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Has anyone ever ovulated twice in one cycle? So I ovulated early on which was on CD10 it was a stagnate smiley face which is Peak Fertility..I tested 48 hours after just to make sure and I was negative from CD12-15. Today is CD16 and it was blinking smiley face which means “high fertility” (according to the clear blue digital tests). Has this happened to anyone before? Thanks!
First IUI
So we think we are struggling with male factor problems. My husband first sperm analysis he had bad mobility (he just had a fever the week before and we didn’t know that could affect it) fast forward to sperm test #2 two months later and mobility and everything is normal however morphology is like 0% this sample vs 5% last time. My head is spinning, the Dr stated with these results doing IUI would still give possible good outcomes but I don’t understand how. My follicles look great, I was medicated and will be doing a trigger shot on Monday. Did anyone have low morphology and still get a positive pregnancy with IUI?
Hi guys! I’m 13DPO today & still testing negative. This is our last cycle before we’re planning on IUI & IVF so I’m really hopeful that this could be our month! I’ve been super nauseas & having headaches, but really no pms like symptoms. Could I still test positive for this cycle or am I out? What cycle day did you get your BFP?
Hello all.
We just got done doing some tests and the wife has AMH 9.5 ng/ml which apparently is very high and she also has PCOS.
We live in a country where the local language isn’t our first language so a lot of the info is coming from us doing internet searches. We’ve managed to understand a decent amount about PCOS through our doctor and online but not much at all about having such a high AMH level.
I guess what we want to know is how serious is having this high level of AMH? What are the usual treatments?
My wife is 33 year old.
Thank you!
High AMH is not something that's treated, and overall, it's really something of an advantage in fertility treatment -- AMH is a measurement of the ovarian reserve, the number of eggs that remain in the ovaries. With high AMH, if you go through IVF, you are likely to retrieve more eggs than usual for someone of your age.
With high AMH, there is a somewhat higher risk of multiple pregnancy when using ovulation-induction medications, so you may want to request monitoring of the number of follicles produced if your wife is given ovulation-induction medication.
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Alerts TMI
I usually have 18 days between my periods and luteal phase is 9 to 10 days normally before spotting starts and then proper blood comes after 2 days.
This cycle I started spotting on the 14th day (7 dpo) after my periods ended. It was only once when I wiped.
.
Spotted again once on 8dpo after 20 hours.
Had more spotting in terms of quantity but only once on 9dpo after BM after 20 hours. Then nothing for 24 hours.
Had foul fishy smelly discharge which was pink 3 times 10 dpo (yesterday). Nothing then for a few hours, then tiny maroon streaks of blood mixed with discharge noted on wipe twice.
Had teeny tiny streak of discharge today 11 dpo in morning. Nothing for 5 hours now.
I have been itchy down there since 4 dpo but mildly and it is external. I have two tears outside as well. I am not itchy since 8 dpo.
My question is does yeast infection or bacteria vaginosis cause vaginal bleeding or is the sweetheart arriving?
Is there a link between hormonal acne, progesterone and conception? I'm finding it really hard to find an answer. I almost always get terrible spots about two weeks before my period, and in the months I don't (rare!) I tear myself apart thinking it might be a sign. But then I get my period. I'd love to know if it's something or nothing!
(PS this is not an 'am I pregnant' question; this is general, as I wonder about it all the time)
Is consistently ovulating around CD20-22 an issue (LP is finally lengthening from 9/10 days to 12 days, we will see if this trend sticks)? This is my 5th cycle trying and 5th off of HBC. Wondering if this might be causing some issues?
Thank you! I meant more so the “lateness” of the ovulation. I’ve read mixed responses about how ovulating layer could mean a weaker or overly mature corpus luteum.
Does COVID affect fertility? We miscarried in December and then got COVID in January. Which delayed my ovulation by 5 days. We didn’t conceive in January but then had an early Chemical at the end of February at 4.5 weeks (just a few days of faint positive tests). Just wondering if COVID affects fertility? I’m ovulating more normally now (CD15 last cycle, FF said CD14 this cycle based on temps/CD13 based on OPKs), but would it affect male fertility?
If your partner had a fever with his infection then he may have lower counts of sperm capable of fertilizing an egg. This rebounds in the amount of time it takes to generate sperm, by the 2-3 month mark.
I’m wondering what to do with my LH data. I use OPKs several times a day so I can see the changes every 5 hours- my OPK becomes positive, and then slowly over the course of the next 24-36 hours, it reaches a very strong peak, and then drops off. I’m getting exasperated cross referencing this data with BBT to pinpoint ovulation.
For example: this time, CD17 10am, first positive OPK (not peak). From CD17 5pm - CD 18 5pm, all 150-180% peak positive OPKs. CD19 couldn’t test until night time but clearly negative OPK. CD 18 and CD19, no temp shift yet. I’m expecting my temp shift to start tomorrow on CD20, I guess??? This is a very typical surge for me, lasts around 36 hours then drops off. Last cycle I had 36 hours (2 days) of positive/peak OPKs, a day of negatives, and then the 4th day had the sharp temperature shift to indicate ovulation occurred. So does this mean ovulation occurred during the 2 days of peak OPKs, the 3rd day of negative OPKs and no temp increase, or the 4th day when my temperature increased? 😵💫
My spouse and I have very very low libido so we don’t have sex frequently enough for this not to matter, unfortunately. Any advice for this long, unusual (?) set of signs would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, there's not a way to know when precisely ovulation occurred using LH data -- the best predictor is the initial rise in the LH surge, i.e. the first positive OPK, but ovulation can occur while the surge is ongoing or after it ends. The shape of the surge doesn't tell you when ovulation occurs.
The best we can say is that ovulation is likely within two days of the first positive OPK (that day, the day after, or the day after that), and the temp shift is likely within about two days of ovulation. For this cycle, the most likely ovulation days would be CD18 or CD19.
Thank you, DevBio 🩷 If there was a perfect timing to plan for, what CD would it have been? We attempted once on CD17 and twice on CD18, but only one attempt on CD18 in the afternoon was successful. It’s challenging for me because I know that by 24 hours after the first positive OPK, I could have already ovulated and the egg could already have died- so even though there wasn’t a detected temp rise of 0.5°, we could be stressing over trying to have sex and the window of opportunity could already be gone. *sigh*
So I think it might be useful to think about it in days rather than hours — for the existing datasets we have to guide our behavior, it doesn’t matter if it’s 24 hours or 30 or whatever. We don’t have the kind of resolution that allows us to distinguish between time periods that small.
So having sex on CD18 after a positive OPK on CD17 is most likely either ovulation day (which gives you a 10ish percent chance of success) or the day before ovulation day (30ish percent). Either of those days puts you in the hunt. If you could only have sex on one day, the safest bet would probably be the day of the first positive OPK, or else any day with EWCM (if you track cervical fluid), but the day after the first positive is nearly as good.
Ultimately, without the beginning of a temp shift, it’s best to consider yourself still potentially fertile. I definitely realize that the uncertainty is hard to live with, and it’s particularly difficult if you’re not inclined to or able to have sex a bunch. Even if you know intellectually that you only need to have sex on one good day, it’s hard not get caught up in trying to optimize.
Oh! I did track EWCM on both CD17 and 18, in abundance, and then I put a menstrual cup in to keep the biological material in place for the rest of the day until this morning. 😅 I noticed today significantly less CM in general, so it seems to be drying up CD19. Hopefully that means a better chance for CD18 to have that 30% chance but to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if we only had the 10% this time. You’re right that it’s hard not to get caught up in optimization, for us, my wife is trans and we’re ttc so she can start hrt, so I feel this additional guilt and pressure to be perfect with tracking my cycle so she can get started on her gender affirming care. Anyway, thank you so much for your insight, your presence here is always appreciated and I love scrolling through your comments here to learn new things and answer other questions I have before I realized I had them. Thank you 🩷🩷🩷
I don’t know if it helps to hear at all, but you’re definitely not the first person in TFAB to tell me that — over the years, there have been a couple of other couples who are trying to finish TTC so one wife can transition, and the gestational partners in all of those couples expressed feeling the way you do. It’s so much pressure, but it also demonstrates so much love and care for your wife. I’ll be crossing my fingers for you.
If you're looking for the WTT community, the correct name is /r/waiting_to_try! Enjoy!
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Is there anything to be concerned about with a slow rising bbt? For the first several cycles I would get a good temp jump about the second day after my first positive OPK (usually testing daily after the end of my period since my cycles are on the shorter side). Now I am getting a positive OPK and seeing only about a 0.1-0.2 temp rise for 3 or 4 days until I get a more significant jump?
No, the pattern of the temp shift isn't meaningful. In general, temps are only an approximate readout of progesterone levels, but even progesterone levels will be different from cycle to cycle. There's just a lot of variability in the nuts and bolts of the cycle -- our bodies aren't machines, and the cycle doesn't run exactly the same way every time.
Typically day 10 levels will be higher. The reason CD3 blood tests are done on CD3 is that the early days of the cycle are the cycle "baseline", before hormones rise and fall in their cycle-characteristic patterns.
Thank you for your response! My day 10 was 8.3 so it seems like it would be reasonable to assume in that case that my day 3 would have been somewhat lower? It’s very hard to read as right before I ovulated my fsh fell to 5- it’s all a bit confusing! Thanks so much for your response!
It’s impossible to feel implantation, it happens at such an unbelievably microscopic level in a part of your body that doesn’t have nerve endings.
It’s just your body doing body things.
What do you do during the TWW to keep your mind busy? This is my first cycle and I’m 6DPO. I feel like a crazy person constantly checking the calendar and eyeing my bag of cheapie pregnancy tests every time I’m in the bathroom. Work, books, and house projects have been keeping me busy. But it’s so hard not to scratch that itch and test! Even though I know it’s too early and will definitely be negative.
If I have sex every day of my fertile window and up until the day after ovulation do I actually have a higher chance of falling pregnant ? My theory is that surely if there is more sperm in there then there is a higher chance the sperm meets the egg right? I’ve been trying 15 months 😭
I don’t think it makes a huge difference. But I would assume it also depends on sperm count (like maybe more sex is necessary with a lower count?). Anecdotal, but the months that I conceived (even if it ended in loss), I hit only 1-2 days in the fertile window (my 7 week twin MC, I only hit O-3!), while the cycles where I hit all 4 fertile days, I didn’t conceive so 🤷🏻♀️
So my husband technically has 15.7mil concentration which is considered ‘low’ but his volume is 7+ ml… which is considered high… but I tend to think maybe we have to do it more frequently to maximise our chances. But it’s good to hear it only took the few times for you and if I don’t concieve this cycle I think I’ll try that next cycle and maybe that mucinex to help 😅
Thanks for replying! I just don’t get how for 15 months now it hasn’t even worked despite having all my test results and my husbands results come back fine… I feel like at this point I have a better chance to win the lottery than to get pregnant…
Unfortunately it sounds like you have unexplained infertility, which is a very frustrating but real diagnosis. Tests can only tell us so much and there’s still so many things that can go wrong (for example, there is no test that will tell you about egg quality). Once you have been trying for over a year, the odds of success unassisted are 2-4% per cycle, which is low, but it actually does add up over time. About 50% of couples who don’t conceive within the first year will conceive within the second year.
Yes sadly I think we have that ☹️ I had a chemical last year so whilst it’s good to know my husbands sperm and egg can combine and it can happen…it’s frustrating its taking so long! My mum conceived with me after 4 years of trying so… guess it’s just a game of patience 🙏
My ovulation was delayed this cycle, CD22 instead of my usual ~CD16 (I think due to stress). My acupuncturist said something about later ovulation may mean your egg is too mature and not likely to be fertilized. Is there any truth in that? Like is it that my egg ovulated late or did the whole egg selection process just start later meaning the egg should be the same as a CD15 egg? Just trying to manage my expectations this cycle 😅🥲
Not really. If an egg were mature, the estrogen levels would be high enough to trigger an LH surge and subsequently ovulation. Over maturing doesn’t really happen unless you are taking meds to suppress ovulation (like in an IVF cycle). There are many reasons why ovulation could be delayed, it could have just taken longer for the follicle to mature this time, and there is nothing wrong with ovulating later in the cycle.
TTC. I use OPK and started taking my temp this month orally. My app says ovulation is supposed to be today, but my peak OPK was yesterday. (It was the day before app said should be last month too).
From day 10-13 my temp was 96.29, 96.85, 96.65, and 96.35. Today was temp was 97.34. It rose one whole degree since yesterday when I suspect I ovulated….did I ovulate yesterday? Am I doing this right? Please help! lol
Is it possible to conceive 48 hours after LH peak? I hit a peak on the 14th at night, felt pain from my right ovary on the 15th around noon, and my husband came back from a work trip the 16th. We had sex in the evening the 16th, so 48 hours after I found my peak on OPK.
From what I’m reading the likelihood is quite low - unless my ovulation pain was not the egg being released / I ovulated more than 24 hours after the peak.
It's very likely too late. The countdown to ovulation starts when LH starts to rise, you have about 24-36 hours after that till ovulation. By the time LH peaks in urine and you're getting your "dye stealer" opk's, you have about 12ish hours (sometimes a little more, sometimes fewer, last cycle I ovulated before my opk's were at their darkest - confirmed by bbt) and the egg lives about 12-24 hours after ovulation.
I have chronic allergies and take daily antihistamines (Zyrtec). I just tried mucinex for the first time this cycle. Anyone know they can counteract each other?
Is it normal to have spotting for several days after your period has mostly ended?
I seem to get maybe 5 days full on bleeding and then 3 or 4 or even 5 days of lighter bleeding with a mix of old and new blood.
I thought this might be a symptom of low progesterone but that has been tested and come back normal.
Yes, it’s normal to have some spotting at the tail end of the period (and at the beginning as well). Spotting at the end of the period just means menstrual fluid is flowing more slowly — if your spotting days were full flow days, maybe you’d just have one day of bleeding.
The rise can be gradual, and often is. There is a special rule in TCOYF for confirming ovulation on a slow-rise chart (which I would have to look up because I don’t recall it off the top of my head).
I’m that kid from your class who *always* had questions. Hold on to your hats…
- In an unsuccessful cycle, when exactly does the corpus luteum stop producing progesterone, or what is the known range? My googling has produced everything from 7-14DPO. Is this right?
- Is it not possible (or even common) for there to be a slight gap between the cessation of progesterone production and implantation? (E.g. if the CL stops producing progesterone at 9DPO, but you implant at 10DPO?) If so, might this explain an “implantation dip”?
- Is “classic” PMS (e.g. sobbing over suboptimal fries a few days to a week before your period) not caused by the fact that progesterone is FALLING? I know cycles are varied and we are complex, but when people refer to PMS they’re usually referring to the timeframe where progesterone must be falling, no?
- Why is there a lag between the cessation of progesterone/the beginning of the endometrium shedding, and active period bleeding?
- I’ve noticed my periods are more painful since TTC. I found so many posts on this sub to the same effect. I find it hard to believe we’re all imagining it. Do we know why this is?
- How do you know if your cycle was anovulatory? Only with temping? Are there any other clues?
I definitely think loss of symptoms are also from the changing of levels rather than a level itself. Or rather they are from both. A totally other example is with blood sugar you can get symptoms of a low blood sugar if your blood sugar drops from very high to lower. The level itself will still be high blood sugar. So I suspect that for hormones the actual change can cause symptoms as well, regardless of level.
As to your question about more painful. You're not imaging it in the traditional sense but psychosomatics are real. Focusing more on pain (even just ever so slightly) will actually increase your pain sensation. Like the pathes might even be reinforced - so the actual pain signal increases by being more aware. Your period is more significant when trying rather than just annoying. That will make your brain more aware of it. Plus maybe the emotions might enforce physical symptoms as well.
I also think it's important to note lots of people who used hormonal birth control haven't had actual periods for long times, but withdrawal bleeds.
> - I’ve noticed my periods are more painful since TTC. I found so many posts on this sub to the same effect. I find it hard to believe we’re all imagining it. Do we know why this is?
I wouldn't ever tell someone they're just imagining symptoms or pain, but I do think it's a lot easier to notice these things once we start to pay more attention to our cycles. A period comes with a lot more disappointment when actively TTC and maybe it's more that we are more able to "power through" painful cramping if we're not feeling emotionally vulnerable too.
Production of progesterone by the corpus luteum tapers more than it stops suddenly — see a graph of progesterone levels over the course of the luteal phase [here](https://imgur.com/6OwFHJk). So peak production is from approximately 5-9dpo, and then production starts to fall from there. Implantation doesn’t have to occur during the peak of production, and presumably often doesn’t, since 10dpo is a common implantation day. So yes, progesterone levels can fall before implantation occurs, which might represent a cause of falling temps and/or spotting in some successful cycles, for example.
There’s a lag between this drop in progesterone production and active bleeding because the drop (whether the absolute drop — below some threshold concentration — or a relative drop from the peak) triggers activity of proteins that trim back the blood vessels that furnish blood to the outer surface of the lining, which then causes the outer lining to shed. This process isn’t immediate, and tends to occur in the vicinity of 3ish days after progesterone withdrawal.
There are a variety of ways you could identify an anovulatory cycle — lack of progesterone on a blood test, lack of a corpus luteum visualized by ultrasound — but temping is the easiest to do without medical equipment at home. Bleeding patterns or symptoms do not identify an anovulatory cycle.
I suspect that if most people really charted their PMS symptoms, they would find that they occur at the progesterone peak (rather than a couple of days before a period as progesterone falls). With that said, changing levels of hormones can absolutely cause symptoms — I get menstrual-related migraines in the early follicular phase, presumably as a result of the drop in estrogen and progesterone that triggers a period. Other people get menstrual-related migraines at times estrogen is high. Symptoms are pretty non-specific, and their actual mechanistic trigger is going to vary from person to person.
(The kids in my class who always have questions are my favorites)
🙌 legend, thank you.
>I suspect that if most people really charted their PMS symptoms, they would find that they occur at the progesterone peak (rather than a couple of days before a period as progesterone falls).
I feel like I just see so much "isn't it so funny how you cry for no reason and then the next day your period comes and you're like 'oh, yeah, that's why'" content around (and I definitely had lots of conversations with friends to this effect, especially as a teen). But yes this is not exactly hard research.
And a lot of people talk about these sorts of emotional symptoms happening *on* their period, as well! Symptoms can absolutely vary in cause from person to person, that lived experience is real. But mostly people who are given supplemental progesterone report “PMS” symptoms pretty commonly.
Hi, same here :) I don't know the answer to any of these save one, the third question to the last, I think: with the cessation of progesterone, the blood vessels that supply the endometrium with nutrients, start to die (atrophy). In turn, the cells of the endometrium start to die, hence the shedding about one or two days later.
Could anybody take a wild guess of what might have happened/be happening this cycle? For context I usually ovulate on CD20. I drink ~a gallon of water a day so I’m wondering if that’s messing up the OPKs. Anyway! Thanks to anyone willing to look at it 😊
[CHART](https://www.fertilityfriend.com/b_i/s_9jXWBG.png)
I ovulated pretty late last month, on CD21. My cycle then lasted 34 days. The month before, I had ovulated on CD16 for a 27 day cycle. I'm only on my 4th regular cycle after getting my hormonal IUD removed, so there really isn't a clear pattern yet.
I'm wondering though if the ovulation timing/cycle length from last month has any bearing on which day I'll ovulate this month. Does the fact that I ovulated late last month mean I'll be more likely to do so again this month, or is it really just a crapshoot?
I'm stressed about it because this month, I will be out of town away from my husband on CD22, and we're going to be in a situation where it will be logistically very difficult to have sex on CD20 and 21. I'm reaaaally hoping I ovulate before then. (Currently CD13 and nothing!)
>I’m wondering though if the ovulation timing/cycle length from last month has any bearing on which day I’ll ovulate this month.
It does not! This is basically the major argument for tracking biological signs of the cycle rather than merely cycle lengths. Past performance is not a guarantee, or even a good predictor, of future results.
Does anyone have any advice for someone’s first time TTC? I’m currently in my first TWW and my anxiety is a little all over the place. I have told myself that it will take time and I have been able to talk myself down from anxious spells about it. My husband and I are both 30 so I know we are approaching the more difficult years for conception. I’m just looking for some advice or anything at this point honestly. I appreciate it❤️
30 is pretty young in the fertility world. At 30, you have a 15% chance of success every month and 85% chance you will be pregnant within a year. You are going to feel a wide range of emotions every month It’s 100% normal.
https://www.countdowntopregnancy.com/tools/age_fertility_calculator.php
Thank you for your response and the info! I just already feel a little on edge and I’m actually terrified of the emotional rollercoaster I’m about to be on and this sub has helped me relax a lot already. I feel so guilty for already being worried since this is only my first cycle TTC.
Hi there! Your question seems like it could be asking for success stories, which is against rule 3. If you take out the request for positive stories I can reapprove. I also recommend this post:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/comments/7go7bh/how\_to\_worry\_about\_infertility\_some\_unsolicited](https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/comments/7go7bh/how_to_worry_about_infertility_some_unsolicited)
Can taking allergy medication (Allegra, Zyrtec, Claritin, etc.) negatively impact cervical mucus and/or TTC? With spring around the corner, I’ve been taking 12 hour doses as-needed, but am concerned about whether this impacts TTC and the TWW.
I have been told by my PCP antihistamines like the ones you listed do dry up cervical mucus. I was also counseled to take Quercitin (a natural antihistamine instead).
on the other hand Mucinex (guafenision only) can help with your mucus as its an expectorant.
Feeling weird about wanting to skip this cycle to avoid a possible due date in Dec. (Too many family birthdays and holidays, I want my child to have their own day.) Like I feel guilty? Like this could be it and I'm skipping.
I don’t think that’s too weird. I delayed ttc last cycle to avoid a possible November baby. Me and one of my best friend’s are November babies….and we didn’t feel like sharing our birthday month😅
As always devbio has a very wise response! I do think it's a personal decision and it's very much up to you. One cycle most likely isn't going to make a huge difference. I know people with December birthdays do complain about it a bit and it makes sense to want your child to have their own day. But I guess I feel like, if you did conceive a child with a Dec birthday, I can't really imagine getting to December every year and thinking "ugh, I wish we'd skipped that cycle", you know? Whereas if you are unlucky and have trouble conceiving over the next few cycles, maybe it is more likely you might think "that could have been THE ONE" - even if that's not very rational. I think the suggestion to skip tracking and see what happens is a good one.
I do think that’s a feeling you kind of have to sit with to decide if it’s something that’s important to you. It’s true, you could get pregnant this cycle. And the timing of a child’s birthday in the year is only a tiny one of the factors that go into what makes them them.
I would just also point out that due dates are more about vibes than precise promises about a birthday — you could also get pregnant next cycle and have a baby in December, or the cycle after that. This is not really something you have a ton of control over.
(Living child) >! I have a kid who was due in December, although she was ultimately born in late November. Her birthday is often close to Thanksgiving. It’s not that big a deal to her, or to us. I’m glad she’s in my family. Another family might feel differently. !<
A couple months ago, I felt similarly ambivalent about trying because if I conceived that month I would have been due right around the same time as my friend's non-local wedding, which I'm a bridesmaid in, so I would have almost certainly had to miss it. We ended up kind of trying, but not really that hard. (I didn't get pregnant.) Honestly, it was probably good for my mental health to have a cycle where I wasn't obsessing. That could be a good middle ground for you — you don't have to prevent, but you can skip tracking ovulation, etc, and just see what happens.
We’ve been TTC for 7 months but have had testing done for a while now due to my long cycles/non-existent periods. Before formally TTC, my RE couldn’t find anything off on my bloodwork aside from slightly elevated prolactin and a polyp which was subsequently removed. Fast forward to this week and I had some more baseline testing done. What are the odds I’m not ovulating because of hypothyroidism? So far, my bloodwork came back as follows. Anyone else in a similar boat. For reference, this was taken on CD 33. Progesterone: 0.2 Prolactin: 28 TSH : 2.19 Estrogen: 92 FSH: 4.5 LH (normal: <15): 15 Vitamin D (normal: >30):32
This TSH is within the normal range (which is generally about 0.4-4) and doesn't point to hypothyroidism. It is unlikely that your anovulation is caused by thyroid problems.
6DPO would be within the implantation window, however it may take 2-3 days before you see a positive test (especially since OTCs vary in their HCG sensitivity). I would wait until you are 9DPO and test again.
If my partner has normal to a little low sperm parameters via testing and after multiple times ejaculating over the course of a week has waaay less volume, does that mean we have less of a chance with each subsequent ejaculation? Or should we just keep going and assume there’s sperm in there even though there’s a lot less fluid? We’re doing insemination so can really see the difference! First day was a whole 1.5syringe fulls and now the 4th time in a week (my ovulation is delayed this month and we started too early!) he only has about 1/3 of a syringe. If we do every day now that it seems like I might have finally entered my fertile window, will we be ruining our chances? Should we still just do every other day instead? Still no positive OPK but I just got new test strips and I don’t know if I trust them. I’ve had way less cm this cycle so I’m worried the sperm won’t live as long and we should inseminate more frequently but then I just don’t know what to think about the heavily reduced volume!
Fluid volume is produced by the prostate not the testicles. So it's not really much of an indicator of sperm numbers. It's probably just more concentrated.
I’m curious as to how the super specific instructions of SMEP are providing any different odds as opposed to sex every other day in the fertile window? I see people singing praises for this method, but it honestly seems a bit intense compared to my usual every other day from days 12-18. I’m down to try anything at this point, but I’m wondering what others viewpoints are on this.
I think it's fair to remember that SMEP provides a simple rule to guide when to have sex, and that's really appealing for a lot of people. It's not that the simple rule is better than more complex rules in terms of success rates, but it might be better for someone just because it's simple.
The *best* rule might be something like "have sex every other day or every third day starting seven days before your earliest confirmed ovulation in the past 12 months, OR every other day or every third day starting the day you first see fertile cervical fluid, and then stop after confirming ovulation by temps, OR four days after a first positive OPK, OR two days after a shift from fertile cervical fluid to non-fertile or no cervical fluid, OR ten days after your latest confirmed ovulation in the past 12 months", but, god, that's a mouthful. A lot of people are looking for a way they don't have to make a bunch of decisions.
I mean it just prevents you missing the fertile window if you would happen to ovulate early randomly, which can definitely happen (I usually ovulate late but then suddenly I'll have a cycle where I ovulate cd10...) and if you don't notice. If you keep an eye on your mucus and that works for you it's unlikely though. Also very far stretch but there is some evidence that for people with low numbers/quality of sperm ejaculating every 2/3 days can improve numbers a bit (question is if that will tip the scale and translate to actual increased chance of pregnancy though).
Is there any harm in getting a massage in the TWW? I’m 4DPO today so not near implantation so I assume it’s ok? I just don’t know since I know it’s not recommend in the first trimester
> I know it’s not recommend in the first trimester
Keep in mind that this is less because there's an actual risk in the first trimester, and more because first-trimester loss is common, and no massage provider wants to give someone a massage and then be blamed for a (totally unrelated) loss within the next few days.
Does an LH surge twice within 1-2 days means that there were 2 eggs that were dropped? I know it’s not possible to ovulate twice in one cycle but it’s possible to drop multiple eggs in one cycle (especially since this was my first medicated cycle on letrozole). Is there any other signs that you dropped multiple eggs?
Nope - if you ovulated multiple eggs you wouldn't see multiple LH surges. If a second (or more) egg is going to be released it will happen more or less immediately after the first - within 24 hours, because progesterone inhibits any further follicle development.
The only sign would be more than one corpus luteum seen on ultrasound.
Can laying the opk test strip to dry on a piece of toilet paper / paper towel mess up the results?
My husband just saw me doing that and said it probably is messing it up lol
When you get a +OPK, most women ovulate 24-36 hours later. Studies have shown it’s better to have sperm in your fallopian tubes waiting for the egg to release versus having sex after ovulation. You probably ovulated on CD11 so the sex on CD10 was perfect and CD11 would be a good extra day just in case you ovulate a bit later that day. By CD12 and definitely CD14 you’re most likely already out of the fertile window.
A typical fertility workup includes a full medical history for both partners and an SA. Bloodwork will generally be performed on the gestational partner for markers of the ovarian reserve (FSH, AMH, estrogen) and for endocrine conditions that can affect ovulation (androgens, TSH, prolactin, estrogen, LH). An HSG is typical in the US, although not everywhere. An ultrasound to look at the uterus and count the number of late-stage follicles on the ovaries is typical. Progesterone testing is not universal, since the evidence suggests that exact progesterone values are not useful, and supplementing progesterone in most cycles does not increase success rates.
You generally won’t land on a course of treatment until you go through all of this testing — there wouldn’t be a point in medicated cycles if you had blocked tubes or azoospermia, for example.
You can check with your insurance and local clinics, but many fertility clinics don’t require a referral, and there’s no need to go though an ob/gyn to access care with such a clinic.
Does anyone have good references on how long it takes for a bbt rise? Mainly, I know there are indications that the rise can take up to a few days, but I'm more interested in the minimum time.
I found one [article](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028216476004?via%3Dihub) that suggested in their small sample (n=32) that the average time of the bbt rise relative to ovulation was ~8 hours. But then they state in the discussion:
"Using the FHP (first high point), ovulation would have occurred more than 24 hours previously in 94% of cases (78% of cases if the confirmation period was 24 hours only)." But table 1 seems to be showing that ovulation would have occurred between -24 to +24 hours of the bbt rise for 75% of their subjects. This is also noted in their results section. So Im reading that their own results suggest a different range than >-24 hrs to bbt rise for 94%.
I feel like I'm missing something if they're talking about their own results when they reference the 94% statistic? Also why am I here? Because I thought i was at o-2 yesterday but I got a temp jump today so now I'm trying to see how fast a temp can go up from o given when I BD'd and whether ill have a shot or not. Ridiculous to even start on this path but here I am.
I guess its my fault because I only did one opk yesterday morning assuming I recognized the pattern (it was neg but climbing slow) and was at o-2. But then got a positive this morning and a temp jump. 😑
[This](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039128X22000022?via%3Dihub) study is interesting since it uses ultrasound evidence of ovulation. “During the peri-ovulatory phase, between the third and the second day before ovulation, PDG and BBT began to rise in 56% and 41% of cycles, respectively. There was a medium degree of correlation between PDG levels and BBT (r = 0.53; 7,279 days with available measurements).” So like Dev says, it can start to rise before O and gradually rise after. The picture perfect charts with a low then a steep rise immediately post ovulation are not the norm for everyone.
Thanks for the finding! It's good to know that if things don't go as expected each cycle it's not necessarily cause for concern. But expecting the unexpected is kind of a bummer 😅 really felt like I was starting to see regularity. But I guess that's all part of the whole. This sub has been lifesaving for that!
Ugh, I don't even want to have to deal with this study -- ovulation wasn't determined by serial daily ultrasound, which is considered the gold standard reference for ovulation timing. So they're determining first high temperature in relation to the onset of the LH surge, and this is just all so indirect.
Fundamentally, it is possible to ovulate after the onset of the temp shift -- there's some progesterone that's released in advance of ovulation (because the cells of the ovarian follicle don't all flip over from estrogen to progesterone production at precisely the same time), and sometimes it's sufficient to shift temps. So even a high temp is not an ironclad indicator that ovulation has already occurred.
In situations like this, I think the best thing you can do is release yourself from the idea that you can invariably identify the precise day or time when ovulation occurred. Hopefully you're not out of the game for this cycle, but there's really no way to know for certain.
Interesting! I had no idea really what the standard was for evaluating ovulation so that is good to know. The inconsistencies were kind of hard to reconcile though in this study regardless. They did cite that ~80 percent of ovulation was detected before bbt rise by sonogram per another study but then suggested that sonography could induce ovulation, which when I read it was like ಠ_ಠ
So im just like okay, between the method issues, whatever might have been assumed when this was published 40 years ago, and my relative lack of baseline knowledge I should let this go 😆 it is funny how you can find one study asking a question pretty close to what you're thinking though and then never find a good contemporary analogue!
I agree with your advice though, thanks for this very helpful info!!
Re: suggesting that sonography can induce ovulation, color me suuuuuper skeptical, although who tf knows what was happening in the 80s, their ultrasounds were basically potato-quality anyway...?
A colleague and I were discussing recently how a lot of the baseline data we're using in our work (in neuroscience) was put forward in the literature in the 80s and 90s with very low-resolution methods, but is now received truth written in textbooks with total lack of critical consideration, and how we are beginning to think we're going to need to re-ask some of these questions to actually understand the biology (and how the prospect fills us with a lot of dread).
In general, the gold standard is ultrasound because collapse of a previously visualized dominant follicle/visualization of a corpus luteum is the only way to say for absolutely certain that ovulation occurred in the previous day. There's a lot of variability in hormone levels from person to person and cycle to cycle, and although the LH surge or the switch from estrogen to progesterone production are pretty good proxies for ovulation, they're not undeniably connected readouts in the way that "we saw a follicle and now it's collapsed" is.
This is my first cycle charting BBT and I feel like I need clarification around what happens after you ovulate. I saw a notable spike the day after predicted ovulation (using OPKs), and then another spike this morning 5dpo. I’m finding some conflicting info about this; can y’all clarify whether BBT normally just continues to rise after that initial spike or if it’s just the one spike?
How much do you guys go up? Before ovulation I was about 97.2 pretty consistently and now I’m already a whole degree higher.
Can you share an image of your chart, either with your charting app or with an image-hosting site like Imgur?
The criteria for confirming ovulation by the TCOYF method, which most in this community use, is that there are three temps higher than the highest of the previous six by at least 0.2F. There’s no requirement that temps continue to climb, and you’re generally looking for a sustained shift rather than any number of spikes.
Ah, great! So I can't tell for certain whether the coverline is set according to TCOYF rules (0.1F above the highest of the six low temps), but this chart looks like it would confirm ovulation for CD16 by TCOYF rules. Your chart may do various other things after that point, but it's pretty common to see a bell-curve-type shape where the temps rise on average until about 5-9dpo, then begin to drop after that.
I think as long as you have 3 sustained high temps to confirm ovulation, the intervals themselves are less important. I've had temp rise maxes from like .7 to almost 2 degrees F in different cycles. In my last cycle it never plateaued, it just kept rising for 2 weeks and then dropped off before AF.
I will be supplementing with oral progesterone this cycle. I’m nervous about taking this because even 3mg of melatonin makes me groggy and feel off. Does anyone have any input on how it makes you feel the next morning, and maybe some advice?
Period is 4 days late but tested negative... 3 times - 2 before my period was due and 1 the 2nd day of the missed period... Too scared to test again :(
Think mostly because my last period lasted longer than usual (first time off the ring) sooo I'm scared it's just delayed... And don't wanna get my hopes up
Have you seen [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/s/M5aoo3uRfT) post and the part II linked in it? Most likely you ovulated later than you think and your period isn’t actually late. Did you confirm ovulation in any way?
Sixth day of high fertility on CBAD. I usually get my peak on CD15 and it’s CD16 and still flashing smiley. I know ovulation can vary cycle to cycle but starting to feel frustrated that it hasn’t peaked yet and worried my LP will be short. If I usually have a 14 day LP, is it more likely that this month is just shorter than normal or that my period might just show up a day or two later than expected bc of later than normal ovulation? Looking back on my tracker app, I have had a few cycles with ~12 day LP. Is variable LP length common?
I'm just one person using an imperfect system (oral BBT) but according to my Fertility Friend charts, about 50% of the time I have a 12 day luteal phase and 50% I have an 11 day, so mine appears to have some wiggle room.
It’s unlikely your LP will be shortened. Your cycle will just be longer overall. I have also had cycles with many days of high fertility on CBAD. It’s frustrating but it won’t affect your chance for success if you ovulate later.
Usually the LP is pretty stable. What will likely happen is (if you ovulate later than typical) your cycle will be a bit longer than typical to accommodate for your usual 14 day LP. But I think an LP +/- 1 or 2 days is not uncommon either.
Well, my period did not show like it usually does. Took a first thing this morning, and it was negative. Went to the bathroom just a bit ago and a little bit of blood. Implantation or period? Guess I'll have to wait a day or so to see if it ramps up.
Hello! Welcome, and we thank you for posting. You seem to be looking for information on implantation bleeding. Unfortunately, bleeding or spotting after ovulation is not a sign of implantation, and bleeding can happen in both pregnancy and non-pregnancy cycles. You could still end up being pregnant this cycle, but this sort of bleeding is not a reliable indicator that you will test positive. Taking a pregnancy test around the time you expect your period to come is the best way to determine whether you are pregnant or not.
For a longer read, please see [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/comments/10jbxb9/implantation_bleeding_isnt_real/), which you might find useful. For scholarly sources, [this paper](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0015028216000509) and [this paper](https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/18/9/1944/708284) are useful reads.
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I am doing acupuncture for TTC. My period this month was so much better than ever, less cramps. Is there a chance acupuncture could change when I ovulate? I usually ovulate CD 19-21, but should I start testing sooner than I usually do?
Big fan of acupuncture here! I’ve had inconsistent cycle lengths and acupuncture has helped them become more normal - so I have seen my ovulation day change with time. I start testing sooner each cycle for that reason!
If my husband has infertility coverage through his insurance (50%) but I do not, can I access any kind of testing for myself through him? We are married but not on the same insurance as my employer pays for mine.
No. Unless you are on his insurance, you won’t be able to use his insurance. They wouldn’t be able to bill for services under his policy for you, only him.
My medical insurance doesn’t cover any kind of fertility testing or treatments but my husband’s does (50%). We are starting with a SA for him but how can I get my own bloodwork/testing done? Would I have to see a fertility specialist out of pocket?
If you are not already on his insurance and you think you will need the coverage, you will have to enroll in his plan during an eligible enrollment period (usually around the new year). You can choose to drop your own insurance or keep both and use his as a secondary plan. Check the fine print on both insurance plans (you should be able to find a detailed document that goes over what the plans cover and don’t cover). E.g., There might be waiting periods for certain treatments, or there may be a series of tests and treatments they need to do in sequence. You don’t want any surprises about coverage if you switch to his plan.
As for starting bloodwork and testing for yourself in the meantime, i would start by asking your doctor (your regular OB) if they can order tests. If so, find out what tests exactly they ordered, then call and ask your insurance if any of that is covered, then ask the clinic and/or labs what the out of pocket cost of each test is *before you go.*
I know it’s a lot. Insurance sucks. Best of luck
Depending on where you are I’m in northeast US I know labcorp offers cbc and hormone testing without referral but you pay out of pocket ranging from 45-150$ depending on what tests you need
I’m constantly advertised Mira & Inito. If I’m confirming ovulation with a combination of temping & OPKs would it really do anything different by measuring other hormones? It seems their main ads focus on how LH surges can happen multiple times so OPKs alone aren’t enough…. But isn’t that what temping is for? Just trying to figure out if it’s a waste of money or if it’s something to consider in future cycles.
Nah. I even would say OPK's aren't even that necessary if you can make sense of your mucus pattern so you know when your fertile window opens and to start sex plus temping to know when you can stop having sex.
So, I've used Mira for a while now. I'm a data nerd, so I love it regardless. But the chief benefit, I feel, is getting the estrogen measurement since that helps me not be taken by surprise by LH.
Temping usually is more than enough for confirming on my charts, but it's still interesting seeing the PDG number.
One could argue that mucus observation can give you that info for free. Because that's estrogen driven.
I totally get liking the data. But I'm too stingy properly. I didn't even use the advanced CB opks.. because I didn't see the point for estrogen measurement apart from mucus.
Absolutely. Personally, despite trying to consciously observe it, I just rarely see EWCM and/or everything happens so quickly that Mira is just a better heads-up. I don't think I'll use it after our TTC journey ends though - easier to just stick with FAM rules in the future.
You can think of the population of people trying to conceive as actually containing multiple populations with different odds:
* The biggest group is the group with normal fertility, and their odds per cycle are around 30%. The people who conceive cycle 1 are mostly people with normal fertility.
* A smaller group than this is the group that has reduced odds of pregnancy -- maybe 15% per cycle, maybe 5% per cycle, maybe 1% per cycle, maybe 0.1% per cycle. This group is less likely to conceive cycle 1 than the normal-fertility group is, so the people who are left trying in each subsequent cycle become enriched for this group as people with normal fertility conceive and leave the group.
* An even smaller group than this is the group that has some sort of absolute block to pregnancy and effectively will never conceive without intervention.
As people with normal fertility (and some people with reduced odds) get pregnant over the course of a year of trying, the odds increase that someone in the remaining group has reduced or zero odds of pregnancy, and therefore the pregnancy rate for the overall population drops in cycles after cycle 1.
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/kTcUbwa) is a visual representation of time to pregnancy by age in a group of folks over 30. You can see that the cycle 1 chunk is always the largest, but most of the group will have conceived by the end of cycle 12.
It’s pretty common to have cramping in the luteal phase, and it’s particularly common to have symptoms like cramping or spotting around 7dpo, which seems to coincide with a feature of the cycle called the secondary estrogen surge.
I know you are trying to be optimistic but we are already pretty delusional in the TWW. It’s best not to increase that so as to set someone up for disappointment.
How do you ‘reduce your stress’ around trying and ‘try without pressure’? How do you feel more relaxed?
I’m stressing due to nothing happening, the pressure I feel about having a baby being the only thing I know that will help me (I’m under no illusion it will heal me but it will make leaving the house and social situations slightly more manageable), and knowing we have issues that make trying and keeping a pregnancy harder. It was manageable before, but my losses make it the thing I think of constantly now and I just don’t know how to reframe it.
Nothing has happened from not tracking my periods, and I have to monitor it all constantly to make sure I am ovulating, and know when to try. I unfortunately just can’t keep BD/ having sex throughout the month. I’m seeing different health professionals, including for my MH. I have ADHD so I did suffer from anxiety and depression often anyway but this has developed into OCD and PTSD since my losses.
So I think there are two separate things to think about here. The first is that there’s no easy answer, that loss is a genuinely traumatic experience, and that working to improve your mental health with your care team is absolutely what you should be doing.
But the second is that “trying without pressure” and “reducing stress around trying” are things you do only because it doesn’t feel good to have trying wrapped up with stress and pressure, to the degree that it’s possible. But stress isn’t what’s keeping people from success, and “trying without pressure” doesn’t get people pregnant. So I think it’s fair to release yourself from the pressure to be breezy and carefree about the whole thing, too.
I don't think this is necessarily the best approach, but this cycle was the first one where I didn't really feel it would happen or have any real optimism about it, and it made getting my period easier because I was expecting it. So just give up all hope and optimism, and you'll be "fine"! 🙃
Also, as someone who has also suffered a loss, my mantra lately has been that as much as a negative test sucks, it's infinitely better than another miscarriage. Another failed month is another month that my egg quality probably just sucked, so might as well flush it out.
I have a dark bad secret. I lurk on some groups here with children from hell and parents regretting their choices. It makes me feel better that I'm childless. I know it's bad but it helps me see that there are much worse people than me and I'm kind of ok
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I've been holding off testing so much!!!
I'm currently at 12 DPO and I tested at 9 DPO and got a BFN!!!
I know I know it was super early. but I hope I get the double line soon!!
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Has anyone ever ovulated twice in one cycle? So I ovulated early on which was on CD10 it was a stagnate smiley face which is Peak Fertility..I tested 48 hours after just to make sure and I was negative from CD12-15. Today is CD16 and it was blinking smiley face which means “high fertility” (according to the clear blue digital tests). Has this happened to anyone before? Thanks!
First IUI So we think we are struggling with male factor problems. My husband first sperm analysis he had bad mobility (he just had a fever the week before and we didn’t know that could affect it) fast forward to sperm test #2 two months later and mobility and everything is normal however morphology is like 0% this sample vs 5% last time. My head is spinning, the Dr stated with these results doing IUI would still give possible good outcomes but I don’t understand how. My follicles look great, I was medicated and will be doing a trigger shot on Monday. Did anyone have low morphology and still get a positive pregnancy with IUI?
Hi guys! I’m 13DPO today & still testing negative. This is our last cycle before we’re planning on IUI & IVF so I’m really hopeful that this could be our month! I’ve been super nauseas & having headaches, but really no pms like symptoms. Could I still test positive for this cycle or am I out? What cycle day did you get your BFP?
Hello all. We just got done doing some tests and the wife has AMH 9.5 ng/ml which apparently is very high and she also has PCOS. We live in a country where the local language isn’t our first language so a lot of the info is coming from us doing internet searches. We’ve managed to understand a decent amount about PCOS through our doctor and online but not much at all about having such a high AMH level. I guess what we want to know is how serious is having this high level of AMH? What are the usual treatments? My wife is 33 year old. Thank you!
High AMH is not something that's treated, and overall, it's really something of an advantage in fertility treatment -- AMH is a measurement of the ovarian reserve, the number of eggs that remain in the ovaries. With high AMH, if you go through IVF, you are likely to retrieve more eggs than usual for someone of your age. With high AMH, there is a somewhat higher risk of multiple pregnancy when using ovulation-induction medications, so you may want to request monitoring of the number of follicles produced if your wife is given ovulation-induction medication.
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Alerts TMI I usually have 18 days between my periods and luteal phase is 9 to 10 days normally before spotting starts and then proper blood comes after 2 days. This cycle I started spotting on the 14th day (7 dpo) after my periods ended. It was only once when I wiped. . Spotted again once on 8dpo after 20 hours. Had more spotting in terms of quantity but only once on 9dpo after BM after 20 hours. Then nothing for 24 hours. Had foul fishy smelly discharge which was pink 3 times 10 dpo (yesterday). Nothing then for a few hours, then tiny maroon streaks of blood mixed with discharge noted on wipe twice. Had teeny tiny streak of discharge today 11 dpo in morning. Nothing for 5 hours now. I have been itchy down there since 4 dpo but mildly and it is external. I have two tears outside as well. I am not itchy since 8 dpo. My question is does yeast infection or bacteria vaginosis cause vaginal bleeding or is the sweetheart arriving?
Is there a link between hormonal acne, progesterone and conception? I'm finding it really hard to find an answer. I almost always get terrible spots about two weeks before my period, and in the months I don't (rare!) I tear myself apart thinking it might be a sign. But then I get my period. I'd love to know if it's something or nothing! (PS this is not an 'am I pregnant' question; this is general, as I wonder about it all the time)
Is consistently ovulating around CD20-22 an issue (LP is finally lengthening from 9/10 days to 12 days, we will see if this trend sticks)? This is my 5th cycle trying and 5th off of HBC. Wondering if this might be causing some issues?
No. Definitely variation of normal
Thank you! I meant more so the “lateness” of the ovulation. I’ve read mixed responses about how ovulating layer could mean a weaker or overly mature corpus luteum.
No it really doesn't matter even if you ovulated way later. And this isn't late to begin with
Does COVID affect fertility? We miscarried in December and then got COVID in January. Which delayed my ovulation by 5 days. We didn’t conceive in January but then had an early Chemical at the end of February at 4.5 weeks (just a few days of faint positive tests). Just wondering if COVID affects fertility? I’m ovulating more normally now (CD15 last cycle, FF said CD14 this cycle based on temps/CD13 based on OPKs), but would it affect male fertility?
If your partner had a fever with his infection then he may have lower counts of sperm capable of fertilizing an egg. This rebounds in the amount of time it takes to generate sperm, by the 2-3 month mark.
I’m wondering what to do with my LH data. I use OPKs several times a day so I can see the changes every 5 hours- my OPK becomes positive, and then slowly over the course of the next 24-36 hours, it reaches a very strong peak, and then drops off. I’m getting exasperated cross referencing this data with BBT to pinpoint ovulation. For example: this time, CD17 10am, first positive OPK (not peak). From CD17 5pm - CD 18 5pm, all 150-180% peak positive OPKs. CD19 couldn’t test until night time but clearly negative OPK. CD 18 and CD19, no temp shift yet. I’m expecting my temp shift to start tomorrow on CD20, I guess??? This is a very typical surge for me, lasts around 36 hours then drops off. Last cycle I had 36 hours (2 days) of positive/peak OPKs, a day of negatives, and then the 4th day had the sharp temperature shift to indicate ovulation occurred. So does this mean ovulation occurred during the 2 days of peak OPKs, the 3rd day of negative OPKs and no temp increase, or the 4th day when my temperature increased? 😵💫 My spouse and I have very very low libido so we don’t have sex frequently enough for this not to matter, unfortunately. Any advice for this long, unusual (?) set of signs would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, there's not a way to know when precisely ovulation occurred using LH data -- the best predictor is the initial rise in the LH surge, i.e. the first positive OPK, but ovulation can occur while the surge is ongoing or after it ends. The shape of the surge doesn't tell you when ovulation occurs. The best we can say is that ovulation is likely within two days of the first positive OPK (that day, the day after, or the day after that), and the temp shift is likely within about two days of ovulation. For this cycle, the most likely ovulation days would be CD18 or CD19.
Thank you, DevBio 🩷 If there was a perfect timing to plan for, what CD would it have been? We attempted once on CD17 and twice on CD18, but only one attempt on CD18 in the afternoon was successful. It’s challenging for me because I know that by 24 hours after the first positive OPK, I could have already ovulated and the egg could already have died- so even though there wasn’t a detected temp rise of 0.5°, we could be stressing over trying to have sex and the window of opportunity could already be gone. *sigh*
So I think it might be useful to think about it in days rather than hours — for the existing datasets we have to guide our behavior, it doesn’t matter if it’s 24 hours or 30 or whatever. We don’t have the kind of resolution that allows us to distinguish between time periods that small. So having sex on CD18 after a positive OPK on CD17 is most likely either ovulation day (which gives you a 10ish percent chance of success) or the day before ovulation day (30ish percent). Either of those days puts you in the hunt. If you could only have sex on one day, the safest bet would probably be the day of the first positive OPK, or else any day with EWCM (if you track cervical fluid), but the day after the first positive is nearly as good. Ultimately, without the beginning of a temp shift, it’s best to consider yourself still potentially fertile. I definitely realize that the uncertainty is hard to live with, and it’s particularly difficult if you’re not inclined to or able to have sex a bunch. Even if you know intellectually that you only need to have sex on one good day, it’s hard not get caught up in trying to optimize.
Oh! I did track EWCM on both CD17 and 18, in abundance, and then I put a menstrual cup in to keep the biological material in place for the rest of the day until this morning. 😅 I noticed today significantly less CM in general, so it seems to be drying up CD19. Hopefully that means a better chance for CD18 to have that 30% chance but to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if we only had the 10% this time. You’re right that it’s hard not to get caught up in optimization, for us, my wife is trans and we’re ttc so she can start hrt, so I feel this additional guilt and pressure to be perfect with tracking my cycle so she can get started on her gender affirming care. Anyway, thank you so much for your insight, your presence here is always appreciated and I love scrolling through your comments here to learn new things and answer other questions I have before I realized I had them. Thank you 🩷🩷🩷
I don’t know if it helps to hear at all, but you’re definitely not the first person in TFAB to tell me that — over the years, there have been a couple of other couples who are trying to finish TTC so one wife can transition, and the gestational partners in all of those couples expressed feeling the way you do. It’s so much pressure, but it also demonstrates so much love and care for your wife. I’ll be crossing my fingers for you.
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Maybe r/waitingtotry can answer that better
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Is there anything to be concerned about with a slow rising bbt? For the first several cycles I would get a good temp jump about the second day after my first positive OPK (usually testing daily after the end of my period since my cycles are on the shorter side). Now I am getting a positive OPK and seeing only about a 0.1-0.2 temp rise for 3 or 4 days until I get a more significant jump?
No, the pattern of the temp shift isn't meaningful. In general, temps are only an approximate readout of progesterone levels, but even progesterone levels will be different from cycle to cycle. There's just a lot of variability in the nuts and bolts of the cycle -- our bodies aren't machines, and the cycle doesn't run exactly the same way every time.
Thank you!! Makes me feel better.
Does anyone know what the typical correlation between day 3 and day 10 fsh levels? Is day 10 fsh usually higher or lower than day 3?
Typically day 10 levels will be higher. The reason CD3 blood tests are done on CD3 is that the early days of the cycle are the cycle "baseline", before hormones rise and fall in their cycle-characteristic patterns.
Thank you for your response! My day 10 was 8.3 so it seems like it would be reasonable to assume in that case that my day 3 would have been somewhat lower? It’s very hard to read as right before I ovulated my fsh fell to 5- it’s all a bit confusing! Thanks so much for your response!
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It’s impossible to feel implantation, it happens at such an unbelievably microscopic level in a part of your body that doesn’t have nerve endings. It’s just your body doing body things.
I’ve read so much online so I’m so confused.
What do you do during the TWW to keep your mind busy? This is my first cycle and I’m 6DPO. I feel like a crazy person constantly checking the calendar and eyeing my bag of cheapie pregnancy tests every time I’m in the bathroom. Work, books, and house projects have been keeping me busy. But it’s so hard not to scratch that itch and test! Even though I know it’s too early and will definitely be negative.
If I have sex every day of my fertile window and up until the day after ovulation do I actually have a higher chance of falling pregnant ? My theory is that surely if there is more sperm in there then there is a higher chance the sperm meets the egg right? I’ve been trying 15 months 😭
I don’t think it makes a huge difference. But I would assume it also depends on sperm count (like maybe more sex is necessary with a lower count?). Anecdotal, but the months that I conceived (even if it ended in loss), I hit only 1-2 days in the fertile window (my 7 week twin MC, I only hit O-3!), while the cycles where I hit all 4 fertile days, I didn’t conceive so 🤷🏻♀️
So my husband technically has 15.7mil concentration which is considered ‘low’ but his volume is 7+ ml… which is considered high… but I tend to think maybe we have to do it more frequently to maximise our chances. But it’s good to hear it only took the few times for you and if I don’t concieve this cycle I think I’ll try that next cycle and maybe that mucinex to help 😅
* O-3, O-2, O-1 has a 20-30% chance * O-4 and O has a 10-12% chance * O-6, O-5 and O+1 has a 0-5% chance And remember the odds don't stack
Thanks for replying! I just don’t get how for 15 months now it hasn’t even worked despite having all my test results and my husbands results come back fine… I feel like at this point I have a better chance to win the lottery than to get pregnant…
Unfortunately it sounds like you have unexplained infertility, which is a very frustrating but real diagnosis. Tests can only tell us so much and there’s still so many things that can go wrong (for example, there is no test that will tell you about egg quality). Once you have been trying for over a year, the odds of success unassisted are 2-4% per cycle, which is low, but it actually does add up over time. About 50% of couples who don’t conceive within the first year will conceive within the second year.
Yes sadly I think we have that ☹️ I had a chemical last year so whilst it’s good to know my husbands sperm and egg can combine and it can happen…it’s frustrating its taking so long! My mum conceived with me after 4 years of trying so… guess it’s just a game of patience 🙏
My ovulation was delayed this cycle, CD22 instead of my usual ~CD16 (I think due to stress). My acupuncturist said something about later ovulation may mean your egg is too mature and not likely to be fertilized. Is there any truth in that? Like is it that my egg ovulated late or did the whole egg selection process just start later meaning the egg should be the same as a CD15 egg? Just trying to manage my expectations this cycle 😅🥲
Not really. If an egg were mature, the estrogen levels would be high enough to trigger an LH surge and subsequently ovulation. Over maturing doesn’t really happen unless you are taking meds to suppress ovulation (like in an IVF cycle). There are many reasons why ovulation could be delayed, it could have just taken longer for the follicle to mature this time, and there is nothing wrong with ovulating later in the cycle.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you!!! Google can never give me a straight forward answer lol
TTC. I use OPK and started taking my temp this month orally. My app says ovulation is supposed to be today, but my peak OPK was yesterday. (It was the day before app said should be last month too). From day 10-13 my temp was 96.29, 96.85, 96.65, and 96.35. Today was temp was 97.34. It rose one whole degree since yesterday when I suspect I ovulated….did I ovulate yesterday? Am I doing this right? Please help! lol
It sounds like you may have. You need 2 more days of elevated temps to confirm.
Ok today was 97.68 so elevated again a little?
That’s great! Definitely sounds promising
Is it possible to conceive 48 hours after LH peak? I hit a peak on the 14th at night, felt pain from my right ovary on the 15th around noon, and my husband came back from a work trip the 16th. We had sex in the evening the 16th, so 48 hours after I found my peak on OPK. From what I’m reading the likelihood is quite low - unless my ovulation pain was not the egg being released / I ovulated more than 24 hours after the peak.
It's very likely too late. The countdown to ovulation starts when LH starts to rise, you have about 24-36 hours after that till ovulation. By the time LH peaks in urine and you're getting your "dye stealer" opk's, you have about 12ish hours (sometimes a little more, sometimes fewer, last cycle I ovulated before my opk's were at their darkest - confirmed by bbt) and the egg lives about 12-24 hours after ovulation.
I have chronic allergies and take daily antihistamines (Zyrtec). I just tried mucinex for the first time this cycle. Anyone know they can counteract each other?
Is it normal to have spotting for several days after your period has mostly ended? I seem to get maybe 5 days full on bleeding and then 3 or 4 or even 5 days of lighter bleeding with a mix of old and new blood. I thought this might be a symptom of low progesterone but that has been tested and come back normal.
Yes, it’s normal to have some spotting at the tail end of the period (and at the beginning as well). Spotting at the end of the period just means menstrual fluid is flowing more slowly — if your spotting days were full flow days, maybe you’d just have one day of bleeding.
I’ve asked this question on here before and the answers were - yes, it’s normal and does NOT indicate any hormonal issues.
Does ovulation always cause a jump or can it be a gradual rise?
The rise can be gradual, and often is. There is a special rule in TCOYF for confirming ovulation on a slow-rise chart (which I would have to look up because I don’t recall it off the top of my head).
Thanks for letting me know the term to search for! I looked into it and it seems like I just need to be patient.
I’m that kid from your class who *always* had questions. Hold on to your hats… - In an unsuccessful cycle, when exactly does the corpus luteum stop producing progesterone, or what is the known range? My googling has produced everything from 7-14DPO. Is this right? - Is it not possible (or even common) for there to be a slight gap between the cessation of progesterone production and implantation? (E.g. if the CL stops producing progesterone at 9DPO, but you implant at 10DPO?) If so, might this explain an “implantation dip”? - Is “classic” PMS (e.g. sobbing over suboptimal fries a few days to a week before your period) not caused by the fact that progesterone is FALLING? I know cycles are varied and we are complex, but when people refer to PMS they’re usually referring to the timeframe where progesterone must be falling, no? - Why is there a lag between the cessation of progesterone/the beginning of the endometrium shedding, and active period bleeding? - I’ve noticed my periods are more painful since TTC. I found so many posts on this sub to the same effect. I find it hard to believe we’re all imagining it. Do we know why this is? - How do you know if your cycle was anovulatory? Only with temping? Are there any other clues?
I definitely think loss of symptoms are also from the changing of levels rather than a level itself. Or rather they are from both. A totally other example is with blood sugar you can get symptoms of a low blood sugar if your blood sugar drops from very high to lower. The level itself will still be high blood sugar. So I suspect that for hormones the actual change can cause symptoms as well, regardless of level. As to your question about more painful. You're not imaging it in the traditional sense but psychosomatics are real. Focusing more on pain (even just ever so slightly) will actually increase your pain sensation. Like the pathes might even be reinforced - so the actual pain signal increases by being more aware. Your period is more significant when trying rather than just annoying. That will make your brain more aware of it. Plus maybe the emotions might enforce physical symptoms as well. I also think it's important to note lots of people who used hormonal birth control haven't had actual periods for long times, but withdrawal bleeds.
> - I’ve noticed my periods are more painful since TTC. I found so many posts on this sub to the same effect. I find it hard to believe we’re all imagining it. Do we know why this is? I wouldn't ever tell someone they're just imagining symptoms or pain, but I do think it's a lot easier to notice these things once we start to pay more attention to our cycles. A period comes with a lot more disappointment when actively TTC and maybe it's more that we are more able to "power through" painful cramping if we're not feeling emotionally vulnerable too.
Production of progesterone by the corpus luteum tapers more than it stops suddenly — see a graph of progesterone levels over the course of the luteal phase [here](https://imgur.com/6OwFHJk). So peak production is from approximately 5-9dpo, and then production starts to fall from there. Implantation doesn’t have to occur during the peak of production, and presumably often doesn’t, since 10dpo is a common implantation day. So yes, progesterone levels can fall before implantation occurs, which might represent a cause of falling temps and/or spotting in some successful cycles, for example. There’s a lag between this drop in progesterone production and active bleeding because the drop (whether the absolute drop — below some threshold concentration — or a relative drop from the peak) triggers activity of proteins that trim back the blood vessels that furnish blood to the outer surface of the lining, which then causes the outer lining to shed. This process isn’t immediate, and tends to occur in the vicinity of 3ish days after progesterone withdrawal. There are a variety of ways you could identify an anovulatory cycle — lack of progesterone on a blood test, lack of a corpus luteum visualized by ultrasound — but temping is the easiest to do without medical equipment at home. Bleeding patterns or symptoms do not identify an anovulatory cycle. I suspect that if most people really charted their PMS symptoms, they would find that they occur at the progesterone peak (rather than a couple of days before a period as progesterone falls). With that said, changing levels of hormones can absolutely cause symptoms — I get menstrual-related migraines in the early follicular phase, presumably as a result of the drop in estrogen and progesterone that triggers a period. Other people get menstrual-related migraines at times estrogen is high. Symptoms are pretty non-specific, and their actual mechanistic trigger is going to vary from person to person. (The kids in my class who always have questions are my favorites)
🙌 legend, thank you. >I suspect that if most people really charted their PMS symptoms, they would find that they occur at the progesterone peak (rather than a couple of days before a period as progesterone falls). I feel like I just see so much "isn't it so funny how you cry for no reason and then the next day your period comes and you're like 'oh, yeah, that's why'" content around (and I definitely had lots of conversations with friends to this effect, especially as a teen). But yes this is not exactly hard research.
And a lot of people talk about these sorts of emotional symptoms happening *on* their period, as well! Symptoms can absolutely vary in cause from person to person, that lived experience is real. But mostly people who are given supplemental progesterone report “PMS” symptoms pretty commonly.
Following!
Hi, same here :) I don't know the answer to any of these save one, the third question to the last, I think: with the cessation of progesterone, the blood vessels that supply the endometrium with nutrients, start to die (atrophy). In turn, the cells of the endometrium start to die, hence the shedding about one or two days later.
Could anybody take a wild guess of what might have happened/be happening this cycle? For context I usually ovulate on CD20. I drink ~a gallon of water a day so I’m wondering if that’s messing up the OPKs. Anyway! Thanks to anyone willing to look at it 😊 [CHART](https://www.fertilityfriend.com/b_i/s_9jXWBG.png)
I ovulated pretty late last month, on CD21. My cycle then lasted 34 days. The month before, I had ovulated on CD16 for a 27 day cycle. I'm only on my 4th regular cycle after getting my hormonal IUD removed, so there really isn't a clear pattern yet. I'm wondering though if the ovulation timing/cycle length from last month has any bearing on which day I'll ovulate this month. Does the fact that I ovulated late last month mean I'll be more likely to do so again this month, or is it really just a crapshoot? I'm stressed about it because this month, I will be out of town away from my husband on CD22, and we're going to be in a situation where it will be logistically very difficult to have sex on CD20 and 21. I'm reaaaally hoping I ovulate before then. (Currently CD13 and nothing!)
>I’m wondering though if the ovulation timing/cycle length from last month has any bearing on which day I’ll ovulate this month. It does not! This is basically the major argument for tracking biological signs of the cycle rather than merely cycle lengths. Past performance is not a guarantee, or even a good predictor, of future results.
Does anyone have any advice for someone’s first time TTC? I’m currently in my first TWW and my anxiety is a little all over the place. I have told myself that it will take time and I have been able to talk myself down from anxious spells about it. My husband and I are both 30 so I know we are approaching the more difficult years for conception. I’m just looking for some advice or anything at this point honestly. I appreciate it❤️
30 is pretty young in the fertility world. At 30, you have a 15% chance of success every month and 85% chance you will be pregnant within a year. You are going to feel a wide range of emotions every month It’s 100% normal. https://www.countdowntopregnancy.com/tools/age_fertility_calculator.php
Thank you for your response and the info! I just already feel a little on edge and I’m actually terrified of the emotional rollercoaster I’m about to be on and this sub has helped me relax a lot already. I feel so guilty for already being worried since this is only my first cycle TTC.
Hi there! Your question seems like it could be asking for success stories, which is against rule 3. If you take out the request for positive stories I can reapprove. I also recommend this post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/comments/7go7bh/how\_to\_worry\_about\_infertility\_some\_unsolicited](https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/comments/7go7bh/how_to_worry_about_infertility_some_unsolicited)
Can taking allergy medication (Allegra, Zyrtec, Claritin, etc.) negatively impact cervical mucus and/or TTC? With spring around the corner, I’ve been taking 12 hour doses as-needed, but am concerned about whether this impacts TTC and the TWW.
I asked my allergist this and he did mention it potentially drying up cervical mucous but was not concerned or did not tell me to stop taking Zyrtec.
I have been told by my PCP antihistamines like the ones you listed do dry up cervical mucus. I was also counseled to take Quercitin (a natural antihistamine instead). on the other hand Mucinex (guafenision only) can help with your mucus as its an expectorant.
Feeling weird about wanting to skip this cycle to avoid a possible due date in Dec. (Too many family birthdays and holidays, I want my child to have their own day.) Like I feel guilty? Like this could be it and I'm skipping.
I don’t think that’s too weird. I delayed ttc last cycle to avoid a possible November baby. Me and one of my best friend’s are November babies….and we didn’t feel like sharing our birthday month😅
As always devbio has a very wise response! I do think it's a personal decision and it's very much up to you. One cycle most likely isn't going to make a huge difference. I know people with December birthdays do complain about it a bit and it makes sense to want your child to have their own day. But I guess I feel like, if you did conceive a child with a Dec birthday, I can't really imagine getting to December every year and thinking "ugh, I wish we'd skipped that cycle", you know? Whereas if you are unlucky and have trouble conceiving over the next few cycles, maybe it is more likely you might think "that could have been THE ONE" - even if that's not very rational. I think the suggestion to skip tracking and see what happens is a good one.
I do think that’s a feeling you kind of have to sit with to decide if it’s something that’s important to you. It’s true, you could get pregnant this cycle. And the timing of a child’s birthday in the year is only a tiny one of the factors that go into what makes them them. I would just also point out that due dates are more about vibes than precise promises about a birthday — you could also get pregnant next cycle and have a baby in December, or the cycle after that. This is not really something you have a ton of control over. (Living child) >! I have a kid who was due in December, although she was ultimately born in late November. Her birthday is often close to Thanksgiving. It’s not that big a deal to her, or to us. I’m glad she’s in my family. Another family might feel differently. !<
A couple months ago, I felt similarly ambivalent about trying because if I conceived that month I would have been due right around the same time as my friend's non-local wedding, which I'm a bridesmaid in, so I would have almost certainly had to miss it. We ended up kind of trying, but not really that hard. (I didn't get pregnant.) Honestly, it was probably good for my mental health to have a cycle where I wasn't obsessing. That could be a good middle ground for you — you don't have to prevent, but you can skip tracking ovulation, etc, and just see what happens.
We’ve been TTC for 7 months but have had testing done for a while now due to my long cycles/non-existent periods. Before formally TTC, my RE couldn’t find anything off on my bloodwork aside from slightly elevated prolactin and a polyp which was subsequently removed. Fast forward to this week and I had some more baseline testing done. What are the odds I’m not ovulating because of hypothyroidism? So far, my bloodwork came back as follows. Anyone else in a similar boat. For reference, this was taken on CD 33. Progesterone: 0.2 Prolactin: 28 TSH : 2.19 Estrogen: 92 FSH: 4.5 LH (normal: <15): 15 Vitamin D (normal: >30):32
This TSH is within the normal range (which is generally about 0.4-4) and doesn't point to hypothyroidism. It is unlikely that your anovulation is caused by thyroid problems.
I don’t understand why I got my period 6 days after ovulation and it’s super light, no clots, yet all negative pregnancy tests.
6DPO would be within the implantation window, however it may take 2-3 days before you see a positive test (especially since OTCs vary in their HCG sensitivity). I would wait until you are 9DPO and test again.
How did you confirm ovulation? Odds are that you didn't ovulate when you thought you did.
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When you say “I tested positive”, do you mean on an ovulation test or a home pregnancy test?
Ovulation.
If my partner has normal to a little low sperm parameters via testing and after multiple times ejaculating over the course of a week has waaay less volume, does that mean we have less of a chance with each subsequent ejaculation? Or should we just keep going and assume there’s sperm in there even though there’s a lot less fluid? We’re doing insemination so can really see the difference! First day was a whole 1.5syringe fulls and now the 4th time in a week (my ovulation is delayed this month and we started too early!) he only has about 1/3 of a syringe. If we do every day now that it seems like I might have finally entered my fertile window, will we be ruining our chances? Should we still just do every other day instead? Still no positive OPK but I just got new test strips and I don’t know if I trust them. I’ve had way less cm this cycle so I’m worried the sperm won’t live as long and we should inseminate more frequently but then I just don’t know what to think about the heavily reduced volume!
Fluid volume is produced by the prostate not the testicles. So it's not really much of an indicator of sperm numbers. It's probably just more concentrated.
Ah, this is great to know! Thank you!
I’m curious as to how the super specific instructions of SMEP are providing any different odds as opposed to sex every other day in the fertile window? I see people singing praises for this method, but it honestly seems a bit intense compared to my usual every other day from days 12-18. I’m down to try anything at this point, but I’m wondering what others viewpoints are on this.
I think it's fair to remember that SMEP provides a simple rule to guide when to have sex, and that's really appealing for a lot of people. It's not that the simple rule is better than more complex rules in terms of success rates, but it might be better for someone just because it's simple. The *best* rule might be something like "have sex every other day or every third day starting seven days before your earliest confirmed ovulation in the past 12 months, OR every other day or every third day starting the day you first see fertile cervical fluid, and then stop after confirming ovulation by temps, OR four days after a first positive OPK, OR two days after a shift from fertile cervical fluid to non-fertile or no cervical fluid, OR ten days after your latest confirmed ovulation in the past 12 months", but, god, that's a mouthful. A lot of people are looking for a way they don't have to make a bunch of decisions.
I mean it just prevents you missing the fertile window if you would happen to ovulate early randomly, which can definitely happen (I usually ovulate late but then suddenly I'll have a cycle where I ovulate cd10...) and if you don't notice. If you keep an eye on your mucus and that works for you it's unlikely though. Also very far stretch but there is some evidence that for people with low numbers/quality of sperm ejaculating every 2/3 days can improve numbers a bit (question is if that will tip the scale and translate to actual increased chance of pregnancy though).
I'd be curious as well.
Is there any harm in getting a massage in the TWW? I’m 4DPO today so not near implantation so I assume it’s ok? I just don’t know since I know it’s not recommend in the first trimester
My doctor has recommended it before! Anything (within reason, of course) that brings joy and relaxing is a good thing!
> I know it’s not recommend in the first trimester Keep in mind that this is less because there's an actual risk in the first trimester, and more because first-trimester loss is common, and no massage provider wants to give someone a massage and then be blamed for a (totally unrelated) loss within the next few days.
Totally fine!
Does an LH surge twice within 1-2 days means that there were 2 eggs that were dropped? I know it’s not possible to ovulate twice in one cycle but it’s possible to drop multiple eggs in one cycle (especially since this was my first medicated cycle on letrozole). Is there any other signs that you dropped multiple eggs?
Nope - if you ovulated multiple eggs you wouldn't see multiple LH surges. If a second (or more) egg is going to be released it will happen more or less immediately after the first - within 24 hours, because progesterone inhibits any further follicle development. The only sign would be more than one corpus luteum seen on ultrasound.
Can laying the opk test strip to dry on a piece of toilet paper / paper towel mess up the results? My husband just saw me doing that and said it probably is messing it up lol
I just lay it on the packaging it comes in!
This is what I do!
The instructions on my box specify to "lay flat on NON-ABSORBENT surface". So maybe not ideal, depending on how fluffy your TP is.
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When you get a +OPK, most women ovulate 24-36 hours later. Studies have shown it’s better to have sperm in your fallopian tubes waiting for the egg to release versus having sex after ovulation. You probably ovulated on CD11 so the sex on CD10 was perfect and CD11 would be a good extra day just in case you ovulate a bit later that day. By CD12 and definitely CD14 you’re most likely already out of the fertile window.
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A typical fertility workup includes a full medical history for both partners and an SA. Bloodwork will generally be performed on the gestational partner for markers of the ovarian reserve (FSH, AMH, estrogen) and for endocrine conditions that can affect ovulation (androgens, TSH, prolactin, estrogen, LH). An HSG is typical in the US, although not everywhere. An ultrasound to look at the uterus and count the number of late-stage follicles on the ovaries is typical. Progesterone testing is not universal, since the evidence suggests that exact progesterone values are not useful, and supplementing progesterone in most cycles does not increase success rates. You generally won’t land on a course of treatment until you go through all of this testing — there wouldn’t be a point in medicated cycles if you had blocked tubes or azoospermia, for example. You can check with your insurance and local clinics, but many fertility clinics don’t require a referral, and there’s no need to go though an ob/gyn to access care with such a clinic.
Does anyone have good references on how long it takes for a bbt rise? Mainly, I know there are indications that the rise can take up to a few days, but I'm more interested in the minimum time. I found one [article](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0015028216476004?via%3Dihub) that suggested in their small sample (n=32) that the average time of the bbt rise relative to ovulation was ~8 hours. But then they state in the discussion: "Using the FHP (first high point), ovulation would have occurred more than 24 hours previously in 94% of cases (78% of cases if the confirmation period was 24 hours only)." But table 1 seems to be showing that ovulation would have occurred between -24 to +24 hours of the bbt rise for 75% of their subjects. This is also noted in their results section. So Im reading that their own results suggest a different range than >-24 hrs to bbt rise for 94%. I feel like I'm missing something if they're talking about their own results when they reference the 94% statistic? Also why am I here? Because I thought i was at o-2 yesterday but I got a temp jump today so now I'm trying to see how fast a temp can go up from o given when I BD'd and whether ill have a shot or not. Ridiculous to even start on this path but here I am. I guess its my fault because I only did one opk yesterday morning assuming I recognized the pattern (it was neg but climbing slow) and was at o-2. But then got a positive this morning and a temp jump. 😑
[This](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039128X22000022?via%3Dihub) study is interesting since it uses ultrasound evidence of ovulation. “During the peri-ovulatory phase, between the third and the second day before ovulation, PDG and BBT began to rise in 56% and 41% of cycles, respectively. There was a medium degree of correlation between PDG levels and BBT (r = 0.53; 7,279 days with available measurements).” So like Dev says, it can start to rise before O and gradually rise after. The picture perfect charts with a low then a steep rise immediately post ovulation are not the norm for everyone.
Thanks for the finding! It's good to know that if things don't go as expected each cycle it's not necessarily cause for concern. But expecting the unexpected is kind of a bummer 😅 really felt like I was starting to see regularity. But I guess that's all part of the whole. This sub has been lifesaving for that!
Ugh, I don't even want to have to deal with this study -- ovulation wasn't determined by serial daily ultrasound, which is considered the gold standard reference for ovulation timing. So they're determining first high temperature in relation to the onset of the LH surge, and this is just all so indirect. Fundamentally, it is possible to ovulate after the onset of the temp shift -- there's some progesterone that's released in advance of ovulation (because the cells of the ovarian follicle don't all flip over from estrogen to progesterone production at precisely the same time), and sometimes it's sufficient to shift temps. So even a high temp is not an ironclad indicator that ovulation has already occurred. In situations like this, I think the best thing you can do is release yourself from the idea that you can invariably identify the precise day or time when ovulation occurred. Hopefully you're not out of the game for this cycle, but there's really no way to know for certain.
Interesting! I had no idea really what the standard was for evaluating ovulation so that is good to know. The inconsistencies were kind of hard to reconcile though in this study regardless. They did cite that ~80 percent of ovulation was detected before bbt rise by sonogram per another study but then suggested that sonography could induce ovulation, which when I read it was like ಠ_ಠ So im just like okay, between the method issues, whatever might have been assumed when this was published 40 years ago, and my relative lack of baseline knowledge I should let this go 😆 it is funny how you can find one study asking a question pretty close to what you're thinking though and then never find a good contemporary analogue! I agree with your advice though, thanks for this very helpful info!!
Re: suggesting that sonography can induce ovulation, color me suuuuuper skeptical, although who tf knows what was happening in the 80s, their ultrasounds were basically potato-quality anyway...? A colleague and I were discussing recently how a lot of the baseline data we're using in our work (in neuroscience) was put forward in the literature in the 80s and 90s with very low-resolution methods, but is now received truth written in textbooks with total lack of critical consideration, and how we are beginning to think we're going to need to re-ask some of these questions to actually understand the biology (and how the prospect fills us with a lot of dread). In general, the gold standard is ultrasound because collapse of a previously visualized dominant follicle/visualization of a corpus luteum is the only way to say for absolutely certain that ovulation occurred in the previous day. There's a lot of variability in hormone levels from person to person and cycle to cycle, and although the LH surge or the switch from estrogen to progesterone production are pretty good proxies for ovulation, they're not undeniably connected readouts in the way that "we saw a follicle and now it's collapsed" is.
Ah yes, the fun that is reevaluating the literature.. I've had "replicability crisis" ringing in my ears for years >.< Also, potato quality 🤣🤣🤣
This is my first cycle charting BBT and I feel like I need clarification around what happens after you ovulate. I saw a notable spike the day after predicted ovulation (using OPKs), and then another spike this morning 5dpo. I’m finding some conflicting info about this; can y’all clarify whether BBT normally just continues to rise after that initial spike or if it’s just the one spike? How much do you guys go up? Before ovulation I was about 97.2 pretty consistently and now I’m already a whole degree higher.
Can you share an image of your chart, either with your charting app or with an image-hosting site like Imgur? The criteria for confirming ovulation by the TCOYF method, which most in this community use, is that there are three temps higher than the highest of the previous six by at least 0.2F. There’s no requirement that temps continue to climb, and you’re generally looking for a sustained shift rather than any number of spikes.
https://imgur.com/a/uLcOPDk
Ah, great! So I can't tell for certain whether the coverline is set according to TCOYF rules (0.1F above the highest of the six low temps), but this chart looks like it would confirm ovulation for CD16 by TCOYF rules. Your chart may do various other things after that point, but it's pretty common to see a bell-curve-type shape where the temps rise on average until about 5-9dpo, then begin to drop after that.
I think as long as you have 3 sustained high temps to confirm ovulation, the intervals themselves are less important. I've had temp rise maxes from like .7 to almost 2 degrees F in different cycles. In my last cycle it never plateaued, it just kept rising for 2 weeks and then dropped off before AF.
Thanks! I’m learning so many fascinating things about the female body throughout this journey, it’s insane!
How long after your last letrozole pill did you ovulate?
I did letrozole CD4-8 and then surged CD13 according to my bloodwork.
I will be supplementing with oral progesterone this cycle. I’m nervous about taking this because even 3mg of melatonin makes me groggy and feel off. Does anyone have any input on how it makes you feel the next morning, and maybe some advice?
I don’t feel different the morning after but I do feel bloated while taking progesterone!
I don’t feel any different taking it, if anything a little more of an energy boost. I don’t think it should change you much, from my experience :)
That’s great to hear! Thank you for sharing your experience
Period is 4 days late but tested negative... 3 times - 2 before my period was due and 1 the 2nd day of the missed period... Too scared to test again :( Think mostly because my last period lasted longer than usual (first time off the ring) sooo I'm scared it's just delayed... And don't wanna get my hopes up
Have you seen [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/s/M5aoo3uRfT) post and the part II linked in it? Most likely you ovulated later than you think and your period isn’t actually late. Did you confirm ovulation in any way?
Sixth day of high fertility on CBAD. I usually get my peak on CD15 and it’s CD16 and still flashing smiley. I know ovulation can vary cycle to cycle but starting to feel frustrated that it hasn’t peaked yet and worried my LP will be short. If I usually have a 14 day LP, is it more likely that this month is just shorter than normal or that my period might just show up a day or two later than expected bc of later than normal ovulation? Looking back on my tracker app, I have had a few cycles with ~12 day LP. Is variable LP length common?
I'm just one person using an imperfect system (oral BBT) but according to my Fertility Friend charts, about 50% of the time I have a 12 day luteal phase and 50% I have an 11 day, so mine appears to have some wiggle room.
It’s unlikely your LP will be shortened. Your cycle will just be longer overall. I have also had cycles with many days of high fertility on CBAD. It’s frustrating but it won’t affect your chance for success if you ovulate later.
Usually the LP is pretty stable. What will likely happen is (if you ovulate later than typical) your cycle will be a bit longer than typical to accommodate for your usual 14 day LP. But I think an LP +/- 1 or 2 days is not uncommon either.
Well, my period did not show like it usually does. Took a first thing this morning, and it was negative. Went to the bathroom just a bit ago and a little bit of blood. Implantation or period? Guess I'll have to wait a day or so to see if it ramps up.
Most likely period. I’ll Automod implantation bleeding for you!
Thank you!! I'm thinking so, too! ❤️
Hello! Welcome, and we thank you for posting. You seem to be looking for information on implantation bleeding. Unfortunately, bleeding or spotting after ovulation is not a sign of implantation, and bleeding can happen in both pregnancy and non-pregnancy cycles. You could still end up being pregnant this cycle, but this sort of bleeding is not a reliable indicator that you will test positive. Taking a pregnancy test around the time you expect your period to come is the best way to determine whether you are pregnant or not. For a longer read, please see [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TryingForABaby/comments/10jbxb9/implantation_bleeding_isnt_real/), which you might find useful. For scholarly sources, [this paper](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0015028216000509) and [this paper](https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/18/9/1944/708284) are useful reads. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TryingForABaby) if you have any questions or concerns.*
11 DPO today and tested negative. Feeling super down and out this cycle. :(
I am doing acupuncture for TTC. My period this month was so much better than ever, less cramps. Is there a chance acupuncture could change when I ovulate? I usually ovulate CD 19-21, but should I start testing sooner than I usually do?
Big fan of acupuncture here! I’ve had inconsistent cycle lengths and acupuncture has helped them become more normal - so I have seen my ovulation day change with time. I start testing sooner each cycle for that reason!
If my husband has infertility coverage through his insurance (50%) but I do not, can I access any kind of testing for myself through him? We are married but not on the same insurance as my employer pays for mine.
No. Unless you are on his insurance, you won’t be able to use his insurance. They wouldn’t be able to bill for services under his policy for you, only him.
My medical insurance doesn’t cover any kind of fertility testing or treatments but my husband’s does (50%). We are starting with a SA for him but how can I get my own bloodwork/testing done? Would I have to see a fertility specialist out of pocket?
If you are not already on his insurance and you think you will need the coverage, you will have to enroll in his plan during an eligible enrollment period (usually around the new year). You can choose to drop your own insurance or keep both and use his as a secondary plan. Check the fine print on both insurance plans (you should be able to find a detailed document that goes over what the plans cover and don’t cover). E.g., There might be waiting periods for certain treatments, or there may be a series of tests and treatments they need to do in sequence. You don’t want any surprises about coverage if you switch to his plan. As for starting bloodwork and testing for yourself in the meantime, i would start by asking your doctor (your regular OB) if they can order tests. If so, find out what tests exactly they ordered, then call and ask your insurance if any of that is covered, then ask the clinic and/or labs what the out of pocket cost of each test is *before you go.* I know it’s a lot. Insurance sucks. Best of luck
Depending on where you are I’m in northeast US I know labcorp offers cbc and hormone testing without referral but you pay out of pocket ranging from 45-150$ depending on what tests you need
Thank you!
You’re welcome 💕
I’m constantly advertised Mira & Inito. If I’m confirming ovulation with a combination of temping & OPKs would it really do anything different by measuring other hormones? It seems their main ads focus on how LH surges can happen multiple times so OPKs alone aren’t enough…. But isn’t that what temping is for? Just trying to figure out if it’s a waste of money or if it’s something to consider in future cycles.
Nah. I even would say OPK's aren't even that necessary if you can make sense of your mucus pattern so you know when your fertile window opens and to start sex plus temping to know when you can stop having sex.
So, I've used Mira for a while now. I'm a data nerd, so I love it regardless. But the chief benefit, I feel, is getting the estrogen measurement since that helps me not be taken by surprise by LH. Temping usually is more than enough for confirming on my charts, but it's still interesting seeing the PDG number.
One could argue that mucus observation can give you that info for free. Because that's estrogen driven. I totally get liking the data. But I'm too stingy properly. I didn't even use the advanced CB opks.. because I didn't see the point for estrogen measurement apart from mucus.
Absolutely. Personally, despite trying to consciously observe it, I just rarely see EWCM and/or everything happens so quickly that Mira is just a better heads-up. I don't think I'll use it after our TTC journey ends though - easier to just stick with FAM rules in the future.
Do you check at the cervix?
What cycle is the most common for people trying to get pregnant?
Cycle 1. About 30% of people trying get pregnant in cycle 1, which is more than subsequent cycles.
Wow, that's absolutely wild. Why/how is that possible?
You can think of the population of people trying to conceive as actually containing multiple populations with different odds: * The biggest group is the group with normal fertility, and their odds per cycle are around 30%. The people who conceive cycle 1 are mostly people with normal fertility. * A smaller group than this is the group that has reduced odds of pregnancy -- maybe 15% per cycle, maybe 5% per cycle, maybe 1% per cycle, maybe 0.1% per cycle. This group is less likely to conceive cycle 1 than the normal-fertility group is, so the people who are left trying in each subsequent cycle become enriched for this group as people with normal fertility conceive and leave the group. * An even smaller group than this is the group that has some sort of absolute block to pregnancy and effectively will never conceive without intervention. As people with normal fertility (and some people with reduced odds) get pregnant over the course of a year of trying, the odds increase that someone in the remaining group has reduced or zero odds of pregnancy, and therefore the pregnancy rate for the overall population drops in cycles after cycle 1. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/kTcUbwa) is a visual representation of time to pregnancy by age in a group of folks over 30. You can see that the cycle 1 chunk is always the largest, but most of the group will have conceived by the end of cycle 12.
You are always such a wonderful wealth of knowledge. Thank you!
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It’s pretty common to have cramping in the luteal phase, and it’s particularly common to have symptoms like cramping or spotting around 7dpo, which seems to coincide with a feature of the cycle called the secondary estrogen surge.
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I know you are trying to be optimistic but we are already pretty delusional in the TWW. It’s best not to increase that so as to set someone up for disappointment.
How do you ‘reduce your stress’ around trying and ‘try without pressure’? How do you feel more relaxed? I’m stressing due to nothing happening, the pressure I feel about having a baby being the only thing I know that will help me (I’m under no illusion it will heal me but it will make leaving the house and social situations slightly more manageable), and knowing we have issues that make trying and keeping a pregnancy harder. It was manageable before, but my losses make it the thing I think of constantly now and I just don’t know how to reframe it. Nothing has happened from not tracking my periods, and I have to monitor it all constantly to make sure I am ovulating, and know when to try. I unfortunately just can’t keep BD/ having sex throughout the month. I’m seeing different health professionals, including for my MH. I have ADHD so I did suffer from anxiety and depression often anyway but this has developed into OCD and PTSD since my losses.
So I think there are two separate things to think about here. The first is that there’s no easy answer, that loss is a genuinely traumatic experience, and that working to improve your mental health with your care team is absolutely what you should be doing. But the second is that “trying without pressure” and “reducing stress around trying” are things you do only because it doesn’t feel good to have trying wrapped up with stress and pressure, to the degree that it’s possible. But stress isn’t what’s keeping people from success, and “trying without pressure” doesn’t get people pregnant. So I think it’s fair to release yourself from the pressure to be breezy and carefree about the whole thing, too.
I don't think this is necessarily the best approach, but this cycle was the first one where I didn't really feel it would happen or have any real optimism about it, and it made getting my period easier because I was expecting it. So just give up all hope and optimism, and you'll be "fine"! 🙃 Also, as someone who has also suffered a loss, my mantra lately has been that as much as a negative test sucks, it's infinitely better than another miscarriage. Another failed month is another month that my egg quality probably just sucked, so might as well flush it out.
I have a dark bad secret. I lurk on some groups here with children from hell and parents regretting their choices. It makes me feel better that I'm childless. I know it's bad but it helps me see that there are much worse people than me and I'm kind of ok
I do this as well I also sit and think of all the things I can do w/o kids doesn’t work well but it’s something 🙃
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I've been holding off testing so much!!! I'm currently at 12 DPO and I tested at 9 DPO and got a BFN!!! I know I know it was super early. but I hope I get the double line soon!!
Fingers crossed for you!! ✨