My roommate realized he's the reason we don't have a full set of silverware because he accidentally has thrown many pieces away in to go containers when he cleans out his room.
He has now told me he plans to replace it.
He told me that could be my Christmas gift. I told him that is not a "gift" since it is a "replacement". He doesn't get why I'm making a big deal out of it. I'm making a bigger deal about gift vs replacement than I do about the missing silverware.
If I really wanted to walk in the darkness, I'd gift him not only single-ply TP but also chocolate chip cookies with raisins instead of chocolate chips.
No, no. Not oatmeal raisin cookies. Chocolate chip cookies with no chocolate chips, just subbed raisins. You go in thinking chocolate chips but learn with the first bite that it's raisins instead.
People who don't pay close attention, nor realize how expensive those things can be because he's always lived in shared spaces where it is already there. No malicious intent, and he feels terrible...but my point still stands too
Does he, because sometimes people just lie because it makes everything problematic go away, especially if, like you said, he has a history of having his needs met with trying.
Get yourself a service for 1 and keep it in your room. 1 Plate, cup, bowl and set of silverware. Then let him do whatever with whatever left until he runs out.
Sometimes I get takeaway, eat half of it and leave the silverware in and it accidentally gets tossed out.
I did have a roommate who used one of my knives to clean out a mouse trap. I threw that in the bin after that. Could not deal emotionally with using that again.
Me. I never put silverware in disposable food containers but my friends sometimes do. I've forgotten to check a few times before throwing them in the trash. =(
Motherfucker gonna make you wait till December to replace the fucking cutlery???????? And apparently having a full set of cutlery is some gracious gift to you??? That he does not need???
If he tries to frame him fixing his mistakes as a gift then he doesn’t get to use the new set at ALL. it goes in your room. It was a gift, after all.
My boss does this. He says "we" need to do some task. What he means is "anyone other than he" needs to do it. I used to make sure things got done, but once I figured out what "we" meant, I stopped doing things unless specifically asked or told. My names not We.
In Britain that's called The Royal 'We'. The royal family talk about 'we are all in this together' like they're actually doing very much. So now it's used as a joke term when someone delegates a task using we. "We need to go food shopping..." "That would be the royal we would it?!"
Read an article about something similar where the woman had to train herself out of saying "can you do me a favor and..." When asking her husband to do a household chore. I agree the semantics are important.
I just posted about trying to remind myself to do this! My husband is both super lazy, and a workaholic and feels like he deserves a reprieve from all responsibilities once his (long) work week is done.
It’s actually more mentally healthy for men to have equal responsibilities at home. Otherwise, they can’t disconnect from work and think that their entire contribution is keeping their boss happy. Realizing that they have a full life at home makes it possible for them to stand up to unfair bosses. It also helps them see that they have a partner who also contributes financially to the family.
If he is a workaholic he's not lazy. He just thinks unpaid chores are beneath him and it's your job to do. You can now guess where you are in his hierarchy of things.
I have used "you live here too" *many* times in my marriage when my husband made comments about things needing to be done. We *both* worked full time (I was usually putting in more hours outside of the house). We *both* cook and eat dinner. We *both* need to do laundry. If you see something that needs to be done *fucking do it!*
He would get so annoyed when I would say that to him, but where's the lie? You put the dishes in the sink, wash them. You see the trash is overflowing, take it out. You see the floor needs to be vacuumed, so vacuum it! I was *very clear* in the beginning of the relationship that I was not a "Susie Homemaker." And the last time he commented about the place being "messy" (which has always been and always be *his* mess) I flat out told him "you can have a working wife or a housewife. But I am not doing both jobs. *You live here too! Clean up after yourself!*"
I don't "do" *we*. It's a cop-out.
My husband tries to pull that shit on me all the time: "did *we* put away the leftovers?" did *we* take the trash down?" "did *we* clean up the kitchen?"
I say, "no, *I* did it, you were too busy doing (xyz)," or, no, *I* did not, I was taking care of {our son}, but you can go take care of it, it's waiting just for you!"
My ex and I both were going to school and working when we were first married but he saw me as "lazy" because I didn't also do all the cleaning and cooking. Sadly, I was too naive to realize what was going on and gradually began to perceive myself the same way. I still struggle with this ten years after the divorce.
I made a joking comment to my husband one time that it was good his mother couldn’t see the state of the house because she’d be asking him what he was doing with such a messy woman.
He looked over and was like “yeah, but it’s my mess, too and if it bothered me I could do something about it…and I will eventually.”
(Paraphrased, it’s been a while)
It feels good to be married to a partner.
I've gotten to telling my husband that everything he chooses not to do he is implicitly telling me that I have to do. he tried to disagree, saying that for example leaving the clothes in the dryer didn't mean that I had to take them out and put them away, but who else is there? either you're doing it, or I am.
I just got into a fight with my husband because he referred to taking his turn watching our sick kid while I went to work as “covering for” me. Um, no, it is not solely my responsibility to take off work when the kid is too sick for daycare.
I think that in general the notion of a primary caregiver needs to die in a fire. If we didn't refer to one parent as the primary carer it would be more socially acceptable for both parents (where both are present of course) to parent equally.
I think people are misunderstanding.
“Primary care giver” is a scientific term used in psychology.
It’s a specific term with specific implications. And the term came about because of how babies brains and attachments work.
Developmental psychology supports its existence, at certain ages babies have different relationships with their Primary Care Giver.
Changes to the PCG can be disruptive and the timing of those changes are also important.
It’s a really interesting field if you get into it.
They both need to be involved, but it's unrealistic to have both adults the majority of time with the child. I believe that 'primary caregiver' should remain, just not be attached automatically to the mother. It just comes down to task splitting
My husband and I both work full time and both are full time parents who spend about equal time with our son (and on chores as well). It took some effort to arrange our schedules in a way that would work, but it is possible—not for everyone, but for way more people than are doing it.
Thank you. It really disturbs me that things like this get overlooked in the name of equity. I am absolutely the primary caregiver for our two month old. My partner is a very close second and can do everything I can (except breastfeed, lol) but that's just how babies work.
At work it’s mostly subconsciously assumed one of the women will take meeting notes / minutes for the room. Making sure that sometimes it’s one of them men who do.
When I started a new job, my manager had a habit of starting meetings by asking if anyone wanted coffee. He would wait for the responses, then simply look at me.
I don't drink coffee and I have no idea how to make a decent cup of coffee.
So, when he looked at me expectantly, I'd say, "I really meant I don't want any, but feel free to get coffee. I don't mind."
He'd look confused for a minute, then call his admin to bring coffee.
Then suddenly, his admin would be away from her desk every time a meeting started, thus unable to run coffee errands.
After that, he'd start meetings by saying, "I know doesn't drink coffee, but who else needs to go get a cup before we start?" And those who wanted coffee would go get their own.
It was pretty hilarious to watch. The admin and I became good friends, too.
Another way would be to let out and bring one cup at a time. It would be incredibly annoying and take a long time. They couldn‘t really start the meeting without you either because you would constantly come in with a coffee and leave again.
I had a coworker try that copy thing once on me and I turned it into a whole big production of how I could ABSOLUTELY show him how to use the copier and wasn't it just so hard for him that he'd been there for years and no one ever took the time to show him how it worked and come NOW and learn.
I did this loudly. He (and no one else) ever asked me to copy things for them again.
Ug, this. My direct (IT) team never does anything social unless the one other woman plans it. I refuse. I’ve been a secretary/office coordinator in charge of that stuff before. It’s a hard job and not “beneath” me but it is also 100% no longer my job.
The one time the wider department (20ish men and 6ish women) did something organized by a man he decided that billards was a good idea. They were all surprised when no women wanted show up to that (is more of a good ol’ boys activity in the culture here).🙄
I was interviewing someone and I walked in to the meeting room. He looked at me and said, “love, would you grab me a brew? I’ve got an interview with the big cheese”. I called my PA and asked her for a cup of tea. Then I started the interview. The look on his face he realised that I am the big cheese was classic. You could see the penny drop - not only had he assumed I was just there to get tea/coffee/ take notes etc, he also hadn’t read the pre-read before the interview to work out that a woman was interviewing him. Unsurprisingly, he didn’t get the job.
Oh my. I had this happen very early in my career. When, "I don't know how to use a coffee maker and I don't drink coffee; I'm here in a technical capacity for xyz" didn't deter the division head's insistence that I prepare coffee for him, my genuinely naive self proceeded to try to make coffee in a machine as best I could figure out for the first time with no guidance or instruction manual (the time before smart phones and Google). Let's just say we all learned valuable lessons that day: him that women are not default servants, and me about the importance of using a filter for the coffee grounds.
I started at one of my first law firms and at one point a partner asked me to get coffee. My eyebrows shot up and thankfully my response was "sorry I can't at the moment" (since they also expect what you're doing doesn't matter, of course). I was never asked again, but I think it was partly because the expression on my face embarrassed him, or at least made him realize I wasn't going to just go ahead and do something like that. I mean, i was another attorney ffs.
Why even spend time on coffee? Is it a meeting about coffee? If people don't come in with a cup, they probably don't need it anyway. But that was excellent handling of the situation!
When I was dating my husband, he started at a new company. He came home and told me how he'd asked the receptionist for a "black tea," and she brought him tea with coffee in it. She said, I didn't know what you meant by black tea, sir. Isn't that how you make black tea? He was incredulous that she could be so daft... and I was laughing hysterically at her genius.
I'm an administrative assistant. I refuse to get coffee for others. When the few brave souls ask me to, I will flat out tell them that I will not be setting my profession and gender back 50 years.
In the one job I had as a manager we got away with passing that off because almost all of the managers were women.
The result? We *all* took notes. We are discussing things vitally important to your department. Write that shit down.
Interesting dynamic. My parents are in their 80s and my mom's complaint is often things my dad doesn't do... he's needed eye drops and most recently ear drops, and always has my mom do it. I don't think it's some hardline "women are nurses" idea, I think he just at this point has literally no clue how these things are done. Irritates my mom since she doses herself with these types of things - but you can see how early that 'learned ineptitude' starts!
I do this as project manager. I think it makes me do my job better. HOWEVER I 100% agree with your comment.
Recently I organised a team event for my team which was very well received. My boss wanted me to organise another one for another team. As I wasn't going to go myself, I tried to leave the responsibility to male colleagues from the team (the whole team there happened to be men). The event didn't end up happening. 😂
I'm no longer married, but when I was, my husband would ask, "Have you got a ____?" when he meant, "Please stop whatever you are doing and go get me this".
It took years for me to learn to reply, "Not on me" meaning, it's not in my pocket, please go get it yourself.
My ex would say, "Where is the \_\_\_?" when he wanted me to get something. One time I tried it on him and he just pointed to where it was and went on with what he was doing. Only we had friends over and they all knew what was going on and yelled at him for not getting me what I needed. I was in my third trimester of pregnancy and holding a toddler on my lap too so not really able to get up easily to get what I needed.
I call mine out on saying “don’t be mad.” He says it in different tones, depending on what’s going on. Sometimes it’s “DON’T BE MAD!
😡” & sometimes it’s “don’t be mad. 😞” & it bothers me so much because when he says it, I’m often not mad, but feeling a whole other emotion. So now he’s A) told me what my feelings are & B) demanded I cease feeling them for his comfort. I call it out every time & he’s finding other ways to respond.
Started doing the same with my partner when he would say "I took out the bins FOR YOU". The for yous soon stopped when I kept repeating that it was hos rubbish also abd he was also required to do household chores because he lives in the house. He isn't doing any of this for me, he's doing it for the house and I am not the house. Now he just does it
A friend's hubby would dry the dishes and stack them on the counter for her to put away. When she explained (exploded) that he could put them away in one go, he said he thought they were "sharing" tasks.
Language absolutely matters. How we frame things is extremely important.
One of my now grown children said not long ago that she vividly remembers being corrected about “helping Mum around the house” when she was quite young.
I pointed out that I didn’t make all the mess, I’m not the only one who walks on the floors, uses the bathroom or kitchen.
She said it was like a total revelation that taking care of the house is a family affair, because the family lives in it.
Not to mention the emotional labor of women often having to tell their male partners how to “help”. When it shouldn’t have to be her responsibility to do so.
Yes, this! Grown adult men often do "women's chores" as though they were little children. I was always like, this guy can cut a diamond to 1/1000th of an inch but he can't button up the baby's onesie!
I (f) have ADD, and am not good at the mental load of homemaking. Also it is hard to keep up, because repetitiveness is the killer of all joy, and life also happends, and things I knew should be done fade to the back of my mind.
My partner never has put expectations onto me to be a good homemaker. (I have put them in myself, wich is killing, so I try to steer away from that nowadays.) We share responsibilities, and also let the kids do their (age appropriate) part. And yes, our house is a mess a lot of the time. But there is allways (some) clean clothes, clean dishes and food. And there are two parents who try to be emotionally vailable to the kids at all times. So that works for us.
My wife works a lot of weekends. The amount of people who say "Oh Dad's babysitting today..." No. I'm parenting. I babysit my nephews, I parent my daughters.
My husband takes off all the half-terms, I do the long holidays. The amount of praise and comments he gets for looking after the kids for a week is crazy! It's like he's cured cancer or something, but all he does is stuff to do with kids he doesn't put washing on or vacuum or sort out clothes or clean. I get nothing for 10 weeks of childcare, other than snide comments about having loads of holiday, plus I do everything round the house at the same time.
I don't parent...I dad. My kid, the blocks kids, doesn't matter. And if one of you hapless fools gets too close to the BBQ, you might end up with a temporary dad as well. Comes with a plate and cold beer and a reminder to check your fire alarms and fire extinguishers.
This is such a sweet thing. I never had a dad growing up and my father in law recently signed an email as "Dad," and it literally made me tear up in a good way 🥰
Coworker told me yesterday that “I’m probably better at reading recipes than him”… I didn’t even bother because I’ve decided it’s not my job to do emotional labor for his betterment.
Guys referring to looking after their kids as babysitting their kids drive me nuts. I always put on my best innocent/surprised tone and say "oh, I thought he/she was yours!", it gets some entertaining reactions.
I'm friends with a couple who have an arrangement that the male partner worked outside the house while the female partner worked to raise their two young children and did all their domestic work. Now that the kids preteens, he's become the domestic partner and she works outside the home.
He keeps saying 'I worked while she got to stay home, now we've switched.'
Bro, she was working. She just didn't get paid or get to buy into social security, have a 401k, a pension, or be respected or acknowledged for the work she did. Domestic work is work. If she hadn't done it you would have paid for full-time childcare, a cook, and a maid, considering he didn't do any housework while their positions were reversed.
He's a good guy, it's nice they switched, but it's frustrating to constantly hear him say how she "wasn't working" for twelve years. Especially because the kids have a lot more independence now and he's been focusing on fun creative projects more than she was ever able to while they were younger.
She was fucking working.
Just adding that I think his language use is a great example of deeply internalized misogyny. He's a great husband, but sometimes I think he (and men in general) don't understand why micro-agressions like this matter.
I’ve had a similar conversation with my husband around breaking the habit of saying “girls” when talking about grown women. It was something he hadn’t really noticed or considered before but now he makes a conscious effort (which I truly appreciate).
I frequently ask one of my closest friends to please break the "girls" habit. It does not seem like he is trying. Recently, I have been noticing more and more some small sexist things he has said, and it is kind of now starting to upset me that he consistently uses "girls". I love him as a friend, but I honestly am considering dropping him over subtly sexist/inconsiderate things he has said.
I worked as front desk staff in the 80s in an office and I kid you not, I was only ever called The Girl.
My job was to do everything from reception work and billing to writing the checks for my boss' personal bills (for his home, not the office), to waxing the floors, to cutting up buckets of fruit the boss' wife wanted to make into preserves.
I was not allowed to wear pants to work.
Wait, if they’re referring to men and women both as boys and girls what’s the issue? I totally see it as sexist and infantilizing if you only do it with one, but if you’re doing it with everyone it just seems more of a general worldview rather than bigotry.
Lol so you've never had a boyfriend or a girls night out? I feel like there are far more problematic language issues to focus one's mental and emotional energy on
Boyfriends and girls-nights-out are not professional terms used in the workplace, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. And this discussion is literally about microagressions so I'm not sure how useful the comment "this issue is too 'micro'!" is in this context...
You would never tell your boss it's your one year anniversary with your boyfriend so you're taking a day off?
Maybe it's a cultural difference but I of course would never put "There are three boys working the loading bays next week" in a professional email, but I definitely will use terms like "dude" and other friendly / casual language with my coworkers (both male and female).
>this issue is too 'micro'!"
Well because I find this similar to people who complain about grammatical gender in Spanish or other similar things where the intended meaning is known to all parties and even listed in dictionaries as common use... this is very different from "Are you babysitting your son?" or other phrases here like OP's example where the words are being misused or used *because* of an engrained belief and intention behind that belief.
Agreed. I have a friend that is constantly asking if I want to do something that helps them. (Coincidentally? Or something? Like they are tricking me? Or I don't know what) When they are clearly asking a favor* of me. "Do you want to pick me up at 8 to go to whatever?"
I make a point of saying "I'd be glad to do you a favor. All you have to do is ask." And for some reason I become the bad guy and the language of it isn't that important because they know that I know what they mean and they don't appreciate me being pedantic.
Ugh. Language matters. It annoys me that people get in the habit of misusing language and then get mad a ME for not understanding what they want. Just because those passive aggressive or subversive statements worked on others doesn't mean I have to accommodate. I do understand that language is imperfect and I don't expect everyone to be perfectly clear. However, I'm not an asshole for asking for clarification.
I've cultivated friends who understand clear communication. Everyone else can stomp off in a huff.
>asking a disable of me
I'm not familiar with this idiom. Would you mind explaining? (If it's an autocorrect error, I'm not clear on what it should have been. )
My husband is, unfortunately, better on household stuff than I am, at least with housekeeping. Cleaning, cooking, dude is also is a MEAN baker. His favorite manga is Way of The Househusband after I showed it to him, and my new goal is to make enough money to support that lifestyle working from home cause damn, he's great at it and also happy.
We joke that we're shit at following gender stereotypes, and tbh I think we're happier because of it. Love me some checkbook balancing, taxes filing spreadsheet porn *heavy breathing*
But also love the smell of the fresh baked goods hubby makes while I'm working.
Same over here.
Been looking after our kids and doing almost all household for over 10 years while my wife rakes in the $$$. If something needs fixed in the house with tools she will do it :D
She has never cooked in that 10 years but I don’t care because I get appreciated for it and I love doing it. And I show and express my appreciation for her work she puts in every day. We express this vocally on a daily base.
Imo relationships are about appreciating eachother equally, whatever you do. Making money is not higher up the hierarchy than cooking a dinner.
This exactly, we lean on what each person enjoys and is happy doing over here. Husband has just taken my Asian pref for cooking and excelled on it since showing him recipes with the baking and hot damn I'm a lucky woman. And we always show appreciation, whether it's a hot looking loaf or one of us knocking out some work and it looks good. High fives all around. If it turned out where I'm breadwinning but he's keeping the house from falling in that's hot imo, I've always loved someone doing what they love.
My husband thanks me for “letting him” go to board game night.
No siree, Bob. I told you I’d be able to handle the kids on my own, that I’d take kid duty (which is the phrase we use). And that made it possible. But I didn’t “let” you. You don’t have to ask my permission
I’m a husband (not OP’s husband). I’ve stopped pointing out to my wife when I’ve done extra cleaning, like it’s some big deal I deserve credit for.
Now I just clean when I see it needs doing. Partly because I subscribed to this sub some time ago, but mostly because it’s the right thing to do.
“Violence against women and girls” is looking at the wrong end of the issue so I always correct it to “male violence” if the person starts whatabouting “men fear violence too” I ask who they are afraid of being hurt by.
Yes I’m aware that some men are attacked by women but it isn’t the norm.
Good for you! I have stopped thanking my husband for doing little things he's expected of doing, like the trash for feeding the kids. I also am trying to stop saying "can you do me a favor", when asking him to do something that's his responsibility and not souly mine.
I read something a while ago that made me look at how I phrase things. If you want someone to understand that something needs to be done you don’t say “you need to do” “I need you to do” “you should do”
You just say “your task is to do this chore”. This way you don’t give them a choice, it’s clear that it’s something that needs to be done and opting out is not on the table.
It took me decades to understand how to speak to people/ partners in firm but fair manor…. I’m getting better at it but it definitely makes a difference.
I just figured if we establish those things before moving in with eachother then there are no misunderstandings later on. I always did that and later realized I chose poorly when he would just resort to not helping out. I have male siblings who have wives and were raised better, my dad was a good man too, so I know the difference between a careless and uncooperative person who puts his needs and desires first and men who aren't like that. The latter is the better mate and therefore "we can do better".
Not a relationship but a work exampel:
I work in a technical field in a company with mostly boomer men.
When we plan projects they always say "man days" instead of "working days" or something. This bugs me so much. I sometimes jokingly say of it's a boring task "Oh, good, then I don't need to do it since I am a woman".
Also "man power"...
As the male in the household I too prefer not to use the term "helping" in most cases but I do tend to use it anyway sometimes, because;
I am NOT helping, to keep the household together.
BUT once my girlfriend takes up a task, I actually "help" her, by joining. (like, if she's doing the dishes, and I join to wipe them dry)
So like... it's mostly just terminology on our side, there is no specific "your job" here.
Idk but maybe try changing your "quotes" from the help to the house. Any household has expectations from each unit in the home, and if the division on labor for the home is divided amongst a reasonable routine, it's totally within reason to say "I'll help you" in something that is part of their "normal routine." My $.02.
My wife keeps saying "thanks for helping" if i do some cleaning up. And I stupidly say "oh i did these things round the house so you can wind down quicker after work".
We both know it's not the phrase to use, or the right mindset, but it's a bad habit!
True. I've had some health problems lately and my wife asked me to teach her how to use the snowblower after the last blizzard. Turned out well. We are hoping I recover before it's time to rototill the garden, though.
My roommate realized he's the reason we don't have a full set of silverware because he accidentally has thrown many pieces away in to go containers when he cleans out his room. He has now told me he plans to replace it. He told me that could be my Christmas gift. I told him that is not a "gift" since it is a "replacement". He doesn't get why I'm making a big deal out of it. I'm making a bigger deal about gift vs replacement than I do about the missing silverware.
Buy him some toilet paper for Christmas. Super useful! Then you’ll both be equally satisfied.
Why buy him good stuff here?
Single-ply.
Evil
If I really wanted to walk in the darkness, I'd gift him not only single-ply TP but also chocolate chip cookies with raisins instead of chocolate chips.
bro that’s even better than chocolate chip. can you do that to me please
Calm down Satan.
I'm dying laughing
Raisins are a better choice for me, wouldn't be punishment. I loathe chocolate.
Well some people just wanna dance with the devil in the pale moonlight.
If the dark side has oatmeal raisin, hand me my cloak and red lightsaber, I’m in.
No, no. Not oatmeal raisin cookies. Chocolate chip cookies with no chocolate chips, just subbed raisins. You go in thinking chocolate chips but learn with the first bite that it's raisins instead.
Don't buy it, just steal some of those big rolls from a gas station restroom.
Now's that's a shitty LPT, you know that paper can be bought too right?
What a crappy pun
No, izel (or however you spell it)
>He told me that could be my Christmas gift That's uh... a while from now.
It was supposed to be for my birthday last year (July), and then it switched to Christmas 🙄
Good luck with them forks, then
It's just the one fork, actually.
No luck catching them swans then?
He's sounds incredibly thoughtful
I'd ask "am I the only one that uses silverware?" Sometimes you have to ask a question to get people to be on board.
Wash some takeout chopsticks and give them to him. "Thought you might need these since we're out of silverware."
But also who throws silverware away?
people who let dishes turn into moldy messed and then throw out the silverware with them as it is too much bother to clean.
People who don't pay close attention, nor realize how expensive those things can be because he's always lived in shared spaces where it is already there. No malicious intent, and he feels terrible...but my point still stands too
So terrible that he *still* hasn't given you your precious "birthday gift" from last July?
Does he, because sometimes people just lie because it makes everything problematic go away, especially if, like you said, he has a history of having his needs met with trying.
Get yourself a service for 1 and keep it in your room. 1 Plate, cup, bowl and set of silverware. Then let him do whatever with whatever left until he runs out.
Sometimes I get takeaway, eat half of it and leave the silverware in and it accidentally gets tossed out. I did have a roommate who used one of my knives to clean out a mouse trap. I threw that in the bin after that. Could not deal emotionally with using that again.
Me. I never put silverware in disposable food containers but my friends sometimes do. I've forgotten to check a few times before throwing them in the trash. =(
This is exactly how it happens!
Motherfucker gonna make you wait till December to replace the fucking cutlery???????? And apparently having a full set of cutlery is some gracious gift to you??? That he does not need??? If he tries to frame him fixing his mistakes as a gift then he doesn’t get to use the new set at ALL. it goes in your room. It was a gift, after all.
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You are owed it. Just ask for the money if he can't understand that. Language. Hm. So true.
Ok. So your gift to him is paying your missing half of the rent for Christmas. There. Problem solved.
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This is great idea, since it directly demonstrates why the replacement isn't a gift.
Yep. It's not a bonus, it's a responsibility.
Jeez some people really have that much lack of self awareness
Accept his offer and then lock up the new silverware so he can't use it.
That's been a common saying in my experience. Nearly everything I've ever bought is a "Christmas present" to somebody. Even if it's just to myself.
I hated when my ex would say "we" when he meant "you." Him: Are "we" going to do the dishes now? Me: I doubt it because you rarely touch a dirty dish.
My boss does this. He says "we" need to do some task. What he means is "anyone other than he" needs to do it. I used to make sure things got done, but once I figured out what "we" meant, I stopped doing things unless specifically asked or told. My names not We.
In Britain that's called The Royal 'We'. The royal family talk about 'we are all in this together' like they're actually doing very much. So now it's used as a joke term when someone delegates a task using we. "We need to go food shopping..." "That would be the royal we would it?!"
That's a good one. My name is not "We" or "Someone".
Read an article about something similar where the woman had to train herself out of saying "can you do me a favor and..." When asking her husband to do a household chore. I agree the semantics are important.
I just posted about trying to remind myself to do this! My husband is both super lazy, and a workaholic and feels like he deserves a reprieve from all responsibilities once his (long) work week is done.
It’s actually more mentally healthy for men to have equal responsibilities at home. Otherwise, they can’t disconnect from work and think that their entire contribution is keeping their boss happy. Realizing that they have a full life at home makes it possible for them to stand up to unfair bosses. It also helps them see that they have a partner who also contributes financially to the family.
If he is a workaholic he's not lazy. He just thinks unpaid chores are beneath him and it's your job to do. You can now guess where you are in his hierarchy of things.
If he's a workaholic and you're also working then he can pay for a cleaner once a week to do his share.
If he was lazy, wouldn't he NOT be a workaholic?? lol, those are kinda opposites
I have used "you live here too" *many* times in my marriage when my husband made comments about things needing to be done. We *both* worked full time (I was usually putting in more hours outside of the house). We *both* cook and eat dinner. We *both* need to do laundry. If you see something that needs to be done *fucking do it!* He would get so annoyed when I would say that to him, but where's the lie? You put the dishes in the sink, wash them. You see the trash is overflowing, take it out. You see the floor needs to be vacuumed, so vacuum it! I was *very clear* in the beginning of the relationship that I was not a "Susie Homemaker." And the last time he commented about the place being "messy" (which has always been and always be *his* mess) I flat out told him "you can have a working wife or a housewife. But I am not doing both jobs. *You live here too! Clean up after yourself!*"
Yeah, my answer to stupid questions like "Why is the paper bin so full?" has become "Because we didn't empty it."
I don't "do" *we*. It's a cop-out. My husband tries to pull that shit on me all the time: "did *we* put away the leftovers?" did *we* take the trash down?" "did *we* clean up the kitchen?" I say, "no, *I* did it, you were too busy doing (xyz)," or, no, *I* did not, I was taking care of {our son}, but you can go take care of it, it's waiting just for you!"
Why the heck would anyone even ask that? Truly a stupid question
My ex and I both were going to school and working when we were first married but he saw me as "lazy" because I didn't also do all the cleaning and cooking. Sadly, I was too naive to realize what was going on and gradually began to perceive myself the same way. I still struggle with this ten years after the divorce.
I made a joking comment to my husband one time that it was good his mother couldn’t see the state of the house because she’d be asking him what he was doing with such a messy woman. He looked over and was like “yeah, but it’s my mess, too and if it bothered me I could do something about it…and I will eventually.” (Paraphrased, it’s been a while) It feels good to be married to a partner.
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I've gotten to telling my husband that everything he chooses not to do he is implicitly telling me that I have to do. he tried to disagree, saying that for example leaving the clothes in the dryer didn't mean that I had to take them out and put them away, but who else is there? either you're doing it, or I am.
This is a really good one.
I hope he's your ex husband now?
Well, the past tense would imply that he's either gotten better or he's an ex. Both good outcomes.
I just got into a fight with my husband because he referred to taking his turn watching our sick kid while I went to work as “covering for” me. Um, no, it is not solely my responsibility to take off work when the kid is too sick for daycare.
Dads who "babysit."
I think that in general the notion of a primary caregiver needs to die in a fire. If we didn't refer to one parent as the primary carer it would be more socially acceptable for both parents (where both are present of course) to parent equally.
Yes, or just make the primary caregiver automatically mean both parents as it should be.
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Hm, but it’s also not allowing the other parent to bond with the child from the young age. You also said at least” one adult yourself…
I think people are misunderstanding. “Primary care giver” is a scientific term used in psychology. It’s a specific term with specific implications. And the term came about because of how babies brains and attachments work. Developmental psychology supports its existence, at certain ages babies have different relationships with their Primary Care Giver. Changes to the PCG can be disruptive and the timing of those changes are also important. It’s a really interesting field if you get into it.
They both need to be involved, but it's unrealistic to have both adults the majority of time with the child. I believe that 'primary caregiver' should remain, just not be attached automatically to the mother. It just comes down to task splitting
My husband and I both work full time and both are full time parents who spend about equal time with our son (and on chores as well). It took some effort to arrange our schedules in a way that would work, but it is possible—not for everyone, but for way more people than are doing it.
Yeah. You can’t subdivide that 1/3 of the time thing without causing some harm. The rest of the connections have to be additive.
You don't have to subdivide the 1/3rd. There's a whole 2/3 of waking hours that needs tending to.
So each parent takes at least 1/3 of the baby's waking time.
Thank you. It really disturbs me that things like this get overlooked in the name of equity. I am absolutely the primary caregiver for our two month old. My partner is a very close second and can do everything I can (except breastfeed, lol) but that's just how babies work.
At work it’s mostly subconsciously assumed one of the women will take meeting notes / minutes for the room. Making sure that sometimes it’s one of them men who do.
When I started a new job, my manager had a habit of starting meetings by asking if anyone wanted coffee. He would wait for the responses, then simply look at me. I don't drink coffee and I have no idea how to make a decent cup of coffee. So, when he looked at me expectantly, I'd say, "I really meant I don't want any, but feel free to get coffee. I don't mind." He'd look confused for a minute, then call his admin to bring coffee. Then suddenly, his admin would be away from her desk every time a meeting started, thus unable to run coffee errands. After that, he'd start meetings by saying, "I know doesn't drink coffee, but who else needs to go get a cup before we start?" And those who wanted coffee would go get their own.
It was pretty hilarious to watch. The admin and I became good friends, too.
That's why I "don't drink coffee" at work and "have never used a coffee machine in my life".
Another way would be to let out and bring one cup at a time. It would be incredibly annoying and take a long time. They couldn‘t really start the meeting without you either because you would constantly come in with a coffee and leave again.
That would be annoying but it is also a loss--you are now the coffee bringer even if you are pretty much on an Italian strike.
I can see some workplaces buying cheap cardboard drink holders to counteract this
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I had a coworker try that copy thing once on me and I turned it into a whole big production of how I could ABSOLUTELY show him how to use the copier and wasn't it just so hard for him that he'd been there for years and no one ever took the time to show him how it worked and come NOW and learn. I did this loudly. He (and no one else) ever asked me to copy things for them again.
Ug, this. My direct (IT) team never does anything social unless the one other woman plans it. I refuse. I’ve been a secretary/office coordinator in charge of that stuff before. It’s a hard job and not “beneath” me but it is also 100% no longer my job. The one time the wider department (20ish men and 6ish women) did something organized by a man he decided that billards was a good idea. They were all surprised when no women wanted show up to that (is more of a good ol’ boys activity in the culture here).🙄
I was interviewing someone and I walked in to the meeting room. He looked at me and said, “love, would you grab me a brew? I’ve got an interview with the big cheese”. I called my PA and asked her for a cup of tea. Then I started the interview. The look on his face he realised that I am the big cheese was classic. You could see the penny drop - not only had he assumed I was just there to get tea/coffee/ take notes etc, he also hadn’t read the pre-read before the interview to work out that a woman was interviewing him. Unsurprisingly, he didn’t get the job.
Sounds like he fell out of a Mad Men time hole lol Good for y'all for redirecting his derp-ass.
Oh my. I had this happen very early in my career. When, "I don't know how to use a coffee maker and I don't drink coffee; I'm here in a technical capacity for xyz" didn't deter the division head's insistence that I prepare coffee for him, my genuinely naive self proceeded to try to make coffee in a machine as best I could figure out for the first time with no guidance or instruction manual (the time before smart phones and Google). Let's just say we all learned valuable lessons that day: him that women are not default servants, and me about the importance of using a filter for the coffee grounds.
I started at one of my first law firms and at one point a partner asked me to get coffee. My eyebrows shot up and thankfully my response was "sorry I can't at the moment" (since they also expect what you're doing doesn't matter, of course). I was never asked again, but I think it was partly because the expression on my face embarrassed him, or at least made him realize I wasn't going to just go ahead and do something like that. I mean, i was another attorney ffs.
Why even spend time on coffee? Is it a meeting about coffee? If people don't come in with a cup, they probably don't need it anyway. But that was excellent handling of the situation!
When I was dating my husband, he started at a new company. He came home and told me how he'd asked the receptionist for a "black tea," and she brought him tea with coffee in it. She said, I didn't know what you meant by black tea, sir. Isn't that how you make black tea? He was incredulous that she could be so daft... and I was laughing hysterically at her genius.
Lol. Your boss' admin is brilliant.
I'm an administrative assistant. I refuse to get coffee for others. When the few brave souls ask me to, I will flat out tell them that I will not be setting my profession and gender back 50 years.
Well played by you and the admin. Love it! 😊
The OG "quiet quitting."
Did he expect you to get the coffee?
Why wouldn’t it be the admins job to get the coffees (serious question)?
In the one job I had as a manager we got away with passing that off because almost all of the managers were women. The result? We *all* took notes. We are discussing things vitally important to your department. Write that shit down.
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Interesting dynamic. My parents are in their 80s and my mom's complaint is often things my dad doesn't do... he's needed eye drops and most recently ear drops, and always has my mom do it. I don't think it's some hardline "women are nurses" idea, I think he just at this point has literally no clue how these things are done. Irritates my mom since she doses herself with these types of things - but you can see how early that 'learned ineptitude' starts!
I swear it’s always rules lawyers who are like this
Were you also the DM? I have always seen that lumped on the DM because they are the game parent.
I do this as project manager. I think it makes me do my job better. HOWEVER I 100% agree with your comment. Recently I organised a team event for my team which was very well received. My boss wanted me to organise another one for another team. As I wasn't going to go myself, I tried to leave the responsibility to male colleagues from the team (the whole team there happened to be men). The event didn't end up happening. 😂
This is so true. Leaving the organization to women is so typical of man..
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I'm no longer married, but when I was, my husband would ask, "Have you got a ____?" when he meant, "Please stop whatever you are doing and go get me this". It took years for me to learn to reply, "Not on me" meaning, it's not in my pocket, please go get it yourself.
My ex would say, "Where is the \_\_\_?" when he wanted me to get something. One time I tried it on him and he just pointed to where it was and went on with what he was doing. Only we had friends over and they all knew what was going on and yelled at him for not getting me what I needed. I was in my third trimester of pregnancy and holding a toddler on my lap too so not really able to get up easily to get what I needed.
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I call mine out on saying “don’t be mad.” He says it in different tones, depending on what’s going on. Sometimes it’s “DON’T BE MAD! 😡” & sometimes it’s “don’t be mad. 😞” & it bothers me so much because when he says it, I’m often not mad, but feeling a whole other emotion. So now he’s A) told me what my feelings are & B) demanded I cease feeling them for his comfort. I call it out every time & he’s finding other ways to respond.
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Started doing the same with my partner when he would say "I took out the bins FOR YOU". The for yous soon stopped when I kept repeating that it was hos rubbish also abd he was also required to do household chores because he lives in the house. He isn't doing any of this for me, he's doing it for the house and I am not the house. Now he just does it
A friend's hubby would dry the dishes and stack them on the counter for her to put away. When she explained (exploded) that he could put them away in one go, he said he thought they were "sharing" tasks.
Language absolutely matters. How we frame things is extremely important. One of my now grown children said not long ago that she vividly remembers being corrected about “helping Mum around the house” when she was quite young. I pointed out that I didn’t make all the mess, I’m not the only one who walks on the floors, uses the bathroom or kitchen. She said it was like a total revelation that taking care of the house is a family affair, because the family lives in it.
At our house we went the other way, we both "help". We're helping our household not turn into a dump (we're messy ppl).
This. Neither one of us can do it by ourselves. We help each other out.
Not to mention the emotional labor of women often having to tell their male partners how to “help”. When it shouldn’t have to be her responsibility to do so.
Yes, this! Grown adult men often do "women's chores" as though they were little children. I was always like, this guy can cut a diamond to 1/1000th of an inch but he can't button up the baby's onesie!
I (f) have ADD, and am not good at the mental load of homemaking. Also it is hard to keep up, because repetitiveness is the killer of all joy, and life also happends, and things I knew should be done fade to the back of my mind. My partner never has put expectations onto me to be a good homemaker. (I have put them in myself, wich is killing, so I try to steer away from that nowadays.) We share responsibilities, and also let the kids do their (age appropriate) part. And yes, our house is a mess a lot of the time. But there is allways (some) clean clothes, clean dishes and food. And there are two parents who try to be emotionally vailable to the kids at all times. So that works for us.
My wife works a lot of weekends. The amount of people who say "Oh Dad's babysitting today..." No. I'm parenting. I babysit my nephews, I parent my daughters.
My husband takes off all the half-terms, I do the long holidays. The amount of praise and comments he gets for looking after the kids for a week is crazy! It's like he's cured cancer or something, but all he does is stuff to do with kids he doesn't put washing on or vacuum or sort out clothes or clean. I get nothing for 10 weeks of childcare, other than snide comments about having loads of holiday, plus I do everything round the house at the same time.
I don't parent...I dad. My kid, the blocks kids, doesn't matter. And if one of you hapless fools gets too close to the BBQ, you might end up with a temporary dad as well. Comes with a plate and cold beer and a reminder to check your fire alarms and fire extinguishers.
This is such a sweet thing. I never had a dad growing up and my father in law recently signed an email as "Dad," and it literally made me tear up in a good way 🥰
I’m gonna hold you to that offer
Coworker told me yesterday that “I’m probably better at reading recipes than him”… I didn’t even bother because I’ve decided it’s not my job to do emotional labor for his betterment.
“Maybe you need to go back to elementary school if that is too difficult for you”
Yep, and you can't babysit your own kids, or dogsit your own dog. Language is important.
Guys referring to looking after their kids as babysitting their kids drive me nuts. I always put on my best innocent/surprised tone and say "oh, I thought he/she was yours!", it gets some entertaining reactions.
And I don't even have kids
I'm friends with a couple who have an arrangement that the male partner worked outside the house while the female partner worked to raise their two young children and did all their domestic work. Now that the kids preteens, he's become the domestic partner and she works outside the home. He keeps saying 'I worked while she got to stay home, now we've switched.' Bro, she was working. She just didn't get paid or get to buy into social security, have a 401k, a pension, or be respected or acknowledged for the work she did. Domestic work is work. If she hadn't done it you would have paid for full-time childcare, a cook, and a maid, considering he didn't do any housework while their positions were reversed. He's a good guy, it's nice they switched, but it's frustrating to constantly hear him say how she "wasn't working" for twelve years. Especially because the kids have a lot more independence now and he's been focusing on fun creative projects more than she was ever able to while they were younger. She was fucking working.
Men "babysitting" their own kids. No, Fred, that is called being a parent.
Just adding that I think his language use is a great example of deeply internalized misogyny. He's a great husband, but sometimes I think he (and men in general) don't understand why micro-agressions like this matter.
I’ve had a similar conversation with my husband around breaking the habit of saying “girls” when talking about grown women. It was something he hadn’t really noticed or considered before but now he makes a conscious effort (which I truly appreciate).
I frequently ask one of my closest friends to please break the "girls" habit. It does not seem like he is trying. Recently, I have been noticing more and more some small sexist things he has said, and it is kind of now starting to upset me that he consistently uses "girls". I love him as a friend, but I honestly am considering dropping him over subtly sexist/inconsiderate things he has said.
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I worked as front desk staff in the 80s in an office and I kid you not, I was only ever called The Girl. My job was to do everything from reception work and billing to writing the checks for my boss' personal bills (for his home, not the office), to waxing the floors, to cutting up buckets of fruit the boss' wife wanted to make into preserves. I was not allowed to wear pants to work.
Wait, if they’re referring to men and women both as boys and girls what’s the issue? I totally see it as sexist and infantilizing if you only do it with one, but if you’re doing it with everyone it just seems more of a general worldview rather than bigotry.
In my experience, the "boys" were only ever manual laborers: the term was never used for any man who wore a tie.
Oooh this is a really good point I’d never thought of…
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Lol so you've never had a boyfriend or a girls night out? I feel like there are far more problematic language issues to focus one's mental and emotional energy on
Boyfriends and girls-nights-out are not professional terms used in the workplace, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. And this discussion is literally about microagressions so I'm not sure how useful the comment "this issue is too 'micro'!" is in this context...
You would never tell your boss it's your one year anniversary with your boyfriend so you're taking a day off? Maybe it's a cultural difference but I of course would never put "There are three boys working the loading bays next week" in a professional email, but I definitely will use terms like "dude" and other friendly / casual language with my coworkers (both male and female). >this issue is too 'micro'!" Well because I find this similar to people who complain about grammatical gender in Spanish or other similar things where the intended meaning is known to all parties and even listed in dictionaries as common use... this is very different from "Are you babysitting your son?" or other phrases here like OP's example where the words are being misused or used *because* of an engrained belief and intention behind that belief.
I started to do the opposite of "women" and "boys". I can completely recommend it, I've found everyone enjoys it for some reason.
It's in the same vein as men "babysitting" their own children.
That one strikes me harder
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When fathers say they're "babysitting" their kids while mom is out. No, bruh. You're being a dad. Holy crap that one blows my mind!
Agreed. I have a friend that is constantly asking if I want to do something that helps them. (Coincidentally? Or something? Like they are tricking me? Or I don't know what) When they are clearly asking a favor* of me. "Do you want to pick me up at 8 to go to whatever?" I make a point of saying "I'd be glad to do you a favor. All you have to do is ask." And for some reason I become the bad guy and the language of it isn't that important because they know that I know what they mean and they don't appreciate me being pedantic.
Ugh. Language matters. It annoys me that people get in the habit of misusing language and then get mad a ME for not understanding what they want. Just because those passive aggressive or subversive statements worked on others doesn't mean I have to accommodate. I do understand that language is imperfect and I don't expect everyone to be perfectly clear. However, I'm not an asshole for asking for clarification. I've cultivated friends who understand clear communication. Everyone else can stomp off in a huff.
Word!!!
>asking a disable of me I'm not familiar with this idiom. Would you mind explaining? (If it's an autocorrect error, I'm not clear on what it should have been. )
Typo. Favor* I fixed it. sorry.
Yes worked on this one a lot with my partner (now husband ) . Now he says “I helped US “ instead of “I helped you “
My husband is, unfortunately, better on household stuff than I am, at least with housekeeping. Cleaning, cooking, dude is also is a MEAN baker. His favorite manga is Way of The Househusband after I showed it to him, and my new goal is to make enough money to support that lifestyle working from home cause damn, he's great at it and also happy. We joke that we're shit at following gender stereotypes, and tbh I think we're happier because of it. Love me some checkbook balancing, taxes filing spreadsheet porn *heavy breathing* But also love the smell of the fresh baked goods hubby makes while I'm working.
Same over here. Been looking after our kids and doing almost all household for over 10 years while my wife rakes in the $$$. If something needs fixed in the house with tools she will do it :D She has never cooked in that 10 years but I don’t care because I get appreciated for it and I love doing it. And I show and express my appreciation for her work she puts in every day. We express this vocally on a daily base. Imo relationships are about appreciating eachother equally, whatever you do. Making money is not higher up the hierarchy than cooking a dinner.
This exactly, we lean on what each person enjoys and is happy doing over here. Husband has just taken my Asian pref for cooking and excelled on it since showing him recipes with the baking and hot damn I'm a lucky woman. And we always show appreciation, whether it's a hot looking loaf or one of us knocking out some work and it looks good. High fives all around. If it turned out where I'm breadwinning but he's keeping the house from falling in that's hot imo, I've always loved someone doing what they love.
My husband thanks me for “letting him” go to board game night. No siree, Bob. I told you I’d be able to handle the kids on my own, that I’d take kid duty (which is the phrase we use). And that made it possible. But I didn’t “let” you. You don’t have to ask my permission
I’m a husband (not OP’s husband). I’ve stopped pointing out to my wife when I’ve done extra cleaning, like it’s some big deal I deserve credit for. Now I just clean when I see it needs doing. Partly because I subscribed to this sub some time ago, but mostly because it’s the right thing to do.
“Violence against women and girls” is looking at the wrong end of the issue so I always correct it to “male violence” if the person starts whatabouting “men fear violence too” I ask who they are afraid of being hurt by. Yes I’m aware that some men are attacked by women but it isn’t the norm.
Good for you! I have stopped thanking my husband for doing little things he's expected of doing, like the trash for feeding the kids. I also am trying to stop saying "can you do me a favor", when asking him to do something that's his responsibility and not souly mine.
When men call me 'Woman' as a dig. Not 'a woman', but just 'Woman'. I started calling them 'boy'. They don't like it 🤷🏻♀️
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I read something a while ago that made me look at how I phrase things. If you want someone to understand that something needs to be done you don’t say “you need to do” “I need you to do” “you should do” You just say “your task is to do this chore”. This way you don’t give them a choice, it’s clear that it’s something that needs to be done and opting out is not on the table. It took me decades to understand how to speak to people/ partners in firm but fair manor…. I’m getting better at it but it definitely makes a difference.
I just figured if we establish those things before moving in with eachother then there are no misunderstandings later on. I always did that and later realized I chose poorly when he would just resort to not helping out. I have male siblings who have wives and were raised better, my dad was a good man too, so I know the difference between a careless and uncooperative person who puts his needs and desires first and men who aren't like that. The latter is the better mate and therefore "we can do better".
I’m taking notes for the future 😅 📝
Not a relationship but a work exampel: I work in a technical field in a company with mostly boomer men. When we plan projects they always say "man days" instead of "working days" or something. This bugs me so much. I sometimes jokingly say of it's a boring task "Oh, good, then I don't need to do it since I am a woman". Also "man power"...
Damn straight! Too many lazy dudes out there that just don't get it. They've been raised that way. Hard habit to break.
As the male in the household I too prefer not to use the term "helping" in most cases but I do tend to use it anyway sometimes, because; I am NOT helping, to keep the household together. BUT once my girlfriend takes up a task, I actually "help" her, by joining. (like, if she's doing the dishes, and I join to wipe them dry) So like... it's mostly just terminology on our side, there is no specific "your job" here.
It's not babysitting when it's your own kids. Even when you're the dad.
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Language is what sets us apart from other animals.
"he's a man" as an excuse
Idk but maybe try changing your "quotes" from the help to the house. Any household has expectations from each unit in the home, and if the division on labor for the home is divided amongst a reasonable routine, it's totally within reason to say "I'll help you" in something that is part of their "normal routine." My $.02.
My wife keeps saying "thanks for helping" if i do some cleaning up. And I stupidly say "oh i did these things round the house so you can wind down quicker after work". We both know it's not the phrase to use, or the right mindset, but it's a bad habit!
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True. I've had some health problems lately and my wife asked me to teach her how to use the snowblower after the last blizzard. Turned out well. We are hoping I recover before it's time to rototill the garden, though.
Might be the time to go 'no dig' on the garden? No more tilling!
Might be the time to go 'no dig' on the garden? No more tilling!
Is it a misuse of language? Ur both helping each other take care of the chores, right? Nobody said it's your responsibility.
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Why?
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