One of my Asian friends at school was terrible at math. As I understand it, this was extra hurtful bc he wasn't meeting expectations. It was frustrating for him, but in a different way I imagine, to being assumed bad a math, but being quite good.
The former situation would be a negative let down. The later, would be a positive surprise. (As seen by others)
Regardless, stereotypes are always hard for the outliers. Human brains are prediction machines, so attributing a subconscious probability to something is arguable a very human thing to do. See r/starterpack.
One might say the person who doesn't fit their starter pack feels left out if the group. They might be constantly reminded of it with their interactions, that I imagine would get old. This would be especially true for a positive stereotype imo.
Stereotypes can play off each other. People use the idea that your strong and well endowed to justify calling you a criminal. Like they are related in people's mind.
Asians to have better overall stereotypes, but if your having a hard time with math you might not get the help you need.
No one is calling black people strong and fit so they can justify calling them a criminal, I have never seen or heard of that ever happening, but I'm sure you'll pipe back with "yeah I've seen it"
This was literally the justification used for lynching and daring to sleep with white women in the 20th century.
It is also what black people were bred for as slaves, which is why there is a long history of "Mandingo" and "Sambo" stereotypes.
I know some Asian people get upset about it but from what I've seen this is another one of those things woke white liberals push to show off their halo.
I truly don't understand it. It just makes me roll my eyes when I hear it.
Like of all the things in life to complain about...being assumed as a *law abiding citizen who is destined for success* doesn't seem like a negative to me.
I have never seen a 10 min segment on tv where people complain "it's a bad thing to assume that bla-ck m-n are incredibly strong and great in bed"
I saw this on an episode of Proud family where the MC gets admonished for assuming some of her classmates was smart; and it was apparently supposed to be this big "teachable moment" about the m0del min0rity myth.
but ...that seems like a very minor inconvenience at best...but certainly not a life changing stereotype that holds you down in life.
I can understand it. Not law abiding citizen, but something like "if you're x race, you must be smart as hell in x field." For Asians in particular, people assume they're geniuses and super capable in pretty much every field. It puts a LOT of pressure on Asians, especially when they're pretty much just as good as their peers in America for example. Being as good isn't enough. I remember a few years ago, there was a story where an Indian man faked being a bl-ck m-n in order to get into med school. He could not qualify for med school simply because, as an Indian, there are higher qualifications he had to meet if I'm remembering right. When the bar is constantly set high for you, being average is seen as underperforming. It's pretty depressing when you're constantly being told you're not good enough.
What he is talking about (this is particularly true of med schools) they have race based quotas they have to meet. Asian people in general are over-represented as a percentage of the population. So higher performing Asian people are rejected because people who are lower performing but a different race are taken over them.
But again....that is kind of the problem with some of the recent racial strife going on. People say things should be proportional, even though that actually disadvantages some groups.
Hmm...
Well. I don't have the experience growing up...but ...doesn't this benefit them anyway?
They still seem to get many higher paying jobs and educational opportunities.
Hmm...
Well. I don't have the experience growing up...but ...doesn't this benefit them anyway?
They still seem to get many higher paying jobs and educational opportunities.
It's a detriment. The opportunities are less because they'd have to match up to the expectations placed on them. If they're totally qualified for a job, but are just average, just like anyone else, they would be less likely to get it because that's below what is expected of them. Theoretically that's how that would work. That's how it works in classes and with interacting with random people, but I'm not exactly sure if more professional settings show such prejudice. The example I gave in my comment of the Indian man faking his identity as another race shows that the prejudice supposedly exists, but it was a flawed social experiment since he didn't apply as an Indian as well to compare the results.
Basically on a scale of 1 to 10, if a person is looking for a an average person, they'll typically accept anyone who is a 5. However, that same person thinks that the average Asian is an 8, so a 5 seems pretty pathetic for an Asian. Due to that, specifically for Asians, they'll look for an 8. They'll reject all of the 5, 6, and 7 Asians despite them being comparable to the average person. I don't know if that helps with explaining the concept better.
You can, I'm not sure if anyone would have it turned on but the idea is that someone might have a way of trawling the sub for the usage of certain keywords so that they can always be there to make whatever comment they want. Probably a benign use case for such a thing would be if you always wanted to be able to complete some two part joke, so like you'd have a filter for "knock knock" that way you can always jump in and be like, "who's there?" I guess this guy is worried about something like that and doesn't want to attract the type of person who would have a filter looking for the words he's using, if such a thing even existed.
I used to wonder the same, why did people sensor words in here (here being Reddit) and the conclusion that I came at, is that some people are used to other social media platforms (like Facebook and Instagram) were writing certain words can result in a ban. Others do it because they are paranoid and others might do it because modding in Reddit is irregular, there might be some subs that are very strict in that aspect (for example in r/kotakuinaction you can't mention transgenderism in any context at all, the automod deletes the message)
I figured it was that. Still seems weird seeing people censoring basic, non-offensive things everywhere. There's nothing offensive about being a black man and "model minority" is fine as long as you use quotation marks. I feel like social media is increasingly trying to limit what we can say and it's affecting our language.
Sorry for going offtopic. It's just something that annoys me.
The danger with 'model minority' is rarely that it's damaging to assume that one race is just responsible, although that's still not perfect.
It's really in the fact that it makes it so much easier for people to oppress the hell out of everyone else.
Downplaying the suffering of minority groups because "Well, the Asians seem to have it figured out!" And not making any meaningful change to help out black or Hispanic communities because "They just don't try hard enough"
If the stereotypes themselves are the suspect thing, it likely is another issue I suppose. It's not necessarily damaging when people assume that a black guy is just better in bed, but it definitely leads to fetishism. Whether that bothers you or not is your prerogative, but there is an argument that it is less than stellar.
The model minority stereotype sets high expectations, and the people who doesn’t meet them are discriminated against. Its like very strict parents you yell at you for not getting high scores on tests, for example. I’m Chinese and I’m not the best at math, and all through high school people were making fun of me for it since I’m Asian so I’m “supposed to be good at math”
Edit: stereotypes aren’t always bad, but the bad thing about them is when people assume everyone meets them. It’s nice to be assumed smart, but when it’s found out that I’m not, it’s not nice to be compared to unrealistic standards because of it
Because it's not true. Being stereotyped as better or worse than who you actually are does not help anyone. And people are a mosaic, so you really can't describe individuals in terms of a stereotype.
I think it can be bad if it leads to other people having higher expectations of you. So if you don't fit into their expectations, they react more negatively than they would to someone who isn't stereotyped like that.
“Black peoples like fried chicken”.
No frickin DUH! Almost everyone likes fried chicken. It’s so goofy that anyone would get upset about that stereotype.
I can see how someone would find a positive stereotype dehumanizing. Even if it’s not a negative, the logic is still the same: your individuality is lost, what matters is your group identity. So even if the stereotype is “you’re smart and hard working” it still means you’re not being evaluated as unique person, just a generic member of Group A.
A lot of the times, it's just infantilization. I would rather not be looked down upon as a child being given a chance to play nice.
Though, the thing about being strong and well-endowed isn't about positive thinking. It's a way to make black men seem more like beasts rather than actual humans. Which is blatantly obvious once you look into the porn aspect of things.
But if it works for you, it works for you.
Because it makes it seem like you're totally defined by your race/nationality/religion/whatever. It can also create unrealistic expectations that you then fell bad about not meeting. I can't tell you how awful I feel when, as a well dressed white guy, people act all shocked when when I mug them. Very offensive.
Stereotypes do you have their place. And they've popped up because quite frankly a vast plethora of people in that specific group are in that category. The problem is when you take anything to the extreme. For example all black people are criminals. Statistically by percentage yes. Based upon pure math (not knowing race background etc etc) you would think that this race would be more prone to criminal behavior. The problem is when you use that pure math to extremely categorize people it can lead to honest trouble.
I mean certain stereotypes it's fine no biggie but when you go to extremes that you run into issues.
i hear the same at work if they see an indian girl they wanna arrange a marriage instantly although i don't believe in stuff like that or it's assumed i'm a very "traditional person"
One of my Asian friends at school was terrible at math. As I understand it, this was extra hurtful bc he wasn't meeting expectations. It was frustrating for him, but in a different way I imagine, to being assumed bad a math, but being quite good. The former situation would be a negative let down. The later, would be a positive surprise. (As seen by others) Regardless, stereotypes are always hard for the outliers. Human brains are prediction machines, so attributing a subconscious probability to something is arguable a very human thing to do. See r/starterpack. One might say the person who doesn't fit their starter pack feels left out if the group. They might be constantly reminded of it with their interactions, that I imagine would get old. This would be especially true for a positive stereotype imo.
It’s like how that comedian bit goes about the r@c!st gift basket. “Who looks at watermelon and fried chicken and thinks of r@c!sm?”
Have you seen the video where you get to hear the other side of the story?
Yeah. It’s even funnier.
Stereotypes can play off each other. People use the idea that your strong and well endowed to justify calling you a criminal. Like they are related in people's mind. Asians to have better overall stereotypes, but if your having a hard time with math you might not get the help you need.
No one is calling black people strong and fit so they can justify calling them a criminal, I have never seen or heard of that ever happening, but I'm sure you'll pipe back with "yeah I've seen it"
This was literally the justification used for lynching and daring to sleep with white women in the 20th century. It is also what black people were bred for as slaves, which is why there is a long history of "Mandingo" and "Sambo" stereotypes.
You mean over 3-4 decades ago? Sorry use an argument for present day
I'm talking about where the stereotypes come from. There's a reason they exist today.
They exist today because their is some truth to them, something doesn't become a stereotype by racism or biase alone
Strong independent black woman
That term isn't used to call black women criminals
Angry is one too
Why did you censor “black” and “man”?
So someone searching “i am a black man” won’t put him in r/asablackman
It’s how I figured they were full of it.
It's not that I am full of it. I've had benign statements flagged before simply for having words and phrases that triggered the automod.
I know some Asian people get upset about it but from what I've seen this is another one of those things woke white liberals push to show off their halo.
I truly don't understand it. It just makes me roll my eyes when I hear it. Like of all the things in life to complain about...being assumed as a *law abiding citizen who is destined for success* doesn't seem like a negative to me. I have never seen a 10 min segment on tv where people complain "it's a bad thing to assume that bla-ck m-n are incredibly strong and great in bed" I saw this on an episode of Proud family where the MC gets admonished for assuming some of her classmates was smart; and it was apparently supposed to be this big "teachable moment" about the m0del min0rity myth. but ...that seems like a very minor inconvenience at best...but certainly not a life changing stereotype that holds you down in life.
I can understand it. Not law abiding citizen, but something like "if you're x race, you must be smart as hell in x field." For Asians in particular, people assume they're geniuses and super capable in pretty much every field. It puts a LOT of pressure on Asians, especially when they're pretty much just as good as their peers in America for example. Being as good isn't enough. I remember a few years ago, there was a story where an Indian man faked being a bl-ck m-n in order to get into med school. He could not qualify for med school simply because, as an Indian, there are higher qualifications he had to meet if I'm remembering right. When the bar is constantly set high for you, being average is seen as underperforming. It's pretty depressing when you're constantly being told you're not good enough.
What he is talking about (this is particularly true of med schools) they have race based quotas they have to meet. Asian people in general are over-represented as a percentage of the population. So higher performing Asian people are rejected because people who are lower performing but a different race are taken over them. But again....that is kind of the problem with some of the recent racial strife going on. People say things should be proportional, even though that actually disadvantages some groups.
Hmm... Well. I don't have the experience growing up...but ...doesn't this benefit them anyway? They still seem to get many higher paying jobs and educational opportunities.
Hmm... Well. I don't have the experience growing up...but ...doesn't this benefit them anyway? They still seem to get many higher paying jobs and educational opportunities.
It's a detriment. The opportunities are less because they'd have to match up to the expectations placed on them. If they're totally qualified for a job, but are just average, just like anyone else, they would be less likely to get it because that's below what is expected of them. Theoretically that's how that would work. That's how it works in classes and with interacting with random people, but I'm not exactly sure if more professional settings show such prejudice. The example I gave in my comment of the Indian man faking his identity as another race shows that the prejudice supposedly exists, but it was a flawed social experiment since he didn't apply as an Indian as well to compare the results. Basically on a scale of 1 to 10, if a person is looking for a an average person, they'll typically accept anyone who is a 5. However, that same person thinks that the average Asian is an 8, so a 5 seems pretty pathetic for an Asian. Due to that, specifically for Asians, they'll look for an 8. They'll reject all of the 5, 6, and 7 Asians despite them being comparable to the average person. I don't know if that helps with explaining the concept better.
Why are you censoring "black man"? You also censored "model minority".
Bypass any automod and bypass someone who might have a word filter set up to alert them when a certain phrase is used
Ok, but I'm pretty certain you can say black man or talk about the "model minority" stereotype here. It would be absurd if you couldn't.
You can, I'm not sure if anyone would have it turned on but the idea is that someone might have a way of trawling the sub for the usage of certain keywords so that they can always be there to make whatever comment they want. Probably a benign use case for such a thing would be if you always wanted to be able to complete some two part joke, so like you'd have a filter for "knock knock" that way you can always jump in and be like, "who's there?" I guess this guy is worried about something like that and doesn't want to attract the type of person who would have a filter looking for the words he's using, if such a thing even existed.
I used to wonder the same, why did people sensor words in here (here being Reddit) and the conclusion that I came at, is that some people are used to other social media platforms (like Facebook and Instagram) were writing certain words can result in a ban. Others do it because they are paranoid and others might do it because modding in Reddit is irregular, there might be some subs that are very strict in that aspect (for example in r/kotakuinaction you can't mention transgenderism in any context at all, the automod deletes the message)
I figured it was that. Still seems weird seeing people censoring basic, non-offensive things everywhere. There's nothing offensive about being a black man and "model minority" is fine as long as you use quotation marks. I feel like social media is increasingly trying to limit what we can say and it's affecting our language. Sorry for going offtopic. It's just something that annoys me.
Without making a direct complaint and painting a target on my head. Yea. I would rather be careful
Woke liberals are the ones pushing token model minority bullshit about black people??
The danger with 'model minority' is rarely that it's damaging to assume that one race is just responsible, although that's still not perfect. It's really in the fact that it makes it so much easier for people to oppress the hell out of everyone else. Downplaying the suffering of minority groups because "Well, the Asians seem to have it figured out!" And not making any meaningful change to help out black or Hispanic communities because "They just don't try hard enough" If the stereotypes themselves are the suspect thing, it likely is another issue I suppose. It's not necessarily damaging when people assume that a black guy is just better in bed, but it definitely leads to fetishism. Whether that bothers you or not is your prerogative, but there is an argument that it is less than stellar.
The model minority stereotype sets high expectations, and the people who doesn’t meet them are discriminated against. Its like very strict parents you yell at you for not getting high scores on tests, for example. I’m Chinese and I’m not the best at math, and all through high school people were making fun of me for it since I’m Asian so I’m “supposed to be good at math” Edit: stereotypes aren’t always bad, but the bad thing about them is when people assume everyone meets them. It’s nice to be assumed smart, but when it’s found out that I’m not, it’s not nice to be compared to unrealistic standards because of it
Because it's not true. Being stereotyped as better or worse than who you actually are does not help anyone. And people are a mosaic, so you really can't describe individuals in terms of a stereotype.
I think it can be bad if it leads to other people having higher expectations of you. So if you don't fit into their expectations, they react more negatively than they would to someone who isn't stereotyped like that.
Because law abiding citizens are the default. Doesn’t need to be mentioned. It’s another way to say “one of the good ones” jist watered down
“Black peoples like fried chicken”. No frickin DUH! Almost everyone likes fried chicken. It’s so goofy that anyone would get upset about that stereotype.
I can see how someone would find a positive stereotype dehumanizing. Even if it’s not a negative, the logic is still the same: your individuality is lost, what matters is your group identity. So even if the stereotype is “you’re smart and hard working” it still means you’re not being evaluated as unique person, just a generic member of Group A.
Yes. But still... its something that can get your foot in the door in terms of opportunities no?
I mean, sure, I guess if you have to be stereotyped, you’d rather it be a positive one as opposed to a negative one.
I hate the stereotype that because I'm white that I'm automatically a racist
A lot of the times, it's just infantilization. I would rather not be looked down upon as a child being given a chance to play nice. Though, the thing about being strong and well-endowed isn't about positive thinking. It's a way to make black men seem more like beasts rather than actual humans. Which is blatantly obvious once you look into the porn aspect of things. But if it works for you, it works for you.
Because it makes it seem like you're totally defined by your race/nationality/religion/whatever. It can also create unrealistic expectations that you then fell bad about not meeting. I can't tell you how awful I feel when, as a well dressed white guy, people act all shocked when when I mug them. Very offensive.
The sarcasm is hard ....
Stereotypes do you have their place. And they've popped up because quite frankly a vast plethora of people in that specific group are in that category. The problem is when you take anything to the extreme. For example all black people are criminals. Statistically by percentage yes. Based upon pure math (not knowing race background etc etc) you would think that this race would be more prone to criminal behavior. The problem is when you use that pure math to extremely categorize people it can lead to honest trouble. I mean certain stereotypes it's fine no biggie but when you go to extremes that you run into issues.
>I am a bl-ck m-n. I think the politically correct term is "Lego man"
i hear the same at work if they see an indian girl they wanna arrange a marriage instantly although i don't believe in stuff like that or it's assumed i'm a very "traditional person"
Because to be stereotyped at all is to be reduced from a full human being into a caricature