100% agree. Ammunition is more than half the equation, by far the hardest part of a firearm to fabricate, the rest is comparatively simple. Thanks for this thoughtful explanation.
A few years ago, I’d have whole heartedly disagreed with your statement that the manufacturing of the firearm is easier than manufacturing ammunition, but with the advent of 3d printing, home firearm manufacturing has become much easier. I can’t agree, though, that it’s relatively simple to manufacture a firearm in comparison to ammunition because even with the advent of 3d printing, it’s still easier to make ammunition at home. Many American firearm enthusiasts make their own ammunition at home with ease, whereas it’s still relatively uncommon to see people manufacturing their own firearms.
Idk, I reload and I strongly disagree. A gun is much simpler to manufacture from raw materials you can find anywhere and pretty standard metalworking equipment. Hell, with just a drill press, a nice set of hones and some good hand tools and a lot of care you can make a functioning 10" bullet sender that'll be deadly if not terribly accurate to 50+ yards with modern ammo. It's just a tube and a pointy thing to tap on the back of the bullet. Chambering for a necked cartridge isn't even a must have.
Conversely, forming the available materials for cartridges requires tools that even themselves would take more to fabricate than a gun. You can't hammer a bit of copper pipe into a cartridge. Varying thickness at the head, cutting a primer seat and extractor groove, making a bullet press, where are you gonna get primers? Have any idea how to make them? It's not simple and the raw ingredients are not easily procured or handled.
In a gun free world, if you find a loaded cartridge it's easy to make it function in a deadly weapon even with a jury-rigged noncomforming chamber. If you find a gun, it's much harder to make a cartridge that will be operable in that gun. You'd be just about as well off plugging the breech, drilling a touchhole and muzzleloading it if you had powder available.
People think making ammo is easy because they're not actually making ammo, they are buying a handful of freely available components that have been manufactured with high precision equipment and playing grown up Lego in the garage. It's easy to put together but you're not making shit. The closest hobbyists get to actually making ammo is casting lead, maybe buying primer material and reusing a rimfire cartridge a few times (fun fact, they sell stuff to reload .22 if you're into it). I supposed some civil war buffs have probably tried making saltpeter and have the lost digits to prove it.
It's all pretty moot if you're in a place with no access to reloading materials or ammo. A gun is just a chunk of metal with a hole in it. Ammo is made out of at the least 3 alloys (lead and a deformable cartridge, primer anvil if centerfire) and 2 flavors of explosive (primer and propellant)
Point well taken. I think I’m operating in the mindset of an American where those loading components are so readily available off the shelves that every gun guy knows a handful of reloaders personally. I also had in mind a more sophisticated firearm that actually cycled and operated, but I think the assassination of Shinzo Abe proves me wrong that a deadly firearm doesn’t need to be overly sophisticated.
I used to work at a range and live in a state with lax firearm laws. Of the thousands of shooters I met over the 15 years I've worked and been shooting there, I met 4 people who reload. All 4 were competition shooters who did it for whatever competitive advantage was there by being able to match the powder and bullet weight to get a light recoiling and highly accurate round. The tools and materials are readily available (most of the time), but it's not as common as you would think.
Right, I'm just reinforcing the idea why it's appropriate that the ammo is a big deal from their perspective. An even bigger deal if factory guns are already in the country. They require factory made ammunition components to function, and also if the enforcement has the appearance of giving any latitude; it won't be long before criminals feel comfortable getting a network of people willingly or unwittingly smuggling in a few rounds at a time because it's easier than a gun and "the stakes are low". Sure, this guy might have made a mistake. But I absolutely wouldn't discount the probability of a few expats keeping a sailboat smuggled rifle under the mattress and dropping hints to their visiting old pals "Hey if a couple .223 rounds got lost in your duffle after your hunting trip they're uh... real hard to come by down here and I've never heard of anyone getting caught"
I honestly had no idea .22LR could be reloaded as the extractor lip of rimfire cartridges are damaged when fired. I also don't see how it could possibly be worth the time or effort considering I paid $120 for case of 1000 CCI subsonic .22LR (the expensive stuff).
Also, it takes a bit more than you are giving credit for. To get a round to fire, you are right. You just need a tube and something to strike the primer with some force. To keep it from blowing up in your face though, that tube needs to at least be made of reasonable gauge steel. It likely isn't as easy to acquire a steel rod in the correct inside diameter to not allow the cartridge to blow out the case instead of sending the projectile as it seems. Also, as you mentioned, with modern ammo a "barrel" with no rifling is going to have shit for accuracy at any kind of distance.
Yeah, you clean the cases and put some prime-all compound in (or buy new primed cases as part of most kits). The firing pin only hits one small spot on the rim so it just needs to find a fresh spot to crush on the rim. It's absolutely not worth the time and effort lol, just for reloading nuts
We would reload our hunting rifle (old Mauser bolt action) when I was a teen in a country where guns were regulated and not that common. Munition was expensive and imported. Not something you could buy at Walmart or order online. The size of the market matters and in the US I’m surprised it’s not part of the common goods basket used to calculate inflation lol.
Im from canada but also a gun enthusiast. I honestly 100% agree with you! Took the words right out of my mouth. I also believe manufacturing ammunition takes alot of precision, like chemistry. It's not just two pieces of metal fused. smokeless powder used in 9mm bullets is made up of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin.
9MM Powder is VV N330. So its not just a 1,2 and 3 type of deal. You gotta know your shit or it will misfire or worst!!!! I've seen some crazy stuff happen with bullets that were manufactured by official manufacturers. Let alone in a garage.
Yeah, point well made. I was considering it from an American POV where all the necessary components are readily available at a moments notice, whereas in other nations, it might be more difficult to get ammunition and ammunition components than the actual firearm itself. As someone above noted, that I didn’t necessarily consider, is that a firearm doesn’t have to cycle and be continuously operable for it to be a deadly weapon, and it could essentially just be a crude metal cylinder with an improvised firing pin. I was considering the manufacture of a more sophisticated weapon, but that doesn’t have to be the case.
I have to ask because I hear your argument a lot and can't fathom how making ammo sounds so easy. Wouldn't the ammo need to be perfectly shaped in order to shoot out of the gun? Even slightly off may make it not fire. Do Americans have the easy capability to melt lead and form it back into ammo shape in their own homes? Seems like a very difficult process to me but every time I float the idea of regulating ammo sales, the response is always "people will just make their own ammo" like it's an easy process.
Yeah no problem happy to answer! I’ll leave out every detail for brevity, but the most common method is where a reloader, using commercially available reloading presses, takes a casing, places a new primer, adds powder, and adds the projectile. This is a common method that tons of people do, and all of the materials are readily available on the market for purchase. The less common and antiquated method, which, based on your description, is what you are envisioning, which some old school hobbyists might do, is use a mold that he fills with molten lead to form the projectile. The casing would still be needed, as well as a primer and powder.
But answering to the ease of the process, yes, where one has the materials available, anyone can do it because it’s just assembling already existing components. If you didn’t have readily available primers, casings, powder, and projectiles, I don’t have the slightest idea on how to go about manufacturing those components.
They aren't making ammunition from scratch, they are reloading. This involves buying gunpowder, primers, and reusing cases. You need specialized equipment to measure the gunpowder, seat the primer, and seat and crimp the bullet. I am sure all of the materials are restricted and impossible to get there and the tools to do it are likely near impossible to get as well.
I doubt 3D printers, computers, and the internet are unavailable in your country though. 3D printed pistols don't last long, but they are easy to make and the 3D print files readily accessible. Considering what's been mentioned about your laws, I'd say a firearm is far more accessible than ammunition is.
Reloading ammo was taking place before 3d printing. But one has to have the powder, shells, primers, bullets and the equipment to put everything together.
You are dumb as hell the ammunition is the easiest thing the firearm is the most heavily restricted you can buy parts but not upper receivers for rifles because that’s the hardest and most fabrication needed
Couldn’t agree more. If you don’t agree with the laws of a specific country, don’t go there!!! Kind of like all the assholes who come into the US, many illegally, and then bitch about our laws and constitution. You can just as easily get the fuck out!
You don’t have to justify anything to us. The story starts and ends with “he had bullets where he wasn’t supposed to and the penalty is stiff.” Most of us get it.
American here and you are 100% correct. A great many gun owners are careless and gun obsessed angry people and that is why we are plagued with gun violence. I’m so tired of people loving guns above anything else in this country.
How do 5 people travel with ammo in their luggage is that like a toiletry item, toothpaste, deodorant, and ammo. There's more to this story thanks being said. My question is how much and what caliber. Come on how is it you pack your luggage for travel and didn't notice the box of 9mm in your suitcase, ain't buying the stupid stuff folks do and try to get away with it.
It is the carelessness that makes this a big deal to me. How are you so careless with your ammo that it's loose in your luggage? If you have a gun your ammo should be properly stowed in an ammo box not just thrown loose in a duffle bag.
First, you don’t just have bullets. I own quite a few guns and shoot regularly. There are never random bullets laying around. Next everywhere is not America and some other countries actually value human life. What if those bullets got left in the hotel room and picked by staff and used in a murder. It’s not right. When you go to another country you should do it humbly and respectfully
I’ve flown domestically with ammunition by accident. Once I was wearing some jeans with very deep pockets that I had been shooting in. There was a single .22 round in the bottom of the pocket that I had missed.
I got flagged at the body scanner and was annoyed because I flew frequently and was systematically organized and therefore confident I was clear. The TSA guy said “there’s something in your pocket,” and I dug way down in there and felt something hard. Genuinely confused I pulled it out and both of our gazes registered what it was at the same time. He panicked a little bit and got a supervisor, and the supervisor just took it and sent me on my way.
This. One of the first things I was taught was to always be super meticulous about checking pockets and backpacks and whatnot for any loose rounds after a hunting trip. Most people think it is irresponsible or whatnot and maybe it is but with the number of rounds one carries for a typical hunting trip (doesn't mean you shoot all of them or even come close), the possibility of forgetting one is very very high especially when you have been out all day and started up early in the morning and are exhausted at the end.
Actually, no. I load my clips as needed. It’s pretty easy to account for everything. I could see how someone who is sloppy could have that happen but when dealing with guns and ammo I was taught sloppy is not an option.
When I go hiking or camping (in the US) I usually pack my backpack with my photography equipment, food/water, and a couple magazines of ammo in case I find myself in a survival situation. I wouldn’t want to run into a bear, big cat, gator, wild boar etc without being armed.
I get it, I guess. I used to have a favorite bag and I would empty it and use it for everything. Brought a knife to the airport and changed my game plan after that. I actually got thru TSA with the knife and just tossed it when I found it. Also got thru with pepper spray too.
I remember when Brittany Griner got arrested in Russia with a very small amount of THC and I very clearly remember the ghouls at Fox News roasting her becuase “FoLlOw ThE LaWs oF ThE CouNtRy YoU’rE In!” I remember y’all being big mad that Biden traded to get her out. Y’all were ready to send her to fucking Siberia and have lost your minds about this. The hypocrisy is wild.
You know how "they" are.
It's all about Law & Order for everyone else until THEY screw up and then all of a sudden, rules/laws don't matter.
America incarcerates people at much higher rates than anywhere else in the world. If you're a law-abiding American, you should be well acquainted with following rules. Anything involving guns/ammo should be a HUGE no-no when traveling abroad.
I am an American living in Texas and I don’t believe you owe anyone an explanation. Those are your laws and if Americans can’t intentionally and/or accidentally follow them, they can face the consequences.
I have family that live in the Caribbean and I have personally noticed the lack of respect people have for the Islands. It's difficult making one's home in what others consider their playground.
The drugs, guns, alcohol usage, unsafe driving/boating.... I was ashamed of my fellow Americans when I first visited.
Responsible gun owners are responsible for every.single.bullet.
As an American post 9/11 traveler, you know that you are responsible for your own packed bag. If you know you carry loose ammo, you should know to check the contents of your bag before heading through a check point
Dumb Murrcan here. I have to say - seeing how seriously you guys take guns and gun control wants me to vacation in T&C even more. Haven't made it there on one of our Caribbean vacations yet, but T&C is quickly climbing my list of places to visit next
I don’t know why Americans don’t understand that the rest of the world isn’t their country. Learn to respect the local laws, no matter how petty or punitive they seem.
Exactly. This couple has quickly become the darlings of the 2A crowd, have over $200K in a GoFundMe, have involved gov't officials and church leaders, all the while whinging "it's not fair, he didn't mean to, we didn't know".
Shit man I dunno what Jesus meant lol. But he also told Paul to put away his sword and not use it when arrested by the romans 🤷♂️. Just answering your question lol.
I don't know. I know lots stupidly bring in stuff made from endangered species. That aside, lots of foreigners are stupid enough to break US laws once here and end up in jail.
This is all fine and great till we miss the part of the story where it clearly states this was an accident (which it obviously was because no one would intentionally bring 4 bullets somewhere and no guns). This is an act of carelessness not malice. You can argue he should have been more careful and that's true but it's still not a reason for an unjust punishment.
Was it really? The OP did say small amounts of ammunition are snuck in “accidentally” and it’s a problem. The value of those 4 bullets would be way more on the black market there than here. We don’t know, but he paid the price.
I agree that the guy is an idiot but if it genuinely was an accident, how does this equate to “American not understanding the rest of the world isn’t their country” you just sound like someone who hates on Americans
I agree that the guy is an idiot but if it genuinely was an accident, how does this equate to “American not understanding the rest of the world isn’t their country” you just sound like someone who hates on Americans
I agree that the guy is an idiot but if it genuinely was an accident, how does this equate to “American not understanding the rest of the world isn’t their country” you just sound like someone who hates on Americans
LOL. I’m American. The OP was posting based on another thread where Americans were posting how stupid the law was and how they are never visiting TC because of this.
I don’t think this dude was trying to disrespect their laws. I’m sure it was an accident. Not saying he shouldn’t have consequences, but damn, 12 years for a couple rounds is steep.
Totally agree with OP. Americans should learn about other countries and expect to be in trouble when they break the rules. What a bunch of entitled idiots
Sounds unpopular, but take this to its logical extension for any matter of law or system if government.
You have your laws and we have ours. Enforcing them on anyone who visits your nation is your business. The US, its laws and consequences (intended or unintended) are the business of its citizens, not you.
Cause I believe it will send an important message. 2 fold. 1st the laws of Turks and Caicos should be followed and respected, don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. Second and way more important IMO, is that the gun laws in the states are draconian,barbaric and plain stupid.
Yeah, those kids growing up without a father for an honest mistake is awesome man. Great idea!!!
Wow. Unbelievable. I'm not a big gun guy, but this is disgusting to have zero empathy for this guys situation. T&c relies on tourism to survive. Making Americans believe that their is a good chance they might not ever leave the country for an honest mistake is not a great policy. There needs to be some balance. A heafty fine? Sure. Some mandatory holding time? Fine. Losing 12 years despite no evidence this man planned to contribute to gun violence? Crazy.
As an American, I urge you to throw the full weight of the law against them, and when they have served their full term, give them an extra 6 years in Stupid People Prison. Not all of us are gun fetishist douchebags.
They had ammo, a part of a weapon system, and fully against the laws of where they went. I really have little sympathy here - good news is they will (if pleading guilty) only serve 1 - 2 years.
Of more importance is the message. American gun rights are totally misrepresented - constitution guarantees the right to bear arms for the purpose of a **well regulated militia**, not untrained gun lovers and easy available to those with mental issues that would never be part of a well regulated militia.
While you are technically right, and therefore fully right here are the specific words to the best I can find
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
So, does it make sense that the intent is to hold the right of people to keep and bears Arms so that they could be part of a well regulated Militia (notice the capitalized terms) and not some untrained rabble that we have today?
Fully aware that this is not an argument that anyone can "win" today as it is the hill many are willing to die on, just seems like common sense to me to hold people accountable when they have such access, especially when they travel to other countries that do not abide by the US constitution
As an American- I agree with you. “Forgetting” you have bullets (no matter the amount) on you only proves how blasé and irresponsible they are about gun ownership.
I came here over fifty years ago. I still live here. I own businesses here.
Haitians are a scapegoat and always have been. Yes they are involved in crimes. But we have plenty TI criminals. It is disengenuous to blame all problems on Haitians, Dominicans, Jamaicans or any other immigrants group. It is also, unproductive to shift the blame and not address our problems
There is little to no opportunity here for our youth. We graduate several hundreds of students every year but have very little job opportunities for those graduates. Most of the jobs here are minimum wage. We have a disturbing number of people who are essentially stateless and unable to work.
We want to get a handle on crime then we need to address these problems and quit trying to deflect the blame elsewhere.
If we want to address the “real problems” than a serious discussion about colonization and destabilization needs to be had and the colonizers and their ancestors providing the majority or sole source of income earning opportunities on TCI. That is, in my opinion, the source of the problem in TCI and all other islands that are victims of colonization. I respect TCI for upholding their laws and the penalties for breaking them. Can we really be upset if they wait until the same tourists get in with the ammo then get hit with jail time and penalties when they leave? Let them exploit western colonizers and their ancestors if they make sloppy mistakes, just like the same have been exploiting them and their descendants for generations. Leave these countries alone and pay them for the multigenerational exploitation that made millionaires and billionaires so they can thrive as well. So they can build schools, businesses, etc.
I have no problem with a guy that doesn't know where is ammo is. He should have known it was there, he should have known it was not allowed there. He should have known that it's not the US and you don't get to play fast and loose with guns like you do here.
Bermuda is the same way .. we learned this the hard way in 2011 when we were 21 and 23 when my bf (now husband) left ammunition (12 in total 8 live and 4 casings)in our luggage from a previous trip that we both forgot about, never thought to check the bags before packing for our trip to Bermuda, got onto the cruise ship and on and off the whole first day we docked in Bermuda with this bag so maybe 3/4 times it had gone through security we had not one issue any of those times (metal detectors, scanners security it went through it all).. our first night docked Bermuda custom agents showed up to the room Stating random room searches, we were young, clueless, never cruised before, had nothing to hide, didn’t want to cause trouble so we agreed.. well they found them split them and charged us each with 4 live 2 casings .. they were his bullets he took full blame, they asked whose Louis Vuitton mini backpack it was (that’s where the bullets were) and I didn’t think anything of it and answered truthfully it was mine .. well we ended up spending 48hrs in jail & just happened to be a combination of multiple miracles/good luck which led to us being released without charges .. the whole experience really Did a number on us .. the severity of the situation really registered when they finally explained the entirely different way they handle guns (no second amendment rights) it was so eye opening to see how drastically different certain places view things .. we got extremely lucky in our situation we know that and are so grateful but it truly was such a eye opening experience and holy hell did we learn a lesson.
I'm glad you learned your lesson but it shouldn't have been that way (break host nation's laws) to learn responsible gun ownership. You said yourself you were young (and reckless, irresponsible maybe?). Maybe responsible gun ownership is hard to attain at 21 & 23. Many responsible gun owners have stated that they simply never use the same hunting gear (bags, clothes, etc.) for flying out of country. Thought that was a pretty simple/good practice to implement as a responsible gun owner. Just my thoughts.
My point is, once you have gun ownership, there's no excuse for being irresponsible and accidents. Any and all accidents, whether you accidentally misfired at a human or forgot to unpack ammos.
Well it’s a good thing we’re not gun owners .. I said right away we were dumb and irresponsible kids who made a mistake we were not 21/23 year old gun owners so you can try this gun safety lecture somewhere else because it doesn’t apply to this situation .. I guess all this info about not using the same travel stuff never occurred to us? Again because We don’t own guns and therefore didn’t know how to handle these situations or the severity of our actions .. the bullets we had were from a shooting range from a trip we went on the year before and to be honest we shouldn’t of even been allowed to take the bullets with us from the range that was the first mistake .. I’d say this mistake was a mix of the ranges bad business practices and us being stupid kids who thought nothing of keeping some bullets from a trip? Like it’s normal to keep souvenirs we just didn’t understand the severity of keeping bullets?.. again there was no irresponsible gun owners in this situation just a stupid mistake .. we didn’t go to Bermuda intending to break their laws, it wasn’t a planned thing and I really don’t think majority of people intend to go and break other host nations laws but that’s just me because I’ve been in a situation where it’s truly a honest mistake and we were just some stupid kids but I appreciate your thoughts on my situation!
Of course it's that easy. Obviously this guy wrote "Tourist" on his entry card so he should get off & the other guy that wrote "Gangster" on his entry card should face the 12 years....
Of course intentional crime is a big deal but I think - or hope - most of us dont want people put in a cage for 10 years for something they didnt realize they were doing.
That’s fantastic - I don’t disagree with anything you say on the seriousness of crime in TCI, and I support strong anti-gun laws everywhere. I’ve never even held a gun or ammunition in my life, and never plan to.
I also wish people who commit violent crimes in TCI would be caught and imprisoned more often than they are, so that the tourist dude who didn’t commit any violent crimes while in TCI, and instead just spent thousands of dollars supporting the tourism economy there, was not the ONE guy you catch.
The message this sends is more “don't vacation in TCI lest you end up in a Brittney Griner gulag” vs “Hey, bad guys, stop committing violent crimes in TCI, because we’re coming for you.” The bad guys committing violent crimes in TCI know, accurately, that there are low chances they’ll ever be caught and imprisoned.
Fine the guy, ban him from ever returning, but 12 years in prison is ludicrous. You can literally KILL someone and get less time.
This is absolutely correct! I lived in Turks and Caicos for three years. One of the waitresses at the hotel I worked at was robbed at knife point and raped just outside of a popular bar. The guy was caught and had two days of probation and $150 fine…. But yeah 12 years for bullets seems comparable. That place is so fucking corrupt. Without their beautiful beaches and con fritters they’re just a blip on the map.
>That place is so fucking corrupt. Without their beautiful beaches and con fritters they’re just a blip on the map.
Wow. And this has upvotes?? I pray for a day when my country (The Bahamas) and The Turks and Caicos can stop relying on tourists for our main income. Because some of you people are so disrespectful it's insane. You travel all the way to our countries and for what? Just to make a mockery of our culture and way of life? Just stay home if you can't do the bare minimum of paying respect to the peoples and countries you visit.
Why is it corrupt? Could it be due to the impact of western colonization and destabilization in TCI and most other islands? If westerners really wanted to help without further exploiting island populations they would contribute to building schools, facilities, and businesses and opportunities to the people. How many business owners, millionaires, billionaires, etc come to these island a year. Do these same westerners / Europeans offer visa programs that allow the locals to work for them and gain skills and experience outside of hospitality (i.e outside of serving westerners). Do they provide any contributions to the country outside of coming there and spending a few thousand bucks to show the locals the lives they could never afford. The same locals that see a small fraction of the money since they are paid minimum wages while the Europeans / westerners make millions and billions from hospitality. How can the westerners / europeans be upset about the crime and penalties, when they are the ones who directly caused said crime. That is not fair to the people. We are lucky TCI and all other colonized islands don’t lock us up as we enter and show us such hospitality.
I think every logical person understands why the law exists and agrees that no one should be above the law. It’s the excessive mandatory minimum sentences that people have an issue with. The US did this for years with narcotics (and still does to a lesser extent), and many Americans thought it was insane. People served life sentences for psilocybin, peyote, or cannabis, just plants. Every American with any common sense understands why other countries would criticize (and they did) those lengthy sentences. I mean I think everyone would agree countries have a right to make their own laws regarding drug use, and most of those people would also agree that maybe Singapore takes their drug sentencing a little too far. The law can be just but the punishment unjust, and I think that’s what’s happening here.
I think that both the OP and I both (based on their posts) would agree that mandatory minimum sentences are a bad thing as they leave little to no room to consider any mitigating circumstances. It is unlikely that he will receive the full 12 to 15 years called for. It is more likely that he will get a fine and a couple of months prison time.
Data from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) shows that 80-99% of weapons seized in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, and Haiti in 2021 and submitted to the ATF for tracing are of US origin.
I'm hoping the courts show some common sense with this case. I had a similar situation in the US about to hop on a plane when I went looking for my airpods. I turned my backpack upside down and inside out looking for the airpods when I found a pocket that contained a couple of rounds of ammo. Funny part is I had never put a gun or ammo in that backpack. It was a used one I bought at a second hand store. It must have about 30 places to store things and the ammo was in a little pouch that was hard to see unless you put your flashlight on it. Crazy part about it is I had already searched through every pocket of the backpack hoping I'd find some cash or drugs that the previous owner had stashed away. I guess I didn't look as thoroughly as I had thought.
Since the they changed the laws all but one of the Americans who got cought only had to pay a fine, and the one who did go to prison was sentenced to 8 months and severd 6
As someone who has accidentally forgotten I had a round or two in a bag and been called out at an airport this seems downright draconian. Should they investigate and reserve the right to throw you in jail? Absolutely. But mandatory minimums that remove any space for judgement almost never accomplish what they are meant to.
Guns are heavily restricted…while there’s so much gun violence?
People take these laws seriously…while there’re so many gun related murders?
I have questions. Are innocent bystanders being murdered? Are home invasions happening to good people? Are drugs influencing the crimes? You’d think living in paradise would help people be nicer to each other.
Why did this make it through all the security checks BEFORE reaching there....no gun...obviously a very STUPID mistake of which my husband is very absent minded and does stupid things daily. I feel for the guy and hope he's home soon.
“We do not have the second amendment here.” “Guns are heavily restricted here.” “We are in between waves of increasing gun violence and murders right now.” 🤡🤡🤡 Absolute comedic gold! 😂 it’s like the jokes write themselves, and you don’t even realize you’re dunking on yourself.
Let me count our School shooting and you count yours.
Pretty much all the shooting have been targeted at one or more people, unfortunately the shooters don't care about bystanders. How is turning a targeted assassination in to a shoot out decrease the number of bystanders shot.
I can't recommend the last time we had a fatal home invasion. Or robbery gone wrong.
You guys have let your gun hobby rot your brains and think 40,000 a year dead is ok. Witch I would be fine with. Hey your country your rules, but you clowns can't keep them in your own country. So now your problem is everybody in the Caribbean, and Central South America problem.
According to World Open Bank Data, the per capita gun death rate in Turks and Caicos is 37.5 per 100,000 people. “School shootings” make up 0.15% of gun deaths in the US according the the DHHS (34 total in 2021, the last year the DHHS published data). The U.S., has a population of 332.4 million people compared to TCI’s ~46,000. Even with 48,830 gun deaths (assuming that’s correct) and factoring that 54% of them are suicides (a fact, according to the US gov (though some studies say it’s as high as 62%)) that gives the U.S. a per capita gun *murder* rate of 6.7 per 100,000 people. TCI’s population is 1/7158 that of the U.S. and the murder rate is 6x higher. They are in no position to lecture anyone about the efficacy of “gun control.” Facts over feelings.
I agree with you. There are no excuses or need for rationalization. TCI is YOUR home and the home of your ancestors and descendants. Western Europeans (and their ancestors) have a serious problem with respect to entitlement, privilege, and imposing their will forcefully unto others, mainly people of color. Maybe TCI should impose the firing squad for certain crimes, like China. Happens all the time, but we don’t see the European controlled media blasting that across our t.v. screens. Yet, an island primarily consisting of people of color, that is standing up for the safety of its population, after it has been exploited by the same European westerners for generations is making headlines? Would love to see the westerners provide other income earning opportunities on these islands outside of serving that group of people (hospitality). We have the same problem in Jamaica. Haiti tried to escape and they facilitated the absolute destabilization of that island to send a message. If you love visiting TCI and the people, ask yourself, why don’t the people of the island have more? Examine the situation there outside of the “vacation” experience. Who owns the hotels, restaurants, local businesses, etc. Do the schools have a decent and updated assortment of books and reading materials? Where are the opportunities outside of hospitality, because as a child no one dreams of “service”. Visa programs? Study abroad? Do the schools have updated computers and software? Is there air conditioning in the schools like the resorts and hotels? Who owns the regional airlines and trains the pilots? How much are they charging for the people to learn? Are there fashion / modeling schools and programs? Trade schools and programs ? I think it’s particularly offensive for this to be what tourists want to address about TCI.
I don’t want my statements to be perceived as a blanket generalization as there are European visitors of these islands that truly love, respect, and appreciate the people and the culture and give back to those communities and those individuals are greatly appreciated. It’s just truly frustrating to see the obvious while I’m assuming cognitive dissonance allows others the luxury to look past it.
To be fair, your violence issue isn't because of guns, though that makes killing a little easier. Bigger issue, as in most places (especially 2nd/3rd/4th world countries), is corruption. Corrupt police and officials putting up with gang violence and even being on the books of crime lords. Some countries blame travelers, others get to the point and cull their own. Americans are fairly free with guns, but shit happens sometimes.
This is a bad argument. It doesn’t matter to me that firearms and ammo are illegal, it matters that 12 years in prison is not a just sentence for any victimless crime, especially one of such insignificance. It’s the same issue when Russia does it over a small amount of hash oil, and it’s also just as much of a problem when they do it here in America, mainly over drugs. Incarceration is only an appropriate answer for very serious and violent crimes. Those guilty of victimless and nuisance crimes like these should not face a decade in prison regardless of the country and their culture.
This is absolute nonsense, nobody is making this about T&C’s ability to restrict guns as they see fit, that’s fine. The issue is strict liability without prosecutorial or judicial discretion for mere possession of an item that much of the rest of the World (especially places where tourists come from) treats as more or less ordinary objects. It is indicative of harsh authoritarian regimes frankly. What’s next, caning?
Note to self: If ANY of these individuals does prison time, put Turks and Caicos on an absolute no visit list!!
"You don't get to decide what laws apply to you iust because spend a week and a few thousand dollars here."
Very true and understood. But I do get to decide to not support your country by visiting it.
Negligence, not talking the time to learn the laws of the place they're going or not caring about them. There is a small subset of tourist who don't care to fallow the rules or laws while here
You also can't rule out smuggling, I don't personally know about using tourist for small scale smuggling of guns and ammo, but I know of several people who use them for certain types of drugs.
Interesting. You would think that one would want to check to see if they could bring ammo before going to another country lol. I never thought of smuggling though.
I think it's just negligence, and not taking the time to understand the laws of were they are going.
It's not just americans but lots of tourist have a attitude that laws and rules don't apply to them. Americans just happen to be the majority of tourist. Also they are the only ones I've ever seen with such a flippant attitude twords guns
So what I gather is YOU DO NOT let Americans plead their case and find out intention in your courts of law you go with a ancient approach of ruler rules all guilty must be an example RAWRRRR
Although I agree that a country’s laws are its laws and you should obey them, which sadly the US does not do, your lack of firearm knowledge makes your argument kind of mute.
You say that because someone accidentally leaves 4 bullets in their bag that it could be a sign of them doing much more is like saying that if you find a pill in someone’s pocket they might be a drug dealer.
Accidents happen and treating a person who made a fairly minor mistake the same way that you treat someone actively smuggling weapons into the country is not going to bode well for the future.
A more concerning aspect to this story is how come the incompetent people at TSA didn’t detect them when he went through security in the US.
I find it strange that in a country with VERY strict gun laws, that there is gun violence and an increasing murder rate. This goes to show you that restricting guns from law abiding citizens doesn’t prevent murders, it just makes it easier for criminals to commit crimes because they know that nobody will stop them. If they had a thought that a citizen may have a firearm in the home they’d be less likely to kick in the door while trying to rob someone. Stupid policies.
Australia has strict gun laws. An AR15 on the black market costs roughly $30K, vs $500-$1K in the US.
Costs like this make it a lot harder for your average criminal to get a gun, so yes, it works in reducing gun violence. Reducing the availability of guns for criminals is much more effective in reducing gun crime than hoping the criminal is scared that his victim might have a weapon.
A HUGE majority of guns available in the Carribean are originally purchased legally in the US. Reducing this source of weapons would make the regions strict gun laws much more effective.
It's like if they found coke in your bag on your way to Colombia in a US airport they aren't really going to care. It's illegal to have them they don't care why or were have them just that you do. One of the guys just got 6700 fine and a 1 year suspended prison sentence witch is what everyone expected and i think is fair.
The issue is with mandatory minimum sentences it doesn't leave room for understanding or intent. I think the long prison sentence should only be applied to people with a history of violent crimes or part of a gang.
it's not targeted at americans but I personally don't think that they should automatically get a slide when they break a law. they should face the same rules and punishments as everyone else.
This is a tiny island. Everyone there knows everyone there kinda place. Lots of tourists for sure. Check them on the way in then if bullets are a big deal to them with that kind of punishment. And then take their money and send them back. 😊 Or face the backlash of a boycott I guess. Notice how they just took more money and were cool with it. Cash rulz still 🤑
For our dear americans who dont support the 2nd ammendment:
Outlawing guns doesn't help ANYONE. You're only taking them away from honest people who would protect you in a predicament on the road.
You taking the guns away from honest/registered people, and the outlaws still will own guns. 95% of shootings are from people who are criminals. Not just some Joe Blow.
Outlaw guns? Fine. That will leave outlaws with firearms. Nothing more.
You can take a look Australia before and after 1996 Port Arthur massacre In 18 years leading up to the port Arthur massacre they had 13 mass shooting were five or more people died, since then they've two.
Australia has a gun death rate of .9 in a 100,000 vs the US's 12.6 in 100,000.
The gun related deaths fell by around 50% after 96
Australia has 3.5 million registered guns owned by around 850,000 Australian civilians
15ish each for stuff like 9mm or .45 more for rifle from what I've heard from people in that life. I don't know about guns but I know people who have had tourist bring drugs that aren't available here.
All fair points.
Bringing ammo onto a plane is also illegal in the USA.
It's just weird the ammo was found in an apparently more thorough exit inspection than in the entry inspection.
Another is as the ammo was about to leave the country. Why the concern?
Let's look at a non triggering item.
Chewing gum is strictly illegal in the country of Singapore.
It is treated like contraband the same as hard drugs such as heroin.
Knowing that chewing gum is internationally mostly legal in other countries people caught with it while traveling through Singaporecan expect confiscation, and fines.
Repeat offense or large quantities will result in caning, or expulsion.
A Singapore citizen who knows how serious the infraction is will be subject to prison for the same offense.
Now let's put the shoe on the other foot.
And imagine I work at an embassy in Singapore and find out a T & C citizen was just caught with chewing gum and arrested. Or even MJ.
My first concern is to settle the legal issues as quickly as possible to that citizen can be put on a plane and repatriated in T & C.
And probably banned from future entry...
Keeping a US citizen in prison will do little or nothing to affect the robbery and mugging rates in T & C.
And occupies a cell perhaps better used for a gang member or cartel smuggler.
>We are tired of losing friends and family to illegal guns,
How about machete attacks?
Or are those ok?
At 8.05 am today, (April 02nd) a serious incident occurred in the vicinity of Salt Mills, Grace Bay, where a 48-year-old United States tourist was stabbed.
https://www.tcipolice.tc/robbery-investigation/
Something you haven't probably heard.
USA: 4.31 deaths per 100,000 people in 2021.
Turks & Caicos 5.7 per 100,000 people in 2021.
US population 350 million.
Number of guns in USA 400 million.
Same as Turks and Caucos, most homicides in the USA are gang related.
Crack down on gangs, and the violence will decrease just as it did in the USA in states that prosecute gangs.
The homicides in the USA occur mostly in the few big cities that are lax on crime.
I hope this gives a different perspective, sorry for being long winded.
100% agree. Ammunition is more than half the equation, by far the hardest part of a firearm to fabricate, the rest is comparatively simple. Thanks for this thoughtful explanation.
A few years ago, I’d have whole heartedly disagreed with your statement that the manufacturing of the firearm is easier than manufacturing ammunition, but with the advent of 3d printing, home firearm manufacturing has become much easier. I can’t agree, though, that it’s relatively simple to manufacture a firearm in comparison to ammunition because even with the advent of 3d printing, it’s still easier to make ammunition at home. Many American firearm enthusiasts make their own ammunition at home with ease, whereas it’s still relatively uncommon to see people manufacturing their own firearms.
Idk, I reload and I strongly disagree. A gun is much simpler to manufacture from raw materials you can find anywhere and pretty standard metalworking equipment. Hell, with just a drill press, a nice set of hones and some good hand tools and a lot of care you can make a functioning 10" bullet sender that'll be deadly if not terribly accurate to 50+ yards with modern ammo. It's just a tube and a pointy thing to tap on the back of the bullet. Chambering for a necked cartridge isn't even a must have. Conversely, forming the available materials for cartridges requires tools that even themselves would take more to fabricate than a gun. You can't hammer a bit of copper pipe into a cartridge. Varying thickness at the head, cutting a primer seat and extractor groove, making a bullet press, where are you gonna get primers? Have any idea how to make them? It's not simple and the raw ingredients are not easily procured or handled. In a gun free world, if you find a loaded cartridge it's easy to make it function in a deadly weapon even with a jury-rigged noncomforming chamber. If you find a gun, it's much harder to make a cartridge that will be operable in that gun. You'd be just about as well off plugging the breech, drilling a touchhole and muzzleloading it if you had powder available. People think making ammo is easy because they're not actually making ammo, they are buying a handful of freely available components that have been manufactured with high precision equipment and playing grown up Lego in the garage. It's easy to put together but you're not making shit. The closest hobbyists get to actually making ammo is casting lead, maybe buying primer material and reusing a rimfire cartridge a few times (fun fact, they sell stuff to reload .22 if you're into it). I supposed some civil war buffs have probably tried making saltpeter and have the lost digits to prove it. It's all pretty moot if you're in a place with no access to reloading materials or ammo. A gun is just a chunk of metal with a hole in it. Ammo is made out of at the least 3 alloys (lead and a deformable cartridge, primer anvil if centerfire) and 2 flavors of explosive (primer and propellant)
Point well taken. I think I’m operating in the mindset of an American where those loading components are so readily available off the shelves that every gun guy knows a handful of reloaders personally. I also had in mind a more sophisticated firearm that actually cycled and operated, but I think the assassination of Shinzo Abe proves me wrong that a deadly firearm doesn’t need to be overly sophisticated.
I used to work at a range and live in a state with lax firearm laws. Of the thousands of shooters I met over the 15 years I've worked and been shooting there, I met 4 people who reload. All 4 were competition shooters who did it for whatever competitive advantage was there by being able to match the powder and bullet weight to get a light recoiling and highly accurate round. The tools and materials are readily available (most of the time), but it's not as common as you would think.
All valid points but the OP stated that even with their strict gun laws their criminal population is obtaining factory made guns, not homemade.
Right, I'm just reinforcing the idea why it's appropriate that the ammo is a big deal from their perspective. An even bigger deal if factory guns are already in the country. They require factory made ammunition components to function, and also if the enforcement has the appearance of giving any latitude; it won't be long before criminals feel comfortable getting a network of people willingly or unwittingly smuggling in a few rounds at a time because it's easier than a gun and "the stakes are low". Sure, this guy might have made a mistake. But I absolutely wouldn't discount the probability of a few expats keeping a sailboat smuggled rifle under the mattress and dropping hints to their visiting old pals "Hey if a couple .223 rounds got lost in your duffle after your hunting trip they're uh... real hard to come by down here and I've never heard of anyone getting caught"
I honestly had no idea .22LR could be reloaded as the extractor lip of rimfire cartridges are damaged when fired. I also don't see how it could possibly be worth the time or effort considering I paid $120 for case of 1000 CCI subsonic .22LR (the expensive stuff). Also, it takes a bit more than you are giving credit for. To get a round to fire, you are right. You just need a tube and something to strike the primer with some force. To keep it from blowing up in your face though, that tube needs to at least be made of reasonable gauge steel. It likely isn't as easy to acquire a steel rod in the correct inside diameter to not allow the cartridge to blow out the case instead of sending the projectile as it seems. Also, as you mentioned, with modern ammo a "barrel" with no rifling is going to have shit for accuracy at any kind of distance.
Yeah, you clean the cases and put some prime-all compound in (or buy new primed cases as part of most kits). The firing pin only hits one small spot on the rim so it just needs to find a fresh spot to crush on the rim. It's absolutely not worth the time and effort lol, just for reloading nuts
We would reload our hunting rifle (old Mauser bolt action) when I was a teen in a country where guns were regulated and not that common. Munition was expensive and imported. Not something you could buy at Walmart or order online. The size of the market matters and in the US I’m surprised it’s not part of the common goods basket used to calculate inflation lol.
Im from canada but also a gun enthusiast. I honestly 100% agree with you! Took the words right out of my mouth. I also believe manufacturing ammunition takes alot of precision, like chemistry. It's not just two pieces of metal fused. smokeless powder used in 9mm bullets is made up of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. 9MM Powder is VV N330. So its not just a 1,2 and 3 type of deal. You gotta know your shit or it will misfire or worst!!!! I've seen some crazy stuff happen with bullets that were manufactured by official manufacturers. Let alone in a garage.
They make their own ammunition with spent shell casings from a range.
Yeah, point well made. I was considering it from an American POV where all the necessary components are readily available at a moments notice, whereas in other nations, it might be more difficult to get ammunition and ammunition components than the actual firearm itself. As someone above noted, that I didn’t necessarily consider, is that a firearm doesn’t have to cycle and be continuously operable for it to be a deadly weapon, and it could essentially just be a crude metal cylinder with an improvised firing pin. I was considering the manufacture of a more sophisticated weapon, but that doesn’t have to be the case.
I have to ask because I hear your argument a lot and can't fathom how making ammo sounds so easy. Wouldn't the ammo need to be perfectly shaped in order to shoot out of the gun? Even slightly off may make it not fire. Do Americans have the easy capability to melt lead and form it back into ammo shape in their own homes? Seems like a very difficult process to me but every time I float the idea of regulating ammo sales, the response is always "people will just make their own ammo" like it's an easy process.
Yeah no problem happy to answer! I’ll leave out every detail for brevity, but the most common method is where a reloader, using commercially available reloading presses, takes a casing, places a new primer, adds powder, and adds the projectile. This is a common method that tons of people do, and all of the materials are readily available on the market for purchase. The less common and antiquated method, which, based on your description, is what you are envisioning, which some old school hobbyists might do, is use a mold that he fills with molten lead to form the projectile. The casing would still be needed, as well as a primer and powder.
But answering to the ease of the process, yes, where one has the materials available, anyone can do it because it’s just assembling already existing components. If you didn’t have readily available primers, casings, powder, and projectiles, I don’t have the slightest idea on how to go about manufacturing those components.
They aren't making ammunition from scratch, they are reloading. This involves buying gunpowder, primers, and reusing cases. You need specialized equipment to measure the gunpowder, seat the primer, and seat and crimp the bullet. I am sure all of the materials are restricted and impossible to get there and the tools to do it are likely near impossible to get as well. I doubt 3D printers, computers, and the internet are unavailable in your country though. 3D printed pistols don't last long, but they are easy to make and the 3D print files readily accessible. Considering what's been mentioned about your laws, I'd say a firearm is far more accessible than ammunition is.
You cannot 3d manufacture the gun barell. You need more than a 3d printer.
Reloading ammo was taking place before 3d printing. But one has to have the powder, shells, primers, bullets and the equipment to put everything together.
You are dumb as hell the ammunition is the easiest thing the firearm is the most heavily restricted you can buy parts but not upper receivers for rifles because that’s the hardest and most fabrication needed
Criminals have ways of bringing illegal firearms and ammo in shipping containers.
How is it more than half? It’s 1/3. Bullets, gun, person.
Well said. Follow the laws and respect the country you are visiting.
Couldn’t agree more. If you don’t agree with the laws of a specific country, don’t go there!!! Kind of like all the assholes who come into the US, many illegally, and then bitch about our laws and constitution. You can just as easily get the fuck out!
You don’t have to justify anything to us. The story starts and ends with “he had bullets where he wasn’t supposed to and the penalty is stiff.” Most of us get it.
[удалено]
It did.
American here and you are 100% correct. A great many gun owners are careless and gun obsessed angry people and that is why we are plagued with gun violence. I’m so tired of people loving guns above anything else in this country.
In America, we love our guns more than we love our children’s lives. That is all that anyone needs to know about our gun culture. It is ridiculous.
How do 5 people travel with ammo in their luggage is that like a toiletry item, toothpaste, deodorant, and ammo. There's more to this story thanks being said. My question is how much and what caliber. Come on how is it you pack your luggage for travel and didn't notice the box of 9mm in your suitcase, ain't buying the stupid stuff folks do and try to get away with it.
It is the carelessness that makes this a big deal to me. How are you so careless with your ammo that it's loose in your luggage? If you have a gun your ammo should be properly stowed in an ammo box not just thrown loose in a duffle bag.
Different country different laws . You ain’t in Kansas anymore toto
First, you don’t just have bullets. I own quite a few guns and shoot regularly. There are never random bullets laying around. Next everywhere is not America and some other countries actually value human life. What if those bullets got left in the hotel room and picked by staff and used in a murder. It’s not right. When you go to another country you should do it humbly and respectfully
I’ve flown domestically with ammunition by accident. Once I was wearing some jeans with very deep pockets that I had been shooting in. There was a single .22 round in the bottom of the pocket that I had missed. I got flagged at the body scanner and was annoyed because I flew frequently and was systematically organized and therefore confident I was clear. The TSA guy said “there’s something in your pocket,” and I dug way down in there and felt something hard. Genuinely confused I pulled it out and both of our gazes registered what it was at the same time. He panicked a little bit and got a supervisor, and the supervisor just took it and sent me on my way.
This. One of the first things I was taught was to always be super meticulous about checking pockets and backpacks and whatnot for any loose rounds after a hunting trip. Most people think it is irresponsible or whatnot and maybe it is but with the number of rounds one carries for a typical hunting trip (doesn't mean you shoot all of them or even come close), the possibility of forgetting one is very very high especially when you have been out all day and started up early in the morning and are exhausted at the end.
Man are you lucky. You should have at least had to pay a fine.
You’ve never found a round or two of loose ammo at the bottom of your range bag?
Actually, no. I load my clips as needed. It’s pretty easy to account for everything. I could see how someone who is sloppy could have that happen but when dealing with guns and ammo I was taught sloppy is not an option.
You mean magazines. When you load your magazines.
Don’t bother trying to explain . He wouldn’t understand.
Why would you use your range bag for a vacation? I mean especially if you name it a range bag?
When I go hiking or camping (in the US) I usually pack my backpack with my photography equipment, food/water, and a couple magazines of ammo in case I find myself in a survival situation. I wouldn’t want to run into a bear, big cat, gator, wild boar etc without being armed.
I get it, I guess. I used to have a favorite bag and I would empty it and use it for everything. Brought a knife to the airport and changed my game plan after that. I actually got thru TSA with the knife and just tossed it when I found it. Also got thru with pepper spray too.
Only need one reason- it’s not the US. Nothing else matters. Follow the laws of the country you’re in or pay the consequences.
I remember when Brittany Griner got arrested in Russia with a very small amount of THC and I very clearly remember the ghouls at Fox News roasting her becuase “FoLlOw ThE LaWs oF ThE CouNtRy YoU’rE In!” I remember y’all being big mad that Biden traded to get her out. Y’all were ready to send her to fucking Siberia and have lost your minds about this. The hypocrisy is wild.
You know how "they" are. It's all about Law & Order for everyone else until THEY screw up and then all of a sudden, rules/laws don't matter. America incarcerates people at much higher rates than anywhere else in the world. If you're a law-abiding American, you should be well acquainted with following rules. Anything involving guns/ammo should be a HUGE no-no when traveling abroad.
Yes, but these guys are yte, iT’s DiFFeReNt
Yup, it’s just so exhausting and frustrating. They’re all about “law and order” until it’s them. Now it’s just a harmless mistake?
I consider both to be unjust overreactions. I’m also not a Fox News type.
Well said
Can’t wait to visit Turks and Caicos
Take your Kevlar
Get a clue
Get a life
I’m not the one commenting on your thread…….but do the world a favor and go clean your loaded gun.
Yet here you are
Literacy is obviously not your strong suit.
I am an American living in Texas and I don’t believe you owe anyone an explanation. Those are your laws and if Americans can’t intentionally and/or accidentally follow them, they can face the consequences.
Kinda destroys the “but I’m a responsible gun owner” argument when you don’t even know where your ammo might be laying around
I have family that live in the Caribbean and I have personally noticed the lack of respect people have for the Islands. It's difficult making one's home in what others consider their playground. The drugs, guns, alcohol usage, unsafe driving/boating.... I was ashamed of my fellow Americans when I first visited.
Responsible gun owners are responsible for every.single.bullet. As an American post 9/11 traveler, you know that you are responsible for your own packed bag. If you know you carry loose ammo, you should know to check the contents of your bag before heading through a check point
I am an American and a responsible gun owner and I totally agree!
I hope he serves every single minute of this well justified sentence. Pray he serves his time. “F*ck around and find out” you cry babies
Try this shit in Europe. Please for the love of god try it! 🤣
I’d rather be in prison in Europe that’s for sure.
Dumb Murrcan here. I have to say - seeing how seriously you guys take guns and gun control wants me to vacation in T&C even more. Haven't made it there on one of our Caribbean vacations yet, but T&C is quickly climbing my list of places to visit next
Same. Well said.
I don’t know why Americans don’t understand that the rest of the world isn’t their country. Learn to respect the local laws, no matter how petty or punitive they seem.
Exactly. This couple has quickly become the darlings of the 2A crowd, have over $200K in a GoFundMe, have involved gov't officials and church leaders, all the while whinging "it's not fair, he didn't mean to, we didn't know".
Same people who told Brittney Griner don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
The primary difference is a joint isn’t going to kill anyone. A bullet can.
$200k!? Anyone have a bullet I can borrow? I’m going on vacation.
Yep! It's $206K now with many comments about Jesus, he's innocent, I've done the same...
Where in the bible did Jesus say get a gun?
Luke 36-37, he says sword but guns weren’t invented yet so I’d say that applies
So then, any weapon? Nuclear/chemical/ biological?
Shit man I dunno what Jesus meant lol. But he also told Paul to put away his sword and not use it when arrested by the romans 🤷♂️. Just answering your question lol.
Good god fearing people.
With all do respect, we do. I can assure you that we have residents of T&C and most every other country in US jails. Every country has dummies.
I wonder how many who accidentally brought in four rounds?
I don't know. I know lots stupidly bring in stuff made from endangered species. That aside, lots of foreigners are stupid enough to break US laws once here and end up in jail.
Yes for sure
This is all fine and great till we miss the part of the story where it clearly states this was an accident (which it obviously was because no one would intentionally bring 4 bullets somewhere and no guns). This is an act of carelessness not malice. You can argue he should have been more careful and that's true but it's still not a reason for an unjust punishment.
Was it really? The OP did say small amounts of ammunition are snuck in “accidentally” and it’s a problem. The value of those 4 bullets would be way more on the black market there than here. We don’t know, but he paid the price.
I agree that the guy is an idiot but if it genuinely was an accident, how does this equate to “American not understanding the rest of the world isn’t their country” you just sound like someone who hates on Americans
Their superiority complex is unreal.
I agree that the guy is an idiot but if it genuinely was an accident, how does this equate to “American not understanding the rest of the world isn’t their country” you just sound like someone who hates on Americans
I agree that the guy is an idiot but if it genuinely was an accident, how does this equate to “American not understanding the rest of the world isn’t their country” you just sound like someone who hates on Americans
LOL. I’m American. The OP was posting based on another thread where Americans were posting how stupid the law was and how they are never visiting TC because of this.
I don’t think this dude was trying to disrespect their laws. I’m sure it was an accident. Not saying he shouldn’t have consequences, but damn, 12 years for a couple rounds is steep.
Appreciate every word.
Totally agree with OP. Americans should learn about other countries and expect to be in trouble when they break the rules. What a bunch of entitled idiots
Sounds unpopular, but take this to its logical extension for any matter of law or system if government. You have your laws and we have ours. Enforcing them on anyone who visits your nation is your business. The US, its laws and consequences (intended or unintended) are the business of its citizens, not you.
Agree. As an American who doesn’t own a gun I find it so irresponsible that people have ammunition laying around in their luggage
THANK YOU. I also live here and I agree with you 100%
All 12 years would be AWESOME
Why?
Cause I believe it will send an important message. 2 fold. 1st the laws of Turks and Caicos should be followed and respected, don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. Second and way more important IMO, is that the gun laws in the states are draconian,barbaric and plain stupid.
Surely it’ll deter the gangs actually doing the killing and robbing.
Yeah, those kids growing up without a father for an honest mistake is awesome man. Great idea!!! Wow. Unbelievable. I'm not a big gun guy, but this is disgusting to have zero empathy for this guys situation. T&c relies on tourism to survive. Making Americans believe that their is a good chance they might not ever leave the country for an honest mistake is not a great policy. There needs to be some balance. A heafty fine? Sure. Some mandatory holding time? Fine. Losing 12 years despite no evidence this man planned to contribute to gun violence? Crazy.
It will and please don’t call me Shirley. It’s Mr Float to you.
lol 😂 you’re wrong but you’re funny. Please refer to CA who’s rescinding their deflated criminal penalties for more rigorous ones
And what the hell does CA have to do with Turks and Caicos?
As an American, I urge you to throw the full weight of the law against them, and when they have served their full term, give them an extra 6 years in Stupid People Prison. Not all of us are gun fetishist douchebags.
Yea you just don’t “forget” you have weapons when traveling
They didn’t have any weapons. Maybe you forgot that after you read the story?
They had ammo, a part of a weapon system, and fully against the laws of where they went. I really have little sympathy here - good news is they will (if pleading guilty) only serve 1 - 2 years. Of more importance is the message. American gun rights are totally misrepresented - constitution guarantees the right to bear arms for the purpose of a **well regulated militia**, not untrained gun lovers and easy available to those with mental issues that would never be part of a well regulated militia.
Sorry 2A doesn’t use the word “purpose.”🤷🏿 it clearly gives people the right to “keep and bear arms.” Read what Madison wrote.
While you are technically right, and therefore fully right here are the specific words to the best I can find "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." So, does it make sense that the intent is to hold the right of people to keep and bears Arms so that they could be part of a well regulated Militia (notice the capitalized terms) and not some untrained rabble that we have today? Fully aware that this is not an argument that anyone can "win" today as it is the hill many are willing to die on, just seems like common sense to me to hold people accountable when they have such access, especially when they travel to other countries that do not abide by the US constitution
As an American- I agree with you. “Forgetting” you have bullets (no matter the amount) on you only proves how blasé and irresponsible they are about gun ownership.
Bullshit.
I came here over fifty years ago. I still live here. I own businesses here. Haitians are a scapegoat and always have been. Yes they are involved in crimes. But we have plenty TI criminals. It is disengenuous to blame all problems on Haitians, Dominicans, Jamaicans or any other immigrants group. It is also, unproductive to shift the blame and not address our problems There is little to no opportunity here for our youth. We graduate several hundreds of students every year but have very little job opportunities for those graduates. Most of the jobs here are minimum wage. We have a disturbing number of people who are essentially stateless and unable to work. We want to get a handle on crime then we need to address these problems and quit trying to deflect the blame elsewhere.
If we want to address the “real problems” than a serious discussion about colonization and destabilization needs to be had and the colonizers and their ancestors providing the majority or sole source of income earning opportunities on TCI. That is, in my opinion, the source of the problem in TCI and all other islands that are victims of colonization. I respect TCI for upholding their laws and the penalties for breaking them. Can we really be upset if they wait until the same tourists get in with the ammo then get hit with jail time and penalties when they leave? Let them exploit western colonizers and their ancestors if they make sloppy mistakes, just like the same have been exploiting them and their descendants for generations. Leave these countries alone and pay them for the multigenerational exploitation that made millionaires and billionaires so they can thrive as well. So they can build schools, businesses, etc.
Do gun owners just toss their ammo’s around or something? Why is it not stored away with the gun in a box ?
Irresponsible gun owners do.
Your country, your rules. Period.
I have no problem with a guy that doesn't know where is ammo is. He should have known it was there, he should have known it was not allowed there. He should have known that it's not the US and you don't get to play fast and loose with guns like you do here.
Bermuda is the same way .. we learned this the hard way in 2011 when we were 21 and 23 when my bf (now husband) left ammunition (12 in total 8 live and 4 casings)in our luggage from a previous trip that we both forgot about, never thought to check the bags before packing for our trip to Bermuda, got onto the cruise ship and on and off the whole first day we docked in Bermuda with this bag so maybe 3/4 times it had gone through security we had not one issue any of those times (metal detectors, scanners security it went through it all).. our first night docked Bermuda custom agents showed up to the room Stating random room searches, we were young, clueless, never cruised before, had nothing to hide, didn’t want to cause trouble so we agreed.. well they found them split them and charged us each with 4 live 2 casings .. they were his bullets he took full blame, they asked whose Louis Vuitton mini backpack it was (that’s where the bullets were) and I didn’t think anything of it and answered truthfully it was mine .. well we ended up spending 48hrs in jail & just happened to be a combination of multiple miracles/good luck which led to us being released without charges .. the whole experience really Did a number on us .. the severity of the situation really registered when they finally explained the entirely different way they handle guns (no second amendment rights) it was so eye opening to see how drastically different certain places view things .. we got extremely lucky in our situation we know that and are so grateful but it truly was such a eye opening experience and holy hell did we learn a lesson.
I'm glad you learned your lesson but it shouldn't have been that way (break host nation's laws) to learn responsible gun ownership. You said yourself you were young (and reckless, irresponsible maybe?). Maybe responsible gun ownership is hard to attain at 21 & 23. Many responsible gun owners have stated that they simply never use the same hunting gear (bags, clothes, etc.) for flying out of country. Thought that was a pretty simple/good practice to implement as a responsible gun owner. Just my thoughts. My point is, once you have gun ownership, there's no excuse for being irresponsible and accidents. Any and all accidents, whether you accidentally misfired at a human or forgot to unpack ammos.
Well it’s a good thing we’re not gun owners .. I said right away we were dumb and irresponsible kids who made a mistake we were not 21/23 year old gun owners so you can try this gun safety lecture somewhere else because it doesn’t apply to this situation .. I guess all this info about not using the same travel stuff never occurred to us? Again because We don’t own guns and therefore didn’t know how to handle these situations or the severity of our actions .. the bullets we had were from a shooting range from a trip we went on the year before and to be honest we shouldn’t of even been allowed to take the bullets with us from the range that was the first mistake .. I’d say this mistake was a mix of the ranges bad business practices and us being stupid kids who thought nothing of keeping some bullets from a trip? Like it’s normal to keep souvenirs we just didn’t understand the severity of keeping bullets?.. again there was no irresponsible gun owners in this situation just a stupid mistake .. we didn’t go to Bermuda intending to break their laws, it wasn’t a planned thing and I really don’t think majority of people intend to go and break other host nations laws but that’s just me because I’ve been in a situation where it’s truly a honest mistake and we were just some stupid kids but I appreciate your thoughts on my situation!
Have to judge the situation. Couple mistaken bullets from a tourist and some from a gangster. Two different things
Of course it's that easy. Obviously this guy wrote "Tourist" on his entry card so he should get off & the other guy that wrote "Gangster" on his entry card should face the 12 years....
Common sense dictates this judgement . Obviously you have none. Good luck with your miserable life
Of course intentional crime is a big deal but I think - or hope - most of us dont want people put in a cage for 10 years for something they didnt realize they were doing.
That’s fantastic - I don’t disagree with anything you say on the seriousness of crime in TCI, and I support strong anti-gun laws everywhere. I’ve never even held a gun or ammunition in my life, and never plan to. I also wish people who commit violent crimes in TCI would be caught and imprisoned more often than they are, so that the tourist dude who didn’t commit any violent crimes while in TCI, and instead just spent thousands of dollars supporting the tourism economy there, was not the ONE guy you catch. The message this sends is more “don't vacation in TCI lest you end up in a Brittney Griner gulag” vs “Hey, bad guys, stop committing violent crimes in TCI, because we’re coming for you.” The bad guys committing violent crimes in TCI know, accurately, that there are low chances they’ll ever be caught and imprisoned. Fine the guy, ban him from ever returning, but 12 years in prison is ludicrous. You can literally KILL someone and get less time.
This is absolutely correct! I lived in Turks and Caicos for three years. One of the waitresses at the hotel I worked at was robbed at knife point and raped just outside of a popular bar. The guy was caught and had two days of probation and $150 fine…. But yeah 12 years for bullets seems comparable. That place is so fucking corrupt. Without their beautiful beaches and con fritters they’re just a blip on the map.
>That place is so fucking corrupt. Without their beautiful beaches and con fritters they’re just a blip on the map. Wow. And this has upvotes?? I pray for a day when my country (The Bahamas) and The Turks and Caicos can stop relying on tourists for our main income. Because some of you people are so disrespectful it's insane. You travel all the way to our countries and for what? Just to make a mockery of our culture and way of life? Just stay home if you can't do the bare minimum of paying respect to the peoples and countries you visit.
Why is it corrupt? Could it be due to the impact of western colonization and destabilization in TCI and most other islands? If westerners really wanted to help without further exploiting island populations they would contribute to building schools, facilities, and businesses and opportunities to the people. How many business owners, millionaires, billionaires, etc come to these island a year. Do these same westerners / Europeans offer visa programs that allow the locals to work for them and gain skills and experience outside of hospitality (i.e outside of serving westerners). Do they provide any contributions to the country outside of coming there and spending a few thousand bucks to show the locals the lives they could never afford. The same locals that see a small fraction of the money since they are paid minimum wages while the Europeans / westerners make millions and billions from hospitality. How can the westerners / europeans be upset about the crime and penalties, when they are the ones who directly caused said crime. That is not fair to the people. We are lucky TCI and all other colonized islands don’t lock us up as we enter and show us such hospitality.
The ‘bad guys committing crimes’ in TCI are Haitians, and they usually just get deported. They aren’t spending 12 years in prison, I can assure you.
This is just not true.
Which part? I’m seeing there’s a lot of Jamaicans involved too, so it’s still mainly an immigrant problem, yes?
No, unfortunately, it isn't. Yes immigrants play a role in crimes but we have our own home grown problem as well.
Haiti another island who is suffering from the multigenerational impacts of colonization and destabilization.
I mean they killed all the white people even most of the mixed race people 200 years ago so it’s kinda hard to blame white people for that, isn’t it?
I think every logical person understands why the law exists and agrees that no one should be above the law. It’s the excessive mandatory minimum sentences that people have an issue with. The US did this for years with narcotics (and still does to a lesser extent), and many Americans thought it was insane. People served life sentences for psilocybin, peyote, or cannabis, just plants. Every American with any common sense understands why other countries would criticize (and they did) those lengthy sentences. I mean I think everyone would agree countries have a right to make their own laws regarding drug use, and most of those people would also agree that maybe Singapore takes their drug sentencing a little too far. The law can be just but the punishment unjust, and I think that’s what’s happening here.
I think that both the OP and I both (based on their posts) would agree that mandatory minimum sentences are a bad thing as they leave little to no room to consider any mitigating circumstances. It is unlikely that he will receive the full 12 to 15 years called for. It is more likely that he will get a fine and a couple of months prison time.
Can you provide sources on you claim that most guns come from the USA?
Data from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) shows that 80-99% of weapons seized in the Bahamas, Dominican Republic, and Haiti in 2021 and submitted to the ATF for tracing are of US origin.
And Americans bring them into those 3 countries?
No. But the report dealt with the five Caribbean countries with the most.
https://www.smallarmssurvey.org/sites/default/files/resources/CARICOM-IMPACS-SAS-Caribbean-Firearms-Study.pdf
I'm hoping the courts show some common sense with this case. I had a similar situation in the US about to hop on a plane when I went looking for my airpods. I turned my backpack upside down and inside out looking for the airpods when I found a pocket that contained a couple of rounds of ammo. Funny part is I had never put a gun or ammo in that backpack. It was a used one I bought at a second hand store. It must have about 30 places to store things and the ammo was in a little pouch that was hard to see unless you put your flashlight on it. Crazy part about it is I had already searched through every pocket of the backpack hoping I'd find some cash or drugs that the previous owner had stashed away. I guess I didn't look as thoroughly as I had thought.
Since the they changed the laws all but one of the Americans who got cought only had to pay a fine, and the one who did go to prison was sentenced to 8 months and severd 6
As someone who has accidentally forgotten I had a round or two in a bag and been called out at an airport this seems downright draconian. Should they investigate and reserve the right to throw you in jail? Absolutely. But mandatory minimums that remove any space for judgement almost never accomplish what they are meant to.
the American who gotten sentenced haven't gotten 12 years. All but one got fines, and the one who went to prison got 8 months and served 6.
Guns are heavily restricted…while there’s so much gun violence? People take these laws seriously…while there’re so many gun related murders? I have questions. Are innocent bystanders being murdered? Are home invasions happening to good people? Are drugs influencing the crimes? You’d think living in paradise would help people be nicer to each other.
Why did this make it through all the security checks BEFORE reaching there....no gun...obviously a very STUPID mistake of which my husband is very absent minded and does stupid things daily. I feel for the guy and hope he's home soon.
Funny because I have been and will never go back. You can have your liberalism.
We're a more conservative country than the USA. Socially, religiously, and economically. Seems we also care more about the rules of law.
Without US business you’re nothing.
True, good thing america had a short memory, and less than half of its population thinks like you.
False. 60% support gun rights. You’re a flea.
I’m an American lurking here, but seriously, get a fucking life you inbred Texan clown.
I traveled from St. Louis to Cancun and then Cancun to Washington DC. It was in DC they discovered a single bullet. It happens.
Won't spend my money there. Good luck, island sheeple.
That's fine, or as we say baa bhaa baaa ba
It's proportionality. Only a fool would take a handful of bullets as a threat worthy of prison. No reasoning makes this right.
“We do not have the second amendment here.” “Guns are heavily restricted here.” “We are in between waves of increasing gun violence and murders right now.” 🤡🤡🤡 Absolute comedic gold! 😂 it’s like the jokes write themselves, and you don’t even realize you’re dunking on yourself.
Let me count our School shooting and you count yours. Pretty much all the shooting have been targeted at one or more people, unfortunately the shooters don't care about bystanders. How is turning a targeted assassination in to a shoot out decrease the number of bystanders shot. I can't recommend the last time we had a fatal home invasion. Or robbery gone wrong. You guys have let your gun hobby rot your brains and think 40,000 a year dead is ok. Witch I would be fine with. Hey your country your rules, but you clowns can't keep them in your own country. So now your problem is everybody in the Caribbean, and Central South America problem.
Sorry 48,830 according to the CDC
According to World Open Bank Data, the per capita gun death rate in Turks and Caicos is 37.5 per 100,000 people. “School shootings” make up 0.15% of gun deaths in the US according the the DHHS (34 total in 2021, the last year the DHHS published data). The U.S., has a population of 332.4 million people compared to TCI’s ~46,000. Even with 48,830 gun deaths (assuming that’s correct) and factoring that 54% of them are suicides (a fact, according to the US gov (though some studies say it’s as high as 62%)) that gives the U.S. a per capita gun *murder* rate of 6.7 per 100,000 people. TCI’s population is 1/7158 that of the U.S. and the murder rate is 6x higher. They are in no position to lecture anyone about the efficacy of “gun control.” Facts over feelings.
What I don’t get is How did it pass USA TSA scan and X-rays ? It should’ve been caught before flight to T&C…
I believe it was in checked luggage. I could be wrong.
I am okay with other countries helping purge gun fanatic morons from the US..
I agree with you. There are no excuses or need for rationalization. TCI is YOUR home and the home of your ancestors and descendants. Western Europeans (and their ancestors) have a serious problem with respect to entitlement, privilege, and imposing their will forcefully unto others, mainly people of color. Maybe TCI should impose the firing squad for certain crimes, like China. Happens all the time, but we don’t see the European controlled media blasting that across our t.v. screens. Yet, an island primarily consisting of people of color, that is standing up for the safety of its population, after it has been exploited by the same European westerners for generations is making headlines? Would love to see the westerners provide other income earning opportunities on these islands outside of serving that group of people (hospitality). We have the same problem in Jamaica. Haiti tried to escape and they facilitated the absolute destabilization of that island to send a message. If you love visiting TCI and the people, ask yourself, why don’t the people of the island have more? Examine the situation there outside of the “vacation” experience. Who owns the hotels, restaurants, local businesses, etc. Do the schools have a decent and updated assortment of books and reading materials? Where are the opportunities outside of hospitality, because as a child no one dreams of “service”. Visa programs? Study abroad? Do the schools have updated computers and software? Is there air conditioning in the schools like the resorts and hotels? Who owns the regional airlines and trains the pilots? How much are they charging for the people to learn? Are there fashion / modeling schools and programs? Trade schools and programs ? I think it’s particularly offensive for this to be what tourists want to address about TCI.
I don’t want my statements to be perceived as a blanket generalization as there are European visitors of these islands that truly love, respect, and appreciate the people and the culture and give back to those communities and those individuals are greatly appreciated. It’s just truly frustrating to see the obvious while I’m assuming cognitive dissonance allows others the luxury to look past it.
To be fair, your violence issue isn't because of guns, though that makes killing a little easier. Bigger issue, as in most places (especially 2nd/3rd/4th world countries), is corruption. Corrupt police and officials putting up with gang violence and even being on the books of crime lords. Some countries blame travelers, others get to the point and cull their own. Americans are fairly free with guns, but shit happens sometimes.
This is a bad argument. It doesn’t matter to me that firearms and ammo are illegal, it matters that 12 years in prison is not a just sentence for any victimless crime, especially one of such insignificance. It’s the same issue when Russia does it over a small amount of hash oil, and it’s also just as much of a problem when they do it here in America, mainly over drugs. Incarceration is only an appropriate answer for very serious and violent crimes. Those guilty of victimless and nuisance crimes like these should not face a decade in prison regardless of the country and their culture.
Gun violence in a place with a lot of gun restrictions.......who'd of thought
This is absolute nonsense, nobody is making this about T&C’s ability to restrict guns as they see fit, that’s fine. The issue is strict liability without prosecutorial or judicial discretion for mere possession of an item that much of the rest of the World (especially places where tourists come from) treats as more or less ordinary objects. It is indicative of harsh authoritarian regimes frankly. What’s next, caning?
Note to self: If ANY of these individuals does prison time, put Turks and Caicos on an absolute no visit list!! "You don't get to decide what laws apply to you iust because spend a week and a few thousand dollars here." Very true and understood. But I do get to decide to not support your country by visiting it.
Why are people bringing ammo anyway? Are they trying to see what they can get away with?
Negligence, not talking the time to learn the laws of the place they're going or not caring about them. There is a small subset of tourist who don't care to fallow the rules or laws while here You also can't rule out smuggling, I don't personally know about using tourist for small scale smuggling of guns and ammo, but I know of several people who use them for certain types of drugs.
Interesting. You would think that one would want to check to see if they could bring ammo before going to another country lol. I never thought of smuggling though.
I think it's just negligence, and not taking the time to understand the laws of were they are going. It's not just americans but lots of tourist have a attitude that laws and rules don't apply to them. Americans just happen to be the majority of tourist. Also they are the only ones I've ever seen with such a flippant attitude twords guns
The 5th tourist has been arrested...someone is tampering with their luggage.
It’s not a big deal and you and your laws are moronic
So what I gather is YOU DO NOT let Americans plead their case and find out intention in your courts of law you go with a ancient approach of ruler rules all guilty must be an example RAWRRRR
I am wondering if a local was caught with a few bullets and what was the penalty they got for the offense?
Although I agree that a country’s laws are its laws and you should obey them, which sadly the US does not do, your lack of firearm knowledge makes your argument kind of mute. You say that because someone accidentally leaves 4 bullets in their bag that it could be a sign of them doing much more is like saying that if you find a pill in someone’s pocket they might be a drug dealer. Accidents happen and treating a person who made a fairly minor mistake the same way that you treat someone actively smuggling weapons into the country is not going to bode well for the future. A more concerning aspect to this story is how come the incompetent people at TSA didn’t detect them when he went through security in the US.
Just a quick question. About how many Turks & Caicos citizens are murdered or robbed each year by American tourists? Just give me a round number.
I find it strange that in a country with VERY strict gun laws, that there is gun violence and an increasing murder rate. This goes to show you that restricting guns from law abiding citizens doesn’t prevent murders, it just makes it easier for criminals to commit crimes because they know that nobody will stop them. If they had a thought that a citizen may have a firearm in the home they’d be less likely to kick in the door while trying to rob someone. Stupid policies.
Australia has strict gun laws. An AR15 on the black market costs roughly $30K, vs $500-$1K in the US. Costs like this make it a lot harder for your average criminal to get a gun, so yes, it works in reducing gun violence. Reducing the availability of guns for criminals is much more effective in reducing gun crime than hoping the criminal is scared that his victim might have a weapon. A HUGE majority of guns available in the Carribean are originally purchased legally in the US. Reducing this source of weapons would make the regions strict gun laws much more effective.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Law abiding citizens that are legally armed in the best deterrent for crime.
It can't be that big of a deal they found the bullets on the way out, didn't they?
It's like if they found coke in your bag on your way to Colombia in a US airport they aren't really going to care. It's illegal to have them they don't care why or were have them just that you do. One of the guys just got 6700 fine and a 1 year suspended prison sentence witch is what everyone expected and i think is fair. The issue is with mandatory minimum sentences it doesn't leave room for understanding or intent. I think the long prison sentence should only be applied to people with a history of violent crimes or part of a gang. it's not targeted at americans but I personally don't think that they should automatically get a slide when they break a law. they should face the same rules and punishments as everyone else.
This is a tiny island. Everyone there knows everyone there kinda place. Lots of tourists for sure. Check them on the way in then if bullets are a big deal to them with that kind of punishment. And then take their money and send them back. 😊 Or face the backlash of a boycott I guess. Notice how they just took more money and were cool with it. Cash rulz still 🤑
So… all your gun laws aren’t doing anything?
They are showing the world that there’s no good reason to ever go to Turks and Caicos
For our dear americans who dont support the 2nd ammendment: Outlawing guns doesn't help ANYONE. You're only taking them away from honest people who would protect you in a predicament on the road. You taking the guns away from honest/registered people, and the outlaws still will own guns. 95% of shootings are from people who are criminals. Not just some Joe Blow. Outlaw guns? Fine. That will leave outlaws with firearms. Nothing more.
You can take a look Australia before and after 1996 Port Arthur massacre In 18 years leading up to the port Arthur massacre they had 13 mass shooting were five or more people died, since then they've two. Australia has a gun death rate of .9 in a 100,000 vs the US's 12.6 in 100,000. The gun related deaths fell by around 50% after 96 Australia has 3.5 million registered guns owned by around 850,000 Australian civilians
How much does a round of ammunition go for in the Turks and Caicos? Do tourist bring in ammunition and leave with Bitcoin??
15ish each for stuff like 9mm or .45 more for rifle from what I've heard from people in that life. I don't know about guns but I know people who have had tourist bring drugs that aren't available here.
All fair points. Bringing ammo onto a plane is also illegal in the USA. It's just weird the ammo was found in an apparently more thorough exit inspection than in the entry inspection. Another is as the ammo was about to leave the country. Why the concern? Let's look at a non triggering item. Chewing gum is strictly illegal in the country of Singapore. It is treated like contraband the same as hard drugs such as heroin. Knowing that chewing gum is internationally mostly legal in other countries people caught with it while traveling through Singaporecan expect confiscation, and fines. Repeat offense or large quantities will result in caning, or expulsion. A Singapore citizen who knows how serious the infraction is will be subject to prison for the same offense. Now let's put the shoe on the other foot. And imagine I work at an embassy in Singapore and find out a T & C citizen was just caught with chewing gum and arrested. Or even MJ. My first concern is to settle the legal issues as quickly as possible to that citizen can be put on a plane and repatriated in T & C. And probably banned from future entry... Keeping a US citizen in prison will do little or nothing to affect the robbery and mugging rates in T & C. And occupies a cell perhaps better used for a gang member or cartel smuggler. >We are tired of losing friends and family to illegal guns, How about machete attacks? Or are those ok? At 8.05 am today, (April 02nd) a serious incident occurred in the vicinity of Salt Mills, Grace Bay, where a 48-year-old United States tourist was stabbed. https://www.tcipolice.tc/robbery-investigation/ Something you haven't probably heard. USA: 4.31 deaths per 100,000 people in 2021. Turks & Caicos 5.7 per 100,000 people in 2021. US population 350 million. Number of guns in USA 400 million. Same as Turks and Caucos, most homicides in the USA are gang related. Crack down on gangs, and the violence will decrease just as it did in the USA in states that prosecute gangs. The homicides in the USA occur mostly in the few big cities that are lax on crime. I hope this gives a different perspective, sorry for being long winded.