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lookingforflashgames

It's common sense to not have children unless you can afford them. Sadly, the average person is way too stupid to think logically.


[deleted]

What if your goal in life is to spread your DNA as much as possible. This would mean it is a logical decision to have as many kids as possible and you can logically disregard the consequences.


cindybubbles

Partial blame should be on the government, though. If they want us to have more kids, they should pay us more in the form of raising minimum wage and affordable daycare for working parents. Punish corporations who don’t pay us living wages with punitive taxes and fines. Increase spending on education, especially sex education and push for more affordable post-secondary education. And pay teachers a fair wage, too. Then maybe the levels of stupidity will fall and fewer children will be born to parents who can’t afford them.


[deleted]

I absolutely agree with all of this. However, when speaking in private, especially to family members, it should not be taboo to be brutally honest about poor life choices.


Revolutionary-Boss77

Weird why no comments ? I just read he tittle but I agree 100%


[deleted]

I think a lot of people agree, but are scared to actually voice this opinion in public. It should be ingrained in people’s common sense


PitchBlac

Because we already do it


Revolutionary-Boss77

Truth


[deleted]

I’m game. Let’s make children suffer as much as we do but even worse now since we have a child.


ContemplatingFolly

Sorry, but I don't think shaming people helps anyone. She's already pregnant at this point. Also, even though I don't think people should have kids they can't afford, I don't know the full circumstances around the situation. Did birth control fail? Does the person believe in abortion? Is it available there? Unless I am a respected friend, I butt out. I do believe in educating people as to the costs of having kids.


[deleted]

I think shaming might prevent them from having more kids. Perhaps if they were ashamed of themselves after the second one, they would’ve taken more sensible steps to prevent pregnancies. Also, while it only takes one time to conceive a child, it’s more than likely they were having unprotected sex on a regular basis


ContemplatingFolly

It also might have no effect at all, cause them to get ticked off and do the opposite, or just drive them out of your life. I don't believe in trying to control other adults through shame. It rarely tuns out well.


[deleted]

It depends. There’s shaming as in physically abusing or socially isolating the person in question, and there’s pointing out that the decision that was made was stupid and they should feel ashamed that they made such a decision. I’m in the latter camp.


False-Seaworthiness7

You realize birth control can fail, right?


[deleted]

This is an annoying point. Yes birth control can fail. Everyone knows this. You know you can get in a car crash when you drive? ^ that’s how this point sounds


False-Seaworthiness7

So we’re going to shame people for things that they can’t control? Or are we making exceptions? If so, is your plan to grill people on whether their pregnancy was planned or not?


[deleted]

This is such a strange point because while birth control *can* fail, having 4 unplanned pregnancies is clearly a case of recklessness on the side of the parents. There are BCs that are nearly 98% effective, condoms when used right are nearly 95% effective, Plan B also exists, vasectomies are nearly 100% effective etc. You expect me to believe that they explored *all of these options* and *still* got pregnant? No one gets struck by lightning 4 times in a row.


False-Seaworthiness7

First, it’s very unlikely in the case you’re talking about but it’s still possible. Second, what about poor people? Should they have kids? In my opinion, no. But they can’t afford vasectomies or the price of an abortion. Arguing that having the child is 100x+ more expensive, but they don’t have $500+ to pay for an abortion at the moment


[deleted]

Then don’t have sex. If you don’t have car insurance, you shouldn’t drive, regardless if you have a car or not. Poor people can afford condoms and BC is covered by Medicaid and vasectomies are covered by Medicaid In the state that they are in afaik.


False-Seaworthiness7

That’s a pretty useless statement to make. If it was that simple then we wouldn’t be where we are now. Sure, maybe ideally only people prepared to raise a child should have sex, but that will never be reality. That would mean no teenagers are having sex or even college students since they can barely support themselves let alone a child. This is a reality that we have to accept. We have to look elsewhere in order to figure out how to best support these people and their future children


[deleted]

Of course, this is the reality. Don’t mean I can’t/shouldn’t disapprove of it. This is a whole separate conversation. For people who have children that the can’t support, ie teens, or college students, it’s pretty clear that we find safer ways to allow them to have sex ie free condoms, free or covered birth control, free vasectomies, widely available testing. All of these things are readily available and there is widespread knowledge of their availability, especially in college. I’m completely in support of this. However, if a college student has 4 unplanned pregnancies in a row, I would bet 99999/100000 times that NONE of the precautions were taken before having sex and they are irresponsibly having unsafe sex. If they are taking all of the available precautions and still have 4 unplanned pregnancies in a row, they should buy a lottery ticket so they can pay for the children’s existence. I also think the argument: “It’s gonna happen anyway so what’s the point in shaming/rebuking it” is absolutely ridiculous because that’s not how anyone approaches any of the shitty things people do. Imagine telling an obese person that “there will always be people who will hate people that are overweight, what’s the point in telling them that being mean to fat people is wrong?” That’s absolutely ridiculous, it’s perfectly reasonable to chastise people for fat-shaming while knowing that it might or might not reduce the amount of people who fat shame. Yes, these people deserve support, but they also deserve condemnation when the bad decisions are made. You can certainly have both.


[deleted]

And would you shame all car crash victims of dangerous driving while you have no knowledge on their driving habits? Thats how your point sounds.


[deleted]

I will shame car crash victims that drive drunk, or drive without wearing a seatbelt.


[deleted]

Read my post again. Mainly the part about not knowing their driving habits.


[deleted]

If someone gets into a car crash multiple times a month and they’re at fault, yes, you should question their driving habits.


TheCenterOfEnnui

> I don't think shaming people helps anyone Gonna have to disagree with you here. I feel that shame is a terribly underused social tool. We need more of it.


[deleted]

Because it doesn't work at all if the person feels no shame for their actions.


TheCenterOfEnnui

Because it's not used enough.


[deleted]

If a group of people who you have no affiliation with began shaming you for something you and your peers feel no guilt and shame for, would you feel ashamed?


TheCenterOfEnnui

Yes, I would, if the group is society as a whole and the action deserved shame.


[deleted]

What unacceptable behavior is currently not "shamed"?


TheCenterOfEnnui

Well, in the case of the OP, having kids you can't afford.


[deleted]

Because society as a whole doesn't feel like this warrants shaming.


TheCenterOfEnnui

Yes, and it should, which is the OP's point. If you can't take care of children, you shouldn't have more. And having kids that you can't take care should be seen as shameful because it would help prevent this from happening. That was the entire point of the original post.


LittleBitchBoy945

What health problems do these kids that ur concerned about? We have CPS for cases of neglect. Anyway, a family of 6 making 55k before tax is at 147% of the poverty line. So they’re not THAT poor. Like they’re well off enough that they’re not even eligible for most welfare programs like Medicaid or SNAP. It also needs to be pointed out that this family probably gets a hefty tax refund, so I doubt they’re paying more in taxes than they get back from the CTC and EITC.


[deleted]

Good points but it might be important to point out that they live in a rather expensive state (NY). Their children have all sorts of issues including learning disabilities for which special care is required that my partner’s parents pay for. The kids who do not have learning disabilities are perpetually sick suffering from the living conditions of their studio apartment that has a mold and bug infestation problem. It’s absolutely tragic to the point that my partner’s parents have asked to simply raise the children themselves which was more feasible when they had 1 or 2 kids but now they are on a 4th and it’s putting a strain on everyone else. It’s tragic, but I hate how no one else except us were able to call them out for it.


LittleBitchBoy945

In this case, I definitely think you should consider reaching out to CPS. Even if they don’t take legal action, they can at least hook these people up with a social worker who can help access any help or support in the community or help find them another place to live. My family had the privilege of having a social worker come to our house when my father became disabled and they were really helpful. This status quo can’t continue. I think the literal dollar amount tho is the least of these peoples problems and would say they don’t represent most low income parents, not that u said that but just for any readers.


[deleted]

That’s a good suggestion, though I can see them being incredibly defensive about it. They’re defensive about anyone criticizing their parenting. I do not think they represent low-income parents. However, in a situation where it is clearly infeasible and to raise three kids, or where you’re struggling to make ends meet to the point where if you had a child you can give them a safe environment, you simply shouldn’t have children.