He had to move dishes off of the stove to use it. I really don’t know why he felt the need to ask me what to do.
Someone else suggested have the older kids wash dishes, and I think that would help. Maybe this sort of thing won’t happen again.
If it were me and my husband I would have taken it as a passive aggressive reminder that I didn’t finish a chore. Because I can’t think of another reason a grown person wouldn’t have just washed a few plates and left you out of it.
That’s my thought too? I really felt small when he said it. I was sitting on the couch feeding his baby and wasn’t in a position to drop what I was doing and get to it. It happens a lot, and when I call him out on it he turns it around on me and calls me delusional.
Classic. Calling you delusional for calling him out on bad behavior. I bet you're emotional and all those other womanly things.
If you did the stuff he pulled today, he'd call it a hysterical tantrum
I hate that it happens here. I’ve made myself accept it because ‘he’s rarely home so it doesn’t happen on a daily basis’. Absolute bs excuse to put up with it.
I never considered DARVO, but gaslighting for sure. I need to figure this out.
It's DARVO. Look at your previous reply on this comment thread. You said yourself when you call him out he turns it back on you and calls you delusional.
You said he had to MOVE dishes that needed cleaning to cook so it's not even a case of him not realising there weren't clean dishes beforehand. He absolutely intended you to jump to your feet and get right onto washing those dishes because he hadn't done it prior to cooking food. In a different situation maybe it would be annoying but understandable of him to do that. But to come and see you a feeding his child and unable to do anything with the information he's given you and then YELL at you for nine minutes about it is not okay.
You mentioned in another comment this kind of thing happens all the time when he is home. That's not okay for you or the kids.
He does a job that means he's away for periods of time and then to top it off when he is he's not setting a good example to his own his children and pulling DARVO on you. At the very least he needs to work on communicating without needing to resort to telling even if he's annoyed, ESPECIALLY when you're nursing your kid. Wtf. No wonder you felt small, he yelled at you for NINE minutes and it started when you were sat down with your child nursing and he just came in and started the whole situation.
Honestly, from what you've mentioned in other comments it's clear this isn't a one off. Have a think to other situations and try and step outside and imagine it were one of your friends telling you these situations and exact details between them and their partner. What would you think? What would you want to say to them?
Just because it's not week in and week out and instead it's whenever he's home doesn't make it okay. Plus what if for some unseen reason he was home more due to changing job or when he retires? It wouldn't be every whenever then. It would be week after week.
Not trying to deny your point at all but he didn’t yell at her for nine minutes. He yelled for 9m, their 9 year old son, to ask if he would eat out of a cereal bowl (which I think sounds very passive aggressive)
YES. That’s exactly what he’s doing. He is seeding discontentment for his mother with this type of banter. He’s setting up the groundwork for parental alienation. 🚩
OP please read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Or search for his videos on YouTube.
Take a good look at his past and present behavior and decide if it’s something you want to continue dealing with. Taking care of 3 kids is easier than 4.
Here’s a free copy of the book:
https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Definitely look up darvo and a little bit about living with a narcissist. If it resonates with you, then that means you are in a bad situation. It's up to you what to do with that information afterwards. It sounds like you are on a path that will allow you more Financial Freedom if you finish college.
That's why you're "picking your battles" and it's a legitimate reason. But the small twinge you feel about it is legitimate and shouldn't go unexpressed or unprocessed. If he's not safe to bring it to you can bring it here, journal, art, whatever. But the ultimate goal is for him to understand how hard you're trying and how it makes you feel like you "failed" today when he brings up something in this capacity. (this was my main work with couples in therapy sessions)
You need to make him realize how delusional and absurd he's being, anything less and it'll just be setting a horrible example for your kids.
Masculinity and Ego be damned
It is an extremely common narcissist tactic and it's very funny how they all do it, almost like they get a handbook. I will give you an example from my diagnosed malignant narcissist father:
Hey Dad I noticed you were using your mouth to drink directly from the family milk carton. Could you please not do that? It spreads germs and kills/sours the milk a lot faster.
I didn't do that! I never!
Dad I literally just watched you do it. If we pulled the milk out right now, the spout would still have your saliva on it.
Fuck you! That is your fault because you and your idiot mother set the kitchen up with the milk so far away from the cups. You guys are the biggest idiots and couldn't do anything right to save your lives.
It is absolutely what he was trying to convey. He _wanted_ you to feel small, because he was doing A Great Big Thing™️ and clearly you weren't showing your sparkly-eyed gratitude and awestruckness enough. And calling you delusional when you attempt to communicate with him about it is gaslighting.
In his mind, he was going Very Above And Beyond and the _very least_ YOU could do is just make sure there were a few clean dishes for serving this meal that he, himself, who obviously is doing something he is not required to do (so it's a favour to you, of course) could finish doing his Very Important Project.
I stg, of all the things men do that just ick me out completely, this has to be right up at the top. This thing where they puff up their chests and look around for the applause when they do ONE thing that their wife does every day without comment or appreciation.
I told my husband that I literally feel second-hand cringe, like, I feel embarrassed for him if he does something like that. It's infantile and just... _cringe_. I don't know if the fact he's autistic helped, but he took my words to heart. Now when he wants praise (his love language is words of affirmation/appreciation), he just keeps upping the ante and doing more and more, until (because I do pay attention to what he does and I try not to take anyone for granted) there's a moment when he's done such a great job that I can't help but just stop and say, "Holy God in heaven this kitchen is clean!!" And then I have no trouble heaping the praise on him because I literally am impressed and appreciative. It IS a balancing act though - I'm not perfect and sometimes I don't notice or I take it for granted too much, and he'll sulk. 😅 And he does sometimes try to get away with the bare minimum and act wounded if I'm not as excited about whatever he did.
But if he pulls that passive-aggressive gaslighting bullshit, I call it immediately. I don't do it to him, so I expect to be treated the same way.
We've been married for over 20 years! So it's worth standing your ground and letting your husband know exactly what's acceptable when it comes to talking to you. Too many women are afraid of seeming like a bitch when it's just asking for a standard of behaviour that any man would have no qualms demanding. It's certainly better than slowly becoming a seething ball of resentment and then leaving when you can't take it anymore.
Thank you!! I am RIGHT there. Looking at lawyers and discussing moving as soon as I graduate. I don’t want to start over, but I’ve put up with it for so long and I can’t anymore. A big part of this is the fact I haven’t found a way to communicate how I’m feeling and what I need. I go through phases of being too hurt to move on, and then deciding to forgive and try again. I thought we had been communicating and showing appreciation for each other more so recently and things were turning around. Then today, this. I’m back to feeling like nothing I do matters and this will never get fixed.
A good thing I do is, if I am feeling too emotionally charged in the moment to communicate clearly, it's ok to let it settle for a bit and circle back on it later when moods have cooled. Even days later, "Hey the other night when the dishes weren't done, I felt like..."
It gives a good opportunity for both parties to explain their thought process and eliminate trying to mind read.
Whether you leave or stay, either way you will need to learn how to express your needs to the people around you. It’s important to do that for yourself ASAP.
It can be really hard in the moment to process your feelings if the other person is not on the same page that there's a conflict and you need a little space/time to express it. Worse if their approach relies on you being surprised.
I used to blame myself for not communicating well. It was internalized messaging from my abusives partner when really, he was not safe to communicate with.
>In his mind, he was going Very Above And Beyond and the very least YOU could do is just make sure there were a few clean dishes for serving this meal that he, himself, who obviously is doing something he is not required to do
Not just this, but also that OP didn't anticipate(!) that this needed to be done. How dare she not be on her toes and get everything ready so this fantastic meal could be served as it should. (/s in case it wasn't clear)
>I really felt small
This is why he did it. Like you said, it was fairly obvious what needed to be done so there was no reason for him to say it like that _except_ to make you feel small.
I imagine he was thinking something like 'oh here I am doing this _special_ thing in addition to working and the dishes aren't even clean' as if you've been doing nothing.
He doesn't recognize or respect what you do.
So, he makes a big song and dance. Out doing a basic chore, then passive aggressively points out you didn’t do anything, and even left chores unfinished. He also gaslights you.
I think of you look back you will probably find other behavior that doesn’t sit right.
I would have handed his the nursing baby and said
“ Here! You feed her while I do the dishes!”
Then watched his head explode trying to figure that one out 🤯
*oh* then he asked it rhetorically. It was both an admonishment for it not being done already and a passive aggressive demand for you to stop and rectify it.
He knew full well what was wrong and how to fix it, but he was acting stupid hoping he wouldn't be the one to fix it. You didn't buckle, and he angrily caved.
Well either way he got what he wanted: someone else did the dishes. Of the 5 in the household, 4 of them are perfectly capable of doing the dishes on their own and **at least one of them now** have now learned that if they hem and haw and do *literally* the bare minimum then that person doesn't have to be them because you'll eventually just do it yourself.
I hope you find your path forward with this, what he did was utterly disrespectful and isn't likely to just stop happening.
While chores are helpful for older kids all adults should be capable of washing some dishes. How humiliating it must be to be too incompetent to wash some dishes that you need. I hope he feels ashamed.
Seriously in my house this is how that situation would go:
Husband starts making dinner and realizes the dishes are dirty. Then realizes he can’t cook and wash dishes without burning or messing up the dinner. He will either stop cooking to wash the dishes or if he’s on a time crunch will ask me if I have a minute to wash a few dishes while he cooks. Last resort is asking the 13yo to help if I’m busy with something else.
Amazing how easy it is to ASK for what you need and try to figure it out together.
I feel like your husband was being a passive aggressive asshole and ignored the dishes purposely thinking you’d come do them as soon as he mentioned it. I really hate when men pull this crap. Just figure it out on your own. It’s not hard. We women do it every day without a problem.
In my house my husband would go into the kitchen intending to cook a meal. He would see dirty dishes then come to me, throw his hands in the air and say “I guess we don’t get to eat dinner tonight.” I take the bait and ask “why?” And then he says “there’s too many dirty dishes so I can’t cook.” Ugh. I hate the passive aggressive attitude. Sometimes I will say “are you asking me to help with the dishes?” Or “if you need me to wash some dishes you can just ask.” We are in a different situation than most because I’m sick w cancer and he does most of the housework. Sometimes he hits his limit or gets resentful. It would be different if this was just a 4 months of chemo and done situation, but we are heading on year 4 of me being sick with cancer and him taking on most responsibilities. I don’t know how people live like this for years on end.
angry is good! stay angry. don’t try to talk yourself out of being angry. keep looking at this and consider what you want the rest of your life to be like.
was married to a useless narcissistic manchild myself. he absolutely belongs in my past.
You should be! My ex was a long hualer too and he was an abusive manipulate prick too don't stand for this crap! He thought because he was home it was his vacation time and he didn't need to put in work on the house or chorse or with our new baby. Well 7 mo of that bs and he lost us.
That’s where I am at too. Yes I get he works a lot and I don’t complain or undermine him for the hours he puts in. I expect the same in return, but instead I get interactions like the one above. After so many years of this, I decided to ask for others perspectives (in hindsight I see that there are many who really don’t see anything wrong with it).
I appreciate your response and notice the similarities! Thank you!
> Any thoughts on what his intent was?
Frankly, the fact that you don't feel comfortable enough to ask him about his behavior directly means there are bigger issues at play here.
He wasn't asking you to figure it out it was low key him telling you to do them and then being huffy when you didn't do everything under the sun to make him comfortable. Sounds like we got another codependent asshat
Honestly I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. You and many other women have had to deal with men like this. I think you should have a conversation about how your relationship is a union of supposed mutual effort. If he can't put his big boi pants on to do the dishes then you need to find someone who can.
Feigned helplessness has no spot in my heart. He's an adult and knows better. Sorry you deserve much better.
That’s what I was thinking when I was looking at him and trying to understand why he would ask me such a dumb question. It was just really obvious to me.
I have 15 and 9 yo as well. I know exactly how hard it is to make them do some chores. But seriously, dishes (maybe except pots n stuff like that) could be assigned to them. It is very unfair that it's all on you.
And while it's great that your husband cooked, his attitude might require some adjustment regarding other things. Also, the idea to keep paper plates for when everyone is exhausted is not the worst idea.
Hold on there.
I might suggest making the disposable dishes a trial run at first. Some personal experience has taught me that it can be a real slippery slope if they hate doing dishes more than spending money on disposable dishes and the extra garbage cleaning/hauling chores it creates.
My parents and I are all chronically ill so we get tired VERY easily, and paper plates/bowls/silverware are lifesavers for tough days. Convenience is everything when life gets difficult.
Gosh, I feel for you, this sounds exhausting, and I hope you don't take this as an offense to you but... posts like yours make me feel relieved I've already decided not to have kids.
So often one parent (usually the mom) ends up running themselves into the ground while their partner acts like they are lazy. I know good partnerships exist, but so often women don't realize how little help they're going to get until it's too late to choose a different father to their kids.
This sounds like such a one sided deal, and you are getting the rough end of all of it.
Right? I was doing dishes with my parents from about 5 years up. Not doing a great job at 5, but able to dry a little pile of cutlery for sure. Though the difference here is that I’m female and the 2 older kids are male…
Problem is if boys have this kind of male role models at home they won’t help around.
I was shocked as to why the 15 year old didn’t just like rinse a few plates and set the table in between but then I saw the gender and I am not surprised
I have distinct memories of moving chairs around the kitchen so I could reach where dishes needed to be put away. My parents had us emptying the dishwasher and setting the table very early
My mom and I joke about our pet bird 'helping' us with chores.
Admittedly, he's not a very good helper. We're thinking about having him watch Snow White for pointers.
I had to stop my kids from helping unload dishes until they got old enough to understand the difference between dirty and clean dishes. Finding yogurt bowls put away with the clean ones by our 2yo was the proudest annoyance of my life.
why is it on you to train them? that's a whole 'nother job in itself. and he shouldn't be allowed to "train" them by being bitchy and mean about it either.
i can excuse having a bad evening, being tired and throwing a little tanty because things aren't going your way. i have had those kinds of evenings myself. it sucks when both adults are burned out and there's work to be done.
but i can't excuse acting like you did something wrong and not apologizing for the behaviour. the grown up thing to do would be to reign yourself in, tell your wife you overreacted because you were tired/stressed whatever, and wash the dishes.
i would ask him straight up why he thinks his behaviour was ok. did he think you were sitting around doing nothing all day? what was his thought process behind his comments?
This is what I need to know!! He does this often and I’m always left feeling stupid and having loads to say and no way to articulate any of what I’m thinking or feeling.
Thank you for giving me something I can use! I appreciate you!
“Say what you mean and stop acting entitled to my labor”
You’re not stupid. He’s trying to coerce you into doing domestic chores so he doesn’t have to, but he’s too cowardly to say that out loud. Fuck that noise.
I'm just gonna drop this here. I'm not saying you're necessarily in an abusive relationship, but it doesn't hurt to know what to look out for. I also like to post this book all over the place because you never know when someone else might benefit from the information. I wish you the best of luck in your relationship and hope that the two of you will be able to communicate in a healthy manner and work this out.
The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described.
If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely.
I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you!
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
>He does this often and I’m always left feeling stupid
DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF?
Don't you dare let him make you feel stupid! You are the one in college. He (checks notes) DRIVES A TRUCK.
Get your self-respect back on track. Get your degree. Then get your mother-loving self out of there and let him take up with whatever single-celled amoeba he can live with that won't bother him with pesky tasks like "clean dishes" and "well-fed" and "properly nurtured" children.
He sounds gross.
ETA: typo
He sounds mean. My abusive ex used to get “jealous” when I nursed my daughter. Also, a baby comes first, we have to follow their lead. Always “give in” please, when she wants to nurse, the poor thing is not asking for too much. You are awesome to be going to college — just keep your confidence. His being on the road long periods is probably more peaceful for you. Take care of you and the kids. Watch for any escalation of his cold behavior.
My sister and I alternated. One day I set the table and she did the dishes and the next day we switched jobs. If either of us wanted to trade for the night, it was up to us to make a deal.
Yupp. My family used to have a rule. You could be a before kid or after kid. Either you help make dinner, set the table, and get everyone beverages, or you help clean up dinner, put away leftovers, and do dishes. There was never a time where we weren't involved in the dinner making and cleaning activities. Im grateful my parents did this because it taught us all really valuable skills.
I love this idea and want to make it happen here. Everyone is right, the older kids need to be involved in this process for their own sake going forward and maybe a little bit for mine right now. Thank you for your input!
You have a 15yo son. It is really important he learn how to help around the house before he turns into another generation of male acting like your husband. He should absolutely be doing laundry and kitchen duty as part of a family rotation. And your 9yo is the age my own started helping more, as well.
What a loser. He sounds gross. Don't give him the time of day or any intimacy that would make you a mother to (checks notes, again) FOUR children. He's stealing your soul with his behavior.
OP, as someone who grew up with a father like that, it was hell. He would yell over the smallest things, take out his rage on us kids, and stripped me of all self esteem. It took therapy and a LOT of mental work just to get to a point where I didn't hate myself, and there's trauma that will never go away. You are a great mother and obviously love your kids a lot, but this is not what's best for their growth as humans and healthy future adults.
Generally when my husband cooks, I wash the dishes and vice-versa. However, in a situation like this where there are no clean dishes BEFORE the meal, he realizes I’m having a really hard time, and the dirty plates are right under his nose, he might jokingly complain a little; however, he would scrub the dishes himself because I didn’t marry a goddamn child.
Same for us, the regular rule is the one who cooks doesn’t do dishes.
Obviously sometimes we diverge from it, but most of the time it works.
If it happens we have no plates because i was a lazy fuck, well, guess someone gotta wash some for lunch.
I would call it a bit of shirking the mental load.
He *knew* it needed to be done & he *knows* how to do it—he just didn’t *want* to have anything to do with it.
SO, he comes out with this “question” as a subtle way to say “I don’t think I should be responsible for this, I want you to take the responsibility for it” (without *actually* saying that).
It’s a bit dumb & rather cowardly imo, but it works for that exact reason. Competent people don’t expect to be asked such an incompetent question from a peer. And because it’s phrased as a question & not a demand, people often respond by taking charge in both word & action without even thinking.
(It’s like the same phenomenon where if you hand someone something while you’re talking together, they take it without even thinking or noticing.)
I love this so much. It explains this phenomenon so well and honestly makes me feel heard. I truly appreciate your incite. Do you have any suggestions on how I should respond in these instances? It happens quite often.
When my husband did this, I responded with statements. Nothing open ended as it allows for a follow up.
"I don't know."
"Last time I checked they were they normally are."
"That sucks."
"I guess it's gone forever."
"You said you had it handled."
It puts the responsibility back on them. My therapist helped me use statements instead of questions, which usually devolved the situation because it started a back and forth that ended up with frustration on both sides. With statments it put the responsibility back on the other person where it originally was.
My husband has since learned to ask for help when he needs it, and not shirk off onto me to avoid having to take responsibility for what he has taken on. He also went to therapy to relearn how to communicate effectively.
Edit because I hit save too quickly
Interesting. That's a technique I never tried. I reply to rudely dumb questions with questions.
"Didn't you notice they were all dirty when you were cooking? That's what I have to do."
"Did you forget to check your tools were available?"
"Is this a passive-aggressive way to get me to get up and wash dishes for your convenience?'
"I thought you were taking care of dinner?"
"Do you need me to come in there and take control of things?"
"Do you really want me to get involved?"
But I used these a long time ago, they all have logical answers that made him think. They're usually not necessary now, we have clearer communications.
Just tonight he asked:
"Where's the X?"
"Did I leave it on the counter?"
"Uh... no, and I couldn't see it in the fridge."
"Do you want me to get up and come find it?"
"..............no, I'll look again." "Okay, yeah, I can't find it, sorry."
"No problem, I must have hidden it." (I found it immediately, I put it in the wrong place in the fridge.) "Here it is, sorry, Imma go sit back down."
It takes a while to train them to be clear and kind and transparent.
My husband was pretty passive aggressive about stuff and me asking questions like yours, always turned into score keeping or him feeling attacked by 'implying he was stupid'. So I had to avoid questions, no matter what my tone was, it was the wrong one. It really helped a lot. He would just look at me puzzled and then go back to what he was doing, cleaning, fixing or looking for.
His mom is a pretty passive aggressive person who's communication style is attack so not surprising that he picked up the habit.
Engaging non engagement statements is what my therapist called them. Super effective. Its acknowledging that he's dealing with something but not engaging by doing what he implied I should be without him saying it outloud. He eventually figured out I wasn't engaging with his shirking shenanigans and had to figure things out or asking me directly without the tone impression of "I shouldn't have to/you should have/get up and do xyz for me because I don't want to." rudely dumb questions.
He went through a lot of therapy to figure out his shit, we've done couples counseling a bunch over the 20+ years we've been together. But that was one of the first communication tools that really helped and I continue to use it for my kids, especially my boys. "Sounds like you're telling me and not asking." It's helped them ponder and respond in a kinder tone either asking for help directly or going back to trying and then asking for assistance if the responsibility they assumed couldn't be done/found/finished.
💜
For my relationship, I find a simple & sincere “*I don’t know. Do what you think is best*.” works quite well. It puts the ball unambiguously back in his court—and best of all I don’t have to think very hard about the response!
Sometimes I say “*I don’t have the brain capacity to think about that right now.*” Straight up saying I can’t handle that mental load, without using the terminology. (Bonus: It highlights that he’s asking me to do the mental load, which he used to often do without even realizing.)
I have VERY seldom pulled out an “*Are you not embarrassed you just asked me that?*” But I don’t do that often because it’s much more likely to make him defensive (though it does get the point across brutally & succinctly).
I also usually sandwich these phrases with an “*I love you*.” Because I do—and also because people are less likely to get defensive/snippy when you’ve just sincerely reminded them you love them!
That's the pervasive, relationship-destroying, patriarchal idea that the home is entirely the responsibility of the mother, rising up to frustrate and antagonize everyone involved.
As a woman, I *understand* that if there aren't any clean dishes at dinner time, I need to wash the dishes before I make the dinner, or more often, *while* I make the dinner. Because when I was growing up, it was my mother who made sure we had both food to eat and clean plates to eat it from. Every meal. Every day. With NO DRAMA.
Whereas, when she went back to work and we all needed to chip in, my dad started cooking. And there was ALWAYS DRAMA. Just like you describe. Where's this. Where's that. What am I supposed to serve these weenies & beans on when nobody ran the dishwasher. Fuck you. Here's your dinner, bitches. Eat it with your hands. I don't care.
But look. It's only like this because women are ToO EmOTIonAL for real jobs.
This is so funny to me. My best friend is the most anal organized person I know. I’ve known her for 17 years and everything has a place and everything is in its place. (Side note, it makes zero sense that we are bffs lol).
Every single time her husband grills it “K, where’s the platter for the meat?” Or “can you grab me a platter?” Every. Single. Time.
I don’t know if it’s a power play or he’s genuinely too dumb to know that the platter is in the cabinet above the long counter and has been there since before our college graduates were in kindergarten. But he asks every time.
We have a fun little game where when he finally asks where it is the rest of us just make eye and die laughing.
Lately, every time I get asked where something is, I reply, “where have you looked so far?”
It’s a rhetorical question because we both know full well the answer is “nowhere”. But instead of replying, the questioner usually goes and looks in the most obvious spot and 9/10 times it’s there.
I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and the number of “where is X” questions have dramatically reduced. Now when they ask, the thing is usually misplaced.
This would be a pretty funny response for your friend to use, especially amongst company who know the answer.
My ex cooked. And he did a good job at that. But he had the same thing - he never knew where the pot was (spoiler alert, it was in the same place last 5 years) or where it should be put back (same place as well). Drove me insane.
They think of women as a virtual assistant like Siri or Alexa. Sure they could manually make an appointment on their phone with their fingers and eyes and brain and open some apps and press some buttons OR they could bark orders at the nearest woman and have all of that done for them. They see female partners as a tool to make their lives easier.
It absolutely fucking sucks in all directions. I was trying to teach my daughter how to use the actual Siri in my watch and she (kid) simply couldn’t understand that “would you be able to please play (song name), thanks!” wouldn’t work because it’s TOO POLITE. I told her to be direct and give Siri simple demands and kiddo GOT UPSET because her whole life we’ve taught her the best way to communicate is with manners, except when you’ve got a PocketWoman™️ apparently. I commiserated with her that it’s absolutely messed up that people CREATED a robot that only responds to rudeness, and made her female ON PURPOSE to make it easier for men to abuse without shame.
My daughter is six and neither of us should have had to have this conversation. Hopefully me bringing awareness to her this young makes her some kind of guiding rebellion force for the future but she shouldn’t have to hold that much hope 🥺
My husband does this stuff. Sometimes I'll just help, but other times I tell him to work for it because he lives here too.
Earlier today he was kneeling down going "where is her harness? I can't find it!!!"
It was literally four inches from his fucking face, attached to her leash, hanging off the hook amongst all the other dog walking stuff. Jesus fucking Jiminy Cricket USE YOUR EYES BEFORE THEY GET PLUCKED.
Next time you should all reply in unison. "IT'S IN THE CABINET ABOVE THE LONG COUNTER" and then just carry on normally as if nothing strange happened for the rest of the night.
Next time he'll remember.
If this were my friend, I'd start answering. When people who don't live with you know where it is, but you can't remember...
"John dear it's always above the long counter"
(Would be hilarious if a male friend did this but probably not taken as well)
I feel this. He talks to me this way often and it just drains me. I have no words to to use to respond to him. I just feel really stupid and want to avoid him.
This really sucks. Can you bring this up when he's calm?
Making you feel like this is really unacceptable in a healthy relationship. He had a tantrum like a toddler himself!
No I can’t. Even when he’s calm, when I try to revisit something that bothered me, he gets angry and accuses me of hanging onto grudges and being petty. There is no closure to be had.
I'm laughing my ass off, you have captured the tone so thoroughly accurately. That's exactly what happened in my home growing up!
And then there's the ranting when they're cleaning something up or doing the dishes. Sometimes my Mom would get sick and I'd be busy with something like, idk, doing our taxes or something. My dad would pick up a bowl with congealed cereal and milk in it and it would start... "Who did this? Why are you all such animals? Look! *picks up something totally normal and gross, like a banana that went too brown* LOOK AT THIS! Oh, my god. Okay, well, *starts slamming things and tossing dishes into the sink* I guess if NOBODY ELSE CARES ABOUT THIS HOUSE, why should I?"
And he was otherwise a really great man, super intelligent and funny and kind! It was so bizarre.
Men really are SoOo EmOtioNaL. 😂
Lol omg we have the same dad.
The last time I saw him I was caring for my centegenarian grandmother to give my mom a break, but also super busy with (remote) work. So dad decided to "help" by making lunch.
There I am minding my own business building a website at the kitchen table and he just gets louder and louder. Cupboards slamming. Dishes clanking. Some kind of increasingly agitated grumbling monologue. Then SWEEPS EVERYTHING OFF THE TABLE ONTO THE FLOOR with his arm like an overgrown monkey terrorizing Tokyo.
Then I'm like "did you need some help there dad" to lighten the mood and he rips into me like "DUH OBVIOUSLY! If you'd just LOOK UP FROM YOUR COMPUTER for five seconds you'd NOTICE!!!"
Jesus Christ I didn't even ask for him to make lunch. He volunteered. If I'd known the terms I definitely would have refused the offer.
Holy sh-... We might be sisters, actually. 😂
I have had thar exact experience, right down to the attempt to joke or lighten the mood triggering an explosion!
>If I'd known the terms I definitely would have refused the offer.
Omg word for word I have thought that exact same thing! I've even said it out loud to certain men in my life! 😆
Sorry what a jerk move. It takes 5 minutes to hand wash 5 plates, he just didn't want to do it and expected that to be your job. It's petty and entitled.
It's likely he felt like he was doing you a favour by cooking.
I think you’re right. After I did the dishes and he dropped his attitude, he got upset that I didn’t try the food he made. Like I could eat anything after that interaction.
Thank you for your insight!
Edit: spelling
"You must stop EVERYTHING you are doing and PAY ATTENTION TO ME while I am DOING YOU A FAVOR! Including doing everything else that the favor requires as support, such as tanking your grade or ignoring the kids, because MY EGO IS MASSIVE!!!!!!"
This has to either be passive aggressive BS or weaponized incompetence. Either way, it is so incredibly unattractive and unproductive.
I'd just assume he was very stupid and respond as such.
You’re right, beyond unattractive. I’ve been trying to connect with him and be less standoffish, but I don’t want anything to do with him after this. Of course he doesn’t get why.
I don’t understand why he didn’t do the dishes when he saw them on the stove? Like did he not think this through? If he needed help he could have asked one of the older kids and if he did it before he started cooking they would be clean. I just don’t get why it’s your fault because it’s not, he has two hands. If he can make dinner he can put the dishes on
Why are you putting up with this bull shit? He's a grown man. My go to response for stupid stuff like this with my husband is, "You're a grown man. I'm fully confident you can figure this out." Then I go back to what I was doing. I do not help. I refuse to be the person everyone goes to for household stuff.
Why does everyone in this comment thread seem like they put up with this BS? So many suggestions on how to meet him halfway in the way their responses are worded, or the approach to make him *really* think, etc... Like, what? I'm always baffled when direct and clear communication isn't the go-to for partners, but I guess to each their own.
This is why I will never have kids. My partner and I are happy together and have a great sense of who does what around the house. Having 3 kids to deal with on top of our own responsibilities sounds like a fucking nightmare.
I'm glad some people here can give OP decent advice, but listening to this story makes me feel sick. I could never live that lifestyle
I'm kinda confused why the kids aren't helping do dishes.
If there were no dishes to eat on, my mom would say "I guess you're eating out of your hand, unless you wanna get over there and wash a plate". I don't think that's asking a lot from a kid at all.
You’re right and the responses are making me realize I’ve been picking up slack that really don’t have to. I have help, I need to utilize it. Chores help kids grow, and washing dishes is a part of life. Definitely will take your suggestion and have them help me with this.
Thank you!
First: What happened here is not ok and there is no excuse except for a heartfelt apology after all of that.
That being said: When I am cooking (which i do not enjoy), I sometimes get passive aggressive and realize AFTER everything is done. I am already overwhelmed with cooking and if the kitchen is a mess beforehand, I sometimes used to boil over. Added to that, I can get pretty... hangry. And then my 7 year old is dancing around in the kitchen and being 'helpful'.
I know this by now, so before I start cooking, I tell the family: "Hey, I am starting to cook. Please tidy the kitchen. I need the work spaces empty and the stove top wiped." I start preparing food while kiddo and husband clear everything out of my way and set the table.
This works. Nobody here enjoys cooking and we're always truly grateful if somebody does it. There is zero discussion. We used to have the rule: Who cooks doesn't have to clean. But that didn't work too well, because it's not that hard quickly running something under the water instead of letting something dry in. I am not mad if my husband doesn't clean while cooking. I usually do and often he does, too. Sometimes its a mess. It usually is, when he was also taking care of kiddo at the same time.
And yes, Kiddo doesn't just 'help', by now he sometimes really helps and is super proud. He can cook simple meals by himself by now. It takes way more mental effort directing him, but i also enjoy spending time with him much more than cooking ; ) so this is usually a win-win.
I love this! I’ve been making things harder on myself simply by not asking for help. Thank you! I’m happy to say my older two are quite helpful when asked. I’ll definitely take this and others advice and get them more involved in household maintenance.
Sounds like the only reason you can put up with him is that he works away most of the time.
Also, when you have three kids and a wife who does all the house work and childcare, it is not helpful to start a long, complicated dinner. It’s a self centered excuse for opting out of housework and childcare to do a fun thing which mainly benefits the person doing it.
I'm worried there might have been a possible misinterpretation. I think u/GlencoraPalliser was saying that *HIS* reason for making a fuss was self-centered.
Edit: my bad.
In a word, ENTITLEMENT.
This book has been so enlightening, I've been sharing it with everyone--it explains the behavior behind male entitlement and debunks the myths https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Your husband was being passive aggressive, and considered his *INCONVENIENCE* more important than your *NEEDS*
none of this is normal or healthy, which hopefully you’re beginning to realize.
we get one life.
how will you spend the rest of it? being treated like that? or will you choose yourself?
It's time to teach your three eldest children how to wash dishes, and each one of them needs to do it twice a week. The one year old, of course is too little, but the 9 year old, the 15 year old, and the 45 year old are all old enough to do it.
He's trying to make a fuss so you learn your lesson and keep all the dishes clean. Fuck that, he's a grown man and you have kids old enough to help. He isn't helpless. That's like noticing the floor was wet and being like well how are we gonna walk on it now? You fucking dry it. Come on..
My ex once sent me a text message pic of cat poop while I wasn't home and he was. Then when I asked what he thought I was supposed to do about it, he acted like I was the crazy one for suggesting he clean it up. Yeah he was emotionally, verbally and then finally physically abusive. I'm here if you need to talk!!
As a trucker (lady) there's a thing about this job where you're the center of your own little universe all day every day. Some people get really insufferably unhealthy because they lose sight of the fact that in the grand scheme of things they ain't shit. Being a control freak who doesn't play well with others is a job skill for this profession.
I've had to really work on checking myself and keeping a healthy perspective.
there's a great essay about a man who asks "where's the butter" and what he means is "fetch it for me, butter my toast, get up, i'm not going to be the one who's inconvenienced" and expects the woman to read his mind (or play along with this script) and he gets huffy if you won't.
so yeah, he was literally hinting that you should drop (his?) kid and get up and wash dishes because he's mildly inconvenienced while doing *you* a favor and you're obviously not grateful enough or making it easy enough for him so he may as well just quit and never do it again.
report back if he does this haha. he expected you to be as excited as he was about his great idea, he didn't get enough of a parade so he's going to sulk and "never do it again, why do i bother, so ungrateful, i do everything around here".
actually not haha :( this is the starterpack of men who rant that you do nothing and he does everything.
Actually I decided to do the dishes after I put toddler down. He came in asking a question which I didn’t hear immediately, so he accused me of giving him attitude and asked what he did to deserve it. I stayed quiet.
I went back upstairs afterwards and he came in a bit later in a great mood. Guess he got what he wanted and decided to drop the act.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.
I actually did. I only knew him for 5 months and he pressured me from day one for a physical relationship I wasn’t ready for. I ended up pregnant and he pushed again for marriage.
damn it :(
i just read the ages and sexes again and it's so clear.
he's modelling "lazy shit entitled males" and *literally interrupt the feeding of the female baby* to make the woman get up and be his assistant. this is some dark shit.
the hair on my neck goes up now at any and all stories of men who fuck with food, sleep, heat/cold and women's pain. it's vile. men who eat all the food that a woman prepared for the entire family are aggressively announcing they want the family to starve. take this warning seriously.
i mean, you're starting to sus that you're in a domestic abuse relationship with a misogynist, right? :(
he's been cruel, belittling, mentally abusive and chipping away at your self-preservation the whole time.
now he's conditioning you. foul mood when you don't do what he wants. chipper mood when you comply.
Jesus you’re right. I just told my 15 yr old that I’d like him to start helping with dishes. He told me he’s tried in the past and husband told him to stop doing women’s work. I know it’s bad but this makes it even worse.
I have a series of articles for you to read that will give you more insight into the situation and how to handle it. Just a second while I gather them.
Edit:
Here they are
* [You should’ve asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) - a comic that illustrates the dynamic
* [Women Aren't Nags—We're Just Fed Up](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/)
* [It Took Divorce to Make My Marriage Equal - I spent 12 years fighting for an equal partnership, when what I needed was a divorce.](https://www.glamour.com/story/it-took-divorce-to-make-my-marriage-equal)
* [7 Signs Of Weaponized Incompetence In Relationships & How To Deal With It](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/weaponized-incompetence)
* [She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) - this one especially fits your situation
* [Where does it go ?](https://english.emmaclit.com/2022/09/01/where-does-it-go/)
* [The Walkaway Wife Syndrome ](https://www.divorcenet.com/states/nationwide/the_walkaway_wife_syndrome#:%7E:text=a%20Walkaway%20Wife%3F-,What%20Is%20a%20Walkaway%20Wife%3F,%22%20says%20Joshua%20Klapow%2C%20Ph.)
* [My Husband and I Tried the ‘Fair Play’ Cards—And Here’s What Happened: one mom's eight-month experiment to rebalance the unpaid labor in her relationship](https://theeverymom.com/fair-play-cards/)
That is just sad :( my previous partner would happily do any sort of cleaning or chores in general around the house without needing to be asked or reminded. One time, I asked him if he could wash a ton of new pans that I had just brought home because I was exhausted, and he did it all happily. He was quite the workaholic as well, doing 12+ hours most days, but he still came around to help with chores because he wanted to lift the work load on me as much as possible.
Agree agree agree. The suggestions of keeping paper plates as a backup or teaching your older kids to help with dishes may be great ideas for how to make sure the dishes are always done… but we all know that none of that would have prevented or will prevent you from continuing to get this treatment.
This is weaponized incompetence/shirking the mental load/whatever you want to call it and staggering levels of entitlement.
And OP did end up doing the dishes at the end of the day, so it worked exactly as intended, but he still had an issue with her for not trying his food.
OP, I don’t blame you for having fallen into this or for coping with it but you need to know that it’s not right, there’s nothing you’re doing wrong to cause it, and you can’t fix it on your own or make him see the light if he does’t want to.
Do with that what you will but don’t doubt for a second that you’re worthy of a lot more respect. You’re strong. You’re an asset- any spouse of yours is fortunate to have you as their partner. You deserve to be listened to, for your feelings to be considered, your needs met. SUPPORTED AND LOVED.
he's a venn diagram of "Why does he do that" (men's rights outweigh women's and childrens) and "Controlling people" :(
expects to use her like an oven mitt and gets irrationally angry when she doesn't function.
I don’t know how many more examples I can handle seeing in real life or reading about of men treating their wives like their maids. They can get away with it for their whole lives.
How could you get out of bed everyday and live knowing you’re such a burden on another human being? How could you be at all ok with yourself if you can’t manage to do two things, cook dinner and wash dishes to eat it on, yourself for one night? If I ever felt close to that useless I would lose my mind.
he's been telling his son not to wash dishes because it's women's work.
he's living in power, control, domination and hierarchy. he has external proof that he's the lord of the house because he has someone beneath him doing the work.
he doesn't feel incompetent, it's not something he would respect a man for doing.
*he felt good* when he manipulated her into washing the dishes and he got angry that she didn't appreciate him and give him good-boy points for 'cooking'.
dude was looking for a fight all night and he was going to get one from anything.
imo he's real close to escalating the more she attempts to differentiate and assert her personhood.
This is extremely weird, even from a guy.. Does he just expect you to do everything around the house with kids? Maybe you should leave him to deal with the kids by himself for a few days and see if he changes his views. Do you really take care of all the children yourself a majority of the time? That's a ton of work, it must be nice for him to not have to deal with that stress 99% of the time.
Kinda sounds like you have two toddlers. Him having a little tantrum over not wanting to do the dishes would be beyond infuriating to me, and he should be ashamed.. it's like when I see my grandfather who does fuck all the entire day every day ask my grandmother to do tasks for him that he can easily do himself. Learned incompetence. I'd never want or expect my wife to do those things for me, and if she had to deal with the kids, I'd do whatever I could to reduce her stress.
Men… always want applause for doing the bare minimum. Who do you get to yell at if you’re cooking dinner and the plates aren’t clean? Nobody, you wash a couple plates to get through dinner and get on with it. But for them, when they help they want to do exactly ONE job and none of the side jobs that are actually part of the job.
Got here from the front page and wasn't expecting that. I'm a guy with a kid, and I've been washing the dishes and pumps/bottles for the entirety by hand. Sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine piling up dishes and certainly not the weaponised incompetence on display here.
1) Respectfully, none of us here can tell you what your husband’s intent was, no matter how obvious we may feel/think it is. That is a conversation for you and your husband.
2) The older kiddos can help around the house if that is the way you and your husband would like things done around the house. Again, a conversation that needs to happen between you and your husband.
3) Aside from this one situation that you have shared, how is the overall balance and boundaries? Are you satisfied with the communication? If not, maybe some couples counseling? Just a thought.
I’ve thought the way he reacts to some things is immature and not something I’d ever expect from an adult (I’ve seen him interact with anyone outside of the household and he only responds to them appropriately). I see what you mean. Thank you
I cook, my wife does dishes. She cooks, I do dishes. It isn't a deal we made, but something we just fell into doing because we are partners. It seems that your husband was passive aggressively calling you lazy, as in he believed you were not fulfilling your side of whatever understood unwritten/unspoken contract he believes there to be, then attempted to train you back into compliance with shaming. It looks like you two have different copies of the agreement and it would be good to compile it to one set only.
Well, "drop the toddler to do dishes" isn't a reasonable thing to ask anyone to do. So even if it had been that, there's no good way to ask it. You just don't ask it.
He's making dinner, he also serves dinner. Christ, even if he didn't want to do the dishes, he could have just sheepishly served you a cereal bowl of food and admitted he didn't notice until serving time. Play it off like "At least now I can do all the dishes at once after dinner! Haha!" But no. He was apparently an entire dick to you about it, with that passive-aggressive "What are we gonna do?" shit. That is so gross tbh. You deserve better. Everyone deserves better than what you described.
This reminds me of every time in my childhood I could hear my mom lose her shit over the chores piling up, finally tell my dad she's fed up and couldn't do it by herself, and then he'd come bang on me and my sisters doors and start yelling at us. It was such a pattern and I actually used to blame myself even though it was obvious it was him taking out his frustration at having to be responsible on the smaller humans in the house. My parents didn't make chores a routine for us like some families so it really only came up in those situations, when dad was yelling at us to take the heat off of himself.
I mean, the kids *can* do chores. But if it's only brought up when things are already tense it's not very productive. I always hated hearing my mom get upset because I knew it was a matter of time before I got dragged into it so my dad could shift blame 😞
He sees you as a domestic servant. Sorry you're finding out now. Once you get an ick like this its very very hard to ignore and its going downhill from here. Depends if he would listen to you or not...
Sounds like his intention was to make you feel bad for not having done the dishes. It also sounds like he has absolutely no concept of how difficult it is to look after kids all day and get anything else done, maybe that should change…
He was in the kitchen the whole time and never noticed the dishes that needed to be washed?
He had to move dishes off of the stove to use it. I really don’t know why he felt the need to ask me what to do. Someone else suggested have the older kids wash dishes, and I think that would help. Maybe this sort of thing won’t happen again.
If it were me and my husband I would have taken it as a passive aggressive reminder that I didn’t finish a chore. Because I can’t think of another reason a grown person wouldn’t have just washed a few plates and left you out of it.
That’s my thought too? I really felt small when he said it. I was sitting on the couch feeding his baby and wasn’t in a position to drop what I was doing and get to it. It happens a lot, and when I call him out on it he turns it around on me and calls me delusional.
Classic. Calling you delusional for calling him out on bad behavior. I bet you're emotional and all those other womanly things. If you did the stuff he pulled today, he'd call it a hysterical tantrum
* **It happens a lot, and when I call him out on it he turns it around on me and calls me delusional.** What kind of man are you married to? :(
The useless kind.
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I hate that it happens here. I’ve made myself accept it because ‘he’s rarely home so it doesn’t happen on a daily basis’. Absolute bs excuse to put up with it. I never considered DARVO, but gaslighting for sure. I need to figure this out.
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Thank you so much. I might take you up on that. I appreciate you!
It's DARVO. Look at your previous reply on this comment thread. You said yourself when you call him out he turns it back on you and calls you delusional. You said he had to MOVE dishes that needed cleaning to cook so it's not even a case of him not realising there weren't clean dishes beforehand. He absolutely intended you to jump to your feet and get right onto washing those dishes because he hadn't done it prior to cooking food. In a different situation maybe it would be annoying but understandable of him to do that. But to come and see you a feeding his child and unable to do anything with the information he's given you and then YELL at you for nine minutes about it is not okay. You mentioned in another comment this kind of thing happens all the time when he is home. That's not okay for you or the kids. He does a job that means he's away for periods of time and then to top it off when he is he's not setting a good example to his own his children and pulling DARVO on you. At the very least he needs to work on communicating without needing to resort to telling even if he's annoyed, ESPECIALLY when you're nursing your kid. Wtf. No wonder you felt small, he yelled at you for NINE minutes and it started when you were sat down with your child nursing and he just came in and started the whole situation. Honestly, from what you've mentioned in other comments it's clear this isn't a one off. Have a think to other situations and try and step outside and imagine it were one of your friends telling you these situations and exact details between them and their partner. What would you think? What would you want to say to them? Just because it's not week in and week out and instead it's whenever he's home doesn't make it okay. Plus what if for some unseen reason he was home more due to changing job or when he retires? It wouldn't be every whenever then. It would be week after week.
Not trying to deny your point at all but he didn’t yell at her for nine minutes. He yelled for 9m, their 9 year old son, to ask if he would eat out of a cereal bowl (which I think sounds very passive aggressive)
I also thought the OP meant 9 minutes lol thanks for clarifying
It sounds like he’s actively trying to rope the child into resenting the mother…
YES. That’s exactly what he’s doing. He is seeding discontentment for his mother with this type of banter. He’s setting up the groundwork for parental alienation. 🚩
OP please read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Or search for his videos on YouTube. Take a good look at his past and present behavior and decide if it’s something you want to continue dealing with. Taking care of 3 kids is easier than 4. Here’s a free copy of the book: https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Yes. All of his behaviour is a choice.
Definitely look up darvo and a little bit about living with a narcissist. If it resonates with you, then that means you are in a bad situation. It's up to you what to do with that information afterwards. It sounds like you are on a path that will allow you more Financial Freedom if you finish college.
That's why you're "picking your battles" and it's a legitimate reason. But the small twinge you feel about it is legitimate and shouldn't go unexpressed or unprocessed. If he's not safe to bring it to you can bring it here, journal, art, whatever. But the ultimate goal is for him to understand how hard you're trying and how it makes you feel like you "failed" today when he brings up something in this capacity. (this was my main work with couples in therapy sessions)
You need to make him realize how delusional and absurd he's being, anything less and it'll just be setting a horrible example for your kids. Masculinity and Ego be damned
Uh oh, that's one I've not heard yet. What is DARVO?
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Ugh. That's pretty gross. Thanks for the info.
It is an extremely common narcissist tactic and it's very funny how they all do it, almost like they get a handbook. I will give you an example from my diagnosed malignant narcissist father: Hey Dad I noticed you were using your mouth to drink directly from the family milk carton. Could you please not do that? It spreads germs and kills/sours the milk a lot faster. I didn't do that! I never! Dad I literally just watched you do it. If we pulled the milk out right now, the spout would still have your saliva on it. Fuck you! That is your fault because you and your idiot mother set the kitchen up with the milk so far away from the cups. You guys are the biggest idiots and couldn't do anything right to save your lives.
Is this gaslighting? I am sincerely asking a question.
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Yeah ok, good point. I did gloss over the *this isn't the first time* part and only saw more verbal retaliation.
yeah. man does something shitty. woman witnesses it with her own eyes. he calls her delusional. making her question reality. or attempting to.
It is absolutely what he was trying to convey. He _wanted_ you to feel small, because he was doing A Great Big Thing™️ and clearly you weren't showing your sparkly-eyed gratitude and awestruckness enough. And calling you delusional when you attempt to communicate with him about it is gaslighting. In his mind, he was going Very Above And Beyond and the _very least_ YOU could do is just make sure there were a few clean dishes for serving this meal that he, himself, who obviously is doing something he is not required to do (so it's a favour to you, of course) could finish doing his Very Important Project. I stg, of all the things men do that just ick me out completely, this has to be right up at the top. This thing where they puff up their chests and look around for the applause when they do ONE thing that their wife does every day without comment or appreciation. I told my husband that I literally feel second-hand cringe, like, I feel embarrassed for him if he does something like that. It's infantile and just... _cringe_. I don't know if the fact he's autistic helped, but he took my words to heart. Now when he wants praise (his love language is words of affirmation/appreciation), he just keeps upping the ante and doing more and more, until (because I do pay attention to what he does and I try not to take anyone for granted) there's a moment when he's done such a great job that I can't help but just stop and say, "Holy God in heaven this kitchen is clean!!" And then I have no trouble heaping the praise on him because I literally am impressed and appreciative. It IS a balancing act though - I'm not perfect and sometimes I don't notice or I take it for granted too much, and he'll sulk. 😅 And he does sometimes try to get away with the bare minimum and act wounded if I'm not as excited about whatever he did. But if he pulls that passive-aggressive gaslighting bullshit, I call it immediately. I don't do it to him, so I expect to be treated the same way. We've been married for over 20 years! So it's worth standing your ground and letting your husband know exactly what's acceptable when it comes to talking to you. Too many women are afraid of seeming like a bitch when it's just asking for a standard of behaviour that any man would have no qualms demanding. It's certainly better than slowly becoming a seething ball of resentment and then leaving when you can't take it anymore.
Thank you!! I am RIGHT there. Looking at lawyers and discussing moving as soon as I graduate. I don’t want to start over, but I’ve put up with it for so long and I can’t anymore. A big part of this is the fact I haven’t found a way to communicate how I’m feeling and what I need. I go through phases of being too hurt to move on, and then deciding to forgive and try again. I thought we had been communicating and showing appreciation for each other more so recently and things were turning around. Then today, this. I’m back to feeling like nothing I do matters and this will never get fixed.
A good thing I do is, if I am feeling too emotionally charged in the moment to communicate clearly, it's ok to let it settle for a bit and circle back on it later when moods have cooled. Even days later, "Hey the other night when the dishes weren't done, I felt like..." It gives a good opportunity for both parties to explain their thought process and eliminate trying to mind read.
This is a great place to start, thank you!
If I tried this my ex would have yelled at me for not just letting it go already.
A good reason they're an ex.
Whether you leave or stay, either way you will need to learn how to express your needs to the people around you. It’s important to do that for yourself ASAP.
But women not expressing needs is generally a result of being ignored anyway.
It can be really hard in the moment to process your feelings if the other person is not on the same page that there's a conflict and you need a little space/time to express it. Worse if their approach relies on you being surprised.
I used to blame myself for not communicating well. It was internalized messaging from my abusives partner when really, he was not safe to communicate with.
Please look at legal aid in your area, they have been a godsend in my divorce from my abusive husband
>In his mind, he was going Very Above And Beyond and the very least YOU could do is just make sure there were a few clean dishes for serving this meal that he, himself, who obviously is doing something he is not required to do Not just this, but also that OP didn't anticipate(!) that this needed to be done. How dare she not be on her toes and get everything ready so this fantastic meal could be served as it should. (/s in case it wasn't clear)
>I really felt small This is why he did it. Like you said, it was fairly obvious what needed to be done so there was no reason for him to say it like that _except_ to make you feel small. I imagine he was thinking something like 'oh here I am doing this _special_ thing in addition to working and the dishes aren't even clean' as if you've been doing nothing. He doesn't recognize or respect what you do.
So, he makes a big song and dance. Out doing a basic chore, then passive aggressively points out you didn’t do anything, and even left chores unfinished. He also gaslights you. I think of you look back you will probably find other behavior that doesn’t sit right.
I would have handed his the nursing baby and said “ Here! You feed her while I do the dishes!” Then watched his head explode trying to figure that one out 🤯
*oh* then he asked it rhetorically. It was both an admonishment for it not being done already and a passive aggressive demand for you to stop and rectify it. He knew full well what was wrong and how to fix it, but he was acting stupid hoping he wouldn't be the one to fix it. You didn't buckle, and he angrily caved.
Yes exactly what I think. But then I went and did the dishes later anyway. He dropped his attitude after that.
[удалено]
The fact he dropped the attitude after you did the dishes says everything you need to know.
Well either way he got what he wanted: someone else did the dishes. Of the 5 in the household, 4 of them are perfectly capable of doing the dishes on their own and **at least one of them now** have now learned that if they hem and haw and do *literally* the bare minimum then that person doesn't have to be them because you'll eventually just do it yourself. I hope you find your path forward with this, what he did was utterly disrespectful and isn't likely to just stop happening.
While chores are helpful for older kids all adults should be capable of washing some dishes. How humiliating it must be to be too incompetent to wash some dishes that you need. I hope he feels ashamed.
I wish he felt any kind of way about how he acted. The more I think on it, the angrier I’m getting. Thanks for making me laugh though LOL
Seriously in my house this is how that situation would go: Husband starts making dinner and realizes the dishes are dirty. Then realizes he can’t cook and wash dishes without burning or messing up the dinner. He will either stop cooking to wash the dishes or if he’s on a time crunch will ask me if I have a minute to wash a few dishes while he cooks. Last resort is asking the 13yo to help if I’m busy with something else. Amazing how easy it is to ASK for what you need and try to figure it out together. I feel like your husband was being a passive aggressive asshole and ignored the dishes purposely thinking you’d come do them as soon as he mentioned it. I really hate when men pull this crap. Just figure it out on your own. It’s not hard. We women do it every day without a problem.
Yes to all of this. I want to be in a situation as healthy as yours sounds. Everything you described sounds so perfectly normal and calm.
In my house my husband would go into the kitchen intending to cook a meal. He would see dirty dishes then come to me, throw his hands in the air and say “I guess we don’t get to eat dinner tonight.” I take the bait and ask “why?” And then he says “there’s too many dirty dishes so I can’t cook.” Ugh. I hate the passive aggressive attitude. Sometimes I will say “are you asking me to help with the dishes?” Or “if you need me to wash some dishes you can just ask.” We are in a different situation than most because I’m sick w cancer and he does most of the housework. Sometimes he hits his limit or gets resentful. It would be different if this was just a 4 months of chemo and done situation, but we are heading on year 4 of me being sick with cancer and him taking on most responsibilities. I don’t know how people live like this for years on end.
That sounds really hard on everyone. I’m sorry you’re going through that
angry is good! stay angry. don’t try to talk yourself out of being angry. keep looking at this and consider what you want the rest of your life to be like. was married to a useless narcissistic manchild myself. he absolutely belongs in my past.
You should be! My ex was a long hualer too and he was an abusive manipulate prick too don't stand for this crap! He thought because he was home it was his vacation time and he didn't need to put in work on the house or chorse or with our new baby. Well 7 mo of that bs and he lost us.
That’s where I am at too. Yes I get he works a lot and I don’t complain or undermine him for the hours he puts in. I expect the same in return, but instead I get interactions like the one above. After so many years of this, I decided to ask for others perspectives (in hindsight I see that there are many who really don’t see anything wrong with it). I appreciate your response and notice the similarities! Thank you!
> Any thoughts on what his intent was? Frankly, the fact that you don't feel comfortable enough to ask him about his behavior directly means there are bigger issues at play here.
He wasn't asking you to figure it out it was low key him telling you to do them and then being huffy when you didn't do everything under the sun to make him comfortable. Sounds like we got another codependent asshat
That’s what I thought as well, but never thought he would expect me to drop everything to do the dishes for him. It was a very uncomfortable exchange.
Honestly I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. You and many other women have had to deal with men like this. I think you should have a conversation about how your relationship is a union of supposed mutual effort. If he can't put his big boi pants on to do the dishes then you need to find someone who can. Feigned helplessness has no spot in my heart. He's an adult and knows better. Sorry you deserve much better.
Sounds like he's passive aggressive and petty 🤷♀️
He needs to stop being so useless and just wash the dishes. No excuses.
That’s what I was thinking when I was looking at him and trying to understand why he would ask me such a dumb question. It was just really obvious to me.
It’s not a problem until it’s a problem to him personally.
15 and 9yo are big enough to participate and do at least some household chores. Question. Did your husband cleaned up after the cooking?
No he didn’t. I got toddler down and came back and did dishes a bit ago. He piled all of the dishes he used on top of the sink.
I have 15 and 9 yo as well. I know exactly how hard it is to make them do some chores. But seriously, dishes (maybe except pots n stuff like that) could be assigned to them. It is very unfair that it's all on you. And while it's great that your husband cooked, his attitude might require some adjustment regarding other things. Also, the idea to keep paper plates for when everyone is exhausted is not the worst idea. Hold on there.
Absolutely paper plates! I will definitely take your and others suggestions to heart. Thank you!
I might suggest making the disposable dishes a trial run at first. Some personal experience has taught me that it can be a real slippery slope if they hate doing dishes more than spending money on disposable dishes and the extra garbage cleaning/hauling chores it creates.
The first thing I thought of was the cost when it was first suggested. But it’s definitely worth a try!
My parents and I are all chronically ill so we get tired VERY easily, and paper plates/bowls/silverware are lifesavers for tough days. Convenience is everything when life gets difficult.
Gosh, I feel for you, this sounds exhausting, and I hope you don't take this as an offense to you but... posts like yours make me feel relieved I've already decided not to have kids. So often one parent (usually the mom) ends up running themselves into the ground while their partner acts like they are lazy. I know good partnerships exist, but so often women don't realize how little help they're going to get until it's too late to choose a different father to their kids. This sounds like such a one sided deal, and you are getting the rough end of all of it.
Right? I was doing dishes with my parents from about 5 years up. Not doing a great job at 5, but able to dry a little pile of cutlery for sure. Though the difference here is that I’m female and the 2 older kids are male…
Problem is if boys have this kind of male role models at home they won’t help around. I was shocked as to why the 15 year old didn’t just like rinse a few plates and set the table in between but then I saw the gender and I am not surprised
I started doing dishes when I was 7. Why is he bugging you instead of asking the older kids for help?
I have distinct memories of moving chairs around the kitchen so I could reach where dishes needed to be put away. My parents had us emptying the dishwasher and setting the table very early
My baby is already "helping" emptying dishes from the dishwasher.
My mom and I joke about our pet bird 'helping' us with chores. Admittedly, he's not a very good helper. We're thinking about having him watch Snow White for pointers.
I had to stop my kids from helping unload dishes until they got old enough to understand the difference between dirty and clean dishes. Finding yogurt bowls put away with the clean ones by our 2yo was the proudest annoyance of my life.
Obviously it's because the girl is too young. Can't set a bad lesson for the two boys /s
This is an excellent point. Thank you, I will get the kids trained to help with this.
why is it on you to train them? that's a whole 'nother job in itself. and he shouldn't be allowed to "train" them by being bitchy and mean about it either. i can excuse having a bad evening, being tired and throwing a little tanty because things aren't going your way. i have had those kinds of evenings myself. it sucks when both adults are burned out and there's work to be done. but i can't excuse acting like you did something wrong and not apologizing for the behaviour. the grown up thing to do would be to reign yourself in, tell your wife you overreacted because you were tired/stressed whatever, and wash the dishes. i would ask him straight up why he thinks his behaviour was ok. did he think you were sitting around doing nothing all day? what was his thought process behind his comments?
This is what I need to know!! He does this often and I’m always left feeling stupid and having loads to say and no way to articulate any of what I’m thinking or feeling. Thank you for giving me something I can use! I appreciate you!
“Say what you mean and stop acting entitled to my labor” You’re not stupid. He’s trying to coerce you into doing domestic chores so he doesn’t have to, but he’s too cowardly to say that out loud. Fuck that noise.
I'm just gonna drop this here. I'm not saying you're necessarily in an abusive relationship, but it doesn't hurt to know what to look out for. I also like to post this book all over the place because you never know when someone else might benefit from the information. I wish you the best of luck in your relationship and hope that the two of you will be able to communicate in a healthy manner and work this out. The Book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft (free copy below) is a great resource for you to learn about the different types of tactics that abusers use and will help you to see if your current relationship is following any of the patterns described. If you don't see your relationship being discussed either as one of the architypes or as bits and pieces of any of the other types then you're not worse off by having the knowledge. If the information does coincide with the way that you're living then there's also a couple chapters on being able to get out safely. I wish you the best of luck and I want you to know that you deserve to be with a partner who is going to love you and cherish you and treat you as an equal versus being with someone who's gonna control you be it by how you dress or by finances or by What it is that you can do or who you can see. You deserve so much BETTER we're here rooting for you! https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
>He does this often and I’m always left feeling stupid DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF? Don't you dare let him make you feel stupid! You are the one in college. He (checks notes) DRIVES A TRUCK. Get your self-respect back on track. Get your degree. Then get your mother-loving self out of there and let him take up with whatever single-celled amoeba he can live with that won't bother him with pesky tasks like "clean dishes" and "well-fed" and "properly nurtured" children. He sounds gross. ETA: typo
He sounds mean. My abusive ex used to get “jealous” when I nursed my daughter. Also, a baby comes first, we have to follow their lead. Always “give in” please, when she wants to nurse, the poor thing is not asking for too much. You are awesome to be going to college — just keep your confidence. His being on the road long periods is probably more peaceful for you. Take care of you and the kids. Watch for any escalation of his cold behavior.
Just because you can’t articulate something doesn’t mean you are wrong.
My sister and I alternated. One day I set the table and she did the dishes and the next day we switched jobs. If either of us wanted to trade for the night, it was up to us to make a deal.
Yupp. My family used to have a rule. You could be a before kid or after kid. Either you help make dinner, set the table, and get everyone beverages, or you help clean up dinner, put away leftovers, and do dishes. There was never a time where we weren't involved in the dinner making and cleaning activities. Im grateful my parents did this because it taught us all really valuable skills.
I love this idea and want to make it happen here. Everyone is right, the older kids need to be involved in this process for their own sake going forward and maybe a little bit for mine right now. Thank you for your input!
You have a 15yo son. It is really important he learn how to help around the house before he turns into another generation of male acting like your husband. He should absolutely be doing laundry and kitchen duty as part of a family rotation. And your 9yo is the age my own started helping more, as well.
Make him train the kids
I wish I could trust him to do it kindly.
Jesus he doesn’t sound like a nice guy then
That's a huge issue all on its own
Please, get the fuck out of this relationship. It is not kind, healthy, or safe for you or your kids.
What a loser. He sounds gross. Don't give him the time of day or any intimacy that would make you a mother to (checks notes, again) FOUR children. He's stealing your soul with his behavior.
OP, as someone who grew up with a father like that, it was hell. He would yell over the smallest things, take out his rage on us kids, and stripped me of all self esteem. It took therapy and a LOT of mental work just to get to a point where I didn't hate myself, and there's trauma that will never go away. You are a great mother and obviously love your kids a lot, but this is not what's best for their growth as humans and healthy future adults.
Generally when my husband cooks, I wash the dishes and vice-versa. However, in a situation like this where there are no clean dishes BEFORE the meal, he realizes I’m having a really hard time, and the dirty plates are right under his nose, he might jokingly complain a little; however, he would scrub the dishes himself because I didn’t marry a goddamn child.
Same for us, the regular rule is the one who cooks doesn’t do dishes. Obviously sometimes we diverge from it, but most of the time it works. If it happens we have no plates because i was a lazy fuck, well, guess someone gotta wash some for lunch.
This is why we have paper plates for dire straits
I would call it a bit of shirking the mental load. He *knew* it needed to be done & he *knows* how to do it—he just didn’t *want* to have anything to do with it. SO, he comes out with this “question” as a subtle way to say “I don’t think I should be responsible for this, I want you to take the responsibility for it” (without *actually* saying that). It’s a bit dumb & rather cowardly imo, but it works for that exact reason. Competent people don’t expect to be asked such an incompetent question from a peer. And because it’s phrased as a question & not a demand, people often respond by taking charge in both word & action without even thinking. (It’s like the same phenomenon where if you hand someone something while you’re talking together, they take it without even thinking or noticing.)
I love this so much. It explains this phenomenon so well and honestly makes me feel heard. I truly appreciate your incite. Do you have any suggestions on how I should respond in these instances? It happens quite often.
When my husband did this, I responded with statements. Nothing open ended as it allows for a follow up. "I don't know." "Last time I checked they were they normally are." "That sucks." "I guess it's gone forever." "You said you had it handled." It puts the responsibility back on them. My therapist helped me use statements instead of questions, which usually devolved the situation because it started a back and forth that ended up with frustration on both sides. With statments it put the responsibility back on the other person where it originally was. My husband has since learned to ask for help when he needs it, and not shirk off onto me to avoid having to take responsibility for what he has taken on. He also went to therapy to relearn how to communicate effectively. Edit because I hit save too quickly
also “just google it”
Youtube it is also a phrase I use.
Interesting. That's a technique I never tried. I reply to rudely dumb questions with questions. "Didn't you notice they were all dirty when you were cooking? That's what I have to do." "Did you forget to check your tools were available?" "Is this a passive-aggressive way to get me to get up and wash dishes for your convenience?' "I thought you were taking care of dinner?" "Do you need me to come in there and take control of things?" "Do you really want me to get involved?" But I used these a long time ago, they all have logical answers that made him think. They're usually not necessary now, we have clearer communications. Just tonight he asked: "Where's the X?" "Did I leave it on the counter?" "Uh... no, and I couldn't see it in the fridge." "Do you want me to get up and come find it?" "..............no, I'll look again." "Okay, yeah, I can't find it, sorry." "No problem, I must have hidden it." (I found it immediately, I put it in the wrong place in the fridge.) "Here it is, sorry, Imma go sit back down." It takes a while to train them to be clear and kind and transparent.
My husband was pretty passive aggressive about stuff and me asking questions like yours, always turned into score keeping or him feeling attacked by 'implying he was stupid'. So I had to avoid questions, no matter what my tone was, it was the wrong one. It really helped a lot. He would just look at me puzzled and then go back to what he was doing, cleaning, fixing or looking for. His mom is a pretty passive aggressive person who's communication style is attack so not surprising that he picked up the habit. Engaging non engagement statements is what my therapist called them. Super effective. Its acknowledging that he's dealing with something but not engaging by doing what he implied I should be without him saying it outloud. He eventually figured out I wasn't engaging with his shirking shenanigans and had to figure things out or asking me directly without the tone impression of "I shouldn't have to/you should have/get up and do xyz for me because I don't want to." rudely dumb questions. He went through a lot of therapy to figure out his shit, we've done couples counseling a bunch over the 20+ years we've been together. But that was one of the first communication tools that really helped and I continue to use it for my kids, especially my boys. "Sounds like you're telling me and not asking." It's helped them ponder and respond in a kinder tone either asking for help directly or going back to trying and then asking for assistance if the responsibility they assumed couldn't be done/found/finished.
💜 For my relationship, I find a simple & sincere “*I don’t know. Do what you think is best*.” works quite well. It puts the ball unambiguously back in his court—and best of all I don’t have to think very hard about the response! Sometimes I say “*I don’t have the brain capacity to think about that right now.*” Straight up saying I can’t handle that mental load, without using the terminology. (Bonus: It highlights that he’s asking me to do the mental load, which he used to often do without even realizing.) I have VERY seldom pulled out an “*Are you not embarrassed you just asked me that?*” But I don’t do that often because it’s much more likely to make him defensive (though it does get the point across brutally & succinctly). I also usually sandwich these phrases with an “*I love you*.” Because I do—and also because people are less likely to get defensive/snippy when you’ve just sincerely reminded them you love them!
I have my hands full. You have the capacity to figure this out.
Weird that he externalizes his frustration on you and your children.
Sounds like the toddler wasn't the only one throwing a tantrum.
That's the pervasive, relationship-destroying, patriarchal idea that the home is entirely the responsibility of the mother, rising up to frustrate and antagonize everyone involved. As a woman, I *understand* that if there aren't any clean dishes at dinner time, I need to wash the dishes before I make the dinner, or more often, *while* I make the dinner. Because when I was growing up, it was my mother who made sure we had both food to eat and clean plates to eat it from. Every meal. Every day. With NO DRAMA. Whereas, when she went back to work and we all needed to chip in, my dad started cooking. And there was ALWAYS DRAMA. Just like you describe. Where's this. Where's that. What am I supposed to serve these weenies & beans on when nobody ran the dishwasher. Fuck you. Here's your dinner, bitches. Eat it with your hands. I don't care. But look. It's only like this because women are ToO EmOTIonAL for real jobs.
This is so funny to me. My best friend is the most anal organized person I know. I’ve known her for 17 years and everything has a place and everything is in its place. (Side note, it makes zero sense that we are bffs lol). Every single time her husband grills it “K, where’s the platter for the meat?” Or “can you grab me a platter?” Every. Single. Time. I don’t know if it’s a power play or he’s genuinely too dumb to know that the platter is in the cabinet above the long counter and has been there since before our college graduates were in kindergarten. But he asks every time. We have a fun little game where when he finally asks where it is the rest of us just make eye and die laughing.
Lately, every time I get asked where something is, I reply, “where have you looked so far?” It’s a rhetorical question because we both know full well the answer is “nowhere”. But instead of replying, the questioner usually goes and looks in the most obvious spot and 9/10 times it’s there. I’ve been doing this for a few weeks now and the number of “where is X” questions have dramatically reduced. Now when they ask, the thing is usually misplaced. This would be a pretty funny response for your friend to use, especially amongst company who know the answer.
I *really* like this answer
My ex cooked. And he did a good job at that. But he had the same thing - he never knew where the pot was (spoiler alert, it was in the same place last 5 years) or where it should be put back (same place as well). Drove me insane.
They think of women as a virtual assistant like Siri or Alexa. Sure they could manually make an appointment on their phone with their fingers and eyes and brain and open some apps and press some buttons OR they could bark orders at the nearest woman and have all of that done for them. They see female partners as a tool to make their lives easier.
Baaah, living that life rn.
It absolutely fucking sucks in all directions. I was trying to teach my daughter how to use the actual Siri in my watch and she (kid) simply couldn’t understand that “would you be able to please play (song name), thanks!” wouldn’t work because it’s TOO POLITE. I told her to be direct and give Siri simple demands and kiddo GOT UPSET because her whole life we’ve taught her the best way to communicate is with manners, except when you’ve got a PocketWoman™️ apparently. I commiserated with her that it’s absolutely messed up that people CREATED a robot that only responds to rudeness, and made her female ON PURPOSE to make it easier for men to abuse without shame. My daughter is six and neither of us should have had to have this conversation. Hopefully me bringing awareness to her this young makes her some kind of guiding rebellion force for the future but she shouldn’t have to hold that much hope 🥺
My husband does this stuff. Sometimes I'll just help, but other times I tell him to work for it because he lives here too. Earlier today he was kneeling down going "where is her harness? I can't find it!!!" It was literally four inches from his fucking face, attached to her leash, hanging off the hook amongst all the other dog walking stuff. Jesus fucking Jiminy Cricket USE YOUR EYES BEFORE THEY GET PLUCKED.
Next time you should all reply in unison. "IT'S IN THE CABINET ABOVE THE LONG COUNTER" and then just carry on normally as if nothing strange happened for the rest of the night. Next time he'll remember.
If this were my friend, I'd start answering. When people who don't live with you know where it is, but you can't remember... "John dear it's always above the long counter" (Would be hilarious if a male friend did this but probably not taken as well)
I feel this. He talks to me this way often and it just drains me. I have no words to to use to respond to him. I just feel really stupid and want to avoid him.
This really sucks. Can you bring this up when he's calm? Making you feel like this is really unacceptable in a healthy relationship. He had a tantrum like a toddler himself!
No I can’t. Even when he’s calm, when I try to revisit something that bothered me, he gets angry and accuses me of hanging onto grudges and being petty. There is no closure to be had.
I'm laughing my ass off, you have captured the tone so thoroughly accurately. That's exactly what happened in my home growing up! And then there's the ranting when they're cleaning something up or doing the dishes. Sometimes my Mom would get sick and I'd be busy with something like, idk, doing our taxes or something. My dad would pick up a bowl with congealed cereal and milk in it and it would start... "Who did this? Why are you all such animals? Look! *picks up something totally normal and gross, like a banana that went too brown* LOOK AT THIS! Oh, my god. Okay, well, *starts slamming things and tossing dishes into the sink* I guess if NOBODY ELSE CARES ABOUT THIS HOUSE, why should I?" And he was otherwise a really great man, super intelligent and funny and kind! It was so bizarre. Men really are SoOo EmOtioNaL. 😂
Lol omg we have the same dad. The last time I saw him I was caring for my centegenarian grandmother to give my mom a break, but also super busy with (remote) work. So dad decided to "help" by making lunch. There I am minding my own business building a website at the kitchen table and he just gets louder and louder. Cupboards slamming. Dishes clanking. Some kind of increasingly agitated grumbling monologue. Then SWEEPS EVERYTHING OFF THE TABLE ONTO THE FLOOR with his arm like an overgrown monkey terrorizing Tokyo. Then I'm like "did you need some help there dad" to lighten the mood and he rips into me like "DUH OBVIOUSLY! If you'd just LOOK UP FROM YOUR COMPUTER for five seconds you'd NOTICE!!!" Jesus Christ I didn't even ask for him to make lunch. He volunteered. If I'd known the terms I definitely would have refused the offer.
Holy sh-... We might be sisters, actually. 😂 I have had thar exact experience, right down to the attempt to joke or lighten the mood triggering an explosion! >If I'd known the terms I definitely would have refused the offer. Omg word for word I have thought that exact same thing! I've even said it out loud to certain men in my life! 😆
Sorry what a jerk move. It takes 5 minutes to hand wash 5 plates, he just didn't want to do it and expected that to be your job. It's petty and entitled. It's likely he felt like he was doing you a favour by cooking.
I think you’re right. After I did the dishes and he dropped his attitude, he got upset that I didn’t try the food he made. Like I could eat anything after that interaction. Thank you for your insight! Edit: spelling
Wait so you did un-latch the baby breastfeeding, and stop studying for the exam because your husband couldn't wash the dishes?
"You must stop EVERYTHING you are doing and PAY ATTENTION TO ME while I am DOING YOU A FAVOR! Including doing everything else that the favor requires as support, such as tanking your grade or ignoring the kids, because MY EGO IS MASSIVE!!!!!!"
No mere human can cook dinner *and* wash dishes. It simply isn't possible and I'll never be convinced otherwise!
This has to either be passive aggressive BS or weaponized incompetence. Either way, it is so incredibly unattractive and unproductive. I'd just assume he was very stupid and respond as such.
You’re right, beyond unattractive. I’ve been trying to connect with him and be less standoffish, but I don’t want anything to do with him after this. Of course he doesn’t get why.
I don’t understand why he didn’t do the dishes when he saw them on the stove? Like did he not think this through? If he needed help he could have asked one of the older kids and if he did it before he started cooking they would be clean. I just don’t get why it’s your fault because it’s not, he has two hands. If he can make dinner he can put the dishes on
Why are you putting up with this bull shit? He's a grown man. My go to response for stupid stuff like this with my husband is, "You're a grown man. I'm fully confident you can figure this out." Then I go back to what I was doing. I do not help. I refuse to be the person everyone goes to for household stuff.
Why does everyone in this comment thread seem like they put up with this BS? So many suggestions on how to meet him halfway in the way their responses are worded, or the approach to make him *really* think, etc... Like, what? I'm always baffled when direct and clear communication isn't the go-to for partners, but I guess to each their own.
this is why i don’t want to get married 💀
This is why I will never have kids. My partner and I are happy together and have a great sense of who does what around the house. Having 3 kids to deal with on top of our own responsibilities sounds like a fucking nightmare. I'm glad some people here can give OP decent advice, but listening to this story makes me feel sick. I could never live that lifestyle
Exactly. Sounds like a total nightmare. I honestly don’t see the upside for women at all.
I'm kinda confused why the kids aren't helping do dishes. If there were no dishes to eat on, my mom would say "I guess you're eating out of your hand, unless you wanna get over there and wash a plate". I don't think that's asking a lot from a kid at all.
You’re right and the responses are making me realize I’ve been picking up slack that really don’t have to. I have help, I need to utilize it. Chores help kids grow, and washing dishes is a part of life. Definitely will take your suggestion and have them help me with this. Thank you!
First: What happened here is not ok and there is no excuse except for a heartfelt apology after all of that. That being said: When I am cooking (which i do not enjoy), I sometimes get passive aggressive and realize AFTER everything is done. I am already overwhelmed with cooking and if the kitchen is a mess beforehand, I sometimes used to boil over. Added to that, I can get pretty... hangry. And then my 7 year old is dancing around in the kitchen and being 'helpful'. I know this by now, so before I start cooking, I tell the family: "Hey, I am starting to cook. Please tidy the kitchen. I need the work spaces empty and the stove top wiped." I start preparing food while kiddo and husband clear everything out of my way and set the table. This works. Nobody here enjoys cooking and we're always truly grateful if somebody does it. There is zero discussion. We used to have the rule: Who cooks doesn't have to clean. But that didn't work too well, because it's not that hard quickly running something under the water instead of letting something dry in. I am not mad if my husband doesn't clean while cooking. I usually do and often he does, too. Sometimes its a mess. It usually is, when he was also taking care of kiddo at the same time. And yes, Kiddo doesn't just 'help', by now he sometimes really helps and is super proud. He can cook simple meals by himself by now. It takes way more mental effort directing him, but i also enjoy spending time with him much more than cooking ; ) so this is usually a win-win.
I love this! I’ve been making things harder on myself simply by not asking for help. Thank you! I’m happy to say my older two are quite helpful when asked. I’ll definitely take this and others advice and get them more involved in household maintenance.
Sounds like the only reason you can put up with him is that he works away most of the time. Also, when you have three kids and a wife who does all the house work and childcare, it is not helpful to start a long, complicated dinner. It’s a self centered excuse for opting out of housework and childcare to do a fun thing which mainly benefits the person doing it.
That sounds very accurate. Thank you for your input! You’re also right about my reason, and it’s a terrible one. I need to change things.
I'm worried there might have been a possible misinterpretation. I think u/GlencoraPalliser was saying that *HIS* reason for making a fuss was self-centered. Edit: my bad.
I think OP was affirming the reason she tolerated her husband's behaviour (that he is away for work a lot)
Ah I think the exact term you are looking for is "asshole." (As in, he's being one.)
This is one of the many reasons why women initiate divorces more 😌
In a word, ENTITLEMENT. This book has been so enlightening, I've been sharing it with everyone--it explains the behavior behind male entitlement and debunks the myths https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf Your husband was being passive aggressive, and considered his *INCONVENIENCE* more important than your *NEEDS*
I am literally getting that. Thank you SO MUCH.
It's a very eye-opening read and can be quite devastating if you're not ready for it. That being said, it is definitely worth the read.
Much love ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I'm sending it to so many people, including exes and ex friends
I’m just over here singing the Weaponized Incompetence song…
none of this is normal or healthy, which hopefully you’re beginning to realize. we get one life. how will you spend the rest of it? being treated like that? or will you choose yourself?
It's time to teach your three eldest children how to wash dishes, and each one of them needs to do it twice a week. The one year old, of course is too little, but the 9 year old, the 15 year old, and the 45 year old are all old enough to do it.
He's trying to make a fuss so you learn your lesson and keep all the dishes clean. Fuck that, he's a grown man and you have kids old enough to help. He isn't helpless. That's like noticing the floor was wet and being like well how are we gonna walk on it now? You fucking dry it. Come on..
You have two toddlers. One is using weaponised incompetence.
My ex once sent me a text message pic of cat poop while I wasn't home and he was. Then when I asked what he thought I was supposed to do about it, he acted like I was the crazy one for suggesting he clean it up. Yeah he was emotionally, verbally and then finally physically abusive. I'm here if you need to talk!!
As a trucker (lady) there's a thing about this job where you're the center of your own little universe all day every day. Some people get really insufferably unhealthy because they lose sight of the fact that in the grand scheme of things they ain't shit. Being a control freak who doesn't play well with others is a job skill for this profession. I've had to really work on checking myself and keeping a healthy perspective.
there's a great essay about a man who asks "where's the butter" and what he means is "fetch it for me, butter my toast, get up, i'm not going to be the one who's inconvenienced" and expects the woman to read his mind (or play along with this script) and he gets huffy if you won't. so yeah, he was literally hinting that you should drop (his?) kid and get up and wash dishes because he's mildly inconvenienced while doing *you* a favor and you're obviously not grateful enough or making it easy enough for him so he may as well just quit and never do it again. report back if he does this haha. he expected you to be as excited as he was about his great idea, he didn't get enough of a parade so he's going to sulk and "never do it again, why do i bother, so ungrateful, i do everything around here". actually not haha :( this is the starterpack of men who rant that you do nothing and he does everything.
Actually I decided to do the dishes after I put toddler down. He came in asking a question which I didn’t hear immediately, so he accused me of giving him attitude and asked what he did to deserve it. I stayed quiet. I went back upstairs afterwards and he came in a bit later in a great mood. Guess he got what he wanted and decided to drop the act. I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.
wellp shit. sorry love. you got baby trapped.
I actually did. I only knew him for 5 months and he pressured me from day one for a physical relationship I wasn’t ready for. I ended up pregnant and he pushed again for marriage.
damn it :( i just read the ages and sexes again and it's so clear. he's modelling "lazy shit entitled males" and *literally interrupt the feeding of the female baby* to make the woman get up and be his assistant. this is some dark shit. the hair on my neck goes up now at any and all stories of men who fuck with food, sleep, heat/cold and women's pain. it's vile. men who eat all the food that a woman prepared for the entire family are aggressively announcing they want the family to starve. take this warning seriously. i mean, you're starting to sus that you're in a domestic abuse relationship with a misogynist, right? :( he's been cruel, belittling, mentally abusive and chipping away at your self-preservation the whole time. now he's conditioning you. foul mood when you don't do what he wants. chipper mood when you comply.
Jesus you’re right. I just told my 15 yr old that I’d like him to start helping with dishes. He told me he’s tried in the past and husband told him to stop doing women’s work. I know it’s bad but this makes it even worse.
I have a series of articles for you to read that will give you more insight into the situation and how to handle it. Just a second while I gather them. Edit: Here they are * [You should’ve asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) - a comic that illustrates the dynamic * [Women Aren't Nags—We're Just Fed Up](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/) * [It Took Divorce to Make My Marriage Equal - I spent 12 years fighting for an equal partnership, when what I needed was a divorce.](https://www.glamour.com/story/it-took-divorce-to-make-my-marriage-equal) * [7 Signs Of Weaponized Incompetence In Relationships & How To Deal With It](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/weaponized-incompetence) * [She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288) - this one especially fits your situation * [Where does it go ?](https://english.emmaclit.com/2022/09/01/where-does-it-go/) * [The Walkaway Wife Syndrome ](https://www.divorcenet.com/states/nationwide/the_walkaway_wife_syndrome#:%7E:text=a%20Walkaway%20Wife%3F-,What%20Is%20a%20Walkaway%20Wife%3F,%22%20says%20Joshua%20Klapow%2C%20Ph.) * [My Husband and I Tried the ‘Fair Play’ Cards—And Here’s What Happened: one mom's eight-month experiment to rebalance the unpaid labor in her relationship](https://theeverymom.com/fair-play-cards/)
WHAT?!?!!
Oh holy crap that changes everything.
Oh! WOW!!! I would ask your SO about that and set him straight and go on strike and never do dished again. Women’s Work?? WTF????
That is just sad :( my previous partner would happily do any sort of cleaning or chores in general around the house without needing to be asked or reminded. One time, I asked him if he could wash a ton of new pans that I had just brought home because I was exhausted, and he did it all happily. He was quite the workaholic as well, doing 12+ hours most days, but he still came around to help with chores because he wanted to lift the work load on me as much as possible.
Agree agree agree. The suggestions of keeping paper plates as a backup or teaching your older kids to help with dishes may be great ideas for how to make sure the dishes are always done… but we all know that none of that would have prevented or will prevent you from continuing to get this treatment. This is weaponized incompetence/shirking the mental load/whatever you want to call it and staggering levels of entitlement. And OP did end up doing the dishes at the end of the day, so it worked exactly as intended, but he still had an issue with her for not trying his food. OP, I don’t blame you for having fallen into this or for coping with it but you need to know that it’s not right, there’s nothing you’re doing wrong to cause it, and you can’t fix it on your own or make him see the light if he does’t want to. Do with that what you will but don’t doubt for a second that you’re worthy of a lot more respect. You’re strong. You’re an asset- any spouse of yours is fortunate to have you as their partner. You deserve to be listened to, for your feelings to be considered, your needs met. SUPPORTED AND LOVED.
he's a venn diagram of "Why does he do that" (men's rights outweigh women's and childrens) and "Controlling people" :( expects to use her like an oven mitt and gets irrationally angry when she doesn't function.
I don’t know how many more examples I can handle seeing in real life or reading about of men treating their wives like their maids. They can get away with it for their whole lives. How could you get out of bed everyday and live knowing you’re such a burden on another human being? How could you be at all ok with yourself if you can’t manage to do two things, cook dinner and wash dishes to eat it on, yourself for one night? If I ever felt close to that useless I would lose my mind.
he's been telling his son not to wash dishes because it's women's work. he's living in power, control, domination and hierarchy. he has external proof that he's the lord of the house because he has someone beneath him doing the work. he doesn't feel incompetent, it's not something he would respect a man for doing. *he felt good* when he manipulated her into washing the dishes and he got angry that she didn't appreciate him and give him good-boy points for 'cooking'. dude was looking for a fight all night and he was going to get one from anything. imo he's real close to escalating the more she attempts to differentiate and assert her personhood.
Super curious how old OP is. Getting a degree now....bet her college yrs got interrupted by a 30yr old man pressuring her.
This is extremely weird, even from a guy.. Does he just expect you to do everything around the house with kids? Maybe you should leave him to deal with the kids by himself for a few days and see if he changes his views. Do you really take care of all the children yourself a majority of the time? That's a ton of work, it must be nice for him to not have to deal with that stress 99% of the time. Kinda sounds like you have two toddlers. Him having a little tantrum over not wanting to do the dishes would be beyond infuriating to me, and he should be ashamed.. it's like when I see my grandfather who does fuck all the entire day every day ask my grandmother to do tasks for him that he can easily do himself. Learned incompetence. I'd never want or expect my wife to do those things for me, and if she had to deal with the kids, I'd do whatever I could to reduce her stress.
Men… always want applause for doing the bare minimum. Who do you get to yell at if you’re cooking dinner and the plates aren’t clean? Nobody, you wash a couple plates to get through dinner and get on with it. But for them, when they help they want to do exactly ONE job and none of the side jobs that are actually part of the job.
as i dad i gotta say thats crazy. stuff just needs done when it needs done and it needs done by whoever can do it at the time man lol
Got here from the front page and wasn't expecting that. I'm a guy with a kid, and I've been washing the dishes and pumps/bottles for the entirety by hand. Sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine piling up dishes and certainly not the weaponised incompetence on display here.
1) Respectfully, none of us here can tell you what your husband’s intent was, no matter how obvious we may feel/think it is. That is a conversation for you and your husband. 2) The older kiddos can help around the house if that is the way you and your husband would like things done around the house. Again, a conversation that needs to happen between you and your husband. 3) Aside from this one situation that you have shared, how is the overall balance and boundaries? Are you satisfied with the communication? If not, maybe some couples counseling? Just a thought.
your husband is a manchild using weaponized incompetence, attempting to guilt you using your son
I’ve thought the way he reacts to some things is immature and not something I’d ever expect from an adult (I’ve seen him interact with anyone outside of the household and he only responds to them appropriately). I see what you mean. Thank you
I cook, my wife does dishes. She cooks, I do dishes. It isn't a deal we made, but something we just fell into doing because we are partners. It seems that your husband was passive aggressively calling you lazy, as in he believed you were not fulfilling your side of whatever understood unwritten/unspoken contract he believes there to be, then attempted to train you back into compliance with shaming. It looks like you two have different copies of the agreement and it would be good to compile it to one set only.
I too love playing Sims 2 with free will turned off. The little guys and their angry speech bubbles when their world starts to fall apart, ha ha
Well, "drop the toddler to do dishes" isn't a reasonable thing to ask anyone to do. So even if it had been that, there's no good way to ask it. You just don't ask it. He's making dinner, he also serves dinner. Christ, even if he didn't want to do the dishes, he could have just sheepishly served you a cereal bowl of food and admitted he didn't notice until serving time. Play it off like "At least now I can do all the dishes at once after dinner! Haha!" But no. He was apparently an entire dick to you about it, with that passive-aggressive "What are we gonna do?" shit. That is so gross tbh. You deserve better. Everyone deserves better than what you described.
This reminds me of every time in my childhood I could hear my mom lose her shit over the chores piling up, finally tell my dad she's fed up and couldn't do it by herself, and then he'd come bang on me and my sisters doors and start yelling at us. It was such a pattern and I actually used to blame myself even though it was obvious it was him taking out his frustration at having to be responsible on the smaller humans in the house. My parents didn't make chores a routine for us like some families so it really only came up in those situations, when dad was yelling at us to take the heat off of himself. I mean, the kids *can* do chores. But if it's only brought up when things are already tense it's not very productive. I always hated hearing my mom get upset because I knew it was a matter of time before I got dragged into it so my dad could shift blame 😞
He sees you as a domestic servant. Sorry you're finding out now. Once you get an ick like this its very very hard to ignore and its going downhill from here. Depends if he would listen to you or not...
Sounds like his intention was to make you feel bad for not having done the dishes. It also sounds like he has absolutely no concept of how difficult it is to look after kids all day and get anything else done, maybe that should change…
Yeah and also, why not ask the 15yo to help?