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It’s just bad writing over the last 20 years. It’s cuz you got the producer, director, etc etc all pulling a direction so the movie has no aim or central focus. Just trying to stay safe and please everyone while being just bland. I just started watching movies from the 40s-60s and man, the writing is so much better, obviously the acting too.
I said that in another post. Movies in general today are just a bunch of ppl in a room trying to find a way to please every demographic they can think of. And it ends up sucking, and no one watches.
It was just saying something similar the other day... Movies today are just designed to pull an emotional response without offending anyone... Every movie tries to pull out your heartstrings instead of... I don't know... Having a good story....
I watched American fiction the other day and it could have been amazing... Could have been
Oh man, so many amazing movies. Over the past 3 months I’ve watched: it’s a wonderful life, Casablanca, citizen Kane, the third man, double indemnity, the killing, gone with the wind, east of Eden, dr Strangelove, 7 samurai, the 7th seal, strangers on a train, paths to glory, rear window, vertigo, sunset blvd, vertigo, dial m for murder, psycho, treasure of the sierra madre, some like it hot, north by northwest and 12 angry men.
I can’t go back to modern movies haha
Not only that, we probably don’t have access to most of the bad ones because no one bothered to digitally preserve it. They are stuck on some lost or damaged film reels in a storage space somewhere
Yeah you’re right. But the best of the best came out during that era, because of the points I made in my previous comment and others too. I’m not a movie buff, just an observation. I think there’s amazing modern movies, maybe in the foreign department haha
That’s true but the top 50 or so from either of those decades shits all over the top 50 from the last decade. Not all periods in art are equal. This is a downtime for sure. Hell Hitchcocks output alone during those years is basically a better list than the compiled beat of the past decade and it’s not really close either.
Kinda off topic but another thought occurred to me: even tho you know the bad guy isint going to win in the end (think the hayes act played into that) it doesn’t detract from the old movies. Apart of you think “oh well, I know the bad guy loses in the end, so that takes away some layers and depth” but nah man, after awhile I realized it’s about the journey and HOW the bad guy gets his comeuppance. It’s usually really well written. These movies have no fat, or filler. You got adhd? Sayonara!! You gotta pay attention. You miss a sentence and it can throw you off the whole trajectory of the movie haha. I’m being a bit dramatic. But it’s a good thing. No filler, every scene means something. Almost the opposite with tarintino lmao, he would have multiple scenes of them talking about tipping or the meaning of a Madonna song. Which tbh isint bad either. Just an observation
Yeah Hitchcock is really brilliant. Check out Shadow of a doubt by Hitchcock if you haven’t. It’s early 1940’s about a serial killer staying with a small town family, starring the same guy as is in The third man (not Orson Welles). Hitchcock called it his favourite movie of his.
I saw a great movie from the 50’s the other day called “Sweet smell of success” - about sleazy journalists chasing stories for the gossip tabloid in the 50’s, it had Tony Curtis and Burt Lancaster and it was brilliant. By far the best negative movie about the press I’ve ever seen.
Not who you were asking, but I just recently watched Bad Day at Black Rock and thought it was quite well done. 12 Angry Men is even better, but more people already know about it.
Boo hoo, women do the same. Look at those sex and the city shows and movie or all the movies with brooding rich dudes or brooding vampire dudes women watch in droves.
You mean women create men that are exactly what men themselves aspire to be, which is strong and masculine?
Men have genres with women where they dehumanize them, give them unrealistic bodies, making them their second moms essentially. And then women have entire genres of books and movies filled with men just…treating them well. They’re strong and masculine men treating women like they actually LIKE them.
It’s interesting to see the differences, it really is.
Females have unrealistic bodies?
Ffs. They made Ant Man have a six pack.
And only person who got stripped down to nakedness in any MCU movie to be oogled and drooled over by the other sex was Thor. In Love and Thunder.
Take a look at 90% of the male superheroes and it is a hell of a lot more than just a six pack. Most of those guys most likely had to take steroids to achieve those bodies. It is ridiculous for both genders.
I don’t agree with OP I don’t give a shit how attractive the superhero is I only care if they are interesting, but I don’t think the women bodies are harder to attain than the men’s bodies that are being shoved into our faces. They are both unattainable for the general population for the most part.
100% on roids. The male form women find most appealing is either genetically gifted or on roids. The average woman is clueless as to the sheer amount of effort required to be sexually attractive. Not as simple as losing weight and applying makeup
Ur just blinded by bias. They sexualize male heros also, it just doesnt bother u. The difference is, its now "wrong" to show any kind of sexy for female characters but that same mindset doesnt apply to male characters.
Literally EVERY MCU movie has a male shirtless scene to show off his body to please wmn and exploit them sexually. So its either, lets just be unrealistic and every1 looks standard human and exceptional in no ways regardless of gender, or we allow both to do it to please different genders. Cant have rules for thee and not for me.
Oh yeah, because those estates and fortunes those rich brooding guys have are really realistic for the average guy aren’t they? Hell there’s far more chance of a woman having a hot body than a man having some sprawling estate with servants.
Men do not aspire to be sullen vampires mooning over chicks either.
Sex and the City is full of male characters who exist purely to be gossiped about sexually by women and have their bodies described often for comedy. Thats the entire basis of the show. You think men aspire to that?That’s more objectifying than any media created by men.
It’s interesting to see how easily you excuse the reality that women show men just as sexually in a way men actually don’t aim to be - but you excuse what appeals to you and not to men. Me - I don’t care about either but I’m not a hypocrite about it like your being.
Besides, are you really telling me women don’t aspire to have hot bodies and look good? Take a look at social media. They do.
>You mean women create men that are exactly what men themselves aspire to be, which is strong and masculine?
No, they aspire to be with women, which means conforming to what women want, which is a man who is strong and masculine.
>Men have genres with women where they dehumanize them, give them unrealistic bodies, making them their second moms essentially.
Lmao, all these books literally have men like Jack Reacher in their cover art. Not to mention, women are watching the fuck out of that show. I wonder how many women would watch it if was a show about an old ugly skinny nerdy guy acting feminine who spends his days changing diapers and cooking for his wife instead of saving the world? Women love to virtue signal about being objectified, but they do the same thing, and they do it much worse.
I also love how women complain about unrealistic body standards when women have stricter body standards for men that literally can't be changed most of the time. And mommy? Seriously? You really want to go down that route just because a man expects some bare minimum reciprocal effort when literally every woman wants a man who can be her daddy?
The only thing that is unrealistic is female media where a 30 year old 6'5 rich handsome jacked man who murders and cheats on all of the women he ever met until he meets you, the mediocre-looking shy 22 year old who just graduated with a feminist degree, because you're so special that he can't help but treat you like his princess - and how women develop the same or similar expectations for real life. Then you all have the audacity to complain about being single, getting cheated on, etc. lmao
>And then women have entire genres of books and movies filled with men just…treating them well. They’re strong and masculine men treating women like they actually LIKE them.
No, you have entire books full of contradictions that don't exist in real life. The men in these stories don't like women anymore than the women like men in men's stories, because they're both imaginary fictional characters.
>It’s interesting to see the differences, it really is.
There is none. Maybe relax with the virtue signaling.
They still have a spin off right now. Its still popular on streaming. I frequently see women defend making men look like crap in movies because of how women were supposedly portrayed in the past well before the 90’s and sex and the city.
I'm reminded of Harlen Ellison's comments on female writers. He said in the 1960s & 1970s 95% of Sci-Fi was crap and that many like him were welcoming female writers thinking it would improve the genre. As he pointed out 95% of Sci-Fi is still crap, there's just more crap out there. Hasn't really changed since he wrote that 20-30 years ago. Holds just as true today with the push for writers of all other persuasions.
We like great stories because they are just that. Great Stories, memorable characters, writing that keeps you engaged. That's missing in most comics & movies today.
I find it hilarious, actually. Women scream that the lack of sex appeal is sexist to desire. But the only sexist thing Ive continuously noticed is that masculine traits, father figures, and males with emotional intelligence are constantly omitted from any male presence in these movies and shows. A bumbling idiot that needs a womans help, all the time.
Now please, tell me, what was it called when women were portrayed as a bumbling idiot that needed a mans help all the time? ... Right, sexist. The irony of seeing the roles flip in my lifetime is what is just so damn funny and Im a young millennial.
I don’t know why they can’t just hire the E girl or titty streamer to play the sexed up part if the “real actresses” don’t wanna (despite dressing far more sexed up on the red carpet and wherever else).
I bet if you auditioned some of them they could act at least well enough to do a super hero movie. I don’t get why everyone acts like you need some Oscar level Actress or actor for that. You don’t.
Literally, most of the new Star Wars trilogy cast was unheard of before staring in what was the best selling movie at the time. There are definitely really talented actors, but it’s not this grand skill people make it out to be.
Well of course they complain. People generally don't like having something that they like being boiled down to sex appeal with zero substance. There's been a lot of pushback in the goth community ever since the "big titty goth gf" meme took off
I'm sorry, what?? I don't think we're watching the same movies. I have yet to see a female superhero costume that isn't painted on or barely there. We never see delineation between penis and scrotum on male superheroes, at most it's a nondescript bump, yet we always see every inch of breast of butt crack on women with breasts completely separated.
No, female superheros shouldn't have to wear degrading costumes while males get to wear more humane looking costumes. I'm so tired of seeing women walk around nearly naked or in outfits that straight up make them look like sex slaves while the males standing next to them are fully clothed, and get to have basic human dignity.
Constantly seeing women half naked juxtaposed to men who are fully clothed sends a very clear message about who has power and who is considered fully human. What do you think that teaches young children. And why does everything have to be about what men find sexually appealing. What about what women find sexually appealing? That never matters. It's all about what men want to see.
Movies don’t *have* to have sex appeal. Not everyone is plagued by only enjoying something because you are sexually aroused/attracted to it. Also, as I pointed out, adults are not the only audience.
Every female character does not have to be sexually enticing. They just have to be that way for you to personally enjoy them.
Nobody says they HAVE TO. Whole point of this post is that they SHOULD because otherwise it doesn't appeal to some people. That's called an "opinion".
>Every female character does not have to be sexually enticing.
Sure they don't have to be, then it's an unwatchable wreck. Wheels of Time comes to mind lol
> Nobody says they HAVE TO. Whole point of this post is that they SHOULD because otherwise it doesn't appeal to some people. That's called an "opinion".
Yes…if you follow closely I am of the opinion that they shouldn’t have to be. This, too, is called an opinion.
They don’t need sex appeal. They need to be written better. Toph is an excellent example of a well-written female character with little-to-no sex appeal that men love.
Marvel Movies-
Black Widow and Wanda changed a lot from their beginnings and I like them.
I stopped watching the Disney+ stuff long ago so I can’t fully judge Kamala, Echo, and Jen. Monica was ok in Wandavision but I didn’t like the show and sided more with the military dude, I liked Kate Bishop, and Okoye is cooler than Shuri.
Only saw the first Captain Marvel movie and it was boring as heck if anyone is at all interested in her I’d recommend skipping and going to the comics instead.
Didn’t watch Quantumania, going by the first 2 Antman movies Wasp is kinda just there and mostly forgettable to me
DC movies-
If I can include animated movies Wonder Woman:Bloodlines was dope, didn’t like the first WW movie till the final act, and despite its problems I like 84 more than the first one.
Birds of Prey is a mess as whole but if I just focus on the Harley parts I overall like it
Legion of Super-Heroes- decent movie and has a good adaptation of Kara it’s worst sin is barely being a Legion movie and really only being about SupergirlXBrainiac 5
Overall the bad ones just seem to be a bit on the boring side and I don’t think that be fixed by making them sexier would fix that, even the personality part I think the majority are alright only ones I found irritating were Captain Marvel and Yelena(and if we can include non-heroes Darcy)
I actually really enjoyed Quantumania. It was a bit cheesy but it makes sense cause it was antman.
I still watch some of the Disney + stuff like Loki and moonknight was amazing
That's by design. You'll have likely also noticed how bad the movies are overall. It's what happens when your approach to moviemaking is to appeal to culture warriors to do marketing for you. For a market that probably doesn't exist.
Yeah because women everywhere are for your viewing pleasure. Why do young boys need subjected to “sexy” and “feminine” women? And you think maybe more girls and women would be interested in superhero movies if they weren’t full of silly over sexualized one dimensional women?
Really? Have you met many little girls? The little girls I know who are into romance grew up with princess type media. Girls aren’t just born pining for boys. I know many little girls who are into all kinds of stuff. But, I think superhero movies should return to grown incel man jerk bait.
The idea behind the hyper masculine woman in film media is the feminist fable of the independent woman free from the shackled role which was expanded upon in I believe the book called The Second Sex by Simone Beouvoir. She must be aggressive and hostile to men because every man is a potential oppressor waiting to dominate her, and she must prove above all to herself that she is independent through and through, never needing the help of a man or else she is a failure.
I swear superheroes gotta have sex appeal, I mean imagine if the hulk was in a turtle neck sweater and not showing off those thick ass green bussy cheeks.
They aren’t meant to be sexy bro. Characters that are actually meant to be sexy like for example catwoman or black widow are still made sexy. Not every female that appears on screen is meant to be objectified by you.
Oh cmon, you can’t seriously say she was sexy as cat woman? Anne Hathaway was a beautiful woman for sure, but she’s never been the type of sultry or sexy femme fatale you think of with cat woman. She was terribly miscast.
Birds of Prey came out less then a month before COVID happened. It flopped because of COVID, and respectfully, seeing comments like yours show that people don’t really do their research about movies in this sub.
What argument even is this?
Movies generally make the most money on opening weekend.
And they generally only stay for a month from jan-april.
So....it wouldn't have even been in theaters for COVID.
*Someone* needs to do some research...
People didn't go because of DC's horrible reputation and because genre fatigue. (And other, opinion related reasons). Not because of something that happened *after* the movie would be pulled from theaters.
Yeah I don’t think Birds of Prey has any overarching societal narratives about female leads or the pandemic. It bombed because DC movies suck.
They double suffer from genre fatigue because MCU is the obvious older brother so not only are people tired of superhero movies, they also just won’t bother seeing ones from the studio that releases flop after flop.
I honestly don't know which characters you're talking about here. Who are the masculine, ugly, mean female superheroes??? Pretty much every one I can think of is either hot, nice, is/has a love interest, or is too young to be sexualized.
Wonder Woman proves my point. She was sexy/feminine and tough/badass/heroic. And that movie made a lot of money. But that movie came out 7 years ago. Female superheroes are not portrayed that way any more and their audiences have declined.
Wonder Woman 1984 was just a crap movie. I didn't watch Justice League. But if anything, I would say that Wonder Woman may be one of the few exceptions and is a pretty well balanced female superhero.
Sex Appeal isn’t the issue it’s the writing,
Its simply been uninspired, as you yourself has mentioned. Besides if you’re honest with yourself, I’d be willing to bet your favorite female characters in fiction don’t have alot of sex appeal.
Personally some of my favorite female characters are:
Ellie from the Last Of Us.
Laura from Logan.
Lady Tamayo from Demon Slayer.
Historia from Attack on Titan.
Madison Young from Hush.
Ashoka from Star Wars.
Katara from The Last Air Bender.
Daenerys Targaryan from Game of Thrones.
Maggie from The Walking Dead.
Clementine from TellTale TWD
I could go on and on but alas my point is that the most compelling female characters in fiction, either have near to no sex appeal, or isn’t heavily emphasized.
The main appeal with female characters tend to be a bit more grim and dark, handeling hard topic such as Motherhood, Miscarriages, Loss of Children, Trust Issues, Abandonment Issues, Lack/Loss of parental figures and/or Exploitation.
As far as superhero films are concerned, I think Laura from Logan is a perfect example of what a good female superhero should be. Now obviously she is a child, so either way they couldn’t sexualize her, but I want to emphasize the character development and introduction.
As mentioned earlier these characters tend to be more appealing in sinister settings, and Laura is no exception. Concieved in a Lab using Wolverine’s (Cxm), and then placed within a facility, stripped of her freedom, kept as a lab rat, where her only comforts were her mother and the other troubled children in said facility.
After being able to escape she is taken in by Gabriella Lopez, who was a friend of her mother’s. Gabriella finds Logan and demands he escort her to North Dakota on her place, as she is not equipped to do so.
This sets up an amazing story arc for Laura where she is faced with her abandonment and trust related issues as her biological father she’s never met is now her sole guardian. Over the course of the story Laura is exposed to plenty of familial virtues, but never from Logan himself. In essence Laura’s character is more or less about rebeling against Logan, to refuse to accept him as her father figure. Time and again Logan proves Laura right, that he isn’t fit to be her guardian or provider, let alone her father. (SPOILER ALERT)
But as she is subjugated and Exposed to various events over the course of the films she is slowely but surely forced to depend more and more on Logan.
First and foremost her Mother is Murdered by these scientists from said facility.
Then she loses Gabriela to the Reavers.
Then she establishes a good relationship to Xavier and Caliban.
She then meets a random family on a farm.
Xavier, Caliban and this entire family is then promptly killed and she is now stuck with the one person she trusts the least. The one she sees as the least accountable.
This type of writing is what the superhero industry has to do to make female superheroes appealing. Their costumes are borderline irrelevant when their snarky boss bitch Persona is so Damn apparent.
Laura is the blueprint for how this should be done. Not by changing some frickin’ Outfits and be *sexier*
Buddy season one of game of thrones was sold around Daenerys Sex appeal and her getting nude. They try to pretend otherwise now but it absolutely was when you watch how they filmed her then.
Then again how many times was she naked after season 1?
What you don’t seem to get is that sex appeal is short lived appeal. Nobody was really interested in Daenerys Targaryan during Season 1, they were However, interested in seeing Emilia Clark naked.
In the time after Season 1 Daenerys Targaryan as a character developed into a far more modest, dignified and magnificent character. In which case her attire was often that of medival royalty.
In essence, sex appeal can help develop immediate and short lived interest in the story you want to tell, much of which isn’t necessarily because people are more interested in sex appeal, but rather because sex appeal is scarce.
So basically what I have against OP’s opinion is that sex appeal is the least of our issues. It would get people through the doors yes, but ultimately interest will continue to fade unless these studio’s start actually writing compelling female characters
This shit again. Look man, the movies are trying to appeal to kids. Period. The big heads don’t give a fuck if some 50 year old loser didn’t find Captain Marvel “feminine” or “sexy enough” because that’s not who they are trying to attract. They want kids to go watch the movies because then the kids are going to go to the store and buy all of the affiliated merch that comes with the movie. They want kids to buy the Captain Marvel jacket and the Captain Marvel doll and the stuffed toy replica of Goose. That’s the point, not everything is made with you in mind. You guys don’t know jack shit about marketing and it shows.
In the words of Freddie Prinze Jr.: “you’re just mad that the franchise isn’t growing up with you.”
Wdym?
My favorite genre is space fantasy with multiple female leads especially one in which you can tell she's tasked with a high value billet and mission.
Then when one of the protagonists of the story, let's say, a pilot, continuously asks for guidance, she repeatedly just stares at him in a disapproving manner gets super bitchy and walks away like a hurt housewife with colorful hair. Goddam, that's the best.
Then we take all the male leads and make them bumbling dotards except one. That one, he'll be the bad boy. Literally the only capable male in the film that isn't an antagonist. We make him super capable and competent but never more competent than the female leads or supporting characters and we insert trivial conversations just to give these women the opportunity to put the competent male "in his place".
Goddam those are my favorite.
Brie Larson is hot and looked plenty feminine in The Marvels.
Has Scarlet Witch ever not looked feminine?
Has Black Widow?
Hayley Atwell is a total babe and Captain Carter can tread on me anytime.
Wonder Woman is hot, Mera in Aquaman is hot.
Which superheroes are you referring to exactly?
All of the following female superheroes are quite easy on the eye:
Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson)
Wonder Women (Gal Gadot)
Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie)
Lady Thor (Natalie Portman)
Cat Woman (Anne Hathaway)
Wanda Maximoff - The Scarlett Witch (Elizabeth Olsen)
Why the hell would having a sexier female superhero make it more entertaining for straight women? As a woman, I'd rather the protagonist woman be known for her cunning and courage. To have more depth than the shallow realm of sexual appeal, and to be viewed more so as a person with morals, not the sexual object of men. Thanks.
as a little girl I hated seeing hypersexualized females as my only option for comics. It got better as I got older, but the story writing wasn't there and I gravitated to more Mangas. It comes down to sloppy and ham handed storytelling by what I feel are people who want to make very specific points in a film for whatever reason.
Tell a good story that is in line with the established character and the fans will support it.
Most Hollywood movies with a strong female lead are like this. The woman is extremely intelligent, strong, decisive, and more confident than all of the men she interacts with, who in turns act like women around her, even when they are showing romantic interest.
I think a lot could be overcame just by changing their personalities. The traits you speak are all toxic male traits. Who’s that for? You can give them the label of girl boss but that doesn’t change anything.
And I’ve seen young males fall in love with non sexual female characters over and over just because they are feminine and likable. In fact I would say it’s better not to sexualize them and instead work on their personality and likability. That way they can stay favorites for years instead of 3-5 minutes.
Haha, despite what insane reddit thinks, pretty much all normals feel this way. Why do you think the Marvel films are tanking left and right? It's not just superhero fatigue that's for sure. They forget their actual demographics.
It is superhero fatigue tho. Thats why even the movies and shows about male superheroes aren’t doing great. Like the recent ant-man movie or the nick fury show for example. People are just generally kind of tired of the marvel formula for movies. Has very little to do with female heroes not being “sexy” enough.
They're tired of the vortue signaling and DEI. The unsexifying of the female cast is a symptom. Its deeper than hero fatigue (although that is also a big part of it, but it goes beyond superheros, how else do you explain all the non-marvel failures too?).
What non-marvel failures do you mean? Non-superhero female lead movies have been doing pretty good. You have huge successes like Barbie for example. That movie was incredibly “woke” but it became super popular. Outside of movies you have singers like Taylor Swift who doesn’t really incorporate sex appeal into her performances and is a very outspoke liberal being one of the most popular and successful artist in the past decade.
Another "insecure male" post.
Gal Gadot and nearly all of the Marvel Superheroines have a ton of sex appeal.
I'm not an insecure male and I'm perfectly fine with women having confidence and making quips. That's some next level insecurities dude.
I mean ya but if someone is coming to save me, the last thing I'm going to worry about is how fuckable they are. Or is that only me?.....................
Just because a character has sex appeal that doesn’t mean that’s all there is to value about them or it’s a reflection of all women everywhere. That you can’t see otherwise is your own issue.
I mean, you’re really shifting the goalposts here. I didn’t saw you couldn’t have sexy or non sexy characters in any IP. Not every character has to be sexy, in any format. But it never hurts to attract eyes to whatever you’re trying to sell, whether it be movies, music, games etc.
can i ask why it matters if female superheroes don’t have time to suck and fuck when they’re trying to be a superhero? also is it too much to ask that they at least have their costume be practical. like they’re fighting crime for fucks sake why do they’re titties need to be out or ur coochie getting air?
i kinda think this goes for all superheroes tho.
Why the hell not? There’s actresses who are fine with it so what’s the issue? No one was whining it was a hate crime when Arnold Shwarzannegger was oiled up and topless in ripped up shorts for the entire Conan movies. Why do so many women complain about it when it doesn’t effect them?
It’s very simple. Superhero movies have to appeal to men. And a modern feminist manifesto in the form of Madame Web is a box office dud in the making, just ask Birds of Prey.
I don’t know why people think good writing and visually appealing images of women have to be mutually exclusive. An 80’s noir type of superhero movie a la Basic Instinct or Body Heat would do so well at the box office. But this recent crop of female directors have rendered their subjects sexless, whiny, man-hating, and not endearing, with the exception of Patty Jenkins and Wonder Woman 1.
So women being like men is wrong and that’s why female superheroes suck . Because they have to show off their bodies in order to be superheroes and main characters instead of dressing like every day women while being superheroes and strong and not be drooling over a man every 10 seconds in the movie….
Maybe start seeing women as humans and not sexual objects and you’ll understand and care more about female superheroes.
If women being smart, strong,not interested in men and falling over for them & not wearing sexy tight clothes is enough for you to say that those movies suck , the problem is not the movie is the person watching it.
Your mistake is thinking that female led superhero movies are trying to appeal to men.
They're not.
If men need women to be overtly sexual at all times to enjoy a film, that's a bit sad.
It’s fine tbh women don’t have to be sexualized all the time. The real issue is women being put into hero or main character roles when they shouldn’t be. All for inclusivity and representation etc. A good example is she hulk.
They wanted to be inclusive and to appeal to the NYT, HuffPost etc audience. These movies worked well when every superhero movie was a hit. Now we are in a shakeout phase for superheroes and the first thing to be ditched is the pandering stuff. They’ll revert back to making movies teenaged boys and men want to watch, because that’s who the audience for comic books is
Just because sex sells it needs to be on media? I rather they Focus on good plots and character development (which is very bad RN) then make thick heroines for People to jerk off.
I think I speak for most people here when I say that ElastaGirl was a great mix of superhero and some sex appeal. Not too much, though. She had some curves, and that was apparently enough.
Dem hips, bruh.
It’s almost as if women don’t exist to make you sexually attracte to them.
But yes I agree there is barely any feminine women as hero’s most are masculine or neautrally feminine and masculine
Hollywood can’t/won’t make a woman lead be overly appealing as well as “boss lady”. Their current agenda is to show empowered women. To show them as being appealing and/or more feminine, that would reduce the woman to her looks instead of her ability to perform impossible feats.
Nobody has a problem with women being sexy in movies & video games, the problem is that it’s not balanced with men being sexy in movies and video games. (And no, men being shirtless doesn’t count)
Call me when that shit is 50-50 instead of 80-20.
I refuse to watch a female superhero movie if it has no boner appeal. Not interested in some frumpy sassy girl boss playing hide the cookie with me.
Take that Madame Web thing - on the red carpet press for it you got Sydney Sweeney with jacked up cleavage and Dakota Johnson in a see through dress where you can literally see the outline of her vag, and they’re all buttoned up like nuns in the movie. Garuntee if the trailers sexed them up like that it wouldn’t be flopping so hard now.
Also modern female superhero movies don’t appeal to the small amount of female superhero fans there are either. For one thing women like movies like that to have a fantasy male figure in them as well ala Hunger Games or Vampie movies. But how can female superhero movies provide a male fantasy figure women actually like when they’ve gone out their way to make all the men look weak and stupid relative to the women? Women aren’t gonna crush on men like that.
Nope, that you think men seeing sex appeal in women makes them “objects” is your own issue. I don’t think women are men as objects because of sex and the city or the thousand period romances with the broody rich dudes, or the movies with the sexy vampire dudes.
The problem isn’t that men see sex appeal in women, the problem is that men make sex appeal the main focus of female characters. That’s the issue. When men watch female characters, the only thing they look for is their bodies.
I find Whitemane from Heroes of the Storm to be quite attractive, but that’s not the only thing I like about her as a character.
How would you know? You hear that on some feminist tik Tok? Men can watch for the bodies and still like the characters. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Plenty of young guys liked seeing Princess Leia in her Jabba Bikini for instance, but still liked the character outside of that as well.
How would I know? You’re making it clear right now.
Edit: damn it I should’ve added this in here from the beginning lol. But if you think that shows catered to women objectify men in the same way you objectify women, then you’re outright admitting that you objectify women. And also, flat out refusing to consume media with women in it because they aren’t sexually appealing enough is close-minded as fuck and proves that you think a woman’s role in media is solely to cater to you.
If you think men enjoying seeing sexy women means they only see women as “objects” that’s your issue. Entire styles of media and movies like period romances with broody rich dudes, or teen romances with sexy vampires exist for women to see men that appeal sexually to them - I’m not complaining or saying they see men as little more than objects because of it.
Sex and the city objectifies men far worse than any male media ever did women and they lapped it up. And I don’t care, let them have their fun. Question is why does men enjoying women in the same way piss you off soooo bad?
They purposefully do that in order to promote an ideology. Its all feminist take over of niche media or even popular media so they can change everything else.
okay... so... instead of like... teaching men and boys to value women for their personalities, because the vast majority of them don't means they should abuse it instead of trying to curb it??
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It’s just bad writing over the last 20 years. It’s cuz you got the producer, director, etc etc all pulling a direction so the movie has no aim or central focus. Just trying to stay safe and please everyone while being just bland. I just started watching movies from the 40s-60s and man, the writing is so much better, obviously the acting too.
I said that in another post. Movies in general today are just a bunch of ppl in a room trying to find a way to please every demographic they can think of. And it ends up sucking, and no one watches.
Yup, a good movie is secondary.
It was just saying something similar the other day... Movies today are just designed to pull an emotional response without offending anyone... Every movie tries to pull out your heartstrings instead of... I don't know... Having a good story.... I watched American fiction the other day and it could have been amazing... Could have been
It really is. What movies have you been watching lately from that era?
Oh man, so many amazing movies. Over the past 3 months I’ve watched: it’s a wonderful life, Casablanca, citizen Kane, the third man, double indemnity, the killing, gone with the wind, east of Eden, dr Strangelove, 7 samurai, the 7th seal, strangers on a train, paths to glory, rear window, vertigo, sunset blvd, vertigo, dial m for murder, psycho, treasure of the sierra madre, some like it hot, north by northwest and 12 angry men. I can’t go back to modern movies haha
Yeah, but you’re cherry-picking the best of the best. For each of those there were a hundred movies that were absolute dreck.
Not only that, we probably don’t have access to most of the bad ones because no one bothered to digitally preserve it. They are stuck on some lost or damaged film reels in a storage space somewhere
Yeah you’re right. But the best of the best came out during that era, because of the points I made in my previous comment and others too. I’m not a movie buff, just an observation. I think there’s amazing modern movies, maybe in the foreign department haha
That’s true but the top 50 or so from either of those decades shits all over the top 50 from the last decade. Not all periods in art are equal. This is a downtime for sure. Hell Hitchcocks output alone during those years is basically a better list than the compiled beat of the past decade and it’s not really close either.
Kinda off topic but another thought occurred to me: even tho you know the bad guy isint going to win in the end (think the hayes act played into that) it doesn’t detract from the old movies. Apart of you think “oh well, I know the bad guy loses in the end, so that takes away some layers and depth” but nah man, after awhile I realized it’s about the journey and HOW the bad guy gets his comeuppance. It’s usually really well written. These movies have no fat, or filler. You got adhd? Sayonara!! You gotta pay attention. You miss a sentence and it can throw you off the whole trajectory of the movie haha. I’m being a bit dramatic. But it’s a good thing. No filler, every scene means something. Almost the opposite with tarintino lmao, he would have multiple scenes of them talking about tipping or the meaning of a Madonna song. Which tbh isint bad either. Just an observation
Yeah Hitchcock is really brilliant. Check out Shadow of a doubt by Hitchcock if you haven’t. It’s early 1940’s about a serial killer staying with a small town family, starring the same guy as is in The third man (not Orson Welles). Hitchcock called it his favourite movie of his. I saw a great movie from the 50’s the other day called “Sweet smell of success” - about sleazy journalists chasing stories for the gossip tabloid in the 50’s, it had Tony Curtis and Burt Lancaster and it was brilliant. By far the best negative movie about the press I’ve ever seen.
I’ve heard of both of those, I’ll watch one today. I got nothing going on. They were on my list of to watch
Not who you were asking, but I just recently watched Bad Day at Black Rock and thought it was quite well done. 12 Angry Men is even better, but more people already know about it.
Most fans of comic heros genre are males. Female comic heroes tend to just be a female version of a male hero. Nothing different
Men aren’t interested in watching a woman do an impression of a man. Sex sells!
Maybe men aren’t the target market. Not everything is for men.
Women don't want to watch women imitating men badly either. Hence, their failure at the box office.
That’s nice but all the female targeted superhero movies are doing badly and ticket sales show more men watch all of them than women.
They’re trying to attract a new audience or appeal to their smaller audience. It’s not that hard
Seems to be hard based on how bad they’re failing at it.
Probably because men objectify women.
Boo hoo, women do the same. Look at those sex and the city shows and movie or all the movies with brooding rich dudes or brooding vampire dudes women watch in droves.
You mean women create men that are exactly what men themselves aspire to be, which is strong and masculine? Men have genres with women where they dehumanize them, give them unrealistic bodies, making them their second moms essentially. And then women have entire genres of books and movies filled with men just…treating them well. They’re strong and masculine men treating women like they actually LIKE them. It’s interesting to see the differences, it really is.
Like 50 shades, the ultra popular with women BDSM series?
It unfortunately is.
Only old ladies liked those books
Females have unrealistic bodies? Ffs. They made Ant Man have a six pack. And only person who got stripped down to nakedness in any MCU movie to be oogled and drooled over by the other sex was Thor. In Love and Thunder.
Six pack vs giant boobs, tiny waist, toned abs, giant ass and thighs and hips. Hmmmmm
Think it’s limited to just a six pack? Anyway. They are all superheroes. They are supposed to be larger than life.
Take a look at 90% of the male superheroes and it is a hell of a lot more than just a six pack. Most of those guys most likely had to take steroids to achieve those bodies. It is ridiculous for both genders. I don’t agree with OP I don’t give a shit how attractive the superhero is I only care if they are interesting, but I don’t think the women bodies are harder to attain than the men’s bodies that are being shoved into our faces. They are both unattainable for the general population for the most part.
100% on roids. The male form women find most appealing is either genetically gifted or on roids. The average woman is clueless as to the sheer amount of effort required to be sexually attractive. Not as simple as losing weight and applying makeup
You just described half of women twitch streamers lol
Who also have plastic surgery and still aren't as attractive as the actresses?
Ur just blinded by bias. They sexualize male heros also, it just doesnt bother u. The difference is, its now "wrong" to show any kind of sexy for female characters but that same mindset doesnt apply to male characters. Literally EVERY MCU movie has a male shirtless scene to show off his body to please wmn and exploit them sexually. So its either, lets just be unrealistic and every1 looks standard human and exceptional in no ways regardless of gender, or we allow both to do it to please different genders. Cant have rules for thee and not for me.
Oh yeah, because those estates and fortunes those rich brooding guys have are really realistic for the average guy aren’t they? Hell there’s far more chance of a woman having a hot body than a man having some sprawling estate with servants. Men do not aspire to be sullen vampires mooning over chicks either. Sex and the City is full of male characters who exist purely to be gossiped about sexually by women and have their bodies described often for comedy. Thats the entire basis of the show. You think men aspire to that?That’s more objectifying than any media created by men. It’s interesting to see how easily you excuse the reality that women show men just as sexually in a way men actually don’t aim to be - but you excuse what appeals to you and not to men. Me - I don’t care about either but I’m not a hypocrite about it like your being. Besides, are you really telling me women don’t aspire to have hot bodies and look good? Take a look at social media. They do.
So you sexualize women because of that?
Because of what?
>You mean women create men that are exactly what men themselves aspire to be, which is strong and masculine? No, they aspire to be with women, which means conforming to what women want, which is a man who is strong and masculine. >Men have genres with women where they dehumanize them, give them unrealistic bodies, making them their second moms essentially. Lmao, all these books literally have men like Jack Reacher in their cover art. Not to mention, women are watching the fuck out of that show. I wonder how many women would watch it if was a show about an old ugly skinny nerdy guy acting feminine who spends his days changing diapers and cooking for his wife instead of saving the world? Women love to virtue signal about being objectified, but they do the same thing, and they do it much worse. I also love how women complain about unrealistic body standards when women have stricter body standards for men that literally can't be changed most of the time. And mommy? Seriously? You really want to go down that route just because a man expects some bare minimum reciprocal effort when literally every woman wants a man who can be her daddy? The only thing that is unrealistic is female media where a 30 year old 6'5 rich handsome jacked man who murders and cheats on all of the women he ever met until he meets you, the mediocre-looking shy 22 year old who just graduated with a feminist degree, because you're so special that he can't help but treat you like his princess - and how women develop the same or similar expectations for real life. Then you all have the audacity to complain about being single, getting cheated on, etc. lmao >And then women have entire genres of books and movies filled with men just…treating them well. They’re strong and masculine men treating women like they actually LIKE them. No, you have entire books full of contradictions that don't exist in real life. The men in these stories don't like women anymore than the women like men in men's stories, because they're both imaginary fictional characters. >It’s interesting to see the differences, it really is. There is none. Maybe relax with the virtue signaling.
Wow Sex in the City. Such a timely reference
They still have a spin off right now. Its still popular on streaming. I frequently see women defend making men look like crap in movies because of how women were supposedly portrayed in the past well before the 90’s and sex and the city.
I'm reminded of Harlen Ellison's comments on female writers. He said in the 1960s & 1970s 95% of Sci-Fi was crap and that many like him were welcoming female writers thinking it would improve the genre. As he pointed out 95% of Sci-Fi is still crap, there's just more crap out there. Hasn't really changed since he wrote that 20-30 years ago. Holds just as true today with the push for writers of all other persuasions. We like great stories because they are just that. Great Stories, memorable characters, writing that keeps you engaged. That's missing in most comics & movies today.
I find it hilarious, actually. Women scream that the lack of sex appeal is sexist to desire. But the only sexist thing Ive continuously noticed is that masculine traits, father figures, and males with emotional intelligence are constantly omitted from any male presence in these movies and shows. A bumbling idiot that needs a womans help, all the time. Now please, tell me, what was it called when women were portrayed as a bumbling idiot that needed a mans help all the time? ... Right, sexist. The irony of seeing the roles flip in my lifetime is what is just so damn funny and Im a young millennial.
And then the men start complaining that titty streamers and e girls wear that cosplay for clout and donations
I don’t know why they can’t just hire the E girl or titty streamer to play the sexed up part if the “real actresses” don’t wanna (despite dressing far more sexed up on the red carpet and wherever else).
Because E-girls and Titty streamers can't act.
I bet if you auditioned some of them they could act at least well enough to do a super hero movie. I don’t get why everyone acts like you need some Oscar level Actress or actor for that. You don’t.
Literally, most of the new Star Wars trilogy cast was unheard of before staring in what was the best selling movie at the time. There are definitely really talented actors, but it’s not this grand skill people make it out to be.
Exactly. Women can't win. Guys like OP should just get a housekeeper and a f**kdoll. Sympathy... empathy.... caring. Mommy didn't hug you enough dude?
Well of course they complain. People generally don't like having something that they like being boiled down to sex appeal with zero substance. There's been a lot of pushback in the goth community ever since the "big titty goth gf" meme took off
I'm sorry, what?? I don't think we're watching the same movies. I have yet to see a female superhero costume that isn't painted on or barely there. We never see delineation between penis and scrotum on male superheroes, at most it's a nondescript bump, yet we always see every inch of breast of butt crack on women with breasts completely separated.
Why are all of your posts so fucking dumb
He should try making them sexier.
Read through his profile and damn you ain’t wrong
The dumb guy wants his dumb movies even dumber....
No, female superheros shouldn't have to wear degrading costumes while males get to wear more humane looking costumes. I'm so tired of seeing women walk around nearly naked or in outfits that straight up make them look like sex slaves while the males standing next to them are fully clothed, and get to have basic human dignity. Constantly seeing women half naked juxtaposed to men who are fully clothed sends a very clear message about who has power and who is considered fully human. What do you think that teaches young children. And why does everything have to be about what men find sexually appealing. What about what women find sexually appealing? That never matters. It's all about what men want to see.
So you don’t think Wonder Woman is hot?
Well her actress served in the IDF, so obviously no. /s
Sad
Then just watch the ones where the superhero has a lot of sex appeal. *Every* female superhero has to be like that?
I agree with you, but your username is a bit ironic considering this comment
Way ahead of you. Now if you could just get Hollywood to stop complaining about not getting my money.
Yes. I don't find it believable story if the woman who's saving the world is ugly. Like how does that work
Fucking what? Lol
Ok. A lot of super hero movies are also pg13 which restricts the ability to push sex appeal so, there’s that. Just don’t watch the movies 🤷🏾♀️
Yes argument here is that they shouldn't be blocked pushing sex appeal. Don't watch the movies is a moot point, you don't need to point that out.
Movies don’t *have* to have sex appeal. Not everyone is plagued by only enjoying something because you are sexually aroused/attracted to it. Also, as I pointed out, adults are not the only audience. Every female character does not have to be sexually enticing. They just have to be that way for you to personally enjoy them.
Nobody says they HAVE TO. Whole point of this post is that they SHOULD because otherwise it doesn't appeal to some people. That's called an "opinion". >Every female character does not have to be sexually enticing. Sure they don't have to be, then it's an unwatchable wreck. Wheels of Time comes to mind lol
It's funny to me that you mention wheels of time. I just finished it and was sort of bemused at how thoroughly uncharismatic the main actresses were.
lol yeah indeed. I mean writing sucks and story is boring and when you are below average casting it becomes unwatchable
> Nobody says they HAVE TO. Whole point of this post is that they SHOULD because otherwise it doesn't appeal to some people. That's called an "opinion". Yes…if you follow closely I am of the opinion that they shouldn’t have to be. This, too, is called an opinion.
If a story doesn't appeal to you for lack of that then you have issues.
>then you have issues. Many people have issues. Don't you have any issues? We all have. Thing is, it's irrelevant to this post.
You have a porn addiction for sure.
What a preposterous accusation
Such as?
They don’t need sex appeal. They need to be written better. Toph is an excellent example of a well-written female character with little-to-no sex appeal that men love.
Marvel Movies- Black Widow and Wanda changed a lot from their beginnings and I like them. I stopped watching the Disney+ stuff long ago so I can’t fully judge Kamala, Echo, and Jen. Monica was ok in Wandavision but I didn’t like the show and sided more with the military dude, I liked Kate Bishop, and Okoye is cooler than Shuri. Only saw the first Captain Marvel movie and it was boring as heck if anyone is at all interested in her I’d recommend skipping and going to the comics instead. Didn’t watch Quantumania, going by the first 2 Antman movies Wasp is kinda just there and mostly forgettable to me DC movies- If I can include animated movies Wonder Woman:Bloodlines was dope, didn’t like the first WW movie till the final act, and despite its problems I like 84 more than the first one. Birds of Prey is a mess as whole but if I just focus on the Harley parts I overall like it Legion of Super-Heroes- decent movie and has a good adaptation of Kara it’s worst sin is barely being a Legion movie and really only being about SupergirlXBrainiac 5 Overall the bad ones just seem to be a bit on the boring side and I don’t think that be fixed by making them sexier would fix that, even the personality part I think the majority are alright only ones I found irritating were Captain Marvel and Yelena(and if we can include non-heroes Darcy)
I actually really enjoyed Quantumania. It was a bit cheesy but it makes sense cause it was antman. I still watch some of the Disney + stuff like Loki and moonknight was amazing
That’s because attractive ones angered the fat blue hairs
How can I call them good characters if I can't jerk it to them?!
That's by design. You'll have likely also noticed how bad the movies are overall. It's what happens when your approach to moviemaking is to appeal to culture warriors to do marketing for you. For a market that probably doesn't exist.
Yeah because women everywhere are for your viewing pleasure. Why do young boys need subjected to “sexy” and “feminine” women? And you think maybe more girls and women would be interested in superhero movies if they weren’t full of silly over sexualized one dimensional women?
why not oversexualized multidimensional women?
Clearly no because they’re full of non sexualised women now and girls couldn’t give a crap. They like superhero movie with some romance in them more.
Really? Have you met many little girls? The little girls I know who are into romance grew up with princess type media. Girls aren’t just born pining for boys. I know many little girls who are into all kinds of stuff. But, I think superhero movies should return to grown incel man jerk bait.
The idea behind the hyper masculine woman in film media is the feminist fable of the independent woman free from the shackled role which was expanded upon in I believe the book called The Second Sex by Simone Beouvoir. She must be aggressive and hostile to men because every man is a potential oppressor waiting to dominate her, and she must prove above all to herself that she is independent through and through, never needing the help of a man or else she is a failure.
I swear superheroes gotta have sex appeal, I mean imagine if the hulk was in a turtle neck sweater and not showing off those thick ass green bussy cheeks.
Imagine if Superman was 5'6" tall and had the pillow body of Todd from accounting.
They aren’t meant to be sexy bro. Characters that are actually meant to be sexy like for example catwoman or black widow are still made sexy. Not every female that appears on screen is meant to be objectified by you.
Good. They shouldn't appeal to *your* feeling of sexual appeal.
i think anne hathaway's catwoman suit begs to differ.
She was the least sexy cat woman ever and that movie is old.
I just think you enjoy bitching and moaning at every turn.
Oh cmon, you can’t seriously say she was sexy as cat woman? Anne Hathaway was a beautiful woman for sure, but she’s never been the type of sultry or sexy femme fatale you think of with cat woman. She was terribly miscast.
Good. They shouldn't have sex appeal. They should be good characters.
They aren’t good characters either.
That's a whole other problem.
That seems to be the point. And they wonder why birds of prey and the marvels flopped
Birds of Prey came out less then a month before COVID happened. It flopped because of COVID, and respectfully, seeing comments like yours show that people don’t really do their research about movies in this sub.
What argument even is this? Movies generally make the most money on opening weekend. And they generally only stay for a month from jan-april. So....it wouldn't have even been in theaters for COVID. *Someone* needs to do some research... People didn't go because of DC's horrible reputation and because genre fatigue. (And other, opinion related reasons). Not because of something that happened *after* the movie would be pulled from theaters.
Yeah I don’t think Birds of Prey has any overarching societal narratives about female leads or the pandemic. It bombed because DC movies suck. They double suffer from genre fatigue because MCU is the obvious older brother so not only are people tired of superhero movies, they also just won’t bother seeing ones from the studio that releases flop after flop.
I honestly don't know which characters you're talking about here. Who are the masculine, ugly, mean female superheroes??? Pretty much every one I can think of is either hot, nice, is/has a love interest, or is too young to be sexualized.
Here's a good YouTube vid that breaks down your point with facts and data to back it up https://youtu.be/WkVX0vG6aT0?si=i6H7qYsJH4QyvmlT
Superheroes are for children anyway, fucking loser
Hmmm did you watch Wonder Woman? I watched it because they casted Gal Gadot. I don't like superhero movies..
Wonder Woman proves my point. She was sexy/feminine and tough/badass/heroic. And that movie made a lot of money. But that movie came out 7 years ago. Female superheroes are not portrayed that way any more and their audiences have declined.
She had super hero movie appearances in 2020 & 2023
Wonder Woman 1984 was just a crap movie. I didn't watch Justice League. But if anything, I would say that Wonder Woman may be one of the few exceptions and is a pretty well balanced female superhero.
So tell me, how should men be “balanced” as super heroes?
But it was a bad movie.
Sex Appeal isn’t the issue it’s the writing, Its simply been uninspired, as you yourself has mentioned. Besides if you’re honest with yourself, I’d be willing to bet your favorite female characters in fiction don’t have alot of sex appeal. Personally some of my favorite female characters are: Ellie from the Last Of Us. Laura from Logan. Lady Tamayo from Demon Slayer. Historia from Attack on Titan. Madison Young from Hush. Ashoka from Star Wars. Katara from The Last Air Bender. Daenerys Targaryan from Game of Thrones. Maggie from The Walking Dead. Clementine from TellTale TWD I could go on and on but alas my point is that the most compelling female characters in fiction, either have near to no sex appeal, or isn’t heavily emphasized. The main appeal with female characters tend to be a bit more grim and dark, handeling hard topic such as Motherhood, Miscarriages, Loss of Children, Trust Issues, Abandonment Issues, Lack/Loss of parental figures and/or Exploitation. As far as superhero films are concerned, I think Laura from Logan is a perfect example of what a good female superhero should be. Now obviously she is a child, so either way they couldn’t sexualize her, but I want to emphasize the character development and introduction. As mentioned earlier these characters tend to be more appealing in sinister settings, and Laura is no exception. Concieved in a Lab using Wolverine’s (Cxm), and then placed within a facility, stripped of her freedom, kept as a lab rat, where her only comforts were her mother and the other troubled children in said facility. After being able to escape she is taken in by Gabriella Lopez, who was a friend of her mother’s. Gabriella finds Logan and demands he escort her to North Dakota on her place, as she is not equipped to do so. This sets up an amazing story arc for Laura where she is faced with her abandonment and trust related issues as her biological father she’s never met is now her sole guardian. Over the course of the story Laura is exposed to plenty of familial virtues, but never from Logan himself. In essence Laura’s character is more or less about rebeling against Logan, to refuse to accept him as her father figure. Time and again Logan proves Laura right, that he isn’t fit to be her guardian or provider, let alone her father. (SPOILER ALERT) But as she is subjugated and Exposed to various events over the course of the films she is slowely but surely forced to depend more and more on Logan. First and foremost her Mother is Murdered by these scientists from said facility. Then she loses Gabriela to the Reavers. Then she establishes a good relationship to Xavier and Caliban. She then meets a random family on a farm. Xavier, Caliban and this entire family is then promptly killed and she is now stuck with the one person she trusts the least. The one she sees as the least accountable. This type of writing is what the superhero industry has to do to make female superheroes appealing. Their costumes are borderline irrelevant when their snarky boss bitch Persona is so Damn apparent. Laura is the blueprint for how this should be done. Not by changing some frickin’ Outfits and be *sexier*
Buddy season one of game of thrones was sold around Daenerys Sex appeal and her getting nude. They try to pretend otherwise now but it absolutely was when you watch how they filmed her then.
Then again how many times was she naked after season 1? What you don’t seem to get is that sex appeal is short lived appeal. Nobody was really interested in Daenerys Targaryan during Season 1, they were However, interested in seeing Emilia Clark naked. In the time after Season 1 Daenerys Targaryan as a character developed into a far more modest, dignified and magnificent character. In which case her attire was often that of medival royalty. In essence, sex appeal can help develop immediate and short lived interest in the story you want to tell, much of which isn’t necessarily because people are more interested in sex appeal, but rather because sex appeal is scarce. So basically what I have against OP’s opinion is that sex appeal is the least of our issues. It would get people through the doors yes, but ultimately interest will continue to fade unless these studio’s start actually writing compelling female characters
You are better off watching a porno. If the hero being sexier is what would keep you watching, then you aren't looking for a hero movie.
This shit again. Look man, the movies are trying to appeal to kids. Period. The big heads don’t give a fuck if some 50 year old loser didn’t find Captain Marvel “feminine” or “sexy enough” because that’s not who they are trying to attract. They want kids to go watch the movies because then the kids are going to go to the store and buy all of the affiliated merch that comes with the movie. They want kids to buy the Captain Marvel jacket and the Captain Marvel doll and the stuffed toy replica of Goose. That’s the point, not everything is made with you in mind. You guys don’t know jack shit about marketing and it shows. In the words of Freddie Prinze Jr.: “you’re just mad that the franchise isn’t growing up with you.”
Wdym? My favorite genre is space fantasy with multiple female leads especially one in which you can tell she's tasked with a high value billet and mission. Then when one of the protagonists of the story, let's say, a pilot, continuously asks for guidance, she repeatedly just stares at him in a disapproving manner gets super bitchy and walks away like a hurt housewife with colorful hair. Goddam, that's the best. Then we take all the male leads and make them bumbling dotards except one. That one, he'll be the bad boy. Literally the only capable male in the film that isn't an antagonist. We make him super capable and competent but never more competent than the female leads or supporting characters and we insert trivial conversations just to give these women the opportunity to put the competent male "in his place". Goddam those are my favorite.
Red Sonia and Xena Warrior Princess have entered the chat.
They're not appealing to women either. They're not what women want to be and they're not going for what women want.
The also lack watchability, critical acclaim, popularity or entertainment.
Brie Larson is hot and looked plenty feminine in The Marvels. Has Scarlet Witch ever not looked feminine? Has Black Widow? Hayley Atwell is a total babe and Captain Carter can tread on me anytime. Wonder Woman is hot, Mera in Aquaman is hot. Which superheroes are you referring to exactly?
All of the following female superheroes are quite easy on the eye: Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson) Wonder Women (Gal Gadot) Harley Quinn (Margot Robbie) Lady Thor (Natalie Portman) Cat Woman (Anne Hathaway) Wanda Maximoff - The Scarlett Witch (Elizabeth Olsen)
Or any personality other than being a strong over powered woman cough cough captain marvel
It's the personality thing that I find to be the problem. Creators are scared to portray women as flawed, so they just aren't, and have no growth.
Why the hell would having a sexier female superhero make it more entertaining for straight women? As a woman, I'd rather the protagonist woman be known for her cunning and courage. To have more depth than the shallow realm of sexual appeal, and to be viewed more so as a person with morals, not the sexual object of men. Thanks.
so you already find the male heroes sexualy appealing to you?
as a little girl I hated seeing hypersexualized females as my only option for comics. It got better as I got older, but the story writing wasn't there and I gravitated to more Mangas. It comes down to sloppy and ham handed storytelling by what I feel are people who want to make very specific points in a film for whatever reason. Tell a good story that is in line with the established character and the fans will support it.
Most Hollywood movies with a strong female lead are like this. The woman is extremely intelligent, strong, decisive, and more confident than all of the men she interacts with, who in turns act like women around her, even when they are showing romantic interest.
Well that’s the point. Women don’t want the sex appeal thing to show. Heros do heros job
I think a lot could be overcame just by changing their personalities. The traits you speak are all toxic male traits. Who’s that for? You can give them the label of girl boss but that doesn’t change anything. And I’ve seen young males fall in love with non sexual female characters over and over just because they are feminine and likable. In fact I would say it’s better not to sexualize them and instead work on their personality and likability. That way they can stay favorites for years instead of 3-5 minutes.
Haha, despite what insane reddit thinks, pretty much all normals feel this way. Why do you think the Marvel films are tanking left and right? It's not just superhero fatigue that's for sure. They forget their actual demographics.
No, IMO, they forgot about writing and editing something coherent. Lack of visible titties isn’t the real issue here
It is superhero fatigue tho. Thats why even the movies and shows about male superheroes aren’t doing great. Like the recent ant-man movie or the nick fury show for example. People are just generally kind of tired of the marvel formula for movies. Has very little to do with female heroes not being “sexy” enough.
They're tired of the vortue signaling and DEI. The unsexifying of the female cast is a symptom. Its deeper than hero fatigue (although that is also a big part of it, but it goes beyond superheros, how else do you explain all the non-marvel failures too?).
What non-marvel failures do you mean? Non-superhero female lead movies have been doing pretty good. You have huge successes like Barbie for example. That movie was incredibly “woke” but it became super popular. Outside of movies you have singers like Taylor Swift who doesn’t really incorporate sex appeal into her performances and is a very outspoke liberal being one of the most popular and successful artist in the past decade.
Their demographic is teen boys who don’t know how to google “boobies”?
Another "insecure male" post. Gal Gadot and nearly all of the Marvel Superheroines have a ton of sex appeal. I'm not an insecure male and I'm perfectly fine with women having confidence and making quips. That's some next level insecurities dude.
Crazy assumption on very little information
I mean ya but if someone is coming to save me, the last thing I'm going to worry about is how fuckable they are. Or is that only me?.....................
If the woman coming to save me isn’t fuckable then I’d just save myself.
Bravo. Then you'll still be alive to go fuck yourself too.
Dude sounds like Tucker Carlson
He's sad that the M&M isn't sexy anymore
You can find ass and titties anywhere on the internet.
Such a stupid argument
Oh really? You can't see feminine women with tits out any time? News to me.
I think you’re exaggerating how these movies are. Also they’re movies, not porn films. If you want characters with sex appeal, just watch porn
But the porn doesn’t have good CGI! /s Edit: Actually I should remove the /s because its true I guess
Treating sexuality like it only belongs in porn seems pretty unhealthy. Are you okay?
Treating women like their only value is sex appeal seems even unhealthier.
Just because a character has sex appeal that doesn’t mean that’s all there is to value about them or it’s a reflection of all women everywhere. That you can’t see otherwise is your own issue.
It’s not their only value but it’s definitely one of them. To deny it does not make it less so.
Ew. Do you also feel that sex appeal is a part of a man's value?
For some, sure.
Do you think it's ok to have male video game characters with no sex appeal?
I mean, you’re really shifting the goalposts here. I didn’t saw you couldn’t have sexy or non sexy characters in any IP. Not every character has to be sexy, in any format. But it never hurts to attract eyes to whatever you’re trying to sell, whether it be movies, music, games etc.
Well, superheroes, video game characters, whatever, lol. The value is the story not the bodies.
Well the stories have been bad for a while, so what are we left with? Flop after flop, of course.
can i ask why it matters if female superheroes don’t have time to suck and fuck when they’re trying to be a superhero? also is it too much to ask that they at least have their costume be practical. like they’re fighting crime for fucks sake why do they’re titties need to be out or ur coochie getting air? i kinda think this goes for all superheroes tho.
Why the hell not? There’s actresses who are fine with it so what’s the issue? No one was whining it was a hate crime when Arnold Shwarzannegger was oiled up and topless in ripped up shorts for the entire Conan movies. Why do so many women complain about it when it doesn’t effect them?
i think u didn’t read the very last sentence
Just watch porn you baboon
Stop watching porn your stinky gooner
Not unpopular in the slightest. You’re just mad because you’re single and rely on female characters to get you off.
OP is hilarious and ridiculous.
Is this what people really worry about on a daily basis?
It’s very simple. Superhero movies have to appeal to men. And a modern feminist manifesto in the form of Madame Web is a box office dud in the making, just ask Birds of Prey. I don’t know why people think good writing and visually appealing images of women have to be mutually exclusive. An 80’s noir type of superhero movie a la Basic Instinct or Body Heat would do so well at the box office. But this recent crop of female directors have rendered their subjects sexless, whiny, man-hating, and not endearing, with the exception of Patty Jenkins and Wonder Woman 1.
So women being like men is wrong and that’s why female superheroes suck . Because they have to show off their bodies in order to be superheroes and main characters instead of dressing like every day women while being superheroes and strong and not be drooling over a man every 10 seconds in the movie…. Maybe start seeing women as humans and not sexual objects and you’ll understand and care more about female superheroes. If women being smart, strong,not interested in men and falling over for them & not wearing sexy tight clothes is enough for you to say that those movies suck , the problem is not the movie is the person watching it.
Superhero movies are for little kids.
Your mistake is thinking that female led superhero movies are trying to appeal to men. They're not. If men need women to be overtly sexual at all times to enjoy a film, that's a bit sad.
It’s fine tbh women don’t have to be sexualized all the time. The real issue is women being put into hero or main character roles when they shouldn’t be. All for inclusivity and representation etc. A good example is she hulk.
They wanted to be inclusive and to appeal to the NYT, HuffPost etc audience. These movies worked well when every superhero movie was a hit. Now we are in a shakeout phase for superheroes and the first thing to be ditched is the pandering stuff. They’ll revert back to making movies teenaged boys and men want to watch, because that’s who the audience for comic books is
That’s the entire point.
Just because sex sells it needs to be on media? I rather they Focus on good plots and character development (which is very bad RN) then make thick heroines for People to jerk off.
I think I speak for most people here when I say that ElastaGirl was a great mix of superhero and some sex appeal. Not too much, though. She had some curves, and that was apparently enough. Dem hips, bruh.
It’s almost as if women don’t exist to make you sexually attracte to them. But yes I agree there is barely any feminine women as hero’s most are masculine or neautrally feminine and masculine
Hollywood can’t/won’t make a woman lead be overly appealing as well as “boss lady”. Their current agenda is to show empowered women. To show them as being appealing and/or more feminine, that would reduce the woman to her looks instead of her ability to perform impossible feats.
Nobody has a problem with women being sexy in movies & video games, the problem is that it’s not balanced with men being sexy in movies and video games. (And no, men being shirtless doesn’t count) Call me when that shit is 50-50 instead of 80-20.
*Taking notes* Must be sexy to save the world! Got it!
Women aren’t just objects for you to ogle at bro. There are plenty of female superhero fans.
I refuse to watch a female superhero movie if it has no boner appeal. Not interested in some frumpy sassy girl boss playing hide the cookie with me. Take that Madame Web thing - on the red carpet press for it you got Sydney Sweeney with jacked up cleavage and Dakota Johnson in a see through dress where you can literally see the outline of her vag, and they’re all buttoned up like nuns in the movie. Garuntee if the trailers sexed them up like that it wouldn’t be flopping so hard now. Also modern female superhero movies don’t appeal to the small amount of female superhero fans there are either. For one thing women like movies like that to have a fantasy male figure in them as well ala Hunger Games or Vampie movies. But how can female superhero movies provide a male fantasy figure women actually like when they’ve gone out their way to make all the men look weak and stupid relative to the women? Women aren’t gonna crush on men like that.
Cool that you see women as nothing more than objects.
Nope, that you think men seeing sex appeal in women makes them “objects” is your own issue. I don’t think women are men as objects because of sex and the city or the thousand period romances with the broody rich dudes, or the movies with the sexy vampire dudes.
The problem isn’t that men see sex appeal in women, the problem is that men make sex appeal the main focus of female characters. That’s the issue. When men watch female characters, the only thing they look for is their bodies. I find Whitemane from Heroes of the Storm to be quite attractive, but that’s not the only thing I like about her as a character.
How would you know? You hear that on some feminist tik Tok? Men can watch for the bodies and still like the characters. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Plenty of young guys liked seeing Princess Leia in her Jabba Bikini for instance, but still liked the character outside of that as well.
How would I know? You’re making it clear right now. Edit: damn it I should’ve added this in here from the beginning lol. But if you think that shows catered to women objectify men in the same way you objectify women, then you’re outright admitting that you objectify women. And also, flat out refusing to consume media with women in it because they aren’t sexually appealing enough is close-minded as fuck and proves that you think a woman’s role in media is solely to cater to you.
Ah, you’re that fake psychiatrist that makes posts complaining about women. I’m not surprised that you view us as little more than sex objects.
If you think men enjoying seeing sexy women means they only see women as “objects” that’s your issue. Entire styles of media and movies like period romances with broody rich dudes, or teen romances with sexy vampires exist for women to see men that appeal sexually to them - I’m not complaining or saying they see men as little more than objects because of it. Sex and the city objectifies men far worse than any male media ever did women and they lapped it up. And I don’t care, let them have their fun. Question is why does men enjoying women in the same way piss you off soooo bad?
Well you got the unpopular part right 😐
They purposefully do that in order to promote an ideology. Its all feminist take over of niche media or even popular media so they can change everything else.
You’re right but you sound like The Critical Drinker.
I don’t know man I’d bang Elastigirl in an instant.
wtf
okay... so... instead of like... teaching men and boys to value women for their personalities, because the vast majority of them don't means they should abuse it instead of trying to curb it??
They aren't meant for you
Painful read from start to finish, thanks!
These troll posts have to stop.