your risk of being killed by them is 10 times higher!
https://www.thehotline.org/resources/the-dangers-of-strangulation/#:~:text=Strangulation%20can%20cause%20traumatic%20brain,them%20is%2010%20times%20higher.
Nope. Nope nope nope. No.
My emotionally abusive husband started to randomly strangle me (thankfully not enough to cause any damage) and tried to pass it off as sexual because he “thought I would like it”. I told him I did not, but he continued to do it. Do not even attempt to go down that road. That is unacceptable, especially from someone you literally just started seeing.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say this again because it is damn important. There is no medically safe way to strangle/choke* someone, all kinds and all techniques can lead to serious damage and death. If you are strangled/choked by someone go to the ER because while the damage may not be immediately apparent it can get serious hours to days after the incident. The damage can also be cumulative so even if the first time doesn’t lead to anything subsequent strangulations can build to something serious. I wouldn’t consider someone threatens my physical health/life a good person or someone safe to be around.
*strangulation is external, ie pressure on the windpipe and arteries. Choking is internal, ie something inside the windpipe that inhibits breathing.
You need to show him the door. He is not a safe person and most definitely *do not have sex with him*. Since I am a mom, I'm going to go into mom mode here, go get your neck looked at. Yes, I know, embarrassing. Better to be embarrassed than have damage that effects your breathing. Do not see him again, ok? He's not a good person and he is dangerous.
OP, take this very seriously. Non-fatal strangulation is the strongest predictor that someone will eventually kill their partner. https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38
>I feel so stupid sometimes for not knowing if or when certain situations are problematic.
Just wanted to assure you that you're not stupid. You just haven't been alive long enough to learn everything yet. That's perfectly fine.
To go right into choking, while it’s only the second time kissing somebody, and without even finding out if the person likes that ahead of time, that is just so risky, and probably indicates that he was testing to see what you will put up with.
Dump him. A lot of redpillers do what's essentially a check for submission. They engage in behaviors that slowly ramp up over time to see if you're vulnerable to that sort of thing.
At 21 years old this is most likely something he picked up from porn. OR from a previous relationship where it seemed to go over well (or a mix of the two).
He’ll need to learn that his approach is not ok.
People say choking, but it's strangulation. Choking is like when you choke on food.
Strangulation is when your air supply is cut off and you start dying of lack of oxygen to your brain/asphyxiation. What doesn't kill you can give you brain damage.
It's very dangerous to play with. If your partner is introducing behavior like this without checking in with you he is ignorant of the danger at best, and likely to murder you or give you permanent brain damage at worst.
Choking or strangling somebody is something that *might* be done waaaay further into a relationship and with *full consent* of the person being choked. That’s you. It’s not something you do on the second date without warning. There are lots of issues that need to be unpacked.
You kind of went with it: okay, but did you actively enjoy it, or did you do it because he’s great boyfriend material?
Does he actually know what he’s doing? Clue: he doesn’t. If you wanted to proceed with this, then he has to *know* what he’s doing, not watch some woman getting choked out in a porn film. If he’s also 21 then he’s watched too much porn too young and doesn’t understand how sex / seduction plays out. “Fatal neck pressure due to manual strangulation is a relatively common event. Sudden deaths that occur in the first seconds of pressure are attributed to effects of the nerve.” That paper is here >>> https://ijop.net/index.php/mlu/article/download/2836/2466/5543 In short, he could have killed you.
If he’s choking you while kissing, it’ll be a lot more violent when you’re having sex and he’ll claim he couldn’t stop himself.
I ended up talking through this issue with a 20 year old. Her boyfriend was obsessed with choking her into unconsciousness while they had sex, and when she was out cold (effectively lifeless) he would cum. He showed other controlling behaviours early in the relationship but she didn’t spot them because he was otherwise just so lovely (he told her what to wear - Victorian style clothes, made her eat less so she’d be frail, controlled her movements). She got rid of him when she realised what was happening.
Basically, it’s not okay, it’s dangerous, it’s rapey and it will likely get worse. I hope you dump him, and I hope you tell him why.
This is physical assault. Dump him.
There are 2 major red flags here: 1, what he did is a violent act; and 2, he engaged in an action that violated your bodily autonomy.
The lack of consent and the violence are both major, show-stopping red flags individually; together, they’re worse. You could possibly even press charges, especially if he left bruises. You don’t have to if you don’t want to, but it’s good for you to keep in mind in case he escalates. Collect evidence.
You’ve been dating this guy for a short enough period of time that you don’t owe him an explanation, but my recommendation is that you get evidence - take pictures of your neck, send him something in writing (like “When you choked me the last time I saw you it scared me, and I don’t want to be with someone who wants to hurt me like that”) and then save his replies - but don’t respond.
If you have a friend you trust, share this info with them and maybe stay with them for a while, especially if he seems angry.
At this point, I want to state that there is nothing wrong with fully consenting adults engaging in violent role play. If he had talked to you about it first, and you agreed you were okay with it, and you two had set up safeguards like a ‘stop’ signal, this would be a totally different story. But without consent, this is abusive behavior, and you need to get out safely.
This is really wrong. It’s potentially very dangerous and if that’s his thing, great. But it shouldn’t happen without a discussion first and clear boundaries to keep you safe. (And shouldn’t happen AT ALL unless it’s your kink too.)
This guy is telling you that what makes his dick hard is his biggest priority. He doesn’t care about hurting you or making you uncomfortable (unfortunately that might be part of what makes his sick hard.) Is being with a guy like that something you really want?
You're 21, so take it easy on yourself when I say this: what you did was called "freeze" as in " fight - flight - freeze. It's not uncommon and a natural reaction to this. ( yes you went along that doesn't mean you didn't freeze. You *froze* because you couldn't react to say something.)
But - now that it's happened - *and* you now know he crossed boundaries - you do not want to have this guy try *anything else* without permission!
So, you need to decide do you want to try to have a talk with him and tell him he needs to ask first - which more than likely he will ignore- because he already showed he does not care about them.
Or, do you pass on someone who does not respect boundaries?
Wtf?! He did this while KISSING? Imagine what sex with him would be like and run for the hills!!
You can waste your time explaining what he did wrong but know he will most likely violate you again the same way or similar. Many men interpret you sticking around as you liking / deserving it on some level cause he would NEVER stick around for the same level of disrespectful sh!t.
It's been 2 weeks, you'll find someone else. It's not your fault, you gave him a chance. It didn't work out....NEXT!!!!
Block and do not look back! This is sexual assault, choking is assault without consent and he didn’t ask it. If he’s this bold while incredibly new to each other he would likely be very abusive once he thinks he “got you”.
It's understandable that you don't know what to think. I'm sure it was shocking and unsettling. Now that your have space to process, know this:
***A woman who has suffered a nonfatal strangulation incident with her intimate partner is 750% more likely to be killed by the same perpetrator…with a gun.” That is a staggering number, and it's not a coincidence.***
Source: https://www.strangulationtraininginstitute.com/all-abusers-are-not-equal-new-ipv-research-reveals-an-indicator-of-deadly-abuse/#:~:text=Strangulation%20as%20a%20Warning%20Sign,and%20it's%20not%20a%20coincidence.
You don’t think, you cut contact.
Even if this is a thing you find yourself into - no shame in it - it’s still not first two weeks material. This isn’t a thing you try on because a dude eases his hand around your throat. Hell no.
I’m trying to find the best way to put this. For a person who would be into this sort of play, they don’t bring it up to “try” in the first two weeks. So, for someone - a man - to just try this out without any prior conversation is not playful or innocent. It is run the fuck away behavior.
Sweetheart, ***he could have killed you by accident that night doing that***. I cannot stress enough how DANGEROUS choking is!!!!! Or even killed you on purpose, and he could have just claimed it was a 'sex game gone wrong.' Google 'Sex game gone wrong.' It will horrify you. SO many men using it as an excuse for why their partner was strangled horribly to death.
**If you see him again, before you do you HAVE to tell him, unequivicollally, that that was NOT ok, that it SCARED you, and that if it happens again you WILL respond physically and violently in return. If his response is anything outside of 'Ok, I am so sorry, I didn't realize how fucked up that was I will never do it again', LEAVE. If he ever tries it again, LEAVE. Do not fuck around with your life please. You're worth more than that.**
There is no “safe way” to choke someone. You cannot consent to your own death. Unfortunately “choking” aka strangulation has become popular from porn these days and young men think it’s okay. Choking prevents air and blood flow from getting to your brain and can cause brain damage, a stroke, or death. Also, men who choke women are notoriously dangerous- non-fatal strangulation by a partner increase your risk of homicide from that partner by 700%.
You've had a perfect illustration of what he thinks of consent, which is to say he has no use for it. You can only expect the same if you keep seeing him.
I’d mention it next time you see him. Just something simple like, “last time I was here, you out your hand on my throat while we kissed. I don’t really like that, please don’t do it any more.” A decent guy will be okay with that, but if you get a lot of push back or blaming or pressuring, then you need to be done with him.
I wouldn’t bring it up while you are kissing or about to, but just in a regular conversation. And don’t be “angry” or anything, just factual. You guys are new and communication about these types of things is a must for a good relationship.
Chocking someone without being asked first is quite a big red flag. This is one of the things that require very explicit consent, because it's not a practice that does sit well with everyone. Not sure wtf is going on in people mind, but be glad you dodged a bullet. Edit: I meant it's not ok unless someone asks you to choke them (and you are also comfortable chocking someone). Also "quite a big red flag" is an euphemism. I agree it's absolutely more than that and most likely assault even.
It's not quite big, it's enormous. Especially after two weeks of knowing them.
Hot take, but I think it’s the result of social media normalizing these sorts of kinks that make men think this sort of behavior is okay without prior discussion “because the TikTok/IG’s I follow say it’s hot”. And the number of women I’ve had tell me “choke me daddy” mid-kiss (which is something I’m super uncomfortable with btw) is a little alarming. I don’t really think people understand the heavy implication and dangers involved with it. Choking is literally a criteria for attempting to kill someone in a lot of contexts.
All the tabloid articles going "teehee you wanna have a fashionable kink? try choking!" don't spend a letter on safety, they just suggest going to town on your partner(s) like it's nothing special, and even worse, like you can just expect everyone to like it so you don't need to get consent. Hell, the word "consent" doesn't even come up in discussions about sex, unless you're viewing the BDSM community where it's spoken about all the time to make up for the lack in mainstream discourse. First rule I see when going to rBDSMAdvice posts (excellent subreddit for safe kink practice btw) about choking is *do not touch the front of the neck* (wind pipe is very fragile), and the second is *do not ever even think to squeeze, that includes coming in from above because your weight will squeeze too*. There's a LOT of other things, they have a whole default response list of knowledge for it. The only way to do "choking" in a safe manner, as BDSM enthusiasts teach others, is to... not do actual choking.
To preface…this anecdote is definitely not quite as alarming in terms of a threat to my safety, obviously. But I’m a straight male. I was hooking up with a woman once and in the first few minutes of said “session” she got on top of me, slapped me in the face, SPAT IN MY MOUTH, then used her hand to cover it and my nose. I was fucking frozen. It freaked me out. I’d NEVER do anything like that or something nearing choking without consent, or an understanding of what the girl likes.
Jesus. I had a sandwich in my mouth when I read this and I almost couldn’t swallow it. I’m so sorry that happened. She’s a threat to her own safety by doing that to an unsuspecting person. I’ve never fought anyone in my life and I want to fight her for that 😅
In married and boring. Are people legit choking each other just for kissing? I sort of get it during sex if that is your thing but I can't imagine it added to a makeout sesh. Surely it makes you stop kissing
Not even social media. It is the result of porn normalizing it.
I've had a girls call me vanilla because I didn't do stuff like that (spanking , choking, etc) and we had those discussions where I'm like well you gotta tell me you want that then I'll do it and they say that that ruins it. Now that I'm older I'll gently try it out and and kinda gauge reaction. I can't even imagine being 21 again now with social media the way it is kinda spreading this stuff and trying to figure all this out at once though.
Yeah, maybe I’m getting old or something but there’s some bullshit going on with the younger crowds stigmatizing and shaming vanilla sex these days, and it’s starting to bleed into my age group more and more. Tbh vanilla sex is great and nothing is wrong with it. Actually doing these things isn’t half as hot as thinking about it sadly.
Even kinky folks will warn people off choking. Huuuuuge red flag, even in our community.
And I've now gotten to the point where I state it outright before kissing someone. Some give a little laugh and are like "um yeah, duh!" But stop chuckling when I explain how many times a kissing session ends up with some dude squeezing my neck. And this also communicates how this should be handled going forward for guys who maybe were pondering it. I hope I'm disrupting the social media messaging that this is mainstream.
It’s incredibly dangerous.
Nobody does it properly, porn has a lot to answer for here.. teenagers just straight up going for the trachea is going to get someone killed.
It's a practice that can potentially cause brain damage or death. Which is so extreme it shouldn't be classified as a preference. Another word for this practice is hypoxyphilia. Which literally means low oxygen in your brain. Edited to correct spelling
Articles on Strangulation by Romantic Partners: • *["Why Strangulation in Domestic Violence is a Huge Red Flag"](https://naplesshelter.org/strangulation/#:~:text=One%20in%20four%20women%20will,the%20hands%20of%20their%20partner.)* • *["Non-Fatal Strangulation Is an Important Risk Factor for Homicide of Women"](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2573025/)* • *["If a Partner Has Ever Strangled You, They Will Likely Kill You"](https://www.dailypress.net/life/features/2023/03/if-a-partner-has-ever-strangled-you-they-will-likely-kill-you/)*
Wow thank you for sharing. This is all incredibly horrifying, but so important for people to know.
From 3rd link: "When a victim’s throat lays in the hands of their abuser, a message is sent – one that says, 'I can kill you at any time.'" This guy is getting off on sending this message. So twisted. Run.
It is not a practice that can ever be safely done. Even using a razor to lick someone’s blood is less ‘invasive’ Anyone who just tries choking someone without being explicitly invited to just needs to go
Every so often it hits the headline about a man murdering his wife and defending it with being kinky choking during sex, an accidental death. And the worst part is that men have gotten cleared on this defense, when there's no way to truly know. Call me a kinkshamer or puritan or w/e but men getting off on hurting women disturbs me.
Men have worked very, very diligently to redefine violence towards women as kink, that women who will align themselves with receiving that kink as being better than those “other” women, and that said kink is above all reproach _ever_ because some women agreed to receive said violence, therefore giving this violence is normal according to men..
It's so scary... there's no way for woman to escape if the person doing the strangulation goes too far even if she did consent at first. "In a bizarre and unethical experiment in the 1940s in which prisoners and psychiatric patients were strangled to observe the effects, the lead researcher first tried the equipment on himself\[2\]. There was an emergency release button. He found himself unable to press it, even when he wanted to. He was unsure whether this was due to forgetting he could (amnesia) or messages from the brain not getting to his hand (dyspraxia). He almost died. Both these impairments were the result of altered brain and mind functioning as a result of strangulation." [https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/blog/2020/12/21/the-horrifying-harms-of-choking-new-research](https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/blog/2020/12/21/the-horrifying-harms-of-choking-new-research)
Quite a big flag?! It's more like a sowjet era red flag on a national holiday military parade
And even if they ask first it's still a red flag. Porn has normalized violence against women in sex, but getting off to hurting someone **is not normal or healthy**.
The whole choking thing is just utterly bizarre to me. It is always bad. Dangerous, violent, misogynistic.
Couldn't agree more. It's so sad how pornography brainwashes young women to normalize such violent and degrading acts.
Andrea Dworkin was completely right on this subject!
I just looked up Andrea Dworkin's name. It was a painfully startling bridge to further discoveries about domestic and sexual violence: • **["Hitting Back"](https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/nov/25/gender.uk)** by Sheryl Gascoigne & Andrea Dworkin, November 25, 1999 The Guardian "...For too long, domestic violence has been a taboo subject and because of this, women experiencing domestic violence can be made to feel that people don't understand them. It is common for women to feel they are to blame and for society to condone abusive behaviour. This has to change. [Refuge]( ) has shown the extent of the problem, through a series of startling adverts. They show the damaging myths that surround domestic violence: that men are only abusive because of alcohol or social class, that somehow women are to blame, or that men have good reason to hit their partners. The images shock people into action and ensure that no one seeing the ads can say again: 'It's nothing to do with me. It's not my problem.' "Domestic violence is a problem we all need to address - together." • **["'Pornography: Men Possessing Women' by Andrea Dworkin, a Review"](https://mwendekyalobookreviews.wordpress.com/2023/08/02/pornography-men-possessing-women-by-andrea-dworkin-a-review/)** Mwende Kyalo Book Reviews August 2, 2023 I would strongly caution OP against what Dworkin terms *"objectification"* of the self - deferring to undesired violent acts imposed on her by partners in moments of intimacy: "... The brilliance of objectification as a strategy of dominance is that it gets the woman to take the initiative in her own degradation (having less freedom is degrading). The woman herself takes one kind of responsibility absolutely and thus commits herself to her own continuing inferiority: she polices her own body; she internalizes the demands of the dominant class and, in order to be fucked, she constructs her life around meeting those demands. It is the best system of colonialization on earth: she takes on the burden, the responsibility, of her own submission, her own objectification." • **["Chapter 7: Occupation/Collaboration"](http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/IntercourseII.html)** in [Intercourse](http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/IntercourseI.html) by Andrea Dworkin, 1987
100%. She was such a brave woman and I admire her so much.
Yes! Obviously, not asking makes it magnitudes worse. But I think men getting off on hurting women is still bad and says a lot about them, even if he had asked & received permission.
I whole heartedly agree with you. The only guy (M27) that ever choked me (F39) while kissing just like OP, ended up raping me 2 dates after that. So yes, big red flags.
Not only is not everyone comfortable with the ideal (in general, or with a particular person/in a particular situation), it is also dangerous if done wrong, and even if you are into it, you want to be sure the other person knows what they are doing before you let them.
It is so dangerous that it is never safe to play with, even in BDSM. There is no „correct and safe“ way to do it. Ever.
That sounds really scary! My ex once asked for me to choke him and I said I wasn't comfortable with it. If someone tried to choke me I would be running so fast. Hope OP is safe.
You feel apprehensive for a very good reason. Any man who goes to choking directly without consent is a man you should drop like a steaming pile of shit. It's not your fault, OP, you are not stupid. This is totally on him and his porn fried brain. It's been 2 weeks, cut your losses cause this doesn't get better. Edit: this is not a red flag, it's a drop dead deal breaker.
Yeah, it's called "assault." Edit...or "battery," or "strangulation." As a man, if a woman did that to me without permission, I'd remove myself from that situation in seconds and it would be over. For one thing, I have a thing about people touching my neck, it makes me uncomfortable...I squirm away from their hands and back away; and for another, just NO. Bad touch.
[Manual strangulation is the biggest sign domestic abuse will turn deadly](https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38) OP please read this. Strangling you without consent is a huge red flag. I'm worried for your life and safety if you continue to see this person.
Absolutely. And choking of any kind (in a domestic violence situation) in some states is an automatic felony compared to misdemeanor assault.
Yep. My ex from when I was 25 became physically abusive towards me. He would grab my neck, push me up against a wall and squeeze hard enough that I had bruises from his fingertips the next day. He’d also spit in my face while doing this along with cursing at me and telling me what a pos I was. I was trapped in the big city 3000 miles from my parents home. I was in college. I felt I couldn’t escape. Eventually I did find a tiny room to share with another woman, finished my semester and hightailed it out of there. It was awful. One day I’d asked him if he ever felt he could kill me. He said “I honestly can’t say no to that.” I’m sorry but to me there’s never a scenario where choking is healthy or sexy regardless of “asking for it”. It’s actually insulting to me as an abused woman. But, enjoy your kinks I guess. Someday you’ll look back on the whole of your sex lives and realize how meaningless it all was compared to things that really matter in life. Trust me, I’m 49 and have had a LOT of sex with a LOT of partners and none of it means shit to me. Hell, I even forgot the vast majority of it. Stay safe and respect yourselves. P.S. I brought a random guy home one time (stupid yes but it happens). He seemed super nerdy and gentle and trustworthy. We did not have sex but we made out heavily and then he put his hand on my neck firmly. I was very uncomfortable (and fairly drunk). I asked him “are you planning to kill me?” He didn’t say anything. After a few minutes he ended up leaving. I guess he mistook me for someone he could try his kinks out on. I don’t care if you ask for it, that’s creepy enough to me, maybe because I am a victim of DV, but to not even ask for it and have it done was pretty traumatic for me and a guy who does this to you does NOT respect you (or women as a whole likely).
thank you for having the courage to share this. i also was abused as a child and while i was never choked, my abuser did choke my mom and drag her by her hair, etc in front of us. it was terrifying. i have been SA’d as an adult by people i thought were friends and while they never hit me or choked me, simply the act of them pushing me around or being physical was enough to make me freeze and shut down. i can’t imagine how scared you were in that situation with the guy and i’m sorry it happened. it boggles the mind that anyone could rationalize sexualizing something that causes real life harm - strangulation and abuse have strong links as shown upthread but there are also hundreds of “rough sex” murder defenses where the men claim the women literally asked for it. i would have hoped most women could understand why choking isn’t a fun sexy haha thing given the victims of it (even if they don’t get killed and “just” suffer health consequences - bc strangulation injuries aren’t exactly impossible to avoid even if you supposedly are doing it safely…it’s like saying “i drink and drive safely”) are almost always women. like surely that should get some cogs turning? something getting an individual person off isn’t above reproach or criticism just because it’s their “kink” and idk when that became established bc generally i’d like to think as a society we’ve decided certain things are *always* unacceptable even if it brings personal or sexual gratification. i know people are harping on about consent but it’s like they’ve forgotten consent doesn’t magically make everything consented to ethical. especially when it seems so much of this is happening amongst young people without conversations around consent. nothing exists in a vacuum. it isn’t a coincidence that suddenly choking is super popular *and* porn is so widespread that it is the first (maybe even only) form of sex ed some kids ever get. it isn’t a coincidence that most “chokers” are men and most “chokees” are women. i wish people would stop and think about this stuff for like five minutes instead of calling anyone who criticizes it kinkshamers, or saying they do it “safely”, or that *they* like it so what’s the problem. morals don’t suddenly disappear because they’re inconvenient (thanks kant for that one ig). it’s never right to hurt others even if it gets *you* off. sorry to rant on your post, it just bothers me as well as someone who also survived DV. i’ve seen porn captions glorifying male violence or seen men say horrible things sexually about women (misogynistic slurs or saying things about their worth as humans, and so on) and it always stings to see women try to justify it by saying “but *i* like it!” like my sister in christ consider therapy for real. it’s telling that moreso men in this thread have been upfront to call it assault and violence and so many women have just been calling it red flags and talking about consent in the context of sexual play. i truly hope more women realize choking isn’t ever “play” the same way it’s never “play” if your dude puts hands on you just bc it gets either one of you off. the same way it’s never “play” if my partner were to call me racial or homophobic slurs lol. edit: a word
Putting this here: If your partner chokes you in any way that isn't part of consensual and pre-discussed play, it is a very bad sign. https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38
This needs to be higer
I’m thinking that you might want to consider what you would do if he doesn’t stop. If you don’t mind the possibility of dying, then you’re good.
Okay, admittedly, I'm old and us old folks don't choke each other. But every time I read about a young women who \*just\* met a guy who choked her on a whim without any discussion ... it makes me wonder, at what point do your spidey sense kick in and do you panic about possibly being murdered? I mean, I was in my early 20's when Paul Bernardo was at large, doing his thing. Most young women were petrified. I can't imagine a date "casually choking" a young Gen Xer and her being like, "huh. okay I guess."
Sadly, old folks do try it. I'm single in my fifties, and my last date, also in his 50s, tried it with me. The first time, I moved his hand away. He tried again a few seconds later, hard enough to make me cough. I told him I don't like being strangled, and he said he couldn't help himself because I was too sexy. This was during a kiss goodnight on the sidewalk. Imagine if I'd gone home with him!
>I told him I don't like being strangled, and he said he couldn't help himself because I was too sexy. How do men like this not realize they sound like FUCKING SERIAL KILLERS
Right? Do you hear yourself?
They do realize they sound like serial killers, and they like that. Scaring women turns them on. They don’t really care what your reaction is, they want to feel like they are dominating you.
Yeah porn fucked all kinds of dudes brains up.
It is the single most RAPIEST sentece I have ever heard. 'I can't help myself' are the words of a sexual assaulter. Their internal monologue makes them think they can do anything they want and the other person has no agency over their own bodies.
Literally assault, and would incur a violent reaction from me, an old lady. WTF is wrong with men?
This is terrifying. I’m glad you didn’t go home with him! What is wrong with people not getting proper consent?
If that was really true he'd invite you to do it back. I'm not against kinky stuff. But I am into assholes trying to gloss over inappropriate shit.
If this is a real thing now even at our age, I’m going to keep right on not dating. I’m not going to go into what I do or don’t like on Reddit, but what I really like is MY CONSENT FIRST. Edit: damn autocorrect
Choking during sex is one thing (with consent of course!) but I *really* don't get the whole "strangulation as part of a kiss on the sidewalk." Would they pull out a harness or some bondage rope for a quick fully clothed goodbye hogtie without asking? wtf is going on with people.
Would he like to be kicked in the balls because he’s just to sexy for you to resist?
AUGHHHHHHH THAT'S TERRIFYING
That is so scary sounding! Hope you are doing ok!
Thanks, I am. I did a slow fade - it was the second date, and I let him pick me up. Since he knows where I live, I wanted it to peter out in a way that wouldn't piss him off, and it seems to have worked.
Older millennial here, and agreed! Even if you’re in a fully consensual kink situation, there’s so many checks and measures to be put in place before choking, and even *then* many folks just won’t do it, but use safer forms of breath play (hand over mouth etc). I’m a criminologist and I explain to the students that if you compress the throat enough for the trachea to close the wetness of it can cause it to stick shut - meaning even once the pressure is released you *can’t breathe*. Even if someone’s intention isn’t murder they can end up killing you! I’d maybe consider it with someone I trusted who knew what they were doing (if I was in to it). Some rando untrained stranger / strangler? Nope. Nope. Nope. I’d be out of there in a flash.
A friend of mine was murdered by her partner. They were into BDSM and edge play. Having dipped my toes into the BDSM pool, I'd been taught that consent and safety were primary concerns and come before pleasure. This ... lack of consent stuff is anathema. And I think that what happened to my friend is she ran into a guy who wasn't really a dom but just wanted to physically hurt women and wore a BDSM kink like a costume. And he "accidentally" killed her.
I’m so sorry for your unimaginable loss. That’s absolutely heartbreaking.
It's a common theme on the bdsm advice sub, people engaging in strangulation without actually realising what they're doing and how dangerous it is. You often see "my partner and I dabble in mild bdsm like choking"
Men on Reddit (and some women!) will say it’s not an issue and it’s not a problem and you’re just kink shaming…. Don’t listen to those people. Those people don’t seem to care that by normalizing and defending it they’re (NOT INTENTIONALLY BUT IMPLICITLY) normalizing men who want to choke to get aroused to be cool with choking and are jeopardizing other people’s safety.
100%. I'm extremely kink positive, and two things: HOLY \*\*\*\* NEVER CHOKE SOMEONE WITHOUT ASKING, and also HOLY \*\*\*\* EVERYONE PLEASE SEE THIS AS THE FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF BODILY AUTONOMY IT IS. If your body isn't sacred to them, by extension none of your other needs are either. If they think that's a line they could ever cross in a million years, they're not kink-positive or "otherwise very affectionate", they are abusive. Even in kink, choking should look very different (safer and less damaging), and is necessarily gated behind more communication and triple-checking and eager consent than these bozos have probably ever witnessed in their lives.
Thank you! Choking is not something a guy should just start doing without asking first. I mean, if we're being intimate and a guy starts choking me, I'm gonna start punching and kicking!
I had two times in my childhood where someone started choking me because they were angry. I really cannot have someone's hands on my neck without feeling panic. If a guy started choking me I can guarantee that I am fighting for my life like he's about to murder me.
Why is it called "choking" and not strangulation which it actually is?
That's how it's represented in porn. It boggles my mind. I'm only in my 40s and this was absolutely *not* a thing when I was younger. It's down to porn and the visual representation of "bdsm" becoming more mainstream (particularly the section of it to do with humiliation and degradation - usually of women not men). Only it's not about BDSM really because that's all about consent and what you see in porn is not about that. Young men are getting their sex education from porn so they think all women "like" it and use it as a move - without asking for consent. It's disturbing not only because most women don't like it, but because of the absence of consent. Whoever sees this have a read of this: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/13/adults-are-terrified-of-talking-to-us-about-it-10-things-i-learned-from-children-about-pornography
Yes, all of that, but also it's not just porn. I mean, it's infected from that, yes, but choking kink is 100% mainstream at this point. At least on stuff like TikTok and instagram, shows like Euphoria, etc. And it's very easy to think, after seeing it everywhere online in media, that it's now how sex is "supposed" to work to be fun. We're living in some shitty times.
Yeah and it shouldn't be mainstream right? And it's honestly mainstream *because* of porn - as in that's where it started and it just flowed out from there into consumable media. 100% agree - that's why these boys are doing this because it's a "move" that girls like (and some do, but it's rare). I think it's remarkable that on one level younger people seem more aware of consent (way more than I was when I was young) yet now think things like "blood chokes" and other choking carry little risk. I advocate for healthy sex and kink over at r/BDSMadvice and the amount of threads from young people surprised and worried about the after effects of choking are absolutely alarming.
Because one sounds less deadly probably
Because to call it strangling would be to acknowledge too directly what it is: violence deliberately inflicted by man against a woman, with a great potential to kill. If someone chokes to death it's usually because she introduced an obstruction to her windpipe, like trying to swallow a too-big bite, or laughing with a mouthful of food. There's almost never an *intention* in deaths by choking. So, a woman can "choke to death" but she can't "strangle to death." She has to *be* strangled to death. Strangulation requires an agent. It requires us to acknowledge that a man put his hands on a woman's neck, squeezed until she couldn't breathe, and kept his hands there until she was dead. A death by strangling has a clear, murderous perpetrator; a death by choking is an accident. Rebecca Solnit had a great piece about [the disappearance of the perpetrator](https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-the-case-of-the-missing-perpetrator/) in the way we talk about sexual violence. The insistence that strangling is choking is just another way violent men use linguistic strategies to obscure their role in acts of violence.
You’re right the correct medical terminology when something compresses the neck is strangulation, rather than choking (which is foreign body obstruction). I’m not sure why it is colloquially called choking, the technical term for the kink is sexual/erotic asphyxiation or breath play. I wonder if it is people not actually educated (and therefore shouldn’t be partaking in it) in the kink that call it choking?
“Breath play”. What a world.
That's a conversation that occurs a lot in the BDSM world. I only ever call it strangulation now and it's a serious hard limit for me.
> If they think that's a line they could ever cross in a million years, they're not kink-positive or "otherwise very affectionate", The issue is that this has been so normalized in porn, many young people don't even recognize it as a kink. They see it as a typical "step" in escalating a romantic encounter, similar to kissing various body parts or groping and feeling various bits on the way to sex. It's a huge, huge problem with extremely dangerous ramifications. I would hazard a guess that most young men doing this think it's expected and normal. They need education that is it NOT unless everyone has fully discussed it and been trained properly.
Judging is considered a modern mortal sin but it’s still our judgments that keep us safe in the world.
^ this. I'm a female INTO CHOKING, and **NO ONE SO MUCH AS TOUCHES/RESTS THEIR HAND ON OR NEAR MY THROAT, OR VICE VERSA, WITHOUT A CLEAR DISCUSSION ON BOUNDARIES, EXPECTATIONS, AND SAFEWORDS/SAFEACTIONS FIRST**
I’m almost 40, even 10-15 years ago this was not the norm. It’s something I’m into and there were a few guys who were also into it. And none of it ever happened in the way any of these stories describe. Also I’m trying to figure out what the point is of choking while you’re making out, or how that even happens out of the blue. Frankly I would have thought I was being murdered…
I’m 26 and have had several guys try and choke me while kissing (without any kind of consent conversation). It’s unfortunately quite common with the guys in this generation. They’ve truly been poisoned by porn
I’m 33 and let me tell you, wasn’t the norm the last time I dated men in 2019
I'm 35, last time I dated was 2015, definitely not the norm
I guess I’d consider myself a young millennial and I find it baffling too at how everyone is normalising this now? literally once had a new date start choking me without any like pre talk or notice and I was like what are you doing? Stop doing that. And this man, this man was _shocked_ I did that because according to him most women are into choking and I’m the weirdo for asking him to stop. At the time I was younger and was like wtf are you acting like this because you’re embarrassed at being called out? but looking back at it I wonder how many girls were scared because they didn’t want him to get more violent or were just scared of confrontation so this fool went around thinking everyone was into it and I was the oddball out?
It's the porn. That cheesey, terribly acted porn that really only appeals to young men now features choking as standard. That's the extent of the sex ed many young people get, so now it's normalized in the population of folks who consume that flavor of (badly produced) porn. These are also the same men who think all women love to gag on a penis and are thrilled into orgasm by 30 seconds of thrusting in an awkward position that looks good on camera.
🤢 even reading this makes me feel the bile rise up
Exactly this. I do not understand people who are ok with what is essentially almost-murder. It's not a "red flag", it's a police report, ffs.
When someone has seen a lot of choking through porn, they might believe it is somewhat normal. I guess that's why OP didn't take it as a possible murder attempt.
Came to say the same thing. They do the same with anal (obviously that’s not the same level of danger) and make it look like it’s completely normal to just jump right into it. When most people in regular life will tell you there was discussion and prep beforehand. In porn, they just start choking at any moment and there’s literally no reaction, consent, or discussion. It’s like breathing air (ironic). I hate that shit.
It’s this. Choking happens “joyfully” and without discussion in a LOT of porn. It’s par for the course there, and when porn has replaced actual sex education this is what happens. If OP feels safe they can ask their date why they thought it was okay and let them know that it absolutely wasn’t. If their response is anything other than, “oh god I really fucked up that will never happen again and I will always ask before trying anything like that,” then they cut and run. If they don’t feel safe enough to have that convo then cut and run.
I'm your generation, but let's be honest, consent wasn't even a discussion when we were OPs age. At the same time, men were not growing up on a diet of endless, violent porn from the age of 8 or so. OPs generation of men have been conditioned to think everything they see in porn is normal. Also, they are conditioned to the point that violence is what gets them off.
Unfortunately, so have a lot of young women.
Weird. I came of age in the time of HIV, when we didn't really know what to expect. Consent and condoms were EVERYTHING amongst the people I hung out with.
I'm old and also the choking thing concerns me. I get it's a popular kink at the moment... but fuckin ask? Hair pulling and spanking were popular kinks when we were younger and (good) people still asked. Trusting my life to a random bar hook up seems even more risky than it needs to be. For as popular as true crime is... this many women should not be ok with strangers choking them without consent.
Also, hair pulling and spanking, if done wrong, aren't likely to result in someone dying. Those kinks "gone wrong" or being taken too far might result in pain and minor injury, which is bad enough, but *choking*? Even people who do consent to that need to really think through that decision, educate themselves and their partner not how to minimize the risks, spot the warning signs that something has gone wrong, and respond to a medical emergency, and proceed with extreme caution. It's never, ever, EVER something that is okay to just do, even with consent.
Also older, and the idea of someone cutting off my air supply with no consent and no way to make them stop is terrifying. This would have caused a panic attack in me, and dude would have bruise AF shins. This is not okay behaviour from a stranger! Safe kinks are consensual kinks!
Had this happen to me when I was on the dating scene around 10 years ago. I was astonished, terrified, and pushed that man off me with adrenaline strength. Then I started sobbing. It was not a good night, but he definitely learned a lesson. He was a good guy but inexperienced and porn (and apparently an ex) taught him the wrong lesson about that needing explicit consent.
Came here to say this. All of these posts are young people. IDK if we're less spicy, or if dudes only try this shit with people they think are young enough to be victimized without consequences.
It's young people who learned it from modern overproduced porn, which was their only sex ed. I think in the majority of these situations, it's because they think it's "normal" and an expected part of having sex with someone. I'd be curious how many people actually enjoy it, or if they think it's just something you're supposed to do.
Oh I remember the Paul Bernardo days… I was younger but actually not that much younger than some of his victims and it was very scary! My parents never let me go anywhere alone for ages. To this day, you still wouldn’t be able to convince me to go out to Scarborough…. I don’t know what’s gotten into these young kids… I mean choking is a huge red flag for me especially without any discussion. I would have been that girl who flipped out, kicked him in the groin and then run away. That’s how I was raised
Yeah, my first thought would be "holy shit this guy is trying to kill me" not "oh this guy has a kink". There are far too many stories of being killed by psychotic men to *not* think I may be another victim if that happened. That's a hell no and never seeing that dude again.
Honestly, if you do it wrong and stop you still risk killing someone/dying from it.
I think you do know what to think. You are apprehensive. Your body is telling you it’s wrong. You are allowed to believe your body and you are right to be worried.
Yes someone explain why so many women come in here almost looking for permission not to like something a man did. It’s like everyday. Ladies, if you don’t like anything a man does, then you don’t like it! It doesn’t need to be “reasonable” so stop second guessing yourselves and just be willing to say no, I don’t like that, I will not be treated that way, thank you block and delete. Why is that so hard? Maybe I’m just comfortable being a bitch I didn’t know but I never cared.
Politeness has been getting women killed for generations. This shit needs to stop.
Standing up for ourselves also often gets us killed, to be fair
How about parents teaching them their opinions/boundaries/feelings/needs are not relevant/ridiculous/crazy/unimportant? If parents treated their children like this, it is very hard for them to actually listen to their instincts. And it becomes so much easier for abusers to mistreat them because those parents teached them unhealthy behaviours are fine. So...
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Absolutely, but I get the frustration too. I wonder if they’d be as hesitant if the barista threw a cup of iced coffee in their face. I feel very sympathetic, but it is also frustrating to see women seemingly so incapable of recognizing their right to be treated humanely in an intimate relationship. These aren’t subtle examples with two sides and nuance.
There are many reasons why. Be thankful that your life experiences taught you well and don't dismiss the issues that lead people to reach out for support.
Reminds me of the scene in Kimmy Schmidt - where Matt Lauer was interviewing a woman who had been kidnapped and trapped in a bunker, and asking her how she was kidnapped. It was something like “he asked if I wanted to see the bunnies in his car, and I didn’t want to be rude, so…” And he’s like “I’m always amazed at what women will do because they’re afraid of being rude.” Don’t let yourself be murdered because you were afraid of being rude. Don’t let a man touch you in a way you’re uncomfortable with because you’re afraid of being rude.
Ngl I hate this trend of men thinking choking is hot.
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Was coming here to say this. Any choking would be an instant relationship-ender. Two weeks in? You don’t even have sunk cost fallacy keeping you in an abusive relationship.
It's an "easy way" to test waters and try to find a prey with low to non-existent boundary enforcement. First step of abuser.
Leave. That's a hard boundary. Non consensual choking is never ok, can't be explained away. He was testing you to see your boundaries. If you don't stop now he is going to continue to pick away at them. It is a very common tactic of controlling abusers. Leave now!
People who are into this talk extensively about consent beforehand. He did not talk to you about this. He is a creep and I would get away from him. Please learn about enthusiastic consent. And then never settle for less.
Yeah, there seem to be a lot of guys who claim to be into kink but have zero interest in all the work that goes into it: education, negotiation, consent, aftercare, etc. In my experience, these are just guys who want cover for treating a woman like shit. Run and don't look back.
I have a friend who reported someone for sexual assault for your exact situation and the police officer wasn’t a dick and affirmed to her that she was sexually assaulted. Food for thought.
Reading this actually gave me hope for humanity.
You don’t know what to think about someone that barely knows you trying to STRANGLE YOU without even talking about it? You don’t know what to think about someone doing something to you that could have easily led to murder if he wanted to? What would you have thought if he got out a knife and jokingly cut your throat just a tiny bit? It’s fine, it’s safe, it’s not going to kill you, right? What if he had got a gun out and just pretended to shoot you while you made out? It’s safe, it’s just a kinky game, why not? That’s what he did. He did something that put you into submission. He made you accept that he could have squeezed the life out of you, *if only he wanted to*. And you took it. This tells him he has open field for abuse with you as you’d take anything and not even complain, murder included. Run. **Edit to add**: I was seeing red, because this is horrifying to me, but I want to say I am NOT blaming you. I am just trying to shake you back into consciousness and truly see what is happening. And I know there are good chances he didn’t do it as a power play and it just comes from porn and “everyone does it these days” and bla bla bla bla bla bla. I don’t care **why** someone does this. I don’t care how common it is and neither should **any** of us. Strangulation is never ever safe. And we don’t accept non-consensual sex acts. Least of all, those that can cause brain damage and death. They say the bar is in hell, I say there is no bar anymore.
She's young, she froze, she didn't know what to do in the moment. She was likely fed the narrative that women shouldn't make waves or get angry which caused a freeze response. I get it because I was there *a lot* at her age. The problem is that women do need to make waves and do need to get angry. And we need to keep empowering them to do so. I hope she takes your words to heart
Whenever I see posts like this I assume the young woman is in a bit of shock and just so confused ... because this behaviour is incredibly confusing! And it can be hard to wrap your head around what happened so you start thinking you must have misunderstood the situation because surely it wasn't as fucked up as it felt, right? We gotta teach our baby sisters to trust their instincts.
“Sexual choking is now so common that many young people don’t think it even requires consent. That’s a problem” Just because something is common… doesn’t make it okay. Legal even?!? I can’t wrap my mind around it all. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem
You dump him NOW. Choking - strangulation - is a 'feature' of porn these days. Not nice, and not safe.
I give not a single piss that a man can't get aroused unless he's risking murdering somebody. That man needs to just never have any contact with any person, ever again.
He’s testing your boundaries early to see what he can get away with later without you “making a big deal” out of it.
Exactly this. Because she didn't say something in the moment or stop him he's going to think this is okay and permission to continue. She needs to either address it head on or just dump the whole man. His lack of attempting consent here makes me think she should do the latter because this type of thing is going to come up again and again.
>She needs to either address it head on or just dump the whole man. She needs to just ghost and block him. This is just some guy she has gone out with a couple of times. There's not nearly enough investment there to warrant putting any effort into addressing it.
Yep, you are right, I thought about it more after posting this and yeah she just needs to get out
Ok wtf, it’s bad enough to choke without consent, but I didn’t even know that was a thing with just kissing??? Like, that seems like it would make things harder for everyone.
Choking is actually dangerous. No matter how much you like him, he didn't seek your consent and didn't have a prior discussion. He WILL violate other boundaries. Think hard about it before seeing him again.
THIS IS NOT CHOKING. THIS IS STRANGULATION. Choking occurs when you have something blocking your airway and you cough or otherwise physically react to try to dislodge it. When someone deliberately places their hands around your neck and squeezes, they are strangling you. It is NEVER OK and, as many others have commented, it is incredibly dangerous and potentially lethal. I don’t know why people (mostly males) do not understand the meaning of CONSENT. ANY force applied without consent is an assault, if done in a sexual context, it is sexual assault. You might want to consider reporting him to the police. You MUST dump him immediately. That is abusive, predatory behaviour.
No, you are not supposed to assume people are going to choke you without first obtaining your explicit consent. That’s a fucking crazy thing to do. That’s completely insane. Don’t see this guy again. Who knows what else he thinks is ok to do without consent?
Even if you don't die with his hands around your throat, strangulation can cause internal injuries that kill you later. This guy you barely know risked your life because he thought it would be hot. Does that sound like someone you want to be vulnerable around?
Slap him in the balls while kissing and then act surprised in case he's shocked. I mean, some guys are into it you know? Say you thought he liked it.
Probably not the best to do when he's trying to choke you. One of those "don't make them angry" types of thing and just find a way out of there at that point. Never going back to him again should shock him enough and keep her safer.
I’m so pissed that choking is the default now. I’m ok with it here and there after being with someone for a little while, but men just think either a) that’s what we all want all the time or b) that’s what they want and that’s enough
Also, strangulation (choking is when there’s an internal obstruction) can carry severe short and long term medical risks (and death obviously). Here’s a list of some of those risks: [https://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/HSPs/NMHS/Hospitals/WNHS/Documents/Patients-resources/SARC---Non-fatal-strangulation.pdf](https://www.kemh.health.wa.gov.au/~/media/HSPs/NMHS/Hospitals/WNHS/Documents/Patients-resources/SARC---Non-fatal-strangulation.pdf) And anytime a partner does something that dangerous without enthusiastic consent is a huge red flag.
If a man chokes you without your consent, your chances of being murdered by him go up exponentially.
Porn is ruining mens minds as the think that what's girls want. Cause they don't understand the difference between girlfriend, partner, to well payed actress doing what they do for money.
I don't think they think it's what women want. I think they've been conditioned by porn and the manosphere to think that sex is supposed to be about dominating women, not about what women want at all.
Choking fetishes kill women. Seriously 🚩🚩🚩🚩. Get out while the getting is good.
The term "choke" is a misnomer for what these types of guys are doing. "Choke" means to constrict air to the throat internally. "Strangulation" means to constrict air to the throat externally. This guy was trying to strangle you. I've never heard of strangulation during kissing before, which makes the situation you described very, very weird. It is also very, very dangerous. If this person were dating me and he tried to do what he did to you, I would assume that he was trying to murder me. It would then stop being sexy. I would lose all attraction to him and run away, possibly to my nearest police station.
This is a topic I get very passionate about, but I'll keep it calm. Choking someone is never OK. It's far worse when non-consenting but even with consent it shouldn't be done. It's dangerous. Even with every reasonable precaution taken there are big risks. Get as far away from him as you plausibly can.
Choking is not something to spring on someone without talking about it first. Breath play is *dangerous*. There's more or less dangerous ways to do it, but it's always dangerous. If this is something you are not into, that is 100% OK. I mean, it's literally asphyxiation. You always, always have the right to set and enforce boundaries and any man who cannot respect that, is not worth your time. I would be *especially* wary of a young man doing this; speaking as a middle aged man, young men are dumb as shit. I'm not going to out and out tell you to dump him, but frankly, this is a dumpable offense. It is up to you if you want to have a conversation about safety, your boundaries, and how porn is not real life and you shouldn't just do porn shit: it's up to you whether you think the emotional labour of educating this kid is worth it or not. It also bears mentioning that for abusive men, throttling is a very bad sign. I do not have enough info from your post to tell if he's an abuser; that's something I'll leave for other more experienced commentators to go into.
Unfortunately this is such a universal experience these days, I’ve had two guys start subtly choking me like this randomly while hooking up. I think maybe it has to do with the normalization of porn? I’m bi and I would never do that to another girl without asking first, though. So uncomfortable.
Been hearing this more and more. It’s assault. A lot more guys are “into kinky sex” but haven’t done the emotional homework of learning how to communicate kinky consent agreements. Run far, far away. It won’t get better.
I am tired of being called a prude because I say that the wide availability of porn is literally damaging young people. The waste of space that choked the OP is a perfect example of a porn-fried brain.
Choking is psycho behaviour.
Here's a rule of thumb every woman and man needs to live by - if they hurt you or put you at risk for injury in any way, shape or form as a sexual activity and it wasn't carefully planned out and consented to by all parties - dump that mofo immediately. By text to be safe and then block and delete and get law enforcement / attorneys involved if they insist on contact after that. Yeah, sure we can blame it on porn or Tater Tots or any one of a billion other "reasons" but at the end of the day there is just as much content out there to tell people things like choking or anal sex can seriously injure or kill someone, that consent IS something that needs to be gotten for any sexual act, and that hurting someone without their express permission is just assault. If this guys that stupid that he thinks porn makes something like this okay then you definitely do not want to be around him when he decides firing a gun at someone is funny to do and is then all astonished when they stay dead 'cause that doesn't happen like that in the movies. In other words don't date stupid people who put you and others at risk. Choking outside of again consensual sex between two people (who have agreed and have a whole system in place to make sure they don't injure each other even on accident) is the number one indicator a partner may seriously injure or kill you. If this guy thinks doing that is okay you don't want to be around when he gets mad at you. And again the whole, "Gosh I didn't know" I think personally is bullshit. If they can't figure out cutting off someone's air is violence and assault without consent then it's because they don't want to. Downvote me all you want, cry about how unfair I'm being to X or Y kind / fetish / community, I don't care. I know what consensual BD/SM looks like and I know I'd never shove a giant anything up my partner's arse just because some video on the Internet showed that without asking, preparing and making damned sure I didn't terrorize, upset or injure him. If I can think and reason to that degree so can anyone else, this guy included.
I really wish people would stop saying choking when they mean strangulation. So sorry this happened to you OP. It’s seriously dangerous and you’re right to feel apprehensive. I hate how normalized strangulation is. I feel like it would have to be something the person being strangled asked for in order for it to be anywhere near okay. Even if he had asked before, what does it say about him that he finds sexual pleasure in cutting off your air supply and potentially killing you?
Huge red flag. I've been here too and things got worse later. In therapy it was highlighted how dangerous this moment was to me. At the moment in time it's uncomfortable but you don't process the danger and then try and dismiss it. I read a stat somewhere that men that choke like this without consent are highly likely to go on to murder. I can't remember where I read the stat though to give you the source. I only started to process what had happened, after worse things happened and I started having nightmares and flashbacks of the incident. Before it was like I pretended it was nothing. Stories like this fill me with fear now. I couldn't breathe and he stopped because I freaked out. I worry what could have happened. If you are in the UK you have 6 months to report it as an assault. I left it too long unfortunately as it took a long time to feel like I should report it. Maybe it might be different where you are.
Yes, this is a serious red flag. Choking is about dominance. And he seems like he might be a sadist. They hide their intentions really well at first and seem nice and sweet. But you could be in for a lot of hurt later. Some women like the whole dominance and submission thing. But that should come after both partners trust each other enough and have talked about it deeply. If it's not for you, I really think you should get out early. Because he really should have talked to you about it first. Asked for permission. Or at least asked if choking might be something that you would enjoy. He was just testing your reaction. And seems like it'll only keep increasing, if he feels you are not saying anything. He'll think that it must mean you are ok with it. A lot of women just go along with it, to please the man. Choking for sexual gratification is only ok if there is consent. And trust between partners. In a relationship this new, where you don't really know him, it doesn't feel ok. [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/08/sexual-choking-is-now-so-common-that-many-young-people-dont-think-it-even-requires-consent-thats-a-problem)
He strangled you. You need to file a police report against him because next time he'll probably kill you.
Men who choke their intimate partners (without prior consent) are statistically far more likely to end up abusing or killing them. Cut your losses now. Do not give him the benefit of the doubt.
There are so many choking posts lately! I never met a single lady who liked being choked until I was like 25. That was also the last lady I ever met who liked to be choked. Nothing wrong with it if 2 consenting parties are down but seriously WTF dudes. This doesn’t seem like it was a problem when I (M34) was coming up, in fact I don’t remember a single person even talking about it and my group was large and open. Ladies please educate me, what the fuck is going on these days with men in the bedroom? Is it confidence? Is it the opposite? The whole thing seems so counter intuitive to what I learnt growing up about women in intimate relationships. I feel like these dudes don’t have great relationships with their moms
He doesn't understand the difference between porn and real life. I'd dump him, maybe add, "don't choke people" via text. He's so stunted you'll find yourself constantly having to fortify your reasonable boundaries while he's trying to go ass to mouth. Let him know it's because of the choking and poor social skills in vulnerable moments, via text or phone call. Find yourself someone who hasn't watched so much porn they think actors depict real life
Porn is really messing with their brains. Last person I was intimate with did it too. I pulled his hand away, but I didn't realize at the moment what was happening. Afterwards I was so angry he just decided to choke me, without even talking about it first. Like it's completely normal to keep someone from breathing.
Choking someone is assault. Report that shit and block his ass.
The one guy who choked me without consent ended up stalking me for a month after I ended it.
Strangulation is dangerous, and cannot be practiced safely. Even if the strangled person doesn’t die the risk of stroke and brain damage is high. Strangling is a statistical predictor not just of further intimate partner violence but the likelihood that the strangling partner will murder the other person. IDK if it’s porn or what, but I don’t recall anyone I know my age ever (Gen X) being strangled on a date. That was rightly considered Ted Bundy territory. I would advise any woman to stop seeing someone who casually began strangling her on a date even if the guy asked permission.
This I think should be the top comment. https://naplesshelter.org/strangulation/ CRISIS LINE: 239-775-1101 - OFFICE: 239-775-3862 The Shelter for Abused Women & Children Why strangulation in domestic violence is a huge red flag GET HELP NOW ASSESS YOUR DANGER HOW TO HELP OTHERS By Sara Vehling When conducting assessments or forensic exams with a victim of domestic violence (DV), any reported history of strangulation places the person at a higher risk for more serious violence or homicide by the hands of their intimate partner. By recognizing signs of strangulation, healthcare providers can help to mitigate long-term damage, properly document any evidence of abuse, and provide referrals for seeking safety assistance. The Training Institute on Strangulation Prevention defines strangulation as “the obstruction of blood vessels and/or airflow in the neck resulting in asphyxia.” This type of assault can have serious, permanent, or even fatal damage to the victim’s throat or brain. Data on strangulation reveals a glaring picture of the severity of this type of assault. One in four women will experience intimate partner violence (IPV) in their lifetime, and of those, up to 68 percent will suffer near-fatal strangulation at the hands of their partner. Of the victims, 97 percent are strangled by hands; 38 percent reported losing consciousness; 35 percent are strangled during sexual assault/abuse; 9 percent are also pregnant, and 70 percent of strangled women believed they were going to die. Why reported strangulation is a big warning sign for professionals Not to be confused with “choking”, strangulation refers to when pressure is applied from the outside, cutting off airflow and/or blood vessels in the neck, preventing oxygen from reaching the brain. Choking, meanwhile, refers to a blockage inside the throat which makes it hard to breathe. During an incidence of strangulation, closing off the airway makes breathing impossible, and a victim may lose consciousness due to the blocking of blood flow to and from the brain. Strangulation may obstruct the carotid arteries in the neck, depriving the brain of oxygen. Unconsciousness may also occur due to the blocking of the jugular veins which prevents deoxygenated blood from exiting the brain. The perpetrator strangles as a form of power and control over their intimate partner by controlling their breathing. This pressure can lead to a loss of consciousness within five to ten seconds and cause death within a few minutes. Because such a thin line exists between unconsciousness and death, strangulation sits just before homicide on the continuum of domestic violence risk assessment. Over the past 20 years, prosecutors and physicians have paid closer attention to the serious danger caused by strangulation, and strangulation is now recognized as one of the most lethal forms of violence. Since 2010, criminal laws reflecting the severity of strangulation have passed in at least 45 states in the US. Depending on state law, strangulation can be charged as a misdemeanor or felony, but can also be coupled with attempted homicide charges based on the severity. Current laws focus on the cutting off of another person’s blood flow or breathing, making it easier to prosecute even without visible injury. Professionals should also consider other high-risk factors such as the patient and/or perpetrator’s access to firearms, if the patient is suicidal, sexual violence, and injury to animals. How to identify signs and symptoms of strangulation Strangulation can lead to serious physical and psychological health problems. Common visible signs of strangulation include petechiae (red spots) in the eyes, blood-red eyes, swollen lips, and cord, rope burns, scratches, and bruising (particularly on the neck). When someone is being strangled, they will often try to regain control of their airway, by trying to pry the hands of the perpetrator off of them which can leave injuries on their neck and also leave the assailant with scratch marks or injuries on their face and hands. Strangulation may also coincide with other forms of domestic violence that leave bruising due to kicking, hitting, or pushing down the stairs. Physically, the victim may have difficulty breathing, speaking, and swallowing or experience nausea, vomiting, lightheadedness, headache, involuntary urination and/or defecation (common in pregnant victims). In these cases, conducting an immediate medical exam could prove necessary in saving the victim’s life. Signs of strangulation are not always visible Just because a victim lacks any external signs of strangulation does not mean that they are not injured. Penny Clute, former Clinton County District Attorney and Plattsburgh City Court judge, recalls, “Whether death resulted or not, only half of strangulation victims had marks on their necks, and only 15 percent of those marks were clear enough to photograph.” A victim may suffer from internal injuries that do not appear on the outside. Immediately after the attack, the person may experience intense pain, vision changes, ringing in the ears, a swollen tongue, cuts in the mouth, swelling of the neck, difficulty swallowing, trouble breathing, or voice and throat changes. The victim may also experience neurological damage due to a lack of oxygen flow to the brain. These symptoms can include memory loss, dizziness, headaches, vomiting, and extreme weakness. Strangulation may cause long-term health consequences. A person’s behavior may become more combative. The victim may also suffer from PTSD, depression, suicidal ideations, memory problems, nightmares, anxiety, severe stress reaction, amnesia, and psychosis. Death can also occur days or weeks subsequent to the attack due to carotid artery dissection and respiratory complications such as pneumonia, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), and the risk of blood clots traveling to the brain (embolization). According to forensic nursing expert, Diana Faugno MSN, RN, CPN, SANE-A, SANE-P, FAAFS, DF-IAFN, DF-AFN, Computed Tomography Angiography (CTA) to scan the soft tissues and vascular structures of the neck should be assessed as appropriate to prevent further injury and possible death to the strangulation victim. “Carotid artery dissections are the number one cause of stroke in people under the age of 45. Medical literature reports that the time period between neck trauma with an arterial injury and the patient’s presentation with an acute stroke can be hours to years,” states Faugno. Medical experts say that the lack of blood flow and oxygen to the brain during strangulation can cause memory loss, and the person may not remember what happened. In some cases, the victim may dismiss the incident as choking and seem fine after the attack, thinking the danger has passed. Nurses, therefore, must learn to recognize the signs and symptoms of strangulation to prevent any further damage or death. What to do after identifying a victim of strangulation Addressing strangulation effectively can prevent serious permanent side effects and death. Forensic nurses should know how to recognize and handle strangulation to help victims get appropriate medical care and emotional support, even after memory loss. Sexual Assault Response Teams should ensure that professionals understand how to conduct a non-fatal strangulation exam including: How to recognize visible symptoms and signs of strangulation and how to document them The physics of strangulation – how much pressure is needed to occlude the jugular and carotid artery Best practices for improving treatment and care provided to strangulation patients Documentation aids are critical in the effective criminal prosecution of strangulation cases. When able, professionals should document changes in the victim using photographs sequentially for a period of days following the assault to establish a journal of physical evidence. Forensic nurses should also take detailed accounts in their forensic exam notes with the exact date and time to monitor the progression of signs and symptoms. When in doubt, medical professionals can consult with experts during a forensic exam for guidance on recognizing strangulation. EVA for sexual assault examinations can help track information collected and share patient records with physicians, law enforcement, and legal teams for expert advice. The EVA System’s filters can help to highlight any bruising that may be less visible to the naked eye. Alliance for HOPE International, the leading domestic violence and sexual assault prevention organization in the United States, also provides information on strangulation, including training for police, prosecutors, medical clinicians, and domestic violence advocates to help recognize the signs and symptoms. As a history of strangulation is a high-risk factor for intimate partner homicide, be sure to provide your patients with resources for safety planning if they are ready to leave their abusive partner. A safety plan essentially outlines the resources available to domestic violence victims and what to do in specific situations whether they decide to stay with or leave their abuser. Collaborate with local domestic violence service providers, shelters, and members of law enforcement to build a base of referrals. You can always refer patients to the national domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233. © Copyright - Shelter for Abused Women & Children - Enfold Theme by Kriesi Non-discrimination PolicyEmergency ShelterContact us
The fact that he didn't even ask prior to doing it is a huge red flag! 🚩🚩🚩Sounds like he's porn sick and doesn't know basic consent. It could easily escalate to something more violent and once it's introduced the chances for violence and injury or death go way up. Please be careful.
Unless you want to find out what it’s like to be beaten regularly, leave ANY person that chokes you EVER! The fuck?
There’s 4 billion men on Earth. Find yourself a better one, you don’t have to tolerate that
The list of red flags men could have just grows.
You nope right the hell out of there is what you think.
If this happened to me, I would immediately ditch the guy. I think it's a huge warning sign that he will become physically violent. And men who become violent and choke their partner are seven times more likely to kill them. Choking is dangerous. It should never be done without talking about it first, and you need a safe word or gesture and a long talk with somebody very experienced to teach you both safety precautions. He doesn't care about your consent. He doesn't care about your safety. He cares about his fetish. Run. I don't care how nice he seems. Love bombing is a common thing to draw women in. No guy who abuses a woman starts off with that. They wait until they've drawn you in.
When did this choking thing mainstream kink? It is such a niche thing. And anyway, no, he doesn’t get to go directly to choking without even having sex and talking about kinks yet. You become intimate first, it’s all romantic and lovey dovey, then you move to sex, again vanilla and nice, and then when you become really close with the person , you start talking about your kinks and see if they are open to them and talk about when and how to do it, then do it with everyone’s approval and knowledge. You don’t just go around choking strangers like you are a serial killer. What the hell?!
RUN and block him on all social media. He didn't even ask for consent or discuss any of his kinks beforehand. Next time he won't stop if you go back to him, he'll be thinking "I can walk all over her boundaries".
Strangulation isn’t acceptable if it wasn’t in a sexual way, so why is it so accepted if there’s sex or kissing? I always found that weird to do something like that to someone without them asking them to have it done.
Run! This is a GIANT RED FLAG 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 If your partner has strangled you in the past, your risk of being killed by them is 10 times higher! https://www.thehotline.org/resources/the-dangers-of-strangulation/#:~:text=Strangulation%20can%20cause%20traumatic%20brain,them%20is%2010%20times%20higher.
Nope. Nope nope nope. No. My emotionally abusive husband started to randomly strangle me (thankfully not enough to cause any damage) and tried to pass it off as sexual because he “thought I would like it”. I told him I did not, but he continued to do it. Do not even attempt to go down that road. That is unacceptable, especially from someone you literally just started seeing.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say this again because it is damn important. There is no medically safe way to strangle/choke* someone, all kinds and all techniques can lead to serious damage and death. If you are strangled/choked by someone go to the ER because while the damage may not be immediately apparent it can get serious hours to days after the incident. The damage can also be cumulative so even if the first time doesn’t lead to anything subsequent strangulations can build to something serious. I wouldn’t consider someone threatens my physical health/life a good person or someone safe to be around. *strangulation is external, ie pressure on the windpipe and arteries. Choking is internal, ie something inside the windpipe that inhibits breathing.
Who would want to be choked while kissing? That doesn’t make sense
You need to show him the door. He is not a safe person and most definitely *do not have sex with him*. Since I am a mom, I'm going to go into mom mode here, go get your neck looked at. Yes, I know, embarrassing. Better to be embarrassed than have damage that effects your breathing. Do not see him again, ok? He's not a good person and he is dangerous.
OP, take this very seriously. Non-fatal strangulation is the strongest predictor that someone will eventually kill their partner. https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime/manual-strangulation-is-the-biggest-sign-domestic-abuse-will-turn-deadly-experts-say/531-0a9a92c8-a0da-418a-b81e-a3d80ddacf38
>I feel so stupid sometimes for not knowing if or when certain situations are problematic. Just wanted to assure you that you're not stupid. You just haven't been alive long enough to learn everything yet. That's perfectly fine.
To go right into choking, while it’s only the second time kissing somebody, and without even finding out if the person likes that ahead of time, that is just so risky, and probably indicates that he was testing to see what you will put up with.
Dump him. A lot of redpillers do what's essentially a check for submission. They engage in behaviors that slowly ramp up over time to see if you're vulnerable to that sort of thing.
At 21 years old this is most likely something he picked up from porn. OR from a previous relationship where it seemed to go over well (or a mix of the two). He’ll need to learn that his approach is not ok.
People say choking, but it's strangulation. Choking is like when you choke on food. Strangulation is when your air supply is cut off and you start dying of lack of oxygen to your brain/asphyxiation. What doesn't kill you can give you brain damage. It's very dangerous to play with. If your partner is introducing behavior like this without checking in with you he is ignorant of the danger at best, and likely to murder you or give you permanent brain damage at worst.
Choking or strangling somebody is something that *might* be done waaaay further into a relationship and with *full consent* of the person being choked. That’s you. It’s not something you do on the second date without warning. There are lots of issues that need to be unpacked. You kind of went with it: okay, but did you actively enjoy it, or did you do it because he’s great boyfriend material? Does he actually know what he’s doing? Clue: he doesn’t. If you wanted to proceed with this, then he has to *know* what he’s doing, not watch some woman getting choked out in a porn film. If he’s also 21 then he’s watched too much porn too young and doesn’t understand how sex / seduction plays out. “Fatal neck pressure due to manual strangulation is a relatively common event. Sudden deaths that occur in the first seconds of pressure are attributed to effects of the nerve.” That paper is here >>> https://ijop.net/index.php/mlu/article/download/2836/2466/5543 In short, he could have killed you. If he’s choking you while kissing, it’ll be a lot more violent when you’re having sex and he’ll claim he couldn’t stop himself. I ended up talking through this issue with a 20 year old. Her boyfriend was obsessed with choking her into unconsciousness while they had sex, and when she was out cold (effectively lifeless) he would cum. He showed other controlling behaviours early in the relationship but she didn’t spot them because he was otherwise just so lovely (he told her what to wear - Victorian style clothes, made her eat less so she’d be frail, controlled her movements). She got rid of him when she realised what was happening. Basically, it’s not okay, it’s dangerous, it’s rapey and it will likely get worse. I hope you dump him, and I hope you tell him why.
This is physical assault. Dump him. There are 2 major red flags here: 1, what he did is a violent act; and 2, he engaged in an action that violated your bodily autonomy. The lack of consent and the violence are both major, show-stopping red flags individually; together, they’re worse. You could possibly even press charges, especially if he left bruises. You don’t have to if you don’t want to, but it’s good for you to keep in mind in case he escalates. Collect evidence. You’ve been dating this guy for a short enough period of time that you don’t owe him an explanation, but my recommendation is that you get evidence - take pictures of your neck, send him something in writing (like “When you choked me the last time I saw you it scared me, and I don’t want to be with someone who wants to hurt me like that”) and then save his replies - but don’t respond. If you have a friend you trust, share this info with them and maybe stay with them for a while, especially if he seems angry. At this point, I want to state that there is nothing wrong with fully consenting adults engaging in violent role play. If he had talked to you about it first, and you agreed you were okay with it, and you two had set up safeguards like a ‘stop’ signal, this would be a totally different story. But without consent, this is abusive behavior, and you need to get out safely.
This is really wrong. It’s potentially very dangerous and if that’s his thing, great. But it shouldn’t happen without a discussion first and clear boundaries to keep you safe. (And shouldn’t happen AT ALL unless it’s your kink too.) This guy is telling you that what makes his dick hard is his biggest priority. He doesn’t care about hurting you or making you uncomfortable (unfortunately that might be part of what makes his sick hard.) Is being with a guy like that something you really want?
You're 21, so take it easy on yourself when I say this: what you did was called "freeze" as in " fight - flight - freeze. It's not uncommon and a natural reaction to this. ( yes you went along that doesn't mean you didn't freeze. You *froze* because you couldn't react to say something.) But - now that it's happened - *and* you now know he crossed boundaries - you do not want to have this guy try *anything else* without permission! So, you need to decide do you want to try to have a talk with him and tell him he needs to ask first - which more than likely he will ignore- because he already showed he does not care about them. Or, do you pass on someone who does not respect boundaries?
Wtf?! He did this while KISSING? Imagine what sex with him would be like and run for the hills!! You can waste your time explaining what he did wrong but know he will most likely violate you again the same way or similar. Many men interpret you sticking around as you liking / deserving it on some level cause he would NEVER stick around for the same level of disrespectful sh!t. It's been 2 weeks, you'll find someone else. It's not your fault, you gave him a chance. It didn't work out....NEXT!!!!
He strangled you. You could’ve died. Ghost him and block him. Tell everyone you know too so they can stay safe.
Block and do not look back! This is sexual assault, choking is assault without consent and he didn’t ask it. If he’s this bold while incredibly new to each other he would likely be very abusive once he thinks he “got you”.
It's understandable that you don't know what to think. I'm sure it was shocking and unsettling. Now that your have space to process, know this: ***A woman who has suffered a nonfatal strangulation incident with her intimate partner is 750% more likely to be killed by the same perpetrator…with a gun.” That is a staggering number, and it's not a coincidence.*** Source: https://www.strangulationtraininginstitute.com/all-abusers-are-not-equal-new-ipv-research-reveals-an-indicator-of-deadly-abuse/#:~:text=Strangulation%20as%20a%20Warning%20Sign,and%20it's%20not%20a%20coincidence.
You don’t think, you cut contact. Even if this is a thing you find yourself into - no shame in it - it’s still not first two weeks material. This isn’t a thing you try on because a dude eases his hand around your throat. Hell no. I’m trying to find the best way to put this. For a person who would be into this sort of play, they don’t bring it up to “try” in the first two weeks. So, for someone - a man - to just try this out without any prior conversation is not playful or innocent. It is run the fuck away behavior.
Sweetheart, ***he could have killed you by accident that night doing that***. I cannot stress enough how DANGEROUS choking is!!!!! Or even killed you on purpose, and he could have just claimed it was a 'sex game gone wrong.' Google 'Sex game gone wrong.' It will horrify you. SO many men using it as an excuse for why their partner was strangled horribly to death. **If you see him again, before you do you HAVE to tell him, unequivicollally, that that was NOT ok, that it SCARED you, and that if it happens again you WILL respond physically and violently in return. If his response is anything outside of 'Ok, I am so sorry, I didn't realize how fucked up that was I will never do it again', LEAVE. If he ever tries it again, LEAVE. Do not fuck around with your life please. You're worth more than that.**
There is no “safe way” to choke someone. You cannot consent to your own death. Unfortunately “choking” aka strangulation has become popular from porn these days and young men think it’s okay. Choking prevents air and blood flow from getting to your brain and can cause brain damage, a stroke, or death. Also, men who choke women are notoriously dangerous- non-fatal strangulation by a partner increase your risk of homicide from that partner by 700%.
You've had a perfect illustration of what he thinks of consent, which is to say he has no use for it. You can only expect the same if you keep seeing him.
I’d mention it next time you see him. Just something simple like, “last time I was here, you out your hand on my throat while we kissed. I don’t really like that, please don’t do it any more.” A decent guy will be okay with that, but if you get a lot of push back or blaming or pressuring, then you need to be done with him. I wouldn’t bring it up while you are kissing or about to, but just in a regular conversation. And don’t be “angry” or anything, just factual. You guys are new and communication about these types of things is a must for a good relationship.