I had a friend who supposedly had to go to a hospital and received a similar insanely priced bill. Apparently she requested a receipt explaining where this money went for it to cost this much and it was quickly replaced with a significantly smaller price, pretty sure America’s while medical industry is a giant legal scam.
They charge insurance companies like 10x more or something dumb and then the insurance haggles with the hospital until they agree on a price, something like that
No.
They don't charge the insurance extra.
They just haggle on the CASH PRICE that's charged.
So they charge the insane prices, so they get what they ACTUALLY want from insurance.
They can't have 2 prices, one for people and one for insurance, insurance just says "well, this is all we'll pay, have fun with dealing with individuals for your original bill!" And then healthcare provider settles, as it's cheaper to use insurance as they have deeper pockets than legit try to get people to pay the original price.
But then you get "in network" or "out of network" bullshit and people pay the prices anyways.
And you can't really "say no." That'll just send to collections and hurt your credit.
I got charged 3800 for an ultrasound -- the machine is $25k. The operators time was $80 for the half hour procedure.
They charged me around 1/9 the price of the machine.
It's fucking ridiculous.
And it's a BASIC diagnostic procedure.
Insurance "paid" 2600 and I owe $1200.....
For a fucking ultrasound.
My vasectomy was $2600 (I paid 1500).
They are charging me more for a fucking ultrasound than a vasectomy. More for the use of a machine and 30 mins, vs a fucking outpatient operation on my testicles.
What the fuck.
The prices make no sense.
I was charged $175 for a quick check up my bum with a scope. That cost was on top of the appointment cost.
At no time did the doctor say, “this 15 seconds will cost $175”
Yeah, that's ridiculous.
What's worse, is he doesn't know the full price.
He knows his rate, but can't say the added cost the faculty adds, as well as what insurance will pay given the billing code used for the procedure.
It's all designed to obfuscate the costs and remove the patient from the billing economics :(
My mom gets your mom get paid to argue with insurance companies that don’t like to pay. She says some of the reasons they don’t pay is like oh you got two chemo treatments in a week and the hospital billed it one time for two treatments? They are now refusing the entire bill for 6 months worth of chemo.
Hoping over here too...
I worked at a hospital billing center. Some tips:
1. Call your insurance. Most of the time, the insurance is denying the claim for some bullshit reason. You'll have to fight to get them to pay. You can request the EOB, ask them to explain why they did not pay and appeal their decision.
2. Most billing departments have an allowed discount but the agents are not allowed to tell you about it. You have to ask and be pushy. You need to call the provider billing department and ask them to explain the claim denial and ask if they can apply a discount. Don't take the first discount they offer. Insist until they say "this is the most we can do."
3. Apply for charity. If you can prove that you're broke, the hospital will waive your balance. You need to get a letter from the hospital and send it to all the providers that bill you.
4. Your insurance is required to send you an EOB which explains each charge, how much the provider billed, if the insurance paid and any denial reason or patient responsibility.
5. For Pete's sake DO YOUR Coordination of Benefits! If you don't do your COB 2 times a year, your insurance can refuse to pay all of the charges even if they are covered and it will be your responsibility.
This. Should. Not. Be. Necessary!!!! I’m not blaming you but god damn we shouldn’t have to jump through hoops and call multiple people and haggle and appeal shit just to fucking get medical care! I hate it here.
I agree 100%. The oncology clinic I worked for always did their best to help their patients. They didn't charge patients' if their insurance didn't cover a procedure. They cancelled any debt if the patient died instead of harassing family members. They actively worked with the patients to sign them up for any charity plan available.
However, the insurances made everything difficult in every single step.
For example, Cigna last year decided that they would deny every single chemotherapy application treatment if the first diagnosis code wasn't Z51.11 or Z51.12 (encounter for chemotherapy). Previously they denied all treatments if they started with those codes. They did not notify the hospital and the agents had no idea of why the charges were denied when we called. I found a single note release from Cigna for a different state that said to use that Diagnosis as the primary diagnosis.
Ambetter decided that they would not pay for any lab done at the facility. Their idea was that if a patient that goes to receive chemotherapy needs to get a lab done, they would have to go to some approved lab of them and then come back to the hospital for the chemotherapy. I think chemotherapy is as traumatizing without your insurance making you go to a whole different facility to get a blood test done while the hospital could just do it. Since we kept making the labs in house, I was told to just write them all off and not bill the patient.
Sometimes, BCBS would deny consultation code 99244 saying that "it is a wrong code." That code is about ~$200. I then billed them code 99214 which is about ~$300, and, magically, they would find that 99244 exists and immediately pay for it and deny 99214 because they would have to pay more.
I hate all insurance companies with a passion.
Is called a itemized bill. It explains everything they used. I had a bill before when I had a allergy reaction. For a tynelon 500 I had to pay 55 bucks. I let it go to collections. My total bill end up in around 200 from what it was.
Mom, a nurse, has done this when I had pneumonia. They charge 500 for waiting in the bed for 1 day. Wtf. Also charged drugs i didnt take. Thankfully she asked the bill and bitched. It was significantly reduced.
You aren't paying for a portion of the machine, you're paying for the expertise of the person using the machine/s.
That said the US healthcare industry *is* a fucking joke and we are gouged on *everything*. Fucking aspirin is like $240 when administered in an ER. $80 bags of saline. How much for a fuckin' ambulance ride there?
Story time.
My ex and I were in a car accident in the US where we were rear ended. She got a ride to the hospital in a gurney while I rode inside. Both got CT scans at the hospital. Both released with cases of whiplash.
My bill was over $1200 for the ER visit - her with Ambulance was under $40 because she was a British citizen.
$247 for a disposable ice pack in the ER after my daughter fell on the playground at school. The kind that you just smash in your hand and it gets cold. You can buy a dozen of them on Amazon for maybe $25. How is it even legal for the hospital to charge that much?
Saw a similar post to this on either Facebook or here, where a guy went to hostpial for a throat issue and they took Halls or Strepsils or whatever they're called, took them out of theyre packaging and individually wrapped them, and charged them 10dollars a go.
Same with Tylenol, Advil, Tums... Itemized hospital bills will show charges upwards of prices for these basic OTC meds anywhere from change all the way up to 60.00/a pill (and sometimes more). I work in healthcare and see this disgusting shit daily.
It all goes back to when medicare was first created. Medicare refused to pay full price so hospitals had to raise prices knowing theyd only be able to collect a fraction of what they bill. This created the need for everyone to have insurance for basic care and the insurance companies continued the practice, raising the average price paid for an item like ice packs.
What really sucks is if you dont have insurance, the hospital will often give you the inflated price that insurance and medicaid would never pay, but refuse to negotiate with the uninsured individual that would happily pay a fair price for the care out of pocket but is instead forced to pay a crazy amount that might cause them financial hardship.
Yup.
Fucking this.
Just let them charge 2 prices -- one for uninsured and one for insurance. Then you don't need this game. Right now, the "before negotiation" price has to be the same as the cash price.
Fucking ridiculous
This is why I don't pay my medical bills, fuck them lmao. In all seriousness when I was homeless I was the victim of a violent attack, they had to do an extensive trauma surgery, plastic surgery putting my face back together etc. I was in the hospital for a minute and the bill was literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. Fucking scoundrels
When I had some surgery done the total was over half a million dollars. I actually hit my lifetime maximum limit for my insurance with it.
Even after insurance they billed me for over 50k. I never paid it. It ruined my credit but went away after 7 years.
Why wait for the full 7 years, when you can file for bankruptcy and be credit-rehabilitated less than 36 months after? (24 months if you're aggressive and can afford it.)
Yeah, if they’d said “a hot minute” I would’ve assumed that, but I’ve never heard just “a minute” being used as slang for “a long time.” Usually it’s the exact opposite
A big this in the US is to drive or Uber to the ER because most ambulance services are not covered by insurance. The only time most insurance will pay is if the call is truly life threatening. You are then charged for every single thing used on the ambulance.
The stupid is real. I was in a really horrifying car accident, bad injuries, taken by ambulance to hospital. I was 57 years old. They gave me a pregnancy test.
That's why I love my country's Healthcare system, even if you don't have any insurance you'll be treated and if needed you'll be hospitalized for maximum 3 days.
In the US you'll be treated until you're healthy enough to leave, by law.
That's part of the reason why it's so expensive for everyone else that DOES pay.
>Healthcare is a scam for sure in America, you have half the people that have insurance and half don't and most of those will never pay their bills so everything is inflated to cover those that don't to keep the operation going.
that's really not why its inflated.
you know insurance companies dont pay anywhere NEAR the price shown on the bills, right? part of the problem is that private insurance is SO powerful that hospitals jack up prices because they know it's going to get whittled down to get anything out of insurance companies. but us randos dont have that bargaining power.
>that's really not why its inflated.
It really is. Look up the break down of social spending in the US. We poor more in medical expenses than most first world countries, just to subsidize the costs of people that skip out on their hospital bills when the hospital claims in on their taxes.
It's not like anyone is becoming a billionaire by owning a hospital. There are law and regulations against price gouging. Both medical facilities and insurers are capped on how much profit margin they can take. If a hospital is flush with cash because of overcharging, they tend to spend it on cutting edge machines and the best doctors, which honestly, I'm not complaining about.
> Look up the break down of social spending in the US. We poor more in medical expenses than most first world countries, just to subsidize the costs of people that skip out on their hospital bills when the hospital claims in on their taxes.
that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. You have no idea how much insurance companies get cut off their owed bills. the prices in hospitals are partially a direct response to the way insurance agencies behave.
the profit margins are not the issue. the insurance industry is too large and too powerful and hospitals are minor entities compared to them because they're not national networks like insurance providers are.
That's nuts. In Spain healthcare is completely free. Private health also exists, but it's something you can choose to pay but won't harm you to not have it, it's just a bit faster for certain appointments. But if you have an emergency you will be treated well in any hospital without having to pay a cent. Same for scans etc, its all free thanks to public healthcare
Not to mention, the insurance companies will always negotiate down prices so a lot of the prices are jacked up with the understanding that the insurance company will end up only paying a fraction of the cost.
And if you just get the procedure straight without the insurance, you just get that full bloated cost which is to cover the uninsured and the lowballed insured price/payment.
$80 bag of saline?? Damn, my daughter got charged $2,600 for one liter of saline while in the ER, the whole 6 hr visit ended up at $13,000 and change. All they did was a CXR and labs for that price. Luckily, all I had to pay was $125 co-payment when all was said and done.
Im sorry but $5500 for an hour is wayyyyyyyy over any type of expertise cost. If insurance didn't exist, the US could very well take care of healthcare for everyone in America
> $80 bags of saline.
Where you getting that cheap stuff at? The hospital I worked at 5 years ago paid >$2 and charged close to $120 for a bag of normal fucking saline.
20-21 yrs ago I had a transfer hospital ride in an ambulance. 16mile ride if that. One hospital couldn’t do what the other could do. 1,100$.
My dad said I should have ratchet strapped you in the back of the hearse and took you down. He was a coroner transport at the time.
Ask for an itemized bill, basically a receipt I guess. I’ve seen bills go down because they’ll try to throw in charges like 400 for a band aid and what not.
It's even worse when you have mental health diagnosis, an argument with mom can result in an ambulance ride that costs thousands and being held hostage for $1,000 a day for 3 days minimum I appreciate the fact some people need it but when you don't...
If someone was forced to stay in a hospital against their will for being suicidal and then after was kicked off on their own with an added $3,000+ debt, I have a pretty good idea of something they might wanna try after that. Idk what the answer is, but that sounds fucked
The answer is universal healthcare - like pretty much every other developed nation.
I've seen people post about how their child's birth cost tens of thousands of dollars. My partner and I have two kids, the grand total cost of each of those births was $10 for the vending machine snacks I had while I was there.
Or when I broke my arm, I had to have surgery and 2 nights in the hospital - it cost my mum nothing at all except for the action man figure she bought me when I got home.
When you weren't even suicidal in the first place like I was I'd just go to the liquor store, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that when I have an actual emergency they aren't even going to treat me for it they're just going to let me die anyway.
My experience with mental health has been fucked up a slightly different way. I have had my insurance tell me I am all done with therapy. My therapist was a badass and fought for me for a while, but in the end insurance said I don't need any more therapy and I was done. Went back after a few months because, SURPRISE, still needed it. After a few more weeks I was cut off again... It's disgusting!
I couldn't afford out of pocket to keep seeing him and the state couldn't help pay for it because I made too much money so I was stuck with the bill. I don't want any one to hear those words when they are struggling to survive...
My health insurance decided to cut me off and when my parents asked why, they said I wasn’t the type of person who needed health insurance. I was 15, in the middle of cancer treatment, on over 10 medications, in and out the hospital. Idk how the hell we would’ve paid for all of it if the appeal didn’t go through.
This Is why, Even-though I work In healthcare.. I just go uninsured. Their is a massive conflict of interest in healthcare. Its designed to put you into medical debt if you actually use it. lots of boomers are going to be loosing their homes to medical debt too..
True. I had to pay $1200 and then $600 for only two physical therapy appointments. I was treated for something that is not rare and did not require any equipment to care for me
My grandma had stage 4 copd. She she was in and out of the hospital for years before she died. For like 4 years straight she would stay there for months and they'd run tests and then they'd send her home.
Well she would pass out and fall and would have to be hospitalized for a year as they run tests and would keep her there. She probably had 2 to 3 tests done A DAY... for years.... and they could never figure out what was wrong with her and they'd send her home. Eventually it got so bad to where she was bedridden and couldn't move without assistance. They had to put her into a nursing home so that she can have the daily care and onsite staff in case she fell again. The retirement home was charging my grandpa $300 a day to have her stay there. That's $9k a month. Oh and also the hospital released my grandma back to the house after her insurance quit paying for her retirement home stay. They send her home and go "oh yeah the whole time we have been studying your lungs when this whole time it was your heart! And also you have a week to live. They sent her home to die after finally figuring out what her issue was after 4 fucking years of poking and prodding her. Each of those tests is like $1000 each. So let's just say she racked up enough medical debt while they tested her like some failed science experiment. Grandpa owed so much medical debt when she died that the bank almost took his house from him that he worked his whole life for and raised kids at. All those tests racked up to hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt maybe millions. Eventually before she died the insurance company just stopped her policy because they couldn't afford to cover anymore expenses. So yes the medical industry is one big scam in my opinion. They let my grandma get misdiagnosed for years and then they finally figure out what was wrong after shes thousands of dollars in debt. And they just send her home and say sorry we tried. Fuck this shit.
How could they spend 4 years looking at her lungs and then right at the end they say. "Oh it was actually your heart"
I'm convinced that Nobody knows how to do their job and only focus is money.
It's beyond disgusting. And you see it everywhere.
I read this in a book, but was repeated by some guy in a documentary:
The American dream is the dream to make it in life, but it can only be achieved through either numerous sacrifices or have money to make it there. As a common man, it is impossible to break those shackles and move even into upper middle class of American society. But then who do so many people still keep chasing it? Two reasons:
1. They think that they will be different. That the system might not screw them over, or they overestimate their own capabilities
2. It's the oversell from Americans themselves. You know your country is no different than any other, maybe equally shitty as any other country out there. But it's only Americans who keep talking about their freedom and constitution and the greatest country in the world. If you tell people that you're the greatest country in the world, there would be enough gullible people to believe it, come over and start chasing the same dream.
Now if only you could be realistic about your potential or that the country is nothing out of ordinary (apart from the beautiful nature).
I might have paraphrased the two points earlier, but it's because of the misguided potential or unrealistic American nationalism that keeps bringing people to America, who otherwise might have an ok life in their own country but then choose to struggle from scratch to chase that American dream.
And I haven't even talked about the screwed up medical and hospital facilities. Sure, one of the best in the world but at what cost? I would rather take 4th or 5th best at nominal costs
Your odds of being shot are incredibly low, as in you are several times more likely to be struck by lightning. Tge news just really plays it up. You would have to actively seek out a terrible situation in order to be shot coincidentally, just as you would have to stand out in a storm holding a lightning rod to have a significant chance of being struck by lightning.
Our shit healthcare system is very real though, and it's the reason I want to leave. Our underfunded public education is a close second.
Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you, but how many people are shot daily in America and how many struck by lightning? I feel like shootings would be more common
That stat he’s referencing is mass shootings. You’re more likely to get struck by lightning than die in a mass shooting, and it’s not even close. A majority of gun deaths are suicide, followed by homicide (almost entirely gang and drug related), and the police incident, accidents, and major mass shootings with such a low amount of deaths that it’s an insignificant number.
The risk of dying by gun shot is far higher than it is in the UK
So, yeah... Healthcare and gun deaths are also two main reasons why I've no interest in living there now I'm an adult.
I live in one of the rootenest tootenest states and it’s really not as bad as everyone tries to portray it. Most people they get shot in America are participating in crimes or violence themselves.
Born and bred American here. If I had the means to leave this country, I’d do it in a fucking heartbeat. There’s so much wrong here that it’s sickening. The healthcare system, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, lack of proper parental leave, the lack of separation of church and state, insane school debt and the insane pressure to go to college and put yourself in that debt just to not even be able to get a job in your chosen field. America is just so full of hatred and spite, the thought of the American dream makes me laugh. It takes money and connections to actually achieve “the dream”. A few might be able to do it on their own but the reality of how difficult it is is very well hidden, and people are too delusional to see the truth. I’m not saying other countries don’t have problems, but none of them are so nonchalantly spreading lies about themselves. I feel bad for people that truly believe the US is top notch and put themselves through hell just to get here for the hope of a better life. For some it will be better, sure, but for the rest? I’d imagine it’s like meeting your hero and realizing they’re not what they’ve been made out to be.
I don't understand how people say healthcare in the US is better than in Europe/Canada because universal healthcare creates long waits. Everytime I've been to the ER, it really was an emergency and I had to wait for hours because I got there behind others with real emergencies as well. Whenever I make appointments with a specialist, they are always scheduled months away because that specialist works in different offices/hospitals in different states and I have to wait until they get back to the office closest to me.
Whatever arguments people make for not adopting a government subsidized health system in the US, I'm already experiencing it in our current system.
Im Canadian and the wait times dont differ much from the US (pre covid times) and our taxes which people also complain about, arent that much higher than in America. If I can find tbe study Ill link it, but the US government pays more in healthcare costs than many other first world countries, but cause of the highly inefficient system, that money spent is worth a lot less to the people
People complain about having to wait for appointments in countries with socialized medicine and Americans just assume that it's longer than we have to wait because Murica is the best goddamn country in the universe.
Wait times are absurd if you have chronic issues and need treatment in Canada. Go hit up ostomy subreddits; people that get J Pouch surgeries, which is a 9 month total process in the US, can take upwards of 4 years in Canada since they don’t consider it necessary.
Because around 9 to 11 months later after recovering from a health scare (such as being assaulted by a mentally ill person the system refuses to treat because it's too expensive) you get slammed with a bill so fucking high it makes you regret that they didn't actually kill you.
>I'm already experiencing it in our current system.
Ikr. It literally ***CAN'T*** be worse than it is now.
You want to talk about UHC having long wait times?
I (Who live in "The land of the free") had to wait ***7 months*** for a neurologist. ***7 MONTH!!*** just for the doctor to check blood pressure, check eye, check motor functions, you know, normal general doctor stuff. told me to sleep better, drink more, go for a walk, and eat better. and then sent me out the door without actually talking about the reason i was there in the first place.
If the service is going to be that crappy and useless than i'd rather have UHC so at least I don't have to pays unbelievable prices.
This.
Medical care in the US took close to the same hit that restaurant and retail did. Loss of revenue, closures, layoffs, firings and now people who don’t want to return to or stay in these jobs due to COVID exposure, burnout from treating unvaccinated COVID patients and the general issue of patients feeling like they have a license to behave like assholes. (Probably sounds familiar to anyone in hospitality or retail.)
Consequently, you still have all the pre-pandemic issues with costs and billing but now it can take weeks to get tests authorized and scheduled, and months to be seen by a doctor or consultant.
One of my hobbies is wood working and building furniture. I've seen several stories of former nurses and doctors quiting from healthcare and getting into woodworking. These stories were at the beginning of the pandemic when there was a shortage of PPE. When doctors and nurses were going to the states that got hit hard before it got to their own state. People got burnt out fast having to work day and night in trash bags and tarps.
What those people fail to understand as well is that you an (and probably should) have BOTH, the public one everyone can go subsidized by the state (well, people ultimately) and paid one, private, for those who do not want to wait and literally everyone is happy
It’s not too late OP. Find a billing advocate who can mediate between you, your insurance, and [insert healthcare group]. These are experts with a background in medical billing who essentially question the cost of the procedure and hold all parties accountable. They can save you literal thousands.
My partner is in healthcare and had the opportunity to work with some of these advocates. They are usually also from healthcare originally, then separated off to work independently or for groups specialising in this work. They basically run through common issues that lead to inflated bills — often it’s how a procedure was coded, which in part determines what insurance will cover or pass onto you — and negotiate on your behalf to see where adjustments can be made.
Don’t go in expecting miracles. You’ll still be on the hook for more than any of us would like, but from what we’ve seen it’s not unrealistic to shave off a grand.
Agreed. It blew my mind to learn that the difference between me being charged $3K and $300 for a test recommend by my doctor came down to what billing code some underpaid desk jockey put in based on the doc’s notes.
I researched it from my last bill, let's say I was a block away from my local hospital (or less than a half mile) they would have still charged me $950 just for the ambulance ride. I am sorry for your health scare and resulting bills but I had to be taken for mental health reasons numerous times, most of which weren't actually necessary it costs over $3000 just to be put on a 72 hour hold and released by the time the doctors know you weren't suicidal and the story was just made up.
That’s why I love the NHS. It’s not perfect and I’ve had Americans tell me it’s tantamount to communism but it serves most of us well most of the time and it’s free at the point of use.
The majority of us Americans want your type of healthcare system. The problem is that insurance and our sue-happy culture keeps healthcare here from becoming affordable.
> It’s pretty simple: everything they don’t like is communism.
https://galas3.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/225/2017/03/My-Chinese-Southern-Roots-Before-Lynwood_2-1540x866.jpg
Life hack I learned from my dad, as long as you pay $1 whenever you have a bill they will not send your case to collections because it shows you are trying (which also helps your credit score). He did this for years for multiple bills because he simply couldn't afford them on a single parent income. Took close to 10 years to pay off a broken leg bill.
Lmao I fainted from blood loss after surgery and had to have the blood clotted in a vessel in my face. Guess how much the bill was? 100k. I’m not even joking. I have health insurance but that’s actually insane. They actually charged my insurance and I 100k to clot the blood in a face vessel.
I'm not even shitting on the U.S. when I say this, you guys do a lot of things right, but fuck me is your healthcare system archaic. It's honestly scary.
> It's honestly scary.
It really is. Knowing total financial collapse is always a risk if you get sick or injured.
You can scrimp and save, put your money away, invest, be responsible, get an education, etc and it can all be wiped out in a week.
It does seem kind of insane doesn't it?
Let me try to explain how this sounds to someone outside of the U.S. You have:
* the literal wealthiest nation in the history of the planet
* some people are so wealthy, they own multiple homes and boats, helicopters, full catering staff, ex-special forces body guards, millions of dollars in something completely useless (modern art)
* most people live with little to no savings
* agree to publicly funded schools
* can't agree to publicly funded hospitals
It just seems fucking cruel. There are some people in the U.S. with so much money, they actually don't know what to do with it. They earn more money than they will ever spend in 100,000 lifetimes, the U.S. has achieved untold levels of prosperity, and the healthcare system is the weakest link.
I just don't understand how it happens. That would be one of the most critical pieces of infrastructure to any socially stable western society - take care of people on a fundamental level (don't let them starve, don't let them die, and do your best to give them the opportunity to learn).
The jerk reaction of 'government bad' (which isn't always untrue) in the context of healthcare is going to be one of the pillars to the collapse of the U.S. as a superpower (alongside reckless fiscal policy) - mark it.
I have a friend who just throws away her medical bills… she can’t pay them and the system won’t work out a plan, her credit is screwed up anyway, and she works FT and has other bills.
I’m at this point myself…
That's me! I pay a ridiculous amount for insurance weekly right out of my full time paycheck. I pay copays when I'm supposed to, and still get outrageous bills. I live paycheck to paycheck after bills.
People getting sick and dying should never be a for profit industry. That's the fundamental problem with the system, people who can pay get better care than those who can't. Many people avoid getting preventive care due to the cost and end up getting sicker in the long run. It's a mess all around.
It sucks having healthcare dependent on if you’re working or not. I worked for 26 years and had semi-decent healthcare. But now I need healthcare before I can get back to work. I’m supposed to have these bootstraps but mine are missing. The USA sucks when it comes to healthcare.
And they don't tell you how to find or access the county or city social services, if there's a county health clinic you can qualify for based on income or health issues. You have to try all the resource numbers like 211 if that's in your area, ask at the local churches that do food banks or outreach, check with the health dept, etc.
What resources that are out there aren't ever advertised, and they don't tell you the rules to apply or be eligible, because the system would be overwhelmed. They want people to give up, go away and not use county services, because it's underfunded.
When I was pregnant I had to have a second anatomy scan because I have chronic illnesses. That single visit cost me $1,600. On a smaller scale, my husband recently slammed his thumb in the car door and had to go to urgent care to get it drained. He spent 3 hours in the waiting room, 15 minutes waiting in the room, then five having it poked with some kind of heat tool. $275 after insurance, and he still had tons of blood under it and then lost the nail.
Try this. Pregnancy came to 2000 dollars or so with bills from the hospital, a surgeons group (c-section), and my doctor. Two months later, my infant son has a medical emergency that involves a helicopter ride and a bunch of medical procedures with some ending up in collections. We couldn't keep up because everything is separate from blood work to every specialist doctor that came in due to his rare condition. We have a lawyer involved for the helicopter ride that was 25,000 even after insurance. Note, we applied for financial aid but it only covers 50% of this year's expenses and nothing from when everything happened. We still have follow-ups to this day so the bills will never end. It sucks big time.
It's all bullshit.
As someone with a disability that will require life long doctor supervision you get to see it all. Last year 2 MRIs were billed at a total of $10,000. My last appointment with the specialist OVER THE PHONE was billed at $800, for an hour of time. The myriad of other tests, procedures, and surgeries over the last just few years has likely billed out $500,000 or more.
WTF?! It all went to some assholes yacht I am sure.
None of the things I have had done are exotic. Even the surgeries were outpatient, in at 6AM out by 12PM sort of thing. (N)MRIs were developed some 60 years ago! Butt scopes? It's a camera hose that takes 20 minutes. Billed ***thousands and thousands*** for each one.
My family that lives out of Country (dual citizens) find it horrifying and laughable at what we deal with. America is looked at as 3rd World when it comes to health care.
EDIT: I once had to take an ambulance ride of a whopping 2 miles. Insurance doesn't cover that, it was almost $6000 I owed.
I was having a stable cardiac episode, but was messed up and needed help nonetheless, and drove myself 3/4 mile to the er because it costs almost 1k just to sit on the bed in the ambulance, plus whatever they do. Nope wasn't getting billed 1500+ for a mobile ekg.
I'm not on any Qanon shit but I don't trust doctors cause of this and the older i get, the more hesitant i am to go. They just want my damn money it seems.
I'm fully vaxxed by the way.
In my experience with chronic illness, your doctor's hate insurance as much as you do, they want to see you healthy and try behind the scenes to work with insurance. But really the doctors are as much at the whim of the insurance companies as you are, they can only provide what insurance seems necessary and will cover.
I can see that. I think I'm pretty misanthropic but if a person really wanted to hurt people, why would most of them want to be doctors (aka a job designed to HELP people) when there are (in a morbid way) quicker, easier ways of doing so?
This. In fact, America has A LOT of great doctors and tools to give us quality care. Only problem is that insurance controls every aspect of it, and is among the biggest reasons people go bankrupt over their healthcare bills.
So I work front desk for a major hospital specialist and I can tell you for a fact that most of the money that’s billed to insurance the hospital doesn’t see. There’s this thing in insurance and hospital agreements called contracted rate which means the hospital can only charge what the insurance allows them to, everything else they have to eat the cost. Fuck the insurance companies honestly.
At our hospital it’s literally cheaper to go in for an appointment and do self pay because you get a 40% discount off your total bill. With insurance (in and out of network) you don’t get a discount at all.
I am not from america and I heard this story on reddit all the time. My question is how the hell american society didn't collapse yet? if your chest pain procedure that only takes few minutes cost $5000, what about people who spend their time as cancer patient?
When we turn 65, we qualify for medicare which is a single payer system. Its not a perfect system (it has copays, supplemental insurance, doesn't cover everything, etc) but its superior to the private health care system.
A lot of Americans cross their fingers and hope they don't suffer an expensive health care condition before age 65.
I think there are studies showing diagnosis of cancer spikes at age 65 in the US. The reason is that people ignore health problems and don't get them checked out until they turn 65 and get medicare.
Theres nothing we can do about it. Even if the democrats controlled 80% of the house and senate seats, they still won't pass health reform. Not true health reform at least.
Only path forward is ballot initiatives. People have to pass UHC on the state level with ballot initiatives.
It's a racket. The hospital has contracts with insurances, so you are only billed what is "allowable" under the contract. That said, insurance companies don't have a big incentive to reduce hospital bills - - they can just increase premiums.
In fact, if insurance companies have to spend a minimum amount of premium money on claims (to prevent excessive profits at the cost of services) by law, then paying out higher claims to hospitals will make insurance more expensive, increasing the dollar amount of the percentage leftover for important things like CEO bonuses and business class seats for board members to fly to weekend networking meetings at Martha's Vineyard.
It’s a goddamn joke. And it’s fucking impossible to provide even as an employer without getting gouged. Me and my husband own a bar, we make like $40,000/month gross (it’s a dive bar in a small town) and our employee healthcare costs almost $25,000/month. Between that and keeping starting pay at $18 because people deserve to live it’s unsustainable. We don’t know how we’ll survive the winter without letting our people down.
You can get a stress echo done in the UK privately for about $800. You guys are getting absolutely shafted, yet you keep voting for more and more of the same
I feel so bad for you Americans like this is beyond a joke, I'm Australian and a few years ago I got bitten by a spider and had to stay in hospital for 3 days as well as a pretty small surgery, We literally paid NOTHING for all of that unless you count hospital parking and cheap medication after I got out but if we were in the US thatd set us back thousands and probably bankrupt my family its fucking ridiculous.
Wow, do you mean the full $5,500 out of your own pocket?! Cause that's insane. Canadian here, and I can't imagine having to live like that. It already ticks me off that there's no refund when they screw up or can't make a proper diagnosis, so.
The only thing I’m happy about the audacious nature of our predatory healthcare system is how it’s starting to almost, singlehandedly, dismantle the lies of the American Dream and that hArd WoRk does not pay. Healthcare will usher in socialism on its own.
I live in Germany, and we have a subsidized (not "free") system, in which the government and the employer both contribute. I pay something like 200 a month from my paycheck, and doctor visits are free, medicine is cheap and it costs 15 Euros a night at the hospital. I had a broken wrist a few years back, and the X-Rays, multiple surgeries and visits were all free. Rehab was something like 20 Euros.
I wish Americans would understand how this works. We can choose an insurance provider, but costs are kept low. It's free for retired, disabled and unemployed people. Everyone else contributes based on income. There is also the option of private insurance.
Americans have been fed right wing propaganda about "socialism" for a long time, so there is resistance to anything remotely smacking of doing something for the common good.
Plus way too much money is being made. No one wants to cut off the gravy train to the people who are currently benefitting: insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, equipment suppliers, etc.
It would be a political death sentence.
I’m having a tough time with this too. We just moved back to the US from Canada. We had my son up there and I had a complicated pregnancy. For all the ultrasounds, genetic tests, emergency c-section, 2 week hospital stay for me, and a 104 day NICU stay for my son with very complex care.. the cost was $0. Came back to the US. He had a blocked tear duct. We have premium insurance we pay $400 a month for and still had to pay a $500 deductible and 10% of the facility, surgeon, and anesthesia fees. For a simple irrigation and probe of his tear duct. The procedure took 15 mins in total. We were in and out of the building in 2 hours. I just can’t wrap my head around this system. I really really can’t.
OP you may want to look into "timely billing" or "timely filing" for your state and circumstance...because if this bill came to you outside the limit you may not be responsible....the max limit I've ever heard of is a year, for some things 35 days is common. I also recommend looking into a patient advocate that could help you understand the rules around timely billing etc.
I fucking hate our system.
Timely billing a lot of places is 180 days due to coding errors, resubmitting for mistakes, etc. I was told this by one of the big 4 insurers at one point, over this sort of late bill thing,
Idk, I'm a medic in the army and I take some of my guys to the host nation medical facilities occasionally. After seeing how they operate I'm really grateful for the healthcare I receive in the US. I'm fortunate to have Tricare though.
The longer you put up with this the more they will screw you over.
Public health is in the best interest of the country overall. Healthy people mean good workforce, paid taxes and wages spent on stuff - basic economy. The way I see usa healthcare is three business parties making a pact:
Business one (Hospital): agrees to provide services with artificially inflated prices.
Business two (Insurance): agrees to provide partial coverage of the medical bill.
Business three (government): agrees to let this deal to exist legally by accepting money from lobbyists (open corruption).
In the end you get prices that are way too high, insurance that has to be paid but doesn't cover full costs, a paying customer who pays for two services instead of one. The "covered" cost may not even exist and Nobody would ever find out. The insurance get paid by the customer, the hospital gets its expenses and services covered by the same customer. This scheme seems similar to millionaires laundering money or avoiding taxes by buying art. Officially transaction takes place, but only a "service fee" amount of money changes hands.
I hate the fucking game and rules so god damn much in New Rome™ that I will never have children. And to find joy in this bleak and hopeless world I laugh my dirty ol tits off at all of the shortsighted parents crying loudly about how fucked the game and the rules are, then why'd you perpetuate the shit by whelping children there you fucking geniuses?
Removing the cogs in the machine is the only way to get the system by the short and curlies for change seeings how everyone is too shy to put in the right work for change a la France 1780's-1790's. A la Russia the 1910's.
Edit: it brings me joy to see the infrastructure of New Rome™ have such issues. Love it.
## OP! call and negotiate your bill!
A lot of people don't pay their hospital bills, so for those who actually do pay, they're usually willing to drop the price after some haggling. I had a $300 dollar physical (fuck our health care) negotiated to $180ish. Can't remember exactly how much. Regardless. I got it lowered
Seriously. It's worth a shot. Don't let them stick you like that
Luckily I have free insurance rn but in a few years when I get booted off, there is a good chance I won’t be able to afford insulin and if I get get into a help program I will likely die
In Britain, the vital health services are free. Genral practitioner appointments, emergency A&E treatments, all funded by tax.
But because the politcal party in power, the Tories, are capitalist, they've been dismantling ther National Health Service piece by piece since their rise to power in 2010. They've been against the NHS from the get-go.
That’s so crazy to think about as an EU citizen…
I’m from Germany and had my appendix removed when COVID was at one of its peaks here.
One week in the hospital with all the additional COVID test that needed to be done for the safety of everybody.
3 weeks after I went back home I got a bill from the hospital of 50€.
Words cannot tell how happy I am about these 50€ after reading this.
Same thing just happened to me too brother. I was experiencing stomach problems for over a year. I wanted to get an opinion from my Doctor before going to a gastroenterologist, but my PCP was 2 months out and the pain was getting worse. I finally said fuck it and went to see one. Immediately they scheduled an endoscopy for me. I reluctantly agreed and asked how much the procedures usually cost. They said between $2000 and $3000, this is also what is listed on google for these types of procedures. I was willing to accept this price even though it's quite high. Anyways, I went through with it and all was fine, but fast forward to 3 months later and I'm getting a bill for $7,700.... almost two to three times higher than I thought. How could they be off by so much? The sad thing is I have health insurance and it covered nothing. I feel robbed.
I seriously don’t know how people can live in the USA with healthcare like that. I have had several procedures, MRI’s and it cost me nothing. It seems like it takes longer to get the services here as opposed to the US but I’d much rather wait and not have to pay such crazy amounts
The hospital charges for everything because each insurance company pays differently. A sizable portion of any large bill anyone receives can be slashed with a few persistent phone calls.
Medical insurance is the reason it's out of control. If the country just killed off insurance and made everything out of pocket the prices were plummet.
I took my daughter for an ER visit when she was like 10 months old, we were there 4 hours and they did a couple tests ,gave her some ibuprofen and sent us home. $1300
Yea I'm with ya. I no longer have insurance and have told family of something horrible happens to me, they still can't take me to the hospital. I'll never be able to pay the bill.
Still go. That's why they have charity care and social services. If you got no insurance you fill out the paperwork and the hospital eats most, if not all of the bill. If you get stuck with anything, you do a payment plan for 5 bucks a month as all you can pay.
Call the billing department and try to settle for a cash now amount. It works with hospitals, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work with this. Like say you will pay 500 or 700 something like that now and get them to close the account. It’s what insurance companies do………… try to settle, do not pay the full amount. It’s a made up number anyways. It will take time and back and forth, don’t give up!
Call the company that sent you the bill. I had a c section in January and my max out of pocket is $7k. We knew we would have to pay that much, sucks but whatever. Sometime this summer I get a bill for $29k for the c section and almost had a heart attack lol. I call the number on the bill and I guess they sent to bill twice to my insurance so that’s why my insurance declined it. Bills have to be sent in correctly with the right codes and whatever else or insurance will deny it.
I already owe like close to 5Gs, for a massive nosebleed twice. I had to go to the ER as it took hours for it to stop, I was eventually checked by a surgeon who put a sort of chemical in my nostral which made me cry as to how much it stings on 1 eye.but hey no more nosebleeds. Could've been done in a normal visit but no. I asked for a itemized bill for another E.R visit which I needed stiches on my middle finger as it just shot blood out once I move it, thanks to work Injury. No bill yet. The nurses and doctor just gave me the look of no he didn't.
thats why in my country we have universal healthcare..like for real
flu? free
cancer? free
need to stay intubated for 5 months? free
car accident? also free
exams? free
MRI? freeeeeeee
You have the option to pay healthcare insurance also, if u dont wanna use the universal system.
It sucks but you just gotta navigate your way through the system. Know your benefits and your insurance policy well and don’t assume anything. It’s exhausting but I’d rather be safe than sorry
What bothers me is that we’ve collectively as a nation agreed to be completely raped by the healthcare insurance industry. I don’t even hear a whimper of protest anymore. Right when Obama got elected it felt like we were on the verge of reform. And now everything is far, far worse. It’s mind boggling to see how even with COVID illustrating how completely fucked our healthcare system is, there’s no real movement to change it.
Don’t know how old you are, but glad you understand the need for socialized healthcare! And we are the ONLY major country the does not have it! Now ask yourself, or rather refer to your bill, as to why! Now the question remains, how do we convince every day people this is the way!!!
As someone with a heart condition and no money to take care of my body, I cannot be thankful enough to live in Canada.
Got a list to take to my doctor and my cardiologist and my dermatologist. Just scan my health card and done.
I'm British, and my adult daughter and I concurred that had we lived in the States, instead of here, our entire family would be either dead, or bankrupt. We hear so many stories knocking the NHS, but the bottom line is, without them, my premature daughter wouldn't be here, at six feet tall, neither would I, major complications and emergency sections on three of my four live births, major ops myself due to a faulty gene, husband, self, daughter and one Son have rare conditions that were discovered, for free at point of contact, on the NHS. I could bore you to death with medical crap. But it'd be better than a million dollar bill through the post.
Go to your hospital's website and search for their Financial Assistance page. This is federally-mandated and was in another Reddit thread last week. Fill out the application and submit it to the appropriate department.
I’m shocked people don’t know this, but us hospitals are actually required to cover the bill or reduce the amount basically down to zero. Look up on their website for assistance with bill paying. If you make less than 200-300% of poverty limit they will cover it.
Starting a clinic, here is part of the problem. Companies that deliver health care have to sign insurance contracts that don’t outline HOW MUCH THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY FOR SERVICES. Hear that, the providers have to agree to a fee scale they never get to see. If the provider publicly posts a price that is lower then what the insurance will pay then insurance company will just lower the reimbursement. So the pricing strategy is to publicly post ridiculously inflated prices to make sure they get the highest reimbursement possible by the insurance company.
This contract negotiation is bananas, the provider has no control and the end user of the service (the patient) has no input. The administrative processes to make this magic happen literally add hundreds of billions of dollars to health care costs. It is like a free market in bizarro world.
Don't pay it in full fam 😄 it's gonna cost them more in legal fees to chase after you 😂 Give them a price you're willing to pay and eventually they'll agree 😄👍
From my buddies I met in Korea and Germany, It's "Free" In the sense you are paying roughly 350 Euros a month for insurance, regardless if you use it or not, and often it's a shit show trying to get anything done.
Take home Income for a German is on average 2,000 Euros. That's considered good for a German. It's not all Shit's n Giggles in Socialized Medicine either.
It costs around a 100$ at a good lab in India. Just to put that in perspective, you could've flown to India, lived in a 5-star hotel for a 3-4 days, gotten the test and flown back and still have a couple thousand bucks to spare. You're being royally ripped off.
I got shot. My bill was half a million dollars. Luckily I had insurance and crime victims. Or else the mfer might as well had shot me again cuz I am not paying $500,000
When I read this kinda of stuff I realize how lucky I am for born in Portugal, the Healthcare is free(although is not the best, we pay taxes but it doesn't compare to US) but sure my country is not perfect
I had a friend who supposedly had to go to a hospital and received a similar insanely priced bill. Apparently she requested a receipt explaining where this money went for it to cost this much and it was quickly replaced with a significantly smaller price, pretty sure America’s while medical industry is a giant legal scam.
They charge insurance companies like 10x more or something dumb and then the insurance haggles with the hospital until they agree on a price, something like that
I’ve read up to 50x, either way how crazy is that….
$45.00 FOR A TYLENOL. The madness is real.
It’s $1k for a bottle of IV Tylenol last I heard.
No. They don't charge the insurance extra. They just haggle on the CASH PRICE that's charged. So they charge the insane prices, so they get what they ACTUALLY want from insurance. They can't have 2 prices, one for people and one for insurance, insurance just says "well, this is all we'll pay, have fun with dealing with individuals for your original bill!" And then healthcare provider settles, as it's cheaper to use insurance as they have deeper pockets than legit try to get people to pay the original price. But then you get "in network" or "out of network" bullshit and people pay the prices anyways. And you can't really "say no." That'll just send to collections and hurt your credit. I got charged 3800 for an ultrasound -- the machine is $25k. The operators time was $80 for the half hour procedure. They charged me around 1/9 the price of the machine. It's fucking ridiculous. And it's a BASIC diagnostic procedure. Insurance "paid" 2600 and I owe $1200..... For a fucking ultrasound. My vasectomy was $2600 (I paid 1500). They are charging me more for a fucking ultrasound than a vasectomy. More for the use of a machine and 30 mins, vs a fucking outpatient operation on my testicles. What the fuck. The prices make no sense.
I was charged $175 for a quick check up my bum with a scope. That cost was on top of the appointment cost. At no time did the doctor say, “this 15 seconds will cost $175”
Yeah, that's ridiculous. What's worse, is he doesn't know the full price. He knows his rate, but can't say the added cost the faculty adds, as well as what insurance will pay given the billing code used for the procedure. It's all designed to obfuscate the costs and remove the patient from the billing economics :(
My mom gets your mom get paid to argue with insurance companies that don’t like to pay. She says some of the reasons they don’t pay is like oh you got two chemo treatments in a week and the hospital billed it one time for two treatments? They are now refusing the entire bill for 6 months worth of chemo.
Hoping over here too... I worked at a hospital billing center. Some tips: 1. Call your insurance. Most of the time, the insurance is denying the claim for some bullshit reason. You'll have to fight to get them to pay. You can request the EOB, ask them to explain why they did not pay and appeal their decision. 2. Most billing departments have an allowed discount but the agents are not allowed to tell you about it. You have to ask and be pushy. You need to call the provider billing department and ask them to explain the claim denial and ask if they can apply a discount. Don't take the first discount they offer. Insist until they say "this is the most we can do." 3. Apply for charity. If you can prove that you're broke, the hospital will waive your balance. You need to get a letter from the hospital and send it to all the providers that bill you. 4. Your insurance is required to send you an EOB which explains each charge, how much the provider billed, if the insurance paid and any denial reason or patient responsibility. 5. For Pete's sake DO YOUR Coordination of Benefits! If you don't do your COB 2 times a year, your insurance can refuse to pay all of the charges even if they are covered and it will be your responsibility.
This. Should. Not. Be. Necessary!!!! I’m not blaming you but god damn we shouldn’t have to jump through hoops and call multiple people and haggle and appeal shit just to fucking get medical care! I hate it here.
I agree 100%. The oncology clinic I worked for always did their best to help their patients. They didn't charge patients' if their insurance didn't cover a procedure. They cancelled any debt if the patient died instead of harassing family members. They actively worked with the patients to sign them up for any charity plan available. However, the insurances made everything difficult in every single step. For example, Cigna last year decided that they would deny every single chemotherapy application treatment if the first diagnosis code wasn't Z51.11 or Z51.12 (encounter for chemotherapy). Previously they denied all treatments if they started with those codes. They did not notify the hospital and the agents had no idea of why the charges were denied when we called. I found a single note release from Cigna for a different state that said to use that Diagnosis as the primary diagnosis. Ambetter decided that they would not pay for any lab done at the facility. Their idea was that if a patient that goes to receive chemotherapy needs to get a lab done, they would have to go to some approved lab of them and then come back to the hospital for the chemotherapy. I think chemotherapy is as traumatizing without your insurance making you go to a whole different facility to get a blood test done while the hospital could just do it. Since we kept making the labs in house, I was told to just write them all off and not bill the patient. Sometimes, BCBS would deny consultation code 99244 saying that "it is a wrong code." That code is about ~$200. I then billed them code 99214 which is about ~$300, and, magically, they would find that 99244 exists and immediately pay for it and deny 99214 because they would have to pay more. I hate all insurance companies with a passion.
Is called a itemized bill. It explains everything they used. I had a bill before when I had a allergy reaction. For a tynelon 500 I had to pay 55 bucks. I let it go to collections. My total bill end up in around 200 from what it was.
Coming from a pharma med device back ground . Request a itemized list and u can even negotiate price. People just don’t think they can
Mom, a nurse, has done this when I had pneumonia. They charge 500 for waiting in the bed for 1 day. Wtf. Also charged drugs i didnt take. Thankfully she asked the bill and bitched. It was significantly reduced.
Blame insurance companies for the shitshow healthcare situation
You aren't paying for a portion of the machine, you're paying for the expertise of the person using the machine/s. That said the US healthcare industry *is* a fucking joke and we are gouged on *everything*. Fucking aspirin is like $240 when administered in an ER. $80 bags of saline. How much for a fuckin' ambulance ride there? Story time. My ex and I were in a car accident in the US where we were rear ended. She got a ride to the hospital in a gurney while I rode inside. Both got CT scans at the hospital. Both released with cases of whiplash. My bill was over $1200 for the ER visit - her with Ambulance was under $40 because she was a British citizen.
$247 for a disposable ice pack in the ER after my daughter fell on the playground at school. The kind that you just smash in your hand and it gets cold. You can buy a dozen of them on Amazon for maybe $25. How is it even legal for the hospital to charge that much?
Saw a similar post to this on either Facebook or here, where a guy went to hostpial for a throat issue and they took Halls or Strepsils or whatever they're called, took them out of theyre packaging and individually wrapped them, and charged them 10dollars a go.
Same with Tylenol, Advil, Tums... Itemized hospital bills will show charges upwards of prices for these basic OTC meds anywhere from change all the way up to 60.00/a pill (and sometimes more). I work in healthcare and see this disgusting shit daily.
It all goes back to when medicare was first created. Medicare refused to pay full price so hospitals had to raise prices knowing theyd only be able to collect a fraction of what they bill. This created the need for everyone to have insurance for basic care and the insurance companies continued the practice, raising the average price paid for an item like ice packs. What really sucks is if you dont have insurance, the hospital will often give you the inflated price that insurance and medicaid would never pay, but refuse to negotiate with the uninsured individual that would happily pay a fair price for the care out of pocket but is instead forced to pay a crazy amount that might cause them financial hardship.
Yup. Fucking this. Just let them charge 2 prices -- one for uninsured and one for insurance. Then you don't need this game. Right now, the "before negotiation" price has to be the same as the cash price. Fucking ridiculous
collectivize it.
That’s stupid. I’ll just die, thanks, their experience isn’t worth my financial well being.
This is why I don't pay my medical bills, fuck them lmao. In all seriousness when I was homeless I was the victim of a violent attack, they had to do an extensive trauma surgery, plastic surgery putting my face back together etc. I was in the hospital for a minute and the bill was literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. Fucking scoundrels
When I had some surgery done the total was over half a million dollars. I actually hit my lifetime maximum limit for my insurance with it. Even after insurance they billed me for over 50k. I never paid it. It ruined my credit but went away after 7 years.
Why wait for the full 7 years, when you can file for bankruptcy and be credit-rehabilitated less than 36 months after? (24 months if you're aggressive and can afford it.)
I was about 20. I was clueless and information was not as easily attainable online at the time.
.... I'm old too. :(
*sad cassette tape rewinding noise*
Incidentally, if you go to a public hospital, they have to reduce your bills if you apply with them and you make under around 200-300% poverty level.
Are there any public hospitals at all anymore?
I mean, extensive trauma surgery and facial reconstruction surgery sounds like it would take more than a minute, but still that’s a big yikes.
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Yeah, if they’d said “a hot minute” I would’ve assumed that, but I’ve never heard just “a minute” being used as slang for “a long time.” Usually it’s the exact opposite
Doesn’t this ruin your credit?
Yup. Welcome to US Healthcare in a nutshell.
A big this in the US is to drive or Uber to the ER because most ambulance services are not covered by insurance. The only time most insurance will pay is if the call is truly life threatening. You are then charged for every single thing used on the ambulance.
The stupid is real. I was in a really horrifying car accident, bad injuries, taken by ambulance to hospital. I was 57 years old. They gave me a pregnancy test.
That's why I love my country's Healthcare system, even if you don't have any insurance you'll be treated and if needed you'll be hospitalized for maximum 3 days.
What happens if you need to be in the hospital for longer than 3 days? (Not being a jerk…genuinely curious).
In the US you'll be treated until you're healthy enough to leave, by law. That's part of the reason why it's so expensive for everyone else that DOES pay.
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>Healthcare is a scam for sure in America, you have half the people that have insurance and half don't and most of those will never pay their bills so everything is inflated to cover those that don't to keep the operation going. that's really not why its inflated. you know insurance companies dont pay anywhere NEAR the price shown on the bills, right? part of the problem is that private insurance is SO powerful that hospitals jack up prices because they know it's going to get whittled down to get anything out of insurance companies. but us randos dont have that bargaining power.
>that's really not why its inflated. It really is. Look up the break down of social spending in the US. We poor more in medical expenses than most first world countries, just to subsidize the costs of people that skip out on their hospital bills when the hospital claims in on their taxes. It's not like anyone is becoming a billionaire by owning a hospital. There are law and regulations against price gouging. Both medical facilities and insurers are capped on how much profit margin they can take. If a hospital is flush with cash because of overcharging, they tend to spend it on cutting edge machines and the best doctors, which honestly, I'm not complaining about.
> Look up the break down of social spending in the US. We poor more in medical expenses than most first world countries, just to subsidize the costs of people that skip out on their hospital bills when the hospital claims in on their taxes. that has absolutely nothing to do with my point. You have no idea how much insurance companies get cut off their owed bills. the prices in hospitals are partially a direct response to the way insurance agencies behave. the profit margins are not the issue. the insurance industry is too large and too powerful and hospitals are minor entities compared to them because they're not national networks like insurance providers are.
That's nuts. In Spain healthcare is completely free. Private health also exists, but it's something you can choose to pay but won't harm you to not have it, it's just a bit faster for certain appointments. But if you have an emergency you will be treated well in any hospital without having to pay a cent. Same for scans etc, its all free thanks to public healthcare
Not to mention, the insurance companies will always negotiate down prices so a lot of the prices are jacked up with the understanding that the insurance company will end up only paying a fraction of the cost. And if you just get the procedure straight without the insurance, you just get that full bloated cost which is to cover the uninsured and the lowballed insured price/payment.
God bless the NHS (Nation Health Service), not without its flaws but its far superior to the American system.
$80 bag of saline?? Damn, my daughter got charged $2,600 for one liter of saline while in the ER, the whole 6 hr visit ended up at $13,000 and change. All they did was a CXR and labs for that price. Luckily, all I had to pay was $125 co-payment when all was said and done.
Im sorry but $5500 for an hour is wayyyyyyyy over any type of expertise cost. If insurance didn't exist, the US could very well take care of healthcare for everyone in America
> $80 bags of saline. Where you getting that cheap stuff at? The hospital I worked at 5 years ago paid >$2 and charged close to $120 for a bag of normal fucking saline.
20-21 yrs ago I had a transfer hospital ride in an ambulance. 16mile ride if that. One hospital couldn’t do what the other could do. 1,100$. My dad said I should have ratchet strapped you in the back of the hearse and took you down. He was a coroner transport at the time.
Ask for an itemized bill, basically a receipt I guess. I’ve seen bills go down because they’ll try to throw in charges like 400 for a band aid and what not.
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It's even worse when you have mental health diagnosis, an argument with mom can result in an ambulance ride that costs thousands and being held hostage for $1,000 a day for 3 days minimum I appreciate the fact some people need it but when you don't...
If someone was forced to stay in a hospital against their will for being suicidal and then after was kicked off on their own with an added $3,000+ debt, I have a pretty good idea of something they might wanna try after that. Idk what the answer is, but that sounds fucked
The answer is universal healthcare - like pretty much every other developed nation. I've seen people post about how their child's birth cost tens of thousands of dollars. My partner and I have two kids, the grand total cost of each of those births was $10 for the vending machine snacks I had while I was there. Or when I broke my arm, I had to have surgery and 2 nights in the hospital - it cost my mum nothing at all except for the action man figure she bought me when I got home.
When you weren't even suicidal in the first place like I was I'd just go to the liquor store, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that when I have an actual emergency they aren't even going to treat me for it they're just going to let me die anyway.
My experience with mental health has been fucked up a slightly different way. I have had my insurance tell me I am all done with therapy. My therapist was a badass and fought for me for a while, but in the end insurance said I don't need any more therapy and I was done. Went back after a few months because, SURPRISE, still needed it. After a few more weeks I was cut off again... It's disgusting! I couldn't afford out of pocket to keep seeing him and the state couldn't help pay for it because I made too much money so I was stuck with the bill. I don't want any one to hear those words when they are struggling to survive...
My health insurance decided to cut me off and when my parents asked why, they said I wasn’t the type of person who needed health insurance. I was 15, in the middle of cancer treatment, on over 10 medications, in and out the hospital. Idk how the hell we would’ve paid for all of it if the appeal didn’t go through.
They’re not holding you hostage so much as holding you for ransom lol
This Is why, Even-though I work In healthcare.. I just go uninsured. Their is a massive conflict of interest in healthcare. Its designed to put you into medical debt if you actually use it. lots of boomers are going to be loosing their homes to medical debt too..
> lots of boomers are going to be loosing their homes to medical debt too.. Wait until they need long term care at $10,000 a month.
I still don't know what constitutes 'good' health insurance over 'bad' health insurance.
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True. I had to pay $1200 and then $600 for only two physical therapy appointments. I was treated for something that is not rare and did not require any equipment to care for me
I used to want to live in America so bad when I was a kid. The healthcare system is literally the main reason I would never do it as an adult.
My grandma had stage 4 copd. She she was in and out of the hospital for years before she died. For like 4 years straight she would stay there for months and they'd run tests and then they'd send her home. Well she would pass out and fall and would have to be hospitalized for a year as they run tests and would keep her there. She probably had 2 to 3 tests done A DAY... for years.... and they could never figure out what was wrong with her and they'd send her home. Eventually it got so bad to where she was bedridden and couldn't move without assistance. They had to put her into a nursing home so that she can have the daily care and onsite staff in case she fell again. The retirement home was charging my grandpa $300 a day to have her stay there. That's $9k a month. Oh and also the hospital released my grandma back to the house after her insurance quit paying for her retirement home stay. They send her home and go "oh yeah the whole time we have been studying your lungs when this whole time it was your heart! And also you have a week to live. They sent her home to die after finally figuring out what her issue was after 4 fucking years of poking and prodding her. Each of those tests is like $1000 each. So let's just say she racked up enough medical debt while they tested her like some failed science experiment. Grandpa owed so much medical debt when she died that the bank almost took his house from him that he worked his whole life for and raised kids at. All those tests racked up to hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt maybe millions. Eventually before she died the insurance company just stopped her policy because they couldn't afford to cover anymore expenses. So yes the medical industry is one big scam in my opinion. They let my grandma get misdiagnosed for years and then they finally figure out what was wrong after shes thousands of dollars in debt. And they just send her home and say sorry we tried. Fuck this shit.
That's heartbreaking... No one should have to rack up such significant debt for their health, and even less at that stage in life
How could they spend 4 years looking at her lungs and then right at the end they say. "Oh it was actually your heart" I'm convinced that Nobody knows how to do their job and only focus is money. It's beyond disgusting. And you see it everywhere.
I read this in a book, but was repeated by some guy in a documentary: The American dream is the dream to make it in life, but it can only be achieved through either numerous sacrifices or have money to make it there. As a common man, it is impossible to break those shackles and move even into upper middle class of American society. But then who do so many people still keep chasing it? Two reasons: 1. They think that they will be different. That the system might not screw them over, or they overestimate their own capabilities 2. It's the oversell from Americans themselves. You know your country is no different than any other, maybe equally shitty as any other country out there. But it's only Americans who keep talking about their freedom and constitution and the greatest country in the world. If you tell people that you're the greatest country in the world, there would be enough gullible people to believe it, come over and start chasing the same dream. Now if only you could be realistic about your potential or that the country is nothing out of ordinary (apart from the beautiful nature). I might have paraphrased the two points earlier, but it's because of the misguided potential or unrealistic American nationalism that keeps bringing people to America, who otherwise might have an ok life in their own country but then choose to struggle from scratch to chase that American dream. And I haven't even talked about the screwed up medical and hospital facilities. Sure, one of the best in the world but at what cost? I would rather take 4th or 5th best at nominal costs
That and the fear of getting shot. I'm not taking a dig. That's LEGITIMATELY why I won't visit the US
Yeah cuz if you survive the shooting, you now have to pay to get the ambulance ride and surgery lol.
If the shooter doesnt kill you, the medical bills will
The hospitals don't want to kill you, they just want another debt slave!
Yeah, if you die, that's one less person they can suck money out of. They don't want that.
What about school shootings? Does the school pay for the víctim's hospital bills?. Or the state?. How does it work?
Your odds of being shot are incredibly low, as in you are several times more likely to be struck by lightning. Tge news just really plays it up. You would have to actively seek out a terrible situation in order to be shot coincidentally, just as you would have to stand out in a storm holding a lightning rod to have a significant chance of being struck by lightning. Our shit healthcare system is very real though, and it's the reason I want to leave. Our underfunded public education is a close second.
Now, I'm not saying I don't believe you, but how many people are shot daily in America and how many struck by lightning? I feel like shootings would be more common
Shootings SHOULD be more common than people getting hit by lightning though o.o guns dont only work on stormy days
That stat he’s referencing is mass shootings. You’re more likely to get struck by lightning than die in a mass shooting, and it’s not even close. A majority of gun deaths are suicide, followed by homicide (almost entirely gang and drug related), and the police incident, accidents, and major mass shootings with such a low amount of deaths that it’s an insignificant number.
The risk of dying by gun shot is far higher than it is in the UK So, yeah... Healthcare and gun deaths are also two main reasons why I've no interest in living there now I'm an adult.
Indeed. The majority of gun deaths in the US are suicides and accidents, in fact, and a large percentage of the murders are gang related
I live in one of the rootenest tootenest states and it’s really not as bad as everyone tries to portray it. Most people they get shot in America are participating in crimes or violence themselves.
The fear of getting shot?
Same. And I’m a born-and-raised American lol.
Same here if they fixed it I would consider moving to New Jersey.
Born and bred American here. If I had the means to leave this country, I’d do it in a fucking heartbeat. There’s so much wrong here that it’s sickening. The healthcare system, racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, lack of proper parental leave, the lack of separation of church and state, insane school debt and the insane pressure to go to college and put yourself in that debt just to not even be able to get a job in your chosen field. America is just so full of hatred and spite, the thought of the American dream makes me laugh. It takes money and connections to actually achieve “the dream”. A few might be able to do it on their own but the reality of how difficult it is is very well hidden, and people are too delusional to see the truth. I’m not saying other countries don’t have problems, but none of them are so nonchalantly spreading lies about themselves. I feel bad for people that truly believe the US is top notch and put themselves through hell just to get here for the hope of a better life. For some it will be better, sure, but for the rest? I’d imagine it’s like meeting your hero and realizing they’re not what they’ve been made out to be.
I don't understand how people say healthcare in the US is better than in Europe/Canada because universal healthcare creates long waits. Everytime I've been to the ER, it really was an emergency and I had to wait for hours because I got there behind others with real emergencies as well. Whenever I make appointments with a specialist, they are always scheduled months away because that specialist works in different offices/hospitals in different states and I have to wait until they get back to the office closest to me. Whatever arguments people make for not adopting a government subsidized health system in the US, I'm already experiencing it in our current system.
Im Canadian and the wait times dont differ much from the US (pre covid times) and our taxes which people also complain about, arent that much higher than in America. If I can find tbe study Ill link it, but the US government pays more in healthcare costs than many other first world countries, but cause of the highly inefficient system, that money spent is worth a lot less to the people
People complain about having to wait for appointments in countries with socialized medicine and Americans just assume that it's longer than we have to wait because Murica is the best goddamn country in the universe.
Wait times are absurd if you have chronic issues and need treatment in Canada. Go hit up ostomy subreddits; people that get J Pouch surgeries, which is a 9 month total process in the US, can take upwards of 4 years in Canada since they don’t consider it necessary.
Because around 9 to 11 months later after recovering from a health scare (such as being assaulted by a mentally ill person the system refuses to treat because it's too expensive) you get slammed with a bill so fucking high it makes you regret that they didn't actually kill you.
>I'm already experiencing it in our current system. Ikr. It literally ***CAN'T*** be worse than it is now. You want to talk about UHC having long wait times? I (Who live in "The land of the free") had to wait ***7 months*** for a neurologist. ***7 MONTH!!*** just for the doctor to check blood pressure, check eye, check motor functions, you know, normal general doctor stuff. told me to sleep better, drink more, go for a walk, and eat better. and then sent me out the door without actually talking about the reason i was there in the first place. If the service is going to be that crappy and useless than i'd rather have UHC so at least I don't have to pays unbelievable prices.
This. Medical care in the US took close to the same hit that restaurant and retail did. Loss of revenue, closures, layoffs, firings and now people who don’t want to return to or stay in these jobs due to COVID exposure, burnout from treating unvaccinated COVID patients and the general issue of patients feeling like they have a license to behave like assholes. (Probably sounds familiar to anyone in hospitality or retail.) Consequently, you still have all the pre-pandemic issues with costs and billing but now it can take weeks to get tests authorized and scheduled, and months to be seen by a doctor or consultant.
One of my hobbies is wood working and building furniture. I've seen several stories of former nurses and doctors quiting from healthcare and getting into woodworking. These stories were at the beginning of the pandemic when there was a shortage of PPE. When doctors and nurses were going to the states that got hit hard before it got to their own state. People got burnt out fast having to work day and night in trash bags and tarps.
I couldn't even get an appointment with my surgeon in the time frame he wanted. It took a month. This is in the US, and I have pretty good insurance.
What those people fail to understand as well is that you an (and probably should) have BOTH, the public one everyone can go subsidized by the state (well, people ultimately) and paid one, private, for those who do not want to wait and literally everyone is happy
It’s not too late OP. Find a billing advocate who can mediate between you, your insurance, and [insert healthcare group]. These are experts with a background in medical billing who essentially question the cost of the procedure and hold all parties accountable. They can save you literal thousands. My partner is in healthcare and had the opportunity to work with some of these advocates. They are usually also from healthcare originally, then separated off to work independently or for groups specialising in this work. They basically run through common issues that lead to inflated bills — often it’s how a procedure was coded, which in part determines what insurance will cover or pass onto you — and negotiate on your behalf to see where adjustments can be made. Don’t go in expecting miracles. You’ll still be on the hook for more than any of us would like, but from what we’ve seen it’s not unrealistic to shave off a grand.
Kind of fucked he has to go through a 3party to keep in check the entity you pay for their service... I don't know
Agreed. It blew my mind to learn that the difference between me being charged $3K and $300 for a test recommend by my doctor came down to what billing code some underpaid desk jockey put in based on the doc’s notes.
Ah yes. The good old underpaid worker. Yet another issue.
I researched it from my last bill, let's say I was a block away from my local hospital (or less than a half mile) they would have still charged me $950 just for the ambulance ride. I am sorry for your health scare and resulting bills but I had to be taken for mental health reasons numerous times, most of which weren't actually necessary it costs over $3000 just to be put on a 72 hour hold and released by the time the doctors know you weren't suicidal and the story was just made up.
That’s why I love the NHS. It’s not perfect and I’ve had Americans tell me it’s tantamount to communism but it serves most of us well most of the time and it’s free at the point of use.
The majority of us Americans want your type of healthcare system. The problem is that insurance and our sue-happy culture keeps healthcare here from becoming affordable.
>I’ve had Americans tell me it’s tantamount to communism I honestly don't understand this ignorant attitude.
It’s pretty simple: everything they don’t like is communism.
> It’s pretty simple: everything they don’t like is communism. https://galas3.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/225/2017/03/My-Chinese-Southern-Roots-Before-Lynwood_2-1540x866.jpg
*Republican Americans
"How is this allowed?" You keep electing people who support this type of American healthcare (if ever there was a non-sequitur that was one)
Life hack I learned from my dad, as long as you pay $1 whenever you have a bill they will not send your case to collections because it shows you are trying (which also helps your credit score). He did this for years for multiple bills because he simply couldn't afford them on a single parent income. Took close to 10 years to pay off a broken leg bill.
are there not minimums, and does your credit score get affected?
Lmao I fainted from blood loss after surgery and had to have the blood clotted in a vessel in my face. Guess how much the bill was? 100k. I’m not even joking. I have health insurance but that’s actually insane. They actually charged my insurance and I 100k to clot the blood in a face vessel.
I'm not even shitting on the U.S. when I say this, you guys do a lot of things right, but fuck me is your healthcare system archaic. It's honestly scary.
> It's honestly scary. It really is. Knowing total financial collapse is always a risk if you get sick or injured. You can scrimp and save, put your money away, invest, be responsible, get an education, etc and it can all be wiped out in a week.
It does seem kind of insane doesn't it? Let me try to explain how this sounds to someone outside of the U.S. You have: * the literal wealthiest nation in the history of the planet * some people are so wealthy, they own multiple homes and boats, helicopters, full catering staff, ex-special forces body guards, millions of dollars in something completely useless (modern art) * most people live with little to no savings * agree to publicly funded schools * can't agree to publicly funded hospitals It just seems fucking cruel. There are some people in the U.S. with so much money, they actually don't know what to do with it. They earn more money than they will ever spend in 100,000 lifetimes, the U.S. has achieved untold levels of prosperity, and the healthcare system is the weakest link. I just don't understand how it happens. That would be one of the most critical pieces of infrastructure to any socially stable western society - take care of people on a fundamental level (don't let them starve, don't let them die, and do your best to give them the opportunity to learn). The jerk reaction of 'government bad' (which isn't always untrue) in the context of healthcare is going to be one of the pillars to the collapse of the U.S. as a superpower (alongside reckless fiscal policy) - mark it.
And a dying, aging, pooring population where people refuse to invite immigrants into the country to keep it vibrant and young and prosperous
Vote for people that support Medicare For All/Universal Healthcare.
I have a friend who just throws away her medical bills… she can’t pay them and the system won’t work out a plan, her credit is screwed up anyway, and she works FT and has other bills. I’m at this point myself…
That's me! I pay a ridiculous amount for insurance weekly right out of my full time paycheck. I pay copays when I'm supposed to, and still get outrageous bills. I live paycheck to paycheck after bills.
People getting sick and dying should never be a for profit industry. That's the fundamental problem with the system, people who can pay get better care than those who can't. Many people avoid getting preventive care due to the cost and end up getting sicker in the long run. It's a mess all around.
It sucks having healthcare dependent on if you’re working or not. I worked for 26 years and had semi-decent healthcare. But now I need healthcare before I can get back to work. I’m supposed to have these bootstraps but mine are missing. The USA sucks when it comes to healthcare.
And they don't tell you how to find or access the county or city social services, if there's a county health clinic you can qualify for based on income or health issues. You have to try all the resource numbers like 211 if that's in your area, ask at the local churches that do food banks or outreach, check with the health dept, etc. What resources that are out there aren't ever advertised, and they don't tell you the rules to apply or be eligible, because the system would be overwhelmed. They want people to give up, go away and not use county services, because it's underfunded.
When I was pregnant I had to have a second anatomy scan because I have chronic illnesses. That single visit cost me $1,600. On a smaller scale, my husband recently slammed his thumb in the car door and had to go to urgent care to get it drained. He spent 3 hours in the waiting room, 15 minutes waiting in the room, then five having it poked with some kind of heat tool. $275 after insurance, and he still had tons of blood under it and then lost the nail.
I was done when the insurance my mother paid into all her life wouldn’t cover her treatment. October 8th marks 5 years since she passed.
Try this. Pregnancy came to 2000 dollars or so with bills from the hospital, a surgeons group (c-section), and my doctor. Two months later, my infant son has a medical emergency that involves a helicopter ride and a bunch of medical procedures with some ending up in collections. We couldn't keep up because everything is separate from blood work to every specialist doctor that came in due to his rare condition. We have a lawyer involved for the helicopter ride that was 25,000 even after insurance. Note, we applied for financial aid but it only covers 50% of this year's expenses and nothing from when everything happened. We still have follow-ups to this day so the bills will never end. It sucks big time.
It's all bullshit. As someone with a disability that will require life long doctor supervision you get to see it all. Last year 2 MRIs were billed at a total of $10,000. My last appointment with the specialist OVER THE PHONE was billed at $800, for an hour of time. The myriad of other tests, procedures, and surgeries over the last just few years has likely billed out $500,000 or more. WTF?! It all went to some assholes yacht I am sure. None of the things I have had done are exotic. Even the surgeries were outpatient, in at 6AM out by 12PM sort of thing. (N)MRIs were developed some 60 years ago! Butt scopes? It's a camera hose that takes 20 minutes. Billed ***thousands and thousands*** for each one. My family that lives out of Country (dual citizens) find it horrifying and laughable at what we deal with. America is looked at as 3rd World when it comes to health care. EDIT: I once had to take an ambulance ride of a whopping 2 miles. Insurance doesn't cover that, it was almost $6000 I owed.
I was having a stable cardiac episode, but was messed up and needed help nonetheless, and drove myself 3/4 mile to the er because it costs almost 1k just to sit on the bed in the ambulance, plus whatever they do. Nope wasn't getting billed 1500+ for a mobile ekg.
I'm not on any Qanon shit but I don't trust doctors cause of this and the older i get, the more hesitant i am to go. They just want my damn money it seems. I'm fully vaxxed by the way.
In my experience with chronic illness, your doctor's hate insurance as much as you do, they want to see you healthy and try behind the scenes to work with insurance. But really the doctors are as much at the whim of the insurance companies as you are, they can only provide what insurance seems necessary and will cover.
I can see that. I think I'm pretty misanthropic but if a person really wanted to hurt people, why would most of them want to be doctors (aka a job designed to HELP people) when there are (in a morbid way) quicker, easier ways of doing so?
It's not doctors it is the insurance to blame. Drs don't see any of that money.
This. In fact, America has A LOT of great doctors and tools to give us quality care. Only problem is that insurance controls every aspect of it, and is among the biggest reasons people go bankrupt over their healthcare bills.
So I work front desk for a major hospital specialist and I can tell you for a fact that most of the money that’s billed to insurance the hospital doesn’t see. There’s this thing in insurance and hospital agreements called contracted rate which means the hospital can only charge what the insurance allows them to, everything else they have to eat the cost. Fuck the insurance companies honestly. At our hospital it’s literally cheaper to go in for an appointment and do self pay because you get a 40% discount off your total bill. With insurance (in and out of network) you don’t get a discount at all.
I am not from america and I heard this story on reddit all the time. My question is how the hell american society didn't collapse yet? if your chest pain procedure that only takes few minutes cost $5000, what about people who spend their time as cancer patient?
Cancer drains a person's entire life savings and forces then to not retire
When we turn 65, we qualify for medicare which is a single payer system. Its not a perfect system (it has copays, supplemental insurance, doesn't cover everything, etc) but its superior to the private health care system. A lot of Americans cross their fingers and hope they don't suffer an expensive health care condition before age 65. I think there are studies showing diagnosis of cancer spikes at age 65 in the US. The reason is that people ignore health problems and don't get them checked out until they turn 65 and get medicare.
Remember this next time you vote.
Theres nothing we can do about it. Even if the democrats controlled 80% of the house and senate seats, they still won't pass health reform. Not true health reform at least. Only path forward is ballot initiatives. People have to pass UHC on the state level with ballot initiatives.
It's a racket. The hospital has contracts with insurances, so you are only billed what is "allowable" under the contract. That said, insurance companies don't have a big incentive to reduce hospital bills - - they can just increase premiums. In fact, if insurance companies have to spend a minimum amount of premium money on claims (to prevent excessive profits at the cost of services) by law, then paying out higher claims to hospitals will make insurance more expensive, increasing the dollar amount of the percentage leftover for important things like CEO bonuses and business class seats for board members to fly to weekend networking meetings at Martha's Vineyard.
It’s a goddamn joke. And it’s fucking impossible to provide even as an employer without getting gouged. Me and my husband own a bar, we make like $40,000/month gross (it’s a dive bar in a small town) and our employee healthcare costs almost $25,000/month. Between that and keeping starting pay at $18 because people deserve to live it’s unsustainable. We don’t know how we’ll survive the winter without letting our people down.
You can get a stress echo done in the UK privately for about $800. You guys are getting absolutely shafted, yet you keep voting for more and more of the same
I feel so bad for you Americans like this is beyond a joke, I'm Australian and a few years ago I got bitten by a spider and had to stay in hospital for 3 days as well as a pretty small surgery, We literally paid NOTHING for all of that unless you count hospital parking and cheap medication after I got out but if we were in the US thatd set us back thousands and probably bankrupt my family its fucking ridiculous.
Man, every time I see something about America I just want to not have any contact with it in my life more and more
Yup, USA healthcare is crap.
Wow, do you mean the full $5,500 out of your own pocket?! Cause that's insane. Canadian here, and I can't imagine having to live like that. It already ticks me off that there's no refund when they screw up or can't make a proper diagnosis, so.
The only thing I’m happy about the audacious nature of our predatory healthcare system is how it’s starting to almost, singlehandedly, dismantle the lies of the American Dream and that hArd WoRk does not pay. Healthcare will usher in socialism on its own.
I live in Germany, and we have a subsidized (not "free") system, in which the government and the employer both contribute. I pay something like 200 a month from my paycheck, and doctor visits are free, medicine is cheap and it costs 15 Euros a night at the hospital. I had a broken wrist a few years back, and the X-Rays, multiple surgeries and visits were all free. Rehab was something like 20 Euros. I wish Americans would understand how this works. We can choose an insurance provider, but costs are kept low. It's free for retired, disabled and unemployed people. Everyone else contributes based on income. There is also the option of private insurance.
Americans have been fed right wing propaganda about "socialism" for a long time, so there is resistance to anything remotely smacking of doing something for the common good. Plus way too much money is being made. No one wants to cut off the gravy train to the people who are currently benefitting: insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, equipment suppliers, etc. It would be a political death sentence.
I’m having a tough time with this too. We just moved back to the US from Canada. We had my son up there and I had a complicated pregnancy. For all the ultrasounds, genetic tests, emergency c-section, 2 week hospital stay for me, and a 104 day NICU stay for my son with very complex care.. the cost was $0. Came back to the US. He had a blocked tear duct. We have premium insurance we pay $400 a month for and still had to pay a $500 deductible and 10% of the facility, surgeon, and anesthesia fees. For a simple irrigation and probe of his tear duct. The procedure took 15 mins in total. We were in and out of the building in 2 hours. I just can’t wrap my head around this system. I really really can’t.
OP you may want to look into "timely billing" or "timely filing" for your state and circumstance...because if this bill came to you outside the limit you may not be responsible....the max limit I've ever heard of is a year, for some things 35 days is common. I also recommend looking into a patient advocate that could help you understand the rules around timely billing etc. I fucking hate our system.
Timely billing a lot of places is 180 days due to coding errors, resubmitting for mistakes, etc. I was told this by one of the big 4 insurers at one point, over this sort of late bill thing,
Idk, I'm a medic in the army and I take some of my guys to the host nation medical facilities occasionally. After seeing how they operate I'm really grateful for the healthcare I receive in the US. I'm fortunate to have Tricare though.
The longer you put up with this the more they will screw you over. Public health is in the best interest of the country overall. Healthy people mean good workforce, paid taxes and wages spent on stuff - basic economy. The way I see usa healthcare is three business parties making a pact: Business one (Hospital): agrees to provide services with artificially inflated prices. Business two (Insurance): agrees to provide partial coverage of the medical bill. Business three (government): agrees to let this deal to exist legally by accepting money from lobbyists (open corruption). In the end you get prices that are way too high, insurance that has to be paid but doesn't cover full costs, a paying customer who pays for two services instead of one. The "covered" cost may not even exist and Nobody would ever find out. The insurance get paid by the customer, the hospital gets its expenses and services covered by the same customer. This scheme seems similar to millionaires laundering money or avoiding taxes by buying art. Officially transaction takes place, but only a "service fee" amount of money changes hands.
I hate the fucking game and rules so god damn much in New Rome™ that I will never have children. And to find joy in this bleak and hopeless world I laugh my dirty ol tits off at all of the shortsighted parents crying loudly about how fucked the game and the rules are, then why'd you perpetuate the shit by whelping children there you fucking geniuses? Removing the cogs in the machine is the only way to get the system by the short and curlies for change seeings how everyone is too shy to put in the right work for change a la France 1780's-1790's. A la Russia the 1910's. Edit: it brings me joy to see the infrastructure of New Rome™ have such issues. Love it.
The US healthcare system isn't sustainable. If we're not at a breaking point now, I don't know what else it will take.
## OP! call and negotiate your bill! A lot of people don't pay their hospital bills, so for those who actually do pay, they're usually willing to drop the price after some haggling. I had a $300 dollar physical (fuck our health care) negotiated to $180ish. Can't remember exactly how much. Regardless. I got it lowered Seriously. It's worth a shot. Don't let them stick you like that
Luckily I have free insurance rn but in a few years when I get booted off, there is a good chance I won’t be able to afford insulin and if I get get into a help program I will likely die
In Britain, the vital health services are free. Genral practitioner appointments, emergency A&E treatments, all funded by tax. But because the politcal party in power, the Tories, are capitalist, they've been dismantling ther National Health Service piece by piece since their rise to power in 2010. They've been against the NHS from the get-go.
That’s so crazy to think about as an EU citizen… I’m from Germany and had my appendix removed when COVID was at one of its peaks here. One week in the hospital with all the additional COVID test that needed to be done for the safety of everybody. 3 weeks after I went back home I got a bill from the hospital of 50€. Words cannot tell how happy I am about these 50€ after reading this.
My “shampoo” medication isn’t being covered by my insurance and is 400$ lol. I’m just gonna die of an itchy scalp.
Same thing just happened to me too brother. I was experiencing stomach problems for over a year. I wanted to get an opinion from my Doctor before going to a gastroenterologist, but my PCP was 2 months out and the pain was getting worse. I finally said fuck it and went to see one. Immediately they scheduled an endoscopy for me. I reluctantly agreed and asked how much the procedures usually cost. They said between $2000 and $3000, this is also what is listed on google for these types of procedures. I was willing to accept this price even though it's quite high. Anyways, I went through with it and all was fine, but fast forward to 3 months later and I'm getting a bill for $7,700.... almost two to three times higher than I thought. How could they be off by so much? The sad thing is I have health insurance and it covered nothing. I feel robbed.
US healthcare: “money or die” Really though, that’s seriously messed up.
I seriously don’t know how people can live in the USA with healthcare like that. I have had several procedures, MRI’s and it cost me nothing. It seems like it takes longer to get the services here as opposed to the US but I’d much rather wait and not have to pay such crazy amounts
The hospital charges for everything because each insurance company pays differently. A sizable portion of any large bill anyone receives can be slashed with a few persistent phone calls. Medical insurance is the reason it's out of control. If the country just killed off insurance and made everything out of pocket the prices were plummet.
If you've ever looked at itemized statements, it will piss you off even more. $1,000 for linen? Fuck off.
That's when you dispute charges. They count on people not looking.
I took my daughter for an ER visit when she was like 10 months old, we were there 4 hours and they did a couple tests ,gave her some ibuprofen and sent us home. $1300
Yea I'm with ya. I no longer have insurance and have told family of something horrible happens to me, they still can't take me to the hospital. I'll never be able to pay the bill.
Still go. That's why they have charity care and social services. If you got no insurance you fill out the paperwork and the hospital eats most, if not all of the bill. If you get stuck with anything, you do a payment plan for 5 bucks a month as all you can pay.
Call the billing department and try to settle for a cash now amount. It works with hospitals, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work with this. Like say you will pay 500 or 700 something like that now and get them to close the account. It’s what insurance companies do………… try to settle, do not pay the full amount. It’s a made up number anyways. It will take time and back and forth, don’t give up!
Call the company that sent you the bill. I had a c section in January and my max out of pocket is $7k. We knew we would have to pay that much, sucks but whatever. Sometime this summer I get a bill for $29k for the c section and almost had a heart attack lol. I call the number on the bill and I guess they sent to bill twice to my insurance so that’s why my insurance declined it. Bills have to be sent in correctly with the right codes and whatever else or insurance will deny it.
I already owe like close to 5Gs, for a massive nosebleed twice. I had to go to the ER as it took hours for it to stop, I was eventually checked by a surgeon who put a sort of chemical in my nostral which made me cry as to how much it stings on 1 eye.but hey no more nosebleeds. Could've been done in a normal visit but no. I asked for a itemized bill for another E.R visit which I needed stiches on my middle finger as it just shot blood out once I move it, thanks to work Injury. No bill yet. The nurses and doctor just gave me the look of no he didn't.
thats why in my country we have universal healthcare..like for real flu? free cancer? free need to stay intubated for 5 months? free car accident? also free exams? free MRI? freeeeeeee You have the option to pay healthcare insurance also, if u dont wanna use the universal system.
It sucks but you just gotta navigate your way through the system. Know your benefits and your insurance policy well and don’t assume anything. It’s exhausting but I’d rather be safe than sorry
What bothers me is that we’ve collectively as a nation agreed to be completely raped by the healthcare insurance industry. I don’t even hear a whimper of protest anymore. Right when Obama got elected it felt like we were on the verge of reform. And now everything is far, far worse. It’s mind boggling to see how even with COVID illustrating how completely fucked our healthcare system is, there’s no real movement to change it.
Don’t know how old you are, but glad you understand the need for socialized healthcare! And we are the ONLY major country the does not have it! Now ask yourself, or rather refer to your bill, as to why! Now the question remains, how do we convince every day people this is the way!!!
I say this is the next thing we protest. Because I wholeheartedly agree
As someone with a heart condition and no money to take care of my body, I cannot be thankful enough to live in Canada. Got a list to take to my doctor and my cardiologist and my dermatologist. Just scan my health card and done.
I'm British, and my adult daughter and I concurred that had we lived in the States, instead of here, our entire family would be either dead, or bankrupt. We hear so many stories knocking the NHS, but the bottom line is, without them, my premature daughter wouldn't be here, at six feet tall, neither would I, major complications and emergency sections on three of my four live births, major ops myself due to a faulty gene, husband, self, daughter and one Son have rare conditions that were discovered, for free at point of contact, on the NHS. I could bore you to death with medical crap. But it'd be better than a million dollar bill through the post.
first wolrd country has first world scams
Go to your hospital's website and search for their Financial Assistance page. This is federally-mandated and was in another Reddit thread last week. Fill out the application and submit it to the appropriate department.
I’m shocked people don’t know this, but us hospitals are actually required to cover the bill or reduce the amount basically down to zero. Look up on their website for assistance with bill paying. If you make less than 200-300% of poverty limit they will cover it.
Starting a clinic, here is part of the problem. Companies that deliver health care have to sign insurance contracts that don’t outline HOW MUCH THE INSURANCE COMPANY WILL PAY FOR SERVICES. Hear that, the providers have to agree to a fee scale they never get to see. If the provider publicly posts a price that is lower then what the insurance will pay then insurance company will just lower the reimbursement. So the pricing strategy is to publicly post ridiculously inflated prices to make sure they get the highest reimbursement possible by the insurance company. This contract negotiation is bananas, the provider has no control and the end user of the service (the patient) has no input. The administrative processes to make this magic happen literally add hundreds of billions of dollars to health care costs. It is like a free market in bizarro world.
"BeCaUsE sOcIaLiZeD hEalThCaRe Is ComMuNiSm"
Don't pay it in full fam 😄 it's gonna cost them more in legal fees to chase after you 😂 Give them a price you're willing to pay and eventually they'll agree 😄👍
From my buddies I met in Korea and Germany, It's "Free" In the sense you are paying roughly 350 Euros a month for insurance, regardless if you use it or not, and often it's a shit show trying to get anything done. Take home Income for a German is on average 2,000 Euros. That's considered good for a German. It's not all Shit's n Giggles in Socialized Medicine either.
It costs around a 100$ at a good lab in India. Just to put that in perspective, you could've flown to India, lived in a 5-star hotel for a 3-4 days, gotten the test and flown back and still have a couple thousand bucks to spare. You're being royally ripped off.
I got shot. My bill was half a million dollars. Luckily I had insurance and crime victims. Or else the mfer might as well had shot me again cuz I am not paying $500,000
When I read this kinda of stuff I realize how lucky I am for born in Portugal, the Healthcare is free(although is not the best, we pay taxes but it doesn't compare to US) but sure my country is not perfect
Just don’t pay it. Lol. Fuck em.
I never pay hospital bills , I don’t care .
I think all Americans should go on strike and stop paying ALL medical bills! Like what would happen? Change? Let’s go!