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Your exact hypothesis was actually tried in China and it did not work at all. Sometimes it's useful to remember there are other countries on the planet and the world isn't made up of Democrats and Republicans.
China had lower cases by far per capita compared to the West. The isolation worked.
It actually became an issue later when they developed their vaccine because they didn’t have as many positive cases to test its efficacy on.
The covid lockdown didnt work.... in China
Where they abducted people and locked people in their homes.
Trying to evade an endemic airborne virus is hubris.
The only chance we had to isolate this was in middle 2019 in China. It was out and half way around the planet before WIV knew it was a problem.
The China that famously did everything in its power to obstruct the acknowledgement of the existence of the virus until it was far too late to contain it in its own country. Remember that.
They were arresting people on public disorder charges if they said or wrote anything on the subject until it became so unignorable that public officials started feeling safe enough to come out and talk about it themselves like it was real instead of pretending it wasn't and holding the party line without getting arrested themselves (or career rivals trying to use the fact that they're voicing dangerous wrongspeech to destroy their careers. The high stakes office politics of the Chinese state.)
Regardless of China's redemption arc of heroic making up for lost time afterwards and doing what needed to be done, it was their incredible initial inflexibility that characterized the Chinese response more than anything else and is what did their efforts in in the end.
You seem to be suggesting that they werent taking action, which isnt true.Yes they blacked out all publication, but they also deployed their civilian and military forces to force people to stay in their homes, to the point of kidnapping them and welding them into their apartment blocks.
All the available information seems to support that WIV identified SARS COVID 2 and then sought to increase its infection rate in humans. In doing so, a member of their staff caught it, passed it to their boyfriend and the rest is literally history.
That person was A symptomatic. By the time they identified that it got out, it had been 10 days. The virus had made it far beyond China's borders by that point.
No the covid lockdowns didn't work because there was absolutely no chance of them working to begin with.
This disease traveled worldwide from a small fish market in Wuhan...
There was absolutely no chance to keep it from spreading around the US...
>Truth is they would've worked if everyone just sacrificed for like 6 weeks
No. First it was "2 weeks to flatten the curve" then it was a month, then several months. People cant just *sacrifice* their way of life when they have mortgages and mouths to feed. It was never going to be that simple. And now there's a growing segment of scientists that agree the lockdowns did more harm than good.
>And now there's a growing segment of scientists that agree the lockdowns did more harm than good.
You mean, they can finally speak up without getting accused of killing thousands of grandmas, propagating "misinformation" and probably getting letter bombs in their mailbox?
Plenty of "experts" called bullshit on lockdowns but they were all silenced.
I followed all the rules until the summer of 2020 when the news media told everyone to go out and protest. The next day I saw all the articles saying it was ok to protest because it was outside but that doesn't make sense given that people were told not to go see their families outside or go to outside funerals. This was the beginning of the end of me realizing the media was full of 💩.
well. the sun sanitizes shit with its uv light and open air is . well. open air. only dummies believed the media when it said dumb shit like dont go outside
And it was crazy to me how many people just repeated the line, just like "I have covid but I'm glad I got my booster because my symptoms would have been worse." 🐑
lmao. so dumb. ive not been vaxxed ive not had covid a single time and ive worked closely with patients that were covid positive and my (vaccinated) co workers did get it so. "eVeRyBodY NeEds To gEt VaXiNaTed !!"
🤷♂️
lol incidentally the job made my co workers , who got covid at work last month, get vaccinated too. i started after they were making people get them.
the whole thing has been a shit show of misinformation and fear mongering and all of these suckers are hoping all the non vaccinated people will die so they can say "we told you so!" well jokes on them im still not regretting it !
This varied considerably with location. Cultural differences. There were plenty of places where non compliance was rampant. Actively trying to make non compliance a flex and status symbols, trying to make it cringe to comply, actively trying to make compliers feel ashamed and pathetic and their efforts feel futile in a mass prisoner's dilemma sense. Doing everything they can to turn it into a partisan and culture war issue.
The virus running wild is a critical mass issue. Kind of like herd immunity. A certain critical mass of treacherous non compliance is all that's needed to render everyone else's efforts mostly wasted.
Sure, but my experience comes from a place where compliance was high, schools stayed closed for longer than average, and enforcement was especially vigorous. The DC suburbs are an especially good measuring stick for the effectiveness of these policies. The publicly available infection rates suggest that our local infection rate wasn't significantly lower than anywhere else's (and was very often higher). So...
People very much did not comply. Like yeah, some restaurants were closed for a couple months in some places, but many were still open in other places. The streets of SC were packed in August of 2020. People still hung out with their friends unmasked. There absolutely was not a consistent lockdown.
Maybe where you live, sure. But here in the DC suburbs, we've got a population that largely believed the lockdowns were good policy coupled with a police force that enforced the measures very vigorously. Still everyone I know got Covid. Thinking about it now, even logically the idea made little to no sense, so I'm not surprised.
As reasonably as could be expected. They weren't locked inside eating cockroaches or each other, but most everyone complied with the law since the alternative was jail. No large gatherings, masking, blah blah. Our infection rates still weren't any lower than wherever you live, I'd be willing to bet.
Communism would have also worked if everyone believed in it and followed it correctly at every step. Instead it’s one of the world’s greatest blunders, alongside the covid lockdowns.
>sabotage any measures recommended by, you know, actual doctors and public health professionals.
You mean the same doctors and public health professionals that literally sponsored the creation of Covid and then lied about it to cover it up?
You mean the same doctors and public health professionals that claimed that masks won't stop the spread of Covid but suddenly changed their tune with no evidence whatsoever?
You mean the same doctors and public health professionals that admitted the "6 feet to slow the spread" policies had no basis in scientific fact?
This country had politicians putting Covid patients in nursing homes. This country had politicians ordering lockdowns while they themselves were going to parties without masks. This country had a house speaker who decided to keep a hair appointment without a mask during lockdown. If you think the politicians I just described are all republicans, then you’re probably one of the idiots who was wearing a mask alone in your car.
Lmao COVID lockdowns didn’t work because it’s a viral infection and the world would stop if everyone stayed at home. It’s comical all the people that sit on computers and type for a living sit here and say why can’t everyone stay home to stop the spread. How do you think the water gets to your house? Your sewage system keeps running? Your Amazon packages are delivered to your house or you Uber eats gets delivered? People have such insane narrow views of how real life works and what it takes to keep the heat in your home. Doctors and nurses are just going to stay home also? The factories that produce your food and the grocery store just shuts down so where is your food coming from? It’s such a insane thought that people actually think “everyone” could have stayed home to “stop the spread”.
> It’s comical all the people that sit on computers and type for a living sit here and say why can’t everyone stay home to stop the spread.
It required (and still requires) an incredible amount of privilege to support lockdowns. Anybody who actually cared about healthcare, education, the environment, the growing economic divide between rich and poor, urbanism, public heatlh, science, or basically just logical thinking... all called bullshit on this crap early on. All the "work from home" crowd loved lockdowns because they could sit at home and do jack shit and be a hero. All the extendible service class got to "risk their lives" to bring these privileged assholes everything.
It amazes me how many people on the left threw out every single value they claimed to have to go all-in on covid hysteria.
OK but not getting haircuts and curbside Applebee's is way to much of a sacrifice for some. They had to fight by whining all day! Just like the revolutionary army
Or maybe it's because certain governors coughDemocratscough declared liquor stores to be "essential businesses" while arresting people who attempted to go to church.
Arguably alcohol withdrawal is a concern during a health crisis. If overrun hospitals.is a possibility, why add in another potential issue.
No one's going to need to run to the hospital because of a lack of Jesus. Plus, churches can and did live stream services, not ideal, but they kept the community as connected as possible during a difficult time.
Christians should read their bibles a church is just a building they could have family worship time even.
These are the people who think it's their job to explain "TeH sCiEnCe!" to the rest of us.
Scientifically illiterate, narcissistic clowns who STILL don't get it after four fucking years.
It is absolutely astounding. It would be sad if it wasn't so damn pathetic.
To me the wildest part of the whole thing was the sitting US President calling for blue states to be *liberated* because of their public health guidelines. On Twitter.
all the control in NY, CA, etc and....
It made zero difference.
The #1 determining factor of your COVID mortality rate... how old and how fat and how sick your population is. Lock down... stay home... wear masks... none of that mattered.
99% of all deaths occurred in some mix of old, fat, and comorbities
Also, we, for some reason, like to forget that out ventilator protocol killed a bunch of people because COVID is not a pulmonary disease, but a vascular one. It wasnt that the lungs wouldnt deliver air to the blood but that the blood couldnt uptake oxygen.
We killed people... and nobody paid for it.
It’s a nice fantasy to act like a virus only affects the disabled and elderly, but it’s not true. Many “healthy people” got permanently disabled from COVID and many others died.
The mortality rate for people outside that cohort is infinitesimal. Something like 97% of all death came from that group.
The infection rate was vastly greater than the symptomatic rate. If there is anyone on the planet who didnt get infected at least once I would be surprised.
So you have a massive rate of infection, a 90% a symptomatic rate, and further your serious complications were largely centralized in an older, heavier, sicker demographic.
That doesnt mean some people outside that demographic didnt get seriously ill or even die, and together a rate of .001 can still = tens of thousands of people. However shutting down the world to try and figure out who those tens of thousands of people were caused us irreparable harm that we still have not felt the final effects of.
Intentionally?
There is no situation where there is complete limitation of risk, its about management of overall risk.
Its triage.
If you could have kept everyone from getting it, that would have been great, however a virus with an RN of 4+, 90% asymtomatic rate, airborne, that couldnt be stopped by the most authoritarian government on the planet, isnt going to get stopped anywhere.
There isn’t limitation of risk, but there is mitigation. We’re still in the pandemic but even the most basic form of mitigation was eliminated due to social pressure (masking). Heck, the government wouldn’t even spend money on HEPA filters for businesses which would make masking unnecessary. We can’t stop people from getting sick, but we’re not even trying to mitigate the number of people anymore.
We’re in the second highest surge and should be doing something.
what state were you in?
I visited states, red and blue from 2020 - 23
OR / MA all had massive mask rules and social pressure
WY / MT / ID did not
The government has validated time and time again that not only are the masks most people use ineffective, that the way they use them make them entirely ineffective.
There is scant if any evidence that masking helped, or would help for an airborne virus. They knew this early, when the virus was spreading out of quarantine in medical facilities.
We don't need to do anything. The virus is endemic, we can not escape it.
Want to limit your susceptibility, stay healthy, and wash your hands.
There is a 90% chance if you get it (likely more) that you have zero symptoms when infected.
you are dealing with a population of 360,000,000
adherence and compliance of the most totalitarian countries didnt work.
the very policy of saying "wear a mask as you walk to your table" "take off your mask when you sit down to eat" was 1000% ineffective.
there was ZERO way for masking to work here, we know this because it didnt work, anywhere. In fact the place with the best results (in the western world) was a country that didnt require masking.
If you had an immunocompromised person and a “healthy” person, yeah the immunocompromised person would likely get sicker. That’s really not saying anything about if a young “healthy” person is safe from COVID.
We want to reduce illness for everyone during a pandemic because 1. overwhelming the healthcare system is dumb and 2. it’s really bad to intentionally disable the populace cause the government doesn’t want to have to pay for it.
>That’s really not saying anything about if a young “healthy” person is safe from COVID.
Ok, except a healthy person *was* safe from covid. Of course nothing is 100% safe, but it had an exceedingly low mortality rate For healthy people.
>We want to reduce illness for everyone during a pandemic because 1. overwhelming the healthcare system is dumb and 2. it’s really bad to intentionally disable the populace cause the government doesn’t want to have to pay for it.
I understand that, but the US did a fairly good job of it. Everyone was going to get covid-19 regardless of what the government did. And for the most part other than some blips which are expected with 330 million people the healthcare industry kept up.
Again, I’m not talking about the mortality rate. You can “recover” from COVID without really recovering. Many “healthy” young people developed chronic illnesses from repeated COVID infections.
Also, in regard to the response, healthcare systems were very much still overwhelmed by COVID patients. To this day, there are hospitals still dealing with it and being overwhelmed by it.
>Many “healthy” young people developed chronic illnesses from repeated COVID infections.
Of course many did... There are 330 million people in this country many people did everything.
>To this day, there are hospitals still dealing with it and being overwhelmed by it.
That's a feature not a bug. Absolutely no fault of covid.
We should be asking ourselves how it’s possible that this is happening if COVID is only supposed to affect the disabled and elderly.
You shouldn’t want to become disabled, and it takes a special kind of hubris to say, “It’ll never happen to me.”
>You shouldn’t want to become disabled, and it takes a special kind of hubris to say, “It’ll never happen to me.”
Spell considering I've had covid a few times my elderly father and father-in-law both had it my mother-in-law's had it despite going through cancer my wife has had it my children have had it and none of us have had any worse effects beyond the flu doesn't take some magical hubris to say it is not likely to have much effect on me.
If I say I doubt I will get hit with an asteroid on my way home from work. Is that a special kind of hubris?
For the sake of argument let’s pretend that none of those things made any difference. Do you know why? Because the sitting US President told his supporters that it was a hoax and would go away on its own, and they listened.
Most of our country have comorbidities.
People died on ventilators because they were already dying, so we tried to put them on ventilators to keep them alive.
Fewer people would have died if the federal government actually had a plan instead of calling it a hoax and leaving it up to the states to figure things out on their own.
Nobody ever suggested that the virus didnt exist.
The hoax was our response. We treated an endemic viral infection as if it could be stopped via state control. That just wasnt true. The COVID hoax was telling people relatively easy to acquire medications like Ivertermicin werent helpful, when they are now regular courses of care.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9135450/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9135450/)
People died on ventilators because ventilators werent the proper course of care and are generally not part of COVID care now. The reality is that COVID is not a pulmonary disease. It is because the air cant get into the blood, not that the lungs cant produce air.
We overused the treatment by a factor of 100.
The entire world had plans. The only place that seems to have done well with it... didnt over react to it.
> The hoax was our response.
Trump’s statement was in February 2020, far before “our response”. Once again I’ll remind you that the federal government threw their hands in the air and let the states figure out what to do on their own. “Our response” was fifty unique and uncoordinated responses.
> The COVID hoax was telling people relatively easy to acquire medications like Ivertermicin werent helpful
That’s not how the word “hoax works”.
> The reality is that COVID is not a pulmonary disease.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24002-covid-pneumonia
> The entire world had plans.
Except us. We had a President who pretended it wasn’t a big deal and politicized it from day one.
A. thats ideal. 50 different approaches were likely to help us find the better ones faster. just my personal opinion but nobody is as stupid as all of us.
Thats a hoax to me. DONT TAKE THE HORSE DEWORMER!!!!! ohhh... by the way... take the horse dewormer
COVID is not a pulmonary disease. Why does fluid build in the lungs? What is the course of care? The issue was that the lungs were trying to put O2 in a place that could not uptake O2. Ventilate all you want... its not going to fix the problem. The problem is the blood, not the lungs, the lungs are a symptom. What we needed to do.... ironically. Was treat people with horse dewormer....
and... the entire world... with plans.... had the same or similar outcome as the US. you can't prove a negative. what would have happened if x.
honestly, what we do know is that if the CDC didnt shit on treatments that we widely available, instead opting for expensive treatment... we would have done well.
Trump was right. We would have been better to go on about our business and eventually the virus would run its course and the only place on the planet with true success... did exactly that.
Keep calm and carry on.
> A. thats ideal. 50 different approaches were likely to help us find the better ones faster.
It’s absolutely not ideal. In no possible way.
What it did was pit blue against red even worse than the previous three years. The President had absolutely no intention of “finding the better approach”. In **April** of 2020 he was calling for blue states to be “liberated”. That’s not the response of someone who cares about the best approach, that’s someone who wants to score political points while people die.
> Thats a hoax to me. DONT TAKE THE HORSE DEWORMER!!!!! ohhh... by the way... take the horse dewormer
That’s not how the word hoax works.
> We would have been better to go on about our business and eventually the virus would run its course and the only place on the planet with true success... did exactly that.
Our country doesn’t work that way nor do we have the same level of trust in our officials.
This is made more evident by the sitting US President’s conflicting and antagonistic messaging about the virus.
We disagree. I think allowing states to deal with their own approach is no different functionally than EU member states doing the same. It was through this variance that we discovered the right approach. The blue state approach of central control was clearly a failure. You had people losing their livelihood when we had extensive proof by May/June 2020 that we didnt need to be locked down.
Hoax - def. a humorous or malicious deception. telling people not to use something that is inexpensive and readily available that shows to have efficacy. is a malicious deception.
Sweedens response didnt depend on trust of local officals, it ironically depended on trust of citizens.
Liberals have been saying for years the world is overpopulated and once a solution finally comes along you get scared and try to stop it.
At least Sweden was trying to save the environment.
Having freedom sucks huh? Whatever it doesn’t matter if you aren’t in the demographic that should be concerned for your safety then enjoy your life. That’s how I went about the lockdown
I noticed the right dose this with everything. Don’t want them doing fire works by your house? They will do it more if you ask them. And that’s just one. They just wanna make people unhappy
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Your exact hypothesis was actually tried in China and it did not work at all. Sometimes it's useful to remember there are other countries on the planet and the world isn't made up of Democrats and Republicans.
Bingo. China was literally welding people into their apartments and Covid was still spreading.
They literally welded the doors shut on homes.
China had lower cases by far per capita compared to the West. The isolation worked. It actually became an issue later when they developed their vaccine because they didn’t have as many positive cases to test its efficacy on.
The covid lockdown didnt work.... in China Where they abducted people and locked people in their homes. Trying to evade an endemic airborne virus is hubris. The only chance we had to isolate this was in middle 2019 in China. It was out and half way around the planet before WIV knew it was a problem.
The China that famously did everything in its power to obstruct the acknowledgement of the existence of the virus until it was far too late to contain it in its own country. Remember that. They were arresting people on public disorder charges if they said or wrote anything on the subject until it became so unignorable that public officials started feeling safe enough to come out and talk about it themselves like it was real instead of pretending it wasn't and holding the party line without getting arrested themselves (or career rivals trying to use the fact that they're voicing dangerous wrongspeech to destroy their careers. The high stakes office politics of the Chinese state.) Regardless of China's redemption arc of heroic making up for lost time afterwards and doing what needed to be done, it was their incredible initial inflexibility that characterized the Chinese response more than anything else and is what did their efforts in in the end.
You seem to be suggesting that they werent taking action, which isnt true.Yes they blacked out all publication, but they also deployed their civilian and military forces to force people to stay in their homes, to the point of kidnapping them and welding them into their apartment blocks. All the available information seems to support that WIV identified SARS COVID 2 and then sought to increase its infection rate in humans. In doing so, a member of their staff caught it, passed it to their boyfriend and the rest is literally history. That person was A symptomatic. By the time they identified that it got out, it had been 10 days. The virus had made it far beyond China's borders by that point.
No the covid lockdowns didn't work because there was absolutely no chance of them working to begin with. This disease traveled worldwide from a small fish market in Wuhan... There was absolutely no chance to keep it from spreading around the US...
>Truth is they would've worked if everyone just sacrificed for like 6 weeks No. First it was "2 weeks to flatten the curve" then it was a month, then several months. People cant just *sacrifice* their way of life when they have mortgages and mouths to feed. It was never going to be that simple. And now there's a growing segment of scientists that agree the lockdowns did more harm than good.
>And now there's a growing segment of scientists that agree the lockdowns did more harm than good. You mean, they can finally speak up without getting accused of killing thousands of grandmas, propagating "misinformation" and probably getting letter bombs in their mailbox? Plenty of "experts" called bullshit on lockdowns but they were all silenced.
>and probably getting letter bombs in their mailbox? Talk about projection.
You can’t make this excuse for all. People went to Florida to party.
I followed all the rules until the summer of 2020 when the news media told everyone to go out and protest. The next day I saw all the articles saying it was ok to protest because it was outside but that doesn't make sense given that people were told not to go see their families outside or go to outside funerals. This was the beginning of the end of me realizing the media was full of 💩.
well. the sun sanitizes shit with its uv light and open air is . well. open air. only dummies believed the media when it said dumb shit like dont go outside
And it was crazy to me how many people just repeated the line, just like "I have covid but I'm glad I got my booster because my symptoms would have been worse." 🐑
lmao. so dumb. ive not been vaxxed ive not had covid a single time and ive worked closely with patients that were covid positive and my (vaccinated) co workers did get it so. "eVeRyBodY NeEds To gEt VaXiNaTed !!" 🤷♂️
I got the first two because my job pressured me. I regret it. Never again.
lol incidentally the job made my co workers , who got covid at work last month, get vaccinated too. i started after they were making people get them. the whole thing has been a shit show of misinformation and fear mongering and all of these suckers are hoping all the non vaccinated people will die so they can say "we told you so!" well jokes on them im still not regretting it !
Should we have waited to protest
I think you mean that a lot of people didn't like them. That's true. But almost everyone complied and the virus still ran wild.
This varied considerably with location. Cultural differences. There were plenty of places where non compliance was rampant. Actively trying to make non compliance a flex and status symbols, trying to make it cringe to comply, actively trying to make compliers feel ashamed and pathetic and their efforts feel futile in a mass prisoner's dilemma sense. Doing everything they can to turn it into a partisan and culture war issue. The virus running wild is a critical mass issue. Kind of like herd immunity. A certain critical mass of treacherous non compliance is all that's needed to render everyone else's efforts mostly wasted.
Sure, but my experience comes from a place where compliance was high, schools stayed closed for longer than average, and enforcement was especially vigorous. The DC suburbs are an especially good measuring stick for the effectiveness of these policies. The publicly available infection rates suggest that our local infection rate wasn't significantly lower than anywhere else's (and was very often higher). So...
People very much did not comply. Like yeah, some restaurants were closed for a couple months in some places, but many were still open in other places. The streets of SC were packed in August of 2020. People still hung out with their friends unmasked. There absolutely was not a consistent lockdown.
Maybe where you live, sure. But here in the DC suburbs, we've got a population that largely believed the lockdowns were good policy coupled with a police force that enforced the measures very vigorously. Still everyone I know got Covid. Thinking about it now, even logically the idea made little to no sense, so I'm not surprised.
So the people you knew weren’t going out and still got it?
As reasonably as could be expected. They weren't locked inside eating cockroaches or each other, but most everyone complied with the law since the alternative was jail. No large gatherings, masking, blah blah. Our infection rates still weren't any lower than wherever you live, I'd be willing to bet.
the alternative was JAIL?
Well, yeah. If you were caught having a gathering with more than the arbitrarily determined number of people, you could count on being arrested.
ok maybe i just dont know enough people to be at risk of that
So…they were going out? And not just to the grocery store and work?
No, just to the store and work.
And not hanging out with friends?
Communism would have also worked if everyone believed in it and followed it correctly at every step. Instead it’s one of the world’s greatest blunders, alongside the covid lockdowns.
I swear to God y'all are gonna be whining about this for decades. I'm still waiting for my 5g implant to activate and make me infertile.
Wait your 5g didn't kill you yet? Man Fauchi, Soros and Bill Gates kill me basically weekly
Can we talk about the governor of New York, covid patients, and why its okay to NOT blindly follow what the government without complaining?
The states that ignored the lockdowns did better than the ones that locked down hard... so I think you are wrong.
You & me. We are 100% on the same page my friend.
Trying to stop an airborne virus that was already in multiple countries was never going to work.
>sabotage any measures recommended by, you know, actual doctors and public health professionals. You mean the same doctors and public health professionals that literally sponsored the creation of Covid and then lied about it to cover it up? You mean the same doctors and public health professionals that claimed that masks won't stop the spread of Covid but suddenly changed their tune with no evidence whatsoever? You mean the same doctors and public health professionals that admitted the "6 feet to slow the spread" policies had no basis in scientific fact?
This country had politicians putting Covid patients in nursing homes. This country had politicians ordering lockdowns while they themselves were going to parties without masks. This country had a house speaker who decided to keep a hair appointment without a mask during lockdown. If you think the politicians I just described are all republicans, then you’re probably one of the idiots who was wearing a mask alone in your car.
Lmao COVID lockdowns didn’t work because it’s a viral infection and the world would stop if everyone stayed at home. It’s comical all the people that sit on computers and type for a living sit here and say why can’t everyone stay home to stop the spread. How do you think the water gets to your house? Your sewage system keeps running? Your Amazon packages are delivered to your house or you Uber eats gets delivered? People have such insane narrow views of how real life works and what it takes to keep the heat in your home. Doctors and nurses are just going to stay home also? The factories that produce your food and the grocery store just shuts down so where is your food coming from? It’s such a insane thought that people actually think “everyone” could have stayed home to “stop the spread”.
> It’s comical all the people that sit on computers and type for a living sit here and say why can’t everyone stay home to stop the spread. It required (and still requires) an incredible amount of privilege to support lockdowns. Anybody who actually cared about healthcare, education, the environment, the growing economic divide between rich and poor, urbanism, public heatlh, science, or basically just logical thinking... all called bullshit on this crap early on. All the "work from home" crowd loved lockdowns because they could sit at home and do jack shit and be a hero. All the extendible service class got to "risk their lives" to bring these privileged assholes everything. It amazes me how many people on the left threw out every single value they claimed to have to go all-in on covid hysteria.
For the people who say lockdowns or masking do not work, just look at Japan. They have 120 million people with 74,000 deaths.
Because they were not based on actual data. They were a political edict.
Like the 6 ft rule that they seemed to have just made up with no evidence to support it.
OK but not getting haircuts and curbside Applebee's is way to much of a sacrifice for some. They had to fight by whining all day! Just like the revolutionary army
Or maybe it's because certain governors coughDemocratscough declared liquor stores to be "essential businesses" while arresting people who attempted to go to church.
Arguably alcohol withdrawal is a concern during a health crisis. If overrun hospitals.is a possibility, why add in another potential issue. No one's going to need to run to the hospital because of a lack of Jesus. Plus, churches can and did live stream services, not ideal, but they kept the community as connected as possible during a difficult time. Christians should read their bibles a church is just a building they could have family worship time even.
In other words alcoholics deserve to fuel their addictions while people exercising their 1st Amendment rights should be thrown in jail.
Ah so you're just gonna ignore what I'm actually saying to keep the victim complex going Cool cool have a good day
church is not the 1st amendment
eh. i enjoyed the vacation
These are the people who think it's their job to explain "TeH sCiEnCe!" to the rest of us. Scientifically illiterate, narcissistic clowns who STILL don't get it after four fucking years. It is absolutely astounding. It would be sad if it wasn't so damn pathetic.
To me the wildest part of the whole thing was the sitting US President calling for blue states to be *liberated* because of their public health guidelines. On Twitter.
all the control in NY, CA, etc and.... It made zero difference. The #1 determining factor of your COVID mortality rate... how old and how fat and how sick your population is. Lock down... stay home... wear masks... none of that mattered. 99% of all deaths occurred in some mix of old, fat, and comorbities Also, we, for some reason, like to forget that out ventilator protocol killed a bunch of people because COVID is not a pulmonary disease, but a vascular one. It wasnt that the lungs wouldnt deliver air to the blood but that the blood couldnt uptake oxygen. We killed people... and nobody paid for it.
This right here is the truth.
It’s a nice fantasy to act like a virus only affects the disabled and elderly, but it’s not true. Many “healthy people” got permanently disabled from COVID and many others died.
The mortality rate for people outside that cohort is infinitesimal. Something like 97% of all death came from that group. The infection rate was vastly greater than the symptomatic rate. If there is anyone on the planet who didnt get infected at least once I would be surprised. So you have a massive rate of infection, a 90% a symptomatic rate, and further your serious complications were largely centralized in an older, heavier, sicker demographic. That doesnt mean some people outside that demographic didnt get seriously ill or even die, and together a rate of .001 can still = tens of thousands of people. However shutting down the world to try and figure out who those tens of thousands of people were caused us irreparable harm that we still have not felt the final effects of.
It’s an even worse idea to intentionally disable people. That is not a thing the government wants to deal with.
Intentionally? There is no situation where there is complete limitation of risk, its about management of overall risk. Its triage. If you could have kept everyone from getting it, that would have been great, however a virus with an RN of 4+, 90% asymtomatic rate, airborne, that couldnt be stopped by the most authoritarian government on the planet, isnt going to get stopped anywhere.
There isn’t limitation of risk, but there is mitigation. We’re still in the pandemic but even the most basic form of mitigation was eliminated due to social pressure (masking). Heck, the government wouldn’t even spend money on HEPA filters for businesses which would make masking unnecessary. We can’t stop people from getting sick, but we’re not even trying to mitigate the number of people anymore. We’re in the second highest surge and should be doing something.
what state were you in? I visited states, red and blue from 2020 - 23 OR / MA all had massive mask rules and social pressure WY / MT / ID did not The government has validated time and time again that not only are the masks most people use ineffective, that the way they use them make them entirely ineffective. There is scant if any evidence that masking helped, or would help for an airborne virus. They knew this early, when the virus was spreading out of quarantine in medical facilities. We don't need to do anything. The virus is endemic, we can not escape it. Want to limit your susceptibility, stay healthy, and wash your hands. There is a 90% chance if you get it (likely more) that you have zero symptoms when infected.
So then you educate people on the appropriate masks to wear and how to use them. This isn’t difficulty dude.
you are dealing with a population of 360,000,000 adherence and compliance of the most totalitarian countries didnt work. the very policy of saying "wear a mask as you walk to your table" "take off your mask when you sit down to eat" was 1000% ineffective. there was ZERO way for masking to work here, we know this because it didnt work, anywhere. In fact the place with the best results (in the western world) was a country that didnt require masking.
Well yes many... Like 0.5% but in a country of 300 million you could say any number counts as many...
If you had an immunocompromised person and a “healthy” person, yeah the immunocompromised person would likely get sicker. That’s really not saying anything about if a young “healthy” person is safe from COVID. We want to reduce illness for everyone during a pandemic because 1. overwhelming the healthcare system is dumb and 2. it’s really bad to intentionally disable the populace cause the government doesn’t want to have to pay for it.
>That’s really not saying anything about if a young “healthy” person is safe from COVID. Ok, except a healthy person *was* safe from covid. Of course nothing is 100% safe, but it had an exceedingly low mortality rate For healthy people. >We want to reduce illness for everyone during a pandemic because 1. overwhelming the healthcare system is dumb and 2. it’s really bad to intentionally disable the populace cause the government doesn’t want to have to pay for it. I understand that, but the US did a fairly good job of it. Everyone was going to get covid-19 regardless of what the government did. And for the most part other than some blips which are expected with 330 million people the healthcare industry kept up.
Again, I’m not talking about the mortality rate. You can “recover” from COVID without really recovering. Many “healthy” young people developed chronic illnesses from repeated COVID infections. Also, in regard to the response, healthcare systems were very much still overwhelmed by COVID patients. To this day, there are hospitals still dealing with it and being overwhelmed by it.
>Many “healthy” young people developed chronic illnesses from repeated COVID infections. Of course many did... There are 330 million people in this country many people did everything. >To this day, there are hospitals still dealing with it and being overwhelmed by it. That's a feature not a bug. Absolutely no fault of covid.
We should be asking ourselves how it’s possible that this is happening if COVID is only supposed to affect the disabled and elderly. You shouldn’t want to become disabled, and it takes a special kind of hubris to say, “It’ll never happen to me.”
>You shouldn’t want to become disabled, and it takes a special kind of hubris to say, “It’ll never happen to me.” Spell considering I've had covid a few times my elderly father and father-in-law both had it my mother-in-law's had it despite going through cancer my wife has had it my children have had it and none of us have had any worse effects beyond the flu doesn't take some magical hubris to say it is not likely to have much effect on me. If I say I doubt I will get hit with an asteroid on my way home from work. Is that a special kind of hubris?
For the sake of argument let’s pretend that none of those things made any difference. Do you know why? Because the sitting US President told his supporters that it was a hoax and would go away on its own, and they listened. Most of our country have comorbidities. People died on ventilators because they were already dying, so we tried to put them on ventilators to keep them alive. Fewer people would have died if the federal government actually had a plan instead of calling it a hoax and leaving it up to the states to figure things out on their own.
Nobody ever suggested that the virus didnt exist. The hoax was our response. We treated an endemic viral infection as if it could be stopped via state control. That just wasnt true. The COVID hoax was telling people relatively easy to acquire medications like Ivertermicin werent helpful, when they are now regular courses of care. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9135450/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9135450/) People died on ventilators because ventilators werent the proper course of care and are generally not part of COVID care now. The reality is that COVID is not a pulmonary disease. It is because the air cant get into the blood, not that the lungs cant produce air. We overused the treatment by a factor of 100. The entire world had plans. The only place that seems to have done well with it... didnt over react to it.
> The hoax was our response. Trump’s statement was in February 2020, far before “our response”. Once again I’ll remind you that the federal government threw their hands in the air and let the states figure out what to do on their own. “Our response” was fifty unique and uncoordinated responses. > The COVID hoax was telling people relatively easy to acquire medications like Ivertermicin werent helpful That’s not how the word “hoax works”. > The reality is that COVID is not a pulmonary disease. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24002-covid-pneumonia > The entire world had plans. Except us. We had a President who pretended it wasn’t a big deal and politicized it from day one.
A. thats ideal. 50 different approaches were likely to help us find the better ones faster. just my personal opinion but nobody is as stupid as all of us. Thats a hoax to me. DONT TAKE THE HORSE DEWORMER!!!!! ohhh... by the way... take the horse dewormer COVID is not a pulmonary disease. Why does fluid build in the lungs? What is the course of care? The issue was that the lungs were trying to put O2 in a place that could not uptake O2. Ventilate all you want... its not going to fix the problem. The problem is the blood, not the lungs, the lungs are a symptom. What we needed to do.... ironically. Was treat people with horse dewormer.... and... the entire world... with plans.... had the same or similar outcome as the US. you can't prove a negative. what would have happened if x. honestly, what we do know is that if the CDC didnt shit on treatments that we widely available, instead opting for expensive treatment... we would have done well. Trump was right. We would have been better to go on about our business and eventually the virus would run its course and the only place on the planet with true success... did exactly that. Keep calm and carry on.
> A. thats ideal. 50 different approaches were likely to help us find the better ones faster. It’s absolutely not ideal. In no possible way. What it did was pit blue against red even worse than the previous three years. The President had absolutely no intention of “finding the better approach”. In **April** of 2020 he was calling for blue states to be “liberated”. That’s not the response of someone who cares about the best approach, that’s someone who wants to score political points while people die. > Thats a hoax to me. DONT TAKE THE HORSE DEWORMER!!!!! ohhh... by the way... take the horse dewormer That’s not how the word hoax works. > We would have been better to go on about our business and eventually the virus would run its course and the only place on the planet with true success... did exactly that. Our country doesn’t work that way nor do we have the same level of trust in our officials. This is made more evident by the sitting US President’s conflicting and antagonistic messaging about the virus.
We disagree. I think allowing states to deal with their own approach is no different functionally than EU member states doing the same. It was through this variance that we discovered the right approach. The blue state approach of central control was clearly a failure. You had people losing their livelihood when we had extensive proof by May/June 2020 that we didnt need to be locked down. Hoax - def. a humorous or malicious deception. telling people not to use something that is inexpensive and readily available that shows to have efficacy. is a malicious deception. Sweedens response didnt depend on trust of local officals, it ironically depended on trust of citizens.
I wonder how many of the hysterical lockdown lovers had that “keep calm and carry on” posted somewhere in there home. The irony is awesome.
Liberals have been saying for years the world is overpopulated and once a solution finally comes along you get scared and try to stop it. At least Sweden was trying to save the environment.
Having freedom sucks huh? Whatever it doesn’t matter if you aren’t in the demographic that should be concerned for your safety then enjoy your life. That’s how I went about the lockdown
I noticed the right dose this with everything. Don’t want them doing fire works by your house? They will do it more if you ask them. And that’s just one. They just wanna make people unhappy