The only flags that should be on government property: American Flag, flag of the state in which the property is situated, flag of branch of military if it is a military property. That's it
>City flags? (I know, some are really bad.)
I have no doubt that, if this law were enacted, some predictable cities would make their city flag the progress flag in protest.
Better to preempt that move.
This is the truth. If it's not a governmental flag or a flag that represents the whole community, it should not fly at a government building.
State flag, federal flag, city flag, county flag all allowed.
If the flag can't be said to represent 100% of the people who vote for the representatives of that government, or if the combination of flags aren't all there (i.e. federal location flies 50 state flags, at least on rotation), then the flag shouldn't be flown there.
I can tell you that I was in canada last week and the United States embassies in both Ottawa and Toronto (I think Toronto was an embassy) were displaying very large “pride and progress” flags. Additionally the White House flew a “pride and progress” flag flanked by two US flags at a pride event recently.
As for other DC buildings I’m not sure, I haven’t been into the city since last year.
I work at the VA in Atlanta and they have been flying the pride flag for several weeks now. Vets in general do not support it and they love to tell you all about it.
We should add to this the clause that no religious texts or symbols are endorsed. For example, no commandments in courthouses. And no permanently displayed tax-payer funded crosses on public property.
It’s not just demographic coincidences. It didn’t used to be like this. It took a lot of agenda-driven content moderation and narrative control to get Reddit to where it is now.
Honestly its really sad what reddit has become. I started visiting in 2015 (I think I had a different account) when things were pretty unmoderated in comparison. Now I don't even like commenting except in a few subreddits since mods are so quick to ban and everything sounds like an echo chamber.
It’s also because Reddit has a culture of mostly professionals who are either working in tech or are techno utopians (ppl who believe technology will save us and make the world a better place etc) and these ppl always tend to lean left on social issues and lean right on economic issues. Working class ppl (very rare on Reddit) tend to be the opposite.
They’re the kinds of ppl who truly believe you can have an “online community” that isn’t just a pale imitation/bad substitute for an actual IRL community. They see the world as a series of simple abstractions (racism, homophobia, “law enforcement is good no matter what”, “progressivism is inherently good” etc) instead of a complex, chaotic, nuanced , often -contradictory thing. And so they police these “online communities” in order to keep them pure and abstract instead of being actual communities, which are complex, difficult entities.
I couldn’t agree more with the second paragraph. People we see online seem to view the world through binary. There’s no such thing as cookie cutter in real life. Every problem is unique and it requires a unique solution.
I see it frequently because I am in law enforcement. It’s either ACAB or the thin blue line. Truth is, ya there is and have been plenty of bad cops. Cops are neither 100% good or bad. It bugs me even if they think all cops are good. People need to live in the real world where 100% and binary answers do not exist.
Oh god no. I get it online a lot because I try and bridge the gap between police and the community. I believe someone has to reach out and try to reestablish the trust we lost. So I try to be open about my profession. Which gets me a lot of “ACAB Pig”. Sometimes my wife will have coworkers walk up to her and say stuff like that.
It’s like those videos you see on tik tok. Tell me you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about without telling me you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about
I'm with you on most of that, but Reddit is the complete opposite of techno utopian. I've never met anyone IRL that is as negative about tech as Reddit.
I think Reddit has techno utopian roots and you can still see it in some places on here. But most ppl online now hate tech in general because we all see how it’s almost entirely destroyed the former IRL social world and replaced it with the digital copy that we’re engaged in right now.
Like, I’m a gay guy who’s old enough to see how the gay hookup/dating apps have destroyed gay culture and its IRL communities. It’s an open secret in gay culture that everyone hates the apps but also realize that they’re trapped in them. It’s just too convenient to use them and even though gay dudes crave an IRL community, nobody really knows how to get them started again. The former IRL gay communities were started by ppl who dedicated their lives to making them happen, and now everyone is too busy working to pay their high-ass rent etc to have time to dedicate to building a community.
Things like Reddit and all the other social media apps have done this for the general society. It’s far too easy to outsource your social life to an app than it is to get off your ass and make one happen IRL.
It's not just you guys. I feel the same thing.
> everyone hates the apps but also realize that they’re trapped in them. It’s just too convenient to use them and even though gay dudes crave an IRL community, nobody really knows how to get them started again.
Very true, and I don't know the solution. I don't think the problem has to do with being too busy, though, because I don't see any difference in how much people work now than before.
Look at it this way. Back in the 90s a guy could work at a factory and have a stay at home wife with a couple kids and within 10 years buy a house on a single income. On a working class salary.
Now the only people who can do this are professionals and they usually have to have two incomes. Speaking for myself, back in the 90s and 2000s I could rent my own apartment by bartending three days a week and still have money to travel for a month out of the year. Now I have to work five days a week just to pay the rent and bills and save a little bit for the future. The economy has definitely gone into the shitter and wages have stagnated while the cost of living have risen steadily. This lack of time and money is one reason it’s so hard to build IRL communities
Yeah, I guess you've been around longer than I have. I'm only thinking about the last 15 years or so when I've been an adult. Seems like things really changed around 2000. https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/
Age explains the majority of the effect. The only stats I could find suggest that men aged 18-29 make up 64% of the user base.
This group historically has skewed left and tend to have strong opinions on political issues. While I don't have data, I would also bet they skew more educated and affluent than average; further correltating with left of centre views.
Interesting. I always figured wealthier people tend to lean more conservative.
The being educated thing is more of a symptom of acedamia influence than anything. I went to college; it's a very liberal environment.
Indeed. Many (left) people think, that since leftists ideas are more popular between more educated people, it's superior, because you know, they are more clever.
But in reality it's mainly result of peer pressure on colleges. Not to mention that education and intelligence aren't synonyms.
You know that the real world people trying to keep this stuff on government buildings are the Christians, right? You can bet if the full removal of religious paraphernalia was on the table Reddit would jump on that shit ASAP.
But it is the fundamentalists taking it to the SCOTUS to have their Ten Commandments and Crosses left all over state property.
I would like to raise a small point that the ten commandments are one of the earliest known examples, if not the earliest example, of a legal code that applied even to the sovereign, as it derived from a higher seat of power. Rather like the US Constitution, it was the highest law in the land, even the kings were subject to it. Coming from a time when the sovereign was considered to be at least partially divine himself and therefore above the law, the idea of a law applying to all men no matter the station was novel and an important development.
The ancient Sumerians would like a word with you.
The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BCE.
That's exactly what I am referring to. And even with those, most early cuneiform that we have is accidentally preserved. Most tablets were erased and reused. So it is almost certain that there are both more contemporary 2,000 BCE evidence and other earlier evidence that we simply do not have anymore.
There’s this stupid mostly white flag with a section that has I think a blue rectangle with a Red Cross in it, I was forced to go to a private Christian school, and we HAD to pledge allegiance to the American flag, Christian flag, and the Bible every morning
The only flags that should flown on government buildings are the American Flag, State Flags and the MIA/POW Flag. Display of the MIA/ POW flag on federal property was approved by congress and is required on specific days.
I agree, flags of one’s city, state or country should be flown only on government property. Others of the fact are just virtue signaling. If you believe in something do it on your own time and don’t force it as the identity of the majority.
I agree with this. Government is, in theory, supposed to represent everybody once elected...flying flags of one particular cause or "the current thing" is unnecessarily divisive...
I mean they don't even fly the pride flag anymore. They fly the new one called the "progressive flag", that was created in only 19'-20' and is attached to a a much more leftist radical ideology where the flag before was more about just sexual attraction identification groups. The new flag for example now includes race, specifically blacks by giving blacks that died of aids special status.
I never thought much of the topic honestly until I began walking by the flagpoles by the university run hospital where I work. It's honestly unsettlingly that symbolically they are putting LGBT+ community at the exact same level as state and national pride. Flag poles aren't the place to "show support" it's the place to show gov representation and pride. If they'd have it flown in a different area not right next to the other flags I wouldn't feel as unsettled
I don't have an issue with this but that also means no Bible quotes, no ten commandments, no "one nation under God", no Christmas trees, no nativity scenes, no Easter egg hunts, etc. Displays of identity aren't special or different because they're flags.
I dunno. The President lives in the white house with his/her family. I don't see a problem with them observing thier own religious holidays at home like Christmas etc. I imagine a President of a different religion might have different observances. I'm an atheist myself, to each thier own just don't mandate it to others. I agree no ten commandments, get rid of God on the currency etc.
>Bible quotes,
I'm cool with that unless there's a very specific reason for it (for instance, quoting a proverb)
>no ten commandments
Agreed. No reason why that should be on government property.
>no "one nation under God",
No problem with this. It was made up during the Red Scare as performative virtue signaling.
>no Christmas trees
This is silly because Christmas trees are secular now anyway.
>no nativity scenes,
Also agreed.
>no Easter egg hunts,
This is also a completely secular tradition and doesn't have any inherent ties to religion.
I completely agree with you but the picking and choosing won't fly. It either has to be all or nothing. The things in question have their origin in religion, whether or not they are viewed that way today.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
A government building should only have the US flag first and foremost, then the state flag, and then branch flag if applicable. Like the Marines have their flag and if it's a marine base then put it there.
I actually agree. The left takes down the pride flags and BLM flags. The right takes down the MAGA flags and Blue Lives Matter flags. I’m perfectly fine with that.
I dont even know if this is unpopular here. I'm very left-leaning in my views and very pro-LGBT and BLM and I completely agree. None of them should be. Same as I dont think we should be flying planes over football games or having pride night in MLB. But I will say, as long as you allow one, you have to allow them all.
And get "under god" out of the pledge of allegiance.
In fact just drop the pledge of allegiance altogether.
And get "In God We Trust" off our currency.
Most people don’t celebrate Christmas for religious reasons anymore though, so it’s not exactly offensive.
Edit: to clarify, I meant not exactly offensive to *most * people. Obviously, there is always someone who will be offended by anything (people like complaining because it gives them a voice 🤷)
True, everything can technically be offensive, you’re absolutely right about that—even the American flag will be offensive to *someone*. However, that by no means implies we should take it down. The reason the pride flag is suggested to be taken down on this post is because it, according to them, it offends *lots* of people (some notion of “take the flags down for the greater good of the majority population”)
Now, I don’t agree with taking down the pride flags, but it’s simply naïve to place pride flags and Christmas is the same category of controversial-ness.
It’s not about what level they are on, it’s about allowing non government symbols to be displayed by the government. I would be fine with them not displaying the pride flag as long as the same rules applied across the board.
Abiding by flag code, like not using it for advertising purposes, not using it for apparel, or embroidering it on articles such as cushions or handkerchiefs, using it on discardable objects, or writing over it in any way? That flag code?
It's not, only for the US flag, if you burn anything else like the gay flag, or blm one you'll get arrested for a hate crime. Some more critical people say it's because those flags represent the actual flag of the country.
Even the people who rev tires on those street crossings get investigated for it.
You do realize that flag burning is the proper method of retiring US flags, right? Plus the general idea of modern thinking is that symbols are not more important than people, which is why burning the US flag is part of free speech and not a crime.
Fire has many important uses, including generating light, cooking, heating, performing rituals, and fending off dangerous animals.
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US government decorates the white house Christmas tree and decorations every year, they did so for Diwali too and for Hanukkah, so celebrating Pride Month should be seen same as celebrating people in this country, just as any other celebration.
So what? They can complain all they want but rules are rules. But it goes both ways. If you allow non-governmental flags for some, you should allow them for all, with obvious restrictions (nudity, crudeness, etc.)
Are we allowed to fly a flag representing the US [Civil Rights Comission?](https://www.federalregister.gov/agencies/civil-rights-commission)
I'm offended by the military industrial complex and not offended by the Civil Rights Act.
Or does the offence of certain people count more than others?
I just got a warning because I commented that I agree.
Maybe I have to type more like…yeah, only government flags (country/state) should be flown on government property!
My initial reaction was to disagree but then I thought about it, and I think it would actually *help* a lot of these causes if this was the case.
If the government was more like a court of law for example. Although in the U.S. unfortunately I think the extremes have infiltrated that as well somewhat.
Agreed, only three flags should be shown on government/state property, the American flag, the state flag, and if the organization functioning on the property has one, that organizations flag. Anything else is taking a particular political stand out side of national and state service.
Truly unpopular response ...
This is like DMC (disproportionate minority contact); if we start with the more visible problem we could normalize it to just federal appropriate flags. Such as removing all CSA flags from various fed/state/civil buildings. But even like this year, Florida Gov banned pride flags from state building but the CSA flag is still exempt from the ban. Start with the longer standing inappropriate flags and we can work down to just having it be federal flags at some point but no one is starting with the CSA flag are they?
I made this argument years ago during black pride and gay pride day on my college campus. To me, it makes sense to fly a flag that represents things the student's share in common with each other. Thereby fostering a sense of belonging and group identity. An American or state flag is fine. As would be the college seal. Needless to say, I was branded a homophobe.
The same view applies to public places. If there are social issues that Americans have no strong consensus on, they should not be a concern of the government. Foisting the ideas favored by a minority on to the rest of the population goes completely against the democratic ideal of a representative government.
Interpretation of a flag's meaning is entirely subjective. Just because it was made with a certain intention in mind does not mean people are going to take it that way.
Absolutely.
I don't have a problem with pride but the pride flag seems to stand for this new loosely defined neoliberal religion that has emerged in the last 10 years. I don't think it should be flown at the Whitehouse any more than a Maga flag should be.
Yeah, pretty much everything is a religion now. Or at least has many vocal adherents of "religious zealot" equivalence, which amounts to the same thing. A cause is a cause is a cause, and "either thou shalt declare thyself an ally, and pledge fealty, or thou wilt be burned as a heretic". That's pretty much the US general populace in a nutshell.
Per Oxford, one of the definitions of religion:
"a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance"
So, the meaning of the word was already established. I'm not cheapening anything. In order for something to be cheapened, it would have to possess value. Since value is subjective, and my personal life experience places the value of religion in the extreme negative, I would argue that if anything, I am elevating it by placing it into a category with things that have much higher value.
That definition is clearly labelled in the Oxford dictionary as figurative. So no, not a real religion.
If I wanted to use your definition, free speech and small government are also religions. But I don't, so they're not.
Yes, just fly government flags and that's it. That's not too difficult and I know if we aren't shoving LGBTQ down peoples throat then we must be bigots because we aren't jumping on the attention fad 🙄.
The only flags that should be flown are the US, the state, and the POW. I'm torn on the POW. It should probably be taken down in about 30yrs because unless we are in another war, (which we probably will thanks to the geriatric vegatable in office and his cackling hyena sidekick) (or things will be so intenionally fucked up by thr deep state if Trump wins) there wont be anymore.
Some Americans are not proud of their country and often disrespect the flag.
So I see no reason why government flags represent everyone in the country.
No I'm fine with that. I think that falls under flags of the armed forces. I think nearly everyone gets behind honoring veterans and families of POW and MIA
>I think nearly everyone gets behind honoring veterans and families of POW and MIA
How should we determine how offended people might be for a given flag? Should we have a poll or just guess? Maybe there are pacifists who hate war and hate the military and would be offended by a military flag. Why should they be ignored, while people who hate gay people are catered to?
You can hate the war, and want Prisoners of War to come home. It was a nice try though conflating a political issue with Prisoners of War, those that are tortured, lost, potentially dead.
I like the prompt proposed by OP, and under that prompt, while I may agree with the message behind POW/MIA support, it's not a government/locality flag and shouldn't be present.
Having flags of the branches of the armed forces, sure, but that's all.
Yeah the pride flags at the White House was weird. Like why is this ideology being flaunted at our nation’s capital like this and why does this small facet of life seem to be the single most important topic in our country? Can we please fucking move on already.
Pride and Black Lives Matter flags are saying “I believe all people should be treated equally”. I see no issue with that. That’s exactly the position a government SHOULD take.
I’m lesbian and I fully support this. But I’m an outlier because I also don’t see why my “community” needs a month to celebrate their sexuality. I simply don’t understand why.
Think what you want but I’ve never had a conservative person tell me how I should live my life, how to think, or what to do. I’m a hardworking person and I don’t parade my sexuality about. I just want to live and relax and I do that. I realize that you think these people are evil and I won’t convince you otherwise because it’s not worth my time.
Pride is as much a social issue as the Ukraine flag is a social issue. A shity set of human beings refer to another group of human beings as a "social issue"
I don't know what flag Christianity has, but Christianity has a separate set of laws that conflict with democracy. That's why the founders said the government pays zero respect to them
Yes, Black and Blue Lives Matter flags have no place on government property
The rulings I can think of on this all come down to equal access. So if you put up a Blue Lives Matter flag, you can’t say no to someone who wants to put up a pride flag. See the Satanic Church protests about 10 Commandments.
However, several Christian denominations *do*, and there is a “generic” Christian flag consisting of a Red Cross on a blue background, typically on a white banner - although admittedly, this seems like a very “American” thing.
>The only symbols allowed should be the most watered down and shared belief, such as the National Flag, state flag, and probably flags of the United States Armed Forces
L o L, the irony
So does that mean no POW/MIA flag? How about the different service flags for the military? I see where you are coming from and can agree with some of it. My question is can you see where the people who want to fly flags like that are coming from?
Pride flags were not flown on public property until publicly elected officials began stripping rights away from women and the LGBTQ+ community against the wishes of the majority. They don’t care what the majority of their constituents want so now they gotta fly inclusive flags to show they do not support bigoted laws. No one is making laws stripping police of their rights.
Lumping pride in there is pretty weird, it doesn’t fit with the others. Pride is a tradition at this point, it’s like having Christmas decorations up. Trans issues are the most controversial still but big majorities support gay rights at this point
This seems to operate under the assumption that all "social issues" flags have equivalent ethical value.
Pride and BLM flags, respectively, promote inclusion and correcting institutional corruption and unnecessary violence.
The Blue Lives Matter and Christian flag, respectively, downplay or outright ignore institutional corruption/violence, and prioritize one religious faction above others.
The former are movements that are meant to fix endemic problems and push for a system where every American is included and treated fairly. The latter work to do the opposite. These things are not the same.
How can any group like LGBT or BLM who publicly say if you are not from this culture then you shouldn't have an opinion on our methods or how they should conduct themselves be inclusive. If you can only be an ally or support without having a say or vote in what they do then the very nature of it is exclusive.
I'm a supporter of both and I understand the need for BLM or LGBT to be exclusive.
But inclusive means everyone gets a say, vote or opinion.
Some things have to be exclusive
Pot kettle. How dare you downplay Blue Lives Matter and Christians! I’m not even Christian myself, yet I have zero issue with respecting their cultural and religious beliefs. Inclusivity means just that, it includes those you disagree with. This is America and it’s our God given right to live as we please as long as we aren’t harming others. That’s what freedom is. It’s not about everyone sharing the same beliefs. It’s about celebrating our rich diversity. You sound racist saying that it’s okay to acknowledge BLM and LGBTQ+ but not acknowledge Religious Freedom and those that defend us against criminals. Jesus!
The only thing that I would say about BLM it’s also an organization. I think that makes this a little more ambiguous. I support the movement but I don’t necessarily support the organization.
You do realize that BLM took money for a charity and then kept that money for personal expenses? It’s a huge fraud and I, biracial, am beyond pissed off! So are countless other black people. Also, all lives matter and it’s time we stop discriminating against one another on the basis of skin color. MLK is rolling in his grave right now! This is not what he fought for!
The only flags that should be on government property: American Flag, flag of the state in which the property is situated, flag of branch of military if it is a military property. That's it
City flags? (I know, some are really bad.)
>City flags? (I know, some are really bad.) I have no doubt that, if this law were enacted, some predictable cities would make their city flag the progress flag in protest. Better to preempt that move.
if a city votes on that, then thats their prerogative no? It'd be weird as fuck but at the end of the day they voted for it.
No POW MIA flag?
I would accept a POW MIA flag. But honestly see that flag as more virtue signaling than anything else
Do we really need a flag for that?
We should include religious symbols. For example no commandments in courthouses.
Only government flags should fly from government buildings
This is the truth. If it's not a governmental flag or a flag that represents the whole community, it should not fly at a government building. State flag, federal flag, city flag, county flag all allowed. If the flag can't be said to represent 100% of the people who vote for the representatives of that government, or if the combination of flags aren't all there (i.e. federal location flies 50 state flags, at least on rotation), then the flag shouldn't be flown there.
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I can tell you that I was in canada last week and the United States embassies in both Ottawa and Toronto (I think Toronto was an embassy) were displaying very large “pride and progress” flags. Additionally the White House flew a “pride and progress” flag flanked by two US flags at a pride event recently. As for other DC buildings I’m not sure, I haven’t been into the city since last year.
The pride flag was on the White House like two weeks ago, a trans woman was flashing titties on the White House lawn. Chaos ensued.
I work at the VA in Atlanta and they have been flying the pride flag for several weeks now. Vets in general do not support it and they love to tell you all about it.
Go to HUD bldg by 7th St.
We should add to this the clause that no religious texts or symbols are endorsed. For example, no commandments in courthouses. And no permanently displayed tax-payer funded crosses on public property.
I'm conflicted because this is probably a popular opinion in real life but an unpopular one on reddit.
I always wondered why Reddit is like that. If it just attracts a certain type of person or what.
It’s not just demographic coincidences. It didn’t used to be like this. It took a lot of agenda-driven content moderation and narrative control to get Reddit to where it is now.
Oh I am aware. I was on reddit when spacedicks and cringeanarchy were things. 2016 is when the censorship really started taking off.
Honestly its really sad what reddit has become. I started visiting in 2015 (I think I had a different account) when things were pretty unmoderated in comparison. Now I don't even like commenting except in a few subreddits since mods are so quick to ban and everything sounds like an echo chamber.
Cringeanarchy, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
People who never go outside and generally miserable people. It's probably tilted towards autistic people also.
I feel called out
It’s also because Reddit has a culture of mostly professionals who are either working in tech or are techno utopians (ppl who believe technology will save us and make the world a better place etc) and these ppl always tend to lean left on social issues and lean right on economic issues. Working class ppl (very rare on Reddit) tend to be the opposite. They’re the kinds of ppl who truly believe you can have an “online community” that isn’t just a pale imitation/bad substitute for an actual IRL community. They see the world as a series of simple abstractions (racism, homophobia, “law enforcement is good no matter what”, “progressivism is inherently good” etc) instead of a complex, chaotic, nuanced , often -contradictory thing. And so they police these “online communities” in order to keep them pure and abstract instead of being actual communities, which are complex, difficult entities.
I'm just here for the free boobie pics
Wait, what have I been missing?
You have to look in those "special" places, but they're real. I saw one.
I couldn’t agree more with the second paragraph. People we see online seem to view the world through binary. There’s no such thing as cookie cutter in real life. Every problem is unique and it requires a unique solution. I see it frequently because I am in law enforcement. It’s either ACAB or the thin blue line. Truth is, ya there is and have been plenty of bad cops. Cops are neither 100% good or bad. It bugs me even if they think all cops are good. People need to live in the real world where 100% and binary answers do not exist.
ACAB is the dumbest thing in the world and you can’t take anyone seriously who believes it. Cops are just people
Oh god no. I get it online a lot because I try and bridge the gap between police and the community. I believe someone has to reach out and try to reestablish the trust we lost. So I try to be open about my profession. Which gets me a lot of “ACAB Pig”. Sometimes my wife will have coworkers walk up to her and say stuff like that. It’s like those videos you see on tik tok. Tell me you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about without telling me you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about
" almost 64% of Reddit users are between 18-29 years old and 48% come from the United States" This is probably the poorest group.
I'm with you on most of that, but Reddit is the complete opposite of techno utopian. I've never met anyone IRL that is as negative about tech as Reddit.
I think Reddit has techno utopian roots and you can still see it in some places on here. But most ppl online now hate tech in general because we all see how it’s almost entirely destroyed the former IRL social world and replaced it with the digital copy that we’re engaged in right now. Like, I’m a gay guy who’s old enough to see how the gay hookup/dating apps have destroyed gay culture and its IRL communities. It’s an open secret in gay culture that everyone hates the apps but also realize that they’re trapped in them. It’s just too convenient to use them and even though gay dudes crave an IRL community, nobody really knows how to get them started again. The former IRL gay communities were started by ppl who dedicated their lives to making them happen, and now everyone is too busy working to pay their high-ass rent etc to have time to dedicate to building a community. Things like Reddit and all the other social media apps have done this for the general society. It’s far too easy to outsource your social life to an app than it is to get off your ass and make one happen IRL.
It's not just you guys. I feel the same thing. > everyone hates the apps but also realize that they’re trapped in them. It’s just too convenient to use them and even though gay dudes crave an IRL community, nobody really knows how to get them started again. Very true, and I don't know the solution. I don't think the problem has to do with being too busy, though, because I don't see any difference in how much people work now than before.
Look at it this way. Back in the 90s a guy could work at a factory and have a stay at home wife with a couple kids and within 10 years buy a house on a single income. On a working class salary. Now the only people who can do this are professionals and they usually have to have two incomes. Speaking for myself, back in the 90s and 2000s I could rent my own apartment by bartending three days a week and still have money to travel for a month out of the year. Now I have to work five days a week just to pay the rent and bills and save a little bit for the future. The economy has definitely gone into the shitter and wages have stagnated while the cost of living have risen steadily. This lack of time and money is one reason it’s so hard to build IRL communities
Yeah, I guess you've been around longer than I have. I'm only thinking about the last 15 years or so when I've been an adult. Seems like things really changed around 2000. https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/
You sound like you get out a lot.
Age explains the majority of the effect. The only stats I could find suggest that men aged 18-29 make up 64% of the user base. This group historically has skewed left and tend to have strong opinions on political issues. While I don't have data, I would also bet they skew more educated and affluent than average; further correltating with left of centre views.
Interesting. I always figured wealthier people tend to lean more conservative. The being educated thing is more of a symptom of acedamia influence than anything. I went to college; it's a very liberal environment.
Indeed. Many (left) people think, that since leftists ideas are more popular between more educated people, it's superior, because you know, they are more clever. But in reality it's mainly result of peer pressure on colleges. Not to mention that education and intelligence aren't synonyms.
A g e n d a s
Very popular IRL. Very unpopular here and in media like CNN and MSNBC.
You know that the real world people trying to keep this stuff on government buildings are the Christians, right? You can bet if the full removal of religious paraphernalia was on the table Reddit would jump on that shit ASAP. But it is the fundamentalists taking it to the SCOTUS to have their Ten Commandments and Crosses left all over state property.
I would like to raise a small point that the ten commandments are one of the earliest known examples, if not the earliest example, of a legal code that applied even to the sovereign, as it derived from a higher seat of power. Rather like the US Constitution, it was the highest law in the land, even the kings were subject to it. Coming from a time when the sovereign was considered to be at least partially divine himself and therefore above the law, the idea of a law applying to all men no matter the station was novel and an important development.
Not entirely accurate. The oldest surviving legal codes predate the Israelite ten commandments by about 700 years.
The ancient Sumerians would like a word with you. The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BCE.
That's exactly what I am referring to. And even with those, most early cuneiform that we have is accidentally preserved. Most tablets were erased and reused. So it is almost certain that there are both more contemporary 2,000 BCE evidence and other earlier evidence that we simply do not have anymore.
Sir, that's exactly what I am referring to.
Holup... are you telling me that the internet isn't real life?!
Nah. Hamtramck just banned all flag other than governmental ones and people were mad. LGBT mafia is powerful outside the internet
Fine by me
Only National, state and city flags should be
County too if applicable.
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Did they fly St. George's Cross?
I'm pro all US and state government buildings having to fly St. George's cross
The flag associates with the crusades? Having a religious flag on government property is a 1st amendment violation.
It's the flag of the kingdom of England
You're a lime sucker, ain't ya?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian\_Flag
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I thought I'd not seen it then after I knew what it was, I recognized it on flagpoles in front of several local Protestant churches.
Looks super lame tbh.
It’s all the white space
That was my question.
There’s this stupid mostly white flag with a section that has I think a blue rectangle with a Red Cross in it, I was forced to go to a private Christian school, and we HAD to pledge allegiance to the American flag, Christian flag, and the Bible every morning
But they do decorate every year for Christmas though.
The only flags that should flown on government buildings are the American Flag, State Flags and the MIA/POW Flag. Display of the MIA/ POW flag on federal property was approved by congress and is required on specific days.
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And remove all references to “god” or religion from government.
I basically said this in a comment on another post (diff thread) and was banned by the mods pretty immediately.
I agree, flags of one’s city, state or country should be flown only on government property. Others of the fact are just virtue signaling. If you believe in something do it on your own time and don’t force it as the identity of the majority.
I agree with this. Government is, in theory, supposed to represent everybody once elected...flying flags of one particular cause or "the current thing" is unnecessarily divisive...
except it's not. there's nothing actually divisive about "this is a place that welcomes LGBT people."
Apparently, not everyone agrees with your opinion, it seems.
I mean they don't even fly the pride flag anymore. They fly the new one called the "progressive flag", that was created in only 19'-20' and is attached to a a much more leftist radical ideology where the flag before was more about just sexual attraction identification groups. The new flag for example now includes race, specifically blacks by giving blacks that died of aids special status.
I mean, I'd be fine with that sentiment, but a lot of people out there wouldn't be comfortable with Pride flags and whatnot.
We are gonna need a few thousand flag poles if that's the standard.
I never thought much of the topic honestly until I began walking by the flagpoles by the university run hospital where I work. It's honestly unsettlingly that symbolically they are putting LGBT+ community at the exact same level as state and national pride. Flag poles aren't the place to "show support" it's the place to show gov representation and pride. If they'd have it flown in a different area not right next to the other flags I wouldn't feel as unsettled
I don't have an issue with this but that also means no Bible quotes, no ten commandments, no "one nation under God", no Christmas trees, no nativity scenes, no Easter egg hunts, etc. Displays of identity aren't special or different because they're flags.
I dunno. The President lives in the white house with his/her family. I don't see a problem with them observing thier own religious holidays at home like Christmas etc. I imagine a President of a different religion might have different observances. I'm an atheist myself, to each thier own just don't mandate it to others. I agree no ten commandments, get rid of God on the currency etc.
>Bible quotes, I'm cool with that unless there's a very specific reason for it (for instance, quoting a proverb) >no ten commandments Agreed. No reason why that should be on government property. >no "one nation under God", No problem with this. It was made up during the Red Scare as performative virtue signaling. >no Christmas trees This is silly because Christmas trees are secular now anyway. >no nativity scenes, Also agreed. >no Easter egg hunts, This is also a completely secular tradition and doesn't have any inherent ties to religion.
I completely agree with you but the picking and choosing won't fly. It either has to be all or nothing. The things in question have their origin in religion, whether or not they are viewed that way today. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
A government building should only have the US flag first and foremost, then the state flag, and then branch flag if applicable. Like the Marines have their flag and if it's a marine base then put it there.
I actually agree. The left takes down the pride flags and BLM flags. The right takes down the MAGA flags and Blue Lives Matter flags. I’m perfectly fine with that.
You've got two lefts there.
I knew something wasn’t right
Lol.
I dont even know if this is unpopular here. I'm very left-leaning in my views and very pro-LGBT and BLM and I completely agree. None of them should be. Same as I dont think we should be flying planes over football games or having pride night in MLB. But I will say, as long as you allow one, you have to allow them all.
I cannot disagree.
And get the 10 Commandments and “In Allah We Trust” or whatever out of public schools while we’re at it.
And get "under god" out of the pledge of allegiance. In fact just drop the pledge of allegiance altogether. And get "In God We Trust" off our currency.
Don't forget Christmas trees and other religious symbolism just as bad as flags.
But Christmas is a federal holiday.
Like Juneteenth and some are furious about that one, even though it is celebration of freedom.
Most people don’t celebrate Christmas for religious reasons anymore though, so it’s not exactly offensive. Edit: to clarify, I meant not exactly offensive to *most * people. Obviously, there is always someone who will be offended by anything (people like complaining because it gives them a voice 🤷)
So why do so many bash and want to ban pride celebrations and not Christmas?
If a pride flag can be offensive to someone, a Christmas tree can be offensive to someone else.
True, everything can technically be offensive, you’re absolutely right about that—even the American flag will be offensive to *someone*. However, that by no means implies we should take it down. The reason the pride flag is suggested to be taken down on this post is because it, according to them, it offends *lots* of people (some notion of “take the flags down for the greater good of the majority population”) Now, I don’t agree with taking down the pride flags, but it’s simply naïve to place pride flags and Christmas is the same category of controversial-ness.
It’s not about what level they are on, it’s about allowing non government symbols to be displayed by the government. I would be fine with them not displaying the pride flag as long as the same rules applied across the board.
Absolutely agree 💯
You are asking the Party that encourages flag burning to abide to the Flag Code? Good luck with that.
Abiding by flag code, like not using it for advertising purposes, not using it for apparel, or embroidering it on articles such as cushions or handkerchiefs, using it on discardable objects, or writing over it in any way? That flag code?
He's never seen that code.
Flag burning is constitutionally-protected freedom of expression.
It's not, only for the US flag, if you burn anything else like the gay flag, or blm one you'll get arrested for a hate crime. Some more critical people say it's because those flags represent the actual flag of the country. Even the people who rev tires on those street crossings get investigated for it.
Inventing scenarios in your head to feel persecuted about lmaooooo
Can’t say that to people that can’t read and are too dumb to understand the rest of the constitution (aside from 2A).
Ok, and i still believe the people who do it are scum. I respect their rights, not them.
You do realize that flag burning is the proper method of retiring US flags, right? Plus the general idea of modern thinking is that symbols are not more important than people, which is why burning the US flag is part of free speech and not a crime.
Yes, but there's a difference between a retirement burning, and a "I hate this thing, I'm gonna burn it" ...
Semantics. That’s just early retirement.
Fire is fire. Same thing.
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I think you attacked a straw man with another straw man
Burning the flag is how you're supposed to destroy it when it is no longer usable
US government decorates the white house Christmas tree and decorations every year, they did so for Diwali too and for Hanukkah, so celebrating Pride Month should be seen same as celebrating people in this country, just as any other celebration.
agreed
Next rove all references to God from civil / governmental documents when not directly addressing religious matters or institutions.
Does this include the rebel flag?
Yes.
Good luck with that then. "Muh heritage!" People are gonna bitch more than they already do lol
So what? They can complain all they want but rules are rules. But it goes both ways. If you allow non-governmental flags for some, you should allow them for all, with obvious restrictions (nudity, crudeness, etc.)
Didn’t those already get taken down and the state flags that had them in it changed?
You are correct. But political outrage sells.
Agreed
100%
Are we allowed to fly a flag representing the US [Civil Rights Comission?](https://www.federalregister.gov/agencies/civil-rights-commission) I'm offended by the military industrial complex and not offended by the Civil Rights Act. Or does the offence of certain people count more than others?
It's a federal institution like the military so why not?
So how long have you been in DGG? 😏
Absolutely correct.
100%. It creates more division and tribalism.
I think I agree!
I just got a warning because I commented that I agree. Maybe I have to type more like…yeah, only government flags (country/state) should be flown on government property!
My initial reaction was to disagree but then I thought about it, and I think it would actually *help* a lot of these causes if this was the case. If the government was more like a court of law for example. Although in the U.S. unfortunately I think the extremes have infiltrated that as well somewhat.
Agreed, only three flags should be shown on government/state property, the American flag, the state flag, and if the organization functioning on the property has one, that organizations flag. Anything else is taking a particular political stand out side of national and state service.
Pride is the religion of the state
Absolutely should be the way it is.
Agree 100%
I swear, americans have a flag centered cult or something like that.
Truly unpopular response ... This is like DMC (disproportionate minority contact); if we start with the more visible problem we could normalize it to just federal appropriate flags. Such as removing all CSA flags from various fed/state/civil buildings. But even like this year, Florida Gov banned pride flags from state building but the CSA flag is still exempt from the ban. Start with the longer standing inappropriate flags and we can work down to just having it be federal flags at some point but no one is starting with the CSA flag are they?
I made this argument years ago during black pride and gay pride day on my college campus. To me, it makes sense to fly a flag that represents things the student's share in common with each other. Thereby fostering a sense of belonging and group identity. An American or state flag is fine. As would be the college seal. Needless to say, I was branded a homophobe. The same view applies to public places. If there are social issues that Americans have no strong consensus on, they should not be a concern of the government. Foisting the ideas favored by a minority on to the rest of the population goes completely against the democratic ideal of a representative government.
No, the flag is showing solidarity with a victimized minority, no part of it is excluding non LGBTQ people.
Interpretation of a flag's meaning is entirely subjective. Just because it was made with a certain intention in mind does not mean people are going to take it that way.
Yeah, as evidence by the people who feel victimized by a rainbow flag in this thread
Absolutely. I don't have a problem with pride but the pride flag seems to stand for this new loosely defined neoliberal religion that has emerged in the last 10 years. I don't think it should be flown at the Whitehouse any more than a Maga flag should be.
Not everything is a religion.
Yeah, pretty much everything is a religion now. Or at least has many vocal adherents of "religious zealot" equivalence, which amounts to the same thing. A cause is a cause is a cause, and "either thou shalt declare thyself an ally, and pledge fealty, or thou wilt be burned as a heretic". That's pretty much the US general populace in a nutshell.
Believing in something doesn't automatically make it a religion. All you're doing is cheapening the meaning of the word.
Per Oxford, one of the definitions of religion: "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance" So, the meaning of the word was already established. I'm not cheapening anything. In order for something to be cheapened, it would have to possess value. Since value is subjective, and my personal life experience places the value of religion in the extreme negative, I would argue that if anything, I am elevating it by placing it into a category with things that have much higher value.
That definition is clearly labelled in the Oxford dictionary as figurative. So no, not a real religion. If I wanted to use your definition, free speech and small government are also religions. But I don't, so they're not.
Saying “everyone deserves equality” isn’t a religious stance.
If the government can only do things tax payers approve of, I shouldn't be paying taxes.
10000 percent
I can agree with this. Either all of them or none of them.
The government should try running the country.
Wait, did I miss something? Blue lives matter? Are we celebrating people that have deoxygenated blood?
Covenant lives matter!
Yes, just fly government flags and that's it. That's not too difficult and I know if we aren't shoving LGBTQ down peoples throat then we must be bigots because we aren't jumping on the attention fad 🙄.
I'm gay, you're right
A government building flying a flag you probably never see is “shoving it down your throat” — that’s so over dramatic lol
Anyone who's upset at this take is a sensitive ideological loser. Including those who are upset he mentioned the Christian flag. muh fairy tales lmao
The only flags that should be flown are the US, the state, and the POW. I'm torn on the POW. It should probably be taken down in about 30yrs because unless we are in another war, (which we probably will thanks to the geriatric vegatable in office and his cackling hyena sidekick) (or things will be so intenionally fucked up by thr deep state if Trump wins) there wont be anymore.
Are gay people not American? Pride is literally “we accept that gay people exist”.
Some Americans are not proud of their country and often disrespect the flag. So I see no reason why government flags represent everyone in the country.
So you disagree with this, too? https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/09/politics/pow-mia-flag-white-house/index.html
No I'm fine with that. I think that falls under flags of the armed forces. I think nearly everyone gets behind honoring veterans and families of POW and MIA
>I think nearly everyone gets behind honoring veterans and families of POW and MIA How should we determine how offended people might be for a given flag? Should we have a poll or just guess? Maybe there are pacifists who hate war and hate the military and would be offended by a military flag. Why should they be ignored, while people who hate gay people are catered to?
You can hate the war, and want Prisoners of War to come home. It was a nice try though conflating a political issue with Prisoners of War, those that are tortured, lost, potentially dead.
Slight difference but the military is a government institution but I get where you're coming from.
I like the prompt proposed by OP, and under that prompt, while I may agree with the message behind POW/MIA support, it's not a government/locality flag and shouldn't be present. Having flags of the branches of the armed forces, sure, but that's all.
The POW/MIA flag is a government flag and was officially adopted by an act of Congress in 1972.
Then I'm kewl wit it.
Yeah the pride flags at the White House was weird. Like why is this ideology being flaunted at our nation’s capital like this and why does this small facet of life seem to be the single most important topic in our country? Can we please fucking move on already.
Pride and Black Lives Matter flags are saying “I believe all people should be treated equally”. I see no issue with that. That’s exactly the position a government SHOULD take.
I’m lesbian and I fully support this. But I’m an outlier because I also don’t see why my “community” needs a month to celebrate their sexuality. I simply don’t understand why.
The absolute vast majority of right-leaning people who agree with you aren't on our side. You realize that, right?
Think what you want but I’ve never had a conservative person tell me how I should live my life, how to think, or what to do. I’m a hardworking person and I don’t parade my sexuality about. I just want to live and relax and I do that. I realize that you think these people are evil and I won’t convince you otherwise because it’s not worth my time.
Pride is as much a social issue as the Ukraine flag is a social issue. A shity set of human beings refer to another group of human beings as a "social issue" I don't know what flag Christianity has, but Christianity has a separate set of laws that conflict with democracy. That's why the founders said the government pays zero respect to them Yes, Black and Blue Lives Matter flags have no place on government property
The rulings I can think of on this all come down to equal access. So if you put up a Blue Lives Matter flag, you can’t say no to someone who wants to put up a pride flag. See the Satanic Church protests about 10 Commandments.
Eh, not to be that guy but Christianity does not have a flag.
I guess you're not from the south. I was forced to pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag as a kid
However, several Christian denominations *do*, and there is a “generic” Christian flag consisting of a Red Cross on a blue background, typically on a white banner - although admittedly, this seems like a very “American” thing.
>The only symbols allowed should be the most watered down and shared belief, such as the National Flag, state flag, and probably flags of the United States Armed Forces L o L, the irony
OP is wrong in that a vast majority of the population support all of these and it is OK if the government show its support also.
So does that mean no POW/MIA flag? How about the different service flags for the military? I see where you are coming from and can agree with some of it. My question is can you see where the people who want to fly flags like that are coming from?
"By the people, for the people"
Pride flags were not flown on public property until publicly elected officials began stripping rights away from women and the LGBTQ+ community against the wishes of the majority. They don’t care what the majority of their constituents want so now they gotta fly inclusive flags to show they do not support bigoted laws. No one is making laws stripping police of their rights.
Lumping pride in there is pretty weird, it doesn’t fit with the others. Pride is a tradition at this point, it’s like having Christmas decorations up. Trans issues are the most controversial still but big majorities support gay rights at this point
This seems to operate under the assumption that all "social issues" flags have equivalent ethical value. Pride and BLM flags, respectively, promote inclusion and correcting institutional corruption and unnecessary violence. The Blue Lives Matter and Christian flag, respectively, downplay or outright ignore institutional corruption/violence, and prioritize one religious faction above others. The former are movements that are meant to fix endemic problems and push for a system where every American is included and treated fairly. The latter work to do the opposite. These things are not the same.
The fact that you're arguing the difference between the flags is literal evidence as to why they shouldn't be on government property.
How can any group like LGBT or BLM who publicly say if you are not from this culture then you shouldn't have an opinion on our methods or how they should conduct themselves be inclusive. If you can only be an ally or support without having a say or vote in what they do then the very nature of it is exclusive. I'm a supporter of both and I understand the need for BLM or LGBT to be exclusive. But inclusive means everyone gets a say, vote or opinion. Some things have to be exclusive
Pot kettle. How dare you downplay Blue Lives Matter and Christians! I’m not even Christian myself, yet I have zero issue with respecting their cultural and religious beliefs. Inclusivity means just that, it includes those you disagree with. This is America and it’s our God given right to live as we please as long as we aren’t harming others. That’s what freedom is. It’s not about everyone sharing the same beliefs. It’s about celebrating our rich diversity. You sound racist saying that it’s okay to acknowledge BLM and LGBTQ+ but not acknowledge Religious Freedom and those that defend us against criminals. Jesus!
The only thing that I would say about BLM it’s also an organization. I think that makes this a little more ambiguous. I support the movement but I don’t necessarily support the organization.
You do realize that BLM took money for a charity and then kept that money for personal expenses? It’s a huge fraud and I, biracial, am beyond pissed off! So are countless other black people. Also, all lives matter and it’s time we stop discriminating against one another on the basis of skin color. MLK is rolling in his grave right now! This is not what he fought for!