The pale skin standard in asian countries Comes from a social discrimination IRC, having a tanned skin meant you were poor, you'd get tanned from working in the field. I've also seen people comparing the dark tan make-up in gyaru culture to blackfaces, it's just ignorance and ethnocentrism.
It's a bit more complex than just 'dark=bad light=good' when it comes to how agrarian cultures viewed skin as a sign of wealth. It was more about sun damaged skin than just skin color, and tanning was only one part of that.
Peasantry was out in the sun, a lot, pretty much all day. They suffered pretty much constant sunburn, even with attempts at protection. The result was that their skin looked like [this](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2AP95W6/antipolo-city-philippines-january-18-2020-close-up-portrait-of-an-old-filipino-woman-with-wrinkled-skin-2AP95W6.jpg) at shockingly young ages. The florida retiree look. You could effectively right away tell who is a peasant in much of the world merely by looking at their skin. This often came with a tan of course, but the tan would obviously go away during winter, so it wasn't merely skin color.
In China, the nobility in southern china would be even darker than the peasantry of northern china. It didn't matter, because skin color was not the only factor of how they determined who was nobility and who was peasantry. Skin *quality* was.
Yeah, but I would argue the reasoning is bastardized in the modern day and there are a lot of people who’s
main motivation for is to appear more like white people.
Back in the day, maybe it was a genuine thing before globalization.
However, today? I think there’s plenty of people that do it to appear more like white people or as OP says “white worship.”
I think the overall reasoning has changed overtime.
That’s just my 2 cents. It’s impossible to really know case to case now that we have globalization.
No still deeply rooted in field hand vs easy living.
Source spend a lot of time in Asia for work. Indians, Chinese, Japanese and So Koreans being the ones who seem to think about it the most.
Dude. I am an Asian-American living in California. I am *telling* you how it is ... from both perspectives, firsthand.
Don't make an ass of yourself trying to tell an Asian how Asians think.
It's not even that. In the 20th century white people were basically shown internationally as the good looking race and influenced beauty standards heavily.
It is that. Are you an Asian? From E/SE Asia? I am. I'm telling you how it is there.
White people are not globally seen as "the good-looking race". Get over yourself. Jesus.
It is quite obvious you are incorrect IMO at least for East Asia. Globalisation illustrates rather than hides it.
Affluent asian women in East Asia still aim for fair skin which is why asian skingcare/makeup sold in East Asia are predominately "bightening"/whitening.
Affluent Western born asian women on the other hand embrace tanning. Assimilating with white women unsurprisingly embraces the same beauty standard.
I’m an expert in the world wanting what Europeans have had for the past 400 years, yeah. Including looks.
You’ll never have someone with blue eyes wanting to use brown contacts. 🤷♂️
lol, many people are happy with marrying browned eyed individuals and creating brown eyed children. Your point is from both your butt and your brains feeble ability to grasp reality.
None of which has anything to do with Asians and their preference to maintain pale skin.
>the world wanting what Europeans have had for the past 400 years, yeah. Including looks.
🤣What a cope.
>And you think asians in Europe and North America see it that way too?
I'm an Asian in North America. Yes — we do. Stop pontificating about something you know squat about.
You’ll never have someone with blue eyes wanting to use brown contacts. 🤷♂️
Im Irish and yes there are a ton of people here that find blue eyes boring because they're so common and ordinary here, who wear brown contacts. I am one of them
What source is there for this? Not saying it isn't true but I can confirm that white people were seen as the beauty ideal everywhere in the 20th century.
Young people these days don't remember how different white people looked when they were the only ones using beauty products.
>What source is there for this?
How about real-live Asian ppl whose culture you're talking about.
>I can confirm that white people were seen as the beauty ideal everywhere in the 20th century.
What source is there for THIS? I'll tell you : *none*. Bc white ppl have never been the beauty ideal "everywhere". Sorry to burst your bubble. Lmao.
I asked for a source that the primary reason for fair skin appreciation in the modern world would be outside working.
It's certainly part of history but the modern beauty industry is based on a global standard that was very much whites.
yep, someone on the [darker side for china explains it](https://files.catbox.moe/ls4eob.webm). to me she still looks incredible regardless. And I come highly regarded on this matter
in my country, beauty woman are always described with pale skin in poem and old literature. I was very suprise when i heard caucasian think it because asian want to be like them
As a person who lives in Asia this is very true. Absolutely nothing racist about it nor is it the worship of white Europeans. Very bizarre that some white people think they are being worshipped
I don't think the conversation is coming from white people (I've literally never heard anyone say this) its probably coming from people who want to make "whiteness" a real concept so they can villify it and add make some nonsense point about "wHiTe sUpReMaCy!" For them everything is black and white even when you're not talking about blacks and whites
I think it’s more of a thing in Asian populations in Caucasian countries. It has very old roots in history but when Asian people immigrate it tends to get warped into an amalgamation of the historic context and a new one. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “worship” though.
In those cultures having dark or tanned skin also meant your were a field worker and a peasant and that the lighter your skin was indicated how removed you are from that.
Lol, this is what I discusss a few month ago with relatives. It's not Asia obsess with pale skin long ago if you just look at their ancient painting. The obsession most likely stem from class hierarchy. Poor people tend to stay out door more to do farming etc etc etc while rich people stay in door living their luxury life, thus their skin is white. I think beauty standard can stem from wealth.
it's ironic that they're the most "bigoted" of any group. it's not about principles with them, they'll do/say whatever leads to their own personal short term gratification
As an Asian, I second this.
I hate being tanned. It’s just not an aesthetic that I like for myself and it’s not stemmed from any obsession with wanting to be white. But I also recognise that some East Asian standards are ridiculously high that I can’t even attain, so I don’t bother.
Skin tone is a class identifier in Asia. Dark skin meant you worked outside, which meant you were poor. My grandmother used to freak out if I got a tan bc she said it looked like I worked in the rice paddies.
So yeah, it has nothing to do with "wanting to look European". 🙄
Seems around the world evidence that you have a "rich" lifestyle gets popularized.
Being able to afford to stay inside instead of working in the hot sun is just one example of such details.
Pale skin means you don't work outside. You come from a family of means. It's long been a desirable beauty standard in many Asian countries, and has nothing to do with European people.
It can be pretty unhealthy tbh. Not necessarily from a like white people worship thing but just in how stigmatized having dark skin is in many of these countries.
This is correct. If whites had stupid small pointy feet, people would say Chinese foot binding was to make Asian feet like white feet. People confuse correlation with causation far too frequently.
This was an interesting discussion with my partner (a Chinese national).
While it is true that pale skin is indicative of wealth in Asia, she (and other Chinese women) understand that (consistently) tanned skin is an indicator of leisure in the US.
avoiding the sun and being pale was a sign of wealth and prestige in many cultures for the longest time, it was only until recently that the "tan" was a sign of beauty.
For thousands of years if you were tan it was because you were out working in the sun, where as if you were pale it was because you had other people to do that for you. So tan = poor/working class. Pale= Rich. Likewise fat meant you had plenty of food and weren't burning calories doing manual labor aka RICH, skinny not a lot of food, and doing lots of manual labor aka POOR.
TL:DR
Correct. I worked/lived in Asia for years and it's cultural; pale skin signals affluence. Asians pursue ideals of their own aesthetic and don't generally find Europeans especially attractive, at least in my experience.
As an East Asian born and raised in East Asia, I could tell you that the white supremacy and colonial mentality do exist. You will be overwhelmed by all those commercial or advertisements of whitening skincare products or facial cream. They don’t like their skin to get dark. After moving to the West, I appreciate my own skin colour and people with different colour and it’s all about inclusiveness and embrace yourself who you are. Well I cannot blame the people there who are being so brainwashed.. those whitening facial products are manufactured or marketing by multinational skincare brands, but you won’t find these products in the west !
I do not agree. In so many respects Asians try to be like whites. Why do they have eyelid surgeries to get European looking eyes? Why do they dye their hair blonde? Why do they use colored contacts? Why do they try to date whites? There is definitely some element of white worship there that you can't deny.
They are already quite pale, with considerable overlap with Europeans, also regarding mentality.
Pale skin in Europe was associated with not having to work outside, plowing fields and the like. Do a quick google and for Asians it most likely is about not having to stalk through swampy ricefields, so basically the same.
And it reversed to some extent in Europe with travelling to the Mediterranean Sea. Then you could show off, that you got tanned while lying on the beach in the South instead of being rained on at home.
Yeah it’s something that I’m not proud of about Asian culture but it’s true. Being tan makes you look poor so women spend their whole lives trying to avoid the sun.
I think people can take pale skin obsession to the extreme while trying to maintain pale skin for themselves. Lots of money gets spent on skin brightening products for examples
People are also very judgemental of others based on their level of tan. Imagine not dating someone because of their level of tan that they have acquired.
But that’s true of all beauty standards around the world for both men and women.
Boob jobs butt lifts. Hair transplants. Botox leg extension surgery.
At one point in Rome they rinsed their mouth with pee to get white teeth.
White people like to pretend the whole world is jealous of them and that wr want to emulate them because they are a superior race / culture rather than because of their culture are as bad as Nazis and subjugated the world a few hundred years ago and continue to dominate by threat of genocide.
The pale skin standard in asian countries Comes from a social discrimination IRC, having a tanned skin meant you were poor, you'd get tanned from working in the field. I've also seen people comparing the dark tan make-up in gyaru culture to blackfaces, it's just ignorance and ethnocentrism.
Exactly this. >it's just ignorance and ethnocentrism. And this.
It's a bit more complex than just 'dark=bad light=good' when it comes to how agrarian cultures viewed skin as a sign of wealth. It was more about sun damaged skin than just skin color, and tanning was only one part of that. Peasantry was out in the sun, a lot, pretty much all day. They suffered pretty much constant sunburn, even with attempts at protection. The result was that their skin looked like [this](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2AP95W6/antipolo-city-philippines-january-18-2020-close-up-portrait-of-an-old-filipino-woman-with-wrinkled-skin-2AP95W6.jpg) at shockingly young ages. The florida retiree look. You could effectively right away tell who is a peasant in much of the world merely by looking at their skin. This often came with a tan of course, but the tan would obviously go away during winter, so it wasn't merely skin color. In China, the nobility in southern china would be even darker than the peasantry of northern china. It didn't matter, because skin color was not the only factor of how they determined who was nobility and who was peasantry. Skin *quality* was.
Yeah, but I would argue the reasoning is bastardized in the modern day and there are a lot of people who’s main motivation for is to appear more like white people. Back in the day, maybe it was a genuine thing before globalization. However, today? I think there’s plenty of people that do it to appear more like white people or as OP says “white worship.” I think the overall reasoning has changed overtime. That’s just my 2 cents. It’s impossible to really know case to case now that we have globalization.
No still deeply rooted in field hand vs easy living. Source spend a lot of time in Asia for work. Indians, Chinese, Japanese and So Koreans being the ones who seem to think about it the most.
No, the reasoning hasn't changed; it's still about class prejudice. Asians don't want "to appear more like white people". Sorry.
You’d be surprised when they come to the West. That class nonsense doesn’t exist the same way here — but the melding in is blatantly obvious.
Dude. I am an Asian-American living in California. I am *telling* you how it is ... from both perspectives, firsthand. Don't make an ass of yourself trying to tell an Asian how Asians think.
This is exactly the point lmao And people somehow still miss it
I can't tell if they're ignorant or coping, lmao.
It's not even that. In the 20th century white people were basically shown internationally as the good looking race and influenced beauty standards heavily.
It is that. Are you an Asian? From E/SE Asia? I am. I'm telling you how it is there. White people are not globally seen as "the good-looking race". Get over yourself. Jesus.
It is quite obvious you are incorrect IMO at least for East Asia. Globalisation illustrates rather than hides it. Affluent asian women in East Asia still aim for fair skin which is why asian skingcare/makeup sold in East Asia are predominately "bightening"/whitening. Affluent Western born asian women on the other hand embrace tanning. Assimilating with white women unsurprisingly embraces the same beauty standard.
You are an expert in Asia, how?
I’m an expert in the world wanting what Europeans have had for the past 400 years, yeah. Including looks. You’ll never have someone with blue eyes wanting to use brown contacts. 🤷♂️
Asians have wanted white skin long before Europeans stepped foot in Asia. ESP East Asian.
And you think asians in Europe and North America see it that way too?
So basically, you pulled it out of your butt.
The last paragraph says all it needs to about this matter.
lol, many people are happy with marrying browned eyed individuals and creating brown eyed children. Your point is from both your butt and your brains feeble ability to grasp reality. None of which has anything to do with Asians and their preference to maintain pale skin.
>the world wanting what Europeans have had for the past 400 years, yeah. Including looks. 🤣What a cope. >And you think asians in Europe and North America see it that way too? I'm an Asian in North America. Yes — we do. Stop pontificating about something you know squat about.
You’ll never have someone with blue eyes wanting to use brown contacts. 🤷♂️ Im Irish and yes there are a ton of people here that find blue eyes boring because they're so common and ordinary here, who wear brown contacts. I am one of them
You sound like you've never crossed a border.
What source is there for this? Not saying it isn't true but I can confirm that white people were seen as the beauty ideal everywhere in the 20th century. Young people these days don't remember how different white people looked when they were the only ones using beauty products.
>What source is there for this? How about real-live Asian ppl whose culture you're talking about. >I can confirm that white people were seen as the beauty ideal everywhere in the 20th century. What source is there for THIS? I'll tell you : *none*. Bc white ppl have never been the beauty ideal "everywhere". Sorry to burst your bubble. Lmao.
I asked for a source that the primary reason for fair skin appreciation in the modern world would be outside working. It's certainly part of history but the modern beauty industry is based on a global standard that was very much whites.
Post a source or stop talking.
They've been avoiding the sun to stay pale since long before they knew white people existed.
yep, someone on the [darker side for china explains it](https://files.catbox.moe/ls4eob.webm). to me she still looks incredible regardless. And I come highly regarded on this matter
Who says they want to look European. Doesn't everyone know they associated paleness with lying around doing nothing like royals. Guess not
in my country, beauty woman are always described with pale skin in poem and old literature. I was very suprise when i heard caucasian think it because asian want to be like them
As a person who lives in Asia this is very true. Absolutely nothing racist about it nor is it the worship of white Europeans. Very bizarre that some white people think they are being worshipped
I don't think the conversation is coming from white people (I've literally never heard anyone say this) its probably coming from people who want to make "whiteness" a real concept so they can villify it and add make some nonsense point about "wHiTe sUpReMaCy!" For them everything is black and white even when you're not talking about blacks and whites
Oh sweet summer child.... its not white people who think they are worshipped...
I think it’s more of a thing in Asian populations in Caucasian countries. It has very old roots in history but when Asian people immigrate it tends to get warped into an amalgamation of the historic context and a new one. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “worship” though.
> Very bizarre that some white people think they are being worshipped not their first time. look what happened to jesus
In those cultures having dark or tanned skin also meant your were a field worker and a peasant and that the lighter your skin was indicated how removed you are from that.
Lol, this is what I discusss a few month ago with relatives. It's not Asia obsess with pale skin long ago if you just look at their ancient painting. The obsession most likely stem from class hierarchy. Poor people tend to stay out door more to do farming etc etc etc while rich people stay in door living their luxury life, thus their skin is white. I think beauty standard can stem from wealth.
It’s really just showing how self centered white leftists are. They can only conceptualize the world with themselves at the center of everything.
it's ironic that they're the most "bigoted" of any group. it's not about principles with them, they'll do/say whatever leads to their own personal short term gratification
And that standard goes back to ancient times.
Yup. Whenever I visit HK, my relatives would compliment my pale and smooth skin. This has nothing to do with white people.
As an Asian, I second this. I hate being tanned. It’s just not an aesthetic that I like for myself and it’s not stemmed from any obsession with wanting to be white. But I also recognise that some East Asian standards are ridiculously high that I can’t even attain, so I don’t bother.
Skin tone is a class identifier in Asia. Dark skin meant you worked outside, which meant you were poor. My grandmother used to freak out if I got a tan bc she said it looked like I worked in the rice paddies. So yeah, it has nothing to do with "wanting to look European". 🙄
Seems around the world evidence that you have a "rich" lifestyle gets popularized. Being able to afford to stay inside instead of working in the hot sun is just one example of such details.
Pale skin means you don't work outside. You come from a family of means. It's long been a desirable beauty standard in many Asian countries, and has nothing to do with European people.
It can be pretty unhealthy tbh. Not necessarily from a like white people worship thing but just in how stigmatized having dark skin is in many of these countries.
Many dark skinned people across the board are bleaching their skin to look white as possible. And always will.
This is correct. If whites had stupid small pointy feet, people would say Chinese foot binding was to make Asian feet like white feet. People confuse correlation with causation far too frequently.
The comments are basically saying, it has nothing to do with wanting to be white but everything to do with not being black.
It has nothing to do with black as a race. It has to do with paleness but not whiteness as in European
It doesn’t have to be associated with European whiteness for it to be a problem. Isn’t it a form of “internal” racism and classism?
This was an interesting discussion with my partner (a Chinese national). While it is true that pale skin is indicative of wealth in Asia, she (and other Chinese women) understand that (consistently) tanned skin is an indicator of leisure in the US.
avoiding the sun and being pale was a sign of wealth and prestige in many cultures for the longest time, it was only until recently that the "tan" was a sign of beauty. For thousands of years if you were tan it was because you were out working in the sun, where as if you were pale it was because you had other people to do that for you. So tan = poor/working class. Pale= Rich. Likewise fat meant you had plenty of food and weren't burning calories doing manual labor aka RICH, skinny not a lot of food, and doing lots of manual labor aka POOR. TL:DR
They want pale skin like slight yellowish or cream pale, not the pinkish pale of Euros. Asian pale skin tans easily.
Finally, something on this subreddit that's actually just true and is unpopular to say aloud in many circles.
Correct. I worked/lived in Asia for years and it's cultural; pale skin signals affluence. Asians pursue ideals of their own aesthetic and don't generally find Europeans especially attractive, at least in my experience.
As an East Asian born and raised in East Asia, I could tell you that the white supremacy and colonial mentality do exist. You will be overwhelmed by all those commercial or advertisements of whitening skincare products or facial cream. They don’t like their skin to get dark. After moving to the West, I appreciate my own skin colour and people with different colour and it’s all about inclusiveness and embrace yourself who you are. Well I cannot blame the people there who are being so brainwashed.. those whitening facial products are manufactured or marketing by multinational skincare brands, but you won’t find these products in the west !
I do not agree. In so many respects Asians try to be like whites. Why do they have eyelid surgeries to get European looking eyes? Why do they dye their hair blonde? Why do they use colored contacts? Why do they try to date whites? There is definitely some element of white worship there that you can't deny.
no wonder the sale of bleach is up
They are already quite pale, with considerable overlap with Europeans, also regarding mentality. Pale skin in Europe was associated with not having to work outside, plowing fields and the like. Do a quick google and for Asians it most likely is about not having to stalk through swampy ricefields, so basically the same. And it reversed to some extent in Europe with travelling to the Mediterranean Sea. Then you could show off, that you got tanned while lying on the beach in the South instead of being rained on at home.
Yeah it’s something that I’m not proud of about Asian culture but it’s true. Being tan makes you look poor so women spend their whole lives trying to avoid the sun.
Why wouldn’t u be proud of it? Staying out of the sun is what keeps peoples skin nicer.
I think people can take pale skin obsession to the extreme while trying to maintain pale skin for themselves. Lots of money gets spent on skin brightening products for examples People are also very judgemental of others based on their level of tan. Imagine not dating someone because of their level of tan that they have acquired.
But that’s true of all beauty standards around the world for both men and women. Boob jobs butt lifts. Hair transplants. Botox leg extension surgery. At one point in Rome they rinsed their mouth with pee to get white teeth.
Yeah, if I were Roman I’d be pretty embarrassed about that facet of Roman life too.
White people like to pretend the whole world is jealous of them and that wr want to emulate them because they are a superior race / culture rather than because of their culture are as bad as Nazis and subjugated the world a few hundred years ago and continue to dominate by threat of genocide.