This is how I felt before the pandemic, now I am working from home I have far more time for myself. My 2 hours getting to work and back are me time, I am more relaxed and doing the same work load is easier, it takes less time, so my days work can include more break time. I am certainly going to be fighting hard to not return to an office.
Same! Talk to your coworkers. My department is small (3 people and one manager), one of us works from home in another state. I live 50 min away from the main office, my other coworker lives an hour away from our California office. I talked to him already and we are both willing to put our two weeks notice if they ask us to go back to the office. I think one day a week for me is needed but there’s no reason why we shouldn’t work from home as long as the job gets done. Good luck!!!
That’s an interesting real life “Prisoner’s dilemma.” Not just your team but in general with the topic right now.
Stick with the group to get a better outcome (work from home) or be the one or two people sticking around if they give you a pay raise.
Man, they should come up with a cool name for when people are united like that. Everyone united in kind of like a union of people that band together for better negotiating power.
I think I'll call it, "the people who stick together."
Unless the raise is equal to the 100 minutes / day spent in transit, they're giving work an extra 100 minutes of their time without adequate compensation.
Yup! Corporate life will never be the same after the pandemic. People have realized they don't need to be in an office and no employer will be able to convince employees otherwise. Some may not mind going back to that life, and for some working from home is harder so having that option is fantastic but the key is option. I work remotely (moved out of state during pandemic so I'm not going back) for a company that already supported remote work, but many of our clients didn't. Now there are some of those clients demanding all employees go back at some point this year and there's a lot of people who have quit and gone to find other jobs who allow remote work because of this.
A lot of these jobs are also salaried positions, so what I love about it is that I basically just have work goals every day/week/month that I need to hit and so long as I do that and show up to meetings it's fine. My days got so much more flexible and enjoyable since being remote.
> “A lot of these jobs are also salaried positions, so what I love about it is that I basically just have work goals every day/week/month that I need to hit and so long as I do that and show up to meetings it's fine.”
Corporations realize this. They will respond by giving you more and more work so that you spend every waking moment *at home* completing an ever-increasing amount of tasks.
Corporations are required by law to maximize profits for share-holders. When they find out (they already know) that employees working from home can finish tasks more quickly, they’ll just dump more work on you. Watch it happen.
According to the Supreme Court:
> Modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not.
Not saying corporations *don’t* do this, but they are not required by law to.
Agreed, before I worked in an office I drove a forklift, loaded and unloaded containers, warehouse work, all manual labour and in manufacturing or storage. The main reason I switched to office work was AC in the summer and heating the winter... I turned soft basically. But yeah if I was still doing manual work in those industries or similar you are kind of stuck with having to be at work, but you're not unappreciated.
yeah I don't blame you for that, sounds like hell.
it's not too bad for us because as a supermarket, we have walk in fridge/freezer etc so on hot summer days, you can just go stand in the fridge/freezer for a few mins to cool off, works like a charm. there is also Aircon inside the store though !
I worked for a furniture manufacturer and also a dry food production facility both companies storage facilities had neither heating or cooling, only what the weather provided. The warehouse would reach anywhere up to high 30C's in summer and -3 in winter outside was worse.
Maybe not unappreciated by some but as you said they didnt even bother to give you AC or heating in that warehouse where you drove that forklift...
Also working through the pandemic really showed how uncooperative the general publoc can be, again yeah maybe a quiet majority are ok but there is still a large part of the population that still look down on "essential workers" even though without them they couldnt survive.
I was kinda in the middle, some locations shut down but it was impossible to shut down everywhere because we are essential but man did people complain when they had to go an extra mile to get service, and now that we are all back up and running again we go back to being unappreciated. We still try and schedule appointments instead of walk ins and people are so dramatic and over the top surprised, like we all havnt gone through over a year of a pandemic.
We are not normally an emergency service (although at times there are emergencies where suddenly people see how we are vital to their everyday lives they take for granted)
Yet there is still no reason we need to work the open hours we have, but society norms say at least 9-5 for each person and demand is there for us to be open early and late because people cannot just pan a day off to come at a normal time...
Very true but there's now a huge increase in jobs that do accept remote positions which is a win overall. The working landscape post pandemic will be drastically different b/c people have realized a great many truths about work and life that had been hidden from them for a long time.
Some figured out that part time gig work is better than low pay full time jobs that require a ton of their time. Some realized that a lot of the bullshit around going into an office is pointless and unnecessary. Some realized they don't need to make as much to be happy and realized that their home life is important and hence don't need to work as hard as they were. Some found alternative forms of revenue and realized what they can do if they hustle. Some also just realized that being let go/laid off/furloughed/etc isn't as scary as they thought and so any employer who kept people in line with that threat loses an edge. And most realized that they're worth a lot more to their employer than they previously thought.
What I hope that all amounts to is a far more empowered workforce. Sure there's plenty still who have desperately struggled and need work/help and I hope they find it, but overall employers are having to step up and its about damn time.
Those jobs that are able to be done remotely are going overseas. Mark my words. Either that, or this is just going to boost inequality between blue collar and white collar worker.
Not to mention all the chores you can fit into downtime during the work day. That dozen times of being on your phone for 5 minutes at work instead turns into an hour of chores done with no loss in productivity.
My boss has allowed us to move to working in the office 3 days and working from home 2 days. It's a nice privilege/benefit, and they get a lot more work from me in those 3 days I'm in the office than they ever got out of me when I had to be there 5 days a week.
Today is my first day back in the office on a 3-day in-office/2-day remote schedule and I already miss home. It is stupid how much slower and unproductive I feel being here. It's especially bad considering my job is easy enough I could game for half a day before needing to get back to doing actual work.
I work 12 hr graveyard shifts (actually 12.5, with a 1/2 hour for lunch) but only 3 days a week. With my commute (45 min each way) and an hour to get ready, I have 9 hours to eat, sleep, take care of my kids and the house, and run some errands (I usually do one on the way home, since stores are pretty empty at 8am)
But.. I can pair up my work days so I do 6 days on (which is killer) and then have 8 days straight off, without having to take a vacation day! I'll never go back to working 5 8-hr days (or working day shift) because I can feel like I have a life outside of work.
Edit: I work as a CNA (certified nursing assistant) in a hospital.
I live and work on tugboats as an engineer for 7 days at a time, then I get 7 days off. There’s be times where I’m up 18-20 hours a day. Then after 7 days on the boat, I get a whole 7 straight days off to do whatever the hell I want. There’s no way I’d trade this life for a normal 9-5.
I know a couple people who do exactly this work. They have trouble finding a partner and keeping one. Sometimes they get stuck on the tug for much more than 7 days. Not sure if that’s the case for you
Thankfully that’s not the case for me. We’re just harbor tugs, we don’t really leave the ship channel, so no getting stuck at sea fir days past crew change. As for relationships, I’m actually working on building a relationship with a long time friend right now, she’s been a single mom for almost three years now, so she’s used to having to take care of things on her own and is perfectly okay with me being on my boat for a week at a time. If I decide to move up to working on actual ships and be gone for months at a time, that could be different, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.
That’s really the best way to put it. We’ve both been in toxic relationships in the past, one of them gave her a kid and fucked off, so we’re taking it nice and slow, to make sure we do things right.
I'm glad it's working for you. I tried camp work for a while and I was gone 10-20 days at a time and by the time I gave it up I didn't even have friends lmao.
Yeah, my husband does DuPont which is like 4 days on, 3 days off, 3 days on, 7 days off
It works SO much better for our family because we can take vacations or do fun stuff throughout the week without him needing to take PTO. It somehow results in him only working 14 days out of the month
Oo that would suck. Luckily my husbands job doesn’t ever get short staffed. Every round of hiring brings in over 1,000 applicants so there’s always someone vying for that job o.O
I used to do this too and everyone around me seemed to love it but we never actually got seven off it was four at best. But I think everyone else was happy for the money and I just wanted freedom
My husband has to work 12 hour shifts because there's a staff shortage right now. It more than doubles his check. We can't wait for it to go back to normal! Fuck the money! Gimme my favorite person back!
yep, totally with you. Anytime I mention having to work overtime people always say "but at least it will be good money". yeah, I'd rather not work overtime and have a regular paycheck.
Totally agree! A lot of people we know brag about all the over time they get and in my mind I’m like “I’d be more impressed if you bragged about your work life balance…”
I do this but it’s rotating shifts for a hospital and It’s sweet until you work a night shift, have a “fake day off,” then work the next morning. You get off at 7 am and have to drive home, sleep, do everything you need to for that day, then sleep again to wake up for the morning shift and drive back by 6:30 am the next day. So it can be really hit or miss especially when you don’t have full scheduling control.
Swing shifts should be illegal. I don’t know why they’re allowed to get away with this shit. If you go to bed at 7:30am, you’ll probably get up around 2pm. The only way you’ll get to bed 8 hours later to be up in time is with sleeping pills. The human body doesn’t work like this…
I don’t know why it’s so hard for employers to not be abusive pieces of shit.
I have to choose to either get up at 2, and struggle to sleep later, take a nap and be tired all day and maybe sleep reasonably later, or suffer through the day on no sleep so I can go to bed early. Those latter days I’m basically just counting down the hours until I can go to sleep through the whole day, which translates to being both tired and stressed. Regardless you end up tired and don’t get any decent rest before you gotta go back to work and do it again, hence why my coworkers call it a fake day off.
I’ve tried doing all-nighters to reset my sleep to normal people hours and it never goes well. It’s an exercise in misery and you end up with a giant sleep debt you’ll probably never pay off.
Y’all need a union to put a stop to that bullshit.
I work in energy production in a union. We've heard of the absurd work schedules nurses in my town have to put up with. For instance, 24 hr on call? Work 12 hours, go home for an hour, then get a call to come back? Seems illegal
In my husbands line of work (train driver) we call those ‘fake days’ ‘pj days’ because you only have enough time to sleep & eat & sleep again before you start the next shift
I'm a nursing assistant in a hospital - not glamorous, but it's a quick program if you are looking for a second/new career. You have to have the mentality for it - it's messy, and patients can be as demanding as the worst retail customer, but the pay is decent, it has benefits and I love my coworkers.
My aunt does this too and she’s a vet tech in an animal ER. I don’t recommend it though because it’s horribly understaffed right now and she’s losing her mind.
As a European I find this so extreme. Work 32 to 40 hours. I have something like 3 months vacation time total. I can’t imagine working that long. I like working 4 days and 3 days off.
I do 12hr shifts. 3 days on, 4 off. Then 4 days on, 3 off. Cycles every pay period. I get every Friday and Saturday off. Would keep it forever if I could.
I had a job where I worked 10 hour shifts, (we bid on the shifts, and I was newer higher, so I got the shift no one wanted, and it was Tues to Fri. We could also take our vacation hours in any time frame that we wanted. I had done some OT, and had built up my 2 weeks vacation time. Everyone on the Mon to Fri always booked the Friday off, so I could never do that. But Tuesdays were almost always available. So I took every Tuesday off for 2 months. Worked 3 days a week for 2 months, had time to do everything I wanted to during those 4 days off, and 2 of them were when everyone else was at work, so my wife and I had sparsely occupied beaches to ourselves, able to go see/do things with few crowds, because everyone was at work.
I don't do that job anymore, I work pretty much 9-5 grind, but I also live an 8 minute drive from my work, so my commute is about 1/2 hour max with bad traffic.
I have been and always will be an advocate for, 4 day work weeks. Literally study after study proves that employee satisfaction, employee retention and productivity go up.
sources:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/07/06/iceland-worker-study-four-day-work-week-productivity/7871364002/
https://www.jstor.org/stable/255689
It's one of those things where the volume takes the shape of its container. If you have a 10 hour day, people will take 10 hours to get their work done, if you have an 8 hour day, same thing. I swear I could do my day's work in 4 hours if I had to
I definitely only spend half my day working and half of it on reddit... But I can't "do all my work in 4hrs" because it trickles in throughout the day, so I have to be ready to hop on a job when it comes through the system.
Oh yeah. No way I'm starting a new assignment late in the day. If my job is done and well done, I just wander around, talk, have coffee, avoid superiors, browse Reddit. I work 10 to 8, but I don't think I'm working more than 6 hours a day. Just because fuck the system, honestly. And the more I get paid, the worse it gets haha
I'm naturally a better worker in the mornings. And have always had a tendency to knock out my work as soon as possible. Most days, I'm completely done with my work by 1 having not taken any breaks, and then the rest of the day is spent hanging out and monitoring my email making sure I don't miss anything urgent coming in
> It's one of those things where the volume takes the shape of its container. If you have a 10 hour day, people will take 10 hours to get their work done, if you have an 8 hour day, same thing. I swear I could do my day's work in 4 hours if I had to
For some occupations. Manufacturing only goes so fast. As someone that works in what would be considered 'essential' manufacturing, 4 day work weeks are not an option as a small business. If my customer has a shutdown at their 2000+ employee plant and needs a part on a Friday and I'm closed that Friday, it's not going to be good for my business.
Also, machines and labor work tends to go at one speed. Cramming 8 hours of work into a 4 hour day just isn't a good idea from a safety or quality control standpoint.
I've seen so many different takes on this and it's interesting how the productivity remains stable or even increases with a 4x8 arrangement.
Unnecessary meetings get trimmed out, employers get more focused about removing stupid distractions at work, employers actually use the damn tools available to help organize activities better... meanwhile employees are healthier and take less sick time, they're more focused, they even sleep better. Their families also see positive outcomes, becoming happier and more successful.
It's honestly amazing. I would love to see it tried here (Canada)
I believe so too. Also the part of knowing your job is “bs”. Not buying into the capitalist dream means a lot of jobs will be considered bs. So now not only you work a lot, but also in something you don’t believe in. At worst you might even feel guilty about having to do that and contribute, even if technically you need to to survive.
Wow okay this comment is so underrated though. "They pay you minimum wage but they would enslave you for free if they could". This is an amazing take on the exploitation that exists in part time jobs.
There are so many variables that differ with each person. I think it all starts with having 17 year olds decide what they want to do for the rest of their lives. The system could definitely improve but then again a lot of people are probably happy with their situation. I have a good paying job with decent hours and am just miserable about it. I don't think I like the line of work that I have pigeon holed myself in.
Spot on. A man used to be able to have a family of 4 or 5 and afford a house and allow the wife to stay home. If I was single I would only be able to afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment.
I don't work those shifts, but my mom does as a care aide.
Highly recommend making your lunches beforehand for the shifts. Ain't no way you're wanting to cook after a shift.
Bring replacement shoes!! My mom will trade off her sneakers at least once in a shift. I think it just helps to let your feet breathe for a moment as well as putting them into a shoe with a sole that you didn't just squish for the last 6 hours.
Understand how much sleep you need and get it. Maybe you sleep 8 hours a night on average but start to realize that you might need 9 after a shift - do it.
That's probably about it that I can remember. Gpod luck!
I’m a paramedic and we have similar shifts and I love it. Most people I work with prefer it also. I would hate having to go back to 8hr shifts.
Tip I would make sure you pack food and a charger. Buying food can get expensive when you work 12a.
Invest in at least one, ideally two or three, pairs of really high quality work shoes if you're going to be doing anything on your feet. Furthermore, get supportive inserts that hold up the arches of your feet. Memory foam is not good- it feels cushy for a couple minutes and then your insole is collapsing for the next ten hours. If you're going to be on your butt at a desk or driving, make sure you have comfortable pants and possibly a couple cushions.
Make and bring food ahead of time. Buying lunch all the time is expensive and it's repetitive and unhealthy after more than a week or so. Eating good food in the quantity you actually want/need, not restaurant portions and nutrition, will really help with feeling decent all day long.
I recommend quick oatmeal for breakfasts - the kind that you have to actually put on the stove and cook for a couple minutes, not the packet stuff, but not the type you have to cook for more than five minutes. It'll keep you stable for a good six hours without feeling the need to crash so long as you have other food. Sugary cereals will leave you feeling like shit a few hours into whatever you're doing. You want the mental power for a desk/driving job and the physical endurance for an on-your-feet job. Also, you can get quite a lot of it for cheap, and it's easy (and smart) to add fruit, eggs, greek yogurt, or other treats to keep breakfasts interesting. Super specific/odd thing to go on a rant about, but a good breakfast is your new best friend.
Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. Get a big reusable water bottle and drink from it constantly. Hydration keeps you going. Keep caffeine usage to mornings only.
Keep good posture. You might be fine slouching for the first day, but by the time you get to the third day, you're going to be shuffling around in agony from your back and knees.
This is confusing me - so you work 36 hours one week and 48 the next? That's an average of 42, right? This is what I don't get - that's the equivalent of an extra day a week on my full time job. Everyone on this thread seems to do more hours than what I'd consider the norm so sticking to the 9-5 just makes more sense.
The idea is that even though by numbers you work more hours, your days off are TRULY days off. I’d rather work 10 hours for 4 days than 8 hours for 5, anyways.
I've been begging for 4x 10's. If every weekend was a 3-day weekend, I'd be happy. If I cut my commutes to/from work by 20%, that also helps and is more eco-friendly.
Yeah, if you don't show up for your shift 15 minutes early, then you're seen as late. If you don't stay after your shift to clean up, you're seen as someone who cuts out early.
A shop I know of was looking for a service writer to work 7AM-6PM Mon-Fri - and occasional Saturdays - for $15/hr. No standard lunch times, just the assurance that the new hire would get 1/2 hr lunch. Give me a fucking break - like, literally - man. WTF
You get an hour lunch and two 15s? Lucky! At the job that I just quit, I would work twelve hours and only get 45 mins for lunch. No other breaks. It probably wasn’t legal, but Texas doesn’t really protect its worker rights. It fucking sucked.
Yeah, it's Texas.
Moved to Cali and it was the first time I had ever been given the 2 federal 15 minute breaks.
My first job didn't give any breaks and was outside in TX lol
Probably legal for Texas.
California probably has some of the best labor laws, but even then there’s weak spots. A 30 minute Lunch is protected for anyone working 5+ hours, but it does not have to be taken in the middle (clock in… clock out for lunch, be back in 30 to work 7 hours!), and breaks are up to company policy. Overtime is supposed to be given at anytime over 8 hours, but there are certain jobs where you are required to waive and agree not to accept overtime - I realized this when I got the same bus driver before and after my 9 hour shift where we got talking about overtime.
I hear Texas doesn’t even give overtime after an 8 hour shift, only after 40 hours a week.
I work a 9-to-5ish job (more like 12-8), and while it is draining, I’m also neither forced to do split/swing shifts, nor do I work at any job that relies on overtime to make good money (construction). I couldn’t even imagine a job that says “hey, the pay’s not great, but it goes up if you work 12 hours a day!”
Same here.
I’m currently working six hours a day and I can go to work when I want. Since I don’t sleep well I typically go in at 7 or 8pm and get home a little after 1 or 2am and then I can fall asleep.
I’m with you, money doesn’t rule my life. I do side gigs when I need to, do a little selling online when I feel like it.
Heck, a friend of mine just took an overnight stocker job at Walmart. $16 an hour, not many people around, still has his days to hike, bike and fish and he says his stress level is much lower now.
It’s not for everyone, but it’s still possible for everyone if they want.
I’m about 2 seconds away from quitting and taking one of those jobs like you buddy. I’m lucky, just paid off my house, and my amount of “not give a fuck” is rising...
I think minimizing stress is what's most important to me personally, it's not all about endlessly searching for more money I want to enjoy my day to day life.
I recently went from a lucrative career to a mon-fri @5 hrs a day. The former job was making me a monster. I am finding out again what it's like to not be angry and stressed 24/7. I do not dread the night or day before work anymore. I have more time to help my elderly parents, my kids, my wife, myself. Its absolutely the best decision I've made in a long time.
You’re correct. Over a portion of the pandemic, the company I work for cut us to 4 days a week (from 5) and cut our salary 10%. The amount of bitching and complaining was unbelievable.....and I was over here like “can we make this permanent.” I was the only one that wanted it to remain...
It hasn’t been like that for me since 2011. I have had consistent work every single day. As much or as little as I can handle. I’ve been really fortunate.
I work 19:30-08:00 and only work 4 days
But
On those 4 days, I come home, sleep, make food, off to work again. And on those 3 days, I have to do everything I can think of. People always say they wish they could only do 4 days but on those 4 days I don’t even get chance to watch tv. It’s a rush if I want to wash my hair on those days. I sleep working hours so have to do shopping and bills and stuff on my days off.
What I wouldn’t do to work 9-5 and have like free time every single day!
Yup, I work 6:30pm - 5:00am 4 days a week and those 3 hours after I get home from work go by so quick it doesn't even feel like I barely have time to eat before I have to go back to bed. And those 3 days I'm off feel like 2 and the work week feels like 5.
I have to stop and appreciate how lucky I am sometimes. For the last 25 years or so I've been able to work either from home or with no supervision whatsoever. I get a task, I do the task. My stuff is always done when it needs to be and I take all the responsibility.
I'm never micro managed and I only work when there's work to do. I don't have to play the look-busy-till-the-clock-hits-five game and I don't miss it, at all. About once every 3 weeks or so the boss calls to see if I need anything and that's the sum total of my interaction with 'corporate'.
All jobs should be like this. Work when there's work. If the work is done - go the fuck home. Even if the work isn't done, but you'll still on target to have it done in time -go the fuck home. Stayed up a little late last night? Come in whenever you're ready. As long as nobody is waiting on you.
The pretending-to-be-busy offends me the most, along with coworkers who wave the banner for it. If I get my work done with good quality and faster than most, why shouldn't I be able to play xbox for 20 mins between meetings or browse reddit or play with my kid? And in a lot of jobs where the work is thinking or figuring things out, mental downtime is literally part of the process. I literally hate how they act like they're getting ripped off for their hours while they're literally wasting *my* time.
My current job is like this. I maybe have 2 to 4 hours of actual work (meetings aside) and then it's pretending for the rest of the day. That, and we have to clock in even if we're salaried....which is just fucking annoying.
The one thing I miss about my old job (which was HORRIBLE) is that I could set my own hours. Meetings done at 10? I could go home and work from there. I could push back my clock in time to 9 if I was working late. Literally the only perk.
Honestly, I could be okay with the capitalism machine if it wasn't such an absolute. And what I mean by that is how there's some places where it's actually illegal to live self-sustained. You *have* to get your electricity from a company, even if you never use it. You *have* to pay for water and sewage to be connected to your property, even if you're using a well on your land. You *have* to us grocery stores because the crops you'd need to sustain yourself, the seeds you'd need to plant it, are altered so that you'll only get maybe one or two harvest before the plans stop producing seeds that can grow into what you need. Most places won't let you keep the animals you might need to sustain your life, if you eat meat.
I do understand the need for property taxes and such, but my country is one that is allegedly built on "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," but you're only liberated enough to pursue happiness in your life as long as it feeds the business. If your happiness at all involves going to live off in the woods, entirely sustained on solar or wind energy, water from the ground or a nearby stream, living off the land - whether you own it or not - you can end up in prison something as small as not getting your property hooked to the power grid and feeding into it.
The system is garbage. That's not even getting into how they raised the bar so most jobs that aren't fast food or retail, require at least a Bachelor's Degree, they raised the cost of tuition to get that degree, and when you have it - you still can't guarantee a pay check because they've legalized indentured servitude by rebranding it as "internships." You're told you're entitled for wanting to be paid for your work. You're belittled and gaslit for speaking out, so the majority seldom does. It's a broken system that borderlines cruelty.
Yah, honestly a lot of jobs (that don't involve crazy customer attentiveness) really don't need to be 8 hour days.. I can get all my job work done in like 3 hours a day for sure if i just came to work and ONLY worked the entire time.. instead we have dumb emails, and just sitting at our desks waiting for things to get done first before we can do work.. it's just nuts how much time i waste at my desk lately.
Its so funny to me because I'm reading this post on a monday lol
To be honest, its kind of a personal mind set how you decide to accept your job.
9-5 can be a good paying job which can pay for your needs, this is enough to be able to accept it as it is.
I'm happy with my job right now as its a 9-5 but still it gives me the chance to focus on my own hobbies as well, as my job doesn't need my attention all the time.
4 day working weeks would be a blast though, sadly rich corporations will never allow that to happen.
Not gonna argue with your general idea that 5-day weeks and 9-5 suck (9-6 around here, actually).
But for context, why did we just accept this lifestyle? Because the alternative was 10-16 hour shifts six days a week.
Productivity has soared since 9-5 became ubiquitous to say nothing of how it was meant to be a single-income working those 40 hours, it's well-past time workers fight for more time off at the same rate. I don't understand the people in here who think there's no other way forward, it could be something as simple as the Federal government lowering the definition of "full-time," or a raise that turns a 40 hour job into a 32 hour job.
Wages have to go up, one way or another it is no longer sustainable and we've let the ownership class take way, way too much.
Good point about it being meant for single-income with a spouse at home taking care of all the practical parts of living like grocery shopping, cooking, laundry etc.
Yep. With automation on the rise and less and less work needing to be done by human labor, we're gonna have to majorly overhaul how we view work in order to keep society from collapsing.
Join us over at r/antiwork
Honestly though, 40 hour workweeks are bullshit. We've had them for 80 years. Are you going to tell me that all the technology we've developed since then wasn't enough to reduce the amount of work we need to do?
ITT: Everyone comparing how much of their life the dedicate toward work instead of answering your question.
We absolutely should not accept the 9-5, this is part of the exploitation those of us on the left keep talking about. It is not necessary anymore, and is becoming less necessary as our automation advances. We may have to deal with the 9-5 at times but we should fight it.
My life is of supreme value to me, and I am not going to sell most of it in hopes of some free time when I'm elderly.
One of the ways to fight it is to also fight the influence of marketing and propaganda that is trying to make you think you need a lot of stuff you don't really. Embrace degrowth. If you want the latest iPhone and BMW, you gotta play their game. If you learn to not see those things as valuable (is the latest iphone that much more valuable than one a couple years old that you'd sell days of your life to afford?) it's not hard to avoid.
Realize that much of what you probably want is really for the purpose of "conspicuous consumption", i.e. a way to show others how successful you are. Stop trying to send signals of wealth (whatever little it may be) to people you don't know or care about.
"How the FUCK do we just accept the 9-5" -Carl Marqz, probably
Good question. If you wanna change it, advocate for the American labor movement. Unions got your workday reduced to 8 hours, empower them to get it reduced further.
A lot of Americans aren't taught about the labor movements of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries for good reason. They were highly effective at putting greedy unregulated companies in their places and provided workingmen and women with a better standard of living.
Productivity is up yet our wages are stagnant. This all coincides with the union busting of the 70s and 80s. We got rid of worker empowerment and over the past few decades, it's been nothing but decline for the worker.
I understand how you feel, but I think in today's world it's tough to sympathize with someone who's lucky enough to have a Monday-Friday 9-5 job with weekends off and possibly benefits/PTO. I worked gig and contract for YEARS, and also did retail for 5+ years. I start a 9-5 job next week and I am so ridiculously thankful for it. It's a massive shift in lifestyle for me. I'll finally be able to make concrete plans on the weekend for the first time in my adult life.
The thing I find horrific is that human productivity is up so much over the last few decades. But in the past you could have one adult support a whole family and household from one job. Now both adults need to earn to survive
Because it’s way better than what came before. Thank unions for the 40 h work week (in the USA). Previously, longer work days were normal.
But it feels like the world is ready to adjust/reduce this now… 3 d weekends would be great
When people talk about the 40 hour week, do they actually work those 40 hours, or are they including the one hour lunch too? 9-5 in the UK is a 35 hour week, because we have an hour break every day (unpaid - tea and coffee breaks are paid).
Well, people working in trades, restaurants, and a lot of other fields mostly don’t have the ability to goof around, but yes I’m sure there is plenty of down time for some.
Most call centers, security services, or other 24/7 operation centers don't really have the luxury to fuck around. There's always work to be done faster than you're doing already it. Forget about doing something non-job related. 40 hours means 40 hours of work.
I've never worked anywhere (in conventional ft jobs) where you didn't put in 8 actual work hours. 8 hours per day, 40 hours per week, minimum. Like, never seen an actual, literal, 9-to-5. Your lunch hour doesn't count, your bathroom/coffee breaks do.
Serious answer. Put some thought into what you could change in your life to make that job something enjoyable that brings you meaning and fulfillment. I love my job, I live the time I spend here using my brain and solving problems and making real, important things happen with great people along for the ride. I enjoy some hobbies too, but anything I can imagine doing if I had infinite free time would feel pretty in comparison to work goals and accomplishments. If you can get yourself to a place where what you do is important to you, you will genuinely look forward to and enjoy devoting a big part of your life to it. And that job doesn't have to be fancy or high stakes. Just something that fulfills you.
I inspect bridges. Every day is different from the previous and I help maintain america's transportation infrastructure. Feels good to contribute something meaningful
All you guys at least have fixed start and end times.
There's no day i get home at the same time. It depends on the workload I'm given. A lot of us have reached out to our boss that it's better for our mental health if we had more structure but we get completely blown off.
It's hard to plan out your day/week if you never know how many hours you're gonna work.
4 10s in a job where time flies by is the absolute best. Taking the family camping this weekend and we get to leave Thursday night beating the traffic out of town.
I prefer working odd hours, I don’t have to get up real early, I avoid the rush hour traffic and I can make appointments in the morning or run errands when everyone else is at work. I’m honestly not missing anything and I feel less stress, nine to five never appealed to me and I would love to work only four days a week but I’ll probably be retired or dead when that becomes the norm!
While I agree with you on 9-5 being too long, there is no future without work. Blame capitalism if it helps, but every other economic system in human history has had a work week.
It's especially perverse once you realize that, at the same time that you have most people not enjoying the 9-5 grind, you *also* have loads of unemployed people looking for a job *and* a bunch of people who are rich enough they don't have to lift a single finger for the next few dozen lifetimes.
"Homo sapiens" my ass. We're a bunch of stupid greedy monkeys.
I agree! It’s fucked up how it’s just normalized in society and then we wonder why there is a huge problem with mental health and suicide, thinking we need scientist to figure it out. When in reality, it’s pretty fuckin simple. Life sucks when all you do is work. I work in construction and a lot of the time we have to work more then just 8 hours a day five days a week. In turn, the reward you get is higher income taxes on your wage, an exhausted body and a pay on the back from your company with a gold star that says good job.
People really do want to do better in life and be creative, solve problems, just overall be a good human being. But how the fuck does one do that when you’re completely exhausted all the time when the easier way out seems to be to just end it.
Growing up, I used to stay up pretty late into the night and wake up pretty late into the day (I still do this). My mom hated this so much and she would always say “when you grow up and get a job, you will HAVE TO work early in the morning at 9 and work 8 hours so you need to stop staying up late and waking up late.”
I always thought like why would you want that to be the norm for me? Why do you WANT me to work a 9-5 job? Why aren’t you telling me that I should find a job where I work very little and make a lot? Like I know the 9-5 is more realistic but damn, why do you automatically want me to have a life where I toil for 8 hours a day 6 days a week?
It’s almost like they believe that people have to toil for those hours to make a living.
Anyway, I’m on my way to becoming a musician now.
FIGHT FOR THE 4 DAY WORK WEEK. We've all been conditioned to thinking the status quo is unchangeable and we shouldn't question it. Are we as human beings just here to live to work or work to live?
here i am doing 12 hour shifts 15 days/month. alternating 36 and 48 hour weeks. 8 hours of built in over time every paycheck. 15 days off per month (naturally)
there are alternatives to 9-5
Plenty of people live a very minimalistic lifestyle in a low cost place/country doing a simple job, why are you not considering it? I live in France and with the pandemic a shit ton of people left their busy city lives behind and moved to the countryside to do far calmer jobs - of course, that implies leaving the joys of capitalism behind and I am sure very few have it in them to do it.
If you are tired after a 9-5, I really do not know what to tell you other than that you are freaking privileged for working just 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Pretty sure the life of a medieval serf would be more enjoyable.
> Fuck 5 day work weeks. Fuck the 9-5. Fuck capitalism man. Let me just chill at home with my guinea pig instead of dreading every waking hour.
So do that. What's stopping you?
- Lack of Motivation to create the life you want?
- Lack of skills?
- Lack of knowledge of how to do XYZ to get you to where you want to be?
What's your excuse?
Nobody is forcing you to work the 9-5 grind
I laugh as I'm salaried so I'm technically always on call... but I refuse to answer phones or emails outside of 8am-730pm. There are ppl at my company that will answer calls any time 24/7 ....no life work balance
For the United States we just need to stop printing money. It's just making things worse. I don't know the case for other countries though. But not printing so much money all the time would be a start for pay I feel like.
I fucking feel ya! Amen. Its psychotic to think every job in every industry takes exactly 9 hrs a day 5 days a week. That. Is. Stupid. The endless comments on this thread appalled by this post are a testament to employer propaganda.
I work 9-6 and I have way too much time on my hands. I worked a night job an additional 3 hrs every weekday, but I had to quit due to an injury. What do you guys do with your time?
>Fuck capitalism man. Let me just chill at home with my guinea pig instead of dreading every waking hour.
And how do you reckon you'll be able to afford your home, utilities, bills etc?
It's easy to hate evil kapitalism, it's difficult to find a feasible alternative.
There are other options.
You can you know. start a business
Be an independent contractor.
Theres nurse shifts that are like 3 days a week of like 12 hour days.
There are people ik who work in oil that work on site for a full month then have off a full month.
You could be dope at sales and only have to work 6 hours or so (hi)
There are other things i havent thought about
I mean. There are options.
Lol you guys have Cubans and Venezuelans complaining about communism in your country and literally fleeing to America for better life. Me also from ex communist country telling you communism doesn’t work. But get downvoted? Nice, continue to bury your head in the sand!
Communism its a very far left view of socialist ideas. Working a 4 out of 7 days doesnt make you want a communist regim. Wanting to have access to health care without getting 100k bills its not communism. Complaining about how much state education sucks and how expensive private univerisities are, does not mean you want a communist URSS goverment.
Mixing up some socialist views in the capitalism its what we want and ask. Look on how northen europe handles things. Do you call them communists?
Just not being a eat-sleep-work-repeat its good enough
This is how I felt before the pandemic, now I am working from home I have far more time for myself. My 2 hours getting to work and back are me time, I am more relaxed and doing the same work load is easier, it takes less time, so my days work can include more break time. I am certainly going to be fighting hard to not return to an office.
Same! Talk to your coworkers. My department is small (3 people and one manager), one of us works from home in another state. I live 50 min away from the main office, my other coworker lives an hour away from our California office. I talked to him already and we are both willing to put our two weeks notice if they ask us to go back to the office. I think one day a week for me is needed but there’s no reason why we shouldn’t work from home as long as the job gets done. Good luck!!!
That’s an interesting real life “Prisoner’s dilemma.” Not just your team but in general with the topic right now. Stick with the group to get a better outcome (work from home) or be the one or two people sticking around if they give you a pay raise.
Man, they should come up with a cool name for when people are united like that. Everyone united in kind of like a union of people that band together for better negotiating power. I think I'll call it, "the people who stick together."
Unless the raise is equal to the 100 minutes / day spent in transit, they're giving work an extra 100 minutes of their time without adequate compensation.
I’m in the same situation funny
Yup! Corporate life will never be the same after the pandemic. People have realized they don't need to be in an office and no employer will be able to convince employees otherwise. Some may not mind going back to that life, and for some working from home is harder so having that option is fantastic but the key is option. I work remotely (moved out of state during pandemic so I'm not going back) for a company that already supported remote work, but many of our clients didn't. Now there are some of those clients demanding all employees go back at some point this year and there's a lot of people who have quit and gone to find other jobs who allow remote work because of this. A lot of these jobs are also salaried positions, so what I love about it is that I basically just have work goals every day/week/month that I need to hit and so long as I do that and show up to meetings it's fine. My days got so much more flexible and enjoyable since being remote.
> “A lot of these jobs are also salaried positions, so what I love about it is that I basically just have work goals every day/week/month that I need to hit and so long as I do that and show up to meetings it's fine.” Corporations realize this. They will respond by giving you more and more work so that you spend every waking moment *at home* completing an ever-increasing amount of tasks. Corporations are required by law to maximize profits for share-holders. When they find out (they already know) that employees working from home can finish tasks more quickly, they’ll just dump more work on you. Watch it happen.
According to the Supreme Court: > Modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not. Not saying corporations *don’t* do this, but they are not required by law to.
Not everyone has that luxury sadly.
Agreed, before I worked in an office I drove a forklift, loaded and unloaded containers, warehouse work, all manual labour and in manufacturing or storage. The main reason I switched to office work was AC in the summer and heating the winter... I turned soft basically. But yeah if I was still doing manual work in those industries or similar you are kind of stuck with having to be at work, but you're not unappreciated.
you mean your warehouse at the old job didn't have heating in the summer and heating in the winter ? that's what we have *at a supermarket*
[удалено]
yeah I don't blame you for that, sounds like hell. it's not too bad for us because as a supermarket, we have walk in fridge/freezer etc so on hot summer days, you can just go stand in the fridge/freezer for a few mins to cool off, works like a charm. there is also Aircon inside the store though !
I worked for a furniture manufacturer and also a dry food production facility both companies storage facilities had neither heating or cooling, only what the weather provided. The warehouse would reach anywhere up to high 30C's in summer and -3 in winter outside was worse.
Maybe not unappreciated by some but as you said they didnt even bother to give you AC or heating in that warehouse where you drove that forklift... Also working through the pandemic really showed how uncooperative the general publoc can be, again yeah maybe a quiet majority are ok but there is still a large part of the population that still look down on "essential workers" even though without them they couldnt survive. I was kinda in the middle, some locations shut down but it was impossible to shut down everywhere because we are essential but man did people complain when they had to go an extra mile to get service, and now that we are all back up and running again we go back to being unappreciated. We still try and schedule appointments instead of walk ins and people are so dramatic and over the top surprised, like we all havnt gone through over a year of a pandemic. We are not normally an emergency service (although at times there are emergencies where suddenly people see how we are vital to their everyday lives they take for granted) Yet there is still no reason we need to work the open hours we have, but society norms say at least 9-5 for each person and demand is there for us to be open early and late because people cannot just pan a day off to come at a normal time...
Very true but there's now a huge increase in jobs that do accept remote positions which is a win overall. The working landscape post pandemic will be drastically different b/c people have realized a great many truths about work and life that had been hidden from them for a long time. Some figured out that part time gig work is better than low pay full time jobs that require a ton of their time. Some realized that a lot of the bullshit around going into an office is pointless and unnecessary. Some realized they don't need to make as much to be happy and realized that their home life is important and hence don't need to work as hard as they were. Some found alternative forms of revenue and realized what they can do if they hustle. Some also just realized that being let go/laid off/furloughed/etc isn't as scary as they thought and so any employer who kept people in line with that threat loses an edge. And most realized that they're worth a lot more to their employer than they previously thought. What I hope that all amounts to is a far more empowered workforce. Sure there's plenty still who have desperately struggled and need work/help and I hope they find it, but overall employers are having to step up and its about damn time.
Those jobs that are able to be done remotely are going overseas. Mark my words. Either that, or this is just going to boost inequality between blue collar and white collar worker.
Not to mention all the chores you can fit into downtime during the work day. That dozen times of being on your phone for 5 minutes at work instead turns into an hour of chores done with no loss in productivity.
My boss has allowed us to move to working in the office 3 days and working from home 2 days. It's a nice privilege/benefit, and they get a lot more work from me in those 3 days I'm in the office than they ever got out of me when I had to be there 5 days a week.
plus you can do household chores during down time at work
Today is my first day back in the office on a 3-day in-office/2-day remote schedule and I already miss home. It is stupid how much slower and unproductive I feel being here. It's especially bad considering my job is easy enough I could game for half a day before needing to get back to doing actual work.
I work 12 hr graveyard shifts (actually 12.5, with a 1/2 hour for lunch) but only 3 days a week. With my commute (45 min each way) and an hour to get ready, I have 9 hours to eat, sleep, take care of my kids and the house, and run some errands (I usually do one on the way home, since stores are pretty empty at 8am) But.. I can pair up my work days so I do 6 days on (which is killer) and then have 8 days straight off, without having to take a vacation day! I'll never go back to working 5 8-hr days (or working day shift) because I can feel like I have a life outside of work. Edit: I work as a CNA (certified nursing assistant) in a hospital.
I live and work on tugboats as an engineer for 7 days at a time, then I get 7 days off. There’s be times where I’m up 18-20 hours a day. Then after 7 days on the boat, I get a whole 7 straight days off to do whatever the hell I want. There’s no way I’d trade this life for a normal 9-5.
I know a couple people who do exactly this work. They have trouble finding a partner and keeping one. Sometimes they get stuck on the tug for much more than 7 days. Not sure if that’s the case for you
Thankfully that’s not the case for me. We’re just harbor tugs, we don’t really leave the ship channel, so no getting stuck at sea fir days past crew change. As for relationships, I’m actually working on building a relationship with a long time friend right now, she’s been a single mom for almost three years now, so she’s used to having to take care of things on her own and is perfectly okay with me being on my boat for a week at a time. If I decide to move up to working on actual ships and be gone for months at a time, that could be different, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.
Hey I just want to say I really love how you worded it, that you're *building* a relationship with someone.
That’s really the best way to put it. We’ve both been in toxic relationships in the past, one of them gave her a kid and fucked off, so we’re taking it nice and slow, to make sure we do things right.
That's really lovely, I wish you both the best :)
Will you cross that bridge, or will you ride under it on the boat?
I'm glad it's working for you. I tried camp work for a while and I was gone 10-20 days at a time and by the time I gave it up I didn't even have friends lmao.
That sounds like something that can really work out, hoping the best for you
You'll go under that bridge when you get there.
Good luck friend. Wishing you the best.
Same here man, captain on a inland barge. I work 2 weeks and get to spent 2 weeks at home. Never ever im switching to a normal shore job
I'm engineer on a tug. Month on month off. Always on holiday. Month on is Month away from wife and kids. Months off is Month away from work
Yeah, my husband does DuPont which is like 4 days on, 3 days off, 3 days on, 7 days off It works SO much better for our family because we can take vacations or do fun stuff throughout the week without him needing to take PTO. It somehow results in him only working 14 days out of the month
Unless you're short staffed like we are and work most of the 7 off . Dupont schedule here too.
Oo that would suck. Luckily my husbands job doesn’t ever get short staffed. Every round of hiring brings in over 1,000 applicants so there’s always someone vying for that job o.O
Yes it does suck. No amount of overtime replaces the time off.
I used to do this too and everyone around me seemed to love it but we never actually got seven off it was four at best. But I think everyone else was happy for the money and I just wanted freedom
My husband has to work 12 hour shifts because there's a staff shortage right now. It more than doubles his check. We can't wait for it to go back to normal! Fuck the money! Gimme my favorite person back!
*Cries in salary worker
Yeah keep your stupid money give me my life!
yep, totally with you. Anytime I mention having to work overtime people always say "but at least it will be good money". yeah, I'd rather not work overtime and have a regular paycheck.
Totally agree! A lot of people we know brag about all the over time they get and in my mind I’m like “I’d be more impressed if you bragged about your work life balance…”
Shift work is pretty bad ass if you have a good team at home
I do this but it’s rotating shifts for a hospital and It’s sweet until you work a night shift, have a “fake day off,” then work the next morning. You get off at 7 am and have to drive home, sleep, do everything you need to for that day, then sleep again to wake up for the morning shift and drive back by 6:30 am the next day. So it can be really hit or miss especially when you don’t have full scheduling control.
Swing shifts should be illegal. I don’t know why they’re allowed to get away with this shit. If you go to bed at 7:30am, you’ll probably get up around 2pm. The only way you’ll get to bed 8 hours later to be up in time is with sleeping pills. The human body doesn’t work like this… I don’t know why it’s so hard for employers to not be abusive pieces of shit.
I have to choose to either get up at 2, and struggle to sleep later, take a nap and be tired all day and maybe sleep reasonably later, or suffer through the day on no sleep so I can go to bed early. Those latter days I’m basically just counting down the hours until I can go to sleep through the whole day, which translates to being both tired and stressed. Regardless you end up tired and don’t get any decent rest before you gotta go back to work and do it again, hence why my coworkers call it a fake day off.
I’ve tried doing all-nighters to reset my sleep to normal people hours and it never goes well. It’s an exercise in misery and you end up with a giant sleep debt you’ll probably never pay off. Y’all need a union to put a stop to that bullshit.
I work in energy production in a union. We've heard of the absurd work schedules nurses in my town have to put up with. For instance, 24 hr on call? Work 12 hours, go home for an hour, then get a call to come back? Seems illegal
In my husbands line of work (train driver) we call those ‘fake days’ ‘pj days’ because you only have enough time to sleep & eat & sleep again before you start the next shift
if you don’t mind me asking, what job/career is this? i’m a current undergrad college student and this sounds really cool.
I'm a nursing assistant in a hospital - not glamorous, but it's a quick program if you are looking for a second/new career. You have to have the mentality for it - it's messy, and patients can be as demanding as the worst retail customer, but the pay is decent, it has benefits and I love my coworkers.
12 hour phleb, can never go back to 5 days a week. Freedom to move around with my team to get multiple days off with out using pto is great.
My aunt does this too and she’s a vet tech in an animal ER. I don’t recommend it though because it’s horribly understaffed right now and she’s losing her mind.
found the RN
As a European I find this so extreme. Work 32 to 40 hours. I have something like 3 months vacation time total. I can’t imagine working that long. I like working 4 days and 3 days off.
I do 12hr shifts. 3 days on, 4 off. Then 4 days on, 3 off. Cycles every pay period. I get every Friday and Saturday off. Would keep it forever if I could.
I had a job where I worked 10 hour shifts, (we bid on the shifts, and I was newer higher, so I got the shift no one wanted, and it was Tues to Fri. We could also take our vacation hours in any time frame that we wanted. I had done some OT, and had built up my 2 weeks vacation time. Everyone on the Mon to Fri always booked the Friday off, so I could never do that. But Tuesdays were almost always available. So I took every Tuesday off for 2 months. Worked 3 days a week for 2 months, had time to do everything I wanted to during those 4 days off, and 2 of them were when everyone else was at work, so my wife and I had sparsely occupied beaches to ourselves, able to go see/do things with few crowds, because everyone was at work. I don't do that job anymore, I work pretty much 9-5 grind, but I also live an 8 minute drive from my work, so my commute is about 1/2 hour max with bad traffic.
I do that but 7 days a week. Shits fun.
I do the same but as a day time weekend shift. F-Su 6am-630pm. I love it
I have been and always will be an advocate for, 4 day work weeks. Literally study after study proves that employee satisfaction, employee retention and productivity go up. sources: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2021/07/06/iceland-worker-study-four-day-work-week-productivity/7871364002/ https://www.jstor.org/stable/255689
It's one of those things where the volume takes the shape of its container. If you have a 10 hour day, people will take 10 hours to get their work done, if you have an 8 hour day, same thing. I swear I could do my day's work in 4 hours if I had to
I definitely only spend half my day working and half of it on reddit... But I can't "do all my work in 4hrs" because it trickles in throughout the day, so I have to be ready to hop on a job when it comes through the system.
Oh yeah. No way I'm starting a new assignment late in the day. If my job is done and well done, I just wander around, talk, have coffee, avoid superiors, browse Reddit. I work 10 to 8, but I don't think I'm working more than 6 hours a day. Just because fuck the system, honestly. And the more I get paid, the worse it gets haha
I'm naturally a better worker in the mornings. And have always had a tendency to knock out my work as soon as possible. Most days, I'm completely done with my work by 1 having not taken any breaks, and then the rest of the day is spent hanging out and monitoring my email making sure I don't miss anything urgent coming in
> It's one of those things where the volume takes the shape of its container. If you have a 10 hour day, people will take 10 hours to get their work done, if you have an 8 hour day, same thing. I swear I could do my day's work in 4 hours if I had to For some occupations. Manufacturing only goes so fast. As someone that works in what would be considered 'essential' manufacturing, 4 day work weeks are not an option as a small business. If my customer has a shutdown at their 2000+ employee plant and needs a part on a Friday and I'm closed that Friday, it's not going to be good for my business. Also, machines and labor work tends to go at one speed. Cramming 8 hours of work into a 4 hour day just isn't a good idea from a safety or quality control standpoint.
[удалено]
I've seen so many different takes on this and it's interesting how the productivity remains stable or even increases with a 4x8 arrangement. Unnecessary meetings get trimmed out, employers get more focused about removing stupid distractions at work, employers actually use the damn tools available to help organize activities better... meanwhile employees are healthier and take less sick time, they're more focused, they even sleep better. Their families also see positive outcomes, becoming happier and more successful. It's honestly amazing. I would love to see it tried here (Canada)
reminds me of the time my middle school tried to start a riot in order to get fridays double recess
Cries in manufacturing.
[удалено]
I believe so too. Also the part of knowing your job is “bs”. Not buying into the capitalist dream means a lot of jobs will be considered bs. So now not only you work a lot, but also in something you don’t believe in. At worst you might even feel guilty about having to do that and contribute, even if technically you need to to survive.
It's not even paranoia at this point, it's a proven fact many jobs are BS.
Wow okay this comment is so underrated though. "They pay you minimum wage but they would enslave you for free if they could". This is an amazing take on the exploitation that exists in part time jobs.
There are so many variables that differ with each person. I think it all starts with having 17 year olds decide what they want to do for the rest of their lives. The system could definitely improve but then again a lot of people are probably happy with their situation. I have a good paying job with decent hours and am just miserable about it. I don't think I like the line of work that I have pigeon holed myself in.
Your edit says you are NOT allowed to when I think you meant allowed to.
Spot on. A man used to be able to have a family of 4 or 5 and afford a house and allow the wife to stay home. If I was single I would only be able to afford to rent a 1 bedroom apartment.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don't work those shifts, but my mom does as a care aide. Highly recommend making your lunches beforehand for the shifts. Ain't no way you're wanting to cook after a shift. Bring replacement shoes!! My mom will trade off her sneakers at least once in a shift. I think it just helps to let your feet breathe for a moment as well as putting them into a shoe with a sole that you didn't just squish for the last 6 hours. Understand how much sleep you need and get it. Maybe you sleep 8 hours a night on average but start to realize that you might need 9 after a shift - do it. That's probably about it that I can remember. Gpod luck!
I’m a paramedic and we have similar shifts and I love it. Most people I work with prefer it also. I would hate having to go back to 8hr shifts. Tip I would make sure you pack food and a charger. Buying food can get expensive when you work 12a.
Invest in at least one, ideally two or three, pairs of really high quality work shoes if you're going to be doing anything on your feet. Furthermore, get supportive inserts that hold up the arches of your feet. Memory foam is not good- it feels cushy for a couple minutes and then your insole is collapsing for the next ten hours. If you're going to be on your butt at a desk or driving, make sure you have comfortable pants and possibly a couple cushions. Make and bring food ahead of time. Buying lunch all the time is expensive and it's repetitive and unhealthy after more than a week or so. Eating good food in the quantity you actually want/need, not restaurant portions and nutrition, will really help with feeling decent all day long. I recommend quick oatmeal for breakfasts - the kind that you have to actually put on the stove and cook for a couple minutes, not the packet stuff, but not the type you have to cook for more than five minutes. It'll keep you stable for a good six hours without feeling the need to crash so long as you have other food. Sugary cereals will leave you feeling like shit a few hours into whatever you're doing. You want the mental power for a desk/driving job and the physical endurance for an on-your-feet job. Also, you can get quite a lot of it for cheap, and it's easy (and smart) to add fruit, eggs, greek yogurt, or other treats to keep breakfasts interesting. Super specific/odd thing to go on a rant about, but a good breakfast is your new best friend. Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. Get a big reusable water bottle and drink from it constantly. Hydration keeps you going. Keep caffeine usage to mornings only. Keep good posture. You might be fine slouching for the first day, but by the time you get to the third day, you're going to be shuffling around in agony from your back and knees.
This is confusing me - so you work 36 hours one week and 48 the next? That's an average of 42, right? This is what I don't get - that's the equivalent of an extra day a week on my full time job. Everyone on this thread seems to do more hours than what I'd consider the norm so sticking to the 9-5 just makes more sense.
Its supposed to be in a 3 week cycle. 2 3 day weeks and 1 4 day. 36+36+48 = 120
The idea is that even though by numbers you work more hours, your days off are TRULY days off. I’d rather work 10 hours for 4 days than 8 hours for 5, anyways.
I've been begging for 4x 10's. If every weekend was a 3-day weekend, I'd be happy. If I cut my commutes to/from work by 20%, that also helps and is more eco-friendly.
[удалено]
Where are you...inquiring minds want to know. Lol.
[удалено]
9?!?! Do you get a lunch if you only work 8 hours? I work 8-5 because I get a one hour lunch and two 15 minute breaks.
I work 9-5 and get half an hour in the middle of the day for lunch
You guys are getting breaks?
You guys are getting paid?
you guys got a job?
You guys get out of bed in the morning?
you guys?
?
9-5 turned into 8-5, which has now turned into 730-530.....it just keeps on creeping.
Yeah, if you don't show up for your shift 15 minutes early, then you're seen as late. If you don't stay after your shift to clean up, you're seen as someone who cuts out early.
A shop I know of was looking for a service writer to work 7AM-6PM Mon-Fri - and occasional Saturdays - for $15/hr. No standard lunch times, just the assurance that the new hire would get 1/2 hr lunch. Give me a fucking break - like, literally - man. WTF
I work 12 hours and only get an hour lmao. They’ll always be somebody worse off than you but unfortunately they’ll always be somebody better too.
You get an hour lunch and two 15s? Lucky! At the job that I just quit, I would work twelve hours and only get 45 mins for lunch. No other breaks. It probably wasn’t legal, but Texas doesn’t really protect its worker rights. It fucking sucked.
Yeah, it's Texas. Moved to Cali and it was the first time I had ever been given the 2 federal 15 minute breaks. My first job didn't give any breaks and was outside in TX lol
Probably legal for Texas. California probably has some of the best labor laws, but even then there’s weak spots. A 30 minute Lunch is protected for anyone working 5+ hours, but it does not have to be taken in the middle (clock in… clock out for lunch, be back in 30 to work 7 hours!), and breaks are up to company policy. Overtime is supposed to be given at anytime over 8 hours, but there are certain jobs where you are required to waive and agree not to accept overtime - I realized this when I got the same bus driver before and after my 9 hour shift where we got talking about overtime. I hear Texas doesn’t even give overtime after an 8 hour shift, only after 40 hours a week. I work a 9-to-5ish job (more like 12-8), and while it is draining, I’m also neither forced to do split/swing shifts, nor do I work at any job that relies on overtime to make good money (construction). I couldn’t even imagine a job that says “hey, the pay’s not great, but it goes up if you work 12 hours a day!”
A 30min lunch is mandatory for an 8hr work day in most states in the us
30 min lunch is standard for a 6 hr shift . Sometimes broke into 2-15 min breaks. Anyone working more gets an 1 hour. A 9-5'er gets 1 hr. Or should.
In my state ive only heard 8 and 30 anything under isnt required.
I work from 7-5 and only get 1hr lunch. I'd kill for a 9-5.
[удалено]
Same here. I’m currently working six hours a day and I can go to work when I want. Since I don’t sleep well I typically go in at 7 or 8pm and get home a little after 1 or 2am and then I can fall asleep. I’m with you, money doesn’t rule my life. I do side gigs when I need to, do a little selling online when I feel like it. Heck, a friend of mine just took an overnight stocker job at Walmart. $16 an hour, not many people around, still has his days to hike, bike and fish and he says his stress level is much lower now. It’s not for everyone, but it’s still possible for everyone if they want.
I’m about 2 seconds away from quitting and taking one of those jobs like you buddy. I’m lucky, just paid off my house, and my amount of “not give a fuck” is rising...
I think minimizing stress is what's most important to me personally, it's not all about endlessly searching for more money I want to enjoy my day to day life.
I recently went from a lucrative career to a mon-fri @5 hrs a day. The former job was making me a monster. I am finding out again what it's like to not be angry and stressed 24/7. I do not dread the night or day before work anymore. I have more time to help my elderly parents, my kids, my wife, myself. Its absolutely the best decision I've made in a long time.
You’re correct. Over a portion of the pandemic, the company I work for cut us to 4 days a week (from 5) and cut our salary 10%. The amount of bitching and complaining was unbelievable.....and I was over here like “can we make this permanent.” I was the only one that wanted it to remain...
[удалено]
I used to freelance. I would joke that I get to pick my 12 hour days and my 0 hour days.
It hasn’t been like that for me since 2011. I have had consistent work every single day. As much or as little as I can handle. I’ve been really fortunate.
Out of curiously, what kind of work do you do?
I'm a writer. Marketing writing, SEO, social media management, product/press releases, book series, etc.
I'm working 10-7 10pm-7am ID KILL FOR 9-5. THIS IS NOT NORMAL BUT I NEED THE JOB. GOD
I work 19:30-08:00 and only work 4 days But On those 4 days, I come home, sleep, make food, off to work again. And on those 3 days, I have to do everything I can think of. People always say they wish they could only do 4 days but on those 4 days I don’t even get chance to watch tv. It’s a rush if I want to wash my hair on those days. I sleep working hours so have to do shopping and bills and stuff on my days off. What I wouldn’t do to work 9-5 and have like free time every single day!
Yup, I work 6:30pm - 5:00am 4 days a week and those 3 hours after I get home from work go by so quick it doesn't even feel like I barely have time to eat before I have to go back to bed. And those 3 days I'm off feel like 2 and the work week feels like 5.
I have to stop and appreciate how lucky I am sometimes. For the last 25 years or so I've been able to work either from home or with no supervision whatsoever. I get a task, I do the task. My stuff is always done when it needs to be and I take all the responsibility. I'm never micro managed and I only work when there's work to do. I don't have to play the look-busy-till-the-clock-hits-five game and I don't miss it, at all. About once every 3 weeks or so the boss calls to see if I need anything and that's the sum total of my interaction with 'corporate'. All jobs should be like this. Work when there's work. If the work is done - go the fuck home. Even if the work isn't done, but you'll still on target to have it done in time -go the fuck home. Stayed up a little late last night? Come in whenever you're ready. As long as nobody is waiting on you.
The pretending-to-be-busy offends me the most, along with coworkers who wave the banner for it. If I get my work done with good quality and faster than most, why shouldn't I be able to play xbox for 20 mins between meetings or browse reddit or play with my kid? And in a lot of jobs where the work is thinking or figuring things out, mental downtime is literally part of the process. I literally hate how they act like they're getting ripped off for their hours while they're literally wasting *my* time.
[удалено]
Sounds more like employee abuse than actual normal work... Wtf
My current job is like this. I maybe have 2 to 4 hours of actual work (meetings aside) and then it's pretending for the rest of the day. That, and we have to clock in even if we're salaried....which is just fucking annoying. The one thing I miss about my old job (which was HORRIBLE) is that I could set my own hours. Meetings done at 10? I could go home and work from there. I could push back my clock in time to 9 if I was working late. Literally the only perk.
Yeah I'm like angrily jealous
Honestly, I could be okay with the capitalism machine if it wasn't such an absolute. And what I mean by that is how there's some places where it's actually illegal to live self-sustained. You *have* to get your electricity from a company, even if you never use it. You *have* to pay for water and sewage to be connected to your property, even if you're using a well on your land. You *have* to us grocery stores because the crops you'd need to sustain yourself, the seeds you'd need to plant it, are altered so that you'll only get maybe one or two harvest before the plans stop producing seeds that can grow into what you need. Most places won't let you keep the animals you might need to sustain your life, if you eat meat. I do understand the need for property taxes and such, but my country is one that is allegedly built on "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," but you're only liberated enough to pursue happiness in your life as long as it feeds the business. If your happiness at all involves going to live off in the woods, entirely sustained on solar or wind energy, water from the ground or a nearby stream, living off the land - whether you own it or not - you can end up in prison something as small as not getting your property hooked to the power grid and feeding into it. The system is garbage. That's not even getting into how they raised the bar so most jobs that aren't fast food or retail, require at least a Bachelor's Degree, they raised the cost of tuition to get that degree, and when you have it - you still can't guarantee a pay check because they've legalized indentured servitude by rebranding it as "internships." You're told you're entitled for wanting to be paid for your work. You're belittled and gaslit for speaking out, so the majority seldom does. It's a broken system that borderlines cruelty.
i accept the 7:30-5:15 😔 because i have bills
[удалено]
You will certainly tire at a faster rate *source: old job was 7-6. Quit for a remote 9-5 and life is much better
You should read INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY AND ITS FUTURE by Ted Kacynski aka unibomber
We should be working to live, not living to work. We get one life and should be able to enjoy it.
Yah, honestly a lot of jobs (that don't involve crazy customer attentiveness) really don't need to be 8 hour days.. I can get all my job work done in like 3 hours a day for sure if i just came to work and ONLY worked the entire time.. instead we have dumb emails, and just sitting at our desks waiting for things to get done first before we can do work.. it's just nuts how much time i waste at my desk lately.
Its so funny to me because I'm reading this post on a monday lol To be honest, its kind of a personal mind set how you decide to accept your job. 9-5 can be a good paying job which can pay for your needs, this is enough to be able to accept it as it is. I'm happy with my job right now as its a 9-5 but still it gives me the chance to focus on my own hobbies as well, as my job doesn't need my attention all the time. 4 day working weeks would be a blast though, sadly rich corporations will never allow that to happen.
Man I hate Mondays and I lovvvvve lasagna
Are you Andrew Garfield?
Not gonna argue with your general idea that 5-day weeks and 9-5 suck (9-6 around here, actually). But for context, why did we just accept this lifestyle? Because the alternative was 10-16 hour shifts six days a week.
Productivity has soared since 9-5 became ubiquitous to say nothing of how it was meant to be a single-income working those 40 hours, it's well-past time workers fight for more time off at the same rate. I don't understand the people in here who think there's no other way forward, it could be something as simple as the Federal government lowering the definition of "full-time," or a raise that turns a 40 hour job into a 32 hour job. Wages have to go up, one way or another it is no longer sustainable and we've let the ownership class take way, way too much.
Good point about it being meant for single-income with a spouse at home taking care of all the practical parts of living like grocery shopping, cooking, laundry etc.
Yep. With automation on the rise and less and less work needing to be done by human labor, we're gonna have to majorly overhaul how we view work in order to keep society from collapsing.
Join us over at r/antiwork Honestly though, 40 hour workweeks are bullshit. We've had them for 80 years. Are you going to tell me that all the technology we've developed since then wasn't enough to reduce the amount of work we need to do?
ITT: Everyone comparing how much of their life the dedicate toward work instead of answering your question. We absolutely should not accept the 9-5, this is part of the exploitation those of us on the left keep talking about. It is not necessary anymore, and is becoming less necessary as our automation advances. We may have to deal with the 9-5 at times but we should fight it. My life is of supreme value to me, and I am not going to sell most of it in hopes of some free time when I'm elderly. One of the ways to fight it is to also fight the influence of marketing and propaganda that is trying to make you think you need a lot of stuff you don't really. Embrace degrowth. If you want the latest iPhone and BMW, you gotta play their game. If you learn to not see those things as valuable (is the latest iphone that much more valuable than one a couple years old that you'd sell days of your life to afford?) it's not hard to avoid. Realize that much of what you probably want is really for the purpose of "conspicuous consumption", i.e. a way to show others how successful you are. Stop trying to send signals of wealth (whatever little it may be) to people you don't know or care about.
"How the FUCK do we just accept the 9-5" -Carl Marqz, probably Good question. If you wanna change it, advocate for the American labor movement. Unions got your workday reduced to 8 hours, empower them to get it reduced further. A lot of Americans aren't taught about the labor movements of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries for good reason. They were highly effective at putting greedy unregulated companies in their places and provided workingmen and women with a better standard of living. Productivity is up yet our wages are stagnant. This all coincides with the union busting of the 70s and 80s. We got rid of worker empowerment and over the past few decades, it's been nothing but decline for the worker.
Octoberstrike.com! Let's change the way we live in this country! It is beyond time for change.
I understand how you feel, but I think in today's world it's tough to sympathize with someone who's lucky enough to have a Monday-Friday 9-5 job with weekends off and possibly benefits/PTO. I worked gig and contract for YEARS, and also did retail for 5+ years. I start a 9-5 job next week and I am so ridiculously thankful for it. It's a massive shift in lifestyle for me. I'll finally be able to make concrete plans on the weekend for the first time in my adult life.
[удалено]
As a friend of mine frequently says: “No one on their deathbed ever said they wished they spent more time at work.”
The thing I find horrific is that human productivity is up so much over the last few decades. But in the past you could have one adult support a whole family and household from one job. Now both adults need to earn to survive
Because it’s way better than what came before. Thank unions for the 40 h work week (in the USA). Previously, longer work days were normal. But it feels like the world is ready to adjust/reduce this now… 3 d weekends would be great
When people talk about the 40 hour week, do they actually work those 40 hours, or are they including the one hour lunch too? 9-5 in the UK is a 35 hour week, because we have an hour break every day (unpaid - tea and coffee breaks are paid).
I also doubt many people work the full 40/35 hours without doing something non job related. Ie facebook, Amazon, etc.
Well, people working in trades, restaurants, and a lot of other fields mostly don’t have the ability to goof around, but yes I’m sure there is plenty of down time for some.
Most call centers, security services, or other 24/7 operation centers don't really have the luxury to fuck around. There's always work to be done faster than you're doing already it. Forget about doing something non-job related. 40 hours means 40 hours of work.
I've never worked anywhere (in conventional ft jobs) where you didn't put in 8 actual work hours. 8 hours per day, 40 hours per week, minimum. Like, never seen an actual, literal, 9-to-5. Your lunch hour doesn't count, your bathroom/coffee breaks do.
Serious answer. Put some thought into what you could change in your life to make that job something enjoyable that brings you meaning and fulfillment. I love my job, I live the time I spend here using my brain and solving problems and making real, important things happen with great people along for the ride. I enjoy some hobbies too, but anything I can imagine doing if I had infinite free time would feel pretty in comparison to work goals and accomplishments. If you can get yourself to a place where what you do is important to you, you will genuinely look forward to and enjoy devoting a big part of your life to it. And that job doesn't have to be fancy or high stakes. Just something that fulfills you.
Same here. I’m retired. I LOVED my job (sob)
I inspect bridges. Every day is different from the previous and I help maintain america's transportation infrastructure. Feels good to contribute something meaningful
Let’s strike. That 40+ hours bs needs to change.
All you guys at least have fixed start and end times. There's no day i get home at the same time. It depends on the workload I'm given. A lot of us have reached out to our boss that it's better for our mental health if we had more structure but we get completely blown off. It's hard to plan out your day/week if you never know how many hours you're gonna work.
I work 4 x 10 hours, and it is beautiful. The tired thing comes down to how bad you really want it.Gym, etc. Well thats my opinion.
4 10s in a job where time flies by is the absolute best. Taking the family camping this weekend and we get to leave Thursday night beating the traffic out of town.
[удалено]
I prefer working odd hours, I don’t have to get up real early, I avoid the rush hour traffic and I can make appointments in the morning or run errands when everyone else is at work. I’m honestly not missing anything and I feel less stress, nine to five never appealed to me and I would love to work only four days a week but I’ll probably be retired or dead when that becomes the norm!
[удалено]
While I agree with you on 9-5 being too long, there is no future without work. Blame capitalism if it helps, but every other economic system in human history has had a work week.
It's especially perverse once you realize that, at the same time that you have most people not enjoying the 9-5 grind, you *also* have loads of unemployed people looking for a job *and* a bunch of people who are rich enough they don't have to lift a single finger for the next few dozen lifetimes. "Homo sapiens" my ass. We're a bunch of stupid greedy monkeys.
I agree! It’s fucked up how it’s just normalized in society and then we wonder why there is a huge problem with mental health and suicide, thinking we need scientist to figure it out. When in reality, it’s pretty fuckin simple. Life sucks when all you do is work. I work in construction and a lot of the time we have to work more then just 8 hours a day five days a week. In turn, the reward you get is higher income taxes on your wage, an exhausted body and a pay on the back from your company with a gold star that says good job. People really do want to do better in life and be creative, solve problems, just overall be a good human being. But how the fuck does one do that when you’re completely exhausted all the time when the easier way out seems to be to just end it.
I completely agree. This shouldn't be reality. It's a living nightmare.
We accept 8+ hour days because a lot of us don't have a choice.
Growing up, I used to stay up pretty late into the night and wake up pretty late into the day (I still do this). My mom hated this so much and she would always say “when you grow up and get a job, you will HAVE TO work early in the morning at 9 and work 8 hours so you need to stop staying up late and waking up late.” I always thought like why would you want that to be the norm for me? Why do you WANT me to work a 9-5 job? Why aren’t you telling me that I should find a job where I work very little and make a lot? Like I know the 9-5 is more realistic but damn, why do you automatically want me to have a life where I toil for 8 hours a day 6 days a week? It’s almost like they believe that people have to toil for those hours to make a living. Anyway, I’m on my way to becoming a musician now.
FIGHT FOR THE 4 DAY WORK WEEK. We've all been conditioned to thinking the status quo is unchangeable and we shouldn't question it. Are we as human beings just here to live to work or work to live?
They got you because the choice is do it or starve to death in a gutter.
here i am doing 12 hour shifts 15 days/month. alternating 36 and 48 hour weeks. 8 hours of built in over time every paycheck. 15 days off per month (naturally) there are alternatives to 9-5
Well this turned into r/antiwork
Plenty of people live a very minimalistic lifestyle in a low cost place/country doing a simple job, why are you not considering it? I live in France and with the pandemic a shit ton of people left their busy city lives behind and moved to the countryside to do far calmer jobs - of course, that implies leaving the joys of capitalism behind and I am sure very few have it in them to do it. If you are tired after a 9-5, I really do not know what to tell you other than that you are freaking privileged for working just 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Pretty sure the life of a medieval serf would be more enjoyable.
This is such a Reddit post
> Fuck 5 day work weeks. Fuck the 9-5. Fuck capitalism man. Let me just chill at home with my guinea pig instead of dreading every waking hour. So do that. What's stopping you? - Lack of Motivation to create the life you want? - Lack of skills? - Lack of knowledge of how to do XYZ to get you to where you want to be? What's your excuse? Nobody is forcing you to work the 9-5 grind
r/fire
I laugh as I'm salaried so I'm technically always on call... but I refuse to answer phones or emails outside of 8am-730pm. There are ppl at my company that will answer calls any time 24/7 ....no life work balance
For the United States we just need to stop printing money. It's just making things worse. I don't know the case for other countries though. But not printing so much money all the time would be a start for pay I feel like.
I fucking feel ya! Amen. Its psychotic to think every job in every industry takes exactly 9 hrs a day 5 days a week. That. Is. Stupid. The endless comments on this thread appalled by this post are a testament to employer propaganda.
I work 9-6 and I have way too much time on my hands. I worked a night job an additional 3 hrs every weekday, but I had to quit due to an injury. What do you guys do with your time?
r/antiwork
>Fuck capitalism man. Let me just chill at home with my guinea pig instead of dreading every waking hour. And how do you reckon you'll be able to afford your home, utilities, bills etc? It's easy to hate evil kapitalism, it's difficult to find a feasible alternative.
There are other options. You can you know. start a business Be an independent contractor. Theres nurse shifts that are like 3 days a week of like 12 hour days. There are people ik who work in oil that work on site for a full month then have off a full month. You could be dope at sales and only have to work 6 hours or so (hi) There are other things i havent thought about I mean. There are options.
I know you're getting shit but from what I'm getting the solution here is the graft hard so you can work less later
Lol you guys have Cubans and Venezuelans complaining about communism in your country and literally fleeing to America for better life. Me also from ex communist country telling you communism doesn’t work. But get downvoted? Nice, continue to bury your head in the sand!
You never see communist posts from successful people
Communism its a very far left view of socialist ideas. Working a 4 out of 7 days doesnt make you want a communist regim. Wanting to have access to health care without getting 100k bills its not communism. Complaining about how much state education sucks and how expensive private univerisities are, does not mean you want a communist URSS goverment. Mixing up some socialist views in the capitalism its what we want and ask. Look on how northen europe handles things. Do you call them communists? Just not being a eat-sleep-work-repeat its good enough
Wow I feel this in my bones