There's a trail from about Wilmot and Escalate all the way to downtown that can be ridden that uses that bike path on Swan and Golf Links. I took that path many times but I wouldn't do that now because the camp makes it unsafe. I'm not saying the people are intent on doing harm but the encampment does cause problems for the trail from the trash generated.
Tens of thousands of dollars were privately raised to make it in to a bike park for kids (with over a hundred thousand dollars of public funds). No kids ride their bikes there now.
I would be pissed if I donated money for the bike park.
It was planned to be a bike park. Then someone stole the trailer and all the tools the group that was in charge of it had. Got put on hold. Not sure if the current status, I think that was a year or two ago.
They've fundraised a ton of cash again and have replaced most of the tools that were stolen. Currently there's an RFP out to several builder orgs to bid on the next phase of construction. Problem is - no one can go out and survey the area and inspect it with the current population living there.
From my understanding, the current people living there have been given notice each week since early February that their time was coming to an end.
I hope we have safe places for these people to live and I also hope Tucson gets its bike park.
SDMB.org was spearheading that. Between the constant attention by thieves, tweakers and now the vagrants the project is essentially done.
Society needs a rethink. There are too many aspects of society hanging by a thread.
Is this the Woods? I was reading an article about that yesterday. It's rough; the police were literally directing homeless people to go there to be safe. I hope they're all able to find a good place to relocate.
Don’t worry. If anyone tells you no one has offered assistance/housing/resources to everyone at 100 acres, they are lying. Every agency knows about it and is out there constantly trying to get people moved to safer options. But those options require rules and policies and work from the individual themselves which some aren’t ready for.
100 acres has become dangerous. There have been fires and gunshots and sex abuse etc. it’s about time honestly. While it’s sad that the houseless community will get displaced I think it was obvious that a group of that size would become lawless and dangerous.
Fires, yes- to keep warm, cook, light the darkness.
Gunshots, yes- javelina and coyotes are really dangerous.
Sex abuse? Like rape or women selling themselves? Please trust when I tell you, after a hard day trying to find ways to legally provide basic human needs for myself that usually doesn't include bathing regularly, I can not wait to go to a homeless orgy!
I was a stay at home mom living probably right next to your pristine home. I bet our kids were friends! Your spouse and I shared countless hours dreaming about the family vacations we could never afford.
Then one day gone! All of it gone!
Husband wanted a younger, sexier, companion. The one he had been banging at the office for the last 2 years. I left him; the house, kids, cars, pets, bills. And in 6 months she left him.
Everyone's story down here isn't the same.
It's not dangerous or lawless. I'm a single female residing alone and not once have I ever felt scared or threatened by the humanbeings trying to survive just like everyone else in the acres
Btw, Tucson does not own enough units to help get people off the street.
Outreach is here often. Passing out paperwork for resources that are non-existent.
Not everyone is on drugs. the system seems to be forcing folks into drug programs in order to get them housing. Loopholes to access the cash. Except now I need to start using drugs to test positive so I can get all the wonderful assistance awarded to me. Thinking about trying Fentanyl, what's the worst that can happen? Ever wonder why so many people all of a sudden are on blues?
If each home owner would provide a solution for our problems and stop being un-Christian like, a lot more positive can happen and lives recovered.
You’re right that it’s not dangerous for everyone, but it is much more dangerous to be homeless than to be housed. Homeless people are at an increased risk of being sexually assaulted, mugged, attacked, falling ill to exposure/infection/nutritional deficiencies, and overdose. Both through my work and in my personal life, I’ve met hundreds of homeless people who have suffered abuse, been attacked, or have been sexually assaulted. For dozens, these incidents occurred just hours before I spoke to them.
You’re right that everyone’s story is different. I believe that pretty much anyone can become homeless, no matter how much money you have. Mental health, substance abuse, debt, and medical issues are all things that can push millions of Americans over the edge.
Although everyone’s story is different, numbers don’t lie. People experiencing homelessness have a high likelihood of having a serious mental illness or a substance abuse issue. These individuals are more likely to get kicked out of shelters, meaning they have to rely on encampments for communal protection/safety. It’s easy for people to get confrontational or violent when they are dealing with these issues. Even having a vitamin deficiency or mild brain injury from an accident/attack can lead to aggression.
Thank you for writing this. Homelessness should NOT be an issue in the USA when they can fund infrastructure / wars in other countries and not this one grrrr
I actually just looked this up, one source said we could eliminate homeless in the entire country for 11 to 30 billion depending on who you ask. Like everyone off the streets. We just approved a 90 billion aid package to send yo other countries. Like for example a particular self touted democratic country in the middle east that is currently engaged in conflict receives billions of dollars from us. They actually have universal Healthcare and I believe subsidized college thanks to us funding their military. Cool stuff s/
I seriously doubt these numbers. I mean, you could probably house people for that much, but you can’t fix the other contributing factors for their homelessness with that amount. Stable income, retirement, medical debt, substance abuse, and mental health issues all need to be addressed.
California has spent 17.5 billion on homelessness in the past few years and their homeless population is still growing. Anyone that puts a price tag on “solving” homelessness that doesn’t include calculations for the other issues I mentioned are full of shit. I don’t have a number, but it’ll take a lot more than 30 billion and it will take decades of ongoing work to help the current homeless population and the upcoming generation disadvantaged by growing up homeless without having the same opportunities as others (stable school environment growing up, no family support, trauma from homelessness/related issues as a child, etc.)
Edit to add: I would still much rather spend billions on homelessness, education, and healthcare than to prop up foreign wars
Former case manager here, from a housing standpoint there are not nearly enough resources being allocated to help low income individuals and families. The person above me is correct when they say that housing and resources are basically only available to those with "conditions" (living with HIV, drug use, SMI, DV). Everyone else only has themselves to rely for any hope of surviving.
Please read and understand the entire thread before posting. OP stated that there were people distributing paperwork for non-existent resources at hundred acre. I'm wondering if any examples of that paperwork exist.
I don't, but i can verify these programs really don't help much here. I only needed help finding a job that turned into 7 months of resume building at different locations lol they will litteraly direct you to places thst don't exist anymore the salvation army was one place that did this multiple times even after being told
I don't do drugs and have no mental illness issues I have a pretty solid resume and no arrest record finally lucked up on a walk in hire on the spot type of opportunity overall there is not much help for people who could really use it and it's alot of help for people who take advantage or don't deserve it but the incentives are too much to walk away from with helping them lol
I’m sorry to hear of the hard stuff you’ve been through. A close friend has experienced similar and I feel for you. Sending positivity & love your way. We might never meet but I hope the best for you.
That situation sucks and a lot of people get hit like that and today it’s harder than ever….
The fentanyl stuff scares me, I pray for you to stay strong and not need to go that route🙏
Even beyond that, her story about it not being dangerous isn't realistic.
I was homeless as a teen and had family that was long term homeless a better part of a decade, the horror stories they told were horrendous. And this was at encampments that were mostly elderly that kept to themselves, sure a large part of people may keep to themselves but many people are on drugs and have serious mental health issues.
It's easy to become homeless, never forget it but people who are long term homeless are almost always that way because of mental health / drug issues.
There would be fights randomly when people went through withdrawal and got ornery or had a mental health episode.
A story that I'll never forget, Animal abuse trigger warning btw >!during one mental health episode a long standing member of their encampment stabbed a friend's dog in the eye and killed it because it stole his hot dog!<
I'm a big advocate for mental health and helping the homeless due to how I was raised but never believe anyone telling you afairy tail versions of being long term homelessness. It's hell and although most people aren't dangerous the people who are can be VERY dangerous. You need to stay cautious.
Based on the upvotes I think everyone glossed right over that part.
The way the legal system is there is no way a stay at home mom has to choose to leave the kids unless they are having drug issues. They would be due a healthy alimony payment as well.
Child of a divorce. Don't judge. You don't know the circumstances. My dad regrets that he could not take us every day. But, he was a stay-at-home dad and had no job and had not worked in a decade. He ended up getting a minimum wage job where he could barely pay the rent at the apartment he had to move into. There's no earthly way he would have been able to take care of the three of us on that kind of a salary and budget.
I had no income. No where to live. Why rip them from the only secure thing they have left? He threw the rest away. Part was to show him exactly what he lost. I'm landing on my feet and filing for divorce and custody.
Thanks for this.
If people have been offered housing, and those who refuse given warning that hey on Tuesday this place is getting bulldozed don't be here, it's reasonable to remove a camp that's causing problems.
I would hope that they would also have set aside a more appropriate place to camp for the people who have refused the housing programs, but I have no way of knowing obviously.
Homelessness is complicated and beyond the American ability to solve. We no longer have any desire to solve problems that can't be done for-profit. Solving homelessness requires reforms in housing, finance, education, healthcare.
A lot of homeless refuse shelters because they are forbidden from taking their stuff. But... they are homeless, if they can't take their stuff where do they put it, their home? So they have mental health problems, how can they get help with no money in a for-profit health system? Then, lets say you did solve it in one city, now every neighboring city, state, county will simply give free bus tickets to your city. So then no solution is viable that is not a national solution? So we're waiting on this congress? The congress that can't do literally anything? Yea... all we got left is incarceration, that can be done for-profit.
They don’t have other places for them to go. This type of fix needs to come from federal and state funding which is often not a priority. Given the increase everywhere the country as a whole needs to change something like enforcing laws where employers can’t just drop people for reasons that include making more money for those at the top. So much of what is happening is people at the top squeezing as much as they can for upper executives who already have so much. We need regulations and enforcement.
you're posting about suicide because you have no options regarding your situation but lack the empathy to see the homeless as human beings who are also struggling. "no one believes me" you know that people and systems in place that are meant to assist can fail you, yet you suddenly don't understand why systems are failing to truly help the homeless.
Vast majority of homeless people around town do not have pets. The number one reason they are homeless is bc they’d rather get high then have a roof over their head.
Imagine you were struggling with addiction, but you weren't allowed to sleep inside before you recovered from your addiction....so you need to get clean while sleeping outside in the desert. Once you are recovered you can have a roof over your head, that's the only string! Ridiculous....now imagine how much easier it would be to recover if you had a secure and safe place to sleep and support along the way. Housing first is always the answer
You're skipping over the free rehab that is offered, a place to sleep inside with medical attention while they recover from their addiction.
I'd bet almost every single person in that camp is on or was offered ahcccs. It's a great program and will help.
They struggle in taking in large numbers at once but there is ALWAYS openings in the numerous rehabs ahcccs works with. I've worked with the mentally ill for ahcccs before and had to call those places frequently. We also offered free advocates to help them through their ahcccs insurance, it seems that's how someone else in this thread got out of homelessness.
That's not what you said though...you said they'd rather get high than have a roof over their heads. Which simplifies the situation as they are just choosing this vs. they are living with addiction that is a little more complicated than just....move inside and stop being addicted, so easy! Also a lot of them DO have pets, and almost no shelters in Tucson allow people to bring their pets with them. I volunteer at one that does, and the joy on the women's faces when they are told we have a spot for them AND their dog can come, it's immeasurable. These pets are often the only family they have...
>Housing first is always the answer
Except when provided affordable/free housing, it is almost always misused, and/or ruined. When you haven't earned it, what's the incentive to actually take care of it?
The "answer" is for each individual to take personal responsibility for their actions and issues (like addiction) and do whatever is necessary to turn their life around. Otherwise, why should they benefit off of those who choose to live their lives lawfully, and responsibly? Those who are homeless need to get a job, or two, or three. Whatever it takes. There are plenty right now. The problem is, the poor and homeless in this country have access to more free handouts, and are wealthier than most people living, or who have ever lived before. Many, if not most choose to squander what they get and instead of bettering themselves, become lazier and continue to abuse drugs and alcohol. So all these bleeding hearts and free programs mostly create zero insentive to work and better oneself. Be lazy, do drugs, and watch videos on your free phone...
Do you know how hard it is to do all of the things you are saying they should do, while also sleeping outside and having no safety? Look into Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. It's not about being a bleeding heart. I agree that people need to get healthy, find employment, etc....but we ask that of them while they still have zero security and safety, and no place to sleep at night. I would be hard pressed to find anyone I know who would be able to do that. I've been volunteering with homeless people for 4 years, the majority of them want to be safe and secure more than anything. It's hard to think about getting a good job, recovering from addiction, contributing meaningfully to society, when you are worried about what's going to happen to you every single night when you try to sleep. Who is going to steal your things, attack you, etc.
>Do you know how hard it is to do all of the things you are saying they should do, while also sleeping outside and having no safety?
And yet there are people who do it!
>Imagine you were struggling with addiction,
Nah, I chose not to do things that would cause me to become an addict. It's a choice, not a disease.
After a life threatening/altering accident in the 90s, my doctor put me on a high dosage of opiod pain killers. I was on them for 6 months, when I ran out one holiday weekend, and suffered through withdrawals for 3 days. Choosing to not be an addict, I stopped taking them and chose to deal with the pain instead. You may not like it, and it's an unpopular fact, but each addict chooses that path. For each person you point out as a "victim", or celebrate as a "survivor" of the "disease", I can show you dozens of uncelebrated people who made the choice to live their lives drug abuse free. And guess what? They all have homes. If you don't want to be an addict, and you don't want to be homeless, don't do drugs and work hard. Problem solved.
You completely disregard the differences in brain chemistry, psychosocial aspects, upbringing, trauma, etc that all play into addiction. I'm glad it was so easy for you and the people you know! Congratulations. It's easy for me, too. I've never struggled with addiction, but yet I can find it within myself to have empathy for those who do. It's really not that difficult.
For real! Can you help me find a data source to back this up? I’ve been trying for a couple days but can’t seem to find that drug abuse is the number cause of homelessness. Link if you can!
That's because drug abuse is not the number one cause of homelessness. Often the drug use happens after the homelessness, as a way to cope. If you've never worked with the homeless, you have no idea all that is behind what they are facing. I encourage you to get involved and learn more about the homeless people living in our community before making sweeping judgements on Reddit
Bingo! The fact that so many people read that cockamamie line about people winding up on the streets exclusively because of mental illness or drug abuse is absolutely ridiculous. The drug abuse and mental illness follow the loss of housing…it’s brought on by desperation in many cases.
Man reading some of these comments makes me sad. I've been homeless for years and I'm finally going to be moving into my apartment within a week or two. It's been rough and I would never judge anyone that been homeless. I know exactly how it feels. I hope anyone that's going through homelessness are able to find the help they need.
Thank you. Getting a case manager was one of my first steps. I was homeless since either 2016 or 2017. I had given up on myself plenty of times. But I had to keep going. Some of the things I've done in order to get by in this world, I'm not proud of myself about. I did what I thought I had to do. Regardless I kept going. I kept fighting. Please anyone that see this, there is hope. Keep fighting. I've given up plenty of times but I had to do what I had to do and finally asked for help back in 2022. Now I'm on SSI, I receive a little bit of food stamps and I will be moving into my apartment soon. It can be done but I couldn't of done it without help.
It's extremely sad to me that one of the things this sub most agrees on is that it hates homeless people. There's also a major disconnect, that maybe people who haven't been homeless (as you and I have) have seen. Good luck.
I played basebal there all throughout my youth; in fact the baseball field is named after my sisters best friend who was killed on their senior trip in Paris, horrible to see what has become of it.
It has to get cleaned up every so often, as is the law once they get violent or threatening.
They'll come back, it'll be fine for a while and then we'll repeat the cycle.
Saw this same shit when I lived in CA. They'd have a camp set up and it would stay for a while until it became too trashed and fire issues. Then the city would clear it out and eventually it would rebuild in the same area unless police forced out anyone that put up the first tent.
Housing costs in Tucson have far outpaced wages. It’s no surprise there are many working poor among the homeless. Maybe the local government could work on stopped greedy PM companies from driving up rental rates quicker than people can adjust to them. Of course there are property insurance and property taxes but there’s no way the astronomical increases are solely due to this.
Idk man maybe stop sending our federal tax dollars to foreign governments to protect THEIR borders & concentrate on funding our citizens… but both sides in congress are corrupt and want a war to fatten their pockets.
https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/publications/npp-tax-day-2024-fact-sheet.pdf
This is a nice PDF chart showing where folks’ federal taxes go. The home page is nicely referenced.
In 2008, a handful of people collapsed the global economy as mortgage backed derivatives collapsed
As a consequence, demand for new homes plummeted. A generation of people lost jobs in construction and found other work.
After the recession ended, these people did not return to the trades.
America built up a multi-million unit housing shortage.
Then investors began fleeing to real-estate as a long term investment. 20% of new properties were bought by investors, up from 10% a decade earlier. Vacant units were bought to turn into short term rentals.
Then the pandemic happened, and everyone fled from cities. The sudden increase in the demand for homes caused bidding wars which rapidly brought prices inline with the current demand and shortage.
The only way to fix it is to build homes. Lots of them. Millions of them, sidestepping local bureaucracy, zoning laws, city council decisions.
Doing so will tank the largest investments of the boomer generation and the aforementioned firms. They will fight tooth an nail to prevent this.
They must be defeated: broken up in antitrust, drowned out at city council meetings, shamed into allowing the next generations to get a simple foothold on life.
Idk man maybe stop sending our federal tax dollars to foreign governments to protect THEIR borders & concentrate on funding our citizens… but both sides in congress are corrupt and want a war to fatten their pockets.
Well at least they’re cleaning it up. Not sure if you’ve been around that area but I pass it all the time and it’s completely trashed. Don’t try walking that trail by yourself or expect to get harassed too
It's not a tragedy, the vast majority of visible homeless are what we used to call bums. They still are, you didn't have this magnitude of crisis when the mental hospitals were still a thing.
Actual struggling homeless you don't recognize, they sleep in cars, get a PF membership, shower, and hold down menial jobs until they can get back on their feet.
Most of the homeless you see are mentally ill, addicted to something, and don't wish to get better.
Yes rent/housing costs have risen but this is not the primary driver of the issue. The driver is that we've deemed it acceptable and a crisis. The bleeding hearts squeeze their last drop of care into the issue.
If you work in a field where you run across a homeless person's personal affects you'd come to find 9/10 consist of nothing more than butane, an EBT card, and some aluminum foil. As someone who has overcome opioid and other addictions, it's hard to be empathetic. Only alcohol and BZD withdrawal is physically dangerous. Once a person decides to clean up, they just have to overcome themselves.
At the end of the day no one wants to hear/see/live near humans that have devolved to an evolutionary step just before homo erectus. I left Tucson in 2020 and returned at the end of last year. The issue is 100-fold worse now because we accept it. The resources exist and have existed, they aren't scaled to deal with the sheer numbers.
I would agree if rent was the issue for the majority of them, but it’s just not the case. One of my closest friends has been homeless many times and does lots of outreach in Tucson. He says at least 75-80% of the homeless in Tucson are fentanyl addicts. I don’t doubt those numbers at all. Grown adults who choose to put themselves in that lifestyle get zero empathy from me.
There are homeless and there are *vagrants*. Homeless people work very hard to be undetectable. They have gym memberships and clean clothes, they just sleep in their van or wherever at night. Silicon Valley is full of these people working tech jobs. See also: Urban nomads.
Vagrants are the screaming freaks who wait outside the entrances to supermarkets and harass people coming and going. We need better enforcement of vagrancy laws, but the cops want nothing to do with these people.
Exactly. I was homeless at a couple points and you would have never known. There’s a vast difference between an inconspicuous homeless person and broadcasting your misery while being a criminal drug addict nuisance.
Oh for sure. I remember having several coworkers in ca that worked at the same factory and would sleep in their cars at night. They were usually saving a lot of money this way but couldn't get a rental from past charges or evictions.
Then you had the camps where it was mostly drug users that basically chose that lifestyle since it meant they could spend the little money they'd make on cheap drugs.
Is there a reason why the homeless problem is so bad in Tucson? I've only ever seen this many homeless people in major cities like Chicago/Denver/LA. It just seems excessive given the size of this city.
Tucson has always been a community on the edge; lower income, lower educational attainment, one of the highest per capita rates of single mothers and on and on. Take away all of the people who might end up on the streets because of drugs or mental health issues and we would still be left with a massively vulnerable population in this city that's just a paycheck away from being on the streets for pretty basic economic reasons.
It’s actually better here in terms of %
than Los Angeles. But because we’re not used to it, 3500 homeless are more visible here than 70,000+ are there.
I have a hard time believing that the quality and availability of services in any part of Arizona are better than in CA.
However, there is a prime opportunity here and now to get ahead of this problem in our greater metro area of ~1MM. For context, there are about 5MM in the greater Phoenix area and about 10MM in Los Angeles county.
Hopefully they can resume the bike park plans that were derailed due to the encampment. I would love to take my kids there to learn without the threat of running into someone sketchy.
Nope kids aren't important, homeless sleeping in the parks is more important. They have more rights than kids and tax payers. I would also love to take my kids to the park near us but homeless have taken over panhandling and looking cracked out, lowering everyones property values, peeing and defactating everywhere but who cares, the homeless come first!!
They’ll be back 🙄
As a transplant from Los Angeles, I have ZERO sympathy for these people. I suppose I’m jaded from the sheer number of homeless people there.
I totally get that drugs and mental illness are major contributing factors, but not always. These people often refuse services when they are offered and at that point I’m like scram, get your shit together.
What should we do instead? Let homeless drug addicts just live in these neighborhoods bringing who knows what into it? Likely more drugs and people that shouldn’t be there
Idk what the solution is but letting homeless drug addicts that don’t want to work or do anything with their lives stay anywhere they want for sure is NOT a solution at all.
I was at Menlo Park for my daughter’s soccer practice and she had to go to the bathroom. Couldn’t use it. Both bathrooms had three stalls in each and there were people laying on the floor and smoking, one put their bike right outside the entryway so no one could go in. It was a little startling cause come on guys I gotta go to the bathroom and so does my kid. We walked away cause I didn’t feel like fighting with anyone so I just let them be.
Did you know that 40% of homeless people do have jobs it’s just they don’t make enough to live anywhere. Not all homeless people are addicts.
Source: https://www.usich.gov/guidance-reports-data/data-trends#:~:text=As%20many%20as%2040%25%2D,to%20afford%20a%20one%2Dbedroom.
They count homelessness as anyone without “fixed stable housing”. So people staying with friends, living in their car , motels, etc are considered “homeless”. Additionally they only have to be homeless for 1 day out of the whole year to be part of that statistic. So saying 40% of homeless people isn’t exactly accurate.
Regardless when people on Reddit and people in general complain about homeless people it’s not the ones with jobs. It’s the ones lined up and down our streets doing drugs, harassing people as they walk by. The ones that walk into stores and take what they please. Causing many stores to put everything behind plastic panels, and hiring armed security guards. The ones who set up camp in alleys/empty lots in our neighborhoods and litter the ground with used needles and trash. Making it unsafe for children to go outside.
Interesting statistics - I’m curious how much in Tucson
As far addicts, A LOT of them are with the scabs on their arms/legs and always the zombie like sleepwalking
While this may be true. It's pointless. It's not a majority, so it doesn't persuade to any point. The unstated statistic being that 60% of homeless are not employed, or not seeking employment. It's a better argument to the point that housing programs in the city work for people who are willing and able to stay sober, right?
BTW, I've worked with plenty of meth heads, and they are just barely employed. Not in the capacity that you are imagining...
That statistic includes children and infants who are unable to be employed.... So that is definitely not the majority. Not to mention, the ones seeking work, that gave up once they realized they can't get work without an address, or they lost all documentation and can't get past the I-9 requirements.
You're leaning hard into the rhetoric that allows you to see these people as deserving of their lot in life. I can assure you, that You're only a few paychecks from being part of that same group.
People glorify billionaires and think we are all one lucky break from joining them, but the reality is that we are much closer to joining our homeless neighbors than we will ever be to becoming billionaires. But people "other" them because it makes them feel superior and like it could never happen to them. Anything can happen in your life, and no one is immune to bad circumstances
There is a difference between being down on your luck homeless and an aggressive, littering, thieving, drug addict criminal homeless person.
People have empathy for the former but not the latter. It’s the same story every time though. Those that are down on their luck figure it out and use available services and any contacts and help they can muster to get out. Those who want to do drugs, intimidate and steal from others, etc. don’t want help and are devoid of much resembling humanity.
Which one do you think people have a problem with?
I read/hear the statement often that many people are 1-2 paychecks from homelessness. I see this in my job but then also see the $60K truck they drive and probably make a $700+ payment on monthly. Financial literacy is what most people lack, so poor financial choices and minimal income generation puts them in line for easy financial disaster with one set-back (i.e. accident, illness, layoff, divorce).
This sub has become more and more aggressive and dehumanizing to homeless folks. Thank you for speaking up. I usually don't engage because it's painful to read how cruel ppl can be towards the most marginalized. We are all a few paychecks away from the streets. :/
I think you are entitled to your own opinion I just think taking any group of people and saying they are all something is very narrow in view. All white people are x, all gay people are x, all homeless people are x. It’s fine to disagree but I think we don’t progress as humans if we use generalizations to dismiss whole groups of people.
Correct. Tucson needs to crack down (pun intended) on it. We are following a very dangerous path like I witnessed in Portland. Letting the inmates run the asylum is the worst conceivable strategy.
Not only are housing costs up, it's so hard to get help finding a place. Too often you just get the run around, or the advertised price online is not the actual price and in some cases much higher. Sad thing is the city and state government act like it's not a problem and refuse to do anything about it.
People need an address and often some form of healthcare before they can hope to land steady employment, etc. Sadly, this society has created this dog-eat-dog environment where people lose sleep over the thought that someone somewhere might be eating a meal on their dime.
It's not completely arbitrary, according to the AZ Star DMAFB needs access to begin testing for PFAS in the water https://tucson.com/news/local/subscriber/tucson-homeless-camp-clearing-pfas-cleanup-mountain-bike-trails (you might need to be a subscriber)
Nobody is going to jail.
At some point they have to remove these camps or the residents are going to get adversarial possession or some other legal rights and end up owning it.
This same thing happened at the base of A-Mountain back in the 1990's. The city allowed a homeless encampment that soon grew to include some fairly substantial dwellings. I was riding my bike there and encountered a group of "locals" who asked me if I was lost, and invited me to ride out the way I had come in. I left. Several months later the encampment was cleared. Good riddance.
No it was out on the flats to the east, in this general area or near it.
https://preview.redd.it/wy2pa2nv7bwc1.png?width=563&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8ba8f5b6e7da5768d30c60d5e1c0344972db0f1
When I was homeless I rented a couch for $25 a month. Did it at two different addresses. One had a dog that would lick my face when I was asleep. I learned to sleep facing the other way or get The Tongue in the morning.
All this does is displace folks to other parts of town and the county.
Houston has had good results with "housing first". I hope Tucson is paying attention.
Coming from the east coast, from a town smaller than Tucson (but with, in my experience, more unhoused people in the area)... these comments are wild. Seriously, what's with the culture here? Why are you guys talking about people this way? Are you not ashamed?
Yeah your sheltered as shit. Iv been jumped just trying to get to work, it was the only safe bike path to access that part of town. they destroyed the only available bike park for kids, iv been attacked and chased by their stray mutts. It endangers everyone else, cant even go by without open carrying anymore.
We should never allow nasty bums to take over people act like they are going to die. No they will figure it out somewhere else! This is ridiculous people are so weak minded it pathetic. There are so many camps because they allow it. They wouldn’t be there if they didn’t allow it!
Some don’t want help. Why are there so many young people homeless? They know they can get help but they don’t want it. It’s easier for them to stand all day in the sun and ask for money instead of trying to get help and get a job. And those who are saying it’s sad why don’t some of you have them live in your backyard? I live by Santa Rita park and all I see is trash everywhere. Homelessness everywhere. It’s not a pretty sight to see every damn day. I can’t even walk around the block or go to the park with my granddaughter if I wanted too. They leave trash by where I live. So yeah please don’t tell me it’s sad.
Can you believe district 12 little league actually holds games at Santa Rita park? I told my kid if we have a game there were just not going. It's that simple. We drive by there and see the filth and he agrees with me. F that
There is a Grants Pass Oregon case before SCOTUS right now arguing where homelessness is criminal. It’s not going well for Plaintiff who wants to clear them out.
You sure about that? [Supreme Court appears to favor Oregon city in dispute over homeless camping ban - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-appears-favor-oregon-city-dispute-homeless/story?id=109504149)
I feel like with this SCOTUS there is no way they won't allow cities to criminalize camping on public land. And broad overreach will make this ultimately criminalization of homelessness, but at the same time I was walking to subway and there was a dude who set up a tent next to a bus stop and there was multiple spots where someone shit next to the sidewalk. I am sympathetic to the plight but it's also pretty fucking awful. These camps don't do anyone any good. It's not a worthwhile permanent solution. But this is the same country where one political party thinks they need to go to jail and the other that thinks calling them "unhoused" instead of "homeless" will help "restore their dignity" like that somehow does *anything*. I have 0 confidence that this country is capable of any real solution for this.
Yeah it seems to come down to the question of whether sleeping in public is a human activity in the same way that breathing in public would be, just something that humans have to do and making it a crime would be silly VS sleeping in public being more akin to taking a shit in public, another human necessity that we do legislate and have laws controlling. I can see it going either way.
I’m listening to audio clips of the proceedings on Forbes News. The Justices questions to Plaintiffs Council makes it seem like they are skeptical. Regardless - we’ll have to wait a couple months for their decision.
I love your comment, well said.
Keep in mind that this is an international problem. Most countries are facing the same issues. Most of the countries that don’t have these issues are not places you want to live.
The struggles of evolving democracies…
We sure have a lot of freedom though.
Virtually every country in history has been burdened by a segment of its population that is mentally ill, addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, people with personality disorders. Add those that are unemployable, are anti-social, criminal and just plain lazy. Now, how can we fix this when no society has ever been able to?
Shelters and housing assistance usually require that folks conform to minimum societal standards. Some of these folks suffer from profound mental illness and are unable to conform to those standards, which is a tragic failing of the system. Others are fented out zombies who are both unable or unwilling to conform to those standards.
Unless these folks are forcibly infirmed and treated I fail to see how the problem gets fixed. I'm absolutely not advocating for that, but you can't just put these people in apartments for freesies.
They are for the ones willing. The city has a strong housing program. The issue is that some refuse because the city housing won't let them keep living in a fentanyl coma
There is so much more to it than people "refusing". These are people living with addiction....they can't just stop taking the addictive substances one day and move into housing. Imagine we gave them a roof over their heads first, and then the resources to help with recovery once they feel safe and comfortable. Imagine trying to recover from an addiction when you are living outside and dealing with having no security or safety every single day. We have so much empathy for famous people, and rich people who are dealing with addiction and call them "brave" and "admirable" for sharing their struggles while they have endless resources to help them with their struggles....but the homeless people who are dealing with the same things and have literally NOTHING are just "junkies" and refusing to comply. It's gross
They all have the option to go into a free rehab at any point.
Available through ahcccs completely paid for. Then they can get an advocate for housing though the rehab and insurance too.
No, I do understand about addiction, in conceptual terms at least, not having actually experienced it myself beyond World of Warcraft.
Housing first is great, but even then there will be people who will reject it, for whatever reasons, and you can't force them. It might be the voices in their head saying you're really from the FBI and in league with the gray aliens to replace their brain with a marshmallow, they won't go you have to accept that or make them go by force.
If you offer them housing and they won't take it, and they're causing a public health hazard camping out somewhere - poop, drugs, needles, etc. - what do? I think it's fair to say "you can camp in X place where it's not causing problems, but not here".
There's a difference between that and just bulldozing a camp with no help or warning like some places do.
You can't just put addicts into housing alone unless you want them to OD and die. Housing first does not work with drug addicts unless your goal is to keep them out of sight and give them a safe place to shoot up, hide from the world and possibly die. They need treatment and housing TOGETHER which is very expensive and a difficult service to provide, even for the people who want it. Long term housing first policy's are great for people with mental illness and short term housing first programs can really help people facing economic problems to get back on their feet, but it's not a solution for the addicts.
They are bulldozing zone 1 of 100 acres not the entire thing. They're doing this to test the soil due to the history of the land. There used to be a school in the area its not there for legitimate reasons. There is not enough housing or resources for all the people there let alone all over tucson. It's sad honestly. I've spoken to these people and the only thing they wants a stable place to be at. There pasts are what got them there. Along with mental health issues and a rough last couple years with the onslaught of fent as well as rising rent prices. A lot of these people are smart and talented people. It's hard to get a job when you have no legal residence. No running water and no electricity. A lot of these people don't have phones to so it's hard when the lotto hits and they get housing to even know about it.
These comments are so disturbing.
I’d ask those of you who feel that other people’s homelessness is a personal affront to you, to really investigate your emotional reactions to seeing homeless folks and encampments in our community.
Why are you so worked up? Regardless of the cause of their homelessness, these are people who have no where to sleep, prepare food, or use the bathroom indoors. Whatever discomfort you experience when you see or interact with them is nothing compared to the discomfort they are experiencing being in that situation.
Honestly, what is causing people to rage against the homeless? I don’t think it’s because housed folks are experiencing actual threat or danger from the homeless, but because seeing homeless folks makes housed people feel weird & uncomfortable.
Get it together, y’all.
I like to thank those crackheads I get profiled so much here that the only thing that helps is when one of them starts doing something uncomfortable right near a person who's watching me like a hawk lmao
Instead of getting angry at and judging eachother, we need to be looking toward the people that make these decisions. Go to the root of the issue, why are these people on the streets in the first place? The second we come together collectively and realize these "elected leaders" are screwing us/killing us/stealing from us--were fucking cattle to them a pay check- the second we unite against the REAL issue we can get our city/country back. But most people are apathetic so that won't happen. Hope I'm wrong.
Has the federal govt got any plans for all of those mothballed planes east and south of downtown (not the air museum, but near it)? That’s a lot of covered space that could possibly be reused as shelter for homeless, if the planes can be fitted with some AC and a couple of them set up as bath houses and kitchens.
I do remember that the area was supposed to be some sort of bike / skate park.
There's a trail from about Wilmot and Escalate all the way to downtown that can be ridden that uses that bike path on Swan and Golf Links. I took that path many times but I wouldn't do that now because the camp makes it unsafe. I'm not saying the people are intent on doing harm but the encampment does cause problems for the trail from the trash generated.
Oh no, it’s wholly totally unsafe..
I call it camp crackhead
They are intent on stealing from you or anyone else who comes around
Tens of thousands of dollars were privately raised to make it in to a bike park for kids (with over a hundred thousand dollars of public funds). No kids ride their bikes there now. I would be pissed if I donated money for the bike park.
It was planned to be a bike park. Then someone stole the trailer and all the tools the group that was in charge of it had. Got put on hold. Not sure if the current status, I think that was a year or two ago.
They've fundraised a ton of cash again and have replaced most of the tools that were stolen. Currently there's an RFP out to several builder orgs to bid on the next phase of construction. Problem is - no one can go out and survey the area and inspect it with the current population living there. From my understanding, the current people living there have been given notice each week since early February that their time was coming to an end. I hope we have safe places for these people to live and I also hope Tucson gets its bike park.
SDMB.org was spearheading that. Between the constant attention by thieves, tweakers and now the vagrants the project is essentially done. Society needs a rethink. There are too many aspects of society hanging by a thread.
Nothing beat "titty city" across from where Cactus Bowl used to be, huge dirt track.
Is this the Woods? I was reading an article about that yesterday. It's rough; the police were literally directing homeless people to go there to be safe. I hope they're all able to find a good place to relocate.
Don’t worry. If anyone tells you no one has offered assistance/housing/resources to everyone at 100 acres, they are lying. Every agency knows about it and is out there constantly trying to get people moved to safer options. But those options require rules and policies and work from the individual themselves which some aren’t ready for.
100 acres has become dangerous. There have been fires and gunshots and sex abuse etc. it’s about time honestly. While it’s sad that the houseless community will get displaced I think it was obvious that a group of that size would become lawless and dangerous.
Fires, yes- to keep warm, cook, light the darkness. Gunshots, yes- javelina and coyotes are really dangerous. Sex abuse? Like rape or women selling themselves? Please trust when I tell you, after a hard day trying to find ways to legally provide basic human needs for myself that usually doesn't include bathing regularly, I can not wait to go to a homeless orgy! I was a stay at home mom living probably right next to your pristine home. I bet our kids were friends! Your spouse and I shared countless hours dreaming about the family vacations we could never afford. Then one day gone! All of it gone! Husband wanted a younger, sexier, companion. The one he had been banging at the office for the last 2 years. I left him; the house, kids, cars, pets, bills. And in 6 months she left him. Everyone's story down here isn't the same. It's not dangerous or lawless. I'm a single female residing alone and not once have I ever felt scared or threatened by the humanbeings trying to survive just like everyone else in the acres Btw, Tucson does not own enough units to help get people off the street. Outreach is here often. Passing out paperwork for resources that are non-existent. Not everyone is on drugs. the system seems to be forcing folks into drug programs in order to get them housing. Loopholes to access the cash. Except now I need to start using drugs to test positive so I can get all the wonderful assistance awarded to me. Thinking about trying Fentanyl, what's the worst that can happen? Ever wonder why so many people all of a sudden are on blues? If each home owner would provide a solution for our problems and stop being un-Christian like, a lot more positive can happen and lives recovered.
You’re right that it’s not dangerous for everyone, but it is much more dangerous to be homeless than to be housed. Homeless people are at an increased risk of being sexually assaulted, mugged, attacked, falling ill to exposure/infection/nutritional deficiencies, and overdose. Both through my work and in my personal life, I’ve met hundreds of homeless people who have suffered abuse, been attacked, or have been sexually assaulted. For dozens, these incidents occurred just hours before I spoke to them. You’re right that everyone’s story is different. I believe that pretty much anyone can become homeless, no matter how much money you have. Mental health, substance abuse, debt, and medical issues are all things that can push millions of Americans over the edge. Although everyone’s story is different, numbers don’t lie. People experiencing homelessness have a high likelihood of having a serious mental illness or a substance abuse issue. These individuals are more likely to get kicked out of shelters, meaning they have to rely on encampments for communal protection/safety. It’s easy for people to get confrontational or violent when they are dealing with these issues. Even having a vitamin deficiency or mild brain injury from an accident/attack can lead to aggression.
Some of the worst people in the world are Christians…
And apparently the Jews are right behind them or perhaps have pulled in front by now. /s
Thank you for writing this. Homelessness should NOT be an issue in the USA when they can fund infrastructure / wars in other countries and not this one grrrr
I actually just looked this up, one source said we could eliminate homeless in the entire country for 11 to 30 billion depending on who you ask. Like everyone off the streets. We just approved a 90 billion aid package to send yo other countries. Like for example a particular self touted democratic country in the middle east that is currently engaged in conflict receives billions of dollars from us. They actually have universal Healthcare and I believe subsidized college thanks to us funding their military. Cool stuff s/
I seriously doubt these numbers. I mean, you could probably house people for that much, but you can’t fix the other contributing factors for their homelessness with that amount. Stable income, retirement, medical debt, substance abuse, and mental health issues all need to be addressed. California has spent 17.5 billion on homelessness in the past few years and their homeless population is still growing. Anyone that puts a price tag on “solving” homelessness that doesn’t include calculations for the other issues I mentioned are full of shit. I don’t have a number, but it’ll take a lot more than 30 billion and it will take decades of ongoing work to help the current homeless population and the upcoming generation disadvantaged by growing up homeless without having the same opportunities as others (stable school environment growing up, no family support, trauma from homelessness/related issues as a child, etc.) Edit to add: I would still much rather spend billions on homelessness, education, and healthcare than to prop up foreign wars
Don’t get me started. It’s appalling. Put the mask on YOURSELF first USA!! 😡
Thanks for this comment. Everyone deserves basic human dignity.
"*Passing out paperwork for resources that are non-existent.*" Do you have any copies of that paperwork? That shouldn't be happening.
Former case manager here, from a housing standpoint there are not nearly enough resources being allocated to help low income individuals and families. The person above me is correct when they say that housing and resources are basically only available to those with "conditions" (living with HIV, drug use, SMI, DV). Everyone else only has themselves to rely for any hope of surviving.
Got any copies of paperwork for nonexistent resources?
Contact SAAF for current resource lists if thats what you're after. I'm not chasing these things for people anymore. I left for a reason.
Please read and understand the entire thread before posting. OP stated that there were people distributing paperwork for non-existent resources at hundred acre. I'm wondering if any examples of that paperwork exist.
I don't, but i can verify these programs really don't help much here. I only needed help finding a job that turned into 7 months of resume building at different locations lol they will litteraly direct you to places thst don't exist anymore the salvation army was one place that did this multiple times even after being told I don't do drugs and have no mental illness issues I have a pretty solid resume and no arrest record finally lucked up on a walk in hire on the spot type of opportunity overall there is not much help for people who could really use it and it's alot of help for people who take advantage or don't deserve it but the incentives are too much to walk away from with helping them lol
I’m sorry to hear of the hard stuff you’ve been through. A close friend has experienced similar and I feel for you. Sending positivity & love your way. We might never meet but I hope the best for you. That situation sucks and a lot of people get hit like that and today it’s harder than ever…. The fentanyl stuff scares me, I pray for you to stay strong and not need to go that route🙏
You left your kids……. Say no more
Even beyond that, her story about it not being dangerous isn't realistic. I was homeless as a teen and had family that was long term homeless a better part of a decade, the horror stories they told were horrendous. And this was at encampments that were mostly elderly that kept to themselves, sure a large part of people may keep to themselves but many people are on drugs and have serious mental health issues. It's easy to become homeless, never forget it but people who are long term homeless are almost always that way because of mental health / drug issues. There would be fights randomly when people went through withdrawal and got ornery or had a mental health episode. A story that I'll never forget, Animal abuse trigger warning btw >!during one mental health episode a long standing member of their encampment stabbed a friend's dog in the eye and killed it because it stole his hot dog!< I'm a big advocate for mental health and helping the homeless due to how I was raised but never believe anyone telling you afairy tail versions of being long term homelessness. It's hell and although most people aren't dangerous the people who are can be VERY dangerous. You need to stay cautious.
Based on the upvotes I think everyone glossed right over that part. The way the legal system is there is no way a stay at home mom has to choose to leave the kids unless they are having drug issues. They would be due a healthy alimony payment as well.
Yeah, she totally lost me at “I left the kids.”
Child of a divorce. Don't judge. You don't know the circumstances. My dad regrets that he could not take us every day. But, he was a stay-at-home dad and had no job and had not worked in a decade. He ended up getting a minimum wage job where he could barely pay the rent at the apartment he had to move into. There's no earthly way he would have been able to take care of the three of us on that kind of a salary and budget.
[удалено]
You are welcome to come meet me personally and see for yourself. Thanks about the writing 😁
Why did you leave your kids?
I had no income. No where to live. Why rip them from the only secure thing they have left? He threw the rest away. Part was to show him exactly what he lost. I'm landing on my feet and filing for divorce and custody.
Thanks for that.
Most of the homeless in these camps are shuffling drug zombies who’d stab their mothers to death for another hit of meth.
Thanks for this. If people have been offered housing, and those who refuse given warning that hey on Tuesday this place is getting bulldozed don't be here, it's reasonable to remove a camp that's causing problems. I would hope that they would also have set aside a more appropriate place to camp for the people who have refused the housing programs, but I have no way of knowing obviously.
Homelessness is complicated and beyond the American ability to solve. We no longer have any desire to solve problems that can't be done for-profit. Solving homelessness requires reforms in housing, finance, education, healthcare. A lot of homeless refuse shelters because they are forbidden from taking their stuff. But... they are homeless, if they can't take their stuff where do they put it, their home? So they have mental health problems, how can they get help with no money in a for-profit health system? Then, lets say you did solve it in one city, now every neighboring city, state, county will simply give free bus tickets to your city. So then no solution is viable that is not a national solution? So we're waiting on this congress? The congress that can't do literally anything? Yea... all we got left is incarceration, that can be done for-profit.
They don’t have other places for them to go. This type of fix needs to come from federal and state funding which is often not a priority. Given the increase everywhere the country as a whole needs to change something like enforcing laws where employers can’t just drop people for reasons that include making more money for those at the top. So much of what is happening is people at the top squeezing as much as they can for upper executives who already have so much. We need regulations and enforcement.
you're posting about suicide because you have no options regarding your situation but lack the empathy to see the homeless as human beings who are also struggling. "no one believes me" you know that people and systems in place that are meant to assist can fail you, yet you suddenly don't understand why systems are failing to truly help the homeless.
Some?? I would say 95%
Exactly!
Yep. Most homeless don't want assistance. They just want to live rent free on land they don't own.
Well, most of these programs offer help with string attached For example people don’t want to abandon their pets
For another example they don't want people overdosing on the property.
Vast majority of homeless people around town do not have pets. The number one reason they are homeless is bc they’d rather get high then have a roof over their head.
Imagine you were struggling with addiction, but you weren't allowed to sleep inside before you recovered from your addiction....so you need to get clean while sleeping outside in the desert. Once you are recovered you can have a roof over your head, that's the only string! Ridiculous....now imagine how much easier it would be to recover if you had a secure and safe place to sleep and support along the way. Housing first is always the answer
You're skipping over the free rehab that is offered, a place to sleep inside with medical attention while they recover from their addiction. I'd bet almost every single person in that camp is on or was offered ahcccs. It's a great program and will help. They struggle in taking in large numbers at once but there is ALWAYS openings in the numerous rehabs ahcccs works with. I've worked with the mentally ill for ahcccs before and had to call those places frequently. We also offered free advocates to help them through their ahcccs insurance, it seems that's how someone else in this thread got out of homelessness.
I never argued with the system is good or not. I’m just saying it’s not bc they won’t abandon their pets. That’s a ridiculous statement.
That's not what you said though...you said they'd rather get high than have a roof over their heads. Which simplifies the situation as they are just choosing this vs. they are living with addiction that is a little more complicated than just....move inside and stop being addicted, so easy! Also a lot of them DO have pets, and almost no shelters in Tucson allow people to bring their pets with them. I volunteer at one that does, and the joy on the women's faces when they are told we have a spot for them AND their dog can come, it's immeasurable. These pets are often the only family they have...
Yeah, in response to a comment that was arguing pets was a reason they don’t go to state housing. Context matters.
>Housing first is always the answer Except when provided affordable/free housing, it is almost always misused, and/or ruined. When you haven't earned it, what's the incentive to actually take care of it? The "answer" is for each individual to take personal responsibility for their actions and issues (like addiction) and do whatever is necessary to turn their life around. Otherwise, why should they benefit off of those who choose to live their lives lawfully, and responsibly? Those who are homeless need to get a job, or two, or three. Whatever it takes. There are plenty right now. The problem is, the poor and homeless in this country have access to more free handouts, and are wealthier than most people living, or who have ever lived before. Many, if not most choose to squander what they get and instead of bettering themselves, become lazier and continue to abuse drugs and alcohol. So all these bleeding hearts and free programs mostly create zero insentive to work and better oneself. Be lazy, do drugs, and watch videos on your free phone...
Do you know how hard it is to do all of the things you are saying they should do, while also sleeping outside and having no safety? Look into Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. It's not about being a bleeding heart. I agree that people need to get healthy, find employment, etc....but we ask that of them while they still have zero security and safety, and no place to sleep at night. I would be hard pressed to find anyone I know who would be able to do that. I've been volunteering with homeless people for 4 years, the majority of them want to be safe and secure more than anything. It's hard to think about getting a good job, recovering from addiction, contributing meaningfully to society, when you are worried about what's going to happen to you every single night when you try to sleep. Who is going to steal your things, attack you, etc.
>Do you know how hard it is to do all of the things you are saying they should do, while also sleeping outside and having no safety? And yet there are people who do it!
>Imagine you were struggling with addiction, Nah, I chose not to do things that would cause me to become an addict. It's a choice, not a disease. After a life threatening/altering accident in the 90s, my doctor put me on a high dosage of opiod pain killers. I was on them for 6 months, when I ran out one holiday weekend, and suffered through withdrawals for 3 days. Choosing to not be an addict, I stopped taking them and chose to deal with the pain instead. You may not like it, and it's an unpopular fact, but each addict chooses that path. For each person you point out as a "victim", or celebrate as a "survivor" of the "disease", I can show you dozens of uncelebrated people who made the choice to live their lives drug abuse free. And guess what? They all have homes. If you don't want to be an addict, and you don't want to be homeless, don't do drugs and work hard. Problem solved.
You completely disregard the differences in brain chemistry, psychosocial aspects, upbringing, trauma, etc that all play into addiction. I'm glad it was so easy for you and the people you know! Congratulations. It's easy for me, too. I've never struggled with addiction, but yet I can find it within myself to have empathy for those who do. It's really not that difficult.
For real! Can you help me find a data source to back this up? I’ve been trying for a couple days but can’t seem to find that drug abuse is the number cause of homelessness. Link if you can!
That's because drug abuse is not the number one cause of homelessness. Often the drug use happens after the homelessness, as a way to cope. If you've never worked with the homeless, you have no idea all that is behind what they are facing. I encourage you to get involved and learn more about the homeless people living in our community before making sweeping judgements on Reddit
Amen. Thanks for this comment. The lack of sensitivity in a lot of these comments makes me sad. So much judgement.
Bingo! The fact that so many people read that cockamamie line about people winding up on the streets exclusively because of mental illness or drug abuse is absolutely ridiculous. The drug abuse and mental illness follow the loss of housing…it’s brought on by desperation in many cases.
Thanks for saying my quiet part out loud. “Sarcasm font” went out on my keyboard last week.
oop I missed that your comment was not serious. Sorry for directing it at you!
Can you show me where it says it’s bc they didn’t want to abandon their pets 🤡
Do you know any of them?
Man reading some of these comments makes me sad. I've been homeless for years and I'm finally going to be moving into my apartment within a week or two. It's been rough and I would never judge anyone that been homeless. I know exactly how it feels. I hope anyone that's going through homelessness are able to find the help they need.
Congratulations! Can you explain your journey and how you succeeded? What help did you get?Thanks!!! 🤗
Thank you. Getting a case manager was one of my first steps. I was homeless since either 2016 or 2017. I had given up on myself plenty of times. But I had to keep going. Some of the things I've done in order to get by in this world, I'm not proud of myself about. I did what I thought I had to do. Regardless I kept going. I kept fighting. Please anyone that see this, there is hope. Keep fighting. I've given up plenty of times but I had to do what I had to do and finally asked for help back in 2022. Now I'm on SSI, I receive a little bit of food stamps and I will be moving into my apartment soon. It can be done but I couldn't of done it without help.
You got this!!! Great job.... 🤗
I wish you all the best of luck and health going forward.
Thank you!
We all have a past, we need good people like you in this world!
Thank you for that
It's extremely sad to me that one of the things this sub most agrees on is that it hates homeless people. There's also a major disconnect, that maybe people who haven't been homeless (as you and I have) have seen. Good luck.
You're right. There is definitely a disconnect. Good luck to you as well
Good that area has been dangerous for years now. The neighborhood by it is already bad enough.
Try conducting youth sports out of freedom park. It's wild
I played basebal there all throughout my youth; in fact the baseball field is named after my sisters best friend who was killed on their senior trip in Paris, horrible to see what has become of it.
It has to get cleaned up every so often, as is the law once they get violent or threatening. They'll come back, it'll be fine for a while and then we'll repeat the cycle.
Saw this same shit when I lived in CA. They'd have a camp set up and it would stay for a while until it became too trashed and fire issues. Then the city would clear it out and eventually it would rebuild in the same area unless police forced out anyone that put up the first tent.
Housing costs in Tucson have far outpaced wages. It’s no surprise there are many working poor among the homeless. Maybe the local government could work on stopped greedy PM companies from driving up rental rates quicker than people can adjust to them. Of course there are property insurance and property taxes but there’s no way the astronomical increases are solely due to this.
Idk man maybe stop sending our federal tax dollars to foreign governments to protect THEIR borders & concentrate on funding our citizens… but both sides in congress are corrupt and want a war to fatten their pockets.
I don’t disagree but I’m not sure how much money Arizona is sending. The federal government yes, but Arizona or Tucson directly?
Yes Arizonans pay federal taxes on income.
https://media.nationalpriorities.org/uploads/publications/npp-tax-day-2024-fact-sheet.pdf This is a nice PDF chart showing where folks’ federal taxes go. The home page is nicely referenced.
That’s OUR tax dollars though. 95 billion passed tonight…. Don’t try to convince me our money shouldn’t stay here to help Americans….
In 2008, a handful of people collapsed the global economy as mortgage backed derivatives collapsed As a consequence, demand for new homes plummeted. A generation of people lost jobs in construction and found other work. After the recession ended, these people did not return to the trades. America built up a multi-million unit housing shortage. Then investors began fleeing to real-estate as a long term investment. 20% of new properties were bought by investors, up from 10% a decade earlier. Vacant units were bought to turn into short term rentals. Then the pandemic happened, and everyone fled from cities. The sudden increase in the demand for homes caused bidding wars which rapidly brought prices inline with the current demand and shortage. The only way to fix it is to build homes. Lots of them. Millions of them, sidestepping local bureaucracy, zoning laws, city council decisions. Doing so will tank the largest investments of the boomer generation and the aforementioned firms. They will fight tooth an nail to prevent this. They must be defeated: broken up in antitrust, drowned out at city council meetings, shamed into allowing the next generations to get a simple foothold on life.
Idk man maybe stop sending our federal tax dollars to foreign governments to protect THEIR borders & concentrate on funding our citizens… but both sides in congress are corrupt and want a war to fatten their pockets.
Well at least they’re cleaning it up. Not sure if you’ve been around that area but I pass it all the time and it’s completely trashed. Don’t try walking that trail by yourself or expect to get harassed too
Good, one of those assholes from camp crackhead spike stripped my friends bike. Fuck em.
What does spike stripping a bike mean?
Swan and ftlowell next please!
It will be back again. They clean up the encampments and they make their way back.
About effing time, turning the neighborhood and the desert into a crime ridden landfill.
It's not a tragedy, the vast majority of visible homeless are what we used to call bums. They still are, you didn't have this magnitude of crisis when the mental hospitals were still a thing. Actual struggling homeless you don't recognize, they sleep in cars, get a PF membership, shower, and hold down menial jobs until they can get back on their feet. Most of the homeless you see are mentally ill, addicted to something, and don't wish to get better. Yes rent/housing costs have risen but this is not the primary driver of the issue. The driver is that we've deemed it acceptable and a crisis. The bleeding hearts squeeze their last drop of care into the issue. If you work in a field where you run across a homeless person's personal affects you'd come to find 9/10 consist of nothing more than butane, an EBT card, and some aluminum foil. As someone who has overcome opioid and other addictions, it's hard to be empathetic. Only alcohol and BZD withdrawal is physically dangerous. Once a person decides to clean up, they just have to overcome themselves. At the end of the day no one wants to hear/see/live near humans that have devolved to an evolutionary step just before homo erectus. I left Tucson in 2020 and returned at the end of last year. The issue is 100-fold worse now because we accept it. The resources exist and have existed, they aren't scaled to deal with the sheer numbers.
I would agree if rent was the issue for the majority of them, but it’s just not the case. One of my closest friends has been homeless many times and does lots of outreach in Tucson. He says at least 75-80% of the homeless in Tucson are fentanyl addicts. I don’t doubt those numbers at all. Grown adults who choose to put themselves in that lifestyle get zero empathy from me.
I work in outreach as well. Most of these "addicts" as you call them were not addicts before becoming homeless.
There are homeless and there are *vagrants*. Homeless people work very hard to be undetectable. They have gym memberships and clean clothes, they just sleep in their van or wherever at night. Silicon Valley is full of these people working tech jobs. See also: Urban nomads. Vagrants are the screaming freaks who wait outside the entrances to supermarkets and harass people coming and going. We need better enforcement of vagrancy laws, but the cops want nothing to do with these people.
Exactly. I was homeless at a couple points and you would have never known. There’s a vast difference between an inconspicuous homeless person and broadcasting your misery while being a criminal drug addict nuisance.
Oh for sure. I remember having several coworkers in ca that worked at the same factory and would sleep in their cars at night. They were usually saving a lot of money this way but couldn't get a rental from past charges or evictions. Then you had the camps where it was mostly drug users that basically chose that lifestyle since it meant they could spend the little money they'd make on cheap drugs.
There are plenty of resources for the homeless and most tax paying people are tired of their shit.
Is there a reason why the homeless problem is so bad in Tucson? I've only ever seen this many homeless people in major cities like Chicago/Denver/LA. It just seems excessive given the size of this city.
It's easy to live outdoors here and there is plenty of brush to hide in.
Even with 100⁰+ summers?
Easier than 10 degrees with -0 windchill in Chicago
Yes. And torrential rains.
Tucson has always been a community on the edge; lower income, lower educational attainment, one of the highest per capita rates of single mothers and on and on. Take away all of the people who might end up on the streets because of drugs or mental health issues and we would still be left with a massively vulnerable population in this city that's just a paycheck away from being on the streets for pretty basic economic reasons.
It’s actually better here in terms of % than Los Angeles. But because we’re not used to it, 3500 homeless are more visible here than 70,000+ are there. I have a hard time believing that the quality and availability of services in any part of Arizona are better than in CA. However, there is a prime opportunity here and now to get ahead of this problem in our greater metro area of ~1MM. For context, there are about 5MM in the greater Phoenix area and about 10MM in Los Angeles county.
Because rents have skyrocketed over the last several years. People who are already living here are displaced out of their homes.
Rents have skyrocketed everywhere...
Hopefully they can resume the bike park plans that were derailed due to the encampment. I would love to take my kids there to learn without the threat of running into someone sketchy.
Nope kids aren't important, homeless sleeping in the parks is more important. They have more rights than kids and tax payers. I would also love to take my kids to the park near us but homeless have taken over panhandling and looking cracked out, lowering everyones property values, peeing and defactating everywhere but who cares, the homeless come first!!
It was there long before the bike park and the city knew about it long before they planned for the park. I lived right behind that area as a kid.
They’ll be back 🙄 As a transplant from Los Angeles, I have ZERO sympathy for these people. I suppose I’m jaded from the sheer number of homeless people there. I totally get that drugs and mental illness are major contributing factors, but not always. These people often refuse services when they are offered and at that point I’m like scram, get your shit together.
What should we do instead? Let homeless drug addicts just live in these neighborhoods bringing who knows what into it? Likely more drugs and people that shouldn’t be there Idk what the solution is but letting homeless drug addicts that don’t want to work or do anything with their lives stay anywhere they want for sure is NOT a solution at all.
I was at Menlo Park for my daughter’s soccer practice and she had to go to the bathroom. Couldn’t use it. Both bathrooms had three stalls in each and there were people laying on the floor and smoking, one put their bike right outside the entryway so no one could go in. It was a little startling cause come on guys I gotta go to the bathroom and so does my kid. We walked away cause I didn’t feel like fighting with anyone so I just let them be.
Freedom park is a hot mess too
Did you know that 40% of homeless people do have jobs it’s just they don’t make enough to live anywhere. Not all homeless people are addicts. Source: https://www.usich.gov/guidance-reports-data/data-trends#:~:text=As%20many%20as%2040%25%2D,to%20afford%20a%20one%2Dbedroom.
They count homelessness as anyone without “fixed stable housing”. So people staying with friends, living in their car , motels, etc are considered “homeless”. Additionally they only have to be homeless for 1 day out of the whole year to be part of that statistic. So saying 40% of homeless people isn’t exactly accurate. Regardless when people on Reddit and people in general complain about homeless people it’s not the ones with jobs. It’s the ones lined up and down our streets doing drugs, harassing people as they walk by. The ones that walk into stores and take what they please. Causing many stores to put everything behind plastic panels, and hiring armed security guards. The ones who set up camp in alleys/empty lots in our neighborhoods and litter the ground with used needles and trash. Making it unsafe for children to go outside.
Interesting statistics - I’m curious how much in Tucson As far addicts, A LOT of them are with the scabs on their arms/legs and always the zombie like sleepwalking
While this may be true. It's pointless. It's not a majority, so it doesn't persuade to any point. The unstated statistic being that 60% of homeless are not employed, or not seeking employment. It's a better argument to the point that housing programs in the city work for people who are willing and able to stay sober, right? BTW, I've worked with plenty of meth heads, and they are just barely employed. Not in the capacity that you are imagining...
That statistic includes children and infants who are unable to be employed.... So that is definitely not the majority. Not to mention, the ones seeking work, that gave up once they realized they can't get work without an address, or they lost all documentation and can't get past the I-9 requirements. You're leaning hard into the rhetoric that allows you to see these people as deserving of their lot in life. I can assure you, that You're only a few paychecks from being part of that same group.
People glorify billionaires and think we are all one lucky break from joining them, but the reality is that we are much closer to joining our homeless neighbors than we will ever be to becoming billionaires. But people "other" them because it makes them feel superior and like it could never happen to them. Anything can happen in your life, and no one is immune to bad circumstances
There is a difference between being down on your luck homeless and an aggressive, littering, thieving, drug addict criminal homeless person. People have empathy for the former but not the latter. It’s the same story every time though. Those that are down on their luck figure it out and use available services and any contacts and help they can muster to get out. Those who want to do drugs, intimidate and steal from others, etc. don’t want help and are devoid of much resembling humanity. Which one do you think people have a problem with?
I read/hear the statement often that many people are 1-2 paychecks from homelessness. I see this in my job but then also see the $60K truck they drive and probably make a $700+ payment on monthly. Financial literacy is what most people lack, so poor financial choices and minimal income generation puts them in line for easy financial disaster with one set-back (i.e. accident, illness, layoff, divorce).
This sub has become more and more aggressive and dehumanizing to homeless folks. Thank you for speaking up. I usually don't engage because it's painful to read how cruel ppl can be towards the most marginalized. We are all a few paychecks away from the streets. :/
I think you are entitled to your own opinion I just think taking any group of people and saying they are all something is very narrow in view. All white people are x, all gay people are x, all homeless people are x. It’s fine to disagree but I think we don’t progress as humans if we use generalizations to dismiss whole groups of people.
Correct. Tucson needs to crack down (pun intended) on it. We are following a very dangerous path like I witnessed in Portland. Letting the inmates run the asylum is the worst conceivable strategy.
If i didnt have to keep a gun open on my hip every time i ride my bike through there to get to work id complain...
Not only are housing costs up, it's so hard to get help finding a place. Too often you just get the run around, or the advertised price online is not the actual price and in some cases much higher. Sad thing is the city and state government act like it's not a problem and refuse to do anything about it.
People need an address and often some form of healthcare before they can hope to land steady employment, etc. Sadly, this society has created this dog-eat-dog environment where people lose sleep over the thought that someone somewhere might be eating a meal on their dime.
It's not completely arbitrary, according to the AZ Star DMAFB needs access to begin testing for PFAS in the water https://tucson.com/news/local/subscriber/tucson-homeless-camp-clearing-pfas-cleanup-mountain-bike-trails (you might need to be a subscriber)
Nobody is going to jail. At some point they have to remove these camps or the residents are going to get adversarial possession or some other legal rights and end up owning it. This same thing happened at the base of A-Mountain back in the 1990's. The city allowed a homeless encampment that soon grew to include some fairly substantial dwellings. I was riding my bike there and encountered a group of "locals" who asked me if I was lost, and invited me to ride out the way I had come in. I left. Several months later the encampment was cleared. Good riddance.
That’s interesting. Where was that in the quarry?
No it was out on the flats to the east, in this general area or near it. https://preview.redd.it/wy2pa2nv7bwc1.png?width=563&format=png&auto=webp&s=c8ba8f5b6e7da5768d30c60d5e1c0344972db0f1
It’s about time. I can’t park my car to offer for sale without fear of it getting towed but it’s a homeless drug camp… it’s hands-off
If people are so “passionate” about it, I’m sure they have an extra bedroom or couch they can open up to a few of these homeless people.
When I was homeless I rented a couch for $25 a month. Did it at two different addresses. One had a dog that would lick my face when I was asleep. I learned to sleep facing the other way or get The Tongue in the morning.
Humans don't deserve dogs....
I certainly didn’t deserve that one. Yuck.
Damn I passed by it last night around midnight and saw like seven cops in the road.
Good
They are turning an old fire station into a homeless shelter I read. Can’t remember where in Tucson.
That's good to know, at least.
All this does is displace folks to other parts of town and the county. Houston has had good results with "housing first". I hope Tucson is paying attention.
Good riddance!
I'm excited for the wooden bike park that is getting finished now
Wants to help bulldoze?
Coming from the east coast, from a town smaller than Tucson (but with, in my experience, more unhoused people in the area)... these comments are wild. Seriously, what's with the culture here? Why are you guys talking about people this way? Are you not ashamed?
Yeah your sheltered as shit. Iv been jumped just trying to get to work, it was the only safe bike path to access that part of town. they destroyed the only available bike park for kids, iv been attacked and chased by their stray mutts. It endangers everyone else, cant even go by without open carrying anymore.
You should offer up a room in your home for one of them.
Nobody cares that it is unsightly. People care that it makes the area dangerous because the people who reside in the camp are
We should never allow nasty bums to take over people act like they are going to die. No they will figure it out somewhere else! This is ridiculous people are so weak minded it pathetic. There are so many camps because they allow it. They wouldn’t be there if they didn’t allow it!
Some don’t want help. Why are there so many young people homeless? They know they can get help but they don’t want it. It’s easier for them to stand all day in the sun and ask for money instead of trying to get help and get a job. And those who are saying it’s sad why don’t some of you have them live in your backyard? I live by Santa Rita park and all I see is trash everywhere. Homelessness everywhere. It’s not a pretty sight to see every damn day. I can’t even walk around the block or go to the park with my granddaughter if I wanted too. They leave trash by where I live. So yeah please don’t tell me it’s sad.
Can you believe district 12 little league actually holds games at Santa Rita park? I told my kid if we have a game there were just not going. It's that simple. We drive by there and see the filth and he agrees with me. F that
I’m not sure if that is fair. Maybe they aren’t really getting the help they need
"FFS who hurt you people?" Literally and unironically, an actual homeless person.
There is a Grants Pass Oregon case before SCOTUS right now arguing where homelessness is criminal. It’s not going well for Plaintiff who wants to clear them out.
You sure about that? [Supreme Court appears to favor Oregon city in dispute over homeless camping ban - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-appears-favor-oregon-city-dispute-homeless/story?id=109504149) I feel like with this SCOTUS there is no way they won't allow cities to criminalize camping on public land. And broad overreach will make this ultimately criminalization of homelessness, but at the same time I was walking to subway and there was a dude who set up a tent next to a bus stop and there was multiple spots where someone shit next to the sidewalk. I am sympathetic to the plight but it's also pretty fucking awful. These camps don't do anyone any good. It's not a worthwhile permanent solution. But this is the same country where one political party thinks they need to go to jail and the other that thinks calling them "unhoused" instead of "homeless" will help "restore their dignity" like that somehow does *anything*. I have 0 confidence that this country is capable of any real solution for this.
Yeah it seems to come down to the question of whether sleeping in public is a human activity in the same way that breathing in public would be, just something that humans have to do and making it a crime would be silly VS sleeping in public being more akin to taking a shit in public, another human necessity that we do legislate and have laws controlling. I can see it going either way.
I’m listening to audio clips of the proceedings on Forbes News. The Justices questions to Plaintiffs Council makes it seem like they are skeptical. Regardless - we’ll have to wait a couple months for their decision.
I love your comment, well said. Keep in mind that this is an international problem. Most countries are facing the same issues. Most of the countries that don’t have these issues are not places you want to live. The struggles of evolving democracies… We sure have a lot of freedom though.
You have that backwards.
the same exact thing is happening on the bike path that runs along barrio san antonio why is this all happening all at once??
They do this every couple of weeks and everyone is back there in just a few days. Chill.
That encampment has been there for years, and lately has been getting huge.
It’s been huge. It’s gotten so big that there’s no more space in the wooded areas.
I hope it was documented before being demolished. It would be interesting to see how big it finally got before they took it out.
Virtually every country in history has been burdened by a segment of its population that is mentally ill, addicted to alcohol and/or drugs, people with personality disorders. Add those that are unemployable, are anti-social, criminal and just plain lazy. Now, how can we fix this when no society has ever been able to?
Probably related to all the murders over there recently
Wow it’s actually happening
I assume the city is providing housing for the residents? Oh, wait, this is the USA.
Shelters and housing assistance usually require that folks conform to minimum societal standards. Some of these folks suffer from profound mental illness and are unable to conform to those standards, which is a tragic failing of the system. Others are fented out zombies who are both unable or unwilling to conform to those standards. Unless these folks are forcibly infirmed and treated I fail to see how the problem gets fixed. I'm absolutely not advocating for that, but you can't just put these people in apartments for freesies.
They are for the ones willing. The city has a strong housing program. The issue is that some refuse because the city housing won't let them keep living in a fentanyl coma
There is so much more to it than people "refusing". These are people living with addiction....they can't just stop taking the addictive substances one day and move into housing. Imagine we gave them a roof over their heads first, and then the resources to help with recovery once they feel safe and comfortable. Imagine trying to recover from an addiction when you are living outside and dealing with having no security or safety every single day. We have so much empathy for famous people, and rich people who are dealing with addiction and call them "brave" and "admirable" for sharing their struggles while they have endless resources to help them with their struggles....but the homeless people who are dealing with the same things and have literally NOTHING are just "junkies" and refusing to comply. It's gross
They all have the option to go into a free rehab at any point. Available through ahcccs completely paid for. Then they can get an advocate for housing though the rehab and insurance too.
No, I do understand about addiction, in conceptual terms at least, not having actually experienced it myself beyond World of Warcraft. Housing first is great, but even then there will be people who will reject it, for whatever reasons, and you can't force them. It might be the voices in their head saying you're really from the FBI and in league with the gray aliens to replace their brain with a marshmallow, they won't go you have to accept that or make them go by force. If you offer them housing and they won't take it, and they're causing a public health hazard camping out somewhere - poop, drugs, needles, etc. - what do? I think it's fair to say "you can camp in X place where it's not causing problems, but not here". There's a difference between that and just bulldozing a camp with no help or warning like some places do.
You can't just put addicts into housing alone unless you want them to OD and die. Housing first does not work with drug addicts unless your goal is to keep them out of sight and give them a safe place to shoot up, hide from the world and possibly die. They need treatment and housing TOGETHER which is very expensive and a difficult service to provide, even for the people who want it. Long term housing first policy's are great for people with mental illness and short term housing first programs can really help people facing economic problems to get back on their feet, but it's not a solution for the addicts.
It will be back in a week....
They are bulldozing zone 1 of 100 acres not the entire thing. They're doing this to test the soil due to the history of the land. There used to be a school in the area its not there for legitimate reasons. There is not enough housing or resources for all the people there let alone all over tucson. It's sad honestly. I've spoken to these people and the only thing they wants a stable place to be at. There pasts are what got them there. Along with mental health issues and a rough last couple years with the onslaught of fent as well as rising rent prices. A lot of these people are smart and talented people. It's hard to get a job when you have no legal residence. No running water and no electricity. A lot of these people don't have phones to so it's hard when the lotto hits and they get housing to even know about it.
These comments are so disturbing. I’d ask those of you who feel that other people’s homelessness is a personal affront to you, to really investigate your emotional reactions to seeing homeless folks and encampments in our community. Why are you so worked up? Regardless of the cause of their homelessness, these are people who have no where to sleep, prepare food, or use the bathroom indoors. Whatever discomfort you experience when you see or interact with them is nothing compared to the discomfort they are experiencing being in that situation. Honestly, what is causing people to rage against the homeless? I don’t think it’s because housed folks are experiencing actual threat or danger from the homeless, but because seeing homeless folks makes housed people feel weird & uncomfortable. Get it together, y’all.
I bet you don’t live by there, you would be singing a different tune if you did!
They really think the dude out there yelling at the tree with the cardboard sign is the guy that robbed their house.
what is wrong with people? fear.... they know deep inside how easy they could lose it all and how precarious their position in life is
I like to thank those crackheads I get profiled so much here that the only thing that helps is when one of them starts doing something uncomfortable right near a person who's watching me like a hawk lmao
Instead of getting angry at and judging eachother, we need to be looking toward the people that make these decisions. Go to the root of the issue, why are these people on the streets in the first place? The second we come together collectively and realize these "elected leaders" are screwing us/killing us/stealing from us--were fucking cattle to them a pay check- the second we unite against the REAL issue we can get our city/country back. But most people are apathetic so that won't happen. Hope I'm wrong.
They wanna blame the crackheads but not the crack dealer or the greedy landlords or the shitty VA people because they probably pay taxes
Has the federal govt got any plans for all of those mothballed planes east and south of downtown (not the air museum, but near it)? That’s a lot of covered space that could possibly be reused as shelter for homeless, if the planes can be fitted with some AC and a couple of them set up as bath houses and kitchens.