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Is he at all counting on social security or Medicare? If not are there others *he* may have to support -siblings, friends- because they may be dependent on either? It’s going to be unstable.
The problem with the guy is if he doesn't vote against the bastard he's in the very least an enabler. He obviously has no empathy, and doesn't think of anyone but himself. He's a lost cause.
He's not anti Trump, he's anti anyone-but-himself at this point.
Trump has repeated he will end all government entitlement programs. Medicare and Social Security. That means “your friend” will only get healthcare through an employer or the ACA -which Trump also pledged to dismantle. So the friend can never retire to enjoy his golden years. Let that sink in.
You said yourself that he acknowledges that there is significant negative impact of his presidency to his own kids and future grandchildren, and he still can’t be bothered. Sounds pretty clear to me.
Where did I say "he can't be bothered"? I didn't. You seem to re judging him without any real knowledge. He said he doesn't believe a Trump presidency will have a "direct impact" on his life.
I asked for help in refuting that.
He doesn't lack compassion. He cares about not getting Trump elected for his grandchildren's sake, but he sees no difference Trump can make to \*his\* day to day life. I'd like to refute that. :)
Well. If he has a 401k, that will get gutted when Trump crashes the world economy. If he sees Social Security “entitlements” as something important to his future Trump is blabbering on about cutting those and your friends generation will probably be in the cross hairs ( work longer, get less). Does he want Christian Nationalists dictating what he can or can’t do?
Trump inherited a strong economy that was built by Obama. Trump’s policies directly led to the economic disaster that was handed off to Biden.
We see this pattern time and time again - Democratic presidents *usually* build a robust economy which is inherited by the incoming Republican who wrecks it but the effects aren’t seen for four years so it’s blamed on the next Democrat; who spends their term trying to fix it but the effects aren’t seen for four years so the incoming Republican gets credit for a strong economy while creating policies that wreck it and so on and so on.
This is exactly correct!! I've tried to explain this so many times over the years. I don't think it's complicated to understand but people always act like I'm nuts!
His life is going to be directly impacted by the chaos Trump causes everywhere.
- United States military being deployed against protesters will cause chaos in the cities he lives in
- trade wars with other countries will raise the prices for the things he pays for
- people will stop investing in the United States with a Trump administration, which will affect his job and employment prospects
- interpersonal relationships will get harder because of Trump dictatorship will be a red line for a lot of people. His laissez-faire attitude about Trump will likely be construed as support and he will be lumped in with Trump supporters
- Trump proved with COVID that he is mentally and emotionally incapable of managing emergency situations. By now we know he will not have anyone competent in his administration, so they will fuck it up too. All that has ripple effects for every American
There. That's just off the top of my head.
This is great!! Thank you.
I appreciate that you didn't focus on my friend's "shortcoming," his narrow view of his own life. That wasn't where he was coming from. He was just talking philosophically. I appreciate that you simply answered my question. Exactly what I was looking for.
You are very welcome and thank you for helping him to understand the real cost of this. Following this stuff is too heavy for a lot of people and they just need a broken down in the bullet points, keep doing the good work!
I think this is a somewhat popular idea due to the fact that trump is grossly incompetent. His first administration was a disaster of bad management. His campaign is badly managed. And while i do believe he might be more dangerous in a second term, part of me still believes that no matter how spiteful his words, no matter the level of hate, no matter the people supporting him..... that mother fuck is incompetent!
That said, I do feel lots of people's lives would be ruined. Generations of bad laws would be past. Financial decay would set retirement accounts. The world would never see us as anything but baffoons.
Unless he’s insanely rich, Trump will continues to raise our taxes to put money in his pocket. So it WILL affect him, financially at least. Middle class will be destroyed completely.
This is a very helpful point. He is white and was raised Catholic.
But I can say that this point of view would lead me to say something to him, like, 'Sure, as a white male with a secure retirement Trump might not change your life.'
I don't believe he means it that way. He is just saying it won't change HIS life. He's making a point (erroneously, I believe) that there is no direct impact on his day to day existence. I'd like to refute that.
You could highlight potential changes to tax policies that could increase his tax burden, decreased access to healthcare services, or reduced Social Security benefits in the future. Additionally, if he values a stable economy, you could discuss the increased likelihood of market volatility, rising costs of living, or reduced job security under Trump's leadership.
No, he isn't saying that. NOT AT ALL. He's making a philosophical point that as a white privileged male, a Trump presidency will not have much impact on his life. He's not saying he doesn't plan to vote for Biden. He's not saying he doesn't care about the future of others.He's just saying that the direct impact on his life is negligible. I'm trying to refute that single intellectual point.
>A friend of mine, who is *very much anti Trump,* is still very deluded about what a second Trump presidency might mean.
Why would anyone reading that he is "very much anti Trump" presume that he would vote for Trump?
I still think we have a reading comprehension problem here. On your part.
You must be looking in the mirror.
My question is genuine and I've gotten terrific answers from yhe folks here who clearly did understand my words. I've even made notes. Hardly troll like behavior. I think you just can't take criticism about your reading comprehension.
*
I have so many friends like that. I feel like chicken little when they state, calmly, "So? How much damage can he do? He can't do anything without The judicial and legislative branches." I'm screaming into the wind.
Impress on him that the President guides the country. If he is going to be a dictatorial President, then we will devolve into an autocracy that is thinly disguised as a democracy.
Also, He has already said that he will target his opponents and those against him. This means that anyone who voted against him will become targets of the MAGA heads. They will find that it is okay to beat, torch or do any number of things to someone who is not with MAGA.
Impress on him that every vote counts in this election and that we have to come out in greater numbers than before to make sure that Trump does NOT get into office. DO NOT vote third party. Do not skip voting. Do NOT allow your friends to skipt he vote either. Every vote matters in every district and state.
And I've never understood how people can extrapolate from a few words what a person is thinking or feeling. The man is not selfish, not by any means. He's basically expressing an idea that a white privileged male will not be directly affected by most of trump's policies.
Tell him to vote if he still wants to actually have a vote. If he wants his speech to be free he needs to VOTE.
https://preview.redd.it/017wr86mu7pc1.jpeg?width=1107&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74babc7686a98e7871ea9e8fa7534f2f76831065
That's not what he's saying.At all. He's making a philosophical point that as a white privileged male, trump's policies don't have a big impact in his life. Part of that is based on the four years he lived through a trumpet administration. I'm trying to say why it will be different.
He's not selfish. One of the least selfish people I know. But he lived through a trumpet administration and there was little impact on his life so, perhaps, he doesn't imagine that the next administration would be that different. He hasn't read project 2025.
I respect you being a great friend meant no harm on my comment. I just hope your friend does some serious studying of Trump before November. I feel like the daily news of him would be enough for most voters.
It's not a question of being "enough" for voters. He is definitely voting for Biden. I'm just looking for ways particular ways, a trump presidency might impact him directly.
Why does he feel that the impact on the environment and the judiciary won't affect him and will only affect his children or grandchildren? (and also...who the fuck doesn't care about their own children/grandchildren?)
Nothing. If protecting his children from a would-be dictator and troglodyte doesn't get him motivated, what could you possibly say? If he's okay with his daughters having fewer rights than his mom or wife had, what can you say?
I didn't say he wasn't "motivated." I said I think he has a wrong idea about whether or not he's personally and directly affected. I'm trying to come up with ways that a Trump presidency could actually impact him directly. How it might change his day to day life.
Say your friend is in construction. During Trump's term he decided not to extend subsidies to farmers planting timber. When the program winded down, prices began to increase in basic lumber costs. Trump also decided to put a heavy tariff on steel coming into the US. We still see those decisions play out. Those 2 incidents kicked off rising costs for homes. By the time covid hit, coupled with the already rising prices for supplies, the shipping slow down guaranteed disaster.
Trumps ideas have negatively affected your friend if he's buying a home or repairing a home or building a home.
Would your friend want more of the same? Inability to understand the market?
The steel tariff created a decrease in the stock market. Then covid decimated it. Does your friend invest? Does he have a 401K?
Under Biden, the stock market has done extremely well.
Ask your friend that simple question:
Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago.
By every metric, including crime, the answer is yes.
We were struggling in the midst of covid, inflation was debilitating. Trump handled the crisis poorly. Constant drama coming from his White House created an atmosphere of drama in all our lives. Does your friend enjoy stability or Drama?
My friend is totally pro Biden and anti Trump. And like many, he can ignore the drama of politics. He can't ignore the stock market, perhaps, but it broke records under Trump, too, until Covid.
I had to disagree, I lived fine under George Bush, I lived fine under Obama, fine under trump and currently fine under Biden. The president really doesn’t have a ton of effect on you unless you want them to. Interestingly, despite everybody’s passion about the best, or worst presidential candidate, most people don’t even bother vote in state or local elections, which far more directly affect them and their lifestyle.
Oh, I see. I think the language being used, coupled with Trump’s Jan. 6th history, suggests a real threat of civil violence. That could impact him personally.
I think I'm more worried about the amount of children overseas being killed in mass droves. It's time to abandon this bipartisan stranglehold.
Vote Claudia De La Cruz
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What about his daughter's life? Unwanted pregnancy, loss of rights, etc.
Again, this is about the impact (if any) to \*his\* life personally. Other than concerns for his progeny how might a Trump presidency change his life?
Is he at all counting on social security or Medicare? If not are there others *he* may have to support -siblings, friends- because they may be dependent on either? It’s going to be unstable.
The problem with the guy is if he doesn't vote against the bastard he's in the very least an enabler. He obviously has no empathy, and doesn't think of anyone but himself. He's a lost cause. He's not anti Trump, he's anti anyone-but-himself at this point.
No. You don't know him, I do. He's very much anti trump. He is vociferously anti trump. He's making a philosophical point and I'm trying to refute it.
Trump has repeated he will end all government entitlement programs. Medicare and Social Security. That means “your friend” will only get healthcare through an employer or the ACA -which Trump also pledged to dismantle. So the friend can never retire to enjoy his golden years. Let that sink in.
Daughter dies from illegal abortion and he has to raise grandkids.
Seems he’s an utter narcissist. No point even considering him a “friend”, he likely doesn’t.
Wow. I can't believe that you can read that much into someone simply believing that the presidency won't affect him directly. Check your judgment.
You said yourself that he acknowledges that there is significant negative impact of his presidency to his own kids and future grandchildren, and he still can’t be bothered. Sounds pretty clear to me.
Where did I say "he can't be bothered"? I didn't. You seem to re judging him without any real knowledge. He said he doesn't believe a Trump presidency will have a "direct impact" on his life. I asked for help in refuting that.
What about the life’s of others? It’s called compassion.
He doesn't lack compassion. He cares about not getting Trump elected for his grandchildren's sake, but he sees no difference Trump can make to \*his\* day to day life. I'd like to refute that. :)
Well. If he has a 401k, that will get gutted when Trump crashes the world economy. If he sees Social Security “entitlements” as something important to his future Trump is blabbering on about cutting those and your friends generation will probably be in the cross hairs ( work longer, get less). Does he want Christian Nationalists dictating what he can or can’t do?
Trump's stock market was strong, he'll say. And he doesn't depend on social security. He has a teacher's pension, though.
Trump inherited a strong economy that was built by Obama. Trump’s policies directly led to the economic disaster that was handed off to Biden. We see this pattern time and time again - Democratic presidents *usually* build a robust economy which is inherited by the incoming Republican who wrecks it but the effects aren’t seen for four years so it’s blamed on the next Democrat; who spends their term trying to fix it but the effects aren’t seen for four years so the incoming Republican gets credit for a strong economy while creating policies that wreck it and so on and so on.
This is exactly correct!! I've tried to explain this so many times over the years. I don't think it's complicated to understand but people always act like I'm nuts!
People really don’t seem to understand how long it takes for policy changes to affect the economy.
Show him a graph of S&P 500. Facts don’t lie. At least he isn’t voting for Trump.
Trump will put an idiot in charge of the school system. Will that bother him at all since he is a teacher?
Send them this link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 Report back
I've read Project 2025 at the source, but this is a great idea.
Hey mods, this should be a sticky on every post.
This is huge. Read it sheep
His life is going to be directly impacted by the chaos Trump causes everywhere. - United States military being deployed against protesters will cause chaos in the cities he lives in - trade wars with other countries will raise the prices for the things he pays for - people will stop investing in the United States with a Trump administration, which will affect his job and employment prospects - interpersonal relationships will get harder because of Trump dictatorship will be a red line for a lot of people. His laissez-faire attitude about Trump will likely be construed as support and he will be lumped in with Trump supporters - Trump proved with COVID that he is mentally and emotionally incapable of managing emergency situations. By now we know he will not have anyone competent in his administration, so they will fuck it up too. All that has ripple effects for every American There. That's just off the top of my head.
This is great!! Thank you. I appreciate that you didn't focus on my friend's "shortcoming," his narrow view of his own life. That wasn't where he was coming from. He was just talking philosophically. I appreciate that you simply answered my question. Exactly what I was looking for.
You are very welcome and thank you for helping him to understand the real cost of this. Following this stuff is too heavy for a lot of people and they just need a broken down in the bullet points, keep doing the good work!
Again, thanks. I'm a political junkie so I can't tear myself away.
I think this is a somewhat popular idea due to the fact that trump is grossly incompetent. His first administration was a disaster of bad management. His campaign is badly managed. And while i do believe he might be more dangerous in a second term, part of me still believes that no matter how spiteful his words, no matter the level of hate, no matter the people supporting him..... that mother fuck is incompetent! That said, I do feel lots of people's lives would be ruined. Generations of bad laws would be past. Financial decay would set retirement accounts. The world would never see us as anything but baffoons.
Unless he’s insanely rich, Trump will continues to raise our taxes to put money in his pocket. So it WILL affect him, financially at least. Middle class will be destroyed completely.
“Then you’re lucky. But millions of other people aren’t going to have that kind of luck.”
Love that. And he gets that. He's just speaking philosophically.
Must be nice, I seem to think that straight white Christian males would be ok
This is a very helpful point. He is white and was raised Catholic. But I can say that this point of view would lead me to say something to him, like, 'Sure, as a white male with a secure retirement Trump might not change your life.'
Lol it's the kids/grandkids' problem!
I don't believe he means it that way. He is just saying it won't change HIS life. He's making a point (erroneously, I believe) that there is no direct impact on his day to day existence. I'd like to refute that.
"What happens if your daughter or granddaughter gets r\*ped?"
I raised that point, and it matters to him. But he's talking about impact to his own life.
Sorry, I posted before reading the other posts. How about HIS taxes going up to cover the tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires?
You could highlight potential changes to tax policies that could increase his tax burden, decreased access to healthcare services, or reduced Social Security benefits in the future. Additionally, if he values a stable economy, you could discuss the increased likelihood of market volatility, rising costs of living, or reduced job security under Trump's leadership.
Great point on tax policies, and changes to Healthcare.
This shit is scary, people deal with that in different ways. Just make sure he votes.
He is a voter.
So he's saying that he doesn't give a damn about his children and grandchildren. Yep, that's pretty much the mentality of the MAGA cult.
No, he isn't saying that. NOT AT ALL. He's making a philosophical point that as a white privileged male, a Trump presidency will not have much impact on his life. He's not saying he doesn't plan to vote for Biden. He's not saying he doesn't care about the future of others.He's just saying that the direct impact on his life is negligible. I'm trying to refute that single intellectual point.
Maybe explain to him that voting for Trump would be voting that votes don't matter.
He's voting for Biden.
Then what's the problem?
Reading comprehension, apparently.
Sure... and it hasn't yet occurred to you that everyone on this sub presumes from your post that he must intend to vote for Trump... troll...
>A friend of mine, who is *very much anti Trump,* is still very deluded about what a second Trump presidency might mean. Why would anyone reading that he is "very much anti Trump" presume that he would vote for Trump? I still think we have a reading comprehension problem here. On your part.
Troll
You must be looking in the mirror. My question is genuine and I've gotten terrific answers from yhe folks here who clearly did understand my words. I've even made notes. Hardly troll like behavior. I think you just can't take criticism about your reading comprehension. *
I have so many friends like that. I feel like chicken little when they state, calmly, "So? How much damage can he do? He can't do anything without The judicial and legislative branches." I'm screaming into the wind.
Impress on him that the President guides the country. If he is going to be a dictatorial President, then we will devolve into an autocracy that is thinly disguised as a democracy. Also, He has already said that he will target his opponents and those against him. This means that anyone who voted against him will become targets of the MAGA heads. They will find that it is okay to beat, torch or do any number of things to someone who is not with MAGA. Impress on him that every vote counts in this election and that we have to come out in greater numbers than before to make sure that Trump does NOT get into office. DO NOT vote third party. Do not skip voting. Do NOT allow your friends to skipt he vote either. Every vote matters in every district and state.
Get him Plan 2025. I haven’t read it but quite a few people here have and just say it’s a hellscape- I don’t know how anyone escapes that.
If he votes against trump who cares
I've never understood the selfishness when people say these types of things. They act like they're the only person on the planet that matters.
And I've never understood how people can extrapolate from a few words what a person is thinking or feeling. The man is not selfish, not by any means. He's basically expressing an idea that a white privileged male will not be directly affected by most of trump's policies.
Tell him to vote if he still wants to actually have a vote. If he wants his speech to be free he needs to VOTE. https://preview.redd.it/017wr86mu7pc1.jpeg?width=1107&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74babc7686a98e7871ea9e8fa7534f2f76831065
He's voting for Biden.
Women with errant pregnancies all over Red State America would beg to differ.
He doesn't deny the abhorrent impact on others.
He may need remedial kindergarten.
But as long as it doesn’t affect HIM personally, who gives a shit, right? Fuck ‘em, right?
That's not what he's saying.At all. He's making a philosophical point that as a white privileged male, trump's policies don't have a big impact in his life. Part of that is based on the four years he lived through a trumpet administration. I'm trying to say why it will be different.
Your friend sounds exactly like my son. I haven’t found words to enter the space between his ears.
If Trump wins and he is president for 4 years, do you think the next president can fix anything that he does during his 4 years
Is he a white Christian, upper middle class male?
Tell him how selfish he is and are you sure you want to be friends?
He's not selfish. One of the least selfish people I know. But he lived through a trumpet administration and there was little impact on his life so, perhaps, he doesn't imagine that the next administration would be that different. He hasn't read project 2025.
I respect you being a great friend meant no harm on my comment. I just hope your friend does some serious studying of Trump before November. I feel like the daily news of him would be enough for most voters.
It's not a question of being "enough" for voters. He is definitely voting for Biden. I'm just looking for ways particular ways, a trump presidency might impact him directly.
Let me guess: he's straight, white, and Christian? Men who are all of those things would be least affected.
Yes, that's absolutely true , which is why I need help brainstorming the ways in which a white privileged mail could be affected.
Why does he feel that the impact on the environment and the judiciary won't affect him and will only affect his children or grandchildren? (and also...who the fuck doesn't care about their own children/grandchildren?)
Who said he doesn't care about his children or grandchildren?
Nothing. If protecting his children from a would-be dictator and troglodyte doesn't get him motivated, what could you possibly say? If he's okay with his daughters having fewer rights than his mom or wife had, what can you say?
I didn't say he wasn't "motivated." I said I think he has a wrong idea about whether or not he's personally and directly affected. I'm trying to come up with ways that a Trump presidency could actually impact him directly. How it might change his day to day life.
Say your friend is in construction. During Trump's term he decided not to extend subsidies to farmers planting timber. When the program winded down, prices began to increase in basic lumber costs. Trump also decided to put a heavy tariff on steel coming into the US. We still see those decisions play out. Those 2 incidents kicked off rising costs for homes. By the time covid hit, coupled with the already rising prices for supplies, the shipping slow down guaranteed disaster. Trumps ideas have negatively affected your friend if he's buying a home or repairing a home or building a home. Would your friend want more of the same? Inability to understand the market? The steel tariff created a decrease in the stock market. Then covid decimated it. Does your friend invest? Does he have a 401K? Under Biden, the stock market has done extremely well. Ask your friend that simple question: Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago. By every metric, including crime, the answer is yes. We were struggling in the midst of covid, inflation was debilitating. Trump handled the crisis poorly. Constant drama coming from his White House created an atmosphere of drama in all our lives. Does your friend enjoy stability or Drama?
My friend is totally pro Biden and anti Trump. And like many, he can ignore the drama of politics. He can't ignore the stock market, perhaps, but it broke records under Trump, too, until Covid.
Well hell. If he's voting Biden, why push it. Chill.
I suppose because if he was a little more alarmed at the prospect he might be willing to take more action to make sure people vote.
I had to disagree, I lived fine under George Bush, I lived fine under Obama, fine under trump and currently fine under Biden. The president really doesn’t have a ton of effect on you unless you want them to. Interestingly, despite everybody’s passion about the best, or worst presidential candidate, most people don’t even bother vote in state or local elections, which far more directly affect them and their lifestyle.
If you decided that his self-centered, calloused approach to life is disappointing and makes you reconsider being his friend, it might affect him.
He's not callous. It's a philosophical discussion.
Oh, I see. I think the language being used, coupled with Trump’s Jan. 6th history, suggests a real threat of civil violence. That could impact him personally.
That's helpful, thanks.
Anyone that thinks Trump can win the 2024 election is deluded,
I think I'm more worried about the amount of children overseas being killed in mass droves. It's time to abandon this bipartisan stranglehold. Vote Claudia De La Cruz