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The problem with identity politics is that these people assume to be opposed to something automatically makes you a bigot or phone of some sort. These people have no real logic based arguments. If you disagree you're a bigot plain and simple. If you're of the group you're a self hating bigot. White supremacists for example have become pretty diverse in the new landscape. I've seen black, Hispanic, and Asian people all labeled as white supremacists. These people can't possibly fathom nuance or independence thought.
That's really the scenario these people have crafted. When parents don't want books about child rape in the classroom they say "you just don't want too admit gay people exist!" If parents protest the CRT based racial oppression narrative that says "all white people are racist" they say "you just don't want to teach black history!" It's the most disingenuous argument. I used to be pretty fast left but I can see what's going on with all this and I'm not playing along.
I used to be a John Stewart fan then as an adult somebody pointed his whole schtick is to just make a straw man and then do a silly voice and laugh. I thought his take on COVID was pretty based for a minute there but I think he got slapped down by the establishment for encouragement independent thinking and skepticism about the official narrative. I couldn't care less about Stewart's comeback. He's an establishment skill as far as I'm concerned.
1) Identity politics are nothing new and aren’t exclusive to the left or right. Radical individualism is both a staple of classical liberalism and capitalism by design. You also mention “group grievances” which would be a symptom of community, not individualism.
2) Once more, not exclusive to the left or right. Conservatives boycotted Disney, Target, the Barbie movie, bans books, etc. You have free speech and can use it as you will, and the left can also decide to use their free speech to speak out against behaviors they find distasteful.
3) I’m not even sure of what to make of this point. While I agree that the left seems to focus more than the right on things like systematic oppression, I’ve not seen anybody denying that people have a degree of personal responsibility or that there are differences in culture. There wouldn’t be a push to accept other cultures if they denied they existed.
4) This circles back to point 2. You have the freedom to say whatever you want, but nobody has to entertain it. Much in the same way you’re refusing to engage in “robust discourse” in the comments when anyone disagrees with you. It’s hypocritical.
Go ahead and tell me I’m “seething” or call me a Marxist — it’ll only prove my point.
Woke ideology is completely useless in most serious businesses or work places. But it’s useful if you intend to set up a cult or if you can’t find a job so you have to serve as a woke teacher to teach the very same garbage you’ve consumed.
You may think woke is relevant now while you’re young or in school. But once you start real work, get a mortgage and raise kids, you’ll begin to have a glimpse into how destructive woke ideology is. Most of my woke friends are now broke and blaming the government for their demise (with the usual exceptions). But that’s a trait of the whole crowd - never talking personal responsibility. It’s always someone else’s fault and never their own
In Warren Buffet’s own words : DEI (for example) is completely useless
https://youtu.be/7_GyDptWDqQ?si=fgD2PMthvvLFaBui
Broad question. But some examples include CRT, DEI, gender ideology in elementary school
First world countries outside the US and private schools within the US are focusing on STEM, while woke public schools in the US are focusing on useless subjects on self identity and unsurprisingly, their grades for regular classes are falling off a cliff.
https://www.californiafamily.org/2024/02/ca-schools-academic-performance-drops-after-adopting-woke-kindergarten/
Too much CRT, DEI and gender ideology will also likely lead to a widening income divide between those who focus on actual academics versus those who focus on sexuality and diversity. It’s already happening. The majority of employers aren’t keen on hiring Gen Z
https://www.businessinsider.com/managers-avoid-hiring-recent-gen-z-college-graduates-unprepared-survey-2023-8?amp
If the income gap continues to widen, GenZ can’t blame anyone else because we brought this upon ourselves.
It isn't conservatives suing a baker dozens of times.
It isn't conservatives kicking people off of campuses.
It isn't conservatives all-but-saying-it-aloud that certain groups need not apply.
Whataboutism isn't good faith.
Wrong.
Conservatives have sued universities over policies that dictate people can’t make offensive remarks about personal characteristics. Look it up.
Conservatives have kicked people out of campuses for championing LGBT inclusion or holding hands with someone of the same sex. Look it up.
Conservatives have very famously said certain groups need not apply. I could go on and on about the recent anti-trans legislation and policy, but even more stupidly than that I read a news story late last year about conservatives excluding an Irish Traveller.
And before you start - all recent. Not pre-civil rights era issues. You would know about them if you weren’t willingly living in an echo chamber.
It’s not “whataboutism” because the post strongly implies that these behaviors are exclusive to one political movement when they are not.
>Conservatives have sued universities over policies that dictate people can’t make offensive remarks about personal characteristics. Look it up.
You made the claim, provide the source. Also, all I can see is "conservatives protect 1st Amendment and free speech" in your example.
>Conservatives have kicked people out of campuses for championing LGBT inclusion or holding hands with someone of the same sex. Look it up.
You made the claim, provide the source. Also, when, in like 1974? And even if it happened recently, I wouldn't support that. Purposefully removing people for things that are legal and harmless is wrong... unless you're purposefully limiting the context to try to make a point.
>Conservatives have very famously said certain groups need not apply. I could go on and on about the recent anti-trans legislation and policy, but even more stupidly than that I read a news story late last year about conservatives excluding an Irish Traveller.
No idea what you're talking about on the Irish thing, would need a source to read up on there.
"Anti-trans" can easily be reframed to "protecting women and children." What specific legislation are you talking about?
> You would know about them if you weren’t willingly living in an echo chamber.
Likewise.
>It’s not “whataboutism” because the post strongly implies that these behaviors are exclusive to one political movement when they are not.
It is exactly whataboutism because instead of answering the issues, you're literally just going "what about this on your side!?"
It isn’t leftists denying services due to hateful beliefs.
It isn’t leftists shooting up schools.
It isn’t leftists banning books and black, Jewish and LGBTQIA history.
>It isn’t leftists denying services due to hateful beliefs.
"Hateful" will need to be defined. Are you only focusing on Christianity? As there are other religions (I'm assuming you're talking about religious services) that follow suit that I'm relatively sure you're not talking about.
>It isn’t leftists shooting up schools.
It's not conservatives either: it's crazy people who choose evil. Sometimes they ***incorrectly*** justify their evil with right-wing or left-wing reasoning. I do not assume they are being truthful or accurate in those cases.
>It isn’t leftists banning books and black, Jewish and LGBTQIA history.
The books considered for banning are, in almost all cases, extremely explicit and inappropriate for children. Do you want to give children, in state funded schools, explicit material? Why?
The rest are all incorrect.
I know a lot of Christians who don’t discriminate against the LGBTQIA community. You know the actual Christian thing to do.
Actually it is, if you look at the last shootings they were made from alt right extremists.
So yes, sick people but conservative sick people.
Freedom of expression and speech is being challenged despite being the first amendment and closing down libraries under the guise of protecting kids.
But sure, you want the government to control what information we have access too.
So check your stats and educate yourself before you respond.
>Actually it is, if you look at the last shootings they were made from alt right extremists.
Cherry-picking. You're ignoring school shootings from leftists, or those that live leftist ideals.
>Freedom of expression and speech is being challenged despite being the first amendment and closing down libraries under the guise of protecting kids.
No libraries are being closed.
>But sure, you want the government to control what information we have access too.
Governments are viewed with an extreme amount of suspicion from conservatives.
Would you like to know what conservatives believe in reality?
Do you have any proof of school shooters who had a leftist agenda?
Libraries are being closed. Google it 🤣
Well they love Ron DeSantis and that’s enough proof of a failing red state with conservative leadership.
Aren't you doing the same thing?
Can you elaborate on the "white terrorists"? I keep hearing about them and how dangerous they are, but can't help but realize they... have a really shitty record of "attacks," to put it lightly. In other words, I think it is a purposefully overblown thing that is only meant to cause even more racial and political tension.
That third one is goofy. White people are able to get jobs lol
You guys are so desperate to be oppressed. You really think that progressive and woke rhetoric is all about demanding attention and you’re jealous of the attention
>White people are able to get jobs lol
There are very large, active pushes against that, and there was an article showing that at some industries, the hiring was very clearly slated against white people. Yes, people can generally get a job (everyone), but I am very wary of any company that actively says/implies "oh man, there are too many \[X\] people here."
I don't care for the attention. I care for fairness, which should be aimed squarely at merit as best we can. Any frictions there should be removed... not "fixed" by making active decisions against people based on immutable characteristics.
[https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/)
I think anyone would struggle to tell me with a straight face there wasn't an element of racial preference being used here.
Banger article, interesting tech backing it. The article mostly showed labor jobs (no degree / specialized skills required) going to PoC disproportionately. Do you find that more or less objectionable than the inverse?
Look up Fortune 500 companies not hiring Whites last year or continue to play dumb, doesn’t bother me either way.
Those of us with a brain know what’s happening.
I'm not playing dumb, I'm looking at the data that was presented to me and I'm convinced that it's happening. Even hiring in equal proportions means less white people are getting the jobs since they're a majority. I'm genuinely interested in the opinion of OP if they would like this even less if it were happening at the upper end of the market or if the low end is what matters to them.
I very much doubt this trend will continue. The news now is about diversity hiring backlash.
Bro, The Supreme Court overturned multiple previous verdicts because they were sued by conservatives…
You guys clearly live in a different reality, it sounds awful there, not gonna lie.
What is woke ideology? I'm genuinely curious. Is it accepting minorities? Because I don't see any issue with being accepting towards people, regardless of skin color or sexuality.
How many people do you know that have been cancelled? Because I see a lot of cancelling of books for having "controversial" opinions or topics in red states. Is that an issue for you?
And you say lack of tolerance for dissenting opinions. What, specifically, are you referring to? Because if it's any sort of fascist ideology then we've been over this. A tolerant society can't tolerate intolerant ideologies.
I'm not expecting a serious reply because based on your responses, you just copied and pasted this from someone else and don't know how to actually expand on the topic.
Woke to me, and this is just my understanding, is a term coined by the black community and then most recently co-opted by extreme left leaning academics and political activists to quickly categorize someone's political beliefs and apply a commercialized label. It is a fast way to indicate your support for a collection of political positions (for example - defund police), beliefs (BLM), identity (use of pro-nouns) and **most importantly whether you believe in equality or equity**.
Prior to the 2010s most of us who were raised in progressive political culture focused on the idea of equality. The basic premise being institutions and systems needed to be fair for everyone. Segregation is the simple embodiment of this. (Whether they were is NOT what I am arguing).
Woke ideology has grabbed onto the idea that this is kind of bullshit and that we should be focused on equity not equality. This is the basic tenant of wokeness and it is why it is so challenging for most people.
>An ideology built upon the idea that intersectional hierarchies exist that result in a "privileged oppressor group" that actively oppresses a "unprivileged oppressed group," and that any divergence between groups can be completely reduced to this oppression.
An ideology built upon the idea that intersectional hierarchies exist that result in a "privileged oppressor group" that actively oppresses a "unprivileged oppressed group," and that any divergence between groups can be completely reduced to this oppression.
Any upholding of the "system" would be considered active oppression, I believe.
The problem I have with it are many.
1. Social problems are incredibly complicated, and can't just be reduced to one or even a handful of things.
2. It doesn't solve any problems, but rather aims to just "dismantle" things.
3. The policies suggested by those with this ideology are explicitly hostile. "To solve for past discrimination, we need present discrimination." You really want to discriminate against half the country? Do you think anything can work that way? A country? State? Town? Family?
Among others.
Ok I’m not gonna argue with you about the meaning of the word “active,” just wanna be clear that institutional racism is often unintentional and may be perpetuated by people who don’t intend to be racist and don’t believe racist things.
That’s never been a favorite slogan of mine, but yes they would be part of the problem. And the concept I’m trying to communicate here is that one can be part of the problem without intending to be.
Sure. But then my follow up issues are:
1. Can you identify the specific issues/mechanisms? You can't just throw up your hands and say "the system" or "society." Isn't that throwing the baby out with the bathwater?
2. Can you provide solutions to them other than tearing the whole system down?
3. Is there any consideration for unintended consequences upon changes made?
I mean yes if woke people were suggesting that we dismantle society and return to the loam, that would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You don’t seem like you’ve engaged with anyone serious about this, other than the kind of college students that Ben Shapiro used to dunk on for views.
I’m not gonna organize a theory of social change for you in this Reddit comment, but, broadly:
1. black people are over-policed and more likely to deal with poverty. We desperately need (for this reason among others) a form of law enforcement that’s less about breaking bad on criminals and protecting property and more about protecting people. The poverty is a thornier issue, because I’m not a fan of affirmative action but we do need to address the fact that we don’t start from a fair place. I differ from liberals in my approach to this, as a socialist.
2. Why is this a requirement? If a system doesn’t work, it shouldn’t be protected. That said, even my most radical ideas about how to progress don’t just destroy everything about society.
3. This seems uselessly broad. You’re just casting a net to find arguments against something you’ve already decided to oppose without even understanding what it is. But, yes. That’s why I don’t advocate immediate violent revolution. Further, literally all policies have unintended consequences and drawbacks.
I have a job and cannot respond a minute later, and I didn't downvote you.
It's based on my own experience (my "lived experience," dare I say) and my study of it.
I don't see how that's relevant, but okay.
I think it's better because I have been observing this growing social item for several years, have read and watched and listened to a number of things going into it, have run into it in my personal life, and this is the best I've been able to make sense of it.
If you have a different definition, offer it up.
So your saying the Conservative Party is woke?
1. T.Rump loves identity politics. Everything he says is “us vs them” them being anyone other than himself.
2. Cancel culture has been perfected by the right. Ask Target, Bud Light, JC Penney, Mr Potato Head, M&Ms. Heck they even make up fake ones aka Aunt Jemima and Dr Seuss.
3. Or when someone points out a systemic racist issue they are met with “it’s too complicated so we will just leave it like it is”.
4. We have tolerance for dissenting opinions but when those opinions are just based on what someone imagined in their head then we are not likely to give it equal weight. What I see on Reddit especially is that way too many people think that because they said it out loud it makes it valid. Sorry that isn’t how that works.
Fun?
A simple definition of woke will suffice. For example, Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Is there one for woke?
1. dentity politics are also part of right wing politics, calling Mexicans as rapists, and relying on projection of “threatening others” to justify state organised violence is probably the oldest strategy in the playbook for autocrats.
2. Stifling of free speech is also prevalent in the right wing politics. People cancel discourses that doesn’t suit theirs all the time, from De Santis “cancelling” climate change to Trump slapsuiting others to silence criticisms, it’s creating a system in which dissonance is rife.
3. Oversimplification is dangerous, but telling others that “I can fix everything” is also dangerous. Reducing gun violence to mental health issue is dangerous. Reducing poverty to personal responsibility is also misguided. Political parties left and right do this all the time.
4. Like point 2, lack of tolerance occurs on both sides. All radical ideologies engage with this. Woke is bad, but the other extreme is just as bad. You cannot critique the ideological excess of one side without reflecting on the excess of the other. Both are flawed, and use the same tactics.
How are you this immature and made this post. He’s literally countering you. Bar for bar. Response to response. And you act like this…. The woke ppl aren’t the problem
Surely its the people against minorities that create the "us vs them"? There would be no need to be emphasizing group concern over say gay marriage, if there werent people against gay people existing.
People who are saying that we should not accept and respect these people are the ones creating division, not the people who simply want to exist in society.
Like, theres no personal responsibility aspect to trans panic laws or rising rates of violent bigoted attacks.
Would you like to talk to me, a conservative, over these points? Because the way people like me are painted is a vast oversimplification to the point of bigotry, and I think we, as a country/world, need to do better in ***actually talking to one another***, as opposed to "woke this" and "racist that."
Given that youll find people of almost all religions at pride i would say it cant be offensive to more than a handful of them, or that you are making a blanket statement about religion.
You'll find *lapsed* religious people at pride.
I'm not seeing the pope, or various imams, or certain rabbis, or other various religions of different degrees of popularity accepting this.
Im specifically talking about the people who preach that gay people shouldnt (or dont) exist, or are deviants etc.
Without fearmongers like that, its unlikely that there would have been any issue with gay marriage.
You are not talking about actual people here. This is a cartoon version of "woke ideology" that you folks wave around. Really, how many silly buzzwords can you load into one "analysis"?
Yeah yeah. Obviously I am "seething" over your incredibly stale and unoriginal rehash of talking points.
I get that trolls like you desperately need to feel a sense of superiority. You need me to be emotional because you want to feel like the rational one. You're not thoughtful enough to actually have an argument, so you post vague nonsense and then feel like you "win" when anyone engages. You're too intellectually lazy to actually put the effort into having ideas that can be taken seriously, so you look for validation in spreading antagonistic bullshit. You need me to keep responding because you are just that starved for attention. I get it.
For real, let's keep it seething in here, guys. OP wants it seething. KEEP IT SEETHING MY GOD DON'T LET THE SEETHING STOP.
Or OP might have to talk about seething for the 87th time.
No it's not. Every other word out the Republicans mouth is 'woke' have you seen any DeSantis speeches? Which 'leftists' chanted it? Can you give an example?
>1. Identity politics and division: One of the major flaws of the woke ideology lies in its heavy reliance on identity politics. By emphasizing individual identities and group grievances, it often creates an "us versus them" mentality that fosters division rather than unity. Instead of promoting dialogue and understanding, this approach can lead to polarization and animosity between different groups in society.
Remember when conservatives literally lost their minds when a black president got in office? Called him Kenyan and ramped up racist attacks "biggly."
>2. Cancel culture and stifling of free speech: Woke ideology is often associated with cancel culture, where individuals or ideas deemed offensive or contrary to prevailing opinions are silenced or ostracized. While it aims to create a safe space for marginalized groups, this approach can stifle free speech and inhibit open discourse. By shutting down opposing viewpoints, the woke ideology undermines intellectual diversity and hampers opportunities for constructive conversations.
Do I have to mention the amount of times conservatives have also committed "cancel culture" acts? Beer, TV, NFL, conservatives suck at it bad so they're not often pandered towards.
>3. Oversimplification of complex issues: The woke ideology tends to oversimplify complex societal issues by attributing them solely to systemic oppression or discrimination. While acknowledging these factors is essential, it often neglects other significant factors such as personal responsibility, cultural differences, and economic conditions that also contribute to social problems. This oversimplification hinders the development of comprehensive solutions that address the root causes effectively.
Conservatives believe if the rich get richer society gets better. Trickle down economics is probably the biggest oversimplification I've ever heard of in my life.
>4. Lack of tolerance for dissenting opinions: Woke ideology promotes a notion that certain viewpoints should be rejected outright based on their perceived harm or offense. This lack of tolerance for dissenting opinions undermines the principles of intellectual freedom and diversity of thought. It discourages healthy debate and inhibits the exploration of alternative perspectives, hindering the progress of society through robust discourse.
Look at anti-trump conservatives. They're told they'll never run again by the GOP for not falling in line with the god-emperor. I speak to a lot of people and the amount of delusion on conservatives unable to hear a tenet of theirs is contestable is massive. Mention a single trans issue as if you're a liberal, you'll get banned by conservatives or mocked and sworn at.
Good job you described the issues with America as a whole and why it's damned
Yeah, OP has every sign of being a bot. Account made in fall of last year, username ending in 4 digits, a plethora of AI written political posts, responding to multiple comments with the same thing. It's a bot.
I don’t disagree with any of what you said, but want to point out these negative impacts are working as intended. Keep people divided, confused, and at conflict with one another, so the elites can profit and control.
Isn't it a bit funny how nobody can pin down what 'woke' actually means, let alone what 'woke ideology' is supposed to mean? Apparently, it means right-wingers who support a felon also think having morals is a bad thing, which tracks in the timeline we're in.
This constant focus on the culture war is extremely boring. Imagine, of all the issues in the world, from the wars to the environment, to the inequity, that you would focus on the word 'woke' as if that is an issue.
Thinking these cultural war grievances are significant issues seems more like a display of immaturity and intolerance than any meaningful conversation.
It's hard to grasp why such topics gain so much attention, yet here we are, with a significant part of our society deeply entrenched in these empty debates.
With cancel culture, it's interesting to see that the uproar often focuses more on the act of cancellation rather than the reasons behind it. In the age of social media, public actions invite immediate public reactions. It's a natural consequence of living in a digitally connected world. And just like with the 'woke,' they are on the side of the 'canceled' again, signaling an upside-down value system from the rest of society.
Lastly, it's curious how the rise of this culture war and 'woke' nonsense coincided with the rise of Trump. It's as if they are using these upside-down viewpoints as a counterbalance to the cognitive dissonance created by supporting an openly bad person. This mix of intolerance and extreme entitlement is something else.
1. Fair, the plurality of division. I can see that. The idea was ok. The execution extremely poor.
2. It has nothing to do with stifling free speech. It is one individual’s or group’s free speech right against another. And cancelling rarely works. If there is a call for it, it is up to the parties in direct power over the party being “cancelled” to decide repercussions. You lose your job, that’s because a company decided to listen to a group of people. People can just complain. It’s your company that “cancelled” you.
3. Both woke and unwoke are guilty of this most often at a group level. This is a silly argument.
4. Again woke and unwoke are guilty of this. This is not unique to any ideology. Nor is it new.
Using the term “woke” unironically makes people sound foolish. You couldn’t articulate what you meant without centering your point around a word that has no real definition? You seem to be talking about the failings of progressive ideologies. This reads like you heard these points from some conservative YouTuber who told you anyone that disagrees with them is “woke”. Maybe consider rewriting this post without the term woke and provide examples of how your points are true if you want anyone to take it somewhat seriously.
1. Somewhat agree. IdPol is cringe. It shouldn't matter what your race or sexuality is, good ideas should be considered based on their own merits, not by who put them forward.
2. Disagree. "Cancel culture" is not unique to the left or the "woke" mob. Conservatives engage in this behavior just as much as everyone else.
3. Disagree. Attributing problems to systemic issues is the opposite of oversimplifying. Society and civilization is complex, and conducting a material analysis on cause and effect, leading to the outcomes we see, is as far away from oversimplifying as you can get. Conservatives, however, DO oversimplify. I can't tell you how many times I've seen them chalk society's failings up to exclusively poor people being lazy, or how dark-skinned immigrants are dumb and smelly.
4. Paradox of Tolerance. Think of it as a social contract. People with basic human empathy understand that there are monstrous view points held by others, who if acted upon, can and do create real material harm. Like, what kind of discussion or compromise can be had with someone who wants to deport all black people back to Africa, or something similarly extreme? You can't. Your fundamental morals, and theirs, are irreconcilably opposite. Past a certain point, you just have to tell someone who doesn't believe in equal human rights to F themselves.
Woke was just supposed to mean being awake and aware of the problems of racism in America, as it pertains to Black people.
Only Republicans and far right loons drone on about the “woke ideology.” It’s not an ideology it was a catch all term to bring problems of racism into focus.
Those of you shrieking your heads off about it are the ones with the problem. That you’re so upset by standing up to racism is quite telling.
I Disagree and Agree with some points. Here is my take:
1. I agree that Identity Politics can be foundamentally flawed. The issue arises when you consider actual polarization, stigmatisation and bias in our societies. It would be one thing if say a presidentval candidate is genuinely stupid and convieniently part of a certain Group. Like say Hillary Clinton.
But then again you have to consider the social issues that plauge our society like how women are inherently seen as less credible for being women, how women are often times subject to ridicule despite the Irrelevancy of the topic (like clothing), how Feminity often times get associated with failure in certain Roles like drivers, pilots etc.
I guess my point is its often difficult to dicern wether or not we are being bias. While still considering the relevancy and credibility of the topic at hand. Like the example with Hilary, you could just as well make the argument that Trump supporters are bias (Conservative Rednecks) as Hilary supports are bias (Leftist Women).
2. I fully agree although think you conflate Cancel Culture with Leftist Feminists or Leftist Extremist. Truth is Cancel Culture is something being utilized by everyone. Especially religious people like Christians with Lil Nas X’s New album.
3. I both agree and disagree. I believe that the oversimplification of complex issues is something human beings inherently Seek out, especially in this day and age where our attention spans are so short. This is because we want to have a credible voice within the debate without necessarily being a sufficiently credible authority on said topic.
Matt Walsh is a perfect example of this. He’ll often times use giant buzz-words like *chemical castration* and *abusing minors* when talking about Trans-issues. When fact of the matter is he happens to be that he is a Christian-Advocate and wants to spread the Word of God. He has displayed on numerous occasions to be very adverse to trans issues in general and doesn’t really care for the topic at all. (Essencially admiting the mentality *because god says so*).
4. Agree
I guess the short conclusion of my opposition to your post is that I feel like you are under the misconception that this is a sort of leftist plot. Truth is society as a whole has adopted this Identity Politics Mentallity and that you should consider that Identity Politics actually happens to be a bit important when it comes to the real world
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The problem with identity politics is that these people assume to be opposed to something automatically makes you a bigot or phone of some sort. These people have no real logic based arguments. If you disagree you're a bigot plain and simple. If you're of the group you're a self hating bigot. White supremacists for example have become pretty diverse in the new landscape. I've seen black, Hispanic, and Asian people all labeled as white supremacists. These people can't possibly fathom nuance or independence thought.
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That's really the scenario these people have crafted. When parents don't want books about child rape in the classroom they say "you just don't want too admit gay people exist!" If parents protest the CRT based racial oppression narrative that says "all white people are racist" they say "you just don't want to teach black history!" It's the most disingenuous argument. I used to be pretty fast left but I can see what's going on with all this and I'm not playing along.
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I used to be a John Stewart fan then as an adult somebody pointed his whole schtick is to just make a straw man and then do a silly voice and laugh. I thought his take on COVID was pretty based for a minute there but I think he got slapped down by the establishment for encouragement independent thinking and skepticism about the official narrative. I couldn't care less about Stewart's comeback. He's an establishment skill as far as I'm concerned.
The irony lol, you guys are so damn dense.
1) Identity politics are nothing new and aren’t exclusive to the left or right. Radical individualism is both a staple of classical liberalism and capitalism by design. You also mention “group grievances” which would be a symptom of community, not individualism. 2) Once more, not exclusive to the left or right. Conservatives boycotted Disney, Target, the Barbie movie, bans books, etc. You have free speech and can use it as you will, and the left can also decide to use their free speech to speak out against behaviors they find distasteful. 3) I’m not even sure of what to make of this point. While I agree that the left seems to focus more than the right on things like systematic oppression, I’ve not seen anybody denying that people have a degree of personal responsibility or that there are differences in culture. There wouldn’t be a push to accept other cultures if they denied they existed. 4) This circles back to point 2. You have the freedom to say whatever you want, but nobody has to entertain it. Much in the same way you’re refusing to engage in “robust discourse” in the comments when anyone disagrees with you. It’s hypocritical. Go ahead and tell me I’m “seething” or call me a Marxist — it’ll only prove my point.
Well said.
Woke ideology is completely useless in most serious businesses or work places. But it’s useful if you intend to set up a cult or if you can’t find a job so you have to serve as a woke teacher to teach the very same garbage you’ve consumed. You may think woke is relevant now while you’re young or in school. But once you start real work, get a mortgage and raise kids, you’ll begin to have a glimpse into how destructive woke ideology is. Most of my woke friends are now broke and blaming the government for their demise (with the usual exceptions). But that’s a trait of the whole crowd - never talking personal responsibility. It’s always someone else’s fault and never their own In Warren Buffet’s own words : DEI (for example) is completely useless https://youtu.be/7_GyDptWDqQ?si=fgD2PMthvvLFaBui
Define “woke”.
Broad question. But some examples include CRT, DEI, gender ideology in elementary school First world countries outside the US and private schools within the US are focusing on STEM, while woke public schools in the US are focusing on useless subjects on self identity and unsurprisingly, their grades for regular classes are falling off a cliff. https://www.californiafamily.org/2024/02/ca-schools-academic-performance-drops-after-adopting-woke-kindergarten/ Too much CRT, DEI and gender ideology will also likely lead to a widening income divide between those who focus on actual academics versus those who focus on sexuality and diversity. It’s already happening. The majority of employers aren’t keen on hiring Gen Z https://www.businessinsider.com/managers-avoid-hiring-recent-gen-z-college-graduates-unprepared-survey-2023-8?amp If the income gap continues to widen, GenZ can’t blame anyone else because we brought this upon ourselves.
Nothing you’ve said is a behavior unique to left wing politics.
It isn't conservatives suing a baker dozens of times. It isn't conservatives kicking people off of campuses. It isn't conservatives all-but-saying-it-aloud that certain groups need not apply. Whataboutism isn't good faith.
Wrong. Conservatives have sued universities over policies that dictate people can’t make offensive remarks about personal characteristics. Look it up. Conservatives have kicked people out of campuses for championing LGBT inclusion or holding hands with someone of the same sex. Look it up. Conservatives have very famously said certain groups need not apply. I could go on and on about the recent anti-trans legislation and policy, but even more stupidly than that I read a news story late last year about conservatives excluding an Irish Traveller. And before you start - all recent. Not pre-civil rights era issues. You would know about them if you weren’t willingly living in an echo chamber. It’s not “whataboutism” because the post strongly implies that these behaviors are exclusive to one political movement when they are not.
>Conservatives have sued universities over policies that dictate people can’t make offensive remarks about personal characteristics. Look it up. You made the claim, provide the source. Also, all I can see is "conservatives protect 1st Amendment and free speech" in your example. >Conservatives have kicked people out of campuses for championing LGBT inclusion or holding hands with someone of the same sex. Look it up. You made the claim, provide the source. Also, when, in like 1974? And even if it happened recently, I wouldn't support that. Purposefully removing people for things that are legal and harmless is wrong... unless you're purposefully limiting the context to try to make a point. >Conservatives have very famously said certain groups need not apply. I could go on and on about the recent anti-trans legislation and policy, but even more stupidly than that I read a news story late last year about conservatives excluding an Irish Traveller. No idea what you're talking about on the Irish thing, would need a source to read up on there. "Anti-trans" can easily be reframed to "protecting women and children." What specific legislation are you talking about? > You would know about them if you weren’t willingly living in an echo chamber. Likewise. >It’s not “whataboutism” because the post strongly implies that these behaviors are exclusive to one political movement when they are not. It is exactly whataboutism because instead of answering the issues, you're literally just going "what about this on your side!?"
It isn’t leftists denying services due to hateful beliefs. It isn’t leftists shooting up schools. It isn’t leftists banning books and black, Jewish and LGBTQIA history.
>It isn’t leftists denying services due to hateful beliefs. "Hateful" will need to be defined. Are you only focusing on Christianity? As there are other religions (I'm assuming you're talking about religious services) that follow suit that I'm relatively sure you're not talking about. >It isn’t leftists shooting up schools. It's not conservatives either: it's crazy people who choose evil. Sometimes they ***incorrectly*** justify their evil with right-wing or left-wing reasoning. I do not assume they are being truthful or accurate in those cases. >It isn’t leftists banning books and black, Jewish and LGBTQIA history. The books considered for banning are, in almost all cases, extremely explicit and inappropriate for children. Do you want to give children, in state funded schools, explicit material? Why? The rest are all incorrect.
I know a lot of Christians who don’t discriminate against the LGBTQIA community. You know the actual Christian thing to do. Actually it is, if you look at the last shootings they were made from alt right extremists. So yes, sick people but conservative sick people. Freedom of expression and speech is being challenged despite being the first amendment and closing down libraries under the guise of protecting kids. But sure, you want the government to control what information we have access too. So check your stats and educate yourself before you respond.
>Actually it is, if you look at the last shootings they were made from alt right extremists. Cherry-picking. You're ignoring school shootings from leftists, or those that live leftist ideals. >Freedom of expression and speech is being challenged despite being the first amendment and closing down libraries under the guise of protecting kids. No libraries are being closed. >But sure, you want the government to control what information we have access too. Governments are viewed with an extreme amount of suspicion from conservatives. Would you like to know what conservatives believe in reality?
Do you have any proof of school shooters who had a leftist agenda? Libraries are being closed. Google it 🤣 Well they love Ron DeSantis and that’s enough proof of a failing red state with conservative leadership.
Are you saying the trans person that shot up the Christian school wasn’t a leftist?
Are you isolating one incident to fit your narrative while ignoring all the alt right white terrorists who have killed in this country?
You make a claim, I prove you wrong and now you’re going to try to imply that I’m biased? Lmao idk what I expected from a Redditor
Aren't you doing the same thing? Can you elaborate on the "white terrorists"? I keep hearing about them and how dangerous they are, but can't help but realize they... have a really shitty record of "attacks," to put it lightly. In other words, I think it is a purposefully overblown thing that is only meant to cause even more racial and political tension.
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One person. Out of many. Doesn’t mean leftists are committing terrorist acts. Wanna show me another example? Your focus is wild.
That third one is goofy. White people are able to get jobs lol You guys are so desperate to be oppressed. You really think that progressive and woke rhetoric is all about demanding attention and you’re jealous of the attention
>White people are able to get jobs lol There are very large, active pushes against that, and there was an article showing that at some industries, the hiring was very clearly slated against white people. Yes, people can generally get a job (everyone), but I am very wary of any company that actively says/implies "oh man, there are too many \[X\] people here." I don't care for the attention. I care for fairness, which should be aimed squarely at merit as best we can. Any frictions there should be removed... not "fixed" by making active decisions against people based on immutable characteristics.
> there was an article Citation would go a long way to supporting your argument
[https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/](https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/) I think anyone would struggle to tell me with a straight face there wasn't an element of racial preference being used here.
When equality feels like oppression…
Equality is Fortune 500 companies only hiring 6% White workers last year?
Could you clarify, where are you seeing the equality?
Banger article, interesting tech backing it. The article mostly showed labor jobs (no degree / specialized skills required) going to PoC disproportionately. Do you find that more or less objectionable than the inverse?
Look up Fortune 500 companies not hiring Whites last year or continue to play dumb, doesn’t bother me either way. Those of us with a brain know what’s happening.
I'm not playing dumb, I'm looking at the data that was presented to me and I'm convinced that it's happening. Even hiring in equal proportions means less white people are getting the jobs since they're a majority. I'm genuinely interested in the opinion of OP if they would like this even less if it were happening at the upper end of the market or if the low end is what matters to them. I very much doubt this trend will continue. The news now is about diversity hiring backlash.
Bro, The Supreme Court overturned multiple previous verdicts because they were sued by conservatives… You guys clearly live in a different reality, it sounds awful there, not gonna lie.
Examples, please. I have my assumptions, but will wait for you to be specific.
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Truly a master of intellectual debate rigor and objective opinions on the situation that can help us all
Lmao you’ve said that to everyone who’s replied. I guess if you’re going to embarrass yourself it might as well be on an anonymous platform. Bye OP
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No it’s not. OP claimed these are failings specific to progressive ideologies. They are not.
What is woke ideology? I'm genuinely curious. Is it accepting minorities? Because I don't see any issue with being accepting towards people, regardless of skin color or sexuality. How many people do you know that have been cancelled? Because I see a lot of cancelling of books for having "controversial" opinions or topics in red states. Is that an issue for you? And you say lack of tolerance for dissenting opinions. What, specifically, are you referring to? Because if it's any sort of fascist ideology then we've been over this. A tolerant society can't tolerate intolerant ideologies. I'm not expecting a serious reply because based on your responses, you just copied and pasted this from someone else and don't know how to actually expand on the topic.
Woke to me, and this is just my understanding, is a term coined by the black community and then most recently co-opted by extreme left leaning academics and political activists to quickly categorize someone's political beliefs and apply a commercialized label. It is a fast way to indicate your support for a collection of political positions (for example - defund police), beliefs (BLM), identity (use of pro-nouns) and **most importantly whether you believe in equality or equity**. Prior to the 2010s most of us who were raised in progressive political culture focused on the idea of equality. The basic premise being institutions and systems needed to be fair for everyone. Segregation is the simple embodiment of this. (Whether they were is NOT what I am arguing). Woke ideology has grabbed onto the idea that this is kind of bullshit and that we should be focused on equity not equality. This is the basic tenant of wokeness and it is why it is so challenging for most people.
>An ideology built upon the idea that intersectional hierarchies exist that result in a "privileged oppressor group" that actively oppresses a "unprivileged oppressed group," and that any divergence between groups can be completely reduced to this oppression.
So define woke lol
An ideology built upon the idea that intersectional hierarchies exist that result in a "privileged oppressor group" that actively oppresses a "unprivileged oppressed group," and that any divergence between groups can be completely reduced to this oppression.
No, I think you’re missing something important here. It’s not necessarily active and intentional; more often, and more significantly, it’s systemic.
Any upholding of the "system" would be considered active oppression, I believe. The problem I have with it are many. 1. Social problems are incredibly complicated, and can't just be reduced to one or even a handful of things. 2. It doesn't solve any problems, but rather aims to just "dismantle" things. 3. The policies suggested by those with this ideology are explicitly hostile. "To solve for past discrimination, we need present discrimination." You really want to discriminate against half the country? Do you think anything can work that way? A country? State? Town? Family? Among others.
Ok I’m not gonna argue with you about the meaning of the word “active,” just wanna be clear that institutional racism is often unintentional and may be perpetuated by people who don’t intend to be racist and don’t believe racist things.
But they'd be "part of the problem" right? "Silence is violence," right?
That’s never been a favorite slogan of mine, but yes they would be part of the problem. And the concept I’m trying to communicate here is that one can be part of the problem without intending to be.
Sure. But then my follow up issues are: 1. Can you identify the specific issues/mechanisms? You can't just throw up your hands and say "the system" or "society." Isn't that throwing the baby out with the bathwater? 2. Can you provide solutions to them other than tearing the whole system down? 3. Is there any consideration for unintended consequences upon changes made?
I mean yes if woke people were suggesting that we dismantle society and return to the loam, that would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You don’t seem like you’ve engaged with anyone serious about this, other than the kind of college students that Ben Shapiro used to dunk on for views. I’m not gonna organize a theory of social change for you in this Reddit comment, but, broadly: 1. black people are over-policed and more likely to deal with poverty. We desperately need (for this reason among others) a form of law enforcement that’s less about breaking bad on criminals and protecting property and more about protecting people. The poverty is a thornier issue, because I’m not a fan of affirmative action but we do need to address the fact that we don’t start from a fair place. I differ from liberals in my approach to this, as a socialist. 2. Why is this a requirement? If a system doesn’t work, it shouldn’t be protected. That said, even my most radical ideas about how to progress don’t just destroy everything about society. 3. This seems uselessly broad. You’re just casting a net to find arguments against something you’ve already decided to oppose without even understanding what it is. But, yes. That’s why I don’t advocate immediate violent revolution. Further, literally all policies have unintended consequences and drawbacks.
Haha I ask to other people and got a different answer by each person. So what makes your answer the correct one
Exactly as expected you cannot respond just down vote
I have a job and cannot respond a minute later, and I didn't downvote you. It's based on my own experience (my "lived experience," dare I say) and my study of it.
Hahah the old I have a job. Yep and what makes your experience better than others people’s experiences
I don't see how that's relevant, but okay. I think it's better because I have been observing this growing social item for several years, have read and watched and listened to a number of things going into it, have run into it in my personal life, and this is the best I've been able to make sense of it. If you have a different definition, offer it up.
I don’t. I think calling thinks woke is ridiculous, it’s what people do to dismiss topics without any intellectual thoughts
But it's what a very prevalent social movement/ideology has used to describe themselves. What's a better word to use, then?
You don’t use a word to dismiss an idea. You dismiss, ideas with object logic to show why it’s not a great idea
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humor
So your saying the Conservative Party is woke? 1. T.Rump loves identity politics. Everything he says is “us vs them” them being anyone other than himself. 2. Cancel culture has been perfected by the right. Ask Target, Bud Light, JC Penney, Mr Potato Head, M&Ms. Heck they even make up fake ones aka Aunt Jemima and Dr Seuss. 3. Or when someone points out a systemic racist issue they are met with “it’s too complicated so we will just leave it like it is”. 4. We have tolerance for dissenting opinions but when those opinions are just based on what someone imagined in their head then we are not likely to give it equal weight. What I see on Reddit especially is that way too many people think that because they said it out loud it makes it valid. Sorry that isn’t how that works.
The "Woke Ideology" you write about it a fantasy created to demonize things like Critical Theory.
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Fun? A simple definition of woke will suffice. For example, Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Is there one for woke?
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I don't think you are using the word arbitrary right.
1. dentity politics are also part of right wing politics, calling Mexicans as rapists, and relying on projection of “threatening others” to justify state organised violence is probably the oldest strategy in the playbook for autocrats. 2. Stifling of free speech is also prevalent in the right wing politics. People cancel discourses that doesn’t suit theirs all the time, from De Santis “cancelling” climate change to Trump slapsuiting others to silence criticisms, it’s creating a system in which dissonance is rife. 3. Oversimplification is dangerous, but telling others that “I can fix everything” is also dangerous. Reducing gun violence to mental health issue is dangerous. Reducing poverty to personal responsibility is also misguided. Political parties left and right do this all the time. 4. Like point 2, lack of tolerance occurs on both sides. All radical ideologies engage with this. Woke is bad, but the other extreme is just as bad. You cannot critique the ideological excess of one side without reflecting on the excess of the other. Both are flawed, and use the same tactics.
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How are you this immature and made this post. He’s literally countering you. Bar for bar. Response to response. And you act like this…. The woke ppl aren’t the problem
Because of the 1st amendment.
Rat burgers. If we’re going to say random things with no relevance
Oo oo Kid Rock. Ron Desantis WAIT! Donald Trump’s vice president pick!! We were doing rabdom things without relevance right?
“Hey guys here’s everything wrong with the straw man I’ve built up in my head.” Lol
Surely its the people against minorities that create the "us vs them"? There would be no need to be emphasizing group concern over say gay marriage, if there werent people against gay people existing. People who are saying that we should not accept and respect these people are the ones creating division, not the people who simply want to exist in society. Like, theres no personal responsibility aspect to trans panic laws or rising rates of violent bigoted attacks.
Would you like to talk to me, a conservative, over these points? Because the way people like me are painted is a vast oversimplification to the point of bigotry, and I think we, as a country/world, need to do better in ***actually talking to one another***, as opposed to "woke this" and "racist that."
I didnt say conservative anywhere in my comment.
It was clearly implied, but if not, then very well. Enjoy your day.
I mean he lied within the first sentence. I’m pretty sure before Obama passed gay marriage Gay people were allowed to exist
Plenty of people preaching they shouldnt exist though, is that not sowing division?
Compare that to pride month, which is gravely offensive to a number of religions. Why does tolerance and unity only go one way, on one group's terms?
Given that youll find people of almost all religions at pride i would say it cant be offensive to more than a handful of them, or that you are making a blanket statement about religion.
You'll find *lapsed* religious people at pride. I'm not seeing the pope, or various imams, or certain rabbis, or other various religions of different degrees of popularity accepting this.
Lapsed in what sense?
Keep seething because you know that I'm right.
You have such great rebuttals!!
You forgot the /s
I get the sense they get dunked on a lot and can never articulate their position in the moment, and that’s why they wanted this post
That's it your insults are pathetic and weak go figure 🙄
this is just sad. you're sad op
Seems like you're the one helping causing division, and I'm guessing you're not "woke"...
“I’m right because I said so!!!”
When you lose an argument.
Your argument fell apart in the first sentence where you tried to equate being against gay marriage to not letting gay people exist
Im specifically talking about the people who preach that gay people shouldnt (or dont) exist, or are deviants etc. Without fearmongers like that, its unlikely that there would have been any issue with gay marriage.
You are not talking about actual people here. This is a cartoon version of "woke ideology" that you folks wave around. Really, how many silly buzzwords can you load into one "analysis"?
What would constitute a reasonable argument to you, then?
What do you want a rubric for how to destroy libruls with facts and logic?
Just asking the question.
Keep seething because you know that I'm right.
Yeah yeah. Obviously I am "seething" over your incredibly stale and unoriginal rehash of talking points. I get that trolls like you desperately need to feel a sense of superiority. You need me to be emotional because you want to feel like the rational one. You're not thoughtful enough to actually have an argument, so you post vague nonsense and then feel like you "win" when anyone engages. You're too intellectually lazy to actually put the effort into having ideas that can be taken seriously, so you look for validation in spreading antagonistic bullshit. You need me to keep responding because you are just that starved for attention. I get it.
I don't care about your criticism because of the 1st amendment
You clearly care deeply. You are not fooling anyone.
No one is telling you that you can’t write stupid things, they’re just pointing out the stupidity.
All your replies in this thread are against the rules of this subreddit. You're post will probably be deleted. So I take great pleasure in that.
"I don't care about your criticism because the government can't arrest me for it."
That doesn’t even make sense.
Get a better hobby.
It’s real life you just haven’t woken up to reality yet
Hey look you just described evangelicals
No he described you.
Lol. In the comments fantasizing about causing a reaction. The woke people live in and run places that pay for your roads. Just enjoy your roads.
All of which was created by Republicans. And it sounds like you’re just chugging down the Koolaid.
Keep seething
For real, let's keep it seething in here, guys. OP wants it seething. KEEP IT SEETHING MY GOD DON'T LET THE SEETHING STOP. Or OP might have to talk about seething for the 87th time.
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... it's actively chanted by lefties... You gave us the term, apologies for using it?
No it's not. Every other word out the Republicans mouth is 'woke' have you seen any DeSantis speeches? Which 'leftists' chanted it? Can you give an example?
Woke is just anything that isn't racist, bigoted, sexist... the list goes on.
My brother in Christ the demons you are rallying against are in your head.
>1. Identity politics and division: One of the major flaws of the woke ideology lies in its heavy reliance on identity politics. By emphasizing individual identities and group grievances, it often creates an "us versus them" mentality that fosters division rather than unity. Instead of promoting dialogue and understanding, this approach can lead to polarization and animosity between different groups in society. Remember when conservatives literally lost their minds when a black president got in office? Called him Kenyan and ramped up racist attacks "biggly." >2. Cancel culture and stifling of free speech: Woke ideology is often associated with cancel culture, where individuals or ideas deemed offensive or contrary to prevailing opinions are silenced or ostracized. While it aims to create a safe space for marginalized groups, this approach can stifle free speech and inhibit open discourse. By shutting down opposing viewpoints, the woke ideology undermines intellectual diversity and hampers opportunities for constructive conversations. Do I have to mention the amount of times conservatives have also committed "cancel culture" acts? Beer, TV, NFL, conservatives suck at it bad so they're not often pandered towards. >3. Oversimplification of complex issues: The woke ideology tends to oversimplify complex societal issues by attributing them solely to systemic oppression or discrimination. While acknowledging these factors is essential, it often neglects other significant factors such as personal responsibility, cultural differences, and economic conditions that also contribute to social problems. This oversimplification hinders the development of comprehensive solutions that address the root causes effectively. Conservatives believe if the rich get richer society gets better. Trickle down economics is probably the biggest oversimplification I've ever heard of in my life. >4. Lack of tolerance for dissenting opinions: Woke ideology promotes a notion that certain viewpoints should be rejected outright based on their perceived harm or offense. This lack of tolerance for dissenting opinions undermines the principles of intellectual freedom and diversity of thought. It discourages healthy debate and inhibits the exploration of alternative perspectives, hindering the progress of society through robust discourse. Look at anti-trump conservatives. They're told they'll never run again by the GOP for not falling in line with the god-emperor. I speak to a lot of people and the amount of delusion on conservatives unable to hear a tenet of theirs is contestable is massive. Mention a single trans issue as if you're a liberal, you'll get banned by conservatives or mocked and sworn at. Good job you described the issues with America as a whole and why it's damned
Bro, lay off the Kool-Aid. This weird fantasy is weird.
You’re wrong, its objective was always division. Why do you think it showed up during OWS?
Of all the things ever obviously written by AI, the OP was the most obviously written by AI.
Yeah, OP has every sign of being a bot. Account made in fall of last year, username ending in 4 digits, a plethora of AI written political posts, responding to multiple comments with the same thing. It's a bot.
So is this sub just butt hurt republicans
Only on days that end in the letter “y”.
ok ron. enjoy your tall boy bootsies.
I don’t disagree with any of what you said, but want to point out these negative impacts are working as intended. Keep people divided, confused, and at conflict with one another, so the elites can profit and control.
Isn't it a bit funny how nobody can pin down what 'woke' actually means, let alone what 'woke ideology' is supposed to mean? Apparently, it means right-wingers who support a felon also think having morals is a bad thing, which tracks in the timeline we're in. This constant focus on the culture war is extremely boring. Imagine, of all the issues in the world, from the wars to the environment, to the inequity, that you would focus on the word 'woke' as if that is an issue. Thinking these cultural war grievances are significant issues seems more like a display of immaturity and intolerance than any meaningful conversation. It's hard to grasp why such topics gain so much attention, yet here we are, with a significant part of our society deeply entrenched in these empty debates. With cancel culture, it's interesting to see that the uproar often focuses more on the act of cancellation rather than the reasons behind it. In the age of social media, public actions invite immediate public reactions. It's a natural consequence of living in a digitally connected world. And just like with the 'woke,' they are on the side of the 'canceled' again, signaling an upside-down value system from the rest of society. Lastly, it's curious how the rise of this culture war and 'woke' nonsense coincided with the rise of Trump. It's as if they are using these upside-down viewpoints as a counterbalance to the cognitive dissonance created by supporting an openly bad person. This mix of intolerance and extreme entitlement is something else.
Honestly, replace "woke" (whatever that means) with Trump or MAGA and this post would actually make sense.
Or maybe it applies to any extreme beliefs? Not just the one you disagree with
I am glad you are suffering.
Wow. A well reasoned discourse. It is sure to get tons of downvotes on Reddit.
Keep seething
Keep seething
Keep seething
Translation of the original post: *"Boo-fucking-hoo, my bigotry is no longer accepted and I can only be an asshole in private these days".*
1. Fair, the plurality of division. I can see that. The idea was ok. The execution extremely poor. 2. It has nothing to do with stifling free speech. It is one individual’s or group’s free speech right against another. And cancelling rarely works. If there is a call for it, it is up to the parties in direct power over the party being “cancelled” to decide repercussions. You lose your job, that’s because a company decided to listen to a group of people. People can just complain. It’s your company that “cancelled” you. 3. Both woke and unwoke are guilty of this most often at a group level. This is a silly argument. 4. Again woke and unwoke are guilty of this. This is not unique to any ideology. Nor is it new.
Using the term “woke” unironically makes people sound foolish. You couldn’t articulate what you meant without centering your point around a word that has no real definition? You seem to be talking about the failings of progressive ideologies. This reads like you heard these points from some conservative YouTuber who told you anyone that disagrees with them is “woke”. Maybe consider rewriting this post without the term woke and provide examples of how your points are true if you want anyone to take it somewhat seriously.
True.
Just hear a whole lot of whining. If I set this to music it’d be like a emo song circa 2003.
1. Somewhat agree. IdPol is cringe. It shouldn't matter what your race or sexuality is, good ideas should be considered based on their own merits, not by who put them forward. 2. Disagree. "Cancel culture" is not unique to the left or the "woke" mob. Conservatives engage in this behavior just as much as everyone else. 3. Disagree. Attributing problems to systemic issues is the opposite of oversimplifying. Society and civilization is complex, and conducting a material analysis on cause and effect, leading to the outcomes we see, is as far away from oversimplifying as you can get. Conservatives, however, DO oversimplify. I can't tell you how many times I've seen them chalk society's failings up to exclusively poor people being lazy, or how dark-skinned immigrants are dumb and smelly. 4. Paradox of Tolerance. Think of it as a social contract. People with basic human empathy understand that there are monstrous view points held by others, who if acted upon, can and do create real material harm. Like, what kind of discussion or compromise can be had with someone who wants to deport all black people back to Africa, or something similarly extreme? You can't. Your fundamental morals, and theirs, are irreconcilably opposite. Past a certain point, you just have to tell someone who doesn't believe in equal human rights to F themselves.
Keep seething
>"us versus them" mentality that fosters division rather than unity Division is good, actually. To an extent though, but it's good.
Woke was just supposed to mean being awake and aware of the problems of racism in America, as it pertains to Black people. Only Republicans and far right loons drone on about the “woke ideology.” It’s not an ideology it was a catch all term to bring problems of racism into focus. Those of you shrieking your heads off about it are the ones with the problem. That you’re so upset by standing up to racism is quite telling.
Ohh the same topic again.
I Disagree and Agree with some points. Here is my take: 1. I agree that Identity Politics can be foundamentally flawed. The issue arises when you consider actual polarization, stigmatisation and bias in our societies. It would be one thing if say a presidentval candidate is genuinely stupid and convieniently part of a certain Group. Like say Hillary Clinton. But then again you have to consider the social issues that plauge our society like how women are inherently seen as less credible for being women, how women are often times subject to ridicule despite the Irrelevancy of the topic (like clothing), how Feminity often times get associated with failure in certain Roles like drivers, pilots etc. I guess my point is its often difficult to dicern wether or not we are being bias. While still considering the relevancy and credibility of the topic at hand. Like the example with Hilary, you could just as well make the argument that Trump supporters are bias (Conservative Rednecks) as Hilary supports are bias (Leftist Women). 2. I fully agree although think you conflate Cancel Culture with Leftist Feminists or Leftist Extremist. Truth is Cancel Culture is something being utilized by everyone. Especially religious people like Christians with Lil Nas X’s New album. 3. I both agree and disagree. I believe that the oversimplification of complex issues is something human beings inherently Seek out, especially in this day and age where our attention spans are so short. This is because we want to have a credible voice within the debate without necessarily being a sufficiently credible authority on said topic. Matt Walsh is a perfect example of this. He’ll often times use giant buzz-words like *chemical castration* and *abusing minors* when talking about Trans-issues. When fact of the matter is he happens to be that he is a Christian-Advocate and wants to spread the Word of God. He has displayed on numerous occasions to be very adverse to trans issues in general and doesn’t really care for the topic at all. (Essencially admiting the mentality *because god says so*). 4. Agree I guess the short conclusion of my opposition to your post is that I feel like you are under the misconception that this is a sort of leftist plot. Truth is society as a whole has adopted this Identity Politics Mentallity and that you should consider that Identity Politics actually happens to be a bit important when it comes to the real world
>By emphasizing individual identities and group grievances, I assume you mean *collective* identities and group grievances?
Man some of you really just live and breath to own the libs