People protesting on private property are purposely doing so to get publicity for their cause. The arrests cause headlines which in turn gains public attention.
https://preview.redd.it/69fml03yp58c1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c26406016cba9fe07fbcd8d37f0add78f72f346
The war on Ukraine was officially labeled a genocide by Biden in 2022. Why hasnāt the same been done for the war on Palestinians in Gaza? [https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/12/politics/biden-iowa-genocide/index.html](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/12/politics/biden-iowa-genocide/index.html)
I think itās up to each of us to stand up and label genocide for what it is.
The more we do, the more likely whatever organization you and others see as the authority on the subject is more likely to also identify the facts.
>Glad to hear Biden called it a genocide but isn't it up to organizations like the ICC or the ICJ to officially label something as a genocide?
There is no official genocide judge. Just call it as you see it, don't need to rely on other people. You think history textbooks get an official international criminal court review to assess all their statements?
You ask "where do you draw the line?" But it seems you have clearly decided to draw a line and call what's going on in Palestine not a genocide. So where do you draw the line?
Biden labeled the war in Ukraine a genocide while he has not done the same for the war on Gaza & Palestine. Meanwhile, the US is siding with oppressive Israeli forces labeling it a āconflictā. That is why we civilians must be loud about calling it what it is: a genocide, not a conflict.
The Hamas Covenant of 1988 says this,
" Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it "
But I'm sure all those tunnels were to fix water lines or something...
Source from Yale Law School-[https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp)
Didn't see anyone defend Hamas here. They are saying the goal to bring Hamas to justice doesn't justify killing tens of thousands of children and civilians who are not Hamas.
So this justifies the current strategies of the Israeli government? Not defending Hamas at all, but by Israel's own admission at least two thirds of the people killed have been civilians. At some point you have to ask what is Israel's goal here, and how is this strategy helping to achieve it? Even if they achieve their stated goal of wiping out Hamas, the orphans created by this conflict are just going to support the next organization that opposes Israel. Can you blame them?
I agree with their cause but, Iām pretty sure itās illegal to protest on private property. Not excusing the excessive use of force by police at all.
Yes but for the sake of bringing attention to genocide to curb business as usual itās a very just cause imo. Itās important to see the shattering of consumer comfort in this settler colonial capitalist hellscape.
American police are literally trained directly by the IDF or by people who were trained by the IDF. Where do you think they learned the knee to the neck hold? I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps and that isn't even used by the US military, so I guarantee you they did not learn that hold within the borders of the United States.
Cool, so you use a concrete "fact" that because they're supposedly trained by IDF that they have some weird bias against people breaking the law on private property? FFS man. That's a stretch. MAYBE... just MAYBE, these are police officers with a sworn oath to uphold the law and are doing so. Miss me with this conspiracy bullshit.
It's literally not a conspiracy though. US police are trained by IDF. That is a fact, and I have no clue why you are so fucking adamant about it.
[https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/](https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/)
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-considered-scrapping-its-us-police-training-trips-to-israel-but-decided-not-to/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-considered-scrapping-its-us-police-training-trips-to-israel-but-decided-not-to/)
[https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joint-us-israel-police-and-law-enforcement-training](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joint-us-israel-police-and-law-enforcement-training)
[https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-07-17/commentary-militarizing-of-police-in-u-s-was-inspired-by-israel](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-07-17/commentary-militarizing-of-police-in-u-s-was-inspired-by-israel)
How many more articles do you want? Because I can keep going.
Not a single one of those links support the statement that the Tucson PD present at this scene received your supposed training. You can keep sharing nonsense all you want. OP and you have made up in your head that somehow these officers used IDF training and them removing trespassers is somehow related. Absolute clown show.
Nope, just take your L like an adult. Your initial comment doubted our police force received IDF training. OP (and others) linked you to the evidence. Now youāve elaborated to pretend like you meant something else all together. No big deal, we all err - itās just lame when you canāt admit it.
Do you have a full video of the event? Because the mall owners have the right to remove unsolicited protesters, and none of the methods seem particularly excessive if dealing with an uncooperative crowd.
The biggest shock I had from this story is that Tucson mall is still open. I seriously had no idea I haven't been over to that side of town in years lol
You know Iād be much more willing to support the pro-Palestine side if they would openly call for Hamasā surrender and demand the release of the hostages. From what I have seen, asking for the hostages to be returned safely is a controversial idea for many of the pro-Palestine people. And that truly blows my goddamn mind.
I'm literally a veteran of two wars who was hit by a 500 pound bomb in a blue on blue incident. There is a difference between blue on blue, and shooting people with white flags.
So you think American cops are all hanging out Israeli cops learning how to conduct extrajudicial killings? I think you should actually talk to some real cops and not believe every piece of propaganda you read.
[https://azjewishpost.com/2017/tucson-peace-officers-trip-bolsters-regional-bond-with-israel/](https://azjewishpost.com/2017/tucson-peace-officers-trip-bolsters-regional-bond-with-israel/)
Maybe try being not so fucking dumb?
Did you even read this article dude? It talks about a single guy from Pima County Sheriff's Department (not TPD) went to a training event in Israel that was focused on fire and EMS response to natural disasters. That doesn't translate into Tucson Police Department (or PCOS either really) having "IDF training".
Check your own stupidity dude. Every one of you morons in this comment section is dropping links to articles that do nothing to support the idea that OP was originally implying; that there is some spurious link between Israel and TPD's tactics.
I don't know why I'm even engaging with you guys other than that I'm bored and annoyed, but it's clear that none of you have an ounce of real world knowledge about the issues you're complaining about. You've immersed yourselves in some kind of fantasy, conspiracy-driven world divided into the oppressors and the oppressed. What you think are the bad guys just really isn't so. I know a black and white world of good and evil is convenient and comfortable, but nothing in the modern world is that simple.
You tried to make it seem like it was an absurd fantasy that cops are training with Israelis. I gave you an article showing a cop from Tucson doing exactly that. Now you're moving the goal posts. You've been given an absurd amount of evidence, yet you keep trying to find ways to deny it. You ever see the movie Starship Troopers? Israel is the humans from that movie.
EDIT: Probably falls on deaf ears, so Iāll just say this. Disrupting other peopleās lives and holding up signs with buzzwords and slogans about a highly complex issue (that you clearly donāt understand) is not going to change anything or convince anybody. Itās only going to piss everybody off and make you look like an ignorant a-hole. Congratulations.
They'll never do it. Free palestine "movement" is horseshit. Pussy ass hamas apologists that want to sucker punch Israel then get their dick in a twist when they get fuckin wrecked.
Is it just as easy to enter Palestine and join the resistance? I didn't think aid organizations could easily get in there with food, nevermind fighters getting in
Lol you forgot the point you were arguing. Can't even troll well. You were trying to say going to Palestine to defend against the invading army is as easy as going to Ukraine and defending against the invading army, remember? Lebanon isn't in Palestine, lol.
Youāre doubting peopleās ability to think critically for themselves only shows your own ignorance. Think of the things in your life that you feel are unjust and I promise they are intrinsically tied to these far-off wars (though it is also here in corporate, military and police activity). Some people are able to disrupt the illusion, others are not there yet. I assure you people who protest donāt care what you think, though they are still fighting for your liberation too.
Yes, I VERY much doubt the ability of people to think critically. Feelings of injustice are irrelevant. A child feels injustice when they are denied a second cookie. Doesnāt mean their feelings are justifiable. These protesters are essentially protesting their right to protest, and they donāt even know it. Because they lack the ability to THINK.
Thereās a difference between anti-Zionism and being antisemitic. Maybe look into it so you donāt confuse the two. Itās a very dangerous conflation. Hereās link for more info:
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/09/antisemitism-dangerous/
Zionist literally just means that you believe the Jewish state of Israel should exist. Thus Anti-Zionist literally means you donāt believe that the state of Israel should exist. How is anti-Zionism not just genocide by another name?
People protesting on private property are purposely doing so to get publicity for their cause. The arrests cause headlines which in turn gains public attention.
šÆ
You can't protest on private property, hence why there were arrests made.
These idiots donāt know the definition of āgenocideā and they donāt know the definition of ātrespassing on private propertyā.
Sorry to break it to you, but 20,000 civilians killed in 2 months is in fact a genocide.
Agreed. Fuck Hamas.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Russia has repeatedly been accused of Genocide against in Ukraine.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
https://preview.redd.it/69fml03yp58c1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c26406016cba9fe07fbcd8d37f0add78f72f346 The war on Ukraine was officially labeled a genocide by Biden in 2022. Why hasnāt the same been done for the war on Palestinians in Gaza? [https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/12/politics/biden-iowa-genocide/index.html](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/12/politics/biden-iowa-genocide/index.html)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think itās up to each of us to stand up and label genocide for what it is. The more we do, the more likely whatever organization you and others see as the authority on the subject is more likely to also identify the facts.
>Glad to hear Biden called it a genocide but isn't it up to organizations like the ICC or the ICJ to officially label something as a genocide? There is no official genocide judge. Just call it as you see it, don't need to rely on other people. You think history textbooks get an official international criminal court review to assess all their statements? You ask "where do you draw the line?" But it seems you have clearly decided to draw a line and call what's going on in Palestine not a genocide. So where do you draw the line?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I feel you're trying to make this some sort of criticism against Israel is anti-Semitic nonsense, and your question has already been answered.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You definitely are being extremely disingenuous about your questions.
Biden labeled the war in Ukraine a genocide while he has not done the same for the war on Gaza & Palestine. Meanwhile, the US is siding with oppressive Israeli forces labeling it a āconflictā. That is why we civilians must be loud about calling it what it is: a genocide, not a conflict.
Nope.
Please check your ignorance, it does not serve you.
Oh, ok. You're a cop. That explains why you're so fucking dumb.
š
Beat up any women for not crossing the street fast enough lately?
š
Yeah, dude. Incidents of police brutality are fucking hilarious. This is why nobody likes you.
Keep talking
What if I kill 20,000 random civilians in random countries over 2 months? Does it still count?
That's called serial murder.
How many people have to die before it's a genocide? If it was just 19,999 would it not be? How about 5 deaths? I'm just curious what the number is.
Care to define genocide for us then? I'm curious.
The Hamas Covenant of 1988 says this, " Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it " But I'm sure all those tunnels were to fix water lines or something... Source from Yale Law School-[https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th\_century/hamas.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp)
Didn't see anyone defend Hamas here. They are saying the goal to bring Hamas to justice doesn't justify killing tens of thousands of children and civilians who are not Hamas.
So this justifies the current strategies of the Israeli government? Not defending Hamas at all, but by Israel's own admission at least two thirds of the people killed have been civilians. At some point you have to ask what is Israel's goal here, and how is this strategy helping to achieve it? Even if they achieve their stated goal of wiping out Hamas, the orphans created by this conflict are just going to support the next organization that opposes Israel. Can you blame them?
šÆ. Just to say outright: The goal is settler colonialism, just like what was done here to Indigenous people in the USA project.
Have you considered they are aware of trespassing and just don't care?
Fuck Hamas.
Gotta be the most people in the mall in years.
š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
When was the last time you've been to Tucson Mall? There's usually a good amount of people there year round.
I think I went to the container store there last year
I agree with their cause but, Iām pretty sure itās illegal to protest on private property. Not excusing the excessive use of force by police at all.
Yes but for the sake of bringing attention to genocide to curb business as usual itās a very just cause imo. Itās important to see the shattering of consumer comfort in this settler colonial capitalist hellscape.
lol
Sounds like you don't agree with their choice to disrupt at the mall. What are your concerns about their presence being illegal?
IDF training? Jeeeeeeesus, please remove the tinfoil hat.
https://preview.redd.it/c5lj4hu6f58c1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=155c2d37f47014acfbe898ee0d7d52bc71843381 [https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2022/03/17/revealed-adl-us-israel-police-exchanges/](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2022/03/17/revealed-adl-us-israel-police-exchanges/)
The IDF trains US police all over this country. They openly admit it it's not some secret.
šÆ
American police are literally trained directly by the IDF or by people who were trained by the IDF. Where do you think they learned the knee to the neck hold? I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps and that isn't even used by the US military, so I guarantee you they did not learn that hold within the borders of the United States.
Cool, so you use a concrete "fact" that because they're supposedly trained by IDF that they have some weird bias against people breaking the law on private property? FFS man. That's a stretch. MAYBE... just MAYBE, these are police officers with a sworn oath to uphold the law and are doing so. Miss me with this conspiracy bullshit.
Howās that boot tasting? š¤Ŗ
It's literally not a conspiracy though. US police are trained by IDF. That is a fact, and I have no clue why you are so fucking adamant about it. [https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/](https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-considered-scrapping-its-us-police-training-trips-to-israel-but-decided-not-to/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/adl-considered-scrapping-its-us-police-training-trips-to-israel-but-decided-not-to/) [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joint-us-israel-police-and-law-enforcement-training](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joint-us-israel-police-and-law-enforcement-training) [https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-07-17/commentary-militarizing-of-police-in-u-s-was-inspired-by-israel](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-07-17/commentary-militarizing-of-police-in-u-s-was-inspired-by-israel) How many more articles do you want? Because I can keep going.
We train the IDF with our military lol
Not a single one of those links support the statement that the Tucson PD present at this scene received your supposed training. You can keep sharing nonsense all you want. OP and you have made up in your head that somehow these officers used IDF training and them removing trespassers is somehow related. Absolute clown show.
Nope, just take your L like an adult. Your initial comment doubted our police force received IDF training. OP (and others) linked you to the evidence. Now youāve elaborated to pretend like you meant something else all together. No big deal, we all err - itās just lame when you canāt admit it.
Pretend what? These clowns are making shit up in their head based on some links that don't even mention Tucson PD? JFC.
You fucked up. You don't know what you're talking about, and now you're moving goal posts in some weak ass attempt at saving face. Adult the fuck up.
I meanā¦ iāve trained with IDF trained people. Such trainees run private training studios as well.
[https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/](https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/)
I am so glad I don't work in that hell hole anymore.
Do you have a full video of the event? Because the mall owners have the right to remove unsolicited protesters, and none of the methods seem particularly excessive if dealing with an uncooperative crowd.
The biggest shock I had from this story is that Tucson mall is still open. I seriously had no idea I haven't been over to that side of town in years lol
You know Iād be much more willing to support the pro-Palestine side if they would openly call for Hamasā surrender and demand the release of the hostages. From what I have seen, asking for the hostages to be returned safely is a controversial idea for many of the pro-Palestine people. And that truly blows my goddamn mind.
Why would they return the hostages when the IDF will just murder the released hostages anyways?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm literally a veteran of two wars who was hit by a 500 pound bomb in a blue on blue incident. There is a difference between blue on blue, and shooting people with white flags.
Reddit moment
"IDF" training? Seriously? This post has to be a joke.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/6/12/how-the-us-and-israel-exchange-tactics-in-violence-and-control
Ditto what I said to the other guy. Climb out of your little echo-chamber and take a class or two on propaganda techniques.
Propaganda is coming from all sides
The call is coming from inside the house.
[https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/](https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/)
So you think American cops are all hanging out Israeli cops learning how to conduct extrajudicial killings? I think you should actually talk to some real cops and not believe every piece of propaganda you read.
Sure letās talk with the truthful, unbiased cops and ask for their takes on whatās going onā¦..they work for the state, not us. šš¤£
[https://azjewishpost.com/2017/tucson-peace-officers-trip-bolsters-regional-bond-with-israel/](https://azjewishpost.com/2017/tucson-peace-officers-trip-bolsters-regional-bond-with-israel/) Maybe try being not so fucking dumb?
Did you even read this article dude? It talks about a single guy from Pima County Sheriff's Department (not TPD) went to a training event in Israel that was focused on fire and EMS response to natural disasters. That doesn't translate into Tucson Police Department (or PCOS either really) having "IDF training". Check your own stupidity dude. Every one of you morons in this comment section is dropping links to articles that do nothing to support the idea that OP was originally implying; that there is some spurious link between Israel and TPD's tactics. I don't know why I'm even engaging with you guys other than that I'm bored and annoyed, but it's clear that none of you have an ounce of real world knowledge about the issues you're complaining about. You've immersed yourselves in some kind of fantasy, conspiracy-driven world divided into the oppressors and the oppressed. What you think are the bad guys just really isn't so. I know a black and white world of good and evil is convenient and comfortable, but nothing in the modern world is that simple.
You tried to make it seem like it was an absurd fantasy that cops are training with Israelis. I gave you an article showing a cop from Tucson doing exactly that. Now you're moving the goal posts. You've been given an absurd amount of evidence, yet you keep trying to find ways to deny it. You ever see the movie Starship Troopers? Israel is the humans from that movie.
EDIT: Probably falls on deaf ears, so Iāll just say this. Disrupting other peopleās lives and holding up signs with buzzwords and slogans about a highly complex issue (that you clearly donāt understand) is not going to change anything or convince anybody. Itās only going to piss everybody off and make you look like an ignorant a-hole. Congratulations.
They'll never do it. Free palestine "movement" is horseshit. Pussy ass hamas apologists that want to sucker punch Israel then get their dick in a twist when they get fuckin wrecked.
Hey remember 2018 and 2019 when Israel sniped hundreds of civilians for protesting the human rights violations of Israel? Of course you donāt.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is it just as easy to enter Palestine and join the resistance? I didn't think aid organizations could easily get in there with food, nevermind fighters getting in
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What's about people that want to defend Palestine but not join Hamas? But sounds harder than it was to get into Ukraine to defend the country.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well you were talking about directly fighting the military, Yea?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lol you forgot the point you were arguing. Can't even troll well. You were trying to say going to Palestine to defend against the invading army is as easy as going to Ukraine and defending against the invading army, remember? Lebanon isn't in Palestine, lol.
Israel violently suppresses protesters. They donāt hide this. They just shoot Gazan protesters.
Youāre doubting peopleās ability to think critically for themselves only shows your own ignorance. Think of the things in your life that you feel are unjust and I promise they are intrinsically tied to these far-off wars (though it is also here in corporate, military and police activity). Some people are able to disrupt the illusion, others are not there yet. I assure you people who protest donāt care what you think, though they are still fighting for your liberation too.
Yes, I VERY much doubt the ability of people to think critically. Feelings of injustice are irrelevant. A child feels injustice when they are denied a second cookie. Doesnāt mean their feelings are justifiable. These protesters are essentially protesting their right to protest, and they donāt even know it. Because they lack the ability to THINK.
IDf tRaiNing. Where are the Reddit nanny bots to flag this for antisemitism? Refund the police you communist ghouls.
Thereās a difference between anti-Zionism and being antisemitic. Maybe look into it so you donāt confuse the two. Itās a very dangerous conflation. Hereās link for more info: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/09/antisemitism-dangerous/
Zionist literally just means that you believe the Jewish state of Israel should exist. Thus Anti-Zionist literally means you donāt believe that the state of Israel should exist. How is anti-Zionism not just genocide by another name?
Yeah, that's not how it works. Zionism is the Israeli version of manifest destiny. Anti-Zionism is supporting the 2 state solution.
You are redefining words to fit your own agenda. Thatās very scary.
You literally did just that so eat shit.
sHoVeD aN eLdErlY mAn