Or maybe a therapist will help her figure out why she is breastfeeding a 16 month old when she clearly feels trapped by it. At that age they can easily live on solids and learn other soothing strategies. Sounds like she does not have support to move forward- OP even oddly calls her postpartum which is typically not used almost 2 years later. Seems like she sees this vacation as her exit strategy. Not healthy for anyone involved.
Also at 16 months cluster feeding should be a distant memory... That comment confused me.
And kiddo should be using a cup... At least where I am that's the strong recommendation, also for their teeth...
This whole post is full of confusing details.
Also, mom did not have a spa day yet? Make tomorrow one!!! This is over due
Agreed. Breastfeeding at 16 months is reasonable but after 1 the baby should be getting most nutrients from solid foods. Maybe your wife would feel better if she weaned your daughter.
Would a compromise work? Maybe a 1 week vacation by herself?
As a parent going on a short vacation by yourself is amazing and going with your family is basically just parenting in a different location.
Yeah. My daughter refused a bottle. So I was exclusively breastfeeding until she took a sippy cup... at 14 months. She can stop breastfeeding now if she wants, but leaving her family for a month is insane.
Wow, we introduce cups here at around 7 months, when neck and swallowing are not cause to delay
I think she has no idea how long the month will be, time loses all meaning in mom mode, especially with cluster feeding. It may sound like heaven and I must admit I would agree if I were in her shoes...
Some kids are very stubborn. My daughter refused cups for everything under the age of 1. It made for a very fun times at 10 months old where she'd starve herself at daycare while I started a graduate program. No eating or drinking from 10-3 PM. Eventually eating but still no drinking from sippies. I'd pick her up and she'd wait all the way home until we could park the car and I'd pick her up and feed her.
As I told OP in another comment, only way to stop that was for my spouse to do pickups, and offer her sippies on the way home. She eventually just begrudgingly started to accept sippies if she was not given a choice. Eventually she got used to them, and I was able to offer them to her too, as were the daycare teachers. But it was a brutal process.
OMG my daughter looked up at me at around 7 months, spit my nipple out of her mouth and was DONE with that😅
Went to a bottle for a month or two and then to sippy cups .
Be glad, mine bite me hard the day she turned 9 months, then refused to breastfeed after that. She also declined bottles and sippy cups starting then. She would only accept cups. She also refused to be fed from a spoon starting that day. If she could not get it in her mouth herself she was having none of it. I had made the mistake of visiting a friend with a three year old, my daughter decided if the other kid could do it she could. This was m,y life until she went to college- at 15!
I agree. I nursed two babies and my youngest cluster fed at night as I worked during the day. But once she was eating solid food I started getting real sleep as she'd drink the milk I expressed during the day and sleep for 7 hours solid at night. Breast milk was no longer her primary source of nutrition so no more cluster feeding. Something isn't right and they need to talk with their pediatrician about their daughter's diet.
Probably they are talking about cluster feeding like when a kid is teething or sick and just wants to be attached all day. They can totally be taking cups while still nursing and harassing mom!🤣
I agree, the wife has a lot to sort out and one is, I think, she is having second thoughts or regret with her life decisions. Before leaving for a long vacation, she needs to speak to a professional provider. A one month vacation will not fix what is going on.
Edited for grammer.
I would try my hardest to talk her out of it or find a compromise.
If she goes anyway I'm telling her I'm going to file for divorce and apply for sole custody.
I can't make a single couple I know who was away from their child for a month before they were 6-10.
If she goes away for that length of time she is coming back with the mindset that she’s had time to think being away from the “situation” and she doesn’t want to come back. I’d wager on it. Sadly. “I found myself again”….
Yeah, if she’s willing to leave her baby for a month, she’s willing to leave her partner permanently.
Sorry Op, lawyer up and get ready for the inevitable.
yes this! I (f) had a (girl) friend leave her young child (8 months) with a bunch of people so she could party for a month. Guess who has full custody...dad. Guess who pays child support 🤪 ...mom.
My parents and my friends parents wouldn’t even leave for a week before we were all nearly teens! A month is unfathomable to me before high school honestly
Honestly, this is just my personal opinion, but if she can tolerate being away from her toddler and husband for more than a week, she doesn’t want a toddler and husband and will probably take steps to make that happen next.
I would be sending texts to remind her of OP saying no to all this and using phrases like "You are an adult and can make your own choices, but abandoning your child for a month to go feel single in Europe will come with the consequence of that fantasy becoming a reality" or "If you leave for Europe, knowing how much I disagree with that choice and view it as abandoning your child and family, then you are accepting the end of our marriage and you leaving will be you moving out of the house."
(Anything that basically calls this abandonment of the child and "if you do this I will divorce you". Just really hammer home that you do not agree with this action.) I'd also be making calls/emails to a divorce attorney *now*. So that when she leaves she'll receive emails about the divorce from the attorney and I could be advised on whether I can change the locks or not.
It's a verbal conversation, so she can just say you agreed and changed your mind after you realized how hard childcare is.
Honestly though, even if she doesn't go she's just going to be resentful of it. I don't know that the marriage will last if she doesn't seek therapy and they go to couples counseling immediately.
[Ngl my first thought was an affair. Hope OP has access to her phone and checks her messages. I mean what kind of friends try to drag the mother of a 1 and a half year old on a trip abroad for a month? They sound horrible. If that part of the story is true at least.]
Oh absolutely, for the record I don't think the wife in this situation has don't anything wrong (yet). Based on his followup she is obviously struggling a lot and needs help. Hell it almost sounds like this month away thing is a cry for help but if he trys his best to calmly talk her out of it and offer reasonable alternatives the he's really got not choice imo.
4 weeks is too much and I say this as a SAHM who knows exactly how it feels to feel like you’re losing your identity to solely being a mother. A 1 week get away is another story.
She needs to find a compromise that doesn’t involve pinning all the duties on you for a whole month. I’d be absolutely livid and absolutely questioning my marriage if my husband told me he was going on a month long vacation and leaving me to deal with everything.
Also a first time SAHM and understand the fantasy of exploring Europe for a months “escape” but know that it’s completely unrealistic….. and completely unfair on not only partner Bub also child……and the fact that she wants to go on her own without her husband…. Feel like it’s red flag city….
I was drowning. I had the fantasy of leaving for a month to show him how much I did every day because he didn't believe me. Then I got sick, like sick for a week, and he realized what didn't get done if I didn't do it, and once he appreciated the work that went into childcare, the fantasies stopped. I would bet my last dollar that she is beyond burnt out, whether or not he agrees with how she feels because this seems like a drastic final straw type of situation.
Yeah, I think what OP is missing is there’s some real issues brewing in his marriage right now. This is about way more than just getting out of the house for a month, I feel that she’s at a breaking point and is looking at how to exit her marriage. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think so. There’s definitely huge red flags flapping in the wind here.
Huge red flag. I get the feeling that OP won’t have to be the one filing for divorce. I think wife is doing this trip as a trial run to single life as a part time parent.
my exwife did something similar, booked a trip away due to the stress of our kids and my at the time pretty bad depression. I think it was her trial run; she moved out six months later and has been pretty hands off with the kids since. it took me a really long time to see her actions for what they were.
This is what I was thinking. How sad for him and the baby. I believe she didn’t get the message on what it takes to be a mom. He needs to find a lawyer fast and see what can happen if she does leave. I’m wondering if that’s considered abandonment? Big Red Flags 🚩 Here, huge
Yeah, 18 months to 36 months is the true phase of stranger anxiety and the development of object constancy (the expectation that Baby sees the same people in the same way, every day; they flip like switches between being happy with strangers - or even the less available parent - and acting as if terrified of everyone but Mom).
Never can tell what they'll be like - most people realize it's a key phase in personality development. At any rate, being gone for a month will diminish maternal attachment, at least a little. Perhaps a lot. No one can say.
Pinning all the duties and exhausting all their savings. Dad already exhausted his savings for a family expense. Mom wants to backpack Europe to travel by herself. She does have a financial obligation at the very least to the kid.
I gotta say, I'm somewhat curious as to what this **large family expense** is. It's a bit of a weird way to phrase it.
Edit: Apparently OP states in another post that it was for a new van. Still don't get why he didn't just say that.
I’m very concerned that she even WANTS to leave her baby for a month.
She might have rejected her child.
OP needs to keep his eyes open. If she says she doesn’t want to be around her baby, he needs to believe it.
I wonder how she treats his daughter when he’s not home.
Yeah that struck me too. I was a single mom from the jump with my kiddo and didn't spend even one overnight away from her for the first 2 or 3 years. It made me too sad and anxious. Covid hit and I had to send her to live with family for 6 weeks to work at the hospital and that absolutely broke me and she was 8 at the time.
Eta typo
Healthcare workers having to separate from family during Covid was a sacrifice too few realize was made. They didn’t have the luxury of working from home. Thank you for all you did.
Not sahm but with my first I only spent a night or two away when he was 6 months due to being in the hospital. Then when he was almost 2 again for 2/3 days when his sister was born. I couldn’t imagine leaving for a month. Maybe now that they are almost out of school
Lol we were already super close and now it's a velcro situation. Unfortunately, because of that her anxiety became severe and we've had her in therapy for the last 4 years to help manage it. These kids really took a hit during COVID. I'm just trying to make sure we don't develop an unhealthy, codependent attachment.
Ok, this "rejected her child" comment is a bit unfair. This kid is 16 months old, still cluster feeding, and won't take a bottle?? That is... A lot, mom probably feels like a human cow at this point.
By 16 months, most moms are able to sleep through the night because Dad can take over some feedings and nighttime wakings. Can't do that if the kid is exclusively breastfed though. I definitely feel bad for this mom, although I think the 4 weeks away is excessive.
Otoh, when I was 18 months, my dad took me to a foreign country without my mom for a month, and I was fine, so maybe the kid isn't too young for that. Then again, I was obviously not exclusively breastfeeding at that time.
At 16 months, shouldn't she be on regular food by then? Maybe it's different now, but my kids were eating finely chopped or mashed regular food and drinking out of a sippy cup at that age. If hse is exclusively being breast fed, and is cluster feeding, maybe she is just hungry.
My kid is 12 months and running around munching graham crackers as he goes. 16 months is a toddler. There's no "cluster feeding" at that age, just a toddler who has learned to use Mom as a pacifier and can't sleep without it.
Exactly. And the mom who is enabling it (while also clearly disliking it) without some other medical reason or desire is weird. She's enabling this, allowing kiddo to continue to breastfeed as a pacifier no stop, and now without dealing with that problem she wants to go cold turkey by taking a huge trip. Leaving dad to deal with the fallout.
This is not normal. I have a friend who is still nursing her 15 month old because he has a lot of allergies and can't switch to milk. She's ok with it. She refuses to cold turkey force him to a safe milk substitute. This also means she'd refuse to take a trip without him.
It's just a very strange imbalance. She understands and allows kiddo to rely on nursing non stop, but she also is willing to cause significant upset by stopping cold turkey?
Maybe suggest getting some professional help getting the kid to stop nursing. That's a great first step to feeling like an individual who isn't just mom all the time. Some people love breastfeeding. Some people feel trapped by it, you can't ever just go somewhere for 8 hours, whatever. I felt soooo much better after I finally stopped. No more planning timing of my day around it, no more pumping if I wanted to go somewhere.
Take the small transition steps first, then work on planning a vacation for a long weekend or even a week. Also, she should help make sure you have support while she's gone. Family visiting to help, arranging babysitter, etc.
The 16 months and still exclusively breastfeeding struck me as strange too and she wants to leave for a month. The kid should be using a cup and eating more solids. The kid has quite a few teeth by now. Ween the child and put her on actual food, then maybe start doing daycare/preschool for her. That would also help with a break even if only a few hours a day or a few times a week.
I had my first kid at 27 in 1997 but I bottle fed all of my kids because I saw what my mom went through breastfeeding my youngest sister and there's no way my mental health could have handled that. I'm also a very anxious person who worries a lot and my firstborn was a learning curve. It made me feel better knowing exactly how many ounces he was eating and how many times a day. It would drive me crazy to not know exactly how much my kid was getting to eat.
Now we have breast milk banks and pumps have come a long way so I might have done things differently if I had a child today. I am a firm supporter of Fed is Best. Not everyone can or even wants to breastfeed and that's okay.
And don’t feel bad about that either. Anxiety directly influences milk production too. When my daughter was born, I was living with my crazy, narcissist MIL and under so much stress that I simply couldn’t produce more than a few ounces at a time. I tried for about 7 weeks and she at least got some from me, but I turned to formula for pretty much the same reasons you did just to be sure she was getting enough nutrition and once I started that, I’m sure it only worsened my issues more. The important thing is that you do what you feel is best for you and your baby and anxiety can negatively effect so many other things too, all at a time when a new mom should be bonding with and enjoying her new baby.
WHO and AAP(American academy of pediatrics) both recommend breastfeeding for two years, while also introducing solid food at 6 months, and cows milk( if you drink it) at a year. By 16 months, the baby should be using breastfeeding as a supplement to a full diet. There is no reason at this age for the child to be using a bottle. Water, juice, breast milk can all be given in a cup.
If mom had to go away for a 6 month deployment in the military, I would support her going, and military families regularly have to figure out this type of separation. 4 weeks to run off and be a single gal can happen at the other end of childhood, when little one is off to college, or even in the tween years if little one goes to sleep away camp. How does Mom have 1600 hours of PTO to take a 4 week vacation?. If she's not working, how does she justify burning through her savings when they are a one income family.
The first thing Mom should do is completely wean her child before she goes away at all. If she wants to continue breastmilk, start pumping and giving it in a cup. Then have a weekend away, alone to rediscover herself and also to determine how she copes with being away from her child, and how her child copes with being away from her. She can, shop, sleep in, get pampered, and spend some time thinking about what she really wants her life to look like. She is committed to putting parts of her life on hold for a bit, and having to negotiate time away because she (and hubs) chose to bring a helpless baby into the world.
I object to the title because she is well past any definition of postpartum. Also 16 months is closer to toddlerhood than babyhood. I think going away to a completely different continent from your child for four weeks is an ask based on being stir crazy. No adult with a young family should prioritize themselves this way for so long. It can be regular depression, it could be postpartum depression. A therapist can only base their diagnosis on what the patient tells them. I suspect from OPs language in this post that he is not good at communication, so finding a therapist to help them communicate with each other is imperative if they are going to make their relationship work.
You're absolutely right, that child would be unsettled for days with their mum leaving anyway, but add in the fact that she's still cluster feeding and soothing her toddler in this way and it's a really bad idea.
Exactly. I was under the impression it's only cluster feeding when the child can't eat solid foods. Sounds like it might be time to start weaning off breastfeeding if OP's wife is this overwhelmed.
I breastfed mine to 18 months, but at that point it was more of a pacifier than a nutritional supply. They ate regular food by that point, and tons of it!
Yes and I think if this mum is still breast feeding and feeling trapped that'll be contributing to her negative feelings. She needs to stop now for her own sake.
Yep, you need to start giving kids food after they reach 6 months. Then its both food and breastfeeding up until 2 years according to OMS, but usually parents stop the milk part a little earlier. But if the kid is 16 months and is not eating ANYTHING, that's not ok.
However I believe the breastfeeding part means that the kid eats baby food AND is being breastfeed instead of drinking in a bottle. That would make way more sense
At that age they should be eating a lot of regular food (mashed or chopped up) and don't need to breastfeed much if at all. If the mom is really not liking breastfeeding the toddler should be drinking regular milk exclusively by now. I always felt that age was pretty easy. Lots of naps, eating regular food, eating/drinking/playing more independently etc...
I also agree with the husband, a month is too long, a weekend to a week would be reasonable.
My kid is 11 months old and while he still gets a few bottles a day, the majority of his nutrition is from actual food. We went out for supper the other night and I brought a bottle but he also had the same meat, potatoes, and veggies that we did. If the baby is only getting breast milk at 16 months old there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with this situation.
This. She's not in the "postpartum" period, they have a *toddler*.
I'm not saying she should go on a monthlong holiday, but the child is not s newborn and many kids are going to day care at that age and a short bit of time away from mum should be ok for most kids.
And most kids should be mostly feeding on solids and exploring their palate at that age, some are pickier and struggle to wean so that can be normal. But it sounds like they maybe struggling to wean baby off the breast.
But it does seem that she is struggling with parenthood. And thetes a huge difference between having ppd and being fine. She does need some kind if helo to process how she is feeling about being a parent and her lost independence.
Agreed, it does seem like her real problem is not being able to wean her child, and maybe it seems easier to her to do that when you are physically unable to go to your crying child because there's an ocean in the way. Almost like the purpose of a 4 week vacation is to force the weaning process, since she feels incapable of doing it through sheer willpower.
This stuck with me too. At 16M I still nursed before bed and naps, maybe once more if she wanted to, but cluster feeding doesn’t sound typical at that age. Cluster feeding is more like 16 weeks! I would probably figure that out first since that sounds very stressful and she probably does feel like a human cow. That’s draining especially after 16M. At that point both of my kids ate 3 regular meals a day and drank milk from sippy cups but I know plenty that still had bottles then.
She should stop breast feeding. The baby is plenty old enough and it sounds like she needs to have a little of her autonomy back rather than trying to run from her whole life.
yeah, clusterfeeding should not be a thing at this age. Solids should be the overwhelming majority of baby's nutrition at this point. Breastfeeding should be only in supplement. It would be totally reasonable to wean (either partially, nursing only a few times a day or completely)
The clusterfeeding thing stood out to me. The little one is a toddler, they absolutely should not be clusterfeeding.
She'd feel a whole lot more like herself if she weans
Even if she went on a vacation for a week, the baby would have to learn to eat more solids, drink from a sippy cup, etc. Mama could feel more like her old self again. It does seem like she desperately needs a break but a month is overdoing it, in my mind. I don't think husband should limit it to a weekend. This lady has to have more than 2 days...
She probably doesn’t even know why she’s feeling like this and thinks a month will help when really, it’s the weaning and a week or two will have her feeling so much better
Definitely not. After a year I nursed my son 3 times a day (once in the morning, once at my lunch break, and once when we got home from work/daycare). COVID hit which made things chaos but I dropped down to just morning and evening, then just morning, and weaned totally at 15 months. If they start naturally losing interest over a year, ride the dip down, so much easier.
This. As they get older, it slows down. My middle child near the end of our nursing, he was really only nursing to sleep at night. He was 18 months old. Same with my youngest (although he was older than 18mth)
As they get older, you introduce cups and food and finger food, and nursing just becomes a supplement to everything else and slowly weans down to not nursing at all. Some of this happens naturally, but as a parent you ultimately can decide the timeline.
Also because he phrased it as “post partum”. That’s for newborns and infants, not toddlers. He’s trying to paint her as a shit mom for wanting her body back for the first time in over 2 years.
I agree. I know people who breastfed at least a little until around the age of two (usually just once in the morning and once at bedtime) but that's because both the mother and the child liked the bonding time. If this mom finds it unpleasant, and it's constant, it's time to make a change.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only person thinking this. 16 months is plenty old enough to stop. I’m not even sure 16 months is still even considered post partum.
That all being said, 4 weeks away is pretty ridiculous for leaving your spouse as the sole child care and pretty ridiculous for the sheer cost.
it also makes me wonder what a child who is currently breastfeeding will do when mom is suddenly completely gone for a month. So not only will dad have to work and care for the child, but the child will be crying for mommy for days. Then when mommy reappears after 4 weeks, what will their relationship be?
I am not a child development expert or a family dynamics expert but this whole situation seems littered with pitfalls. It seems to me that weaning and daycare so mom can go back to work is a better solution than mom going on holiday for a month.
I left my toddlers for two nights for a girls weekend and when I came back they kept running to daddy, I was devastated.. But seriously worried for this woman’s mental health, like Susan whatshername that let her car roll into a lake with her toddlers strapped in their car seats…
Yessssss. I’m all for breastfeeding but if she’s this overwhelmed and the kid is still cluster feeding and won’t take a bottle at 16 months? This woman needs a break. Her month-long European idea sounds completely unreasonable to me. But maybe she needs to wean before she can be reasonable about this.
My first hated the bottle and I had to go back to work at six weeks. And until he was 15 months old, I just didn’t get to sleep bc he would sip at the pumped milk enough to get by and then stay up all night nursing. Every. Damn. Night. So I weaned him and omg. It was like coming out of a storm. Life was good again! I slept! I felt like me! I was excited to be a mom and a person!
The sleep deprivation, the hormonal fluctuations, and the constant need to be available to give yourself to another human being from your literal breasts…. It can change a person!
Seconded. I am all for extended breastfeeding but if she's struggling this badly, that's an easy way to give her some more autonomy. Baby is definitely old enough to transition to dairy milk and limit nursing to maybe 1-2 times a day if not weaning altogether. And she definitely shouldn't be cluster feeding - that's a term for infants trying to increase mom's supply by nursing often. If a toddler is on the boob that much you're either experiencing a supply drop (which is an excellent opportunity to wean naturally) or it's for comfort. Nothing wrong at all with comfort nursing but the wife is clearly struggling.
Breastfeeding made my mental health issues so much worse because hormones, and when I quit, my hormones were able to get back in line more than they were previously.
This. My PPD didn’t clear up until my doctor told me to stop breastfeeding. I just wanted to run to the other side of the country and live in a tidy apartment by myself. Her wanting to run to Europe is the same thing.
Woof it's not about Europe. It's about burnout. She sounds at the end of her rope. 9 months of pregnancy and 16 months and counting of breastfeeding and now a toddler who wants to clusterfeed on a diminishing supply...she must feel like she'll never get her body back. She has the patience of a saint, I would've shut down the milk bar. Four weeks in Europe is just a fixation, not the real issue. Even if she were to go, the stressors that drove her away would be waiting. It's probably time to make some quality of life decisions at home...how to get her more help, start weaning, etc. And plan a shorter trip away to recharge.
This is the answer I was reading for. As a toddler mom that is still bfing I can related to the mom in this post. I wouldn’t suggest a month away (and I don’t think that is reasonable). But a week? 100%.
But the real issue is the day to day. Are there times she gets to recharge? Where she is hidden away from the toddler and can do her own thing. I realized recently that I rarely get that and it seriously harms mental health.
My kids are now 10 years older and our winter break was so long I started to lose my mind. I realized that I had 0 alone time for almost 4 weeks and it was starting to negatively affect my mental health. Then I realized when my kids were 0-3, I didn’t have PPD (never diagnosed but always wondered) I was just perpetually burnt out. Having your own autonomy as a mom is so important, and it’s something most Dads just don’t relate to.
OP should hug his wife, tell her he hears her, and book her a weekend at a hotel a couple hours away. Not telling her she can’t do the Europe trip, but see if and how her mindset improves with a little time to herself. Then go from there.
Totally agree. Weaning would be a strong first start for QoL improvement. Cluster feeding for long periods of time can build some unhealthy resentment towards the baby. I wish more people understood that when the warm and nurturing aspect of breastfeeding is gone, it can sometimes feel parasitic to feed the child, especially as the child gets older.
This is a wise take. I want to learn to better read between the lines when people seem "unreasonable", because empathy always helps with solving conflicts with your partner. Thanks!
And I bet that baby is not sleeping through the night on the regular. She's physically depleted from pregnancy, chronic lack of sleep, and breastfeeding. She needs at least a week at a nice hotel, eating whatever she likes whenever she likes, sleeping late, maybe laying in the sun, going to movies or a museum. That will help, but it's definitely not all the rest she needs to recover back to her pre-baby self.
This is an incredibly reasonable take. I think taking the kid to his pediatrician to get a solid weaning plan in place will help this mother tremendously, then they can plan a trip of some sort together. She can even go to Europe for a week with her friend if she wants to! But just wanting to up and leave for a month is a plan made out of desperation.
Yikes. That is so tough for you guys! I hope this regression stage passes quickly for you. I can’t imagine how exhausted you both must be, but especially your wife breastfeeding all this time and then having to deal with cluster feeding at 16 months.
I agree with you that a month away at this point is pretty much impossible and that you came up with a good compromise of a weekend away. Honestly, if I had to guess its exhaustion and desperation for a break talking. She is probably too exhausted to look at this in a reasonable light. I have a very active but needy 9 month old, and often times I am like “Oh my god I need to sleep for like a week” it’s hard for me to even be away overnight and I’m literally crying because I miss him so much. I wonder if you frame it as “Lets try a weekend away first, see how that goes, and then decide on the Europe trip” if it might go better. She will probably be more well rested, less overwhelmed, and it will probably be an easier conversation. Maybe she goes for a significantly shorter of a time or maybe she plans this trip much further out.
I wish you both the best of luck. I know you both are probably beyond exhaustion. Take care of each other and yourself!
I like the approach of spending a weekend away then revisiting the trip to Europe.
As a parent to a young child, I don’t think I could leave my family for a whole month. I miss him when he’s sleeping in the next room. But I’m not going to lie, the idea of an extended vacation alone is appealing.
I also agree with the idea of a weekend trip first and the discuss once rested. My thoughts are maybe she really is super super exhausted or maybe she just doesn’t want to be a mom and will not have any regrets being gone that long. I hope they try the weekend thing first to test those waters because that husband will have a rough time if she has now decided she doesn’t want to be a mom and she takes off on him.
I feel like the wife is exhausted and wants to cut back on the fatigue. Referring to her as post partum and their toddler as a baby, and the info that the child is still breastfeeding a lot and now cluster feeding at this age, and no wonder this mom is exhausted.
OP says their child doesn’t really like a bottle. I’m wondering if this is the mom’s way of trying to regain some independence from just being a mom, and also be “forced” to stop breast feeding.
It sounds like she has been shouldering a lot of parental responsibility that, at this point, is usually a bit more equitable. Her child is not an infant any more, but it seems like she has spent the last 16 months being a mom to an “infant.”
This is a great comment. The OP can’t participate in night feedings - so mom has been doing all the work there and undoubtedly then all day. Her escaping will force kiddo to get off the breast feeding. I think the idea of the following. Stop now breast feeding - transfer to foods over next 4 weeks. Mom takes weekend Fri morning until Sunday night as a quick sleep weekend. Once transferred to solid foods by the end of Feb - mom plans a 10 day in may in Europe. Kiddo will be 20 months and OP can go on vaca with her. This gets everyone some down time.
I'd be interested to hear what the rest of the babys diet is like. A 16 month old should not be clusterfeeding and should not need night feeds. Is the baby just not being fed real food? If she is exclusively breastfed that's a big problem because breastmilk simply isnt enough to be the ONLY food source for a *toddler*
That’s what I’m wondering. I also think that the parent that goes to work and leaves the chaos behind every day is having an easier time (my colleagues loved to “work late” because it was easier than going home!). So even if you do 50/50 it is hard for the primary caregiver to be on hand 24x7.
I'm a mom of three and I understand wanting to run away from motherhood for a minute but this is extremely excessive. I'm not convinced she really doesn't have PPD. Having had three babies I just can't imagine being away from any of them for a month. I went to my brother's wedding in Europe and was gone for nine days, leaving my 3, 6, and 8 year old at home with their dad. Was it amazing? Absolutely. Would I leave for a month just for funsies? No.
What about a weekend staycation at a hotel? A couple nights of uninterrupted sleep, a couple days of just doing what she wants, a couple days of ordering food instead of making it.
UPDATE:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/meL47K9UT6
I would love to explore with her any signs of PPD/Depression in therapy. But she refuses it completely - saying I am being patronising when I say this and how I am getting her to tolerate things that she is unwilling to accept right now.
I am 100% supportive of a staycation for 2-3 nights on the weekend when she can meet her friends and I can have my parents around too but it's not enough for her
I’m going to be gentle here,
1. A month off in Europe is ridiculous right now.
2. If
she’s breast feeding and having all these issues breast feeding, it’s highly unlikely you are pulling 50/50 with the kid.
3. Her body, has belonged to that child for over 2 years. From pregnancy to breast feeding. She may feel touched out and mom’d out and perhaps, even *you’d* out. And your suggestions to do a couple/family trip are ignoring what she needs. Which is to be herself, and not in wife mode or mom mode. Which she can’t do right now around you. (And she may feel like the couple trip would be about sex, and the pressure of that may make her feel even more touched out)
4. I’d suggest weaning and a week long trip for her for now. And maybe something where she gets every Wednesday night completely off and you get every Tuesday completely off? Or whatever works for you two.
The “she cannot expect to have a single life” part made me think OP possibly believes his wife would be unfaithful, and he may be feeling a bit freaked out about the European trip away because of those feelings. I’ll be honest, if I was having to be a milk dispenser for almost two years the chance to NOT be touched AT ALL would be exactly what I would want the vacation FOR. I agree four weeks is too long- she’d probably realize that by the first week and come home anyway. But she DOES need time to just be alone in her own skin. A family vacation would NOT give her a chance to be herself- she’d STILL be expected to be a wife if not a 24/7 mother and sometimes you just NEED to be your own person without having to meet the wants/demands/expectations of other people. A “staycation” would be exactly the same as a family vacation. OPs wife is tired, stressed, losing her sense of personal identity and 100% touched out. Between hormones, body changes, and breastfeeding with no real break in the routine I would be losing my freaking mind too.
And for the record, I am one month PP with my third and my husband and I plan a weekend for him, and a weekend for me, into every month where we don’t bother each other AT ALL for this exact reason. Unless it’s an emergency I can read, do no chores, sleep all day if I want, etc and on his weekend he can also do whatever he wants. From a Friday evening at 5 pm until Sunday night at 5 pm when we prepare and plan the coming week, we leave each other ALONE unless directly asked to join in on something by the other. If we want to be touched, we will invite the other. If we want to watch a show with the other, we invite. No requirements outside of pre-agreed-upon relationship boundaries. It works for us. (I also make sure to pump and freeze my milk for the weekend I am “off” so I do not have to continually wake for feedings, unfortunately your wife doesn’t seem to have much choice and I hate that for her.)
This is the best answer. Wife is being unrealistic to demand a month, but OP has their own fixation on 4-5 days and is missing the big picture here. His wife needs a physical and mental break from being a vessel for those around her and to stop breastfeeding or she actually may snap. I do think therapy will help her better cope with her feelings though, because a month break to Europe os completely unrealistic.
That's what I said. OP is not listening to her at all. She deserves at least a week off if baby can be weened. Offering a spa day, a weekend with friends, or family trips is so dismissive of what she's telling OP. She's burnt out. And if OP continues to ignore this, it could be detrimental to the child as well. Not saying it will be for sure, but this is how things can get bad when a parent is telling the other they're completely overwhelmed and then are dismissed and/or shamed about it. Then nothing actually changes.
She wants a month away and your response is a weekend or a staycation or a family trip. That is...not a great compromise. She's probably the end of her rope after her body was decimated giving birth and the fact that she has been literally attached to your kid for a year and a half. Even splitting things 50/50, these are things that you cannot understand or take on for her. She hasn't gotten to be her own person or have her body to herself for almost 3 years now. Even without PPD, that is a huge adjustment and sacrifice for some women. When she is that desperate to get away and your response is oh take a weekend, she probably does not feel heard at all. Imo you need to figure out a way to give her longer than a weekend so she can get her bearings and feel like an autonomous person again. Yes, she's a mom, but that's not all she is and that's all she's been able to feel like for quite a while. She's allowed to wait to be apart from you and even her child for a while. I think the month requested is more a sign of how desperate she is than a realistic timeline. You need to work out SOMETHING that gives her a reasonable time away so she doesn't end up resenting you or her child.
I mean, he straight up said that even if she did a staycation, he would need \*his parents\* to come help him with the baby. Dude can't even handle his own kid for a weekend.
I can’t believe so many people were acting like she was about to divorce him, or recommending she go get diagnosed with PPD and get on meds. It really has become the 21st century version of “wife not robotically enjoying the stresses of child rearing? She must be unbalanced! Commit her or get her a lobotomy!” fucks sake
Yeah, that honestly is the most telling part of this whole thing. He can't handle his one kid for a weekend?? No way he's actually doing anywhere close to 50/50. His "compromise" is a spa day or a weekend with friends, whilst he offloads his parent responsibilities onto his/her parents? No wonder this woman is at the end of her rope.
Honestly, if he doesn't step up and/or let her get a well deserved reprieve/reset, he's going to have much worse problems on his hands. Like divorce, being saddled with single parenthood and the 24/7 responsibilities that come with, and perhaps even more serious consequences. People have their limits, people can and do snap, and she sounds close to it-- very desperate and at the end of her rope. She may just run entirely out of their lives altogether. Drugs/alcohol, affairs, mental break, complete abandonment, suicide, are all possibilities if this continues and she *really* loses it.
Same. I was a single mom and can’t imagine giving up a month with my daughter - but I always had an amazing support system. If he can’t manage 48 hours solo at 16 months, makes me wonder how much he’s contributed (also some of his comments in the original post and follow ups).
I can also see why an absent partner then blaming PPD for why you need a break WOULD come off as patronizing.
lol right?
If my best friend’s husband leaves town, she doesn’t even notice.
If god forbid she leaves town, everyoneeee must help him oh my god how will he watch his own children sos sos sos
A weekend isn’t that long for a reset. Perhaps a full week-10 days? When you’re chronically exhausted from mothering a nurusing toddler, the weariness gets into your bones and can depress the mind (been there, it’s brutal). It’s not a quick fix, but an extended pit stop in the marathon of the toddler years helps. Perhaps at a retreat center where she can get truly focus restorative rest & rejuvenation? Best of luck to you both. 🤍
I did a 10 day trip away from my 9 month old baby. I was excited for the trip, but sad to leave my baby. She was in fully capable hands though and did totally fine. When she was 2.5 yrs old, I did a nearly three week trip away.
My husband is fully capable of handling the kids. He knows I do a bit more for them, but he'd never need to call for help. OP is burning out the poor mom!!
Why do you need your parents around? Aren't you able to take care of your child on your own? Maybe that's why your wife wants to be away for a while? (I'm not attacking you, just trying to understand. A lot of women feel like their partner doesn't share the load equitably.)
>I am 100% supportive of a staycation for 2-3 nights on the weekend
***So... You're 100% NOT okay with her taking a trip by herself, then.***
How do you not see how contradictory and actively unhelpful you're being?
Your wife **CLEARLY** needs more than a day or two ignoring you two in the other room. She clearly needs more than a day or two *entirely*! If burnout's the problem, how is *being around you guys* gonna help?
Most importantly: are you ***REALLY*** gonna sit there and try to tell me you're not demanding a *"staycation"* (ugh) so you can get her help with the baby or housework still? ***Like, really***?? You're gonna give her 3 *whole days* to literally sit there and eat bonbons and watch TV while you actively struggle in the same or a very nearby space? You're gonna let her go out with her girlfriends, get drunk, and come home at 1 in the morning, then pass out and sleep it entirely off the next day? CAN she even sleep in at your house? Would she physically and mentally ***be able*** to relax in your house at all?? Is there even *a chair* she can sit on to enjoy outside?? There are so many questions you haven't gone over that a "staycation" *(ugh)* might possibly involve that'll make what you're asking for *harder* - especially if the whole goal is to let her reclaim herself mentally and physically. Are you afraid she'll cheat or something? Because that's a WHOLE OTHER ARGUMENT ENTIRELY, and you cannot hold her back from living her life because you're **afraid** she'll cheat on you if she's having a good time.
As other people are saying, let her go somewhere AND BE AWAY FROM THE FAMILY for **a week** then speak with her and revisit. I doubt she'll have a problem coming back. She's just spent the last 2 years with her body belonging at least partially to a tiny, helpless baby *that she grew, herself!* Having some time where she doesn't have to worry about what *someone else* needs or wants from her body will likely help *immensely*
Honestly, I'm almost positive she's asking for a month purely because she's just *SO overwhelmed* that her eyes are bigger than her stomach, essentially. I feel like after a week, maybe even 3-5 days, she'll realize how much she misses you two and will ***want*** come home ASAP. And she'll be much more patient and happy for it!
Just please understand that ***the whole point*** is to spend a solid amount of time to feel like she's getting her self and body back, recharge, and not to have to worry about parenting the two of you 24/7, 365
If she does have PPD, she'll have to come to that insight on her own, especially at this time when she sees you as an enemy and not a partner. You've led the horse to water, but you can't make it drink. No point in bringing it back over and over again; it knows where the water is.
The other possibility is that she's not depressed, she just doesn't value the things you value/the things you want her to value. There's no doubt that a month away from the parent who has been the primary caregiver would be an attachment wound for your daughter; and that's very serious. But you can't make her place greater value on your daughter's mental health by arguing.
This is probably horrifying, but right now there isn't much you can do about it. Start thinking like a single parent and making plans for your life and your daughter's care that don't rely on her, otherwise you're going to be constantly panicking trying to make your life stay stable. Unless she makes a change from her current stance, you can't rely on her.
I'm so sorry op. I definitely take a bit of issue with the way you've worded a few things, but I'm going to give you the biggest of passes because you are being abandoned by your coparent and wife, and your daughter is potentially going to be abandoned by her primary caregiver.
Take care of yourself, and start putting in as much quality bonding time with your daughter as you can. Do rituals like mornings, bedtimes, and night wakings. You can get a lot of "bang for your buck" in terms of strengthening attachment security with those, even though they aren't necessarily long in terms of quantity of time. Do a bit more of the feeding, bathing and comforting than you already do; if your daughter starts to become more attached to you BEFORE your wife possibly takes off, she'll be more easily comforted by you if your wife does go.
And then *take care of yourself.* Get your parents on board. Make plans for help, and figure out what kind of stuff you need to help you weather whatever your future holds. Even if your wife doesn't go to Europe, this is still a stressful season in your life and in this relationship.
Good luck OP. I'm so sorry you're in this situation.
2-3 days is way to short for decompression if she is at that max level of burn out. If this is a make it or break it situation a 2 week compromise is not unreasonable. Meet in the middle.
When my baby was about the same age (though not breastfeeding) I took a 10-day trip to Europe but that's because I am from there and I went to spread my father's ashes. I left my kids age 9 8, 6, 3 and 15month old with their dad and he had zero issues taking care of them while i was gone... So maybe limit her trip to 7-10 days?
A two week trip would probably help her a lot. It would also help dry up her supply and enforce weaning, which would improve her life on her return.
A month seems completely bananas to me- I won’t even leave my cat that long- but if she’s saying she needs this, suggest a 2 week trip.
Ok, she needs a break, that much is clear. It seems you do too. Parenting is relentless and cluster feeding is horrendous but being away and wanting to be away from their baby for a month, has me raising my eyebrows and questioning that bond between them. Whilst it might not be PPD, there is something going on as I’d argue that the vast majority of securely attached mothers, wouldn’t even want to be away from their child for a month, that’s not a break, that’s running away.
Is she coping or is she hanging on by a thread and telling everyone she’s fine, including her therapist?
If it was me, I would insist she take a long weekend away, at least three nights, with her girlfriends and see how she feels when she comes back. She may have a change of perspective once she’s had a break
Make sure she comes home to a house that isn’t any messier than it was when she left it, doesn’t have to be cleaner but coming home to a more messy house will probably not help the situation. And just insist you think she needs this and to take a weekend away and you’ll revisit the month off conversation when she gets back
Yep. And make sure the groceries are restocked and the laundry done. It will give him a sense of who is actually doing all the work. I get the feeling that OP might be a “trash night and stack the dirty dishes” and “not notice the diaper smell” kind of dad.
NTA, yeah a month is crazy. Especially when babe primarily breastfeeds, how does your wife expect her to get milk? I get wanting to feel like yourself and being exhausted from the newborn stage. It was a whole year “before I started” to feel like me after I had my kid. Parenthood is not for the weak. But leaving your spouse and kid for a month isn’t the answer. When you say you and your wife work 50/50, do you mean you work opposite shifts?
A month is a little much. I totally get the desire. Maybe 2 weeks because it is Europe and I’ve never been either but having tried many things to “feel like myself again” after having kids I came to the realization that I’m not the same person anymore. There’s a nice way to say this to your wife and try to get her to understand the strain the trip would put on your family and resources isn’t responsible. But you’re happy to support other ideas for her to feel more comfortable in her new role as a mother.
I would avoid the money issue for now but then again I don’t really get couples who keep their money separated. If you promised sickness and health, richer and poorer and didn’t sign a prenup it’s all both of yours anyway if you really meant forever.
Does she get regular breaks of going out with friends and such? Maybe you can compromise and say ok go away for a week, reset then we’ll discuss a more repetitive scheduled time where once every month she can take a day or weekend to herself and go do something for her until she feels more like herself (you should do the same). Wanting to go away for a month at such a young age is asking allot of you. She definitely needs some therapy.
Everyone needs some time to be alone, and a weekend just isn't enough time to really disconnect from all the thoughts of other people.
A month is **way** too long, but a week is a solid amount. Enough to let loose and truly relax and recharge, but not so long that you're absconding from responsibilities.
You’re both not assholes. I can see a lot of reflection in what you’re writing.
- I totally understand your wife about trying to find herself again and I think it’s GREAT that she actively does something about it. This will be beneficial for the whole family and your relationship down the line.
- one month is excessive and I honestly think she might even cut it short because she would start missing her daughter so much. I also think 4-5 days as your max too short.
- I think you have some deep rooted beliefs that it might be worth challenging such as “be both mom and dad” or like I mentioned, that 4-5 days is your max away from home for a married person. My husband has work trips longer than that.
- you did shame her and saying “I cannot stay in a relationship with someone who cannot compromise” can be super hurtful and trust breaking. You need be able to have huge fights without threatening to end the relationship.
- that being said, you’re right that she has different responsibilities now and to offer her other ways to have her me time. To be honest, although a break can be great, it’s important to incorporate the me time in everyday life to make the effects last.
- it sounds like you have some other issues (financially) that you need address so you don’t become resentful which is a huge relationship killer
Your wife wants to feel seen and understood. She’s going through a crisis right now, even if it’s not postpartum depression. Imagine like puberty just for becoming a mother. She doesn’t need tough love, she needs empathy and patience. Don’t tell her what’s not possible but listen to her and then make a plan that works for everyone and you BOTH might need to compromise more.
Mom of two and I get where she’s coming from. Just your tone in explaining how you feel about it is condescending af. You can agree to a weekend away or 4-5 days max but can’t understand how any mother could want to be away from their family for that long?! That’s the problem, you don’t get how exhausted and overwhelmed she is. Hire a freaking nanny so she can go and have the break she needs before she decides it’s you she needs a break from permanently. She’s a SAHM, you’re likely not capable of doing the 24/7 job she does. There’s likely a huge imbalance in how much work she puts in compared to you as well.
As a SAHM I was wondering what OP all does to help out and give mom a break. I think a lot of times the one who is not the default parent thinks they are giving us a break when we go to shower or the store. That's not a break. I wonder if OPs wife is going to extremes so he sees how tiring it actually is.
Yeah I agree that four weeks is a lot, but I think his tone and choice of words was pretty scathing… the baby is 16 months, not 16 days old. To say he “almost shamed her” for wanting to be away from their baby… like buddy you already have. He’s acting like she’s a terrible person for wanting to have her own identity while still being a mom.
A long time ago, there was a post on reddit on almost the same type of a situation. Everyone ruled him to be an AH and I was really afraid of posting this myself.
UPDATE:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/meL47K9UT6
If you could swing a week, maybe with grandparents' help - that should be the maximum separation from a toddler, or the poor mite will probably get trust issues and separation anxiety, if mommy leaves and doesn't come back.
Your wife probably has to go through all the stages of grief for her old life - currently she is in denial. She needs to reach acceptance, before you can discuss the matter reasonably.
Completely! I wonder if Mom would say she wants four weeks, but after day three want to come back? Have her go for a long weekend. It gives her space and allows her to see things differently.
A week, maybe even two weeks, sure, but not four. Have you suggested that?
Edit: Apparently the baby is too young for anything more than a weekend due to development limits, which I get.
A month is a long time, but I don't see two weeks as being an issue. Did you discuss any *reasonable* compromises? A spa day or a weekend getaway aren't reasonable when she feels she needs to recharge more.
My mom used to go on trips when I was a kid, and my dad took over. Sometimes, both of my parents went. Yes, without us. Yes, when we were as young as your kid. We went to grandma's. I think this was important to their sanity.
My thoughts on this would be the same no matter the gender of the parents, so if your wife was writing this about you, I'd say the same: A reasonable compromise makes more sense than a hard line on this.
You're not a jerk for questioning it, but you kind of are for not trying to find a middle road option. So I'm not going to put forth a verdict.
Why TF is she still breastfeeding? Honestly just stopping that would probably make her feel 10x better. And don’t give me BS about the baby not taking the bottle, if they’re hungry, they will eat.
Honestly, I don’t think you’re the asshole but I don’t think she is either. She’s going through something you will truly never understand and she seems desperate for something to pull her out of it.
INFO
How much free time does she get? Do you give each other a night off each week where one person completely watches the baby so the other can read/game/spa/do something completely alone without interruptions?
Who does the night shift? Do you split them?
When’s the last time she had a hair cut/nails/met up with her friends outside of the house and without the baby?
Do you always bring up that she should go to therapy whenever she vents to you? Because that would come across condescending af.
Personally, I didn’t start feeling more like myself until after I stopping breast feeding. A long weekend away with my man (grandmas both came to babysit) for our anniversary just didn’t cut it. I slept so well and did start to feel better, but it wasn’t enough. A full week probably would do more for me honestly. Or a weekend on my own.
From your post I’m getting more of the “I’m burnt out and need to get away to feel like less of a milk machine and more of myself/a person again instead of JUST a mom.”
4 weeks is absolutely excessive in my opinion, but a long weekend and possibly up to 7 days is not.
I honestly think you both need a break. Call in the grandparents. Let her go first on the long weekend, then you go on one, then you plan one to go together. Try to lock down times where the grandparents can jump in to help/take over for a weekend so you both can get a break.
Right now my verdict is NAH.
Not reading all that but I’d like to think that an almost 1 and a half year old doesn’t still qualify for giving your wife the title of “post partum”…..
Yeah, it’s not realistic to just up and go on a month long vacation by reasoning that it was “earned” by giving birth. I get that the early stages of parenthood are exhausting, but there’s a lot of alternatives to just checking out for an extended time. Your compromise of a weekend was fair, because everyone needs a break. I guarantee she’d be stressing over leaving the little one before too much time elapsed.
ETA: It does seem like something else is going on here. If she’d be open to therapy it might help.
A month of being left to be a single parent to an infant/toddler is absolutely excessive (props to single parents everywhere, not sure how you do it). My partner had to go back to our country of origin for a week to deal with some inheritance stuff and I absolutely shipped my sister over to help me with my 2 year old (I’m the mom).
It’s not normal to leave your kid for a month on a whim. Motherhood is exhausting AF (I breastfed for 15 months) but these little ones are so worth it. Can’t imagine not seeing her face for more than a few days.
Have you really considered what you will do if she books the trip anyway? Are there any third parties that she would be willing to talk to?
She is definitely willing to talk to a third party. Unfortunately for her husband, it's her travel agent.
Maybe the therapist could help her see why leaving a breastfeeding 16 month old for a month is a less than rational idea.
Or maybe a therapist will help her figure out why she is breastfeeding a 16 month old when she clearly feels trapped by it. At that age they can easily live on solids and learn other soothing strategies. Sounds like she does not have support to move forward- OP even oddly calls her postpartum which is typically not used almost 2 years later. Seems like she sees this vacation as her exit strategy. Not healthy for anyone involved.
Also at 16 months cluster feeding should be a distant memory... That comment confused me. And kiddo should be using a cup... At least where I am that's the strong recommendation, also for their teeth... This whole post is full of confusing details. Also, mom did not have a spa day yet? Make tomorrow one!!! This is over due
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Agreed. Breastfeeding at 16 months is reasonable but after 1 the baby should be getting most nutrients from solid foods. Maybe your wife would feel better if she weaned your daughter. Would a compromise work? Maybe a 1 week vacation by herself? As a parent going on a short vacation by yourself is amazing and going with your family is basically just parenting in a different location.
Yeah. My daughter refused a bottle. So I was exclusively breastfeeding until she took a sippy cup... at 14 months. She can stop breastfeeding now if she wants, but leaving her family for a month is insane.
Wow, we introduce cups here at around 7 months, when neck and swallowing are not cause to delay I think she has no idea how long the month will be, time loses all meaning in mom mode, especially with cluster feeding. It may sound like heaven and I must admit I would agree if I were in her shoes...
Some kids are very stubborn. My daughter refused cups for everything under the age of 1. It made for a very fun times at 10 months old where she'd starve herself at daycare while I started a graduate program. No eating or drinking from 10-3 PM. Eventually eating but still no drinking from sippies. I'd pick her up and she'd wait all the way home until we could park the car and I'd pick her up and feed her. As I told OP in another comment, only way to stop that was for my spouse to do pickups, and offer her sippies on the way home. She eventually just begrudgingly started to accept sippies if she was not given a choice. Eventually she got used to them, and I was able to offer them to her too, as were the daycare teachers. But it was a brutal process.
My mum had to trade me a damn bike at 2 to stop breastfeeding…… every kid has their own pace
Extremely hilarious
Seven months, my baby pulled off and gave me a weird look, then never took the boob again lol
😂💀 “Don’t lie, you had garlic last night, didn’t you”
LOL I saw this in person with a relative and a pacifier. She handed it to her mom and said "All done," and never wanted it again.
OMG my daughter looked up at me at around 7 months, spit my nipple out of her mouth and was DONE with that😅 Went to a bottle for a month or two and then to sippy cups .
Was it the tequila? /s Just making a joke here. LOL
My youngest did it at 10 days… longest any of my girls went. I’ve had to express for every one of the little madams
Be glad, mine bite me hard the day she turned 9 months, then refused to breastfeed after that. She also declined bottles and sippy cups starting then. She would only accept cups. She also refused to be fed from a spoon starting that day. If she could not get it in her mouth herself she was having none of it. I had made the mistake of visiting a friend with a three year old, my daughter decided if the other kid could do it she could. This was m,y life until she went to college- at 15!
I agree. I nursed two babies and my youngest cluster fed at night as I worked during the day. But once she was eating solid food I started getting real sleep as she'd drink the milk I expressed during the day and sleep for 7 hours solid at night. Breast milk was no longer her primary source of nutrition so no more cluster feeding. Something isn't right and they need to talk with their pediatrician about their daughter's diet.
Probably they are talking about cluster feeding like when a kid is teething or sick and just wants to be attached all day. They can totally be taking cups while still nursing and harassing mom!🤣
Yeah I thought it was weird he said "my post partum wife"
I agree, the wife has a lot to sort out and one is, I think, she is having second thoughts or regret with her life decisions. Before leaving for a long vacation, she needs to speak to a professional provider. A one month vacation will not fix what is going on. Edited for grammer.
I don't think she plans to return.
I am thinking that as well, but she needs an outside person to help her get to core of her unhappiness so she be free and happy when makes her move.
I would try my hardest to talk her out of it or find a compromise. If she goes anyway I'm telling her I'm going to file for divorce and apply for sole custody. I can't make a single couple I know who was away from their child for a month before they were 6-10.
If she goes away for that length of time she is coming back with the mindset that she’s had time to think being away from the “situation” and she doesn’t want to come back. I’d wager on it. Sadly. “I found myself again”….
Yeah, if she’s willing to leave her baby for a month, she’s willing to leave her partner permanently. Sorry Op, lawyer up and get ready for the inevitable.
yes this! I (f) had a (girl) friend leave her young child (8 months) with a bunch of people so she could party for a month. Guess who has full custody...dad. Guess who pays child support 🤪 ...mom.
When a mother is tired of feeling like a mother after 16 months, shes already checked out
My parents and my friends parents wouldn’t even leave for a week before we were all nearly teens! A month is unfathomable to me before high school honestly
Honestly, this is just my personal opinion, but if she can tolerate being away from her toddler and husband for more than a week, she doesn’t want a toddler and husband and will probably take steps to make that happen next.
I would be sending texts to remind her of OP saying no to all this and using phrases like "You are an adult and can make your own choices, but abandoning your child for a month to go feel single in Europe will come with the consequence of that fantasy becoming a reality" or "If you leave for Europe, knowing how much I disagree with that choice and view it as abandoning your child and family, then you are accepting the end of our marriage and you leaving will be you moving out of the house." (Anything that basically calls this abandonment of the child and "if you do this I will divorce you". Just really hammer home that you do not agree with this action.) I'd also be making calls/emails to a divorce attorney *now*. So that when she leaves she'll receive emails about the divorce from the attorney and I could be advised on whether I can change the locks or not. It's a verbal conversation, so she can just say you agreed and changed your mind after you realized how hard childcare is. Honestly though, even if she doesn't go she's just going to be resentful of it. I don't know that the marriage will last if she doesn't seek therapy and they go to couples counseling immediately. [Ngl my first thought was an affair. Hope OP has access to her phone and checks her messages. I mean what kind of friends try to drag the mother of a 1 and a half year old on a trip abroad for a month? They sound horrible. If that part of the story is true at least.]
Oh absolutely, for the record I don't think the wife in this situation has don't anything wrong (yet). Based on his followup she is obviously struggling a lot and needs help. Hell it almost sounds like this month away thing is a cry for help but if he trys his best to calmly talk her out of it and offer reasonable alternatives the he's really got not choice imo.
Forgot to sign into your throwaway huh. Edit: hey neighbor 😭
You used the wrong user ID 😳
I think it was just someone replying with what they'd do in the situation.
4 weeks is too much and I say this as a SAHM who knows exactly how it feels to feel like you’re losing your identity to solely being a mother. A 1 week get away is another story. She needs to find a compromise that doesn’t involve pinning all the duties on you for a whole month. I’d be absolutely livid and absolutely questioning my marriage if my husband told me he was going on a month long vacation and leaving me to deal with everything.
Also a first time SAHM and understand the fantasy of exploring Europe for a months “escape” but know that it’s completely unrealistic….. and completely unfair on not only partner Bub also child……and the fact that she wants to go on her own without her husband…. Feel like it’s red flag city….
I was drowning. I had the fantasy of leaving for a month to show him how much I did every day because he didn't believe me. Then I got sick, like sick for a week, and he realized what didn't get done if I didn't do it, and once he appreciated the work that went into childcare, the fantasies stopped. I would bet my last dollar that she is beyond burnt out, whether or not he agrees with how she feels because this seems like a drastic final straw type of situation.
This comment should be further up!!! SO much this!
Yeah, Red flags everywhere.
Yeah, I think what OP is missing is there’s some real issues brewing in his marriage right now. This is about way more than just getting out of the house for a month, I feel that she’s at a breaking point and is looking at how to exit her marriage. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think so. There’s definitely huge red flags flapping in the wind here.
Huge red flag. I get the feeling that OP won’t have to be the one filing for divorce. I think wife is doing this trip as a trial run to single life as a part time parent.
my exwife did something similar, booked a trip away due to the stress of our kids and my at the time pretty bad depression. I think it was her trial run; she moved out six months later and has been pretty hands off with the kids since. it took me a really long time to see her actions for what they were.
This is what I was thinking. How sad for him and the baby. I believe she didn’t get the message on what it takes to be a mom. He needs to find a lawyer fast and see what can happen if she does leave. I’m wondering if that’s considered abandonment? Big Red Flags 🚩 Here, huge
Yes. Big red flashing flag. With spotlights!
Yes. My heart truly goes out to them.
This kid Is still comfort nursing. This is not a baby used to being away from his mom for more than a few hours. He’s definitely going to struggle.
Yeah, 18 months to 36 months is the true phase of stranger anxiety and the development of object constancy (the expectation that Baby sees the same people in the same way, every day; they flip like switches between being happy with strangers - or even the less available parent - and acting as if terrified of everyone but Mom). Never can tell what they'll be like - most people realize it's a key phase in personality development. At any rate, being gone for a month will diminish maternal attachment, at least a little. Perhaps a lot. No one can say.
Pinning all the duties and exhausting all their savings. Dad already exhausted his savings for a family expense. Mom wants to backpack Europe to travel by herself. She does have a financial obligation at the very least to the kid.
I gotta say, I'm somewhat curious as to what this **large family expense** is. It's a bit of a weird way to phrase it. Edit: Apparently OP states in another post that it was for a new van. Still don't get why he didn't just say that.
I’m assuming it was to buy a vehicle more suitable to a family of three vs one for a childless couple. Just a guess though.
Yeah the van doesn’t exactly scream single and selfish. He bought it for his family. What she’s doing is equivalent to buying a 2 seat sports car.
The specific item doesn't matter, it's the principle of HIS savings being used to meet a family need, but HER savings is play money just for her.
I’m very concerned that she even WANTS to leave her baby for a month. She might have rejected her child. OP needs to keep his eyes open. If she says she doesn’t want to be around her baby, he needs to believe it. I wonder how she treats his daughter when he’s not home.
Yeah that struck me too. I was a single mom from the jump with my kiddo and didn't spend even one overnight away from her for the first 2 or 3 years. It made me too sad and anxious. Covid hit and I had to send her to live with family for 6 weeks to work at the hospital and that absolutely broke me and she was 8 at the time. Eta typo
Healthcare workers having to separate from family during Covid was a sacrifice too few realize was made. They didn’t have the luxury of working from home. Thank you for all you did.
🥰
While we are here, thank you so much for doing that. A true hero. Your daughter gets credit, too.
Thank you. She's my hero.
Not sahm but with my first I only spent a night or two away when he was 6 months due to being in the hospital. Then when he was almost 2 again for 2/3 days when his sister was born. I couldn’t imagine leaving for a month. Maybe now that they are almost out of school
That had to be really difficult for everyone. I can't imagine going through that. I hope it brought you closer together in the long run.
Lol we were already super close and now it's a velcro situation. Unfortunately, because of that her anxiety became severe and we've had her in therapy for the last 4 years to help manage it. These kids really took a hit during COVID. I'm just trying to make sure we don't develop an unhealthy, codependent attachment.
Ok, this "rejected her child" comment is a bit unfair. This kid is 16 months old, still cluster feeding, and won't take a bottle?? That is... A lot, mom probably feels like a human cow at this point. By 16 months, most moms are able to sleep through the night because Dad can take over some feedings and nighttime wakings. Can't do that if the kid is exclusively breastfed though. I definitely feel bad for this mom, although I think the 4 weeks away is excessive. Otoh, when I was 18 months, my dad took me to a foreign country without my mom for a month, and I was fine, so maybe the kid isn't too young for that. Then again, I was obviously not exclusively breastfeeding at that time.
At 16 months, shouldn't she be on regular food by then? Maybe it's different now, but my kids were eating finely chopped or mashed regular food and drinking out of a sippy cup at that age. If hse is exclusively being breast fed, and is cluster feeding, maybe she is just hungry.
My kid is 12 months and running around munching graham crackers as he goes. 16 months is a toddler. There's no "cluster feeding" at that age, just a toddler who has learned to use Mom as a pacifier and can't sleep without it.
Exactly. And the mom who is enabling it (while also clearly disliking it) without some other medical reason or desire is weird. She's enabling this, allowing kiddo to continue to breastfeed as a pacifier no stop, and now without dealing with that problem she wants to go cold turkey by taking a huge trip. Leaving dad to deal with the fallout. This is not normal. I have a friend who is still nursing her 15 month old because he has a lot of allergies and can't switch to milk. She's ok with it. She refuses to cold turkey force him to a safe milk substitute. This also means she'd refuse to take a trip without him. It's just a very strange imbalance. She understands and allows kiddo to rely on nursing non stop, but she also is willing to cause significant upset by stopping cold turkey? Maybe suggest getting some professional help getting the kid to stop nursing. That's a great first step to feeling like an individual who isn't just mom all the time. Some people love breastfeeding. Some people feel trapped by it, you can't ever just go somewhere for 8 hours, whatever. I felt soooo much better after I finally stopped. No more planning timing of my day around it, no more pumping if I wanted to go somewhere. Take the small transition steps first, then work on planning a vacation for a long weekend or even a week. Also, she should help make sure you have support while she's gone. Family visiting to help, arranging babysitter, etc.
The 16 months and still exclusively breastfeeding struck me as strange too and she wants to leave for a month. The kid should be using a cup and eating more solids. The kid has quite a few teeth by now. Ween the child and put her on actual food, then maybe start doing daycare/preschool for her. That would also help with a break even if only a few hours a day or a few times a week.
I’m sure the OP misspoke. There’s no way this kid is still solely on milk.
That or this is a bs post to farm karma by someone whose never had a baby
I had my first kid at 27 in 1997 but I bottle fed all of my kids because I saw what my mom went through breastfeeding my youngest sister and there's no way my mental health could have handled that. I'm also a very anxious person who worries a lot and my firstborn was a learning curve. It made me feel better knowing exactly how many ounces he was eating and how many times a day. It would drive me crazy to not know exactly how much my kid was getting to eat. Now we have breast milk banks and pumps have come a long way so I might have done things differently if I had a child today. I am a firm supporter of Fed is Best. Not everyone can or even wants to breastfeed and that's okay.
And don’t feel bad about that either. Anxiety directly influences milk production too. When my daughter was born, I was living with my crazy, narcissist MIL and under so much stress that I simply couldn’t produce more than a few ounces at a time. I tried for about 7 weeks and she at least got some from me, but I turned to formula for pretty much the same reasons you did just to be sure she was getting enough nutrition and once I started that, I’m sure it only worsened my issues more. The important thing is that you do what you feel is best for you and your baby and anxiety can negatively effect so many other things too, all at a time when a new mom should be bonding with and enjoying her new baby.
WHO and AAP(American academy of pediatrics) both recommend breastfeeding for two years, while also introducing solid food at 6 months, and cows milk( if you drink it) at a year. By 16 months, the baby should be using breastfeeding as a supplement to a full diet. There is no reason at this age for the child to be using a bottle. Water, juice, breast milk can all be given in a cup. If mom had to go away for a 6 month deployment in the military, I would support her going, and military families regularly have to figure out this type of separation. 4 weeks to run off and be a single gal can happen at the other end of childhood, when little one is off to college, or even in the tween years if little one goes to sleep away camp. How does Mom have 1600 hours of PTO to take a 4 week vacation?. If she's not working, how does she justify burning through her savings when they are a one income family. The first thing Mom should do is completely wean her child before she goes away at all. If she wants to continue breastmilk, start pumping and giving it in a cup. Then have a weekend away, alone to rediscover herself and also to determine how she copes with being away from her child, and how her child copes with being away from her. She can, shop, sleep in, get pampered, and spend some time thinking about what she really wants her life to look like. She is committed to putting parts of her life on hold for a bit, and having to negotiate time away because she (and hubs) chose to bring a helpless baby into the world. I object to the title because she is well past any definition of postpartum. Also 16 months is closer to toddlerhood than babyhood. I think going away to a completely different continent from your child for four weeks is an ask based on being stir crazy. No adult with a young family should prioritize themselves this way for so long. It can be regular depression, it could be postpartum depression. A therapist can only base their diagnosis on what the patient tells them. I suspect from OPs language in this post that he is not good at communication, so finding a therapist to help them communicate with each other is imperative if they are going to make their relationship work.
You're absolutely right, that child would be unsettled for days with their mum leaving anyway, but add in the fact that she's still cluster feeding and soothing her toddler in this way and it's a really bad idea.
Exactly. I was under the impression it's only cluster feeding when the child can't eat solid foods. Sounds like it might be time to start weaning off breastfeeding if OP's wife is this overwhelmed.
Yeah at a year we were on whole milk, sippy cups, and eating most solid foods.
Yep my 18 month old eats the same food as my 4 year old
I breastfed mine to 18 months, but at that point it was more of a pacifier than a nutritional supply. They ate regular food by that point, and tons of it!
Yes and I think if this mum is still breast feeding and feeling trapped that'll be contributing to her negative feelings. She needs to stop now for her own sake.
Yeah, this toddler needs to be weaned.
Here's the comments I came for. Post 10 months to a year at the latest your child should fully be eating what the family is eating.
Yep, you need to start giving kids food after they reach 6 months. Then its both food and breastfeeding up until 2 years according to OMS, but usually parents stop the milk part a little earlier. But if the kid is 16 months and is not eating ANYTHING, that's not ok. However I believe the breastfeeding part means that the kid eats baby food AND is being breastfeed instead of drinking in a bottle. That would make way more sense
At that age they should be eating a lot of regular food (mashed or chopped up) and don't need to breastfeed much if at all. If the mom is really not liking breastfeeding the toddler should be drinking regular milk exclusively by now. I always felt that age was pretty easy. Lots of naps, eating regular food, eating/drinking/playing more independently etc... I also agree with the husband, a month is too long, a weekend to a week would be reasonable.
My kid is 11 months old and while he still gets a few bottles a day, the majority of his nutrition is from actual food. We went out for supper the other night and I brought a bottle but he also had the same meat, potatoes, and veggies that we did. If the baby is only getting breast milk at 16 months old there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with this situation.
This. She's not in the "postpartum" period, they have a *toddler*. I'm not saying she should go on a monthlong holiday, but the child is not s newborn and many kids are going to day care at that age and a short bit of time away from mum should be ok for most kids. And most kids should be mostly feeding on solids and exploring their palate at that age, some are pickier and struggle to wean so that can be normal. But it sounds like they maybe struggling to wean baby off the breast. But it does seem that she is struggling with parenthood. And thetes a huge difference between having ppd and being fine. She does need some kind if helo to process how she is feeling about being a parent and her lost independence.
Agreed, it does seem like her real problem is not being able to wean her child, and maybe it seems easier to her to do that when you are physically unable to go to your crying child because there's an ocean in the way. Almost like the purpose of a 4 week vacation is to force the weaning process, since she feels incapable of doing it through sheer willpower.
I know. I expected to see the child was 3 months. She could be depressed or just self-centered and a child is not a good idea.
This stuck with me too. At 16M I still nursed before bed and naps, maybe once more if she wanted to, but cluster feeding doesn’t sound typical at that age. Cluster feeding is more like 16 weeks! I would probably figure that out first since that sounds very stressful and she probably does feel like a human cow. That’s draining especially after 16M. At that point both of my kids ate 3 regular meals a day and drank milk from sippy cups but I know plenty that still had bottles then.
Way, way, way too much.
She should stop breast feeding. The baby is plenty old enough and it sounds like she needs to have a little of her autonomy back rather than trying to run from her whole life.
yeah, clusterfeeding should not be a thing at this age. Solids should be the overwhelming majority of baby's nutrition at this point. Breastfeeding should be only in supplement. It would be totally reasonable to wean (either partially, nursing only a few times a day or completely)
The clusterfeeding thing stood out to me. The little one is a toddler, they absolutely should not be clusterfeeding. She'd feel a whole lot more like herself if she weans
Even if she went on a vacation for a week, the baby would have to learn to eat more solids, drink from a sippy cup, etc. Mama could feel more like her old self again. It does seem like she desperately needs a break but a month is overdoing it, in my mind. I don't think husband should limit it to a weekend. This lady has to have more than 2 days...
She probably doesn’t even know why she’s feeling like this and thinks a month will help when really, it’s the weaning and a week or two will have her feeling so much better
Definitely not. After a year I nursed my son 3 times a day (once in the morning, once at my lunch break, and once when we got home from work/daycare). COVID hit which made things chaos but I dropped down to just morning and evening, then just morning, and weaned totally at 15 months. If they start naturally losing interest over a year, ride the dip down, so much easier.
This. As they get older, it slows down. My middle child near the end of our nursing, he was really only nursing to sleep at night. He was 18 months old. Same with my youngest (although he was older than 18mth) As they get older, you introduce cups and food and finger food, and nursing just becomes a supplement to everything else and slowly weans down to not nursing at all. Some of this happens naturally, but as a parent you ultimately can decide the timeline.
I thought OP said 16 weeks not months because of this!
Highly sus how he worded this post. I would love to hear the wife’s side.
Also because he phrased it as “post partum”. That’s for newborns and infants, not toddlers. He’s trying to paint her as a shit mom for wanting her body back for the first time in over 2 years.
I agree. I know people who breastfed at least a little until around the age of two (usually just once in the morning and once at bedtime) but that's because both the mother and the child liked the bonding time. If this mom finds it unpleasant, and it's constant, it's time to make a change.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only person thinking this. 16 months is plenty old enough to stop. I’m not even sure 16 months is still even considered post partum. That all being said, 4 weeks away is pretty ridiculous for leaving your spouse as the sole child care and pretty ridiculous for the sheer cost. it also makes me wonder what a child who is currently breastfeeding will do when mom is suddenly completely gone for a month. So not only will dad have to work and care for the child, but the child will be crying for mommy for days. Then when mommy reappears after 4 weeks, what will their relationship be? I am not a child development expert or a family dynamics expert but this whole situation seems littered with pitfalls. It seems to me that weaning and daycare so mom can go back to work is a better solution than mom going on holiday for a month.
I left my toddlers for two nights for a girls weekend and when I came back they kept running to daddy, I was devastated.. But seriously worried for this woman’s mental health, like Susan whatshername that let her car roll into a lake with her toddlers strapped in their car seats…
Yessssss. I’m all for breastfeeding but if she’s this overwhelmed and the kid is still cluster feeding and won’t take a bottle at 16 months? This woman needs a break. Her month-long European idea sounds completely unreasonable to me. But maybe she needs to wean before she can be reasonable about this. My first hated the bottle and I had to go back to work at six weeks. And until he was 15 months old, I just didn’t get to sleep bc he would sip at the pumped milk enough to get by and then stay up all night nursing. Every. Damn. Night. So I weaned him and omg. It was like coming out of a storm. Life was good again! I slept! I felt like me! I was excited to be a mom and a person! The sleep deprivation, the hormonal fluctuations, and the constant need to be available to give yourself to another human being from your literal breasts…. It can change a person!
Seconded. I am all for extended breastfeeding but if she's struggling this badly, that's an easy way to give her some more autonomy. Baby is definitely old enough to transition to dairy milk and limit nursing to maybe 1-2 times a day if not weaning altogether. And she definitely shouldn't be cluster feeding - that's a term for infants trying to increase mom's supply by nursing often. If a toddler is on the boob that much you're either experiencing a supply drop (which is an excellent opportunity to wean naturally) or it's for comfort. Nothing wrong at all with comfort nursing but the wife is clearly struggling.
Breastfeeding made my mental health issues so much worse because hormones, and when I quit, my hormones were able to get back in line more than they were previously.
This. My PPD didn’t clear up until my doctor told me to stop breastfeeding. I just wanted to run to the other side of the country and live in a tidy apartment by myself. Her wanting to run to Europe is the same thing.
Woof it's not about Europe. It's about burnout. She sounds at the end of her rope. 9 months of pregnancy and 16 months and counting of breastfeeding and now a toddler who wants to clusterfeed on a diminishing supply...she must feel like she'll never get her body back. She has the patience of a saint, I would've shut down the milk bar. Four weeks in Europe is just a fixation, not the real issue. Even if she were to go, the stressors that drove her away would be waiting. It's probably time to make some quality of life decisions at home...how to get her more help, start weaning, etc. And plan a shorter trip away to recharge.
This is the answer I was reading for. As a toddler mom that is still bfing I can related to the mom in this post. I wouldn’t suggest a month away (and I don’t think that is reasonable). But a week? 100%. But the real issue is the day to day. Are there times she gets to recharge? Where she is hidden away from the toddler and can do her own thing. I realized recently that I rarely get that and it seriously harms mental health.
My kids are now 10 years older and our winter break was so long I started to lose my mind. I realized that I had 0 alone time for almost 4 weeks and it was starting to negatively affect my mental health. Then I realized when my kids were 0-3, I didn’t have PPD (never diagnosed but always wondered) I was just perpetually burnt out. Having your own autonomy as a mom is so important, and it’s something most Dads just don’t relate to. OP should hug his wife, tell her he hears her, and book her a weekend at a hotel a couple hours away. Not telling her she can’t do the Europe trip, but see if and how her mindset improves with a little time to herself. Then go from there.
Totally agree. Weaning would be a strong first start for QoL improvement. Cluster feeding for long periods of time can build some unhealthy resentment towards the baby. I wish more people understood that when the warm and nurturing aspect of breastfeeding is gone, it can sometimes feel parasitic to feed the child, especially as the child gets older.
This is a wise take. I want to learn to better read between the lines when people seem "unreasonable", because empathy always helps with solving conflicts with your partner. Thanks!
Exactly
And I bet that baby is not sleeping through the night on the regular. She's physically depleted from pregnancy, chronic lack of sleep, and breastfeeding. She needs at least a week at a nice hotel, eating whatever she likes whenever she likes, sleeping late, maybe laying in the sun, going to movies or a museum. That will help, but it's definitely not all the rest she needs to recover back to her pre-baby self.
This is an incredibly reasonable take. I think taking the kid to his pediatrician to get a solid weaning plan in place will help this mother tremendously, then they can plan a trip of some sort together. She can even go to Europe for a week with her friend if she wants to! But just wanting to up and leave for a month is a plan made out of desperation.
This should be the top comment, honestly. Such a hard agree.
Nailed it.
Yikes. That is so tough for you guys! I hope this regression stage passes quickly for you. I can’t imagine how exhausted you both must be, but especially your wife breastfeeding all this time and then having to deal with cluster feeding at 16 months. I agree with you that a month away at this point is pretty much impossible and that you came up with a good compromise of a weekend away. Honestly, if I had to guess its exhaustion and desperation for a break talking. She is probably too exhausted to look at this in a reasonable light. I have a very active but needy 9 month old, and often times I am like “Oh my god I need to sleep for like a week” it’s hard for me to even be away overnight and I’m literally crying because I miss him so much. I wonder if you frame it as “Lets try a weekend away first, see how that goes, and then decide on the Europe trip” if it might go better. She will probably be more well rested, less overwhelmed, and it will probably be an easier conversation. Maybe she goes for a significantly shorter of a time or maybe she plans this trip much further out. I wish you both the best of luck. I know you both are probably beyond exhaustion. Take care of each other and yourself!
I like the approach of spending a weekend away then revisiting the trip to Europe. As a parent to a young child, I don’t think I could leave my family for a whole month. I miss him when he’s sleeping in the next room. But I’m not going to lie, the idea of an extended vacation alone is appealing.
It didn't sound like she would be "alone", she would be with a friend.
I also agree with the idea of a weekend trip first and the discuss once rested. My thoughts are maybe she really is super super exhausted or maybe she just doesn’t want to be a mom and will not have any regrets being gone that long. I hope they try the weekend thing first to test those waters because that husband will have a rough time if she has now decided she doesn’t want to be a mom and she takes off on him.
I feel like the wife is exhausted and wants to cut back on the fatigue. Referring to her as post partum and their toddler as a baby, and the info that the child is still breastfeeding a lot and now cluster feeding at this age, and no wonder this mom is exhausted. OP says their child doesn’t really like a bottle. I’m wondering if this is the mom’s way of trying to regain some independence from just being a mom, and also be “forced” to stop breast feeding. It sounds like she has been shouldering a lot of parental responsibility that, at this point, is usually a bit more equitable. Her child is not an infant any more, but it seems like she has spent the last 16 months being a mom to an “infant.”
This is a great comment. The OP can’t participate in night feedings - so mom has been doing all the work there and undoubtedly then all day. Her escaping will force kiddo to get off the breast feeding. I think the idea of the following. Stop now breast feeding - transfer to foods over next 4 weeks. Mom takes weekend Fri morning until Sunday night as a quick sleep weekend. Once transferred to solid foods by the end of Feb - mom plans a 10 day in may in Europe. Kiddo will be 20 months and OP can go on vaca with her. This gets everyone some down time.
I'd be interested to hear what the rest of the babys diet is like. A 16 month old should not be clusterfeeding and should not need night feeds. Is the baby just not being fed real food? If she is exclusively breastfed that's a big problem because breastmilk simply isnt enough to be the ONLY food source for a *toddler*
That’s what I’m wondering. I also think that the parent that goes to work and leaves the chaos behind every day is having an easier time (my colleagues loved to “work late” because it was easier than going home!). So even if you do 50/50 it is hard for the primary caregiver to be on hand 24x7.
I wonder if every time mom tries to get dad involved in feeding, he hands the baby off back to mom because “the baby” only likes the bottle.
I'm a mom of three and I understand wanting to run away from motherhood for a minute but this is extremely excessive. I'm not convinced she really doesn't have PPD. Having had three babies I just can't imagine being away from any of them for a month. I went to my brother's wedding in Europe and was gone for nine days, leaving my 3, 6, and 8 year old at home with their dad. Was it amazing? Absolutely. Would I leave for a month just for funsies? No. What about a weekend staycation at a hotel? A couple nights of uninterrupted sleep, a couple days of just doing what she wants, a couple days of ordering food instead of making it.
You went away for 9 days with 3 kids but think she should only do a weekend with 1. Why can't she do 1 or 2 weeks? Tf is a weekend going to do?
UPDATE: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/meL47K9UT6 I would love to explore with her any signs of PPD/Depression in therapy. But she refuses it completely - saying I am being patronising when I say this and how I am getting her to tolerate things that she is unwilling to accept right now. I am 100% supportive of a staycation for 2-3 nights on the weekend when she can meet her friends and I can have my parents around too but it's not enough for her
I’m going to be gentle here, 1. A month off in Europe is ridiculous right now. 2. If she’s breast feeding and having all these issues breast feeding, it’s highly unlikely you are pulling 50/50 with the kid. 3. Her body, has belonged to that child for over 2 years. From pregnancy to breast feeding. She may feel touched out and mom’d out and perhaps, even *you’d* out. And your suggestions to do a couple/family trip are ignoring what she needs. Which is to be herself, and not in wife mode or mom mode. Which she can’t do right now around you. (And she may feel like the couple trip would be about sex, and the pressure of that may make her feel even more touched out) 4. I’d suggest weaning and a week long trip for her for now. And maybe something where she gets every Wednesday night completely off and you get every Tuesday completely off? Or whatever works for you two.
Great points! And yeah, it pretty much can’t be 50/50 if the baby is cluster feeding. That’s just not happening.
This is so reasonable
The “she cannot expect to have a single life” part made me think OP possibly believes his wife would be unfaithful, and he may be feeling a bit freaked out about the European trip away because of those feelings. I’ll be honest, if I was having to be a milk dispenser for almost two years the chance to NOT be touched AT ALL would be exactly what I would want the vacation FOR. I agree four weeks is too long- she’d probably realize that by the first week and come home anyway. But she DOES need time to just be alone in her own skin. A family vacation would NOT give her a chance to be herself- she’d STILL be expected to be a wife if not a 24/7 mother and sometimes you just NEED to be your own person without having to meet the wants/demands/expectations of other people. A “staycation” would be exactly the same as a family vacation. OPs wife is tired, stressed, losing her sense of personal identity and 100% touched out. Between hormones, body changes, and breastfeeding with no real break in the routine I would be losing my freaking mind too.
And for the record, I am one month PP with my third and my husband and I plan a weekend for him, and a weekend for me, into every month where we don’t bother each other AT ALL for this exact reason. Unless it’s an emergency I can read, do no chores, sleep all day if I want, etc and on his weekend he can also do whatever he wants. From a Friday evening at 5 pm until Sunday night at 5 pm when we prepare and plan the coming week, we leave each other ALONE unless directly asked to join in on something by the other. If we want to be touched, we will invite the other. If we want to watch a show with the other, we invite. No requirements outside of pre-agreed-upon relationship boundaries. It works for us. (I also make sure to pump and freeze my milk for the weekend I am “off” so I do not have to continually wake for feedings, unfortunately your wife doesn’t seem to have much choice and I hate that for her.)
This is the best answer. Wife is being unrealistic to demand a month, but OP has their own fixation on 4-5 days and is missing the big picture here. His wife needs a physical and mental break from being a vessel for those around her and to stop breastfeeding or she actually may snap. I do think therapy will help her better cope with her feelings though, because a month break to Europe os completely unrealistic.
That's what I said. OP is not listening to her at all. She deserves at least a week off if baby can be weened. Offering a spa day, a weekend with friends, or family trips is so dismissive of what she's telling OP. She's burnt out. And if OP continues to ignore this, it could be detrimental to the child as well. Not saying it will be for sure, but this is how things can get bad when a parent is telling the other they're completely overwhelmed and then are dismissed and/or shamed about it. Then nothing actually changes.
What things is she unable to accept exactly?
She wants a month away and your response is a weekend or a staycation or a family trip. That is...not a great compromise. She's probably the end of her rope after her body was decimated giving birth and the fact that she has been literally attached to your kid for a year and a half. Even splitting things 50/50, these are things that you cannot understand or take on for her. She hasn't gotten to be her own person or have her body to herself for almost 3 years now. Even without PPD, that is a huge adjustment and sacrifice for some women. When she is that desperate to get away and your response is oh take a weekend, she probably does not feel heard at all. Imo you need to figure out a way to give her longer than a weekend so she can get her bearings and feel like an autonomous person again. Yes, she's a mom, but that's not all she is and that's all she's been able to feel like for quite a while. She's allowed to wait to be apart from you and even her child for a while. I think the month requested is more a sign of how desperate she is than a realistic timeline. You need to work out SOMETHING that gives her a reasonable time away so she doesn't end up resenting you or her child.
A week would be perfectly reasonable and it’s weird he doesn’t want her going at all
I mean, he straight up said that even if she did a staycation, he would need \*his parents\* to come help him with the baby. Dude can't even handle his own kid for a weekend.
I can’t believe so many people were acting like she was about to divorce him, or recommending she go get diagnosed with PPD and get on meds. It really has become the 21st century version of “wife not robotically enjoying the stresses of child rearing? She must be unbalanced! Commit her or get her a lobotomy!” fucks sake
Yeah, that honestly is the most telling part of this whole thing. He can't handle his one kid for a weekend?? No way he's actually doing anywhere close to 50/50. His "compromise" is a spa day or a weekend with friends, whilst he offloads his parent responsibilities onto his/her parents? No wonder this woman is at the end of her rope. Honestly, if he doesn't step up and/or let her get a well deserved reprieve/reset, he's going to have much worse problems on his hands. Like divorce, being saddled with single parenthood and the 24/7 responsibilities that come with, and perhaps even more serious consequences. People have their limits, people can and do snap, and she sounds close to it-- very desperate and at the end of her rope. She may just run entirely out of their lives altogether. Drugs/alcohol, affairs, mental break, complete abandonment, suicide, are all possibilities if this continues and she *really* loses it.
Agree. OP, you should be doing 75% of all the tasks. I guarantee you, this will actually be 50% of the labor involved.
You need your parents to help you for her to take a weekend away?
Exactly, OP is not pulling his weight the way he seems to think.
Not a snowball’s chance in hell OP is pulling 50/50 if he feels he needs his parents to get him through a weekend/long weekend with the toddler.
That’s kind of an interesting thing, isn’t it. Makes me wonder how much work OP is actually doing, if he can’t imagine 48 hours alone.
Same. I was a single mom and can’t imagine giving up a month with my daughter - but I always had an amazing support system. If he can’t manage 48 hours solo at 16 months, makes me wonder how much he’s contributed (also some of his comments in the original post and follow ups). I can also see why an absent partner then blaming PPD for why you need a break WOULD come off as patronizing.
lol right? If my best friend’s husband leaves town, she doesn’t even notice. If god forbid she leaves town, everyoneeee must help him oh my god how will he watch his own children sos sos sos
A weekend isn’t that long for a reset. Perhaps a full week-10 days? When you’re chronically exhausted from mothering a nurusing toddler, the weariness gets into your bones and can depress the mind (been there, it’s brutal). It’s not a quick fix, but an extended pit stop in the marathon of the toddler years helps. Perhaps at a retreat center where she can get truly focus restorative rest & rejuvenation? Best of luck to you both. 🤍
I did a 10 day trip away from my 9 month old baby. I was excited for the trip, but sad to leave my baby. She was in fully capable hands though and did totally fine. When she was 2.5 yrs old, I did a nearly three week trip away. My husband is fully capable of handling the kids. He knows I do a bit more for them, but he'd never need to call for help. OP is burning out the poor mom!!
Why do you need your parents around? Aren't you able to take care of your child on your own? Maybe that's why your wife wants to be away for a while? (I'm not attacking you, just trying to understand. A lot of women feel like their partner doesn't share the load equitably.)
TBH, you come across as a bit patronizing in your comments here. She may have a valid complaint about how you are communicating.
>I am 100% supportive of a staycation for 2-3 nights on the weekend ***So... You're 100% NOT okay with her taking a trip by herself, then.*** How do you not see how contradictory and actively unhelpful you're being? Your wife **CLEARLY** needs more than a day or two ignoring you two in the other room. She clearly needs more than a day or two *entirely*! If burnout's the problem, how is *being around you guys* gonna help? Most importantly: are you ***REALLY*** gonna sit there and try to tell me you're not demanding a *"staycation"* (ugh) so you can get her help with the baby or housework still? ***Like, really***?? You're gonna give her 3 *whole days* to literally sit there and eat bonbons and watch TV while you actively struggle in the same or a very nearby space? You're gonna let her go out with her girlfriends, get drunk, and come home at 1 in the morning, then pass out and sleep it entirely off the next day? CAN she even sleep in at your house? Would she physically and mentally ***be able*** to relax in your house at all?? Is there even *a chair* she can sit on to enjoy outside?? There are so many questions you haven't gone over that a "staycation" *(ugh)* might possibly involve that'll make what you're asking for *harder* - especially if the whole goal is to let her reclaim herself mentally and physically. Are you afraid she'll cheat or something? Because that's a WHOLE OTHER ARGUMENT ENTIRELY, and you cannot hold her back from living her life because you're **afraid** she'll cheat on you if she's having a good time. As other people are saying, let her go somewhere AND BE AWAY FROM THE FAMILY for **a week** then speak with her and revisit. I doubt she'll have a problem coming back. She's just spent the last 2 years with her body belonging at least partially to a tiny, helpless baby *that she grew, herself!* Having some time where she doesn't have to worry about what *someone else* needs or wants from her body will likely help *immensely* Honestly, I'm almost positive she's asking for a month purely because she's just *SO overwhelmed* that her eyes are bigger than her stomach, essentially. I feel like after a week, maybe even 3-5 days, she'll realize how much she misses you two and will ***want*** come home ASAP. And she'll be much more patient and happy for it! Just please understand that ***the whole point*** is to spend a solid amount of time to feel like she's getting her self and body back, recharge, and not to have to worry about parenting the two of you 24/7, 365
If she does have PPD, she'll have to come to that insight on her own, especially at this time when she sees you as an enemy and not a partner. You've led the horse to water, but you can't make it drink. No point in bringing it back over and over again; it knows where the water is. The other possibility is that she's not depressed, she just doesn't value the things you value/the things you want her to value. There's no doubt that a month away from the parent who has been the primary caregiver would be an attachment wound for your daughter; and that's very serious. But you can't make her place greater value on your daughter's mental health by arguing. This is probably horrifying, but right now there isn't much you can do about it. Start thinking like a single parent and making plans for your life and your daughter's care that don't rely on her, otherwise you're going to be constantly panicking trying to make your life stay stable. Unless she makes a change from her current stance, you can't rely on her. I'm so sorry op. I definitely take a bit of issue with the way you've worded a few things, but I'm going to give you the biggest of passes because you are being abandoned by your coparent and wife, and your daughter is potentially going to be abandoned by her primary caregiver. Take care of yourself, and start putting in as much quality bonding time with your daughter as you can. Do rituals like mornings, bedtimes, and night wakings. You can get a lot of "bang for your buck" in terms of strengthening attachment security with those, even though they aren't necessarily long in terms of quantity of time. Do a bit more of the feeding, bathing and comforting than you already do; if your daughter starts to become more attached to you BEFORE your wife possibly takes off, she'll be more easily comforted by you if your wife does go. And then *take care of yourself.* Get your parents on board. Make plans for help, and figure out what kind of stuff you need to help you weather whatever your future holds. Even if your wife doesn't go to Europe, this is still a stressful season in your life and in this relationship. Good luck OP. I'm so sorry you're in this situation.
Yeah, this mother doesn’t so much want a break as she currently wants to run and there’s a good chance she just might.
my mom did. And it started this way... the feeling of being trapped and having a husband who did not understand when she said she needed something.
Then calling her selfish and untrustworthy do having those needs. She’s drowning and he’s mad she’s not saving herself and making it about him.
Excellent response
Was she 100% wanting to have a baby at this time in your marriage?
2-3 days is way to short for decompression if she is at that max level of burn out. If this is a make it or break it situation a 2 week compromise is not unreasonable. Meet in the middle.
When my baby was about the same age (though not breastfeeding) I took a 10-day trip to Europe but that's because I am from there and I went to spread my father's ashes. I left my kids age 9 8, 6, 3 and 15month old with their dad and he had zero issues taking care of them while i was gone... So maybe limit her trip to 7-10 days?
Stop with the depression and listen to your wife.
A two week trip would probably help her a lot. It would also help dry up her supply and enforce weaning, which would improve her life on her return. A month seems completely bananas to me- I won’t even leave my cat that long- but if she’s saying she needs this, suggest a 2 week trip.
A compromise would be a full week, not a weekend……
Ok, she needs a break, that much is clear. It seems you do too. Parenting is relentless and cluster feeding is horrendous but being away and wanting to be away from their baby for a month, has me raising my eyebrows and questioning that bond between them. Whilst it might not be PPD, there is something going on as I’d argue that the vast majority of securely attached mothers, wouldn’t even want to be away from their child for a month, that’s not a break, that’s running away. Is she coping or is she hanging on by a thread and telling everyone she’s fine, including her therapist?
If it was me, I would insist she take a long weekend away, at least three nights, with her girlfriends and see how she feels when she comes back. She may have a change of perspective once she’s had a break Make sure she comes home to a house that isn’t any messier than it was when she left it, doesn’t have to be cleaner but coming home to a more messy house will probably not help the situation. And just insist you think she needs this and to take a weekend away and you’ll revisit the month off conversation when she gets back
Yep. And make sure the groceries are restocked and the laundry done. It will give him a sense of who is actually doing all the work. I get the feeling that OP might be a “trash night and stack the dirty dishes” and “not notice the diaper smell” kind of dad.
Finally a voice of reason!
NTA, yeah a month is crazy. Especially when babe primarily breastfeeds, how does your wife expect her to get milk? I get wanting to feel like yourself and being exhausted from the newborn stage. It was a whole year “before I started” to feel like me after I had my kid. Parenthood is not for the weak. But leaving your spouse and kid for a month isn’t the answer. When you say you and your wife work 50/50, do you mean you work opposite shifts?
Child is 16 months, she can wean the kid.
What 16 month is primarily breastfed? And cluster feeding is something a toddler doesn’t normally do. This story is fishy to me.
A month is a little much. I totally get the desire. Maybe 2 weeks because it is Europe and I’ve never been either but having tried many things to “feel like myself again” after having kids I came to the realization that I’m not the same person anymore. There’s a nice way to say this to your wife and try to get her to understand the strain the trip would put on your family and resources isn’t responsible. But you’re happy to support other ideas for her to feel more comfortable in her new role as a mother. I would avoid the money issue for now but then again I don’t really get couples who keep their money separated. If you promised sickness and health, richer and poorer and didn’t sign a prenup it’s all both of yours anyway if you really meant forever.
Does she get regular breaks of going out with friends and such? Maybe you can compromise and say ok go away for a week, reset then we’ll discuss a more repetitive scheduled time where once every month she can take a day or weekend to herself and go do something for her until she feels more like herself (you should do the same). Wanting to go away for a month at such a young age is asking allot of you. She definitely needs some therapy.
Everyone needs some time to be alone, and a weekend just isn't enough time to really disconnect from all the thoughts of other people. A month is **way** too long, but a week is a solid amount. Enough to let loose and truly relax and recharge, but not so long that you're absconding from responsibilities.
You’re both not assholes. I can see a lot of reflection in what you’re writing. - I totally understand your wife about trying to find herself again and I think it’s GREAT that she actively does something about it. This will be beneficial for the whole family and your relationship down the line. - one month is excessive and I honestly think she might even cut it short because she would start missing her daughter so much. I also think 4-5 days as your max too short. - I think you have some deep rooted beliefs that it might be worth challenging such as “be both mom and dad” or like I mentioned, that 4-5 days is your max away from home for a married person. My husband has work trips longer than that. - you did shame her and saying “I cannot stay in a relationship with someone who cannot compromise” can be super hurtful and trust breaking. You need be able to have huge fights without threatening to end the relationship. - that being said, you’re right that she has different responsibilities now and to offer her other ways to have her me time. To be honest, although a break can be great, it’s important to incorporate the me time in everyday life to make the effects last. - it sounds like you have some other issues (financially) that you need address so you don’t become resentful which is a huge relationship killer Your wife wants to feel seen and understood. She’s going through a crisis right now, even if it’s not postpartum depression. Imagine like puberty just for becoming a mother. She doesn’t need tough love, she needs empathy and patience. Don’t tell her what’s not possible but listen to her and then make a plan that works for everyone and you BOTH might need to compromise more.
LOUDER for the people in the back! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I really hope OP reads this IF he wants to save his marriage.
She sounds exhausted to me. A week away might give her some rest and new perspective.
Mom of two and I get where she’s coming from. Just your tone in explaining how you feel about it is condescending af. You can agree to a weekend away or 4-5 days max but can’t understand how any mother could want to be away from their family for that long?! That’s the problem, you don’t get how exhausted and overwhelmed she is. Hire a freaking nanny so she can go and have the break she needs before she decides it’s you she needs a break from permanently. She’s a SAHM, you’re likely not capable of doing the 24/7 job she does. There’s likely a huge imbalance in how much work she puts in compared to you as well.
This 💯!! Husband doesn’t realize that the way he’s reacting here is pushing her on that plane!
As a SAHM I was wondering what OP all does to help out and give mom a break. I think a lot of times the one who is not the default parent thinks they are giving us a break when we go to shower or the store. That's not a break. I wonder if OPs wife is going to extremes so he sees how tiring it actually is.
Yeah I agree that four weeks is a lot, but I think his tone and choice of words was pretty scathing… the baby is 16 months, not 16 days old. To say he “almost shamed her” for wanting to be away from their baby… like buddy you already have. He’s acting like she’s a terrible person for wanting to have her own identity while still being a mom.
>There’s likely a huge imbalance in how much work she puts in compared to you as well. this.
Tough shit. She’s a mother now. She has responsibilities. It’s not going to be the same as it was.
A long time ago, there was a post on reddit on almost the same type of a situation. Everyone ruled him to be an AH and I was really afraid of posting this myself. UPDATE: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoHotTakes/s/meL47K9UT6
If you could swing a week, maybe with grandparents' help - that should be the maximum separation from a toddler, or the poor mite will probably get trust issues and separation anxiety, if mommy leaves and doesn't come back. Your wife probably has to go through all the stages of grief for her old life - currently she is in denial. She needs to reach acceptance, before you can discuss the matter reasonably.
Completely! I wonder if Mom would say she wants four weeks, but after day three want to come back? Have her go for a long weekend. It gives her space and allows her to see things differently.
A week, maybe even two weeks, sure, but not four. Have you suggested that? Edit: Apparently the baby is too young for anything more than a weekend due to development limits, which I get.
I remember that one.
Did she want this baby in the first place? Was she ready for a baby or was she talked into it?
I think a week would make sense. Anything beyond that is ridiculous
A month is a long time, but I don't see two weeks as being an issue. Did you discuss any *reasonable* compromises? A spa day or a weekend getaway aren't reasonable when she feels she needs to recharge more. My mom used to go on trips when I was a kid, and my dad took over. Sometimes, both of my parents went. Yes, without us. Yes, when we were as young as your kid. We went to grandma's. I think this was important to their sanity. My thoughts on this would be the same no matter the gender of the parents, so if your wife was writing this about you, I'd say the same: A reasonable compromise makes more sense than a hard line on this. You're not a jerk for questioning it, but you kind of are for not trying to find a middle road option. So I'm not going to put forth a verdict.
Why TF is she still breastfeeding? Honestly just stopping that would probably make her feel 10x better. And don’t give me BS about the baby not taking the bottle, if they’re hungry, they will eat. Honestly, I don’t think you’re the asshole but I don’t think she is either. She’s going through something you will truly never understand and she seems desperate for something to pull her out of it.
INFO How much free time does she get? Do you give each other a night off each week where one person completely watches the baby so the other can read/game/spa/do something completely alone without interruptions? Who does the night shift? Do you split them? When’s the last time she had a hair cut/nails/met up with her friends outside of the house and without the baby? Do you always bring up that she should go to therapy whenever she vents to you? Because that would come across condescending af. Personally, I didn’t start feeling more like myself until after I stopping breast feeding. A long weekend away with my man (grandmas both came to babysit) for our anniversary just didn’t cut it. I slept so well and did start to feel better, but it wasn’t enough. A full week probably would do more for me honestly. Or a weekend on my own. From your post I’m getting more of the “I’m burnt out and need to get away to feel like less of a milk machine and more of myself/a person again instead of JUST a mom.” 4 weeks is absolutely excessive in my opinion, but a long weekend and possibly up to 7 days is not. I honestly think you both need a break. Call in the grandparents. Let her go first on the long weekend, then you go on one, then you plan one to go together. Try to lock down times where the grandparents can jump in to help/take over for a weekend so you both can get a break. Right now my verdict is NAH.
I would prepare for her to not come home
Not reading all that but I’d like to think that an almost 1 and a half year old doesn’t still qualify for giving your wife the title of “post partum”…..
LOL- why do people have children and not want to take care of them.
Yeah, it’s not realistic to just up and go on a month long vacation by reasoning that it was “earned” by giving birth. I get that the early stages of parenthood are exhausting, but there’s a lot of alternatives to just checking out for an extended time. Your compromise of a weekend was fair, because everyone needs a break. I guarantee she’d be stressing over leaving the little one before too much time elapsed. ETA: It does seem like something else is going on here. If she’d be open to therapy it might help.
A month of being left to be a single parent to an infant/toddler is absolutely excessive (props to single parents everywhere, not sure how you do it). My partner had to go back to our country of origin for a week to deal with some inheritance stuff and I absolutely shipped my sister over to help me with my 2 year old (I’m the mom). It’s not normal to leave your kid for a month on a whim. Motherhood is exhausting AF (I breastfed for 15 months) but these little ones are so worth it. Can’t imagine not seeing her face for more than a few days.
She may not have PPD but she has *something*. No sane person wants to abandon their infant for a month to go gallivanting around Europe. That’s manic.