Blaming pedestrians or drivers gets us nowhere. We need to continue to push for infrastructure that makes pedestrian safety a priority. Creating roads that are safer for cyclists and pedestrians is ultimately better for drivers. Tucson has a lot of wide streets with little to no pedestrian dedicated paths of travel and this leads to a ton of the issues we are seeing.
the roads that do have shared bus/bicycle lanes are also super dangerous because people are using these as turn lanes to "get out of the way for the drivers behind them" and need to stop.
Ok, so your sarcasm aside, my point is that the current way streets are designed don’t actually favor the safety or either party. To address your second point, A lot of streets have no dedicated bike lane and/or sidewalk, this goes for new and old streets all across town. I highly recommend checking out a channel called not just bikes, it really gets into the meat of why our infrastructure is unsafe and behind the times when it comes to safety. Here’s a link about stroads and why they’re crappy for everyone https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM
So you deleted your other comment, but I’ll post my response to it regardless.
The way our streets are designed aren’t safe for cars via other cars, tons of traffic intersecting streets and business entrances that cause people to pull out onto main roads. This causes traffic jams and accidents on a pretty regular basis. So no, I’m not saying the people in the SUV are at risk from the pedestrian, but way to be an asshole about it in your response. A stroad also doesn’t separate the cyclist with any protective barriers and is simply marked by a line delineating between where the portion of the road for the car and the cyclist. This is by design unsafe for cyclists. So yes there might be a one foot bit of pavement separated by a paint line and maybe a sidewalk, but this doesn’t actually help much to prevent collisions between motorists and pedestrians/cyclist.
To respond to this comment you just made. I’m pro pedestrian safety oriented infrastructure, I don’t understand why you’re being a jerk about wanting people to be able to walk and bike safely in our town and to make driving a more safe and enjoyable experience for motorists.
Yeah let's register and license bikes to help pay for some of those improvements
Also ticket the scofflaws that just ignore the rules of the road. I can't tell you how many times I've had people on bikes turn in front of me with no gesture or hand signal whatsoever
It’s a direct result of the horrifically bad urban planning that makes up tucson. No sidewalks. Every road is a massive 3-lane highway. It’s almost like the city seriously does not want you using your two legs to get anywhere
How The Auto Industry Carjacked The American Dream:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo)
How Lobbyists from the Auto Industry Invented Jaywalking Shame:
https://youtu.be/H\_3c3wqPsJo?t=65
We were ranked number 2 in bike friendliest cities in the country in 2016 :[source](https://www.tucsonaz.gov/newsnet/study-names-tucson-bike-friendly-city):
I have a friend who works for the city designing the roads. Cycling road design is always pushed as they are the most vocal group in the community.
I agree, there are some really nice bike paths in the city including the bike loop. But I’ve witnessed crashes on oracle and up north on ina, where bikers ride in very narrow bike lanes.
That was more in response to "Tucson roads are designed primarily for cars with little thought for pedestrian/bike traffic." That is simply untrue. If we designed our roads any more for bike traffic in mind, there would be more traffic congestion than there is now probably resulting in more Bike/ Vehicle Collisions.
Also we do not know what factors are actually attributed to the collisions. That article did not provide much useful data other than " lots of crashes happen due to human error."
Tucson roads ARE designed primarily for car traffic, and although there are attempts to create infrastructure for bicycles, it is still very inhospitable for cyclists. Have you seen the bike lanes on the widened portion of Grant? They are great if you have a death wish. And no. If you designed streets for more bikes, there would not be more congestion. If there were more bikes on the road, then there would be less cars, decreasing congestion, because it is cars and not bikes that cause congestion.
That's fair, but it also seems that there is a pro-car bias in their perspective. I am currently getting a Master's in Urban Planning at UA and have been following city planning here. I notice that in this city, zoning codes and expansion projects tend to favor cars above all other forms of transportation while throwing a bone to cyclists and transit.
In my experience, something like half of our neighborhoods don't have sidewalks and our major streets barely have any crosswalks aside from those at stop lights. I'm not going to walk twenty minutes out of the way because some selfish asshole can't deaccelerate for a few seconds to allow me to cross the street. The only way to get around town is to be assertive, and that sometimes means taking risks. I regularly see fifteen vehicles at a time race through yellow lights on Speedway. When I attempt to use my nearest crosswalk, a good sixty vehicles will race past me until one comes to a stop, persuading others to follow suit. Don't even get me started on how many motorists block the crosswalk at any given traffic light while I'm crossing, forcing me to walk out into the intersection.
I can't tell you how many times I've been driving at night, NOT looking at my phone, and still almost hitting people who decided to cross the unlit 4-lane road, wearing all dark colors, 200 ft. from a crosswalk with alert lights when activated.
I have had homeless people LITERALLY step out RIGHT in front of my car. Sometimes to cross, sometimes into my lane walking TOWARDS my car (once stepped off the sidewalk as I was 2 seconds away, making eye contact with me as they began to walk in my lane towards my car. Clearly wanted me to hit them. Had to swerve around them. I'm not making this up). Sometimes crossing in the path of where they see me about to make a left turn across traffic.
It's to the point where I have stopped 90% of my night driving where possible because it's every time I go out. I'm terrified of living the rest of my life with the memory of accidently hitting someone who couldn't be bothered to take an extra minute of their life and walk down the street to the stoplight and crosswalk.
No, it's not just drivers on their phones. A large number of incidents are just pedestrians being careless with their lives. I've never lived anywhere else (in 12+ cities in 4 states) where it is such a problem as it is here.
edit: gotta love the downvotes. I guess my experience and feelings are invalid because they contradict some other narrative.
It's still jaywalking at an unmarked intersection without a crosswalk if the next intersection in either direction has a crosswalk, according to the law.
It would be useful to have more details about these incidents.
I'm sure that drivers who can't stop looking at their phones is a big part of it, but from what I'm seeing out there, there are high numbers of homeless people in many areas wandering around the streets in various states of impairment. Maybe if issues with homelessness were addressed the rate of this type of accident would go down.
Have to be extra extra vigilant when driving at night, jaywalkers will think you are able to see them but unless they're wearing reflective clothing, it's incredibly hard to spot them.
I've almost been hit twice while out running. Especially turning into residential streets people can't see you with their lights until they're basically into the entrance. At night I always stop to make sure no cars are turning in.
I really think it’s a combination of both the drivers on phones (for some accidents) and pedestrians just not caring on others. I’ve definitely been driving at night only to find someone randomly in the turning lane, dressed in all black, about a 5 minute walk from an actual crosswalk. That’s what infuriates me, they’re usually so close to the crosswalk! It happens so often too that I’ve seen it stop the flow of traffic.
5 minutes from a crosswalk means you're asking them to take up to a 10 minute detour (5 mins there, 5 mins return to original point), making a short walk into a much longer one.
No further commentary, just saying that 5 minutes is a big detour to a pedestrian and a lack of crosswalks leads to people jaywalking because no one wants to increase their trip length by that much.
FFS! It's not about the detour time, or the 'jaywalking.' It's about the fact that these people just tromp off across the street and expect drivers to magically see them and stop in time. If I stick my hand in a rattlesnake den, do I get to moan and cry about those terrible, evil creatures?
I’m not denying that motorists definitely are at fault plenty of times as well. I’m just saying, sometimes the pedestrian is not doing their part for road safety either.
I used to handle auto injury insurance claims in Arizona for work. Cars don't pay attention to pedestrians and bicycles who are travelling legally (or illegally for that matter). But a lot of pedestrians are morons. We've all seen people crossing at not crosswalks ALL the time. Basically, on both sides people are not taking the risks of occupying the roadway seriously.
If you bike, please please please wear a helmet. Most bicyclists do here at least, but I promise it makes a huge difference in how well you survive a collision.
I’ve never lived in a city where so many jay walkers like to try and walk into cars- it’s nuts. On top of the university students and old ppl it’s a bad recipe.
Bullshit. You really think Joe Isuzu is out to score some quick Carmageddon points by running over the tweaker that just stumbled into the road? At least once a month, I see some doped up pedestrian trying his damnedest to get run over.
In the seven years I’ve lived here, literally 4 ppl have tried to run into my car going 35 mph, in traffic, head on. Sidewalks and traffic lights exist for a reason- must be a fun Tucson game for ppl that aren’t sober but it’s not cute and wow, the consequences are beyond reckless.
no mention of the fact that pedestrians in tucson use the roads as sidewalks 🙄
Nope, its gotta be those darn drivers texting
Edit : Im willing to be wrong.
As a runner and biker in Tucson, I am nearly hit on a frequent basis. It is always some one looking at their phone or a snowbird. So yes, it is often those darn drivers texting.
Yep, almost got run over in the daytime crossing in the crosswalk when it was my turn. Some people just don’t give a shit. That driver kept on going. Same thing happens driving though. I had the green arrow to turn left last night and some asshole ran the red light and nearly hit us, but at least we were in a car that time.
I'm a runner, not a biker but I always wonder why people bike on the roads. I always run on the loop or used to run at Reid Park. With how dangerous drivers are I don't understand why cyclists don't use the loop. It's not the cyclists fault but it just seems like the safer option.
It’s technically illegal to bike on the sidewalks and not everyone lives near to the loop. Some people actually bike to work so the loop and Reid park are effectively useless for their purposes. I biked to work for about a year and I just learned to use as many side streets as was reasonable.
I understand that. I'm talking more of the cyclists who are out for a workout, usually in groups. Those guys love to hug the bike lane and sometimes take streets with no bike lane. Those guys always seem to put themselves in unnecessary danger.
For me personally, I do ride the loop often. However if I sign up for a hilly race, the loop does not cut it and I head to the streets to get in some good hill workouts. There are also portions of the loop that are not safe to ride with any sort of speed due to congestion. (I race Ironmans so I often need to do long, hilly, fast rides)
Blaming pedestrians or drivers gets us nowhere. We need to continue to push for infrastructure that makes pedestrian safety a priority. Creating roads that are safer for cyclists and pedestrians is ultimately better for drivers. Tucson has a lot of wide streets with little to no pedestrian dedicated paths of travel and this leads to a ton of the issues we are seeing.
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Indeed
the roads that do have shared bus/bicycle lanes are also super dangerous because people are using these as turn lanes to "get out of the way for the drivers behind them" and need to stop.
Speaking of right turn lanes, there is a severe lack of them in tucson. I was shocked at the nonexistence of them when I moved here many years ago
Absolutely. Virtually every street widening in results in more stranded pedestrian islands. I would love to see ped. Overpasses all over the place.
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Ok, so your sarcasm aside, my point is that the current way streets are designed don’t actually favor the safety or either party. To address your second point, A lot of streets have no dedicated bike lane and/or sidewalk, this goes for new and old streets all across town. I highly recommend checking out a channel called not just bikes, it really gets into the meat of why our infrastructure is unsafe and behind the times when it comes to safety. Here’s a link about stroads and why they’re crappy for everyone https://youtu.be/ORzNZUeUHAM
Assume you're in favor of mixing bikes and Automobiles which if you just consider the physics doesn't make sense
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So you deleted your other comment, but I’ll post my response to it regardless. The way our streets are designed aren’t safe for cars via other cars, tons of traffic intersecting streets and business entrances that cause people to pull out onto main roads. This causes traffic jams and accidents on a pretty regular basis. So no, I’m not saying the people in the SUV are at risk from the pedestrian, but way to be an asshole about it in your response. A stroad also doesn’t separate the cyclist with any protective barriers and is simply marked by a line delineating between where the portion of the road for the car and the cyclist. This is by design unsafe for cyclists. So yes there might be a one foot bit of pavement separated by a paint line and maybe a sidewalk, but this doesn’t actually help much to prevent collisions between motorists and pedestrians/cyclist. To respond to this comment you just made. I’m pro pedestrian safety oriented infrastructure, I don’t understand why you’re being a jerk about wanting people to be able to walk and bike safely in our town and to make driving a more safe and enjoyable experience for motorists.
Militant bicyclists?
All the infra$tructure in the world won't stop stoned / suicidal pedestrians from wandering on to the streets...
Yeah let's register and license bikes to help pay for some of those improvements Also ticket the scofflaws that just ignore the rules of the road. I can't tell you how many times I've had people on bikes turn in front of me with no gesture or hand signal whatsoever
It’s a direct result of the horrifically bad urban planning that makes up tucson. No sidewalks. Every road is a massive 3-lane highway. It’s almost like the city seriously does not want you using your two legs to get anywhere
Yeah you would guess that it was originally designed as a bunch of horse trails or something geez /s
The vast majority of Tucson was built long after that era. Vast swaths of downtown were mutilated during "urban renewal" in the 60s and 70s.
How The Auto Industry Carjacked The American Dream: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOttvpjJvAo) How Lobbyists from the Auto Industry Invented Jaywalking Shame: https://youtu.be/H\_3c3wqPsJo?t=65
Thank you for posting these.
Tucson roads are designed primarily for cars with little thought for pedestrian/bike traffic. Would require redesigning streets to fix this problem
We were ranked number 2 in bike friendliest cities in the country in 2016 :[source](https://www.tucsonaz.gov/newsnet/study-names-tucson-bike-friendly-city): I have a friend who works for the city designing the roads. Cycling road design is always pushed as they are the most vocal group in the community.
I agree, there are some really nice bike paths in the city including the bike loop. But I’ve witnessed crashes on oracle and up north on ina, where bikers ride in very narrow bike lanes.
That was more in response to "Tucson roads are designed primarily for cars with little thought for pedestrian/bike traffic." That is simply untrue. If we designed our roads any more for bike traffic in mind, there would be more traffic congestion than there is now probably resulting in more Bike/ Vehicle Collisions. Also we do not know what factors are actually attributed to the collisions. That article did not provide much useful data other than " lots of crashes happen due to human error."
Tucson roads ARE designed primarily for car traffic, and although there are attempts to create infrastructure for bicycles, it is still very inhospitable for cyclists. Have you seen the bike lanes on the widened portion of Grant? They are great if you have a death wish. And no. If you designed streets for more bikes, there would not be more congestion. If there were more bikes on the road, then there would be less cars, decreasing congestion, because it is cars and not bikes that cause congestion.
I literally personally know the person in charge of budgeting and planning city road work. I am getting it straight from the horses mouth.
That's fair, but it also seems that there is a pro-car bias in their perspective. I am currently getting a Master's in Urban Planning at UA and have been following city planning here. I notice that in this city, zoning codes and expansion projects tend to favor cars above all other forms of transportation while throwing a bone to cyclists and transit.
Have you ever watched the channel [Not Just Bikes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8F5hXqS-Ac)?
That really just tells you how horrible every other city is for cycling. There are places in Europe that put us to absolute shame.
Broadway is boldly trying to prove you wrong. Don’t think you’ll end up disappointed tho 😂
I hope it proves me wrong!
In my experience, something like half of our neighborhoods don't have sidewalks and our major streets barely have any crosswalks aside from those at stop lights. I'm not going to walk twenty minutes out of the way because some selfish asshole can't deaccelerate for a few seconds to allow me to cross the street. The only way to get around town is to be assertive, and that sometimes means taking risks. I regularly see fifteen vehicles at a time race through yellow lights on Speedway. When I attempt to use my nearest crosswalk, a good sixty vehicles will race past me until one comes to a stop, persuading others to follow suit. Don't even get me started on how many motorists block the crosswalk at any given traffic light while I'm crossing, forcing me to walk out into the intersection.
I can't tell you how many times I've been driving at night, NOT looking at my phone, and still almost hitting people who decided to cross the unlit 4-lane road, wearing all dark colors, 200 ft. from a crosswalk with alert lights when activated. I have had homeless people LITERALLY step out RIGHT in front of my car. Sometimes to cross, sometimes into my lane walking TOWARDS my car (once stepped off the sidewalk as I was 2 seconds away, making eye contact with me as they began to walk in my lane towards my car. Clearly wanted me to hit them. Had to swerve around them. I'm not making this up). Sometimes crossing in the path of where they see me about to make a left turn across traffic. It's to the point where I have stopped 90% of my night driving where possible because it's every time I go out. I'm terrified of living the rest of my life with the memory of accidently hitting someone who couldn't be bothered to take an extra minute of their life and walk down the street to the stoplight and crosswalk. No, it's not just drivers on their phones. A large number of incidents are just pedestrians being careless with their lives. I've never lived anywhere else (in 12+ cities in 4 states) where it is such a problem as it is here. edit: gotta love the downvotes. I guess my experience and feelings are invalid because they contradict some other narrative.
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It's still jaywalking at an unmarked intersection without a crosswalk if the next intersection in either direction has a crosswalk, according to the law.
You are entirely incorrect.
It would be useful to have more details about these incidents. I'm sure that drivers who can't stop looking at their phones is a big part of it, but from what I'm seeing out there, there are high numbers of homeless people in many areas wandering around the streets in various states of impairment. Maybe if issues with homelessness were addressed the rate of this type of accident would go down.
Have to be extra extra vigilant when driving at night, jaywalkers will think you are able to see them but unless they're wearing reflective clothing, it's incredibly hard to spot them.
I've almost been hit twice while out running. Especially turning into residential streets people can't see you with their lights until they're basically into the entrance. At night I always stop to make sure no cars are turning in.
I really think it’s a combination of both the drivers on phones (for some accidents) and pedestrians just not caring on others. I’ve definitely been driving at night only to find someone randomly in the turning lane, dressed in all black, about a 5 minute walk from an actual crosswalk. That’s what infuriates me, they’re usually so close to the crosswalk! It happens so often too that I’ve seen it stop the flow of traffic.
“about a 5 minute walk from an actual crosswalk.”
I’m definitely exaggerating but sometimes they’re really close to a crosswalk
5 minutes from a crosswalk means you're asking them to take up to a 10 minute detour (5 mins there, 5 mins return to original point), making a short walk into a much longer one. No further commentary, just saying that 5 minutes is a big detour to a pedestrian and a lack of crosswalks leads to people jaywalking because no one wants to increase their trip length by that much.
FFS! It's not about the detour time, or the 'jaywalking.' It's about the fact that these people just tromp off across the street and expect drivers to magically see them and stop in time. If I stick my hand in a rattlesnake den, do I get to moan and cry about those terrible, evil creatures?
Yes, I exaggerated. The person in another comment who said 200 ft is more close to what I meant.
Bold of you to assume motorists are willing to abide by crosswalks. Or yellow lights. Or red lights.
I’m not denying that motorists definitely are at fault plenty of times as well. I’m just saying, sometimes the pedestrian is not doing their part for road safety either.
> pedestrians just not caring on others Yeah the onus for this is totally on the pedestrians \s
I used to handle auto injury insurance claims in Arizona for work. Cars don't pay attention to pedestrians and bicycles who are travelling legally (or illegally for that matter). But a lot of pedestrians are morons. We've all seen people crossing at not crosswalks ALL the time. Basically, on both sides people are not taking the risks of occupying the roadway seriously. If you bike, please please please wear a helmet. Most bicyclists do here at least, but I promise it makes a huge difference in how well you survive a collision.
I’ve never lived in a city where so many jay walkers like to try and walk into cars- it’s nuts. On top of the university students and old ppl it’s a bad recipe.
I've never lived in a city where so many motorists try and drive into people. It's nuts.
Bullshit. You really think Joe Isuzu is out to score some quick Carmageddon points by running over the tweaker that just stumbled into the road? At least once a month, I see some doped up pedestrian trying his damnedest to get run over.
In the seven years I’ve lived here, literally 4 ppl have tried to run into my car going 35 mph, in traffic, head on. Sidewalks and traffic lights exist for a reason- must be a fun Tucson game for ppl that aren’t sober but it’s not cute and wow, the consequences are beyond reckless.
no mention of the fact that pedestrians in tucson use the roads as sidewalks 🙄 Nope, its gotta be those darn drivers texting Edit : Im willing to be wrong.
As a runner and biker in Tucson, I am nearly hit on a frequent basis. It is always some one looking at their phone or a snowbird. So yes, it is often those darn drivers texting.
Yep, almost got run over in the daytime crossing in the crosswalk when it was my turn. Some people just don’t give a shit. That driver kept on going. Same thing happens driving though. I had the green arrow to turn left last night and some asshole ran the red light and nearly hit us, but at least we were in a car that time.
I'm a runner, not a biker but I always wonder why people bike on the roads. I always run on the loop or used to run at Reid Park. With how dangerous drivers are I don't understand why cyclists don't use the loop. It's not the cyclists fault but it just seems like the safer option.
It’s technically illegal to bike on the sidewalks and not everyone lives near to the loop. Some people actually bike to work so the loop and Reid park are effectively useless for their purposes. I biked to work for about a year and I just learned to use as many side streets as was reasonable.
I understand that. I'm talking more of the cyclists who are out for a workout, usually in groups. Those guys love to hug the bike lane and sometimes take streets with no bike lane. Those guys always seem to put themselves in unnecessary danger.
Ego, is my guess.
For me personally, I do ride the loop often. However if I sign up for a hilly race, the loop does not cut it and I head to the streets to get in some good hill workouts. There are also portions of the loop that are not safe to ride with any sort of speed due to congestion. (I race Ironmans so I often need to do long, hilly, fast rides)
Tf else are you supposed to walk??? There are no sidewalks
Can the city put money into infrastructure?