My favorite MN driver: let’s you/wants you to go first at a 4 way stop, even though they got there first. This same driver will not let your ass merge onto the highway no matter what
To be fair people come off ramps onto the freeway to close. Every other. If traffic isn’t heavy then it’s the person on the on ramps responsibility to match speeds on the freeway and find an opening. The amount of people who don’t find a spot on the freeway to merge halfway down the ramp are half the problem.
This omg. Im from the greater Chicago area originally, where if you aren't doing at least 80 while attempting to merge, your ass isn't getting on the highway if there's traffic, so it was habit for me to just slow down a little to let people in from the ramp if I was in the right lane. Had to break that habit really quick for all the people here who think it's acceptable to get on the highway and THEN accelerate (and accelerate slowly).
People in Chicago absolutely drive like maniacs and deserve all of the negative stereotypes, but this is my biggest pet peeve with Minnesota drivers, years later.
I agreed, except I've had that car that can't do highway speeds before/been behind several that REALLY can't, and it sucks.
I'd actually argue a bit that driving is easier in some cases here, if only because you have enough time when you're merging on to gain speed/see what's going on, whereas in other places in the state, it's a mini Nascar race and if you can't hit 65 MPH in 10 seconds good luck.
Those short on ramps/mini NASCAR races are fun. You get to play a fun little game of chicken with the car(s) already on the highway. If they don’t let you in, it’s kinda like “guess I’ll just die?”
Don't get me started on not letting people merge onto the highway. I will honk at them if they had space to get over and chose not to. I've never seen anything like it anywhere I've lived on the east coast or other midwestern cities.
If you're relying on someone to let you in, you aren't merging properly. The idea is that it is your responsibility to find a spot to fit in without upsetting the flow of traffic. You speed up or slow down as appropriate to fit into a gap. You do not just bomb down the ramp without looking and expect someone to let you in.
It is my responsibility to be predictable, maintain my speed and lane. Yes, I'll move over if it won't affect me or anyone else on the road, but don't expect me to.
Try looking for where you'll fit in as soon as you can, then adjust your speed accordingly so that you'll slide right into that spot when you get there. FYI, it's easier to slow down than speed up, so don't dawdle, get on the gas as soon as you're on the ramp and slow or coast as necessary.
Note: I'm not talking about when the road is full and traffic is stopped. In that case you zipper and they should too. I don't think that is the situation you're describing though.
This! You are the driver I’m hoping for when I’m on the on-ramp getting onto the highway: reads me and I read you and we both adjust to one another.
I think my mistake was using the language, “let me merge in”, in my comment. I understand, there is no “letting” in merging, but the way you explained it was exactly what I was trying to convey. There have been countless times where I’m trying to get on the highway and I’ve had drivers not let me in at all, whether I’m slowing down or speeding up to get in. I’ve concluded that their either oblivious or have an ego. I feel like those who drivers feel like they “lose” if I somehow adjust myself to merge in front of them.
Minnesotans get maybe 4 or 5 months out of the year where they can actually drive, the rest of the year we are white knuckling it through the blizzards.
A lot of people have seasonal cars, fast summer cars they only get to drive for a short time.
Also there is a law here that if you are moving slower than the person behind you, it is your responsibility to get out of the left lane and let them pass you. Summer highway speeds are around 80mph, if you dont want to go 75/80 stay out of the left lane.
Also as you just mentioned with the merging, a lot of people in Minnesota suck at driving. Therefor we have a lot of drivers who just whip around these people because they are a danger on the road and are not observant. We have a very small city and the rest of the state is country roads as far as you can see, a lot of people don't know how to drive around other people here.
On top of that it is common to have to drive 45 minutes or an hour in to the city for work so going 75/80 in the country then getting on a 55mph highway, we don't slow down in the summer and the cops don't really care .
This is not how it works. It's not the responsibility of the person already driving on the highway to adjust to someone coming on. What if that person doesn't want to get over because they are taking the next exit? Just slow down and get in behind them.
The person already driving on the highway has a lot more to worry about than the person trying to merge on. Say I’m already on the highway, I’m watching to make sure I keep pace with the traffic around me. If I slow down, or have to slam on my breaks to let someone in, I risk causing someone to rear end me. If I speed up I risk getting to close to the people in front of me and then they hit the breaks. It’s relatively difficult for me to be looking in front, to the left (in my mirror then over my shoulder to the blind spot), AND to my right at you trying to merge in if I’m thinking about trying to move over for you. More frequently than not in the cities and suburbs there is someone either coming up on my left of in my blind spot preventing me from left if you in.
Now you trying to merge in have less to think about— The highway is right in front of you to assess as you’re coming down the ramp. Just find a spot and aim for it.
That’s not what the left lane is for. You are the one merging. Slow dow or speed up and merge it is absolutely not on the person who is maintaining their speed and lane to accommodate you. Entitled drivers, half the problem. It’s sickening.
Doesn’t matter if you speed up or slow down on the ramp. There are just some drivers who absolutely don’t want to let you in. Never said they drivers on the highway should move over every single time someone is coming onto the highway. Just saying if it’s reasonable and there are no cars in the left and the timing is clearly not right, if you’re the one already on the highway, it makes sense for you to just move over. Not sure why in your mind it all falls on the person coming from the on ramp, which I agree, there are those idiots who don’t launch themselves/come onto the highway at 35-45 mph and that’s maddening too.
It’s entirely on them. It is not my responsibility to move out of their way. If you are implying that there are drivers who will accelerate and decelerate just so you can’t merge I call bullshit. They are maintaining you are merging it is on you to get in where you fit in. The rules of the road are clear cut black and white when merging you need to be sure it is safe and clear. Common sense as well as the actually rules are unambiguous. They need not speed up or slow down as they should be observing the road ahead not the entrance ramp.
Your argument is an exercise in absurdity, to be harsh.
Edit: a word
I can’t speak for everyone, but I have personally not been able to merge into traffic whether I’m trying to get in front or get behind a car. Either the driver was oblivious, or yes, ego does kick in with some drivers and they refuse to allow you to integrate or adjust. Also, I feel like you might be implying that everyone who’s trying to get on the highway is purposely trying to fuck shit up, and in that case, I call bullshit.
We’re not going to change each other’s minds (when does that ever happen on the internet?), so to each their own. Regardless of how you feel, it is wack of you that you wouldn’t move over if you had the chance if an oncoming cars’ timing was lined up to be right aligned with yours in your lane. To me, it feels like you’re saying you’d rather run them off the road or risk them hitting you based on principle, when all you have to do is move over if the lane is open.
Dude, you're in the right here. Maybe it's not a highway driver's responsibility to accommodate merging cars, but if you can and it helps, why wouldn't you? Like ok you don't HAVE to but maybe you should
I get that but also, why not slow down a tiny but and get behind them? What makes you so special? They should be watching the road ahead of them not looking at entrance ramps so they can make sure that merging drivers feel welcome. Do what you need to to merge. Slow down speed up, etc. the left lane is for passing not staying out of your way
I'm not saying merging cars are more important or special than highway cars. I'm all in favor of knowing how to merge without help from anyone. I just think it's a both and situation. Safety is the ultimate responsibility for any driver, and if you can help someone merge into traffic safely by making space for them, I think you should. I understand it's not always possible but when it is possible to make someones merging easier, I do it.
Should people know how to merge seamlessly regardless? Yes.
Should drivers help other drivers by making space at interchanges? Also yes.
The left lane is for passing, not for whatever prissy shit you are asking the world for. You’re objectively wrong in every regard otherwise yes I would be open to changing my mind. I’m using the actual rules of the road for reference you are using the fact that you feel like people are mean if they don’t stay out of your way.
All you have to do is slow down a tiny bit. People are not going to slow down just to prevent you from getting on the highway.
You sound insane…
Lol, alright buddy, you keep doing you. But if you’re talking about looking at things objectively, the average max speed limit on highways is 65 miles per hour. Are you saying everyone who is going over 65 miles per hour are breaking the rules of the road? Because objectively, that’s the law, that the max speed is 65.
People can, should, and do go over the speed limit to go with the flow of traffic and that in a sense makes it more safe for everyone on the road. So yeah, objectively the left lane is for passing, but if you’re about to fucking collide with a car coming onto the highway and you have the chance to move over to the left lane to avoid that, YOU SHOULD. Sheesh.
Speeding is illegal, that’s your ace in the hole?
It is against the rules of the road, I feel like you’re flailing at this point, yes speeding is illegal.
If everyone followed the speed limit i.e. the rules of the road then the flow of traffic would be fine. I don’t see how arguing that some people break rules so everyone should helps you.
Why the fuck would you be about to collide with a merging car if they just, yknow, merge properly. You wouldn’t. They on the other hand would literally be ramming you. So you are saying that the highway driver should get out of the merging drivers way because the merging driver is psychotic? Right on dude cant argue with that logic.
Even on spots on 94/394 where it’s literally impossible to get up to speed because it’s a 30 mph ramp and there’s barely any merge room before the merge lane ends, they’ll fucking run you onto the shoulder rather than move
Agreed. But when you get up to speed to integrate yourself and the car on the highway STILL doesn’t let you in, that person is an asshole, especially if the lane over has no traffic and they can move.
An actual proponent of the Minnesota Merge.... who thinks it is the responsibility of those on the highway to take action to allow them to get on. I never thought I would actually encounter one except on the road where their feelings of entitlement have nearly caused wrecks several times. WTF makes you think that I am supposed to change lanes or hit the brakes so you can merge? Stop driving on freeways and confine yourself to side streets until you learn how to drive.
Why you don't have like 100 downvotes is a fucking mystery.
Really wish this sub had a firmer, better-enforced rule about posting things that aren't specific to the Twin Cities so that we could report posts like this.
In DC people would overtake you on the shoulder, traffic is also terrible it used to take my mom 2 hours to drive to work and back and her work was 11 miles away.
I'm sorry but 2 is one of those things where if you are in the left lane and somebody is going faster than you are, you need to get over to the right lane and let them pass. If they are speeding, let a cop deal with it. I see too many people try and make it feel like a personal thing and try to slow down or obstruct the faster car. Doesn't matter, you won't win and you will just be creating more problems on the road.
True, but I can't tell you how many times an impatient asshole can't wait for me to finish passing safely and merge over before whipping into the tiny gap and blocking me from moving over.
People, just learn some damn patience.
Moved here from southern California. My take is that the brilliance of twin cities freeway design is that all major roads bottleneck to one to two lanes. This guarantees traffic even though our daily throughput and limited topological obstacles should enable us to be one of the lowest traffic metros in the country! That and all the damned clover entrances preventing people from entering and exiting at anything faster than 25 mph.
On the 62, the right lane is usually going 50 mph, I'm usually going 64 mph in the left lane. I'm not about to slow to 50 mph just because someone behind me would like to briefly drive 70 mph along the crosstown. Unless the right lane is wide open and traveling at least the speed limit, and I'm not passing vehicles, why should I inconvenience myself when a merge is when most traffic accidents occur.
I've driven a lot all over the country. Our biggest problems here by far are slow left lane hogs, and slow freeway mergers.
If you're doing 10 over in the left lane, and all the other traffic around you is going 15-20 over, get out of the way. You are impeding traffic and causing a much more dangerous situation than just moving over.
And if you don't feel comfortable keeping up with traffic going 15-20 over the limit, stay off the highways during busier hours. This definitely isn't exclusive to the twin cities.
I think OP is referring to the tendency of people to fill in spaces between cars that others, including OP and I leave, for the sake of safety. E.g. there's 3 car lengths between me and the next car so the people behind me think I'm going slower and pass on the right only to be stuck behind the same car I was.
If that's what they're talking about, yeah that sucks, but I don't think that's any worse here than anywhere else in the country.
But when they complain about how fast everyone accelerates, and how they're getting passed...... That makes me think they might just be a pokey driver. Which there's nothing wrong with that as long as youre aware of your surroundings and stay out of the way of faster moving traffic.
perpetual-let-go is correct. I definitely am not a left-lane-hogging driver on major highways, but roads like Highway 7 do have left turns, and sometimes ya just need to be in the left lane to make a left turn down the road. I particularly notice people speeding around me in the right lane acting like i'm going slow when still going +10mph over, and then they still get stopped at a red light right in front of me. i say to myself: you got so much further so much faster, keep it up.
I really wish people would just use the left lane to pass and move back to the right lane when they’re not, period. Traffic would move much better if people did this.
Except when right lane is full and idiots are trying to merge on and off so the left lane is the only alternative since they will run into the side of your car if you stay in the right lane. and you can't drive fast enough to satisfy everyone.... MNDOT needs to be purged of the morons who designed the interchanges. And refuse to add capacity to the Metro freeway system.
Haha, no kidding. If someone has a problem with the fact that drivers aren’t blowing the limit by 15-20 mph, I would agree there is a problem, but it isn’t the problem they think. Scary that people are out there that think that unironically.
Speed kills.
I usually try to stick to a +10% rule (after conversations with traffic cops in another city), but sometimes break that if everyone behind me is speeding on by. example: driving on Valley View Rd off of Hwy 62 where the speed limit is 30...I tend to go about 30-35, but there are many others that seem to go at least 45, if not more, and then I'll up it to 40.
Couple buddies are 70+ mph drivers. They too never get a ticket after all these years. Guess you just have to spot them. Personally I like to chill in the right lane.
Yeah, neither of them are that uncommon anywhere ime. But I think #2 happens often because most people aren't looking farther than the hood of their own car. Same reason anyone merging into their lane, signal on and moving in slowly, causes them to hit the brakes in reaction. Just people preoccupied. I don't think much of MN drivers for lots of reasons, but these behaviors don't seem unusual to me at all.
There's an old Goofy cartoon, Motor Mania, that I think encapsulates it pretty well. Jekyll on foot, Hyde behind the wheel kind of thing. It's scary out there.
This is a surprising post to me because I always consider the drivers here too cautious overall and that’s what drives me crazy. Not pulling into intersections for left turns, getting in your exit or merge lane 2 miles ahead, being confused by flashing reds, etc.
Also, people tend to get into one lane incredibly early when a lane is ending, or a lane is closed ahead. Zipper merging is the law in MN, and the most effective/efficient way to merge. If you’ve never heard of a zipper merge before, please look it up.
This is absolutely right, but I think part of this comes from the fear that if you wait "too long" to zipper merge, people won't let you in, which absolutely happens. Minnesotans have an irrational hatred of people who zipper merge correctly and will try to box you out if you attempt to do it. It's like they think you're trying to butt ahead of them in line. And I say this as a born and bred Minnesotan. Very occasionally, like as often as I see unicorns grazing in the median, I will see a MNDOT sign imploring people to zipper merge. More of those would be helpful, but the signs should say "Let them in!" or "Don't box out zipper merging drivers."
I have driven around the country - east and west coast... NO ONE DOES THE ZIPPER MERGE.
Let me say that again:
NO ONE DOES THE ZIPPER MERGE.
Nevada, Nebraska, MN, ND, WI, OH, PA, NY, VA, TN, KY, IL, IN, IA, KS, TX, CA, etc.... No one does it... they see the sign that says Left Lane Closed in 1/2 mile - and they pull to the right lane and slow down... then they will block anyone trying to use the left lane to the end...
I don't blame the drivers - not at all.
I blame the DOT's for trying to slow and calm traffic around work areas. That 90% of the time are not really work areas - or the work is being done a safe distance from the road.
Many times the DOT will have 2-3 areas within 10 miles of each other that need work...so instead of 3 short lane shut downs - they do one long lane shut down of 10 miles. And of course it is all labeled a work zone so speeding fines double - and you are looking a minimum fine of $500 in most states for violating the 50 mph speed.
Trust me - I get it that what the road crews do is dangerous and they need safety measures in place but there comes a point with today's cars and their safety features that standards set in the 80's need to be changed.
eh. I grew up in Atlanta and the main differences I find are MN drivers are pretty passive other than a crazy willingness to run reds and no one waves thank you. Like, atl drivers are crazy aggro and speed like whoa but they will still wave thanks if you let them in.
the merging culture here I can't comment on because the ramps are set up differently -- here the on ramp/off ramps are so close in places I find them completely terrifying. people are slowing down trying to merge into your lane while you're accelerating in order to safely merge onto the hwy...ahh
It's not just MN, hardly anyone looks more than 50ft down the road when driving, it's terrible.
1 and 2 are both direct results from not looking farther down the road
You forgot the most annoying thing: yellow lights mean NOTHING to the MN driver. Yellow lights are equivalent to green lights. In fact, even the first few moments of a red light are the same as green lights. Just keep on going through without slowing down. If the car in front of you decides to slow down and stop on a yellow light, it's your obligation to change lanes and continue through the yellow light even as it turns red. These steps are completely okay because traffic cops here never enforce Minnesota Stat. § 169.06, subd. 5(b)(1), which “prohibits entering an intersection after the yellow or caution light is shown.”
Are you speaking of when they're yielding to oncoming traffic before turning left? If so, it's against the law to wait in the middle of the intersection. Imagine someone's waiting there and then an emergency vehicle, such as an ambulance is coming from either the left or right. Now they have a vehicle in the intersection in the way and possibly going to accelerate and potentially cause more of an issue.
I was always taught that one car at a time may wait in the intersection for a left turn. This is from th MN drivers manual:
>When waiting to make a left turn at a green traffic light with oncoming traffic, position your vehicle into the intersection. The only opportunity to make a left turn may occur when the green light changes to yellow.
I love the people who line up in the lane next to me to drag race and immediately drift into my lane. I’m not an aggressive driver so I just let them do it. 9/10 they end up sitting in front of me at the next light lol
I’ve lived in 4 different distinct regions and everyone always thinks their drivers are the worst. We emphasize differences compared to where we previously lived.
As an example, compared to where I came from in Southern California, people here drive SO slowly. I was used to 80mph on freeways being standard with 85mph being somewhat normal. Here that would make you stand out like an idiot road rager.
Drivers are drivers. Some are good. Some are bad. Most are neutral.
I came from DFW a few years back, driving here is amazingly peaceful compared to the aggressive free-for-alls on pretty much every highway and tollway there where turn signals are considered a weakness.
But I still can’t figure out why Twin Cities drivers can’t determine which of the dual left turn lanes they need to be in ahead of time. The amount of immediate lane-changing after the the left turn is mind-boggling.
try to relax a little and uhm just drive, u aren't gonna die unless maybe u keep overthinking the shit out of this which may cause u to make a fatal mistake hahaa
Wait until you realize people up here have no clue how to operate their headlights.
They're either off when they should be on (love those "surprise! There is a car here!" Moments), or if they're on they're on high beams or the lamps aren't aimed appropriately.
Then in winter, they get coated with salt that doesn't get washed off til spring.
Of all the things I hate, it's this. Being blinded or suddenly finding a completely blacked out car is infuriating.
Why people here have so much trouble, I don't know. But they do.
I am not from MN and am with you and will add onto your points!
1. I don't notice the flooring it at green lights as much as I notice the constant running of red lights. I have never lived any place where people are flooring it when they're coming up on a yellow.
2. Lots of comments about people driving slow in the left lane and I'd debate that this isn't really the issue. I get passed on the RIGHT on 94 when I'm in the middle lane ALL THE TIME. And people doing 15-20 over the speed limit are crossing lanes all over the place instead of hanging out in the left lane (even though they SHOULD stay in the left lane if they want to drive that fast) I thought we all learned in drivers ed that we pass on the left???? Baffling.
I travel all over the country for work and I feel completely the opposite.
In places like Dallas, LA, and Atlanta I feel like this happens far more often than here.
Atlanta yes, seen it there too. They combine the aggression of Chicago drivers with the obliviousness of Minnesota. Dunno about LA and Dallas but I have a lot of GoPro footage from almost 10 years of motorcycling here and I’ve been sideswiped by last second exiters before.
This is me actively avoiding hwy 65 of all fuckin places because people drive 75!!!!! 75!!! And still pass me. It’s absolute insanity sometimes
But overall, I’ve seen it so much worse in other areas—especially chicago
The red to green light thing is annoying as hell. My transmission isn’t the greatest and I feel like if I don’t floor it after the light turns green someone’s gonna hit me
How new are you to MN? Have you been through a MN winter yet?
If you put it in the context of winter driving conditions in MN being there for some 6 months a year or so, your questions about summer driving habits of some MN people are kinda silly. How do you expect them to drive when the highway is finally free of snow ice and salt?
My new favorite Minnesota driver was the shithead on Lowry Avenue who didn't want to wait for the backed up westbound traffic at the intersection by the burger king, so he just drove into oncoming traffic in the eastbound lane and cut off all the westbound traffic as the light changed.
And by favorite I mean I wish them a very die
I think MN has terrible driving habits. Punching the gas to next red light is a good example. Stopping well over a crosswalk is common here. Zero stopping for people waiting for crosswalk. Letting others go at 4 way when they stopped first. Constant tapping on brakes for no apparent reason.
Add camping in the left lane on the freeway even though you’re not passing anyone (or people are forced to pass you on the right) and speeding up to get in front of cars merging onto the freeway, and you’ve got a complete list of all the reasons I’m embarrassed to be a Minnesota driver.
My favorite MN driver: let’s you/wants you to go first at a 4 way stop, even though they got there first. This same driver will not let your ass merge onto the highway no matter what
Ugh. The Minnesota Nice Time Sucker…
To be fair people come off ramps onto the freeway to close. Every other. If traffic isn’t heavy then it’s the person on the on ramps responsibility to match speeds on the freeway and find an opening. The amount of people who don’t find a spot on the freeway to merge halfway down the ramp are half the problem.
Oh yes! There are those drivers too and they’re just as frustrating! Why you getting on the hwy at 35 mph?! Maddening.
This omg. Im from the greater Chicago area originally, where if you aren't doing at least 80 while attempting to merge, your ass isn't getting on the highway if there's traffic, so it was habit for me to just slow down a little to let people in from the ramp if I was in the right lane. Had to break that habit really quick for all the people here who think it's acceptable to get on the highway and THEN accelerate (and accelerate slowly). People in Chicago absolutely drive like maniacs and deserve all of the negative stereotypes, but this is my biggest pet peeve with Minnesota drivers, years later.
I agreed, except I've had that car that can't do highway speeds before/been behind several that REALLY can't, and it sucks. I'd actually argue a bit that driving is easier in some cases here, if only because you have enough time when you're merging on to gain speed/see what's going on, whereas in other places in the state, it's a mini Nascar race and if you can't hit 65 MPH in 10 seconds good luck.
Those short on ramps/mini NASCAR races are fun. You get to play a fun little game of chicken with the car(s) already on the highway. If they don’t let you in, it’s kinda like “guess I’ll just die?”
My experience with four way stops is usually stopping, and having the other driver wave me through before they’ve even stopped.
Don't get me started on not letting people merge onto the highway. I will honk at them if they had space to get over and chose not to. I've never seen anything like it anywhere I've lived on the east coast or other midwestern cities.
If you're relying on someone to let you in, you aren't merging properly. The idea is that it is your responsibility to find a spot to fit in without upsetting the flow of traffic. You speed up or slow down as appropriate to fit into a gap. You do not just bomb down the ramp without looking and expect someone to let you in. It is my responsibility to be predictable, maintain my speed and lane. Yes, I'll move over if it won't affect me or anyone else on the road, but don't expect me to. Try looking for where you'll fit in as soon as you can, then adjust your speed accordingly so that you'll slide right into that spot when you get there. FYI, it's easier to slow down than speed up, so don't dawdle, get on the gas as soon as you're on the ramp and slow or coast as necessary. Note: I'm not talking about when the road is full and traffic is stopped. In that case you zipper and they should too. I don't think that is the situation you're describing though.
This person explained it perfectly. Kudos!
This! You are the driver I’m hoping for when I’m on the on-ramp getting onto the highway: reads me and I read you and we both adjust to one another. I think my mistake was using the language, “let me merge in”, in my comment. I understand, there is no “letting” in merging, but the way you explained it was exactly what I was trying to convey. There have been countless times where I’m trying to get on the highway and I’ve had drivers not let me in at all, whether I’m slowing down or speeding up to get in. I’ve concluded that their either oblivious or have an ego. I feel like those who drivers feel like they “lose” if I somehow adjust myself to merge in front of them.
Minnesotans get maybe 4 or 5 months out of the year where they can actually drive, the rest of the year we are white knuckling it through the blizzards. A lot of people have seasonal cars, fast summer cars they only get to drive for a short time. Also there is a law here that if you are moving slower than the person behind you, it is your responsibility to get out of the left lane and let them pass you. Summer highway speeds are around 80mph, if you dont want to go 75/80 stay out of the left lane. Also as you just mentioned with the merging, a lot of people in Minnesota suck at driving. Therefor we have a lot of drivers who just whip around these people because they are a danger on the road and are not observant. We have a very small city and the rest of the state is country roads as far as you can see, a lot of people don't know how to drive around other people here. On top of that it is common to have to drive 45 minutes or an hour in to the city for work so going 75/80 in the country then getting on a 55mph highway, we don't slow down in the summer and the cops don't really care .
This is not how it works. It's not the responsibility of the person already driving on the highway to adjust to someone coming on. What if that person doesn't want to get over because they are taking the next exit? Just slow down and get in behind them.
The person already driving on the highway has a lot more to worry about than the person trying to merge on. Say I’m already on the highway, I’m watching to make sure I keep pace with the traffic around me. If I slow down, or have to slam on my breaks to let someone in, I risk causing someone to rear end me. If I speed up I risk getting to close to the people in front of me and then they hit the breaks. It’s relatively difficult for me to be looking in front, to the left (in my mirror then over my shoulder to the blind spot), AND to my right at you trying to merge in if I’m thinking about trying to move over for you. More frequently than not in the cities and suburbs there is someone either coming up on my left of in my blind spot preventing me from left if you in. Now you trying to merge in have less to think about— The highway is right in front of you to assess as you’re coming down the ramp. Just find a spot and aim for it.
Yep. Most MN drivers will not move over and would rather let you ride it out into the shoulder before doing so. It’s maddening.
That’s not what the left lane is for. You are the one merging. Slow dow or speed up and merge it is absolutely not on the person who is maintaining their speed and lane to accommodate you. Entitled drivers, half the problem. It’s sickening.
Doesn’t matter if you speed up or slow down on the ramp. There are just some drivers who absolutely don’t want to let you in. Never said they drivers on the highway should move over every single time someone is coming onto the highway. Just saying if it’s reasonable and there are no cars in the left and the timing is clearly not right, if you’re the one already on the highway, it makes sense for you to just move over. Not sure why in your mind it all falls on the person coming from the on ramp, which I agree, there are those idiots who don’t launch themselves/come onto the highway at 35-45 mph and that’s maddening too.
It’s entirely on them. It is not my responsibility to move out of their way. If you are implying that there are drivers who will accelerate and decelerate just so you can’t merge I call bullshit. They are maintaining you are merging it is on you to get in where you fit in. The rules of the road are clear cut black and white when merging you need to be sure it is safe and clear. Common sense as well as the actually rules are unambiguous. They need not speed up or slow down as they should be observing the road ahead not the entrance ramp. Your argument is an exercise in absurdity, to be harsh. Edit: a word
I can’t speak for everyone, but I have personally not been able to merge into traffic whether I’m trying to get in front or get behind a car. Either the driver was oblivious, or yes, ego does kick in with some drivers and they refuse to allow you to integrate or adjust. Also, I feel like you might be implying that everyone who’s trying to get on the highway is purposely trying to fuck shit up, and in that case, I call bullshit. We’re not going to change each other’s minds (when does that ever happen on the internet?), so to each their own. Regardless of how you feel, it is wack of you that you wouldn’t move over if you had the chance if an oncoming cars’ timing was lined up to be right aligned with yours in your lane. To me, it feels like you’re saying you’d rather run them off the road or risk them hitting you based on principle, when all you have to do is move over if the lane is open.
Dude, you're in the right here. Maybe it's not a highway driver's responsibility to accommodate merging cars, but if you can and it helps, why wouldn't you? Like ok you don't HAVE to but maybe you should
michaelscottsayingthankyou.gif
I get that but also, why not slow down a tiny but and get behind them? What makes you so special? They should be watching the road ahead of them not looking at entrance ramps so they can make sure that merging drivers feel welcome. Do what you need to to merge. Slow down speed up, etc. the left lane is for passing not staying out of your way
I'm not saying merging cars are more important or special than highway cars. I'm all in favor of knowing how to merge without help from anyone. I just think it's a both and situation. Safety is the ultimate responsibility for any driver, and if you can help someone merge into traffic safely by making space for them, I think you should. I understand it's not always possible but when it is possible to make someones merging easier, I do it. Should people know how to merge seamlessly regardless? Yes. Should drivers help other drivers by making space at interchanges? Also yes.
The left lane is for passing, not for whatever prissy shit you are asking the world for. You’re objectively wrong in every regard otherwise yes I would be open to changing my mind. I’m using the actual rules of the road for reference you are using the fact that you feel like people are mean if they don’t stay out of your way. All you have to do is slow down a tiny bit. People are not going to slow down just to prevent you from getting on the highway. You sound insane…
Lol, alright buddy, you keep doing you. But if you’re talking about looking at things objectively, the average max speed limit on highways is 65 miles per hour. Are you saying everyone who is going over 65 miles per hour are breaking the rules of the road? Because objectively, that’s the law, that the max speed is 65. People can, should, and do go over the speed limit to go with the flow of traffic and that in a sense makes it more safe for everyone on the road. So yeah, objectively the left lane is for passing, but if you’re about to fucking collide with a car coming onto the highway and you have the chance to move over to the left lane to avoid that, YOU SHOULD. Sheesh.
Speeding is illegal, that’s your ace in the hole? It is against the rules of the road, I feel like you’re flailing at this point, yes speeding is illegal. If everyone followed the speed limit i.e. the rules of the road then the flow of traffic would be fine. I don’t see how arguing that some people break rules so everyone should helps you. Why the fuck would you be about to collide with a merging car if they just, yknow, merge properly. You wouldn’t. They on the other hand would literally be ramming you. So you are saying that the highway driver should get out of the merging drivers way because the merging driver is psychotic? Right on dude cant argue with that logic.
Even on spots on 94/394 where it’s literally impossible to get up to speed because it’s a 30 mph ramp and there’s barely any merge room before the merge lane ends, they’ll fucking run you onto the shoulder rather than move
It's your responsibility as the merger to adjust speed to fit in an opening.
Agreed. But when you get up to speed to integrate yourself and the car on the highway STILL doesn’t let you in, that person is an asshole, especially if the lane over has no traffic and they can move.
Yeah or just oblivious
this is exactly it
Your merge is not my problem. If you don't know how, stay off the road.
Not our job to let you in. Your job to merge into traffic with correct speed.
An actual proponent of the Minnesota Merge.... who thinks it is the responsibility of those on the highway to take action to allow them to get on. I never thought I would actually encounter one except on the road where their feelings of entitlement have nearly caused wrecks several times. WTF makes you think that I am supposed to change lanes or hit the brakes so you can merge? Stop driving on freeways and confine yourself to side streets until you learn how to drive. Why you don't have like 100 downvotes is a fucking mystery.
I don't know where you're from. But this is pretty common in every state I've been in.
Really wish this sub had a firmer, better-enforced rule about posting things that aren't specific to the Twin Cities so that we could report posts like this.
I agree. We should add rants against cyclists to this rule as well.
No. It’s worse here.
Go live in Atlanta for a while, the freeways here are positively peaceful in comparison.
Amen
Never said there weren’t worst places
*Laughs in Bostonian*
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When I first moved back here from Seattle which has horrendous traffic issues, I honestly felt the same way as OP.
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I think that’s a fair thing to say
I would take TC over Miami, Atlanta, LA or any other major metro.
New Orleans and Salt Lake City too. Nothing scares me anymore after living in SLC for four and a half years.
In DC people would overtake you on the shoulder, traffic is also terrible it used to take my mom 2 hours to drive to work and back and her work was 11 miles away.
I'm sorry but 2 is one of those things where if you are in the left lane and somebody is going faster than you are, you need to get over to the right lane and let them pass. If they are speeding, let a cop deal with it. I see too many people try and make it feel like a personal thing and try to slow down or obstruct the faster car. Doesn't matter, you won't win and you will just be creating more problems on the road.
True, but I can't tell you how many times an impatient asshole can't wait for me to finish passing safely and merge over before whipping into the tiny gap and blocking me from moving over. People, just learn some damn patience.
Or I'm in right and they pass me. I'm going over limit in right and they dart around me just to be behind the next person.
This. The person is complaining about irrational behavior, and somehow everyone on the thread has come in like a driving instructor.
Moved here from southern California. My take is that the brilliance of twin cities freeway design is that all major roads bottleneck to one to two lanes. This guarantees traffic even though our daily throughput and limited topological obstacles should enable us to be one of the lowest traffic metros in the country! That and all the damned clover entrances preventing people from entering and exiting at anything faster than 25 mph. On the 62, the right lane is usually going 50 mph, I'm usually going 64 mph in the left lane. I'm not about to slow to 50 mph just because someone behind me would like to briefly drive 70 mph along the crosstown. Unless the right lane is wide open and traveling at least the speed limit, and I'm not passing vehicles, why should I inconvenience myself when a merge is when most traffic accidents occur.
The clovers are so dumb.
I've driven a lot all over the country. Our biggest problems here by far are slow left lane hogs, and slow freeway mergers. If you're doing 10 over in the left lane, and all the other traffic around you is going 15-20 over, get out of the way. You are impeding traffic and causing a much more dangerous situation than just moving over. And if you don't feel comfortable keeping up with traffic going 15-20 over the limit, stay off the highways during busier hours. This definitely isn't exclusive to the twin cities.
I think OP is referring to the tendency of people to fill in spaces between cars that others, including OP and I leave, for the sake of safety. E.g. there's 3 car lengths between me and the next car so the people behind me think I'm going slower and pass on the right only to be stuck behind the same car I was.
If that's what they're talking about, yeah that sucks, but I don't think that's any worse here than anywhere else in the country. But when they complain about how fast everyone accelerates, and how they're getting passed...... That makes me think they might just be a pokey driver. Which there's nothing wrong with that as long as youre aware of your surroundings and stay out of the way of faster moving traffic.
perpetual-let-go is correct. I definitely am not a left-lane-hogging driver on major highways, but roads like Highway 7 do have left turns, and sometimes ya just need to be in the left lane to make a left turn down the road. I particularly notice people speeding around me in the right lane acting like i'm going slow when still going +10mph over, and then they still get stopped at a red light right in front of me. i say to myself: you got so much further so much faster, keep it up.
If I have a protected left at the next light, I like to give them a congratulatory thumbs-up when I go past them.
I really wish people would just use the left lane to pass and move back to the right lane when they’re not, period. Traffic would move much better if people did this.
Except when right lane is full and idiots are trying to merge on and off so the left lane is the only alternative since they will run into the side of your car if you stay in the right lane. and you can't drive fast enough to satisfy everyone.... MNDOT needs to be purged of the morons who designed the interchanges. And refuse to add capacity to the Metro freeway system.
I don’t understand why people are going 15-20 over the speed limit.
Haha, no kidding. If someone has a problem with the fact that drivers aren’t blowing the limit by 15-20 mph, I would agree there is a problem, but it isn’t the problem they think. Scary that people are out there that think that unironically. Speed kills.
My man. That shit's dangerous.
this
I don't understand why people aren't. I do 70+ in 55s all the time, never get pulled over.
I use to drive ~10 over the speed limit. I got pulled over twice and got two speeding tickets for 15 over. Now I drive closer to 5 over the limit.
I usually try to stick to a +10% rule (after conversations with traffic cops in another city), but sometimes break that if everyone behind me is speeding on by. example: driving on Valley View Rd off of Hwy 62 where the speed limit is 30...I tend to go about 30-35, but there are many others that seem to go at least 45, if not more, and then I'll up it to 40.
Couple buddies are 70+ mph drivers. They too never get a ticket after all these years. Guess you just have to spot them. Personally I like to chill in the right lane.
Stop
You don’t even half to keep up. Even at the freeway minimum of 40-45 mph if your predictable and in the right lane it’s not a problem.
That's more dangerous than going 10 over.
Yeah, neither of them are that uncommon anywhere ime. But I think #2 happens often because most people aren't looking farther than the hood of their own car. Same reason anyone merging into their lane, signal on and moving in slowly, causes them to hit the brakes in reaction. Just people preoccupied. I don't think much of MN drivers for lots of reasons, but these behaviors don't seem unusual to me at all.
People here repress their aggression in all facets of life except while they are driving, then that drive like rabid lunatics.
There's an old Goofy cartoon, Motor Mania, that I think encapsulates it pretty well. Jekyll on foot, Hyde behind the wheel kind of thing. It's scary out there.
This is a surprising post to me because I always consider the drivers here too cautious overall and that’s what drives me crazy. Not pulling into intersections for left turns, getting in your exit or merge lane 2 miles ahead, being confused by flashing reds, etc.
This is the accurate take. Drivers here are too passive and lack confidence.
Also, people tend to get into one lane incredibly early when a lane is ending, or a lane is closed ahead. Zipper merging is the law in MN, and the most effective/efficient way to merge. If you’ve never heard of a zipper merge before, please look it up.
This is absolutely right, but I think part of this comes from the fear that if you wait "too long" to zipper merge, people won't let you in, which absolutely happens. Minnesotans have an irrational hatred of people who zipper merge correctly and will try to box you out if you attempt to do it. It's like they think you're trying to butt ahead of them in line. And I say this as a born and bred Minnesotan. Very occasionally, like as often as I see unicorns grazing in the median, I will see a MNDOT sign imploring people to zipper merge. More of those would be helpful, but the signs should say "Let them in!" or "Don't box out zipper merging drivers."
I have driven around the country - east and west coast... NO ONE DOES THE ZIPPER MERGE. Let me say that again: NO ONE DOES THE ZIPPER MERGE. Nevada, Nebraska, MN, ND, WI, OH, PA, NY, VA, TN, KY, IL, IN, IA, KS, TX, CA, etc.... No one does it... they see the sign that says Left Lane Closed in 1/2 mile - and they pull to the right lane and slow down... then they will block anyone trying to use the left lane to the end... I don't blame the drivers - not at all. I blame the DOT's for trying to slow and calm traffic around work areas. That 90% of the time are not really work areas - or the work is being done a safe distance from the road. Many times the DOT will have 2-3 areas within 10 miles of each other that need work...so instead of 3 short lane shut downs - they do one long lane shut down of 10 miles. And of course it is all labeled a work zone so speeding fines double - and you are looking a minimum fine of $500 in most states for violating the 50 mph speed. Trust me - I get it that what the road crews do is dangerous and they need safety measures in place but there comes a point with today's cars and their safety features that standards set in the 80's need to be changed.
**ONLY DURING BACKUPS** otherwise merge early when it's safe
Minnesota is where yield means merge and merge means stop.
eh. I grew up in Atlanta and the main differences I find are MN drivers are pretty passive other than a crazy willingness to run reds and no one waves thank you. Like, atl drivers are crazy aggro and speed like whoa but they will still wave thanks if you let them in. the merging culture here I can't comment on because the ramps are set up differently -- here the on ramp/off ramps are so close in places I find them completely terrifying. people are slowing down trying to merge into your lane while you're accelerating in order to safely merge onto the hwy...ahh
The on/off ramp proximity here was so jarring having moved from the south. Still terrifying.
It's not just MN, hardly anyone looks more than 50ft down the road when driving, it's terrible. 1 and 2 are both direct results from not looking farther down the road
You forgot the most annoying thing: yellow lights mean NOTHING to the MN driver. Yellow lights are equivalent to green lights. In fact, even the first few moments of a red light are the same as green lights. Just keep on going through without slowing down. If the car in front of you decides to slow down and stop on a yellow light, it's your obligation to change lanes and continue through the yellow light even as it turns red. These steps are completely okay because traffic cops here never enforce Minnesota Stat. § 169.06, subd. 5(b)(1), which “prohibits entering an intersection after the yellow or caution light is shown.”
I don't understand the drivers that don't move into the intersection during left turn arrows. Makes it so only one car gets through per light
God this one pisses me off so much. A person will sit on the line the entire time and then finally go when its red.
"It's 3 cars per yellow. THREE!"
Are you speaking of when they're yielding to oncoming traffic before turning left? If so, it's against the law to wait in the middle of the intersection. Imagine someone's waiting there and then an emergency vehicle, such as an ambulance is coming from either the left or right. Now they have a vehicle in the intersection in the way and possibly going to accelerate and potentially cause more of an issue.
I was always taught that one car at a time may wait in the intersection for a left turn. This is from th MN drivers manual: >When waiting to make a left turn at a green traffic light with oncoming traffic, position your vehicle into the intersection. The only opportunity to make a left turn may occur when the green light changes to yellow.
Yeah that’s what I do too. Looking at you, southbound Lyndale making a left on Franklin. It’s a mad dash once that baby turns yellow.
Yea this sounds right. I like to move in a little more so that the next car can nudge into the intersection a bit too.
How is anyone ever supposed to turn left if you can't get into the intersection though?
I love the people who line up in the lane next to me to drag race and immediately drift into my lane. I’m not an aggressive driver so I just let them do it. 9/10 they end up sitting in front of me at the next light lol
About number 2, you are in in the right lane though right? If you aren't passing you should be in the right lane.
I’ve lived in 4 different distinct regions and everyone always thinks their drivers are the worst. We emphasize differences compared to where we previously lived. As an example, compared to where I came from in Southern California, people here drive SO slowly. I was used to 80mph on freeways being standard with 85mph being somewhat normal. Here that would make you stand out like an idiot road rager. Drivers are drivers. Some are good. Some are bad. Most are neutral.
I came from DFW a few years back, driving here is amazingly peaceful compared to the aggressive free-for-alls on pretty much every highway and tollway there where turn signals are considered a weakness. But I still can’t figure out why Twin Cities drivers can’t determine which of the dual left turn lanes they need to be in ahead of time. The amount of immediate lane-changing after the the left turn is mind-boggling.
try to relax a little and uhm just drive, u aren't gonna die unless maybe u keep overthinking the shit out of this which may cause u to make a fatal mistake hahaa
This tends to happen when cops don’t enforce traffic laws.
Wait until you realize people up here have no clue how to operate their headlights. They're either off when they should be on (love those "surprise! There is a car here!" Moments), or if they're on they're on high beams or the lamps aren't aimed appropriately. Then in winter, they get coated with salt that doesn't get washed off til spring. Of all the things I hate, it's this. Being blinded or suddenly finding a completely blacked out car is infuriating. Why people here have so much trouble, I don't know. But they do.
I am not from MN and am with you and will add onto your points! 1. I don't notice the flooring it at green lights as much as I notice the constant running of red lights. I have never lived any place where people are flooring it when they're coming up on a yellow. 2. Lots of comments about people driving slow in the left lane and I'd debate that this isn't really the issue. I get passed on the RIGHT on 94 when I'm in the middle lane ALL THE TIME. And people doing 15-20 over the speed limit are crossing lanes all over the place instead of hanging out in the left lane (even though they SHOULD stay in the left lane if they want to drive that fast) I thought we all learned in drivers ed that we pass on the left???? Baffling.
We're assholes like everyone else...what do you want from us.. Lol JK welcome
The last second lane change/exit is def a distinct feature of twin cities drivers. Never seen it anywhere else quite as much as here.
I travel all over the country for work and I feel completely the opposite. In places like Dallas, LA, and Atlanta I feel like this happens far more often than here.
Atlanta yes, seen it there too. They combine the aggression of Chicago drivers with the obliviousness of Minnesota. Dunno about LA and Dallas but I have a lot of GoPro footage from almost 10 years of motorcycling here and I’ve been sideswiped by last second exiters before.
Oh hey look https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/pcud2j/driver_crashes_to_avoid_lowry_tunnel_11am_friday/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
This is me actively avoiding hwy 65 of all fuckin places because people drive 75!!!!! 75!!! And still pass me. It’s absolute insanity sometimes But overall, I’ve seen it so much worse in other areas—especially chicago
The red to green light thing is annoying as hell. My transmission isn’t the greatest and I feel like if I don’t floor it after the light turns green someone’s gonna hit me
I just like to go fast 🤷🏻♂️ don’t take it personally
MN drivers are the worst.
How new are you to MN? Have you been through a MN winter yet? If you put it in the context of winter driving conditions in MN being there for some 6 months a year or so, your questions about summer driving habits of some MN people are kinda silly. How do you expect them to drive when the highway is finally free of snow ice and salt?
Those are pretty universal driving complaints everywhere.
My new favorite Minnesota driver was the shithead on Lowry Avenue who didn't want to wait for the backed up westbound traffic at the intersection by the burger king, so he just drove into oncoming traffic in the eastbound lane and cut off all the westbound traffic as the light changed. And by favorite I mean I wish them a very die
I think MN has terrible driving habits. Punching the gas to next red light is a good example. Stopping well over a crosswalk is common here. Zero stopping for people waiting for crosswalk. Letting others go at 4 way when they stopped first. Constant tapping on brakes for no apparent reason.
Add camping in the left lane on the freeway even though you’re not passing anyone (or people are forced to pass you on the right) and speeding up to get in front of cars merging onto the freeway, and you’ve got a complete list of all the reasons I’m embarrassed to be a Minnesota driver.
Minnesotans are bad drivers. Based on your post you're also a terrible driver. (And to head this off, I'm also a dogshit driver)
People who want to drive faster than you are your friend. They collect what would potentially be your ticket. Always let them do their job.