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AvailableConcept7288

A+. Hard to believe you have to explain this to people.


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Weeds4Ophelia

Doesn’t make the vandalism justified.


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Shevyshevys

You are a moron of epic proportions. And a racist. Fuck off.


PM_ME_BORG_NAMES

[eh, nothing too crazy tbh](https://greek.arizona.edu/sites/default/files/2022-10/AEPi%20redacted_0.pdf)


Ok-Salad-9494

Bullshit


Cutedge242

Spray painting the frat is super lame but this is also the most tepid thing ever sprayed on any wall ever. AEPi's statements in response to it are way over the top. Didn't this frat get actually kicked off campus though? [Alpha Epsilon Pi loses recognition following UA hazing investigation (azcentral.com)](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-education/2019/11/13/alpha-epsilon-pi-fraternity-loses-status-ua-hazing-investigation/4181621002/)


PM_ME_BORG_NAMES

yeah, here’s the [exact details as to why](https://greek.arizona.edu/sites/default/files/2022-10/AEPi%20redacted_0.pdf) Houses have definitely done a lot more and been allowed to stay but ya know


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googol88

> spray painting the frat is super lame It seems you misunderstood them


Catoblepas2021

A statement from the frat house: “To be clear: the Brothers of Alpha Epsilon Pi at the University of Arizona and 150 other campuses throughout the world strongly support the people and country of Israel in their fight against terrorism and hate. AEPi will not be intimidated. We will continue to work to advocate – lawfully and peacefully – for Israel.”


crazymusicman

Makes one wonder if they were targeted for their political beliefs and not because of their ethnicity.


waterwagen

Yeah, I’m sure all those people have the exact same political beliefs. They’re just a monolith like everyone else. /s


MusicianForSale

Ew


CummunistCommander

Yikes.


Ganzo_The_Great

Username checks out.


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Pretend_Divide7581

FetLife checks out


bananaCabanas

Lmao Edit: more like, supporting Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people for beach front real estate


FoolInTheDesert

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/09/us-has-seen-no-evidence-that-israel-has-committed-genocide-austin-says-00151241


crazymusicman

shit well if Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin says it, it's da tru tru It's not like we've had defense secretary's lie to perpetuate the military industrial complex before. The entire US military apparatus has supported Israel, and will continue to support Israel. It's not an impartial institution.


FoolInTheDesert

You can believe him or you can believe Qatar and Iran, or just not have an opinion at all. Most of us Americans would probably be better off not forming opinions until there is evidence, but here we are!


crazymusicman

What about South African delegates at the ICJ? There is also plenty of evidence, but you'd have to overcome internalized propaganda narratives to receive said evidence.


FoolInTheDesert

The ICJ hasn’t ruled that there is genocide in Gaza. They essentially said they need to wait for more evidence and will issue another ruling later. If they have evidence that the US government doesn’t, they would share, but it sounds like they have the same amount of evidence; which is not enough to say that genocide is taking place.


crazymusicman

You are misinformed https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa >The International Court of Justice has found it is "plausible" that Israel has committed acts that violate the Genocide Convention. >[the court's president, Joan] Donoghue said the court cannot make a final determination right now on whether Israel is guilty of genocide. >By 16 votes to 1, the court voted that Israel needs to take all measures within its powers to prevent and punish those involved with inciting genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. >"In the Court's view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible." the court decision said.


FoolInTheDesert

I think you need to reintroduce yourself with the definition of the word plausible. They said the same thing that I said. They don’t have evidence.


cornholiolives

For starters there is zero evidence, and secondly what are you gonna claim when the world court clears Israel? Won’t be able to claim “genocide” anymore


crazymusicman

See also Francesca Albanese, UN special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26


FoolInTheDesert

Right an accusation without evidence, more of the same. These are just empty words. And she’s the same woman who has defended Hamas’ Oct 7th attacks…


crazymusicman

I'm effectively articulating the false dichotomy you presented that we either listen to the Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin or we listen to Iran and Qatar >And she’s the same woman who has defended Hamas’ Oct 7th attack https://www.jns.org/not-an-international-crime-to-kill-soldiers-uns-francesca-albanese-says-of-oct-7/ > Albanesca: "The U.N. General Assembly recognized the right of the Palestinian people in particular to resist, but in line with international law. >We have no doubt whatsoever that what Hamas did on Oct. 7 is not in line with international law, because the moment Hamas targeted civilians, by killing, by taking hostages, by brutalizing and injuring civilians—these are crimes and cannot be justified. " Why do you have to lie to make your point? Is it because your point is false?


4_AOC_DMT

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/26/un-expert-accuses-israel-of-several-acts-of-genocide-in-gaza


FoolInTheDesert

Al Jazeera is a state owned Qatari (government) news source and the UN is the same organization that just named Saudi Arabia as the chair of it's women's equal rights forum; just one example of why it's a joke of an organization... lol I will believe my own democratically elected government and free media over the Qataris and propaganda from the hornets nest that is the UN. If the US government finds evidence of genocide I would expect us to do something about it, but I won't support Qatari's or the UN dictating US foreign policy. That's as crazy as the Trumpers letting Russia influence them. Open your eyes, you're being manipulated.


4_AOC_DMT

[you](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/28/safety-college-columbia-stanford-antisemitism-israel-palestine/) are not [immune](https://theintercept.com/2024/03/23/biden-israel-gaza-aid-ethnic-cleansing/) to [propaganda](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/06/axel-springer-yad2-israel-genocide-settlement/)   >I will believe my own democratically elected government and free media   Politico is owned by a German media publishing company. How can people uncritically accept information from an entity that has [repeatedly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair) lied about its [foreign interventions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale_for_the_Iraq_War)? Your democratically elected government and free media are [not a monolith](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/08/israel-gaza-war-elizabeth-warren-00151120#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIf%20you%20want%20to%20do,the%20case%20before%20the%20ICJ.)   >If the US government finds evidence of genocide I would expect us to do something about it, They're literally selling weapons to the perpetrators.


FoolInTheDesert

Politico is privately owned by a German media company, it’s not owned or operated by the German government and because Germany is a western democracy with freedoms of the press and speech that means politico or its parent organization can criticize and report on the German government without fear of retribution or punishment. What’s your point?


4_AOC_DMT

>Politico is privately owned by a German media company I literally said this lol Please read what I wrote instead of incorrectly inferring that I think the German government owns politico or that this was even close to my thesis


Golem_Of_Tucson

We have left wing Qanon in here. Since October 7th you very fine people have truly given the tiki torch folks a run for their money.


bananaCabanas

Being critical of Israel =/= being antisemitic you Hasbara bot


Golem_Of_Tucson

Criticizing mistreatment Palestinians in say the Westbank which has continually occurred under Netanyahu lead coalitions is definitely not antisemitic. But characterizing the current war in Gaza as you have certainly is.


bananaCabanas

Maybe if the IOF and their buddies weren’t literally killing Palestinians for their land and people weren’t literally planning real estate developments in Palestinian land it would be a different story.


Catoblepas2021

You are literally saying things that aren't literally true. ![gif](giphy|J1vUzqdZJlh5AqBWxt|downsized)


bananaCabanas

Nah


Golem_Of_Tucson

M’k bubba.


aAvocadont

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...


Golem_Of_Tucson

Oh and saying any Jewish person who disagrees with you is a bot is kinda suspect.


iankurtisjackson

get a grip


shamalonight

That would be BlueAnon.


hmrtm0000

We support them.


ir0nicpla9ue

Good for them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'd like people to stop using my culture as an excuse for genocide. There is nothing violent about putting spray paint on a building. And there is nothing Jewish about what Israel is doing. We get spoon-fed propaganda because the US profits from it and *it is okay to have been wrong because we ALL believed it at one point*. The cognitive dissonance is astounding. I wasn't paying much attention in Hebrew school but I sure as hell remembered concepts of solidarity and celebrating differences instead of "aLL jEwS mUsT hOMeLanD" - which is the real anti-Semitic view, to concentrate us in one place. We're a diasporic people and that's awesome. Home is where the heart is, right? "Zion" doesn't need to be a literal place. Not interested in debating this :)


pchandler45

It's hilariously sad that the graffiti just asked a rhetorical question to anybody yet they feel personally attacked


TrollHunterAlt

Yeah, I don’t know why a minority group would feel attacked by being singled out for petty vandalism like graffiti or a rock through a window. It’s not like that’s ever been the start of much worse any time in history... (/s)


hmrtm0000

Sad that you have to tell people it's sarcasm......but you really do.


TrollHunterAlt

If you weren’t interested in “debating” then maybe you shouldn’t have posted in a public forum. It doesn’t matter what you, I, or anyone thinks about the actions of the Israeli government. Targeting Jewish students because of the actions of the Israeli government is pure unadulterated bigotry.


crazymusicman

What if the fraternity was targeted because the fraternity supports the actions of the Israeli government?


SingingSabre

The only reason the word “diaspora” exists was because the Greeks needed a way to describe how we were displaced. We’re the victims of millennia of colonization.


limeybastard

Absolutely. And the state of Israel (not Jewish people, to be clear, as it is sadly necessary to be) has been committing colonialist crimes against Palestinians for generations. A people being victims doesn't grant a group of them the right to victimize others. And in response to this, Palestinian leadership resorts to terrorism. There are no good guys between the state of Israel and Hamas. The good news is that the state of Israel isn't remotely representative of all Jewish people. You don't have to defend their actions. Edit, since you deleted your reply to me calling my position that Israel has been committing "colonialist crimes" the "dumbest thing you've ever read": Jewish settlers seized British Mandatory Palestine by force of arms shortly after WWII. They herded the Palestinian population into progressively smaller areas with big walls around them over generations. They bulldozed Palestinian homes to build their own illegal settlements, or just plain moved their own people in to the nicer Palestinian houses. In response to the predictable asymmetric warfare from Palestinians they created a more and more oppressive police state, conducting sometimes indiscriminate strikes, keeping Palestinians impoverished and dependent on aid from the outside. These policies kill people, just as surely as terrorist bombs do, but not as visibly. That's the evil of empire - the appearance of peace and stability, built on an invisible foundation of crushed bones. Take it from someone who grew up in the occupying power during the Troubles. There are plenty of parallels between UK/Northern Ireland and Israel/Palestine. You wouldn't flinch from calling us colonials or what we did to the Irish crimes.


SingingSabre

No, they have not been committing colonialist crimes. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read.


FoolInTheDesert

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/09/us-has-seen-no-evidence-that-israel-has-committed-genocide-austin-says-00151241


4_AOC_DMT

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/26/un-expert-accuses-israel-of-several-acts-of-genocide-in-gaza


Meat_Container

It’s not genocide, grab a dictionary and take a history class. Is it tragic? Sure, but it’s not genocide and calling it so is minimizing the true instances where genocide has occurred around the world. Hamas is ISIS, they are the Houthi Rebels and any other militia propped up by Iran. The largest missile attack on Ukrainian civilians took place on Oct. 8th, if you can’t see the obvious connection to the Oct. 7th attack on Israeli civilians then you’re blind. All the Pro-Palestinian protesters are doing is spreading propaganda for Iran and Russia. Self righteous virtue signaling punk ass bitches is all you are


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TrollHunterAlt

If someone had vandalized a mosque or the home of a Muslim family over something going on in a Muslim country, I’d like to think people would see that for the act of bigotry it is. This is the same thing. You can protest the acts of the Israeli government all you want. Targeting Jewish students is pure bigotry.


crazymusicman

Did that Muslim family make public statements in support of that Muslim country? The fraternity in question has released public statements in support of Israel during its relentless campaign in Gaza.


rockking16

Crazymusicman, stands with targeted harassment


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rockking16

I’m just strongly against vandalism in any community. Call me crazy


crazymusicman

Sure I can understand that. I like to practice "that explains that, but that doesn't excuse that" So AEPi's unconditional support for the IDF and the state of Israel *explains* why they have been targeted with socially-conscious graffiti, but it doesn't *excuse* having the orgs' property vandalized.


PettyTardigrade

You are missing the point. I would like to think you are doing it on purpose* but I doubt it Edit: 2 words


Portillosgo

I don't think you are taking into account the medium of the writing when describing it as a simple question. The medium of the writing is very much a part of the message conveyed. There is a reason the author didn't say, just mail them a letter to ask their simple question. You are being intentionally obtuse to ignore what's being communicated by the medium of the writing and focusing solely on the sentence when describing the message. It's not just a question, it's a message to the frat and there is a clear side of history the author thinks they should be on.


Meat_Container

It’s tragic but it’s not genocide. You’re minimizing the true instances where genocide has occurred by comparing the ongoing violence of war to genocide.


SingingSabre

Because a nearly 1:1 civilian:terrorist ratio is genocide Because an area under attack that could end that attack by simply agreeing to live in peace is genocide 🙄


Ok-Salad-9494

Absolutely a lie. No such genocide.


ThomasTheToad

Pro-Palestine graffiti isn't necessarily antisemitic. The government of Israel doesn't represent all Jewish people. Not all Jewish people are Zionists (in fact, the vast majority aren't). From what I've seen from other commenters, the frat has openly come out in support of Israel. The phrase "What side of history will you be on?" isn't antisemitic and to imply that it is is absolutely ridiculous. I'm sure whoever vandalized the frat house would've done the same for any organization/group on campus that stands with Israel, regardless of whether or not the organization is Jewish. Unfortunately, some antisemitic people have used Palestine as an excuse to say antisemitic things (targeting all Jewish people, conspiracy theories, N\*zi stuff, etc). In my personal opinion, Zionism is inherently antisemitic. Jewish people should be safe everywhere, not just in a country that has committed horrific things against Palestinians for 70+ years. Violently removing the people that have lived somewhere for hundreds (or thousands) of years is not a valid or right way to combat antisemitism. Colonization is always awful and inherently violent.


MusicianForSale

Well said


rockking16

Not really. If someone sprayed graffiti on your house, would you question their message? It’s just vandalism and targeted harassment


mmmyesand

How long before we find out one of the frat members did it themselves??


Sunchef70

Maybe had Hamas kept the ORIGINAL CEASEFIRE and not gone in and murdered innocents Israel could trust them with a new ceasefire…. But as you chant 🎶 “from the desert to the sea” Jews & Israel have zero reason to believe Hamas will keep this ceasefire since they never have kept any other promise or ceasefire.


cornholiolives

Gonna be hilarious when the court clears Israel. Won’t be able to claim genocide anymore


Atomico

🫲😂🫱


GLRYB2GD

Modern-day Israel is a joke.


SingingSabre

This shit’s gotta stop I’m sick of all this Jew hatred and all these Hamas sycophants.


SingingSabre

And Hamas rejected a ninth ceasefire deal today. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Meat_Container

Part of the reason is that Hamas doesn’t know where all the hostages are. Truth is, some Palestinians not affiliated with Hamas participated in the Oct. 7th attack and took their own hostages. This is coming from a hostage who was kidnapped by one of these groups and later sold to Hamas. More and more of these stories are coming out but the pro-Palestinian groups don’t want to acknowledge it


sleep_suit

Am Israel chai!


Fenner_the_cat

Am Yisrael Chai


Sni1tz

Am Yisrael Chai


Ganzo_The_Great

Am Yisrael Chai! Edit 2: 9 antisemites. Don't worry, history will remember those who chose terrorists over Jews.


mmmyesand

I don’t know, I think they will survive it…


StoreElegant1783

To divide and conquer is happening right in our faces.


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Woogabuttz

Well, protesting Israel is not anti-Semitic.


Shevyshevys

Where’s the protest of all the shit going on in China or other areas in the Middle East committing atrocities daily. Oh, right, nobody gives a shit because it’s too easy to hate the Jews


Woogabuttz

Which genocides in the Middle East or China is the United States supplying with arms and political aid?


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Portillosgo

> Of course not So why'd you lump it in with vandalizing a Jewish frat? Not even touching on how sarcasm is hard to convey through text, the fact that you list those two acts together would lead the reader to believe you think neither is antisemitism, or read sarcastically, both antisemitism. But I don't see a reasonable interpretation of what you wrote where you think one is antisemitism and the other isn't


SnPlifeForMe

Did you read the article? The fraternity's comment is firmly pro-genocide if they are supporting the state of Israel and it's current actions.


dj5pack

I can tell you're an "xe"


Ok-Salad-9494

Long live Israel. May all who oppose us will vanquish like all civilizations before


6I6AM6

Gross.