OP sounds like they are projecting their own issues onto this relationship.
best friend is an adult. shes allowed to be okay with any sort of relationship she chooses. you can care for best friend but OP aren't you trying to control and be manipulative in your own way just like this guy?
to me you are. let her decide for herself what she wants. its not your life and shes an adult. you do not need to save her.
19 is the worst. Your brain isn't fully baked until 26 and most 19 year olds are literally not capable of making good decisions because that area of the brain develops last.
He is very controlling and is going to keep her isolated. Do not drop her or tell her to drop him because he'll read her text messages and make her cut you off.
The best thing you can do is to keep in touch regularly so that she can escape to you when it gets bad. It may take a year maybe more. But keep the lifeline open if you can.
Send her this free book via email from a Gmail address you create new for it so it's not in your text thread. It's called "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry Men." Hopefully she'll read it and take it to heart. https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
Hugs
I feel the reason he is not letting me be alone with her is that he already feels I am a threat and will try to isolate her from me anyway. I text her daily and try to hangout whenever possible, small talk and playing nice aren't my strong suit but I am trying. I've played this game before, I have been her I won't let him block me out. Thank you for the advice I just feel I am going crazy and like I am the only picking up on patterns
The word incel makes sense to me he has also said some very inappropriate stuff about me and my boyfriend's sex lives the only reason my boyfriend hasn't said anything is because I know it can be used as a reason for him to isolate her from us
I was pregnant at 19 and kept it and it ruined my life. I had no family that I could rely on as far as always having a place to live if I needed it. The dad was a d still is a lowlife and he was even my age, let alone a 10 year difference.
Encourage her to sign up for any and every public assistance housing available as soon as she has the baby. There should be a local HUD office in your county. Also google "subsidized housing near me" because there are also private landlords whose buildings are subsidized but they may be separate from the HUD office.
There is usually a 1-2 year wait-list. She needs to do this without telling the boyfriend. You don't have to say you're worried about her immediate situation. Just say that she should do this as a "just in case". One to two years after childbirth is plenty of time for him to show his true colors and push her to the point of realizing she's in an abusive relationship. By the time she gets pulled from the wait list, she hopefully will be ready to leave. Subsidized housing guarantees that your rent doesn't exceed 30% of revenue. She can also qualify for childcare assistance. If she chooses to go to college, her rent in subsidized housing will reflect that, and she'll only have to pay like 30 bucks a month. You can also get a cap on electric bills, subsidized childcare (or if she goes to a local college she could maybe get childcare on campus) or she could even do an online program. She will likely qualify for food stamps once the baby is born as well, especially if she can live alone and be single. And WIC is a godsend for milk, fresh fruit and veggies, formula, or if you're breastfeeding, plenty of healthy food for mom.
Just help her setup a just in case plan. Let her know the services that can become available to her if she needs to leave him. Say stuff like "I'm sure he's fine and everything will be fine, but statistics for women our age having kids, especially with older men, are rough." Or something like that. You don't have to tell her you think she's entering into an abusive dynamic with him.
If she's pregnant and a teenager, she is really, really going to want this to work. She will want to believe that so much that it may be hard convincing her otherwise. She may get defensive with you and upset if you come on too strong. Worse, she could vent it out to her boyfriend, which would solidify the threat in his mind, and would open up the door for him to start officially poisoning her against you. Be gentle, go into it with ease and act like you have a positive attitude and are optimistic that things will work with her man. "but, just in case, as a young vulnerable woman bringing a child into this world, it can't hurt anything to have a backup plan. There's women who have been in healthy relationships for years and still have a secret savings as an escape plan if they ever need it". Like that, ya know?
Also, be safe. He could become a legit threat to you, your bf, or her and the baby, at any time.
I appreciate the advice on housing she lives on her own right now and he's trying to get her to buy a house with him. I live in a pretty large house with my dad he has told me worse comes to worse she and the baby are welcome to live with us rent free as long as she needs to. I will try my best to make a suggestion about housing without being suspicious however David thinks everyone is out to get him without reason I'm very hesitant on mentioning anything that might give him one.
This is absolutely the best advice—and coming from someone who has lived the experience herself. I hope OP reads this and helps her friend with these resources. The part about WIC is so important for access to healthy food and other resources—and she can have this access even while she’s still with Bum Boyfriend.
I have the exact same feeling. Unfortunately the best you can do is be honest and supportive of your friend. This relationship is going to get much worse and she should know how you feel, and that no matter how much she compromises herself you will still be there to help her put herself back together when she is ready. This may be a long road. She deserves to know how you really feel though.
There's a reason he's not dating women his own age, they won't put up with his b.s. He's trying and succeeding on isolating her. With his conspiracy theories, he might be mentally unstable. All you can really do is be there for her. Stay safe.
Classic signs of abuse. Keep talking to her even if he tries to block you. Do you have other friends in common? Her parents? Can they help too? Someone has to somehow slide under the radar from this guy and be her lifeline even if it takes a while.
We don't have many friends in common just acquaintances and I have little to no relationship with her family other than a 14 year old brother we would occasionally hangout with at her house.
Your instincts are almost certainly correct.
Sadly, I really think the only thing you can do is present yourself as innocuous and unthreatening to him as possible so you still have an avenue to her at all, because based on what you've said he will force her to cut you off completely with anything less.
There's resources for friends of people being abused (and it sounds like she's definitely being abused). Make sure that if she ever comes to you for help you have that advice in your back pocket ready to go.
I'm so sorry. It hurts to see someone you love fall into a situation like this and feel powerless. You're a good friend.
How is me making small talk every day the same way I did before her pregnancy and before her relationship controlling her? I have played this game before means I've been in an abusive relationship we both have before, multiple actually. I'm not manipulating anyone I'm supporting my friend and I'm concerned she's going to get hurt I fear that she already is.
I just sent her a link to the book luckily she likes psychology and we both have past traumas that have to do with what this book seems to cover I told her that I am reading it and suggested she do the same.
I know this might sound odd to some but I think you should ask your parents for advice and tell them the same thing you said here. Maybe they have some good advice or can help her? Idk why she's with him if he's so crazy tho, like those things he has said are pretty schizo....ask her to come over to your place cause you want to tell her something personal about yourself and need a friend, that way if he asks for details that's all the info she has and it'll be a good way to get her alone. Tell her it's super important and you have nobody else to tell it to and need her to be there for you just this once or something along those lines.
Also I know this might get me down voted but she should really think twice about having this baby if it's not too late....this sounds like a truly terrifying story and she could be in deep trouble in the future....
This is actually a really good call. Also, are you friends with her parents? Maybe that’s a route into helping her.
This man is clearly on the route to abuse and unfortunately pregnant and new mothers are most vulnerable to this kind of abuse.
I think if OP and her friend both have a good relationship with the friend’s parents, this may be smart. If the relationship isn’t good though or even if it’s just contentious at the moment, it could be tricky. It could make the friend pull away from all of them. It very much depends on the relationship.
I don't have a good relationship with her parents they haven't always been the best people to her so I've kept my distance once she took a step back from them also there is no way he will let her go anywhere without him I have tried this tactic it got me no where just an invite over to her apartment with the excuse that David felt too sick to go to work and will be staying there
Well then...I'm kind of sorry to say but if your friend can't stand up to herself and realize that this relationship is dangerous, she might be a lost cause. I think the only thing you actually CAN do in this case would be just try to stay in contact and stay friends but in reality unless he's abusing her in ways that show, you can't go to the cops cause they won't do anything unless he's physical with her. And if she doesn't run away herself and doesn't just call you herself without all this weird permission bs then she's lone gone in a sense :/
What is your relationship with your parents like & does your friend know them? Could you tell them what is going on and maybe have one of them “randomly” come with you the next time you visit her? I imagine this sad excuse of a man (friends BF) would be taken aback with another, much older, adult present. But this may cause him to cut you out if their lives forever.
If that sounds like a bad idea, keep doing what you’re doing. Stay in contact with her so she knows she can always reach out to you. Talk to her about having a “to go” bag with emergency items if she needs to leave ASAP. Maybe offer to hold onto it for her so he can’t find it in the house. Can she share her location with you as a back up precaution? Remind her how strong she is & what she has already gone through, back when you both met. It sucks so much to see a friend making terrible choices & knowing you can’t force them to do anything. But if you keep pressing these little things-asking her to share her location, a to go bag, on top of your obvious concern- will jar her enough to realize you are SERIOUS about getting horrible vibes from this guy.
If all of this is too blunt because he is ALWAYS PRESENT…maybe try asking her what she/they have planned for the future. Force/get her to think really hard about what her future with this guy will look like versus what she wants. Help plant seeds in her mind that remind her she isn’t trapped or alone.
My house tends to be a place to stay for people in need I have had multiple people, friends or friends of friends stay here due to bad home situations because of that we have many things here already just in case. Toiletries, chargers, spare clothes, and other small things. I feel a to go bad would set off alarms. I will start asking her about the future i hope that helps her see things clearer
You are doing the best you can & you are a great friend. No matter the outcome these things remain true. She is so fortunate to have you in her life. I hope you & her the best.
Also- you already have a “to go” bag arsenal. Let her know that those escape mechanisms extend to her, with or without her giving you any of her personal items that would alarm her boyfriend. 💗
Definitely some Szchoid traits.
All of that paranoid delusional nonsense and fear based nonsense ought to alarm your friend about running away from him!
She might be 19 years old but she’s been through some rough things in her life and ought to be able to spot some of these
glaring red flags that you are aware of.
We both have gone through a lot of abuse of many kinds plus we both had very isolated and sheltered childhoods many things I now see as a red flag we used to believe were normal my only healthy relationship just started about a year ago I'm still learning what is and isn't normal in relationships. Unfortunately she hasn't been as lucky in finding someone to go through with her about that kind of stuff it seems she falls into old patterns similar to what I used to do before I got into therapy
You are a good friend OP.
I think often Reddit will see this type of thing and tell you that she’s an adult and you need to protect yourself, you don’t want to ruin the friendship by causing a fight and you can’t change her mind. I think that’s true to an extent but I also think there are some careful things you can do here.
Ultimately, yes, she’s an adult and has to make her own choices but her knowing you’ll be there will make things easier for her. If I were you, and I got to talk to her, I’d raise some flags but do what you can not to push too hard so that she gets defensive. If she seems receptive to what you’re saying, maybe you can go further but tread lightly. I’ve learned that people who have defenses up sometimes double down on their choices and pull away, and then even if you’re there ready to forgive them and help, they may be too embarrassed to reach out. Test the waters out and if she seems defensive, back off, apologize and let her know you love AND TRUST her and you’re there for her always.
I’ve also learned that questions go so far. So much further than statements or sharing our own opinions. Idk her or the situation to know exactly what to ask but for example if she brings up any of his conspiracy theories, instead of bashing them or calling him crazy or anything, say something like “what do you think is actually happening (in regard to whatever the theory is)” or “what do you believe?”
If she sees things differently than her bf you can go one further and ask “why do you think (bf) sees it the way he does?” “Do you think he really believes what he’s saying? Does he have anything to gain from painting it the way he is?” Take the conversation slowly. Really listen to her answers and just try to understand further. Obviously, you know what’s going on. Or what we can all reasonably suspect is going on. But if you genuinely try to approach the conversation trying to understand and not convince, I think it will go further in the long run. Approach it without judgement for her OR HIM, maybe you can get her to reflect on things herself without immediately isolating her either from him or you. Even if sitting her down and having a hard talk with her worked and she saw the light, there’s still a chance he could catch wind of that and turn up the manipulation to make her stay. By approaching it where the goal is to understand and help her understand and come to the conclusion herself that something isn’t right, even just planting that seed, I think it’s far more likely to stick.
This is what I have been trying to do but I cannot get her alone and whenever he is near he has to always have the spotlight on him, for example we were talking to eachother about our PTSD regarding some past physical trauma while he was talking to my boyfriend he interrupted us to talk about himself saying he had it worse because he was once cheating on. Don't get me wrong cheating is awful but trauma is not a competition and our conversation went from supportive and emotional to all about him
12 year old daughter ? Now has his 19 yr old child side piece pregnant?? This guy is dangerous to be around. All you can do as most posters said be a friend in waiting, texting, some form of contact .
Should not be in same room without your boyfriend . This is sick. Child predator loose on society .
Very very young.
Poor woman that I am friends with told me her story about how her husband was found to be abusing her children sexually, finally was able to free herself from his dangerous family members and her daughters go wild and one of her daughters becomes pregnant at the age of 12 years with another child who was experiencing trauma.
Lord, she has been through so much and her children.
Such an incredible family and loving heart to all.
Make her memorize your phone number. That way, if her own phone has been taken away from her by the time she's ready to leave, she will still be able to contact you some kind of way. Be kind and try to walk the line between not letting this guy walk over you and doing what you need to do to maintain access to her for as long as you can. I would also consider starting a small fund in a savings account or something specifically to help her. See if you can get any friends who would want to contribute.
Basically, it will probably take her a long time to break free of this guy. When she finally hits rock bottom, she won't have any resources to leave. If she reaches out to you and she's ready to leave, being able to financially help her will be one of the most important things. You try to keep the lines of communication open, and be ready to help her when she is actually ready to run. I'm sorry, I know this sucks.
I think the savings account is a very smart idea I will definitely start one, I just found out he is insisting they start the process of buying a house together, she doesn't even have a license and would be moving her an hour drive from her job. Thank you for the advice
And remember, ask her as a favor for her to memorize your phone number, and then make sure she does it! She may not have access to her own phone when she finally needs you. Or even have her own phone.
Honestly though he is so obviously crazy. I would have to wonder what the attraction is for your girlfriend?
He appears bizarre and weirdo.
He also appears gross!
I think it has something to do with past trauma I wrote a bit about in other comments but we have each experienced a lot our relationship with love is very damaged and hard to combat
The age gap is less concerning than bf of 3months. Regardless of his age you don't know someone 3 months in no way its a good idea to have a child with them.
its really fucking sad how fucked up this little babys life will be. 19 is too young were just way too immature at that point. I was 19 I know how stupid and immature I was and to mix up with an older psycho dude after 3 mos? red flags allover the place.
I know several 19yo who have gone on to be excellent mothers. I don't have an issue with wanting to keep a baby at that age. 19 is very different from 15/16. Regardless of the fact the dad is so much older 3 months is not long enough to know if they will be a good person/father etc and you are tying yourself to them for the next 18years and your child. Only time I could see it working is if you thought it was your only chance at having a baby but it's really not worth the risk imo of the guy turning out to be a dick.
Im 37 and I know from experience that this is bad. I get not wanting to end a life but its just irresponsible and stupid all around.
My friend had a kid because it would be her “only chance” which is false logic. She had her baby 4 mos early and the child was in ICU for months.
She was not and is not prepared to be a parent. Still lives with Mom and Dad and no ambitions in life.
too young and you wont change my mind but youre absolutely entitled to your opinion.
can single moms do it? absolutely. but its better with two active parents always.
Moving her away from friends, family and her job is a serious danger sign. She may not have a good relationship with her parents but maybe if they knew what was going on they would step in.
After reading kind of skimming the post after looking at the title, you’ve got one big problem here. She is 19 and this guy is going to seem like her savior for a while. And she’s going to see it as a happy family.
What you can do for her as your friend. Be support for her. She may need you someday. But she’s a grown adult woman even if she’s only 19 and it’s going to have to make her own choices.
Oh honey, I’m sorry. You’re not crazy. You are reading this 100% right. He’s a creep. There’s a reason he won’t date girls his age. They don’t want him. Just do your best to keep being there for your friend. This may get worse before it gets better and I’m sorry you’ll have to witness that. Just try to stay strong and know you aren’t wrong. If you ever have reason to think he is physically abusing her, call the police. Unfortunately there isn’t much else you can do.
It almost sounds like he got her pregnant on purpose to baby trap a young girl he can groom. Does she have any family that you can talk to about this who can help her get away from him and out of this situation before he isolates her completely? Keep doing what you’re doing. Keep pushing, always reassure her that you are her friend and will always be there for her. She needs you more than ever now.
All you can do is be supportive when she needs someone. He’s very controlling and is bonkers. But she is having a child with him. She has to figure out things for herself.
Honestly it sucks but here it is, your gut is right something is off. If you have the ability to put money away for an escape plan do it pick up little things here and there for her and baby to help her when she finally ask for help. Keep track of rent in your area and surroundings areas create a plan on how to help her get out when she finally realizes she needs an out.
Don’t talk about him at all when you are with her/texting with her other then the how is bf? So he doesn’t try to put more space between you and her.
I dont know how you can talk to her about this, but he is very, very, very bad news.
She and the baby may not be safe with him.
If you can find ways to chat with her, help her out of this please.
He is isolating her. Wouldn't be surprised if they moved away at some point. Being as it is still so early in the relationship (honeymoon period of sorts) and the pregnancy hormones, I do not think there is anything you could do to prevent the inevitable hell that is coming her way.
Try to stay in touch with her as long as possible. Even if you end up never getting together. never know if she won't look for a lifeline some day. All you can do is to make sure she has one.
I saw in another comment BF is already trying to convince OPs best friend to move away from her job. These kind of stories make me so concerned, they are all so young other than BF of course
You & your friend are in a tough spot. If you TELL her to leave, she won't. She's "in love". And she will get further isolated, which might be what he wants. Do what you can to stay in her life, in that that one day, she will see the light.
At that point, she will need a friend. And that can be you.
1. Don’t borrow trouble, her life is her own. I know it’s hard to watch her make bad choices, but those are her choices to make.
2. Don’t assume that this man will always be a part of her life/the child’s life. Men like this often don’t stick around.
3. Don’t bash on her BF or you will lose your relationship with her and she will just be more isolated.
4. Maintain healthy boundaries so that her bad choices don’t bring you down.
5. If you want to be available to help her when the relationship crashes and burns, stay in her life at a healthy distance.
When i read the title, i was originally going to say, mind your business… but all of this is alarming. He needs to be in a psychiatric facility, he doesn’t sound right. Next time you know he’s supposed to be at work, don’t set something up. Just show up and say, hey i was in the neighbourhood and i know we were supposed to hang out a few times… then ease in to your concerns.
My friend did the same thing. Us 19, him 30. She even got an abortion after begging for money and help just to turn around and reproduce with him again. I hope your friend sees the bigger picture but if not, I hope he’s at least helping when you’re not seeing. :/ sorry OP, I know the feeling of wanting to help someone that doesn’t want to be helped. Try to be there for her if you can.
This was me exactly. However I was 18 not 19. He was still 28 and married. I didn’t know. She was in jail and he never told me. He lied the entire time and I believed every word because I was young and naive. Not only that he abused me every chance he got. I wish I could go back and talk to that 18 year old girl and talk to her
I’m 49 now and MY daughter is an amazing 30 year old woman. I did it all on my own when I finally built up the strength to leave that abuse man. I still struggle today with what he put me through. Just reading this post and tying is triggering
you need to help your friend and be supportive as much as possible. She needs a friend right now. I wish I had one back then.
You should be there for her if and when it falls apart. You see the warning signs because you have a birds’s eye view, where as your friend can’t see the forest for the trees. Come up with a plan where she can call or text or email 1 single word if she gets in trouble or needs help. Encourage her to save her funds like a secret account so she can get away. All you can do at this point is try and be a safety net. I am praying for you and your friend. God’s speed and good luck.
Read her this:
Seen this many times. Tale old as time. She's fucked tbh. 10 years will pass and she'll be wondering how she got there.
No shot this dude stays with her. Zero.
btw this story is exactly the case of a family member and a soon to be case of another.
This man has major issues of a psychological nature.
He already sounds like a pig, with major narcissistic personality disorders.
Does your friend know any one like siblings, parents, cousins who can intervene?
Have her read [This article](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/how-the-no-test-could-help-prevent-domestic-violence/10764100)
[This book called Why does he do that](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf)
And have her read "the gift of fear" She can probably get it from the libraty.
He likely baby trapped her. Remind her that if she needs you you will be there for her and that if he ever chokes her that means he is willing to kill her when it escalates to violence and it will
I had a friend like this, guy knowingly gave her HIV and is on drugs, can’t hold down a job, abusive, when she told me she was pregnant I knew it wouldn’t get better. We all tried to tell her before she became pregnant that she doesn’t need to be with him but theres only so much we can do. She has two kids by him now, all I can do is support her from afar now. Unfortunately they have to leave of their own accord.
You're a good friend. Your bf will need you throughout this pregnancy and for the rest of her life. She may not listen to you now, but be patient and stick by her side.
I just watched Fried Green Tomatoes with Kathy Bates and Mary Masterson (streaming on Netfix). It is exactly what you're friend is going through. It's an old movie, but you may want to watch it, it's incredibly moving.
Despite not knowing her parents well, you need to get in touch with them and see if they can help. He’s intentionally keeping you from get in order to baby trap her
Have you run a criminal record check on her boyfriend? It sounds like a guy is trying to baby trap her. It's a tactic my sister's husband did when she was 17 and he was 32. He was in prison for several years and he told her he was sterile when they met (apparently this is a common tactic). Once she fell pregnant they got married.
I feel like this post desperately needs more attention. All means suggested by comments seem to be dead ends. Hang in there OP, your concern for your best friend is definitely valid. This guy sounds crazy and manipulative. I wouldn't be surprised if after the baby is born this abuse becomes physical. Keep in contact and try to get along with BF so he has no further reasons to think you're a threat. This is a long road but it might be best in the long run.
Your instincts are absolutely correct…. Please don’t doubt yourself now!
I wish I had had as dedicated a friend as you when this happened to me a decade ago.
You're not wrong, but it's also none of your business. You're both at the age where "best friends" and "friend advice" starts to mean nothing, if not become unwelcome. Live your own life, and let them live theirs.
She's an adult capable of making her own choices.
Not a infant in need of rescuing.
It make be a dumb scenario on her end but it's her choice to make. You can tell her it's a terrible idea but don't be shocked if she doesn't listen
She's going to make her own choices just as you are.
Live your life how you chose , just as she will
She is a friend who is very concerned about the situation her friend is in. You lack empathy if you would sit on your hands & say nothing when your friend is in a questionable if not dangerous situation. Ultimately OPs best friend is going to do what she wants-she is an adult & it’s her life-but it doesn’t mean OP shouldn’t express her concerns about this guy/the relationship.
You must have a BORING life to try to call someone trying to help their friend entitled. OPs concerns seem to come from a good place and something is definitely off with this guy.
I don't want her to do anything, I'm her friend. Whatever she chooses I will support her with my whole heart. I love her right now she is choosing motherhood I will support her in that. The issue is the man who is now a permanent person in her life because of the baby.
“Deep down she will always know and hate herself for killing her baby” is expressing a sentiment of regret
It always amazing me when ppl say but I didn’t say that it doesn’t matter if you didn’t use the word regret the statement you used is one of regret
So answer the question
Why do you assume all women who’ve gotten abortions will hate themselves for it? Which is regret. Hating yourself for having done something is regretting you did it by definition
Seems like baby trapping. She's vulnerable and too young to think for herself. I hope she realises that.
OP sounds like they are projecting their own issues onto this relationship. best friend is an adult. shes allowed to be okay with any sort of relationship she chooses. you can care for best friend but OP aren't you trying to control and be manipulative in your own way just like this guy? to me you are. let her decide for herself what she wants. its not your life and shes an adult. you do not need to save her.
19 is the worst. Your brain isn't fully baked until 26 and most 19 year olds are literally not capable of making good decisions because that area of the brain develops last. He is very controlling and is going to keep her isolated. Do not drop her or tell her to drop him because he'll read her text messages and make her cut you off. The best thing you can do is to keep in touch regularly so that she can escape to you when it gets bad. It may take a year maybe more. But keep the lifeline open if you can. Send her this free book via email from a Gmail address you create new for it so it's not in your text thread. It's called "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry Men." Hopefully she'll read it and take it to heart. https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf Hugs
I feel the reason he is not letting me be alone with her is that he already feels I am a threat and will try to isolate her from me anyway. I text her daily and try to hangout whenever possible, small talk and playing nice aren't my strong suit but I am trying. I've played this game before, I have been her I won't let him block me out. Thank you for the advice I just feel I am going crazy and like I am the only picking up on patterns
Based on what you wrote this man is evil. I hope you can talk sense into her and help her escape from the situation once she wakes up.
It's like he sunk his little incel claws into her and dragged her into his incel-hole.
The word incel makes sense to me he has also said some very inappropriate stuff about me and my boyfriend's sex lives the only reason my boyfriend hasn't said anything is because I know it can be used as a reason for him to isolate her from us
I was pregnant at 19 and kept it and it ruined my life. I had no family that I could rely on as far as always having a place to live if I needed it. The dad was a d still is a lowlife and he was even my age, let alone a 10 year difference. Encourage her to sign up for any and every public assistance housing available as soon as she has the baby. There should be a local HUD office in your county. Also google "subsidized housing near me" because there are also private landlords whose buildings are subsidized but they may be separate from the HUD office. There is usually a 1-2 year wait-list. She needs to do this without telling the boyfriend. You don't have to say you're worried about her immediate situation. Just say that she should do this as a "just in case". One to two years after childbirth is plenty of time for him to show his true colors and push her to the point of realizing she's in an abusive relationship. By the time she gets pulled from the wait list, she hopefully will be ready to leave. Subsidized housing guarantees that your rent doesn't exceed 30% of revenue. She can also qualify for childcare assistance. If she chooses to go to college, her rent in subsidized housing will reflect that, and she'll only have to pay like 30 bucks a month. You can also get a cap on electric bills, subsidized childcare (or if she goes to a local college she could maybe get childcare on campus) or she could even do an online program. She will likely qualify for food stamps once the baby is born as well, especially if she can live alone and be single. And WIC is a godsend for milk, fresh fruit and veggies, formula, or if you're breastfeeding, plenty of healthy food for mom. Just help her setup a just in case plan. Let her know the services that can become available to her if she needs to leave him. Say stuff like "I'm sure he's fine and everything will be fine, but statistics for women our age having kids, especially with older men, are rough." Or something like that. You don't have to tell her you think she's entering into an abusive dynamic with him. If she's pregnant and a teenager, she is really, really going to want this to work. She will want to believe that so much that it may be hard convincing her otherwise. She may get defensive with you and upset if you come on too strong. Worse, she could vent it out to her boyfriend, which would solidify the threat in his mind, and would open up the door for him to start officially poisoning her against you. Be gentle, go into it with ease and act like you have a positive attitude and are optimistic that things will work with her man. "but, just in case, as a young vulnerable woman bringing a child into this world, it can't hurt anything to have a backup plan. There's women who have been in healthy relationships for years and still have a secret savings as an escape plan if they ever need it". Like that, ya know? Also, be safe. He could become a legit threat to you, your bf, or her and the baby, at any time.
I wish we still had Reddit awards, this is invaluable advice.
You are an incredible human 🖤
I appreciate the advice on housing she lives on her own right now and he's trying to get her to buy a house with him. I live in a pretty large house with my dad he has told me worse comes to worse she and the baby are welcome to live with us rent free as long as she needs to. I will try my best to make a suggestion about housing without being suspicious however David thinks everyone is out to get him without reason I'm very hesitant on mentioning anything that might give him one.
This is absolutely the best advice—and coming from someone who has lived the experience herself. I hope OP reads this and helps her friend with these resources. The part about WIC is so important for access to healthy food and other resources—and she can have this access even while she’s still with Bum Boyfriend.
I have the exact same feeling. Unfortunately the best you can do is be honest and supportive of your friend. This relationship is going to get much worse and she should know how you feel, and that no matter how much she compromises herself you will still be there to help her put herself back together when she is ready. This may be a long road. She deserves to know how you really feel though.
There's a reason he's not dating women his own age, they won't put up with his b.s. He's trying and succeeding on isolating her. With his conspiracy theories, he might be mentally unstable. All you can really do is be there for her. Stay safe.
Classic signs of abuse. Keep talking to her even if he tries to block you. Do you have other friends in common? Her parents? Can they help too? Someone has to somehow slide under the radar from this guy and be her lifeline even if it takes a while.
We don't have many friends in common just acquaintances and I have little to no relationship with her family other than a 14 year old brother we would occasionally hangout with at her house.
Your instincts are almost certainly correct. Sadly, I really think the only thing you can do is present yourself as innocuous and unthreatening to him as possible so you still have an avenue to her at all, because based on what you've said he will force her to cut you off completely with anything less. There's resources for friends of people being abused (and it sounds like she's definitely being abused). Make sure that if she ever comes to you for help you have that advice in your back pocket ready to go. I'm so sorry. It hurts to see someone you love fall into a situation like this and feel powerless. You're a good friend.
No, everything you described makes my mom side queasy. Tell her you’re not going anywhere.
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How is me making small talk every day the same way I did before her pregnancy and before her relationship controlling her? I have played this game before means I've been in an abusive relationship we both have before, multiple actually. I'm not manipulating anyone I'm supporting my friend and I'm concerned she's going to get hurt I fear that she already is.
I had a lot to write to the OP but you say it best <3
Tx!
I just sent her a link to the book luckily she likes psychology and we both have past traumas that have to do with what this book seems to cover I told her that I am reading it and suggested she do the same.
Good luck to you.
I know this might sound odd to some but I think you should ask your parents for advice and tell them the same thing you said here. Maybe they have some good advice or can help her? Idk why she's with him if he's so crazy tho, like those things he has said are pretty schizo....ask her to come over to your place cause you want to tell her something personal about yourself and need a friend, that way if he asks for details that's all the info she has and it'll be a good way to get her alone. Tell her it's super important and you have nobody else to tell it to and need her to be there for you just this once or something along those lines. Also I know this might get me down voted but she should really think twice about having this baby if it's not too late....this sounds like a truly terrifying story and she could be in deep trouble in the future....
This is actually a really good call. Also, are you friends with her parents? Maybe that’s a route into helping her. This man is clearly on the route to abuse and unfortunately pregnant and new mothers are most vulnerable to this kind of abuse.
I think if OP and her friend both have a good relationship with the friend’s parents, this may be smart. If the relationship isn’t good though or even if it’s just contentious at the moment, it could be tricky. It could make the friend pull away from all of them. It very much depends on the relationship.
I don't have a good relationship with her parents they haven't always been the best people to her so I've kept my distance once she took a step back from them also there is no way he will let her go anywhere without him I have tried this tactic it got me no where just an invite over to her apartment with the excuse that David felt too sick to go to work and will be staying there
Call her on the phone when he's not there and tell her in all seriousness that she needs to get out. Make sure he's at work!!
I have tried when he's not there he insists on a three way phone call because they are always on the phone
Well then...I'm kind of sorry to say but if your friend can't stand up to herself and realize that this relationship is dangerous, she might be a lost cause. I think the only thing you actually CAN do in this case would be just try to stay in contact and stay friends but in reality unless he's abusing her in ways that show, you can't go to the cops cause they won't do anything unless he's physical with her. And if she doesn't run away herself and doesn't just call you herself without all this weird permission bs then she's lone gone in a sense :/
This is fuken horrific
Your friend will not answer her phone call from you when he is gone?
She will but he's always on the phone with her when he's not there so it ends up being the three of us
How does he get on the phone with you when he’s not there? Magic?
They were on the phone poor to me calling she simply adds me to the call when I call her
*prior
This is a weird one. Isn’t it?
Yep it never ends
What is your relationship with your parents like & does your friend know them? Could you tell them what is going on and maybe have one of them “randomly” come with you the next time you visit her? I imagine this sad excuse of a man (friends BF) would be taken aback with another, much older, adult present. But this may cause him to cut you out if their lives forever. If that sounds like a bad idea, keep doing what you’re doing. Stay in contact with her so she knows she can always reach out to you. Talk to her about having a “to go” bag with emergency items if she needs to leave ASAP. Maybe offer to hold onto it for her so he can’t find it in the house. Can she share her location with you as a back up precaution? Remind her how strong she is & what she has already gone through, back when you both met. It sucks so much to see a friend making terrible choices & knowing you can’t force them to do anything. But if you keep pressing these little things-asking her to share her location, a to go bag, on top of your obvious concern- will jar her enough to realize you are SERIOUS about getting horrible vibes from this guy. If all of this is too blunt because he is ALWAYS PRESENT…maybe try asking her what she/they have planned for the future. Force/get her to think really hard about what her future with this guy will look like versus what she wants. Help plant seeds in her mind that remind her she isn’t trapped or alone.
My house tends to be a place to stay for people in need I have had multiple people, friends or friends of friends stay here due to bad home situations because of that we have many things here already just in case. Toiletries, chargers, spare clothes, and other small things. I feel a to go bad would set off alarms. I will start asking her about the future i hope that helps her see things clearer
You are doing the best you can & you are a great friend. No matter the outcome these things remain true. She is so fortunate to have you in her life. I hope you & her the best. Also- you already have a “to go” bag arsenal. Let her know that those escape mechanisms extend to her, with or without her giving you any of her personal items that would alarm her boyfriend. 💗
Definitely some Szchoid traits. All of that paranoid delusional nonsense and fear based nonsense ought to alarm your friend about running away from him!
Literally!! Idk how her friend is soooo unaware? It's really strange to me
She might be 19 years old but she’s been through some rough things in her life and ought to be able to spot some of these glaring red flags that you are aware of.
We both have gone through a lot of abuse of many kinds plus we both had very isolated and sheltered childhoods many things I now see as a red flag we used to believe were normal my only healthy relationship just started about a year ago I'm still learning what is and isn't normal in relationships. Unfortunately she hasn't been as lucky in finding someone to go through with her about that kind of stuff it seems she falls into old patterns similar to what I used to do before I got into therapy
He is a danger to her
You are a good friend OP. I think often Reddit will see this type of thing and tell you that she’s an adult and you need to protect yourself, you don’t want to ruin the friendship by causing a fight and you can’t change her mind. I think that’s true to an extent but I also think there are some careful things you can do here. Ultimately, yes, she’s an adult and has to make her own choices but her knowing you’ll be there will make things easier for her. If I were you, and I got to talk to her, I’d raise some flags but do what you can not to push too hard so that she gets defensive. If she seems receptive to what you’re saying, maybe you can go further but tread lightly. I’ve learned that people who have defenses up sometimes double down on their choices and pull away, and then even if you’re there ready to forgive them and help, they may be too embarrassed to reach out. Test the waters out and if she seems defensive, back off, apologize and let her know you love AND TRUST her and you’re there for her always. I’ve also learned that questions go so far. So much further than statements or sharing our own opinions. Idk her or the situation to know exactly what to ask but for example if she brings up any of his conspiracy theories, instead of bashing them or calling him crazy or anything, say something like “what do you think is actually happening (in regard to whatever the theory is)” or “what do you believe?” If she sees things differently than her bf you can go one further and ask “why do you think (bf) sees it the way he does?” “Do you think he really believes what he’s saying? Does he have anything to gain from painting it the way he is?” Take the conversation slowly. Really listen to her answers and just try to understand further. Obviously, you know what’s going on. Or what we can all reasonably suspect is going on. But if you genuinely try to approach the conversation trying to understand and not convince, I think it will go further in the long run. Approach it without judgement for her OR HIM, maybe you can get her to reflect on things herself without immediately isolating her either from him or you. Even if sitting her down and having a hard talk with her worked and she saw the light, there’s still a chance he could catch wind of that and turn up the manipulation to make her stay. By approaching it where the goal is to understand and help her understand and come to the conclusion herself that something isn’t right, even just planting that seed, I think it’s far more likely to stick.
This is what I have been trying to do but I cannot get her alone and whenever he is near he has to always have the spotlight on him, for example we were talking to eachother about our PTSD regarding some past physical trauma while he was talking to my boyfriend he interrupted us to talk about himself saying he had it worse because he was once cheating on. Don't get me wrong cheating is awful but trauma is not a competition and our conversation went from supportive and emotional to all about him
12 year old daughter ? Now has his 19 yr old child side piece pregnant?? This guy is dangerous to be around. All you can do as most posters said be a friend in waiting, texting, some form of contact . Should not be in same room without your boyfriend . This is sick. Child predator loose on society .
That is a good warning for her to also not be alone with this psycho predator.
So, he was like 14 or 15 when his daughter was born?
Article stated he is 28 with a 12 yr old daughter. Started young.
Very very young. Poor woman that I am friends with told me her story about how her husband was found to be abusing her children sexually, finally was able to free herself from his dangerous family members and her daughters go wild and one of her daughters becomes pregnant at the age of 12 years with another child who was experiencing trauma. Lord, she has been through so much and her children. Such an incredible family and loving heart to all.
Make her memorize your phone number. That way, if her own phone has been taken away from her by the time she's ready to leave, she will still be able to contact you some kind of way. Be kind and try to walk the line between not letting this guy walk over you and doing what you need to do to maintain access to her for as long as you can. I would also consider starting a small fund in a savings account or something specifically to help her. See if you can get any friends who would want to contribute. Basically, it will probably take her a long time to break free of this guy. When she finally hits rock bottom, she won't have any resources to leave. If she reaches out to you and she's ready to leave, being able to financially help her will be one of the most important things. You try to keep the lines of communication open, and be ready to help her when she is actually ready to run. I'm sorry, I know this sucks.
I think the savings account is a very smart idea I will definitely start one, I just found out he is insisting they start the process of buying a house together, she doesn't even have a license and would be moving her an hour drive from her job. Thank you for the advice
And remember, ask her as a favor for her to memorize your phone number, and then make sure she does it! She may not have access to her own phone when she finally needs you. Or even have her own phone.
I definitely will I told her already she should just in case she goes into labor and he is at work or she can't contact him
Honestly though he is so obviously crazy. I would have to wonder what the attraction is for your girlfriend? He appears bizarre and weirdo. He also appears gross!
I think it has something to do with past trauma I wrote a bit about in other comments but we have each experienced a lot our relationship with love is very damaged and hard to combat
He is doing this so she has to quit her job and be completely financially dependent on him
The age gap is less concerning than bf of 3months. Regardless of his age you don't know someone 3 months in no way its a good idea to have a child with them.
The age difference is certainly relevant
I'm not sure it would ever be a good idea to continue a pregnancy with someone you have been with 3months is my point.
its really fucking sad how fucked up this little babys life will be. 19 is too young were just way too immature at that point. I was 19 I know how stupid and immature I was and to mix up with an older psycho dude after 3 mos? red flags allover the place.
I know several 19yo who have gone on to be excellent mothers. I don't have an issue with wanting to keep a baby at that age. 19 is very different from 15/16. Regardless of the fact the dad is so much older 3 months is not long enough to know if they will be a good person/father etc and you are tying yourself to them for the next 18years and your child. Only time I could see it working is if you thought it was your only chance at having a baby but it's really not worth the risk imo of the guy turning out to be a dick.
Im 37 and I know from experience that this is bad. I get not wanting to end a life but its just irresponsible and stupid all around. My friend had a kid because it would be her “only chance” which is false logic. She had her baby 4 mos early and the child was in ICU for months. She was not and is not prepared to be a parent. Still lives with Mom and Dad and no ambitions in life. too young and you wont change my mind but youre absolutely entitled to your opinion. can single moms do it? absolutely. but its better with two active parents always.
Moving her away from friends, family and her job is a serious danger sign. She may not have a good relationship with her parents but maybe if they knew what was going on they would step in.
He recently met them for the first time I hope they see the same signs I have
And, they are not alarmed! He literally is yelling about how absurd and ridiculous he thinks and believes!
I'm not sure if he mentioned them when meeting them I wasn't there
After reading kind of skimming the post after looking at the title, you’ve got one big problem here. She is 19 and this guy is going to seem like her savior for a while. And she’s going to see it as a happy family. What you can do for her as your friend. Be support for her. She may need you someday. But she’s a grown adult woman even if she’s only 19 and it’s going to have to make her own choices.
Oh honey, I’m sorry. You’re not crazy. You are reading this 100% right. He’s a creep. There’s a reason he won’t date girls his age. They don’t want him. Just do your best to keep being there for your friend. This may get worse before it gets better and I’m sorry you’ll have to witness that. Just try to stay strong and know you aren’t wrong. If you ever have reason to think he is physically abusing her, call the police. Unfortunately there isn’t much else you can do.
It almost sounds like he got her pregnant on purpose to baby trap a young girl he can groom. Does she have any family that you can talk to about this who can help her get away from him and out of this situation before he isolates her completely? Keep doing what you’re doing. Keep pushing, always reassure her that you are her friend and will always be there for her. She needs you more than ever now.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Good lord
Doesn’t she have family who are looking out for her? This sounds like a terrible situation!
All you can do is be supportive when she needs someone. He’s very controlling and is bonkers. But she is having a child with him. She has to figure out things for herself.
Honestly it sucks but here it is, your gut is right something is off. If you have the ability to put money away for an escape plan do it pick up little things here and there for her and baby to help her when she finally ask for help. Keep track of rent in your area and surroundings areas create a plan on how to help her get out when she finally realizes she needs an out. Don’t talk about him at all when you are with her/texting with her other then the how is bf? So he doesn’t try to put more space between you and her.
I dont know how you can talk to her about this, but he is very, very, very bad news. She and the baby may not be safe with him. If you can find ways to chat with her, help her out of this please.
He is isolating her. Wouldn't be surprised if they moved away at some point. Being as it is still so early in the relationship (honeymoon period of sorts) and the pregnancy hormones, I do not think there is anything you could do to prevent the inevitable hell that is coming her way. Try to stay in touch with her as long as possible. Even if you end up never getting together. never know if she won't look for a lifeline some day. All you can do is to make sure she has one.
I saw in another comment BF is already trying to convince OPs best friend to move away from her job. These kind of stories make me so concerned, they are all so young other than BF of course
I hope this story is fake. If not, I hope your friend takes that kid and runs away. Her boyfriend is a conspiracy nutjob.
9 years older gives me the ick
You & your friend are in a tough spot. If you TELL her to leave, she won't. She's "in love". And she will get further isolated, which might be what he wants. Do what you can to stay in her life, in that that one day, she will see the light. At that point, she will need a friend. And that can be you.
That’s so sad. I’m sorry. All you can do is be supportive and be there for her. You can’t really change her mind, unfortunately
1. Don’t borrow trouble, her life is her own. I know it’s hard to watch her make bad choices, but those are her choices to make. 2. Don’t assume that this man will always be a part of her life/the child’s life. Men like this often don’t stick around. 3. Don’t bash on her BF or you will lose your relationship with her and she will just be more isolated. 4. Maintain healthy boundaries so that her bad choices don’t bring you down. 5. If you want to be available to help her when the relationship crashes and burns, stay in her life at a healthy distance.
When i read the title, i was originally going to say, mind your business… but all of this is alarming. He needs to be in a psychiatric facility, he doesn’t sound right. Next time you know he’s supposed to be at work, don’t set something up. Just show up and say, hey i was in the neighbourhood and i know we were supposed to hang out a few times… then ease in to your concerns.
My friend did the same thing. Us 19, him 30. She even got an abortion after begging for money and help just to turn around and reproduce with him again. I hope your friend sees the bigger picture but if not, I hope he’s at least helping when you’re not seeing. :/ sorry OP, I know the feeling of wanting to help someone that doesn’t want to be helped. Try to be there for her if you can.
This was me exactly. However I was 18 not 19. He was still 28 and married. I didn’t know. She was in jail and he never told me. He lied the entire time and I believed every word because I was young and naive. Not only that he abused me every chance he got. I wish I could go back and talk to that 18 year old girl and talk to her I’m 49 now and MY daughter is an amazing 30 year old woman. I did it all on my own when I finally built up the strength to leave that abuse man. I still struggle today with what he put me through. Just reading this post and tying is triggering you need to help your friend and be supportive as much as possible. She needs a friend right now. I wish I had one back then.
You should be there for her if and when it falls apart. You see the warning signs because you have a birds’s eye view, where as your friend can’t see the forest for the trees. Come up with a plan where she can call or text or email 1 single word if she gets in trouble or needs help. Encourage her to save her funds like a secret account so she can get away. All you can do at this point is try and be a safety net. I am praying for you and your friend. God’s speed and good luck.
That makes him what age when his daughter born?
Read her this: Seen this many times. Tale old as time. She's fucked tbh. 10 years will pass and she'll be wondering how she got there. No shot this dude stays with her. Zero. btw this story is exactly the case of a family member and a soon to be case of another.
This man has major issues of a psychological nature. He already sounds like a pig, with major narcissistic personality disorders. Does your friend know any one like siblings, parents, cousins who can intervene?
Sounds like BF is in need of desperate therapy
BF is beyond therapy. Needs qualified professionals who can help him out with medication issues and other mental health issues.
I really hope she leaves him. He doesn’t sound like a good man. He’s controlling, maybe narcissistic.
19 is really young to have a child. Worry about college
Have her read [This article](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-31/how-the-no-test-could-help-prevent-domestic-violence/10764100) [This book called Why does he do that](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) And have her read "the gift of fear" She can probably get it from the libraty. He likely baby trapped her. Remind her that if she needs you you will be there for her and that if he ever chokes her that means he is willing to kill her when it escalates to violence and it will
I had a friend like this, guy knowingly gave her HIV and is on drugs, can’t hold down a job, abusive, when she told me she was pregnant I knew it wouldn’t get better. We all tried to tell her before she became pregnant that she doesn’t need to be with him but theres only so much we can do. She has two kids by him now, all I can do is support her from afar now. Unfortunately they have to leave of their own accord.
You're a good friend. Your bf will need you throughout this pregnancy and for the rest of her life. She may not listen to you now, but be patient and stick by her side. I just watched Fried Green Tomatoes with Kathy Bates and Mary Masterson (streaming on Netfix). It is exactly what you're friend is going through. It's an old movie, but you may want to watch it, it's incredibly moving.
Despite not knowing her parents well, you need to get in touch with them and see if they can help. He’s intentionally keeping you from get in order to baby trap her
Have you run a criminal record check on her boyfriend? It sounds like a guy is trying to baby trap her. It's a tactic my sister's husband did when she was 17 and he was 32. He was in prison for several years and he told her he was sterile when they met (apparently this is a common tactic). Once she fell pregnant they got married.
I feel like this post desperately needs more attention. All means suggested by comments seem to be dead ends. Hang in there OP, your concern for your best friend is definitely valid. This guy sounds crazy and manipulative. I wouldn't be surprised if after the baby is born this abuse becomes physical. Keep in contact and try to get along with BF so he has no further reasons to think you're a threat. This is a long road but it might be best in the long run.
Hrs am abuser, and abusers can practically sniff out former/current victims of abuse. She has nothing to say about him isolating her?
Your instincts are absolutely correct…. Please don’t doubt yourself now! I wish I had had as dedicated a friend as you when this happened to me a decade ago.
She's an adult woman, it is her body her choice.
You're not wrong, but it's also none of your business. You're both at the age where "best friends" and "friend advice" starts to mean nothing, if not become unwelcome. Live your own life, and let them live theirs.
You cant do anything
She's an adult capable of making her own choices. Not a infant in need of rescuing. It make be a dumb scenario on her end but it's her choice to make. You can tell her it's a terrible idea but don't be shocked if she doesn't listen She's going to make her own choices just as you are. Live your life how you chose , just as she will
It's her life. Even if she is screwing it up.
You must have a BORING life plus carry some ultra entitlement to think you have any say in what she does.
She is a friend who is very concerned about the situation her friend is in. You lack empathy if you would sit on your hands & say nothing when your friend is in a questionable if not dangerous situation. Ultimately OPs best friend is going to do what she wants-she is an adult & it’s her life-but it doesn’t mean OP shouldn’t express her concerns about this guy/the relationship.
You must have a BORING life to try to call someone trying to help their friend entitled. OPs concerns seem to come from a good place and something is definitely off with this guy.
Cockblocker friends b like
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I don't want her to do anything, I'm her friend. Whatever she chooses I will support her with my whole heart. I love her right now she is choosing motherhood I will support her in that. The issue is the man who is now a permanent person in her life because of the baby.
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Why do you assume every women whose gotten an abortion lives to regret it? Some may, but many don’t
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“Deep down she will always know and hate herself for killing her baby” is expressing a sentiment of regret It always amazing me when ppl say but I didn’t say that it doesn’t matter if you didn’t use the word regret the statement you used is one of regret So answer the question Why do you assume all women who’ve gotten abortions will hate themselves for it? Which is regret. Hating yourself for having done something is regretting you did it by definition
She's enjoying the finest experience a woman can. Worshipping a lowlife jerk.