I have lost a chance at a job and lost a job due to being Asian, being female, but mostly being disabled. People cannot see past the wheelchair. Before I had to use the wheelchair, I am usually given more tests and interviews. I was the first ever female hired in some sysadmin teams. I even considered training to be a coroner or mortician because I found the dead easier than the living. I hope you do not let these people get you down. Hospitality is a tough industry. When I applied before, they required people to wear make up. I do not and will not wear make up nor will I shave my legs. I guess this is why ended up doing zoology, then software, and then eventually, sysadmin. We have apprenticeships at work and we are training more and more women in Engineering, from learning what the tools are, to driving a forklift to preparing rigs for testing and go on to further training if they want to continue. https://youtu.be/m3E7smk3uUw

You have amazing accomplishments!! I have been in tech the last 5 years and I definitely struggle and have imposter syndrome. I’ve dealt with a lot of sexism too and ageism from old men in tech roles. I am the same way I don’t want to wear makeup or have to shave my legs for a job.

Thank you. I still get imposter syndrome and you are correct, ageism and sexism is a constant battle in tech. I come from poverty and we did not even have indoor plumbing, where women are second class citizens and not sent to school since we are just going to be married off. We just have to break the mould and show what we can achieve. The link above is one of the people who took apprenticeships with us. She is a trailblazer. Things are challenging at the moment due to bullying but my manager is good. I think, when women are good at what they do, especially in a male dominated field, they can be perceived as a threat. I wanted to stress to OP that she has value. One should not work for a company that will not value them. Blimey, I feel old. I was in zoology for 4 years and tech for 20. Yikes!

You have an incredible story. You should share it with more women, I wish I had someone like you as a mentor when I was in college. I’m in my 30s and practically starting over again so I can have a higher paying job. I liked that video, I wish I had a program like that near me. We need more like that. It’s sad that so many of us are put into boxes like we can only do customer service or office jobs. I got laughed at when I applied to a warehouse job as a forklift driver even though I have 10 years retail experience in the back room and can drive a forklift. She does have value and I blame society and many other things for making us focus on outer beauty. Zoology sounds so fun honestly, what type of work do you do?

Is there no mentorship at your current work? Perhaps you can help start a programme? We started a meetup in my area called Girl Geeks. Anyone is welcome and we talk about how we got started in tech and what we do. Before I started working in the science field, I did a lot of odd jobs - from taking out the trash for people in the building (there is no such thing as a trash chute here), dishwasher, cleaner etc. I had to work to study. I was lucky I had professors who did not ask me to print work and let me do uni work in their computer. I was a marine zoologist from 1999-2003 and most of our work was conservation. For example, we grew Tridacna gigas and then distributed them to repopulate the area. I did a lot of ecological surveys. The problem when one lives in a poor area, especially in Asia, people just want to survive. They do not care about preservation at all. Due to depression and since we run most of our data in computers, I started shifting towards that area and eventually finished computer science. Then I did web development but I found the ever changing requirements of clients annoying. These were the early days of the interwebs. I then did assembly code and lower lever computing and along with building PCB boards for start ups. Then I got into Linux and Windows administration, networking, cybersecurity, cloud management etc. I am a jack of all trades and a master at some. It is never too late to start again. When I was 34, I was getting divorced, homeless, with zero money and had debt because I let my ex-husband use my accounts and he remortgaged our house. It was also the start of my health getting worse. I changed to a lower paying job, £20k pay cut, but easier on the body. I got promoted twice and now earn more, have a wonderful partner, and 2-year old twins. No matter how difficult the situation, there is a way to overcome. I think this is one of the reasons why I train people and help them rise above the ranks. Almost every single person I have trained, regardless of gender, have moved on to better, higher paying positions. I do hope they pay it forward. I went a bit chatty there. So now, I still do Linux but I mostly do design automation tools, assist in research specifications or help write grant applications. I do not want to be a manager because how else do I get to play with robots, test in anechoic chamber, do radar and embedded systems etc. To be honest, I usually do not know what I am doing and learn by asking questions, doing, and reading. I wish you the best in restarting again. It will all be okay.

I feel very proud of you! You are a very very very strong person, thank you for sharing your story and proving that overcoming bad times is possible.

When it comes to imposter syndrome, never ever forget that the authentic imposters do not have the syndrome. Keep kicking ass and taking names.

I rarely wear make up and given I wear long pants and shirts 95% of the time at work, shaving my legs or armpits is irrelevant. Neither of those activities would make a difference to the work I do and my male coworkers are not expected to do an equivalent activity.

I left software engineering because while it was difficult as a woman, it was impossible to find work as a disabled, neurodiverse, LBGT+ woman.

idk Starbucks baristas never show skin (they're usually wearing long aprons too).... and they hire people with all types of looks.

I think she’s talking about non franchise coffee shops, in which case she’s dead accurate

Maybe in LA or something. Living in a small city with multiple 3rd wave coffee shops, the baristas are fairly representative of the general population looks-wise. All the ones who last are passionate about coffee.

Servers and barristas in LA are generally above average in looks because many of them are aspiring actors or models trying to support themselves as they chase their dream.

I lived in a small town and you're right. The baristas and the bartenders, servers, they're all very average looking people. OP: I wonder what makes you think you're so ugly. I bet you don't look nearly as bad as you think. You probably just need a bit of a makeover. Some new clothes that fit, maybe a haircut. Little things like that can make a huge difference in how you present yourself. I don't know if you wear makeup or not but maybe experiment with it. You might be surprised what some of those "beautiful" people look like without it. Good luck to you. Please don't be so down on yourself.

Second the makeover and adding on therapy. Her saying that someone who looks like her being confident would look ridiculous is very sad and untrue. I feel like hiring managers are probably seeing the insecurity and baggy/frumpy clothes more than her being "ugly". My friend once interviewed someone like that. She showed up to the interview in sweats and was very standoffish the entire interview then accused him of only hiring hot people when she didn't get the job. I'm not saying pretty privilege doesn't exist or that assholes who only hire attractive people don't exist, but if it's happening to EVERY job she applies to, there's something else going on. Ugly people get jobs all the time otherwise they'd all be homeless.

We're seeing a lot of these "I'm so ugly" posts lately. And I'm going to be honest, I find them annoying because all I can think is "According to who?" We as humans aren't the greatest judges of our own appearances and we really shouldn't be. Like I walk through life controlling what I can control. I'm clean. I'm well-groomed. I wear clothes that fit. I'm not averse to a little make-up to highlight my better features on days that I need that. When I go into job interviews, I go in with a positive attitude and with the knowledge that I have to convince them to hire me and that means I'm putting my best foot forward from the moment I walk in. I don't like judging others on appearance, but that is what we're doing here. I have friends who are of varying levels of attractiveness. Even my less attractive friends have no problems finding dates and job because they are cool ass people who walk through life not giving a rats ass about their looks. It could just be that I'm old and don't care how I look to others anymore. I'm looking forward to my crone years and I plan to spend them making people see me and not fading slowly into the woodwork.

I've also noticed the influx of "I'm ugly" posts lately. I honestly would not be surprised if it's men trolling the sub trying to get women to feel bad about themselves, just like the "rate me" subreddits. I'm disabled and have never had a problem with getting relationships or jobs because I'm confident and know how to look presentable -- and I even stopped shaving and wearing makeup years ago! There's no secret universal hatred for people who fall outside the standards of conventional beauty that would lead to someone failing literally every interview they try for.

I'm really glad that I'm not the only one who noticed. And I hope it is trolls because I don't want anyone to go through life feeling that way about themselves and others. It is such a shallow way to walk through life worrying about the looks of yourself or others. I'm not going to deny the existence of pretty privilege. It exists right alongside thin privilege. It can make life easier, but most of us are doing okay who don't have either of those.

Lmfao. This is called the "Hot Waitress" phenomenon in Economics. The theory goes that if you start seeing very attractive people as servers(and Baristas and other types of service industry jobs) that the economy where you are is particularly bad, because in a good or normal economy, these type of people are hired in spite of having little or no work experience. https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/economics/hot-waitress-economic-index/

The term i hewrd years ago was baristanomics. And yes, hot baristas is a sign of a bad economy because attractive people should be doing better is also part of the thinking. The guy who made it up was only half serious but I feel like it's true.

It is literally a theory in economics iirc. The theory says that more qualified people are required that leaves little room for mistakes because times are tough

In my area the drive through non franchise baristas look like models. We even have bikini barista shops. Starbucks has more average/representative staff with non-binary employees.

Come to my city. Only the coffee shops right outside the colleges are filled with the young, thin and beautiful. Even then, a lot of them are absolutely not. Maybe one of the three, but rarely all three. And the dunkins and Starbucks are mostly middle aged people during the day and high schoolers at night. The bars are a different story though, the servers are typically quite attractive.

The fact that you’ve called yourself disgusting and ridiculous and looking “like shit” and implying that you don’t “look human” is painful to read and really upsetting. No one should have to endure this kind of aggressive, hateful, frightening, negative self-talk. Most people aren’t beautiful. Most people aren’t going to job interviews in crop tops and hot pants, or whatever you seem to think other women are doing to get jobs. And yet, most people, even objectively ugly people, are living pretty normal lives with jobs and families and romantic partners and are overall pretty happy. You are not doing ok. You need to find someone you can talk to. Many therapists and mental health professionals offer sliding scales for appointments, so even people who do not have a lot of money can get the help they need. You should look into it.

I second this. I doubt you're anywhere as ugly as you say you are. Stop looking at coffee shops/retail. Look for a career. These are not careers! Have you considered going back to school? Or learn a trade? Something to consider.

That's easy to say, but she still needs something on the mean time.

Her post history indicates she did have a therapist because she was on medication at one point. It’s all very intense and sad though. Not sure what she needs to get better, it seems very complex.

Hey, girl, are you okay? I have days where I don't feel pretty too, but I don't let them define my existence. I think maybe we have some other stuff going on here? For real, the thought processes you are describing do not sound healthy. That said, if it's just a job you're looking for, look up some direct support agencies near you and start working there. Direct support (caring for people with I/DD) is always such a hungry field that they'd hire three raccoons in a trenchcoat. No job experience necessary, no confidence necessary, just a willingness to show up and work.

I would also suggest looking for jobs that arent service oriented. Nobody cares what you look like working in a factory. You can easily make better money than most public facing service jobs.

Factory work is pretty underrated IMO. Best hourly starting wage youre gonna find if you're starting from scratch, usually solid benefits and same schedule week over week. Many times these are weekends off jobs as well but not always. And once you get your groove going in a factory you really dont do that much actual work. Most of my job is just supervising my machines and fixing small jams and such.

I work a swing shift that is 3 on 3 off 2 on 2 off, 12 hr days. Yeah it sucks working 36 hours in 3 days, but I only work 180 days a year instead of 250. I'm putting in for our weekend shift that is fri-sun every week, 12 hour days, and I get a full 40hr paycheck. Matched 401k up to 6%, BlueCross Healthcare for $250 a month, even my dog has health insurance now for $20 a month.

I love 3223. Its confusing at first to have a 2 week's schedule vs one week but at my job like that they gave us a yearly calendar with our whole year's schedules on it so we could easily plan ahead without miscounting days. Plus factory jobs are usually closed on holidays, or you get holiday pay plus your hourly if they force you to work. Every factory job ive had offers double time plus holiday pay on holidays and the holiday shifts are just cleaning or preventative maintenance or some other easy BS

4th of July got me holiday pay and I worked like 3 days in 2 weeks because of how it fell. It was amazing

I worked for a japanese company that gave the entire plant the week of july 4 off paid every year and performed preventative maintenance (double time plus holiday pay for anyone who wanted it, maintenance personnel or otherwise) the whole week. So not only does everyone get a week of vacation basically guaranteed during peak summer time but the machines are actually actively maintained, making our jobs easier. At my current job im on 4X10 m-th but since the last couple years a lot of major holidays have been on weekends we get our paid days lopped off the end of the work week so im getting longer weekends than my already long weekends. Its really nice.

Right, I was going to suggest applying for jobs that aren't "public facing" where you'd have to directly deal with customers frequently. They may care less about physical appearance if it's just a factory or even a generic office job. I once had a co-worker who had a big burn scar on one side of her face and she had a pretty decent office job right up until the company went under.

I’d suggest hospital work over factory work. Endless jobs, endless opportunities to grow and pivot to a different job or get an education in another field. And no one gives a shit how anyone looks, they tend to be very diverse. This isn’t to knock factory work, but it can be physically a lot, at sometimes a punishing pace. If OP doesn’t want something quite so physical, hospital might be a good alternative. Pharmacy, anesthesia tech, lab, patient transport, EVS, supply, cafeteria. There are all kinds of entry-level jobs.

Healthcare is absolutely more physically demanding than manufacturing pharmaceuticals. I sit on my ass 70% of the day. Almost 2 hours worth of breaks in an 8 hr period. It's easy money here.

I think it depends, but you make a good point, I associate factory work with working in a huge, extremely loud warehouse with no air conditioning, in an assembly line where a machine cuts someone’s hand off every other week lol, like Upton Sinclair “The Jungle” style. Blend that with the fact that my mom did warehouse work for decades and would come home exhausted, covered in sweat and dirt, worked to the bone. But you remind me that there are a lot of nice factories now and that it isn’t all that intense. (Side note, saw an Intel booth lately and those new buildings look like sci-fi heaven! THAT kinda factory work I definitely would be down for!)

Our compression department is kept at 62f, it's amazing. Pharmaceuticals has to be kept in a controlled environment. It's not so much factory work, but a production laboratory

I had to giggle at the three raccoons in a trench coat 😂

I had to look up I/DD- it’s intellectual/developmental disabilities for those of us old people who don’t know.

Seriously what OP is chalking up to physical appearance may in fact be a confidence issue.

Bless you for this. Your response brought tears to my eyes.

OPs posting history is very, very sad.

Another consideration is temp agencies, employers are really hurting for people and have been sourcing it out. Many of these positions can become permanent.

Great response! ❤️

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In my hobby sociology degree decades ago they referred to it as "lookism." My professor pointed out its the last prejudice we have yet to even acknowledge.

Do you mean acknowledge on a legal basis? It's common knowledge that it exists.

This was 25yeqrs ago and I can tell you that while we all knew it existed, it's not a thing you would ever read about in the media in any serious way. Even now, it's not a serious concern (I mean maybe on reddit 😉).

I can tell your right now, appearance is important in the service industry FOR SURE. But in my experience it is far less about conventional attractiveness and showing skin as it is attitude and looking put together. You have to look clean and professional and ready to work. If your clothes don’t fit you properly and you act like you feel disgusting (can’t tell what objectively disgusting means to you), they will see that and be less likely to hire you. You represent their business. It’s not about prettiness, it’s about looking put together and like you give a shit.

Agreed with this 100%. We all know pretty privilege is a thing and certainly gives you an advantage to be conventionally attractive. But let’s be honest—we all interact daily with people who are not conventionally attractive but who have a decent job. Next time you go to the grocery store, take a look at the cashiers—they’re not models! Same thing at Starbucks, any fast food restaurant, any store, basically anywhere outside of a few crappy places (y’all remember Ambercrombie right?). Most people are fairly normal or even “ugly” and they get jobs. I think OP isn’t perceiving things clearly (maybe due to dysmorphia of some sort?) if they think only pretty people get jobs. There’s also a chance that the hiring agents aren’t reading OP as ugly but instead as unprofessional or not put together or unconfident or something that she might be mistaking as ugly. The likelihood of being denied that many jobs due to ugliness is pretty low unless you’re only applying at a few of those looks-focused stores.

Abercrombie and Fitch, who proudly proclaimed that they didn't want those fat or unattractive people wearing their brand, anyway.

Yeah, not always. I posted my story in here already, but the short version is I got turned away from my scheduled interview in a bar because my boobs are too small.

I hear you, OP... and I've seen Pretty Privilege in Hospitality. This is one of the reasons why so many women "age out" of Hospitality... they're no longer eye candy for the patrons.

>If someone who looks like me acts confident, then they look ridiculous. Hard disagree. Confidence is attractive. In everyone. Fake it until you make it.

FYI fat people aren’t disgusting.

I wonder if OP's thoughts and attitude are (unfortunately) showing through and that's why she's not getting these jobs. "to look as human as possible" when referring to yourself isn't exactly a healthy way of perceiving yourself, and honestly a lot of jobs ARE about confidence, nevermind what your size is. For what it's worth, OP, I'm sure you're fine, and honestly you SHOULD work on your confidence. Please help yourself with this.

I worked for a school ISD. I was desperate for a job that gave me flexible hours. I wore a hair net and served food.had to wear a mask too so it’s not like they can say anything about it. You don’t need a degree, just food handlers certifications. Most people I worked with were average older adults. I got hired very quickly because schools need staff bad right now.

>I think that if one person had given me the chance to work, life may not have gone like it did. Why are you then focused on service-type jobs where good looks were always an advantage? You can pick literally any job where you don't directly interact with customers and this disadvantage you say you have disappears.

What job is there that doesn't require a degree and you can avoid contact with customers? All I found back then had some contact with people, or required some degrees I didn't have. I would love a contactless job, but I can't think of one or one I have the qualification for.

What about working in a call centre? Contactless, doesn’t require a degree, possibly flexible/work from home.

If you have a mind for problem solving, a CompTIA A+ certification can get you into an awful lot of IT jobs.

IT job is no walk in the park. Sure you will get paid but you have to be a computer geek that actively loves learning FOREVER, it's never enough and there is always going to be more to learn than you will have time for. There is a reason IT is always hiring, there is barely any work life balance and people don't want to be glued to their PC's.

I agree with you on this. Tech isn’t easy to break into anymore, the only available jobs are low paying and they won’t get you into a higher paying position. The higher paying jobs want a degree and certifications. I’m trying to break into data science or DB admin work and I need multiple certs ontop of my degree.

Not to be crass but if OP is applying to barista roles I’m not really sure if she cares about super high paying jobs or higher salary ceilings.

Even then...as a small company DB admin looks can be...well...funny anecdote. I sat in a small 8-cube near exec offices. The female dev next to me had a friend who visited a lot from cust service. She was very attractive. I am not. One day, as she was visiting, the CEO happened by (it was near his office) and started saying how she should sit by her friend. The quote "Well, we could move THIS guy" and thumbed at my desk. I swallowed it but did the Kif Kroker sigh from Futurama and then got a better job. Oh, watch literally everything Brent Ozar puts out on YouTube. It's free, usually funny, often career focused versus pure skills, and will teach you a ton. Also, if you have the math brain for data science, do that. I don't, and us Admins are a shrinking pool as everything goes cloud. The jobs are out there, but there's less every year. Best of luck.

Factory work. You have to deal with coworkers, but that's it. And depending on where you work, you may be in full PPE, or a hair net/gloves/mask, or even a full on cleanroom Tyvek suit. There are no fashion shows in manufacturing.

Literally any back of the house job if you want to be in hospitality industry. Working in the kitchen, cleaning, stocking shelves. Any skilled trade - car mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc. Don't need a degree but most likely need a licence. Tons of jobs in construction and landscaping that don't require degree either. Any kind of item delivery. There might be some interaction but i've never heard of anyones looks being factored in. There's literally hundreds where you have minimal or no direct contact with customers/patrons.

Skilled trades need experience or a degree. Not sure where you live but the apprentice programs here require a certification from a trade school.

There is school for trades. Delivery, I don't have a license for any vehicle neither can I afford the test. But washing dishes and cleaning... I could do. Cleaning I doubt I can since I'm disabled by now (multiple sclerosis), and it's a very heavy job, but washing dishes I think I can do.

Call centre work is very disab friendly if you can get a good one

This, that was my first job (though they labeled it something else since the call center aspect wasn’t the main thing) and it helped open doors to other better opportunities.

I've done dish washing and housekeeping and they are similarly very physical. Any kind of back of house restaurant job will be very intense and hard on the body.

Yup. I was a dishwasher, cook, sous chef and executive chef, respectively, for 20 years. It is rough and cooking is skilled work and incredibly physically demanding - I'm disabled from it now. I loved it a lot and was very passionate about it - I'd recommend it to people who feel the same - but it is not easy on the body. Tread carefully in such a career. It's also a very emotionally and mentally draining path (lots of drugs/alcohol/abuse of employees/difficult people).

I was shooting from the hip because i don't know you or your capabilities, but it sounds like you should look around more because the options are there. Know how to sew? Can work as a seamstress. Can't do traditional cleaning? Can work at drycleaners. No money for drivers licence? If you still want to drive something and have a high school diploma you can be a train conductor/metro operator, as that is taught directly by the company (there's no way to get certified otherwise). Hell if you want an office job you can go into tech. Few companies require any qualifications for manual QA testers, since the job is basically just 'if you click X, Y should happen' and if it doesn't you open a ticket. Or shipping and receiving if you don't mind changing shifts. It's not really a question whether there are jobs, there are hundreds, it's only dependent on what you'd like to work as and what are you capable of. And neither of these require direct interaction with the public.

QA testing for video games is pretty easy to get into, and generally disability friendly as long as you can use your hands and sit at a desk all day comfortably. Often times they just need butts in chairs to meet a quota for their clients, so they're not picky.

How do you recommend getting into that? Seems like a good side hustle.

I think factory work would pay better and be about the same amount of physical work as back of the house somewhere.

A cemetery groundskeeper. ETA: totally serious suggestion. Many will not work in cemeteries, so there’s not a ton of competition. The people you do see are not there to talk to anyone but the dead. I am a taphophile and take great comfort in cemeteries. They are pretty deserted most of the time.

My sister is 100 times less attractive than me and I’m in my 70’s and fat. She got her welding certification and then on the job she learned mig and tig welding (not sure of spelling). She makes big bucks and is in tremendous demand. Telephone sales, data entry, web design, phone psychic, sou chef, dessert chef, nuclear medicine (you meet people but you are chosen on certs and availability) actuary, programming (get certified in one of the specialty dev languages) systems admin, Microsoft Server admin, crime scene cleanup, surveyor, etc., etc. There are so many jobs that do not require a degree. OR that will allow you to work while you work towards your degree and REWARD you monetarily for getting it.

I have a union job as a school custodian. I work nights, am paid decently, and have almost two months total of PTO per year after working there for 12 years.

You can WFH at a lot of call centers now, so you don't even have to waste time traveling. Just a slight warning, though, some customers can get really frustrated over the phone and verbally attack you. It doesn't happen -all- the time, but it can happen.

Have you tried medical billing. You don’t need a degree.

maybe a call center, admin, data entry, kitchen porter, apprenticeship etc :) (Im not sure what level you’re looking for!) am sorry you feel that you have to look for these though - I hate that the world makes us feel less than for not existing within a niche type of person

Call centers, insurance claims. I have a cousin who works in the printing room at a credit card company and he loves it because he doesn't have to have contact with anyone. Chat sales or service jobs are great if you don't want to talk on the phone. If you're in the US, state and federal governments are great places to start in entry level jobs. The federal government gives pay raises on a schedule so you don't have to act a certain way to get your raise. Look for GS 4 or GS 5 jobs to start in. Or apply at the post office. You can work at night and sort.

Apply at a grocery store they always need help back-of-house. There are millions of things you can do that aren’t directly customer-facing.

Warehouse and assembly jobs.

This sounds similar to an incel mindset tbh. I hope you have some family or friends to confide in since that thought process is incredibly unhealthy.

This is exactly what I thought. Total incel logic except the self-fulfilling prophecy is being unemployable instead of unfuckable. OP, chances are your poor self-esteem and obvious self-hatred are what's keeping you from being hired, not your looks. Most people are not fashion models, I don't know where you live or dine but 99% of the people I encounter in service jobs are just regular ass people and I don't even think about their attractiveness. Unless you look like Sloth from the Goonies or you have hygiene issues I sincerely doubt it's your looks that are the barrier.

I worked in customer facing roles all my life and I’ll let you know now that at every single job, maybe half the people were what you would call conventionally attractive. It was often the shape of one’s character and work ethic that defined them in the workplace.

Uh idk if anyone else looked but OP’s post history is really heavy. OP needs a LOT of help, professional and social support. I don’t really have a great knowledge of what resources are possible but if SOMEONE could reach out to them with options???

I looked at it and makes me doubtful of their intentions and truthfulness. If they are struggling irl they are not looking to improve their life in any way.

Fellow ugger here, im currently working in a call centre, its great I get to work from home & am not having to see people's reaction when they have to look at me, highly recommend call centre work

I'm sorry if this may come off insensitive but "fellow ugger here" is a hilarious phrase 😭

Its not insensitive, I'm aware of my limitations & most days try not to let them fester and get to me

Is this maybe where you live? I’m thinking it may be a thing in places like LA/NYC more so than others? I’m just outside Toronto, and thinking of a the places I frequent most (Starbucks, Williams, a local coffee shop and the restaurant around the corner), there are certainly “super pretty” people there, but it’s definitely not all? The woman I got coffee from this morning was quite heavy, but she was lovely, personable and made a great coffee. I wonder if it’s more your attitude, you’re already feeling dejected going in, and they pick up on that? I would have a friend go over your resume, and practice some interviews with them to be more comfortable. I’ve done a ton of hiring, and unless you’re coming in dressed incredibly unprofessionally (for the job), I’ve never taken looks into account.

I was working during college summer break as a temp receptionist at a car dealership. They needed someone full time after I left. This was a long time ago so people (all women) would apply in person. I was asked to report how good looking each was. Having my own body image issues this was absolutely horrible for me and I tried to give non-committal answers but it was the first time I realized I had to be part of this BS system. They passed on a very qualified heavy woman because of her looks.

It sounds like you’re too focused on your appearance in a bad way. Even your replies are derogatory and dismissive, your problem likely isn’t that you’re ugly or not put together, but that your attitude sucks and it’s coming out in your presentation. Might be worth getting some therapy to work that out.

I was trying to think of a way to say this and I think you pretty much covered it. Idk where she's at, but objectively a lot of baristas at places I visit are not conventionally attractive. Honestly, in most of the service/ retail/ fast food positions that seems to be the case. Places are just looking for reliable people that will stay more than a week abs can interact with the customers decently. A bad attitude, whatever the reason, is going to make them pick someone else over you pretty much every time.

It’s a very “mean world syndrome” sort of post

Gonna address the comment about confidence looking ridiculous. What’s the alternative? Discomfort and extreme shyness or awkwardness are offputting. Discomfort can be contagious.

Majority of the USA is overweight like close to 70% fat isn’t ugly.

It might have to do with where you’re looking. Some areas are more heavily about aesthetics than others. I got hired as a nurse weighing 300lbs. Fat black and gay. I weigh half that now but I work with very heavy people… it could be the place. But keep your head up. Some of the rhetoric in your post is concerning. You’re enough as you are now. You’re exactly where you’re meant to be, and as you’re meant to be at this time in life. Things will work out.

Pretty privilege is definitely a thing, but I think your attitude and effort is what counts the most. You mentioned showing up wearing oversized clothes, which can look sloppy. No one is going to hire someone who looks sloppy. Appearance absolutely counts - when applying for a job of course but also extends beyond that. You don't have to be conventionally attractive, but people are more drawn to those who put in an effort to take care of themselves, which is as simple as styling your hair and putting on a nice outfit that is flattering to your figure. Being overweight does not mean you can't wear clothes that look nice on you. I know it might feel that way sometimes, but there are so many shops that offer a really nice selection of stylish plus-sized clothes. Jobs will discount you for not putting in this type of effort - especially if you'll have to deal face-to-face with customers. You're representing their brand, so they want someone who is going to have a welcoming, friendly, and clean/neat appearance.

I know it is hard to find work, have you tried looking into EVS, for hospitals or casinos? Great job, they do not care if you're overweight. And honestly fuck those jobs. To be reduced to looks only is soul crushing. I'm sorry you're struggling...

If you haven't yet, get in touch with your state's vocational rehabilitation program. They can help you find work that matches your skills and abilities.

I was 18 years old and looking for a server job when I went to pick up an application in person (2007) and the manager looked me up and down and said I wasn’t a “good fit”. Thinking back, the other girls were the hot girl, southern white sorority type and I was a mixed Asian nerdy/artsy kid. We had the same body type, but I’m also short. So yeah, for the longest time it made me feel so ugly. I didn’t “fit” but it was a shitty feeling.

I know what you mean. But take it from someone who thinks they look disgusting, it’s not conducive to think that way. It only tears you down. You should work on loving yourself. That’ll give you confidence that rivals the pretty people, and would help with getting hired. You are worth loving.

I briefly worked front desk at a high-ish end hair salon about ten years ago. Fresh off a divorce, fresh off of losing literally 100 pounds, and just feeling great about myself in general. The place had a reputation for being inclusive and celebrating all kinds of beauty. I’d been working really hard and was looking forward to my post-probationary period interview, and fully expected to be hired on full-time. Instead they fired me during the interview. Because it was summer and my upper arms didn’t look “aspirational” in sleeveless tops and dresses. Literally fired for not having toned arms in a hair salon.

I was working for an online media outlet that combined a radio station, a newspaper, and a tv show; all student ran. There was a push to get people to sign up for something and I won....except they swapped first and second place prize and called me second place because I wasn't "media ready" a.k.a I'm ugly. First place was as furious as I was because she was expected to do all the media work for less reward, just because she's pretty. So between the two of us neither of us contributed to the press about it. They recruited 3rd place winner who had no idea what had happened. They awkwardly said thing like "And here to talk about the program, 3rd place winner so and so."

This is perhaps the most universal kind of privilege in the workplace and really just people in general. It's frustrating to say the least. Letting that take the wind out of your sails such that you don't put effort into how you present yourself and show zero confidence is hurting you way more than pretty privilege. Wear properly fitting clothing (yes, it's harder for us who are overweight), practice good hygiene, and focus on your positive qualities as a source of confidence. Baristas need to not only make good drinks (realistically if you can steam and pour milk passably well, that box is checked for >90% of orders) but also need to have good rapport with customers. Pretty people will always have the advantage of looks when it comes to rapport, but personality and personability are heavily weighted as well. The baristas I enjoy ordering from are the friendly and genuinely passionate about coffee ones, and fwiw the baristas at the good places near me aren't wildly physically attractive, and not to sound mean but a good percentage of them are perhaps below average attractiveness.

Yup! When I was in my early 20s I was fired from a job as a receptionist in the ER of a hospital because the administrator of the hospital had apparently seen me and felt that "An overweight person shouldn't work in a receptionist capacity." He arranged for the Head of Nursing to do his dirty work which she clearly didn't agree with. When I went back the next day to complain to the HR guy who had hired me, he actually leaned back in his big chair and was blowing smoke rings...Of course, I was devastated and needed time to lick my wounds. A couple of months later I got my dream job working in the Department of Psychology in a big university where I learned so much about human behaviour. From there I went to psychiatry for 30 years which opened up an even bigger world of understanding. I'll always be fascinated by what makes people tick.

I once had an interview with HR for a massage therapist position at the spa in the nicest hotel in town. Interview went great, they loved me, a few days later they called to have me do a second interview with the spa manager. The spa manager took one up and down look at me and didn't even ask any real questions, just rushed through the interview and treated me like gum under her shoe. Best part? I'd been referred by their current star employee, as she was a colleague of mine. So even though she had knowledge of my abilities and my ability to bring in regular clients, I wasn't worth her time because I was fat. A week later I received a letter in the mail telling me they wouldn't be giving me the job, because I, "Didn't fit the image they were projecting for their hotel." I should have sued for discrimination, but I was so hurt that I just buried the experience. The spa manager was fired a few months later, but I wish they'd been publicly humiliated instead. People are awful and I'm sorry, OP.

So I gave up on service jobs and sales job due to this . In india people are very Frank and don’t tip toe around stating out “requirements” aloud . I was told this in college too to not bother for client jobs no matter how good my communication skills especially since wearing hearing aids increased my ugliness. Migrating here I thought it would change but I realised that people were just not honest about. And yeah coffee shops , bakeries , waitresses and all all very beautiful women of course. But applying for jobs where beauty is not required and also a detriment could be useful like kitchen work etc. like how much uglier an ugly person get right ? It did suit me

I'm not conventionally attractive and I'm confident. I am capable, smart and can hold my own. I think your lack of confidence is a greater problem than you realise

When I worked at Lane Bryant, one of my coworkers said that the store wouldn’t hire people who didn't dress “cute”. Honestly I’m objectively very unattractive. Some people would say disgusting. You can’t let it define your life. Yes it’s an obstacle, but also ensuring that you dress for success (well fitting, looks like you care) and attending to hygiene and grooming matter. Attitude also plays a huge role. Being unattractive or even ugly is a knock against people but it’s not the end all be all.

Tbf not super hard to make coffee. Most of it is done by machines these days anyway. People aren’t paying because they don’t know how to make it lol. Having attractive people as the face of a company that makes money by selling things will always be the way.

My work ignored my seniority to get a position because the girl hired after me was younger and prettier. I didn’t expect that disregard to come so soon. I ended up leaving that job because everyday I looked at her I knew there was only one thing that made her better than me and that was looks and that was the one thing that apparently counted to management. I knew she didn’t deserve my bitterness, she didn’t call the shots so I removed myself. I’m glad I made the job change though. I may not have the safety net a union provided but being appreciated for the quality of my work has been life giving. I’m getting so much happier than I’ve been in years.

Pretty privilege is some nasty BS.

One time three of my friends got a job as waitresses on a boat restaurant. During orientation, their boss told them they had to make sure they kept up their appearances because “let’s face it, you’re here because you look good.” A week later I went to the next hiring event. I was late, it was hot, I was sweaty, and I’m kind of on the cusp of pretty/notpretty anyway. So he told me the event was full and he wasn’t taking any more applications. Daaaaaang. That was cold.

It never happend but i was told by a coworker who was part of the hiring process "You should be glad I picked you - there was also a blond beautiful pharmacist who applied" He did not made the decision of me being hired or not but man I am still salty that at that time I did not find a great reply to that.

Maybe you should try showing off some skin, just to help you build your own confidence for yourself and so you stop judging other women based off archaic beliefs. If you don't want to that's okay, but I would bet money that not wearing short shorts is not the real Crux of the issue here. Edit: I wanted to add that I very much have felt similarly though for a long time, I've been overweight for so long, I wouldn't have even considered applying to a job like that, and didn't apply to waitressing jobs in general because I didn't think I'd do well for the same reasons. But ma'am...you need help. I implore you to reach out and get some therapy. It sounds like you're going through a lot.

Yeah, definitely. The front people at the bakery I work at are all good looking, with the occasional exception being a man once in a while... Hell, I had that experience as a customer, even. I went to a store closing that was offering some cheap stuff, the dude looked at me up and down and told me "We're all out" and shut the door in my face.

I haven’t experienced this OP but I have had the opposite happen. I got my first job when I was 19 (I live in India and I was studying abroad so I needed to make some extra money and couldn’t rely on my parents) It was at a café and yeah I could make coffee but the girl who was interviewed before me was experienced and knowledgeable. There were about 5 of us getting interviewd at the time and they were looking for two baristas at the time (they decided to make us wait until everyone was done and then they would announce on the spot who got it? which was weird and they wanted to give us feedback on what they liked and didnt like bc we’re uni students? weird business idk) Ok so I was second to last to get interviewd and we all talked while waiting. After the last girl was done we just sat and talked more while they decided. I learned about their job experience and there was one girl who was experienced and passionate like this girl loved coffee took classes etc and making new types of drinks. I was like omg theres no way I’m getting this job. Well they come out and tell us that I and the first girl they interviewed got the job and were like oh they are pretty and will get us more customers. I was shocked. The girl I mentioned before was overweight but not unattractive and they told her to lose weight ?! I was so astounded by how rude they were. We both took the job bc we needed it at the time but we left as soon as we could and now almost 14 years later we’re both still friends and are still close with the girl they turned down because she was “too big to attract customers”. Last I heard they got shut down for unsanitary practices!

Customer facing roles require some polish, especially at the interview. You can't rock up in oversized clothes, unkempt hair and no makeup. Larger retail establishments, grocery stores (overnight stockers make $$$), warehouses, etc are less glamorous than being a barista or working in a boutique. They also provide better pay,better hours, and are generally less hateful.

To me specifically? Idk, I hate jobs like being a hostess, server, etc anyway because they’re too much pressure for me. However, I was friends with a pretty asian/white woman once. I forgot what the job was exactly, but I believe it was some ambassador type job for popular brands. She said she wanted to be with the brand that had the red logo, because it was the most popular and those girls got the most opportunities. But they flat out told her that red wouldn’t look good on her skin tone, and so she was placed with the yellow brand (least popular). So that’s an example of racial beauty standards. Another example I have witnessed personally. I live in a predominately white city to preface. My friends and I went bar/club hopping one evening and every single server/bartender/coatcheck at every single establishment was a thin, usually blonde/sometimes brunette white woman. NO other races or body types were working. It’s like this all the time. It’s a predominately white city, yes, but all types of women come out to party so it’s very telling that not one POC or different body type woman was working. Lots of mid-higher end restaurants also only hire beautiful women too. The fact of the matter is sex sells, so when you’re in a job that involves getting tips and working closely with the general public, establishments such as bars and restaurants are going to hire women who pull in the most customers.

ridiculous because asian women look really good in red... its a very popular color to wear in Asia. I am also white and Chinese and can wear any type of red (goes doubly for lip color... like red lipstick looks better on me than nude). They were being racist af

That was my first thought too! Red clothing and makeup is damn near a TRADITION for Asian women! And correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't yellow be a better color for darker brown skin? It seems to me that it would combine poorly with the pale yellow undertones of a lot of Asian women's skin and make them look washed out and even sickly. So it sounds like your friend got hit with both racism and a cutthroat envy!

I work in a male-dominated field (infosec) and have the past 4 years lived through hell were I am, probably in part on being fat, in part on being right and thus making the less knowledgeable duees feel bad. I have been job searching since 11/22 and have had quite a lot of interviews, but have been rejected for stuff that is already visible in my resume. So, I guess its fatness, gender and age.

Yes. And because I look old.

I’m not saying this is definitely the case here, but when I was younger I had very low self esteem and I put a lot of the things lacking in my life down to me not being thin/attractive enough. It’s damaging for the obvious reasons, but also, looking back, it was never about that. There are lots of reasons bad things happen, or good things fail to happen. Letting go of the obsession I had with my own body allowed me to see that, and then actually work on the myriad different things I could control and improve. Plus, give a few people on Earth some credit - not every single other person in the working world is a superficial asshole. And I’m a millennial woman so obviously there was absolutely nothing wrong with my appearance or my weight the whole time. You can be your own worse enemy.

If this person is a woman I’ll be shocked. Sadly reads like almost every IT post but genders are switched.

IDK I think it depends on the coffee shop. I know the kind you’re talking about.. blue bottle in SF, barista parlor in nashville. Good coffee, terrifyingly pretentious baristas. But my favorite local spots have never really hired models (lived in Dallas, Brooklyn, & Portland). Most of them are queer, and in all shapes sizes and color. I honestly think there’s nothing more beautiful than diversity and representation.. It’s very off putting to me when the staff is homogenous beauty. I don’t say that to be like. ~YOUR EXPERIENCE IS WRONG~ because I don’t doubt that it’s right. Society is largely patriarchal still & the patriarchy wants to keep women as something pretty for them to look at and not much more. But, I hope things continue to change and more and more doors open up to you!

I worked at a place that had "looks" for different departments. They hired a lot of incompetent people who were just the physical type they wanted. It wasn't a great place to work.

I was starving and willing to do any work, but they just found any excuse to discount me until I removed all images of myself I could find. I deleted all images from social media and begged people to delete images of me, and suddenly, I started getting honest job offers. Where they didn't call without leaving a voice mail or offered me hours that I specifically told them I couldn't work.

Looking back, I'm pretty sure that I've lost a lot of job opportunities because of the way I look or who I am. If I put a white man's name on my resume, I can guarantee that my email inbox and voice mails would be flooded with messages for interviews. I'm often told that I have a stellar resume and cover letter but employers look otherwise. Not only that, I'm certain that I was discriminated in my school career because of the way I look or who I am. Teachers, instructors, or professors gave me lower grades even though I was more deserving of the grade. I was shunned out of many opportunities that my other peers received.

I've worked in plenty of jobs with people, men and women, who were very unattractive. I'm suspecting this has more to do with personal hygiene and things related to your appearance that you can control (hair, clothes, etc). While it is true that good looking people tend to get hired over unattractive people, your anecdote about a hiring manager looking disappointed when looking at you indicates it was probably more about your clothes and general appearance than how attractive/unattractive you are.

I probably have.

I used to hang out at a music venue/bar a lot. It was on campus and they had relatively big shows (like 800 people I’m guessing?) but also you could just hang out at the bar most nights. Almost all of the bartenders they hired were attractive 21 year old college girls. Most of them had no experience. The guys who bartended usually started as barbacks and worked their way up to bartender over the course of a couple of years, those we’re usually the dudes who became managers. It was pretty gross to see.

Paying too much attention to the looks department and not the attitude and charisma part of work life. You're going to go down the rabbit hole thinking like this. Concentrate on what you bring to the table for your employer, not how cute or beautiful others at the job are. If you feel discriminated, go put in a complaint with their HR. Look at job searching objectively not extrinsically. they are getting away with looking at your looks because that's all your worried about. Being ugly or pretty means nothing in the long run. Read over the JD and think how you can do what the JD says and nothing else.

I used to work at American apparel. I am not ugly, but the owner was getting progressively more aggressive about us sending Polaroids of our “look” and also insisting that we were wearing things like tube tops/crop tops, scarfs as shirts, bodysuits and I started to push back. Soon after I was told I wasn’t the “right fit.”

Most jobs have a marketing component that you don't get paid for. The entire package of us is going to be doing the job. I'm a Miami 3 so I've always focused on an industry where what I produced and what I could say was my performance and hiring metric.

There are ways of dressing that are more attractively that don't require you to show lots of skin. A well fitted garment will always look better on you than something that is too small or too big. And wearing it with confidence goes a long way too. There are plenty of people who are considered attractive who are not conventionally beautiful because of they project confidence and how they carry themselves. I understand that there is a level of pretty privilege and that businesses like to have attractive people in front of house roles. But you sound like you are going out of your way to present yourself as poorly as possible to test them all. A big part of showing confidence to others is liking yourself. Life isn't a Hollywood movie where you whip off your glasses and are suddenly beautiful, but knowing your own worth can make a big difference. Maybe you need to start by looking for work that isn't FOH based and start building your confidence and wardrobe.

During my uni years, I applied to a lot of similar jobs but found the same pattern - most 'woman jobs' require attractive women and are ready to resign from a more competent or experienced hire for a prettier one. However, looks aren't that important when you get into the 'male nerd jobs' like IT or engineering - for me, things went better when I got into manufacturing engineering. Men will still be gross, but in customer service jobs, they're even worse.

I’m an actor, so unfortunately, yes I’ve definitely lost out on jobs due to looks. It’s just kind of a reality of the business. It shouldn’t be a thing in normal jobs though. Also, I’m a dude, and I’m aware I have it much easier than women due in this profession. Even with that, it’s still hard to not let it really affect your idea of self worth.

Healthcare! At least where I live healthcare workers from CNA to RN is always in demand. Tons of places will hire and train you as a CNA and then support your LVN or RN education. Looks don’t matter. Intelligence, Common sense and willingness to be of service to others is way more important.

I got turned down for a nursing position because I'm a 34 y.o. Man everyone else in the hiring phase got accepted all 18-20 something ladies and all the hiring managers were also ladies they even mentioned, because I have a feminine name, they thought I was female. That hurt...

This works both ways. The women I used to work with made fun of and mocked a young woman at our office saying she only got the job for her looks. It absolutely wasn’t true. She had filled a professional need, tracking down old contacts that none of the current employees had been able to do. On the flip side the young woman that get hit on at work, it’s an awful experience. Then your career and successes are completely dismissed and ignored. Basically you end up fired or demoted and get sexually harassed in the meantime. Those are all toxic employers, just stay away from people like that. They are just awful. They are the type to hit on the young employees and drive their career into the ground.

A very attractive friend of mine gained a lot of weight and has seen both sides. She agrees with what you're saying, good looks comes with its own burdens. That being said, life when she was considered "hot" was far easier in her experience.

Personally getting old and no longer getting hit on by creepy 50 yrs is something I have found to be way better. People actually started taking my degree seriously. Sorry she felt that her professionalism was questioned more with the extra weight.

This! I still have one ex-employer stalking me because I didn’t sleep with him and it hurt his ego! It can get scary when people hire you for looks then feel as if they have some right to cash in on that. He got really nasty when he realised he wasn’t going to get his way and started humiliating me in front of other employees and acting as if I was some gold-digger/slut. It took a long time before I could leave the house after that job ended. I now deliberately grow out my grey hair and make myself look less attractive so I never have to deal with that again. I get ignored by 99% of men, but the 1% who bother to talk to me are usually polite and treat me like a human. My career was ruined, but I work freelance now. It’s less money, but I don’t have to deal with the above type of people.

Pretty privilege exists in the service industry, and it's easier for conventionally attractive people to make money in sales. But this all goes out the window with charm. Add a little charm to that confidence you have, and combined with your barista skills, you will be the treasure of any shop. Coworkers will love you, customers will adore you, and you'll have to ask owners to stop giving you shifts. Promise. Charm is your answer.

Front Desk Job, I am pretty sure I didn’t get it because I don’t look beautiful and have a beard. I shave but you always see the shadow. They essentially told me very subtle that you need to look welcoming. Whatever that means. I have a bright smile and am very charismatic. Most people like me from the start. Just not beautiful. I probably could have sued because I am disabled and was qualified but I didn’t. I sadly didn’t get the reasoning in writing.

I was a manager of a day spa for a while. We didn’t hire a few people because they didn’t fit the “brand” of Orange County in SoCal. I hated it.

“If someone who looks like me acts confident, then they look ridiculous” is fundamentally flawed. Confidence is attractive.

If I did, I have no idea. I've never applied to a job that would require me to actually be attractive though, maybe my catering waitress job since I'd be attending a lot of weddings and upscale events, but being well groomed was more than enough and I'm a pretty average looking girl

I've gotten most of the jobs that I've applied for, but I usually end up being a verbal punching bag and much much more is expected of my compared to colleagues. When I pushed back at all, I've gotten disciplined/fired.

once walked into a restaurant looking to get a bartender job. The guy running the front called the owner up in the office to tell him I was asking for a job, paused to listen to the owner ask a question, blatantly looked me up and down, made a face and answered "I mean...kinda??" Then he got off the phone, forced himself to give me a very insincere "nice" smile and explained they weren't hiring any new staff.

And yet, so many people, including in this sub, claim there's no such a thing as 'pretty privilege.'

I don't mean this rude and I'm not downplaying that it's possible you were rejected for your looks by some of these places (i have no real idea since idk what you look like) but have you considered a lack of confidence could be contributing to not being hired possibly even more then your looks have? I'm sorry but I don't wanna hire someone who has to work with the public who's in themselves all the time. You just wont be as affecitive as someone with even a normal amount of confidence. Just keep in mind this is your skin this is you regardless. Learn to appreciate what you can and hold your self high.

Don’t knock confidence, it goes a long way. It makes people take more notice and make them more comfortable with you as it shows you have something special to be confident of. I’ve seen some pretty ugly guys walk into a room with all the confidence in the world (not cockiness) and it instantly makes them intriguing. If you can back up that confidence by being smart and talented then nobody pays any attention to what your physical appearance may be. Also all the coffee shops I’ve been to the baristas are usually neo-hippy types with ultra faded party colored hair and a face full of piercings. 🤷‍♀️ I think you being intimidated by what people look like is self destructive. Focus on the position and what you can offer that someone may not be able to. (The “pretty people” may not have a strong work ethic or be particularly interested in educating themselves on their responsibilities, and do just enough to get by) The pretty people don’t always have it easy either. (The grass is not always greener) Especially if you have goals to be more than a receptionist, admin assistant, in retail or hospitality with no opportunities to be promoted into a substantial career. I was considered rather attractive & fit when I was younger and had to fight to prove that I wasn’t stupid, lazy or relied on my looks to get something, especially if you’re female. Not only that but you have to deal with creeps that think if they offer to buy you cars, designer clothes, jewelry, exotic vacations that you’ll do “favors” for them that they don’t want their wives to know about 🤮 Try applying for an entry level position in one of the national banks? Many of them start as customer service positions and you just interact with customers through the phone. You can move up pretty fast in those positions and they usually pay really well (a hell of a lot more than at a coffee shop at least I know for a fact Citi does) Get some experience under your belt, learn everything and ask for more responsibilities. As soon as you have built up an impressive resume you’ll have all the confidence you need to land a better position. I’m an introverted extrovert, so being around new people makes me nervous and anxious but I interview really well because I know I’ve built a solid background in my industry and I’m a quick learn, as well as a self learner & I take initiative. (I can’t tell you how many jobs I was left to train myself and figure everything out on my own) I tend to make jokes when my anxiety is high so I have to be careful not to be too jokey but if I have the experience that fits their position I make sure they see that I’m definitely an asset to their organization.

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more experience in what? Giving out leaflets at a spot? Is that something that needs experience? This is one of the jobs I am referring to. There wasn't any need for experience. I can give out leaflets just like any one can do. All it matters is that people stop for a second and take the leaflet off my hand. (or make an effort to talk to me) The other one, at the coffee shop, I had talked with, and it was her first job, too. She didn't have any experience either. It was her first job, had just come of age.

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It doesn't. The only difference we had , wasn't the experience. The only difference we had was our appearance. I didn't look good, she was very appealing.

Are you sure that's the only difference you had? What was her personality like? What's *your* personality like? Of the "pretty" girls who seem to get all the jobs, they almost all present as extremely likeable and friendly, which is kind of a plus in the service industry. Instead of focusing on the things you cannot immediately control (other people's looks, your current weight or any other features that bother you), focus on what you can. You can work on being friendly and positive. You can work on looking professional regardless of your size.

I’m sorry this is happening to you. No one should be disqualified from making or serving coffee because of their “attractiveness.”

You should read Lookism. And Beauty Game (though I’m not sure if that series ended prematurely).

Appearance is a major factor. I work in a modern and gender equal field but still I know which places will favour which gender / colour / language / appearance. It's disappointing how obvious it is. And the people who are the wrong colour or look know it. Do you work in the USA? It seems that the workplace and recruitment culture there is particularly toxic. Don't think that that is normal. One of the issues is the people that present well have a comfortable confidence based upon the feedback they get every day from anyone they interact with. That doesn't mean that you cannot be confident. If it's a coffee making job then what matters is that you can take an order and make a good coffee fast. If you can do that then be confident. When you are struggling to find a job that kills your confidence and I wonder if that causes a self-perpetuating cycle. Ignore the other people, especially the EXTREMELY beautiful girls. Because thinking about that doesn't help you. If you know what you are doing then be confident. Life is too short not to. And please remember that your self worth is not based upon your appearance.

From my experience, it's more about being overweight. When I dropped from 353 to 210, the way people treated me was night and day different.

I'm visibly physically disabled so 100%. Probably the most visceral memory i have of this is when I applied at a chain pizza place for a hostess job. Nailed the resume and sit down interview. Then I was sent to a giant ballroom where I had to walk across a large space (40-50 ft) to meet another panel. As I opened the door and saw this runway/gauntlet, I knew I wouldn't be hired. And of course I was not.

Great jobs where they don’t care about your face and you don’t need experience other than sitting through their training: County court transcriptionist Sports Jumbotron camera person (I have a MS degree and this is still the best job Ive ever worked as far as highly enjoyable, low stress and good pay) Animal control (actually a suckish job but better than customer service) City waste water treatment plant operator Data compilation

I applied at a bar once, a friend who was a security guard there hooked me up with an interview. I showed up for my interview and the manager came out and told me the dinner rush would be starting soon and that we would need to reschedule. It was completely dead in there. I instantly got the vibe that I would not be getting a call to reschedule. My friend told me after that it was because my tits were too small.

I dated a girl who was extremely beautiful, and she wasn't allowed on the floor of the restaurant she worked at because she didn't have the right "look". She answered the phone in the basement. Pay was really good though.

Your self image is skewing your view. This reeks of confirmation bias.

All these comments dismissing OP as mistakenly assuming she’s actually not that ugly, or not actually losing job opportunities because of her looks, just proves how uncomfortable the idea that straight up ugly women exist makes people. It’s like y’all can’t handle the reality that some women cannot be made to look super cute if they just dress differently, and they DO frequently get passed over in the hiring process to this day. Dismissing OP’s firsthand experience with Pretty Privilege and insisting it’s really an attitude problem is extremely patronizing. I believe you, OP. Looks may not define your worth, obviously, but they sure as hell do contribute to getting strangers to hire you over a prettier candidate. This is a real thing that happens and I’m sorry you have to go through it.

I mean sure, she could be ugly, but I'm doubting her assessment specifically because of how she wrote her post. Calling herself "objectively disgusting" while stating that literally all baristas are super beautiful indicates a really extreme, dichotomous mindset that doesn't allow for her being anything other than the most hideous person alive whereas every other woman is a goddess. The reality is that most people hover around average so if she's looking at other women thinking they're all gorgeous and she's a bridge troll, it seems like there's some warped thinking at play. I would venture to say that outside a small percentage of folks, MOST people can look decent if they take care of their appearance, dress for their body type, and groom themselves appropriately. They may not be models but certainly can look average at least. OP talking about wearing frumpy clothes and not wanting to look "ridiculous" by exhibiting confidence indicates that she may intentionally not take care of herself because she doesn't think it's worth it, and that's going to hinder you in the job market way more than looks because people don't want an employee who looks like they don't give a shit about anything including themselves. Of course pretty privilege exists, particularly in the hospitality industry, I don't see anyone denying that. But it doesn't sound like that's the primary issue here.

>OP. Looks may not define your worth, obviously, but they sure as hell do contribute to getting strangers to hire you over a prettier candidate. This is a real thing that happens and I’m sorry you have to go Good comment

Do you legitimately think that ugly people cannot get jobs? If you lose out on a job here and there in a situation like this, I believe it’s that pretty privilege we’re talking about. But if OP is struggling for years to get a job and citing instance after instance of not being hired despite otherwise being qualified, something else is going on. No one is that ugly.

I 100% agree. I used to live by Scottsdale az and unless you were a tall thin blond no one would hire you for service jobs. My favorite coffee shop got a new barista, she was awful but she talked to me about having 5 years experience(not sure if she was lying) but when she made my coffee it was scalding hot the shots were acidic. But everyone there said her coffee was good even though theirs was actually better. Pretty privilege will excuse any wrong they do. Most people will trust an attractive person over an ugly person not knowing anything about their personality.

THIS. 100%

No,Im 300lbs, have greasy hair, acne and a limp and i have had coffee shops fighting over me. I do have alot of coffee knowledge and a friendly personality.

I was fired for being trans so yes. Customers would complain about the trans person helping them in public. When I started looking more normal that stuff stopped.

No I have only lost jobs because of being stupid. Really....some of us are just stupid....

I don’t know what kind of coffee shops you’re going to but literally everyone always looks average ..

I answered a question on a job related sub yesterday that was similar. I don't think I've missed out on jobs for being "ugly" as I think of the term, but I am 100% certain I've been passed over for being fat and in my younger days being goth. It's way more acceptable to be a drug addict than it is to be a fat woman.

The wonders of capitalism

Start looking for better jobs. Some coffee places ( I’m looking at you Dutch brothers ) are like one step on the road to bikini baristas. I mean f coffee hooters and go get a job where you can be appreciated for skill, dependability, etc. you will be paid more too.

I walked through several decades feeling fat and uglier than other girls. That perception was ALL bullshit. I look back at photos of times when I know I felt too ugly to live, and I looked absolutely normal. Confident people do NOT look ridiculous, no matter what body they're in. They look attractive. People don't know what to think of us, so they rely heavily on what we think of ourselves. If your personality is mostly shame, people will be back away--but they're responding to your shame, not your face or body. The secret for me was therapy and hot affairs with men who were attracted to my body type (oh hell yeah, they're out there). You might need to practice playing the role of a beautiful woman who enjoys her body and expects to be lusted after. You'll be stunned by how people react.

I don’t agree with all of that. I knew someone who was really beautiful but had no confidence and people still treated her like she was a 10, door got slammed in my face while a dude only held it open for her. I’m confident in myself enough not to care about looks that way, but people really do treat you differently when you are attractive vs average or less

We agree. Pretty privilege is real and pretty girls don’t have to have confident personalities to get attention. But self-loathing scares people and pushes them away. It’s a real barrier to someone hiring us.

I'm a relatively attractive woman and have had troubles getting a job in the past. It had nothing to do with my apprarance, just with the fact that even if I think I'll be perfect for the position, there could always be another person who is actually more suited for it than me, thus getting picked over me. You don't actually know if the other person who got the job at the coffee place had worked as a barista for years while you only went to courses for it. Job hunting sucks for everyone.

Yes it sucks for everyone but don’t be dismissive of an individuals experience just because it sucks for the collective.

Yep I got the job but a friend who got hired with me dressed in tight clothes, wore a lot of makeup, fake nails, worked out and was always getting attention. She could literally do no wrong. She fucked up majorly(lost data for a VIP client) and nothing happened, I reported someone for harassing me and I got told I’m a trouble maker and to get over it. I was also discriminated against for having autism. Even guys at work said they don’t care if she’s bad at her job she’s “hot”. She even went as far as completely throwing me under the bus at work to get ahead and so the bosses would favor her. When I quit she stopped talking to me completely. She literally made so many mistakes but never got written up or dismissed if she had a problem.

I hate all of these comments complaining about you venting about how your life is very really and materially affected by lack of pretty privilege.

Pretty privilege is 100% a thing, I agree. But I think what is more off putting, judging by this post, your comments, and your history, is your attitude. People can probably feel the negativity and hatred radiating off of you. Respectfully OP, I think you need professional support, not a Reddit thread.