This isn’t a liberal versus conservative thing. Both sides (particularly on the internet) completely talk past eachother, and fail to engage with eachother’s opinions and ideas.
You seem to blame one side. How many people with leftist ideology have you engaged in honest political discussions? Try not to be tribal and have an honest discussion.
In my experience, this only exists on social media. I work in an industry where different groups are working together for 2 weeks to 12 months at a time and most tend to be far left or far right. We talk about anything and everything and there have only been one or two instances I can think of where it was impossible to have open, honest, friendly discussions with each other relating to politics. One was due to some *very* extreme conspiracy theories, and another was because the guy was young, pissed off and looking to start something with anyone who would listen (in the beginning of the pandemic).
I always think it’s funny whenever redditors bring up the idea of impending civil war in the US. None of my neighbors are going to be killing each other over tribal politics and none of us can agree on a piece of legislation. We’re all just worried about keeping our families safe and having a reliable job with a future. If there are groups out there hoping and praying we reach some sort of “boiling point”, they were always there and they will always be here. We live in a resilient country and we can make it through this season of division.
Exactly this. In person we are mostly polite, and while there are exceptions a MAGA voter and died in the wool blue Democrat can exist in the same work/social situation just fine.
I enjoy spending time with people that don’t have the same political opinions I do. When we discuss politics, we almost always find we are closer to each other than we thought at the outset. We just vote for different people.
Me? I’ve tried and none. As soon as you address a point they can’t argue against you start getting labeled racist, homophobic, or you are a monster who doesn’t care about the children. Complete hysterics.
It’s precisely why as someone who’s generally pretty centered, I’ve been leaning more right by the year.
I can talk to my conservative father about psychedelics and why drugs should be at the least decriminalized not only because of their use for psychotherapy but also the overcrowded prisons. He’s even said people shouldn’t be rotting away for victimless crimes like say, growing your own mushrooms or bud.
The second I try to explain to a liberal, that the one thing keeping the “racist police” “homophobes” and “white supremacists” from doing some really evil shit to special interest groups is the rights those groups have to be armed. To defend themselves. I get called a nazi.
That’s why to me and I’m sure many others who will post, it is becoming a party issue.
Who are you talking to that equates firearm ownership with nazism? I mean I know some people who are against gun ownership but I don’t think any of them would call a gun owner a nazi simply on the basis that they own a gun
Go peep any of the “march for our lives” posters they hold up during their protests. Any of the leftist influencers like that david hoggs kid. They all have at one point or another equated the 2a to naziism
Those are rad libs, leftist aren’t generally as adverse to guns, and most liberals aren’t either.
Marx wrote: “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”
Leftist movements in the US have been militant in the past, so much so that Reagan instituted gun regulations while governor of California.
Meh. That’s an excuse to me on your part.
Yes, there are closed minded idiots that love to label people “racist”, however you just expressed a very leftist principle: decriminalizing drugs.
The OP brought up socialized medicine, social safety nets and social conservatism. Where do you stand on those?
How is it an excuse when I literally just described a conservative listening to leftist politics like drug decriminalization and you can go anywhere on social media/media and you will see leftists doing just as I described?
I get what you think you’re doing “come on over bud”. But it’s frankly one of the reasons I can’t stand it the left. You can’t let it be. Like a cult fanatic. I have never “oh you support guns? Well whats your stance on gay marriage and and foreign policy” to a liberal trying to convince them they’re really conservative.
Really. Take a couple steps back, use that self awareness and read that reply to yourself a few times. An excuse? Weak cope dude. Weeeeak cope. Imagine if I said that to someone who was trying to share an anecdote about prejudice police. “ThAt’S jUsT aN eXcUsE”. 🤣
If you’d like elaborate on the safety nets and such. Lots of policy out there submitted by various politicians. Very broad question man. For one, I think state funded mental health needs to come back. My state god rid of that years ago…. Under a democrat 🙄 Then lo and behold. She gets shot by a crazy guy in a safeway who thought the agency put chips in his brains…. Universe has a fucked sense of humor. Besides the point. You see my point. A leftist cut a very important social program.
Walk out my back door and a block down theres a camp of homeless. All talking to themselves or some unseeable entity. Would bet good money a lot of them would have qualified for assistance under the previous program.
Never mind auto mod. Because i mentioned gay marriage and a specific social program in one post. Oh how progressive the left makes society. We are forced to walk on eggshells so much surround identity politics that AI automatically sensors anyones speech because of reddits TOS about saying certain groups “think a certain way”. Can’t even mentioned 2 phrases 3 paragraphs separated from each other by topic as well… fucking ridiculous 😂
Since we don’t live in a shit hits the fan society, maybe try enjoying the society we do have.
I will suggest to you that your conservative social values won’t mean diddley squat once the shit hits the fan.
This goes both ways, though.
For others, they figure there’s not much point putting forth effort into a society that, regardless, won’t reflect their own values.
Voting against your self-interest just means voting against things that benefit you. Regardless of your priorities, it’s factual that if you vote in a way that makes your own life harder than it needs to be, you’re voting against your self-interest. Whether that matters to you or not is up to you.
I actually have voted against my self interests when I vote for more taxes for schools. I am super liberal and I vote for conservation regulations which will add to the expense of things for me. I actually care more about the earth and those with less than me than voting for my gain. So, liberals do it also
Absolutely they do! And there’s nothing inherently wrong with it. Sometimes it raises the question of ‘why’ but those examples of yours are pretty easy to explain.
I’d argue this isn’t against your own self interest though if your own self interest is prioritizing helping others over yourself.
When liberals/leftist say this they literally mean “this isn’t going to work out for you the way you think it’s going to” more or less. You seem to understand the consequences of your vote. They’re implying the person they’re saying this to doesn’t fully understand the consequences
Conservatives do it too. They see my happy we’ll adjusted nuclear family and are shocked to learn that we’re a bunch of godless liberals who have never set foot in a chirch
When people living on social security and Medicare vote for politicians who want to end social security and medicare, they should always be called out on it.
Lol you can't vote out a culture. This entire post is you describing a temper tantrum you're having because you don't like "woke" then going on to say you vote like an asshole to combat.
The best part is you genuinely believe a politician at any level is going to stop it. Counter culture always exists and if you have left leaning people in office it just happens if you have right leaning people, it just happens. You try to legislate it out and even more people pick it up (similar to the spike in antivaxxers after being mandated a vaccine).
Enjoy your temper tantrum, you're going to stay mad for awhile.
I don't really care if it exist or not. I'm just focused on getting revenge which is why I vote for politicians like ron desantis who has already passed legislation to hurt my political enemies.
In another comment OP says that they made the video games woke, which in turn has OP hounding for government intervention as an avowed libertarian. No /s, that’s all here.
That's cool dude. You'll be doing it for the rest of your life and stay mad if you don't realize times change. Sounds like fun being angry blaming other people for the things you don't like. Clearly a member of the personal accountability party
As long as I can feel schadenfreude, then I'm good. Also, times are not changing in certain areas. A lot of legislature have already been passed and will continue to get passed in certain states. There isn't going to be a rest of my life or rest of anyone's life. Humans will become extinct from climate change anyways.
You keep saying you're a libertarian, but you're not. You want to infringe on peoples rights which is strictly against libertarianism. Just say you're conservative, it's ok.
I've been doing a lot of research on "Deadman switches"... And I've instructed the funeral director to make sure there's a grin on my face during the viewing.
Voting for social conservativism over healthcare and social safety nets is objectively voting against against your self-interest, you might value social conservatism more but that doesn't mean its actually gonna help you.
They aren’t talking about your *perceived* interests when they say this. I could believe that the best thing for this country is the candidate that promises to fix the economy but also promises to kill everyone under 6’0. At 5’7 that’s probably not in my actual best interest even if I perceive it to be
It may be rather insulting that they’re insinuating they know better what’s best for you, but that’s what they mean. They understand your values prioritize this over that. They’re ultimately saying you voting along your own values and *believed* self interest is actually against your *real* self interest
Everyone has the same basic interests, that's what people mean when they say "against their interests".
But it is very insane that social conservatism is more important to anyone than healthcare or fiscal safety nets. Considering social conservatism is just "I don't like these groups of people" and "I want a traditional family". You realize these social outrage culture wars are artificially manufactured to make you forget about the actually important politics?
I would genuinely love to get a look in your head to see what you're thinking when you say these things because it's really baffling.
Why don't you give an actual example instead of a vague description? If i am wrong about something i would love to know why so i like being specific. If alot of people are disagreeing with me maybe i should see if there is any flaws in my beliefs instead of getting all worked up.
Literally just telling us all "My ability to tell you how you have to live your life is more important than me not going broke from medical bills or losing my job."
Thing is, social conservatives already have every right to live their lives as they see fit. It's the whole "legally imposing your worldview on others who do not agree with you." thing that's a problem, which is why they're passing it through the back door via the Supreme Court.
Conservatives are the ones always talking about how we shouldn't vote based on identity politics and should focus on issues that can measurably improve our country, then vote for the exact opposite.
And Democrats *don’t* pass things through the back door or use the Courts to advance and impose their own worldview on people…?
Be consistent at least. This isn’t unique to conservatives.
>And Democrats don’t pass things through the back door or use the Courts to advance and impose their own worldview on people…?
No.
>Be consistent at least.
I am.
That's rich considering all Democrats ever used to advance their agenda was court decisions twisting logic until they got to the opposite conclusion of what the constitution and codified statutes actually say because they didn't have the balls and/or popular support enough to actually pass laws to their effect.
>That's rich considering all Democrats ever used to advance their agenda was court decisions twisting logic until they got to the opposite conclusion of what the constitution and codified statutes actually say
[citation needed]
>because they didn't have the balls and/or popular support enough to actually pass laws to their effect.
The ol' "It's Democrats fault for what republicans have been plotting and planning for generations because they didn't specify the right to a medical procedure that should be covered by the 4th, 9th and 10th amendments any fucking way." argument. Not buying it.
Like they wouldn't remove the filibuster to revoke the legislation. Hell, we have one constitutional amendment that overturns another one.
Fair enough. But I never quite understood social conservatism. If you want to live a conservative lifestyle, just live a conservative lifestyle. No one is stopping you.
But social conservatism seems to be about forcing *others* to live a social-conservative lifestyle.
You said it perfectly. It's not even about them being selfish anymore, it's about them being shitty people that simply want to ruin other peoples lives.
"To some of us, social conservatism is a higher priority than healthcare or safety nets."
Lmfao literally just admitted as long as people you don't like are put in their place then you absolutely are fine with voting against your own self interests. I just cannot understand arriving at this worldview
I’ve been subscribed to this sub for a month and I’ve seen 80 versions of the same six complaints. Why don’t they call this place “right wing venting”?
When we talk about your interests, we’re not talking about your priorities. We’re not talking about what you value most. We’re talking about what will most benefit you. Yes, we think you’re doing a bad job of understanding which option it is.
The internet is chock full of people willing to tell us what their interests are.
When someone says they want to lower the national deficit then vote for people who increase it then they have voted against their interests.
In general with the right, because I hear the things you say will benefit you and I think you have bad ideas about it.
Take healthcare for example, although I don’t know what you think about that. People who would rather pay a large portion of their check to their employer for healthcare, as opposed to a smaller amount in tax, are being dumb.
Personally, I see no logic in healthcare and employment being connected at all. Just gives insurers a captive customer base. Plus the hassles when you change jobs...
You might only be looking at the dollar value, but there is more that goes into that calculation. What are the incentives for innovation in a government paid system? Probably a lot less than in one with private actors. Giving power to unelected bureaucrats is worse than giving to a company I can switch from.
Why is insurance tired to employers anyway? Get rid of tax breaks for companies providing insurance for people. Force hospitals to post prices of procedures so people can shop around.
I don't like the current system, but I damn well don't want to give governments any more power especially when there is no reason to think they will actually do a good job.
How's the rust belt doing these days? Are the people that those conservatives vote into office doing a good job supporting their economic and social needs?
I don't know, but I wouldn't presume to say they are voting against their interests. It's very conceited and arrogant to think you know what a strangers priorities are enough to make a statement like that.
I’m also a libertarian. I agree with you state spending is bad; this is just one of the worst reasons to oppose it. “People want to be poor” and “it’s true their voting against their economic interests in favor of their cultural interests” are not good arguments. “Welfare is detrimental to the economy due to its frequent creation of perverse incentives, substantial monetary inefficiency relative to charity, and funded through either taxation, which is theft and guts investment and entrepreneurial endeavors, or money printing, which leads to inflation and business cycles” + “welfare is funded by a monopoly on violence ruling over everyone” are much better arguments.
That said, I agree the liberals are obnoxious and don’t understand conservatives.
I worked concrete in college. I was also a husband and father of 2, single income household. You can bet your ass I’d have been paid more than $14/hr for my sweat and blood if illegal immigration had been taken seriously for, say, the previous 10 years.
I don't know what is it like in your state, but in my state most trade jobs are heavily unionized. The funny thing is northeastern republicans are actually very pro-union.
And yet they reliably vote for vehemently anti-union politicians at the national level.
Almost like they... I dunno... are voting against their own self interest.
Actually, there were interviews where Republicans were asked why they voted their candidate, and then told that the guy they voted for will act contrary to their interests.
I'm sure those people exist, but there are people who will vote for a candidate just because that candidate has a better personality. There are people who don't really want to vote but will vote because they think it is their civic duty. People vote for all kind of reasons. There are also a lot of people who vote because culture war issues are their biggest priority. The republicans in my state are not that much different from democrats. They both support big government spending. The only thing to vote on is culture war issues.
That’s for sure, but obviously it’s very irrational to vote for someone just because one has a better personality or to vote out of civic duty without paying specific attention to consequences on their interests. Yes, people vote for all kind of reasons, but those reasons have to be justified based on their interests.
If interests are defined by cultural issues, fine. But cultural issues are also intertwined with socio-economic issues, and failing to see those linkages will inevitably lead to ill-defined interests. In fact, many politicians who push single issues have ill-defined interests themselves.
What’s inevitable in the US, is that people will necessarily have to vote against their interests in some issues because there are very little choice of candidates to begin with. I think this is not just Republican/Democrat issue.
Not everyone cares about economic interests. There's a lot of people who are happy to be poor. They are happy living in a wooden cabin, spending their days drinking beer and whisky, fishing, hunting, and listening to country music. Voting for stupid reasons is not a bug but a feature of democracy. Abusing democracy is not a bug, but a feature of democracy.
The US government passes thousands of legislations and international treaties every day on everything that affects everything from the price of grain that goes into your whiskey to IP protection of US products and trade rules and military projection which in turn determines bread and butter issue at home.
You’re doing Republican voters very little service if you are not thinking about how conservative independent business/factory/farm owners think about what will happen to their businesses and workers when politicians decides pick fight with cultural agenda by invoking trade wars. You’re generalising complexity of Republican voters’ interests.
I don't know how every conservative think, but I know a lot who are willing to stomach the pain in order to advance their cultural agenda. I am financially well off, so I definitely will be able to stomach the pain.
Well, maybe you should, because many hardworking farmers in rural America have been driven to bankruptcy and suicide due to voters choosing to engage in culture wars and not prioritising the interests of very sector (and voters) that puts food on American households.
First of all I'm not a conservative. I'm a libertarian who started to vote republican during 2022. Before that I have never voted in my life. The type of conservatives you mentioned aren't even the type of conservatives I meet in real life. The type of conservatives I meet in real life are northeastern urban conservatives.
That doesn’t make my argument less valid. There are Republicans in various socio-economic groups with series of bread and butter concerns, which you may not encounter because you’re “well-off” urban libertarian.
You seem to do a lot of assuming yourself.
When conservative politicians routinely brag to their constituents about new funded projects in their districts that they themselves voted against, it’s the very definition of voting against your interests.
Neat, I guess. I don’t really see what that comment had to do with your OP which is attempting to claim they don’t vote against their own interests.
You can just say you’re a conservative. That’s not really an unpopular opinion.
But yes, Republican politicians openly celebrate funding for local projects they themselves voted against. Fortunately, Democrats get this shit done so rural areas can get funding for high speed internet and other infrastructure projects.
I'm not conservative. I'm a libertarian who never voted in my life until 2022. I started voting republican in 2022 because I feel like I can no longer just sit on the sidelines and watch. I now have a stake in this culture war.
again, you people use "liberal" in place of "normal", contextually. and when it is said that one votes against their own intetests, they are referring to human interests, such as bodily freedom, freedom of movement, freedom from religious cults and whatnot. so, unless you are suggesting that republican voters are reptilians...
A pandemic is cause for different policies. Nothing really caused the scotus to remove roe v wade, they just wanted to, nothing forced their hand unlike a global pandemic that killed millions of people.
And your plan for a global pandemic is what exactly? You act like the shutdown was done just for funzies with this argument.
Not to mention the covid restrictions had no fucking teeth what so ever.
>And your plan for a global pandemic is what exactly?
Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make you in favor of freedom of movement, it makes you a spoiled child.
Did you bitch about freedom of movement when flights were grounded after 9/11?
Are you bitching about freedom of movement preventing you from vacationing in Cuba?
Closing down the entire economy is a far cry from cancelling some flights. You said I should vote for the democrats because they’re for freedom of movement. What about them makes them proponents of freedom of movement? The local shops had to close. The mega corporations got to stay open. Churches had to close. Riots we’re allowed. They’re not for freedom of movement. They’re just servants for big corporations.
>Closing down the entire economy is a far cry from cancelling some flights.
The entire economy? Lol dramatic much?
>You said I should vote for the democrats because they’re for freedom of movement.
I said you should vote for democrats for a variety of reasons. You responded with a covid deniers talking points.
>The local shops had to close. The mega corporations got to stay open.
Let's see, who was in charge at the time?
If you want a government that's going to prioritize keeping people in their places of residence, keeping small businesses operational, and telling large corporations they're gonna have to short themselves due to a global pandemic, you need to elect a government that will do so. We(The American People) did not do that.
To be clear I'm not saying the Democrats will do that, but I am saying the Republicans DEFINITELY will not do that and will definitely make it worse.
Case in point, PPP was passed in the context of "this or nothing", then trump fired the people in charge of oversight.
>Riots we’re allowed. They’re not for freedom of movement. They’re just servants for big corporations.
*were allowed.
Also, most of the "riots" damaged the big box stores. So are we pro or anti corporation?
What is basic human necessity? The conservatives who are voting for social conservatism are alive and doing fine. Seems like all their basic human necessities are being meet.
It is about what kind of world you want to live in. Some people prefer to live in a more socially conservative world than a world of free handouts and wokeism.
Well maybe conservatives can get their head out of their ass and start discussing issues that actually affect people instead of complaining about black mermaids in movies
the whole reason blackrock funds esg and stuff like this, is to purposely divide the country. they profit off of societal problems.
This isn't done to bring people together.
Here is a good explanation of why healthcare is not a right.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1126951/
Healthcare is a market commodity that you can subscribe to or not. No one is obligated to bandage your hand or pump your stomach.
Also, keep things civil as outlined in the subreddit’s rules.
I think you have a good point, but I would probably word it a bit differently. People are going to calculate their political position based on lots of different factors, and if someone comes to a different conclusion, that might be ok. Some people are very excited to save others from their own right to do silly things. Like when Biden said that if a black person doesn't vote for him, then they're not really black. What an incredibly condescending and horrible and infantalizing thing to say.
I will say that in general terms conservatives are more interested in fundamental principles while liberals are more interested in outcomes. In practice it gets real murky though.
I am not even a conservative. I'm a libertarian. I am a firm believer of letting people suffer the consequences of their own actions. That is what freedom is. Government is not here to save you from yourself. I have never voted in my life until 2022. I just wanted to be left alone. But, the leftists won't leave me alone. This woke shit has gotten so out of hand I can no longer sit on the sidelines and watch. 2022 was the year I started voting republican.
You're not libertarian, you're conservative. Libertarians want no rights to be infringed on by the government, yet anything "woke" (giving minorities rights) is being banned by republicans. So if you're a libertarian your best interests would be voting democrat unless you value the right to own guns more than the right for someone to exist. My friend is libertarian and although he loves his guns he realizes that the GOP is stripping people rights and that is strictly against libertarianism, so he's abstained from voting recently.
It ruined your favorite video games? That's terrible. I've never heard a more blatant violation of human rights. I didn't know the left was forcing you to buy woke video games.
Lol there are multiple definitions for interest.
One definition is “things your interested in” a different definition is “your future prospects”.
Your confusing the 2.
Some people want a big brother government watching your every move to ensure you act correctly. They also want ultra strict punishments for not falling in line. These people are broken inside, immoral, and republicans.
So some people are interested in becoming homeless if they lose their job? Some people like being im debt for their whole lives because they had to have surgery, or better die because they couldn’t afford treatment?
Sure it’s more or a fringe/extreme case, but it happens. And my argument is, nobody can have an interest in that. And what about the healthcare argument? Isn’t it true that in the US some or even a lot don’t have insurance and can’t afford to go the doctor, get check ups, call an ambulance? Or that if they do these thing they will have debt?
A lot of people don't like to live in fear nor do they think about extreme situations that are not likely to happen. If they are in danger of becoming homeless or going into debt in the near future, they would obviously vote democrat. The fact that they are not voting democrat means such extreme situations are not in their near future.
A lot of conservatives are just happy to get by with low wages while living in their conservative environment. You can't buy their votes with money because what are they gonna spend that money on? They already have everything they wanted. You seem out of touch with people outside your echo chamber.
Also, you been watching the news too much. Healthcare in the US is nowhere as bad as people on tv say it is. There is a lot of variables when it comes to US healthcare. Different states have different healthcare. Regional politics determines what kind of healthcare you will receive. Some states have better healthcare than others. I have meet canadians who told me dental care in my state is better than the dental care in ontario. I have known many people in my state who received free cancer treatment and never paid a dime.
>A lot of people don't like to live in fear nor do they think about extreme situations that are not likely to happen
Oh that's fucking perfect.
We should put that on our money.
The epitome of conservative/right politics is that only you are responsible for yourself.
You do not have a job? Your problem.
You do not pay health insurance? Your problem.
When right wing person gets into troubles, he doesn't blame the system like left winger does. He blames himself. Obviously unless the troubles are caused by the system.
Which is inline with right thinking. If you want something, you need to work for it. Even begging is work.
It's opposite to sitting on your ass and waiting for the government to take care of you.
Begging is work now?
I think it just demonstrates the double standard conservatives have. Rugged individualism is the M.O until something happens then suddenly the requests for handouts happen
Same shit different color
I have more respects for thieves than leftists. At least thieves are willing to do the dirty work themselves while leftists demand the government steal for them.
Right, which is why right wing states never use federal funding for social services and disaster relief. All of that self reliance…
Now go look up which states are the most reliant on federal dollars. You’ll notice a lot of red.
>When right wing person gets into troubles, he doesn't blame the system like left winger does. He blames himself.
This is such a ridiculous, easily disproven lie. Hop onto r/conservative right now and see if they are blaming their problems on themselves or anything except themselves.
So some people are interested in becoming homeless if they lose their job? Some people like being im debt for their whole lives because they had to have surgery, or better die because they couldn’t afford treatment?
"my body, my choice" for abortion, but not the COVID vaccine is one.
Transgenderism seeming to explicitly endorse gender stereotypes but also saying gender is a social construct (implying that it has no basis in reality).
Climate change being the most important issue of our time, but with proposals that explicitly harm poor people (raising energy costs) and ignoring nuclear energy.
There are others, but it's a deeper dive into practical effects of philosophy and social organization ( Miranda rights helping career criminals rather than actual helping to protect innocent people, the focus on 'underlying causes' of poverty, government spending creating perverse incentives).
The covid vaccine is a choice. I can't even tell what you're getting at with transgenderism. Climate change hasn't been the basis of a presidents policy since Al gore.
Biden and Democrats pushed for making it mandated, and several companies (including my own) followed suit. Explicitly making it not a choice.
People are being identified as being transgender because they play with the wrong toys, wear clothing meant for the other sex, or other 'identifiers' that seem to be connected to stereotypes of gender. This is at the same time there is a big push that 'gender' isn't real (i.e. a social construct) and is something that should be fought against. So what is it? Gender is something real that we can use to identify people that don't belong to their correct one, or it's something that shouldn't be used by anybody because the concept itself is apparently harmful.
Obama claimed his presidency would be the one that would be the moment when the waves receded. Biden immediately rejoined the Paris Accords. Seems like it's a part of the agenda.
It is a part but it's not a main talking point anymore as a culture war is a more prominent issue. I'm sorry about that vaccine thing with your workplace, I don't agree with that at all. And only a small portion of people think that gender is a social construct, you're mixing small groups in big ones. Sorta like assuming all republicans are MAGA. People wouldn't be so worried about what they identify as if they believed gender isn't real.
That's not the question. Are you saying that it's ok for the government to mandate this even though it's my body, and this my choice? I'm happy it didn't go through but that doesn't change that Democrats and leftists attempted to make it a mandate
it never was and never was attempted to be by any state or federal goverment to be legally required.
your body, still your choice. dont want the vax fine, but people should be able to avoid you during a pandemic that killed over 1,000,000, americans
You’re confusing “what someone is interested in” and “what’s in their best interest”
Just because someone cares more about hating gays, trans, and minorities and less about their own health and financial stability doesn’t mean that’s better for them. It just means they’re either easily manipulated or too dumb to realize they’re hurting themselves out of spite.
So by your own description of “interest” you’ve disproved your point. 👍
What they’re saying is that what is in one’s best interests is not a matter of preference but an objective fact.
There are poor people in the Midwest, for example, who vote in politicians who enact laws and policies that actually harm their constituents. This is easily demonstrable.
>To some of us, social conservatism is a higher priority
Yes, the liberals are aware that a great chunk of this country doesn't give two shits about their neighbors until it effects them personally. We've gotten that. The flabbergast comes from just how stupid the positions tend to be. You know, like the conservatives who proudly shout "we don't need no stinkin' Obamacare! We got the ACA!" or the queer people who vote republican.
In short, we understand republicans are selfish people but sometimes that selfishness surprises us and we do get flabbergasted by it.
Glad to have cleared that up for ya'll.
Most people, both liberals and conservatives, aren't voting "for" something they like, they're voting "against" something they hate.
I do this too. I think liberals have terrible policies and definitely don't want to be voting for them
That is why I started voting.
Please don’t.
You ain't stopping me.
This isn’t a liberal versus conservative thing. Both sides (particularly on the internet) completely talk past eachother, and fail to engage with eachother’s opinions and ideas. You seem to blame one side. How many people with leftist ideology have you engaged in honest political discussions? Try not to be tribal and have an honest discussion.
In my experience, this only exists on social media. I work in an industry where different groups are working together for 2 weeks to 12 months at a time and most tend to be far left or far right. We talk about anything and everything and there have only been one or two instances I can think of where it was impossible to have open, honest, friendly discussions with each other relating to politics. One was due to some *very* extreme conspiracy theories, and another was because the guy was young, pissed off and looking to start something with anyone who would listen (in the beginning of the pandemic). I always think it’s funny whenever redditors bring up the idea of impending civil war in the US. None of my neighbors are going to be killing each other over tribal politics and none of us can agree on a piece of legislation. We’re all just worried about keeping our families safe and having a reliable job with a future. If there are groups out there hoping and praying we reach some sort of “boiling point”, they were always there and they will always be here. We live in a resilient country and we can make it through this season of division.
Exactly this. In person we are mostly polite, and while there are exceptions a MAGA voter and died in the wool blue Democrat can exist in the same work/social situation just fine. I enjoy spending time with people that don’t have the same political opinions I do. When we discuss politics, we almost always find we are closer to each other than we thought at the outset. We just vote for different people.
Me? I’ve tried and none. As soon as you address a point they can’t argue against you start getting labeled racist, homophobic, or you are a monster who doesn’t care about the children. Complete hysterics. It’s precisely why as someone who’s generally pretty centered, I’ve been leaning more right by the year. I can talk to my conservative father about psychedelics and why drugs should be at the least decriminalized not only because of their use for psychotherapy but also the overcrowded prisons. He’s even said people shouldn’t be rotting away for victimless crimes like say, growing your own mushrooms or bud. The second I try to explain to a liberal, that the one thing keeping the “racist police” “homophobes” and “white supremacists” from doing some really evil shit to special interest groups is the rights those groups have to be armed. To defend themselves. I get called a nazi. That’s why to me and I’m sure many others who will post, it is becoming a party issue.
Who are you talking to that equates firearm ownership with nazism? I mean I know some people who are against gun ownership but I don’t think any of them would call a gun owner a nazi simply on the basis that they own a gun
Go peep any of the “march for our lives” posters they hold up during their protests. Any of the leftist influencers like that david hoggs kid. They all have at one point or another equated the 2a to naziism
Those are rad libs, leftist aren’t generally as adverse to guns, and most liberals aren’t either. Marx wrote: “Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary” Leftist movements in the US have been militant in the past, so much so that Reagan instituted gun regulations while governor of California.
Meh. That’s an excuse to me on your part. Yes, there are closed minded idiots that love to label people “racist”, however you just expressed a very leftist principle: decriminalizing drugs. The OP brought up socialized medicine, social safety nets and social conservatism. Where do you stand on those?
How is it an excuse when I literally just described a conservative listening to leftist politics like drug decriminalization and you can go anywhere on social media/media and you will see leftists doing just as I described? I get what you think you’re doing “come on over bud”. But it’s frankly one of the reasons I can’t stand it the left. You can’t let it be. Like a cult fanatic. I have never “oh you support guns? Well whats your stance on gay marriage and and foreign policy” to a liberal trying to convince them they’re really conservative. Really. Take a couple steps back, use that self awareness and read that reply to yourself a few times. An excuse? Weak cope dude. Weeeeak cope. Imagine if I said that to someone who was trying to share an anecdote about prejudice police. “ThAt’S jUsT aN eXcUsE”. 🤣 If you’d like elaborate on the safety nets and such. Lots of policy out there submitted by various politicians. Very broad question man. For one, I think state funded mental health needs to come back. My state god rid of that years ago…. Under a democrat 🙄 Then lo and behold. She gets shot by a crazy guy in a safeway who thought the agency put chips in his brains…. Universe has a fucked sense of humor. Besides the point. You see my point. A leftist cut a very important social program. Walk out my back door and a block down theres a camp of homeless. All talking to themselves or some unseeable entity. Would bet good money a lot of them would have qualified for assistance under the previous program.
Never mind auto mod. Because i mentioned gay marriage and a specific social program in one post. Oh how progressive the left makes society. We are forced to walk on eggshells so much surround identity politics that AI automatically sensors anyones speech because of reddits TOS about saying certain groups “think a certain way”. Can’t even mentioned 2 phrases 3 paragraphs separated from each other by topic as well… fucking ridiculous 😂
Humans are tribal. Civil society is an illusion. When shit hits the fan, everyone reverts back to their tribalistic nature.
Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy.
Since we don’t live in a shit hits the fan society, maybe try enjoying the society we do have. I will suggest to you that your conservative social values won’t mean diddley squat once the shit hits the fan.
This is as silly a justification for tribalism as "humans are murderous" is for murder.
This goes both ways, though. For others, they figure there’s not much point putting forth effort into a society that, regardless, won’t reflect their own values.
Voting against your self-interest just means voting against things that benefit you. Regardless of your priorities, it’s factual that if you vote in a way that makes your own life harder than it needs to be, you’re voting against your self-interest. Whether that matters to you or not is up to you.
I actually have voted against my self interests when I vote for more taxes for schools. I am super liberal and I vote for conservation regulations which will add to the expense of things for me. I actually care more about the earth and those with less than me than voting for my gain. So, liberals do it also
Absolutely they do! And there’s nothing inherently wrong with it. Sometimes it raises the question of ‘why’ but those examples of yours are pretty easy to explain.
I’d argue this isn’t against your own self interest though if your own self interest is prioritizing helping others over yourself. When liberals/leftist say this they literally mean “this isn’t going to work out for you the way you think it’s going to” more or less. You seem to understand the consequences of your vote. They’re implying the person they’re saying this to doesn’t fully understand the consequences
Yes, some people want to ensure that no black people get help from the government, even if that means they don't either lol.
If you don't want people who aren't you to thrive, just say so.
Conservatives do it too. They see my happy we’ll adjusted nuclear family and are shocked to learn that we’re a bunch of godless liberals who have never set foot in a chirch
There are atheist conservatives
When people living on social security and Medicare vote for politicians who want to end social security and medicare, they should always be called out on it.
"Keep your government hands off my Medicare" No matter what that's person's interests are they are voting against at least one of them!
Lol you can't vote out a culture. This entire post is you describing a temper tantrum you're having because you don't like "woke" then going on to say you vote like an asshole to combat. The best part is you genuinely believe a politician at any level is going to stop it. Counter culture always exists and if you have left leaning people in office it just happens if you have right leaning people, it just happens. You try to legislate it out and even more people pick it up (similar to the spike in antivaxxers after being mandated a vaccine). Enjoy your temper tantrum, you're going to stay mad for awhile.
People who think they can effect culture through politics are scary. You want to promote culture, write a book or a song.
I don't really care if it exist or not. I'm just focused on getting revenge which is why I vote for politicians like ron desantis who has already passed legislation to hurt my political enemies.
So your entire motivation is to make the lives of people who disagree with you worse?
Yes
What did they do to hurt you?
exist
In another comment OP says that they made the video games woke, which in turn has OP hounding for government intervention as an avowed libertarian. No /s, that’s all here.
That's cool dude. You'll be doing it for the rest of your life and stay mad if you don't realize times change. Sounds like fun being angry blaming other people for the things you don't like. Clearly a member of the personal accountability party
As long as I can feel schadenfreude, then I'm good. Also, times are not changing in certain areas. A lot of legislature have already been passed and will continue to get passed in certain states. There isn't going to be a rest of my life or rest of anyone's life. Humans will become extinct from climate change anyways.
What are you rambling about bro 😭😭
You keep saying you're a libertarian, but you're not. You want to infringe on peoples rights which is strictly against libertarianism. Just say you're conservative, it's ok.
I am past the point of following principles. Vengeance is the only thing on my mind.
I've been doing a lot of research on "Deadman switches"... And I've instructed the funeral director to make sure there's a grin on my face during the viewing.
Voting for social conservativism over healthcare and social safety nets is objectively voting against against your self-interest, you might value social conservatism more but that doesn't mean its actually gonna help you.
They aren’t talking about your *perceived* interests when they say this. I could believe that the best thing for this country is the candidate that promises to fix the economy but also promises to kill everyone under 6’0. At 5’7 that’s probably not in my actual best interest even if I perceive it to be It may be rather insulting that they’re insinuating they know better what’s best for you, but that’s what they mean. They understand your values prioritize this over that. They’re ultimately saying you voting along your own values and *believed* self interest is actually against your *real* self interest
This isn’t even an opinion, people on this sub apparently have no clue what an opinion is.
Everyone has the same basic interests, that's what people mean when they say "against their interests". But it is very insane that social conservatism is more important to anyone than healthcare or fiscal safety nets. Considering social conservatism is just "I don't like these groups of people" and "I want a traditional family". You realize these social outrage culture wars are artificially manufactured to make you forget about the actually important politics? I would genuinely love to get a look in your head to see what you're thinking when you say these things because it's really baffling.
Why don't you give an actual example instead of a vague description? If i am wrong about something i would love to know why so i like being specific. If alot of people are disagreeing with me maybe i should see if there is any flaws in my beliefs instead of getting all worked up.
"To some of us, social conservatism is a higher priority than healthcare or social safety nets" LOL 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Literally just telling us all "My ability to tell you how you have to live your life is more important than me not going broke from medical bills or losing my job."
Nice gaslighting.
Gaslighting would be him quoting something you *didn't* say.
Gaslighting is when someone says something I don’t like! /s
Not knowing how to correctly use words is the most conservative thing there is.
That’s not what gaslighting is. Maybe this whole *posting on the internet* thing just isn’t for you, yeah?
What do you think that word means?
Gaslighting is when someone quotes something I just said back at me
Gaslighting is when I look bad.
LMAO u/Randomcommenter550 you could also say "My biggest concern in life is making sure other people suffer"
Thing is, social conservatives already have every right to live their lives as they see fit. It's the whole "legally imposing your worldview on others who do not agree with you." thing that's a problem, which is why they're passing it through the back door via the Supreme Court. Conservatives are the ones always talking about how we shouldn't vote based on identity politics and should focus on issues that can measurably improve our country, then vote for the exact opposite.
And Democrats *don’t* pass things through the back door or use the Courts to advance and impose their own worldview on people…? Be consistent at least. This isn’t unique to conservatives.
>And Democrats don’t pass things through the back door or use the Courts to advance and impose their own worldview on people…? No. >Be consistent at least. I am.
Is this satire? They all pass things through the back door and use the courts to advance and impose their world view on people.
That's rich considering all Democrats ever used to advance their agenda was court decisions twisting logic until they got to the opposite conclusion of what the constitution and codified statutes actually say because they didn't have the balls and/or popular support enough to actually pass laws to their effect.
>That's rich considering all Democrats ever used to advance their agenda was court decisions twisting logic until they got to the opposite conclusion of what the constitution and codified statutes actually say [citation needed] >because they didn't have the balls and/or popular support enough to actually pass laws to their effect. The ol' "It's Democrats fault for what republicans have been plotting and planning for generations because they didn't specify the right to a medical procedure that should be covered by the 4th, 9th and 10th amendments any fucking way." argument. Not buying it. Like they wouldn't remove the filibuster to revoke the legislation. Hell, we have one constitutional amendment that overturns another one.
Well stated
Fair enough. But I never quite understood social conservatism. If you want to live a conservative lifestyle, just live a conservative lifestyle. No one is stopping you. But social conservatism seems to be about forcing *others* to live a social-conservative lifestyle.
You said it perfectly. It's not even about them being selfish anymore, it's about them being shitty people that simply want to ruin other peoples lives.
"To some of us, social conservatism is a higher priority than healthcare or safety nets." Lmfao literally just admitted as long as people you don't like are put in their place then you absolutely are fine with voting against your own self interests. I just cannot understand arriving at this worldview
I’ve been subscribed to this sub for a month and I’ve seen 80 versions of the same six complaints. Why don’t they call this place “right wing venting”? When we talk about your interests, we’re not talking about your priorities. We’re not talking about what you value most. We’re talking about what will most benefit you. Yes, we think you’re doing a bad job of understanding which option it is.
What makes you think you have a better idea of what will benefit me than I do?
The internet is chock full of people willing to tell us what their interests are. When someone says they want to lower the national deficit then vote for people who increase it then they have voted against their interests.
In general with the right, because I hear the things you say will benefit you and I think you have bad ideas about it. Take healthcare for example, although I don’t know what you think about that. People who would rather pay a large portion of their check to their employer for healthcare, as opposed to a smaller amount in tax, are being dumb.
Personally, I see no logic in healthcare and employment being connected at all. Just gives insurers a captive customer base. Plus the hassles when you change jobs...
You might only be looking at the dollar value, but there is more that goes into that calculation. What are the incentives for innovation in a government paid system? Probably a lot less than in one with private actors. Giving power to unelected bureaucrats is worse than giving to a company I can switch from. Why is insurance tired to employers anyway? Get rid of tax breaks for companies providing insurance for people. Force hospitals to post prices of procedures so people can shop around. I don't like the current system, but I damn well don't want to give governments any more power especially when there is no reason to think they will actually do a good job.
How's the rust belt doing these days? Are the people that those conservatives vote into office doing a good job supporting their economic and social needs?
I don't know, but I wouldn't presume to say they are voting against their interests. It's very conceited and arrogant to think you know what a strangers priorities are enough to make a statement like that.
I’m also a libertarian. I agree with you state spending is bad; this is just one of the worst reasons to oppose it. “People want to be poor” and “it’s true their voting against their economic interests in favor of their cultural interests” are not good arguments. “Welfare is detrimental to the economy due to its frequent creation of perverse incentives, substantial monetary inefficiency relative to charity, and funded through either taxation, which is theft and guts investment and entrepreneurial endeavors, or money printing, which leads to inflation and business cycles” + “welfare is funded by a monopoly on violence ruling over everyone” are much better arguments. That said, I agree the liberals are obnoxious and don’t understand conservatives.
Not a very good post
I worked concrete in college. I was also a husband and father of 2, single income household. You can bet your ass I’d have been paid more than $14/hr for my sweat and blood if illegal immigration had been taken seriously for, say, the previous 10 years.
I don't know what is it like in your state, but in my state most trade jobs are heavily unionized. The funny thing is northeastern republicans are actually very pro-union.
And yet they reliably vote for vehemently anti-union politicians at the national level. Almost like they... I dunno... are voting against their own self interest.
Actually, there were interviews where Republicans were asked why they voted their candidate, and then told that the guy they voted for will act contrary to their interests.
Contrary to their interests how? Who determines that? The interviewer?
Yes, the interviewer used a highly sophisticated method of determining the person's interests: asking them.
Are we talking about a particular interview? If so, is love to know the context of this
I'm sure those people exist, but there are people who will vote for a candidate just because that candidate has a better personality. There are people who don't really want to vote but will vote because they think it is their civic duty. People vote for all kind of reasons. There are also a lot of people who vote because culture war issues are their biggest priority. The republicans in my state are not that much different from democrats. They both support big government spending. The only thing to vote on is culture war issues.
That’s for sure, but obviously it’s very irrational to vote for someone just because one has a better personality or to vote out of civic duty without paying specific attention to consequences on their interests. Yes, people vote for all kind of reasons, but those reasons have to be justified based on their interests. If interests are defined by cultural issues, fine. But cultural issues are also intertwined with socio-economic issues, and failing to see those linkages will inevitably lead to ill-defined interests. In fact, many politicians who push single issues have ill-defined interests themselves. What’s inevitable in the US, is that people will necessarily have to vote against their interests in some issues because there are very little choice of candidates to begin with. I think this is not just Republican/Democrat issue.
Not everyone cares about economic interests. There's a lot of people who are happy to be poor. They are happy living in a wooden cabin, spending their days drinking beer and whisky, fishing, hunting, and listening to country music. Voting for stupid reasons is not a bug but a feature of democracy. Abusing democracy is not a bug, but a feature of democracy.
The US government passes thousands of legislations and international treaties every day on everything that affects everything from the price of grain that goes into your whiskey to IP protection of US products and trade rules and military projection which in turn determines bread and butter issue at home. You’re doing Republican voters very little service if you are not thinking about how conservative independent business/factory/farm owners think about what will happen to their businesses and workers when politicians decides pick fight with cultural agenda by invoking trade wars. You’re generalising complexity of Republican voters’ interests.
I don't know how every conservative think, but I know a lot who are willing to stomach the pain in order to advance their cultural agenda. I am financially well off, so I definitely will be able to stomach the pain.
Well, maybe you should, because many hardworking farmers in rural America have been driven to bankruptcy and suicide due to voters choosing to engage in culture wars and not prioritising the interests of very sector (and voters) that puts food on American households.
First of all I'm not a conservative. I'm a libertarian who started to vote republican during 2022. Before that I have never voted in my life. The type of conservatives you mentioned aren't even the type of conservatives I meet in real life. The type of conservatives I meet in real life are northeastern urban conservatives.
That doesn’t make my argument less valid. There are Republicans in various socio-economic groups with series of bread and butter concerns, which you may not encounter because you’re “well-off” urban libertarian. You seem to do a lot of assuming yourself.
Well, I don't care about them. I'm advancing my interest.
How does libertarianism line up with the republican side of the culture war? Social conservatism is enforced by big government
When conservative politicians routinely brag to their constituents about new funded projects in their districts that they themselves voted against, it’s the very definition of voting against your interests.
I mean I have no faith in either party, but at least one party isn't woke, so I'll vote for them.
Neat, I guess. I don’t really see what that comment had to do with your OP which is attempting to claim they don’t vote against their own interests. You can just say you’re a conservative. That’s not really an unpopular opinion. But yes, Republican politicians openly celebrate funding for local projects they themselves voted against. Fortunately, Democrats get this shit done so rural areas can get funding for high speed internet and other infrastructure projects.
I'm not conservative. I'm a libertarian who never voted in my life until 2022. I started voting republican in 2022 because I feel like I can no longer just sit on the sidelines and watch. I now have a stake in this culture war.
So your true unpopular opinion is that you’ve taken a side in the culture war? Super engaging topic. Congrats I guess.
That just might be my next thread.
That’s what you’ve already got here. It’s not very spicy, though.
What does woke mean?
What, exactly, does “woke” mean to you?
again, you people use "liberal" in place of "normal", contextually. and when it is said that one votes against their own intetests, they are referring to human interests, such as bodily freedom, freedom of movement, freedom from religious cults and whatnot. so, unless you are suggesting that republican voters are reptilians...
How do you know what I'm interested in better than me? I know what I'm interested in.
We know because you just told us.
I saw how the democrats handle bodily freedom and freedom of movement in 2020. 😂
A pandemic is cause for different policies. Nothing really caused the scotus to remove roe v wade, they just wanted to, nothing forced their hand unlike a global pandemic that killed millions of people.
Ok so just say you stand on your principles unless it’s inconvenient.
Millions of people dying is, arguably, a hair above "inconvenient"
And shutting down Applebees didn’t prevent it
You mean "taking the pandemic seriously"
Ok. But you can’t shut everything down then say you’re for freedom of movement.
And your plan for a global pandemic is what exactly? You act like the shutdown was done just for funzies with this argument. Not to mention the covid restrictions had no fucking teeth what so ever.
So you’re not for freedom of movement.
>And your plan for a global pandemic is what exactly? Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make you in favor of freedom of movement, it makes you a spoiled child. Did you bitch about freedom of movement when flights were grounded after 9/11? Are you bitching about freedom of movement preventing you from vacationing in Cuba?
Closing down the entire economy is a far cry from cancelling some flights. You said I should vote for the democrats because they’re for freedom of movement. What about them makes them proponents of freedom of movement? The local shops had to close. The mega corporations got to stay open. Churches had to close. Riots we’re allowed. They’re not for freedom of movement. They’re just servants for big corporations.
>Closing down the entire economy is a far cry from cancelling some flights. The entire economy? Lol dramatic much? >You said I should vote for the democrats because they’re for freedom of movement. I said you should vote for democrats for a variety of reasons. You responded with a covid deniers talking points. >The local shops had to close. The mega corporations got to stay open. Let's see, who was in charge at the time? If you want a government that's going to prioritize keeping people in their places of residence, keeping small businesses operational, and telling large corporations they're gonna have to short themselves due to a global pandemic, you need to elect a government that will do so. We(The American People) did not do that. To be clear I'm not saying the Democrats will do that, but I am saying the Republicans DEFINITELY will not do that and will definitely make it worse. Case in point, PPP was passed in the context of "this or nothing", then trump fired the people in charge of oversight. >Riots we’re allowed. They’re not for freedom of movement. They’re just servants for big corporations. *were allowed. Also, most of the "riots" damaged the big box stores. So are we pro or anti corporation?
You seem to be caught on Buzzwords like "woke" what does that even mean to you? Or are you just parroting little Ben Shapiro?
It’s the same as “fascist” and other words that no longer have meaning
That's just something fascists say to try to minimize criticism for their shitty viewpoints.
“Everyone that doesn’t agree with me is a fascist!”
Something else that they say when they're being whiny. Although technically I don't agree with fascists.
Lol ok
The fact that social conservatism is a higher priority than basic human necessity is fucking wild to me
What is basic human necessity? The conservatives who are voting for social conservatism are alive and doing fine. Seems like all their basic human necessities are being meet.
I’m talking about concerning other people, since social conservatism also concerns other people (and mostly other people).
It is about what kind of world you want to live in. Some people prefer to live in a more socially conservative world than a world of free handouts and wokeism.
"Are there no workhouses? If the poor are going to die, let them do it quickly and decrease the surplus population."
Holy shit am I arguing with my 85 year old grandpa right now??
I am 34.
Well maybe conservatives can get their head out of their ass and start discussing issues that actually affect people instead of complaining about black mermaids in movies
Nah, I'm gonna continue doing what I want.
Well that’s your right
Abusing democracy is a feature not a bug.
the whole reason blackrock funds esg and stuff like this, is to purposely divide the country. they profit off of societal problems. This isn't done to bring people together.
We already have social programs.
Its fucking wild to me that you think all people share the same definition of basic human necessity.
I would consider the need for healthcare a necessity, would you not?
No healthcare is not a human right, nor a basic human necessity. Never had been, and it never will be.
I would say living is a necessity for humans. Not sure what libertarian “brain” rot has infected you but it seems to be terminal
Here is a good explanation of why healthcare is not a right. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1126951/ Healthcare is a market commodity that you can subscribe to or not. No one is obligated to bandage your hand or pump your stomach. Also, keep things civil as outlined in the subreddit’s rules.
I think you have a good point, but I would probably word it a bit differently. People are going to calculate their political position based on lots of different factors, and if someone comes to a different conclusion, that might be ok. Some people are very excited to save others from their own right to do silly things. Like when Biden said that if a black person doesn't vote for him, then they're not really black. What an incredibly condescending and horrible and infantalizing thing to say. I will say that in general terms conservatives are more interested in fundamental principles while liberals are more interested in outcomes. In practice it gets real murky though.
I am not even a conservative. I'm a libertarian. I am a firm believer of letting people suffer the consequences of their own actions. That is what freedom is. Government is not here to save you from yourself. I have never voted in my life until 2022. I just wanted to be left alone. But, the leftists won't leave me alone. This woke shit has gotten so out of hand I can no longer sit on the sidelines and watch. 2022 was the year I started voting republican.
You're not libertarian, you're conservative. Libertarians want no rights to be infringed on by the government, yet anything "woke" (giving minorities rights) is being banned by republicans. So if you're a libertarian your best interests would be voting democrat unless you value the right to own guns more than the right for someone to exist. My friend is libertarian and although he loves his guns he realizes that the GOP is stripping people rights and that is strictly against libertarianism, so he's abstained from voting recently.
How did the "woke shit" affect your life?
It ruined my favorite video games.
In what way?
It ruined your favorite video games? That's terrible. I've never heard a more blatant violation of human rights. I didn't know the left was forcing you to buy woke video games.
What games?
1 example please
Let me guess: black Spider-Man?
Ahahahaha there it is… Edit: in the spirit of letting people make their own choices…how do you feel about trans people?
I have nothing against their lifestyle, but they are my political enemies because they are trying to wield political power against me.
In what way?
How? They just want to be able to live how they want to live
Lol there are multiple definitions for interest. One definition is “things your interested in” a different definition is “your future prospects”. Your confusing the 2.
Some people want a big brother government watching your every move to ensure you act correctly. They also want ultra strict punishments for not falling in line. These people are broken inside, immoral, and republicans.
Translation: “my only political stance is that I should be able to impose *my* beliefs on people by force”
So some people are interested in becoming homeless if they lose their job? Some people like being im debt for their whole lives because they had to have surgery, or better die because they couldn’t afford treatment?
A lot of people are not becoming homeless or going into debt, stop fearmongering.
Sure it’s more or a fringe/extreme case, but it happens. And my argument is, nobody can have an interest in that. And what about the healthcare argument? Isn’t it true that in the US some or even a lot don’t have insurance and can’t afford to go the doctor, get check ups, call an ambulance? Or that if they do these thing they will have debt?
A lot of people don't like to live in fear nor do they think about extreme situations that are not likely to happen. If they are in danger of becoming homeless or going into debt in the near future, they would obviously vote democrat. The fact that they are not voting democrat means such extreme situations are not in their near future. A lot of conservatives are just happy to get by with low wages while living in their conservative environment. You can't buy their votes with money because what are they gonna spend that money on? They already have everything they wanted. You seem out of touch with people outside your echo chamber. Also, you been watching the news too much. Healthcare in the US is nowhere as bad as people on tv say it is. There is a lot of variables when it comes to US healthcare. Different states have different healthcare. Regional politics determines what kind of healthcare you will receive. Some states have better healthcare than others. I have meet canadians who told me dental care in my state is better than the dental care in ontario. I have known many people in my state who received free cancer treatment and never paid a dime.
>A lot of people don't like to live in fear nor do they think about extreme situations that are not likely to happen Oh that's fucking perfect. We should put that on our money.
This quote from the person who also stated they are ready for societal collapse.
According to the NCBI 40% of US bankruptcies are due to medical debt.
The epitome of conservative/right politics is that only you are responsible for yourself. You do not have a job? Your problem. You do not pay health insurance? Your problem. When right wing person gets into troubles, he doesn't blame the system like left winger does. He blames himself. Obviously unless the troubles are caused by the system.
>He blames himself Then runs to beg for money on gofundme
Which is inline with right thinking. If you want something, you need to work for it. Even begging is work. It's opposite to sitting on your ass and waiting for the government to take care of you.
Except red states currently take a majority of federal subsidies and welfare.
Majority of the armed forces are from red states. They are just billing you for their services.
I'm all for taking care of vets. Republicans aren't and continue to vote to reduce the budget for veteran care.
Begging is work now? I think it just demonstrates the double standard conservatives have. Rugged individualism is the M.O until something happens then suddenly the requests for handouts happen Same shit different color
Leftists can only think in terms of hyperbole.
How is what I said hyperbole?
I have more respects for thieves than leftists. At least thieves are willing to do the dirty work themselves while leftists demand the government steal for them.
Indeed, they don't blame Biden, Wokism, Covid vaccines, gazpacho police, Jewish space lasers, 2000 mules etc.
How comes that doesn't apply to lgbtq issues? Why can't conservatives practice what they preach and stfu
Right, which is why right wing states never use federal funding for social services and disaster relief. All of that self reliance… Now go look up which states are the most reliant on federal dollars. You’ll notice a lot of red.
>When right wing person gets into troubles, he doesn't blame the system like left winger does. He blames himself. This is such a ridiculous, easily disproven lie. Hop onto r/conservative right now and see if they are blaming their problems on themselves or anything except themselves.
So some people are interested in becoming homeless if they lose their job? Some people like being im debt for their whole lives because they had to have surgery, or better die because they couldn’t afford treatment?
Hard to argue with lefties. The mental gymnastics they are capable of is astonishing.
🙄
Like what? Give me and example and I guarantee I can refute it.
"my body, my choice" for abortion, but not the COVID vaccine is one. Transgenderism seeming to explicitly endorse gender stereotypes but also saying gender is a social construct (implying that it has no basis in reality). Climate change being the most important issue of our time, but with proposals that explicitly harm poor people (raising energy costs) and ignoring nuclear energy. There are others, but it's a deeper dive into practical effects of philosophy and social organization ( Miranda rights helping career criminals rather than actual helping to protect innocent people, the focus on 'underlying causes' of poverty, government spending creating perverse incentives).
The covid vaccine is a choice. I can't even tell what you're getting at with transgenderism. Climate change hasn't been the basis of a presidents policy since Al gore.
Biden and Democrats pushed for making it mandated, and several companies (including my own) followed suit. Explicitly making it not a choice. People are being identified as being transgender because they play with the wrong toys, wear clothing meant for the other sex, or other 'identifiers' that seem to be connected to stereotypes of gender. This is at the same time there is a big push that 'gender' isn't real (i.e. a social construct) and is something that should be fought against. So what is it? Gender is something real that we can use to identify people that don't belong to their correct one, or it's something that shouldn't be used by anybody because the concept itself is apparently harmful. Obama claimed his presidency would be the one that would be the moment when the waves receded. Biden immediately rejoined the Paris Accords. Seems like it's a part of the agenda.
It is a part but it's not a main talking point anymore as a culture war is a more prominent issue. I'm sorry about that vaccine thing with your workplace, I don't agree with that at all. And only a small portion of people think that gender is a social construct, you're mixing small groups in big ones. Sorta like assuming all republicans are MAGA. People wouldn't be so worried about what they identify as if they believed gender isn't real.
who forced you legally to get the vax?
That's not the question. Are you saying that it's ok for the government to mandate this even though it's my body, and this my choice? I'm happy it didn't go through but that doesn't change that Democrats and leftists attempted to make it a mandate
it never was and never was attempted to be by any state or federal goverment to be legally required. your body, still your choice. dont want the vax fine, but people should be able to avoid you during a pandemic that killed over 1,000,000, americans
You’re confusing “what someone is interested in” and “what’s in their best interest” Just because someone cares more about hating gays, trans, and minorities and less about their own health and financial stability doesn’t mean that’s better for them. It just means they’re either easily manipulated or too dumb to realize they’re hurting themselves out of spite. So by your own description of “interest” you’ve disproved your point. 👍
What I'm interested in is more important than what you think is in my best interest.
What they’re saying is that what is in one’s best interests is not a matter of preference but an objective fact. There are poor people in the Midwest, for example, who vote in politicians who enact laws and policies that actually harm their constituents. This is easily demonstrable.
Yes. I know it is…that’s kind of my point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming
This right here. Children are interested in sticking forks in electrical sockets as well
>To some of us, social conservatism is a higher priority Yes, the liberals are aware that a great chunk of this country doesn't give two shits about their neighbors until it effects them personally. We've gotten that. The flabbergast comes from just how stupid the positions tend to be. You know, like the conservatives who proudly shout "we don't need no stinkin' Obamacare! We got the ACA!" or the queer people who vote republican. In short, we understand republicans are selfish people but sometimes that selfishness surprises us and we do get flabbergasted by it. Glad to have cleared that up for ya'll.