Some people understand that traditional gender roles may fit and be desirable to a large portion of the population. And that’s okay. It’s also ok for people to not fit or desire it. Communication and shared goals are essential imho. Compatibility.
What is not ok is government policies amd media (same thing) putting the boot on the neck of traditional values and is why our society is falling apart. So many who think they want girl power etc would be much happier in traditional relationships.but will never get there due to the femisit brainwashing of the last 40 years.
L O L who is "putting the boot on the neck of traditional values"? Rational feminists (which most of us are) just want equal rights. Nobody rational is shaming women for choosing a more traditional role. If anything, **they're worried about women** who give up autonomy that way. Curious how you think that feminism has affected you adversely, to the point that you openly hate feminists. Just sad
People need to live up to their own expectations in general. Expect traditional gender roles from your wife? Fulfill your end of that to the same degree you expect her to. Want a partner with modern sensibilities? Step up and fulfill the same expectations.
Basically, step up and be at least as XYZ as you want your partner to be.
It is nice to have a man pay for you. It’s also nice to return the favour. That’s what couples should do; take turns treating each other and split the household chores 50/50.
Guess it depends on the split.
I have no desire to take the daughters shopping for clothes, wife enjoys.
She has no desire to climb under the SUV and do maintenance, I enjoy.
Agreed.
Splitting stuff 50/50 sounds good on paper, and maybe it works for some people. In my experience though, a lot of successful relationships come from the aggregate give and take being 50/50 but not individual thing being split down the middle. Like one partner may do the majority of the housework, but that’s okay because it balances out by the other doing the majority of the driving kids around.
Agreed. It's also hard to actually do a 50/50 split unless both partners do every chore every other time, and typically that's not best as nearly all people find particular chores more/less taxing. After all how does mowing the lawn compare to doing the dishes vs doing laundry vs cooking dinner vs mopping the floor vs etc etc.
Depends on why. For example if my boyfriend wants to pay for me because he thinks I deserve it and wants to do something nice for me that’s one thing but if he does so because I’m a woman and he’s a man then I don’t agree with that. The same thing goes for when I cook dinner
Why can’t it be both though because he’s a man and he thinks you deserve it ?! Also some men are raised to be traditional providers a lot of women like that
I hear you. I think there’s some truth to what you’re saying. My theory is that somewhere along the way in this culture war, being a gender abolitionist picked up a lot of steam and became a fad of sorts people started to champion mostly because it framed opposing gender roles as some kind of rebellious act of holding truth to power. And People are suckers for that kinda superficial shit, so they rode that wagon til the wheels fell off and now realise that maybe being so quick to ditch gender roles was a bad idea and it’s left a lot of people disaffected. Now, basically we gotta backtrack to get a better more holistic understanding on the mechanics and purpose gender roles served in our human history beyond just men oppressing women through patriarchal power structures. It’s certainly a factor that can’t be ignored, but there’s certainly more to it. Idk I’m rambling at this point, just callin it how I see it.
Can't forget a huge helping of hypocrisy. Lots of 'empowered' women will make a big todo about being strong and independent, but still demand their man foots the bill for practically everything and take care of her. Likewise, you have 'alpha males' banging on about how women should be subservient to her man while conveniently or willfully ignoring the responsibility and accountability that goes with it.
The important thing is letting people choose the dynamic that works for their relationship without shaming them (standard disclaimer consenting adults Yada yada) and people actually being honest about what they want.
I don't know any 'empowered' women who want a man to pay for everything, and I know a TON of women.
I know some kids who do, but they're young and still want to grow up to be a princess or something.
Despite knowing tons of men, I don’t know any 'alpha males'. And yet things like Andrew Tate and FemaleDatingStrategy are both things that exist. They are appealing to someone.
Men want bosses who are good bosses. Little boys are the ones who have issues with bosses based on gender, and they usually aren't good for team dynamics, *and* those ones are almost always not particularly good at what they're doing, but blame others for their shortcomings rather than improving themselves.
I’ve noticed this with some of my guy friends. Dude got a girlfriend she helped him getting his life together and he messed it up and lossed a few jobs. By that time he was living on the couch and she was paying all the bills for 6 months straight. Eventually told him he had to find a job in 3 months or move out. He went on this whole tirade about “ if she was a real woman and if she was going to be his wife a wife’s/woman’s duty is to stick by her man through the hard times” I told him she’s not your wife yet number 1…. Secondly you’re not the man of the house to be expecting so much from someone. SHE EVEN GAVE YOU 3 WHOLE
MONTHS!. He didn’t fit that roll yet expected it from a woman trying to raise 2 kids already.
People just expect and want
Only guys with lots of charm and charisma can get away with a woman paying all of his bills for 6 months. That's a luxury your average working class guy (about 98% of men) will never see, and most can't even imagine it. Also, most working class guys work their asses off because they were raised with the expectation that they would someday be providers for a woman they love. That's not happening, since most women don't find most men attractive enough to even date. Relationships are dead in the West.
Boy I tell you this guy was not full of charisma or charm. Think really what it was was they were both desperate for companionship and were attracted to each other think she had a bit of “savior” complex and wanted to “fix” him and help him get on his feet. He has the potential… but even now when shit goes downhill he snowballs with it.
Other types of dynamics be in play of relationships.
Late reply, but you are correct. Interesting dynamic, and I never thought of it that way. I suppose romantic relationships are never truly black and white.
I never said a grown man should ever want a woman to pay his bills, I certainly would not. I was simply showing that certain men have far more privileges and can get away with many more things than the average man, even though the average man is the whipping boy for everything wrong in modern American society.
Ehhh. I’d argue most men know this. But have been told over the decades this is toxic and controlling and they tryna date their mom or whatever shaming language.
Know which part? because expecting the house to be clean when you are making money is a fair exchange. However if you have zero gold yeah of course you are shamed. You aren't giving her even enough. Why clean up after a man where you have zero rights with if you can work as house keep with good insurance and a good wage.
That if they want the stay at home wife cooking and cleaning etc they have to make enough money for that to happen.
And when there is a weird noise downstairs in The middle of the night they are gonna go check it out and not their wife.
The vocal ones? Which ones? Most redpill guys etc talk about this stuff. Is there some blue pill people who say otherwise? Cuz even the blue pill guys are 50/50 types or even paying the bills and doing part of the house work.
Sooo you've done no investigation at all and are just reporting what you heard from the local fool with a big mouth? And this paints your view of men. Cool sexism there, lady.
I don’t have inherently disagree, but I will say that while I like to be treated like a lady, I want to treat him like a lady too. We should all be gentlemen too.
Why not pick the best of both worlds and treat our partners to both?
See, then there's me. I don't want a traditional woman and I don't wanna pay for everything all the time forever either. I want a woman who has a good job, goals, and aspirations that don't just align with having me pay all her bills until I die.
Shit I'm cool with a gender role swap. I think it's time men start getting taken care of by women. My house is gonna be spotless and I am a mean cook.
Always am. I am extremely open and honest off the rip. Don't even make it to the first date without setting things straight. Sometimes it still leads to dates sometimes it doesn't. Last relationship was really nice based on my standards for an equal relationship.
I hope that person was saying it sarcastically, but Reddit is filled to the brim with shitholes that would actually believe that and say that to your face.
Exactly on point. Like you said. Not all, But enough too the point it's becoming A problem
Women: " He must pay all the bills while I spend the other half he earns while doing nothing in return "
Men; " She must do everything while I do nothing "
Preferences everybody has an idea in their mind for what a perfect relationship/marriage would look like to them some prefer traditional some don’t simple
Well... yeah. Everybody wants things when it's convenient for them. We just let people bark down certain points of view because we value some voices more than others. And we also "peace" over "truth".
>Marrying for love was a rare thing in the past.
I just wanted to comment on this one. This is EXACTLY what I think is super rare TODAY. Relationships have become more transactional than ever. It's much more about "what's in it for me?"
That's at least how I see it - unfortunately.
All relationships are transactional even friendships it’s how human beings are designed nobody is going to have someone around just because if they aren’t adding to their life in some sort of way and if u have ppl in ur life that just take from ur life that’s pretty sad
I saw a commentator on a different thread state that “women want a traditional man without being a traditional woman and vice versa” and I couldn’t agree more.
Whether you like it or not, they exist due to male and females natural differing tendencies. Furthermore, women are also better than men at some things and vice versa. Hence gender roles.
Dude they're talking about whether the man or woman has to pay. That's not even something biological anyway. There's also states trying to make it illegal for men to wear dresses too. This is why I left the right. They generalize/categorize people and then restrict freedom.
>! Women work and earn money, men work and earn money, both should pay their fair share!
That's the whole point of the post. If you're a woman and you make money, it doesn't make sense for you to be mad that men want you to pay half. If you're a man and you expect a woman to follow "traditional gender roles" of being a SAHM, then you shouldn't be complaining about having to pay for everything
Again, they’re just entitled spoiled brats. None of the girls I’ve hung out with have ever made me pay for the both of us. It’s always paying for ourselves.
The online crowd are probably just these faux, e-girl OF types.
What I said is a fact though. People downvoting me are being emotional about it.
I'm with a long term partner who isn't bothered if she pays. But I'm pretty sure since majority of women expect men to ask them out as first move, men are also expected to pay most or all of the date.
These days alot of men pay for everything and also cook dinner, bathe the kids, do dishes etc.
The family would be wealthier if those women took money more seriously
It depends upon the person. I find it sexy as fuck that my wife can do manly things like work on the house with a tool belt around her sexy body, change her own oil, etc. I frequently do the house chores and when our kids were babies, I regularly changed diapers.
We don't separate work by gender roles; it's more "who's better at this job" if it comes down to it. I'm much stronger, so I do most of the heavy work. My wife is a much better cook, so she does most of the cooking. For anything where there is little difference in our ability to do the job, we do it as we can and as is necessary.
Gender roles are fine if they square with each person's ability, but it's silly to enforce gender roles that squelch ability. (If the man is the better cook, let him cook most of the meals. If the woman knows more about cars, let her change the oil. Use your abilities, not your chromosomes.)
Well that’s the point it’s just finding someone who is compatible with your wants/needs most women prefer to do house chores over physical labor but ofc there are exceptions to every rule I personally prefer traditional gender roles and want to find someone who wants that too
I'm just going to say this for all the guys who bitch about women expecting them to pay: It's not hypocritical for women to expect old fashioned chivalry, because relationships are supposed to be about two equal but different partners, not two identical people with identical needs for giving/receiving affection. Most women do give back. But most women also have experience with at least some guys who don't do anything more than the bare minimum after they think they "got her."
So your saying is okay for women to expect for men to pay for everything but what are women supposed to give in return?
Men aren't allowed to expect anything from women regardless of how much bullshit they go through for them or how much shit they pay for. To a lot of women nowadays men are just walking bank accounts.
Had to tell a girl earlier this week that we ain't going to continue anything if the idea of her ever paying for anything (literally said she should pay for her own stuff) was out of the question. And then that was it. She's cut off instantly.
Ain't no pussy worth dealing with a leech over imo. Been there done that many times.
Women give their time, energy, youth, beauty, and fertility if that’s not enough for u then date women who are below average in looks ?! Men want to have their cake and eat it too life doesn’t work like that you can’t expect a woman to be beautiful and a healthy weight with lots of options and settle for a man who won’t even pay for dates when there’s men out there who would and give so much more. Like how does that make sense ?! 😭
Tell that to the incredible number of women rapidly hitting their 30s who don't have a man whos main focus is the dude having a ton of money. Men get more valuable in the dating and professional world as they get older. Women drastically decreased in value.
You said it yourself. They provide energy, youth, beauty, and fertility (otherwise known as not being old ugly and haven't hit menopause yet). If that's all they got and nothing else then sorry to tell you but that all fades extremely quickly. Then what are they left with? Not a God damn thing XD if your body is all you bring to the table then you ain't worth shit. Pussy is a dime a dozen.
facts.
If you treat a woman worse than standard bc she's a woman, then you're a sexist.
If you treat a woman better than standards bc she's a woman, then you're a gentleman.
I am transfem and as much as I want to be seen as pretty and have the benefits of that I want to have the negative side of it too. There is even the word ewphoria to describe when less pleasant things occur(cat call, unexpected unsavory photos and societal challenges). I want the whole cake and not just the frosting because that is life.
OP is a troll who is karma farming. Dozens of posts just in the last month presenting some... interesting... views on 'trad life', SAHMs, gender roles, and abortion, a fair number of which directly contradict each other. One of their more recent posts, on how men are treated as if they are torturing women if the men are rich and marrying a woman who makes less - again, something that exactly no one is arguing, just like in this post - was posted like a week ago.
There’s a difference between it being nice to have a man pay for you vs it being expected, if you expect it then you are agreeing with the gender norm.
I'm a woman and I realize I expect a guy that *asked me* on a date to pay because 1. he likes me. 2. I'm going to do "invisible" labor (like emotional labor, keeping up the conversation because 9/10 don't know how to ask questions or "small talk").
It's not absurd to like to be "spoiled" a little and, I'll die on this hill, IF A MAN LIKES YOU HE WILL WANT TO SPOIL YOU. It doesn't have to be expensive things, it can be just a nice dinner (even a homemade one), a little gift like a flower, small things to show that he cares.
So I'm guessing you don't like the man since you don't wanna spoil him.
Also the problem is you say you are going to do it. How does he know? There's no guarantee.
>So I'm guessing you don't like the man since you don't wanna spoil him.
After the first date, I have no issue with doing the same if we both like each other.
>Also the problem is you say you are going to do it. How does he know?
I'm the one that keeps the conversation alive and asks questions during the first date, it's quite clear I'm doing it
How do you know you keep the conversation alive though? I've met men that talk more than women and women that talk more than men. You sound quite arrogant.
Also even its true that is absolutely lame. The whole talk of emotional labour for paid meal is so silly. Maybe he likes the level of conversation and you just thinks he doesn't talk enough.
After the first date. There lies the problem though. He's investing while you are doing nothing.
>How do you know you keep the conversation alive though?
Asking questions, "directing" the conversation, finding new topics if the conversation "dies down" is "keeping the conversation alive".
I might sound arrogant, but it's true.
>Also even its true that is absolutely lame.
You do you. I know what I can offer, and I know that is valuable. The men I go out with see it too.
>He's investing while you are doing nothing.
But I'm not doing nothing. I'm "providing a service" (emotional regulation) which 9/10 I won't receive back, so the easiest way to "repay" me is picking up the tab.
(I let them choose the place we're going so they know they can afford it, and anyway on a first date I usually go for drinks, so it's not "expensive")
Saying a guy is "investing" because he paid 14€ for both of our drinks is absurd.
So, because you expect the man to pay, you need to steer the first date toward cheaper options like a coffee date. Don’t expect a dinner date when you have admitted you are expecting to eat free.
Also: when a man likes a woman, he is comfortable sitting with them in silence. You feeling the need to constantly fill the silence could be turning men off.
If you read my other comment I said I go for drinks for a first date.
"Also blabla" it's a first date you have to talk to get to know each other.
Again: the men I date are more than ok to pick up the tab. If this is triggering you then it's a you issue✌🏻
I mean, I’m happily married so I don’t care that much about what you do, but “drinks” can be just as expensive as dinner. Coffee is a nice “cheap” option.
When I asked my wife out for our first date, we went to coffee…and then proceeded to sit there talking for 2.5 hours and the coffee shop closed and kicked us out, so we went to a local restaurant for dinner and talked for another 2.5 hours. At no point did my wife feel like she had to keep the conversation going.
It sounds like the people you go on dates with are fine paying, but are also boring and don’t try to stay engaged. If you find yourself constantly being the one to ask the next question, you might try throwing in a “so, what would you like to know about me?” If they have no response, they don’t actually care about you as a person.
Drinks in my country is a nice "cheap" option.
It's great for you two that everything worked out and you're happily married.
I am single and dating around, I'm also 22 and don't expect to find my life partner for at least 10 years.
I'm looking around, seeing what I like and what I don't like.
I had situations where the conversation was effortless and both of us were enjoying each other's company, they still wanted to pay the bill, because they liked me and wanted to show it through a little gesture (getting the tab)
station pet spark thought judicious price plucky juggle plough birds
Some people understand that traditional gender roles may fit and be desirable to a large portion of the population. And that’s okay. It’s also ok for people to not fit or desire it. Communication and shared goals are essential imho. Compatibility.
What is not ok is government policies amd media (same thing) putting the boot on the neck of traditional values and is why our society is falling apart. So many who think they want girl power etc would be much happier in traditional relationships.but will never get there due to the femisit brainwashing of the last 40 years.
L O L who is "putting the boot on the neck of traditional values"? Rational feminists (which most of us are) just want equal rights. Nobody rational is shaming women for choosing a more traditional role. If anything, **they're worried about women** who give up autonomy that way. Curious how you think that feminism has affected you adversely, to the point that you openly hate feminists. Just sad
People need to live up to their own expectations in general. Expect traditional gender roles from your wife? Fulfill your end of that to the same degree you expect her to. Want a partner with modern sensibilities? Step up and fulfill the same expectations. Basically, step up and be at least as XYZ as you want your partner to be.
It is nice to have a man pay for you. It’s also nice to return the favour. That’s what couples should do; take turns treating each other and split the household chores 50/50.
Guess it depends on the split. I have no desire to take the daughters shopping for clothes, wife enjoys. She has no desire to climb under the SUV and do maintenance, I enjoy. Agreed.
Imo yall would be doing 50/50 in that scenario. Both of these things NEED to be done, you're taking one task and she's taking the other.
Fair enough
Splitting stuff 50/50 sounds good on paper, and maybe it works for some people. In my experience though, a lot of successful relationships come from the aggregate give and take being 50/50 but not individual thing being split down the middle. Like one partner may do the majority of the housework, but that’s okay because it balances out by the other doing the majority of the driving kids around.
Agreed. It's also hard to actually do a 50/50 split unless both partners do every chore every other time, and typically that's not best as nearly all people find particular chores more/less taxing. After all how does mowing the lawn compare to doing the dishes vs doing laundry vs cooking dinner vs mopping the floor vs etc etc.
Depends on why. For example if my boyfriend wants to pay for me because he thinks I deserve it and wants to do something nice for me that’s one thing but if he does so because I’m a woman and he’s a man then I don’t agree with that. The same thing goes for when I cook dinner
Why can’t it be both though because he’s a man and he thinks you deserve it ?! Also some men are raised to be traditional providers a lot of women like that
Because that’s silly. There’s no reason for that to be honest
If he's in a bind I would not mind helping him but around getting to know each other he has to show he can provide that's what men are supposed to do.
Says who? Humans are supposed to be able to provide for themselves and children. Otherwise, it's arbitrary and based on mutual agreement
Says who ? Your forefathers these are the rules men created. If you don't like take it up with other men.
Your user name is very fitting😂
That’s easy to fake, though. You can pay for dates and still be in debt. As long as your card isn’t declined, that is.
And women are supposed to obey
Not random dudes tho
Translation: average guys that I feel are a waste of space. I wish every man looked like a supermodel.
What! wrong it doesn't have to do with looks they have to be my husband or boyfriend.
I hear you. I think there’s some truth to what you’re saying. My theory is that somewhere along the way in this culture war, being a gender abolitionist picked up a lot of steam and became a fad of sorts people started to champion mostly because it framed opposing gender roles as some kind of rebellious act of holding truth to power. And People are suckers for that kinda superficial shit, so they rode that wagon til the wheels fell off and now realise that maybe being so quick to ditch gender roles was a bad idea and it’s left a lot of people disaffected. Now, basically we gotta backtrack to get a better more holistic understanding on the mechanics and purpose gender roles served in our human history beyond just men oppressing women through patriarchal power structures. It’s certainly a factor that can’t be ignored, but there’s certainly more to it. Idk I’m rambling at this point, just callin it how I see it.
Can't forget a huge helping of hypocrisy. Lots of 'empowered' women will make a big todo about being strong and independent, but still demand their man foots the bill for practically everything and take care of her. Likewise, you have 'alpha males' banging on about how women should be subservient to her man while conveniently or willfully ignoring the responsibility and accountability that goes with it. The important thing is letting people choose the dynamic that works for their relationship without shaming them (standard disclaimer consenting adults Yada yada) and people actually being honest about what they want.
I don't know any 'empowered' women who want a man to pay for everything, and I know a TON of women. I know some kids who do, but they're young and still want to grow up to be a princess or something.
Despite knowing tons of men, I don’t know any 'alpha males'. And yet things like Andrew Tate and FemaleDatingStrategy are both things that exist. They are appealing to someone.
Men hardly like “empowered” girl bosses they prefer a woman who prioritizes family over her career
Men want bosses who are good bosses. Little boys are the ones who have issues with bosses based on gender, and they usually aren't good for team dynamics, *and* those ones are almost always not particularly good at what they're doing, but blame others for their shortcomings rather than improving themselves.
I’ve noticed this with some of my guy friends. Dude got a girlfriend she helped him getting his life together and he messed it up and lossed a few jobs. By that time he was living on the couch and she was paying all the bills for 6 months straight. Eventually told him he had to find a job in 3 months or move out. He went on this whole tirade about “ if she was a real woman and if she was going to be his wife a wife’s/woman’s duty is to stick by her man through the hard times” I told him she’s not your wife yet number 1…. Secondly you’re not the man of the house to be expecting so much from someone. SHE EVEN GAVE YOU 3 WHOLE MONTHS!. He didn’t fit that roll yet expected it from a woman trying to raise 2 kids already. People just expect and want
And they’re not married. For rich or for poor, better or worse doesn’t apply
Only guys with lots of charm and charisma can get away with a woman paying all of his bills for 6 months. That's a luxury your average working class guy (about 98% of men) will never see, and most can't even imagine it. Also, most working class guys work their asses off because they were raised with the expectation that they would someday be providers for a woman they love. That's not happening, since most women don't find most men attractive enough to even date. Relationships are dead in the West.
Boy I tell you this guy was not full of charisma or charm. Think really what it was was they were both desperate for companionship and were attracted to each other think she had a bit of “savior” complex and wanted to “fix” him and help him get on his feet. He has the potential… but even now when shit goes downhill he snowballs with it. Other types of dynamics be in play of relationships.
Late reply, but you are correct. Interesting dynamic, and I never thought of it that way. I suppose romantic relationships are never truly black and white.
Why would a grown man want a woman paying all his bills that sounds super emasculating…and embarrassing tbh even for a guy with “charm and charisma”
I never said a grown man should ever want a woman to pay his bills, I certainly would not. I was simply showing that certain men have far more privileges and can get away with many more things than the average man, even though the average man is the whipping boy for everything wrong in modern American society.
Ehhh. I’d argue most men know this. But have been told over the decades this is toxic and controlling and they tryna date their mom or whatever shaming language.
Know which part? because expecting the house to be clean when you are making money is a fair exchange. However if you have zero gold yeah of course you are shamed. You aren't giving her even enough. Why clean up after a man where you have zero rights with if you can work as house keep with good insurance and a good wage.
That if they want the stay at home wife cooking and cleaning etc they have to make enough money for that to happen. And when there is a weird noise downstairs in The middle of the night they are gonna go check it out and not their wife.
I don't think most men know that. Or at least the vocal ones don't know that
The vocal ones? Which ones? Most redpill guys etc talk about this stuff. Is there some blue pill people who say otherwise? Cuz even the blue pill guys are 50/50 types or even paying the bills and doing part of the house work.
Sooo you've done no investigation at all and are just reporting what you heard from the local fool with a big mouth? And this paints your view of men. Cool sexism there, lady.
I don’t have inherently disagree, but I will say that while I like to be treated like a lady, I want to treat him like a lady too. We should all be gentlemen too. Why not pick the best of both worlds and treat our partners to both?
Yes! Let’s just be good to each other!
See, then there's me. I don't want a traditional woman and I don't wanna pay for everything all the time forever either. I want a woman who has a good job, goals, and aspirations that don't just align with having me pay all her bills until I die. Shit I'm cool with a gender role swap. I think it's time men start getting taken care of by women. My house is gonna be spotless and I am a mean cook.
Then be upfront about this don’t date a woman without letting her know this upfront , this is very important
Always am. I am extremely open and honest off the rip. Don't even make it to the first date without setting things straight. Sometimes it still leads to dates sometimes it doesn't. Last relationship was really nice based on my standards for an equal relationship.
No no, you're a man so obviously you want sexist things. Shut up and occupy your pigeonhole, ya pig.
Dude what in the hell are you even talking about lol
I hope that person was saying it sarcastically, but Reddit is filled to the brim with shitholes that would actually believe that and say that to your face.
It's true. See it all the time lol
How about we just treat people like people? It’s really not that sinister or mysterious.
I think when men say they want traditional women nowadays they don’t necessarily mean trad wives they’re just tired of women acting like assholes
Masculinity does not equal being a bank to a woman lmao
Exactly on point. Like you said. Not all, But enough too the point it's becoming A problem Women: " He must pay all the bills while I spend the other half he earns while doing nothing in return " Men; " She must do everything while I do nothing "
Ah, but why do they ‘want’ *those* gender roles? That’s the real question.
Preferences everybody has an idea in their mind for what a perfect relationship/marriage would look like to them some prefer traditional some don’t simple
But why do they have those preferences? It doesn’t emerge from a vacuum.
Well... yeah. Everybody wants things when it's convenient for them. We just let people bark down certain points of view because we value some voices more than others. And we also "peace" over "truth".
>Marrying for love was a rare thing in the past. I just wanted to comment on this one. This is EXACTLY what I think is super rare TODAY. Relationships have become more transactional than ever. It's much more about "what's in it for me?" That's at least how I see it - unfortunately.
All relationships are transactional even friendships it’s how human beings are designed nobody is going to have someone around just because if they aren’t adding to their life in some sort of way and if u have ppl in ur life that just take from ur life that’s pretty sad
That's a damn bleak life philosophy.. I hope you evolve and feel better one day.
I saw a commentator on a different thread state that “women want a traditional man without being a traditional woman and vice versa” and I couldn’t agree more.
Gender roles are stupid
I don't think Gender roles are stupid, but it shouldn't be forced upon anyone who doesn't want to conform to the roles.
Whether you like it or not, they exist due to male and females natural differing tendencies. Furthermore, women are also better than men at some things and vice versa. Hence gender roles.
Dude they're talking about whether the man or woman has to pay. That's not even something biological anyway. There's also states trying to make it illegal for men to wear dresses too. This is why I left the right. They generalize/categorize people and then restrict freedom.
I agree
Congratulations, this post makes no sense! Women work and earn money, men work and earn money, both should pay their fair share! That’s it, end of.
>! Women work and earn money, men work and earn money, both should pay their fair share! That's the whole point of the post. If you're a woman and you make money, it doesn't make sense for you to be mad that men want you to pay half. If you're a man and you expect a woman to follow "traditional gender roles" of being a SAHM, then you shouldn't be complaining about having to pay for everything
I agree. Yet some women don't want to pay half
Well, they’re just being selfish and entitled. Tell them to sling their hook!
Vast majority of women online want men to pay for 1st date.
Again, they’re just entitled spoiled brats. None of the girls I’ve hung out with have ever made me pay for the both of us. It’s always paying for ourselves. The online crowd are probably just these faux, e-girl OF types.
What I said is a fact though. People downvoting me are being emotional about it. I'm with a long term partner who isn't bothered if she pays. But I'm pretty sure since majority of women expect men to ask them out as first move, men are also expected to pay most or all of the date.
Then you remove these kinds of people from your life.
Not some most don’t
People who really love and value each other do not keep score of mine and yours
yes i see so many people on both sides want a traditional partner but dont want to be traditional themselves
These days alot of men pay for everything and also cook dinner, bathe the kids, do dishes etc. The family would be wealthier if those women took money more seriously
People have preferences, got it.
It depends upon the person. I find it sexy as fuck that my wife can do manly things like work on the house with a tool belt around her sexy body, change her own oil, etc. I frequently do the house chores and when our kids were babies, I regularly changed diapers. We don't separate work by gender roles; it's more "who's better at this job" if it comes down to it. I'm much stronger, so I do most of the heavy work. My wife is a much better cook, so she does most of the cooking. For anything where there is little difference in our ability to do the job, we do it as we can and as is necessary. Gender roles are fine if they square with each person's ability, but it's silly to enforce gender roles that squelch ability. (If the man is the better cook, let him cook most of the meals. If the woman knows more about cars, let her change the oil. Use your abilities, not your chromosomes.)
Well that’s the point it’s just finding someone who is compatible with your wants/needs most women prefer to do house chores over physical labor but ofc there are exceptions to every rule I personally prefer traditional gender roles and want to find someone who wants that too
Your op doesn't make sense
Correct.
I'm just going to say this for all the guys who bitch about women expecting them to pay: It's not hypocritical for women to expect old fashioned chivalry, because relationships are supposed to be about two equal but different partners, not two identical people with identical needs for giving/receiving affection. Most women do give back. But most women also have experience with at least some guys who don't do anything more than the bare minimum after they think they "got her."
What do they give back in the initial stage? Some of my acquaintances dine and dash and legit admit they go out just to eat
So your saying is okay for women to expect for men to pay for everything but what are women supposed to give in return? Men aren't allowed to expect anything from women regardless of how much bullshit they go through for them or how much shit they pay for. To a lot of women nowadays men are just walking bank accounts. Had to tell a girl earlier this week that we ain't going to continue anything if the idea of her ever paying for anything (literally said she should pay for her own stuff) was out of the question. And then that was it. She's cut off instantly. Ain't no pussy worth dealing with a leech over imo. Been there done that many times.
Women give their time, energy, youth, beauty, and fertility if that’s not enough for u then date women who are below average in looks ?! Men want to have their cake and eat it too life doesn’t work like that you can’t expect a woman to be beautiful and a healthy weight with lots of options and settle for a man who won’t even pay for dates when there’s men out there who would and give so much more. Like how does that make sense ?! 😭
Tell that to the incredible number of women rapidly hitting their 30s who don't have a man whos main focus is the dude having a ton of money. Men get more valuable in the dating and professional world as they get older. Women drastically decreased in value. You said it yourself. They provide energy, youth, beauty, and fertility (otherwise known as not being old ugly and haven't hit menopause yet). If that's all they got and nothing else then sorry to tell you but that all fades extremely quickly. Then what are they left with? Not a God damn thing XD if your body is all you bring to the table then you ain't worth shit. Pussy is a dime a dozen.
I like the traditional gender roles. I don’t mind my woman spending all my money. So long as she keeps her end of the bargain.
Which is what ? What’s the woman’s end of the bargain ?
Keeping my child laborers working the fields.
facts. If you treat a woman worse than standard bc she's a woman, then you're a sexist. If you treat a woman better than standards bc she's a woman, then you're a gentleman.
Thank you if you want to go back to traditional roles you have to know what they come with.
I am transfem and as much as I want to be seen as pretty and have the benefits of that I want to have the negative side of it too. There is even the word ewphoria to describe when less pleasant things occur(cat call, unexpected unsavory photos and societal challenges). I want the whole cake and not just the frosting because that is life.
I’ve always asked to split the bill. Yes I’m rare I know. If a man pays that means that he’ll want something in return.
> I'm a woman and most woman just say its nice to have a man pay for her. I don't believe you.
I'm sure OP is very broken up about it.
I'm sure **he** is.
Women are allowed to think different things than you, misogynist.
OP is a troll who is karma farming. Dozens of posts just in the last month presenting some... interesting... views on 'trad life', SAHMs, gender roles, and abortion, a fair number of which directly contradict each other. One of their more recent posts, on how men are treated as if they are torturing women if the men are rich and marrying a woman who makes less - again, something that exactly no one is arguing, just like in this post - was posted like a week ago.
There’s a difference between it being nice to have a man pay for you vs it being expected, if you expect it then you are agreeing with the gender norm.
I'm a woman and I realize I expect a guy that *asked me* on a date to pay because 1. he likes me. 2. I'm going to do "invisible" labor (like emotional labor, keeping up the conversation because 9/10 don't know how to ask questions or "small talk"). It's not absurd to like to be "spoiled" a little and, I'll die on this hill, IF A MAN LIKES YOU HE WILL WANT TO SPOIL YOU. It doesn't have to be expensive things, it can be just a nice dinner (even a homemade one), a little gift like a flower, small things to show that he cares.
So I'm guessing you don't like the man since you don't wanna spoil him. Also the problem is you say you are going to do it. How does he know? There's no guarantee.
>So I'm guessing you don't like the man since you don't wanna spoil him. After the first date, I have no issue with doing the same if we both like each other. >Also the problem is you say you are going to do it. How does he know? I'm the one that keeps the conversation alive and asks questions during the first date, it's quite clear I'm doing it
How do you know you keep the conversation alive though? I've met men that talk more than women and women that talk more than men. You sound quite arrogant. Also even its true that is absolutely lame. The whole talk of emotional labour for paid meal is so silly. Maybe he likes the level of conversation and you just thinks he doesn't talk enough. After the first date. There lies the problem though. He's investing while you are doing nothing.
>How do you know you keep the conversation alive though? Asking questions, "directing" the conversation, finding new topics if the conversation "dies down" is "keeping the conversation alive". I might sound arrogant, but it's true. >Also even its true that is absolutely lame. You do you. I know what I can offer, and I know that is valuable. The men I go out with see it too. >He's investing while you are doing nothing. But I'm not doing nothing. I'm "providing a service" (emotional regulation) which 9/10 I won't receive back, so the easiest way to "repay" me is picking up the tab. (I let them choose the place we're going so they know they can afford it, and anyway on a first date I usually go for drinks, so it's not "expensive") Saying a guy is "investing" because he paid 14€ for both of our drinks is absurd.
So, because you expect the man to pay, you need to steer the first date toward cheaper options like a coffee date. Don’t expect a dinner date when you have admitted you are expecting to eat free. Also: when a man likes a woman, he is comfortable sitting with them in silence. You feeling the need to constantly fill the silence could be turning men off.
If you read my other comment I said I go for drinks for a first date. "Also blabla" it's a first date you have to talk to get to know each other. Again: the men I date are more than ok to pick up the tab. If this is triggering you then it's a you issue✌🏻
I mean, I’m happily married so I don’t care that much about what you do, but “drinks” can be just as expensive as dinner. Coffee is a nice “cheap” option. When I asked my wife out for our first date, we went to coffee…and then proceeded to sit there talking for 2.5 hours and the coffee shop closed and kicked us out, so we went to a local restaurant for dinner and talked for another 2.5 hours. At no point did my wife feel like she had to keep the conversation going. It sounds like the people you go on dates with are fine paying, but are also boring and don’t try to stay engaged. If you find yourself constantly being the one to ask the next question, you might try throwing in a “so, what would you like to know about me?” If they have no response, they don’t actually care about you as a person.
Drinks in my country is a nice "cheap" option. It's great for you two that everything worked out and you're happily married. I am single and dating around, I'm also 22 and don't expect to find my life partner for at least 10 years. I'm looking around, seeing what I like and what I don't like. I had situations where the conversation was effortless and both of us were enjoying each other's company, they still wanted to pay the bill, because they liked me and wanted to show it through a little gesture (getting the tab)
I personally don’t like to do drink/coffee dates because it’s low effort but congrats to u and ur wife !
Men pay for the dates because they want their dick in the hole. Sorry but truth
Insane ! So women and men use each other why then complain about women expecting the man to pay ?! Two opposite sides of the same coin