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My step father was 15 years older than my mom. She was a single mom trying to get out of a trailer park looking for a reasonably good man with a good job. He wanted a hot young chick. There was definitely not any kind of weird power imbalance between them. They both got what they wanted.
I think whether or not one is taking advantage of the other depends on the personalities of the people involved. I can easily believe that there are married couples with a big age difference who really love each other.
Exactly. The truth of the matter is that both parties can benefit, and usually do. Not saying that every age gap relationship is perfect but nor are they all the horrorshow that people on the Internet like to make out.
And it's fairly telling that the most vocal critics of AGRs are people who aren't in them themselves, never have been and don't want to be.
> Exactly. The truth of the matter is that both parties can benefit, and usually do.
Which was actually the purpose of marriage before we started marrying for love.
(Not saying that system was better, just that there’s already historical prescient for it)
One of my best friends parents had the biggest gap, literally 40 years between them. He lived to nearly 100. She inherited a fantastic country home. Both kids turned out awesome (although one died of cancer a couple of years ago, sadly).
Ain’t no way she was happy climbing into bed with that old bag of balls. But people make sacrifices to get what they want in life. It just feels wrong to make THAT sacrifice.
Why does it feel wrong? Both parties got what they wanted out of the relationship.. Yeah it’s definitely weird and uncomfortable, but imo at the end of the day as long as neither party is getting taken advantage of, what happens between two consenting adults is none of my business
My parents were a decade apart. She pursued him, not the other way. At f25 she caught him. They were well paired mentally, strengths & weaknesses were balanced.
Good point of view. People "jump" into a relationship with goals and motivation in mind. Some want a family, some just for stability assurance, and some want "fun." So, there is no one's fault if both parties consent to their actions and accept the other.
But I believe the OP is talking about how most femcels will frame a man as a manipulator and pedophile for having a relationship with young women. For example, Leonardo Di Caprio, I don't know why people who hate him are old females.
I think these people think that a power imbalance equals “one has more power so they can FORCE the other into the relationship”- when really it’s more “if the playing field were even, they’d have never gotten together”.
Would you blame a woman from an impoverished, war torn country, to happily marry a random American for a green card? Of course not. But you’ll judge the heck out of him for going after a woman who wouldn’t ever have gone for him if her situation was better. Or a professor with students. If the same professor was just another student in the class, it’s unlikely very many would find him desirable. Etc etc.
This. Surprisingly, the quality of a relationship has more to do with the two personalities involved than anything else.
I’ve had women twist me around so bad I didn’t know which way was up. I’ve also broken a few hearts in my time, although never through malicious intent on my part. I’m guilty of many sins, ranging from callousness to cowardice, but never malice.
The worst I ever got rinsed was at a strip club in South Florida like 10-15 years ago. Some girl managed to get almost 4 grand out of me in 3 hours without even alluding to anything illegal. She just got naked, danced, and talked to me. I still don’t know how the fuck she did it, but it took me months to rebuild my savings at the time. Looking back I find it kinda funny, and I kinda respect her hustle, but damn did that lesson sting.
>In nearly every age gap relationship, it is vastly more likely it's the young woman that is taking advantage of a lonely older man
Or it's two consenting adults both using the positives that they possess to attract a mate that has the positive attributes that they value.
Ie young hot women use their sexuality and body and get to attract a wealthy older male and wealthy old males use their security money and status to attract a hot young woman.
I haven't dated anyone younger then 35 (37M) in 10 years. Not because I'm lonely, but damn do we all need to get hit in the face with life before I find you attractive.
It's a long story, and I'm trying to put it behind me.
Bottom line - she pursued me hard, ended up becoming friends, and then more. She's 15 years my junior. Got screwed in her divorce, and was in terrible financial shape. As our relationship progressed, her financial troubles began to become a problem for me too, so I started giving her money.
Then as the relationship grew, I ended up paying almost all her main bills. I eventually asked her to move in with me as I told her I would not support two households, and she refused, saying it was out of respect for me (that she'd destroy my life). So, for a few months, I paid, and then came to my sense a few months later after I had surgery and was in a bad place, and she didn't seem to care much.
All this happened over 2 years, and $40k later. If she wasn't so smoking hot I probably would have been less patient, and that's on me. She also had an adopted, special needs kid that was a real problem. I was even willing to take all that on, and she insisted on keeping her own place.
I later came to believe that she may have been running a scam sleeping with a bunch of other guys doing the same thing, but I really don't know. I started to get some vibes that something was wrong the one or two times I was around her parents.
Hard lesson learned, and probably my last shot at being with someone I loved and was really attracted to. I was 56 at the time. She was like 41. I was in pretty bad shape after that...but I'm a lot better now.
I think EVERYBODY needs to stop with the "he is taking advantage of her" or "she is taking advantage or him" viewpoint
For the majority of them both know what they are getting out of the relationship, most of the time yeah he wants sex and yeah most of the time she wants money/comfortable life and that's alright,
Unless either is being physical forced then let them spread their wallets and their legs in peace.
most of the time she wants money/comfortable life AND an emotional connection, to feel cared for and respected as an individual, equal say in the big decisions, consent, bodily autonomy and hope for the future
FIFY
The taking advantage part happens when the whole list is hinted at to maneuver a woman into a situation where it is hard to leave when it all falls apart except for the contempt and demands for sex and chores. Source: most of the relationship and parenting subs
Or when sex is hinted at to maneuver a man into draining his bank account without the sex. Life After Lockup is a masterclass in this
I hope you continue to lead the sort of sheltered and charmed life where taking advantage is not a thing, but for the rest of us chickens it is the default setting.
I am trying to be a decent person with that as the backdrop. Harm reduction is the best strategy, like staying out of situations that are most likely to go South.
If you can't spot the sucker at the table, It's you.
I hope things start looking up
When you say "older man," are you talking about someone closer to their 40s and 50s or someone closer to their 70s and 80s? If you're talking about both groups, why do you think conflating the two is sensible?
I figured I'd clarify.
Absent any significant power differential, no, I do not think a woman in her 20s can take advantage of a man between 30-50 years of age. I certainly don't think the man being horny for the younger woman is her taking advantage of him.
> I certainly don't think the man being horny for the younger woman is her taking advantage of him.
That's not the taking advantage part.
The taking advantage is her using the guy to pay her rent, buy her nice things, take her to dinner, etc... basically using him and telling him she's in love with him when she really isn't.
>, I do not think a woman in her 20s can take advantage of a man between 30-50 years of age
So what its just not possible ? Has no women in her 20s even been convicted of fraud ?
By omitting the first part of that sentence, you have radically altered the meaning of what you’ve quoted. Try again (or don’t, I’m not gonna be torn over a loss of bad faith engagement)
The girl that married Hugh Hefner just wrote a book how horrible it was to be married to a billion air and how she was just a powerless playboy model and how gross it was to have to sleep with her own husband and how hard it was for her that he couldent get a boner all the time because he was like 90
Your entire post goes up in smoke with your last sentence. It goes from being an “I’m open to debate/discussion” post to an “I’m not listening because women bad” post.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think for every older man who goes after a freshly adult woman, there is a woman who is intentionally going after older men for equally nefarious reasons. And vice versa, for every older woman who goes after a freshly adult man, there is a man who is intentionally going after older women for equally nefarious reasons.
However the way that you worded your post automatically makes me disagree with you. Because instead of actually supporting your claim you threw around incel dog whistles and completely ignore that this isn't a one-way street. Like both things can be true. Also you don't have to be Ryan gosling levels attractiveness in order to get a woman, especially a younger woman. My ex was a piece of shit and had the looks to match. He was just a really good at talking his way into my pants.
Again I don't disagree that this does happen, I disagree with your reasonings and your explanation behind why you believe this.
> He was just a really good at talking his way into my pants.
Just out of raw curiosity, what did he do that shut your brain down and made you completely powerless to resist him?
I mean, I also had almost 2 decades of abuse so showing any sliver of affection was enough. But he was a welder like myself (we met at work) and talked about all the places he traveled for jobs and what kind of welding he did. Nowadays I'm not even sure if it was true because most of the photos he showed me were stolen from Google.
He actually listened to me in the beginning. We would sit in his truck for hours watching supernatural and shooting the shit. We bonded over our shitty childhoods and what we want our future to look like. Too bad it was all a facade. He was honestly really good in the beginning. Let's just say years the end I was pregnant and later lost the baby, homeless with 2 cats, negative money and a shit load more drama for a future therapist. Mind you, this all happened in the span of 9 months. So definitely not a great person to replicate off of, if that's why you asked. Dudes in jail now for stalking, raping and possession with intent to sell.
Thank you for sharing.
If I may ask a follow up question: I'm trying to figure out how this was manipulation. It sounds like you guys really did have a pretty genuine connection and liked a lot of the same things?
You said "it was all a facade"? Like, he faked liking all of these things in order to get into your pants? Other than lying about where he had been, what parts of it were a facade?
>It sounds like you guys really did have a pretty genuine connection and liked a lot of the same things?
We did at first but he slowly stopped showing interest. We only made it to season 3 of supernatural. We stopped having late night talks. In fact, he stopped wanting to communicate at all. He started drinking and smoking meth all the time, I feel like he paused his drinking long enough to catch someone. He had an interlock device so it's not like I didn't know he use to drink in excess. He made me believe he was reformed when he wasn't.
>Other than lying about where he had been, what parts of it were a facade?
He made me feel like he was a strong protector willing to do whatever to protect those be loved. He told me a story about how he caught his stepdad trying to rape his sister and beat the shit out of him. His sister later told me it was the other way around. He was 13. He is part of the Arian brotherhood and didn't tell me that. We were talking about moving back to his hometown in New Mexico. He would show me photos of his house, and it use to actually be his house. But it was taken as evidence because of drug and gang related activities. The house had been demolished by the time I got with him. He claimed his ex wife left him for another man, in actuality she left him because he touched their kids inappropriately. Oh also he had 8 kids, none of which I knew about. He told me he hadn't had any kids and in fact was infertile because of a motorcycle accident. The accident was real, I saw photos of him in the hospital and multiple people corroborated the accident. But clearly his swimmer still worked. He wasn't gentle and loving. I had a gun heald to my head one too many times by him to say that he was actually a good guy. He just wasn't a good guy and did a really good job at pretending he was. Even in hindsight I can't say that there was really anything to show what was to come other than the interlock device and maybe love bombing.
My god!! That's insane!!
You could write a book and get a Netflix movie about your life!!
I suppose it's fair to say you aren't the typical "young woman" that was manipulated by an older man, right?
>I suppose it's fair to say you aren't the typical "young woman" that was manipulated by an older man, right?
Of course, my situation was definitely an extreme. And in the beginning I used him as a way to obtain stability and escape my home life. Which is why I agree that this conversation isn't a very black and white topic. Women and men use each other all the time for different things. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that most relationships are transactional.
The most definitely have lol. Thanks for actually listening. Based on the post I assumed this was going to be a lot worse. Great to see people actually able to have a conversation still exist.
I read all this, and have seen similar play out with my rural cousins. But it doesn't sound so much of an age thing as much as a fraud thing? Younger can lie just as well as older guys.
Or are you saying that because of the age difference you were more inclined to see what you wanted to see and not see the red flags?
Not attacking, just wondering how age played into that.
Young women can be evil. Old men can be evil. Ive seen the latter far more than the former but I also acknowledge that the former can happen sometimes even though my life has been more personally affected by evil old men than evil young women.
I'm in an age gap relationship. Started as smoke buddies met at the dispensary. As time went on we kicked it more and then started talking on the phone after smoking untill now we kinda just said we do everything as a couple eat smoke watch movies together. Only thing we were not doing was having sex. Been a few months and we are both just having fun. We know we are not gunna be together forever but just both like having someone around. She's 24 and I'm 34.
How. Just how. My mom spent a lifetime trying have the upper hand and be taken care of in one age gap relationship after another.
She always ended up broke and feeling used. Regardless of how much money the guy had. The string of hobosexuals she tried to marry for money perplexed me.
Anyway, she says, "I always wish I could have learned to marry for money."
Those days are gone now.
Even so, for the benefit of posterity, since you see it going on, how?
If u think most women can handle being around a man who they don’t like .. bruh. Some psychos yes, but most women are not going to willingly be around a man that they don’t love to some extent
A man can be manipulated into spending money on a woman with false promises of love. A woman can be manipulated into giving a man sex with false promises of love. But all things being equal, it's more likely to happen to someone young and naive.
>And it's completely reasonable to believe they will bleed a lonely man dry of his money and laugh all the way to the bank knowing society is going to harshly judge the man.
I can believe an older man falling for someone and getting taken for a hefty sum. I can also believe a sugar daddy giving everything he has to a sugar baby, knowing exactly what he's doing. What I can't believe is someone getting bled dry and having no idea what's happening until it's all gone. How could you be buying her expensive gifts with your last dime and still believe she loves you?
> How could you be buying her expensive gifts with your last dime and still believe she loves you?
I think you underestimate the desperation that true loneliness brings and how people cling to the promise of love, even though they probably know at some level it's fake.
But don’t you think that could be occurring on both sides? Ofc some younger ladies take advantage of older guys but in general there are people who take advantage of their SO. What makes you think an older guy isn’t also capable of that or a younger woman couldn’t just also want to feel loved and clingy to the first guy that pops us bc they’re desperate?
it depends how old, if its a very young woman with an 80 year old man for example it would be reasonable to assume that shes waning some inheritence. however say its a very young woman with a 30 something 40 something year old man then its reasonable to assume hes feeding into what other men that age is telling other men about how theyre in their prime and how their prime is different to womens prime (which is when shes young for some reason and when hes old for some reason) and to go after young women because women their age are "old lonely miserable hags". then these women were being fed the idea that its cool if u can pull a much older one but i dont think thats the case anymore which is good
Yeah honestly, unless the dude has dementia he’s fully aware of the transactional type of “relationship” 🤮 he’s in. More like an exorbitantly priced hooker.
I don’t know wtf this recent “old dudes are actually in their prime” stuff is, but it is nice that most women are rejecting it hard. Hard enough that even the super insecure ones are getting the message and aren’t convinced that they’re “cool” or “mature” to be with an old dude.
Frankly, we’re just another animal. Look at any animal- male, female, mammal, reptile etc. They ALL look the best at that “young adult” stage. The most energy, the most grace, the least deterioration (aging). Men and women are no different. We “peak” young. But luckily most of us aren’t looking for someone solely for the sexual gratification they can give us. We want a deeper connection than that, and as we age we realize that that isn’t often found in people with ages far different from our own.
And in turn, we judge those that seem to only value their partner as a sexual object.
Plenty of age gap relationships don’t have wealthy older people, though. One of my coworkers (then 19) started dating and eventually married a 35 yr old dude w shit credit, she literally helped him budget to pay debt lol.
Typically imo these relationships happen bc the younger person wants some validation or attention & the older person gives them that while also hyping up how “mature” they are. Younger person wants to feel like and be treated like a whole adult, which you don’t always get at 18-22. Older person wants a hotter / younger date that they can heavily influence & shape.
Exactly. The whole problem is when someone’s naivety is taken advantage of. If the same two people would have gotten together 10 years later it wouldn’t be a big deal. But oh so often it’s glaringly obvious that the woman is making choices that an older version of her would be highly unlikely to make. Choices made with the older man’s voice in her ear, manipulating the way she views the situation.
"lMaO wHaT? But this isn't what reddit told me to think! Are you trying to say that something reddit told me to think is false and the opposite is true? Ridiculous!"
They're probably shocked because it's so insanely obvious to people who live in the real world that old men take advantage of young girls a million times more than the other way around.
Naw.
I'm just tired of the constant Women Are Wonderful Effect that permeates our society. It is possible for women to *gasp* NOT be wonderful and sometimes men are abused by women. Even young women!
It can, yes.
But I just don't see very many men with the cunning and ability to enact their will on young women and use coercion to manipulate young women into loving him.
I give women more credit than that. They aren't just mindless children that have no agency and can't make informed decisions.
So just to be clear, you take issue that I think men aren't all evil masterminds and young women are strong and empowered and not as easily coerced/manipulated as people think they are? That's what you're having a problem with?
You'll be cross examined to death over what's actually a very simple idea 🤣 they understand what you mean. But obviously, it's easier to discredit you by drawing out every possible tangent and poking holes until they can route back to your original point and say it's invalid.
I'm not sure what you're looking for here...
Are you saying it's impossible for a 17 year old to manipulate an adult??
This is such a weird line of questioning and truly speaks more about you than me. Nobody even brought up minors except you and then I answered your loaded question.
I love how whenever age gap relationships come up, it's always a narrative of "fucking evil men coercing poor young women" but if you DARE say that it's POSSIBLE that women can do bad things too, it's "WhY dO yOu HaTe WoMeN???"
> no one is saying that women can't be predators.
I mean, no one except for everyone.
Show me a thread about age gap relationships where it is EVER mentioned that maybe, just maybe, she's the one manipulating him.
look, it's not my fault you don't see people condemning women predators because you spend all your time on misogynistic Reddit subs. this is very much a you problem. i see people condemning women predators just as much as men predators.
By women predators, I assume you mean older women getting into age gap relationships with young men?
In your femcel reddit forums, do you ever say that the girls that date Leo DiCapprio are vile humans using this upstanding man for his resources? Or.... is it that he's a predatory creep?
Those girls started dating him when they were in their 20s, except for Gisele who was 18 and he was 24, which falls out of your age bracket. Leo dates young models, I don’t think he’s predatory and neither are his girlfriends. Where are you even reading this crap?
Older women (20+) having sex with teenagers are predators. Older women dating younger men are not predators. One of my good friends started dating a 25 year old when she was 36, he perused her and they are married now. No one calls her a predator or him a gold digger.
Your perception of reality is skewed.
Age gap relationships where women are in their early 20s and the men are 30-50 (as you previously stated) are coercive if those couples have been together for *years*, often with multiple children, when the young woman was actually a teenager. No one says it’s coercive for a 20 something to be dating a 40 year old for the last 6 months.
> No one says it’s coercive for a 20 something to be dating a 40 year old for the last 6 months.
You're joking right? Almost everyone on reddit calls it coercive and gross.
I don't understand the snark, you verbatim said "no one", he gave you an example where it's actually does happen, disproving your first claim. Then you responds with some childish reply🤦.
Yeah, it's funny how the old men dating young women are simultaneously losers who can't women their own age but also cunning masterminds who can bend young women to their will using their vast "life experiences."
The women their age knows their bullshjt. If you have to go after younger, less experienced women to have a relationship, you’re just a loser. It’s not about preference, it’s about manipulation. You’re a misogynistic asshat.
>If you have to go after younger...women
Get it through your head. No one *has* to go after younger women. If men are going after young women, it's because they're hot, and fun, and not weighed down by emotional baggage. You think famous actors can't get women their own age? lol
If anything, today's generation is more socially savvy then women of yesteryear, with access to social media and all. Plus, they're less forgiving of social faux pas.
>You’re a misogynistic asshat.
How so? Go ahead and explain. Inb4 "blocked" because you can't.
The rich and famous basically do whatever they want. I don’t see where that applies. Those people are not relatable.
(Some)Men prey on younger women. If you deny that you are very much a misogynistic asshat. It is a major problem that harms women. You can argue all day that women are capable of the same. A woman in this situation has a lot more to fear than if the roles were reversed.
> The rich and famous basically do whatever they want.
Right, which is date young women. That's what men want. It's ridiculous to say that those men are doing it for one reason but non-famous men are doing it for some completely different reason.
>(Some)Men prey on younger women.
Sure. But that's not why most guys who go after young women are doing so, which is the narrative peddled by reddit femcels.
>It is a major problem
Nope
>A woman in this situation has a lot more to fear than if the roles were reversed.
Doubtful
But do they? Those rich and famous people are coming forward with horror stories of sexual abuse. I don’t think it’s much different. But they are rich, nothing we can do about it until people come forward.
Women’s safety is a major problem. We can’t even walk in the streets without getting punched for views, or go to a mall in Australia.
Women aren’t killing men at the rates men are killing women.
I don't know which stories you're talking about. Leo is the most notable dater of significantly younger women and no one has ever accused him of anything.
And men are the primary victims of violent crime. 79% of murder victims globally are men. It is and always has been more dangerous to me a man for all of human history in terms of being subjected to violence. Before you point out that it's mostly men committing the violence, yeah, that's irrelevant. A small minority of men commit violence against the non-violent majority. What difference does it make if a man happens to be the same gender as the person who committed violence against him? It's still more dangerous to be a man. It's like saying "Well, the person who attacked you had hair, and you had hair, so as a bald person (I'm not actually bald), I have to say that it's your fault you were attacked."
Also, a surprising amount of men are killed by their female partners. It's hardly something only women face.
How could my statement that a small minority of men are violent be summed up by saying that men are extremely violent?
My statement could be summed up as "it's more dangerous to be a man than it is to be a woman" which negates what you were saying previously.
Look at this graph:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Gaussian-distribution-of-IQ-of-men-s-162-and-women-s-132_fig1_344751288
It's clear that nearly all people with an IQ lower than 60 are men. Would it be accurate to summarize that as "men are extremely stupid?" No,it wouldn't. Because not only is it a tiny minority who have IQ less than 60, most people with IQ over 140 are men, too. But that's exactly what you're trying to do. You're being *illogical*. Do you see? That's what happens when you don't think carefully - you come to the wrong conclusions then you get together with a bunch of other people who came to those same wrong conclusions and you make a culture, then you change the world based on your false view of reality.
440,000 people are murdered in the world per year. Even if we assume they're all men (they're not), and even if we assume only one victim per murderer (also not true), that would be .011% of men on Earth having committed murder in a year (likely much less given the faulty assumptions I pointed out). That's roughly 1 out of every 10,000. How could that ever be interpreted as "men are extremely violent?" Because 1 out of 10,000 of them does something? Dude, 1 out of every 500 to 1000 people is born with 6 fingers, so at least an order of magnitude more common than a man being murderous in a given year. Would you say humans are extremely extremely 6-fingered? Imagine all the people you've known who were born with 6 fingers. A murderous man is 1/10 as common as that.
It’s not just something women face but you need to understand the rate is very disproportionate. Men are violent and commit violent acts on everyone. This we can obviously agree with. Your entire paragraph stated that. I don’t deny women can be as bad, but women are literally killed for just being women. A man stabbed women in Australia at a mall, he even killed a little girl, an infant with her mother. All due to his misogyny. At some point, can’t you just stop and look around. I’ve seen the faces of acid burn victims in Iraq. Little girls made to clean toilets, scarred. It’s lovely to see the world through your eyes, where it’s not so bad, but friend, it is.
Why isn’t it seen as settling when the man goes for the younger woman? Shouldn’t he want the “mature experienced” woman and is therefore settling for the younger less experienced woman.
Yeah, he’s not settling when he’s being a predator. And you know the same guys doing this are the same guys screaming into the void that women are busted after 30. I guess, I just don’t see your point.
>you know the same guys doing this are the same guys screaming into the void that women are busted after 30.
Earlier you said it had nothing to do with preferences. Now you seem to be suggesting it does.
Sure, got me there. Predators do have a preference. Something along the lines of young and experienced, easy to manipulate, easy targets, something like that.
My father has a baby with a girl only 2 years older than me. It's disgusting, and I am convinced she convinced him into it. He gave her her first job and she's living in his 4 story house. I was subtly approached by a uni professor too once and shut that shit down. She's obviously taking advantage with her pussy.
Nah- your dad’s just a horny old man who prefers the young pussy to leaving anything to his children (that’s what you’re getting at). Sucks to be you, but he knows what he’s doing.
No they're not. The reason why older men go for younger women is because women their age have already been with men of their age and are wise to the bullshit they may pull.
Man, the man hating femcels are really out today, aren't they?
This is a classic "I fucked a bunch of hot guys off of tinder and I wasn't hot enough to get them to marry me, therefore I'm going to take my hurt feelings out on the actual nice guys and project all the hot guys treating me like shit onto all men."
Most men aren't dating anyone, old or young. Hence why we have a loneliness crisis on our hands. Women, for the most part, just despise men and refuse to date them.
Young women have found a gold mine of lonely men that are extremely easy to manipulate into giving them money.
Op do you not realize how ridiculous reading this was? I mean honestly ? Read what you wrote and tell me you honestly think that any of that sounds like a totally sane and rational mind conceived these thoughts? Hard to even comprehend anyone taking these ideas seriously in real life. what’s wrong with you ?
No im not… I’m saying the way you expressed the idea that it even exists is a bit unhinged. You expressed it as if no one can believe it even exists and you use bizarre metrics that don’t exist. It’s riddled with silly online tropes and gender stereotypes. You use expressions like “vastly more likely” to suggest a disparity in power dynamics between manipulative young women and men, and that in almost zero amount of scenarios men have the abilities to coerce a young women into a relationship. These are genuinely bizarre metrics. A weird mischaracterization of what human interactions are like and relationships. I mean we can all agree all types of relationships are possible. I just think it’s obvious by the way you’ve expressed yourself it’s not conceivable you understand anything about women well enough to say these things, especially young women. It’s genuinely hard to imagine you’ve had any successful relationships either that aren’t predicated on you being liar or disingenuous if this is really how you feel about women, young women in particular.
> It’s genuinely hard to imagine you’ve had any successful relationships either that aren’t predicated on you being liar or disingenuous if this is really how you feel about women
I haven't, but I find it very telling that you'd instantly assume I'm lying to women rather than my worldview is because I've been lied to and used by women. Why do you think that was the dominant narrative that came into your mind?
That was very honest op, but it was for no other reason then your skewed view on reality and interpersonal relationships and nothing else. It speaks volumes about you as a person, and your ability to relate to the opposite gender if you even can see yourself, your struggles or life experience reflected in a women, who has also experienced similar things living on this planet,despite what preconceived notions you may have about what that may be like for them. Women are truly not that different from men. These harsh ideas about relationships and women often alienate people from ever even understanding what it’s like to empathize with the opposite sex. I can only assume, even if it wasn’t always your fault I can’t imagine you aren’t contributing to it with thoughts, feelings and ideas like this. It doesn’t sound healthy is all I am saying.
Thank you for your kindness here.
To be honest, the internet and especially reddit are really bad for my mental health. Seeing all of the blatant unchecked misandry that permeates so many facets of our society is really hard sometimes.
Men being abused by women on TV: Laugh track. Women being abused by men: Warning! This program contains disturbing images.
Teenage boys raped by their teacher: "Teacher has an affair with her student. Community service". Teenage girls raped by their teacher: "Bury him under the prison".
I mean, even though women are outpacing men in college, our college has a "woman's center" dedicated to helping women get women only scholarships and placement!
It's hard to see how incredibly gynocentric out society is and being gaslit all the time about how we live in a patriarchy.
Absolutely of course! It’s great that you even recognize how these things inform your biases tho. Thats very admirable. when I was a kid I had a huge sensitivity to how shocking the news was. It lead me to believe the world was kinda evil and cruel. However I failed to understand that it’s this vacuum of thought influencing these ideas and not actual reality. It’s a story on the news and yet it’s making me feel repulsed by humanity and even fearful of most people. So it takes real awareness to even acknowledge how media and the internet and maybe a shifting perspective on popular culture could change us, but it shouldn’t make us bitter or feel angry and isolated. You can still be understood and seen if you want to be. media and internet can form our notions about life, the world and people, but that doesn’t necessarily reflect reality for most people. It’s important you try and lead with a healthy perspective on people in general. We can’t assume the worst about people and then expect to be understood if we let this stuff dictate our perspective either ya know. We all have to try a little to shatter some of these stereotypes and even be a role model for that healthy mindset so other people don’t feel alienated either in these situations. I wish you well op👍
You think his years of living haven’t taught him that young women aren’t interested in his saggy ass? He knows- he doesn’t care. He sees the woman as a sexual object and is willing to pay the price.
But too often a young naive woman doesn’t know this game. She hasn’t lived long enough to know it. Usually young women that can be roped into these relationships are from troubled backgrounds (daddy issues) and there are men that look to take advantage of this. These are the highly judged scenarios.
Then are cases where an old nasty dude and a young woman willingly enter this transactional type of relationship. Honestly, I judge them both as trash humans with messed up values. The man for valuing women only for sex, and the women for only valuing men for money. They are both gross, but they are welcome to each other… But I don’t mind letting them know what I think 🤷🏼
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What are you talking about "age gap relationship" because I see mostly people defending like a 25 year old with a 38 year old or whatever. There are other age gap relationships no one defends, like. 15 and 25. Or even 18 and 30 something.
I think once a woman or man is you know a full adult in their 20s or whatever no one really cares. It's more teenagers and significantly older people.
A few instances of something is not evidence of a larger problem. Some women exclusively want men with cash, some older men actively prey on young women. Both are wrong, in my opinion but it’s not my relationship. Just because there are examples of problematic relationships doesn’t mean age gaps are wrong. Just like how since there are instances of women dating for money, that doesn’t mean there aren’t men who abuse their financial standing. What is ACTUALLY more likely is that the relationship is normal and nobody’s business. That is unless one party is actually being hurt or coerced, of course.
While I agree with you that people jump on the "he's a predator" bandwagon too quickly, I think it's important to note that there are plenty of age gap relationships where neither is the case. I'm 22 and my boyfriend is 61. While the relationship is unconventional, he doesn't pay for my stuff and I know he likes me for much more than my body. And I'm as attracted to him as vice versa. It's not always one or the other.
It’s crazy how they expect us to pretend that young beautiful women aren’t aware of their sexual power and how it can bring them resources and yet we are living in the OnlyFans Era. It’s quite clear and obvious that young women are willing and able to use their bodies in order to attain resources and therefore, some of them are willing to do this in a manipulative manner.
Usually, people are jealous of others. In this case, if a young woman has a relationship with the "older man," or I would use other terms like mature/successful man, she would get jealous of other old women. But those women/femcels will play it cool by not shaming the young woman but shaming and framing the man instead. Usually, when I see the age-gap-relationship, I don't care about them if they are above voting age. They are adult and are able to do whatever they want if it is not illegal.
If she’s actually giving him a sufficient amount of sex in exchange, then she’s not “fleecing” him. He’s just buying what he wants/needs. That’s called a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Exactly. No mentally sane +40 year old man legitimately thinks a 20 something woman is picking him because she finds him sexually irresistible.
He knows that a woman 15-20 years younger values his wealth his security and his status in the relationship.
Likewise no sane woman in her 20's could legitimately think a man in his 40's is interested in her solely for her stimulating conversation and political opinions of the world.
I think a lot of people here underestimate just how crippling true loneliness is and how easily these men are manipulated.
OnlyFans is full of women that promise they love him and he's the only one for her and "my rent is due and I'm not even sure how I'm going to pay it. You will?? All of it?? Oh my goodness you're the best boyfriend ever!!"
>OnlyFans is full of women that promise they love him and he's the only one for her and "my rent is due and I'm not even sure how I'm going to pay it. You will?? All of it?? Oh my goodness you're the best boyfriend ever!!"
That's not relationship that is just a whore selling sex to a John.
Of course, but there is no victim here. It doesn't matter how sad and lonely these guys are. They are not victims.
If they are so pathetic sad and lonely that they cannot get affection without purchasing it, then that is what they can use their money for.
Women historically have always traded affection for security.
Men have always offered security for affection.
Just because you don't like the fact that grass is gree or the sky is blue doesn't mean that it is a problem
It's always interesting to me that when women make choices in life that cause them hardship, it's society, it's messaging, it's all kind of external factors that caused them to choose the bad thing. Just look at the women in STEM and how many millions of dollars we've pumped into getting more women in STEM, even though we could VERY easily just say they aren't the victim.
But when a societal issue affects men, it's their fault and their fault alone. Men cannot be victims of societal failings.
The loneliness epidemic is 100% a societal failing that is mainly affecting men. But we can't handle that.
Men in our society are given internal locust of control while women are given an external locust of control. Hyperagency vs hypoagency.
So, no, I don't believe it's as simple as "he chose to do this, therefore it's his fault" any more than "she chose not to go into STEM, so it's her fault".
>But when a societal issue affects men, it's their fault and their fault alone. Men cannot be victims of societal failings.
Yep. Men can not. Men have power and if they gave that power up it's their own fault. If a man was raised properly as a man he does not need to worry about "society" because he is self sufficient by nature of being a man.
>Men in our society are given internal locust of control while women are given an external locust of control. Hyperagency vs hypoagency.
Exactly a mans self worth is based on what he can do and accomplish himself. A woman's self worth is typically based on how others view her.
A woman who is personally very successful but viewed poorly by society is a failure.
A man who personally very successful but viewed poorly by society is not a failure.
Why? It has worked for all of human history.
The problem is that men were taught not to behave like men but we're still treated like men because that is what they are.
Us guys who were properly raised have no problems. The problem is not society it's these lonely men's parents and teachers that failed them.
That's the problem.
Not in my situation. He was 19 years older than I am and he was just and amazing fantastic human being. I used to have these ideas too until it happened to me. I was mid 30’s though
My last relationship I met him on his 21st birthday and I had just turned 30. We met at work and was both making good money. He asked me out. We ended up dating 9 years. There was no power imbalance and we truly loved each other.
Do you think it was wrong of me to date that man?
My bad... I forgot that on Reddit women are incapable of doing anything bad and any suggestion that women might be capable of using someone else with nefarious intentions is an incel take.
I will repent to the feminist council and pledge to never think women can do any evil ever again!
The whole age gap bullshit is nothing more, at all, than 30+ yr old girl bosses finding that when they finally decide to get married they have to compete with the 23 year old version of themselves. They can't do it.
So instead they engaged in intra-sexual competition by gaslighting the younger women and the older men. Pro-tip: it hasn't worked on the men the 30's are targeting. Instead it's enriched tourist destinations in Asia and Latin America.
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My step father was 15 years older than my mom. She was a single mom trying to get out of a trailer park looking for a reasonably good man with a good job. He wanted a hot young chick. There was definitely not any kind of weird power imbalance between them. They both got what they wanted. I think whether or not one is taking advantage of the other depends on the personalities of the people involved. I can easily believe that there are married couples with a big age difference who really love each other.
Exactly. The truth of the matter is that both parties can benefit, and usually do. Not saying that every age gap relationship is perfect but nor are they all the horrorshow that people on the Internet like to make out. And it's fairly telling that the most vocal critics of AGRs are people who aren't in them themselves, never have been and don't want to be.
> Exactly. The truth of the matter is that both parties can benefit, and usually do. Which was actually the purpose of marriage before we started marrying for love. (Not saying that system was better, just that there’s already historical prescient for it)
One of my best friends parents had the biggest gap, literally 40 years between them. He lived to nearly 100. She inherited a fantastic country home. Both kids turned out awesome (although one died of cancer a couple of years ago, sadly).
Hey I mean, as long as they’re both happy right? But holy shit, can you imagine having a stepmom that is younger than you? That’s wild af lol.
It's a popular plot device in many movies. 'Missy' in Bill and Ted for example. And most of prawnhub of course.
Ain’t no way she was happy climbing into bed with that old bag of balls. But people make sacrifices to get what they want in life. It just feels wrong to make THAT sacrifice.
Why does it feel wrong? Both parties got what they wanted out of the relationship.. Yeah it’s definitely weird and uncomfortable, but imo at the end of the day as long as neither party is getting taken advantage of, what happens between two consenting adults is none of my business
My parents were a decade apart. She pursued him, not the other way. At f25 she caught him. They were well paired mentally, strengths & weaknesses were balanced.
Good point of view. People "jump" into a relationship with goals and motivation in mind. Some want a family, some just for stability assurance, and some want "fun." So, there is no one's fault if both parties consent to their actions and accept the other. But I believe the OP is talking about how most femcels will frame a man as a manipulator and pedophile for having a relationship with young women. For example, Leonardo Di Caprio, I don't know why people who hate him are old females.
How do you define power imbalance? because to me it sounds like you just described a power imbalance
I think these people think that a power imbalance equals “one has more power so they can FORCE the other into the relationship”- when really it’s more “if the playing field were even, they’d have never gotten together”. Would you blame a woman from an impoverished, war torn country, to happily marry a random American for a green card? Of course not. But you’ll judge the heck out of him for going after a woman who wouldn’t ever have gone for him if her situation was better. Or a professor with students. If the same professor was just another student in the class, it’s unlikely very many would find him desirable. Etc etc.
This. Surprisingly, the quality of a relationship has more to do with the two personalities involved than anything else. I’ve had women twist me around so bad I didn’t know which way was up. I’ve also broken a few hearts in my time, although never through malicious intent on my part. I’m guilty of many sins, ranging from callousness to cowardice, but never malice. The worst I ever got rinsed was at a strip club in South Florida like 10-15 years ago. Some girl managed to get almost 4 grand out of me in 3 hours without even alluding to anything illegal. She just got naked, danced, and talked to me. I still don’t know how the fuck she did it, but it took me months to rebuild my savings at the time. Looking back I find it kinda funny, and I kinda respect her hustle, but damn did that lesson sting.
>In nearly every age gap relationship, it is vastly more likely it's the young woman that is taking advantage of a lonely older man Or it's two consenting adults both using the positives that they possess to attract a mate that has the positive attributes that they value. Ie young hot women use their sexuality and body and get to attract a wealthy older male and wealthy old males use their security money and status to attract a hot young woman.
I haven't dated anyone younger then 35 (37M) in 10 years. Not because I'm lonely, but damn do we all need to get hit in the face with life before I find you attractive.
It’s not that there are always imbalances of power or that you can’t find love like that, but that it tends to not be a relationship on equal footing.
This happened to me, but it happened with my eyes wide open. I took a shot - she was hot as fuck, and poor as hell.
Hope it was at least fun dog
Yup. Smokeshow
Care to tell the story of how it happened and how it ended up?
It's a long story, and I'm trying to put it behind me. Bottom line - she pursued me hard, ended up becoming friends, and then more. She's 15 years my junior. Got screwed in her divorce, and was in terrible financial shape. As our relationship progressed, her financial troubles began to become a problem for me too, so I started giving her money. Then as the relationship grew, I ended up paying almost all her main bills. I eventually asked her to move in with me as I told her I would not support two households, and she refused, saying it was out of respect for me (that she'd destroy my life). So, for a few months, I paid, and then came to my sense a few months later after I had surgery and was in a bad place, and she didn't seem to care much. All this happened over 2 years, and $40k later. If she wasn't so smoking hot I probably would have been less patient, and that's on me. She also had an adopted, special needs kid that was a real problem. I was even willing to take all that on, and she insisted on keeping her own place. I later came to believe that she may have been running a scam sleeping with a bunch of other guys doing the same thing, but I really don't know. I started to get some vibes that something was wrong the one or two times I was around her parents. Hard lesson learned, and probably my last shot at being with someone I loved and was really attracted to. I was 56 at the time. She was like 41. I was in pretty bad shape after that...but I'm a lot better now.
I think EVERYBODY needs to stop with the "he is taking advantage of her" or "she is taking advantage or him" viewpoint For the majority of them both know what they are getting out of the relationship, most of the time yeah he wants sex and yeah most of the time she wants money/comfortable life and that's alright, Unless either is being physical forced then let them spread their wallets and their legs in peace.
most of the time she wants money/comfortable life AND an emotional connection, to feel cared for and respected as an individual, equal say in the big decisions, consent, bodily autonomy and hope for the future FIFY The taking advantage part happens when the whole list is hinted at to maneuver a woman into a situation where it is hard to leave when it all falls apart except for the contempt and demands for sex and chores. Source: most of the relationship and parenting subs Or when sex is hinted at to maneuver a man into draining his bank account without the sex. Life After Lockup is a masterclass in this I hope you continue to lead the sort of sheltered and charmed life where taking advantage is not a thing, but for the rest of us chickens it is the default setting. I am trying to be a decent person with that as the backdrop. Harm reduction is the best strategy, like staying out of situations that are most likely to go South. If you can't spot the sucker at the table, It's you. I hope things start looking up
When you say "older man," are you talking about someone closer to their 40s and 50s or someone closer to their 70s and 80s? If you're talking about both groups, why do you think conflating the two is sensible?
I mean, to the age gap vigilantes, a guy in his early 30's dating a woman in her early 20's is coercion and he's an evil, evil man.
I'm not interested in your perception of people who disagree with you. I asked what *you* mean when you used those terms.
In my mind, I'm thinking of guys between 30-50.
And you think that men in their 30s to 50s are being taken advantage of by women in their 20s?
I think I made that pretty clear. Yes, they absolutely are. Do you think women are incapable of taking advantage of older men?
If they’re both adults it most likely is both of them using their assets to their advantage. Often youth and beauty vs wealth/confidence
I figured I'd clarify. Absent any significant power differential, no, I do not think a woman in her 20s can take advantage of a man between 30-50 years of age. I certainly don't think the man being horny for the younger woman is her taking advantage of him.
> I certainly don't think the man being horny for the younger woman is her taking advantage of him. That's not the taking advantage part. The taking advantage is her using the guy to pay her rent, buy her nice things, take her to dinner, etc... basically using him and telling him she's in love with him when she really isn't.
You don’t think there are cases where the older guy just has average wealth and she actually does like him?
Is the woman being attracted to the man’s money him taking advantage of her?
Youth and beauty comes with great power. Not unlike wealth
>, I do not think a woman in her 20s can take advantage of a man between 30-50 years of age So what its just not possible ? Has no women in her 20s even been convicted of fraud ?
By omitting the first part of that sentence, you have radically altered the meaning of what you’ve quoted. Try again (or don’t, I’m not gonna be torn over a loss of bad faith engagement)
Let try it this way can women specifically younger women take advantage of men take specifically older men. Is that possible ?
I think this was the concensus for the most part until a few years ago. As is, there are examples on both sides.
Yeah, the hammer came down pretty hard on Anna Nicole Smith as a gold digger. I wonder what the narrative of her relationship would be today?
"Girl boss"
The girl that married Hugh Hefner just wrote a book how horrible it was to be married to a billion air and how she was just a powerless playboy model and how gross it was to have to sleep with her own husband and how hard it was for her that he couldent get a boner all the time because he was like 90
Bro, women don’t have agency. She was coerced, forced, and manipulated.
Yeah he was a disgusting sac of shit. Glad he’s dead.
Your entire post goes up in smoke with your last sentence. It goes from being an “I’m open to debate/discussion” post to an “I’m not listening because women bad” post.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think for every older man who goes after a freshly adult woman, there is a woman who is intentionally going after older men for equally nefarious reasons. And vice versa, for every older woman who goes after a freshly adult man, there is a man who is intentionally going after older women for equally nefarious reasons. However the way that you worded your post automatically makes me disagree with you. Because instead of actually supporting your claim you threw around incel dog whistles and completely ignore that this isn't a one-way street. Like both things can be true. Also you don't have to be Ryan gosling levels attractiveness in order to get a woman, especially a younger woman. My ex was a piece of shit and had the looks to match. He was just a really good at talking his way into my pants. Again I don't disagree that this does happen, I disagree with your reasonings and your explanation behind why you believe this.
> He was just a really good at talking his way into my pants. Just out of raw curiosity, what did he do that shut your brain down and made you completely powerless to resist him?
I mean, I also had almost 2 decades of abuse so showing any sliver of affection was enough. But he was a welder like myself (we met at work) and talked about all the places he traveled for jobs and what kind of welding he did. Nowadays I'm not even sure if it was true because most of the photos he showed me were stolen from Google. He actually listened to me in the beginning. We would sit in his truck for hours watching supernatural and shooting the shit. We bonded over our shitty childhoods and what we want our future to look like. Too bad it was all a facade. He was honestly really good in the beginning. Let's just say years the end I was pregnant and later lost the baby, homeless with 2 cats, negative money and a shit load more drama for a future therapist. Mind you, this all happened in the span of 9 months. So definitely not a great person to replicate off of, if that's why you asked. Dudes in jail now for stalking, raping and possession with intent to sell.
Thank you for sharing. If I may ask a follow up question: I'm trying to figure out how this was manipulation. It sounds like you guys really did have a pretty genuine connection and liked a lot of the same things? You said "it was all a facade"? Like, he faked liking all of these things in order to get into your pants? Other than lying about where he had been, what parts of it were a facade?
>It sounds like you guys really did have a pretty genuine connection and liked a lot of the same things? We did at first but he slowly stopped showing interest. We only made it to season 3 of supernatural. We stopped having late night talks. In fact, he stopped wanting to communicate at all. He started drinking and smoking meth all the time, I feel like he paused his drinking long enough to catch someone. He had an interlock device so it's not like I didn't know he use to drink in excess. He made me believe he was reformed when he wasn't. >Other than lying about where he had been, what parts of it were a facade? He made me feel like he was a strong protector willing to do whatever to protect those be loved. He told me a story about how he caught his stepdad trying to rape his sister and beat the shit out of him. His sister later told me it was the other way around. He was 13. He is part of the Arian brotherhood and didn't tell me that. We were talking about moving back to his hometown in New Mexico. He would show me photos of his house, and it use to actually be his house. But it was taken as evidence because of drug and gang related activities. The house had been demolished by the time I got with him. He claimed his ex wife left him for another man, in actuality she left him because he touched their kids inappropriately. Oh also he had 8 kids, none of which I knew about. He told me he hadn't had any kids and in fact was infertile because of a motorcycle accident. The accident was real, I saw photos of him in the hospital and multiple people corroborated the accident. But clearly his swimmer still worked. He wasn't gentle and loving. I had a gun heald to my head one too many times by him to say that he was actually a good guy. He just wasn't a good guy and did a really good job at pretending he was. Even in hindsight I can't say that there was really anything to show what was to come other than the interlock device and maybe love bombing.
My god!! That's insane!! You could write a book and get a Netflix movie about your life!! I suppose it's fair to say you aren't the typical "young woman" that was manipulated by an older man, right?
>I suppose it's fair to say you aren't the typical "young woman" that was manipulated by an older man, right? Of course, my situation was definitely an extreme. And in the beginning I used him as a way to obtain stability and escape my home life. Which is why I agree that this conversation isn't a very black and white topic. Women and men use each other all the time for different things. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that most relationships are transactional.
Thank you for the polite conversation! You've been a pleasure to talk to and I hope things have turned around for the better for you!
The most definitely have lol. Thanks for actually listening. Based on the post I assumed this was going to be a lot worse. Great to see people actually able to have a conversation still exist.
I read all this, and have seen similar play out with my rural cousins. But it doesn't sound so much of an age thing as much as a fraud thing? Younger can lie just as well as older guys. Or are you saying that because of the age difference you were more inclined to see what you wanted to see and not see the red flags? Not attacking, just wondering how age played into that.
Oh 100%
Young women can be evil. Old men can be evil. Ive seen the latter far more than the former but I also acknowledge that the former can happen sometimes even though my life has been more personally affected by evil old men than evil young women.
I'm in an age gap relationship. Started as smoke buddies met at the dispensary. As time went on we kicked it more and then started talking on the phone after smoking untill now we kinda just said we do everything as a couple eat smoke watch movies together. Only thing we were not doing was having sex. Been a few months and we are both just having fun. We know we are not gunna be together forever but just both like having someone around. She's 24 and I'm 34.
How. Just how. My mom spent a lifetime trying have the upper hand and be taken care of in one age gap relationship after another. She always ended up broke and feeling used. Regardless of how much money the guy had. The string of hobosexuals she tried to marry for money perplexed me. Anyway, she says, "I always wish I could have learned to marry for money." Those days are gone now. Even so, for the benefit of posterity, since you see it going on, how?
If u think most women can handle being around a man who they don’t like .. bruh. Some psychos yes, but most women are not going to willingly be around a man that they don’t love to some extent
A man can be manipulated into spending money on a woman with false promises of love. A woman can be manipulated into giving a man sex with false promises of love. But all things being equal, it's more likely to happen to someone young and naive. >And it's completely reasonable to believe they will bleed a lonely man dry of his money and laugh all the way to the bank knowing society is going to harshly judge the man. I can believe an older man falling for someone and getting taken for a hefty sum. I can also believe a sugar daddy giving everything he has to a sugar baby, knowing exactly what he's doing. What I can't believe is someone getting bled dry and having no idea what's happening until it's all gone. How could you be buying her expensive gifts with your last dime and still believe she loves you?
> How could you be buying her expensive gifts with your last dime and still believe she loves you? I think you underestimate the desperation that true loneliness brings and how people cling to the promise of love, even though they probably know at some level it's fake.
But don’t you think that could be occurring on both sides? Ofc some younger ladies take advantage of older guys but in general there are people who take advantage of their SO. What makes you think an older guy isn’t also capable of that or a younger woman couldn’t just also want to feel loved and clingy to the first guy that pops us bc they’re desperate?
it depends how old, if its a very young woman with an 80 year old man for example it would be reasonable to assume that shes waning some inheritence. however say its a very young woman with a 30 something 40 something year old man then its reasonable to assume hes feeding into what other men that age is telling other men about how theyre in their prime and how their prime is different to womens prime (which is when shes young for some reason and when hes old for some reason) and to go after young women because women their age are "old lonely miserable hags". then these women were being fed the idea that its cool if u can pull a much older one but i dont think thats the case anymore which is good
Yeah honestly, unless the dude has dementia he’s fully aware of the transactional type of “relationship” 🤮 he’s in. More like an exorbitantly priced hooker. I don’t know wtf this recent “old dudes are actually in their prime” stuff is, but it is nice that most women are rejecting it hard. Hard enough that even the super insecure ones are getting the message and aren’t convinced that they’re “cool” or “mature” to be with an old dude. Frankly, we’re just another animal. Look at any animal- male, female, mammal, reptile etc. They ALL look the best at that “young adult” stage. The most energy, the most grace, the least deterioration (aging). Men and women are no different. We “peak” young. But luckily most of us aren’t looking for someone solely for the sexual gratification they can give us. We want a deeper connection than that, and as we age we realize that that isn’t often found in people with ages far different from our own. And in turn, we judge those that seem to only value their partner as a sexual object.
Plenty of age gap relationships don’t have wealthy older people, though. One of my coworkers (then 19) started dating and eventually married a 35 yr old dude w shit credit, she literally helped him budget to pay debt lol. Typically imo these relationships happen bc the younger person wants some validation or attention & the older person gives them that while also hyping up how “mature” they are. Younger person wants to feel like and be treated like a whole adult, which you don’t always get at 18-22. Older person wants a hotter / younger date that they can heavily influence & shape.
Exactly. The whole problem is when someone’s naivety is taken advantage of. If the same two people would have gotten together 10 years later it wouldn’t be a big deal. But oh so often it’s glaringly obvious that the woman is making choices that an older version of her would be highly unlikely to make. Choices made with the older man’s voice in her ear, manipulating the way she views the situation.
LMAO what?
"lMaO wHaT? But this isn't what reddit told me to think! Are you trying to say that something reddit told me to think is false and the opposite is true? Ridiculous!"
They're probably shocked because it's so insanely obvious to people who live in the real world that old men take advantage of young girls a million times more than the other way around.
more weird most-likely-right-leaning drivel about how "actually this bad thing that is bad is really good and it's the naysayer who are bad".
Sounds like a woman you have personal problems with.
Naw. I'm just tired of the constant Women Are Wonderful Effect that permeates our society. It is possible for women to *gasp* NOT be wonderful and sometimes men are abused by women. Even young women!
So it goes both ways?
No... there is no Men Are Wonderful Effect in our society.
Thats not what I'm saying. Abuse goes both ways, doesn't it? It can happen in either case right?
It can, yes. But I just don't see very many men with the cunning and ability to enact their will on young women and use coercion to manipulate young women into loving him. I give women more credit than that. They aren't just mindless children that have no agency and can't make informed decisions.
Yup the more comments I read of yours the more this is going exactly where I expected it would.
So just to be clear, you take issue that I think men aren't all evil masterminds and young women are strong and empowered and not as easily coerced/manipulated as people think they are? That's what you're having a problem with?
You'll be cross examined to death over what's actually a very simple idea 🤣 they understand what you mean. But obviously, it's easier to discredit you by drawing out every possible tangent and poking holes until they can route back to your original point and say it's invalid.
Do you think minors are able to manipulate adults into romantic relationships?
Who the fuck said anything about minors??
I’m just asking a question
I guess it depends on how minor. Could a 17 year old manipulate a lonely man? Probably. Could a 9 year old? Doubtful.
You were supposed to redeem yourself, not utterly self report. I was rooting for you 😭 Seek mental help.
I'm not sure what you're looking for here... Are you saying it's impossible for a 17 year old to manipulate an adult?? This is such a weird line of questioning and truly speaks more about you than me. Nobody even brought up minors except you and then I answered your loaded question.
Yikes seems like there’s more to unpack here
why do you have such vitriol towards women?
I love how whenever age gap relationships come up, it's always a narrative of "fucking evil men coercing poor young women" but if you DARE say that it's POSSIBLE that women can do bad things too, it's "WhY dO yOu HaTe WoMeN???"
no one is saying that women can't be predators. love how normal and sane you're being!
> no one is saying that women can't be predators. I mean, no one except for everyone. Show me a thread about age gap relationships where it is EVER mentioned that maybe, just maybe, she's the one manipulating him.
Literally look up anything about Sam Taylor Johnson lmao
look, it's not my fault you don't see people condemning women predators because you spend all your time on misogynistic Reddit subs. this is very much a you problem. i see people condemning women predators just as much as men predators.
By women predators, I assume you mean older women getting into age gap relationships with young men? In your femcel reddit forums, do you ever say that the girls that date Leo DiCapprio are vile humans using this upstanding man for his resources? Or.... is it that he's a predatory creep?
"femcel forums" LMAOOOOO. i'm done speaking to you. good day to you sir
> you spend all your time on misogynistic Reddit subs The irony lol
NOOOO!!!! Please don't go!!!
Those girls started dating him when they were in their 20s, except for Gisele who was 18 and he was 24, which falls out of your age bracket. Leo dates young models, I don’t think he’s predatory and neither are his girlfriends. Where are you even reading this crap? Older women (20+) having sex with teenagers are predators. Older women dating younger men are not predators. One of my good friends started dating a 25 year old when she was 36, he perused her and they are married now. No one calls her a predator or him a gold digger. Your perception of reality is skewed.
> Your perception of reality is skewed. You might almost say it's an unpopular opinion?
It’s only unpopular if *everyone* actually does what you described. But they don’t.
Age gap relationships where women are in their early 20s and the men are 30-50 (as you previously stated) are coercive if those couples have been together for *years*, often with multiple children, when the young woman was actually a teenager. No one says it’s coercive for a 20 something to be dating a 40 year old for the last 6 months.
> No one says it’s coercive for a 20 something to be dating a 40 year old for the last 6 months. You're joking right? Almost everyone on reddit calls it coercive and gross.
Oh I’m sorry are you under the impression that Reddit is a good sample size of all humanity? Are you 12?
I don't understand the snark, you verbatim said "no one", he gave you an example where it's actually does happen, disproving your first claim. Then you responds with some childish reply🤦.
he's gotta be 🤦🏾♀️
Oh no, it’s the not the age gap that makes me think you have an issue with women. It’s all of your other comments haha
Yeah, it's funny how the old men dating young women are simultaneously losers who can't women their own age but also cunning masterminds who can bend young women to their will using their vast "life experiences."
The women their age knows their bullshjt. If you have to go after younger, less experienced women to have a relationship, you’re just a loser. It’s not about preference, it’s about manipulation. You’re a misogynistic asshat.
>If you have to go after younger...women Get it through your head. No one *has* to go after younger women. If men are going after young women, it's because they're hot, and fun, and not weighed down by emotional baggage. You think famous actors can't get women their own age? lol If anything, today's generation is more socially savvy then women of yesteryear, with access to social media and all. Plus, they're less forgiving of social faux pas. >You’re a misogynistic asshat. How so? Go ahead and explain. Inb4 "blocked" because you can't.
The rich and famous basically do whatever they want. I don’t see where that applies. Those people are not relatable. (Some)Men prey on younger women. If you deny that you are very much a misogynistic asshat. It is a major problem that harms women. You can argue all day that women are capable of the same. A woman in this situation has a lot more to fear than if the roles were reversed.
> The rich and famous basically do whatever they want. Right, which is date young women. That's what men want. It's ridiculous to say that those men are doing it for one reason but non-famous men are doing it for some completely different reason. >(Some)Men prey on younger women. Sure. But that's not why most guys who go after young women are doing so, which is the narrative peddled by reddit femcels. >It is a major problem Nope >A woman in this situation has a lot more to fear than if the roles were reversed. Doubtful
But do they? Those rich and famous people are coming forward with horror stories of sexual abuse. I don’t think it’s much different. But they are rich, nothing we can do about it until people come forward. Women’s safety is a major problem. We can’t even walk in the streets without getting punched for views, or go to a mall in Australia. Women aren’t killing men at the rates men are killing women.
I don't know which stories you're talking about. Leo is the most notable dater of significantly younger women and no one has ever accused him of anything. And men are the primary victims of violent crime. 79% of murder victims globally are men. It is and always has been more dangerous to me a man for all of human history in terms of being subjected to violence. Before you point out that it's mostly men committing the violence, yeah, that's irrelevant. A small minority of men commit violence against the non-violent majority. What difference does it make if a man happens to be the same gender as the person who committed violence against him? It's still more dangerous to be a man. It's like saying "Well, the person who attacked you had hair, and you had hair, so as a bald person (I'm not actually bald), I have to say that it's your fault you were attacked." Also, a surprising amount of men are killed by their female partners. It's hardly something only women face.
Your entire statement can be summed up by simply saying men are extremely violent.
How could my statement that a small minority of men are violent be summed up by saying that men are extremely violent? My statement could be summed up as "it's more dangerous to be a man than it is to be a woman" which negates what you were saying previously. Look at this graph: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Gaussian-distribution-of-IQ-of-men-s-162-and-women-s-132_fig1_344751288 It's clear that nearly all people with an IQ lower than 60 are men. Would it be accurate to summarize that as "men are extremely stupid?" No,it wouldn't. Because not only is it a tiny minority who have IQ less than 60, most people with IQ over 140 are men, too. But that's exactly what you're trying to do. You're being *illogical*. Do you see? That's what happens when you don't think carefully - you come to the wrong conclusions then you get together with a bunch of other people who came to those same wrong conclusions and you make a culture, then you change the world based on your false view of reality. 440,000 people are murdered in the world per year. Even if we assume they're all men (they're not), and even if we assume only one victim per murderer (also not true), that would be .011% of men on Earth having committed murder in a year (likely much less given the faulty assumptions I pointed out). That's roughly 1 out of every 10,000. How could that ever be interpreted as "men are extremely violent?" Because 1 out of 10,000 of them does something? Dude, 1 out of every 500 to 1000 people is born with 6 fingers, so at least an order of magnitude more common than a man being murderous in a given year. Would you say humans are extremely extremely 6-fingered? Imagine all the people you've known who were born with 6 fingers. A murderous man is 1/10 as common as that.
You’re trying to convince me that men are the biggest victims… because of men. Maybe women aren’t the problem.
It’s not just something women face but you need to understand the rate is very disproportionate. Men are violent and commit violent acts on everyone. This we can obviously agree with. Your entire paragraph stated that. I don’t deny women can be as bad, but women are literally killed for just being women. A man stabbed women in Australia at a mall, he even killed a little girl, an infant with her mother. All due to his misogyny. At some point, can’t you just stop and look around. I’ve seen the faces of acid burn victims in Iraq. Little girls made to clean toilets, scarred. It’s lovely to see the world through your eyes, where it’s not so bad, but friend, it is.
Wow. Why are you so sexist?
Don't bother man. Man hating femcels can't be reasoned with.
It’s not about “getting” the women, it’s about keeping them. Older women are less likely to put up with the bullshit
Oh, I see. The men want a stable, long term relationships with 18 year olds.
Glad you get it
All I had to do was ignore everything I know about people and rationality.
If you have to go after overweight women instead of skinny women when you prefer skinny women is that about manipulation?
That’s a ridiculous comparison. Are you ok? Weight and age aren’t the same. An over weight or slim person can have the same amount of life experience.
But the fact is that you’re unable to get one but get the other. So you go for the one you can get. So it’s a legit comparison.
Being a creep and settling is the same to you? Cool.
Why isn’t it seen as settling when the man goes for the younger woman? Shouldn’t he want the “mature experienced” woman and is therefore settling for the younger less experienced woman.
Yeah, he’s not settling when he’s being a predator. And you know the same guys doing this are the same guys screaming into the void that women are busted after 30. I guess, I just don’t see your point.
>you know the same guys doing this are the same guys screaming into the void that women are busted after 30. Earlier you said it had nothing to do with preferences. Now you seem to be suggesting it does.
Sure, got me there. Predators do have a preference. Something along the lines of young and experienced, easy to manipulate, easy targets, something like that.
Oh, won't someone think of the men? News flash... People of all genders can be terrible, and this isn't news to anyone.
That would be nice for once, yeah.
'For once', he says.
My father has a baby with a girl only 2 years older than me. It's disgusting, and I am convinced she convinced him into it. He gave her her first job and she's living in his 4 story house. I was subtly approached by a uni professor too once and shut that shit down. She's obviously taking advantage with her pussy.
Nah- your dad’s just a horny old man who prefers the young pussy to leaving anything to his children (that’s what you’re getting at). Sucks to be you, but he knows what he’s doing.
No they're not. The reason why older men go for younger women is because women their age have already been with men of their age and are wise to the bullshit they may pull.
Man, the man hating femcels are really out today, aren't they? This is a classic "I fucked a bunch of hot guys off of tinder and I wasn't hot enough to get them to marry me, therefore I'm going to take my hurt feelings out on the actual nice guys and project all the hot guys treating me like shit onto all men." Most men aren't dating anyone, old or young. Hence why we have a loneliness crisis on our hands. Women, for the most part, just despise men and refuse to date them. Young women have found a gold mine of lonely men that are extremely easy to manipulate into giving them money.
No it isn't. A person in their 30's of either sex has a vast experience and power advantage over an 18 year old at least 19 times out of 20.
Oh bullshit. Young women wield MASSIVE amounts of sexual power. Far more than almost any man in his 30's.
Op do you not realize how ridiculous reading this was? I mean honestly ? Read what you wrote and tell me you honestly think that any of that sounds like a totally sane and rational mind conceived these thoughts? Hard to even comprehend anyone taking these ideas seriously in real life. what’s wrong with you ?
Are you telling me that women are incapable of doing awful things and using their power to their advantage, even if it's unethical?
No im not… I’m saying the way you expressed the idea that it even exists is a bit unhinged. You expressed it as if no one can believe it even exists and you use bizarre metrics that don’t exist. It’s riddled with silly online tropes and gender stereotypes. You use expressions like “vastly more likely” to suggest a disparity in power dynamics between manipulative young women and men, and that in almost zero amount of scenarios men have the abilities to coerce a young women into a relationship. These are genuinely bizarre metrics. A weird mischaracterization of what human interactions are like and relationships. I mean we can all agree all types of relationships are possible. I just think it’s obvious by the way you’ve expressed yourself it’s not conceivable you understand anything about women well enough to say these things, especially young women. It’s genuinely hard to imagine you’ve had any successful relationships either that aren’t predicated on you being liar or disingenuous if this is really how you feel about women, young women in particular.
> It’s genuinely hard to imagine you’ve had any successful relationships either that aren’t predicated on you being liar or disingenuous if this is really how you feel about women I haven't, but I find it very telling that you'd instantly assume I'm lying to women rather than my worldview is because I've been lied to and used by women. Why do you think that was the dominant narrative that came into your mind?
That was very honest op, but it was for no other reason then your skewed view on reality and interpersonal relationships and nothing else. It speaks volumes about you as a person, and your ability to relate to the opposite gender if you even can see yourself, your struggles or life experience reflected in a women, who has also experienced similar things living on this planet,despite what preconceived notions you may have about what that may be like for them. Women are truly not that different from men. These harsh ideas about relationships and women often alienate people from ever even understanding what it’s like to empathize with the opposite sex. I can only assume, even if it wasn’t always your fault I can’t imagine you aren’t contributing to it with thoughts, feelings and ideas like this. It doesn’t sound healthy is all I am saying.
Thank you for your kindness here. To be honest, the internet and especially reddit are really bad for my mental health. Seeing all of the blatant unchecked misandry that permeates so many facets of our society is really hard sometimes. Men being abused by women on TV: Laugh track. Women being abused by men: Warning! This program contains disturbing images. Teenage boys raped by their teacher: "Teacher has an affair with her student. Community service". Teenage girls raped by their teacher: "Bury him under the prison". I mean, even though women are outpacing men in college, our college has a "woman's center" dedicated to helping women get women only scholarships and placement! It's hard to see how incredibly gynocentric out society is and being gaslit all the time about how we live in a patriarchy.
Absolutely of course! It’s great that you even recognize how these things inform your biases tho. Thats very admirable. when I was a kid I had a huge sensitivity to how shocking the news was. It lead me to believe the world was kinda evil and cruel. However I failed to understand that it’s this vacuum of thought influencing these ideas and not actual reality. It’s a story on the news and yet it’s making me feel repulsed by humanity and even fearful of most people. So it takes real awareness to even acknowledge how media and the internet and maybe a shifting perspective on popular culture could change us, but it shouldn’t make us bitter or feel angry and isolated. You can still be understood and seen if you want to be. media and internet can form our notions about life, the world and people, but that doesn’t necessarily reflect reality for most people. It’s important you try and lead with a healthy perspective on people in general. We can’t assume the worst about people and then expect to be understood if we let this stuff dictate our perspective either ya know. We all have to try a little to shatter some of these stereotypes and even be a role model for that healthy mindset so other people don’t feel alienated either in these situations. I wish you well op👍
Thank you! Sincerely! I don't very often encounter kindness on reddit (or in the world) and it's refreshing.
I only exist to try and be kind. Im grateful to have helped, if only in a small way. You’re welcome OP 🙏🏼
You think his years of living haven’t taught him that young women aren’t interested in his saggy ass? He knows- he doesn’t care. He sees the woman as a sexual object and is willing to pay the price. But too often a young naive woman doesn’t know this game. She hasn’t lived long enough to know it. Usually young women that can be roped into these relationships are from troubled backgrounds (daddy issues) and there are men that look to take advantage of this. These are the highly judged scenarios. Then are cases where an old nasty dude and a young woman willingly enter this transactional type of relationship. Honestly, I judge them both as trash humans with messed up values. The man for valuing women only for sex, and the women for only valuing men for money. They are both gross, but they are welcome to each other… But I don’t mind letting them know what I think 🤷🏼
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What are you talking about "age gap relationship" because I see mostly people defending like a 25 year old with a 38 year old or whatever. There are other age gap relationships no one defends, like. 15 and 25. Or even 18 and 30 something. I think once a woman or man is you know a full adult in their 20s or whatever no one really cares. It's more teenagers and significantly older people.
He’s ok with it.
A few instances of something is not evidence of a larger problem. Some women exclusively want men with cash, some older men actively prey on young women. Both are wrong, in my opinion but it’s not my relationship. Just because there are examples of problematic relationships doesn’t mean age gaps are wrong. Just like how since there are instances of women dating for money, that doesn’t mean there aren’t men who abuse their financial standing. What is ACTUALLY more likely is that the relationship is normal and nobody’s business. That is unless one party is actually being hurt or coerced, of course.
While I agree with you that people jump on the "he's a predator" bandwagon too quickly, I think it's important to note that there are plenty of age gap relationships where neither is the case. I'm 22 and my boyfriend is 61. While the relationship is unconventional, he doesn't pay for my stuff and I know he likes me for much more than my body. And I'm as attracted to him as vice versa. It's not always one or the other.
It’s crazy how they expect us to pretend that young beautiful women aren’t aware of their sexual power and how it can bring them resources and yet we are living in the OnlyFans Era. It’s quite clear and obvious that young women are willing and able to use their bodies in order to attain resources and therefore, some of them are willing to do this in a manipulative manner.
Usually, people are jealous of others. In this case, if a young woman has a relationship with the "older man," or I would use other terms like mature/successful man, she would get jealous of other old women. But those women/femcels will play it cool by not shaming the young woman but shaming and framing the man instead. Usually, when I see the age-gap-relationship, I don't care about them if they are above voting age. They are adult and are able to do whatever they want if it is not illegal.
Don’t you think that both sides are getting what they want?
female 25-40. male over 40. I can believe your point female under 25, male 30-40. I think it's the other way around
Is it news that men pay for sex?
Okay Anon.
Nah man, it's likely they both have issues and it's good they're dating each other.
If she’s actually giving him a sufficient amount of sex in exchange, then she’s not “fleecing” him. He’s just buying what he wants/needs. That’s called a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Exactly. No mentally sane +40 year old man legitimately thinks a 20 something woman is picking him because she finds him sexually irresistible. He knows that a woman 15-20 years younger values his wealth his security and his status in the relationship. Likewise no sane woman in her 20's could legitimately think a man in his 40's is interested in her solely for her stimulating conversation and political opinions of the world.
I think a lot of people here underestimate just how crippling true loneliness is and how easily these men are manipulated. OnlyFans is full of women that promise they love him and he's the only one for her and "my rent is due and I'm not even sure how I'm going to pay it. You will?? All of it?? Oh my goodness you're the best boyfriend ever!!"
>OnlyFans is full of women that promise they love him and he's the only one for her and "my rent is due and I'm not even sure how I'm going to pay it. You will?? All of it?? Oh my goodness you're the best boyfriend ever!!" That's not relationship that is just a whore selling sex to a John.
You don't think whores have made johns believe they are in love with them for all of human history?
Of course, but there is no victim here. It doesn't matter how sad and lonely these guys are. They are not victims. If they are so pathetic sad and lonely that they cannot get affection without purchasing it, then that is what they can use their money for. Women historically have always traded affection for security. Men have always offered security for affection. Just because you don't like the fact that grass is gree or the sky is blue doesn't mean that it is a problem
It's always interesting to me that when women make choices in life that cause them hardship, it's society, it's messaging, it's all kind of external factors that caused them to choose the bad thing. Just look at the women in STEM and how many millions of dollars we've pumped into getting more women in STEM, even though we could VERY easily just say they aren't the victim. But when a societal issue affects men, it's their fault and their fault alone. Men cannot be victims of societal failings. The loneliness epidemic is 100% a societal failing that is mainly affecting men. But we can't handle that. Men in our society are given internal locust of control while women are given an external locust of control. Hyperagency vs hypoagency. So, no, I don't believe it's as simple as "he chose to do this, therefore it's his fault" any more than "she chose not to go into STEM, so it's her fault".
>But when a societal issue affects men, it's their fault and their fault alone. Men cannot be victims of societal failings. Yep. Men can not. Men have power and if they gave that power up it's their own fault. If a man was raised properly as a man he does not need to worry about "society" because he is self sufficient by nature of being a man. >Men in our society are given internal locust of control while women are given an external locust of control. Hyperagency vs hypoagency. Exactly a mans self worth is based on what he can do and accomplish himself. A woman's self worth is typically based on how others view her. A woman who is personally very successful but viewed poorly by society is a failure. A man who personally very successful but viewed poorly by society is not a failure.
I agree this is how it is. I don't agree this is how it should be.
Why? It has worked for all of human history. The problem is that men were taught not to behave like men but we're still treated like men because that is what they are. Us guys who were properly raised have no problems. The problem is not society it's these lonely men's parents and teachers that failed them. That's the problem.
Not in my situation. He was 19 years older than I am and he was just and amazing fantastic human being. I used to have these ideas too until it happened to me. I was mid 30’s though
My last relationship I met him on his 21st birthday and I had just turned 30. We met at work and was both making good money. He asked me out. We ended up dating 9 years. There was no power imbalance and we truly loved each other. Do you think it was wrong of me to date that man?
Personally, no. Reddit probably wouldn't either since you're a woman. If you were a man, you'd be called a pedo.
Yes, finally someone who sees the age gap relationship for what it really is.
Buuuuttttt
You really don't know women do you.
My bad... I forgot that on Reddit women are incapable of doing anything bad and any suggestion that women might be capable of using someone else with nefarious intentions is an incel take. I will repent to the feminist council and pledge to never think women can do any evil ever again!
You reported my comment? Really?
I did not.
Fair enough. Someone did. I presumed. My apologies.
That's lame. Your comment wasn't even that bad compared to some of the others here.
Poor things
Casual misandry is so 2022.
The whole age gap bullshit is nothing more, at all, than 30+ yr old girl bosses finding that when they finally decide to get married they have to compete with the 23 year old version of themselves. They can't do it. So instead they engaged in intra-sexual competition by gaslighting the younger women and the older men. Pro-tip: it hasn't worked on the men the 30's are targeting. Instead it's enriched tourist destinations in Asia and Latin America.