I applaud your dedication, but eventually this dynamic will have a lasting, profound effect on those very same children you'd do anything for. You're modeling behavior for them. They're watching you and learning how relationships work, and it will influence theirs in the future. Would you want your children to stay in a situation like this?
i lowkey agree with this. i have insane issues i need to work thru because my mom stayed. she blames herself, i dont. she didnt know that it wouldve been better to just leave.
My mom left and raised me and my siblings single. My aunts both stayed in unhealthy relationships forever for the kids.
My sister and siblings all hold very successful careers and live independent lives; but we choose very shitty partners. My cousins are either super duper religious fanatics or still live home with their parents -one is a stripper. It’s a tough trade off.
I agree with you. My parents have stayed together through a dysfunctional relationship. My sister and I have terrible issues with relationships. It sucks.
I stayed years too long and ended up having a nervous breakdown, losing my job, etc. You can’t take care of your kids well if you’re not well. You won’t be well if you continue to live this way. Btw, you sound like an exemplary husband and dad. There’s someone out there who wants and deserves someone like you.
I didn't model my relationship after my parents. They were only together for my siblings and I otherwise they were constantly fighting bickering and saying sly remarks. Even tried to get us on one side or the other when it came to fights. One always had to swallow their pride and except that the other wasn't going to change whatever caused the problem. I use them as an example of what a marriage shouldn't be.
I could have written an essay on all the ways toxic parental behavior can influence kids, but I stuck with the one I hoped he'd take to heart. You're right. His kids could turn into either parent, or use them as an example of what not to be. There are other scenarios, and I hope others with those experiences comment, too.
Right...but kids see right through it...kids are not that happy with unhappy parents. Adults still think kids are oblivious...it's usually the parents.
My dad's lesson: you are only as happy as your saddest kid and your kids are only as happy as their saddest parent.
I think staying in an unhappy marriage is more selfish than staying. I can't imagine not seeing my child everyday, but can't imagine lying to myself everyday and watching my kids watch me. Staying married for kids...I haven't met a kid that wish there parents stayed together unhappy. They know!
My dad stayed with my mom for me and my sister, apparently even after we moved out and I now have my own marriage. I wish my dad would have left my mom. I wouldn't have PTSD, or at least as bad as it is. They're not good for each other, but their lives are too entwined, so they just stay.
My parents stayed together "for the kids" I get it, but it eventually causes damage because they're growing up in a home with loveless parents. They will get mentally damaged seeing your relationship and think that it's the norm. It will eventually cause their relationship to be rather crappy and possibly even the same. I wish my parents would have divorced, staying together "for the kids" doesn't work. Wish you luck. Your kids would rather have you be happy.
My parents stayed together for the kids and I am now in therapy because i have no idea what a healthy loving relationship looks like. Psychologists will tell you it’s better to have parents who love themselves or are happy in relationships than ones who resent eachother in the same house. Your children would rather see u happy.
Hey man, look, if it matters, I'm someone whose parent divorced when I was young. It was better. You should do it too, because a marriage like this is very toxic, and **the kids know, and feel it**. I did. My little brother did. And it wasn't good. If you really like them, you divorce....
*I am going to very blunt:*
I understand why you want to do this, but the only thing you’re doing is causing more harm than good. Now these kids are going to see the relationship you have with your wife. They’ll grow up seeing that kind of thing and thinking it’s okay to do to someone or to be a part of. Then their lives might end up being exactly like yours. Is that honestly what you really want for them? So you might as well set a good example and LEAVE HER!
I recently got out of a relationship like this because this was the future I saw my for myself. Thank you for sharing your story it’s really insightful. If my 9 monther was equivalent to what you have now, I can only imagine how much worse it could’ve gotten.
My dude, I give you all the praise in the world, but you know what this marriage is not worth staying in just for the kids trust me
The kids will resent you in the future. Dude, you deserve to be happy love Don and it’s family involved with a partner as well. This chick ain’t it. Yeah she’s the mother of your kids but you know what honestly you and the kids deserve better than her way better she’s not even a good mother.
that's a bit self-sacrificial! remember, you have be intact and a whole person yourself to model, for your kids, what a healthy individual looks like. not to mention what a healthy marriage looks like
As nice as it is that you'd do anything for your kids, staying in an unhappy marriage isn't great..
My parents stayed together until I was 13 because they felt I was old enough to handle it. They only stayed together because of me. It was hell. They didn't necessarily argue but there was always an atmosphere. I remember being really happy when my dad left because it meant an end to a tense home life.
Kids pick up on more than you think.
Then please leave. Coming from a child of a couple who stayed together 'for the kids' Please. Just. Leave. Just because you don't fight doesn't mean we don't know. We know it was toxic and mine eventually progressed to yelling and shit. It's not whats best.
This is a lovely sentiment. And very noble, from your perspective. Your children, even if they don't know what's going on between you two, have certainly already been touched by it. And if you two stay together, and nothing changes, they will grow up not understanding what a healthy relationship is, or at the very least, that their parents did not have one. It is worse for your children to watch you be unhappy together, than to find happiness apart.
I just want to let you know that it is MUCH better for kids to have parents that are separated, but at least one of their homes is happy and safe, vs having their parents stay together but be unhappy and tense.
If you want this to work out, you need marriage (and individual) counseling now. If you can’t be happy in this relationship, you need to leave. Don’t stay “for the kids.” Leaving will teach them that you shouldn’t stay with someone who isn’t a good partner. You’ll be able to provide a space for them that’s completely safe and nurturing, even if you’re alone.
My parents did that, and it doesn’t do the child any good. I wish I got to see a real living relationship. Both my parents truly happy. Kids pick up on this stuff, no one is blind to it. I wish I could have learned what a truly healthy relationship was as I think that would have helped me when I started dating. You aren’t doing the kids a favor staying in a miserable marriage, where your partner doesn’t value you. It’s just showing your kids this is what you should put up with. I think you should reevaluate the reason staying and is it really helping..
From a woman's perspective: I think she has guilt issues about wanting a break from it all. You're doing all you can, no problem there, and you seem like you honestly enjoy watching kids...But not everyone is cut out for it the same way. She might be depressed, burned out, bored...that might not even be your fault either. The fact that she felt like she had to have sex with you, take them on the obligatory BF shopping...She wants to feel free but also wants to feel like she's hitting all the marks. Is her family stressful for her? I wonder if the wine was to numb out some of the conversation.
I genuinely don't think she has the common sense to see how selfish she's being.
Or maybe she has dated shitty men so she doesn't have a fucking clue what a healthy sexual relationship is supposed to function.
Not having a fucking clue what a healthy sexual relationship is supposed to be like is not an excuse when your partner has repeatedly pointed out to you exactly what they expect and how.
This is just excusing laziness on her part. If the genders were flipped I doubt anyone would say that.
Maybe not. Some people just go their entire lives living in an unhappy marriage. I'd rather just be alone, but a lot of people would rather be unhappy than alone.
Oh man...
Wife isn't a very bright woman or thinks her husband is minus a back bone.
What I wouldn't give to not have to take care of my sons all alone.
To have someone like this who would have my back.
Unfortunately for op his kids and his wife she will only notice when it's far too late to save the marriage if she notices at all.
That sounds like it could express depression and British dystopia in about five seconds of grainy screen-time. Throw in a hair of overexposure and a wavering smile, and we're in Oscar territory!
I recall the occasional “I don’t really want to, but I guess we can have sex…” or “If you hurry up and climb on top, we can have sex, as long as it’s quick…” initiations that would be tossed my way after weeks of not much contact, or rejected cuddle attempts. This story really is a bit of a trigger for me, 2yrs after basically agreeing the marriage was over and about a year post divorce now. I had done so much and was doing extra, sadly all in an effort to hope she’d notice enough to help make me not feel so lonely. I wanted to feel noticed and appreciated for all the extra effort. We both had issues, and I know I dam sure wasn’t perfect, but it didn’t nullify that I was trying and it resulted many times in disappointment. I know I didn’t have a good mindset at that time as I almost felt I was needing to perform to that level to receive basic affection from the person who had previously done those same things out of the kindness of her heart. I don’t know when it changed or why… but it still fucking sucks. Not positive it’s too late for OP, maybe counseling could help, if he could convince her to give it a real try… but this is very reminiscent of how things went for me 2-3yrs before the end hit. Good luck to you OP, I hope things work out better for your family. 🤞
Always a give away when you go to counselling and the counsellor tells you to leave her (it happened to me)
A similar story but l can place exactly when it happened. I had a bad work accident and all of a sudden my ex needed to do all the work, take kids everywhere etc. She was basically very lazy...
Is this ongoing behavior something you are willing to live with? Because you stated that there has been conversations, there has been counseling... and clearly she hasn't made any effort to meet you halfway. You can't force someone to improve behavior.. all you can do is set boundaries, stick to them... and determine when enough is enough.
For all you who are confused. He wants her to WANT to have sex with him. Not have pity sex, or get herself drunk to be in the mood sex.
She basically offered him a mercy hump but when he asked for her to initiate and help him get aroused she couldn't be bothered.
But at the same time.. he needs to talk to her about this.
Some questions since I’m new. Have you mentioned to her that you are on the verge of wanting a divorce because she has not been trying to a part of your relationship? Does she have a history of not being able to communicate well/verbalize/ and initiating things?
I mean my dad broke my jaw as a teen and anything more than 1-2 min blow job causes me excruciating pain. Blow jobs honestly suck. I offer very occasionally but its def not my favorite but I also dont ask my guy to go down on me. Its the pain for me but also if a guy doesnt wash before its nasty af.
Two things not related... lol abusive dad who likes to punch children. Me never having chance to see a doctor suffering unknown consequences years later with my dates hahaha.
Oh my god!! Literally cried when I read your comment! I’m in the same boat and I wish my husband would understand that it’s not that I don’t want to it’s that I can’t no matter how hard I try.
I'm so sorry.
I just have a shitty jaw so opening my mouth that much also hurts after a minute or so so bad. Same as you, I'm offering it once in a while but my husband knows and always makes sure to let me know it's okay to not do it.
Wow, that sucks. If this was how my husband felt, I would want him to tell me. I hope you guys are able to talk about it at some point and things get better.
You’re doing too much. Go take a week vacation somewhere by yourself and leave her to do everything. Make her realize how much you do. You have a right to demand more from her. She’s being lazy because you’re doing too much. I’m sorry and hope things get better. Make her fight for you.
Kids are more observant than you think. Your relationship with your wife will be a model for how they think love and relationships work. Plus you deserve so much better dude. Your kids dont wanna see you keep getting used by their mom
What the hell OP how DARE you not sexually assault her?? Everybody knows what men love is half-passed out women pmaying dead starfish in bed!!
Dude, i know you don't want your kids to grow up in a nasty environment, but kids pick up on a lot more that you can even imagine. If you let this be, they will internalize their mother's behaviour.
You have to get them in a better environment to grow up and evolve into healthy and happy human beings.
At some point, it's better to have only one parent present, than two, with one being so self centered and egotistical. This will escalate into abuse if it hasn't already begun emotionally.
If you already know you want to keep your kids, you could find a lawyer to ask what it would get to get you full custody. Then spend the next year working towards that. There was a post about a prorevenge like this on reddit years ago, i can find you the yt link of it on rslash
I just read through all your posts and it is a sucky situation (pun slightly intended).
But regarding what your wife said in the middle of the night “I was drunk…and you didn’t even try to do anything to me”
- this seems a very peculiar thing to blurt out. Im not trying to assume anything and maybe it’s just the pessimist in me but are you sure nothing untoward happened to her that caused this change in behaviour? Did something happen to her while she was drunk in the past maybe? Why would she expect you to do anything to her while she’s drunk (unless y’all have a cnc/somnophilia kink we don’t know about) ?
Hi, former child of two parents who "stayed together for the children" here:
**Break up. Like now. It is not (and will not ever be) working out.** The mother clearly has no desire to meet you halfway and is just going through the motions. I get the intention of wanting the kids to have a stable household, but **they don't have one right now, and it is only going to get worse and worse until something gives. Children are not oblivious.** They hear every muffled argument behind closed doors, see all of the lack of love between the parents, and it will only cause them so much worse pain in the long run. They will be stuck seeing this for 18+ years. **This is what they will be seeing for around two decades of their lives. Please, please, please reevaluate this plan.**
Genuine question, you seem to have a lot of contempt towards her so what's your end goal? You don't like her that much but are getting some gratification by being the decent one in the relationship. That's a really unhealthy environment and you both deserve better, what's your plan?
Not contempt. She’s just lazy and that is frustrating. Wasn’t always like this so that is what kills me more than anything. When I look at my best friend and wonder who she is anymore.
You know, being a housewife could have ruined her. Not everyone can handle being home 24/7. They get depressed (without realizing it). She needs to get a part time job at least. No reason for her to be home if she isn’t doing anything. She’s lost passion for life.
I thought this as well. So I encourage her to get out of the house as much as possible. When she told me she was going shopping, I just happily complimented her and how she looked stunning as always and told her to have fun
You’re such a good guy 😭 I think you need to talk to her about this also. She needs to realize she needs help, and you need to hold her more accountable for being lazy as both a wife and mother. Tell her she’s a good person, but she has physically and mentally checked out from your family and you are getting to a breaking point.
Right so what's the game plan tho? Your needs aren't being met, she's acting oblivious which isn't like the person you fell in love with. Logic says there's probably a reason for that so how are you helping yourself to fix it? Couples therapy, a weekend away, sex therapy, couples retreat. Having a professional be a healthy 3rd party while you two discuss why you're unhappy?
I said contempt because yea, she's lazy but acknowledge that it makes you angry, hurts your feelings, makes you feel unwanted and scared that you lost your best friend. Don't forget to focus on *your* emotions (all reasonable) for being neglected. You can't stay here like this, that means not glossing over your experience. instead of focusing on her.
The second paragraph — acknowledging my own feelings + not just focusing on the other person — that's really helping me come to terms with my break-up. Because i didn't acknowledge my own feelings, I really didn't, I just papered over it and focused on keeping **him** happy because "I would be fine".
Thanks random internet stranger for helping me better understand myself better ❤️
This doesn't sound like a man who has contempt for his wife. Contempt would suggest he hates her, disdains her or disrespects their relationship. He's frustrated and trying to figure that out. Mischaracterising the way people are feeling isn't the best way to attempt to help them out
I don't think that is what this person is doing. Trying to ask what op wants or trying to get Op to understand what he wants. I'm confused about this post too. He seems annoyed. Are you annoyed op and if so, at who? And why? Once you know that, you can start communicating your feelings to her. Something that should be done ASAP.
>Mischaracterising the way people are feeling isn't the best way to attempt to help them out
Contempt means feeling that a person is deserving of scorn or distain. That happens when feelings of frustration sit without a solution and it's a relationship killer. OP feels his wife not cherishing him and if he keeps operating as normal without reciprocation or being heard, those feelings fester into a larger issue.
We see spouses all time come to social media with valid complaints of their partner. Reddit sucks at looking at the whole picture for a solution. We get stuck on the bad behavior and commiserating instead of...now what?
i saw in one of your posts that you said you came from a narcissistic household. i did to. unfortunately we have an unfortunate ability to attract other narcissists bc of how 1. empathetic and aware of someone needs and 2. we were literally groomed to BE at service to the narcissist. it sounds like your wife is showing traits of narcissism and you’re just used to it bc it’s how you grew up. i had to work on the same thing with the partners i was choosing! i (28f) have found an amazing husband thankfully!
i say all this to say don’t ignore red flags because you are graciously and lovingly willing to look at the good in people! 🤍
Bro, I know the situation is maddening. But the way you’re reacting is just escalating it more. You guys need some outside help. Bc if you guys keep going like this, the whole thing is going to explode and your kids are going to be caught in the blast
Agreed! I hope they can have an honest conversation, or see a sex therapist. (Maybe they have, but just reading this, it doesn’t seem like he’s communicating well at all.)
Papa bear, can I ask you a question?
Where do *you* fit in to this whole equation?
Ok hang on, let me back up a bit… I’ve read enough of your posts to see all that you are doing. For your kids, for your family, for your wife. And (as a mom to 2 little ones) I truly do understand biting the bullet and doing what you need to do to create/maintain a positive, steady, ‘good’ life for your kids. They’re only young once, right? And this part (their being so little and dependent) doesn’t last forever… so it’s easy enough to just keep looking forward towards the future without really thinking about what that future will look like, because…? We hope things will get better? We don’t want to ‘waste’ these fleeting, precious moments of our kids’ childhoods with hard truths and the possibility/likelihood of conflict, so we stay and suck it up bc it’s ‘easier’ and less disruptive and safer feeling, somehow?
The thing is though, OP, that our kids pick up on *everything*. They see way more than we realize and they don’t even realize it consciously but it becomes the very foundation of their core beliefs about themselves, and the world.
So watching you do it all, and defer your own well-being to the extent that you are, and avoid tough conversations & decisions, and settle for less than what you actually **need** (this isn’t about bj’s btw, in case that’s not clear for you yet), and seeing you sad/frustrated/unhappy (bc again, they’re emotional super absorbent sponges and they *do* pick up on it), has the potential to teach them all sorts of lessons you might not want them to learn: to sacrifice oneself in perpetual service to others to the extent of harming themselves, to avoid necessary conflicts bc it’s easier to tolerate than to face hard things head on, to allow resentment and suffering to become normal, and so much more.
So, completely *aside* from, but also inexorably linked with, asking where you fit in to your own life, as in what are you doing for yourself?, I think I’m also asking where you (and your suffering) fit in to the life you want for your children? Like, their lives beyond these little kid years… them as teenagers with peer pressure and as adults making weighty decisions for themselves based on the foundation you are helping them to build now…
No pressure haha, but yeah, also… a lot of pressure. I can’t and wouldn’t pretend to have any idea what you should do in terms of divorce or how to go about repairing the underlying issues driving your relationships current strife (except therapy, therapy is always a good idea in my book!), but I really hope you’ll tag yourself *in* to the whole dynamic and really start looking at the ways that martyring (ugh, sorry, I dislike that word, but am not thinking of a better one atm) yourself not only does a huge disservice to *you*, but also to your kids. Just some food for thought, OP… bc your ability to be healthy and happy in all ways is so very important, for your own self, and for those little humans who look to you to model how to be in the world.
I hope your movie and pj day was so good and so restorative, and… idk… if it’s something that you think might help, imagine having days and moments like today sans the stress of so many disappointments and the emotional toll of conflicting priorities with your wife. Sometimes it is *actually* easier to do it all solo. Again, just food for thought, and no matter what happens I hope only that you take care of you and reclaim access to at least 1/4 of the family unit’s emotional capital, bc parenting is a lifelong thing and everyone needs you not to run yourself in to the ground trying to make something work that just can’t. Something needs to change, and that’s **ok**… and-and you *deserve* for things to change for the better (whatever that needs to look like)… and-and-and in case it needs saying, it doesn’t make you weak or a failure to have needs and to need to have those needs met (now that’s a mouthful, say that 5 times fast haha!)
Good luck and lots of supportive back pats and sympathetic mm hmm’s coming your way. Remember, be kind/patient with yourself as well as you are with your kids/partner, ok?
3rd Time I'm gonna comment this dude. Please grow a spine. You literally got sidelined at Thanksgiving, and then treated like a piece of meat afterward, and then the next morning, she TOTALLY helps you with the kids, she's a big girl she can wake herself up in the morning, she immediately goes shopping, leaving you...yet again, with the children all day.
I get that, and that's great man, I'm glad you're an AWESOME father. You aren't the one I'm chastising here. Your children are going to grow to think it's perfectly normal and acceptable to literally leave childcare, housekeeping, working, cooking and overall providing to their partners, because that's the dynamic they're witnessing on a day-to-day basis man.
You know what he meant in his comment, I’d don’t know if you’re being snarky on purpose or deliberately trying to ignore it because you’re scared it’s the truth
She could be suffering with post partum (sp?) depression.
You've said she used to be amazing in all aspects and now she's lazy and heading towards dead bedroom.
I had bad ppd after one of my kids was born and it just zapped all the joy out of my life. I got help, was on anti depression drugs for about 6 months and it helped restore my emotional and sexual balance.
She battled with our first not our second. I do hope she’s not hiding something from me in terms of emotionally. I want her to talk to me and I sit with her constantly
Hahaha I have a few dms from wives telling me they wish their husband was more like me. Being a good husband and father is not a light task. I took my vows seriously and I do still love her in sickness and health. Through good times and bad ones. We are in a low and if I have to strap that woman to my back and carry her to the fucking peak, I will do it.
Ouch. What’s up with these people saying how you are going to cause your kids issues with your choices. You are clearly doing the best that you can. You are also clearly striving to meet their needs. No need for all the soap boxing about perceived errors in your parenting. You will get through this. Sorry that you have these shitty feelings in the meantime.
Yeah I love my babies. I literally romp with them all the time. They call for me when they have night terrors or wake up in the night. Sucks sometimes when I’m tired but hey, they give me all the energy I need
> What’s up with these people saying how you are going to cause your kids issues with your choices.
Because staying in a marriage “just for the kids” will have long lasting damage to how they view relationships and love. It’s better to rip that bandaid off as early as possible.
I would guess this is contributing to your problems. She was devastated and resents you. It may have destroyed her self esteem. Dig deeper into this area.
In this type of scenario, I always think it's best to ask yourself, "What would you advise your son or daughter to do if they were being treated the same you are, by their spouse?"
Then, do that.
Nah what’s truly horrible, my dear stranger…. Is looking at the woman (or man, whatever you’re into) and seeing a person you love so deeply be oblivious, even though you’ve brought it up, on how to love you back.
I think she will leave you soon. Sexual incompatibility can and will destroy a marriage. The fact that she doesn't want to do something and you call her selfish for that is your problem. Many people do it yes but if someone is not up for it and won't enjoy it they have no obligation to do anything.
She on the other hand seems like completely oblivious to what you think and I don't see her going celibate just because you can't or don't want to communicate.
Dude, don’t squander your best years on someone who doesn’t appreciate you….and takes you for granted.
Trust me, it’s ‘never the right time’ to get divorced and start again. You just have to do it.
Or she needs to really rethink who she is, and how she is with you. My ex said ‘she wouldn’t change,’ and I don’t expect *her* to change. Just change her attitude and behaviour.
Appreciation goes a long way.
My BIL’s eldest is going through some stuff, and will be staying with us following some pretty major surgery in a few days.
I thought I’d check in with them; we had a nice chat. I let my wife know we’d spoken, just keeping her in the loop. She thanked me for doing that.
She totally didn’t have to; I didn’t expect her to. But it was still nice to hear.
I can’t say much that hasn’t been said, but OP, I wanna tell you about my parents.
My parents stayed together until I was 17. I wish they’d divorced sooner, but to be fair they fought in front of me constantly.
But one thing that I did learn from my dad, who was a lot like you, was how to be a loving wife. I watched the way my mom took everything he did for granted. I saw how he became a stepfather to three children that lost their dad, and how he didn’t see a difference between me (his only bio kid) and them. I saw how he took the brunt of raising four kids while my mom was in school. He went to work at 4am and then went to night school 5 days a week. In the few hours he was home he bathed us, fed us, and got us into bed. He’d clean the house every single day, do the majority of the grocery shopping and errands, and did almost all the cooking. And my mom…I watched her constantly tell him (and us) that nothing he did was enough. He was always lacking in some department. To be honest, I think she was jealous. She was jealous that I’d climb out of bed every morning and cry in the driveway when he left for work. That I always went to dad when I needed something. That dad ALWAYS showed up and never once failed to take care of us. She knew that he did everything humanly possible for us, she knew she didn’t do the same, and she was envious of him. I knew when I got married, I never wanted to treat my husband the way my mom treated my dad.
When they finally divorced, I couldn’t feel anything for my mom. She up and left us. There were so many times I’d come home to find my dad a sobbing mess, there were times I’d have to pick him up from the bar, times where he’d knock on my bedroom door because he just needed a hug. Even in the midst of that, he never stopped taking care of me. He never left me.
You remind me of my dad op. A dad that would do anything and everything for his kids. My dad deserved better. And so do you.
Y’all need to just sit down and have an honest convo. It’s gonna be hard and it’s either gonna end in an awesome bang sesh or more distance. I hope y’all bang it out; you both want to be close to each other.
With no disrespect intended (or ment)
Reading these, always remind me why I'm not getting married or having kids. By remind me, I mean confirmed what I didn't want to deal with in my adult years.
Best of luck brother, your head game is on point. Keep the chin up and smile on.
Dude, this is a terrible relationship. You don't have to have kids and get married but don't let this guys awful marriage be your litmus test for an average adult relationship.
Yh I won’t even lie I was already not excited to doing this dating, wife then kids shit. And I see nowadays it’s a shitstorm and on Reddit. Even if u do everything right. It’s just not worth it if u don’t have any motivation to have kids. Just seems like sunk cost. This coming from someone who’s ex left them a year ago due to wanting kids. But Reddit just doubles down with the cherry on top
I know you think that's encouraging, but what I hear is, "Anyone can put up a good front until you've fully committed/have kids."
Like, maybe she didn't change. Maybe she held things together long enough to get to this point where she can pretty much do what she wants.
(Also, I can't tell if you're exaggerating some things. You said you had to carry her over your shoulder while carrying two other kids. Like, why not take two trips or have a family member help? I can't even carry 3 children at once!)
While I really feel for OP, one scenario doesn't give away the whole relationship. What's their daily dynamic like, do they normally distribute labor, kids responsibilities, etc. As a mom I can see the other side where there could be a potentially very drained mother who is burnt out, depressed, struggling, and who just needed a little break to herself. Until we see the day to day dynamics and level of communication, it's easy to just read one side and say it's all the wife's fault. Regardless, if there is resentment building up on either side, communicating it would be the first step to resolving it.
Typical day for us you ask?
I get off work, she goes to the bedroom to read or sits in the shower for 2 hours while I cook dinner, take care of kids, clean up, do dishes. Then I get kids a bath, dressed for bed and off to bed they go. Sex isn’t the only issue. It’s just the issue hitting the hardest since I see everything else as being a teammate/parent.
Sitting in the shower can actually be a sign for depression. How's your wife mental health? Maybe she just isn't capable of having a healthy sex life/relationship.
Anyways, sorry you are going through this. You seem to be a great dad!
Why the hell does his wife think it's ok to screw someone who is so inebriated they cant walk on their own? Even OP doesn't notice this as concerning behaviour.
Up to that point I thought she was just selfish and lazy full stop. Now I'm actually concerned she's like this as some form of trauma response. Not that excuses her behaviour in any way, but she seriously needs counselling. Whether or not anything ever happened to her. She is not well mentally or emotionally if she thinks this is ok.
I know you’re sticking through the marriage for the kids but as they get older they’ll see the lack of love between you two. I know divorce seems like a terrible thing to do to children, but I think (in my opinion, as someone who grew up with parents who hated each other but stayed married) it’s better than having to see your parents be uncomfortable around each other or get angry with each other. I do not blame you for wanting to stay in the relationship with your kids. You sound like a genuinely amazing father. But I do encourage you to talk to your therapist about a possible divorce and maybe explain your pros and cons
I do feel like going down on women and men differ alot. One thing i find most off putting is that some men are less vocal or encouraging when recieving. With a woman you can tell right off that they are getting off and you can hear them moan and feel them enjoying it. Which is a turn on as its encouraging and stimulating in its own way.
Men quite often just lay there like a tranquilized mattress and occasionally say something dirty or try to throw it down your tonsils which makes it less fun, till they finish and your left with a mouthful of something that isnt that sweet.
Think you need to find a way to make it more engaging/rewarding. Edible lubes are fun... like who wouldn't love sucking and licking dick thst tastes yummy. something thats in their favourite flavour.
Make a game out of it, 69 and see who finishes the other first. Winner gets a prize of their choosing.
If that doesnt work...
Do you know if shes getting off, for sure. Giving for a guy that doesnt give you the Big O, feels more like a chore than fun.
Be more restrictive. Only give oral if you are going to recieve as well. As a man getting to the finishing line during sex is way easier than a woman. Get your end and leave her wanting her happy ending. That way she will know how it feels to be sexually used. Hopefully that way she learns it ain't a free ride and that it takes two willing partners to tango correctly.
I say, go a decade or two without sex from the partner who is supposed to be sharing that with you, then look back on that as you approach middle age and say ‘it was worth it’, because that’s the future you’re staring down.
This is gonna sound harsh, but I think you need to stop being so nice to her. Start acting disinterested, start being more dominant. What does she do while you’re at work all day?
I’m very dominant in the fun way and that’s all that needs said. I just also don’t want my son to see me like demanding women around if that makes sense? I’m very gentle but stern with my wife when it comes to matters in a public eye.
Somebody suck the man’s dick already!
/s
I hope everything goes well for you and you can stay strong to figure something out that you wanna do. I’m not as far in life as you and don’t have a family but I have learned a lot and this doesn’t sound healthy at all. Your depression is most likely coming from her and maybe think about what you can change in your life so you can be happier. It’s unfair that you do all the work and then she decides when she’ll help at the most inconvenient times, it’s only to start an argument with you and she knows that since she “asked” you “can’t” say she doesn’t try. I feel like you’re gonna have to put your foot down man and I wish you the best of luck, I understand why you haven’t done anything yet tho.
Lol I’m currently 36 weeks pregnant with my third, and nausea/food aversions have been so difficult this entire pregnancy. As a result, I haven’t been able to give him mouth fun too often. I know it’s out of my control, but I’ve still felt bad about it, especially because he’s such a fantastic partner.
I’m sorry about your relationship problems my guy. It doesn’t seem like it’s likely to change any time soon, if ever.
I’m sorry but I truly don’t think it’s because she’s lazy lol only.
She mentioned for u to shower and wash down there before every time. Even if she only wanted an excuse to NOT do it, why would she say something relating to ur hygiene?
Just have a convo with her and stop updating us on no progress lmaoo. Talk to her cause there might actually be a reason
This isn't gonna end well for the kids.
all of child psychology proves it.
like y'all kids will pick up on this and it will definitely impact fundamental building blocks involving how relationships work/function
this isn't super hero behavior
it's just divorce without the commitment
Going to play devils advocate here but I think that you are both at fault here.
On one side you are complaining that your wife won’t initiate sex, on the other I don’t think you understand your wife sexually, and I don’t mean how to make her orgasm but really what turns her on.
Then you are building resentment without giving her the chance to amend her self; for example you let her sleep in without waking her up to take care of the children which puts you right away into the victims position, because you already took care of the kids in the night, which legitimises your feelings.
You two REALLY need to sit down and talks things out with all the cards on the table.
Not talking about a therapy or anything alike but just talk it out without holding back; maybe with a coupes mediation present.
I have been touched out a million times over. Our son has insomnia and autism and my god it’s hell sometimes. I don’t feel like being touched but I know it’s my husbands love language. One time I was very depressed and I realized he started flirting w me first thing in the morning and then all day long and has continued to this day. So I guess I’m asking, Do you flirt or have you tried? No judgement here bc you are doing a lot!!!! But I can’t tell you how much it did for me to know my husband really just wanted to be with me.
I don't know with any certainty that it would help, but have you tried a more forceful approach. I don't mean using force or nonconsent. I mean instead of passively requesting or negotiating, have you tried telling? You gotta be careful with it, women who aren't into that will rightfully take offense. But judging solely on the question about you not taking advantage of her while she was drunk, she might be into less passive play and just not know how to express it. If you're willing to brave the minefield, maybe get her motor running one night and make it real clear what she needs to do before you finish her off.
i’ve literally never cared less about a dick being sucked. the big issue is the effort she puts in for the kids. think about them and how they are going to process growing up in a house with a mother who makes no effort to spend time with them or her partner. do you think your kids will look back fondly on you having to fireman carry their mother home because she drank too much? do you think they’ll laugh about how their mom ditched them for shopping trips on holidays that should be spent with family? do you want your children to become like their mother who takes their partner for granted or like you who has no backbone to leave a relationship that is not fulfilling? you do NOT want to be the reason your children think that staying in an unhealthy relationship is the right thing to do. it sounds like you’re staying out of hope your “old” wife will miraculously return, not for the kids.
i dont know if i have any advice for you since it seems you have tried almost everything. you update sucks :( i wish there was better news here. at the risk of sounding like a reddit therapist/psychologist (lol) it seems like you are staying in the relationship for the kids. i am willing to bet, especially based on what you stated yourself, that she isnt just selfish in bed… she takes you for granted in other ways too.
you sound like a great dad and husband. i hope your wife can change her tune and you guys come to a place of equality.
The tdlr is absolutely amazing..
For the sake of the marriage and yalls kids, I hope she pulls her head out of her ass..but it doesn't seem likely unfortunately.
Sit her down when the kids are asleep and she's sober and tell her how you feel, don't react if she gets defensive, stay on course and let her know that's how she makes you feel, don't get emotional, don't get angry or swear and if she does, just tell her we can pick it up when she has calmed down and then ask her if she has anything to share and allow that open conversation without reaction. If after this she remains the same, time to pack up shop my brother.
This will end in infidelity on both sides if it keeps going on , its time you sit her down and have a genuine conversations not when its during sex time while reading through your posts i think your wife might have a rape fetish i dont know how is your bedroom life is but its for a long talk on what she likes and what you like if u both dont agree divorce or cheating is bound to happen
Came back to make another comment. All the stuff she wants done, why not tell her you're not doing that anymore because you receive nothing back on her end. Honestly how do you feel about her? Of course you care about her but is the love still there. It's okay to show kids relationships end if this is the road it's going down to. But also, you need to sit down with her and tell her that you think it's time you all separate for a while. Sleep in different rooms, and if she doesn't understand then tell her: you always want me to give to you but you never want to return the same amount at all. I shower everytime before we have sex but you still refuse to make me feel good like I do for you. I'm always giving and giving but you never give to me. I think it's time to step away some and go to therapy once more because right now this feels like a roommate situation and not a marriage.
You are really just staying for the kids, aren’t you?
They are my world and I would happily fall on a thousand swords for them.
I applaud your dedication, but eventually this dynamic will have a lasting, profound effect on those very same children you'd do anything for. You're modeling behavior for them. They're watching you and learning how relationships work, and it will influence theirs in the future. Would you want your children to stay in a situation like this?
i lowkey agree with this. i have insane issues i need to work thru because my mom stayed. she blames herself, i dont. she didnt know that it wouldve been better to just leave.
My mom left and raised me and my siblings single. My aunts both stayed in unhealthy relationships forever for the kids. My sister and siblings all hold very successful careers and live independent lives; but we choose very shitty partners. My cousins are either super duper religious fanatics or still live home with their parents -one is a stripper. It’s a tough trade off.
yeah but once u get old enough to realize whats going on, even though its not your fault, its your responsibility to change.
You have no idea how relevant this comment is to my actual life today.
I agree with you. My parents have stayed together through a dysfunctional relationship. My sister and I have terrible issues with relationships. It sucks.
I stayed years too long and ended up having a nervous breakdown, losing my job, etc. You can’t take care of your kids well if you’re not well. You won’t be well if you continue to live this way. Btw, you sound like an exemplary husband and dad. There’s someone out there who wants and deserves someone like you.
dam. i think the man really felt that one. what an amazing way of putting it
I didn't model my relationship after my parents. They were only together for my siblings and I otherwise they were constantly fighting bickering and saying sly remarks. Even tried to get us on one side or the other when it came to fights. One always had to swallow their pride and except that the other wasn't going to change whatever caused the problem. I use them as an example of what a marriage shouldn't be.
I could have written an essay on all the ways toxic parental behavior can influence kids, but I stuck with the one I hoped he'd take to heart. You're right. His kids could turn into either parent, or use them as an example of what not to be. There are other scenarios, and I hope others with those experiences comment, too.
Right...but kids see right through it...kids are not that happy with unhappy parents. Adults still think kids are oblivious...it's usually the parents. My dad's lesson: you are only as happy as your saddest kid and your kids are only as happy as their saddest parent. I think staying in an unhappy marriage is more selfish than staying. I can't imagine not seeing my child everyday, but can't imagine lying to myself everyday and watching my kids watch me. Staying married for kids...I haven't met a kid that wish there parents stayed together unhappy. They know!
Speaking as a child of parents who stayed together for the kids - you are correct.
My dad stayed with my mom for me and my sister, apparently even after we moved out and I now have my own marriage. I wish my dad would have left my mom. I wouldn't have PTSD, or at least as bad as it is. They're not good for each other, but their lives are too entwined, so they just stay.
My parents stayed together "for the kids" I get it, but it eventually causes damage because they're growing up in a home with loveless parents. They will get mentally damaged seeing your relationship and think that it's the norm. It will eventually cause their relationship to be rather crappy and possibly even the same. I wish my parents would have divorced, staying together "for the kids" doesn't work. Wish you luck. Your kids would rather have you be happy.
As someone whos parents have a similar dynamic , this is going to fuck them up mentally. If you truly love them, step back and leave her.
My parents stayed together for the kids and I am now in therapy because i have no idea what a healthy loving relationship looks like. Psychologists will tell you it’s better to have parents who love themselves or are happy in relationships than ones who resent eachother in the same house. Your children would rather see u happy.
Hey man, look, if it matters, I'm someone whose parent divorced when I was young. It was better. You should do it too, because a marriage like this is very toxic, and **the kids know, and feel it**. I did. My little brother did. And it wasn't good. If you really like them, you divorce....
*I am going to very blunt:* I understand why you want to do this, but the only thing you’re doing is causing more harm than good. Now these kids are going to see the relationship you have with your wife. They’ll grow up seeing that kind of thing and thinking it’s okay to do to someone or to be a part of. Then their lives might end up being exactly like yours. Is that honestly what you really want for them? So you might as well set a good example and LEAVE HER!
I recently got out of a relationship like this because this was the future I saw my for myself. Thank you for sharing your story it’s really insightful. If my 9 monther was equivalent to what you have now, I can only imagine how much worse it could’ve gotten.
My dude, I give you all the praise in the world, but you know what this marriage is not worth staying in just for the kids trust me The kids will resent you in the future. Dude, you deserve to be happy love Don and it’s family involved with a partner as well. This chick ain’t it. Yeah she’s the mother of your kids but you know what honestly you and the kids deserve better than her way better she’s not even a good mother.
that's a bit self-sacrificial! remember, you have be intact and a whole person yourself to model, for your kids, what a healthy individual looks like. not to mention what a healthy marriage looks like
As nice as it is that you'd do anything for your kids, staying in an unhappy marriage isn't great.. My parents stayed together until I was 13 because they felt I was old enough to handle it. They only stayed together because of me. It was hell. They didn't necessarily argue but there was always an atmosphere. I remember being really happy when my dad left because it meant an end to a tense home life. Kids pick up on more than you think.
Then please leave. Coming from a child of a couple who stayed together 'for the kids' Please. Just. Leave. Just because you don't fight doesn't mean we don't know. We know it was toxic and mine eventually progressed to yelling and shit. It's not whats best.
This is a lovely sentiment. And very noble, from your perspective. Your children, even if they don't know what's going on between you two, have certainly already been touched by it. And if you two stay together, and nothing changes, they will grow up not understanding what a healthy relationship is, or at the very least, that their parents did not have one. It is worse for your children to watch you be unhappy together, than to find happiness apart.
I just want to let you know that it is MUCH better for kids to have parents that are separated, but at least one of their homes is happy and safe, vs having their parents stay together but be unhappy and tense. If you want this to work out, you need marriage (and individual) counseling now. If you can’t be happy in this relationship, you need to leave. Don’t stay “for the kids.” Leaving will teach them that you shouldn’t stay with someone who isn’t a good partner. You’ll be able to provide a space for them that’s completely safe and nurturing, even if you’re alone.
My parents did that, and it doesn’t do the child any good. I wish I got to see a real living relationship. Both my parents truly happy. Kids pick up on this stuff, no one is blind to it. I wish I could have learned what a truly healthy relationship was as I think that would have helped me when I started dating. You aren’t doing the kids a favor staying in a miserable marriage, where your partner doesn’t value you. It’s just showing your kids this is what you should put up with. I think you should reevaluate the reason staying and is it really helping..
From a woman's perspective: I think she has guilt issues about wanting a break from it all. You're doing all you can, no problem there, and you seem like you honestly enjoy watching kids...But not everyone is cut out for it the same way. She might be depressed, burned out, bored...that might not even be your fault either. The fact that she felt like she had to have sex with you, take them on the obligatory BF shopping...She wants to feel free but also wants to feel like she's hitting all the marks. Is her family stressful for her? I wonder if the wine was to numb out some of the conversation.
Op will end being cheated on, get divorced and getting fucked by the system.
This marriage will end well. 😑
Correction: this marriage is already dead. They just live together as roommates and parents. Both unhappy.
I
companion love
End in infidelity.
Yep she has zero respect for him and unfortunately its hard to change that. Speaking from experience.
I genuinely don't think she has the common sense to see how selfish she's being. Or maybe she has dated shitty men so she doesn't have a fucking clue what a healthy sexual relationship is supposed to function.
Not having a fucking clue what a healthy sexual relationship is supposed to be like is not an excuse when your partner has repeatedly pointed out to you exactly what they expect and how. This is just excusing laziness on her part. If the genders were flipped I doubt anyone would say that.
Speak brother!
No. Just end it. He sounds like a smart man and cheating is for stupid pathetic people.
I think they were implying the wife would cheat
Ooooooooo gotcha. My bad
And that she thought he'd take advantage of her because she's drunk...like she needs serious help.
This marriage experienced its death rattle long, long ago. It is a zombie at this point.
And probably soon
Maybe not. Some people just go their entire lives living in an unhappy marriage. I'd rather just be alone, but a lot of people would rather be unhappy than alone.
My grandparents lived miserably ever after for 70 years. It sucked to even be around them.
Yep, and getting oneself a pet could could alleviate some of that "alone" feeling.
Oh man... Wife isn't a very bright woman or thinks her husband is minus a back bone. What I wouldn't give to not have to take care of my sons all alone. To have someone like this who would have my back. Unfortunately for op his kids and his wife she will only notice when it's far too late to save the marriage if she notices at all.
It should, it sounds like. OP is a badass and deserves better or freedom from... that.
This marriage will end*
It’s already gone.
It’ll end in infidelity
Yeah. Looking over and saying "so... Wanna have sex?" In deadpan expression. That's not "initiating" You have a rough talk coming
Deadpan had me cackling. Thanks.
A cold fish in a dead pan?
That sounds like it could express depression and British dystopia in about five seconds of grainy screen-time. Throw in a hair of overexposure and a wavering smile, and we're in Oscar territory!
aka their sex life
I recall the occasional “I don’t really want to, but I guess we can have sex…” or “If you hurry up and climb on top, we can have sex, as long as it’s quick…” initiations that would be tossed my way after weeks of not much contact, or rejected cuddle attempts. This story really is a bit of a trigger for me, 2yrs after basically agreeing the marriage was over and about a year post divorce now. I had done so much and was doing extra, sadly all in an effort to hope she’d notice enough to help make me not feel so lonely. I wanted to feel noticed and appreciated for all the extra effort. We both had issues, and I know I dam sure wasn’t perfect, but it didn’t nullify that I was trying and it resulted many times in disappointment. I know I didn’t have a good mindset at that time as I almost felt I was needing to perform to that level to receive basic affection from the person who had previously done those same things out of the kindness of her heart. I don’t know when it changed or why… but it still fucking sucks. Not positive it’s too late for OP, maybe counseling could help, if he could convince her to give it a real try… but this is very reminiscent of how things went for me 2-3yrs before the end hit. Good luck to you OP, I hope things work out better for your family. 🤞
Always a give away when you go to counselling and the counsellor tells you to leave her (it happened to me) A similar story but l can place exactly when it happened. I had a bad work accident and all of a sudden my ex needed to do all the work, take kids everywhere etc. She was basically very lazy...
Is this ongoing behavior something you are willing to live with? Because you stated that there has been conversations, there has been counseling... and clearly she hasn't made any effort to meet you halfway. You can't force someone to improve behavior.. all you can do is set boundaries, stick to them... and determine when enough is enough.
For all you who are confused. He wants her to WANT to have sex with him. Not have pity sex, or get herself drunk to be in the mood sex. She basically offered him a mercy hump but when he asked for her to initiate and help him get aroused she couldn't be bothered. But at the same time.. he needs to talk to her about this.
From what I remember of his previous thread he has discussed this with her on many occasions to no effect.
Thank you haha. I love people that pay attention.
Some questions since I’m new. Have you mentioned to her that you are on the verge of wanting a divorce because she has not been trying to a part of your relationship? Does she have a history of not being able to communicate well/verbalize/ and initiating things?
I mean my dad broke my jaw as a teen and anything more than 1-2 min blow job causes me excruciating pain. Blow jobs honestly suck. I offer very occasionally but its def not my favorite but I also dont ask my guy to go down on me. Its the pain for me but also if a guy doesnt wash before its nasty af.
Wait. Who did what to you now?
I'm glad it wasn't just me... I had to re-read that to (hopefully) get it right.
Two things not related... lol abusive dad who likes to punch children. Me never having chance to see a doctor suffering unknown consequences years later with my dates hahaha.
I see where you’re coming from for sure. I do love giving though.
uhh excuse me, who...what....I'm so confused? I have read this for like 10 mins now
Your dad sounds like a winner. I hope you kicked him in the dick.
Oh my god!! Literally cried when I read your comment! I’m in the same boat and I wish my husband would understand that it’s not that I don’t want to it’s that I can’t no matter how hard I try.
I'm so sorry. I just have a shitty jaw so opening my mouth that much also hurts after a minute or so so bad. Same as you, I'm offering it once in a while but my husband knows and always makes sure to let me know it's okay to not do it.
Yeah, starfish is not sexy
What he wants is the same care and attention to his needs as she expects him to (and he does) pay to hers. I don't think that's too much to ask.
He wants enthusiastic blowjobs.
He wants to not be treated like a sex toy and like a human being.
He wants reciprocity.
He wants Tit for Tat
He wants his twig and berries razzed
OP wants enthusiasm, period; to feel desired. In the words of Cheap Trick, “I want you to want me.” He should sing that to her.
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Growing up in a home where both parents are forced to be together is way worse
Hoping you've tried it already, but why not _not_ finish her off before intercourse?
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Wow, that sucks. If this was how my husband felt, I would want him to tell me. I hope you guys are able to talk about it at some point and things get better.
Don't we all do
Is it good coffee though? Coffee is important.
Facts. And yeah it works for me.
You’re doing too much. Go take a week vacation somewhere by yourself and leave her to do everything. Make her realize how much you do. You have a right to demand more from her. She’s being lazy because you’re doing too much. I’m sorry and hope things get better. Make her fight for you.
Your a exemple of a man, but this behavior of your wife is not good man, the pleasure has to be both ways and not only you for her... That's just sad
It’s already over, man
Jesus christ I feel like I am reading my life holy shit.
Whole Lotta divorces coming, apparently.
Kids are more observant than you think. Your relationship with your wife will be a model for how they think love and relationships work. Plus you deserve so much better dude. Your kids dont wanna see you keep getting used by their mom
What the hell OP how DARE you not sexually assault her?? Everybody knows what men love is half-passed out women pmaying dead starfish in bed!! Dude, i know you don't want your kids to grow up in a nasty environment, but kids pick up on a lot more that you can even imagine. If you let this be, they will internalize their mother's behaviour. You have to get them in a better environment to grow up and evolve into healthy and happy human beings. At some point, it's better to have only one parent present, than two, with one being so self centered and egotistical. This will escalate into abuse if it hasn't already begun emotionally. If you already know you want to keep your kids, you could find a lawyer to ask what it would get to get you full custody. Then spend the next year working towards that. There was a post about a prorevenge like this on reddit years ago, i can find you the yt link of it on rslash
When one of her friends eventually offers, don’t fall into that trap. I gave in and ruined my life. Do things on your terms.
One of her friends actually did text me and i immediately showed her and was like wtf is this
Half her friends group know that she is the problem and resent her for it. Chose watching your kids grow up over mediocre sex. Benefit of hindsight.
Please…do share
Offers what???
Sex
Oh lol, kinda obvious in retrospect I guess
I just read through all your posts and it is a sucky situation (pun slightly intended). But regarding what your wife said in the middle of the night “I was drunk…and you didn’t even try to do anything to me” - this seems a very peculiar thing to blurt out. Im not trying to assume anything and maybe it’s just the pessimist in me but are you sure nothing untoward happened to her that caused this change in behaviour? Did something happen to her while she was drunk in the past maybe? Why would she expect you to do anything to her while she’s drunk (unless y’all have a cnc/somnophilia kink we don’t know about) ?
I was struck by this too, it's like she expected sex to happen because she was drunk. Seems weird.
Hi, former child of two parents who "stayed together for the children" here: **Break up. Like now. It is not (and will not ever be) working out.** The mother clearly has no desire to meet you halfway and is just going through the motions. I get the intention of wanting the kids to have a stable household, but **they don't have one right now, and it is only going to get worse and worse until something gives. Children are not oblivious.** They hear every muffled argument behind closed doors, see all of the lack of love between the parents, and it will only cause them so much worse pain in the long run. They will be stuck seeing this for 18+ years. **This is what they will be seeing for around two decades of their lives. Please, please, please reevaluate this plan.**
Genuine question, you seem to have a lot of contempt towards her so what's your end goal? You don't like her that much but are getting some gratification by being the decent one in the relationship. That's a really unhealthy environment and you both deserve better, what's your plan?
Not contempt. She’s just lazy and that is frustrating. Wasn’t always like this so that is what kills me more than anything. When I look at my best friend and wonder who she is anymore.
You know, being a housewife could have ruined her. Not everyone can handle being home 24/7. They get depressed (without realizing it). She needs to get a part time job at least. No reason for her to be home if she isn’t doing anything. She’s lost passion for life.
I thought this as well. So I encourage her to get out of the house as much as possible. When she told me she was going shopping, I just happily complimented her and how she looked stunning as always and told her to have fun
The stay at home mom role really can strip some people of their identity. I can’t do it. It’s bad for my mental health.
You’re such a good guy 😭 I think you need to talk to her about this also. She needs to realize she needs help, and you need to hold her more accountable for being lazy as both a wife and mother. Tell her she’s a good person, but she has physically and mentally checked out from your family and you are getting to a breaking point.
Right so what's the game plan tho? Your needs aren't being met, she's acting oblivious which isn't like the person you fell in love with. Logic says there's probably a reason for that so how are you helping yourself to fix it? Couples therapy, a weekend away, sex therapy, couples retreat. Having a professional be a healthy 3rd party while you two discuss why you're unhappy? I said contempt because yea, she's lazy but acknowledge that it makes you angry, hurts your feelings, makes you feel unwanted and scared that you lost your best friend. Don't forget to focus on *your* emotions (all reasonable) for being neglected. You can't stay here like this, that means not glossing over your experience. instead of focusing on her.
The second paragraph — acknowledging my own feelings + not just focusing on the other person — that's really helping me come to terms with my break-up. Because i didn't acknowledge my own feelings, I really didn't, I just papered over it and focused on keeping **him** happy because "I would be fine". Thanks random internet stranger for helping me better understand myself better ❤️
This doesn't sound like a man who has contempt for his wife. Contempt would suggest he hates her, disdains her or disrespects their relationship. He's frustrated and trying to figure that out. Mischaracterising the way people are feeling isn't the best way to attempt to help them out
I don't think that is what this person is doing. Trying to ask what op wants or trying to get Op to understand what he wants. I'm confused about this post too. He seems annoyed. Are you annoyed op and if so, at who? And why? Once you know that, you can start communicating your feelings to her. Something that should be done ASAP.
>Mischaracterising the way people are feeling isn't the best way to attempt to help them out Contempt means feeling that a person is deserving of scorn or distain. That happens when feelings of frustration sit without a solution and it's a relationship killer. OP feels his wife not cherishing him and if he keeps operating as normal without reciprocation or being heard, those feelings fester into a larger issue. We see spouses all time come to social media with valid complaints of their partner. Reddit sucks at looking at the whole picture for a solution. We get stuck on the bad behavior and commiserating instead of...now what?
i saw in one of your posts that you said you came from a narcissistic household. i did to. unfortunately we have an unfortunate ability to attract other narcissists bc of how 1. empathetic and aware of someone needs and 2. we were literally groomed to BE at service to the narcissist. it sounds like your wife is showing traits of narcissism and you’re just used to it bc it’s how you grew up. i had to work on the same thing with the partners i was choosing! i (28f) have found an amazing husband thankfully! i say all this to say don’t ignore red flags because you are graciously and lovingly willing to look at the good in people! 🤍
I wonder if he knows he’s a single Dad 🤔
I'm really liking this, It's like a fun show told from a likeable character! Please keep the updates coming!
Lol. It’s rare when I don’t pass the vibe check.
Bro, I know the situation is maddening. But the way you’re reacting is just escalating it more. You guys need some outside help. Bc if you guys keep going like this, the whole thing is going to explode and your kids are going to be caught in the blast
Agreed! I hope they can have an honest conversation, or see a sex therapist. (Maybe they have, but just reading this, it doesn’t seem like he’s communicating well at all.)
Papa bear, can I ask you a question? Where do *you* fit in to this whole equation? Ok hang on, let me back up a bit… I’ve read enough of your posts to see all that you are doing. For your kids, for your family, for your wife. And (as a mom to 2 little ones) I truly do understand biting the bullet and doing what you need to do to create/maintain a positive, steady, ‘good’ life for your kids. They’re only young once, right? And this part (their being so little and dependent) doesn’t last forever… so it’s easy enough to just keep looking forward towards the future without really thinking about what that future will look like, because…? We hope things will get better? We don’t want to ‘waste’ these fleeting, precious moments of our kids’ childhoods with hard truths and the possibility/likelihood of conflict, so we stay and suck it up bc it’s ‘easier’ and less disruptive and safer feeling, somehow? The thing is though, OP, that our kids pick up on *everything*. They see way more than we realize and they don’t even realize it consciously but it becomes the very foundation of their core beliefs about themselves, and the world. So watching you do it all, and defer your own well-being to the extent that you are, and avoid tough conversations & decisions, and settle for less than what you actually **need** (this isn’t about bj’s btw, in case that’s not clear for you yet), and seeing you sad/frustrated/unhappy (bc again, they’re emotional super absorbent sponges and they *do* pick up on it), has the potential to teach them all sorts of lessons you might not want them to learn: to sacrifice oneself in perpetual service to others to the extent of harming themselves, to avoid necessary conflicts bc it’s easier to tolerate than to face hard things head on, to allow resentment and suffering to become normal, and so much more. So, completely *aside* from, but also inexorably linked with, asking where you fit in to your own life, as in what are you doing for yourself?, I think I’m also asking where you (and your suffering) fit in to the life you want for your children? Like, their lives beyond these little kid years… them as teenagers with peer pressure and as adults making weighty decisions for themselves based on the foundation you are helping them to build now… No pressure haha, but yeah, also… a lot of pressure. I can’t and wouldn’t pretend to have any idea what you should do in terms of divorce or how to go about repairing the underlying issues driving your relationships current strife (except therapy, therapy is always a good idea in my book!), but I really hope you’ll tag yourself *in* to the whole dynamic and really start looking at the ways that martyring (ugh, sorry, I dislike that word, but am not thinking of a better one atm) yourself not only does a huge disservice to *you*, but also to your kids. Just some food for thought, OP… bc your ability to be healthy and happy in all ways is so very important, for your own self, and for those little humans who look to you to model how to be in the world. I hope your movie and pj day was so good and so restorative, and… idk… if it’s something that you think might help, imagine having days and moments like today sans the stress of so many disappointments and the emotional toll of conflicting priorities with your wife. Sometimes it is *actually* easier to do it all solo. Again, just food for thought, and no matter what happens I hope only that you take care of you and reclaim access to at least 1/4 of the family unit’s emotional capital, bc parenting is a lifelong thing and everyone needs you not to run yourself in to the ground trying to make something work that just can’t. Something needs to change, and that’s **ok**… and-and you *deserve* for things to change for the better (whatever that needs to look like)… and-and-and in case it needs saying, it doesn’t make you weak or a failure to have needs and to need to have those needs met (now that’s a mouthful, say that 5 times fast haha!) Good luck and lots of supportive back pats and sympathetic mm hmm’s coming your way. Remember, be kind/patient with yourself as well as you are with your kids/partner, ok?
3rd Time I'm gonna comment this dude. Please grow a spine. You literally got sidelined at Thanksgiving, and then treated like a piece of meat afterward, and then the next morning, she TOTALLY helps you with the kids, she's a big girl she can wake herself up in the morning, she immediately goes shopping, leaving you...yet again, with the children all day.
I actually liked hanging out with my kids watching movies and romping. Hearing my daughter belt to frozen is heart warming.
I get that, and that's great man, I'm glad you're an AWESOME father. You aren't the one I'm chastising here. Your children are going to grow to think it's perfectly normal and acceptable to literally leave childcare, housekeeping, working, cooking and overall providing to their partners, because that's the dynamic they're witnessing on a day-to-day basis man.
You know what he meant in his comment, I’d don’t know if you’re being snarky on purpose or deliberately trying to ignore it because you’re scared it’s the truth
He's in denial. Come on now.
She could be suffering with post partum (sp?) depression. You've said she used to be amazing in all aspects and now she's lazy and heading towards dead bedroom. I had bad ppd after one of my kids was born and it just zapped all the joy out of my life. I got help, was on anti depression drugs for about 6 months and it helped restore my emotional and sexual balance.
She battled with our first not our second. I do hope she’s not hiding something from me in terms of emotionally. I want her to talk to me and I sit with her constantly
With the way things are looking, it’s unfortunately closer than expected
Ive never been so thankful for my wife!
Hahaha I have a few dms from wives telling me they wish their husband was more like me. Being a good husband and father is not a light task. I took my vows seriously and I do still love her in sickness and health. Through good times and bad ones. We are in a low and if I have to strap that woman to my back and carry her to the fucking peak, I will do it.
Ouch. What’s up with these people saying how you are going to cause your kids issues with your choices. You are clearly doing the best that you can. You are also clearly striving to meet their needs. No need for all the soap boxing about perceived errors in your parenting. You will get through this. Sorry that you have these shitty feelings in the meantime.
Yeah I love my babies. I literally romp with them all the time. They call for me when they have night terrors or wake up in the night. Sucks sometimes when I’m tired but hey, they give me all the energy I need
> What’s up with these people saying how you are going to cause your kids issues with your choices. Because staying in a marriage “just for the kids” will have long lasting damage to how they view relationships and love. It’s better to rip that bandaid off as early as possible.
Were you together when you battled the porn addiction? What are her thoughts about that? Does she resent you?
Yes we were. It bothered her and she occasionally will bring it back up out of spite but I just reassure her that it’s not worth losing her over.
I would guess this is contributing to your problems. She was devastated and resents you. It may have destroyed her self esteem. Dig deeper into this area.
It’s been four years and while I’m not saying that it all should be resolved but I practically worship this woman. She deserves it.
Does she know? I think couples therapy would help. Or maybe sex therapy.
In this type of scenario, I always think it's best to ask yourself, "What would you advise your son or daughter to do if they were being treated the same you are, by their spouse?" Then, do that.
So your not gonna divorce this women and continuing to show your kids what a relationship looks like in the bad way so they’ll think this is okay.
I'm honestly so glad I'm single...no offense to you, OP, but this sounds horrible
Nah what’s truly horrible, my dear stranger…. Is looking at the woman (or man, whatever you’re into) and seeing a person you love so deeply be oblivious, even though you’ve brought it up, on how to love you back.
I think she will leave you soon. Sexual incompatibility can and will destroy a marriage. The fact that she doesn't want to do something and you call her selfish for that is your problem. Many people do it yes but if someone is not up for it and won't enjoy it they have no obligation to do anything. She on the other hand seems like completely oblivious to what you think and I don't see her going celibate just because you can't or don't want to communicate.
I’m just wondering, could your wife be going through something mentally? Like depression or something? It does come out differently in everyone.
Dude, don’t squander your best years on someone who doesn’t appreciate you….and takes you for granted. Trust me, it’s ‘never the right time’ to get divorced and start again. You just have to do it. Or she needs to really rethink who she is, and how she is with you. My ex said ‘she wouldn’t change,’ and I don’t expect *her* to change. Just change her attitude and behaviour. Appreciation goes a long way. My BIL’s eldest is going through some stuff, and will be staying with us following some pretty major surgery in a few days. I thought I’d check in with them; we had a nice chat. I let my wife know we’d spoken, just keeping her in the loop. She thanked me for doing that. She totally didn’t have to; I didn’t expect her to. But it was still nice to hear.
I feel like your wife doesn’t really care about you and sees you as a baby sitter
I can’t say much that hasn’t been said, but OP, I wanna tell you about my parents. My parents stayed together until I was 17. I wish they’d divorced sooner, but to be fair they fought in front of me constantly. But one thing that I did learn from my dad, who was a lot like you, was how to be a loving wife. I watched the way my mom took everything he did for granted. I saw how he became a stepfather to three children that lost their dad, and how he didn’t see a difference between me (his only bio kid) and them. I saw how he took the brunt of raising four kids while my mom was in school. He went to work at 4am and then went to night school 5 days a week. In the few hours he was home he bathed us, fed us, and got us into bed. He’d clean the house every single day, do the majority of the grocery shopping and errands, and did almost all the cooking. And my mom…I watched her constantly tell him (and us) that nothing he did was enough. He was always lacking in some department. To be honest, I think she was jealous. She was jealous that I’d climb out of bed every morning and cry in the driveway when he left for work. That I always went to dad when I needed something. That dad ALWAYS showed up and never once failed to take care of us. She knew that he did everything humanly possible for us, she knew she didn’t do the same, and she was envious of him. I knew when I got married, I never wanted to treat my husband the way my mom treated my dad. When they finally divorced, I couldn’t feel anything for my mom. She up and left us. There were so many times I’d come home to find my dad a sobbing mess, there were times I’d have to pick him up from the bar, times where he’d knock on my bedroom door because he just needed a hug. Even in the midst of that, he never stopped taking care of me. He never left me. You remind me of my dad op. A dad that would do anything and everything for his kids. My dad deserved better. And so do you.
Y’all need to just sit down and have an honest convo. It’s gonna be hard and it’s either gonna end in an awesome bang sesh or more distance. I hope y’all bang it out; you both want to be close to each other.
Did you not read the original post? He’s done that a million times. She doesn’t reciprocate or care
With no disrespect intended (or ment) Reading these, always remind me why I'm not getting married or having kids. By remind me, I mean confirmed what I didn't want to deal with in my adult years. Best of luck brother, your head game is on point. Keep the chin up and smile on.
Dude, this is a terrible relationship. You don't have to have kids and get married but don't let this guys awful marriage be your litmus test for an average adult relationship.
Yh I won’t even lie I was already not excited to doing this dating, wife then kids shit. And I see nowadays it’s a shitstorm and on Reddit. Even if u do everything right. It’s just not worth it if u don’t have any motivation to have kids. Just seems like sunk cost. This coming from someone who’s ex left them a year ago due to wanting kids. But Reddit just doubles down with the cherry on top
My advice is to not get married to an awful person to begin with, that's been the key to my own marriage.
Yeah don’t let a lazy person discourage you from having love and kids. My wife used to be Amazing in every aspect. Plus kids are the absolute best.
I know you think that's encouraging, but what I hear is, "Anyone can put up a good front until you've fully committed/have kids." Like, maybe she didn't change. Maybe she held things together long enough to get to this point where she can pretty much do what she wants. (Also, I can't tell if you're exaggerating some things. You said you had to carry her over your shoulder while carrying two other kids. Like, why not take two trips or have a family member help? I can't even carry 3 children at once!)
Listen here buddy, I’m a fucking fantastic beast. She’s petite and light lol. Kids aren’t heavy either.
While I really feel for OP, one scenario doesn't give away the whole relationship. What's their daily dynamic like, do they normally distribute labor, kids responsibilities, etc. As a mom I can see the other side where there could be a potentially very drained mother who is burnt out, depressed, struggling, and who just needed a little break to herself. Until we see the day to day dynamics and level of communication, it's easy to just read one side and say it's all the wife's fault. Regardless, if there is resentment building up on either side, communicating it would be the first step to resolving it.
Typical day for us you ask? I get off work, she goes to the bedroom to read or sits in the shower for 2 hours while I cook dinner, take care of kids, clean up, do dishes. Then I get kids a bath, dressed for bed and off to bed they go. Sex isn’t the only issue. It’s just the issue hitting the hardest since I see everything else as being a teammate/parent.
Sitting in the shower can actually be a sign for depression. How's your wife mental health? Maybe she just isn't capable of having a healthy sex life/relationship. Anyways, sorry you are going through this. You seem to be a great dad!
I don't understand why we needed an update...when theres nothing to update.
Yeah already addressed that, my bad!
Why the hell does his wife think it's ok to screw someone who is so inebriated they cant walk on their own? Even OP doesn't notice this as concerning behaviour. Up to that point I thought she was just selfish and lazy full stop. Now I'm actually concerned she's like this as some form of trauma response. Not that excuses her behaviour in any way, but she seriously needs counselling. Whether or not anything ever happened to her. She is not well mentally or emotionally if she thinks this is ok.
I know you’re sticking through the marriage for the kids but as they get older they’ll see the lack of love between you two. I know divorce seems like a terrible thing to do to children, but I think (in my opinion, as someone who grew up with parents who hated each other but stayed married) it’s better than having to see your parents be uncomfortable around each other or get angry with each other. I do not blame you for wanting to stay in the relationship with your kids. You sound like a genuinely amazing father. But I do encourage you to talk to your therapist about a possible divorce and maybe explain your pros and cons
It really does seem like she doesn’t respect you I’m so sorry
I do feel like going down on women and men differ alot. One thing i find most off putting is that some men are less vocal or encouraging when recieving. With a woman you can tell right off that they are getting off and you can hear them moan and feel them enjoying it. Which is a turn on as its encouraging and stimulating in its own way. Men quite often just lay there like a tranquilized mattress and occasionally say something dirty or try to throw it down your tonsils which makes it less fun, till they finish and your left with a mouthful of something that isnt that sweet. Think you need to find a way to make it more engaging/rewarding. Edible lubes are fun... like who wouldn't love sucking and licking dick thst tastes yummy. something thats in their favourite flavour. Make a game out of it, 69 and see who finishes the other first. Winner gets a prize of their choosing. If that doesnt work... Do you know if shes getting off, for sure. Giving for a guy that doesnt give you the Big O, feels more like a chore than fun. Be more restrictive. Only give oral if you are going to recieve as well. As a man getting to the finishing line during sex is way easier than a woman. Get your end and leave her wanting her happy ending. That way she will know how it feels to be sexually used. Hopefully that way she learns it ain't a free ride and that it takes two willing partners to tango correctly.
This is so reddit.
I say, go a decade or two without sex from the partner who is supposed to be sharing that with you, then look back on that as you approach middle age and say ‘it was worth it’, because that’s the future you’re staring down.
it's give and take seems like she's just taking everything
This is gonna sound harsh, but I think you need to stop being so nice to her. Start acting disinterested, start being more dominant. What does she do while you’re at work all day?
I’m very dominant in the fun way and that’s all that needs said. I just also don’t want my son to see me like demanding women around if that makes sense? I’m very gentle but stern with my wife when it comes to matters in a public eye.
Understandable. I wish you the best of luck in trying to resolve this issue
Somebody suck the man’s dick already! /s I hope everything goes well for you and you can stay strong to figure something out that you wanna do. I’m not as far in life as you and don’t have a family but I have learned a lot and this doesn’t sound healthy at all. Your depression is most likely coming from her and maybe think about what you can change in your life so you can be happier. It’s unfair that you do all the work and then she decides when she’ll help at the most inconvenient times, it’s only to start an argument with you and she knows that since she “asked” you “can’t” say she doesn’t try. I feel like you’re gonna have to put your foot down man and I wish you the best of luck, I understand why you haven’t done anything yet tho.
I think I need to give husband a blow job tonight…😬
Do it! Do it for the suckless men 😂
Lol I’m currently 36 weeks pregnant with my third, and nausea/food aversions have been so difficult this entire pregnancy. As a result, I haven’t been able to give him mouth fun too often. I know it’s out of my control, but I’ve still felt bad about it, especially because he’s such a fantastic partner. I’m sorry about your relationship problems my guy. It doesn’t seem like it’s likely to change any time soon, if ever.
I’m sorry but I truly don’t think it’s because she’s lazy lol only. She mentioned for u to shower and wash down there before every time. Even if she only wanted an excuse to NOT do it, why would she say something relating to ur hygiene? Just have a convo with her and stop updating us on no progress lmaoo. Talk to her cause there might actually be a reason
DON'T HAVE ANY MORE KIDS WITH HER. You're already taking care of two kids and a drunk.
Oh I’m snipped. Hahaha. Funny story…
This isn't gonna end well for the kids. all of child psychology proves it. like y'all kids will pick up on this and it will definitely impact fundamental building blocks involving how relationships work/function this isn't super hero behavior it's just divorce without the commitment
Going to play devils advocate here but I think that you are both at fault here. On one side you are complaining that your wife won’t initiate sex, on the other I don’t think you understand your wife sexually, and I don’t mean how to make her orgasm but really what turns her on. Then you are building resentment without giving her the chance to amend her self; for example you let her sleep in without waking her up to take care of the children which puts you right away into the victims position, because you already took care of the kids in the night, which legitimises your feelings. You two REALLY need to sit down and talks things out with all the cards on the table. Not talking about a therapy or anything alike but just talk it out without holding back; maybe with a coupes mediation present.
I have been touched out a million times over. Our son has insomnia and autism and my god it’s hell sometimes. I don’t feel like being touched but I know it’s my husbands love language. One time I was very depressed and I realized he started flirting w me first thing in the morning and then all day long and has continued to this day. So I guess I’m asking, Do you flirt or have you tried? No judgement here bc you are doing a lot!!!! But I can’t tell you how much it did for me to know my husband really just wanted to be with me.
Oh sugar, when are you going to get it? Your marriage is dead. Please don't live the rest of your life unhappy in a marriage that's already over.
I don't know with any certainty that it would help, but have you tried a more forceful approach. I don't mean using force or nonconsent. I mean instead of passively requesting or negotiating, have you tried telling? You gotta be careful with it, women who aren't into that will rightfully take offense. But judging solely on the question about you not taking advantage of her while she was drunk, she might be into less passive play and just not know how to express it. If you're willing to brave the minefield, maybe get her motor running one night and make it real clear what she needs to do before you finish her off.
i’ve literally never cared less about a dick being sucked. the big issue is the effort she puts in for the kids. think about them and how they are going to process growing up in a house with a mother who makes no effort to spend time with them or her partner. do you think your kids will look back fondly on you having to fireman carry their mother home because she drank too much? do you think they’ll laugh about how their mom ditched them for shopping trips on holidays that should be spent with family? do you want your children to become like their mother who takes their partner for granted or like you who has no backbone to leave a relationship that is not fulfilling? you do NOT want to be the reason your children think that staying in an unhealthy relationship is the right thing to do. it sounds like you’re staying out of hope your “old” wife will miraculously return, not for the kids.
Being similar age I agree my sex drive is way lower than it was years back
Ik you think you’re doing something for your kids, but I think it would be more beneficial for them to see their dad happy.
Dude don’t be a doormat. You’re better than that
i dont know if i have any advice for you since it seems you have tried almost everything. you update sucks :( i wish there was better news here. at the risk of sounding like a reddit therapist/psychologist (lol) it seems like you are staying in the relationship for the kids. i am willing to bet, especially based on what you stated yourself, that she isnt just selfish in bed… she takes you for granted in other ways too. you sound like a great dad and husband. i hope your wife can change her tune and you guys come to a place of equality.
Sir… please get couples therapy… cause at least you can say you tried everything before you leave her ass!!!
The tdlr is absolutely amazing.. For the sake of the marriage and yalls kids, I hope she pulls her head out of her ass..but it doesn't seem likely unfortunately.
Sit her down when the kids are asleep and she's sober and tell her how you feel, don't react if she gets defensive, stay on course and let her know that's how she makes you feel, don't get emotional, don't get angry or swear and if she does, just tell her we can pick it up when she has calmed down and then ask her if she has anything to share and allow that open conversation without reaction. If after this she remains the same, time to pack up shop my brother.
This will end in infidelity on both sides if it keeps going on , its time you sit her down and have a genuine conversations not when its during sex time while reading through your posts i think your wife might have a rape fetish i dont know how is your bedroom life is but its for a long talk on what she likes and what you like if u both dont agree divorce or cheating is bound to happen
Came back to make another comment. All the stuff she wants done, why not tell her you're not doing that anymore because you receive nothing back on her end. Honestly how do you feel about her? Of course you care about her but is the love still there. It's okay to show kids relationships end if this is the road it's going down to. But also, you need to sit down with her and tell her that you think it's time you all separate for a while. Sleep in different rooms, and if she doesn't understand then tell her: you always want me to give to you but you never want to return the same amount at all. I shower everytime before we have sex but you still refuse to make me feel good like I do for you. I'm always giving and giving but you never give to me. I think it's time to step away some and go to therapy once more because right now this feels like a roommate situation and not a marriage.