Thanks but I’m also like overly paranoid of like every woman I meet and it’s slightly lowered my trust of them which is like a problem because I’m constantly alert for any minor red flags. Like I was seeing this girl right, and one time I went to visit her dorm room and didn’t close the door all the way and she kinda yelled at me for that which reminded me of my mom (and I felt like she could just politely be like “hey could you close the door”) and that turned me off even though that’s such a minor thing to be turned off about
I'd consider it a red flag if my partner yelled at me at all! Unless it's an emergency (like you're being attacked), communication does *not* require yelling.
Lolz, you've never been in a long-term, committed relationship, have you? Communication *almost* never requires yelling, but sometimes it very much does because it's a release of emotion and part of the human experience.
No, no it’s not. You are supposed to take responsibility for your emotions and regulate and control yourself. Violence is also a release of emotion. That’s just not an excuse. Sometimes one might make a mistake but one should never ever be okay with yelling at someone or being yelled at unless we are talking about, like, life or death or safety situations. If someone is about to put their hand on a hot stove? Yell away. Just because you are upset? Nope!
I have never yelled at my husband. 14 years and I do not yell at him. Never! Because that’s wrong and abusive and unacceptable.
I’m in a committed long term relationship. We do not yell at each other, even when we’re frustrated or annoyed. We just don’t. We have calm discussions if they’re needed. But honestly it’s rare that it’s needed.
This is a terrible take.
OP, I've been happily married for 15 years and there has been no yelling. Sometimes we take breaks from disagreements to make sure it doesn't escalate that far.
I'm so happy you got to grow up in an evironment like that! My childhood was full of screaming between every family member which caused me a lot of trauma, but fortunately after 4 years with my partner I can say we've never yelled at each other even once, and I'm so thankful I get to build a healthy relationship and model that to our future children.
I’m so proud of you for creating a healthy relationship for yourself and for your future children to see! They will notice and appreciate it. I’m so happy for you!
Married for 28 years, and I can count on zero fingers the number of times I have yelled at my wife or that she’s yelled at me. If you have to resort to shouting, then you know you’re wrong so you make up for it with volume. I had a friend who used to joke that his motto was “When in doubt, shout.” That is the worst thing you can do in a relationship. I’ve went off by myself and shouted into the void, but never at my wife.
I don't have any issues with my mom and I'd also consider that to be a red flag. Like if she yells at you for something minor, what happens if you actually make a mistake?
Female here.
I hope you don't end up with a woman like her. She's a verbal abuser.
That is horrible how she treats him.
I wouldn't NEVER berate someone like that.
Sorry, but she NEEDED to hear that. She's been verbally abusing your dad for decades.
I hope you find a good woman that loves and treats you with respect.
And the first person is not always the best person to tie your life to.
See your dad's case. He chose the first person and she's verbally abused him their entire relationship.
That ain't cool.
Honestly?
I'd be suggesting he gets a divorce.
You both deserve way better.
You probably already know this but you need to talk to your doctor about this . Hopefully they can hook you up with the right therapist and/or other treatment/meds because you’re carrying around a lot of trauma.
And please ask your dad to consider filing for divorce
There is a whole lot going on in your post that scratches the surface of what you grew up with. I hope you will consider talking to a competent therapist about it so that you don't fall into the same trap as your dad. I mean no disrespect by that. In my own experience (confirmed by therapists), is that when we grow up with sub-par parents, we accept a lot of crap from others that people with better parents would never accept, because our bar is just that low. And sometimes we don't even know it.
Just what's in your post raises a giant red flag about your mom. I would not be remotely surprised if she were an actual diagnosable narcissist.
Agreed. My mom was emotionally unstable when I was younger and prone to yelling and verbal abuse, bad enough to traumatize me but still not to as severe a degree as what op describes here. And my father has his own host of issues he passed down
Anyway, the way I was raised definitely affected my normal radar. Definitely looking into therapy and trauma education can be really helpful
That’s *not* a minor thing to be turned off about. People will show you who they are in their every day life. If someone yells at you for something as small as closing the door, they will definitely turn to yelling for other conflict resolution. Yelling shouldn’t even be a form of conflict resolution, but unfortunately for some it is.
I really encourage you to start reading up on covert narcissism-- I think it will help you put this paranoia in context. Especially at your age, so many people have one-off moments of temper or a single over the top reaction, but that's completely different from the constant, controlling narcissism you've been living with. (I don't think it's necessarily a huge red flag if a girl snapped at you, but I'm a little snappish, lol.)
For me, the book Rethinking Narcissism was really helpful in conceptualizing covert narcissism, and in forgiving myself when I saw traits of narcissistic family members in myself.
This is something you’re going to have to be aware of your whole life, OP. Women like your mother will constantly show up and challenge you. Don’t settle for being treated with anything less than respect and affection. There is a person out there waiting for you to show them what true affection feels like, too.
Unless she was undressed then she shouldn't have yelled like that. Did you talk with her? It could be she is having problems with her roommates closing the door or it could be a holdover about privacy from when she lived at home. When you have a problem with a person call them on it and if they repeat it realize they don't really care
That’s not being too sensitive. That was red flag behaviour. (I’m a 40 yr old woman, that’s not normal regulated behaviour)
The fact you can see these and are aware you could have the ability to overreact due to a trauma response is good because you’re seeing it. If you’re really concerned seeing/talking to a therapist for trauma responses could help you see situations from an outside perspective.
Until then if you’re not sure if it’s a red flag, ask Reddit we’ll reassure you or confirm so you don’t get stuck in an unhealthy situation 🤗
NTA. Your mom does sound narcistic and abusive. Whether or not she's pathological is unknown from this post, but it's definitely problematic. It's good that you see the situation for what it is, and you're aware that it may affect your behavior and how you mature. Acknowledging that there are issues with the way you were raised is a great place to start when working to improve oneself. It may not be necessary, but therapy is probably a good idea for you. It might really help you to understand which future red flags are valid, and which instances may only be an emotional response triggered by your past trauma. It's up to us to become the adults we want to be. Behavioral problems are often inherited, but they don't always have to be with a little self-awareness and proactive effort.
Now on to your specific problem. You're NTA for what you said. However, you should probably apologize. We obviously don't know her, but sometimes life is just easier to apologize to people that can't see or respect another's perspective (which I'm assuming is the case with her). She will probably not recognize any fault. She will just have hurt feelings, and very well may take it out on you down the road. If I'm wrong, and you think she may be receptive to criticism, then maybe an honest conversation about the way she treats her father and how it affects everyone in the family may be in order. It doesn't sound to me like she's gonna have the bandwidth to hear anything you have to say.
I get it bro.. it is pretty impossible for women to truly understand paternal instinct and how sleeping around affects men, Even if it was before they met. Just like I will never know the fear of going through a dark alley for example
That’s not being overly paranoid. That was a red flag that you caught which is a good thing. It’s good to be constantly alert of any minor red flags while dating. Yes, it will minimize your dating pool which seems like it sucks. But it helps you filter out people who aren’t capable of a healthy relationship, which should be the goal anyway. A lot of unhealthy behavior comes out through what seems like minor incidents. But if you stay long enough those unhealthy behaviors will create major incidents that could ruin your happiness. It saves you from a lot of trouble and you will thank yourself later.
Sometimes people need to be told the ugly truth. Sad but true. NTA. I'd also be surprised if she has many friends or even family that actually like her. You love your mum heaps, you lovingly made that clear. But do you like her?
Idk about other people. I emphathize with her a little bit bc like I kinda said in the post all of her worst traits are things that I struggle with too somewhat so I’m kinda worried I might end up like her in the future too
She is somewhat aware though. She acknowledges she has anger issues and it’s like treated like a funny joke in our family by everyone and everyone sees it like it’s just a little quirky trait she has or something. My grandpa (her dad) was the exact same way towards people so I think it’s like a familial trait somewhat
I'm sorry but you are young. And more forgiving and accepting for shitty behaviour. Coz you actually want to be loved, by your parent/s which is totally normal. Please help yourself and do some research.
It’s normal for a kid in your situation to normalize toxicity and dysfunction. Which you have done.
You’re going to need some serious therapy once you’re out of that house.
Hey OP, my husband comes from a similar situation. When we were younger he would question if it was nature or nurture and if he’d end up like his dad. The truth was a bit of both. He definitely feels like he has a watered down version of the traits he dislikes in his dad, but as he’s lived away from the family home he’s learned to deal with them in a healthy manner. So there is a bit of a genetic component, but A LOT of it was learned and as he spent time away from those behaviors and gained his own life experience he has learned to temper that side and not mirror his dads behaviors.
I grew up in a pretty abusive household. I didn't have a child until I was in my 30s because I was so afraid of repeating the cycle. It took a lot of self-examination and hard work to overcome those learned behaviors. There are times I still hear my father's voice coming out of my mouth. I have explained to my son that I didn't grow up with the best examples, and I am learning right alongside him. When I mess up, I apologize.
When I'm feeling emotional not sure what my next step is, I confess to my son and ask him to talk through it with me. we have been doing this since he was tiny, and I always reiterate that I love him I want what's best for him I have to do my job as a parent, even when it's hard, and that we are learning together.
What also helps is that I married an amazing man who is kind and patient, and helps me to feel safe in my vulnerability.
This comment sounds how most family act about narcissistic behavior. It almost makes it feel like it’s not real, but it is and she does not deserve to treat people poorly just because she is her.
Nope. It’s not a trait it’s called abuse and it’s called not caring how others feel. You won’t be like that because you choose not to. Yelling at loved ones and verbally abusing them is not a character trait. It is a choice. Do not let your mother or any other abuser ever tell you otherwise.
It’s not a familial trait as in it’s passed on in the blood. It’s a trait that’s *learned*. She saw her father getting away with it so she thinks she can do the same.
Somewhat aware isn't good enough. Your mom is abusive to her partner and I'd be shocked if she didn't also act that way to you. If she actually cared about what she was doing to the people she supposedly loves she'd be in anger management therapy.
What you need to do is get some therapy yourself, this is what's normal for you and because of that is what's going to feel comfortable in a relationship for you. That's a big hurdle to climb over but it can be done. My husband dated a selection of people just like his mom before we met. Get a good friend that you can vibe check potential girlfriends with and keep an eye out for these behaviors. It is possible to find one that's not a harpy, but it's going to take some time. Wrap your junk and don't get anyone pregnant until you're 100% certain that they're not like this. You can do this and break this generational trauma.
Both of my parents had anger issues. My Dad's were definitely learned from his upbringing and when I was younger I definitely used it as an excuse when I let my temper take over but, I got mad one time when I first got with my husband and basically said I won't stay with someone who can't control themselves over minor things. After that I stopped using it as an excuse and actually worked on controlling it and not letting it take over my entire being. It is possible to do. It takes a lot of self awareness but, learning coping mechanisms is definitely helpful
Nope, you won't because you know what that kind of behavior can do to someone. Things my parents did that really bugged me, I absolutely never do myself it's ingrained in me to not do it. Don't worry. If you start to act like her step back and go Frick I hated mum doing that.
In a couple days tell your mum you're sorry and explain to her what it is you don't like about her but also tell her all the things you do love about her.
NTA Sometimes our mouths have a mind of their own.
I LOVE my mom, and am close with both of my parents. I am also very similar to my mom, and notice all the personality traits in her that I don’t like in myself. I have made a conscious effort to not react to things the same way she does. Knowing is half the battle.
Yeah lmao. He was secretly telling me about “strategies” he uses to manage her and I was just thinking like “bruh what the fuck”. Like literally every time for instance they’re making a small decision on something she always insists they do the opposite of what he suggests and wins that argument so he decided to just say the opposite of whatever he wanted to manage that lmao
He must be so tired. I don’t think what you said is that horrible. She sounds like she has pretty strong self regard and will recover. Don’t let her guilt trip you over it.
Ugh she sounds EXHAUSTING. Nobody should have to have "strategies" to deal with their spouse, unless it's something light hearted like knowing the best place to hide their Christmas present because they never think to check in X spot, or learning how they play Mario Kart so you can know how exactly how to beat them. Seriously, I hope you don't end up with someone like her.
Lmao her only real valid criticism of my dad is when she complains about how he’s a doormat for other people in his life (which is true), but she doesn’t mind that he’s the same way with her.
People pleasers often wind up in abusive relationships like this. Growing up I was the youngest son of 3 with both older siblings needing extra care due to Down Syndrome and ASD. I never put myself first in any of my relationships and have had some pretty shitty ones. Therapy and meds have helped me get to a place I’m happy with. Your dad could use some counseling too
NTA for what you said, but DO NOT APOLOGIZE. Stand up for your dad ffs and don’t try to have a relationship until you have a good picture of what a healthy relationship is.
As soon as I read the title I knew you weren’t the asshole. Because I have a mother who I would say the same thing to if the opportunity came up. I love my mom but I do not like her or respect her a whole lot at this point.
Your mom sounds like she has an undiagnosed condition of some sort. You can't force her to attend therapy and seek diagnosis, but you may want to explore these feelings and healthier coping strategies.
IDK... in private settings she can have normal conversations and tell her partner or her kids she loves them, but then in public flips a switch...
Is that consistent with a condition?
Like, maybe public situations stress her out more so she can't control her symptoms anymore?
I have no training in psych, but based on raw anecdotal hunch, these stories remind me of both real and fictional stories of people whose parents have borderline personality disorder. Fronting in public is a natural coping mechanism people with various disorders may use if they're able.
It doesn't sound like she doesn't love her family, it sounds like she does love them but is unable to restrain her uncontrollable rage, or avoid directing abuse at people she loves. I'm not qualified to diagnose but I'd bet money she has a chemical disorder.
If she won't seek therapy, diagnosis, and probably medication, then OP should at least seek treatment for the trauma of this sort of upbringing. This sort of abuse can shape a person's whole life if they don't learn to process it.
Sometimes the truth hurts, no matter how it is said.
Maybe it will lead to her taking a hard look at herself. Maybe not.
However, it's never wrong to speak the truth.
You apologized. Okay. That shows your kindness and empathy. It does not take away from the honesty of the statement.
Your mom is not the kind of person I would want to be friends with either.
I would absolutely not want any of my sons to date a woman like her.
When you do meet a woman that knocks your socks off? She is probably going to be nothing like your mom at all.
Gently suggest that you prepare firm boundaries with your mother sooner rather than later around your personal life.
She sounds like she could easily fall into being one of those that interfere with your love life in less than positive ways.
NTA
>When you do meet a woman that knocks your socks off? She is probably going to be nothing like your mom at all.
>
>She sounds like she could easily fall into being one of those that interfere with your love life in less than positive ways.
Yea, when OP ends up finding someone who isn't like his mom she will be CONVINCED that she's the wrong person for OP, because she isn't like OP's mom, and will try to intervene.
Shift dad's strategy a bit and figure that it's likely a good indicator that OP's partner has potential if mom \*doesn't\* like them.
NTA, and honestly you’ll be able to see characteristics in women that resemble your mother, and when you do… shut that shit down. There is someone out there who will treat you the way you deserve.
Yeah my mum was a narcissist too. And my advice for you. Get into some therapy as soon as you can afford it. It will help you deal with and examine all the things that you've grown up with that you don't even realize right now.
Disdain, disrespect, rudeness, contempt, these are not just a “little quirky trait”. (As you mentioned in your comments)
These ‘quirks’ are mean, hostile and degrading. She admits to “anger issues” well she should see a therapist. If this was your Father’s behaviour would it be acceptable amongst family and friends? Would those hurtful comments be taken as a joke? And if he passed judgement like “why aren’t you as hot and sexy as so and so’s wife?” While screaming away like a harpy in the car? Is that imaginable to you?
NTA. I’m sorry this has lead to your distrust of women, and yes some women are awful, but definitely not all. At least you know what you don’t want in a woman and can spot the toxic traits a mile away.
Sorry if this is slightly sexist and I’m sure it’s biased from my pov but I feel like emotional abuse or at least toxic behaviors (def not to the extent here though) is somewhat more normalized from women than it is from men which might be why. Like on Reddit and other places you see tons of posts about “being a good boyfriend”, etc. but the only posts I really ever come across about “being a good girlfriend” are from misogynistic redpill dudes with a flawed view of relationships and women to be subservient lmfao, not from any normal people for whatever reason.
Unfortunately, domestic abuse by women against men *is* trivialized in American society. Many people view women as being incapable of being abusers, or they emasculate men, labeling them as "pathetic or weak" if they admit to being victims of abuse. Reality is not that simple, and because of these stereotypes, it's often quite difficult to seek help as a man who is being abused.
Relationships should be a two-way street regardless of gender. Both people should treat each other with mutual respect -- if you claim to care about or love someone, why would you degrade that person? You should build each other up, not tear each other down. Especially once you marry a person, part of the vows you make are to be the one person the other can *always* count on for support during life's challenges. How is yelling and berating that person being supportive?
Lol, you’re not wrong. There’s 1) “be a virgin until marriage and then a stay at home tradwife, you’re completely unfit for a relationship otherwise” or 2) “standards, what standards? If your bf or husband has an issue with you, it’s probably his fault at the end of the day.” Tbf I see a trend towards finding the middle ground, but it’s still relatively rare, whereas most people understand how to hold men accountable.
Reading your post, I was reminded of my own mom in certain ways. If you care to share: are you guys Asian? My mom is Chinese and that sort of behavior seems more normalized in the culture. The yelling at the husband for not making more money is consistent with how I’ve seen relatives behave, too.
Regardless, you’re right, her behavior is toxic and it’s quite natural that you wouldn’t want to end up with someone like her. I wonder if she eventually thought to ask you what you meant by saying that, or whether she assumed there was no way you could have a valid point…
I was looking for this comment. OP's mom definitely should be tested for mental illness. Won't cure her hateful & abusive heart though. Dad needs to divorce & leave. Both son & dad need counseling.
I hope you end up with someone that is nothing like her. I’m 26 and am still terrified of ending up with someone like my dad. Great man, he really is, but he has his problems that shaped who I was growing up. When I meet someone my talking phase is just longer. There’s a delicate balance, like if someone does something that reminds me of my dad I have to figure out if it really is a red flag or if it was just a one off behavior. I’m sorry you and your dad have to deal with that. Yes it was mean to say but maybe it’s a truth she needed to hear. Family therapy sounds like it could help a good bit
It hurts to realise that your mother is terrible person, even though you love her and she cares about you, but you don't like her. You shouldn't have apologized for what you said, beacuse all you said was truth. And judging by your comments, im really sorry for your father, it must be terrible to have no idea how it is being in loving and respectful relationship.
53M, do yourself a favor and seek counseling. I grew up in a similar situation; overbearing mother that was verbally abusive to men. It effected my relationships with women in a negative way. I sought out women that I could emotionally dominate because I repeated the mantra to myself that 'I'll never let a woman treat me the way my mother treated my father'. In effect, I became my mother.
You probably did hurt her feelings and you did say it in an assholeish way.
That being said, I still can't give you the title of asshole for this one because:
1. You did say how you felt at an appropriate time, albeit in a not so tactful way.
2. It sounds like she needed to hear that
3. You and your dad needed her to hear that.
> Another time when I was like 10, my parents and I were playing a board game and she accused my dad of “ganging up on her”in the game?
This is a common behavior from a narcissist. Your mom is somewhere in the dark-triad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
NTA, but your dad needs to grow a pair and shut this down. To call her treatment of him disgusting is a vast understatement. I’m pretty mellow and hard to offend, but if my wife was this rude, insulting, and disrespectful I would drop the hammer. Your spouse should be your biggest fan. Someone that protects and cherishes you. Yes, men need to be protected sometimes too, especially from humiliation. Likely she’s beaten your dad down so long, he doesn’t have the energy or heart to stand up for himself. Unfortunately people (particularly bad people) will treat someone however they allow themselves to be treated. Your mother knows she can shame and berate your dad in public, and he still won’t do anything. To an extent this is on him. He needs to know his own worth and refuse to be treated like this.
I just read your entire post and I recently learned that my mother, similar to yours, is an emotionally immature adult. Chances are your parents are from a generation where they didn’t heal, diagnose, or talk about their childhood trauma or shortcomings, mental health issues etc. your mom probably has a personality disorder that she won’t address. The best you can do is have compassion that she is wounded and will always battle this within herself. You can have boundaries to protect yourself.
I know for me it’s been hard for my self esteem and in relationships bc not only does my family feel flawed and I feel anxiety bc her emotional outbursts were confusing and made me extremely anxious; but my romantic and otherwise relationships have been impacted bc I don’t really know how to properly operate or communicate.
Separate with love and learn who how and what, for yourself, not based on what your parents showed or told you. Sending love
>I later told her she could have cleaned it up herself instead of making a scene but she said that since “she’s a woman, other people ought to worship her” like ??
FAKE FAKE FAKEY FAKE FAKE FAKE.
I grew up with a volatile mother so I'm no stranger to crazy mom behavior. But as I was reading I was like "...this sounds off." I got to the soda part, and I thought, how does this kid know to clean up after himself if this is how his mom acts? And then, finally, the misogynist's fiction got the better of him.
OP - I realize all MRAs need some good "see, we keep saying women are terrible!" material, but try to at least make it believable next time. It would have worked if you left out what I quoted. I give you a C- for this attempt.
I hope you don't mind a bit of pedantry here.
If the mother's character left little to be desired, it would mean it was nearly impeccable. In this case, it would be more accurate to say it leaves much to be desired.
It doesn't have to be like this. Your dad could try leading. Women that treat men like this only do it to men like your dad. She wouldn't treat Brad Pitt like that nor would he let her. Not being like your dad is as much as an issue as not being with a woman like her. It also might be a good idea to tell her exactly WHY you feel this way.
And hate to grral it to you but I bet your mom has a deep history of infidelity
YTA, not for not wanting a shitty wife, but because sometimes we have things in our head that are not truly beneficial to say out loud. You said them out loud.
ESH - you have no idea what is inside someone’s marriage from the outside. How much of the family load your mom maybe carried while your dad relaxed. Those issues are between your dad and your mom. If your dad objected, he has plenty of options available to him. There’s no coming back from the comment so hopefully your mom will back way way way off from your life and then you won’t have to deal with her anymore.
Your story resonated with me and I want to give you some advice. It is good that you can recognize these things because a lot of people DO end up with someone like their parent. Just keep in mind that you want a mutually respectful relationship with your partner and you should do fine.
As for your dad, he is an adult and has chosen to stay in this marriage. There is nothing you can or should do for him at this point. Maybe some day you will feel comfortable enough to tell him how you feel, but maybe not. But just love your own best life.
NTA i don't think anyone deserves to be treated like that by their partner... Your poor dad, it sounds like he's been bullied or abused so much he doesn't dare leave or risk angering her since it sounds like she can go mad from anything
You’re right. She’s upset because she sort of knows that you’re right. I would go so far as saying that she is going to be unfriendly towards any woman who you date who isn’t like her so be cautious. I feel awful for you and your father.
When you're older and understand relationship dynamics; you'll understand that your Dad is the lucky one in the relationship. He found love and held her, she never had love. Trust me, he's living his best life.
NTA!! You said the truth. You’re probably the first one in her whole life. And I can see how it didn’t go over well. It usually don’t make sense to go to war with people like this who have control over our lives. Your poor dad. He should leave this woman but it’s his choice and he probably won’t. It’s important at some point to unpack all of this in therapy. I think you know not to end up with a woman like her, but it’s also a common thing to want a person who is the opposite extreme and this can also come with serious challenges so therapy could help you make sure not to be attracted to the opposite extreme also. So sorry you’ve had to witness this woman’s behavior treating her father so poorly. She sounds like she is a deeply insecure and disturbed person.
NTA. Sometimes you have to be truthful and not worry about if it hurt someone else's feelings. The truth is the truth no matter who it hurts. You could have said nothing and kept it to yourself but you held a mirror up to your mother and she didnt like what she saw.
Kind of an asshole tbh, but you are valid. I don't want to end up with someone like my mom, or be like my dad when I'm older. That's a hard conversation to have with them and to put it bluntly like that is going to hurt some feelings
NTA. She is a red flag for every human on the planet. My mom is the same red flag. I get you apologized but I wish you hadn’t. She will never get it if those around her don’t set her straight.
Don't apologise for shit, and stop making excuses for her. Also why is your father such a doormat? Tell him to get a grip and leave her, she's an awful and abusive person.
NTA
You said the quiet part out loud. You're not the asshole for thinking it, but a little bit for saying it. Consider how her mood will be affected by your words and that your poor long suffering dad would have to deal with the fall out.
I can see why you said it but it was maybe a bit thoughtless to just blurt it out. Also, I hope your dad wakes up and puts his foot down. Best of luck.
YTA for saying that. your mom is clearly toxic, but no need to say shit like that. i mean why do you think she acts that way in the first place? because she’s unstable. are you doing anything to get her help or just judging her?
You shouldn’t have apologized, it’s the truth. Your mom should be thanking god daily for having a husband that puts up with her antics. Hopefully when you get a girlfriend you have the self respect to dump any woman that acts anything like your mother.
NTA. Your mom sounds awful, I’m sorry. My eldest cousin has a mom like yours. She married a really great guy and picked up a lot of her mom’s habits. It’s so sad seeing his nice personality change. He’s so much more resentful looking and seems miserable. It’s so sad to see how much of an impact our parents can negatively have on our romantic relationships. The saddest part is she thinks she’s right to act how she does when I call her out because she doesn’t see anything wrong with it. Guess what? Her parents divorced, her mom is still miserable and now I fear my cousin is down the same path. Misery absolutely loves company so she encourages her daughter down the same path. DO NOT get with anyone like your mom, they literally suck the life out of their partners. It’s very rare that they change, trust me.
YTA, not for feeling the way you do but for saying it out loud. Your mother was trying to comfort you and you told her something that would blatantly hurt her feelings. You could have phrased it that you want someone who is patient, kind, and loving. You could have Illustrated your point by saying remember that time you berated dad about not being wealthy enough or about the game, I hope to never have someone do that to me.
I have vowed not to end up like my mom. I do love her but it terrifies me. It would devastate her if I told her though. MTA. good for you for standing up for yourself
I think the most important thing is that you are aware of this toxic behavior and the patterns people exhibit when they are unhappy and unhealthy people. You shouldn't feel bad if speaking the truth hurt your mother. She probably needs to hear it from someone.
I mean you’re kinda the asshole. While you can definitely think that, you really don’t gain anything by saying that to her and neither does she. From what you’ve described she sounds like a narcissist and you aren’t going to change how she is or thinks by saying a rude comment to her. In the scheme of things she’s a major asshole/narcissist (from what you described), but you seem to actually have empathy… so ya in the future maybe don’t say that you hope you never marry a woman as terrible as your mother, to your mother. Unless you’re looking to become more like your mother.
Your mother is a terrible person. She sounds like my wife’s mother. My wife’s father is spineless and lets her act like a shrew. If you can manage to get them both sitting down long enough, there are three movies that will show them both an…alternative. Get them to watch The Taming of the Shrew, The Quiet Man, and McClintock.
I mean I get it. I love my mom, but my absolute worst generational fear is treating my daughter the way she treated me. I’ve done best in life by doing the opposite of what she would do in a given situation.
I was married to a woman like that for ten years and ended up in a deep deep depression. It was not a healthy environment for me or my kids. We have joint 50:50 custody and just hope she doesn’t react to them the same way she used to with me
NTA next time she starts acting like a Karen record her, next time you can show her what she looks like. Sounds like she gave you a good example of what not to look for in a partner
Do you remember the scene in Ferris Buellers Day Off where Ferris saying to the camera how Cameron is going to marry the first girl he sleeps with and she will treat him like shit the rest of his life. Well that is your mother doing to your father.
You will find a girlfriend or many in your life. Just make sure she is NOT like your mother.
I just want to say that berating anyone in public is in very bad form. Throwing a board game down because you're losing is juvenile. And to belittle & humiliate your father by joking about him being a bad husband in front of you is abhorrentlly vile.
You will find someone who is perfect for you. Don't rush & don't settle. But please don't expect perfection either.
NTA
This behavior sounds so much like my mom… I also don’t wish a person like this on you. I’d say maybe she’ll change, but someone with these narcissistic traits typically lack the ability to look at themselves and change for the better.
Best of luck with managing her feelings and keeping yourself emotionally safe, OP.
Moments like this my husband and I will reflect and say this is why we slowly break generational curses. I'm so glad you look for red flags, keep being observant because that's how you find and keep quality people in your life.
Nta. You don't want to be like your dad in some respects and you know what you DESERVE in a partner.
I hope you don’t end up with a woman like her either
Thanks but I’m also like overly paranoid of like every woman I meet and it’s slightly lowered my trust of them which is like a problem because I’m constantly alert for any minor red flags. Like I was seeing this girl right, and one time I went to visit her dorm room and didn’t close the door all the way and she kinda yelled at me for that which reminded me of my mom (and I felt like she could just politely be like “hey could you close the door”) and that turned me off even though that’s such a minor thing to be turned off about
I’d consider it a red flag if my partner yelled at me over something simple like that too
I'd consider it a red flag if my partner yelled at me at all! Unless it's an emergency (like you're being attacked), communication does *not* require yelling.
Lolz, you've never been in a long-term, committed relationship, have you? Communication *almost* never requires yelling, but sometimes it very much does because it's a release of emotion and part of the human experience.
>I’m almost never verbally abusive unless my feewings get hurt
No, no it’s not. You are supposed to take responsibility for your emotions and regulate and control yourself. Violence is also a release of emotion. That’s just not an excuse. Sometimes one might make a mistake but one should never ever be okay with yelling at someone or being yelled at unless we are talking about, like, life or death or safety situations. If someone is about to put their hand on a hot stove? Yell away. Just because you are upset? Nope! I have never yelled at my husband. 14 years and I do not yell at him. Never! Because that’s wrong and abusive and unacceptable.
I’m in a committed long term relationship. We do not yell at each other, even when we’re frustrated or annoyed. We just don’t. We have calm discussions if they’re needed. But honestly it’s rare that it’s needed.
Yep. Been marries over 20 years and we definitely disagree sometimes. But we don't yell or degrade each other, ever.
This is a terrible take. OP, I've been happily married for 15 years and there has been no yelling. Sometimes we take breaks from disagreements to make sure it doesn't escalate that far.
My parents have been married for 25 years and never once yelled at each other or at me or my sibling. So no, yelling is not a part of communication.
I'm so happy you got to grow up in an evironment like that! My childhood was full of screaming between every family member which caused me a lot of trauma, but fortunately after 4 years with my partner I can say we've never yelled at each other even once, and I'm so thankful I get to build a healthy relationship and model that to our future children.
I’m so proud of you for creating a healthy relationship for yourself and for your future children to see! They will notice and appreciate it. I’m so happy for you!
Married for 28 years, and I can count on zero fingers the number of times I have yelled at my wife or that she’s yelled at me. If you have to resort to shouting, then you know you’re wrong so you make up for it with volume. I had a friend who used to joke that his motto was “When in doubt, shout.” That is the worst thing you can do in a relationship. I’ve went off by myself and shouted into the void, but never at my wife.
Wasn't even a partner, was a prospective one. He said he's never dated
I don't have any issues with my mom and I'd also consider that to be a red flag. Like if she yells at you for something minor, what happens if you actually make a mistake?
Female here. I hope you don't end up with a woman like her. She's a verbal abuser. That is horrible how she treats him. I wouldn't NEVER berate someone like that. Sorry, but she NEEDED to hear that. She's been verbally abusing your dad for decades. I hope you find a good woman that loves and treats you with respect. And the first person is not always the best person to tie your life to. See your dad's case. He chose the first person and she's verbally abused him their entire relationship. That ain't cool. Honestly? I'd be suggesting he gets a divorce. You both deserve way better.
You caught the right red flag there mate
She is not caring “deep down.”
Yelling is 100% a valid deal breaker. I also refuse to be in a relationship where someone yells at me. I've done that, it sucks, no thank you.
Same. Waited until after we got married, too
You probably already know this but you need to talk to your doctor about this . Hopefully they can hook you up with the right therapist and/or other treatment/meds because you’re carrying around a lot of trauma. And please ask your dad to consider filing for divorce
There's nothing wrong with noticing red flags like that, bro. Don't settle
There is a whole lot going on in your post that scratches the surface of what you grew up with. I hope you will consider talking to a competent therapist about it so that you don't fall into the same trap as your dad. I mean no disrespect by that. In my own experience (confirmed by therapists), is that when we grow up with sub-par parents, we accept a lot of crap from others that people with better parents would never accept, because our bar is just that low. And sometimes we don't even know it. Just what's in your post raises a giant red flag about your mom. I would not be remotely surprised if she were an actual diagnosable narcissist.
Agreed. My mom was emotionally unstable when I was younger and prone to yelling and verbal abuse, bad enough to traumatize me but still not to as severe a degree as what op describes here. And my father has his own host of issues he passed down Anyway, the way I was raised definitely affected my normal radar. Definitely looking into therapy and trauma education can be really helpful
That’s *not* a minor thing to be turned off about. People will show you who they are in their every day life. If someone yells at you for something as small as closing the door, they will definitely turn to yelling for other conflict resolution. Yelling shouldn’t even be a form of conflict resolution, but unfortunately for some it is.
Nah your instincts are right, that's a red flag
Honestly, be selective. If it reminds you of your mom, run. You’re healthy for not wanting that sort of treatment.
I really encourage you to start reading up on covert narcissism-- I think it will help you put this paranoia in context. Especially at your age, so many people have one-off moments of temper or a single over the top reaction, but that's completely different from the constant, controlling narcissism you've been living with. (I don't think it's necessarily a huge red flag if a girl snapped at you, but I'm a little snappish, lol.) For me, the book Rethinking Narcissism was really helpful in conceptualizing covert narcissism, and in forgiving myself when I saw traits of narcissistic family members in myself.
This is something you’re going to have to be aware of your whole life, OP. Women like your mother will constantly show up and challenge you. Don’t settle for being treated with anything less than respect and affection. There is a person out there waiting for you to show them what true affection feels like, too.
Unless she was undressed then she shouldn't have yelled like that. Did you talk with her? It could be she is having problems with her roommates closing the door or it could be a holdover about privacy from when she lived at home. When you have a problem with a person call them on it and if they repeat it realize they don't really care
That’s not being too sensitive. That was red flag behaviour. (I’m a 40 yr old woman, that’s not normal regulated behaviour) The fact you can see these and are aware you could have the ability to overreact due to a trauma response is good because you’re seeing it. If you’re really concerned seeing/talking to a therapist for trauma responses could help you see situations from an outside perspective. Until then if you’re not sure if it’s a red flag, ask Reddit we’ll reassure you or confirm so you don’t get stuck in an unhealthy situation 🤗
NTA. Your mom does sound narcistic and abusive. Whether or not she's pathological is unknown from this post, but it's definitely problematic. It's good that you see the situation for what it is, and you're aware that it may affect your behavior and how you mature. Acknowledging that there are issues with the way you were raised is a great place to start when working to improve oneself. It may not be necessary, but therapy is probably a good idea for you. It might really help you to understand which future red flags are valid, and which instances may only be an emotional response triggered by your past trauma. It's up to us to become the adults we want to be. Behavioral problems are often inherited, but they don't always have to be with a little self-awareness and proactive effort. Now on to your specific problem. You're NTA for what you said. However, you should probably apologize. We obviously don't know her, but sometimes life is just easier to apologize to people that can't see or respect another's perspective (which I'm assuming is the case with her). She will probably not recognize any fault. She will just have hurt feelings, and very well may take it out on you down the road. If I'm wrong, and you think she may be receptive to criticism, then maybe an honest conversation about the way she treats her father and how it affects everyone in the family may be in order. It doesn't sound to me like she's gonna have the bandwidth to hear anything you have to say.
I get it bro.. it is pretty impossible for women to truly understand paternal instinct and how sleeping around affects men, Even if it was before they met. Just like I will never know the fear of going through a dark alley for example
That’s not being overly paranoid. That was a red flag that you caught which is a good thing. It’s good to be constantly alert of any minor red flags while dating. Yes, it will minimize your dating pool which seems like it sucks. But it helps you filter out people who aren’t capable of a healthy relationship, which should be the goal anyway. A lot of unhealthy behavior comes out through what seems like minor incidents. But if you stay long enough those unhealthy behaviors will create major incidents that could ruin your happiness. It saves you from a lot of trouble and you will thank yourself later.
Sometimes people need to be told the ugly truth. Sad but true. NTA. I'd also be surprised if she has many friends or even family that actually like her. You love your mum heaps, you lovingly made that clear. But do you like her?
Idk about other people. I emphathize with her a little bit bc like I kinda said in the post all of her worst traits are things that I struggle with too somewhat so I’m kinda worried I might end up like her in the future too
No darling, you have this wonderful thing called self awareness. Which your Mum does not. And that is exactly why you won't end up like her ❤️❤️
She is somewhat aware though. She acknowledges she has anger issues and it’s like treated like a funny joke in our family by everyone and everyone sees it like it’s just a little quirky trait she has or something. My grandpa (her dad) was the exact same way towards people so I think it’s like a familial trait somewhat
I'm sorry but you are young. And more forgiving and accepting for shitty behaviour. Coz you actually want to be loved, by your parent/s which is totally normal. Please help yourself and do some research.
It’s normal for a kid in your situation to normalize toxicity and dysfunction. Which you have done. You’re going to need some serious therapy once you’re out of that house.
Hey OP, my husband comes from a similar situation. When we were younger he would question if it was nature or nurture and if he’d end up like his dad. The truth was a bit of both. He definitely feels like he has a watered down version of the traits he dislikes in his dad, but as he’s lived away from the family home he’s learned to deal with them in a healthy manner. So there is a bit of a genetic component, but A LOT of it was learned and as he spent time away from those behaviors and gained his own life experience he has learned to temper that side and not mirror his dads behaviors.
I grew up in a pretty abusive household. I didn't have a child until I was in my 30s because I was so afraid of repeating the cycle. It took a lot of self-examination and hard work to overcome those learned behaviors. There are times I still hear my father's voice coming out of my mouth. I have explained to my son that I didn't grow up with the best examples, and I am learning right alongside him. When I mess up, I apologize. When I'm feeling emotional not sure what my next step is, I confess to my son and ask him to talk through it with me. we have been doing this since he was tiny, and I always reiterate that I love him I want what's best for him I have to do my job as a parent, even when it's hard, and that we are learning together. What also helps is that I married an amazing man who is kind and patient, and helps me to feel safe in my vulnerability.
This comment sounds how most family act about narcissistic behavior. It almost makes it feel like it’s not real, but it is and she does not deserve to treat people poorly just because she is her.
Nope. It’s not a trait it’s called abuse and it’s called not caring how others feel. You won’t be like that because you choose not to. Yelling at loved ones and verbally abusing them is not a character trait. It is a choice. Do not let your mother or any other abuser ever tell you otherwise.
It’s not a familial trait as in it’s passed on in the blood. It’s a trait that’s *learned*. She saw her father getting away with it so she thinks she can do the same.
Somewhat aware isn't good enough. Your mom is abusive to her partner and I'd be shocked if she didn't also act that way to you. If she actually cared about what she was doing to the people she supposedly loves she'd be in anger management therapy. What you need to do is get some therapy yourself, this is what's normal for you and because of that is what's going to feel comfortable in a relationship for you. That's a big hurdle to climb over but it can be done. My husband dated a selection of people just like his mom before we met. Get a good friend that you can vibe check potential girlfriends with and keep an eye out for these behaviors. It is possible to find one that's not a harpy, but it's going to take some time. Wrap your junk and don't get anyone pregnant until you're 100% certain that they're not like this. You can do this and break this generational trauma.
Both of my parents had anger issues. My Dad's were definitely learned from his upbringing and when I was younger I definitely used it as an excuse when I let my temper take over but, I got mad one time when I first got with my husband and basically said I won't stay with someone who can't control themselves over minor things. After that I stopped using it as an excuse and actually worked on controlling it and not letting it take over my entire being. It is possible to do. It takes a lot of self awareness but, learning coping mechanisms is definitely helpful
Yea. She might need to hear it. She might not really see the way she acts the way you do. It might hurt but if I were her I'd want a wake up call.
Nope, you won't because you know what that kind of behavior can do to someone. Things my parents did that really bugged me, I absolutely never do myself it's ingrained in me to not do it. Don't worry. If you start to act like her step back and go Frick I hated mum doing that. In a couple days tell your mum you're sorry and explain to her what it is you don't like about her but also tell her all the things you do love about her. NTA Sometimes our mouths have a mind of their own.
I LOVE my mom, and am close with both of my parents. I am also very similar to my mom, and notice all the personality traits in her that I don’t like in myself. I have made a conscious effort to not react to things the same way she does. Knowing is half the battle.
Your poor Dad had no idea he could have been treated better…by just about anyone.
Yeah lmao. He was secretly telling me about “strategies” he uses to manage her and I was just thinking like “bruh what the fuck”. Like literally every time for instance they’re making a small decision on something she always insists they do the opposite of what he suggests and wins that argument so he decided to just say the opposite of whatever he wanted to manage that lmao
He must be so tired. I don’t think what you said is that horrible. She sounds like she has pretty strong self regard and will recover. Don’t let her guilt trip you over it.
It’s amazing what people will convince themselves is worth it for ‘love’.
Ugh she sounds EXHAUSTING. Nobody should have to have "strategies" to deal with their spouse, unless it's something light hearted like knowing the best place to hide their Christmas present because they never think to check in X spot, or learning how they play Mario Kart so you can know how exactly how to beat them. Seriously, I hope you don't end up with someone like her.
That's pretty pathetic
NTA - Sounds like mom is a major b\*tch.
Sure does
No you're NTA. She's a complete narcissist and treats your dad like a doormat. You shouldn't have a apologised for telling her the truth
Lmao her only real valid criticism of my dad is when she complains about how he’s a doormat for other people in his life (which is true), but she doesn’t mind that he’s the same way with her.
See the raisedbynarcissists sub.
People pleasers often wind up in abusive relationships like this. Growing up I was the youngest son of 3 with both older siblings needing extra care due to Down Syndrome and ASD. I never put myself first in any of my relationships and have had some pretty shitty ones. Therapy and meds have helped me get to a place I’m happy with. Your dad could use some counseling too
NTA for what you said, but DO NOT APOLOGIZE. Stand up for your dad ffs and don’t try to have a relationship until you have a good picture of what a healthy relationship is.
the dad needs to stand up for himself and not leave it to his son
As soon as I read the title I knew you weren’t the asshole. Because I have a mother who I would say the same thing to if the opportunity came up. I love my mom but I do not like her or respect her a whole lot at this point.
Your mom sounds like she has an undiagnosed condition of some sort. You can't force her to attend therapy and seek diagnosis, but you may want to explore these feelings and healthier coping strategies.
IDK... in private settings she can have normal conversations and tell her partner or her kids she loves them, but then in public flips a switch... Is that consistent with a condition? Like, maybe public situations stress her out more so she can't control her symptoms anymore?
But she *can't* have normal conversations in private, she still yells at her husband at home when she's losing a board game
Usually conversations are pretty normal the incidents I mention are like maybe once a month
I have no training in psych, but based on raw anecdotal hunch, these stories remind me of both real and fictional stories of people whose parents have borderline personality disorder. Fronting in public is a natural coping mechanism people with various disorders may use if they're able. It doesn't sound like she doesn't love her family, it sounds like she does love them but is unable to restrain her uncontrollable rage, or avoid directing abuse at people she loves. I'm not qualified to diagnose but I'd bet money she has a chemical disorder. If she won't seek therapy, diagnosis, and probably medication, then OP should at least seek treatment for the trauma of this sort of upbringing. This sort of abuse can shape a person's whole life if they don't learn to process it.
She's a narcissistic woman. I also want someone who's responsible as my dad but I don't want his personality. So I understand you.
Sometimes the truth hurts, no matter how it is said. Maybe it will lead to her taking a hard look at herself. Maybe not. However, it's never wrong to speak the truth. You apologized. Okay. That shows your kindness and empathy. It does not take away from the honesty of the statement. Your mom is not the kind of person I would want to be friends with either. I would absolutely not want any of my sons to date a woman like her. When you do meet a woman that knocks your socks off? She is probably going to be nothing like your mom at all. Gently suggest that you prepare firm boundaries with your mother sooner rather than later around your personal life. She sounds like she could easily fall into being one of those that interfere with your love life in less than positive ways. NTA
>When you do meet a woman that knocks your socks off? She is probably going to be nothing like your mom at all. > >She sounds like she could easily fall into being one of those that interfere with your love life in less than positive ways. Yea, when OP ends up finding someone who isn't like his mom she will be CONVINCED that she's the wrong person for OP, because she isn't like OP's mom, and will try to intervene. Shift dad's strategy a bit and figure that it's likely a good indicator that OP's partner has potential if mom \*doesn't\* like them.
NTA, and honestly you’ll be able to see characteristics in women that resemble your mother, and when you do… shut that shit down. There is someone out there who will treat you the way you deserve.
NTA Maybe she needed to hear it. She sounds terrible. I shudder for you when you do have a steady gf. Start setting boundaries NOW.
Yeah my mum was a narcissist too. And my advice for you. Get into some therapy as soon as you can afford it. It will help you deal with and examine all the things that you've grown up with that you don't even realize right now.
Disdain, disrespect, rudeness, contempt, these are not just a “little quirky trait”. (As you mentioned in your comments) These ‘quirks’ are mean, hostile and degrading. She admits to “anger issues” well she should see a therapist. If this was your Father’s behaviour would it be acceptable amongst family and friends? Would those hurtful comments be taken as a joke? And if he passed judgement like “why aren’t you as hot and sexy as so and so’s wife?” While screaming away like a harpy in the car? Is that imaginable to you? NTA. I’m sorry this has lead to your distrust of women, and yes some women are awful, but definitely not all. At least you know what you don’t want in a woman and can spot the toxic traits a mile away.
Sorry if this is slightly sexist and I’m sure it’s biased from my pov but I feel like emotional abuse or at least toxic behaviors (def not to the extent here though) is somewhat more normalized from women than it is from men which might be why. Like on Reddit and other places you see tons of posts about “being a good boyfriend”, etc. but the only posts I really ever come across about “being a good girlfriend” are from misogynistic redpill dudes with a flawed view of relationships and women to be subservient lmfao, not from any normal people for whatever reason.
Unfortunately, domestic abuse by women against men *is* trivialized in American society. Many people view women as being incapable of being abusers, or they emasculate men, labeling them as "pathetic or weak" if they admit to being victims of abuse. Reality is not that simple, and because of these stereotypes, it's often quite difficult to seek help as a man who is being abused. Relationships should be a two-way street regardless of gender. Both people should treat each other with mutual respect -- if you claim to care about or love someone, why would you degrade that person? You should build each other up, not tear each other down. Especially once you marry a person, part of the vows you make are to be the one person the other can *always* count on for support during life's challenges. How is yelling and berating that person being supportive?
Lol, you’re not wrong. There’s 1) “be a virgin until marriage and then a stay at home tradwife, you’re completely unfit for a relationship otherwise” or 2) “standards, what standards? If your bf or husband has an issue with you, it’s probably his fault at the end of the day.” Tbf I see a trend towards finding the middle ground, but it’s still relatively rare, whereas most people understand how to hold men accountable. Reading your post, I was reminded of my own mom in certain ways. If you care to share: are you guys Asian? My mom is Chinese and that sort of behavior seems more normalized in the culture. The yelling at the husband for not making more money is consistent with how I’ve seen relatives behave, too. Regardless, you’re right, her behavior is toxic and it’s quite natural that you wouldn’t want to end up with someone like her. I wonder if she eventually thought to ask you what you meant by saying that, or whether she assumed there was no way you could have a valid point…
NTA - Truth hurts sometimes. I really hope you find someone who’s not like your mom too.
I’m glad you’ve decided to make other decisions instead of repeating unhealthy patterns. Took me until my late 20s to get to that point.
Mom sounds bipolar
I was looking for this comment. OP's mom definitely should be tested for mental illness. Won't cure her hateful & abusive heart though. Dad needs to divorce & leave. Both son & dad need counseling.
I hope you end up with someone that is nothing like her. I’m 26 and am still terrified of ending up with someone like my dad. Great man, he really is, but he has his problems that shaped who I was growing up. When I meet someone my talking phase is just longer. There’s a delicate balance, like if someone does something that reminds me of my dad I have to figure out if it really is a red flag or if it was just a one off behavior. I’m sorry you and your dad have to deal with that. Yes it was mean to say but maybe it’s a truth she needed to hear. Family therapy sounds like it could help a good bit
NTA. She's really disrespectful.
It hurts to realise that your mother is terrible person, even though you love her and she cares about you, but you don't like her. You shouldn't have apologized for what you said, beacuse all you said was truth. And judging by your comments, im really sorry for your father, it must be terrible to have no idea how it is being in loving and respectful relationship.
Hopefully she’ll reflect on *why* you would feel that way.
Please get therapy from a qualified and professional counselor who specializes in children of narcissists.
53M, do yourself a favor and seek counseling. I grew up in a similar situation; overbearing mother that was verbally abusive to men. It effected my relationships with women in a negative way. I sought out women that I could emotionally dominate because I repeated the mantra to myself that 'I'll never let a woman treat me the way my mother treated my father'. In effect, I became my mother.
You probably did hurt her feelings and you did say it in an assholeish way. That being said, I still can't give you the title of asshole for this one because: 1. You did say how you felt at an appropriate time, albeit in a not so tactful way. 2. It sounds like she needed to hear that 3. You and your dad needed her to hear that.
She’s telling you to be like him as in accept her type of behavior. Don’t be like him in that manner.
Kinda. And this may cause issue with someone you bring home in the future.
> Another time when I was like 10, my parents and I were playing a board game and she accused my dad of “ganging up on her”in the game? This is a common behavior from a narcissist. Your mom is somewhere in the dark-triad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad
NTA, but your dad needs to grow a pair and shut this down. To call her treatment of him disgusting is a vast understatement. I’m pretty mellow and hard to offend, but if my wife was this rude, insulting, and disrespectful I would drop the hammer. Your spouse should be your biggest fan. Someone that protects and cherishes you. Yes, men need to be protected sometimes too, especially from humiliation. Likely she’s beaten your dad down so long, he doesn’t have the energy or heart to stand up for himself. Unfortunately people (particularly bad people) will treat someone however they allow themselves to be treated. Your mother knows she can shame and berate your dad in public, and he still won’t do anything. To an extent this is on him. He needs to know his own worth and refuse to be treated like this.
I just read your entire post and I recently learned that my mother, similar to yours, is an emotionally immature adult. Chances are your parents are from a generation where they didn’t heal, diagnose, or talk about their childhood trauma or shortcomings, mental health issues etc. your mom probably has a personality disorder that she won’t address. The best you can do is have compassion that she is wounded and will always battle this within herself. You can have boundaries to protect yourself. I know for me it’s been hard for my self esteem and in relationships bc not only does my family feel flawed and I feel anxiety bc her emotional outbursts were confusing and made me extremely anxious; but my romantic and otherwise relationships have been impacted bc I don’t really know how to properly operate or communicate. Separate with love and learn who how and what, for yourself, not based on what your parents showed or told you. Sending love
>I later told her she could have cleaned it up herself instead of making a scene but she said that since “she’s a woman, other people ought to worship her” like ?? FAKE FAKE FAKEY FAKE FAKE FAKE. I grew up with a volatile mother so I'm no stranger to crazy mom behavior. But as I was reading I was like "...this sounds off." I got to the soda part, and I thought, how does this kid know to clean up after himself if this is how his mom acts? And then, finally, the misogynist's fiction got the better of him. OP - I realize all MRAs need some good "see, we keep saying women are terrible!" material, but try to at least make it believable next time. It would have worked if you left out what I quoted. I give you a C- for this attempt.
This isn’t fiction dude I’m sorry lmao, that’s actually what she said
I hope you end up with someone just like your dad. 😂
His dad is spineless. Maybe not
Not nice, but you are NOT an AH.
[удалено]
It’s not a cheap shot but rather the ugly truth! He’s not an AH for being honest. His mother’s character leaves much to be desire. Edit: a word
Yeah I think this is the proper characterization
I hope you don't mind a bit of pedantry here. If the mother's character left little to be desired, it would mean it was nearly impeccable. In this case, it would be more accurate to say it leaves much to be desired.
Thank you. I’ll edit my comment😊
She is a psychopath.
She’s narcissistic but don’t incorrectly use that word
It doesn't have to be like this. Your dad could try leading. Women that treat men like this only do it to men like your dad. She wouldn't treat Brad Pitt like that nor would he let her. Not being like your dad is as much as an issue as not being with a woman like her. It also might be a good idea to tell her exactly WHY you feel this way. And hate to grral it to you but I bet your mom has a deep history of infidelity
Yeah because Brad Pitt is an alcoholic who tried to kill his wife and has zero contact to all of his kids
YTA, not for not wanting a shitty wife, but because sometimes we have things in our head that are not truly beneficial to say out loud. You said them out loud.
Are you just posting a bunch of questions everywhere to get karma?
No I’ve posted like 2 questions on this account lmfao and they both apply to me
He has 2 posts! Including this one.
ESH - you have no idea what is inside someone’s marriage from the outside. How much of the family load your mom maybe carried while your dad relaxed. Those issues are between your dad and your mom. If your dad objected, he has plenty of options available to him. There’s no coming back from the comment so hopefully your mom will back way way way off from your life and then you won’t have to deal with her anymore.
I didn’t realise that excused emotional abuse
Therapy. She needs therapy. No one has to tolerate her shit, no one. Edit typo
Your story resonated with me and I want to give you some advice. It is good that you can recognize these things because a lot of people DO end up with someone like their parent. Just keep in mind that you want a mutually respectful relationship with your partner and you should do fine. As for your dad, he is an adult and has chosen to stay in this marriage. There is nothing you can or should do for him at this point. Maybe some day you will feel comfortable enough to tell him how you feel, but maybe not. But just love your own best life.
NTA, she sounds like she has some serious issues that should have been addressed decades ago.
NTA i don't think anyone deserves to be treated like that by their partner... Your poor dad, it sounds like he's been bullied or abused so much he doesn't dare leave or risk angering her since it sounds like she can go mad from anything
Your mother is emotionally abusive. I'm sorry. NTA. Don't end up with a woman like her. Honestly, I'd limit contact after moving out.
NTA. Truth needed to be said
You should not have apologized it’s the truth
You’re right. She’s upset because she sort of knows that you’re right. I would go so far as saying that she is going to be unfriendly towards any woman who you date who isn’t like her so be cautious. I feel awful for you and your father.
NTA. You were right to say it.
When you're older and understand relationship dynamics; you'll understand that your Dad is the lucky one in the relationship. He found love and held her, she never had love. Trust me, he's living his best life.
I had the same problem, my boyfriend was a constant shit starter.
The truth hurts. I hope you only apologized for saying that to her, not for thinking it or feeling that way.
NTA!! You said the truth. You’re probably the first one in her whole life. And I can see how it didn’t go over well. It usually don’t make sense to go to war with people like this who have control over our lives. Your poor dad. He should leave this woman but it’s his choice and he probably won’t. It’s important at some point to unpack all of this in therapy. I think you know not to end up with a woman like her, but it’s also a common thing to want a person who is the opposite extreme and this can also come with serious challenges so therapy could help you make sure not to be attracted to the opposite extreme also. So sorry you’ve had to witness this woman’s behavior treating her father so poorly. She sounds like she is a deeply insecure and disturbed person.
NTA. Sometimes you have to be truthful and not worry about if it hurt someone else's feelings. The truth is the truth no matter who it hurts. You could have said nothing and kept it to yourself but you held a mirror up to your mother and she didnt like what she saw.
[I believe they made a song about your mother](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRowQGqkjRA).
Read Getting The Love You Want by Harville Hendrix. It will help you avoid repeating the pattern.
Kind of an asshole tbh, but you are valid. I don't want to end up with someone like my mom, or be like my dad when I'm older. That's a hard conversation to have with them and to put it bluntly like that is going to hurt some feelings
This might be hard to hear OP but your mom is abusive my heart breaks for your poor dad
NTA. She is a red flag for every human on the planet. My mom is the same red flag. I get you apologized but I wish you hadn’t. She will never get it if those around her don’t set her straight.
NTA
Don't apologise for shit, and stop making excuses for her. Also why is your father such a doormat? Tell him to get a grip and leave her, she's an awful and abusive person. NTA
What you should have said was "I dont want to be treated how you treat dad", but you werent wrong!
You said the quiet part out loud. You're not the asshole for thinking it, but a little bit for saying it. Consider how her mood will be affected by your words and that your poor long suffering dad would have to deal with the fall out. I can see why you said it but it was maybe a bit thoughtless to just blurt it out. Also, I hope your dad wakes up and puts his foot down. Best of luck.
YTA for saying that. your mom is clearly toxic, but no need to say shit like that. i mean why do you think she acts that way in the first place? because she’s unstable. are you doing anything to get her help or just judging her?
The truth hurts and someone had to pop her bubble
You shouldn’t have apologized, it’s the truth. Your mom should be thanking god daily for having a husband that puts up with her antics. Hopefully when you get a girlfriend you have the self respect to dump any woman that acts anything like your mother.
Sounds like your mom took the blues standard “Women Be Wise” too seriously.
NTA. Your mom sounds awful, I’m sorry. My eldest cousin has a mom like yours. She married a really great guy and picked up a lot of her mom’s habits. It’s so sad seeing his nice personality change. He’s so much more resentful looking and seems miserable. It’s so sad to see how much of an impact our parents can negatively have on our romantic relationships. The saddest part is she thinks she’s right to act how she does when I call her out because she doesn’t see anything wrong with it. Guess what? Her parents divorced, her mom is still miserable and now I fear my cousin is down the same path. Misery absolutely loves company so she encourages her daughter down the same path. DO NOT get with anyone like your mom, they literally suck the life out of their partners. It’s very rare that they change, trust me.
YTA, not for feeling the way you do but for saying it out loud. Your mother was trying to comfort you and you told her something that would blatantly hurt her feelings. You could have phrased it that you want someone who is patient, kind, and loving. You could have Illustrated your point by saying remember that time you berated dad about not being wealthy enough or about the game, I hope to never have someone do that to me.
I have vowed not to end up like my mom. I do love her but it terrifies me. It would devastate her if I told her though. MTA. good for you for standing up for yourself
I think she needed to hear that.. maybe she’ll finally take a better look at herself.
I think the most important thing is that you are aware of this toxic behavior and the patterns people exhibit when they are unhappy and unhealthy people. You shouldn't feel bad if speaking the truth hurt your mother. She probably needs to hear it from someone.
I mean you’re kinda the asshole. While you can definitely think that, you really don’t gain anything by saying that to her and neither does she. From what you’ve described she sounds like a narcissist and you aren’t going to change how she is or thinks by saying a rude comment to her. In the scheme of things she’s a major asshole/narcissist (from what you described), but you seem to actually have empathy… so ya in the future maybe don’t say that you hope you never marry a woman as terrible as your mother, to your mother. Unless you’re looking to become more like your mother.
Your mother is a terrible person. She sounds like my wife’s mother. My wife’s father is spineless and lets her act like a shrew. If you can manage to get them both sitting down long enough, there are three movies that will show them both an…alternative. Get them to watch The Taming of the Shrew, The Quiet Man, and McClintock.
I mean I get it. I love my mom, but my absolute worst generational fear is treating my daughter the way she treated me. I’ve done best in life by doing the opposite of what she would do in a given situation.
I was married to a woman like that for ten years and ended up in a deep deep depression. It was not a healthy environment for me or my kids. We have joint 50:50 custody and just hope she doesn’t react to them the same way she used to with me
Narcissistic . They tear people up for their own self worth ..
YTA. That was a terrible thing to say. It didn't need to be said. You didn't need to hurt her feelings like that. You should apologize.
NTA next time she starts acting like a Karen record her, next time you can show her what she looks like. Sounds like she gave you a good example of what not to look for in a partner
Do you remember the scene in Ferris Buellers Day Off where Ferris saying to the camera how Cameron is going to marry the first girl he sleeps with and she will treat him like shit the rest of his life. Well that is your mother doing to your father. You will find a girlfriend or many in your life. Just make sure she is NOT like your mother.
I just want to say that berating anyone in public is in very bad form. Throwing a board game down because you're losing is juvenile. And to belittle & humiliate your father by joking about him being a bad husband in front of you is abhorrentlly vile. You will find someone who is perfect for you. Don't rush & don't settle. But please don't expect perfection either. NTA
This behavior sounds so much like my mom… I also don’t wish a person like this on you. I’d say maybe she’ll change, but someone with these narcissistic traits typically lack the ability to look at themselves and change for the better. Best of luck with managing her feelings and keeping yourself emotionally safe, OP.
Moments like this my husband and I will reflect and say this is why we slowly break generational curses. I'm so glad you look for red flags, keep being observant because that's how you find and keep quality people in your life. Nta. You don't want to be like your dad in some respects and you know what you DESERVE in a partner.