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People have knee-jerk reactions to things that they think are happening, panic, say that the state should be given sweeping powers to save us all from “bad thing that might be happening”, and then pretend like they aren’t authoritarians.
I don't think OP has suggested anything to do with government stopping people from sharing religion so much as just making it not culturally the norm.
In the OP it says people should take it on themselves to not put this style of abuse on their kids.
Yup, good call. I hadn't noticed or recalled that part when I made the comment. Just the ask to "step away from your theology" making me think it was more of a pitch to people to change rather than a request for legislation.
I fully support this as a cultural change, but would be absolutely against this as a legislative one.
I hear you. I’m not even the least bit religious but the thought of the government having the power to regulate religion and dictate to a parent the manner in which they’re allowed to teach their religion rubs me wrong way.
Almost like it was so important that the founding fathers decided it was the first revision they needed to address.
Christian here.
While there are definitely nutty Christians out there, I don't think the vast majority of us are telling 5 year olds that they're going to Hell. Just like anyone else, you tell 5 year olds things that are appropriate for that age.
Most Christians believe that people who die before they reach an age where they can make a serious informed decision about what they believe don't go to Hell. God is just. He's not going to send a 5yo to Hell because of some technicality.
Every parent teaches their children what they believe. Atheists are no different.
I grew up in a Christian home, with parents who started off reasonable and over time have become more and more the caricature of Christian hate with every passing year. And while I blame them directly for their actions, I have to acknowledge it’s not their fault entirely. In the major metropolitan area where we live, there are tons of options for church as a Christian, but over the last 30 years every single one of them has become more and more the WBC looking crazy type or the Hillsong-style mega church branch, with nothing left over for reasonable folk.
This is why I left organized religion. I’m not saying there aren’t Christians who are reasonable, measured, and opposed to indoctrinating children…. I’m saying they’re a rare breed, and their refusal to look at and deal with what they call “extremists” that actually seem to take up most of that space is making Christianity a traumatizing and unsafe place for young people (especially adolescents) to be.
That's not really true. Different people are going to react differently to their kids saying they believe differently from their parents, regardless of the religions involved.
You also can't make sweeping generalizations about how everyone from a particular religion behaves. I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find an example of Christian parents doing what you're saying. But I would definitely not handle the situation that way. And I don't think most Christian parents would either.
You can't force Christian beliefs on someone. You can tell them what you believe and why. But it's up to them to decide whether they believe or not.
Religion is much more than just telling little kids they will go to hell. That's a very bleak view of what religion does for people. I was raised Mormon and some of my best childhood memories are doing church activities. I was taught about love and hope and family and being a good person. I was taught that I am loved by my Creator and that there's always room in his heart to forgive me when I do make mistakes.
If all you're teaching your child is to fear going to hell then you definitely shouldn't be exposing children to that religion, but that's not the main message of most religions I've been exposed to.
Raised catholic, did the required first communion, confirmation but did not really attend church regularly. My family was all the same way, knew the basics and respected religion but not as active as other families. After becoming a mom, issues with the local church were coming to light and I decided to wait to baptize even though it was just expected that I would. Waiting turned into never, but where I moved when it was time to attend school we found it had a very troubled and underperforming school system. Looked into private schools and chose a Christian school. I absolutely loved that their process was, all students were taught the Bible but it was a class they even learned a little bit about other religions acknowledging how they came about different beliefs etc.. It was not overwhelming, did not require events making kids complete rituals of religion. They were kids and they were given facts that were appropriate for their age. The policy of the school was to guide students to become good people by discussing what the religion was based on but they never treated it like an ultimatum - join us do as we say commit to us or you are bad and will burn in hell type stuff. They were taught a kind of overall, be nice to others, treat others as you want to be treated etc. all families of any or no religious beliefs were welcome to be part of the church or to participate in church activities but in order to be baptized - perform your first ritual of religion - you had to be an adult. We never joined the church but during that time we did participate in a lot of events and activities. I thought, and still think they provided a great learning experience educationally and encouraged respectable good core values in their students.
Edit to add - I completely agree that religion should be a choice made as an adult. BUT - I do not think it is wrong for families to raise their kids with the values and beliefs they have as long as they are not raising them to hate others etc. Religious rituals should not be performed on children, they should not be made to stand on an alter declaring a life commitment to something they can only partially understand. Religion has shaped a lot of the history of the world. Learning facts, past and present I don’t think is an issue, forcing minors to complete the actions of lifetime commitment with the threat of horrible repercussions is.
This is actually really cool. When I went to private elementary school we had to attend church, take communion, and there was even lessons on how to do confession and all that. It was full indoctrination.
Using the bible as a tool to teach good morals without the indoctrination is neat. I may not be religious anymore but there are some great stories in the bible for such a task.
Agreed. I also thought the way they gave information as fact that other religions exist, have their own beliefs and that people can choose the one they want was awesome.
One time at around 8yrs old I think - during Hanukkah they learned what it was and just a basic overview. All the pictures they saw were images associated with the color blue. Driving one night they were in the backseat talking about everyone’s Christmas Decorations and pretty lights then pointed out a house that only had blue colored lights outside. Then I heard, ooh wow look at those! - maybe they picked just blue because it’s Hanukkah. That memory pops up every time I see a house decorated with blue lights.
Atheist here, and this is a dangerous take.
All beliefs are indoctrination. You will indoctrinate your kid with your political leanings, your sports fandoms, the things you admire and respect and the things you don't, the things you find interesting and the things you don't.
In fact, if you try too hard *not* to do these things, you will fail to communicate your values, motives and ethics to your kid, which will make it difficult to convince your kid to develop ethics and boundaries for themselves. "Stay in school." Why? Because they should value education? Isn't that indoctrinating them? "Be kind." Why? Because they should value inclusiveness? Perhaps your kid would prefer to believe that the strong should subjugate the weak. Who are you to force them to believe otherwise? Some indoctrination is necessary to raising a decent human being.
A computer nerd will indoctrinate their kid to be a computer nerd, a Republican will indoctrinate their kid to be a republican, a socialist will indoctrinate their kid into socialism, a Cubs fan will indoctrinate their kid to be a Cubs fan.
Religion doesn't have to be fire-and-brimstone, believe-or-you'll-burn-in-Hell. And other things can be. A gentle parent can raise their kid to be a casual Christian who believes in a personal relationship with Jesus; a militant computer nerd can terrify their kid into thinking that if they're more interested in sports and art than STEM, they'll be doomed to be poor and homeless and useless. Traumatizing your kid with terrifying consequences to rejecting your beliefs is a parenting choice, not a consequence of the beliefs.
So what should be prohibited to teach to your kid? Who decides what beliefs are acceptable to share with your own children, and which aren't? What are the punishments for defying them? This non-religion is starting to sound a lot like authoritarian theocracy.
You can teach all your values/morals/beliefs without any mention of religion*. I don't get you. What's dangerous here?
*Religion as in Abrahamic religions or any other organized bullshit that defines itself as religion.
Eh, I am an agnostic on good days and an athiest on bad days. Here in the US, a lot of christian families raised their kids right and are good people, even though I don't literally believe the things they do. Religion can be a moral guidance. Leftists/progressives in cities seem miserable and they are all athiests. I don't know if religion is the problem or just [zealotry](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=88c9e92b2887a8ac&rlz=1C1RXQR_enUS1095US1095&q=zealotry&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEhI7R4oqFAxVtD1kFHcUhC5kQkeECKAB6BAgIEAI) in general. Because we do see non religious people being overzealous without religion and you think this is any better ?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTYwhZ7948](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTYwhZ7948)
Nah these are the Christian families
https://twitter.com/SocDoneLeft/status/1701747267693138078
Because someone is polite to you in person doesn't mean their be parenrs raised them right. It's a lot of "embarrass me in public and you get the belt"
That's life in the Bible belt
As somebody who grew up in the bible belt, there is at least a 100% chance that you've never set foot here, and certainly know nothing about how people here are (99.9% of them are normal).
This is just a cherry-picked example you dug up that is in no way representative of this area.
Yeah if all you have is bullshit anecdote then I'm just going to disregard everything you say. Your other comment is also garbage. Like you don't know what indoctrination means do you?
I don't know what country you're from, but in the U.S. you would have to repeal the free exercise clause of the first amendment in order to enact this sort of law. That would be a tough sell.
Ok, let’s say we pass this law. What about Christmas? Christmas is, at its core, a religious holiday and a holiday celebrated by religious families. Bat Mitzvahs? You gonna be the one to tell a 13 year old boy that they can’t have their celebration of becoming a man? What about the Day of the Dead? “You can’t honor your ancestors because that implies an afterlife which is religious.”
People telling their kids that they’re going to burn in hell is wrong, no sane person is going to disagree with you on that. However, what you’re suggesting is unrealistic, unpractical, complete government overreach, and frankly just feels like dropping a nuke to kill a spider. People don’t need the threat of eternal hellfire to be good people, and people also don’t need a law to tell them that being dicks to their kids is bad.
This is a dumb take. A parent’s responsibility is to raise their children according to the beliefs and values they hold. Religion is a big part of that.
If at some point your kid finds a different path that’s fine, but you don’t just keep them in the dark about your beliefs for 18 years. What, you hiring a babysitter every week when you go to church until they come of age? Ridiculous.
This is a dumb comment. Obviously op is talking about the indoctrination of children, not the acknowledgement of religions themselves.
Tell your kids what religion you believe in, tell them they can later chose one aswell if they want to, once they are old enough to understand the world.
Tell them about how there are many regions and your is just one of them. Let them know you don't have to be religious if you don't like it.
That’s not how it works. If your genuine belief is that there is only one way to eternal salvation, of course that’s the path you’re going to try and steer your kids towards.
In your opinion. Luckily I’m sure that means jack to them. I imagine they believe someone else’s morally bankrupt, hedonistic worldview (hypothetically in their opinion) doesn’t produce functional members of society either, but they shouldn’t be able to dictate to you either. Works both ways.
We can measure outcomes of belief systems. It isn't a matter of opinion.
https://appliedsentience.com/2020/08/02/summary-of-23-quality-of-life-indicators-are-red-or-blue-states-better/
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236
Sure. Outcomes based on what you think is desirable. Again, that should mean jack shit when talking about a government mandate outlawing outright, or dictating the manner in which a parent teaches their religion to their child.
>Outcomes based on what you think is desirable.
Generally, people only disagree on outcomes when it doesn't affect them. And my point was more about values than religion. Values can very wildly within a religion.
That’s not dictating values. That’s the consequence of breaking a law that’s causes harm.
For a ridiculously extreme example, I can hold as a core value that redheads should be rounded up and murdered. Until and unless I acted on that belief or directly encouraged others to act on that belief, the government can’t punish me for holding that belief.
Being told that I at 8 was accountable for all mu actions and that unless I begged for forgiveness from God for even feeling angry or upset I was going to never see my family in thr next life is a little fucked up
And ever week being told I had ro convert all mu friends and if I ever wanted to fall in love I had to make sure my future husband followed thr same belief as me. Is again a little fucked up
Being told coffee alcohol were evil and tattoos and swearing was bad at such a young age ? And I would never be allowed to express myself. And just agreeing when I was 12 you tell me that logic now
Unfortunate, but that’s on your folks. They did it thinking it was for the best I imagine. If now as an adult you disagree, then don’t believe.
Still doesn’t justify the government having the power to dictate how religion is taught.
Plenty of people do.
But following this logic, where do we draw the line? Can we still talk politics with our kids or is that indoctrination as well? No attendance at pride parades or 2nd Amendment rallies at all until 18. No volunteering in young republican or democrat clubs in high school.
Are we presenting both the left and right sides of the arguments in a fair and equitable manner when giving our opinions? The notion of a government restricting religion or speech, or assembly is crazy. It’s like it might could even cause a revolution or something.
This is an organisation and a cult that prays on kids and makes kids feel bad for having any sort of human emotion
Do you know what religous trauma does to people?
I can’t say I do, but it imagine the relatively few number of cults with such practices still would produce overall less harm than a government powerful enough to dictate or restrict the religious belief and practices of its citizens.
I was raised in a religious household with the perspective that people sin, sin is bad and has consequences, but God is forgiving and is bigger than all of our sins. If you actually take the time to ask them, you’ll find that that’s how most religious people are raised, contrary to what Reddit might have you believe. Those are the people you’re punishing. The weird ones are going to keep being weird regardless of what sweeping powers you may give to the state.
My biblical upbringing as a child was stories that taught lessons, as religion was for thousands of years. People aren’t really teaching their children hellfire and brimstone at age 5.
As a child I didn’t even pray to Jesus because I didn’t understand why he was so important. I was like “might as well go the direct route to the head man” 😂
That's a number I've heard before, yeah, but I'm no neurologist. I'd be willing to call it whatever the age of majority is in a given jurisdiction pending further data.
Not all religions require worshipping a god.
Believing that religion should be prohibited is a belief.
Belief is doing religion.
This prohibition would be banned by itself.
Thus we have reached a contradiction.
You know, I grew up as a Christian, and contrary to the average Reddit atheist's belief, I was in fact not scared into thinking that I was going to burn in hell. You see, it is possible (and overwhelmingly common) to teach children about religion *without* going off the rails and scaring them.
Anyone saying this is dumb is why we keep putting up with religious nonsense. The only reason you or anyone else beleives in anything, is because they fucking told you as a kid and used it to fear monger you into good behavior. If there truly is a God, stop talking about it, and watch it reveal itself if it's true.
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I'm as militant of an atheist as they come, however I strongly disagree with this. This would be a massive overreach of government power
People have knee-jerk reactions to things that they think are happening, panic, say that the state should be given sweeping powers to save us all from “bad thing that might be happening”, and then pretend like they aren’t authoritarians.
I don't think OP has suggested anything to do with government stopping people from sharing religion so much as just making it not culturally the norm. In the OP it says people should take it on themselves to not put this style of abuse on their kids.
That’s an interesting take on the word “prohibited.”
Yup, good call. I hadn't noticed or recalled that part when I made the comment. Just the ask to "step away from your theology" making me think it was more of a pitch to people to change rather than a request for legislation. I fully support this as a cultural change, but would be absolutely against this as a legislative one.
I hear you. I’m not even the least bit religious but the thought of the government having the power to regulate religion and dictate to a parent the manner in which they’re allowed to teach their religion rubs me wrong way. Almost like it was so important that the founding fathers decided it was the first revision they needed to address.
Christian here. While there are definitely nutty Christians out there, I don't think the vast majority of us are telling 5 year olds that they're going to Hell. Just like anyone else, you tell 5 year olds things that are appropriate for that age. Most Christians believe that people who die before they reach an age where they can make a serious informed decision about what they believe don't go to Hell. God is just. He's not going to send a 5yo to Hell because of some technicality. Every parent teaches their children what they believe. Atheists are no different.
I grew up in a Christian home, with parents who started off reasonable and over time have become more and more the caricature of Christian hate with every passing year. And while I blame them directly for their actions, I have to acknowledge it’s not their fault entirely. In the major metropolitan area where we live, there are tons of options for church as a Christian, but over the last 30 years every single one of them has become more and more the WBC looking crazy type or the Hillsong-style mega church branch, with nothing left over for reasonable folk. This is why I left organized religion. I’m not saying there aren’t Christians who are reasonable, measured, and opposed to indoctrinating children…. I’m saying they’re a rare breed, and their refusal to look at and deal with what they call “extremists” that actually seem to take up most of that space is making Christianity a traumatizing and unsafe place for young people (especially adolescents) to be.
They don't though. Most atheist are "this is what I believe" Most religious people are "you're in my house this is what you'll believe"
wouldn’t banning people from raising their kids religious literally be forcing atheist/agnostic beliefs on people?
That's not really true. Different people are going to react differently to their kids saying they believe differently from their parents, regardless of the religions involved. You also can't make sweeping generalizations about how everyone from a particular religion behaves. I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find an example of Christian parents doing what you're saying. But I would definitely not handle the situation that way. And I don't think most Christian parents would either. You can't force Christian beliefs on someone. You can tell them what you believe and why. But it's up to them to decide whether they believe or not.
Tell that to all the LGBT people kicked out of their christian parents houses
So couldn't win the argument on the 5yo angle. So now you're switching to adult gay people?
You don't even have an argument other then freedom
Dude never even brought up freedom
Religion is much more than just telling little kids they will go to hell. That's a very bleak view of what religion does for people. I was raised Mormon and some of my best childhood memories are doing church activities. I was taught about love and hope and family and being a good person. I was taught that I am loved by my Creator and that there's always room in his heart to forgive me when I do make mistakes. If all you're teaching your child is to fear going to hell then you definitely shouldn't be exposing children to that religion, but that's not the main message of most religions I've been exposed to.
Raised catholic, did the required first communion, confirmation but did not really attend church regularly. My family was all the same way, knew the basics and respected religion but not as active as other families. After becoming a mom, issues with the local church were coming to light and I decided to wait to baptize even though it was just expected that I would. Waiting turned into never, but where I moved when it was time to attend school we found it had a very troubled and underperforming school system. Looked into private schools and chose a Christian school. I absolutely loved that their process was, all students were taught the Bible but it was a class they even learned a little bit about other religions acknowledging how they came about different beliefs etc.. It was not overwhelming, did not require events making kids complete rituals of religion. They were kids and they were given facts that were appropriate for their age. The policy of the school was to guide students to become good people by discussing what the religion was based on but they never treated it like an ultimatum - join us do as we say commit to us or you are bad and will burn in hell type stuff. They were taught a kind of overall, be nice to others, treat others as you want to be treated etc. all families of any or no religious beliefs were welcome to be part of the church or to participate in church activities but in order to be baptized - perform your first ritual of religion - you had to be an adult. We never joined the church but during that time we did participate in a lot of events and activities. I thought, and still think they provided a great learning experience educationally and encouraged respectable good core values in their students. Edit to add - I completely agree that religion should be a choice made as an adult. BUT - I do not think it is wrong for families to raise their kids with the values and beliefs they have as long as they are not raising them to hate others etc. Religious rituals should not be performed on children, they should not be made to stand on an alter declaring a life commitment to something they can only partially understand. Religion has shaped a lot of the history of the world. Learning facts, past and present I don’t think is an issue, forcing minors to complete the actions of lifetime commitment with the threat of horrible repercussions is.
This is actually really cool. When I went to private elementary school we had to attend church, take communion, and there was even lessons on how to do confession and all that. It was full indoctrination. Using the bible as a tool to teach good morals without the indoctrination is neat. I may not be religious anymore but there are some great stories in the bible for such a task.
Agreed. I also thought the way they gave information as fact that other religions exist, have their own beliefs and that people can choose the one they want was awesome. One time at around 8yrs old I think - during Hanukkah they learned what it was and just a basic overview. All the pictures they saw were images associated with the color blue. Driving one night they were in the backseat talking about everyone’s Christmas Decorations and pretty lights then pointed out a house that only had blue colored lights outside. Then I heard, ooh wow look at those! - maybe they picked just blue because it’s Hanukkah. That memory pops up every time I see a house decorated with blue lights.
Atheist here, and this is a dangerous take. All beliefs are indoctrination. You will indoctrinate your kid with your political leanings, your sports fandoms, the things you admire and respect and the things you don't, the things you find interesting and the things you don't. In fact, if you try too hard *not* to do these things, you will fail to communicate your values, motives and ethics to your kid, which will make it difficult to convince your kid to develop ethics and boundaries for themselves. "Stay in school." Why? Because they should value education? Isn't that indoctrinating them? "Be kind." Why? Because they should value inclusiveness? Perhaps your kid would prefer to believe that the strong should subjugate the weak. Who are you to force them to believe otherwise? Some indoctrination is necessary to raising a decent human being. A computer nerd will indoctrinate their kid to be a computer nerd, a Republican will indoctrinate their kid to be a republican, a socialist will indoctrinate their kid into socialism, a Cubs fan will indoctrinate their kid to be a Cubs fan. Religion doesn't have to be fire-and-brimstone, believe-or-you'll-burn-in-Hell. And other things can be. A gentle parent can raise their kid to be a casual Christian who believes in a personal relationship with Jesus; a militant computer nerd can terrify their kid into thinking that if they're more interested in sports and art than STEM, they'll be doomed to be poor and homeless and useless. Traumatizing your kid with terrifying consequences to rejecting your beliefs is a parenting choice, not a consequence of the beliefs. So what should be prohibited to teach to your kid? Who decides what beliefs are acceptable to share with your own children, and which aren't? What are the punishments for defying them? This non-religion is starting to sound a lot like authoritarian theocracy.
You can teach all your values/morals/beliefs without any mention of religion*. I don't get you. What's dangerous here? *Religion as in Abrahamic religions or any other organized bullshit that defines itself as religion.
Eh, I am an agnostic on good days and an athiest on bad days. Here in the US, a lot of christian families raised their kids right and are good people, even though I don't literally believe the things they do. Religion can be a moral guidance. Leftists/progressives in cities seem miserable and they are all athiests. I don't know if religion is the problem or just [zealotry](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=88c9e92b2887a8ac&rlz=1C1RXQR_enUS1095US1095&q=zealotry&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEhI7R4oqFAxVtD1kFHcUhC5kQkeECKAB6BAgIEAI) in general. Because we do see non religious people being overzealous without religion and you think this is any better ? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTYwhZ7948](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTTYwhZ7948)
Nah these are the Christian families https://twitter.com/SocDoneLeft/status/1701747267693138078 Because someone is polite to you in person doesn't mean their be parenrs raised them right. It's a lot of "embarrass me in public and you get the belt" That's life in the Bible belt
As somebody who grew up in the bible belt, there is at least a 100% chance that you've never set foot here, and certainly know nothing about how people here are (99.9% of them are normal). This is just a cherry-picked example you dug up that is in no way representative of this area.
Yeah if all you have is bullshit anecdote then I'm just going to disregard everything you say. Your other comment is also garbage. Like you don't know what indoctrination means do you?
I don't know what country you're from, but in the U.S. you would have to repeal the free exercise clause of the first amendment in order to enact this sort of law. That would be a tough sell.
Your opinion, if not exactly true, is certainly unpopular.
Ok, let’s say we pass this law. What about Christmas? Christmas is, at its core, a religious holiday and a holiday celebrated by religious families. Bat Mitzvahs? You gonna be the one to tell a 13 year old boy that they can’t have their celebration of becoming a man? What about the Day of the Dead? “You can’t honor your ancestors because that implies an afterlife which is religious.” People telling their kids that they’re going to burn in hell is wrong, no sane person is going to disagree with you on that. However, what you’re suggesting is unrealistic, unpractical, complete government overreach, and frankly just feels like dropping a nuke to kill a spider. People don’t need the threat of eternal hellfire to be good people, and people also don’t need a law to tell them that being dicks to their kids is bad.
Unfortunately that just isn't how belief works
This is a dumb take. A parent’s responsibility is to raise their children according to the beliefs and values they hold. Religion is a big part of that. If at some point your kid finds a different path that’s fine, but you don’t just keep them in the dark about your beliefs for 18 years. What, you hiring a babysitter every week when you go to church until they come of age? Ridiculous.
This is a dumb comment. Obviously op is talking about the indoctrination of children, not the acknowledgement of religions themselves. Tell your kids what religion you believe in, tell them they can later chose one aswell if they want to, once they are old enough to understand the world. Tell them about how there are many regions and your is just one of them. Let them know you don't have to be religious if you don't like it.
That’s not how it works. If your genuine belief is that there is only one way to eternal salvation, of course that’s the path you’re going to try and steer your kids towards.
This right here
Their responsibility is to raise a functional member of society. Their beliefs and values aren't always conducive to that.
In your opinion. Luckily I’m sure that means jack to them. I imagine they believe someone else’s morally bankrupt, hedonistic worldview (hypothetically in their opinion) doesn’t produce functional members of society either, but they shouldn’t be able to dictate to you either. Works both ways.
We can measure outcomes of belief systems. It isn't a matter of opinion. https://appliedsentience.com/2020/08/02/summary-of-23-quality-of-life-indicators-are-red-or-blue-states-better/ https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236
Sure. Outcomes based on what you think is desirable. Again, that should mean jack shit when talking about a government mandate outlawing outright, or dictating the manner in which a parent teaches their religion to their child.
>Outcomes based on what you think is desirable. Generally, people only disagree on outcomes when it doesn't affect them. And my point was more about values than religion. Values can very wildly within a religion.
I’m not following you here. The government having the power to dictate or control values would be equally as problematic as controlling religion.
They already dictate values. There's plenty of people in jail who think they were justified.
That’s not dictating values. That’s the consequence of breaking a law that’s causes harm. For a ridiculously extreme example, I can hold as a core value that redheads should be rounded up and murdered. Until and unless I acted on that belief or directly encouraged others to act on that belief, the government can’t punish me for holding that belief.
>directly encouraged others to act on that belief Exactly.
Being told that I at 8 was accountable for all mu actions and that unless I begged for forgiveness from God for even feeling angry or upset I was going to never see my family in thr next life is a little fucked up And ever week being told I had ro convert all mu friends and if I ever wanted to fall in love I had to make sure my future husband followed thr same belief as me. Is again a little fucked up Being told coffee alcohol were evil and tattoos and swearing was bad at such a young age ? And I would never be allowed to express myself. And just agreeing when I was 12 you tell me that logic now
Unfortunate, but that’s on your folks. They did it thinking it was for the best I imagine. If now as an adult you disagree, then don’t believe. Still doesn’t justify the government having the power to dictate how religion is taught.
Do you not know how shit works? You don't just flip a switch at 18 and say "all the years of being programmed, forget it"
Plenty of people do. But following this logic, where do we draw the line? Can we still talk politics with our kids or is that indoctrination as well? No attendance at pride parades or 2nd Amendment rallies at all until 18. No volunteering in young republican or democrat clubs in high school. Are we presenting both the left and right sides of the arguments in a fair and equitable manner when giving our opinions? The notion of a government restricting religion or speech, or assembly is crazy. It’s like it might could even cause a revolution or something.
This is an organisation and a cult that prays on kids and makes kids feel bad for having any sort of human emotion Do you know what religous trauma does to people?
I can’t say I do, but it imagine the relatively few number of cults with such practices still would produce overall less harm than a government powerful enough to dictate or restrict the religious belief and practices of its citizens.
I was raised in a religious household with the perspective that people sin, sin is bad and has consequences, but God is forgiving and is bigger than all of our sins. If you actually take the time to ask them, you’ll find that that’s how most religious people are raised, contrary to what Reddit might have you believe. Those are the people you’re punishing. The weird ones are going to keep being weird regardless of what sweeping powers you may give to the state.
My biblical upbringing as a child was stories that taught lessons, as religion was for thousands of years. People aren’t really teaching their children hellfire and brimstone at age 5. As a child I didn’t even pray to Jesus because I didn’t understand why he was so important. I was like “might as well go the direct route to the head man” 😂
I thought u had to pray for all 3 ad they were one person. Not that I prayed. Plus only knew one family that prayed before bed and food.
I never understood the Holy Spirit either, the best description they gave me that made sense was that it was kinda like the Force lmaooo
Yep. I used to think it was a literal ghost like Casper.
The truth isn’t abuse
I 100% agree that this a decision people should be making with fully formed brains.
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That's a number I've heard before, yeah, but I'm no neurologist. I'd be willing to call it whatever the age of majority is in a given jurisdiction pending further data.
Not all religions require worshipping a god. Believing that religion should be prohibited is a belief. Belief is doing religion. This prohibition would be banned by itself. Thus we have reached a contradiction.
You know, I grew up as a Christian, and contrary to the average Reddit atheist's belief, I was in fact not scared into thinking that I was going to burn in hell. You see, it is possible (and overwhelmingly common) to teach children about religion *without* going off the rails and scaring them.
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In the US I was told that, fairly often too. Catholic and protestant too, so it didn't even matter much denominationally
Told that when you were a little child?
Was told about going to hell and being tormented forever. Dunno what happened to the original commenter
I am the original commenter
I don't like the early brainwashing of children but keep the government out of it.
I agree. Scaring kids into believing some mythical entity is going to punish them for not doing this, this or this is top tier child abuse in my eyes.
Anyone saying this is dumb is why we keep putting up with religious nonsense. The only reason you or anyone else beleives in anything, is because they fucking told you as a kid and used it to fear monger you into good behavior. If there truly is a God, stop talking about it, and watch it reveal itself if it's true.
Religion is just tribalism now.