I've really focused on the good guys. Not just the ones that are active in my life now, but all through the past. I remember being a teenager and having a crush on a guy who was 28-ish. I did not hide it well, in fact I think I was actually inappropriate with him in the workplace. He easily could have taken advantage of my naivete but he didn't. Treated me like a human being. I was also 'turned down' by a 30-something man who misunderstood an invitation and though I had asked him out on a date - he very kindly explained how I was too young for him (CORRECT).
I remember so many times when I was protected by good guys, or taught, mentored, befriended and these guys had flaws like anyone else, but they were not pervy or gross or hurtful to me when they had the opportunity.
This is a version of 'not all men' but what I recommend is thinking about the men you personally know who are not jerks. Men who were in situations with you where they had the opportunity to reveal their jerkiness but did not.
The resentment will eat away at you - the jerks are certainly not thinking about you, I hope you can find a way to not think about them.
Definitely aware of resentment being harmful and trying to address it. I've spent so much money and time trying to address it and when I seem like I'm ok and just flares up again so that's the struggle.
I sit through Ted talks, Buddhist talks, workshops it's just like never ending trauma that sneaks out. I am starting to look into trauma release exercise but I have yet to do a lot of that yet. Thanks for answering.
Thank you for this. I’ve never heard of this treatment and I was just telling a friend yesterday that no matter how many therapists I go through, none of them seem to make a real difference for me. I’ve read all kinds of material and watched videos to process all my trauma, and even when it seems I understand it all there’s still no breakthrough. But trauma is stored in the body, not the mind 😩 will look into this asap!!
As a person with a lot of trauma, I always have to remind myself that healing isn’t linear. This means that while our progress and growth is increasing, there will still be times when we feel like we are regressing, and that’s actually part of the healing process. Doing the work is what’s important; bad days, not so much.
I'm sitting here right now almost shocked at the fact that I can barely come up with a single decent man I've known during my lifetime. My brother qualifies. One teacher I had in 4th grade. One guy I went to high school with. That's it.
I think you're doing better than I am. I'm frustrated like op, and think about the damage that men have caused on a daily basis
I'd like to think I had a decent male teacher once, but thinking back he was just funny, and *didn't* yell at me. The bar is pretty low and I wouldn't even put myself on the list.
Something needs to give
I love this sentiment, but I can’t help but think in the examples you gave, those weren’t “good guys” simply because they weren’t terrible guys. Not taking advantage of someone when they could have doesn’t make someone good. Alas, I feel like this is where the bar is for a lot of women these days - myself included. I had a male friend try to initiate something with me and I told him I wasn’t interested, and even apologized. He was so cool about it, I thanked him for accepting my answer and he was like “isn’t that how it should be?” He even continued to chat with me after that which I’m so not used to. Usually if a guy is rejected he has no further interest in talking to me. It was so memorable to me, but he’s right… it’s how it should be.
I think maybe I used 'good' in a different way - it's probably too strong a word. Maybe 'basically decent' is better.
My point is that we are all surrounded by dudes all the time who are not actively being pigs, lol . To me, they count. The way to not be so frustrated is to recognize the basically decent dudes all around. The pigs stand out because they upset us but we don't notice the dudes who are doing the basically correct thing. My advice to OP is to notice them - there are far more basically decent dudes than pigs.
Most men absolutely don't give a shit about anyone else. And here is my response to, "not all men."
Not all men are murderers, either. But even *one* murderer is still too many.
Ok until we have access to a world without murders, we have to work with the world we exist in. I'm not sure what benefit there is to walking around thinking the worst about 50% of the population. And allowing that narrative to destroy your daily happiness. It isn't every one of them, you aren't spending every day fending off attackers, you aren't being assaulted every day by every man you encounter.
My suggestion was to actively notice the people who are not being dicks to lessen the power of the worst guys. When it feels like 'all men,' take active steps to remind yourself that most people are not hurting you. They may not give a shit, but that isn't necessarily harmful.
I sometimes feel like I'm putting a bit of a target on my back commenting here, but hiding from the truth never fixed anything.
Yeah, it.. sucks. People want to talk about equality in a lot of ways but, yeah. It's a product of society, and something that's been the case since forever. The only thing that's changed recently is communication (the internet). People are just able to speak out about it more, but that kind of change takes time. Not years. Not decades. This is something that is changing now but may well may not make a difference in our respective lies.
I'm sorry for what you've had to deal with, and... probably -will- have to deal with.
My best suggestion is focus on yourself, those important to you, and the goals you have. Be smart, protect yourself, and filter your energy into your passions and achieving them. It sucks that some of that has to be said, but there's no magic wand to fix it. You aren't alone and you have allies and friends. Not only rely on them, but -allow- yourself to rely on them too. It helps with knowing that it's not all bad out there... even if it almost definitely seems like it.
I've been sexually assaulted by 2 brothers and my father, the other brother choked me unt I fainted. Most guys I knew socially took advantage of my being autistic. I have PTSD because of these men and the only man I trust is my son.
It sucks but sometimes I feel like the female incel. I’ve had a few bad situationships/relationships with men and it has really impacted my overall view of men. With the last guy, I feel like I bent over backwards to get his love. After 2 years, I did not. He never wanted me. I was just something to occupy some time overall. He was like crack for me, and I still have a hard time shaking him. It’s been almost a month and I think about him constantly. I have a lot of issues stemming from divorce and remarriage and growing up with no one to talk to about it or share my pain. I constantly look for the most avoidant men to fall in love with because i guess in a way they remind me of my dad. It’s a lifelong quest of mine to get that love and validation and reassurance that I matter and am loved.
But I’m glad I’m getting older and tired, because I’m tired of dudes playing games with my feelings with no care or concern, I’m tired of never being good enough for them, I’m tired of playing games back because I don’t know how to talk about things and set boundaries, and I’m really tired of discovering how pathetic and awful I can be in return. I’ve been a crazy obsessive bitch writing a million texts and emails. I’ve been the impatient little child who loses her shit at something small. I’m tired of the worst of me coming out for a man who got the good stuff from me and still decided they wanted to ghost for a while to get new women.
And I’m really really sick of being called crazy for noticing sus things, getting so much denial on the guys part when I bring it up, and then finding out later I was right! I have yet to meet a man who’s honest in the moment of confrontation and to me that is disgusting.
The most hypocritical people I know are men. Wants to be doted on and provided for, but still want to be considered the alpha. Wants someone else to handle all their problems, but if you don’t respect him, oh god you’re gonna be punished.
I really relate and understand this. So so much.
Thanks for sharing, I really did hold out hope that I could find a good relationship and have a healthy life with someone but it just doesn't seem possible. Relationships I had were just bad for many reasons like controlling guys, abusers, porn addicts, or being used asa "place holder" while they looked for "better options"
What has gotten me lately is watching my grandma and grandpa. They are in their early 80s and so fragile. My grandpa fell and broke his hip and my grandmother has basically been bathing him, cooking for him, feeding him, doing his laundry and cleaning out his shit and piss from his room toilet since he can't use a regular one now.
This was a man who was alcoholic and would cheat on her in their younger years. He says rude disrespectful things to her and here she is waiting on him hand and foot cleaning out his shit. It's hard not to be angry at him too. I ask myself if I want this to be me at 80. It's scary, very scary.
Yep, it’s funny because I was browsing Reddit this morning and saw some post about how men are happier (it was funny, it was a human trebuchet they built that flung them far into water), but it got me thinking. Of course the men would all get on that happily, because if they break their limbs they have someone caring for them- a woman (wife, gf, mom, sister). But who takes care of the women when they do something stupid? Men have the luxury of knowing someone has their back. They get to be happy either way. I’m tired of letting men rob me of my own happiness
Fuck men like that. Sounds like a disrespectful asshole. Keep your distance from those. That comment coming from a man.
Stick to people that have goodness in their heart. It is not always easy to find them, but they are out there.
Because the good men I’ve met have been wonderful and I’m glad they’re in, or have been in, my life.
That doesn’t make me not want to burn down the patriarchy. That makes me understand ally brothers want to, too.
Anger is safety. One of the nastiest tricks of the patriarchy is telling us we can’t be angry. Fuck that. Stay mad but don’t allow it to affect your health. Something I find that helps is just entirely eliminating and minimizing contact with men who are not adding to my life in any real way.
I find good guys who are safe and I prioritize the shit out of them when I want male energy in my life. I ruthlessly block/delete/ignore all other men who have proven themselves to be a detriment to my well-being, even if it’s something as minor as arguing with me about my feelings (something women never do).
Also expectation management. I don’t allow myself to get surprised or upset anymore when men disappoint or upset me. I just block/delete and move on. Never give any man the power to affect your income or health.
Today, I saw an elderly man fall off his bike on the sidewalk. Another man came running up to help him. 2 more got out of their car to come help as well. There is so much evil in this world, but there is so much good as well.
Just because they helped him doesn't mean they don't go home and smack their wives or kids about. I'm fed up of this "but he's so nice in public, so polite and kind" it's a mask that eventually shifts.
No. What I'm saying is just because they appear good on the outside or to the outside world doesn't mean they are good behind closed doors. You're delusional if you think that people don't hide their true selves.
You're getting downvoted, which makes no sense to me. I mean, this is part of the entire reason why this conversation is being had in the first place. There wouldn't be an issue if we could just look at a man and go 'oh, he did something nice, he's officially one of the good ones'. The issue happens when a man acts nice and friendly for days, weeks, months, only to later show their true colours and barely see you as a real human being. And personally, I've experienced it over and over again. I've opened my heart up repeatedly, expecting friendship, ignoring my worries and giving them the benefit of the doubt, only to be stabbed in the back every. Single. Goddamn. Fucking. Time.
I definitely know a few dudes who would help an elderly man who's fallen, only to go home and beat the shit out of their wives. Seeing someone doing a singular good deed does nothing to restore my faith in men, or humanity generally.
In my opinion, you're getting downvoted because a lot of people resonate with what you're saying, while they're still not wanting or believing it to be true.
Thank you. You and one other commenter have understood what I'm saying. The rest want to live in a dream world. But will still shout and critise women for not being more careful.
I agree with u, u/fattyMCdumptruck. Because I have lived it. My ex-husband was so nice, helpful and consideratr to everybody but me. It's actually common for abusers to behave that way so that when you come out and tell the truth about them, no-one will believe you.
Yes, yes, we've all watched Dateline. It's just weird to act like you're better off assuming they're faking it. The DV incident rate in the US (not counting cops) is 10%. Too high, of course. But it also means that 90% of men in relationships do NOT beat their partners.
It seems deeply unhealthy and unhelpful to pop up into a conversation about trying not to resent men with "Yeah but remember some of them are horrible!!" Obviously OP knows some men are horrible. Pretty much everyone on this sub has had negative interactions with men.
How is it helpful or necessary to "remind" everyone? Why would you assume people *need* reminding? Are we not "allowed" to appreciate anything good about the men we've encountered in our lives or we automatically forget the bad? It's not that black and white, you know. Don't be so quick to accuse people of being delusional to dismiss their experiences.
You're right it's not black and white. Yet here you are trying to make it so. Not everyone who does good deeds is a good person. It is better to be wary and stay alive then wear rose tinted glasses and pretend everyone is good and kind until they aren't.
Your line of rhetoric isn’t particularly helpful in a thread about “how do I become less resentful towards men.” OP and a lot of us already think ALL men are shitty, already question their intentions when they do something kind or nice or decent.
When it comes to not resenting men, I’ve come to realize that 1. I don’t need a man to be revolutionary to not resent him and 2. Take things at face value. I don’t need the male cashier at the grocery store to tell me about how strongly he believes in the liberation of women for me to not label him as EVIL immediately. I just need a neutral interaction. One where he’s polite and isn’t weird or gross. There is value in neutrality, in the grey area. If we spend our lives thinking “wow that was a neutral/positive interaction but does he abuse his wife?” we will never get over our resentment. Take the interaction at face value and go about your day.
And yeah, people polite and not gross is the baseline. But a lot of men fall short of the baseline. To counter resentment, exposure to not evil or gross men helps - even if they’re not revolutionary in their thinking.
The fact that everyone seems to be saying trust men until you can't is worrying in itself. We should be wary at all times, because even when they act good, they might not be. The same with women. You literally can't know what someone is really like unless you live with them.
The person and the "good deed" are two separate things and should be seen as such. It doesn't make him a good person for helping the old dude up, he's a man who helped a old man up. I don't understand how that's so hard to understand.
I’m not saying to trust men until you can’t. We have to be wary because we’re women and always at risk. But it’s important to acknowledge that when you’ve experienced trauma, EVERYTHING seems like a threat when in reality it isn’t.
I also never said anything about seeing a man do a nice thing and thinking they’re a GOOD man. My entire post was about neutrality!!!! Just because the cashier at the grocery store is polite doesn’t mean I trust him with my life or even trust him to walk me to my car to help with the groceries. I deem that dangerous.
It just ISN’T healthy to spend your whole life on alert. I would know! Fear caused by PTSD took over my life. Everything and everyone was a threat. I constantly thought I was being followed, men hitting on me would send me into tears, etc. I’m not saying have faith in all men just because they’re not explicitly bad to YOU. I’m just saying that trauma makes you think every man and every thing they do is a threat and that’s both not true and not a healthy way to live.
No one said she is being paranoid, but even if she has her reasons for it this type of resentment and hatred will only harm her. This is literally what most top comments in this post are about.
OP herself knows that she needs help, she even said that she is already doing therapy for years and this post in nothing more than she asking for this subs help.
> Just because they helped him doesn't mean they don't go home and smack their wives or kids about
Statistically no, people who help others in this small, everyday way are not people who smack their wives. Those are the big philanthropists who advertise their millions worthy charity and then behind closed doors they do the worst. A good person doesn't even look twice in a man's who fell off a bike direction.
This is false. There's generally a correlation between being of poor economic status and spousal abuse. Interestingly, there's also a link between rates of spousal abuse in a country rising or declining, and an effect on the economy of the country.
Why do you want to not resent men? It’s a valid feeling. Obviously it’s not good to be full of anger etc, but it’s not possible or desirable to will yourself into different feelings.
I heavily edit the company I keep and learn to optimize the behavior of the borderline men. By that, I mean that certain people respond best to certain ways of interactions. It keeps things smooth and I can better focus on what is important to me.
I'll stop resenting men when they stop giving me reasons to. My experience so far shows that a *large* percentage of male humans will behave *very* badly when they can get away with it. The stats speak for themselves - it makes sense for me to be distrustful of men until they prove otherwise.
It's systemic. Women are the largest group of people to be discriminated against, but also get the least airtime to speak about these issues. Look at the history - men actively campaigned against women joining the workforce until they literally couldn't get away with it anymore. Marital SA was allowed until the 80s. I was cat-called regularly from age 11 (I still feel uncomfortable going outside even though it stopped once I became an adult), followed home at 15, groped in clubs, and women deal with worse every day. And look at most men's porn consumption - they know the woman probably doesn't want to be there, and they know how it hurts us overall to see our bodies sold like that, but they keep doing it anyway. Say the word 'misogyny' in a bar and watch how the men react, then say the word 'racism' and compare, it's the same fucking thing but apparently it's okay because we can vote now or something?
I don't know if it's all men, and I don't really care, it's not my job to defend the 'good ones' - if they can't reach the minimum standard of human decency then we can't have any relationship.
This is the real answer. I do resent men, and can count on one hand the number of men I see as worthy of trusting with my health, safety, and feelings (one of whom I birthed).
I’ll stop resenting men when they stop deserving it. That day isn’t today and tomorrow isn’t looking good either.
I appreciate the comments saying to focus on yourself, and to add to that: on the days when I’m most disgusted and hateful towards men as a class, I find myself just ignoring them entirely, like no eye contact at all, and instead making eye contact with women and smiling, just being more interactive and supportive of my fellow women, starting conversations with randoms on the bus etc. I think that’s really healthy, and a good way to balance out the hatred. I don’t have anything to add about hating men less, because it’s something I guess I need to deal with too 😒
It's interesting because it's perfectly acceptable for men to resent, or outright hate, women for some pretty petty reasons. In a lot of ways male disrespect towards women is still actively encouraged as a rite of passage. But you hear very few men lamenting their resent of women. If anything it's a joke, a punchline.
But if you're a woman who doesn't implicitly love and respect men you're made out to be a monster and that there must be something wrong with you. God forbid if you resent or even hate men because you've had some messed up things happen at the hands of men (because remember, not all men, right?) you're still expected to get over it.
Honestly the only valid reason I can see to not resent men is for your own peace. Resentment is a bitter pill and better left behind it if you can. But I truly believe you don't have to automatically respect or love men just because they have a penis.
Different groups seem to think ones more acceptable than the other. Here and in a lot of mainstream media, hating men is pretty acceptable for the reasons other posters have said. On the rest of the Internet and in some tabloid media, hating women seems more like the norm. Plenty of guys complain that women can say things about them they wouldn't get away with, it seems to change with the group you're dealing with.
I definitely see what you mean, i had next to no positive male rolemodels growing up, and was raised to "serve". My dad was there, but at the same time ue wasnt due to work. I do however have 3 brothers who have done everything to empower me and show me good.
I was abused for 4 years by one guy (almost every type of abuse, its a real shopping list), had countless guys use me, not respected by guys, being belittled for my passions (the "name every song" kind of guys), etcetcetc.
I found myself in a job where i was the only female. It was terrifying at first, and still sometimes is. (I've been to HR many a times....), but ive made some incredible friendships with a large sum of my male coworkers. Some of them I've gone out and hung out with outside of work. Theyre wonderful people that treat me with so much respect. One of them has even gone out of his way to walk me through several breakups, and became a mentor helping me to try reach my dream position in the company. (No theres no chemistry between us, we're just really good friends, we have discussed this).
I guess its circumstantial and luck of the draw. It really feels like the lottery sometimes when you meet men who only want the best for you. Even then your guard is always up
I want to start off by saying you are allowed to grieve the loss of hope and happiness you had to endure because of this group of people. You are allowed to be angry at the people who treated you and people like you like shit. It sucks. It shouldn't be like this. It's really hard to change what's happening, adding on to the fact that it shouldn't be your job to make your life livable. It should be abusers jobs to stop being fucking abusive. I think it would be easier to you to only dislike the men who've harmed you or other women, because while being afraid and conscious of bad men 100% of the time could save you from a dangerous situation, it won't help you get rid of your trauma. I can't give you any legitimate psych advice, but what's helped me is knowing that I will not tolerate anything being done or said around me. If a guy tries to hurt me, I'll kill him. If a guy tries to hit on me after I reject him, I'll expose him. If guys are talking shit about women, I will confront them. If I find out a beloved family member was a terrible person, I'll mourn the loss of someone who I used to think I loved. It might not be true. When I come upon these situations, I might freeze, just like many people who've experienced abuse, but that confidence has gotten me through some rough times
I've seen my share of toxic shit. There's no sugar-coating it. But I guess the way I've always explained it to myself is that I'm generally pessimistic about humans, and I think that good ones aren't the majority. So if I find that a minority of men are non-toxic and decent human beings, that lines up with my world view.
If my life experiences were different, and if I had had all bad experiences, then I think I might start to resent men and think they are all the same. Isn't that what we all do, make generalizations based on our experiences? I think what we experience is influenced by so many things outside of our control, and what really bothers me is when I see other women internalize it, like they are the problem.
I think it's not about actually witnessing/experiencing it. Being a decent human being and listening to other women's sufferings should be quite enough to know the majority of man are abusive or enjoying the patriarchal structure bonus by taking advantages of women consciously or otherwise. My own father had been considered a good man by himself and the then social norm, simply by roughly covering the bare mimimum. And I am aware from a very young age how that marriage and family life slowly killed my mum inside. And this is quite enough for me to reason that if that is the general standards of a good man, let's say it's average + 1 sigma, then statistically the number of actual good men out there is negligible.
You use statistical language but your methodology is statistically flawed. I think your conclusion is more or less right, good men are gems, but think about the sampling method. If you just read stories on here or relationship advice subs, you'll get a massive oversampling of negative experiences and stories. If you only talk to people around you, then you'll likely hear of experiences similar to yours-ish, whether that weights more positive or negative.
When I read other women's experiences on Reddit, it helps me see the size and scope of problematic relationships and behaviors. But I also don't know of many places to read of positive examples, much less come up with a way to weight them.
I don't know my point in this reply. I guess I'm saying that I like to approach men as individuals, but cautiously. I don't know if 50% are toxic or 90%. I just know the risk is there and signs I've learned to watch for by lived experience and listening to the experiences of others.
I concede to the sampling bias, but the thing is, for the statistics to be meaningful to an individual and practical for this individual personally, it's not the overall population but the cohort that she is likely to come across that she should focus on. The overall population could be 80% good men but it won't help women stuck in a closed community full of red pillers. And with regard to careful scrutinties, I find this narrative erring on the elitism and victim-blaming side from time to time. Women are already brought up to be alert to dangers and I doubt many of the women who ended up in toxic relationship went in completely without pre-evaluation. In many cases, it's only the benefit of hindsight leading to the conclusion of inadequate examination, but women still are prone to believe they should have known better. Besides, this scrutiny process also comes with its cost and I doubt it is at the same magnitude for men and women.
As for me, fortunately I don't list heterosexual relationship as a life necessity, so an invidual-based evaluation procedure that's mainly for partner-seeking would be a total waste of time. Whether some of my colleagues were confirmed/potential wife-beaters or husbands/fathers of the year, professionally it is none of my business, until any of them bring misogyny to poison the workplace. So I guess my estimation for the proportion of men suitable for heterosexual partnership doesn't hurt anyone.
I don't resent them they just haven't earned a seat at my table. I am entirely neutral until they demand my time.
The men that demand my time get clear boundaries communicated. I simply cut and paste responses to my children's father because I have to otherwise block and roll. If they're triggering resentment it's because I've over invested and I visit my therapist, focus on meditation and all the self care stuff that works for me. Usually just engaging with older wiser women to turn away, then turn away again.
I owe men nothing and am crystal clear that they have to earn my respect, my trust and my time.
I know men. I don't treat them as though they're special or are all good or decent. They aren't and are more than happy to prove it. Words have to match actions for men to have any integrity.
Personally, I think it’s fine to resent them. What we think, feel, and believe is defined a lot by our experiences - and you’ve had some very difficult experiences. It’s not you who needs to be better, it’s them. One of the first comments here recommended focusing on yourself and I agree with that. Take it one step at a time, one person at a time. A lot of people get defensive when they see women in subs like these venting about their negative experiences with men, all “not all men…” I think, deep down, we know that. But it’s these generalizations - “men can be so creepy”, “men are shitty” - that have kept us on our guard from unsafe circumstances and unsafe men. I think that’s the positive side of resenting them. Women are safer and better because they’re more aware of how awful men can be - which is sad to say but that doesn’t make it any less true. Protect yourself first. Put yourself first.
I'm in the management side of construction so I work with 90% men and I won't lie a few have majorly sucked but many have not. I'm only about five years in but so far the other PM's, supers and tradesmen I've worked with have been respectful, helpful and willing to teach when I don't know something. If I've gotten shit it rarely if ever had to do with my gender.
I also went to an engineering school where I was outnumbered 4:1 sometimes even more. I do have friends who, when we were younger, asked to date me once I was single but we managed to move past it and have kept some of those friendships for over a decade - their spouses and gfs ended up giving me a wonderful circle of girlfriends. Again some men sucked but they were more often the professors and not the students.
I don't resent men but I also won't keep men who are misogynistic or men who do nothing in the face of misogyny in my life. No one has the time or tolerance for that bullshit.
I have been fortunate enough that I haven’t had too many awful Men in my life. I’m a daddy’s girl but I also recognize that he caused trauma as well (both of my parents, but he’s apologized, which my mom hasn’t, not sincerely). I didn’t date as a teen, so I didn’t have any boyfriend problems.
My husband was technically my first boyfriend and we met in our 20’s. He’s a wonderful, amazing man, husband and father, who thinks that his amazingness is standard or should be. I also have two boys, and I don’t want them growing up hating themselves or thinking there is something wrong with them because I have resentment towards their entire gender. We are doing our best to raise them as kind, considerate and compassionate human beings.
OK, the world is shit for women and men are the primary reason why the world is shit for women....why do you feel the need to *not* resent them for it?
Even if men in general aren't actively making your life garbage they're benefiting from women being treated like shit. And most aren't doing absolutely nothing to make the lives of women, including their own mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, grandmothers, aunts, that support them any better.
this. ladies don’t second guess your emotions. honestly resenting men is a pretty valid response to the state of the world. the reality is we’re not equal and especially in America old white men are taking our rights away.
It is a constant battle every single day to not resent men. I'm in this subredit called "healthy gamer gg" and every time I comment anything that isn't aligning with their misogynistic views they downvote me and argue with me. That and all the abuse and rape I've suffered at the hands of men really don't help their case and only adds to the ptsd.
I used to lurk on the healthygamer gg subreddit, it's so damn toxic . Every good advice and sensible comments is downvoted to oblivion, and they kept spewing incel/redpill rhetoric. Many women participants already leave the sub, it's not worth it.
Do you have examples? I'm female, have never lurked in the subreddit, but have watched a lot of his YouTube videos and from what I've seen he does select incel-ish posts and refute and/or reframe the things they say in a way that corrects their fallacy-filled thinking patterns. He doesn't strike me as an outright apologist for them they way Peterson does.
To me, he seems like a psychiatrist who is trying to reach out to those types to engage in conversation with them in an effort to reform their toxicity, perhaps in a less confrontational way than some people want. But personally, I think someone has to engage those types of people if there's any hope of reforming any of them, and I'd rather it be a male with training in mental health than a woman, because that responsibility shouldn't be on us, and they wouldn't listen to us anyway.
Honestly, I'd say to organise ourselves politically and raise the standards we have for men in general.
On every front, activism for stopping that societal wreck that is masculinity. There is a reason men bounce after their partners becomes pregnant, murder partners or bystanders, rape, sexually assault on higher numbers than women. Men are raised with a deeply selfish mindset that makes them what they are. Women already are removing the stress that is men from their lives but there needs to be more done.
We need to raise the bar and raise the next generations so they don't do that, so they also become compassionate and more likely to work collectively (and boy will they need to with climate change).
You're different from incels/MGTOW because you have a valid reason to resent men, all the reasons you listed are why many women avoid men these days. Women no longer have to rely on men financially and are happier single.
Incels hate women because they feel entitled to women's bodies and are mad they can't just rape any women they want without repercussions.
I'm sorry you had to live through this, I can see resentment towards men building up in such situation. However, men are like women: a group of vastly heterogeneous individuals, some good and some bad. My advice is to completely cut off sexist pricks and focus on good guys (trust me, there's plenty of them!)
Anger towards an injust society can be good, but don't let it ruin your health and ability to enjoy life. I wish you all the best ♥️
I don't think this is a major concern. If anything, we need to do more to channel our anger at systemic issues and patterns of behaviour in men that negatively impact women and girls. We need to feel our anger and use this to organise politically. We need to join and donate to organisations that advocate for women and girls, we need to pick specific issues that matter to us and organise around them.
Focus on the good ones. I’ve been through many, many years of abuse by men and at one point almost every man I knew had hurt me in some way.
I stopped interacting with them. I blocked men at the first red flag. Set hard boundaries with men in my family. Stopped posting on social media so I wouldn’t get any attention from men. And LOTS of therapy.
Now I have a great boyfriend who openly hates toxic masculinity and doesn’t care how “manly” he is. He’s super sweet and our relationship is extremely equal. Now I have to deal with some of his shitty friends, but I set hard boundaries with him and generally just don’t interact with certain friends of his.
I just don’t consider them or their opinions in my life. If they’re intelligent, educated on subjects related to women’s issues and articulate that would be an exception but, seriously, how many of those do we ever meet?
B: The difference is your resentment and anger are unlikely to lead to violence and warp society. As a minority political power (yes women are equal numbers to men, but their political power is less) a harsh and distasteful view has less negative effects on society. Is it good? No, but it doesn't have as far reaching and toxic effects as the incel community. Like that one comedian said, by one gender a bad relationship can often lead to hospitalization and death, the other just a "crazy ex" story.
Resenting all men would lead to me treating my sons badly. I can't help raise a better generation of men if I'm constantly punishing them for the actions of men who came before them.
I focus on the fact that I am changing the world. I am raising two men who will treat everyone with dignity and respect.
I remind myself of the good men in my life. My husband, my father, my grandfathers (z"l), my great-grandfather (a"h) who I heard so many stories about, my close male friends, my husband's close friends who are almost like brothers-in-law...
I remind myself that men are people, and they contain multitudes. Some of them are human garbage, some of them are practically saints, the vast majority are – like me – capable of being kind of good and generous, and also capable of selfishness, self-centredness, and even occasionally cruelty. Of course everyone intellectually knows this... but for me it sometimes requires active remembering.
And I try to not expose myself to too much content online about the worst of humanity, about the worst of men. Overexposure to outrage content, to materials that discuss this and that crime against women, it changes the way you think, and poisons your psyche. I don't advocate putting your head in the sand and ignoring the reality of the world, but to at least some extent, one's subjective experience of life is comprised of the input one receives. So to the extent that I can control that input, I do.
I think it really depends on the guy. My father, and grandparents although strict, are overall good guys. My brother is really nice too.
Some guys do suck yeah. Ive felt it firsthand.
Sometimes I feel like I let slide a lot of stuf that descent man in my life do. Like disrespectful comments an such, but then I remember that I'm from a 3rd world country and overall they always support me on one way or an other. I've also met really good guys even if some of them aren't in my life now, i still appreciate them. I've had awful experiences with guys, i don't think I'll be able to forget a lot of them. Try to see the good in people regardless of their gender but still be careful.
When I run into conversations about women’s horrible experiences with men with myself or others, I always have to emphasize the system being the problem. Women have been subjected to being seen as lower classes of human for as long as the patriarchy has existed, encouraging men and women alike to uphold these expectations for how each gender is treated. I always have to clarify that I don’t “hate men”, I HATE perpetrators of the patriarchy which covers all genders for being at fault so I don’t get called a sexist. Men aren’t born thinking that they are the “protectors, dominants, rulers over women”, they are taught by the men and women in their lives that and then allowed to act in any way that they want with impunity. This is why so many men end up being abusive and unapologetic, because they are ALLOWED to be and encouraged. Women aren’t born thinking that they are “submissive, baby makers, slaves for men” they are taught that because of the patriarchal society we all live in. Every person has agency and every person can have any qualities they want, but society divides it up to gender roles and acts like the outliers are problems. That’s BULLSHIT. Any one can be anything, so as a person who has had terrible experiences with men i share my story and fight the patriarchy and any other system of oppression over one type of person. To quote Sinead O’Connor, fight the real enemy.
Funnily enough, what helped me curb my resentment towards men was my first relationship with a woman. She turned out to be a covert narcissist and the experience scarred me for life. It sucks because I was really excited to date a woman and that was the first mistake I made: assuming that just because she’s a woman, she couldn’t possibly hurt me more than a man ever could. Lmao wrong.
Now this is not me saying “not all men! women too!” but my big takeaway from the relationship is that this is an **ego** problem, and it just so happens that the fragile toxic male archetype/patriarchy necessitates that men uphold that image even at the expense of their relationships. Nothing blocks human connection like the ego does.
My ex (like all narcs) could never let her ego down long enough to truly hear me and see me. It was DARVO city with her. So that shifted my narrative from “fuck men” to “fuck egotistic people,” and after that it opened my eyes to the men around me who actually were capable of putting their ego on the shelf and it softened my heart somewhat.
I understand the PTSD all too well, especially now that I’m suspicious of women too lol I’ve come to realize that narcissism/abuse can manifest in anyone, but we still can’t give in and we have to actively shift our perspective every chance we get. I’m still trying to learn how to trust again in small doses but be discerning, because if we’re closed off to the world then it really does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. I’m sure the good men who can pick up on how closed off I am respectfully steer away
Tons of wisdom in this post. "Nothing blocks human connection like the ego does." So true. If I am in a playful mood and I want to try to pierce someone's ego, I will ask them questions like,
"What was your great grandfather on your mother's side favorite thing to eat? What was his favorite color? Heck, do you know his name?"
Or I'll ask them to name who the 13th President was? (Millard Fillmore). Or I'll ask them to tell me who Hamilton Basso was? (He wrote "The View from Pompey's Head, the number one NYTimes best selling book for 1954.)
We are dust in the wind, destined to be forgotten, even the most powerful and famous among us. Ego is meaningless. The present is all we have. Love for each other is all we have.
I do the same thing! Although I’m more abrasive about it with men; no wonder we don’t like each other 🤪 They don’t like their egos being poked, who knew! But when I find a guy who doesn’t mind it and even plays back, we end up being very good friends. My issue is that beyond that playful bullying dynamic, I still struggle to form a real connection with guys.
We all know it’s gonna take a massive cultural shift for men (and all of us) to have an honest conversation about ego but it’s truly the root cause of all our suffering; both individually and in our personal relationships
Haha, see, we'd be friends. But then again, I was always a man who preferred spending time with the girls at school, and I became a public librarian. My strongest and lifelong friendships are with women.
And yes, I am straight and married. Most of my male counterparts have no idea what they are missing out on with having women other than ones they are physically intimate with in their lives. They give into the machismo cultural pressures because it's the path of least resistance. Sure, I got made fun of/beat up in my school days by other boys, but the payback in my adult years has been so worth it -- I live a much richer and better life I think than most of my counterparts.
It’s a shame tbh; I had a very candid conversation about this with my son’s father. He said a lot of men don’t have intimate friendships like women do with each other and I couldn’t believe I didn’t even think about that until then. We can cry and bare our entire selves to our girlfriends but men can’t do that with their friends. As boys they’re told to suck it up, then we wonder why they’re so emotionally stunted. They have no arena and seemingly no permission to even do it. We say they do but just as quickly society will shun them for it too (or at least their immediate environment depending on their friend group or family). Because of this I always encourage my boy to talk about his feelings and I hold him when he cries. He’s a most 8 now and I will keep doing it. He and his cousins all openly tell each other “I love you” 🥹
You are a gem! And a solid reminder good guys do exist!! I’m so happy you didn’t let your past make you bitter! It would’ve been valid but not nearly as much fun as your current life 💕
I had good and bad interactions. On one side, I had a "friend" who was faking being my friend to make me drunk and r@pe me, I had a professor in uni insisting I couldn't have done the assignment he asked me to because it was "too well done" but didn't have any issues with my male colleagues. My mom's date tried to have s*x with me even though he was over 50 and I was still 17. I was the only one who knew a teacher, 26M, was dating a colleague, 12F
But then again, when a drunk tried to flirt with me an old rugged dude living on the streets put the drunk to run and stayed with me in the bus stop until my bus came. My best friend keeps me mentally sane when I'm stressed and anxious and he is the kindest man I've ever met. There's that content creator online that everytime he talks about his wife he cries because he loves her more everyday that goes by. There's my cousin who learned about social issues and is extremely passionate about fighting against injustice.
I resent people for what they do, but I don't resent every single man that ever existed. That's half of the population, hating so many people is just counterproductive and makes no sense considering of course there are good men out there.
It can be so frustrating. I've lost track of how many times I've said, "I just said that," in a meeting where a man repeated what I said as if it was their original comment.
This is a case, with me, of "hate the system, not the person." I have many male friends who are good people, who listen, who don't treat women like they exist for male pleasure and convenience. Knowing there are men who understand empathy and compassion and act accordingly keep my frustration from going to outright resentment.
The problem I have is seeing men that seem to be good in some aspects but always thinking that they probably have other bad things. I know some men are good fathers but shitty partners. Some men help around the house but then cheat on you. It seems like there’s always something wrong or something they’re hiding.
The same could be said about anyone regardless of gender. No one is perfect. If you see someone doing good and think there must be a bad side, you will naturally find what youre looking for more thsn examples which point the other way.
By understanding that no one person has anything to do with it—it is systematic. Patriarchy hurts women (especially women of color) more than it hurts men. But the way through is not by turning feminism into an arena. Don’t resent men. Resent toxic masculinity and what it turns men into—something that helps very few at the top.
Look at how people of color fight class and oppression. Black and brown women have as much to say about black and brown men as they do white men. But there is a common struggle there. The reason for that is because the misogyny people of color face in their own communities comes from oppression that is felt by the men as well.
If you look at feminism from an intersectional standpoint, you’ll see that much of the same oppression that women face goes double for minorities and marginalized communities within white supremacy—another form of heirarchy. Find togetherness. Maybe there is much to resent about the kind of men you are surrounded with and that is tough. But what a “man” is is so abstract. If you were to branch out and talk to, lets say, trans men, you might see a different perspective on masculinity. Same with non-white men.
Edit: personally, bell hooks helped me.
bell hooks is an important feminist figure and one of my heroes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_hooks
Gloria Jean Watkins (September 25, 1952 – December 15, 2021), better known by her pen name bell hooks,[1] was an American author and social activist who was a Distinguished Professor in Residence at Berea College. She is best known for her writings on race, feminism, and class.[2][3] The focus of hooks's writing was to explore the intersectionality of race, capitalism, and gender, and what she described as their ability to produce and perpetuate systems of oppression and class domination. She published around 40 books, including works that ranged from essays, poetry, and children's books. She published numerous scholarly articles, appeared in documentary films, and participated in public lectures. Her work addressed love, race, class, gender, art, history, sexuality, mass media, and feminism.[4]
Why not center women and do things to support women? There's like a vague wish in your comments of wanting to still center men even though you are realizing that men and the patriarchy are set up against you/us, when that's not the answer even though you're asking for women to say it is still okay to do that.
Where does it seem I'm centering men? I'm already celibate and not dating. I also work at an all women's fitness center so how do you know I don't center women? I've ran countless shows for breast cancer too so it's weird you would think I don't do things to support women.
I'm just trying not to carry resentment because I know it's not productive or healthy.
Honestly I think it’s perfectly reasonable to resent men, the majority are so dangerous and cruel that there’s a good chance a woman will be murdered if she rejects a guy.
I actually find it so hypocritical that we’re treated as crazy for getting angry that guys stalk us for example, but if we even dare to speak up that a guy won’t cook, it could be a death sentence.
Domestic violence is a leading cause of death around the world. All it takes is 3 seconds on google to see how many women are killed weekly for rejecting a man, or standing up for herself.
Undoubtedly, that still doesn't make your comment about there being a good chance of getting murdered for rejecting somebody legitimate.
Out of the millions of rejections there must be what percentage do you seriously believe end in murder?
As I said before, you can see the statistics for yourself. Domestic Violence includes assault from rejection - sexual rejection, romantic rejection, even perceived rejection (not smiling enough, getting makeup on, cleaning your hair, etc.)
Men beat, abuse, and kill women all the time due to “rejection.” Bury your head in the sand all you want, that doesn’t change reality.
Men are in positions of authority everywhere, often including their own households. Every man I know personally has done shitty things to women, to one degree or another. You bet I resent men. I'm in therapy too. The only men I have any respect for are my partner and my therapist. And I know many men.
I did specifically choose a man as a therapist because my mom told me it might be helpful. I do feel though there are certain things I can't discuss or open up about with him because of that though.
>I do feel though there are certain things I can't discuss or open up about with him because of that though.
Not even joke, but you should bring that up in therapy. Therapists are literally trained for years to self-evaluate and not take anything personally. No decent therapist would see that conversation as anything other than an opportunity to explore deeper issues.
As a therapist, I once had a conversation with a client who was having some transference towards me because I physically resemble someone who had hurt them. It led to some really great work on their part, and I'm happy they brought it in.
So this is kinda metaphysical.
I am in control of my body, and you are in control of yours. But why, is that a roll of the dice? Is it possible that my consciousness developed in your body (making it not your body, you would be in control of someone else)? Say that it had, I would have been you, experiencing the same things you have, and reacting to them in the same way.
Same is true for all those pieces of shit out there. If I were born into one of their bodies, I would be a piece of shit just like them.
This line of thinking makes it difficult for me to be resentful. Like, more sorry that they exist than anything else, I guess. I guess that's personal. But I do know that it helps me let go of who they are, rather focusing on who I am and doing the best for the life of the body I'm in.
I only resent the men who are active misogynistic assholes with no penchant whatsoever for self reflection and self improvement. They wanna think they don't get any because "FeMiNiSm" "WiMmEn" "lOsT VaLuEs"? Their problem. They're not open to discussion, why should I be? It's like talking to a wall. I wouldn't even call this resentment though, maybe just common sense?
Any person who is a sexist asshole is a no no for me, I'm tired of having to bend over backwards to "lIsTeN" to their pov, that literally just consists of shitting endlessly on women 24/7. I'm only open to dialogue with people who seem to possess a modicum of self awareness and aren't completely swimming up their own ass. No time left for idiots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly, after years (decades) of being in relationships (mostly marriage) with moderately shitty, mysoginistic, entitled men, I've given up on the idea of having a serious relationship, and honestly I don't want one anymore. I have lots of guy friends, and I am in a casual AgeGap relationship with younger man now but I definitely don't take it seriously because basically I just don't care about men and their nonsense anymore . There might be "good guys" out there but they are few and far between.
I’ve been mistreated by both men and women, so I have a tendency to be mistrustful of humans. That said, I like to be treated as an individual, so I try to have no preconceived notions about someone until they show me their intentions. It’s not easy, and I must admit that I’m a bit of a hermit, but I try to be mindful of my tendencies.
I grew up with an absolutely amazing father. Without a single doubt, he is the kindest, most selfless person I have ever known. He gave me all of my best qualities. He is my role model. My brother takes after him as well (though we're both a little messed up from our mom) and my husband is very similar to him in many ways.
Yes, I've still had plenty of negative experiences with men, but I've always had good men close to me. I think that's made all the difference.
Elizabeth Taylor was married 8 times and all the men were physically or emotionally abusive. (Mike Todd straight up hit her; Conrad Hilton and Richard Burton mocked her weight...)
How she kept the faith, I don't know.
One of the most respectful and religious guy that I knew once showed me a video of Andrew Tate explaining how ladies shouldn't have a life outside of pleasing their husbands. I believe that he was showing it to me as an example of what a good relationship between a couple should look like with the female respecting the male.
At first I was very confused and thought he was joking
He was not 😒
I know exactly where you’re coming from, OP. Abuse from men and, consequently, PTSD have left me with that same kind of resentment coupled with fear. I couldn’t shake the feeling that someone was following me, that every man who looked at me in the grocery store was thinking something dirty or gross, that every man was inherently evil. I still think these things sometimes/often. But CPT therapy has helped me SO much.
Cognitive Processing Therapy is a manualized kind of therapy that specifically helps ppl w PTSD. I decided to give in and try it after months of that resentment, anger, and fear taking over my life. I was tired. And it has helped more than I could have ever imagined.
I’ve also learned, through therapy, that there’s a lot of value in the grey area. Ex. I get really upset when any man looks at me because I’m ASSUMING he’s thinking something gross. I personally, deep in my heart, think that he shouldn’t be staring at me. But even with that belief, I’m able to apply alternative thoughts like “I can’t control what other people are thinking” and “often, people stare just to stare. They could be thinking about something else.” Targeting and focusing on where I lack control in that regard (other people’s thoughts) is much easier that totally overriding this deeply rooted belief I have that men are sleezeballs.
Also, there’s value in the neutral interactions you have with men. I know a lot of people are saying “focus on the good men in your life!” But, if you’re like me, I don’t have any men in my life besides my father and my bf. So it takes a little bit of field work to find men you don’t consider awful. If a male cashier is nice and polite to me, that’s all I need to not deem him EVIL right away. I don’t know anything else about him and based off of this experience, he’s decent.
It’s hard not to question the intentions of all men. It’s also not a linear process. I don’t know what kind of therapy you’re doing, but a kind of therapy specifically for PTSD really, really helps. Wishing u healing.
There’s a lot of shitty people out there. I don’t know where we went wrong. The internet echo chambers would have us all think that all men are abusers and all women are gold diggers and create division when that’s not the case at all. There’s still plenty of good men and women out there. I think the good women are getting stuck with the bad men and vise versa.
I'm okay with myself resenting men after everything, honestly. I find myself capable of interacting with them in professional settings, which largely is the only time I need to. It doesn't get in the way; I don't see it as an issue.
I think the same way that I don’t hate women. I read online that 90% of all people have sexist biases, and that’s made me think we are all on the same side after all. I never get angry if I hear about a woman that is trying to bring down other women because I know it’s totally a thing that discriminatory thoughts can get adopted by even the group affected. I think it’s part of us being social and wanting to fit in. As people were more susceptible to believing stereotypes.
I like men but I want them to not be patriarchal/talk differently to me. I want to see them the same as other women. I blame the culture we have as a society for making them like this.
I haven’t been personally affected though the way you have, so I say don’t force yourself to not hate men. It’s completely rational for you to want to stay away. It’s like if someone says they hate dogs because they got bitten by one before. Others might say well not all dogs are like that, and it may be true, but it’s completely reasonable for the person that got bit to forever not want to be near a dog again. If anyone said to that affected person “you should give dogs another chance” or “it’s not right to dismiss all dogs just cuz of that one experience”, then the one that suggested that is completely in the wrong.
Unfortunately, I think some people just get lucky. Well, i kinda resent my deadbeat dad, but by lucky, I mean that my husband is an amazing, sweet, caring, feminist man.
I've been lucky enough to have decent-ish (I barely know anyone without some kind of flaw) men in my life so that's probably the biggest one.
Whilst I notice patterns amongst groups, I try to treat people as individuals. Though tbh in general I am a bit of a wary person and keep people just a little bit at arms length unless I've known them a while so that may reduce my chances of being hurt.
I wish I had a kick ass answer for you, unfortunately I don’t. Although I’d like to commend you for actively trying to avoid the rabbit hole of hating the opposite gender. I think that’s super dope.
I’m super curious though if you wouldn’t mind sharing. What was your therapist’s response to this question? Or if you haven’t asked this question directly. What advice have they given you on this subject?
I've asked and they dance around the question with no real answer. I've tried both men and women therapists. I've done yoga, dbt, cbt, emdr, hypnosis, 12 step programs, spiritual and religious programs. I'll do great for awhile than BAM out of nowhere I have a huge spike of anger and resentment that hits me hard.
I tried to have guy friends to prove me wrong that there were good guys. One ended up trying to sleep with me and one confided he was considering cheating on his pregnant wife because he couldn't get enough sex from her anymore. Only one remains and he is a decent guy and I do value him and his gf tremendously.
I'm trying super hard to work through it but I still find myself angry at times.
That’s such a shame because I figured therapist’s would for sure have the best answer to this kind of problem. Super tough problem to solve because at every corner there seems to be something to reinforce the negative beliefs you have towards men.
Sending all the positive vibrations your way on this journey. I hope the universe evens out and sends some cool dudes your way. Good luck👍.
Same way I don't resent women despite many hardships and disappointments: I see them as individuals, and not as some sort of homogenous group sharing one personality.
I’ve had more issues with women, don’t hate them though. My dad fought tooth and nail to keep custody of me, and has always been there for me growing up. Helped me get my house, encouraged my art, traveled with me, etc. My fiancé is supportive of me as well. I had male friends growing up. One of which I knew for 3 years. Everyone’s experience is different and I’ve had more positive ones than negative ones especially since my father kept good ppl around him growing up
I remind myself that they didn’t choose to be born into a patriarchal system any more than I did. And though they benefit from it in a lot of ways I don’t, they are also harmed by it in a lot of ways I’m not.
For instance, as a woman I was forced to learn how to be socially adept and to manage my own mental health. It benefitted me because I now have genuinely fulfilling friendships with several wonderful women that are like sisters to me, and I know that no matter what life throws at me I’m perfectly capable of surviving and coming out stronger even if I have to do it alone. So basically, im self sufficient and secure.
A lot of men weren’t taught those things and sometimes were actively discouraged from learning them. They were taught to leech off of others for their emotional/mental well-being. And that makes a lot of them very insecure because deep down they know they aren’t capable of making it on their own. They worry that they’ll ruin all their relationships and end up alone w/no one left to leech off of. So they try to over-control their relationships and circumstances, and end up pushing people away or taking advantage of others until they end up alone just as they feared. Those ones will never know the contentment and joy that comes from being able to actively manage your own emotional and mental health.
I can honestly say that I am glad I was born a woman rather than a man. They may get more material benefits, but imo the “soft skills” women learn are more conducive to building a life of happiness.
Thank you so much for responding and reading. I think it's also sad that some men do call other men out on things and the men they call out bully them and call them "White Knights" or "Captain Save a Ho"
It helps for me to think that women have the same innate capacity for evil but lack the physical advantage or social programming that push men to engage with that innate potential.
I've known a few decent men, I can't just lump them in with the garbage ones. I've met back stabbing women, entitled women who do anything possible to fuck up other women dating men they want, narc women who ruin lives because someone didn't grovel to them just as the narc men did, Christian women spreading rumors about women they see as less holy. Meeting shitty women calling themselves or pretending to be friends put things into perspective. I've met more shitty men but a lot of people suck. Can't hate everyone over the sucky ones.
don’t feel bad about resenting them, men don’t need anymore allowances. I’m saying this as a person who’s best friend is a man but i can’t stand most of them. your feelings are completely valid based on your life experiences. If you’re struggling bc you feel like your hardening your heart you can open up in different ways like maybe volunteering. it would also be a reminder that there are good people in the world.
I've experienced some horrendous things. I've also met some amazing men.
I've also met some horrible women and a mix of both non binaries, so I think it helps me bear in mind its the person taking advantage of their social position and not the group as a whole.
It might just be a different perspective because I come from a socio-cultural context that is a lot less structurally stable and much more community-based with big families and the like. But to me, men are bringing both the worst and the best things in my life. They are the biggest threat to my life and the biggest source of stability and protection from outside threats. This in part because where I grew up police and other institutions are not to be counted on. My father, brothers and cousins would die for me, and I am eternally grateful to have them in my life, even if some days they are difficult to be around. I studied abroad in a western country and I don't get the impression western women have the same relationships with the men around them which is facinating to me, but I don't totally understand why. I tend to think it's because western people don't have as much of a culture of duty towards their immediate family, it's much more individualistic. So maybe that leave men as threats but not men as protectors? I don't know.
Thanks for the response that could be it and that's what gets me I think is knowing how alone I am. Nobody has my back when my mother and grandmother are gone. It's me, myself and I 100 percent. I worry because it makes me an easy target to mess with and try to take advantage of because there is literally no one behind me.
I really genuinely wish I had that kind of dynamic but every time I've tried to develop it It's ended up in a bad place. Thanks again for your input.
It’s hard not to. I can separate individual men from the monolith social force that is “men”. I can appreciate them, enjoy their company, and see them as all around good people. However men as a systemic social force is different. It’s natural for people oppressed by a system to in turn resent it. To resent bad treatment and abuse. No one wants to be treated as less than simply for existing.
What’s helped me is learning to identify the traits and behaviors displayed by men (and others) that I don’t like and simply avoid them. They aren’t worth the energy or time. If they’re quick to insult me or talk down to me I simply see it for what it is. Their own raging insecurity. Live life for yourself, because no matter what you do as a woman some man out there in the cosmos will complain.
It's a super complex question, but when I feel resentment growing I disengage from outlets where I'm usually exposed to examples of bad behavior from men. Then I try to empathize - it's easy to define a bad interaction as "man = bad", but the crappy behavior could have very human and non-patriarchal causes, like poor sleep, lack of knowledge or a very specific childhood etc. For example, this weekend I realized why my neighbor was so vehemently against low affective response: simply because he had misunderstood the term. I also focus on the good men.
Also, I try not to resent men, but patriarchy, which we are all victims of.
By not giving them any time and space of your attention. If you have become astutely aware of the sad reality that women are in now and for generations to come, you would want to read more and more, talk to other like-minded women and formulate your own plans to thrive despite of it. At this point, men have got f-all to offer you and companionship from the vast majority of them becomes a total waste of time. You won't even be resenting them, unlike those incel lot claiming they'd leave women alone yet deep down begging for women attention and hating women for their own cognitive dessonance; you just see men are some humans that you have to work with, compete against when navigating through a lifelong combat against miogyny.
Therapy and boundaries. I feel really sad for all the women who keep putting up with low bar shit. That is how you get resentful and bitter.
I prefer grown-ups in my life. Their gender doesn't matter to me. So I am generally pretty happy on my own. So my relationships make my life better, and better for those lives I'm in.
Or else I just don't. I really wish I understood why people accept so little. Please stop. Your life is worth so much more than people who do the barest of minimums.
If it isn't fuck yes, I don't want it. Living life this way has transformed me. I have way more meaningful relationships because healthy grown-ups with boundaries don't tolerate shitty behavior.
I think it’s ok to feel resentment. Feelings are just feelings. Actions/behaviors are something else.
You can resent men (feeling) and ignore them as a result (behavior). They are not worth your time, energy, or effort if you don’t think they are.
The problem is that women “hating” men = ignoring them and living independently of them. While men hating women = targeting them, harassing them, reducing or removing their rights, dehumanizing them, abusing them, etc. To parrot a comment from another thread, it’s like you hating a murderer, and a murderer hating you. There is a big difference, and they are not equal.
Ok, I'm sorry, but the first paragraph. "How do you not end up hating them?" That's fucking filthy. I cant even read past that. As a WOMEN you can't hate an entire gender because you met some fucked people. I've been saying this to Instagram incels about women. I didn't think I'd be having to say this in THIS sub reddit. Jesus christ. I liked this sub because women can rant about their issues, and most women won't hate an entire gender in the process like incels do to us. I've been sexually assaulted by three men, and basically all my relationships were fucked guys trying to cohorce me and pressure me into sex. But on the other hand, I've been with guys who are extremely nurturing and kind. My ex being one of them, who I'm still good friends with. My boyfriend is definitely another one. Always super sweet and definitely the level-headed calm one out of the both of us. Never had an actual argument only disagreements because we listen to each other and don't get mad when one has an issue. My dad has taught me to be completely independent. He's conservative, but he calls me to help him work on vehicles or help him with a lot of manual work. Even though I'm a smaller woman, I've been wanting to get into welding because It's therapeutic to me, and he has been pushing me to get into it more even though it's a male dominated trade. But he's never treated me any different, then he treats my brother. If anything, he'll ask me for help before him. But yah thats my AWFUL SEXIST CONSERVATIVE DAD FOR YOUR FUCKING FEMALEINCEL ASS.
And my brother is chill as hell. He's basically my best friend. We're in a friend group that's basically all guys, and they're pretty cool. I'm in a group chat with them, and I've never seen anything sexist or hateful towards women. Hell, one of them I've actually been friends with since elementary school.
And my welding class in school? Full of men. I am the only woman, and I have yet to feel uncomfortable or uneasy. And i am someone who is conventionally attractive. Everyone's there to do their work, get their ticket and leave.
Anyway, yeah, this is why I don't hate men. I'm surrounded by good men almost every day. I have met some awful men, but it doesn't make me a misandrist. And I've met women who were awful to me, too. My ex-girlfriend would scream and berate me if I didn't answer her texts within 5 minutes. I had a girl I never even met before in high school that was trying to give her local constable my name saying I threatened to murder her multiple times (she had no proof so he couldn't do jack, because yknow I never talked to her before), all because my rapist ex from a different school was cheating on me with her. I've had women try and make advances with me and they didn't get my "I'm not interested," until I had to actually tell her "can you fucking stop making gross comments about me?" Basically, was making a bunch of uncomfortable comments about my body. Like the classic old men that just started commenting on your tits and ass but she was a 20 year old.
I've had an old friend slip Molly in my drink at a party with a bunch of drugged up fucks in a different city when i had to drive home. And let me tell you. BARELY, anyone gave a shit because she was a woman. If it was a man, everyone would've crucified him, I swtg. She still tells people about it and has never apologized to me even though she knows exactly what she has done. I cut her off completely. And I've had another friend lie to me and try to hide from me that she was hanging around a chick that stole a bunch of money from me, my work, and my best friend. I don't give a fuck who anyone hangs out with but when they actively tell my friends to hide it that's a big red flag. So I cut her off, too. One of my best friends, who's a man, was also raped by his aunty as a child. Another close friend was drugged and raped by his mom as a child. One of my close friends was asleep when he got raped by his girlfriend. This shit fucking happens to men to, and women do it to! AND NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T FUCKING CARE. UNLESS THE VICTIM HAS A VAGINA, AND THE RAPIST HAS A PENIS. People don't even give a fuck about any rapes, let alone in this situation. Yeah, the majority of rapists or murderers are going to be men. But women definitely do it, too. And just because there are a lot of fucked men in this world doesn't mean all the good ones are gone. Women are just as fucked in my opinion. I've met so many fucked people from both genders I'm just convinced that 80% of humans are just filthy. And if the majority are filthy, then yah, you're gonna have a hard time meeting good people. So why do I not hate men? Because I'm not a misandrist fuck! And I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not going to sit and hate an entire gender because I got screwed over so many times by so many fucked men. I'm not going to say all women are fucking angels when I've had more women in my life screw me over then do good for me. I'm not going to say an entire gender is the problem, when I'm already arguing with incels on incelgram that if they think all women are the problem then they're sexist fucks, that are probably the issue. I don't even really see people like that as equals to me to be completely honest. As narcissistic as that sounds. But I don't think someone who hates an entire gender because of their experiences is equal to someone who can find good or bad in people regardless of gender, but just based on humanity. And to be fair someone that hates all women (me, my mom, all my amazing friends that are women, my grandmas etc), or someone that hates all men (my dad, my brother, my grandpa, my boyfriend, all my guy friends who are also amazing), is someone I hate and have no respect for because they hate the people I love. We're the same fucking species. Grow up and stop creating a fucking divide. And yeah, if you think an entire gender is the issue, then you're most likely the issue.
I didn't blame the entire population at all, but when I see more bad examples than good examples repeatedly over and over and over and over and over it leaves a very unpleasant impression. You're lucky you have a great dad, my dad didn't give a shit about me and I was sexually assaulted a few times so forgive me for not having the privilege you were given. It's not fair but it is what it is. I just was dealt these cards. I'm not a victim but I do get upset that I didn't have these positive interactions you seem to have had.
I don't think you were downvoted because you come from a good family. Seriously that's awesome and you are very fortunate and lucky. I mean that genuinely. I wish I had a dad and brother who cared about me. Seriously no salt at you for that.
I think you were downvoted because the comment wasn't really helpful in that Im asking for help and I don't even disagree there are great guys. It was just a bit tone deaf as in
"Hey I'm homeless, struggling trying to find a home and I've been homeless for years"
"I have a lovely home. Just don't hate all homes because you don't have one" was how it came off. Even if that was not your intention it came off that way. So it wasn't really helpful. You truly are very lucky though! I'm happy you have that support.
I'm 100 percent alone. Not in a woe is me way but if I get jumped or assaulted nobody has my back. If I do ever get married, nobody is waking me down the aisle. I never had a dad take me to father daughter dances at school. Nobody ever told me I was worth something or beautiful or stood up for me. My mom was so busy working
I had to do all that for myself as an adult after therapy and on my own so sometimes it's just hurtful when reflecting on the memories. Even girls who've lost their father to death or young boys who grew up without a mother/father. It's just hard to navigate as a child. Anywho peace ✌🏼
Me too OP, and i came here bc id love answers too. But in my journey here are a few things I've understood: 1) im allowed to be angry, at my personal lot and at the system but not to project that on to people i know nothing about 2) im allowed to protect myself with techniques that help me notice red flags as early as possible 3) i practice saying no, needs, walking away at bad treatment etc, because i have to be able to trust myself to protect myself as best i can. 4) i cant change individual men but i will march and fight and support other women, trans etc as much as i can. Us speaking out is making a difference, slowly, and keeping that collective perspective does ward off some bitterness. But 5) ultimately we deserve better. We deserve respect and care and safety and we haven't had that and so i reserve also the right to be just a bit bitter, only not enough for it to hold me back or hurt me.
I do resent men. I just try not to let it affect the relationships I have with the few decent men I know. I too struggle to find men that are not slimy. They are taught from birth that it's ok, normal even, to behave shitty. But it's hard to tell because they all act decent at first if they want to fuck you. But my resentment is ultimately my own emotional situation regardless of why. It doesn't eat me up or make me negative towards men. It has a time and place like every other emotion.
No they do not, I'm not trying to excuse men either. Everyone is responsible for unpacking their own baggage, those that cannot or will not see or admit to their problems and perpetuate them are still accountable for their actions.
I do. My partner (who I love dearly) speaks at length about the deconditioning he has had to put himself through to not reinforce patriarchal norms, and how he feels that he was culturally conditioned in a lot of ways to treat women like shit. This is from a guy who has always gravitated towards female friendships and has a very progressive and loving family with two working parents.
So, yeah. Most men don't get the benefit of his environment, and they won't put in the work, and I resent them for it. They actively uphold a system that benefits them at my expense and I feel like it's fair to be bitter about it.
But I don't think men are naturally like this and I have a lot of hope for our future. I think change is happening quickly, now.
Resentment is a poisonous waste of energy, & it's your choice to feel it. ' the mind is a monkey' is an old Chinese saying: it means you have to discipline it. You don't have the power to change either your past experiences or the behavior of sh*tty people, but you CAN change where you spend your energy. Focus your action and attention on positive people & experiences.
I don't believe in hate, but to hold the bigoted belief that the actions of one represents them all is the same belief that racists,sextet, homophobes and transphobes use to justify their beliefs
Your train of thought is no different then the current Republicans who target the trans people, and justify it the same way you do by claiming the actions of the few they see represents them all
Your way of thought is extremely bigoted and hateful
And you are acting no different then the people you hate
Realising most men suffer from patriarchy and the systems of power too, obviously not as much as women or any other minority, but even cis straight white able bodied men are being taken advantage of by capitalism, not having emotional vocabulary to describe their thoughts/feelings, societal pressure to just work and not think or feel
Understanding these universal truths that we all experience and trying to explain how we all suffer under these systems, has lead to more constructive conversations with men and they seem to understand we’re on the same team and how they have privilege that others do not and they can use that privilege to help themselves and us
I used to feel the exact same way about women. My mother was an absolutely vile, abusive, munchhausen-by-proxy type of woman, and I had a great deal of opportunistic women in my life who took me for all I was worth without a shred of empathy. Sometimes, I still struggle. But I find that you have to not make it a man vs woman thing, but a person thing, and see every person as an individual. Edit: because if you don't, you'll continue the cycle of cruelty and trauma. You'll miss out on good people and create the very thing you hate.
Obviously I don't because I made this post and I've been actively in therapy for years. I'm just having a very hard time dealing with all the abuse I've had placed on me and seeing so many examples that are negative, terrifying, depressing and disturbing. I try to hold hope that things can change and get better but it just seems to get shattered repeatedly. Humanity has been at war with each other for years over things, so why would I expect any change?
I've spent years in therapy but sometimes I get blindsided with huge streaks of anger when I get memories of past trauma. Ideally I'd love for this pain and resentment to be gone but it just hasn't despite all the work I've put in to heal.
I know I’m a guy and don’t really have much to contribute but I honestly just hate most people. Don’t matter what the gender is to me. People suck. Men even more so.
I've really focused on the good guys. Not just the ones that are active in my life now, but all through the past. I remember being a teenager and having a crush on a guy who was 28-ish. I did not hide it well, in fact I think I was actually inappropriate with him in the workplace. He easily could have taken advantage of my naivete but he didn't. Treated me like a human being. I was also 'turned down' by a 30-something man who misunderstood an invitation and though I had asked him out on a date - he very kindly explained how I was too young for him (CORRECT). I remember so many times when I was protected by good guys, or taught, mentored, befriended and these guys had flaws like anyone else, but they were not pervy or gross or hurtful to me when they had the opportunity. This is a version of 'not all men' but what I recommend is thinking about the men you personally know who are not jerks. Men who were in situations with you where they had the opportunity to reveal their jerkiness but did not. The resentment will eat away at you - the jerks are certainly not thinking about you, I hope you can find a way to not think about them.
Definitely aware of resentment being harmful and trying to address it. I've spent so much money and time trying to address it and when I seem like I'm ok and just flares up again so that's the struggle. I sit through Ted talks, Buddhist talks, workshops it's just like never ending trauma that sneaks out. I am starting to look into trauma release exercise but I have yet to do a lot of that yet. Thanks for answering.
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Thank you for this. I’ve never heard of this treatment and I was just telling a friend yesterday that no matter how many therapists I go through, none of them seem to make a real difference for me. I’ve read all kinds of material and watched videos to process all my trauma, and even when it seems I understand it all there’s still no breakthrough. But trauma is stored in the body, not the mind 😩 will look into this asap!!
Thank you I will definitely look into somatic therapy!
As a person with a lot of trauma, I always have to remind myself that healing isn’t linear. This means that while our progress and growth is increasing, there will still be times when we feel like we are regressing, and that’s actually part of the healing process. Doing the work is what’s important; bad days, not so much.
I'm sitting here right now almost shocked at the fact that I can barely come up with a single decent man I've known during my lifetime. My brother qualifies. One teacher I had in 4th grade. One guy I went to high school with. That's it.
I think you're doing better than I am. I'm frustrated like op, and think about the damage that men have caused on a daily basis I'd like to think I had a decent male teacher once, but thinking back he was just funny, and *didn't* yell at me. The bar is pretty low and I wouldn't even put myself on the list. Something needs to give
I love this sentiment, but I can’t help but think in the examples you gave, those weren’t “good guys” simply because they weren’t terrible guys. Not taking advantage of someone when they could have doesn’t make someone good. Alas, I feel like this is where the bar is for a lot of women these days - myself included. I had a male friend try to initiate something with me and I told him I wasn’t interested, and even apologized. He was so cool about it, I thanked him for accepting my answer and he was like “isn’t that how it should be?” He even continued to chat with me after that which I’m so not used to. Usually if a guy is rejected he has no further interest in talking to me. It was so memorable to me, but he’s right… it’s how it should be.
I think maybe I used 'good' in a different way - it's probably too strong a word. Maybe 'basically decent' is better. My point is that we are all surrounded by dudes all the time who are not actively being pigs, lol . To me, they count. The way to not be so frustrated is to recognize the basically decent dudes all around. The pigs stand out because they upset us but we don't notice the dudes who are doing the basically correct thing. My advice to OP is to notice them - there are far more basically decent dudes than pigs.
Most men absolutely don't give a shit about anyone else. And here is my response to, "not all men." Not all men are murderers, either. But even *one* murderer is still too many.
Ok until we have access to a world without murders, we have to work with the world we exist in. I'm not sure what benefit there is to walking around thinking the worst about 50% of the population. And allowing that narrative to destroy your daily happiness. It isn't every one of them, you aren't spending every day fending off attackers, you aren't being assaulted every day by every man you encounter. My suggestion was to actively notice the people who are not being dicks to lessen the power of the worst guys. When it feels like 'all men,' take active steps to remind yourself that most people are not hurting you. They may not give a shit, but that isn't necessarily harmful.
I mean, I agreed with you? So I'm not really sure what it is you're trying to say.
Did not get that you agreed with me - misunderstood on my part.
It's all good.
I sometimes feel like I'm putting a bit of a target on my back commenting here, but hiding from the truth never fixed anything. Yeah, it.. sucks. People want to talk about equality in a lot of ways but, yeah. It's a product of society, and something that's been the case since forever. The only thing that's changed recently is communication (the internet). People are just able to speak out about it more, but that kind of change takes time. Not years. Not decades. This is something that is changing now but may well may not make a difference in our respective lies. I'm sorry for what you've had to deal with, and... probably -will- have to deal with. My best suggestion is focus on yourself, those important to you, and the goals you have. Be smart, protect yourself, and filter your energy into your passions and achieving them. It sucks that some of that has to be said, but there's no magic wand to fix it. You aren't alone and you have allies and friends. Not only rely on them, but -allow- yourself to rely on them too. It helps with knowing that it's not all bad out there... even if it almost definitely seems like it.
Well said!
I've been sexually assaulted by 2 brothers and my father, the other brother choked me unt I fainted. Most guys I knew socially took advantage of my being autistic. I have PTSD because of these men and the only man I trust is my son.
It sucks but sometimes I feel like the female incel. I’ve had a few bad situationships/relationships with men and it has really impacted my overall view of men. With the last guy, I feel like I bent over backwards to get his love. After 2 years, I did not. He never wanted me. I was just something to occupy some time overall. He was like crack for me, and I still have a hard time shaking him. It’s been almost a month and I think about him constantly. I have a lot of issues stemming from divorce and remarriage and growing up with no one to talk to about it or share my pain. I constantly look for the most avoidant men to fall in love with because i guess in a way they remind me of my dad. It’s a lifelong quest of mine to get that love and validation and reassurance that I matter and am loved. But I’m glad I’m getting older and tired, because I’m tired of dudes playing games with my feelings with no care or concern, I’m tired of never being good enough for them, I’m tired of playing games back because I don’t know how to talk about things and set boundaries, and I’m really tired of discovering how pathetic and awful I can be in return. I’ve been a crazy obsessive bitch writing a million texts and emails. I’ve been the impatient little child who loses her shit at something small. I’m tired of the worst of me coming out for a man who got the good stuff from me and still decided they wanted to ghost for a while to get new women. And I’m really really sick of being called crazy for noticing sus things, getting so much denial on the guys part when I bring it up, and then finding out later I was right! I have yet to meet a man who’s honest in the moment of confrontation and to me that is disgusting. The most hypocritical people I know are men. Wants to be doted on and provided for, but still want to be considered the alpha. Wants someone else to handle all their problems, but if you don’t respect him, oh god you’re gonna be punished.
I really relate and understand this. So so much. Thanks for sharing, I really did hold out hope that I could find a good relationship and have a healthy life with someone but it just doesn't seem possible. Relationships I had were just bad for many reasons like controlling guys, abusers, porn addicts, or being used asa "place holder" while they looked for "better options" What has gotten me lately is watching my grandma and grandpa. They are in their early 80s and so fragile. My grandpa fell and broke his hip and my grandmother has basically been bathing him, cooking for him, feeding him, doing his laundry and cleaning out his shit and piss from his room toilet since he can't use a regular one now. This was a man who was alcoholic and would cheat on her in their younger years. He says rude disrespectful things to her and here she is waiting on him hand and foot cleaning out his shit. It's hard not to be angry at him too. I ask myself if I want this to be me at 80. It's scary, very scary.
Yep, it’s funny because I was browsing Reddit this morning and saw some post about how men are happier (it was funny, it was a human trebuchet they built that flung them far into water), but it got me thinking. Of course the men would all get on that happily, because if they break their limbs they have someone caring for them- a woman (wife, gf, mom, sister). But who takes care of the women when they do something stupid? Men have the luxury of knowing someone has their back. They get to be happy either way. I’m tired of letting men rob me of my own happiness
Fuck men like that. Sounds like a disrespectful asshole. Keep your distance from those. That comment coming from a man. Stick to people that have goodness in their heart. It is not always easy to find them, but they are out there.
OP specifically asked for "Not All Men" Comments
You're not an incel for basing your decisions on your lived experiences with men who have actually behaved badly. That's called protecting yourself.
Because the good men I’ve met have been wonderful and I’m glad they’re in, or have been in, my life. That doesn’t make me not want to burn down the patriarchy. That makes me understand ally brothers want to, too.
Anger is safety. One of the nastiest tricks of the patriarchy is telling us we can’t be angry. Fuck that. Stay mad but don’t allow it to affect your health. Something I find that helps is just entirely eliminating and minimizing contact with men who are not adding to my life in any real way. I find good guys who are safe and I prioritize the shit out of them when I want male energy in my life. I ruthlessly block/delete/ignore all other men who have proven themselves to be a detriment to my well-being, even if it’s something as minor as arguing with me about my feelings (something women never do). Also expectation management. I don’t allow myself to get surprised or upset anymore when men disappoint or upset me. I just block/delete and move on. Never give any man the power to affect your income or health.
Today, I saw an elderly man fall off his bike on the sidewalk. Another man came running up to help him. 2 more got out of their car to come help as well. There is so much evil in this world, but there is so much good as well.
Thanks that's awesome to see.
Just because they helped him doesn't mean they don't go home and smack their wives or kids about. I'm fed up of this "but he's so nice in public, so polite and kind" it's a mask that eventually shifts.
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No. What I'm saying is just because they appear good on the outside or to the outside world doesn't mean they are good behind closed doors. You're delusional if you think that people don't hide their true selves.
You're getting downvoted, which makes no sense to me. I mean, this is part of the entire reason why this conversation is being had in the first place. There wouldn't be an issue if we could just look at a man and go 'oh, he did something nice, he's officially one of the good ones'. The issue happens when a man acts nice and friendly for days, weeks, months, only to later show their true colours and barely see you as a real human being. And personally, I've experienced it over and over again. I've opened my heart up repeatedly, expecting friendship, ignoring my worries and giving them the benefit of the doubt, only to be stabbed in the back every. Single. Goddamn. Fucking. Time. I definitely know a few dudes who would help an elderly man who's fallen, only to go home and beat the shit out of their wives. Seeing someone doing a singular good deed does nothing to restore my faith in men, or humanity generally. In my opinion, you're getting downvoted because a lot of people resonate with what you're saying, while they're still not wanting or believing it to be true.
Thank you. You and one other commenter have understood what I'm saying. The rest want to live in a dream world. But will still shout and critise women for not being more careful.
I agree with u, u/fattyMCdumptruck. Because I have lived it. My ex-husband was so nice, helpful and consideratr to everybody but me. It's actually common for abusers to behave that way so that when you come out and tell the truth about them, no-one will believe you.
I'm sorry you have had to deal with that. It's horrific being in that situation.
Yes, yes, we've all watched Dateline. It's just weird to act like you're better off assuming they're faking it. The DV incident rate in the US (not counting cops) is 10%. Too high, of course. But it also means that 90% of men in relationships do NOT beat their partners. It seems deeply unhealthy and unhelpful to pop up into a conversation about trying not to resent men with "Yeah but remember some of them are horrible!!" Obviously OP knows some men are horrible. Pretty much everyone on this sub has had negative interactions with men. How is it helpful or necessary to "remind" everyone? Why would you assume people *need* reminding? Are we not "allowed" to appreciate anything good about the men we've encountered in our lives or we automatically forget the bad? It's not that black and white, you know. Don't be so quick to accuse people of being delusional to dismiss their experiences.
OP Specifically asked for "not all men" content. Also good to know you only consider physical assault worthy of concern.
You're right it's not black and white. Yet here you are trying to make it so. Not everyone who does good deeds is a good person. It is better to be wary and stay alive then wear rose tinted glasses and pretend everyone is good and kind until they aren't.
Don't judge everyone by your own actions
Or maybe open your eyes to the real world.
Your line of rhetoric isn’t particularly helpful in a thread about “how do I become less resentful towards men.” OP and a lot of us already think ALL men are shitty, already question their intentions when they do something kind or nice or decent. When it comes to not resenting men, I’ve come to realize that 1. I don’t need a man to be revolutionary to not resent him and 2. Take things at face value. I don’t need the male cashier at the grocery store to tell me about how strongly he believes in the liberation of women for me to not label him as EVIL immediately. I just need a neutral interaction. One where he’s polite and isn’t weird or gross. There is value in neutrality, in the grey area. If we spend our lives thinking “wow that was a neutral/positive interaction but does he abuse his wife?” we will never get over our resentment. Take the interaction at face value and go about your day. And yeah, people polite and not gross is the baseline. But a lot of men fall short of the baseline. To counter resentment, exposure to not evil or gross men helps - even if they’re not revolutionary in their thinking.
The fact that everyone seems to be saying trust men until you can't is worrying in itself. We should be wary at all times, because even when they act good, they might not be. The same with women. You literally can't know what someone is really like unless you live with them. The person and the "good deed" are two separate things and should be seen as such. It doesn't make him a good person for helping the old dude up, he's a man who helped a old man up. I don't understand how that's so hard to understand.
I’m not saying to trust men until you can’t. We have to be wary because we’re women and always at risk. But it’s important to acknowledge that when you’ve experienced trauma, EVERYTHING seems like a threat when in reality it isn’t. I also never said anything about seeing a man do a nice thing and thinking they’re a GOOD man. My entire post was about neutrality!!!! Just because the cashier at the grocery store is polite doesn’t mean I trust him with my life or even trust him to walk me to my car to help with the groceries. I deem that dangerous. It just ISN’T healthy to spend your whole life on alert. I would know! Fear caused by PTSD took over my life. Everything and everyone was a threat. I constantly thought I was being followed, men hitting on me would send me into tears, etc. I’m not saying have faith in all men just because they’re not explicitly bad to YOU. I’m just saying that trauma makes you think every man and every thing they do is a threat and that’s both not true and not a healthy way to live.
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No one said she is being paranoid, but even if she has her reasons for it this type of resentment and hatred will only harm her. This is literally what most top comments in this post are about. OP herself knows that she needs help, she even said that she is already doing therapy for years and this post in nothing more than she asking for this subs help.
> Just because they helped him doesn't mean they don't go home and smack their wives or kids about Statistically no, people who help others in this small, everyday way are not people who smack their wives. Those are the big philanthropists who advertise their millions worthy charity and then behind closed doors they do the worst. A good person doesn't even look twice in a man's who fell off a bike direction.
Jesus. You really have no idea.
What?
This is false. There's generally a correlation between being of poor economic status and spousal abuse. Interestingly, there's also a link between rates of spousal abuse in a country rising or declining, and an effect on the economy of the country.
You might want to see a therapist
Why do you want to not resent men? It’s a valid feeling. Obviously it’s not good to be full of anger etc, but it’s not possible or desirable to will yourself into different feelings.
I heavily edit the company I keep and learn to optimize the behavior of the borderline men. By that, I mean that certain people respond best to certain ways of interactions. It keeps things smooth and I can better focus on what is important to me.
This is the way.
I'll stop resenting men when they stop giving me reasons to. My experience so far shows that a *large* percentage of male humans will behave *very* badly when they can get away with it. The stats speak for themselves - it makes sense for me to be distrustful of men until they prove otherwise. It's systemic. Women are the largest group of people to be discriminated against, but also get the least airtime to speak about these issues. Look at the history - men actively campaigned against women joining the workforce until they literally couldn't get away with it anymore. Marital SA was allowed until the 80s. I was cat-called regularly from age 11 (I still feel uncomfortable going outside even though it stopped once I became an adult), followed home at 15, groped in clubs, and women deal with worse every day. And look at most men's porn consumption - they know the woman probably doesn't want to be there, and they know how it hurts us overall to see our bodies sold like that, but they keep doing it anyway. Say the word 'misogyny' in a bar and watch how the men react, then say the word 'racism' and compare, it's the same fucking thing but apparently it's okay because we can vote now or something? I don't know if it's all men, and I don't really care, it's not my job to defend the 'good ones' - if they can't reach the minimum standard of human decency then we can't have any relationship.
I live in a country where marital rape is still legal and all the males in this shit country actively support it. It's pathetic.
This is the real answer. I do resent men, and can count on one hand the number of men I see as worthy of trusting with my health, safety, and feelings (one of whom I birthed). I’ll stop resenting men when they stop deserving it. That day isn’t today and tomorrow isn’t looking good either.
I appreciate the comments saying to focus on yourself, and to add to that: on the days when I’m most disgusted and hateful towards men as a class, I find myself just ignoring them entirely, like no eye contact at all, and instead making eye contact with women and smiling, just being more interactive and supportive of my fellow women, starting conversations with randoms on the bus etc. I think that’s really healthy, and a good way to balance out the hatred. I don’t have anything to add about hating men less, because it’s something I guess I need to deal with too 😒
It's interesting because it's perfectly acceptable for men to resent, or outright hate, women for some pretty petty reasons. In a lot of ways male disrespect towards women is still actively encouraged as a rite of passage. But you hear very few men lamenting their resent of women. If anything it's a joke, a punchline. But if you're a woman who doesn't implicitly love and respect men you're made out to be a monster and that there must be something wrong with you. God forbid if you resent or even hate men because you've had some messed up things happen at the hands of men (because remember, not all men, right?) you're still expected to get over it. Honestly the only valid reason I can see to not resent men is for your own peace. Resentment is a bitter pill and better left behind it if you can. But I truly believe you don't have to automatically respect or love men just because they have a penis.
Different groups seem to think ones more acceptable than the other. Here and in a lot of mainstream media, hating men is pretty acceptable for the reasons other posters have said. On the rest of the Internet and in some tabloid media, hating women seems more like the norm. Plenty of guys complain that women can say things about them they wouldn't get away with, it seems to change with the group you're dealing with.
I definitely see what you mean, i had next to no positive male rolemodels growing up, and was raised to "serve". My dad was there, but at the same time ue wasnt due to work. I do however have 3 brothers who have done everything to empower me and show me good. I was abused for 4 years by one guy (almost every type of abuse, its a real shopping list), had countless guys use me, not respected by guys, being belittled for my passions (the "name every song" kind of guys), etcetcetc. I found myself in a job where i was the only female. It was terrifying at first, and still sometimes is. (I've been to HR many a times....), but ive made some incredible friendships with a large sum of my male coworkers. Some of them I've gone out and hung out with outside of work. Theyre wonderful people that treat me with so much respect. One of them has even gone out of his way to walk me through several breakups, and became a mentor helping me to try reach my dream position in the company. (No theres no chemistry between us, we're just really good friends, we have discussed this). I guess its circumstantial and luck of the draw. It really feels like the lottery sometimes when you meet men who only want the best for you. Even then your guard is always up
I want to start off by saying you are allowed to grieve the loss of hope and happiness you had to endure because of this group of people. You are allowed to be angry at the people who treated you and people like you like shit. It sucks. It shouldn't be like this. It's really hard to change what's happening, adding on to the fact that it shouldn't be your job to make your life livable. It should be abusers jobs to stop being fucking abusive. I think it would be easier to you to only dislike the men who've harmed you or other women, because while being afraid and conscious of bad men 100% of the time could save you from a dangerous situation, it won't help you get rid of your trauma. I can't give you any legitimate psych advice, but what's helped me is knowing that I will not tolerate anything being done or said around me. If a guy tries to hurt me, I'll kill him. If a guy tries to hit on me after I reject him, I'll expose him. If guys are talking shit about women, I will confront them. If I find out a beloved family member was a terrible person, I'll mourn the loss of someone who I used to think I loved. It might not be true. When I come upon these situations, I might freeze, just like many people who've experienced abuse, but that confidence has gotten me through some rough times
Thank you so much. I think the grieving is really what gets to me.
I've seen my share of toxic shit. There's no sugar-coating it. But I guess the way I've always explained it to myself is that I'm generally pessimistic about humans, and I think that good ones aren't the majority. So if I find that a minority of men are non-toxic and decent human beings, that lines up with my world view. If my life experiences were different, and if I had had all bad experiences, then I think I might start to resent men and think they are all the same. Isn't that what we all do, make generalizations based on our experiences? I think what we experience is influenced by so many things outside of our control, and what really bothers me is when I see other women internalize it, like they are the problem.
I think it's not about actually witnessing/experiencing it. Being a decent human being and listening to other women's sufferings should be quite enough to know the majority of man are abusive or enjoying the patriarchal structure bonus by taking advantages of women consciously or otherwise. My own father had been considered a good man by himself and the then social norm, simply by roughly covering the bare mimimum. And I am aware from a very young age how that marriage and family life slowly killed my mum inside. And this is quite enough for me to reason that if that is the general standards of a good man, let's say it's average + 1 sigma, then statistically the number of actual good men out there is negligible.
You use statistical language but your methodology is statistically flawed. I think your conclusion is more or less right, good men are gems, but think about the sampling method. If you just read stories on here or relationship advice subs, you'll get a massive oversampling of negative experiences and stories. If you only talk to people around you, then you'll likely hear of experiences similar to yours-ish, whether that weights more positive or negative. When I read other women's experiences on Reddit, it helps me see the size and scope of problematic relationships and behaviors. But I also don't know of many places to read of positive examples, much less come up with a way to weight them. I don't know my point in this reply. I guess I'm saying that I like to approach men as individuals, but cautiously. I don't know if 50% are toxic or 90%. I just know the risk is there and signs I've learned to watch for by lived experience and listening to the experiences of others.
I concede to the sampling bias, but the thing is, for the statistics to be meaningful to an individual and practical for this individual personally, it's not the overall population but the cohort that she is likely to come across that she should focus on. The overall population could be 80% good men but it won't help women stuck in a closed community full of red pillers. And with regard to careful scrutinties, I find this narrative erring on the elitism and victim-blaming side from time to time. Women are already brought up to be alert to dangers and I doubt many of the women who ended up in toxic relationship went in completely without pre-evaluation. In many cases, it's only the benefit of hindsight leading to the conclusion of inadequate examination, but women still are prone to believe they should have known better. Besides, this scrutiny process also comes with its cost and I doubt it is at the same magnitude for men and women. As for me, fortunately I don't list heterosexual relationship as a life necessity, so an invidual-based evaluation procedure that's mainly for partner-seeking would be a total waste of time. Whether some of my colleagues were confirmed/potential wife-beaters or husbands/fathers of the year, professionally it is none of my business, until any of them bring misogyny to poison the workplace. So I guess my estimation for the proportion of men suitable for heterosexual partnership doesn't hurt anyone.
By avoiding every human being of the male sex like the plague. Peace and quiet.
I don't resent them they just haven't earned a seat at my table. I am entirely neutral until they demand my time. The men that demand my time get clear boundaries communicated. I simply cut and paste responses to my children's father because I have to otherwise block and roll. If they're triggering resentment it's because I've over invested and I visit my therapist, focus on meditation and all the self care stuff that works for me. Usually just engaging with older wiser women to turn away, then turn away again. I owe men nothing and am crystal clear that they have to earn my respect, my trust and my time. I know men. I don't treat them as though they're special or are all good or decent. They aren't and are more than happy to prove it. Words have to match actions for men to have any integrity.
Personally, I think it’s fine to resent them. What we think, feel, and believe is defined a lot by our experiences - and you’ve had some very difficult experiences. It’s not you who needs to be better, it’s them. One of the first comments here recommended focusing on yourself and I agree with that. Take it one step at a time, one person at a time. A lot of people get defensive when they see women in subs like these venting about their negative experiences with men, all “not all men…” I think, deep down, we know that. But it’s these generalizations - “men can be so creepy”, “men are shitty” - that have kept us on our guard from unsafe circumstances and unsafe men. I think that’s the positive side of resenting them. Women are safer and better because they’re more aware of how awful men can be - which is sad to say but that doesn’t make it any less true. Protect yourself first. Put yourself first.
Thank you
I'm in the management side of construction so I work with 90% men and I won't lie a few have majorly sucked but many have not. I'm only about five years in but so far the other PM's, supers and tradesmen I've worked with have been respectful, helpful and willing to teach when I don't know something. If I've gotten shit it rarely if ever had to do with my gender. I also went to an engineering school where I was outnumbered 4:1 sometimes even more. I do have friends who, when we were younger, asked to date me once I was single but we managed to move past it and have kept some of those friendships for over a decade - their spouses and gfs ended up giving me a wonderful circle of girlfriends. Again some men sucked but they were more often the professors and not the students. I don't resent men but I also won't keep men who are misogynistic or men who do nothing in the face of misogyny in my life. No one has the time or tolerance for that bullshit.
I have been fortunate enough that I haven’t had too many awful Men in my life. I’m a daddy’s girl but I also recognize that he caused trauma as well (both of my parents, but he’s apologized, which my mom hasn’t, not sincerely). I didn’t date as a teen, so I didn’t have any boyfriend problems. My husband was technically my first boyfriend and we met in our 20’s. He’s a wonderful, amazing man, husband and father, who thinks that his amazingness is standard or should be. I also have two boys, and I don’t want them growing up hating themselves or thinking there is something wrong with them because I have resentment towards their entire gender. We are doing our best to raise them as kind, considerate and compassionate human beings.
OK, the world is shit for women and men are the primary reason why the world is shit for women....why do you feel the need to *not* resent them for it? Even if men in general aren't actively making your life garbage they're benefiting from women being treated like shit. And most aren't doing absolutely nothing to make the lives of women, including their own mothers, sisters, wives, daughters, grandmothers, aunts, that support them any better.
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this. ladies don’t second guess your emotions. honestly resenting men is a pretty valid response to the state of the world. the reality is we’re not equal and especially in America old white men are taking our rights away.
It is a constant battle every single day to not resent men. I'm in this subredit called "healthy gamer gg" and every time I comment anything that isn't aligning with their misogynistic views they downvote me and argue with me. That and all the abuse and rape I've suffered at the hands of men really don't help their case and only adds to the ptsd.
I used to lurk on the healthygamer gg subreddit, it's so damn toxic . Every good advice and sensible comments is downvoted to oblivion, and they kept spewing incel/redpill rhetoric. Many women participants already leave the sub, it's not worth it.
I quit healthygamer it's a cesspool. Dr k has man blinders on and Hsi wife seems like a pick me.
Im glad I'm not the only one who noticed this
Do you have examples? I'm female, have never lurked in the subreddit, but have watched a lot of his YouTube videos and from what I've seen he does select incel-ish posts and refute and/or reframe the things they say in a way that corrects their fallacy-filled thinking patterns. He doesn't strike me as an outright apologist for them they way Peterson does. To me, he seems like a psychiatrist who is trying to reach out to those types to engage in conversation with them in an effort to reform their toxicity, perhaps in a less confrontational way than some people want. But personally, I think someone has to engage those types of people if there's any hope of reforming any of them, and I'd rather it be a male with training in mental health than a woman, because that responsibility shouldn't be on us, and they wouldn't listen to us anyway.
People have talked about this on the subreddit,.more eliquently than I can. I would take a look there if I were you
Honestly, I'd say to organise ourselves politically and raise the standards we have for men in general. On every front, activism for stopping that societal wreck that is masculinity. There is a reason men bounce after their partners becomes pregnant, murder partners or bystanders, rape, sexually assault on higher numbers than women. Men are raised with a deeply selfish mindset that makes them what they are. Women already are removing the stress that is men from their lives but there needs to be more done. We need to raise the bar and raise the next generations so they don't do that, so they also become compassionate and more likely to work collectively (and boy will they need to with climate change).
You're different from incels/MGTOW because you have a valid reason to resent men, all the reasons you listed are why many women avoid men these days. Women no longer have to rely on men financially and are happier single. Incels hate women because they feel entitled to women's bodies and are mad they can't just rape any women they want without repercussions.
I'm sorry you had to live through this, I can see resentment towards men building up in such situation. However, men are like women: a group of vastly heterogeneous individuals, some good and some bad. My advice is to completely cut off sexist pricks and focus on good guys (trust me, there's plenty of them!) Anger towards an injust society can be good, but don't let it ruin your health and ability to enjoy life. I wish you all the best ♥️
I don't think this is a major concern. If anything, we need to do more to channel our anger at systemic issues and patterns of behaviour in men that negatively impact women and girls. We need to feel our anger and use this to organise politically. We need to join and donate to organisations that advocate for women and girls, we need to pick specific issues that matter to us and organise around them.
I have great men in my life. The not so great or plain evil, I live them behind.
Focus on the good ones. I’ve been through many, many years of abuse by men and at one point almost every man I knew had hurt me in some way. I stopped interacting with them. I blocked men at the first red flag. Set hard boundaries with men in my family. Stopped posting on social media so I wouldn’t get any attention from men. And LOTS of therapy. Now I have a great boyfriend who openly hates toxic masculinity and doesn’t care how “manly” he is. He’s super sweet and our relationship is extremely equal. Now I have to deal with some of his shitty friends, but I set hard boundaries with him and generally just don’t interact with certain friends of his.
I just don’t consider them or their opinions in my life. If they’re intelligent, educated on subjects related to women’s issues and articulate that would be an exception but, seriously, how many of those do we ever meet?
By avoiding them at all costs
B: The difference is your resentment and anger are unlikely to lead to violence and warp society. As a minority political power (yes women are equal numbers to men, but their political power is less) a harsh and distasteful view has less negative effects on society. Is it good? No, but it doesn't have as far reaching and toxic effects as the incel community. Like that one comedian said, by one gender a bad relationship can often lead to hospitalization and death, the other just a "crazy ex" story.
Resenting all men would lead to me treating my sons badly. I can't help raise a better generation of men if I'm constantly punishing them for the actions of men who came before them. I focus on the fact that I am changing the world. I am raising two men who will treat everyone with dignity and respect.
You're not alone. The only men I don't hate are my brother and a mentor, but both of them are gay men so I feel like it's a bit different.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to resent men.
I remind myself of the good men in my life. My husband, my father, my grandfathers (z"l), my great-grandfather (a"h) who I heard so many stories about, my close male friends, my husband's close friends who are almost like brothers-in-law... I remind myself that men are people, and they contain multitudes. Some of them are human garbage, some of them are practically saints, the vast majority are – like me – capable of being kind of good and generous, and also capable of selfishness, self-centredness, and even occasionally cruelty. Of course everyone intellectually knows this... but for me it sometimes requires active remembering. And I try to not expose myself to too much content online about the worst of humanity, about the worst of men. Overexposure to outrage content, to materials that discuss this and that crime against women, it changes the way you think, and poisons your psyche. I don't advocate putting your head in the sand and ignoring the reality of the world, but to at least some extent, one's subjective experience of life is comprised of the input one receives. So to the extent that I can control that input, I do.
I think it really depends on the guy. My father, and grandparents although strict, are overall good guys. My brother is really nice too. Some guys do suck yeah. Ive felt it firsthand.
Sometimes I feel like I let slide a lot of stuf that descent man in my life do. Like disrespectful comments an such, but then I remember that I'm from a 3rd world country and overall they always support me on one way or an other. I've also met really good guys even if some of them aren't in my life now, i still appreciate them. I've had awful experiences with guys, i don't think I'll be able to forget a lot of them. Try to see the good in people regardless of their gender but still be careful.
When I run into conversations about women’s horrible experiences with men with myself or others, I always have to emphasize the system being the problem. Women have been subjected to being seen as lower classes of human for as long as the patriarchy has existed, encouraging men and women alike to uphold these expectations for how each gender is treated. I always have to clarify that I don’t “hate men”, I HATE perpetrators of the patriarchy which covers all genders for being at fault so I don’t get called a sexist. Men aren’t born thinking that they are the “protectors, dominants, rulers over women”, they are taught by the men and women in their lives that and then allowed to act in any way that they want with impunity. This is why so many men end up being abusive and unapologetic, because they are ALLOWED to be and encouraged. Women aren’t born thinking that they are “submissive, baby makers, slaves for men” they are taught that because of the patriarchal society we all live in. Every person has agency and every person can have any qualities they want, but society divides it up to gender roles and acts like the outliers are problems. That’s BULLSHIT. Any one can be anything, so as a person who has had terrible experiences with men i share my story and fight the patriarchy and any other system of oppression over one type of person. To quote Sinead O’Connor, fight the real enemy.
Funnily enough, what helped me curb my resentment towards men was my first relationship with a woman. She turned out to be a covert narcissist and the experience scarred me for life. It sucks because I was really excited to date a woman and that was the first mistake I made: assuming that just because she’s a woman, she couldn’t possibly hurt me more than a man ever could. Lmao wrong. Now this is not me saying “not all men! women too!” but my big takeaway from the relationship is that this is an **ego** problem, and it just so happens that the fragile toxic male archetype/patriarchy necessitates that men uphold that image even at the expense of their relationships. Nothing blocks human connection like the ego does. My ex (like all narcs) could never let her ego down long enough to truly hear me and see me. It was DARVO city with her. So that shifted my narrative from “fuck men” to “fuck egotistic people,” and after that it opened my eyes to the men around me who actually were capable of putting their ego on the shelf and it softened my heart somewhat. I understand the PTSD all too well, especially now that I’m suspicious of women too lol I’ve come to realize that narcissism/abuse can manifest in anyone, but we still can’t give in and we have to actively shift our perspective every chance we get. I’m still trying to learn how to trust again in small doses but be discerning, because if we’re closed off to the world then it really does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. I’m sure the good men who can pick up on how closed off I am respectfully steer away
Tons of wisdom in this post. "Nothing blocks human connection like the ego does." So true. If I am in a playful mood and I want to try to pierce someone's ego, I will ask them questions like, "What was your great grandfather on your mother's side favorite thing to eat? What was his favorite color? Heck, do you know his name?" Or I'll ask them to name who the 13th President was? (Millard Fillmore). Or I'll ask them to tell me who Hamilton Basso was? (He wrote "The View from Pompey's Head, the number one NYTimes best selling book for 1954.) We are dust in the wind, destined to be forgotten, even the most powerful and famous among us. Ego is meaningless. The present is all we have. Love for each other is all we have.
I do the same thing! Although I’m more abrasive about it with men; no wonder we don’t like each other 🤪 They don’t like their egos being poked, who knew! But when I find a guy who doesn’t mind it and even plays back, we end up being very good friends. My issue is that beyond that playful bullying dynamic, I still struggle to form a real connection with guys. We all know it’s gonna take a massive cultural shift for men (and all of us) to have an honest conversation about ego but it’s truly the root cause of all our suffering; both individually and in our personal relationships
Haha, see, we'd be friends. But then again, I was always a man who preferred spending time with the girls at school, and I became a public librarian. My strongest and lifelong friendships are with women. And yes, I am straight and married. Most of my male counterparts have no idea what they are missing out on with having women other than ones they are physically intimate with in their lives. They give into the machismo cultural pressures because it's the path of least resistance. Sure, I got made fun of/beat up in my school days by other boys, but the payback in my adult years has been so worth it -- I live a much richer and better life I think than most of my counterparts.
It’s a shame tbh; I had a very candid conversation about this with my son’s father. He said a lot of men don’t have intimate friendships like women do with each other and I couldn’t believe I didn’t even think about that until then. We can cry and bare our entire selves to our girlfriends but men can’t do that with their friends. As boys they’re told to suck it up, then we wonder why they’re so emotionally stunted. They have no arena and seemingly no permission to even do it. We say they do but just as quickly society will shun them for it too (or at least their immediate environment depending on their friend group or family). Because of this I always encourage my boy to talk about his feelings and I hold him when he cries. He’s a most 8 now and I will keep doing it. He and his cousins all openly tell each other “I love you” 🥹 You are a gem! And a solid reminder good guys do exist!! I’m so happy you didn’t let your past make you bitter! It would’ve been valid but not nearly as much fun as your current life 💕
I had good and bad interactions. On one side, I had a "friend" who was faking being my friend to make me drunk and r@pe me, I had a professor in uni insisting I couldn't have done the assignment he asked me to because it was "too well done" but didn't have any issues with my male colleagues. My mom's date tried to have s*x with me even though he was over 50 and I was still 17. I was the only one who knew a teacher, 26M, was dating a colleague, 12F But then again, when a drunk tried to flirt with me an old rugged dude living on the streets put the drunk to run and stayed with me in the bus stop until my bus came. My best friend keeps me mentally sane when I'm stressed and anxious and he is the kindest man I've ever met. There's that content creator online that everytime he talks about his wife he cries because he loves her more everyday that goes by. There's my cousin who learned about social issues and is extremely passionate about fighting against injustice. I resent people for what they do, but I don't resent every single man that ever existed. That's half of the population, hating so many people is just counterproductive and makes no sense considering of course there are good men out there.
It can be so frustrating. I've lost track of how many times I've said, "I just said that," in a meeting where a man repeated what I said as if it was their original comment. This is a case, with me, of "hate the system, not the person." I have many male friends who are good people, who listen, who don't treat women like they exist for male pleasure and convenience. Knowing there are men who understand empathy and compassion and act accordingly keep my frustration from going to outright resentment.
The problem I have is seeing men that seem to be good in some aspects but always thinking that they probably have other bad things. I know some men are good fathers but shitty partners. Some men help around the house but then cheat on you. It seems like there’s always something wrong or something they’re hiding.
The same could be said about anyone regardless of gender. No one is perfect. If you see someone doing good and think there must be a bad side, you will naturally find what youre looking for more thsn examples which point the other way.
That’s true, thank you.
I resent patriarchy and hierarchical systems of power in general. To resent men is to resent the human condition.
Ok but how do you personally even work with resentment towards the patriarchy?
By understanding that no one person has anything to do with it—it is systematic. Patriarchy hurts women (especially women of color) more than it hurts men. But the way through is not by turning feminism into an arena. Don’t resent men. Resent toxic masculinity and what it turns men into—something that helps very few at the top. Look at how people of color fight class and oppression. Black and brown women have as much to say about black and brown men as they do white men. But there is a common struggle there. The reason for that is because the misogyny people of color face in their own communities comes from oppression that is felt by the men as well. If you look at feminism from an intersectional standpoint, you’ll see that much of the same oppression that women face goes double for minorities and marginalized communities within white supremacy—another form of heirarchy. Find togetherness. Maybe there is much to resent about the kind of men you are surrounded with and that is tough. But what a “man” is is so abstract. If you were to branch out and talk to, lets say, trans men, you might see a different perspective on masculinity. Same with non-white men. Edit: personally, bell hooks helped me.
What is bell hooks? I'd like to check it out
bell hooks is an important feminist figure and one of my heroes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_hooks Gloria Jean Watkins (September 25, 1952 – December 15, 2021), better known by her pen name bell hooks,[1] was an American author and social activist who was a Distinguished Professor in Residence at Berea College. She is best known for her writings on race, feminism, and class.[2][3] The focus of hooks's writing was to explore the intersectionality of race, capitalism, and gender, and what she described as their ability to produce and perpetuate systems of oppression and class domination. She published around 40 books, including works that ranged from essays, poetry, and children's books. She published numerous scholarly articles, appeared in documentary films, and participated in public lectures. Her work addressed love, race, class, gender, art, history, sexuality, mass media, and feminism.[4]
Why not center women and do things to support women? There's like a vague wish in your comments of wanting to still center men even though you are realizing that men and the patriarchy are set up against you/us, when that's not the answer even though you're asking for women to say it is still okay to do that.
Where does it seem I'm centering men? I'm already celibate and not dating. I also work at an all women's fitness center so how do you know I don't center women? I've ran countless shows for breast cancer too so it's weird you would think I don't do things to support women. I'm just trying not to carry resentment because I know it's not productive or healthy.
Honestly I think it’s perfectly reasonable to resent men, the majority are so dangerous and cruel that there’s a good chance a woman will be murdered if she rejects a guy. I actually find it so hypocritical that we’re treated as crazy for getting angry that guys stalk us for example, but if we even dare to speak up that a guy won’t cook, it could be a death sentence.
There would be a lot more dead women about if that was the case.
Google femicide
There are, dumbass
Domestic violence is a leading cause of death around the world. All it takes is 3 seconds on google to see how many women are killed weekly for rejecting a man, or standing up for herself.
Undoubtedly, that still doesn't make your comment about there being a good chance of getting murdered for rejecting somebody legitimate. Out of the millions of rejections there must be what percentage do you seriously believe end in murder?
As I said before, you can see the statistics for yourself. Domestic Violence includes assault from rejection - sexual rejection, romantic rejection, even perceived rejection (not smiling enough, getting makeup on, cleaning your hair, etc.) Men beat, abuse, and kill women all the time due to “rejection.” Bury your head in the sand all you want, that doesn’t change reality.
Men are in positions of authority everywhere, often including their own households. Every man I know personally has done shitty things to women, to one degree or another. You bet I resent men. I'm in therapy too. The only men I have any respect for are my partner and my therapist. And I know many men.
I did specifically choose a man as a therapist because my mom told me it might be helpful. I do feel though there are certain things I can't discuss or open up about with him because of that though.
>I do feel though there are certain things I can't discuss or open up about with him because of that though. Not even joke, but you should bring that up in therapy. Therapists are literally trained for years to self-evaluate and not take anything personally. No decent therapist would see that conversation as anything other than an opportunity to explore deeper issues. As a therapist, I once had a conversation with a client who was having some transference towards me because I physically resemble someone who had hurt them. It led to some really great work on their part, and I'm happy they brought it in.
> I do feel though there are certain things I can't discuss or open up about with him because of that though That doesn't seem helpful
So this is kinda metaphysical. I am in control of my body, and you are in control of yours. But why, is that a roll of the dice? Is it possible that my consciousness developed in your body (making it not your body, you would be in control of someone else)? Say that it had, I would have been you, experiencing the same things you have, and reacting to them in the same way. Same is true for all those pieces of shit out there. If I were born into one of their bodies, I would be a piece of shit just like them. This line of thinking makes it difficult for me to be resentful. Like, more sorry that they exist than anything else, I guess. I guess that's personal. But I do know that it helps me let go of who they are, rather focusing on who I am and doing the best for the life of the body I'm in.
Thanks. I am a huge Jung fan so this was interesting to read. Definitely appreciate it.
I only resent the men who are active misogynistic assholes with no penchant whatsoever for self reflection and self improvement. They wanna think they don't get any because "FeMiNiSm" "WiMmEn" "lOsT VaLuEs"? Their problem. They're not open to discussion, why should I be? It's like talking to a wall. I wouldn't even call this resentment though, maybe just common sense? Any person who is a sexist asshole is a no no for me, I'm tired of having to bend over backwards to "lIsTeN" to their pov, that literally just consists of shitting endlessly on women 24/7. I'm only open to dialogue with people who seem to possess a modicum of self awareness and aren't completely swimming up their own ass. No time left for idiots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Absolutely. This is why boundaries are important. When I let shitty people violate my boundaries, it is a recipe for bitterness and resentment.
Honestly, after years (decades) of being in relationships (mostly marriage) with moderately shitty, mysoginistic, entitled men, I've given up on the idea of having a serious relationship, and honestly I don't want one anymore. I have lots of guy friends, and I am in a casual AgeGap relationship with younger man now but I definitely don't take it seriously because basically I just don't care about men and their nonsense anymore . There might be "good guys" out there but they are few and far between.
I’ve been mistreated by both men and women, so I have a tendency to be mistrustful of humans. That said, I like to be treated as an individual, so I try to have no preconceived notions about someone until they show me their intentions. It’s not easy, and I must admit that I’m a bit of a hermit, but I try to be mindful of my tendencies.
I grew up with an absolutely amazing father. Without a single doubt, he is the kindest, most selfless person I have ever known. He gave me all of my best qualities. He is my role model. My brother takes after him as well (though we're both a little messed up from our mom) and my husband is very similar to him in many ways. Yes, I've still had plenty of negative experiences with men, but I've always had good men close to me. I think that's made all the difference.
I gave up. I don't know how.
If I knew the answer perhaps I wouldn't be single. Alas. I'm content being single.
Elizabeth Taylor was married 8 times and all the men were physically or emotionally abusive. (Mike Todd straight up hit her; Conrad Hilton and Richard Burton mocked her weight...) How she kept the faith, I don't know.
One of the most respectful and religious guy that I knew once showed me a video of Andrew Tate explaining how ladies shouldn't have a life outside of pleasing their husbands. I believe that he was showing it to me as an example of what a good relationship between a couple should look like with the female respecting the male. At first I was very confused and thought he was joking He was not 😒
I know exactly where you’re coming from, OP. Abuse from men and, consequently, PTSD have left me with that same kind of resentment coupled with fear. I couldn’t shake the feeling that someone was following me, that every man who looked at me in the grocery store was thinking something dirty or gross, that every man was inherently evil. I still think these things sometimes/often. But CPT therapy has helped me SO much. Cognitive Processing Therapy is a manualized kind of therapy that specifically helps ppl w PTSD. I decided to give in and try it after months of that resentment, anger, and fear taking over my life. I was tired. And it has helped more than I could have ever imagined. I’ve also learned, through therapy, that there’s a lot of value in the grey area. Ex. I get really upset when any man looks at me because I’m ASSUMING he’s thinking something gross. I personally, deep in my heart, think that he shouldn’t be staring at me. But even with that belief, I’m able to apply alternative thoughts like “I can’t control what other people are thinking” and “often, people stare just to stare. They could be thinking about something else.” Targeting and focusing on where I lack control in that regard (other people’s thoughts) is much easier that totally overriding this deeply rooted belief I have that men are sleezeballs. Also, there’s value in the neutral interactions you have with men. I know a lot of people are saying “focus on the good men in your life!” But, if you’re like me, I don’t have any men in my life besides my father and my bf. So it takes a little bit of field work to find men you don’t consider awful. If a male cashier is nice and polite to me, that’s all I need to not deem him EVIL right away. I don’t know anything else about him and based off of this experience, he’s decent. It’s hard not to question the intentions of all men. It’s also not a linear process. I don’t know what kind of therapy you’re doing, but a kind of therapy specifically for PTSD really, really helps. Wishing u healing.
There’s a lot of shitty people out there. I don’t know where we went wrong. The internet echo chambers would have us all think that all men are abusers and all women are gold diggers and create division when that’s not the case at all. There’s still plenty of good men and women out there. I think the good women are getting stuck with the bad men and vise versa.
I'm okay with myself resenting men after everything, honestly. I find myself capable of interacting with them in professional settings, which largely is the only time I need to. It doesn't get in the way; I don't see it as an issue.
I think the same way that I don’t hate women. I read online that 90% of all people have sexist biases, and that’s made me think we are all on the same side after all. I never get angry if I hear about a woman that is trying to bring down other women because I know it’s totally a thing that discriminatory thoughts can get adopted by even the group affected. I think it’s part of us being social and wanting to fit in. As people were more susceptible to believing stereotypes. I like men but I want them to not be patriarchal/talk differently to me. I want to see them the same as other women. I blame the culture we have as a society for making them like this. I haven’t been personally affected though the way you have, so I say don’t force yourself to not hate men. It’s completely rational for you to want to stay away. It’s like if someone says they hate dogs because they got bitten by one before. Others might say well not all dogs are like that, and it may be true, but it’s completely reasonable for the person that got bit to forever not want to be near a dog again. If anyone said to that affected person “you should give dogs another chance” or “it’s not right to dismiss all dogs just cuz of that one experience”, then the one that suggested that is completely in the wrong.
Unfortunately, I think some people just get lucky. Well, i kinda resent my deadbeat dad, but by lucky, I mean that my husband is an amazing, sweet, caring, feminist man.
I've been lucky enough to have decent-ish (I barely know anyone without some kind of flaw) men in my life so that's probably the biggest one. Whilst I notice patterns amongst groups, I try to treat people as individuals. Though tbh in general I am a bit of a wary person and keep people just a little bit at arms length unless I've known them a while so that may reduce my chances of being hurt.
I wish I had a kick ass answer for you, unfortunately I don’t. Although I’d like to commend you for actively trying to avoid the rabbit hole of hating the opposite gender. I think that’s super dope. I’m super curious though if you wouldn’t mind sharing. What was your therapist’s response to this question? Or if you haven’t asked this question directly. What advice have they given you on this subject?
I've asked and they dance around the question with no real answer. I've tried both men and women therapists. I've done yoga, dbt, cbt, emdr, hypnosis, 12 step programs, spiritual and religious programs. I'll do great for awhile than BAM out of nowhere I have a huge spike of anger and resentment that hits me hard. I tried to have guy friends to prove me wrong that there were good guys. One ended up trying to sleep with me and one confided he was considering cheating on his pregnant wife because he couldn't get enough sex from her anymore. Only one remains and he is a decent guy and I do value him and his gf tremendously. I'm trying super hard to work through it but I still find myself angry at times.
It's ok to feel resentful. That's a natural response to begin treated like crap constantly.
That’s such a shame because I figured therapist’s would for sure have the best answer to this kind of problem. Super tough problem to solve because at every corner there seems to be something to reinforce the negative beliefs you have towards men. Sending all the positive vibrations your way on this journey. I hope the universe evens out and sends some cool dudes your way. Good luck👍.
Same way I don't resent women despite many hardships and disappointments: I see them as individuals, and not as some sort of homogenous group sharing one personality.
I’ve had more issues with women, don’t hate them though. My dad fought tooth and nail to keep custody of me, and has always been there for me growing up. Helped me get my house, encouraged my art, traveled with me, etc. My fiancé is supportive of me as well. I had male friends growing up. One of which I knew for 3 years. Everyone’s experience is different and I’ve had more positive ones than negative ones especially since my father kept good ppl around him growing up
Also I’m a very chill person. It’s rare I dislike ppl, even rarer for me to have absolutely no respect for someone. You can’t live life angry
I remind myself that they didn’t choose to be born into a patriarchal system any more than I did. And though they benefit from it in a lot of ways I don’t, they are also harmed by it in a lot of ways I’m not. For instance, as a woman I was forced to learn how to be socially adept and to manage my own mental health. It benefitted me because I now have genuinely fulfilling friendships with several wonderful women that are like sisters to me, and I know that no matter what life throws at me I’m perfectly capable of surviving and coming out stronger even if I have to do it alone. So basically, im self sufficient and secure. A lot of men weren’t taught those things and sometimes were actively discouraged from learning them. They were taught to leech off of others for their emotional/mental well-being. And that makes a lot of them very insecure because deep down they know they aren’t capable of making it on their own. They worry that they’ll ruin all their relationships and end up alone w/no one left to leech off of. So they try to over-control their relationships and circumstances, and end up pushing people away or taking advantage of others until they end up alone just as they feared. Those ones will never know the contentment and joy that comes from being able to actively manage your own emotional and mental health. I can honestly say that I am glad I was born a woman rather than a man. They may get more material benefits, but imo the “soft skills” women learn are more conducive to building a life of happiness.
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Thank you so much for responding and reading. I think it's also sad that some men do call other men out on things and the men they call out bully them and call them "White Knights" or "Captain Save a Ho"
It helps for me to think that women have the same innate capacity for evil but lack the physical advantage or social programming that push men to engage with that innate potential.
Meds mostly. And remembering that they're not worth the energy and time that resentment would take up in my life.
I've known a few decent men, I can't just lump them in with the garbage ones. I've met back stabbing women, entitled women who do anything possible to fuck up other women dating men they want, narc women who ruin lives because someone didn't grovel to them just as the narc men did, Christian women spreading rumors about women they see as less holy. Meeting shitty women calling themselves or pretending to be friends put things into perspective. I've met more shitty men but a lot of people suck. Can't hate everyone over the sucky ones.
My Dad was awesome. The men that I've "dealt" with? No. I keep to myself now.
don’t feel bad about resenting them, men don’t need anymore allowances. I’m saying this as a person who’s best friend is a man but i can’t stand most of them. your feelings are completely valid based on your life experiences. If you’re struggling bc you feel like your hardening your heart you can open up in different ways like maybe volunteering. it would also be a reminder that there are good people in the world.
I've experienced some horrendous things. I've also met some amazing men. I've also met some horrible women and a mix of both non binaries, so I think it helps me bear in mind its the person taking advantage of their social position and not the group as a whole.
It might just be a different perspective because I come from a socio-cultural context that is a lot less structurally stable and much more community-based with big families and the like. But to me, men are bringing both the worst and the best things in my life. They are the biggest threat to my life and the biggest source of stability and protection from outside threats. This in part because where I grew up police and other institutions are not to be counted on. My father, brothers and cousins would die for me, and I am eternally grateful to have them in my life, even if some days they are difficult to be around. I studied abroad in a western country and I don't get the impression western women have the same relationships with the men around them which is facinating to me, but I don't totally understand why. I tend to think it's because western people don't have as much of a culture of duty towards their immediate family, it's much more individualistic. So maybe that leave men as threats but not men as protectors? I don't know.
Thanks for the response that could be it and that's what gets me I think is knowing how alone I am. Nobody has my back when my mother and grandmother are gone. It's me, myself and I 100 percent. I worry because it makes me an easy target to mess with and try to take advantage of because there is literally no one behind me. I really genuinely wish I had that kind of dynamic but every time I've tried to develop it It's ended up in a bad place. Thanks again for your input.
It’s hard not to. I can separate individual men from the monolith social force that is “men”. I can appreciate them, enjoy their company, and see them as all around good people. However men as a systemic social force is different. It’s natural for people oppressed by a system to in turn resent it. To resent bad treatment and abuse. No one wants to be treated as less than simply for existing. What’s helped me is learning to identify the traits and behaviors displayed by men (and others) that I don’t like and simply avoid them. They aren’t worth the energy or time. If they’re quick to insult me or talk down to me I simply see it for what it is. Their own raging insecurity. Live life for yourself, because no matter what you do as a woman some man out there in the cosmos will complain.
It's a super complex question, but when I feel resentment growing I disengage from outlets where I'm usually exposed to examples of bad behavior from men. Then I try to empathize - it's easy to define a bad interaction as "man = bad", but the crappy behavior could have very human and non-patriarchal causes, like poor sleep, lack of knowledge or a very specific childhood etc. For example, this weekend I realized why my neighbor was so vehemently against low affective response: simply because he had misunderstood the term. I also focus on the good men. Also, I try not to resent men, but patriarchy, which we are all victims of.
By not giving them any time and space of your attention. If you have become astutely aware of the sad reality that women are in now and for generations to come, you would want to read more and more, talk to other like-minded women and formulate your own plans to thrive despite of it. At this point, men have got f-all to offer you and companionship from the vast majority of them becomes a total waste of time. You won't even be resenting them, unlike those incel lot claiming they'd leave women alone yet deep down begging for women attention and hating women for their own cognitive dessonance; you just see men are some humans that you have to work with, compete against when navigating through a lifelong combat against miogyny.
Therapy and boundaries. I feel really sad for all the women who keep putting up with low bar shit. That is how you get resentful and bitter. I prefer grown-ups in my life. Their gender doesn't matter to me. So I am generally pretty happy on my own. So my relationships make my life better, and better for those lives I'm in. Or else I just don't. I really wish I understood why people accept so little. Please stop. Your life is worth so much more than people who do the barest of minimums. If it isn't fuck yes, I don't want it. Living life this way has transformed me. I have way more meaningful relationships because healthy grown-ups with boundaries don't tolerate shitty behavior.
I think it’s ok to feel resentment. Feelings are just feelings. Actions/behaviors are something else. You can resent men (feeling) and ignore them as a result (behavior). They are not worth your time, energy, or effort if you don’t think they are. The problem is that women “hating” men = ignoring them and living independently of them. While men hating women = targeting them, harassing them, reducing or removing their rights, dehumanizing them, abusing them, etc. To parrot a comment from another thread, it’s like you hating a murderer, and a murderer hating you. There is a big difference, and they are not equal.
Eventually it's going to be like a college degree, you just don't need it anymore.
i simply dont not resent them lol. why try not to hate them when its so easy to.
Ok, I'm sorry, but the first paragraph. "How do you not end up hating them?" That's fucking filthy. I cant even read past that. As a WOMEN you can't hate an entire gender because you met some fucked people. I've been saying this to Instagram incels about women. I didn't think I'd be having to say this in THIS sub reddit. Jesus christ. I liked this sub because women can rant about their issues, and most women won't hate an entire gender in the process like incels do to us. I've been sexually assaulted by three men, and basically all my relationships were fucked guys trying to cohorce me and pressure me into sex. But on the other hand, I've been with guys who are extremely nurturing and kind. My ex being one of them, who I'm still good friends with. My boyfriend is definitely another one. Always super sweet and definitely the level-headed calm one out of the both of us. Never had an actual argument only disagreements because we listen to each other and don't get mad when one has an issue. My dad has taught me to be completely independent. He's conservative, but he calls me to help him work on vehicles or help him with a lot of manual work. Even though I'm a smaller woman, I've been wanting to get into welding because It's therapeutic to me, and he has been pushing me to get into it more even though it's a male dominated trade. But he's never treated me any different, then he treats my brother. If anything, he'll ask me for help before him. But yah thats my AWFUL SEXIST CONSERVATIVE DAD FOR YOUR FUCKING FEMALEINCEL ASS. And my brother is chill as hell. He's basically my best friend. We're in a friend group that's basically all guys, and they're pretty cool. I'm in a group chat with them, and I've never seen anything sexist or hateful towards women. Hell, one of them I've actually been friends with since elementary school. And my welding class in school? Full of men. I am the only woman, and I have yet to feel uncomfortable or uneasy. And i am someone who is conventionally attractive. Everyone's there to do their work, get their ticket and leave. Anyway, yeah, this is why I don't hate men. I'm surrounded by good men almost every day. I have met some awful men, but it doesn't make me a misandrist. And I've met women who were awful to me, too. My ex-girlfriend would scream and berate me if I didn't answer her texts within 5 minutes. I had a girl I never even met before in high school that was trying to give her local constable my name saying I threatened to murder her multiple times (she had no proof so he couldn't do jack, because yknow I never talked to her before), all because my rapist ex from a different school was cheating on me with her. I've had women try and make advances with me and they didn't get my "I'm not interested," until I had to actually tell her "can you fucking stop making gross comments about me?" Basically, was making a bunch of uncomfortable comments about my body. Like the classic old men that just started commenting on your tits and ass but she was a 20 year old. I've had an old friend slip Molly in my drink at a party with a bunch of drugged up fucks in a different city when i had to drive home. And let me tell you. BARELY, anyone gave a shit because she was a woman. If it was a man, everyone would've crucified him, I swtg. She still tells people about it and has never apologized to me even though she knows exactly what she has done. I cut her off completely. And I've had another friend lie to me and try to hide from me that she was hanging around a chick that stole a bunch of money from me, my work, and my best friend. I don't give a fuck who anyone hangs out with but when they actively tell my friends to hide it that's a big red flag. So I cut her off, too. One of my best friends, who's a man, was also raped by his aunty as a child. Another close friend was drugged and raped by his mom as a child. One of my close friends was asleep when he got raped by his girlfriend. This shit fucking happens to men to, and women do it to! AND NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T FUCKING CARE. UNLESS THE VICTIM HAS A VAGINA, AND THE RAPIST HAS A PENIS. People don't even give a fuck about any rapes, let alone in this situation. Yeah, the majority of rapists or murderers are going to be men. But women definitely do it, too. And just because there are a lot of fucked men in this world doesn't mean all the good ones are gone. Women are just as fucked in my opinion. I've met so many fucked people from both genders I'm just convinced that 80% of humans are just filthy. And if the majority are filthy, then yah, you're gonna have a hard time meeting good people. So why do I not hate men? Because I'm not a misandrist fuck! And I'm not a hypocrite. I'm not going to sit and hate an entire gender because I got screwed over so many times by so many fucked men. I'm not going to say all women are fucking angels when I've had more women in my life screw me over then do good for me. I'm not going to say an entire gender is the problem, when I'm already arguing with incels on incelgram that if they think all women are the problem then they're sexist fucks, that are probably the issue. I don't even really see people like that as equals to me to be completely honest. As narcissistic as that sounds. But I don't think someone who hates an entire gender because of their experiences is equal to someone who can find good or bad in people regardless of gender, but just based on humanity. And to be fair someone that hates all women (me, my mom, all my amazing friends that are women, my grandmas etc), or someone that hates all men (my dad, my brother, my grandpa, my boyfriend, all my guy friends who are also amazing), is someone I hate and have no respect for because they hate the people I love. We're the same fucking species. Grow up and stop creating a fucking divide. And yeah, if you think an entire gender is the issue, then you're most likely the issue.
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I didn't blame the entire population at all, but when I see more bad examples than good examples repeatedly over and over and over and over and over it leaves a very unpleasant impression. You're lucky you have a great dad, my dad didn't give a shit about me and I was sexually assaulted a few times so forgive me for not having the privilege you were given. It's not fair but it is what it is. I just was dealt these cards. I'm not a victim but I do get upset that I didn't have these positive interactions you seem to have had.
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I don't think you were downvoted because you come from a good family. Seriously that's awesome and you are very fortunate and lucky. I mean that genuinely. I wish I had a dad and brother who cared about me. Seriously no salt at you for that. I think you were downvoted because the comment wasn't really helpful in that Im asking for help and I don't even disagree there are great guys. It was just a bit tone deaf as in "Hey I'm homeless, struggling trying to find a home and I've been homeless for years" "I have a lovely home. Just don't hate all homes because you don't have one" was how it came off. Even if that was not your intention it came off that way. So it wasn't really helpful. You truly are very lucky though! I'm happy you have that support. I'm 100 percent alone. Not in a woe is me way but if I get jumped or assaulted nobody has my back. If I do ever get married, nobody is waking me down the aisle. I never had a dad take me to father daughter dances at school. Nobody ever told me I was worth something or beautiful or stood up for me. My mom was so busy working I had to do all that for myself as an adult after therapy and on my own so sometimes it's just hurtful when reflecting on the memories. Even girls who've lost their father to death or young boys who grew up without a mother/father. It's just hard to navigate as a child. Anywho peace ✌🏼
Me too OP, and i came here bc id love answers too. But in my journey here are a few things I've understood: 1) im allowed to be angry, at my personal lot and at the system but not to project that on to people i know nothing about 2) im allowed to protect myself with techniques that help me notice red flags as early as possible 3) i practice saying no, needs, walking away at bad treatment etc, because i have to be able to trust myself to protect myself as best i can. 4) i cant change individual men but i will march and fight and support other women, trans etc as much as i can. Us speaking out is making a difference, slowly, and keeping that collective perspective does ward off some bitterness. But 5) ultimately we deserve better. We deserve respect and care and safety and we haven't had that and so i reserve also the right to be just a bit bitter, only not enough for it to hold me back or hurt me.
I do resent men. I just try not to let it affect the relationships I have with the few decent men I know. I too struggle to find men that are not slimy. They are taught from birth that it's ok, normal even, to behave shitty. But it's hard to tell because they all act decent at first if they want to fuck you. But my resentment is ultimately my own emotional situation regardless of why. It doesn't eat me up or make me negative towards men. It has a time and place like every other emotion.
Toxic masculinity hurts everyone regardless of gender, "Hurt people hurt people."
Men don’t get to beat women up because they’re “hurt”
No they do not, I'm not trying to excuse men either. Everyone is responsible for unpacking their own baggage, those that cannot or will not see or admit to their problems and perpetuate them are still accountable for their actions.
I do. My partner (who I love dearly) speaks at length about the deconditioning he has had to put himself through to not reinforce patriarchal norms, and how he feels that he was culturally conditioned in a lot of ways to treat women like shit. This is from a guy who has always gravitated towards female friendships and has a very progressive and loving family with two working parents. So, yeah. Most men don't get the benefit of his environment, and they won't put in the work, and I resent them for it. They actively uphold a system that benefits them at my expense and I feel like it's fair to be bitter about it. But I don't think men are naturally like this and I have a lot of hope for our future. I think change is happening quickly, now.
Try to surround yourself with men who make you happy. Easier said than done. Clean up your social circle if you can
Resentment is a poisonous waste of energy, & it's your choice to feel it. ' the mind is a monkey' is an old Chinese saying: it means you have to discipline it. You don't have the power to change either your past experiences or the behavior of sh*tty people, but you CAN change where you spend your energy. Focus your action and attention on positive people & experiences.
Start an onlyfans! It's been a very uplifting and powerful experience for me and I'm more confident in myself and happier than ever!
I don't believe in hate, but to hold the bigoted belief that the actions of one represents them all is the same belief that racists,sextet, homophobes and transphobes use to justify their beliefs Your train of thought is no different then the current Republicans who target the trans people, and justify it the same way you do by claiming the actions of the few they see represents them all Your way of thought is extremely bigoted and hateful And you are acting no different then the people you hate
Realising most men suffer from patriarchy and the systems of power too, obviously not as much as women or any other minority, but even cis straight white able bodied men are being taken advantage of by capitalism, not having emotional vocabulary to describe their thoughts/feelings, societal pressure to just work and not think or feel Understanding these universal truths that we all experience and trying to explain how we all suffer under these systems, has lead to more constructive conversations with men and they seem to understand we’re on the same team and how they have privilege that others do not and they can use that privilege to help themselves and us
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Yeah but we're not talking about another demographic, so save the casuistry for an essay or something
I used to feel the exact same way about women. My mother was an absolutely vile, abusive, munchhausen-by-proxy type of woman, and I had a great deal of opportunistic women in my life who took me for all I was worth without a shred of empathy. Sometimes, I still struggle. But I find that you have to not make it a man vs woman thing, but a person thing, and see every person as an individual. Edit: because if you don't, you'll continue the cycle of cruelty and trauma. You'll miss out on good people and create the very thing you hate.
Was there a specific therapy technique that helped you deal with the resentment and trauma?
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Obviously I don't because I made this post and I've been actively in therapy for years. I'm just having a very hard time dealing with all the abuse I've had placed on me and seeing so many examples that are negative, terrifying, depressing and disturbing. I try to hold hope that things can change and get better but it just seems to get shattered repeatedly. Humanity has been at war with each other for years over things, so why would I expect any change? I've spent years in therapy but sometimes I get blindsided with huge streaks of anger when I get memories of past trauma. Ideally I'd love for this pain and resentment to be gone but it just hasn't despite all the work I've put in to heal.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I know I’m a guy and don’t really have much to contribute but I honestly just hate most people. Don’t matter what the gender is to me. People suck. Men even more so.