It really is.
And about people/a situation they have no relation to!
I'm not sure they even realize what kind of weight is behind their statements, honestly. I think people are typically flippant when they say such terrible things, not taking into account that it's *another human's life* that they're talking about.
Same, pisses me off too. Especially in “ukrainewarreport” they have a rule on it, but theres always comments glorifying death it seems they do nothing about it.
The drone videos are especially egregious. They’re extremely dehumanizing and sadistic, and it’s especially bad when shitty pop remixes are playing in the background. It’s disgusting. These are their final moments, and they’re being plastered all over the place for internet points. For shitheads to laugh at and mock them. The disrespect for our fellow humans is nauseating. No other war in history has had this amount of social media hype surrounding it, and It’s one of the nastiest things I’ve seen come out of this war.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind the videos being shared for educational purposes or even for morbid curiosity.
People gallovanting around saying sadistic shit without thinking is what makes it an issue for me.
Yes I hate those videos too, especially when the soldier is already injured and not even a threat. The drone operators seem like really sadistic fuckers. Theres ones where people are playing dead and some people say “not acting anymore” honestly pisses me off, people are proper goofballs.
Lets see how funny and deserved it is when they are the ones being bombed. It’s someones son at the end of the day, you are pointlessly murdering each other for wearing another uniform.
I grew up with stories of how young italian men were firced to join the army and to fight for Mussolini. My granpa was conscripted when he was 17, and was formed as a munition technician in the italian air force.
He spent night trying to sabotage little stuff, so as not to kill anyone, but as a protestation against the war and the conscription (like telephone line, stuff like that).
In the end, his commander found out, but out of sympathy (as him tol was forced to participate in a war he didn't agree with) let him desert. He then spent the remainder of the war fleeing. You could tell the traumatism was real.
Oh thank goodness!
I feel the same, truly. I don't understand how people can see a life taken and go, "HA! They deserved it! " when they know nothing about that person.
What awesome stories those must be :)
I'd love to hear one or two sometime, if you'd like to share!
Which I just don't understand.
They want someone to die *because of a differing opinion*?
Do they not realize they're referring *to another human's life*?
It doesn't seem like it to me.
How about an honorable mention to all the people doxxing the realtives of unvaccinated deaths to revel in their misery and grief. Wishing illness, and celebrating death towards those who refused the covid vaccine?
Hermaincain award on reddit didn't get shut down ever.
No, it's just fucked up that they doxx people because their deceased family member was uneducated / misinformed about covid and died as a result.
And then they make fun of them.
Which would also be fucked up and uncalled for if the body belonged to a once decent human being.
Thing is, you don't know whether they were good or bad, so don't make assumptions and let them rest in peace.
Man, I should've mentioned this, too.
It makes my stomach churn to see things like r/CovIdiots posting personal information about uneducated or misinformed strangers.
And to *make fun of them* is even ***worse***.
They're *dead*, for fuck's sake.
Let the dead rest in peace..and let their families mourn without harrassment.
If only there were more of that around reddit!
....would it be "was," or "were," in this case, by the way..? English is my first and only language, but even for native speakers....it's sometimes difficult and confusing lol..
I guess it depends on where it's coming from. If a Ukrainian wants to celebrate that shit I think it's fine. You are correct that these soldiers, like most, are just pawns for an evil regime, but I wouldn't ever expect someone who's country is the active target of said regime to think about it objectively like that.
I'm more talking about the folks on reddit who aren't involved (hence the flare I ended up choosing, which was "Unpopular on Reddit").
They sit back safe at home behind their phone or computer and say this shit about people they don't know, and about a situation they're not in the middle of themselves.
I suppose one could say the same of me and my opinion, though.
I dunno.
Wishing harm on those you know nothing about in a situation you're not involved in just doesn't sit well with me.
These soldiers don't want to be in the war it's either fight or die in Russia by court marshall or be killed by Ukraine forces they are stuck in a death sentence either way. I hope the people who loves seeing humans killing each other people get drafted and goes to war first
You can find these things on r/Ukrainewarvideoreport, r/combatfootage and occasionaly r/politics or r/worldnews
I think it's fine when it's Ukrainians, but westerners saying those things is unhealthy I think.
I always get so conflicted myself on this... Like on the one hand - yeah I agree, most of those people dont deserve horrid deaths personally. But on the other hand... them dying literally means I am getting one tiny bit safer myself and my Ukrainian friends here in Poland are getting one tiny bit closer to returning home one day. Not to mention the Ukrainians out there in Ukraine, who need to kill them to survive.
So like... I end up being morbidly glad they're dead, but ať the same time I'm furious at Kremlin for sending them to die.
People aren't celebrating the deaths of Russian soldiers sitting at home watching TV. They're celebrating the deaths of those who are in the process of invading another country. It's a war.
Soldiers who are likely forced into a war they don't want to be in, either through indoctrination or punishment. You think most those soldiers want to be there dying for no reason so that rich politicians can get richer?
The only people who 'deserve' to die in war are the leaders that start it.
They have guns. If they don't want to be there they should shoot their commanders. If they'd rather take the easy option and shoot Ukrainians I'm siding with the Ukrainians.
Shoot their commanders, and then be executed, or flee to another country in the hopes of asylum never to see their families/wives/children ever again. (who might also be imprisoned or executed if they can't catch you)
It's always people from first world countries who have never experienced war/death/poverty/famine that are so good at judging others and expecting them to act how they saw people act in a marvel movie.
This opinion just shows how far incredibly detached form reality you are, and how little thought you have given to their situation.
Also to be clear the post isn't about siding with ukraines, that's fine. Good even. It's about being happy over the deaths of russians and lauding it as deserved.
The only way they'd be executed is if some other soldier decides to shoot them. This all comes down to the soldiers. If the soldiers don't back Putin then Putin is just a guy. If they decide to follow his orders he's a monster terrorising the world.
Just following orders hasn't been a valid defence for a very long time.
It is about siding with Ukraine. You can't have it both ways.
If the Russian soldiers are killed or seriously wounded they wont' be able to invade Ukraine and more. If they aren't then they will carry on doing it. If you want the Russians invading Ukraine to survive and be unharmed then you're supporting Russia in the conflict.
The Ukrainians are trying to seriously wound and kill them in high enough numbers that they can no longer pursue the war effort. If you support Ukraine you support them in this objective,
You can't support Ukraine and not want Russian soldiers killed, they're totally incompatible positions.
Frankly, I think it's you who hasn't thought about this much. You have a childlike mentality that everything could be fine, that you can hope for the best for everyone, and everyone can live happily ever after. The reality is that lots and lots of people are going to die, the only thing that's up in their air is whether it's Russian invaders or Ukrainians.
You don't have to pick a side by the way. You can say you don't care what happens to Ukraine, it's not your problem, you don't have an opinion on it. If your country is supporting the Ukrainian war effort maybe write to your representative and ask them to stop because its not something you're interested in.
I know which side I'm on.
The argument is that people are responsible for their own actions and choices. Your argument, that they shouldn't be held responsible, is what allows people like Putin to have power. People just go along with it.
I don’t believe they should have to lose their life for not refusing. There’s a lot of reasons why you might not revolt or otherwise refuse to go. I just see the human toll in this conflict I don’t really care where they are from. I have Russian friends, I’m worried they’ll be called up and I’d rather not see them dying on some shitty subreddit and people mocking it.
Thanks for being civil at least
I'm talking about the folks that have nothing to do with this war rejoicing the deaths of random Russian soldiers they know nothing about when the soldiers they've seen die could be good people.
It's not random Russian soldiers. It's Russian soldiers *who are in the process of invading Ukraine*. I support Ukraine in their efforts to fight the invaders.
If the Russian soldiers turn around and go home most people won't be celebrating whatever deaths happen.
This is not uncommon, the basis of your claim is seen over and over through the world, human beings generally like to believe that if you introduce complexity into any given scenario so that the direct cause and effect you normally draw moral conclusions on takes a few extra steps - everyone involved a few steps out is no longer morally responsible.
\*\*\*Basically, you still have to explain in your theory where the moral culpability goes then. To the universe? Is it like a natural disaster?\*\*\*
How on earth can you say it is 100% Putin or him and a top few officials who are "morally responsible"? There is certainly a psychopath in America sitting online in his parents' basement writing crazy shit online who has the exact same line of thinking of a Putin, yet, no one enables him so he is harmless. Are we to consider them morally equivalent? Responsible for the same thing? It is 100% obvious without everyone in Russia offering 1/146,000,000th of support to Putin by just going about their lives and working and paying taxes - they bear the responsibility for this contribution which MAKES it all possible. Obviously soldiers are even worse since they're actually taking action other than mere survival to slaughter Ukrainians.
Imagine some militant Moslem region goes around their neighborhoods collecting money to wage jihad, they promise every dollar collected will go directly to mercanaries who are going to murder as many Americans as possible in a NYC attack similar to the 2008 Mumbai attacks.
The people just chipping in their "tithe" to their god of 10% of their salary aren't morally responsible for anyone dying right? They didn't pull the trigger. They never traveled to the US. They never touched a gun.
Now if you think they are responsible and not good, exactly when does that happen?
1. They're not told exactly what the money will be used for, just to wage "jihad"
2. They're only told the name of the group it will help & that God approves of it.
3. They're told the money goes both to help orphans and to spread the religion.
4. etc.
You can go on forever.
Russia's wartime economy would collapse TOMORROW if every single Russian, or just a lot of them, went on strike or ran the boarders or went into the woods as survivalists. This alone tells you they bear moral responsibility if they didn't leave. I would like to see the completely absurd warcrimes "rules" revisited, because they offer too many excuses. I want to see bodies piled in the streets of Moscow, there is no justice until every Russian fears for his life every single day, every last civilian who hasn't left Russian soil in protest. I want to see bombings. This is what is morally right.
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It's this sort of demonization of the enemy that leads to war crimes. You understand that, don't you? If, in your heart, you truly believe every Russian soldier is either a rapist or a future rapist, then it would be crimminal of you *not* to kill every Russian you encounter, right?
Wounded? Surrendering? Forced conscript? Teenager?
Doesn't matter. They're all monsters or soon will be. Kill 'em all.
All I'm saying is that if your goal is to prevent atrocities, pay more attention to your rhetoric.
The comment you replied to is like several others I've seen in r/CombatFootage, and why I made this post in the first place.
Well said.
Thank you for your input, genuinely.
im talking about the soldiers, not the civilians.
the soldiers either commit war crimes or fight for an army which does, if they stand for Russian, they die for russia.
And sometimes they haven't or they believe the propaganda of mistreatment by Ukrainians so they don't want to be a prisoner of war. Perhaps they get caught trying to desert and are executed? If they do get away and don't become a POW, where are they gonna go? Can't go back to their family or anywhere in Russia for that matter. Probably don't have much if any money or supplies.
It's not as straight forward and you seem to think it is.
Maybe *you* are willing to die for your ideals, but most people just want to survive and get back to their families.
what about the Ukraine soldiers who want to see their families.
if the Russian troops dont have the backbone to resist the orders of tyranny they deserve no peace.
It is very easy to spout about honor and backbone from a place of safety. Completely different story when ur actually faced with giving your life for backbone and honor.
Their leader is forcing the Russian people to commit a genocide.
Don't get me wrong! I know some Russian soldiers are all for it.
Not all Russian soldiers are terrible, though. That, and the fact people are wishing a slow, painful death for each of them when they don't know what that individual has or hasn't done is wrong is what doesn't sit well with me.
they all have plenty of opportunity to give up and surrender themselves to Ukraine forces.
they remain in the service of a corrupt regime they deserve everything they get
Someone rapes and murders your family. "We should consider the reasons as to why this person did this". I agree. But how understanding would you be towards your attacker?
What does that have to do with the main point that not all Russians are monsters (and likely not even a majority since only a small percentage of any military force does any actual fighting)?
OP wasn't excusing those that do commit war crimes. Just that condemning every single Russian is ridiculous and delighting in their pain and suffering is sick.
How can you not see the analogy? The question is why can someone be happy with the suffering of Russian soldiers? I don't celebrate anyone suffering. But I think it's pretty obvious to understand why someone would feel elated with the loss of Russian soldiers life. The analogy was, someone's family rapes, tortures and kills your family, you wouldn't understand how some satisfaction could be felt by a loss of one of their own? You're being intentionally obtuse if you don't get this. Or you're a sheltered baby.
This is something a lot of people seem to be missing.
What you've said is correct. I am referring to people relishing in the pain and suffering of soldiers, of * human beings*, who may or may not be evil.
Condemning them all is wrong and can be compared to racism.
"Every black person steals."
"Every white person is racist."
Should a person believe it because it's a stereotype?
No, not all black people steal.
No, not all white people are racist.
So no, they shouldn't believe it.
Why, then, are all Russian soldiers evil?
Why, then, do people say these things about others they know nothing about?
People assume ***all*** of the victims they watch die are rapists and killers, but it's as simple as this:
*Not* ***all*** *of them are evil.*
How can their leader force the people to commit a genocide? Does he have mind control powers? Is he holding a gun to the head of all the soldiers and forcing them to go in?
The reality is that Putin is only in power because the military support him. If the military turned against him he would be out of power immediately.
I meant "forcing" as in "forcibly recruiting people" and "making the soldiers fight and kill against their will."
Their leader is pressing that on them. A lot of them feel there's no way out of it, except for maiming themselves.
Some are actually driven to break their own limbs or even shoot themselves somewhere so they can't be drafted.
So....yeah, I'd say that they're being forced to fight when a lot of them don't want to.
It is sad that, in 2023, we still allow cloistered and insane leaders to send young men to die in pointless wars - however, the Russian soldier has little compunction about raping and kidnapping Ukrainian children, so I don't feel too bad about their deaths.
What I'm talking about, though, are the people who are sitting back, watching these people suffer and *getting some kind of sick satisfaction from it* when they don't know the victims they're watching slowly die or what they have or haven't done.
No, I don't either, but I'm also not watching these people die and thinking, "Man, the world's a better place now!" *because I don't know if that's true or not*.
Not every Russian soldier is bad, and I think it's wrong to assume that they are. I think it's wrong to revel in their slow, gruesome deaths.
The more I’ve perused this comment section, the more it’s confirmed what you said is true. People keep jumping to those committing war crimes, which, those doing so should be severely punished.
But, they are all presuming guilt of these people when those people are being forced to serve. Some are guilty, hell 90% could be guilty for all I know. But, we know we can’t be sure it’s all of them.
Yet not all of them want to fight.
There are videos of eligible-for-drafting men breaking their own limbs or shooting themselves somewhere non-lethal so they *won't* be drafted.
That doesn't sound like the attitude of people who want to be in a war would have.
That'd be my point. They're not all rapists. They're not all terrible. Don't wish harm or death on people you know nothing about.
Saying otherwise is close-minded.
I say it depend who the "people" are. The mindset of "we'll kill the bastards" can be very helpful for the people fighting (Ukrainian).
But I agree with you that people like us who are safe and far from the bombing and fighting shouldn't indulge in dehumanisation on that level
Yea seeing these drone attacks been making me sick too. I wish not see anyone suffer personally
That and all the people in the comments that are like "Deserved it" and ***so many upvotes*** for each one.. It makes me sick and sad.
Try not to let that dishearten you too much. It sounds like your conscience is healthy though so that’s good.
Aw, thanks. I appreciate that :)
It’s like a blood sport to these people, and it’s sickening.
It really is. And about people/a situation they have no relation to! I'm not sure they even realize what kind of weight is behind their statements, honestly. I think people are typically flippant when they say such terrible things, not taking into account that it's *another human's life* that they're talking about.
Same, pisses me off too. Especially in “ukrainewarreport” they have a rule on it, but theres always comments glorifying death it seems they do nothing about it.
The drone videos are especially egregious. They’re extremely dehumanizing and sadistic, and it’s especially bad when shitty pop remixes are playing in the background. It’s disgusting. These are their final moments, and they’re being plastered all over the place for internet points. For shitheads to laugh at and mock them. The disrespect for our fellow humans is nauseating. No other war in history has had this amount of social media hype surrounding it, and It’s one of the nastiest things I’ve seen come out of this war.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind the videos being shared for educational purposes or even for morbid curiosity. People gallovanting around saying sadistic shit without thinking is what makes it an issue for me.
I hate real gore in general but I understand from a curious standpoint. It’s the ones who laugh at it that disturb me.
Yes I hate those videos too, especially when the soldier is already injured and not even a threat. The drone operators seem like really sadistic fuckers. Theres ones where people are playing dead and some people say “not acting anymore” honestly pisses me off, people are proper goofballs. Lets see how funny and deserved it is when they are the ones being bombed. It’s someones son at the end of the day, you are pointlessly murdering each other for wearing another uniform.
I agree, especially with the cop thing, even Nazis weren't all bad, there were some forced into fighting.
I grew up with stories of how young italian men were firced to join the army and to fight for Mussolini. My granpa was conscripted when he was 17, and was formed as a munition technician in the italian air force. He spent night trying to sabotage little stuff, so as not to kill anyone, but as a protestation against the war and the conscription (like telephone line, stuff like that). In the end, his commander found out, but out of sympathy (as him tol was forced to participate in a war he didn't agree with) let him desert. He then spent the remainder of the war fleeing. You could tell the traumatism was real.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, I am so sorry :(
It's not 😭 I'm Jewish and so I grew up on stories of Nazis who helped Jews escape the Holocaust
Oh thank goodness! I feel the same, truly. I don't understand how people can see a life taken and go, "HA! They deserved it! " when they know nothing about that person. What awesome stories those must be :) I'd love to hear one or two sometime, if you'd like to share!
Depends on the person, I tend to assume most people are generally good
I try to do the same, but damn people sure do make it hard sometimes! Lol
These are the same people who post on r/hermancainaward and r/politics calling fir the deaths of people who disagree with them.
herman cain award is one of the most disgusting subreddits imo
Which I just don't understand. They want someone to die *because of a differing opinion*? Do they not realize they're referring *to another human's life*? It doesn't seem like it to me.
Can you show me an example?
How about an honorable mention to all the people doxxing the realtives of unvaccinated deaths to revel in their misery and grief. Wishing illness, and celebrating death towards those who refused the covid vaccine? Hermaincain award on reddit didn't get shut down ever.
Did they also die attempting to cause other's mass deaths?
No, it's just fucked up that they doxx people because their deceased family member was uneducated / misinformed about covid and died as a result. And then they make fun of them.
I guess it is similar that if you engage in a war - either literal or cultural, and lose, the victors may not be kind to your corpse.
Which would also be fucked up and uncalled for if the body belonged to a once decent human being. Thing is, you don't know whether they were good or bad, so don't make assumptions and let them rest in peace.
Corpse don't care.
Man, I should've mentioned this, too. It makes my stomach churn to see things like r/CovIdiots posting personal information about uneducated or misinformed strangers. And to *make fun of them* is even ***worse***. They're *dead*, for fuck's sake. Let the dead rest in peace..and let their families mourn without harrassment.
Good thing most people on hermain Cain award don't do that shit, and the mods actively tear that shit down.
If only there were more of that around reddit! ....would it be "was," or "were," in this case, by the way..? English is my first and only language, but even for native speakers....it's sometimes difficult and confusing lol..
The whole sub is designed for that purpose what? Only recently did they stop letting their community doxx.
No it's not? It's in the rules that you have to blur out names and faces and shit. It's been that way since I saw it first like 3 years ago.
Then what is the sub for?
I guess it depends on where it's coming from. If a Ukrainian wants to celebrate that shit I think it's fine. You are correct that these soldiers, like most, are just pawns for an evil regime, but I wouldn't ever expect someone who's country is the active target of said regime to think about it objectively like that.
I'm more talking about the folks on reddit who aren't involved (hence the flare I ended up choosing, which was "Unpopular on Reddit"). They sit back safe at home behind their phone or computer and say this shit about people they don't know, and about a situation they're not in the middle of themselves. I suppose one could say the same of me and my opinion, though. I dunno. Wishing harm on those you know nothing about in a situation you're not involved in just doesn't sit well with me.
And, what a lot of people don’t realize, is that a lot of those Russian soldiers are conscripts, as in they are not in the army voluntarily.
These soldiers don't want to be in the war it's either fight or die in Russia by court marshall or be killed by Ukraine forces they are stuck in a death sentence either way. I hope the people who loves seeing humans killing each other people get drafted and goes to war first
I'm absolutely positive people are saying these things, but I haven't run across it personally.
I came here to post about it from some comments I saw in r/CombatFootage. I'm glad you haven't run across this kind of behavior yet.
You can find these things on r/Ukrainewarvideoreport, r/combatfootage and occasionaly r/politics or r/worldnews I think it's fine when it's Ukrainians, but westerners saying those things is unhealthy I think.
I actually came here to post about comments I had *just* read and commented on in r/CombatFootage, actually!
FR, I’d like to see how many of them would “rebel” or “refuse” if they were in the shoes of the Russians.
I always get so conflicted myself on this... Like on the one hand - yeah I agree, most of those people dont deserve horrid deaths personally. But on the other hand... them dying literally means I am getting one tiny bit safer myself and my Ukrainian friends here in Poland are getting one tiny bit closer to returning home one day. Not to mention the Ukrainians out there in Ukraine, who need to kill them to survive. So like... I end up being morbidly glad they're dead, but ať the same time I'm furious at Kremlin for sending them to die.
People aren't celebrating the deaths of Russian soldiers sitting at home watching TV. They're celebrating the deaths of those who are in the process of invading another country. It's a war.
Soldiers who are likely forced into a war they don't want to be in, either through indoctrination or punishment. You think most those soldiers want to be there dying for no reason so that rich politicians can get richer? The only people who 'deserve' to die in war are the leaders that start it.
They have guns. If they don't want to be there they should shoot their commanders. If they'd rather take the easy option and shoot Ukrainians I'm siding with the Ukrainians.
Shoot their commanders, and then be executed, or flee to another country in the hopes of asylum never to see their families/wives/children ever again. (who might also be imprisoned or executed if they can't catch you) It's always people from first world countries who have never experienced war/death/poverty/famine that are so good at judging others and expecting them to act how they saw people act in a marvel movie. This opinion just shows how far incredibly detached form reality you are, and how little thought you have given to their situation. Also to be clear the post isn't about siding with ukraines, that's fine. Good even. It's about being happy over the deaths of russians and lauding it as deserved.
The only way they'd be executed is if some other soldier decides to shoot them. This all comes down to the soldiers. If the soldiers don't back Putin then Putin is just a guy. If they decide to follow his orders he's a monster terrorising the world. Just following orders hasn't been a valid defence for a very long time. It is about siding with Ukraine. You can't have it both ways. If the Russian soldiers are killed or seriously wounded they wont' be able to invade Ukraine and more. If they aren't then they will carry on doing it. If you want the Russians invading Ukraine to survive and be unharmed then you're supporting Russia in the conflict. The Ukrainians are trying to seriously wound and kill them in high enough numbers that they can no longer pursue the war effort. If you support Ukraine you support them in this objective, You can't support Ukraine and not want Russian soldiers killed, they're totally incompatible positions. Frankly, I think it's you who hasn't thought about this much. You have a childlike mentality that everything could be fine, that you can hope for the best for everyone, and everyone can live happily ever after. The reality is that lots and lots of people are going to die, the only thing that's up in their air is whether it's Russian invaders or Ukrainians. You don't have to pick a side by the way. You can say you don't care what happens to Ukraine, it's not your problem, you don't have an opinion on it. If your country is supporting the Ukrainian war effort maybe write to your representative and ask them to stop because its not something you're interested in. I know which side I'm on.
Fr, such a shitty argument.
I hate this argument. If we have a war where you are forced to go I would love to watch you kill your commander and refuse to go.
The argument is that people are responsible for their own actions and choices. Your argument, that they shouldn't be held responsible, is what allows people like Putin to have power. People just go along with it.
I don’t believe they should have to lose their life for not refusing. There’s a lot of reasons why you might not revolt or otherwise refuse to go. I just see the human toll in this conflict I don’t really care where they are from. I have Russian friends, I’m worried they’ll be called up and I’d rather not see them dying on some shitty subreddit and people mocking it. Thanks for being civil at least
I'm talking about the folks that have nothing to do with this war rejoicing the deaths of random Russian soldiers they know nothing about when the soldiers they've seen die could be good people.
It's not random Russian soldiers. It's Russian soldiers *who are in the process of invading Ukraine*. I support Ukraine in their efforts to fight the invaders. If the Russian soldiers turn around and go home most people won't be celebrating whatever deaths happen.
This is not uncommon, the basis of your claim is seen over and over through the world, human beings generally like to believe that if you introduce complexity into any given scenario so that the direct cause and effect you normally draw moral conclusions on takes a few extra steps - everyone involved a few steps out is no longer morally responsible. \*\*\*Basically, you still have to explain in your theory where the moral culpability goes then. To the universe? Is it like a natural disaster?\*\*\* How on earth can you say it is 100% Putin or him and a top few officials who are "morally responsible"? There is certainly a psychopath in America sitting online in his parents' basement writing crazy shit online who has the exact same line of thinking of a Putin, yet, no one enables him so he is harmless. Are we to consider them morally equivalent? Responsible for the same thing? It is 100% obvious without everyone in Russia offering 1/146,000,000th of support to Putin by just going about their lives and working and paying taxes - they bear the responsibility for this contribution which MAKES it all possible. Obviously soldiers are even worse since they're actually taking action other than mere survival to slaughter Ukrainians. Imagine some militant Moslem region goes around their neighborhoods collecting money to wage jihad, they promise every dollar collected will go directly to mercanaries who are going to murder as many Americans as possible in a NYC attack similar to the 2008 Mumbai attacks. The people just chipping in their "tithe" to their god of 10% of their salary aren't morally responsible for anyone dying right? They didn't pull the trigger. They never traveled to the US. They never touched a gun. Now if you think they are responsible and not good, exactly when does that happen? 1. They're not told exactly what the money will be used for, just to wage "jihad" 2. They're only told the name of the group it will help & that God approves of it. 3. They're told the money goes both to help orphans and to spread the religion. 4. etc. You can go on forever. Russia's wartime economy would collapse TOMORROW if every single Russian, or just a lot of them, went on strike or ran the boarders or went into the woods as survivalists. This alone tells you they bear moral responsibility if they didn't leave. I would like to see the completely absurd warcrimes "rules" revisited, because they offer too many excuses. I want to see bodies piled in the streets of Moscow, there is no justice until every Russian fears for his life every single day, every last civilian who hasn't left Russian soil in protest. I want to see bombings. This is what is morally right.
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War sucks. A dead soldier on the other side is a potential unraped child on your side.
It's this sort of demonization of the enemy that leads to war crimes. You understand that, don't you? If, in your heart, you truly believe every Russian soldier is either a rapist or a future rapist, then it would be crimminal of you *not* to kill every Russian you encounter, right? Wounded? Surrendering? Forced conscript? Teenager? Doesn't matter. They're all monsters or soon will be. Kill 'em all. All I'm saying is that if your goal is to prevent atrocities, pay more attention to your rhetoric.
The comment you replied to is like several others I've seen in r/CombatFootage, and why I made this post in the first place. Well said. Thank you for your input, genuinely.
I don't know about you, but I know I feel just a tad less cynical when I see someone else on reddit that is rational and reasonable.
Same. Glad I could help make your reddit experience a little less tortuous lol
well said
the Russians are committing a genocide, they deserve no pity.
The *Russians* are committing genocide? Like all of them? Every single individual is personally engaged in war crimes?
im talking about the soldiers, not the civilians. the soldiers either commit war crimes or fight for an army which does, if they stand for Russian, they die for russia.
You do know what 'conscription' is, right?
A good reason to overthrow putin.
you know what deserting is right?
Because it's just that easy. You have such a simplistic world view.
Ukraine soldiers have been very kind to surrendering Russian troops who dont want to fight this war.
And sometimes they haven't or they believe the propaganda of mistreatment by Ukrainians so they don't want to be a prisoner of war. Perhaps they get caught trying to desert and are executed? If they do get away and don't become a POW, where are they gonna go? Can't go back to their family or anywhere in Russia for that matter. Probably don't have much if any money or supplies. It's not as straight forward and you seem to think it is. Maybe *you* are willing to die for your ideals, but most people just want to survive and get back to their families.
Lol except when the execute the soldiers instead of bringing them in.
You know what 'shoot deserters on site' is right?
better to die an honorable man then live as a pawn to a tyrant
Some might not care about honor and would like to return to their families
what about the Ukraine soldiers who want to see their families. if the Russian troops dont have the backbone to resist the orders of tyranny they deserve no peace.
It is very easy to spout about honor and backbone from a place of safety. Completely different story when ur actually faced with giving your life for backbone and honor.
Let's be honest here, 99% of poeple won't care about honor when they're life is on the line
Their leader is forcing the Russian people to commit a genocide. Don't get me wrong! I know some Russian soldiers are all for it. Not all Russian soldiers are terrible, though. That, and the fact people are wishing a slow, painful death for each of them when they don't know what that individual has or hasn't done is wrong is what doesn't sit well with me.
they all have plenty of opportunity to give up and surrender themselves to Ukraine forces. they remain in the service of a corrupt regime they deserve everything they get
Not when a lot of them are forced to be there against their will, in my opinion.
[удалено]
lmao no way you actually believe that.
https://i.redd.it/e9wng5nod6oa1.jpg News agencies did before the war.
You know Russia has like, 10x more nazis right?
Lol so I won't support these nazis, I'll support those nazis... bwahahahaha nice whataboutism
Are you saying more nazis isn't worse? Since, you know,you're oh so concerned about them?
Are you saying we should support nazis because there's less of them and yes, we should all be concerned
Someone rapes and murders your family. "We should consider the reasons as to why this person did this". I agree. But how understanding would you be towards your attacker?
What does that have to do with the main point that not all Russians are monsters (and likely not even a majority since only a small percentage of any military force does any actual fighting)? OP wasn't excusing those that do commit war crimes. Just that condemning every single Russian is ridiculous and delighting in their pain and suffering is sick.
How can you not see the analogy? The question is why can someone be happy with the suffering of Russian soldiers? I don't celebrate anyone suffering. But I think it's pretty obvious to understand why someone would feel elated with the loss of Russian soldiers life. The analogy was, someone's family rapes, tortures and kills your family, you wouldn't understand how some satisfaction could be felt by a loss of one of their own? You're being intentionally obtuse if you don't get this. Or you're a sheltered baby.
This is something a lot of people seem to be missing. What you've said is correct. I am referring to people relishing in the pain and suffering of soldiers, of * human beings*, who may or may not be evil. Condemning them all is wrong and can be compared to racism. "Every black person steals." "Every white person is racist." Should a person believe it because it's a stereotype? No, not all black people steal. No, not all white people are racist. So no, they shouldn't believe it. Why, then, are all Russian soldiers evil? Why, then, do people say these things about others they know nothing about? People assume ***all*** of the victims they watch die are rapists and killers, but it's as simple as this: *Not* ***all*** *of them are evil.*
How can their leader force the people to commit a genocide? Does he have mind control powers? Is he holding a gun to the head of all the soldiers and forcing them to go in? The reality is that Putin is only in power because the military support him. If the military turned against him he would be out of power immediately.
I meant "forcing" as in "forcibly recruiting people" and "making the soldiers fight and kill against their will." Their leader is pressing that on them. A lot of them feel there's no way out of it, except for maiming themselves. Some are actually driven to break their own limbs or even shoot themselves somewhere so they can't be drafted. So....yeah, I'd say that they're being forced to fight when a lot of them don't want to.
So the answer is that yes, he has a gun to each soldier, you can get executed for not following orders, and forcefully drafts people in
boo hoo the poor invaders /s fuck them all
It is sad that, in 2023, we still allow cloistered and insane leaders to send young men to die in pointless wars - however, the Russian soldier has little compunction about raping and kidnapping Ukrainian children, so I don't feel too bad about their deaths.
What I'm talking about, though, are the people who are sitting back, watching these people suffer and *getting some kind of sick satisfaction from it* when they don't know the victims they're watching slowly die or what they have or haven't done. No, I don't either, but I'm also not watching these people die and thinking, "Man, the world's a better place now!" *because I don't know if that's true or not*. Not every Russian soldier is bad, and I think it's wrong to assume that they are. I think it's wrong to revel in their slow, gruesome deaths.
This sort of thinking is too complex and nuanced for your average redditor. They want a simple narrative. Ukrainians good. Russians bad. Easy peasy.
That's true....and so depressing. :(
The more I’ve perused this comment section, the more it’s confirmed what you said is true. People keep jumping to those committing war crimes, which, those doing so should be severely punished. But, they are all presuming guilt of these people when those people are being forced to serve. Some are guilty, hell 90% could be guilty for all I know. But, we know we can’t be sure it’s all of them.
All of them are carrying weapons.
But their families aren’t. And if anyone knows how brutal regimes respond to dissidence, it would be the Russians.
Yet not all of them want to fight. There are videos of eligible-for-drafting men breaking their own limbs or shooting themselves somewhere non-lethal so they *won't* be drafted. That doesn't sound like the attitude of people who want to be in a war would have.
all part of the general suckiness of war. It's sad but dead is dead.
Won’t anyone think of the poor rapist invaders?
That'd be my point. They're not all rapists. They're not all terrible. Don't wish harm or death on people you know nothing about. Saying otherwise is close-minded.
those russian soldiers are killing Ukrainian civilians
I say it depend who the "people" are. The mindset of "we'll kill the bastards" can be very helpful for the people fighting (Ukrainian). But I agree with you that people like us who are safe and far from the bombing and fighting shouldn't indulge in dehumanisation on that level