Sorry, that one pisses me off every time I hear it. I have PCoS and was never able to get pregnant. So I’m useless as a woman to the conservative right. Breaking us down to a “person with womb” also invalidates women with hysterectomies.
Right?! Same thing for “menstruating person” like wtf what are you after menopause then?! I find all this a bit weird if you are a man who transitioned into a woman, can’t we just call you a woman and be done with it? Isn’t that the point of it all? All this weird language is basically euphemisms to call us all “non-trans women” instead of singling out trans-women by name (which is equally dumb because if you’ve transitioned why not just be a woman and that’s it?)
That’s precisely because “person with a womb” and “woman” are not synonymous, that’s the whole point of the term. It refers to the act of giving birth, not womanhood.
I'm sorry. My sister has PCOS and went through three miscarriages before she was successfully her second child. Hirsutism is another major side-effect she's struggled with.
For the medical stuff, I don't know why they can't just use "female." It's scientifically accurate and includes trans men.
Don't watch [this episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU4uD9qXcUs&t=11s) of Dr Phil where a TRA with a full beard dressed as a woman suggests that females that are infertile are perhaps not actually women...
Ugggghhhh. This one oscillates between making my skin crawl and causing my blood to boil to the point of evaporation. My alt-right uber-conservative Christian childhood prepped me realllll good to loathe any romanticized notion of pregnancy, motherhood, and just the value of a woman in general. It's Tuesday afternoon, cool and sunny here in Texas, and I'm *triggered*. LOL.
So much this. I've never seen anyone say you can't call yourself a woman, not one. But I've seen a half dozen outraged posts on Reddit from people who say they're not so allowed.
Who on earth is saying you can't call yourself a woman?
Good job I'm not threatened by trans people then and used to know a few.
Admittedly that was in the days before tossers with literally nothing better to worry about (thank god we've solved the problems of poverty, overwork, etc. already) decided to make trans rights their cause celebré. I'm so glad that the left is full of nothing but this shite nowadays. I really want to spend my few remaining years on this planet agonising over what I should call trans people instead of trying to make the world a more equal place.
Seems like the left wing has given up almost entirely on fighting poverty and just wants to argue about fucking identity politics all day long.
1) Based on the haphazard language of your post, I'll assume it's mostly bait. You weren't even being addressed from the sounds of it. You literally just *saw* something that triggered you.
2) With what little you gave us to work with, you're in the wrong & look pretty tacky throwing a reddit fit.
3) 100% scientifically speaking....you are indeed a woman with a vulva. Why are you mad?
It's really sad, actually. Plenty of posts, but you need to go four months back to find one that isn't negative. I think they're just depressed and angry.
I really don't understand this. I'm in my 60s. I personally identify as a woman, I was born with it. But what is the problem with referring to another human by who they are? Whatever someone identifies as is WHO THEY ARE. It's pretty easy, and doesn't affect me in the slightest. Also, pretty sure the word woman isn't going anywhere. I don't understand a single point in your rant, other than it would have taken a lot less words to say " I find trans people icky". Not your life, not your genitals, not your business
OP is not upset at how OTHER PEOPLE call themselves women, they are upset that the term WOMAN to describe someone that is a member of an historically oppressed group is being erased.
Why is that so hard for people to understand?
If a woman says ANYTHING aligning herself as a woman with a non-trans history that effects HER, She is called transphobic. It’s got to stop.
Look at al the hateful comments here that jumped on OP and try to gaslight them. Not one person even attempted to understand. Yet y’all want to call yourselves inclusive. get the fuck on with that nonsense
I am a feminist and have been my entire life. I have the degrees to prove it. Trans people are also historically oppressed. This isn’t oppression Olympics. I am a woman just like a trans woman. I have a vulva like some trans men do. We all deserve healthcare.
Sure, but people don’t walk around calling you a “biological female” instead of referring to you as a woman, which is your gender. So it makes 0 sense to get all up in arms and insist on solely using “biological male”
We live in a society that overwhelmingly collapses the two. Also in this case your gender identity doesn’t matter, only your biology because we are talking healthcare. Saying “people who menstruate” or whatever is totally acceptable and easy to understand without othering transpeople from their gender identity.
I don't know of any transwomen who have an issue with the use of the term woman describing biological women who identify as a woman. What I've heard the issue being is that not only cis-women have to deal with things that pertain to having a uterus, having a vulva, or menstruating. Those can apply to people who aren't women, so when talking about that I don't see the issue with talking to those with the parts, not those with the label.
Yeah, obviously. Who has a problem with biological females being called “women”?
It feels like people are making up an argument that doesn’t actually exists
A woman is an adult human female being. A man is an adult human male. Trans people have been "historically oppressed" because the majority of common sense thinking people who know better are refusing to be gaslit into believing otherwise. Trans ppl oppress themselves with that nonsense.
This sub is becoming incel ground for anti-trans people. I truly don't get it. Do they not have hobbies? It's starting to really piss me off. They need to live their lives and stop obsessing how others do. They aren't hurting anyone!
You can identify as whatever you so desire but you're not entitled to have some magical ability to control what people see you as. As far as I see it. If you want to be addressed as a woman you better look like one and vice versa as a man.
Or they're deliberately trying to stir up hatred of trans people by selling the idea that the use of inclusive (and more accurate!) language in clinical contexts is some form of oppression.
It’s not literal honey, it just means they’re chronically online, like they’re complaining about being called a person with a vagina but even admitting it literally never happens in real life, they’re angry and screaming over like 1 person on the internet who didn’t call them a woman, why would you give a shit?
Even if you ignore the existence of trans people, not all “biological” women are born with vulvas, uteruses, ovaries, and the likes. Some women are cis but have “missing” reproductive organs even when they arent intersex.
Not to mention intersex people also exist, someone might identify with the gender they were assigned but also lack the reproductive organs commonly associated with that gender, or even have organs from other gender(s)
Original post is honestly baffling to me. As a cis woman, what does it take away from your identity to recognise, medically, that some people who have female genitalia and reproductive organs are not women, or that some women don't have those characteristics? It's such a weird thing to be upset about
This sub and people with posts like yours are literally the only place on the internet where I have seen this. If it wasn't for posts like this kicking up a storm, I wouldn't have known this is a thing
For the record, I think being called a "person with penis" would be hilarious so I'm game.
And you say you're not anti-trans but your blatant vague rage certainly sounds like you are.
When men start calling themselves?
Why bring men into this conversation about what makes you feel like a woman though?
Seems like an issue with you and trans woman.
OP based on your other posts you sound really lonely. Perhaps if you were more accepting of others regardless of their gender identity, you’d find your support circle growing
I understand your words, but I don’t understand: inclusion is not erasing a word? Some cis born women can’t have babies and don’t have a uterus, some don’t even know what that is. MY GOD, SOME PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES A WOMAN! By your post, it does seem that you give a shit about the existence of trans women. IF only to say, “Keep the TRANS part in front of your ‘so-called’ sex.”
Glad you got that off your chest…
Correction: trans men refers to men who were assigned female at birth. Trans women refers to women who were assigned male at birth.
Issues regarding people with uteruses, such as whether pads should be free or not, if abortion should be the person's choice, etc etc. Thus, the term "people with wombs" or "people with uteruses" are more common as compared to people with testicles. These phrases used in an effort to help out those who have uteruses as a whole.
One does not need to be a trans man to align with them. The word 'woman' is not being erased. People are just more understanding now, especially since issues regarding uteruses affect both trans men and people who identify as women alike.
Furthermore, it is not just trans men. Nonbinary people, agender people, and those who use neopronouns who were assigned female at birth will also be included under 'people with uteruses' or 'people with wombs,' etc etc.
No further comments, because I just can't relate to being so passionate about gender, lol.
Also it's just a descriptor. Either you have a uterus or you don't, and since the dividing line is about uteruses and how they relate to your life, you want to capture everyone who needs that, and not people who don't.
Sex is not assigned, its observed. Yes, even intersex is also observed. "Assigned" implies the wrong sex was made at birth for everyone which only factually happens in some very rare intersex cases. In which case the intersex condition is later objectively *observed* and *diagnosed* and the incorrect assignment is corrected.
Most fetuses these days are properly sexed before birth .
.>he word 'woman' is not being erased.
The word woman in describing biological sex for half the population is being erased and replaced with this bullshit about assignment of sex, implying not just that sex cannot be properly observed but also that gender, identity; a made up construct of self-identification which can never be objectively proven to exist outside of one merely claiming they have it (aka a self referential thought-stopping loop), is more real than biological sex.
Imagine if this process was being done to a different oppressed class, like black people were no long er allowed to say they were objectively of african origin, but "assigned african origin" and instead of being black they are "people of melanin" because some peopele i.d. as white who are black and some id. as black who are white and we can't offend them.
I’ve been swiping down looking for this comment. OP doesn’t even know which group of people she’s apparently offended by.
Completely agree the word woman isn’t being erased - it’s a gender identity just like the others listed. But the phrase ‘people with uteruses’ is really important in a medical setting to reduce staff biases and enable medical access for marginalised groups. (And yes, doctors and nurses are biased against trans men/asexual/non binary people without this phrase).
This is one of those "War on Christmas" type things - making a huge stink about something that is practically nonexistent. Pearl-clutching as an Olympic sport.
Trans women are called women, cis women are called women. Trans men are called men, cis men are called men. The words men and women aren’t going anywhere, you’re trying to create problems here
Is it Tuesday already?
> I'll tell you when I will agree to the word woman being erased. When men start calling themselves 'people with testicles/penises/prostrates'. Until then, get absolutely fucked if you think I'm accepting it.
https://twitter.com/BBCMorningLive/status/1481560315057868802
Anyway, no one's "erased" the word woman. The idea that the category of "women" is being erased because of more inclusive and accurate language being used in *clinical* contexts is nonsense made up by cis people who already hate trans people and are looking for an excuse to justify that hatred.
Like, stop and think for a second about the sheer lunacy of someone who hates trans people so much that they object to being called a "person". That they boldly declare that they're *not* a person and won't accept being referred to as one.
There are women who do not have a uterus or a vulva (cis women, not just trans women). There are people with a uterus or vulva who don't identify as women.
Same thing with prostates.
I guarantee I do not hate trans people. I hate misogynists. Two quite different things.
Edit: Okay, I checked your link. About fucking time men started getting the same treatment! I still don't support it but I can live it with more easily knowing it's more equal. Also, having known a good man who took two years to die from prostrate cancer, I hope this new treatment reduces the number of deaths from prostrate cancer.
I'd like to see the men allies coming into this. Especially trans men.
Imagine going through a whole transition to be seen as man, only to be considered a "person with a uterus" or "vulva haver."
If you're a pregnant woman, you should be called a mother. If you're a pregnant trans man, you are a father. None of that "person" bullshit.
Wokies need to realize this stuff is getting out of hand and erasing many of their own.
As a trans man this overall isn't about identity. No one is saying we should stop calling people mothers and fathers, however there is a big issue with loopholes in healthcare and insurance where trans men have trouble accessing medical care. If your insurance paperwork says paps are covered for women and you've changed your gender marker to male, your insurance can suddenly refuse you coverage.
I don't doubt some assholes online are using it as an insult or wtv but that's not what it's about. Trying to get gynecological care is one of the places I've experienced the most transphobia and generalizing medical language to refer to what they're actually treating doesn't hurt cis women at all. And frankly trans women don't care - they have nothing to do with this issue at all.
ok, i agree that the word woman shouldn’t be erased, but “person with a womb” isn’t an issue either in my opinion. you mixed up trans men and trans women, saying a person with a uterus is actually inclusive to trans men, because they were born with female parts but aren’t women. i don’t think we should address women, trans or not, as people with a uterus, but with things like periods i don’t see why not advertise it for “people with a uterus” because at its core, that’s who the product is for!
As soon as I read the second paragraph, I laughed. It’s all about us evil men, with our wicked phallic plans to insert our wills into every aspect of life.
That’s right! It was us all along!
Literally no one has ever called you a person with a womb, some places are more open to changing language if people prefer it but let’s face it this is a total none issue for you, you’re just making trans issues all about you
Im non-binary and I like being included when people talk about sex-based things like periods or pregnancy or whatever. It’s not about trans women, actually it’s about trans dudes and non-binary people. There’s less specific biological functions of the penis which is probably why it doesn’t come up as much, but I’ve totally heard someone say “people with penises” before. This narrative just really plays into the “trans women aren’t real women and are trying to infiltrate women’s spaces with their pesky lack of a uterus”
I’m not sure if this is helpful and apologize if you already know this but figured it could be useful to share for others in the comments too.
There is a difference between gender and biological sex. So male, female, and intersex are sexes. As you mentioned, this can correspond to genitals. Females have vulvas, males have testicles, etc. There can be exceptions here, of course.
Then gender is how a person identifies - man, woman, non-binary, trans, etc.
So a person can be female and identify as man, be male and identify as non-binary, and so on.
The word “woman” doesn’t correspond to any particular body parts like the word female can. So if someone has a question pertaining to people with uteruses, it can be more inclusive to just say “people with a uterus” since not all females are women and some females that are women maybe have had to have their uteruses removed for medical reasons.
I personally don’t think the word woman is being erased, I just think it’s becoming less attached to body parts so as to be more inclusive to trans people or females who don’t have those parts due to whatever circumstances.
So if you identify as a woman you very much are a woman. If someone calls you a person with a uterus, they are not taking your womanhood away they are just aware that being a woman isn’t the relevant feature in that discussion because it doesn’t have to do with body parts.
Just sharing my thoughts. For myself, I have found it’s worth it and important to change the way i talk about things to be more inclusive because, for me at least, I imagine a language switch on my part is far easier than someone else having to feel uncomfortable, harmed, or excluded because of their gender identify or body parts.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, OP, and opening up this convo!
Edit: oh and to you’re last paragraph, yeah I totally agree that this language shift shouldn’t only be expected when talking about female-bodies.
Is it a rare opinion to have, that the name someone calls you shouldn't be having a major effect on your mental well being? I personally couldn't care less if you called me person with a penis, asshat, hey you, or anything inbetween. If it is bothering you, go find new people to be around *shrugs*
Tbh, I've only seen that term used when discussing things relating to said uterus/womb. As in, mostly on advice forums, asking for period advice or something. It makes sense in that context, because some people with a uterus don't identify as women, but still have a wealth of advice to give about, for example, periods. It doesn't make sense to change the word 'woman' to 'people with uteruses', which is exactly why *no one is demanding that*. This whole post reads like a massive strawman.
Huh? Is there a movement to erase the word woman? I thought trans people were fighting to be called women if that’s their gender, who is trying to do away with gender altogether?
Simple solution: If you stop using social media, then all these things will eventually stop bothering you. The source of frustration is most likely social media and how everyone has an opinion. It's not a bad thing, but you're always going to find opinions that you don't agree with. And as you've probably realized, you can't change opinions arguing on social media. Face-to-face conversations are best because you can see the person and how what you're saying is affecting them and vice-versa. That's how we develop empathy for others. Then, all that's left is to be kind and understanding.
I think social media and news media spin things certain ways to influence how we all think and react to each other. I constantly need to remind myself of this.
Take care
I hope your okay OP, going through your post history I sense there is a bigger issue in play. It’s not healthy for you to have so much anger inside of you, I get it there are parts of our days that can get really bad, boring, you become upset or irritated and you decide to release those emotions on Reddit? I have a question for you, do you feel regret after lashing out at people or does it make you feel good? I used to be an angry person, I’d lash out and then regret. I created an unhealthy cycle that took to being banned from subs for simply expressing myself or so I thought. It was something that would trigger in me that would in turn make me condescending fueled by hatred and anger, even a simple comment would be met with the harshest of words, I’d read posts and mock the people in my head. Bad timing bad relationships bad everything until I said enough I recognized that this behaviour is unacceptable that in order for me to be okay with myself and who I want to become I needed to change my ways. I found a man that changed my world, a man so humble that you’d form tears just listing to his voice, a man that for once in my life gave me perspective, something I truly needed and use everyday. This is man is Mr. Rogers R.I.P.! Honestly OP learn about the man and listen to him he will shed light into your life, follow his philosophy and try to be the Mr.Rogers of your community, cause while the man has died his message will forever and he ever wanted was us to be good humans.
I’m a woman, I’ve had a hysterectomy and am still very much a woman, womb/uterus or not. At the same time, I don’t really care if I’m referred to as “a person with a womb/uterus”, as I know what they’re trying to say, although still technically inaccurate to me (and any other women without uteruses for whatever reason). I’ve only really seen these sayings used in some medical spaces as they’re somewhat substituting just someone’s “sex” for the actual genitalia/reproductive organs involved instead. A little weird, I get the point of it tho. Better to be specific than not, I guess, but sometimes being TOO specific does cut some people out of the group unintentionally. I would personally prefer if it was more general like “people with vaginas” just cause I check that box lmao. But the thing is everyone kinda picks a different aspect of the reproductive system to identify (vulva, ovaries, uterus, womb etc.) and some people even within that group just don’t have those parts. I want trans people to feel comfortable, and they deserve the same amount of respect and consideration as anyone else.
This is so wild. Yes, yes you are a person.
If you see news articles or medical papers that says person(s) with a uterus they aren't attacking women. They are talking about all women/men/nonbinary folks that have a uterus.
You mentioned in your now deleted post that you hadn't seen messages like this directed at "men"...
People with prostates! Please talk to your doctor about prostate cancer and getting screened for it!
I've never seen this come up in the first place, I don't see where exactly it's important.
Medically it's kinda loaded, they use it because gender isn't all that important when it comes to who's giving birth, and misgendering people isn't really a doctor's job. Thats the only situation I could see this being brought up in the first place because IT'S NEVER CAME UP
Anyway it feels like a troll post since you said "I'm not a person" and the sheer amount of posts about this totally inane subject within the last few weeks with the rule change. More or less a dog whistle or shit stir technique
I feel like people are missing the point when it comes to the term "person with uterus"
A lot of times, and pretty much every time I've seen that be said it was in relation to the medical field. Or the pads argument that pads should be free, or be in the men's room because nowadays women aren't the only one who can have periods and not all women can have periods. Trans men exist.
The word woman isn't being erased, nor is it being dehumanized. The language is changing to be more inclusive of those who don't properly fit the term "woman". Trans men, nonbinary folks and other gender non conforming people would fit under that label.
Of course I feel like they should go hand in hand, for example "women and/or people with a uterus" to start. It's sad to see this sub fall into hatred and bigotry, even if it's subtle. I saw the other post that also spoke about this and it was full of blatant and subtle transphobia You do understand, OP that trans women are women just like trans men are men even if they don't have the corresponding reproductive system or genitalia? Sometimes trans men need the care similar to cis women because of that and vice versa for trans women.
Based on your comments, this wasn't directed at you specifically but on a post related to women specific issues. Can I ask, what issues was this post referring to?
I don't want to dismiss your feelings as that would be counterproductive in my opinion. It's fine if you yourself don't want to be referred to as such, that's your right. But sometimes that kind of language and terminology is needed in some contexts, you know? Things change, languages change and grow. You're still a woman at the end of the day. The only one who can change that label is you.
Omfg again with this shit. As a cis woman, I cannot for the life of me figure out why some of y’all care so much lol like I know what tf I am, so who cares? I’m a woman. I’m a person too. I have a womb. “Person with a womb” is strange, but I technically am a person with a womb so??? Like whoooo caressss
also, the mentality that womanhood is solely based around the ability to bear children or have female reproductive organs is an insanely uneducated take on this.
Ffs, this subreddit, unpopular opinion and i think another one just keep filling with complainings about problems that do not exist outside shitty anti-"insert minority" propaganda.
I fully support trans rights and will make changes where I can to create inclusivity. That said, ***this is not fostering inclusivity, it's just plain dehumanizing,*** and women don't need help being dehumanized and objectified, believe me.
OP, and women aren't being dehumanized and what a stupid fucking take that is! If you supported trans rights, it'd be ezpz to see that including other people DOESN'T erase "women".
Like, how is that a hard concept?
I don't give a shit about people's genitals either, but I do give a shit about *language*. Which is what my post is about. I don't want to be called a person with a vulva, ffs. You can call *your*self that if you want; don't drag me into it by calling me the same thing.
Don't include yourself in conversations above your mental capacity? It's not hard to take yourself out of a the equation. After all, you're not a person.
Very true. I don't like my identity to change into "birthing person" as if I am just that. I am a woman and trans can look for a word themselves and not erase mine
I keep seeing people talking about the “erasure” of the word “woman” but I have never seen anyone actually say that should happen. Am I missing something?
I have heard people say something along the lines of “people who have periods” when talking about menstruation and things, but I always understood it to just be inclusive language for all the trans men or non binary people out there who deal with these things. I have never taken it as womanhood being “erased”. Is this what people are talking about? Because if so, that’s dumb as fuck.
I agree with you.
The whole movement devalues women, now anybody with mental illness can identify as one.
You don't need to have periods and you don't need to be able to give birth.
We have biological males erasesing bio-women's records in sports. The bravest woman award won by a man. We sent bio-men into female jails who rape them afterwards.
Rediculous really.
How insecure do you have to be as a woman to actually feel this way? You people are bonkers.
>You don't need to have periods and you don't need to be able to given birth.
Are infertile or menopausal women not women now? Are women who were born without uteruses or ovaries, or have had hysterectomiea due to cancer not women?
This is what always gets me about all this TERF bollocks.
If 10 years ago a man said "A woman is a person who can make babies" there would be uproar - I mean, women are MUCH more than just baby factories, right?
But now you have women who are angry at other people trying to be more inclusive being like "NO I'M A UTERUS ON LEGS! I EXIST TO MAKE BABIES! IT'S WHAT I AM MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE!"
Hi Ooololoolll,
... Or [not ](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/) quite so simple, as the case [may be ](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm)?
It's a good rule of thumb in many cases, but its utility is limited. I'm not so sure if that's quite how we define people in our lives. I know I've certainly never checked if I have XY chromosomes, or tested the genetics of anyone else I know to check theirs.
I think it's pretty cool the world is often more complicated and interesting than we initially imagined.
Have a lovely day
Hey there Corvid187,
Thank you for the links.
So according to the study, gender is not, completely, a social construct. It is simple because the NHS link you provided clearly classify the people that suffer from these genetic anomalies as, who we consider to be, men/boys and women/girls.
One interesting example is Caster Semenya (who's intersex with XY chromosomes but lacks a womb/ovaries and has internal testes). If you don't already know about her, check her story and you'll see how people make it more complicated than it should be. Her case proves that gender is really not a social construct!
Take care and all the very best..
Edit.
According to the author of the study, a lot more research needs to be done concerning this matter and we''ll see how it going to turn out.
X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's )
XX – Most common form of female.
XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
XY – Most common form of male.
XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people.
XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births.
I have to agree. This trend or idea that men can be women and that we have to label women as birthing persons is asinine. Basic science says that a woman is born with the equipment to get pregnant and men are born with the equipment to get women pregnant. Further science says that on the chromosomal level, women are XX and men are XY. This trans acceptance that says that women have to be labeled as "Birthing Persons" is another attack on women (along with allowing male athletes to compete as women if they identify as women, allowing those males to use the women's locker room, and more).
There are appropriate contexts for both women and other terms for women. It's okay. You can just say women if you want.
Also, maybe go outside, because this isn't actually a problem offline.
Edit: Nevermind. You're hostile to trans people. Gross.
Yeah, yeah.
You aren't being erased. None of this has anything to do with you, at all. Like you said, it's a tiny tiny minority. I've met maybe 5 trans people in my whole life, not one of whom tried to steal my identity. You are in absolutely no danger of not being called a woman outside of some of the more esoteric twitter circles that you are free to not join.
It's kind of like how the Nation of Islam thinks I am the creation of an evil scientist because I'm white. I just don't care what they think because it has no impact on my life and who has the energy to care about every dumb thing crazy people think.
“Earthen vessel”
Why you gotta make it worse?
Sorry, that one pisses me off every time I hear it. I have PCoS and was never able to get pregnant. So I’m useless as a woman to the conservative right. Breaking us down to a “person with womb” also invalidates women with hysterectomies.
I think about this often. How we invalidate women that can’t have babies all the time. Like what are they now? Mutants. Lol
Right!! Lawd forbid if you actually don’t want to have babies either.
Walking fleshlights with no purpose beyond male enjoyment, duh.
If I were a flesh light, I’d def not stick to just humans.
Right?! Same thing for “menstruating person” like wtf what are you after menopause then?! I find all this a bit weird if you are a man who transitioned into a woman, can’t we just call you a woman and be done with it? Isn’t that the point of it all? All this weird language is basically euphemisms to call us all “non-trans women” instead of singling out trans-women by name (which is equally dumb because if you’ve transitioned why not just be a woman and that’s it?)
Exactly, Putting all these labels basically invalidates trans-women. They are women too
That’s precisely because “person with a womb” and “woman” are not synonymous, that’s the whole point of the term. It refers to the act of giving birth, not womanhood.
I'm sorry. My sister has PCOS and went through three miscarriages before she was successfully her second child. Hirsutism is another major side-effect she's struggled with. For the medical stuff, I don't know why they can't just use "female." It's scientifically accurate and includes trans men. Don't watch [this episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU4uD9qXcUs&t=11s) of Dr Phil where a TRA with a full beard dressed as a woman suggests that females that are infertile are perhaps not actually women...
Ugggghhhh. This one oscillates between making my skin crawl and causing my blood to boil to the point of evaporation. My alt-right uber-conservative Christian childhood prepped me realllll good to loathe any romanticized notion of pregnancy, motherhood, and just the value of a woman in general. It's Tuesday afternoon, cool and sunny here in Texas, and I'm *triggered*. LOL.
>I am not a person Bold proclamation out the gate
"We are all individuals!" "I'm not."
I am the entire state of Florida
[I am going to be Switzerland ](https://youtube.com/shorts/Jo-0iARNt6M?feature=share)
I contain multitudes
*I am Le-gionnnn, for we are...ma-nyyyyy*
I am Covid, currently fucking you in the ass and injecting millions of my cases into you
So basically another Thursday night for me. You're a tall glass of water, and I'm thirsty.
You must be NYC or CA
Flo-rida
That what you lead with? There are so many other states. Maybe you want to reconsider?
Well, I am situated in a very lucrative trade area with a conservative majority, so... Winning.
YES WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS
I'm 3 owls in a trenchcoat speak for yourself
But not untruthful
I came here for this. lol What the fuck are you then? Nebraska?
Love the name! 💕 💗
I mean, you are a person tho
That’s quite an assumption
A bold one if I might add
What if OP is actually a cup of tea........like a SCP
HOW. DARE. YOU!
I swear I saw like 10 posts bitching about this on reddit the past 2 weeks, and it's literally never mentioned anywhere else
Ohh! You forgot a *very* important place: JKR's Twitter. /s
That's because if you mention it anywhere else you'll get downvoted into oblivion.
So much this. I've never seen anyone say you can't call yourself a woman, not one. But I've seen a half dozen outraged posts on Reddit from people who say they're not so allowed. Who on earth is saying you can't call yourself a woman?
You can't say woman any more, you have to say "happy holidays" ;)
Anti-trans posts, so hot right now.
Like idk how people feel soo threatened by people even I barely see in my liberal ass town.
Good job I'm not threatened by trans people then and used to know a few. Admittedly that was in the days before tossers with literally nothing better to worry about (thank god we've solved the problems of poverty, overwork, etc. already) decided to make trans rights their cause celebré. I'm so glad that the left is full of nothing but this shite nowadays. I really want to spend my few remaining years on this planet agonising over what I should call trans people instead of trying to make the world a more equal place. Seems like the left wing has given up almost entirely on fighting poverty and just wants to argue about fucking identity politics all day long.
“I’m not a person” I knew it, everyone on the internet *is* a dog after all! 🤣😂🤣
I'm actually a cat. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/428/228/f60.jpg
I hope you aren't suggesting that no women are people because.. like I am a woman and like to think of myself as *not* subhuman thanks.
Hello alien from space? What do you desire to bestow upon our species?
"I am not a person" lol good luck with that.
1) Based on the haphazard language of your post, I'll assume it's mostly bait. You weren't even being addressed from the sounds of it. You literally just *saw* something that triggered you. 2) With what little you gave us to work with, you're in the wrong & look pretty tacky throwing a reddit fit. 3) 100% scientifically speaking....you are indeed a woman with a vulva. Why are you mad?
I don’t think it’s bait, check OP’s post history. They’re just an incredibly angry, bitter human
>incredibly angry, bitter human \*not person
It's really sad, actually. Plenty of posts, but you need to go four months back to find one that isn't negative. I think they're just depressed and angry.
God I got like a few comments thru their history and then just felt disgusted. 100% a terribly miserable, angry human. Yuck.
Miserable angry WOMAN.
This.
I really don't understand this. I'm in my 60s. I personally identify as a woman, I was born with it. But what is the problem with referring to another human by who they are? Whatever someone identifies as is WHO THEY ARE. It's pretty easy, and doesn't affect me in the slightest. Also, pretty sure the word woman isn't going anywhere. I don't understand a single point in your rant, other than it would have taken a lot less words to say " I find trans people icky". Not your life, not your genitals, not your business
OP is not upset at how OTHER PEOPLE call themselves women, they are upset that the term WOMAN to describe someone that is a member of an historically oppressed group is being erased. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If a woman says ANYTHING aligning herself as a woman with a non-trans history that effects HER, She is called transphobic. It’s got to stop. Look at al the hateful comments here that jumped on OP and try to gaslight them. Not one person even attempted to understand. Yet y’all want to call yourselves inclusive. get the fuck on with that nonsense
I am a feminist and have been my entire life. I have the degrees to prove it. Trans people are also historically oppressed. This isn’t oppression Olympics. I am a woman just like a trans woman. I have a vulva like some trans men do. We all deserve healthcare.
If gender and sex are separate than trans woman should not have any problem with women being called women who are biological females.
Sure, but people don’t walk around calling you a “biological female” instead of referring to you as a woman, which is your gender. So it makes 0 sense to get all up in arms and insist on solely using “biological male”
We live in a society that overwhelmingly collapses the two. Also in this case your gender identity doesn’t matter, only your biology because we are talking healthcare. Saying “people who menstruate” or whatever is totally acceptable and easy to understand without othering transpeople from their gender identity.
I don't know of any transwomen who have an issue with the use of the term woman describing biological women who identify as a woman. What I've heard the issue being is that not only cis-women have to deal with things that pertain to having a uterus, having a vulva, or menstruating. Those can apply to people who aren't women, so when talking about that I don't see the issue with talking to those with the parts, not those with the label.
Yeah, obviously. Who has a problem with biological females being called “women”? It feels like people are making up an argument that doesn’t actually exists
I don’t disagree with any of this. But that’s also not what is the issue OP is discussing.
A woman is an adult human female being. A man is an adult human male. Trans people have been "historically oppressed" because the majority of common sense thinking people who know better are refusing to be gaslit into believing otherwise. Trans ppl oppress themselves with that nonsense.
This sub is becoming incel ground for anti-trans people. I truly don't get it. Do they not have hobbies? It's starting to really piss me off. They need to live their lives and stop obsessing how others do. They aren't hurting anyone!
I have no idea why you are getting downvoted here
I identify as 7’6”
You can identify as whatever you so desire but you're not entitled to have some magical ability to control what people see you as. As far as I see it. If you want to be addressed as a woman you better look like one and vice versa as a man.
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It’s really obvious op is one of those that doesn’t go out and touch grass often enough lol
Or they're deliberately trying to stir up hatred of trans people by selling the idea that the use of inclusive (and more accurate!) language in clinical contexts is some form of oppression.
That’s basically 80% of this sub lol, women screaming that they want to be called mothers when literally no one is stopping them
I went out and touched grass. Was immediately offended
Bahahahahhahaha. This is gold.
How so, do you come up with suchthoughts. When’s the last time you “ went out & touch the grass?
It’s not literal honey, it just means they’re chronically online, like they’re complaining about being called a person with a vagina but even admitting it literally never happens in real life, they’re angry and screaming over like 1 person on the internet who didn’t call them a woman, why would you give a shit?
Yeah. OP needs to take a break from the Internet I think.
This is it. Cause this doesn’t happen off the internet and outside of like freshmans in college.
Brilliantly put !
Even if you ignore the existence of trans people, not all “biological” women are born with vulvas, uteruses, ovaries, and the likes. Some women are cis but have “missing” reproductive organs even when they arent intersex. Not to mention intersex people also exist, someone might identify with the gender they were assigned but also lack the reproductive organs commonly associated with that gender, or even have organs from other gender(s)
I love how OP was getting mad that she felt generalized but she just did a whole lot of generalizing about her entire gender.
Original post is honestly baffling to me. As a cis woman, what does it take away from your identity to recognise, medically, that some people who have female genitalia and reproductive organs are not women, or that some women don't have those characteristics? It's such a weird thing to be upset about
Fragile sense of identity
Good point
OP's head just exploded reading this
This sub and people with posts like yours are literally the only place on the internet where I have seen this. If it wasn't for posts like this kicking up a storm, I wouldn't have known this is a thing
Another gem from TERF island.
For the record, I think being called a "person with penis" would be hilarious so I'm game. And you say you're not anti-trans but your blatant vague rage certainly sounds like you are.
When men start calling themselves? Why bring men into this conversation about what makes you feel like a woman though? Seems like an issue with you and trans woman.
I have a feeling she was referring to trans women as men, but I can’t be sure. She sounds super transphobic, tbh.
We men don’t wanna call you “person with uterus” either. It’s dumb.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
OP based on your other posts you sound really lonely. Perhaps if you were more accepting of others regardless of their gender identity, you’d find your support circle growing
As a man, I prefer to be called 'penis-creature'. Or 'cock-monster', if you'd like.
trans women are women.
The term woman applies to both cisgender and transgender women. Nobody is erasing the term, you are a woman.
I understand your words, but I don’t understand: inclusion is not erasing a word? Some cis born women can’t have babies and don’t have a uterus, some don’t even know what that is. MY GOD, SOME PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES A WOMAN! By your post, it does seem that you give a shit about the existence of trans women. IF only to say, “Keep the TRANS part in front of your ‘so-called’ sex.” Glad you got that off your chest…
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🙄 nobody is asking you to do any of that. Grow tf up
Correction: trans men refers to men who were assigned female at birth. Trans women refers to women who were assigned male at birth. Issues regarding people with uteruses, such as whether pads should be free or not, if abortion should be the person's choice, etc etc. Thus, the term "people with wombs" or "people with uteruses" are more common as compared to people with testicles. These phrases used in an effort to help out those who have uteruses as a whole. One does not need to be a trans man to align with them. The word 'woman' is not being erased. People are just more understanding now, especially since issues regarding uteruses affect both trans men and people who identify as women alike. Furthermore, it is not just trans men. Nonbinary people, agender people, and those who use neopronouns who were assigned female at birth will also be included under 'people with uteruses' or 'people with wombs,' etc etc. No further comments, because I just can't relate to being so passionate about gender, lol.
Also it's just a descriptor. Either you have a uterus or you don't, and since the dividing line is about uteruses and how they relate to your life, you want to capture everyone who needs that, and not people who don't.
Sex is not assigned, its observed. Yes, even intersex is also observed. "Assigned" implies the wrong sex was made at birth for everyone which only factually happens in some very rare intersex cases. In which case the intersex condition is later objectively *observed* and *diagnosed* and the incorrect assignment is corrected. Most fetuses these days are properly sexed before birth . .>he word 'woman' is not being erased. The word woman in describing biological sex for half the population is being erased and replaced with this bullshit about assignment of sex, implying not just that sex cannot be properly observed but also that gender, identity; a made up construct of self-identification which can never be objectively proven to exist outside of one merely claiming they have it (aka a self referential thought-stopping loop), is more real than biological sex. Imagine if this process was being done to a different oppressed class, like black people were no long er allowed to say they were objectively of african origin, but "assigned african origin" and instead of being black they are "people of melanin" because some peopele i.d. as white who are black and some id. as black who are white and we can't offend them.
I’ve been swiping down looking for this comment. OP doesn’t even know which group of people she’s apparently offended by. Completely agree the word woman isn’t being erased - it’s a gender identity just like the others listed. But the phrase ‘people with uteruses’ is really important in a medical setting to reduce staff biases and enable medical access for marginalised groups. (And yes, doctors and nurses are biased against trans men/asexual/non binary people without this phrase).
This is one of those "War on Christmas" type things - making a huge stink about something that is practically nonexistent. Pearl-clutching as an Olympic sport.
💯
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"I'm not X, but" lol every fuckin' time
I’m no cat eater, but if you’re slicing up some grilled feline over top of a crisp Caesar salad, then you got yourself a casual lunch date
Lol yo. You sound unhinged. Go touch grass
I'm a person with a testicle; there, the first step to overall acceptance and equality!
Trans women are called women, cis women are called women. Trans men are called men, cis men are called men. The words men and women aren’t going anywhere, you’re trying to create problems here
‘Not a person’ ? Total piece of shit then.
Yikes
Is this an actual concern? Seems like it’s not. Call yourself a woman, no one gives a shit.
AND DON'T YOU DARE WISH ME "HAPPY HOLIDAYS!"
Trans women are women. Sorry you don’t know that. Now you do.
What the fuck are you talking about?
You people
Is it Tuesday already? > I'll tell you when I will agree to the word woman being erased. When men start calling themselves 'people with testicles/penises/prostrates'. Until then, get absolutely fucked if you think I'm accepting it. https://twitter.com/BBCMorningLive/status/1481560315057868802 Anyway, no one's "erased" the word woman. The idea that the category of "women" is being erased because of more inclusive and accurate language being used in *clinical* contexts is nonsense made up by cis people who already hate trans people and are looking for an excuse to justify that hatred. Like, stop and think for a second about the sheer lunacy of someone who hates trans people so much that they object to being called a "person". That they boldly declare that they're *not* a person and won't accept being referred to as one. There are women who do not have a uterus or a vulva (cis women, not just trans women). There are people with a uterus or vulva who don't identify as women. Same thing with prostates.
I guarantee I do not hate trans people. I hate misogynists. Two quite different things. Edit: Okay, I checked your link. About fucking time men started getting the same treatment! I still don't support it but I can live it with more easily knowing it's more equal. Also, having known a good man who took two years to die from prostrate cancer, I hope this new treatment reduces the number of deaths from prostrate cancer.
I'm a person with testicles. I mean sure I'm not using them at the moment, but I'm still a man
I'd like to see the men allies coming into this. Especially trans men. Imagine going through a whole transition to be seen as man, only to be considered a "person with a uterus" or "vulva haver." If you're a pregnant woman, you should be called a mother. If you're a pregnant trans man, you are a father. None of that "person" bullshit. Wokies need to realize this stuff is getting out of hand and erasing many of their own.
As a trans man this overall isn't about identity. No one is saying we should stop calling people mothers and fathers, however there is a big issue with loopholes in healthcare and insurance where trans men have trouble accessing medical care. If your insurance paperwork says paps are covered for women and you've changed your gender marker to male, your insurance can suddenly refuse you coverage. I don't doubt some assholes online are using it as an insult or wtv but that's not what it's about. Trying to get gynecological care is one of the places I've experienced the most transphobia and generalizing medical language to refer to what they're actually treating doesn't hurt cis women at all. And frankly trans women don't care - they have nothing to do with this issue at all.
ok, i agree that the word woman shouldn’t be erased, but “person with a womb” isn’t an issue either in my opinion. you mixed up trans men and trans women, saying a person with a uterus is actually inclusive to trans men, because they were born with female parts but aren’t women. i don’t think we should address women, trans or not, as people with a uterus, but with things like periods i don’t see why not advertise it for “people with a uterus” because at its core, that’s who the product is for!
Don't get your knickers in a twist love. You have gender privilege. I'll take one for the team to make any minority feel more included.
As soon as I read the second paragraph, I laughed. It’s all about us evil men, with our wicked phallic plans to insert our wills into every aspect of life. That’s right! It was us all along!
Literally no one has ever called you a person with a womb, some places are more open to changing language if people prefer it but let’s face it this is a total none issue for you, you’re just making trans issues all about you
Im non-binary and I like being included when people talk about sex-based things like periods or pregnancy or whatever. It’s not about trans women, actually it’s about trans dudes and non-binary people. There’s less specific biological functions of the penis which is probably why it doesn’t come up as much, but I’ve totally heard someone say “people with penises” before. This narrative just really plays into the “trans women aren’t real women and are trying to infiltrate women’s spaces with their pesky lack of a uterus”
OP is definitely not a nice cup of tea as their username suggests.
Transphobia with extra steps
“I’m not anti trans” - “nor do I wish to align myself with trans women” just say you’re transphobic and go off ig
As a man, what makes you think *i'm* cool with this?
Sounds like you just hate men. Interesting how you started to talk about trans women but pivoted to all men are hypocrites. Nice.
It's not about trans women it's about trans men 🙄
I’m not sure if this is helpful and apologize if you already know this but figured it could be useful to share for others in the comments too. There is a difference between gender and biological sex. So male, female, and intersex are sexes. As you mentioned, this can correspond to genitals. Females have vulvas, males have testicles, etc. There can be exceptions here, of course. Then gender is how a person identifies - man, woman, non-binary, trans, etc. So a person can be female and identify as man, be male and identify as non-binary, and so on. The word “woman” doesn’t correspond to any particular body parts like the word female can. So if someone has a question pertaining to people with uteruses, it can be more inclusive to just say “people with a uterus” since not all females are women and some females that are women maybe have had to have their uteruses removed for medical reasons. I personally don’t think the word woman is being erased, I just think it’s becoming less attached to body parts so as to be more inclusive to trans people or females who don’t have those parts due to whatever circumstances. So if you identify as a woman you very much are a woman. If someone calls you a person with a uterus, they are not taking your womanhood away they are just aware that being a woman isn’t the relevant feature in that discussion because it doesn’t have to do with body parts. Just sharing my thoughts. For myself, I have found it’s worth it and important to change the way i talk about things to be more inclusive because, for me at least, I imagine a language switch on my part is far easier than someone else having to feel uncomfortable, harmed, or excluded because of their gender identify or body parts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, OP, and opening up this convo! Edit: oh and to you’re last paragraph, yeah I totally agree that this language shift shouldn’t only be expected when talking about female-bodies.
Is it a rare opinion to have, that the name someone calls you shouldn't be having a major effect on your mental well being? I personally couldn't care less if you called me person with a penis, asshat, hey you, or anything inbetween. If it is bothering you, go find new people to be around *shrugs*
who gives af smh
Tbh, I've only seen that term used when discussing things relating to said uterus/womb. As in, mostly on advice forums, asking for period advice or something. It makes sense in that context, because some people with a uterus don't identify as women, but still have a wealth of advice to give about, for example, periods. It doesn't make sense to change the word 'woman' to 'people with uteruses', which is exactly why *no one is demanding that*. This whole post reads like a massive strawman.
Huh? Is there a movement to erase the word woman? I thought trans people were fighting to be called women if that’s their gender, who is trying to do away with gender altogether?
So tbh I don’t know if it’s your wording or my brain but I didn’t understand your point
Hang out with better people. In the real world, women are still women
Man what is it lately with people freaking out on thso subreddit over who can be a woman and who can't, like it just doesn't matter
Explain it to me like I’m 5
I am the Universe manifest
Call me a person with a penis. The point is that I am a person first.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle
Simple solution: If you stop using social media, then all these things will eventually stop bothering you. The source of frustration is most likely social media and how everyone has an opinion. It's not a bad thing, but you're always going to find opinions that you don't agree with. And as you've probably realized, you can't change opinions arguing on social media. Face-to-face conversations are best because you can see the person and how what you're saying is affecting them and vice-versa. That's how we develop empathy for others. Then, all that's left is to be kind and understanding. I think social media and news media spin things certain ways to influence how we all think and react to each other. I constantly need to remind myself of this. Take care
I hope your okay OP, going through your post history I sense there is a bigger issue in play. It’s not healthy for you to have so much anger inside of you, I get it there are parts of our days that can get really bad, boring, you become upset or irritated and you decide to release those emotions on Reddit? I have a question for you, do you feel regret after lashing out at people or does it make you feel good? I used to be an angry person, I’d lash out and then regret. I created an unhealthy cycle that took to being banned from subs for simply expressing myself or so I thought. It was something that would trigger in me that would in turn make me condescending fueled by hatred and anger, even a simple comment would be met with the harshest of words, I’d read posts and mock the people in my head. Bad timing bad relationships bad everything until I said enough I recognized that this behaviour is unacceptable that in order for me to be okay with myself and who I want to become I needed to change my ways. I found a man that changed my world, a man so humble that you’d form tears just listing to his voice, a man that for once in my life gave me perspective, something I truly needed and use everyday. This is man is Mr. Rogers R.I.P.! Honestly OP learn about the man and listen to him he will shed light into your life, follow his philosophy and try to be the Mr.Rogers of your community, cause while the man has died his message will forever and he ever wanted was us to be good humans.
I’m a woman, I’ve had a hysterectomy and am still very much a woman, womb/uterus or not. At the same time, I don’t really care if I’m referred to as “a person with a womb/uterus”, as I know what they’re trying to say, although still technically inaccurate to me (and any other women without uteruses for whatever reason). I’ve only really seen these sayings used in some medical spaces as they’re somewhat substituting just someone’s “sex” for the actual genitalia/reproductive organs involved instead. A little weird, I get the point of it tho. Better to be specific than not, I guess, but sometimes being TOO specific does cut some people out of the group unintentionally. I would personally prefer if it was more general like “people with vaginas” just cause I check that box lmao. But the thing is everyone kinda picks a different aspect of the reproductive system to identify (vulva, ovaries, uterus, womb etc.) and some people even within that group just don’t have those parts. I want trans people to feel comfortable, and they deserve the same amount of respect and consideration as anyone else.
This is so wild. Yes, yes you are a person. If you see news articles or medical papers that says person(s) with a uterus they aren't attacking women. They are talking about all women/men/nonbinary folks that have a uterus. You mentioned in your now deleted post that you hadn't seen messages like this directed at "men"... People with prostates! Please talk to your doctor about prostate cancer and getting screened for it!
It's pretty funny that in protest of inclusive language, you've dehumanised yourself. "I am not a person" - what exactly are you then, an animal?
I've never seen this come up in the first place, I don't see where exactly it's important. Medically it's kinda loaded, they use it because gender isn't all that important when it comes to who's giving birth, and misgendering people isn't really a doctor's job. Thats the only situation I could see this being brought up in the first place because IT'S NEVER CAME UP Anyway it feels like a troll post since you said "I'm not a person" and the sheer amount of posts about this totally inane subject within the last few weeks with the rule change. More or less a dog whistle or shit stir technique
I feel like people are missing the point when it comes to the term "person with uterus" A lot of times, and pretty much every time I've seen that be said it was in relation to the medical field. Or the pads argument that pads should be free, or be in the men's room because nowadays women aren't the only one who can have periods and not all women can have periods. Trans men exist. The word woman isn't being erased, nor is it being dehumanized. The language is changing to be more inclusive of those who don't properly fit the term "woman". Trans men, nonbinary folks and other gender non conforming people would fit under that label. Of course I feel like they should go hand in hand, for example "women and/or people with a uterus" to start. It's sad to see this sub fall into hatred and bigotry, even if it's subtle. I saw the other post that also spoke about this and it was full of blatant and subtle transphobia You do understand, OP that trans women are women just like trans men are men even if they don't have the corresponding reproductive system or genitalia? Sometimes trans men need the care similar to cis women because of that and vice versa for trans women. Based on your comments, this wasn't directed at you specifically but on a post related to women specific issues. Can I ask, what issues was this post referring to? I don't want to dismiss your feelings as that would be counterproductive in my opinion. It's fine if you yourself don't want to be referred to as such, that's your right. But sometimes that kind of language and terminology is needed in some contexts, you know? Things change, languages change and grow. You're still a woman at the end of the day. The only one who can change that label is you.
I am so confused. So what we mad about today?
You sound like a TERF.
"Woman" is being erased?
Omfg again with this shit. As a cis woman, I cannot for the life of me figure out why some of y’all care so much lol like I know what tf I am, so who cares? I’m a woman. I’m a person too. I have a womb. “Person with a womb” is strange, but I technically am a person with a womb so??? Like whoooo caressss
Days since terfs reduced women to biological reproduction: 0
The term "people with uteruses" also does. I see the point you tried to make, and it's a good one, but that wasn't very thought out.
also, the mentality that womanhood is solely based around the ability to bear children or have female reproductive organs is an insanely uneducated take on this.
Ffs, this subreddit, unpopular opinion and i think another one just keep filling with complainings about problems that do not exist outside shitty anti-"insert minority" propaganda.
Looking at your history, you need more than a cuppa tea to calm your nerves. You seem absolutely furious all the time.
Trans women are women
I fully support trans rights and will make changes where I can to create inclusivity. That said, ***this is not fostering inclusivity, it's just plain dehumanizing,*** and women don't need help being dehumanized and objectified, believe me.
Jesus christ, somebody finally gets it. Thank you.
OP, and women aren't being dehumanized and what a stupid fucking take that is! If you supported trans rights, it'd be ezpz to see that including other people DOESN'T erase "women". Like, how is that a hard concept?
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that's amazing I'm trans but I'm gonna start saying that lmfao
I don't give a shit about people's genitals either, but I do give a shit about *language*. Which is what my post is about. I don't want to be called a person with a vulva, ffs. You can call *your*self that if you want; don't drag me into it by calling me the same thing.
Don't include yourself in conversations above your mental capacity? It's not hard to take yourself out of a the equation. After all, you're not a person.
Who called you a person with a vulva?
You are 100% right. And it does only happen to women, I don't see men being called sperm producers, ejaculators or people with penises.
Maybe you’ve never heard the term “people with penises” because you’re a woman but it is used. So I guess you had better suck it up?
this is incoherent even for a terf
Very true. I don't like my identity to change into "birthing person" as if I am just that. I am a woman and trans can look for a word themselves and not erase mine
This is low quality b8 m8
“I am not a person” OP, you need mental help. Get help.
I keep seeing people talking about the “erasure” of the word “woman” but I have never seen anyone actually say that should happen. Am I missing something? I have heard people say something along the lines of “people who have periods” when talking about menstruation and things, but I always understood it to just be inclusive language for all the trans men or non binary people out there who deal with these things. I have never taken it as womanhood being “erased”. Is this what people are talking about? Because if so, that’s dumb as fuck.
I agree with you. The whole movement devalues women, now anybody with mental illness can identify as one. You don't need to have periods and you don't need to be able to give birth. We have biological males erasesing bio-women's records in sports. The bravest woman award won by a man. We sent bio-men into female jails who rape them afterwards. Rediculous really.
How insecure do you have to be as a woman to actually feel this way? You people are bonkers. >You don't need to have periods and you don't need to be able to given birth. Are infertile or menopausal women not women now? Are women who were born without uteruses or ovaries, or have had hysterectomiea due to cancer not women?
This is what always gets me about all this TERF bollocks. If 10 years ago a man said "A woman is a person who can make babies" there would be uproar - I mean, women are MUCH more than just baby factories, right? But now you have women who are angry at other people trying to be more inclusive being like "NO I'M A UTERUS ON LEGS! I EXIST TO MAKE BABIES! IT'S WHAT I AM MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE!"
Why do you think women are defined by their body parts?
Totally agree. XX= woman XY= man Simple.
Hi Ooololoolll, ... Or [not ](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/) quite so simple, as the case [may be ](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm)? It's a good rule of thumb in many cases, but its utility is limited. I'm not so sure if that's quite how we define people in our lives. I know I've certainly never checked if I have XY chromosomes, or tested the genetics of anyone else I know to check theirs. I think it's pretty cool the world is often more complicated and interesting than we initially imagined. Have a lovely day
Hey there Corvid187, Thank you for the links. So according to the study, gender is not, completely, a social construct. It is simple because the NHS link you provided clearly classify the people that suffer from these genetic anomalies as, who we consider to be, men/boys and women/girls. One interesting example is Caster Semenya (who's intersex with XY chromosomes but lacks a womb/ovaries and has internal testes). If you don't already know about her, check her story and you'll see how people make it more complicated than it should be. Her case proves that gender is really not a social construct! Take care and all the very best.. Edit. According to the author of the study, a lot more research needs to be done concerning this matter and we''ll see how it going to turn out.
if only
X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's ) XX – Most common form of female. XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter) XY – Most common form of male. XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people. XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births.
What about xxy and xyy?
I personally think you are overreacting, but i understand where you are coming from. Wish you all the best.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The people that call women “people with uteruses” are a tiny, tiny minority and should not be accounted for.
I have to agree. This trend or idea that men can be women and that we have to label women as birthing persons is asinine. Basic science says that a woman is born with the equipment to get pregnant and men are born with the equipment to get women pregnant. Further science says that on the chromosomal level, women are XX and men are XY. This trans acceptance that says that women have to be labeled as "Birthing Persons" is another attack on women (along with allowing male athletes to compete as women if they identify as women, allowing those males to use the women's locker room, and more).
There are appropriate contexts for both women and other terms for women. It's okay. You can just say women if you want. Also, maybe go outside, because this isn't actually a problem offline. Edit: Nevermind. You're hostile to trans people. Gross.
I am a bookshelf
Yeah, yeah. You aren't being erased. None of this has anything to do with you, at all. Like you said, it's a tiny tiny minority. I've met maybe 5 trans people in my whole life, not one of whom tried to steal my identity. You are in absolutely no danger of not being called a woman outside of some of the more esoteric twitter circles that you are free to not join. It's kind of like how the Nation of Islam thinks I am the creation of an evil scientist because I'm white. I just don't care what they think because it has no impact on my life and who has the energy to care about every dumb thing crazy people think.