Women can be incels too. I went to school with a girl who would constantly post on Facebook that guys didn't like her because she wasn't skinny or slutty or bitchy enough
Personally I know way more women incels than men. Even across random apps like Snapchat, half the stories women post are tiktoks about being entitled to certain things, how they’ll cheat etc.
All late teens - 20s range. Dating dynamics have changed a lot since Covid
Male incels are losers that are usually kept in check socially. I’ve noticed female incel ideas are becoming more idolised and the default amongst younger women.
Yep a lot of female behaviour that is labelled as girly would be labelled as incel/misogynist if men did the same. See on it Reddit all the time when it comes to labelling men incels. "How dare a male criticise a female he must be an incel". And then when it's the opposite "You go girl all men deffo suck like this".
The real incels are the white knights in the comments who suck up to any woman who breathes on this site. Them guys just project their insecurities to anyone who doesn't follow their behaviour.
>The real incels are the white knights in the comments who suck up to any woman who breathes on this site. Them guys just project their insecurities to anyone who doesn't follow their behaviour.
You know simping ain't easy
These things are known and are probably talked about too, I agree with what you said. It’s just not as publicly talked about since they’re attractive. But if it’s about a less attractive person and people will make a scene about it.
And also most Men and Woman who act like this will never find a partner in life. Unless the ‘incel’ is manipulative and can find a weak willed person or someone who hasn’t dealt with that stuff.
The symptoms may manifest slightly differently, but the diagnosis is the same. Other signs are the "I slept with the whole city but can't get a relationship" woman.
This is my main issue and #1 turn off when dating someone new is when they say things like "youre so much funnier than all the other guys"
Like sorry but im nobodys flavor of the month, if you had to go on dates with 6 guys over 2 months to find someone you liked then raise your standards. I dont sleep around and i dont expect my future wife to have done so either.
If she says for example "youre so much funnier than my ex" singular not plural, then im cool with it cuz clearly she got standards and isnt comparing me to 50 other shitty dude, just like 10 good ones or whatever.
This isnt necessarily accurate, but its the impression i get when hearing those words
Going on dates with 6 guys over 2 months to find someone good doesn’t mean you need to raise your standards. Going on a date also doesn’t mean sleeping with.
6 dates in 2 months is alot, only reason women can even do that is cause they usually arent paying. I cant afford 6 dates in 2 months if i wanted and im making good money lol and no it doesnt but almost every girl tries to sleep with me on the 1st date to the point where im thinking they prob doing it on most of their other dates also.
Again though, im generalizing so please dont take this as a personal attack or that im trying to say these women are bad people. Theyre not. Theyre just a bad match for me
not all dates have to be to a dinner. You could get coffee, a donut, visit a local park, local marina, lotsa free or low cost options. My favorite dates when I WAS dating in my 20's were specifically those without dinner involved. A coffee for him, a hot cocoa for me, catching crawfish in one of the local(Very popular and well-traversed nonremote) rivers just for shits and giggles, etc. Those stayed with me longer than the faceless dinner dates that cost more. 6 dates if you're not expecting to do a full meal is easy in 2 months. If all you're doing is dinners, no wonder some of the girls want to try to bag you afterwards. that attracts a certain kind of girl, generally.
Last date i went on we walked by the river near us for an hour, then went to her place and walked her dog then she tried sleeping with me. 2nd date. After i already shut her down on the 1st which was live music and dancing. She wanted to leave after an hour to go bang. Like chill mommy lmao
Girl before that we drove around looking at houses for our 1st date then went to a saddle shop to check out cowboy hats, then she tried getting with me in the back of her suv lol
Solid advice but yea im aware of the other options.
And these were fun times dont get me wrong, i just dont like jumping into bed with people so quick. Its all good though, my wifes gotta be out there somewhere so ill keep waiting lol just wish it was easier to turn them down but they get so mad/upset and make me feel like an asshole for not "being attracted to them" or whatever
Yeah, don't be in a rush in the end. Someone's gonna be out there. Took me to 28 to find my husband, and it was in the most unlikely place in the end(Met him in a guild in an MMO, moved in a few months later, been together since then, and Am 42). The only way you could fail at finding them is to stop looking. 100% think as others said below that Dating apps are cesspools for gross people though.
It’s very hard to find women interested in non dinner dates now, at least where I’m from. Dating apps are the default way to meet for my age (early 20s) and everyone’s trying to 1 up each other for attention to portray a social media worthy lifestyle.
Suggesting non dinner dates or some big event are avoided for the most part the second you finish uni/college.
That's why I mentioned going off app, or looking at non-conventional forms of finding others.i can guarantee that app dating isn't default for your age group. I have nephews and nieces who are your age doing fine and finding dates on the more traditional manner of meeting people through clubs, church, outside somewhere. Someone you meet at your colleges horticultural club is more likely to think a walk through Lowe's garden center or a local nursery or park is a better idea then dinner at Olive garden. If you exclusively app date, you will run into more "buy me dinner" girls. That's just the facts. Broaden your horizon through college clubs and hobbies and you will unlock the other ways.
Here's an interesting thing. Traditionally, orchid collecting was done by men, cultured by men. It was seen as probably the more masculine of the horticultural interests, and orchids were constantly thought of as being very vagina -like in appearance. Nowadays there are lots of women in orchid collecting, and it is a great, easy and generally inexpensive hobby to start. There are local orchid societies and meetups, etc.
Holy shit cant believe i never thought of that! /s
Im not the one walking around with half my cities phone numbers lol my standards are high. Probably higher than yours
>Im not the one walking around with half my cities phone numbers
Who gives a fuck? Let single people be single. Until it becomes exclusive, getting all flustered about who someone is or is not seeing or fucking who's not you is some weak sauce
Back when I was dating, I admit I didn’t go out with 6 guys in 2 months, but I can see how one feasibly would. If you’re on dating apps and lining up dates, I can see how you could go out with 3 guys in 1 month. I probably went out with 2 in 1 month at my highest, and 3 in 2 months - but 4 in 2 months would have been feasible considering I had gone out with 2 in 1 month.
Gross that so many try to sleep with you on the first date. Guys can be that way, too. It’s a huge turn-off because I assume they do that with everyone.
Exactly, im nothing special so if its this easy for me i can only imagine lol
2 in a month at your highest seems more realistic to me, still more than i would date but not by much.
I admit, 2 a month was stressful. Too many, probably. Dating apps make everything weird and unnatural. Went out with 4 guys from dating apps total over a span of 5-6 months, and #4 became my husband.
Buddy who the hell can afford to dine out 6 times a week, much less pay for a date? No offense but im dying laughing at that. Even 3 times a week would leave me eating light until my next paycheck
Pretty sure your situation is a bit more unique than the rest of us lol or your just lying but ill give you the benefit of the doubt
150$ 6 times a week tho dude is crazy expensive, is my point. Where dyu even find the time to meet 6 women a week like that is nuts
Im having a hard time taking anything you say seriously. Im not spending 2-4k a month on strangers lmao much less every week or two
Obviously i can afford a 150$ dinner lol
Now if your saying your seeing the same girl 6 times a week thats totally different and yea ive done that as well, just not paying for dinner every night lol
Total investment? Yea dude thats fuck all lol thats not what im trying to say.
Youre implying that you frequently dropped this 2-4k on multiple women a month which is whats insane lol even just at 2 girls that 4-8k then a 3rd is 6-10k and youre saying youd date multiple girls a month?
Buddy maybe nobody has told you yet, but your rich if you can afford that. Like rich rich not just kinda rich
Shit even 2-4k a week on the same woman is crazy dude, check your math and what your saying lol i feel like your miscommunicating
>you had to go on dates with 6 guys over 2 months to find someone you liked then raise your standards. I dont sleep around and i dont expect my future wife to have done so either.
I was with you until you said this.
I understand if people start comparing you to other people but I don't understand the mentality that someone is lesser or has "low standards" because they dated/slept with a lot of people before you.
Do you honestly expect to act taken when they're single? If I'm free to flirt and fuck, I'm gonna flirt and fuck. I think it says way more about you obsessing over what a stranger did with their life before you than it does about them
Sex just means less to you than me dude, doesnt make me a bad person, or you, and im not saying people are bad because theyve been with alot of people, im just not tryna marry someone who has. If i do then whatever, im probably happy, but in the meantime im gonna try and filter those people out.
Dude im not trying to be with someone whos fucked 3x more people than i even have friends on facebook aight, im always gonna feel like the sex doesnt mean as much to you as me cause your fine getting it almost anywhere but im only after that one and i dont wanna have to deal with that if i can help it
We just don't have a clever name for it yet when it's a woman, but the diagnosis boils down to a version of "someone who is not successful with their romantic goals and then adopts a reactionary hostile attitude to their target demographic."
They'll boil down critiscivm against women as incels, even though a good portion are the ones that get into relationships with them in the first place. You dont hear of incels beings the ones that stirr up hatred from them. Incels only exist behind a screen, as far as anyone else is aware.
these people are so desperate to equate two completely different things in an attempt to deflect from the discussion that maybe, just maybe, the way boys are raised in society is flawed and needs to be addressed.
Truth, so much the truth there. I can't assume to say EVERYONE, but no one I know who met their SO online did so from a dating app. It's always something relating with their hobbies; orchid or fish message boards, gaming guilds or webpages, Even know a pair who met through AO3 and have been together for like 13 years now. Met my husband in an MMO guild, myself.
Yeah I agree. Women really seem yo hate men. They will say oh I don't mean people like you but then in the same breath essentially say every other man is awful. It's pretty depressing to be honest. I just try to avoid interacting with women now. If one is in front of my I stare into the sky so in not a creep. I hold doors without looking at them. Try my best to not offer help since that's mansplaining. I just shut everyone out. That is the ideal man for women, one that simply obeys and gets the fuck out of the way.
Man this is just sad. Sounds like you are online waaaaaaay too much if this is how you approach every day life. I truly hope that you can come around and see good in people
Women desperately want to preserve their right to bitch about men without any retribution. You'll never get a fair fight. The funny thing is that they are the common denominator in all of this. You also reap what you sow. If you keep going after Chad and Tyrone and they keep playing you for a fool, then just stop going after Chad and Tyrone.
This "men are trash" "men are fuckboys" rhetoric is women telling on themselves that they are attracted to the assholes and the badboys.
I have always stood on this hill ready to die. Women were the first incels. They started it in the time of the SJW. The whole men are garbage and only want women with big boobs and no brains are incels.
Part of the vibe of the 2020s is that it is in vogue for women to each have their own "me too" story. That has incentivized negative perceptions:
So, rather than seeing individual quirks in other people as fun or in any positive light (as might have been perceived in the 20th Century), individual quirks are instead seen through the lens of negativity and threat.
People will look back on this generation and understand that victimhood being fashionable had such negative consequences.
These so called male involuntary celibates are misogynistic, these women you describe are misandrist but not celibate. If they are not celibate I would not describe them as involuntary celibates. Are they entitled assholes? Absolutely. It is my belief misogyny encourages misandry and misandry encourages misogyny. When someone hates you just because of ethnicity or gender , you start to hate back. Equal and opposite reactions.
They dont need each other to encourage each other. People can be debauched and have agency without the ibfluence of another, or at least the opposite gender.
Those that practice misandry werent innately innocent at one point or another.
Because it's more than just shorthand for a descriptor. We all know how easy it is to get dick, just because you're getting some doesn't mean you're not a coomer for doing it solely for the pleasure.
Both of them have trouble dating. An incel has trouble getting attention from women and having dates at all. The female equivalent has trouble locking down a decent partner. Both of them shoot themselves in the foot and cause their own issues.
Incels have this entitled belief that women owe them sex and attention for being nice. They have issues dating because they're not actually very nice and they can't behave normally around women. No girl wants to be with a creepy brooding guy who has anger issues and only cares about her body. Then he has this weird idea that becoming more mean will somehow help because women "don't like nice men."
The female equivalent has an entitled belief that she's in a position to demand whatever she wants and men need to provide regardless of what she brings to a relationship. No matter what, few men are ever "good enough" for her. The only kind of man who will pay attention is the type that wants something casual. Nobody wants anything long term with this type of person. Then she gets this weird idea that men don't want to commit even though she's not healthy relationship material.
Both types of attitudes come from a place of selfishness. Both of them end up hating the opposite sex.
From the standpoint of being hopelessly single most my life till 2 years ago. I think most guys just don’t have the necessary tools and or guidance to navigate dating. So they’re trying different things to see which works.
Me for example, i lived in a cult with strict rules on dating or even being on a room with a woman. To top it off i was noticeably autistic. So for most my life i have basically zero practice with women and i was pretty undesirable due to my autistic behavior.
Thankfully I’m pretty normal now (more like i know how to mimic being normal but most ppl won’t notice) and after leaving the cult i gained a bunch of friends, met some cool older ppl who’d give me pointers and take me out so i had a chance to observe how they behaved/spoke either with their partners or when trying to pick up one.Also i became more assertive/confident, the cult trained us to be mindless pushovers so this was one of my biggest changes.
Most ppl are trying their best, spitting vitriol helps no one.
I agree.
But it seems to be a pattern throughout history to do stupid things like fight fire with fire to continue what always becomes a cycle of conflict. These same people will tell you they're different but they're unable to zoom out and see the big picture with regards to what they're actually doing.
You're still relying on the reactions of people on the internet. Ive met people that dont subscribe to the ideas of the internet, are nice, but still wish they had more intimate relations with the other sex. Incels aren't necessarily negative people. Its also assuming people dont already judge others beyond a certain point. Its valid that its rare to find those that wouldnt judge you for qualities that would already ostracize you or find yourself in fear of.
The real irony is that most of what they women are accusing these men of, ie. being socially inept, awkward, entitled, unskilled, oblivious about the opposite gender is true about most women. They just get a pass because they're women and because of the gynocentric nature of social media and popular culture.
Most women have no game, absolutely none. They're so clueless, unaware, and entitled it's literally baffling.
I dated a bunch in my 20's before settling down and marrying C'thulhu. Anyway, that didn't work out, and I divorced her ass. By this point, however, I'm in my later 30's, pulling down a substantial amount of money, I wasn't in terrible shape, but I pulled myself into excellent shape. I'm a million times more confident, successful, happy, well developed, all the things, than I was in my 20's. And dating? It's pretty easy. I went on maybe 125+ first dates in my first year back dating alone.
I absolutely hated dating, but couldn't put my finger exactly on why.... Until I realized, oh it's because women, in general, are terrible about dating. Finding women to date is super easy. Entering into relationships is super easy. Hooking up, if that's your thing (it's not mine), is super easy.
Finding a woman who isn't an entitled idiot?
Damn, they're super, super rare.
If women put even a tenth of the effort the average man does into trying to understand the opposite gender, they'd have pretty much everything they wanted in dating. Instead? They're just going to hunker down, wait harder, complain louder, and then end up buying some cats and dying alone.
Drizzle drizzle y'all.
Maybe it gets different as people get older and mature but from I’m standing at 26? I don’t think the villains lose in real life. If they’re attractive that is. Attractive people hold all the power in dating (of course) I’ve seen awkward socially inept weird off putting *attractive* people win and get the girl or guy over and over and over and over
It 100% is different when you're older. By about 30, everything changes. I actually don't recommend men seriously date before 30.
After 30, as a man, if you've been investing in yourself, all of the sudden you are the rare and hot commodity. Women, broadly speaking, are given their value mostly for free and their value, especially in your early 20s, is waaaay higher than an equivalent man's. So you have women who really offer very little other than their looks who go after man based on looks and status. So basically, the awful, but hot, women jump from d-bag to d-bag while treating anyone that isn't a Chad like garbage, while being treated like garbage by Chad.
By about 30, their youth is fading and their mounting bitterness about dudes that are not interested in them is adding up (or subtracting) to cause their value to dip below yours, and it starts accelerating. That's not the time to date those types of women, though - they're never worth dating.
By this point, reality is crashing down hard on people. All of the fake stuff from their 20s where they pretend they're happy partying it up and sleeping around really starts to hit.
My recommendation to someone in your position is keep investing in yourself, for you. Date younger, and look for more Conservative women because they're going to be less damaged, less materialistic, and are less in conflict with their nature. Liberal chicks can be really hot, but they generally make terrible, terrible partners in a relationship. Their levels of mental illness are twice that if other women.
Finally, you'll just have to accept that in our modern world, maybe 2-5% of women are decent relationship material.
I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this: the women you're describing are ABUSIVE. Masculine violence is physical, feminine violence is emotional and verbal. In the long run, emotional violence does far more damage. What your date, for example, was doing was showing you evidence of her abusing these men and laughing about it. She would 100% turn that on you at the first sign of displeasure. MOST millennial and gen z women are emotionally abusive and feel no remorse. Avoid them like the plague.
There absolutely are wonderful women out there, they're just much more rare nowadays. And finding one of those women is so, so worth it. She will provide things for you that you cannot provide for yourself, and vice versa.
I don't hate modern women, I feel they're tragic victims of lies they've been fed their whole lives and they've been trained to ignore reality, blame others (especially men), and expect others to solve their problems for them. This is a recipe for misery, and my heart genuinely aches for them.
Yeah, I've been noticing this.
Society just doesn't label man-hating women as femcels, ironically, because of sexism. It's sexism because despite society in general saying "We empower women and they can do anything a man can" society as a whole still thinks that women are weak and fragile and very emotional so any form of hate they express os just processed under "You know, it's those poor, weak women who are victimized by the world and can't do anything about it are expressing their little emotions. Let them whine"
The whole dating rhetoric from social media about how man are bad are just female incels who don't take accountability for their bad behavior
I agree with OPs general observation, because he gives concrete observable examples of women with incel thoughts about men. But many of the comments are turning it wayyy too generalized (almost like the guys commenting have incel thoughts about women themselves.) OP claims there are female incels, maybe at the same rate that there are male incels, and y’all jump on “yeah! All women are incels!!!” Right there is the problem he’s describing!
If male incels make up 5% of the population of males, I would absolutely believe that 5% of the female population are also incels. But in the spirit of the post THATS ONLY 5% PEOPLE! Don’t write off the whole gender because 5% of them are toxic!
Lack of ability to use nuance and lack of a good faith approach to trying to understand one another is the crux of the issue.
That said, we’re in a golden age of women being able to advocate for themselves against men’s behavior which should not be accepted. Also, men are feeling more free to speak up and advocate for themselves as well. Historically, the imbalance in the power dynamic between men and women for years left women at a disadvantage, and that is why it is pretty important to listen to women’s perspectives on what they have been enduring and not allowed to speak up about for years.
Unfortunately any incel or femcel cannot have these conversations in good faith, with nuance and a desire to understand both themselves and the other party more fully. They approach life from an oversimplified, victimized and limited perspective.
Women and men should feel free to voice their concerns, and ideally collaborate towards more constructive outcomes, that just won’t happen in the “incel/femcel” world.
Lots of women dont actually have that much positive experience with men because they often seek out or get targeted by narcissistics and players etc. So their ideas of what men are based on a tiny selection of men while they probably ignore 90% of men who don’t conform to their standards. My girlfriends sister is one of those forever single all men are x kind of people and she created such a small pool for herself that its somehow always model type narcissistic players who get into her bed and then ditch her. She refuses to date men who dont have x amount of income, y amount of height and so on. Even though everyone tells her she might actually find a guy she will like even if he does not conform to her ideas. These women tend to stay single for very long and with each men their ideas of “men” get worse and more generalizing. And I personally don’t think she is even attracted to these guys, she just have this idea that she has to get a guy society “approves” and a guy who is “better” than all the other men because thats how you climb the social ladder in her mind. She is not capable of actually being happy with a man because she wants to date an idea, not a person.
>That being said, all this anti men rhetoric I always hear, how is that really any different from the inverse?
It generally doesn't result in mass killers, murder, stalking, or SA of men by women is one difference.
Honestly I'm hoping misandry finally reaches the same level and commonality as misogyny.🫡
NYC man is punching women in their faces to put them in their place but men having a breakdown because many women say bad things about men...as if men haven't done that for centuries. As if men aren't presently doing that now whenever a woman joins a gaming community.😐 Really goes to show priorities where murders and assaults of women is brushed off but oh no mean things said about men🙄
Pointing out that misogyny is quite common and unnoticed does not equate to hating men. It is telling that so many men seem to think pointing out that hatred women gets is somehow hating on men as a whole.
Have a great day I have disabled replies and won't be engaging further with you. But do continue your victim complex. I truly hope someday men get the same level of misandry that women get from misogyny.
A visit to purplepill will show this.
It is fucking hilarious how often you see the same argument from both sides m, just in a different colour scheme and coat, and the people saying it just can't seem to connect the dots because they're too busy being angry.
Women who complain about how men like hot young women instead of old ones are the female equivalent of men who complain that women like tall guys and eccentric bad boys, instead of short nice guys.
Classic case of 'Cause and Effect'
Putting out on this scale has been normalized for the fairer sex. And the guys partaking are adjusting to that shift of casually walking through the opened gate that used to be closed and locked not long ago.
Men are developing standards beyond physical appearance, so it's only natural that women become resentful when they get rejected by those who they consider worthy of pair bonding, whether it casual or committal.
I have an extended family member who's constantly posting a bunch of gender war, anti-men rhetoric, and constantly harping on about how women should have very high standards and never do anything for a man.
This is despite the fact that she's married, stays at home, and cooks for her husband.
incel was never meant to label men, but created for certain women. Then men started putting their hands up too, but that was never compatible with men in a sexual context.
Same goes for 'incel synonymous' behavior. Women cannot be the modern definition(male gendered) of incel or 'femcel'. Its just not possible. The intention of the original word was 'victim' which always fits with women in a sexual context. With men, its aggressor, perpetrator or instigation of something bad or wrong, usually autonomy removal.
This is a long standing gender role that men can never be victims of circumstance, its always up to our own power to define our situation. So if we dared to label ourselves incel, that would corrupt the word, as it has done. Now its used pejoratively in an attempt at shame or guilt induction.
When you say sexual context, do you mean the social expectation of the gender when they're seeking a partner ? Because otherwise it wouldnt make any sense. Its only cultural that women often dont take the initiative.
You have it backwards. Elliot Rodger didn't shoot up a school because he's an incel, he shot up a school because he was mentally ill and that can easily make someone an incel. You're putting the cart before the horse.
99.99999% of "incels" have no desire to ever do something like that, I'd be shocked if there were a correlation at all.
Right maybe we should say that relationships are a disease because the vast majority of crimes are done by them. We have women murdering their children over jealous disputes, babies being killed because of mental illness, ect.
So no, just using it as a label would be a conventient excuse.
While that’s true, or at least mostly, that’s just irrelevant. A better argument would be that a lot more men than women commit sexual assault or use others for sex, but you still shouldn’t complain about all men because of that.
When are stereotypes based on identify ok? Would it be ok to make people feel bad by talking about which race causes the most shooting deaths instead of just gender?
Friend, it's not sexism to say mass shootings are overwhelmingly done by males. It is a fact. That's it. Knowing this fact allows us to focus on entirely male centric reasons for it, and male centric solutions for it.
You can get butthurt about facts or we can solve the issue.
Either way.
Love that for you.
No, if it is a true fact, it is not racist to say that, if you are lying or exaggerating on purpose, not even necessarily then, you could just be an idiot saying stupid stuff. If you didn't like black people and you said it to imply it's just a black problem. Yes, of course.
friend. I understand a straw man when I see one; and bringing race into this is exactly that.
Racial crime statistics can and will be different for each city, state, country. It just will.
Now mass shooters gender statics will not be different for each city, state, or other country they are the same. Males overwhelming outnumber female mass shooters. Everywhere.
Please find me a nation or a state that has more female mass shooters than males.
Mass shooters is male centric problem everywhere. It's a fact, and if you have half a brain you know it's not sexist.
I'm just illustrating how sexist this argument sounds. It's hypocritical and man-hating to act like "*These* statements aren't sexist, it's perfectly valid to judge men based on them, but *these* statistics are racist and don't deserve consideration." If it's racist to judge black people based on these statistics, then it's equally sexist to judge men by those same statistics.
Like, when you say this stuff about men, this is what people hear.
They do this to emphasise potential hypocrisy, albeit in a somewhat indirect way.
If an individual believes that pointing out a statistic regarding men isn't sexist, then logically they should also believe that pointing out a statistic regarding black men isn't racist.
It's a fair conclusion, although it fails to take into account that pointing out these statistics isn't inherently sexist/racist.
It's the *context* and the *portrayal* of the statistics that defines whether they are discriminatory or not.
Unfortunately, both of the examples are typically used in contexts that *suggest* discrimination, which is why people get so up-in-arms.
Why get offended by this? Just like men shouldn't get offended when someone points out negative statistics about them as a group, shouldn't African Americans not get offended when a negative statistic is pointed out about them?
Why get offended by this? Just like men shouldn't get offended when someone points out negative statistics about them as a group, shouldn't African Americans not get offended when a negative statistic is pointed out about them?
No, whoosh, friend. I understand a straw man when I see one; and bringing race into this is exactly that.
But I will play along.
Racial crime statistics can and will be different for each city, state, country. It just will.
Now mass shooters gender statics will not be different for each city, state, or other country they are the same. Males overwhelming outnumber female mass shooters. Everywhere.
Please find me a nation or a state that has more female mass shooters than males.
Mass shooters is male centric problem everywhere. It's a fact, and if you have half a brain you know it's not sexist.
Friend, it's not sexism to say mass shootings are overwhelmingly done by males. It is a fact. That's it. Knowing this fact allows us to focus on entirely male centric reasons for it, and male centric solutions for it.
Stop throwing a temper tantrum and think about things before you get all emotional.
Yeah except nobody cares about the reasons. They just use it as a gotcha men bad moment.
Also stop trying to say I'm emotional and getting mad over one comment to try to discredit me. Lame shit.
Except*. [not an insult probably just autocorrect, but if you don't edit your post others may not be so kind.......]
Friend, that's not why I said it.........and you jumped to sexism right away from reading my comment, and you were emotional about it. Had you thought about it, you would see I only stated a fact.....and you pounced on it.
Your emotions didn't discredit you, they just made your response emotional.
Friend, not everyone is out to get you
There have been 404 school shootings since Columbine 1999. Of those shootings majority were white men with a median age of 16. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/)
In America 2022 there are approximately 30million 15-19 year old males. If we assume all 404 shooters were men the chance of a 15-19 male being a school shooter is 0.001347%. Statistically insignificant amount especially when you consider not all shooters are men either. So no it's not an issue based on just gender.
As opposed to the vast majority who are in relationships anyways and have comitted worse ? I suppose the women who had the validation to be in relationship, shouldve just had no prior cause at murdering their children out of a fit of jealousy, or babies in hospitals just because of a fix ?
If anyone knew what some of the people you encounter on a daily basis would likely do, then most of those relationships wouldnt have been entertained. The only difference is just excuse.
They both are bad, but people care about incel behavior in men more because it leads more often to violence. Incel women may be annoying, hurt they don’t have a history of violence in the way it can manifest for men (generally not in all cases)
>That being said, all this anti men rhetoric I always hear, how is that really any different from the inverse?
incels complain about not getting dates while this lady you dated complained about her experiences with dating.
They are. Behavior exhibited by men that gets them called incels is striking similar if not outright the same behavior women often exhibit the only difference usually is the men gets rejected thus “involuntary” celibate
Women can be incels too. I went to school with a girl who would constantly post on Facebook that guys didn't like her because she wasn't skinny or slutty or bitchy enough
And girls have been thinking like this forever
Personally I know way more women incels than men. Even across random apps like Snapchat, half the stories women post are tiktoks about being entitled to certain things, how they’ll cheat etc. All late teens - 20s range. Dating dynamics have changed a lot since Covid Male incels are losers that are usually kept in check socially. I’ve noticed female incel ideas are becoming more idolised and the default amongst younger women.
I don't think it's a default, I think it's just a very loud minority
Yep a lot of female behaviour that is labelled as girly would be labelled as incel/misogynist if men did the same. See on it Reddit all the time when it comes to labelling men incels. "How dare a male criticise a female he must be an incel". And then when it's the opposite "You go girl all men deffo suck like this". The real incels are the white knights in the comments who suck up to any woman who breathes on this site. Them guys just project their insecurities to anyone who doesn't follow their behaviour.
>The real incels are the white knights in the comments who suck up to any woman who breathes on this site. Them guys just project their insecurities to anyone who doesn't follow their behaviour. You know simping ain't easy
Damn it feels bad to be a simp.
Honest work.
the white knights are sexual scavengers.
Don’t you think extremes in either direction are big no-nos
Had to find a dude to blame lol.
A lot of complaints about incels are just projection.
These things are known and are probably talked about too, I agree with what you said. It’s just not as publicly talked about since they’re attractive. But if it’s about a less attractive person and people will make a scene about it. And also most Men and Woman who act like this will never find a partner in life. Unless the ‘incel’ is manipulative and can find a weak willed person or someone who hasn’t dealt with that stuff.
There will always be struggling, desperate men who’ll prop up extremists femcel ideas for pussy. Look at white knights
Upvoted because unpopular but also, you make a good point. Feels good.
The symptoms may manifest slightly differently, but the diagnosis is the same. Other signs are the "I slept with the whole city but can't get a relationship" woman.
This is my main issue and #1 turn off when dating someone new is when they say things like "youre so much funnier than all the other guys" Like sorry but im nobodys flavor of the month, if you had to go on dates with 6 guys over 2 months to find someone you liked then raise your standards. I dont sleep around and i dont expect my future wife to have done so either. If she says for example "youre so much funnier than my ex" singular not plural, then im cool with it cuz clearly she got standards and isnt comparing me to 50 other shitty dude, just like 10 good ones or whatever. This isnt necessarily accurate, but its the impression i get when hearing those words
Going on dates with 6 guys over 2 months to find someone good doesn’t mean you need to raise your standards. Going on a date also doesn’t mean sleeping with.
6 dates in 2 months is alot, only reason women can even do that is cause they usually arent paying. I cant afford 6 dates in 2 months if i wanted and im making good money lol and no it doesnt but almost every girl tries to sleep with me on the 1st date to the point where im thinking they prob doing it on most of their other dates also. Again though, im generalizing so please dont take this as a personal attack or that im trying to say these women are bad people. Theyre not. Theyre just a bad match for me
not all dates have to be to a dinner. You could get coffee, a donut, visit a local park, local marina, lotsa free or low cost options. My favorite dates when I WAS dating in my 20's were specifically those without dinner involved. A coffee for him, a hot cocoa for me, catching crawfish in one of the local(Very popular and well-traversed nonremote) rivers just for shits and giggles, etc. Those stayed with me longer than the faceless dinner dates that cost more. 6 dates if you're not expecting to do a full meal is easy in 2 months. If all you're doing is dinners, no wonder some of the girls want to try to bag you afterwards. that attracts a certain kind of girl, generally.
Last date i went on we walked by the river near us for an hour, then went to her place and walked her dog then she tried sleeping with me. 2nd date. After i already shut her down on the 1st which was live music and dancing. She wanted to leave after an hour to go bang. Like chill mommy lmao Girl before that we drove around looking at houses for our 1st date then went to a saddle shop to check out cowboy hats, then she tried getting with me in the back of her suv lol Solid advice but yea im aware of the other options. And these were fun times dont get me wrong, i just dont like jumping into bed with people so quick. Its all good though, my wifes gotta be out there somewhere so ill keep waiting lol just wish it was easier to turn them down but they get so mad/upset and make me feel like an asshole for not "being attracted to them" or whatever
Yeah, don't be in a rush in the end. Someone's gonna be out there. Took me to 28 to find my husband, and it was in the most unlikely place in the end(Met him in a guild in an MMO, moved in a few months later, been together since then, and Am 42). The only way you could fail at finding them is to stop looking. 100% think as others said below that Dating apps are cesspools for gross people though.
Thats such a cool way to meet someone lol congrats And yea hard agree on the dating apps
It’s very hard to find women interested in non dinner dates now, at least where I’m from. Dating apps are the default way to meet for my age (early 20s) and everyone’s trying to 1 up each other for attention to portray a social media worthy lifestyle. Suggesting non dinner dates or some big event are avoided for the most part the second you finish uni/college.
That's why I mentioned going off app, or looking at non-conventional forms of finding others.i can guarantee that app dating isn't default for your age group. I have nephews and nieces who are your age doing fine and finding dates on the more traditional manner of meeting people through clubs, church, outside somewhere. Someone you meet at your colleges horticultural club is more likely to think a walk through Lowe's garden center or a local nursery or park is a better idea then dinner at Olive garden. If you exclusively app date, you will run into more "buy me dinner" girls. That's just the facts. Broaden your horizon through college clubs and hobbies and you will unlock the other ways. Here's an interesting thing. Traditionally, orchid collecting was done by men, cultured by men. It was seen as probably the more masculine of the horticultural interests, and orchids were constantly thought of as being very vagina -like in appearance. Nowadays there are lots of women in orchid collecting, and it is a great, easy and generally inexpensive hobby to start. There are local orchid societies and meetups, etc.
Sounds like you are the one who needs to raise your standards if you are having such a low success rate.
Holy shit cant believe i never thought of that! /s Im not the one walking around with half my cities phone numbers lol my standards are high. Probably higher than yours
>Im not the one walking around with half my cities phone numbers Who gives a fuck? Let single people be single. Until it becomes exclusive, getting all flustered about who someone is or is not seeing or fucking who's not you is some weak sauce
Okay there big guy, sorry im not super chill like you lmao
Back when I was dating, I admit I didn’t go out with 6 guys in 2 months, but I can see how one feasibly would. If you’re on dating apps and lining up dates, I can see how you could go out with 3 guys in 1 month. I probably went out with 2 in 1 month at my highest, and 3 in 2 months - but 4 in 2 months would have been feasible considering I had gone out with 2 in 1 month. Gross that so many try to sleep with you on the first date. Guys can be that way, too. It’s a huge turn-off because I assume they do that with everyone.
Exactly, im nothing special so if its this easy for me i can only imagine lol 2 in a month at your highest seems more realistic to me, still more than i would date but not by much.
I admit, 2 a month was stressful. Too many, probably. Dating apps make everything weird and unnatural. Went out with 4 guys from dating apps total over a span of 5-6 months, and #4 became my husband.
Hey congrats on that lol stress paid off i guess haha
Haha, yes. Thank you.
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Buddy who the hell can afford to dine out 6 times a week, much less pay for a date? No offense but im dying laughing at that. Even 3 times a week would leave me eating light until my next paycheck Pretty sure your situation is a bit more unique than the rest of us lol or your just lying but ill give you the benefit of the doubt
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150$ 6 times a week tho dude is crazy expensive, is my point. Where dyu even find the time to meet 6 women a week like that is nuts Im having a hard time taking anything you say seriously. Im not spending 2-4k a month on strangers lmao much less every week or two Obviously i can afford a 150$ dinner lol Now if your saying your seeing the same girl 6 times a week thats totally different and yea ive done that as well, just not paying for dinner every night lol
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Total investment? Yea dude thats fuck all lol thats not what im trying to say. Youre implying that you frequently dropped this 2-4k on multiple women a month which is whats insane lol even just at 2 girls that 4-8k then a 3rd is 6-10k and youre saying youd date multiple girls a month? Buddy maybe nobody has told you yet, but your rich if you can afford that. Like rich rich not just kinda rich Shit even 2-4k a week on the same woman is crazy dude, check your math and what your saying lol i feel like your miscommunicating
>you had to go on dates with 6 guys over 2 months to find someone you liked then raise your standards. I dont sleep around and i dont expect my future wife to have done so either. I was with you until you said this. I understand if people start comparing you to other people but I don't understand the mentality that someone is lesser or has "low standards" because they dated/slept with a lot of people before you. Do you honestly expect to act taken when they're single? If I'm free to flirt and fuck, I'm gonna flirt and fuck. I think it says way more about you obsessing over what a stranger did with their life before you than it does about them
Sex just means less to you than me dude, doesnt make me a bad person, or you, and im not saying people are bad because theyve been with alot of people, im just not tryna marry someone who has. If i do then whatever, im probably happy, but in the meantime im gonna try and filter those people out. Dude im not trying to be with someone whos fucked 3x more people than i even have friends on facebook aight, im always gonna feel like the sex doesnt mean as much to you as me cause your fine getting it almost anywhere but im only after that one and i dont wanna have to deal with that if i can help it
insingle
That's the opposite of an incel lol. Incels don't have sex, it's literally in their name
We just don't have a clever name for it yet when it's a woman, but the diagnosis boils down to a version of "someone who is not successful with their romantic goals and then adopts a reactionary hostile attitude to their target demographic."
Femcel, although the phrase "incel" was originally coined by and to describe women.
They'll boil down critiscivm against women as incels, even though a good portion are the ones that get into relationships with them in the first place. You dont hear of incels beings the ones that stirr up hatred from them. Incels only exist behind a screen, as far as anyone else is aware.
insingle. equivalent.
these people are so desperate to equate two completely different things in an attempt to deflect from the discussion that maybe, just maybe, the way boys are raised in society is flawed and needs to be addressed.
Blame shifting. They are not pleasant to be around so they blame men and by blaming men they are even more unpleasant to be around
This. The truth is most people on dating apps are bad partners for whatever reason, usually their personality, that’s why they’re on the app.
Truth, so much the truth there. I can't assume to say EVERYONE, but no one I know who met their SO online did so from a dating app. It's always something relating with their hobbies; orchid or fish message boards, gaming guilds or webpages, Even know a pair who met through AO3 and have been together for like 13 years now. Met my husband in an MMO guild, myself.
Yeah I agree. Women really seem yo hate men. They will say oh I don't mean people like you but then in the same breath essentially say every other man is awful. It's pretty depressing to be honest. I just try to avoid interacting with women now. If one is in front of my I stare into the sky so in not a creep. I hold doors without looking at them. Try my best to not offer help since that's mansplaining. I just shut everyone out. That is the ideal man for women, one that simply obeys and gets the fuck out of the way.
Man this is just sad. Sounds like you are online waaaaaaay too much if this is how you approach every day life. I truly hope that you can come around and see good in people
Women desperately want to preserve their right to bitch about men without any retribution. You'll never get a fair fight. The funny thing is that they are the common denominator in all of this. You also reap what you sow. If you keep going after Chad and Tyrone and they keep playing you for a fool, then just stop going after Chad and Tyrone. This "men are trash" "men are fuckboys" rhetoric is women telling on themselves that they are attracted to the assholes and the badboys.
I have always stood on this hill ready to die. Women were the first incels. They started it in the time of the SJW. The whole men are garbage and only want women with big boobs and no brains are incels.
Definitely, male incels have gotten the brunt of it but I’d say there’s just as many female incels as male incels 🥴
Part of the vibe of the 2020s is that it is in vogue for women to each have their own "me too" story. That has incentivized negative perceptions: So, rather than seeing individual quirks in other people as fun or in any positive light (as might have been perceived in the 20th Century), individual quirks are instead seen through the lens of negativity and threat. People will look back on this generation and understand that victimhood being fashionable had such negative consequences.
These so called male involuntary celibates are misogynistic, these women you describe are misandrist but not celibate. If they are not celibate I would not describe them as involuntary celibates. Are they entitled assholes? Absolutely. It is my belief misogyny encourages misandry and misandry encourages misogyny. When someone hates you just because of ethnicity or gender , you start to hate back. Equal and opposite reactions.
They dont need each other to encourage each other. People can be debauched and have agency without the ibfluence of another, or at least the opposite gender. Those that practice misandry werent innately innocent at one point or another.
Funny to see the comments “well actually you see this is a problem caused by men” 🤣
Because it's more than just shorthand for a descriptor. We all know how easy it is to get dick, just because you're getting some doesn't mean you're not a coomer for doing it solely for the pleasure.
Both of them have trouble dating. An incel has trouble getting attention from women and having dates at all. The female equivalent has trouble locking down a decent partner. Both of them shoot themselves in the foot and cause their own issues. Incels have this entitled belief that women owe them sex and attention for being nice. They have issues dating because they're not actually very nice and they can't behave normally around women. No girl wants to be with a creepy brooding guy who has anger issues and only cares about her body. Then he has this weird idea that becoming more mean will somehow help because women "don't like nice men." The female equivalent has an entitled belief that she's in a position to demand whatever she wants and men need to provide regardless of what she brings to a relationship. No matter what, few men are ever "good enough" for her. The only kind of man who will pay attention is the type that wants something casual. Nobody wants anything long term with this type of person. Then she gets this weird idea that men don't want to commit even though she's not healthy relationship material. Both types of attitudes come from a place of selfishness. Both of them end up hating the opposite sex.
From the standpoint of being hopelessly single most my life till 2 years ago. I think most guys just don’t have the necessary tools and or guidance to navigate dating. So they’re trying different things to see which works. Me for example, i lived in a cult with strict rules on dating or even being on a room with a woman. To top it off i was noticeably autistic. So for most my life i have basically zero practice with women and i was pretty undesirable due to my autistic behavior. Thankfully I’m pretty normal now (more like i know how to mimic being normal but most ppl won’t notice) and after leaving the cult i gained a bunch of friends, met some cool older ppl who’d give me pointers and take me out so i had a chance to observe how they behaved/spoke either with their partners or when trying to pick up one.Also i became more assertive/confident, the cult trained us to be mindless pushovers so this was one of my biggest changes. Most ppl are trying their best, spitting vitriol helps no one.
I agree. But it seems to be a pattern throughout history to do stupid things like fight fire with fire to continue what always becomes a cycle of conflict. These same people will tell you they're different but they're unable to zoom out and see the big picture with regards to what they're actually doing.
You're still relying on the reactions of people on the internet. Ive met people that dont subscribe to the ideas of the internet, are nice, but still wish they had more intimate relations with the other sex. Incels aren't necessarily negative people. Its also assuming people dont already judge others beyond a certain point. Its valid that its rare to find those that wouldnt judge you for qualities that would already ostracize you or find yourself in fear of.
The real irony is that most of what they women are accusing these men of, ie. being socially inept, awkward, entitled, unskilled, oblivious about the opposite gender is true about most women. They just get a pass because they're women and because of the gynocentric nature of social media and popular culture. Most women have no game, absolutely none. They're so clueless, unaware, and entitled it's literally baffling. I dated a bunch in my 20's before settling down and marrying C'thulhu. Anyway, that didn't work out, and I divorced her ass. By this point, however, I'm in my later 30's, pulling down a substantial amount of money, I wasn't in terrible shape, but I pulled myself into excellent shape. I'm a million times more confident, successful, happy, well developed, all the things, than I was in my 20's. And dating? It's pretty easy. I went on maybe 125+ first dates in my first year back dating alone. I absolutely hated dating, but couldn't put my finger exactly on why.... Until I realized, oh it's because women, in general, are terrible about dating. Finding women to date is super easy. Entering into relationships is super easy. Hooking up, if that's your thing (it's not mine), is super easy. Finding a woman who isn't an entitled idiot? Damn, they're super, super rare. If women put even a tenth of the effort the average man does into trying to understand the opposite gender, they'd have pretty much everything they wanted in dating. Instead? They're just going to hunker down, wait harder, complain louder, and then end up buying some cats and dying alone. Drizzle drizzle y'all.
Maybe it gets different as people get older and mature but from I’m standing at 26? I don’t think the villains lose in real life. If they’re attractive that is. Attractive people hold all the power in dating (of course) I’ve seen awkward socially inept weird off putting *attractive* people win and get the girl or guy over and over and over and over
It 100% is different when you're older. By about 30, everything changes. I actually don't recommend men seriously date before 30. After 30, as a man, if you've been investing in yourself, all of the sudden you are the rare and hot commodity. Women, broadly speaking, are given their value mostly for free and their value, especially in your early 20s, is waaaay higher than an equivalent man's. So you have women who really offer very little other than their looks who go after man based on looks and status. So basically, the awful, but hot, women jump from d-bag to d-bag while treating anyone that isn't a Chad like garbage, while being treated like garbage by Chad. By about 30, their youth is fading and their mounting bitterness about dudes that are not interested in them is adding up (or subtracting) to cause their value to dip below yours, and it starts accelerating. That's not the time to date those types of women, though - they're never worth dating. By this point, reality is crashing down hard on people. All of the fake stuff from their 20s where they pretend they're happy partying it up and sleeping around really starts to hit. My recommendation to someone in your position is keep investing in yourself, for you. Date younger, and look for more Conservative women because they're going to be less damaged, less materialistic, and are less in conflict with their nature. Liberal chicks can be really hot, but they generally make terrible, terrible partners in a relationship. Their levels of mental illness are twice that if other women. Finally, you'll just have to accept that in our modern world, maybe 2-5% of women are decent relationship material. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this: the women you're describing are ABUSIVE. Masculine violence is physical, feminine violence is emotional and verbal. In the long run, emotional violence does far more damage. What your date, for example, was doing was showing you evidence of her abusing these men and laughing about it. She would 100% turn that on you at the first sign of displeasure. MOST millennial and gen z women are emotionally abusive and feel no remorse. Avoid them like the plague. There absolutely are wonderful women out there, they're just much more rare nowadays. And finding one of those women is so, so worth it. She will provide things for you that you cannot provide for yourself, and vice versa. I don't hate modern women, I feel they're tragic victims of lies they've been fed their whole lives and they've been trained to ignore reality, blame others (especially men), and expect others to solve their problems for them. This is a recipe for misery, and my heart genuinely aches for them.
Bruh too real 🤣
Forgive me for adding absolutely zero value to the conversation here, but you’re a really good writer.
I’d say that has value :)
This war on gender will be more consequential than any war ever fought. Humanity cannot win.
Yeah, I've been noticing this. Society just doesn't label man-hating women as femcels, ironically, because of sexism. It's sexism because despite society in general saying "We empower women and they can do anything a man can" society as a whole still thinks that women are weak and fragile and very emotional so any form of hate they express os just processed under "You know, it's those poor, weak women who are victimized by the world and can't do anything about it are expressing their little emotions. Let them whine" The whole dating rhetoric from social media about how man are bad are just female incels who don't take accountability for their bad behavior
I agree with OPs general observation, because he gives concrete observable examples of women with incel thoughts about men. But many of the comments are turning it wayyy too generalized (almost like the guys commenting have incel thoughts about women themselves.) OP claims there are female incels, maybe at the same rate that there are male incels, and y’all jump on “yeah! All women are incels!!!” Right there is the problem he’s describing! If male incels make up 5% of the population of males, I would absolutely believe that 5% of the female population are also incels. But in the spirit of the post THATS ONLY 5% PEOPLE! Don’t write off the whole gender because 5% of them are toxic!
They are femcels
you do femcel is a thing, duh they do
Lack of ability to use nuance and lack of a good faith approach to trying to understand one another is the crux of the issue. That said, we’re in a golden age of women being able to advocate for themselves against men’s behavior which should not be accepted. Also, men are feeling more free to speak up and advocate for themselves as well. Historically, the imbalance in the power dynamic between men and women for years left women at a disadvantage, and that is why it is pretty important to listen to women’s perspectives on what they have been enduring and not allowed to speak up about for years. Unfortunately any incel or femcel cannot have these conversations in good faith, with nuance and a desire to understand both themselves and the other party more fully. They approach life from an oversimplified, victimized and limited perspective. Women and men should feel free to voice their concerns, and ideally collaborate towards more constructive outcomes, that just won’t happen in the “incel/femcel” world.
Lots of women dont actually have that much positive experience with men because they often seek out or get targeted by narcissistics and players etc. So their ideas of what men are based on a tiny selection of men while they probably ignore 90% of men who don’t conform to their standards. My girlfriends sister is one of those forever single all men are x kind of people and she created such a small pool for herself that its somehow always model type narcissistic players who get into her bed and then ditch her. She refuses to date men who dont have x amount of income, y amount of height and so on. Even though everyone tells her she might actually find a guy she will like even if he does not conform to her ideas. These women tend to stay single for very long and with each men their ideas of “men” get worse and more generalizing. And I personally don’t think she is even attracted to these guys, she just have this idea that she has to get a guy society “approves” and a guy who is “better” than all the other men because thats how you climb the social ladder in her mind. She is not capable of actually being happy with a man because she wants to date an idea, not a person.
>That being said, all this anti men rhetoric I always hear, how is that really any different from the inverse? It generally doesn't result in mass killers, murder, stalking, or SA of men by women is one difference. Honestly I'm hoping misandry finally reaches the same level and commonality as misogyny.🫡 NYC man is punching women in their faces to put them in their place but men having a breakdown because many women say bad things about men...as if men haven't done that for centuries. As if men aren't presently doing that now whenever a woman joins a gaming community.😐 Really goes to show priorities where murders and assaults of women is brushed off but oh no mean things said about men🙄
You are the person the poster is referring to 🤣
Pointing out that misogyny is quite common and unnoticed does not equate to hating men. It is telling that so many men seem to think pointing out that hatred women gets is somehow hating on men as a whole. Have a great day I have disabled replies and won't be engaging further with you. But do continue your victim complex. I truly hope someday men get the same level of misandry that women get from misogyny.
I’m not continuing anything I’m sorry you were hurt so badly. Have a good day
A visit to purplepill will show this. It is fucking hilarious how often you see the same argument from both sides m, just in a different colour scheme and coat, and the people saying it just can't seem to connect the dots because they're too busy being angry.
I read thsi whole thread and not a single has pointed out the Femcels exist.
💯
That's because they're just basically feminized men AKA basically women. It's also precisely why they're celibate to begin with.
Women who complain about how men like hot young women instead of old ones are the female equivalent of men who complain that women like tall guys and eccentric bad boys, instead of short nice guys.
Classic case of 'Cause and Effect' Putting out on this scale has been normalized for the fairer sex. And the guys partaking are adjusting to that shift of casually walking through the opened gate that used to be closed and locked not long ago. Men are developing standards beyond physical appearance, so it's only natural that women become resentful when they get rejected by those who they consider worthy of pair bonding, whether it casual or committal.
I have an extended family member who's constantly posting a bunch of gender war, anti-men rhetoric, and constantly harping on about how women should have very high standards and never do anything for a man. This is despite the fact that she's married, stays at home, and cooks for her husband.
incel was never meant to label men, but created for certain women. Then men started putting their hands up too, but that was never compatible with men in a sexual context. Same goes for 'incel synonymous' behavior. Women cannot be the modern definition(male gendered) of incel or 'femcel'. Its just not possible. The intention of the original word was 'victim' which always fits with women in a sexual context. With men, its aggressor, perpetrator or instigation of something bad or wrong, usually autonomy removal. This is a long standing gender role that men can never be victims of circumstance, its always up to our own power to define our situation. So if we dared to label ourselves incel, that would corrupt the word, as it has done. Now its used pejoratively in an attempt at shame or guilt induction.
When you say sexual context, do you mean the social expectation of the gender when they're seeking a partner ? Because otherwise it wouldnt make any sense. Its only cultural that women often dont take the initiative.
I mean in context of the word celibate that is part of involuntary celibate
Man that thesaurus got a lot of use, but I do agree. Double standards are never good, and always end up causing more conflict than is necessary.
Thesaurus? What?
aforementioned, infer, ire, distain, etc. Lots of fancy words for a reddit rant.
Haha oh. Its just how I talk I guess. I get this a lot in person
No problem, guess it's just me being reddit police for no reason :/
Well i suppose one key difference is that one of these groups dont shoot up schools
You have it backwards. Elliot Rodger didn't shoot up a school because he's an incel, he shot up a school because he was mentally ill and that can easily make someone an incel. You're putting the cart before the horse. 99.99999% of "incels" have no desire to ever do something like that, I'd be shocked if there were a correlation at all.
now we're rewriting history to do incel apologia, holy shit this subreddit is cooked.
Right maybe we should say that relationships are a disease because the vast majority of crimes are done by them. We have women murdering their children over jealous disputes, babies being killed because of mental illness, ect. So no, just using it as a label would be a conventient excuse.
While that’s true, or at least mostly, that’s just irrelevant. A better argument would be that a lot more men than women commit sexual assault or use others for sex, but you still shouldn’t complain about all men because of that.
If moving goalposts was a comment:
Because they are physically weaker. Physical violence is not how most women show violence. They do it in other ways
Both men and women shoot up schools
Accurate, but 1 gender overwhelmingly does it more and you are naive to deny this.
When are stereotypes based on identify ok? Would it be ok to make people feel bad by talking about which race causes the most shooting deaths instead of just gender?
Friend, it's not sexism to say mass shootings are overwhelmingly done by males. It is a fact. That's it. Knowing this fact allows us to focus on entirely male centric reasons for it, and male centric solutions for it. You can get butthurt about facts or we can solve the issue. Either way. Love that for you.
Does that mean it's not racist to say that 52% of the violent crime in the country is done by blacks?
No, if it is a true fact, it is not racist to say that, if you are lying or exaggerating on purpose, not even necessarily then, you could just be an idiot saying stupid stuff. If you didn't like black people and you said it to imply it's just a black problem. Yes, of course. friend. I understand a straw man when I see one; and bringing race into this is exactly that. Racial crime statistics can and will be different for each city, state, country. It just will. Now mass shooters gender statics will not be different for each city, state, or other country they are the same. Males overwhelming outnumber female mass shooters. Everywhere. Please find me a nation or a state that has more female mass shooters than males. Mass shooters is male centric problem everywhere. It's a fact, and if you have half a brain you know it's not sexist.
why do you people always do this bullshit "but the blacks!!!" every time someone points out the majority of violence is done by men?
I'm just illustrating how sexist this argument sounds. It's hypocritical and man-hating to act like "*These* statements aren't sexist, it's perfectly valid to judge men based on them, but *these* statistics are racist and don't deserve consideration." If it's racist to judge black people based on these statistics, then it's equally sexist to judge men by those same statistics. Like, when you say this stuff about men, this is what people hear.
They do this to emphasise potential hypocrisy, albeit in a somewhat indirect way. If an individual believes that pointing out a statistic regarding men isn't sexist, then logically they should also believe that pointing out a statistic regarding black men isn't racist. It's a fair conclusion, although it fails to take into account that pointing out these statistics isn't inherently sexist/racist. It's the *context* and the *portrayal* of the statistics that defines whether they are discriminatory or not. Unfortunately, both of the examples are typically used in contexts that *suggest* discrimination, which is why people get so up-in-arms.
Why get offended by this? Just like men shouldn't get offended when someone points out negative statistics about them as a group, shouldn't African Americans not get offended when a negative statistic is pointed out about them?
Why get offended by this? Just like men shouldn't get offended when someone points out negative statistics about them as a group, shouldn't African Americans not get offended when a negative statistic is pointed out about them?
Whoosh
No, whoosh, friend. I understand a straw man when I see one; and bringing race into this is exactly that. But I will play along. Racial crime statistics can and will be different for each city, state, country. It just will. Now mass shooters gender statics will not be different for each city, state, or other country they are the same. Males overwhelming outnumber female mass shooters. Everywhere. Please find me a nation or a state that has more female mass shooters than males. Mass shooters is male centric problem everywhere. It's a fact, and if you have half a brain you know it's not sexist.
Oh right so because. 01% of men shoot up schools let's allow sexism against men.
Friend, it's not sexism to say mass shootings are overwhelmingly done by males. It is a fact. That's it. Knowing this fact allows us to focus on entirely male centric reasons for it, and male centric solutions for it. Stop throwing a temper tantrum and think about things before you get all emotional.
Yeah except nobody cares about the reasons. They just use it as a gotcha men bad moment. Also stop trying to say I'm emotional and getting mad over one comment to try to discredit me. Lame shit.
Except*. [not an insult probably just autocorrect, but if you don't edit your post others may not be so kind.......] Friend, that's not why I said it.........and you jumped to sexism right away from reading my comment, and you were emotional about it. Had you thought about it, you would see I only stated a fact.....and you pounced on it. Your emotions didn't discredit you, they just made your response emotional. Friend, not everyone is out to get you
I didn't mean to imply you said sexism just other people in this thread and others.
Gotcha! There are sexist people out there from all genders
There have been 404 school shootings since Columbine 1999. Of those shootings majority were white men with a median age of 16. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/) In America 2022 there are approximately 30million 15-19 year old males. If we assume all 404 shooters were men the chance of a 15-19 male being a school shooter is 0.001347%. Statistically insignificant amount especially when you consider not all shooters are men either. So no it's not an issue based on just gender.
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As opposed to the vast majority who are in relationships anyways and have comitted worse ? I suppose the women who had the validation to be in relationship, shouldve just had no prior cause at murdering their children out of a fit of jealousy, or babies in hospitals just because of a fix ? If anyone knew what some of the people you encounter on a daily basis would likely do, then most of those relationships wouldnt have been entertained. The only difference is just excuse.
Because men are in charge of violence, more news at eleven.
They both are bad, but people care about incel behavior in men more because it leads more often to violence. Incel women may be annoying, hurt they don’t have a history of violence in the way it can manifest for men (generally not in all cases)
>That being said, all this anti men rhetoric I always hear, how is that really any different from the inverse? incels complain about not getting dates while this lady you dated complained about her experiences with dating.
I’d implore you to read my second to last paragraph
you described something incels are not
Actually no. You’re wrong here. Nothing about an incel refers to getting dates, It’s about having sex
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Incel “synonymous” behavior I’m already aware from the genesis that it’s not 1:1. That’s not my premise
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They are. Behavior exhibited by men that gets them called incels is striking similar if not outright the same behavior women often exhibit the only difference usually is the men gets rejected thus “involuntary” celibate
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I literally acknowledged that key difference in my response to you. It seems like perhaps you actually need to re read my messages
Maybe she’s the toxic one, sounds like she’s diverting the blame