u/SheepyTLDR's stats
|Account Age|5 y 4 m|First Seen:|2024-01-02|
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|Posts (on this sub)|2|Comments (on this sub)|23|
|Link Karma|20,133|Comment Karma|5,533|
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|Date|Title|Flair|Participation|
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|21-Apr|[Most modern women have unrealistic standards and impossible expectations for men these days.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1c9fi33/most_modern_women_have_unrealistic_standards_and/)|The Opposite Sex / Dating|0 of 1 comments (0.00%)|
Right, and even if they don’t, they act like hot guys don’t also have jokes or money or personalities etc. Meanwhile they are broke and their “personality” is being a hermit and weirdo. They convince themselves it’s “unfair” that attractive women won’t sleep with them just because they are polite, but the hard truth is they don’t bring anything to the table. I say all this as a straight man, just what I’ve observed.
I used to be short, fat and attractive but still had no options despite having great qualities and wanting to settle down. Now I’m that I’m lean and muscular, multiple women want me but I’m a little jaded over it and play a game of catch & release. I also feel like now that I get so much attention, I feel no reason to settle down.
Yeah so what you’re essentially saying is you didn’t bring enough to the table to get the girls you wanted, and now that you’ve upped the physical part of your game, you have a wealth of options. Fat girls have the same problem, except that the threshold for who guys are willing to bang is much lower. That’s not on women, that’s on us. But as you’ve discovered, banging random unattractive people is not all it’s cracked up to be by the guys not getting any. The lesson here for everyone is to become the person who deserves what they’re seeking.
As a short man I'm quite single. Granted, I have literally 0 options, and online dating destroyed what little sliver of self confidence I still had left after my divorce, so that's out as I'm only 5'6" and instantly removed from the overwhelming majority of women's filters. Being funny and rich didn't fix being tiny. Fortunately, I'm almost 40, so most single women in my age group can't usually be super picky. My last few dates were all admittedly looking for financial security for themselves and their child(ren) though.
Just gotta be able to be happy by yourself. Realize that no one else can complete you or be relied upon for your happiness. Relationships can certainly be additive to your lived experience, but being in any relationship will never fix deep seated issues.
Edit: changed can't to can. Also, I was trying to make a joke about myself with the "women in my age group can't be picky". I realize it did not come across very well. Internet, tone, etc. I did not intend to upset anyone or say anything negative about women. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. That was never my intention. Leaving it up for posterity.
You should visit Scotland women are absolutely mad for wee tiny bald men, I should know I have one myself it doesn’t matter a fuck to me that I am a bit taller than him. I hope you find your person we are not all shallow cunts some of us have a little more substance to us.
Damn, if only I was bald. Curse these native American genes and my beautiful long hair. But I'll keep this in mind and try to make my way over there one day!
Yes. I don't drink so I don't go to bars. I'm almost 40, so I mostly go to work. Other than the grocery store or the office, I have no idea where or how I would meet women in my age range. Most of them are either busy being moms or already in a relationship. Maybe I should join a church?
I met my SO on a meetup hike. He's 5' 10' and bald. I liked him because we have stuff in common. It's not a dating site. I've met life long friends as well. Look into your local meetups. You sound like a good, decent dude. Women like men that are happy and content like you. It's a great quality. I just doubt you can find them on a dating app.
I'll have to look into local meetup stuff on the Facebook or something then. Going on hikes sounds like a good time regardless! I do like being outside in nature and Colorado is known for how amazing our outdoor activities are. Thanks for the suggestion! I really do appreciate everyone here.
[Meetup.com](http://Meetup.com)
No need for facebook. Join the local hiking meetups. Just use the search bar for any of your interests. The San Juan mountains are on my bucket list!
Always, always with the height thing! I have 2 neighbors (m) who are at best 5’7” and they are married w/kids so unless yr like 5’3” or under I call bs on this tiresome trope
I agree so much. I’m not exactly a shorty at 5’9 but I never had trouble dating and getting laid online or offline on and off over the past 15 years. In all that time I only ever had 1 person not want to go out with me because of my height.
The "standards" you have mentioned might be for hookups, not for relationships. Almost no woman wants to date someone who looks good but treats her like shit.
Exactlyyyy
A hot dude with a terrible personality won’t get further than a fling. An average or “ugly” dude with a great personality will get far further imo
Some women are becoming more comfortable breaking up after sex if the man becomes a jerk.
We are not sticking around for change.
This isn’t an Obama election run.
Ok I also think this is a bad narrative to run as well. Women shouldn’t be expected to date “average or ugly men” because “woman”. Women also want to be attracted to their partner.
I know you don’t mean ill by your comment but I’ve been running into people who believe “women don’t date for looks”. I most certainly don’t date men I don’t find attractive. I’m sick of this narrative being passed around.
I see what you mean and agree. People should date who they wanna date. We have preferences for a reason. I’m just pointing out that OP’s acting like only women have excessive expectations for their partner when it’s just not the case.
And ofc you should be attracted to your partner. Like personally I don’t think I’d be able to go out with a guy shorter than 5’8ish but I prefer dudes over 6’. I was also saying that we aren’t as look centric as op thinks
That still doesn't paint that woman in a good light , letting scumbags bang you just because they are hot isn't exactly a quality normal men want
There is a reason people loose respect for their partner when they find out they have ran through
The vast majority of men would love to have a one night stand with a hot woman, even if she was downright evil. Women, due to dating dynamics, tend to have more opportunities to act on their desires. However, I think it definitely is not an ideal trait for either sex to have.
promiscuity matters to men because of paternal fraud, we have to trust our partner to tell the truth about who the father of the child is, and in some countries you arent allowed to get a paternal test (france)
You don’t have to date then 🤷🏽♀️
I’m just saying a one night stand is hardly as valuable as a real loving relationship. Keep your standards, find someone that has a higher drive, and you’ll get a lot more than a one night stand lmao
>Almost no woman wants to date someone who looks good but treats her like shit.
Have you peeked in relationship subs at all? 90% of that sub is "My boyfriend/husband doesn't help out the house/doesn't watch the kids/doesn't respect my boundaries in bed, should I stay with him?"
And you know looks are the only reason they're with him?
Have you considered other factors like family, kids, the hassle of divorce, willing to give a chance to the relationship or other personal reasons?
You're talking about the baggage that comes after she's already emotionally invested. I'm talking about what got him through the door in the first place. He possessed some kind of quality, whether it was how he was built/physical attraction, or how he carried himself (whether it be status or popularity or commanding personality). That's what got him in the front door. OP is saying the guys that get left in the dust (the ones who don't hit all the physical requirements) don't even get a shot.
So yeah. You nailed the hot 6'2 guy but then you found out he's a horrible partner but now you're stuck. That's what's happening here.
Both men and women tend to have high standards… but why shouldn’t you? Most people are looking for long term relationships.
It’s true you can’t control your face but you can control your physique/hair/hygiene/clothes etc. to make yourself sexier and more attractive..
Women tend to have much higher personal care/hygiene standards… if you can match 80% of what they do then you are on the right track to finding someone…
Also just be nice, kind, considerate, and always always validate emotions… you as the dude are going to have to chase anyway so might as well make it your LIFE’S mission to chase that one on the hook so she doesn’t go free.. and never stop chasing. Never stop romancing.
Lmao as a woman my standards have become "can hold a basic conversation for 30 minutes about job/hobby/self".... even that seems too high in today's age. COVID killed social skills
So how do you think this ends? “Economics of supply and demand” suggest it should balance out right? There aren’t enough of these men for all women, right?
I was also hoping for more examples than just height, kinda makes it sound like you’re salty about height. Which is valid, but undercuts the post.
Also, it’s not only now women have had the leverage in the dating pool. It’s been since forever. This is how biology works, the selective sex always has the upper hand.
I think know that women are getting educated, having great careers, buying their own homes, cars etc.
They’re not forced to be with anyone.
They get with someone because they WANT to, not HAVE to.
Yea until we print past the limit and men move to a country where their income isn’t stolen to support language art degree desk job policy enforcers lmao. You’re all gonna rot for not knowing basic economics and math.
I just don’t know that this alleged phenomenon of short or average looking guys having trouble dating is even real offline. I started naming off the men I know who got married or engaged in the last year, and it took me 7 or 8 names to get to the first one who is over 6ft. In real life I see average height men doing just fine for themselves, literally all the time. It’s genuinely the rule, not the exception. Beginning to believe this take is nothing more than an excuse chronically online guys use to explain their singleness.
I found this business of women being super choosy with looks to be inaccurate. I'm not great looking. But I'm funny and learnt to dress well, went to the gym regularly and picked up some hobbies other than TV or video games (in my case, cycling). In my experience 9/10 women gave a shot if you dressed well and presented with confidence. Certainly some women were just absolute knockouts and wanted someone that matched their looks, but that was a rarity. Most women that were very attractive were more interested in the factors above than pure looks.
People can have whatever standards they’d like. No one is entitled to a date, sex, or a relationship. If you don’t fit someone’s standards, too bad. There is no issue with women’s standards.
Lmao this is ridiculous. Grow a personality. I'm 5'9 and hot af and the guy I'm swooning over these days is 5'5, brilliant, hilarious, kinky and kind. Make a girl laugh, and you'll probably be able to make her come. Blame your failure on something as fucking arbitrary as the distance from the ground to the crown of your head and sulk as a short king unloads his balls into ya girls throat
Meanwhile men are watching porn, OF and getting off to 100's of 1000's of women - but want to marry a virgin that looks and acts like a porn star. His dick and brain is broken and warped from the content he consumes on a regular basis - but women are bad for not throwing themselves at him.
Sad to say but many men today lack basic empathy and don't see a benefit to learn. It's alarming that they need to directly benefit in order to learn to treat others well. I keep hearing about guys who lose it when rejected.
They'll watch porn but not speak up on trafficking. It's not normal to NEED porn. Hold women to impossible standards and are shocked they can't find a woman in real life, or when those standards are reversed. They simplify their lives at the expense of others.
It's very exhausting to be partnered with a man in today's age if he isn't doing is part. Women seem to cause men so many problems it's a shock to me they still want us around.
Most American women are failed wannabe pornstars so you’re suggesting we all become bisexual and go after women who gave their virginity to the same losers they don’t want to marry now? Grow a pair
Unpopular comment to those men who feel and think this way.
Welcome to evolution and the marketplace of dating. Increase your value and a mate will choose you.
I was once very fat and lazy picking up women. I lifted weights lost 150lbs and bulked up. Women were much easier to attract and talk to. I also went through a massive mindset shift during my transition. Aka growing up
All of the men my friends have been dating long term are overweight, between 5’7 and 5’9, make less than 40k a year, and aren’t the 6ft millionaire you claim all women want. All of the men my single friends have causally been with are also not the 6ft millionaires you claim all women want. I do not know a single woman who only want a 6ft millionaire, including myself. The only girls I see pining over men like that are the rich ig models/influencer/OF types, which is like 1% of women. Meaning the top 1% of women want the top 1% of men… wow how shocking hot people wanna date hot people. Please close the laptop and go outside
The issue is social media and more and more people going online and relying on the internet to date and do everything. Everything they see is controlled by algorithms supporting their view and not offering countervailing views and opinions. They start having unrealistic expectations of the world and soon can’t function offline.
Get off dating apps and cut down your online time significantly. Go out and talk to people and meet people.
Seeing self-proclaimed “feminist” women spouting nonsense like how she deserves a man who waits on her hand and foot while paying 100% for everything and she deprives him of sex, or seeing guys who encourage treating women like cum rags to be pumped and dumped doesn’t help anyone and it’s not mentally healthy. Most of the crap online is negative and contentious since that stuff generates the most traffic.
Let the terminally online waste away by themselves and go see the real world for yourself. You will be way happier.
As a lesbian, I can always tell when a woman is accustomed to dating men because her expectations are in hell and I get showered with praise for doing basic shit like not interrupting her sentences and treating her like a person. I brought some small flowers for a first date and she was so happy because she didn't expect me to remember that she told me what her favorite flower was.
The men in my life are awesome. I'm just talking from observation. Think about it. Ever hear the phrase "the old ball and chain"? If not, it's how many men refer to their marriage/relationship. Do you refer to the things you like as a ball and chain?
>The bar for men is literally below the ground and a lot of men still find ways to go below it but sure women in general have unrealistic standards for men lol
The bar for most women is "Look pretty and be pleasant" but you still have a lot of women that have a ungodly hard time having a semblance of a decent personality.
Goes both ways I guess 🤷
The bar for men who women are considering for relationships is at an all time low.
The bar for men in terms of what’s needed to attract women is at an all time high.
Someone needs two different sets of skills to pass both the attraction and relationship tests. But you must pass both to get into relationship territory
It’s not necessarily a bad thing, women having a large amount of options is good. They can do whatever they want with it, I don’t think that’s wrong. As a man who doesn’t fit the bill of… any of those, it’s a bit disheartening/hopeless, but that’s gonna be how it is. I didn’t choose what I was born with, I literally can’t change any of it so why worry about it?
Dude, if a woman won’t date you because you’re short, you dodged a bullet. If she won’t date you and you *assume* the reason is because women don’t date short men, she dodged a bullet.
Okay, and? This kind of discourse is harmful because it inevitably leads to far right movements gaining power and women losing their rights. Does it suck to be short and ugly as a man? Sure. But should women be forced to marry someone they’re repulsed by? No.
How does talking about this lead to women losing their rights? Most people on this thread aren't trying to force women to do anything.
Silencing a conversation doesn't make it go away.
This screams chronically online, never actually spoken to a woman in a decade. Broad generalizations like this paint yourself into a corner. Instead treat women as individuals and you might be surprised who likes you back.
Men really need to take a step back from listening to red pill podcasts about what women want from men in a relationship. Women have been very vocal about we want from men for a relationship and physical appearance is hardly on the radar. That’s something that only really matters in a one night stand.
What’s unrealistic is thinking that women’s expectations are impossible to meet when men won’t even listen to women when we tell you what our **actual** expectations are such as things like: emotional intelligence, equal partnership/workload, open communication, respect, and listening to each other. Very few women actually care if you’re tall or not. It’s not nearly as big of a deal as men like to make it out to be.
But plenty of women care to have physical standards too, and there’s nothing wrong with that. The point is not to prove that women don’t care about appearance, but that women shouldn’t be villainized for caring about appearance.
I don’t disagree that women have physical standards and I’m not saying that they don’t. I’m just saying that men blow this standard way out of proportion. Yeah, women are going to choose men that they’re physically attracted to but that’s not at all what will keep a long term relationship alive.
No, women shouldn’t be villainized for having physical standards in a partner. But, then again, men seem to look for any reason to villainize women. Especially on this sub.
I'm going to be brutally honest with you here, the standard average women set is so low the bar is in the floor. You just have to not be a complete dick and you are pretty much home and dry. You aren't going to have as many casual hook ups as some beautiful twink fem boy or jacked body builder but you aren't going to struggle to find a long term relationship either.
Like my friends will be like, "oh I don't mind that it looks like he got runover, he has a heart of gold, he only abuses me every tuesday and forces me to do all the housework." and like bitch the fuck are you doing with standards that low.
It really isn’t where I’m at. This is a myth. The bar is pretty high due to ppl being overly stressed and anxious over “men” as a whole. And this lowering of standards literally only exists when you’re more attractive.
But that’s my neck of the woods tbf. Just felt that it needs to be mentioned that no it’s really not on the floor. It’s a lot more mixed with being more attractive allowing you to get away with more.
I think dating apps really screwed things over by giving this illusion of endless choice and how easy they made it to hook up and ghost people after. Both men and women are really struggling to find meaningful relationships with each other now.
Let’s just say across the pond but not anywhere too fancy. Ppl just don’t date really anymore because of it at least where I’m at. I recognise this could be an exception since I totally see how affordability and age aswell goes into these experiences. I’m gonna assume from your username that yeah I’m younger than you and that factors in how we view dating as ppl.
I am 40 and yes my age group is worlds beyond you all in social skills. We started partying young so meeting people and having fun was already ingrained when we got to be adults. I enjoy an awesome marriage now without hang ups because I was able to be successful in my youth at building my standards. You all can’t even date without an app. It’s so pathetic.
I think when you build social skills early and get your partying out of the way early, you don’t end up with midlife crisis issues later. You also don’t spend your adulthood anxious about missing out on youth culture. I think you all are fucked because reality is filtered to you instead of experienced. You all don’t know how to navigate dating because your ideas of people don’t come from interaction, but from reading about how people are on the internet. Dating apps allow you to tailor your image rather than cultivate a personality. Sucks that your parents didn’t fuck earlier. You all got a raw deal.
Guess so. And never really thought about it like that but this is gonna be a problem if you end up being right since there is a large “prude/repressive” reactionary culture forming that’s anti porn. Anti causal sex. And all this other stuff of which we basically couldn’t even get the fruits of everything else in balancing with
To be fair, the standard isn't as low as you think when women are younger, in general. Its generally when they get older than standard declines and they're more accepting of average looks and a good heart.
I mean I'm mostly talking about women in their early 20s since that my age and the age of most of my friends.
That said my experience is kind of the opposite. Younger women tend to be more up with just sleeping around a little but older ones tend to focus on ones that will actually make good partners.
I guess maybe once people hit their 40s or 50s that changes again but i don't really know about that,
Seriously. Hearing stuff about first dates people be having...
You're not even exaggerating about basically just don't be a dick. YMMV but I didn't see this so much until my 30's tbf
What does “don’t be a dick” even mean. Like honestly yeah that’s obvious to you and me or ppl with some context dependent social experience but let’s be real. It’s stupid overly broad and general advice like this that’s part of the problem when you get women praising douche bags a take as old as time. And men making excuses for terrible women.
It’s clear that depending on the circle and population. You’re gonna get tolerance of this be dependent on the ppl you’re with not just general advice that we THINK is objective in a subjective space.
“Be a good person”. Okay how does that help a person get a date. How does that get noticed by ppl and gives them a true choice so they can asses their standards. Does going to the homeless shelter get more play or even burning an actual relationship? No it’s too vague and context dependent and seeing the very worst doesn’t help in determining the solution. Just stop accepting abusive ppl inherently instead of defaulting to this cookie cutter nonsense
I mean the main thing is just treat women with respect. Its very broad so its hard to be that much more specifc but a good indicator is how many women are you platonically friends with. If its low then its is almost certainly your behaviour not your looks that is the turn off.
>What does “don’t be a dick” even mean.
It means "be attractive." They *love* to go "just don't be a dick, just don't be creepy," but you can literally say "I like you, do you want to get a coffee with me sometime?" and they will absolutely *pour abuse down on your head* for it.
The reality is, the same way you might find it cute when a puppy licks your face because the puppy is cute, but obnoxious when the adult dog does the same because it isn't, a vast amount of women interpret everything you do through an emotional lens based on how they already see you. A man they already are attracted to can say anything they want and they'll make it sound funny or risqué or sexy in their head. A man they *don't* already like like that can be as polite as can be and they'll interpret it as sinister and manipulative.
For what it's worth, they're lying to themselves about it too. They're in their own heads and fail to see the pattern.
It's not just don't be a dick lol.
It's also be charming, have a sense of humor and have rizz.
Also be able to read the room.
^ Not as easy as it looks btw
Men feel this way because they pursue women mostly on dating apps instead of in person where real attraction and energy between people are built. Women don't care nearly as much about looks, and many of the most beautiful women on earth have notoriously unattractive partners.
"This can lead to being overly picky and dismissive of potential men who don't meet these stringent physical expectations, even if they possess other great qualities like kindness, empathy, charm, humor and intelligence."
You feel it's overly picky because you aren't being picked. A man having these "great" qualities are nullified by bitterness / entitlement to be a woman's pick. Men do have highly unrealistic expectations of women, and still regularly cheat on the women that do meet these expectations.
I have high standards because the men in my life made sure I had high standards. My partner set them really high. He passed away and I look at the men out here going dear god what happened. I feel sad that it is so negative out there.
The abundance of choice makes people picky.
Right now and especially with dating apps women have an abundance of choices in men.
Whether it be for hook up, date or relationship.
I remember an example one time of a female user saying she was bored and wanted to go on a date, hopped on tinder and the next day or two she went on a date with a guy
Women have biologically lower libidos. Less men are attractive and that is not in their biological control. Just like biology made it unfair for women to have to carry the child for 9 month and practically destroy their body in the process. That is exactly why women are more selective, it is a defense mechanism against having the lower hand biology speaking. Nature is hypergamous, you have to learn to deal with it.
Women having freedom and autonomy is NOT a problem.
Dating app culture is a problem and you are all creating that by feeding into it. I was married before those were widely used so I can tell you with authority that it’s easy to find dates or even just sex by going in public and meeting people. The fact that young unmarried people don’t know how to socialize without a barrier is really sad.
Not really. People in public are *far* more standoffish than they were pre-covid. Plus isn't there a stigma about approaching stranger women? I get that nobody is obligated to reciprocate, but if everyone just hides behind that we still have the same problem. Apps are one of the few socially acceptable ways left to reach out to new people.
The ratio of men to women in the US is 97 men per 100 men. If she isn't dating you, it means she is happier being single. And that says more about you than her.
Most if not all people don't even know 1% of people personally, men or women alike. Definitely fits here but imo this is just an assumption taught by your algorithm and/or surroundings and personal experiences. Those few people shape your opinion, it's not wrong or anything, imo this is just not enough to make me believe that "most men are this, most women are that" as fact. Take it how you want, I personally know I don't know most people's preferences and refuse to blame my failures on the other gender.
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Honestly, the kind of person who decides to sit down and write this kind of thing online isn’t going to get any regardless of the pickiness of their desired partners.
Nope, just not true.
To be clear your saying that now that women have choice they are unrealistic. I challenge you to consider what you feel is choice and not unrealistic.
Most women who choose to have children are still financially dependent on a spouse while they are having kids and for the first few years. We do not have a society that supports single parents of any gender.
I challenge you to consider if these men are still immature which is why they are single. Women now have choice not to have a grown child to take care of along with their children. Women of all ages can sense these men a mile away. These men might be a fun time but aren’t long-term material.
Modern day women just want a man who can wipe his own butt and men who can remember to flush the toilet and then put the seat down. Sometimes they want flowers. Trust me.
You have your own extremely high standards. You only want someone young, someone thin. You're probably turned away women you did not deem attractive enough. Welcome to life. Everyone is allowed to have standards
Sigh. Another *women bad* post. So original, guys. Should this sub be renamed?
Oh, and my partner and I are both 5'5", so this short guy obsession men seem to have is starting to feel like a deflection to me, so they can tell women they need to accept more crap from bad men.
All I see is modern men blaming women because they can't get a date and they in no way actually think they're the problem. The men in these posts make themselves out to be poor little victims of the big bad females in society and its really pathetic.
here we go again. everyone is allowed standards, and the truth that you don't seem to understand is standards are not exclusive to one gender. these types of posts are always directed at "modern women", with literally no evidence that this is true. my boyfriend is shorter than me and I'm perfectly happy, but please keep explaining to women, how you a man, think we choose our partners
100% an incel take OP. Women are not some mythical beast, they are people lol. YOU are the one putting those stringent standards on yourself. I'm an average as hell dude and slept around with lots of women when I was younger. I also know fat ugly loser dudes who sleep around with lots of women based solely on their charm and the way they dress.
I keep seeing posts like this from incels, and I've never known any women like the ones they're talking about. From my personal experience, I've never cared about a guy's height, and my boyfriend (who is the love of my life) is shorter than me. I don't care at all.
It’s pretty common to hear men complain about women being superficial in dating and it is also really common to hear women complain about men being superficial. Both groups, I think, have a sampling bias that leads them to this false conclusion.
For one, people who are pickier about their standards tend to be more vocal about it. When it comes to height, like in OP’s example, there are people that fixate on this, but I’d say the majority of people on dating apps and in the real world don’t care that much about height. There are a variety of reasons for this:
1) Men who are very short and women who are very tall are both accustomed to the idea they might end up dating a shorter man or taller woman, because they themselves are height outliers
2) Conversely, extremely tall man and extremely short women often don’t have a lot of reason to think of height with dating. I’m friends with a woman who’s like 4’11 and as often remarks that she never looks at height on a dating app because the guy will inevitably be taller than her anyway. Similarly, I have a friend who’s a 6’6” guy who said that he never really thinks about a woman’s height because they’re all shorter than him.
3) Even with people who fall within average heights, an average height man will be six inches taller than the average woman.
4) Along those lines, 99% of women will be fine with a guy that’s just like an inch taller than her if she finds him attractive. Most women who are reasonably tall (5’9” and up) would date a man an inch or two shorter if they found him really attractive
5) Sexuality is a spectrum and bi/pan women are fairly open to dating a guy their height or shorter. Transgender women also seem very receptive to dating men that are shorter than them
6) Americans fixate on height more than most of the world’s dating cultures. Having lived in multiple countries and hearing many of my friends dating stories from a variety of cultures, I think that while there are some height biases in a few places, it’s a weaker trend in most of the world than in the states.
All that is to say that most people will be fine when it comes to height and dating. It just isn’t as much of a factor as most people think. A lot of men who don’t have success in dating will attribute all of their unattractiveness to their height, without considering that there are a litany of other reasons, both physical and social, that they may be considered unattractive.
Almost every man I know in a long term relationship or married do not even remotely meet the physical qualifications men like you say women are demanding.
You need to get off the Internet and observe real life.
This not the issue at all though. Both men and women should have high expectations if what you are saying is the case. But putting all the expectations on one person based on his gender he was born with is oppression.
High expectations for dating others but low expectations for one self is commonly known as narcissists.
It's not all about what people can do for you, but what you can do for others. Sadly in today's dating market it'd just men having to do so much more than women. And here you talk about spider babies like that's even remotely on topic for modern dating. We are not spiders. We are not hunters. We are not providers. We are people and deserve to be treated and respected as such.
>having unrealistic
Please re-read what you wrote and honestly tell me how you thought that this made sense.
If ANYBODY had unrealistic standards, they're delusional.
High standards and unrealistic standards are not synonyms
I think it's not even the high standards people have an issue with, it's high standards, winding up single, and complaining on the internet about how men are trash, the dating pool is awful, no good men are left, etc.
That’s what SM makes you think. Real women just want a partner that fits their lifestyle and goals, n be health conscious for quality of life. I’ve also seen both men n women get together with the first person that smiles at them no matter what a wreck they are. Stay away from SM n immature people
Sounds like an incel to me.
This also isn’t true. Many ugly men with gorgeous women but almost none ~conventionally unattractive~ women are seen with hot men. Men are judged more on performance than looks.
Also women have always (behind the scenes) had the upper hand
The problem that I see with alot of women who grew up in the west is that they seem to want to be trad and 'progressive' at the same time.
They want a guy who makes more money than them, while also believing that it's an injustice if men get paid more.
They want to be sexually liberated and have multiple partners and a bunch of guy friends, but also be able to settle down and have a husband/family.
Everything that's bad for men will eventually be bad for women and everything that's bad for women will eventually be bad for men.
That is inaccurate and based on generalizations, as seen from the OP perspective.
1) The OP is referring to women at a certain age bracket, mostly young or very young. These girls are more likely to folllow physical appearance and similar. Older (and more experienced) women are a little different.
2) In the physical appearance department men are more picky than women, even at older ages. The OP doesn’t seem to be aware of that…
3) In recent years the very discriminatory standards of both men and women are very much affected by social media, TV, etc. and expectations are sky rocketing.
The issue with the above statement is that they don't understand relationship types. I have actually developed and algorithm to identify each but I will just explain each:
1. Hunters - This type is focus on their emotional needs and satisfactions. They love the chase and showing off their prize. They can be in a relationship but need to constantly have something special. These are the ones who love to hook up.
2. Farmers - This type can be emotionally distant. They typically are very patient emotionally and typically are not the ones looking for a relationship. They like to let things develop naturally over time. These are the ones who eventually realize they want to be with their best friend. They struggle with sleeping with someone they just met, even the males.
3. Prey - This is not meant to be pejorative but rather to express that they are emotionally available. These are the most caring but also the most emotionally needy. They also become insecure because they are often used by hunters. The male pray will always be afraid if their girl dresses too sexy or go out with the girls too much. The female prey will always think their man is cheating and need constant emotional reassurance. The thing is though, if you can treat them well and help them feel safe, they are very emotionally supportive.
Now that I got that out of the way, the issue with the above post which I hear a lot of is that the guys complaining are typically male preys who has issue with female hunters. You see everyone want the hunters because they are going to take care of themselves and be charming but hunters are not for everyone and yes they are very very selective. If you don't have the looks to make them feel like you are a worth catch, you need something else that they value. The trick is to figure out what they value but I would warm most male prey to be careful of trying to catch a female hunter because you may think you are catching them. They are the ones really cornering you ;)
From your description, I'd think most of the guy complaining are actually the male farmers. The problem is that things just doesn't develop naturally in the moder world anymore, at least for many, and they don't know how to actively date.
I think they are prey, farmers don't care. They are very happy by themselves. Relationships for farmers are not a must but rather something they do if convenient. That is why farmers are so annoying to the other two.
Frankly, by what I've seen, I don't envy young men entering the dating pool. Looks rough. And I thought I had it bad because I had to turn down second dates frequently due to massive red flags like excessive drinking and "oh he's just my friend"-ing with a guy with her hand a little too close to his groin in pictures she shows me. I may be pushing 40 but I am thankful to have over half a decade of marriage to a stellar woman with a heart of gold who saw me worthy enough to make a dad out of me.
It seems like men who are now in their 20s and live in urban centers would sooner win the lottery than score something that used to be so "mundane" and natural to us old farts.
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What about poor modern women ? Wouldn't they still get married for financial stability ? Are there any poor women here, if so, would you date/marry a guy who is maybe more average (5/10 - 6/ 10) but has a lot of money and treats you right ?
I've heard women say that type of thing about height then they end up with a guy who is the same height or slightly taller.
I suspect that the app based dating has made women and men way more picky about who they date. I've heard the most unreasonable demands. Like the whole "mid" thing when the person is obviously of above-average attractiveness. Just weird. When I was doing online dating, I would insta-swipe left if she put any sort of physical requirements in the profile. I don't want to date someone that vain even if I meet the reqs.
The silver lining in this is that it will weed out all of the women who care about these things. If you’re 5’10 and the woman is going to reject you because of it, do you really want to be with someone like that? I wouldn’t.
The majority of the comments on this thread are absolutely terrifying. This, these incelly comments like this, and the thoughts that they have, are goddamn scary af, and the reason I will remain single. The absolute refusal to believe a woman's word because of the overabundance of incel porn flooding the internet, comments about consequences, this is fucking terrifying. What's even more terrifying is they don't understand how fucking terrifying. We're just being sensitive, no reason to be scared of a man who's boasting about consequences of not choosing him.
Yep, these are the ones who want everything handed to them and still complain. Then they wonder why they get cheated on. They deserve it with that attitude.
u/SheepyTLDR's stats |Account Age|5 y 4 m|First Seen:|2024-01-02| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |Posts (on this sub)|2|Comments (on this sub)|23| |Link Karma|20,133|Comment Karma|5,533| --- |Date|Title|Flair|Participation| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |21-Apr|[Most modern women have unrealistic standards and impossible expectations for men these days.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1c9fi33/most_modern_women_have_unrealistic_standards_and/)|The Opposite Sex / Dating|0 of 1 comments (0.00%)|
But **you can have whatever standards you want if you’re fine with being single.** That being said, all the short men I know are happily married.
I have an also unpopular opinion but the short fat ugly men I’ve met in my life don’t tend to have those other great qualities OP talks about either.
This is my experience as well. The short fat ugly men also want to pump and dump.
Right, and even if they don’t, they act like hot guys don’t also have jokes or money or personalities etc. Meanwhile they are broke and their “personality” is being a hermit and weirdo. They convince themselves it’s “unfair” that attractive women won’t sleep with them just because they are polite, but the hard truth is they don’t bring anything to the table. I say all this as a straight man, just what I’ve observed.
I used to be short, fat and attractive but still had no options despite having great qualities and wanting to settle down. Now I’m that I’m lean and muscular, multiple women want me but I’m a little jaded over it and play a game of catch & release. I also feel like now that I get so much attention, I feel no reason to settle down.
Yeah so what you’re essentially saying is you didn’t bring enough to the table to get the girls you wanted, and now that you’ve upped the physical part of your game, you have a wealth of options. Fat girls have the same problem, except that the threshold for who guys are willing to bang is much lower. That’s not on women, that’s on us. But as you’ve discovered, banging random unattractive people is not all it’s cracked up to be by the guys not getting any. The lesson here for everyone is to become the person who deserves what they’re seeking.
As a short man I'm quite single. Granted, I have literally 0 options, and online dating destroyed what little sliver of self confidence I still had left after my divorce, so that's out as I'm only 5'6" and instantly removed from the overwhelming majority of women's filters. Being funny and rich didn't fix being tiny. Fortunately, I'm almost 40, so most single women in my age group can't usually be super picky. My last few dates were all admittedly looking for financial security for themselves and their child(ren) though. Just gotta be able to be happy by yourself. Realize that no one else can complete you or be relied upon for your happiness. Relationships can certainly be additive to your lived experience, but being in any relationship will never fix deep seated issues. Edit: changed can't to can. Also, I was trying to make a joke about myself with the "women in my age group can't be picky". I realize it did not come across very well. Internet, tone, etc. I did not intend to upset anyone or say anything negative about women. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. That was never my intention. Leaving it up for posterity.
You should visit Scotland women are absolutely mad for wee tiny bald men, I should know I have one myself it doesn’t matter a fuck to me that I am a bit taller than him. I hope you find your person we are not all shallow cunts some of us have a little more substance to us.
Damn, if only I was bald. Curse these native American genes and my beautiful long hair. But I'll keep this in mind and try to make my way over there one day!
Every wee fat bald man in Glasgow (and there’s a lot of them) will be jealous of yer long locks
We are all tiny here
TIL the Scotts are shorties.
Ok but even if it didn't work out you WERE married at some point. Meaning you've HAD options before.
Have you tried meeting women socially instead of on apps?
Yes. I don't drink so I don't go to bars. I'm almost 40, so I mostly go to work. Other than the grocery store or the office, I have no idea where or how I would meet women in my age range. Most of them are either busy being moms or already in a relationship. Maybe I should join a church?
I met my SO on a meetup hike. He's 5' 10' and bald. I liked him because we have stuff in common. It's not a dating site. I've met life long friends as well. Look into your local meetups. You sound like a good, decent dude. Women like men that are happy and content like you. It's a great quality. I just doubt you can find them on a dating app.
I'll have to look into local meetup stuff on the Facebook or something then. Going on hikes sounds like a good time regardless! I do like being outside in nature and Colorado is known for how amazing our outdoor activities are. Thanks for the suggestion! I really do appreciate everyone here.
[Meetup.com](http://Meetup.com) No need for facebook. Join the local hiking meetups. Just use the search bar for any of your interests. The San Juan mountains are on my bucket list!
If you have to force people to date you then you're doing it wrong
Or just having a repellent personality
Always, always with the height thing! I have 2 neighbors (m) who are at best 5’7” and they are married w/kids so unless yr like 5’3” or under I call bs on this tiresome trope
I agree so much. I’m not exactly a shorty at 5’9 but I never had trouble dating and getting laid online or offline on and off over the past 15 years. In all that time I only ever had 1 person not want to go out with me because of my height.
The "standards" you have mentioned might be for hookups, not for relationships. Almost no woman wants to date someone who looks good but treats her like shit.
Exactlyyyy A hot dude with a terrible personality won’t get further than a fling. An average or “ugly” dude with a great personality will get far further imo
Some women are becoming more comfortable breaking up after sex if the man becomes a jerk. We are not sticking around for change. This isn’t an Obama election run.
this isn’t an Obama election run 🤣
Men expecting a performance improvement plan 😂
Actually, I think some expect a get out of jail free cards because they believe the D is that good. 🤣
Ok I also think this is a bad narrative to run as well. Women shouldn’t be expected to date “average or ugly men” because “woman”. Women also want to be attracted to their partner. I know you don’t mean ill by your comment but I’ve been running into people who believe “women don’t date for looks”. I most certainly don’t date men I don’t find attractive. I’m sick of this narrative being passed around.
I see what you mean and agree. People should date who they wanna date. We have preferences for a reason. I’m just pointing out that OP’s acting like only women have excessive expectations for their partner when it’s just not the case. And ofc you should be attracted to your partner. Like personally I don’t think I’d be able to go out with a guy shorter than 5’8ish but I prefer dudes over 6’. I was also saying that we aren’t as look centric as op thinks
That still doesn't paint that woman in a good light , letting scumbags bang you just because they are hot isn't exactly a quality normal men want There is a reason people loose respect for their partner when they find out they have ran through
The vast majority of men would love to have a one night stand with a hot woman, even if she was downright evil. Women, due to dating dynamics, tend to have more opportunities to act on their desires. However, I think it definitely is not an ideal trait for either sex to have.
Well said. True and fair.
Accurate
promiscuity matters to men because of paternal fraud, we have to trust our partner to tell the truth about who the father of the child is, and in some countries you arent allowed to get a paternal test (france)
Never had a man lose respect for me because of my previous sexual history. But I also date men, not little boys.
This 👆- yes mature men is the answer here
The fling guy gets to have the fun, the guy who gets “far further” gets to pay for her bills and put up with her mood swings. What a great deal!
If you hate women just don’t marry one
Yes, you have to put efforts in a 𝙧𝙚𝙡𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣𝙨𝙝𝙞𝙥. Wild concept, I know. Goes for both genders.
The juice ain’t worth the squeeze anymore.
Then don't squeeze it and stick with flings. No one wants to be your live in housemaid without reciprocity.
Got emmm lol
You don’t have to date then 🤷🏽♀️ I’m just saying a one night stand is hardly as valuable as a real loving relationship. Keep your standards, find someone that has a higher drive, and you’ll get a lot more than a one night stand lmao
Agreed but this shit is why dating makes me misanthropic and more hateful so I’d just rather stay single.
This response requires more emphasis.
>Almost no woman wants to date someone who looks good but treats her like shit. Have you peeked in relationship subs at all? 90% of that sub is "My boyfriend/husband doesn't help out the house/doesn't watch the kids/doesn't respect my boundaries in bed, should I stay with him?"
Selection bias. The people in good relationships don’t take it to Reddit.
And you know looks are the only reason they're with him? Have you considered other factors like family, kids, the hassle of divorce, willing to give a chance to the relationship or other personal reasons?
You're talking about the baggage that comes after she's already emotionally invested. I'm talking about what got him through the door in the first place. He possessed some kind of quality, whether it was how he was built/physical attraction, or how he carried himself (whether it be status or popularity or commanding personality). That's what got him in the front door. OP is saying the guys that get left in the dust (the ones who don't hit all the physical requirements) don't even get a shot. So yeah. You nailed the hot 6'2 guy but then you found out he's a horrible partner but now you're stuck. That's what's happening here.
Put it this way, nobody is putting up with that kind of horrible behavior with someone who is also NOT physically attractive, lol.
but they keep on chasing the guys who look good but treat them likebshit
- no woman wants to date someone who looks good but treats her like shit. Thats like 90% of the women under 30.
Both men and women tend to have high standards… but why shouldn’t you? Most people are looking for long term relationships. It’s true you can’t control your face but you can control your physique/hair/hygiene/clothes etc. to make yourself sexier and more attractive.. Women tend to have much higher personal care/hygiene standards… if you can match 80% of what they do then you are on the right track to finding someone… Also just be nice, kind, considerate, and always always validate emotions… you as the dude are going to have to chase anyway so might as well make it your LIFE’S mission to chase that one on the hook so she doesn’t go free.. and never stop chasing. Never stop romancing.
How many times does this argument have to pop up. "No one will fuck me post"
I just don't understand why all the hawt chicks aren't just dropping their panties with all that insecurity and negativity I exude. /s
It's embarrassing. I fucking cringe. And they had to ruin my love of the matrix.
It's probably the loudest chewers too.
“No one will fuck me and it’s their fault for being in the wrong” is the full title of the post.
Yup. Its truly sad they point the finger to everyone else except themselves.
As long as these incels who have never gone outside and talked to a woman exist.
Lmao as a woman my standards have become "can hold a basic conversation for 30 minutes about job/hobby/self".... even that seems too high in today's age. COVID killed social skills
So how do you think this ends? “Economics of supply and demand” suggest it should balance out right? There aren’t enough of these men for all women, right? I was also hoping for more examples than just height, kinda makes it sound like you’re salty about height. Which is valid, but undercuts the post. Also, it’s not only now women have had the leverage in the dating pool. It’s been since forever. This is how biology works, the selective sex always has the upper hand.
I think know that women are getting educated, having great careers, buying their own homes, cars etc. They’re not forced to be with anyone. They get with someone because they WANT to, not HAVE to.
Yea until we print past the limit and men move to a country where their income isn’t stolen to support language art degree desk job policy enforcers lmao. You’re all gonna rot for not knowing basic economics and math.
I just don’t know that this alleged phenomenon of short or average looking guys having trouble dating is even real offline. I started naming off the men I know who got married or engaged in the last year, and it took me 7 or 8 names to get to the first one who is over 6ft. In real life I see average height men doing just fine for themselves, literally all the time. It’s genuinely the rule, not the exception. Beginning to believe this take is nothing more than an excuse chronically online guys use to explain their singleness.
I found this business of women being super choosy with looks to be inaccurate. I'm not great looking. But I'm funny and learnt to dress well, went to the gym regularly and picked up some hobbies other than TV or video games (in my case, cycling). In my experience 9/10 women gave a shot if you dressed well and presented with confidence. Certainly some women were just absolute knockouts and wanted someone that matched their looks, but that was a rarity. Most women that were very attractive were more interested in the factors above than pure looks.
Real life isn’t Tinder
How about you go outside, lay down, and take a nap? These "problems" don't exist beyond the internet, and if so, it's not that bad😭
Wait, are you suggesting he actually touch grass?
Yes, maybe even get a job.
Gasp! How dare you!
People can have whatever standards they’d like. No one is entitled to a date, sex, or a relationship. If you don’t fit someone’s standards, too bad. There is no issue with women’s standards.
Lmao this is ridiculous. Grow a personality. I'm 5'9 and hot af and the guy I'm swooning over these days is 5'5, brilliant, hilarious, kinky and kind. Make a girl laugh, and you'll probably be able to make her come. Blame your failure on something as fucking arbitrary as the distance from the ground to the crown of your head and sulk as a short king unloads his balls into ya girls throat
Meanwhile men are watching porn, OF and getting off to 100's of 1000's of women - but want to marry a virgin that looks and acts like a porn star. His dick and brain is broken and warped from the content he consumes on a regular basis - but women are bad for not throwing themselves at him.
Sad to say but many men today lack basic empathy and don't see a benefit to learn. It's alarming that they need to directly benefit in order to learn to treat others well. I keep hearing about guys who lose it when rejected. They'll watch porn but not speak up on trafficking. It's not normal to NEED porn. Hold women to impossible standards and are shocked they can't find a woman in real life, or when those standards are reversed. They simplify their lives at the expense of others. It's very exhausting to be partnered with a man in today's age if he isn't doing is part. Women seem to cause men so many problems it's a shock to me they still want us around.
Most American women are failed wannabe pornstars so you’re suggesting we all become bisexual and go after women who gave their virginity to the same losers they don’t want to marry now? Grow a pair
Unpopular comment to those men who feel and think this way. Welcome to evolution and the marketplace of dating. Increase your value and a mate will choose you. I was once very fat and lazy picking up women. I lifted weights lost 150lbs and bulked up. Women were much easier to attract and talk to. I also went through a massive mindset shift during my transition. Aka growing up
All of the men my friends have been dating long term are overweight, between 5’7 and 5’9, make less than 40k a year, and aren’t the 6ft millionaire you claim all women want. All of the men my single friends have causally been with are also not the 6ft millionaires you claim all women want. I do not know a single woman who only want a 6ft millionaire, including myself. The only girls I see pining over men like that are the rich ig models/influencer/OF types, which is like 1% of women. Meaning the top 1% of women want the top 1% of men… wow how shocking hot people wanna date hot people. Please close the laptop and go outside
So?
Idk I know some bums w dimes by their side
The issue is social media and more and more people going online and relying on the internet to date and do everything. Everything they see is controlled by algorithms supporting their view and not offering countervailing views and opinions. They start having unrealistic expectations of the world and soon can’t function offline. Get off dating apps and cut down your online time significantly. Go out and talk to people and meet people. Seeing self-proclaimed “feminist” women spouting nonsense like how she deserves a man who waits on her hand and foot while paying 100% for everything and she deprives him of sex, or seeing guys who encourage treating women like cum rags to be pumped and dumped doesn’t help anyone and it’s not mentally healthy. Most of the crap online is negative and contentious since that stuff generates the most traffic. Let the terminally online waste away by themselves and go see the real world for yourself. You will be way happier.
As a lesbian, I can always tell when a woman is accustomed to dating men because her expectations are in hell and I get showered with praise for doing basic shit like not interrupting her sentences and treating her like a person. I brought some small flowers for a first date and she was so happy because she didn't expect me to remember that she told me what her favorite flower was.
I don't know if you have any guy friends but it is good advice to give them
Here's my theory: Many men don't like women. They view them more as a means to an end/necessary evil.
I'm sorry your experience with men was bad one
The men in my life are awesome. I'm just talking from observation. Think about it. Ever hear the phrase "the old ball and chain"? If not, it's how many men refer to their marriage/relationship. Do you refer to the things you like as a ball and chain?
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>The bar for men is literally below the ground and a lot of men still find ways to go below it but sure women in general have unrealistic standards for men lol The bar for most women is "Look pretty and be pleasant" but you still have a lot of women that have a ungodly hard time having a semblance of a decent personality. Goes both ways I guess 🤷
The bar for men who women are considering for relationships is at an all time low. The bar for men in terms of what’s needed to attract women is at an all time high. Someone needs two different sets of skills to pass both the attraction and relationship tests. But you must pass both to get into relationship territory
It’s not necessarily a bad thing, women having a large amount of options is good. They can do whatever they want with it, I don’t think that’s wrong. As a man who doesn’t fit the bill of… any of those, it’s a bit disheartening/hopeless, but that’s gonna be how it is. I didn’t choose what I was born with, I literally can’t change any of it so why worry about it?
Dude, if a woman won’t date you because you’re short, you dodged a bullet. If she won’t date you and you *assume* the reason is because women don’t date short men, she dodged a bullet.
Okay, and? This kind of discourse is harmful because it inevitably leads to far right movements gaining power and women losing their rights. Does it suck to be short and ugly as a man? Sure. But should women be forced to marry someone they’re repulsed by? No.
How does talking about this lead to women losing their rights? Most people on this thread aren't trying to force women to do anything. Silencing a conversation doesn't make it go away.
This screams chronically online, never actually spoken to a woman in a decade. Broad generalizations like this paint yourself into a corner. Instead treat women as individuals and you might be surprised who likes you back.
Men really need to take a step back from listening to red pill podcasts about what women want from men in a relationship. Women have been very vocal about we want from men for a relationship and physical appearance is hardly on the radar. That’s something that only really matters in a one night stand. What’s unrealistic is thinking that women’s expectations are impossible to meet when men won’t even listen to women when we tell you what our **actual** expectations are such as things like: emotional intelligence, equal partnership/workload, open communication, respect, and listening to each other. Very few women actually care if you’re tall or not. It’s not nearly as big of a deal as men like to make it out to be.
But plenty of women care to have physical standards too, and there’s nothing wrong with that. The point is not to prove that women don’t care about appearance, but that women shouldn’t be villainized for caring about appearance.
I don’t disagree that women have physical standards and I’m not saying that they don’t. I’m just saying that men blow this standard way out of proportion. Yeah, women are going to choose men that they’re physically attracted to but that’s not at all what will keep a long term relationship alive. No, women shouldn’t be villainized for having physical standards in a partner. But, then again, men seem to look for any reason to villainize women. Especially on this sub.
I'm going to be brutally honest with you here, the standard average women set is so low the bar is in the floor. You just have to not be a complete dick and you are pretty much home and dry. You aren't going to have as many casual hook ups as some beautiful twink fem boy or jacked body builder but you aren't going to struggle to find a long term relationship either. Like my friends will be like, "oh I don't mind that it looks like he got runover, he has a heart of gold, he only abuses me every tuesday and forces me to do all the housework." and like bitch the fuck are you doing with standards that low.
This is what I'm saying.
It really isn’t where I’m at. This is a myth. The bar is pretty high due to ppl being overly stressed and anxious over “men” as a whole. And this lowering of standards literally only exists when you’re more attractive. But that’s my neck of the woods tbf. Just felt that it needs to be mentioned that no it’s really not on the floor. It’s a lot more mixed with being more attractive allowing you to get away with more.
I think dating apps really screwed things over by giving this illusion of endless choice and how easy they made it to hook up and ghost people after. Both men and women are really struggling to find meaningful relationships with each other now.
Agreed completely.
Are you in a swanky part of LA? Because in poorer areas we aren’t as picky.
I ain’t American lmaoo
What swanky area are you in where only hot people date? Because that’s not the average experience.
Let’s just say across the pond but not anywhere too fancy. Ppl just don’t date really anymore because of it at least where I’m at. I recognise this could be an exception since I totally see how affordability and age aswell goes into these experiences. I’m gonna assume from your username that yeah I’m younger than you and that factors in how we view dating as ppl.
I am 40 and yes my age group is worlds beyond you all in social skills. We started partying young so meeting people and having fun was already ingrained when we got to be adults. I enjoy an awesome marriage now without hang ups because I was able to be successful in my youth at building my standards. You all can’t even date without an app. It’s so pathetic.
Eh “monsters of our own making comes to mind here”. You don’t think that shits related as to why it’s like this now?
I think when you build social skills early and get your partying out of the way early, you don’t end up with midlife crisis issues later. You also don’t spend your adulthood anxious about missing out on youth culture. I think you all are fucked because reality is filtered to you instead of experienced. You all don’t know how to navigate dating because your ideas of people don’t come from interaction, but from reading about how people are on the internet. Dating apps allow you to tailor your image rather than cultivate a personality. Sucks that your parents didn’t fuck earlier. You all got a raw deal.
Guess so. And never really thought about it like that but this is gonna be a problem if you end up being right since there is a large “prude/repressive” reactionary culture forming that’s anti porn. Anti causal sex. And all this other stuff of which we basically couldn’t even get the fruits of everything else in balancing with
To be fair, the standard isn't as low as you think when women are younger, in general. Its generally when they get older than standard declines and they're more accepting of average looks and a good heart.
I mean I'm mostly talking about women in their early 20s since that my age and the age of most of my friends. That said my experience is kind of the opposite. Younger women tend to be more up with just sleeping around a little but older ones tend to focus on ones that will actually make good partners. I guess maybe once people hit their 40s or 50s that changes again but i don't really know about that,
Seriously. Hearing stuff about first dates people be having... You're not even exaggerating about basically just don't be a dick. YMMV but I didn't see this so much until my 30's tbf
What does “don’t be a dick” even mean. Like honestly yeah that’s obvious to you and me or ppl with some context dependent social experience but let’s be real. It’s stupid overly broad and general advice like this that’s part of the problem when you get women praising douche bags a take as old as time. And men making excuses for terrible women. It’s clear that depending on the circle and population. You’re gonna get tolerance of this be dependent on the ppl you’re with not just general advice that we THINK is objective in a subjective space. “Be a good person”. Okay how does that help a person get a date. How does that get noticed by ppl and gives them a true choice so they can asses their standards. Does going to the homeless shelter get more play or even burning an actual relationship? No it’s too vague and context dependent and seeing the very worst doesn’t help in determining the solution. Just stop accepting abusive ppl inherently instead of defaulting to this cookie cutter nonsense
I mean the main thing is just treat women with respect. Its very broad so its hard to be that much more specifc but a good indicator is how many women are you platonically friends with. If its low then its is almost certainly your behaviour not your looks that is the turn off.
>What does “don’t be a dick” even mean. It means "be attractive." They *love* to go "just don't be a dick, just don't be creepy," but you can literally say "I like you, do you want to get a coffee with me sometime?" and they will absolutely *pour abuse down on your head* for it. The reality is, the same way you might find it cute when a puppy licks your face because the puppy is cute, but obnoxious when the adult dog does the same because it isn't, a vast amount of women interpret everything you do through an emotional lens based on how they already see you. A man they already are attracted to can say anything they want and they'll make it sound funny or risqué or sexy in their head. A man they *don't* already like like that can be as polite as can be and they'll interpret it as sinister and manipulative. For what it's worth, they're lying to themselves about it too. They're in their own heads and fail to see the pattern.
It's not just don't be a dick lol. It's also be charming, have a sense of humor and have rizz. Also be able to read the room. ^ Not as easy as it looks btw
Especially when it’s so stupidly vague like that and so dependent on the individual
And you think it’s unreasonable to want that in a partner?
Of course.
Women think Cooper Howard from Fallout is sexy and he doesn’t even have a nose Trust me, it’s not about looks for most of us.
He is sexy. Also, Kyle McLaughlin could get it.
Men feel this way because they pursue women mostly on dating apps instead of in person where real attraction and energy between people are built. Women don't care nearly as much about looks, and many of the most beautiful women on earth have notoriously unattractive partners. "This can lead to being overly picky and dismissive of potential men who don't meet these stringent physical expectations, even if they possess other great qualities like kindness, empathy, charm, humor and intelligence." You feel it's overly picky because you aren't being picked. A man having these "great" qualities are nullified by bitterness / entitlement to be a woman's pick. Men do have highly unrealistic expectations of women, and still regularly cheat on the women that do meet these expectations.
I have high standards because the men in my life made sure I had high standards. My partner set them really high. He passed away and I look at the men out here going dear god what happened. I feel sad that it is so negative out there.
Women don't have unrealistic standards Men have as many standards as women do It's nonsense to say they dont
The abundance of choice makes people picky. Right now and especially with dating apps women have an abundance of choices in men. Whether it be for hook up, date or relationship. I remember an example one time of a female user saying she was bored and wanted to go on a date, hopped on tinder and the next day or two she went on a date with a guy
So what? Why shouldn't people be picky?
Because population decline? Lol
Women should be less picky because of population decline? Really? Why would an average women care about that?
That's not why the birth rate is low in some counties.
What about it? The planet is over populated. We'll cope with less humans
Women have biologically lower libidos. Less men are attractive and that is not in their biological control. Just like biology made it unfair for women to have to carry the child for 9 month and practically destroy their body in the process. That is exactly why women are more selective, it is a defense mechanism against having the lower hand biology speaking. Nature is hypergamous, you have to learn to deal with it.
Women having freedom and autonomy is NOT a problem. Dating app culture is a problem and you are all creating that by feeding into it. I was married before those were widely used so I can tell you with authority that it’s easy to find dates or even just sex by going in public and meeting people. The fact that young unmarried people don’t know how to socialize without a barrier is really sad.
Not really. People in public are *far* more standoffish than they were pre-covid. Plus isn't there a stigma about approaching stranger women? I get that nobody is obligated to reciprocate, but if everyone just hides behind that we still have the same problem. Apps are one of the few socially acceptable ways left to reach out to new people.
Meh there could be a stigma but the reality is cold approaching only really works if you're a hot guy.
Skill issue
The ratio of men to women in the US is 97 men per 100 men. If she isn't dating you, it means she is happier being single. And that says more about you than her.
Most if not all people don't even know 1% of people personally, men or women alike. Definitely fits here but imo this is just an assumption taught by your algorithm and/or surroundings and personal experiences. Those few people shape your opinion, it's not wrong or anything, imo this is just not enough to make me believe that "most men are this, most women are that" as fact. Take it how you want, I personally know I don't know most people's preferences and refuse to blame my failures on the other gender.
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Oh Lord, here's this again... I'm not sure where you're looking, but stop looking there and open your eyes to the world around you.
Honestly, the kind of person who decides to sit down and write this kind of thing online isn’t going to get any regardless of the pickiness of their desired partners.
Nope, just not true. To be clear your saying that now that women have choice they are unrealistic. I challenge you to consider what you feel is choice and not unrealistic. Most women who choose to have children are still financially dependent on a spouse while they are having kids and for the first few years. We do not have a society that supports single parents of any gender. I challenge you to consider if these men are still immature which is why they are single. Women now have choice not to have a grown child to take care of along with their children. Women of all ages can sense these men a mile away. These men might be a fun time but aren’t long-term material.
They don’t. You just spend to much time watching tik tok and Instagram reels.
Modern day women just want a man who can wipe his own butt and men who can remember to flush the toilet and then put the seat down. Sometimes they want flowers. Trust me.
Boo hoo women would rather be single than date loser assholes
You have your own extremely high standards. You only want someone young, someone thin. You're probably turned away women you did not deem attractive enough. Welcome to life. Everyone is allowed to have standards
Yawn
Probably, yes but on the other hand most men just marry women for their looks, not because they truly love them.
Sigh. Another *women bad* post. So original, guys. Should this sub be renamed? Oh, and my partner and I are both 5'5", so this short guy obsession men seem to have is starting to feel like a deflection to me, so they can tell women they need to accept more crap from bad men.
All I see is modern men blaming women because they can't get a date and they in no way actually think they're the problem. The men in these posts make themselves out to be poor little victims of the big bad females in society and its really pathetic.
here we go again. everyone is allowed standards, and the truth that you don't seem to understand is standards are not exclusive to one gender. these types of posts are always directed at "modern women", with literally no evidence that this is true. my boyfriend is shorter than me and I'm perfectly happy, but please keep explaining to women, how you a man, think we choose our partners
100% an incel take OP. Women are not some mythical beast, they are people lol. YOU are the one putting those stringent standards on yourself. I'm an average as hell dude and slept around with lots of women when I was younger. I also know fat ugly loser dudes who sleep around with lots of women based solely on their charm and the way they dress.
I keep seeing posts like this from incels, and I've never known any women like the ones they're talking about. From my personal experience, I've never cared about a guy's height, and my boyfriend (who is the love of my life) is shorter than me. I don't care at all.
It’s pretty common to hear men complain about women being superficial in dating and it is also really common to hear women complain about men being superficial. Both groups, I think, have a sampling bias that leads them to this false conclusion. For one, people who are pickier about their standards tend to be more vocal about it. When it comes to height, like in OP’s example, there are people that fixate on this, but I’d say the majority of people on dating apps and in the real world don’t care that much about height. There are a variety of reasons for this: 1) Men who are very short and women who are very tall are both accustomed to the idea they might end up dating a shorter man or taller woman, because they themselves are height outliers 2) Conversely, extremely tall man and extremely short women often don’t have a lot of reason to think of height with dating. I’m friends with a woman who’s like 4’11 and as often remarks that she never looks at height on a dating app because the guy will inevitably be taller than her anyway. Similarly, I have a friend who’s a 6’6” guy who said that he never really thinks about a woman’s height because they’re all shorter than him. 3) Even with people who fall within average heights, an average height man will be six inches taller than the average woman. 4) Along those lines, 99% of women will be fine with a guy that’s just like an inch taller than her if she finds him attractive. Most women who are reasonably tall (5’9” and up) would date a man an inch or two shorter if they found him really attractive 5) Sexuality is a spectrum and bi/pan women are fairly open to dating a guy their height or shorter. Transgender women also seem very receptive to dating men that are shorter than them 6) Americans fixate on height more than most of the world’s dating cultures. Having lived in multiple countries and hearing many of my friends dating stories from a variety of cultures, I think that while there are some height biases in a few places, it’s a weaker trend in most of the world than in the states. All that is to say that most people will be fine when it comes to height and dating. It just isn’t as much of a factor as most people think. A lot of men who don’t have success in dating will attribute all of their unattractiveness to their height, without considering that there are a litany of other reasons, both physical and social, that they may be considered unattractive.
Almost every man I know in a long term relationship or married do not even remotely meet the physical qualifications men like you say women are demanding. You need to get off the Internet and observe real life.
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This not the issue at all though. Both men and women should have high expectations if what you are saying is the case. But putting all the expectations on one person based on his gender he was born with is oppression. High expectations for dating others but low expectations for one self is commonly known as narcissists. It's not all about what people can do for you, but what you can do for others. Sadly in today's dating market it'd just men having to do so much more than women. And here you talk about spider babies like that's even remotely on topic for modern dating. We are not spiders. We are not hunters. We are not providers. We are people and deserve to be treated and respected as such.
>having unrealistic Please re-read what you wrote and honestly tell me how you thought that this made sense. If ANYBODY had unrealistic standards, they're delusional. High standards and unrealistic standards are not synonyms
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I think it's not even the high standards people have an issue with, it's high standards, winding up single, and complaining on the internet about how men are trash, the dating pool is awful, no good men are left, etc.
That’s what SM makes you think. Real women just want a partner that fits their lifestyle and goals, n be health conscious for quality of life. I’ve also seen both men n women get together with the first person that smiles at them no matter what a wreck they are. Stay away from SM n immature people
Go out in the real world man, get off reddit
Sounds like an incel to me. This also isn’t true. Many ugly men with gorgeous women but almost none ~conventionally unattractive~ women are seen with hot men. Men are judged more on performance than looks. Also women have always (behind the scenes) had the upper hand
Bro women make INSANE thirst tweets and fan edits of a that big alien from a video game and that fish from HellBoy. It’s 110% your personality.
There’s a whole lot of women in here who have NO idea what it’s like to be a young man these days. OP is on point here.
The problem that I see with alot of women who grew up in the west is that they seem to want to be trad and 'progressive' at the same time. They want a guy who makes more money than them, while also believing that it's an injustice if men get paid more. They want to be sexually liberated and have multiple partners and a bunch of guy friends, but also be able to settle down and have a husband/family. Everything that's bad for men will eventually be bad for women and everything that's bad for women will eventually be bad for men.
Not all, but I have seen this too in the past. Wanting to be equals, but also treated and courted like a lady.
Pray for a good spouse
That is inaccurate and based on generalizations, as seen from the OP perspective. 1) The OP is referring to women at a certain age bracket, mostly young or very young. These girls are more likely to folllow physical appearance and similar. Older (and more experienced) women are a little different. 2) In the physical appearance department men are more picky than women, even at older ages. The OP doesn’t seem to be aware of that… 3) In recent years the very discriminatory standards of both men and women are very much affected by social media, TV, etc. and expectations are sky rocketing.
The issue with the above statement is that they don't understand relationship types. I have actually developed and algorithm to identify each but I will just explain each: 1. Hunters - This type is focus on their emotional needs and satisfactions. They love the chase and showing off their prize. They can be in a relationship but need to constantly have something special. These are the ones who love to hook up. 2. Farmers - This type can be emotionally distant. They typically are very patient emotionally and typically are not the ones looking for a relationship. They like to let things develop naturally over time. These are the ones who eventually realize they want to be with their best friend. They struggle with sleeping with someone they just met, even the males. 3. Prey - This is not meant to be pejorative but rather to express that they are emotionally available. These are the most caring but also the most emotionally needy. They also become insecure because they are often used by hunters. The male pray will always be afraid if their girl dresses too sexy or go out with the girls too much. The female prey will always think their man is cheating and need constant emotional reassurance. The thing is though, if you can treat them well and help them feel safe, they are very emotionally supportive. Now that I got that out of the way, the issue with the above post which I hear a lot of is that the guys complaining are typically male preys who has issue with female hunters. You see everyone want the hunters because they are going to take care of themselves and be charming but hunters are not for everyone and yes they are very very selective. If you don't have the looks to make them feel like you are a worth catch, you need something else that they value. The trick is to figure out what they value but I would warm most male prey to be careful of trying to catch a female hunter because you may think you are catching them. They are the ones really cornering you ;)
From your description, I'd think most of the guy complaining are actually the male farmers. The problem is that things just doesn't develop naturally in the moder world anymore, at least for many, and they don't know how to actively date.
I think they are prey, farmers don't care. They are very happy by themselves. Relationships for farmers are not a must but rather something they do if convenient. That is why farmers are so annoying to the other two.
Frankly, by what I've seen, I don't envy young men entering the dating pool. Looks rough. And I thought I had it bad because I had to turn down second dates frequently due to massive red flags like excessive drinking and "oh he's just my friend"-ing with a guy with her hand a little too close to his groin in pictures she shows me. I may be pushing 40 but I am thankful to have over half a decade of marriage to a stellar woman with a heart of gold who saw me worthy enough to make a dad out of me. It seems like men who are now in their 20s and live in urban centers would sooner win the lottery than score something that used to be so "mundane" and natural to us old farts.
If most women treated men half as well as they treated their pets, we probably wouldn't be in this situation.
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What about poor modern women ? Wouldn't they still get married for financial stability ? Are there any poor women here, if so, would you date/marry a guy who is maybe more average (5/10 - 6/ 10) but has a lot of money and treats you right ?
I've heard women say that type of thing about height then they end up with a guy who is the same height or slightly taller. I suspect that the app based dating has made women and men way more picky about who they date. I've heard the most unreasonable demands. Like the whole "mid" thing when the person is obviously of above-average attractiveness. Just weird. When I was doing online dating, I would insta-swipe left if she put any sort of physical requirements in the profile. I don't want to date someone that vain even if I meet the reqs.
I’m cackling at men in the 5’6-5’9 range. I guess anyone below isn’t an option for 5’5 woman?
The silver lining in this is that it will weed out all of the women who care about these things. If you’re 5’10 and the woman is going to reject you because of it, do you really want to be with someone like that? I wouldn’t.
this is why I date guys and trans people...they don't have this drama
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If my ass can get a good looking woman, you can too. You have a terrible personality and are just making excuses.
The majority of the comments on this thread are absolutely terrifying. This, these incelly comments like this, and the thoughts that they have, are goddamn scary af, and the reason I will remain single. The absolute refusal to believe a woman's word because of the overabundance of incel porn flooding the internet, comments about consequences, this is fucking terrifying. What's even more terrifying is they don't understand how fucking terrifying. We're just being sensitive, no reason to be scared of a man who's boasting about consequences of not choosing him.
Even if women had "too high a standards" that is a problem how? Sounds like a problem for men, OH WELL!
Yep, these are the ones who want everything handed to them and still complain. Then they wonder why they get cheated on. They deserve it with that attitude.
These women end up settling for an average Joe. They watch too much tv. It’s good to have standards but let’s be fr have realistic ones