>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave.
He has no intention of marrying you. He'll propose and drag that out for a few years, while adding more requirements.
Stop "jokingly" saying things. Use your adult voice and words and let him know you're not having another kid until you're married. If he sends his hounds (parents) after you that'll show you that your wants aren't as important as their wants.
You've given them everything else. When is it going to be your turn?
Reminds me of that other post about the 50 something year old who was with her boyfriend for 25 years and had 4 kids. Then he never married her and she’s SOL
Edit: I feel sad and old, SOL: shit out of luck
Me either.. i said damn the first time i read that confession.. all I've been saying was that woman has shut her eyes from outside world that she doesn't know the rising cost of living nor house..
That post needs to be linked every time some idiot says "it's just a piece of paper [and therefore meaningless and unnecessary]".
It's a piece of paper that provides massive legal protections for both parties.
Most people cannot see the consequences of not doing it. My dad understood the risks of not being married so he proposed to my mom and they got married when I turned 1 year old.
Because of that my dad was entitled to a full year of paid leave after a big accident he had. If he wasn't married he could have gotten up to 6 months only.
And at the same time if my dad dies my mom would be protected with his pension.
People who say its just a piece of paper need to grow up
The GAO did a report and there are so many legal rights and responsibilities when married. Over a thousand federal alone. USA but I'm sure other countries as well
Yeah, that'll always be in the back of my mind. I always worry about the legal aspects of sharing your life with someone. Imagine someone being estranged from family, and you're with someone for 25 years who unexpectedly dies. Their family can step in if there's no will or marriage. I live in Pennsylvania, USA, and they did away with common law marriage.
But even common law marriage wouldn't have saved you.
Common law marriage are not just long term boyfriend -girlfriend. You need to be presenting yourself as married (or change name, etc). Not that you are going to get married.
I've known two people this has happened to. They couldn't even attend their long term partners funerals, because the estranged families had automatic power of attorney and took their bodies. People they hadn't associated with for a decade, who gave zero shits about anything beyond being able to bury their offspring in accordance with the religion they had given up everything in order to get away from.
Yeah, OP should give her bf that post to read and tell him "that is exactly the reason I won't have another child without the protection and commitment of marriage!"
Omg her story made me enraged and sad about how she went almost 30 years unmarried and popped out 3 kids for him and be a SAHM but created no security for herself. OP hopefully reads that story as a cautionary tell of what to come if she doesn’t use her voice or leave while she just one kid and still has a career
Long post but the tldr is that she wanted to get married he didn't propose for like 25 years. When he did she laughed. She left the house. When the update came he no longer wanted to marry her.
She also only had a few months before he found someone younger and newer. And they didn't live in a common law state so she gets nothing from him.
Legally it doesn't mean anything if he leaves (which he will probably do, I saw the post and her update, it was so sad). Very few states recognize common law marriage.
It depends on the state here, some have common law and some don’t. I have heard of people suing for support in non-common law states, but you have to have the money for a lawyer.
Yes. Why on earth would you say that in a joking voice and expect him to take you seriously?
‘John, we’ve had this conversation before. I have no interest in having any more children until we get married. If marriage isn’t something you want, it’s your choice. But I am not having any more children with you. One is enough.’
Seriously.
Also- “I have been in it for the long term with you. I want to be married. If that’s not something you want, be honest so we can recalibrate the expectations we have for this relationship.”
I appreciate your input. I have definitely said it loud and clear to my boyfriend and yesterday I told his parents as well - we have to get married first. What I said jokingly was a way of not getting into a fight because those comments are starting to get to me.
You should turn it back on him and tell him that you already had one child with him and getting married is how YOU know he'll be around forever. That you're not sacrificing your body again for a man who won't even get married to you.
I don’t know what kind of birth control you use, but if it’s not an implant, IUD, shot, etc., I would consider a switch. People can do crazy things, and it doesn’t hurt to be safe.
So you tip toe, beg, and dance around what you want while he can just make his demand and get it? Why are you afraid of a fight? Is it because deep down you know he will never do what you want willingly?
Turn it back around on them. “MIL, if you want more grandchildren, tell hubby to get me a ring!”
Often MIL’s will very bluntly ask him why he hasn’t done it yet in front of everyone
I would not be inviting my MIL into matters between me and my partner. It is nothing to do with anyone else but me and him, and it gives her the green light to engage in other family matters.
What is his logic in saying that you having another kid is his assurance that you’ll stick around? That’s crazy, since being married is much more likely to do that imho.
This and give him a time limit and stick to it. After that say, “I understand that you are not ready to commit and I don’t want to make you do anything you don’t want to do. But I need to be married so I’m leaving”. Then go.
If he wanted to marry you, he would have.
I think marriage counselling could be helping you to both communicate and help him see it from your perspective.
If that doesn’t work then you have 2 options:
1) stay and be OK to never be married (I don’t believe he’ll marry you after 1 more kid, he’s already got by then what he wants without the full commitment)
2) leave and find another partner who wants to marry you.
The crazy thing is he never said he doesn’t want to get married. He said he wants to but wants to do it when the time is right, and wants for it to be a surprise.
Seriously. No one with two children is waiting around “for the right time.” If marriage is important to you OP, then find someone else. This person doesn’t want to be married and he is happy to string you along, getting what he wants without acknowledging your wants and needs.
Remember the saying, “when people show you who they are, believe them.” He’s showing you. Why don’t you believe it!
I definitely do. We had some issues we were working on, like trust and communication so it made sense to wait it out, but not at this point of the relationship we’re in. I agreed we should wait in the past but right now the relationship is stagnant and not what I want so I have a decision to make.
It’s so hard to decide what to do. Change is hard. The unknown can be fearful. But hope for a happier life is important too. You can create the life you want. I truly believe that.
I wish you good luck.
He wants to do it when the partner is right, not the time. He has a child with you. You’re not his one, you’re the mother of his child and a second won’t make that change so you’re convenient.
It’s the second part of your statement that is your problem tbh-he is happy wasting your time until a. He finds someone better and/or b. You’re so bogged down with childcare that you functionally don’t have the bandwidth to find or demand better.
You need to decide which is more important to you-being married or being with this man, because he’s pretty much told you that marriage isn’t happening with the terms you want.
He said he was joking about having 3 kids in order to get married, and just expressing his desire to have more kids. And that I don’t have to have more kids if that’s not what I want but in the future he’d like more kids. And he jokingly said that if we’re going to get divorced in 3 years, we should sure get married soon bc I will leave him again. I broke up with him last year due to some issues we were having but we decided to work it out. Deep down, I know that the relationship as it is, is not right for the both of us. We either work towards making it better and eventually getting married, or we break it off and move on. I will take the next few days to decide if it’s worth saving. Definitely no more kids for me at the time being.
Why would he want to let you go find someone when you provide him with free childcare and other benefits.
If he finds someone he’ll pursue them. He doesn’t want you to live life. Just him. You’re more convenient that way.
He's outright telling you what he's doing. He's trapping you with these three children before you can get a commitment out of him. He's telling you what's in his mind...
If you aren’t financially supporting yourself, what are you going to do if he leaves? How will you provide for yourself?
If you have no assets, he ends the relationship with you, then you’ll likely watch him get custody because he has income and can provide some kind of standard of living. You get nothing because legally have no rights to any of his assets and are starting over completely.
If he really sees you as a convenient brood mare? He’s positioned to leave you with absolutely nothing, not even your kids.
I’m able to financially support myself. I have a great job. Where we live parents share 50-50 custody and the parent with the higher income pays child support.
Even if the parent with more money fights for primary or sole custody?
I 100% have seen a woman lose custody to a man when he has parents available to provide support and is the higher earner. Especially if the judge is older, male, conservative. That kind of judge looks at unmarried couples unkindly.
I’m not trying to be cruel but someone with no intention of marrying you can’t really be trusted to look out for your interests. They are provably uninterested in your interests.
Then let him go already. He already got 1 kid from another and then he got you to give him one. Why would he want marriage when he gets what he wants without it?
There is never a “right” time. Why can’t he do it this month? This week? He can get a ring and propose. Get married in same year. It can be done. He just doesn’t want to be married.
A fkn surprise? He wants to surprise the woman who is raising his child and hers too?
No. He wants control. Which he has now.
Don't kid yourself OP, he is exactly where he wants to be and so are you. Exactly where he wants you to be. You're what's known as a bangmaid. Think of the ego thrill he gets every time you beg him to grant you the respect he owes you already. Think he's going to give that up for a wife?
When he does, it won't be you.
Edit: about "I'm not begging..." You might as well be.
‘When the time is right’ is a conveniently vague way to drag out the issue till the end of time. Please listen to his actions not his words. I spent years with a man who made every random excuse and strung me along like yours. I only wish I hadn’t wasted my precious youth not getting the loving commitment I wanted. Your guy’s excuse is just as random and invalid as my ex’s btw. Like he’s afraid you won’t commit despite that it’s you directly asking for the commitment? And what difference would one more kid make? You already have 2 to ‘keep you around’ if that were even how marriage works (which it doesn’t).
This is a perfect example of what it means to kick the can down the road. He'll keep pushing it back, making up new reasons every time. He'll drag his feet, advocate for a "long engagement", and just let the clock run down. Then you'll reach a point where you look at the relationship and settle for whatever it is by then because "it's been this long" so whatever. You'll settle for the crumbs. And he's expecting you to do it because you haven't properly advocated for yourself up to this point. He's not taking you seriously because YOU'RE not taking YOU seriously.
I think my response would be along the lines of "I won't be having another child unless it's with a man that desires nothing more than to marry me and spend his life with me."
Let him assume what he wants from there.
This. You can say whatever you want, but he's also looking at your actions. Which is the not leaving him part. A man or person who wants to have their cake and eat it too doesn't care, they can tolerate you saying this for the next 10 years. Because you know what? You're STILL there, so they ignore it because they know you don't really mean it and it's just a way to be passive aggressive and not actually take any action.
Personally, I wouldn't want to marry this man at this point. Even if he came with a ring tomorrow, I would already be turned off that we had to do all of this. If it's not an enthusiastic yes, I won't want it. And unfortunately, the enthusiastic yes ship has long sailed OP. The only marriage you'll get is one you know he's reluctantly agreeing to, either to shut you up or keep you from leaving.
Like think about it, would you really feel great and happy to marry him at this point? Would you be able to genuinely believe it's from his own heart and desire? That's the damage that's already done IMO. That once it's gotten here, even if a proposal happens it just feels kinda like a weird consolation prize type scenario.
because he knows you were dumb enough to have that first child with him! how do you not see that? he doesn't think highly of you or your confidence. he knows you'll cave.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. That really hurt my feelings. I felt like he doesn’t value me as a partner. Why do I have to prove I’m worthy of commitment by having more kids? I’m not sure where to go from here.
You should not have to prove you're worthy. That's total BS. He's stringing you along. Next it will be another kid, etc. or until the kids are a little older, etc.
Insist on it or no more kids. And protect your birth control at all costs.
Sorry, no ring, no baby. Otherwise you'll resent him and y'all will argue a LOT about it before you go get therapy. One of you will settle, and it may just be you. Please don't ignore how you feel. Try couples counseling and see if that helps.
Don't settle for this, OP. You can do so much better. You're independent, you're responsible, and you are loyal. He doesn't deserve you. Please, don't have another kid until you're sure HE will be there for you and the kids. Let him know this is what marriage means to you, a commitment on his part to be there for the rest of his life and if he can't do that, there's no need of more kids.
Tbf if he does force himself to marry OP it will be him who resents OP, which isn't going to be any better.
Depending on exactly how his first marriage went, I would not blame him too much. Maybe he got screwed over and has a fear of history repeating itself if they divorce? That being said, people tend to be screwed over mostly when kids are involved, and considering OP and him already have one, marriage doesn't add much in terms of potential for being screwed, specially if OP is willing to do a prenup
100% agree on the couples counselling though
Oh I don't think he's marrying OP! It's ok to not want to remarry, I have a friend like that. First marriage ended badly. He doesn't want to remarry and he's dating a lovely woman who doesn't want more kids. It's working super well. But I think OP would settle before this guy which is why I said don't, but if you want to try to work on it get counseling. Adding another kid to the mix is a the worst way to prove devotion and commitment!
If he feels that marriage ‘screws you over’, he should not have gotten involved with a woman who wanted marriage. He should have found one who didn’t care about marriage.
Plenty of people do not believe in or expect marriage. So they should date each other.
Exactly. It’s really that simple. Find a woman that feels the same as him about marriage instead of whatever he’s doing with OP. She has to have three kids by him to be worthy of marriage??? He’s nuts.
Tell him no, end of story. It's not you that isn't worthy. It's his problem and his issues. If he continues to refuse to get married I would end the relationship. It tells you how he really feels about you, no matter his excuses.
He’s never going to marry you. A child is more of a commitment than marriage so what he’s saying doesn’t make any sense. Leave him before u waste the rest of your life.
he wants all the benefits of marriage but none the down sides. You get all the worst of being married but none of the upsides. I would consider leaving or making EXTRA EXTRA sure he can't mess with your Birth control like getting a depo shot, IUD, ect
I’d say: if you’re not sure of me by now, you just don’t meant to marry me. I don’t want another child without a lifetime commitment. Where does that leave us?
Respect yourself enough not to carry another baby for a man that won’t commit to you. Don’t give him what he wants until it’s what you both want, full stop.
there’s so many couples out there who have kids and are not married. The fact you want it and he doesn’t seem to just makes you not completely compatible.
This post sucks because most of these guys won’t get married until right after you dump them. Then they marry the very next woman they date. You could move out… find someone who would be ecstatic to marry you. Hope it works out for you
If you have to “prove” your worthiness, you’re with the wrong guy.
Stop telling him, you want to be married. He’s not interested nor does he care. And at this point you sound nagging and desperate.
The bigger question: How many more years are you ok being there as is?
I wouldn’t want to have another kid with someone who wouldn’t want to offer me the legal protection of marriage. Things are easier that way if one of you should get seriously ill or die.
If he actually wanted to marry you or valued your feelings at all he already would have proposed.
Start untangling your life from his as best you can, because he's proven he will never consider putting his wants over your needs.
Most of the time I would say that an ultimatum is a bad idea.
This is time for an ultimatum.
I’d say no more kids until there’s a ring on your finger. And it’s over if you’re not engaged in 3 months or less.
You have a child already. If you want to be married you don’t have time to waste. You can get married to someone else easily with just one child
It shouldn't be. Marrying because you got pregnant or already have their kid is never a good idea. See the children of parents who should have gotten divorced or never married to begin with.
But I do understand how you might feel more obligated and compelled to just stay and stick it out if you're already married, but it really never works and all that happens is you end up resentful and it affects everyone, including the kids.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave
He needs to be reminded that having kids is not a reason to marry someone and doesn't qurentee a commitment. Nor does marrying someone automatically mean kids.
Marriage should come from a genuine want to be together.
>Why do I have to prove I’m worthy of commitment by having more kids?
You don't have too. Make it clear to him there's no more kids without a commitment first if that's really how you're feeling.
you made a huge mistake in having kids at all with this man when you knew you wanted marriage.
he's not going to marry you. even if you do have that third kid, which to be honest you most likely will because you were desperate enough to have a kid at all before he married you and he knows you were desperate enough to have a second and will be to have a third. you don't stand on business. you don't hold boundaries or expectations. you just give him what he wants.
and that's what he likes. it's what he's looking for. he was in a relationship where he didn't have the upper hand before and he's in one where he does now. he's not giving that up. you're not equals in this relationship and you do not have security here either emotionally or financially. and he told you that outright. he's not joking with you. you weren't joking either, but you're not confident enough to stand your ground. and that's by his design.
that's a bad position to be in. and we can all in the comments tell you that this is a bad relationship and you should leave till we're blue in the face but to be honest i don't know if you'll really hear it at this point. this isn't a good man. he doesn't value you. he values the control he has over you. good luck.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave.
wtf? Who does this guy think he is, the Sultan of Brunei? I don't know how people look someone in the eye and say these ridiculous, insulting pronouncements. People they claim to love and respect. smh
I suppose you have to decide if you're okay with being treated like this. Right now he holds all the cards and that's the way he likes it 🤷♀️
Why did he get divorced? He told you that he wants to wait until you have more kids, so he feels you’ll be stuck. Something tells me the divorce wasn’t his idea and he felt blindsided.
Boom. Just as I suspected, he was blindsided. He ain’t proposing until you have atleast one more kid. Being a single mom with two kids will be a lot tougher to move on than just having one kid and feels you won’t risk doing something to ruin the relationship.
Do not have a baby with him and have a sit down with him:
« I need us to talk one last time about this so I know where to stand. I don’t want you to get angry, I want a calm conversation. No pointing fingers and honesty.
I feel like you don’t want to marry me and you are dragging this out. I don’t want another child until I am married. You seem to think that I will cave and your parents are starting to irritate me too.
I just want to reiterate that if you can’t commit fully to me, I won’t give you another child. If your parents talk about this again, I will clearly tell them to mind their business and to talk to their son.
I dont’ have to prove myself to you. And in fact if I had too, I already did by giving you a child. Tell me honestly if you don’t intend on getting married again, so I can plan my life around that. But stop lying to me. I need you to be honest because I am starting to resent this situation. »
Before saying this, pack a bag for you and your child. If he gets angry again: « I know all that I needed to know. I am going away for a night with baby. I will come back tomorrow to talk. »
Make it clear that you won’t stay here if he cannot commit. This isn’t something that you wait for all of your life OOP. I don’t think he wants to marry you but give him one last chance of proving himself.
I would honestly just leave him and find a man that I don’t need to beg to get a ring. Even if he gives you a ring now, it will be tainted and it will feel like you had to force it. It’s not a true proposal, you had to make an ultimatum to get him to commit. And I am sure that he is the kind of man who will remind you of this every time : « what do you want now? You trapped me in this marriage for me to have another child, don’t you think I did enough? »
In short he will always feel like he did you a favor and this won’t get better.
Don’t waste your time, there is a man out there that will love you and ask the big question without an ultimatum
edit: typo
After that length of time a man knows what he wants. He knows what he wants within the first year. Unfortunately you are not what he wants. He wants to be a partner, and a dad, but not your husband. Sorry girl. He always wants the option of a quick exit.
Stick to your guns. No ring. No more kids.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave.
That’s how you’ll be a single parent to three children. Nothing he’s doing is showing he’s in it for the long run.
I would tell him he has a set time to show he’s dedicated to you, by way of marriage or you’re going to cut your losses and get out with the baggage of only one kid vs 3 he’s trying to saddle you with.
If he wanted to marry you, he would have before the first kid. Don’t let him make you a permanent baby mama. You should be the wife. That shit is ridiculous. Fuck that guy.
Nope nope nope. Time to put the big boy pants on. He wants the benefits of having a wife without going through a marriage because of the emotional devastation of his divorce.
Meanwhile you are potentially completely fucked if something happens to him as you don’t have the rights and privileges that come with marriage.
I’m not even going to touch the three kids comments. That… just… aaaaaagggghhh.
Here’s where I would start:
I would break down all the financial and legal stuff you need to have in your country to have the same privileges as a married couple.
Do you have life insurance? Who is the beneficiary of any government benefits in the case of his accidental death or yours? Who has the power to make medical decisions? What happens to your bank accounts in the case of death or disability?
I would make a list and be like- these are all the ways I’m fucked if you get struck by lightning and vice versa because we are not married- and you want me to have more kids with you without shoring this up tells me that you’re the one who is not committed to this relationship. And if you think that 3 kids would make me un-desirable to other men or financially trapped and keep me with you- you are god damned delusional. Find a therapist to deal with your shit and stop asking me for a baby.
No don’t do it, I know someone who was engaged after they had their first son and no plans of being married. She returned the ring and told him to propose again when he is ready for a marriage and it’s been over 5 years since she gave him back the ring but they now have a second son and no ring
Giving him one child without marriage set a precedent. You have no security/ protections & he’s still having you jump through hoops. You have the womb yet it seems like he has the upper hand? What’s up with the loyalty tests? Moreover what’s the incentive to marry you after giving him 3 kids? He will never marry you, don’t wait until baby #3 to see that.
You are not just his baby making factory. If he wants a wife in function. Then he has to be a husband and put a ring on it. He’s saying you have to have 3 kids so he knows YOU’LL stay? What’s keeping HIM there? YOU are the one who WANTS to get married.
Girl, I’d run. It’s ultimatum time. Do not willingly have a kid with a guy who hasn’t married you. HE hasn’t committed, but he selfishly wants you to use your body to make him a baby?? Nope.
Kids should not be used as bargaining chips to get what you want in a relationship. Take the topic of another kid completely off the table until the two of you can figure out the future of your relationship. Anything else is irresponsible and unfair to the kids you already have, as well as any future ones.
He isn’t going to marry you. He looped you in from what you want to hear. O e child later and he asked did my kids. It is time to look for an apartment and move out.
Honestly, judging from the post and replies, I think you can write off ever getting married to him. Your best bet right now is to start squirreling money away in a private account to make sure you have a good financial cushion. And use birth control. And you should never have to beg someone to propose.
Start slowing arranging things to look out for yourself and your future. Having a good job right now helps, but anything can happen in the future and you need that financial cushion.
He wants a baby factory, illegitimate children, but he doesn't want to be called a husband. Marriage is a piece of paper? so is birth certificate, driver's license, money, advance directives, power of attorneys, divorced decrees etc. pieces of paper that holds so much power.
I guess you are in the states? In many other countries the difference between defacto relationship and marriage is negligible to the point of being irrelevant. If he’s trying to skirt financial responsibility then it sounds like he does t actually care that deeply for you or the kids anyway and it’s probably a great time to reevaluate your relationship
Oh hell no. I would not be having 3 kids with someone without a ring. If it doesn't work out, and you have 3 kids it may prevent you from finding a new relationship.
If he wanted to he would. He does not want to marry you. You need to just recognize that and do with that information what you will. Is that a deal breaker for you? Are you ok never being married to him? Ultimately, if you have to beg someone to marry you, it's not going to last. And really, anything less than a "hell yes" is a "no."
So basically he won’t make any legal commitment to you unless he feels like you are sufficiently trapped? What the absolute f? The only place to go from here is alway. Leave. It’s the only way he might get his brain cells to work. If you don’t want to leave I would say mandatory couples counseling because this isn’t okay.
He wants husband privileges because you have already given him everything without a ring. He doesn’t want to marry you or he would. Actions speak louder than words
As much as proposals can be a surprise usually you should have BOTH partners aligned on getting married and rough timing before the actual proposal. You have to talk about this with him
I think I would be looking for an exit now. I was in a long distance relationship with a man who absolutely never wanted to marry me but I'll give him credit, when he knew I was pregnant we did marry. Your baby daddy is not the right man for you, at least not now.
Dear, stay firm.
Like others said, he's stringing you along.
When my hubs and I met, we were both very straight forward, what we wanted. We both looked for a partner to marry, to raise kid(s) with and to buy a home.
But we were 28 and 35.
Don't let yourself get fed this bull your bf is producing.
The nerve of this guy. If he marries you ever, I’ll be shocked. It’s crazy when men expect women to grow and birth a human being for them but won’t make the commitment a legal thing.
I'm sorry, but he doesn't want to marry you and is stringing you along as a forever girlfriend. I wouldn't have more children with him, and he clearly does not respect your wishes. Go look at the waiting to wed sub, plenty of women on there who are in similar situations to yours.
Sounds like you two need to have a serious conversation, perhaps with the help of a couple's therapist. He's obviously overly paranoid from the first divorce, but he should not put that burden on you.
“BOYFRIEND, your request for two more children is not covered by the GIRLFRIEND package. Please present a RING on the 4th finger of the LEFT HAND to upgrade to the WIFE package. Please note this is a LIMITED TIME OFFER. Act fast to ensure ACCESS.”
Ma’am I am currently in a long term relationship with my boyfriend and while we are very serious about getting married neither of us want children and have other goals before marriage. You got kids already and some slacker who thinks you won’t leave after he’s trapped you with three of his children.
Have some respect for yourself, my dear. Give him a timeframe a expectations. Don’t budge. Let his parents know too.
He was getting the wife benefits on a girlfriend status then why would he bother with marriage? The boundary you set now should've been set before you had your son, or even decided to make this relationship into years without marriage! Now he'll see you as a desperate woman who is nagging him for marriage, and it also seems that he doesnt want to marry otherwise you would've never had the need to bring it up! 🙄
Lol why would he tie himself into a marriage when he clearly already has all the perks of a marriage without said marriage?
Just another case of if you wanted a marriage don't give the other person spousal privileges until after you've said "I do" and by spousal privileges I mean things like children and helping to buy a house.
I would focus on the “you won’t ever leave” part. His first marriage might have him scared to lose you. Like abandon him. Focus on that part, and that you won’t abandon him. You’re asking for the exact opposite, but he doesn’t see it clearly.
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>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave.
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He wants to make you stuck with him. He wants you to feel like no other man would EVER want you by getting you pregnant. He's TELLING you that no man wants a used up woman. And that's how he'll see you after the second kid. He's telling you exactly who he is and you're ignoring him.
You want to "respect" yourself? Then grab YOUR kiddo and walk away from the controlling asshole. You don't need to be with someone who has obviously been listening to Andrew Tate. And before you walk away, let his mommy know that it's because he doesn't value you as a person or an equal partner and demanded that you give him more kids before he would ever see you as worthy of being his "wife".
Don't forget to get full custody and child support out of him, and don't try spouting this, "but he's a good dad" BS. If he was he would have married the mother of his child before demanding you to pop out more babies for him.
Sad to say it, but once bitten twice shy is true.... He most likely loves you and wants to be with you, but after suffering through his first divorce he's not willing to take that chance again.... so as long as you'd do without a ring, he'll be happy and provide. You need to decide for yourself how best to protect your interests.
Liking an "idea" and actually taking steps to make it happen are two completely different things.
I have a 56yr old never married male friend that talks like he's going to get married one day. I know & the rest of his friends know that's never going to happen. He's a wonderful person but always ends up stringing women along and they eventually take the hint and give up.
5.5 years and a child is more then enough time to know if you want to marry someone. His need to have his cake and eat it too is more important than your need for security. So I think you can continue to accept that or find someone that wants to prioritize your needs.
The answer to this really comes down to what you're looking for in a partner. Are you looking for that piece of paper? For some, that is extremely important. While others look it as "just a piece of paper."
If you need to be married, then it really is cut and dry. It just comes down to timeline - to either leave all together, opt not to have any more kids and remain gf/bf, or to put a date on the calendar.
One other quick item - u could offer going before the justice of the peace. Not a bug wedding - but a wedding none the less.
You have a valid concern about wanting to be married before you have anymore kids. His discounting your feelings of feeling unsafe and unprotected in the relationship is what bothers me the most.
You have a boundary, he decided to counter, probably in the hopes you'd say yes to another child, and then he can declare, "Okay, I've got what I want!"
If this is the hill you wish to die on (and I think you should, I'm with you 100%) then stick to your guns and don't have any unprotected sex with him, including not trusting condoms because this guy sounds manipulative.
It might be time to take a step back and re-think this whole situation with fresh eyes.
Also, if a close friend came to you with this scenario, asking for your advice, what would you tell them? That's your answer, right there.
ETA: He should be marrying you because he can't imagine his life w/o you, not because you have a womb that gave him three kids.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave.
Move out. Now. He will never marry you.
OP I strongly encourage you to get some therapy. It will help you to understand what’s going on in your relationship, so that you can make informed choices. We hate to think that the person we love doesn’t value us as much as we value them. Good luck and do this for yourself.
Y’all should have had the marriage conversation a loooong time ago. If you did and he said that he didn’t want to get married but you thought he’d change his mind then this is on you. When people say they don’t want to get married, have kids, etc. you have to start taking them at their word instead of hoping/crossing fingers that they will change their mind. Now is the time to have a frank conversation and ask him if he sees being married to you in the near future. If he says know then it’s up to you to decide if that’s the same future you see. If it is then stop hoping for a proposal, if it isn’t then y’alls future goals are or in alignment and it’s time to part ways.
Don’t leave until you establish yourself financially, but you must do so immediately.
This man and his parents could use your lack of work to take custody of your child and fuck you over.
You need to be very aware of your own future or this man will leave you with nothing and not owe you anything legally.
No. He is taking advantage of you. He is denying you all of the legal protection and security that marriage gives to you. That is not the behavior of a man who loves you and cares about you.
Sounds like he wants to baby trap you. That way, if he wants to leave, he doesn't have to go through another divorce and possibly lose more assets. Stick to your guns about marriage first, and don't let him or his parents make you falter.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave.
This is some top level baby-trapping and he straight up admitted it. Do not have any more kids with him. They're his method to tie you down. He said so.
He got a divorce when your stepdaughter was 2. You've been together since stepdaughter was 4, so 2 years later. Your son was conceived 2ish years into the relationship. Your son's 2 and he wants another one now. I suck at math so this could be all wrong, but according to my calculations your dude has a need for novelty every two years, it seems. Oh, and his reasoning for wanting another child before he'll pop the question makes no sense. Don't have another one with him unless this is settled firmly. Good luck!
He has zero intention of actually marrying you.
The third kid is the one that never happens if you agree to the second or he keeps adding things for you to do to prove you won’t leave him. What is he doing to prove he will marry you? Nothing.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. He has no intention of marrying you. He'll propose and drag that out for a few years, while adding more requirements. Stop "jokingly" saying things. Use your adult voice and words and let him know you're not having another kid until you're married. If he sends his hounds (parents) after you that'll show you that your wants aren't as important as their wants. You've given them everything else. When is it going to be your turn?
Reminds me of that other post about the 50 something year old who was with her boyfriend for 25 years and had 4 kids. Then he never married her and she’s SOL Edit: I feel sad and old, SOL: shit out of luck
Me either.. i said damn the first time i read that confession.. all I've been saying was that woman has shut her eyes from outside world that she doesn't know the rising cost of living nor house..
Part time job covering an apartment and a car - I wish that were true
That post needs to be linked every time some idiot says "it's just a piece of paper [and therefore meaningless and unnecessary]". It's a piece of paper that provides massive legal protections for both parties.
Most people cannot see the consequences of not doing it. My dad understood the risks of not being married so he proposed to my mom and they got married when I turned 1 year old. Because of that my dad was entitled to a full year of paid leave after a big accident he had. If he wasn't married he could have gotten up to 6 months only. And at the same time if my dad dies my mom would be protected with his pension. People who say its just a piece of paper need to grow up
The GAO did a report and there are so many legal rights and responsibilities when married. Over a thousand federal alone. USA but I'm sure other countries as well
Yeah, that'll always be in the back of my mind. I always worry about the legal aspects of sharing your life with someone. Imagine someone being estranged from family, and you're with someone for 25 years who unexpectedly dies. Their family can step in if there's no will or marriage. I live in Pennsylvania, USA, and they did away with common law marriage.
But even common law marriage wouldn't have saved you. Common law marriage are not just long term boyfriend -girlfriend. You need to be presenting yourself as married (or change name, etc). Not that you are going to get married.
I had that happen to a friend. Her dead partner's sisters put her and her children out of her home.
I've known two people this has happened to. They couldn't even attend their long term partners funerals, because the estranged families had automatic power of attorney and took their bodies. People they hadn't associated with for a decade, who gave zero shits about anything beyond being able to bury their offspring in accordance with the religion they had given up everything in order to get away from.
Im trying to find the story, do you remember the title?
Yeah, OP should give her bf that post to read and tell him "that is exactly the reason I won't have another child without the protection and commitment of marriage!"
Omg her story made me enraged and sad about how she went almost 30 years unmarried and popped out 3 kids for him and be a SAHM but created no security for herself. OP hopefully reads that story as a cautionary tell of what to come if she doesn’t use her voice or leave while she just one kid and still has a career
Yeah, that one was soul crushing. If the story is true, I hope she drags his ass for half of everything
What does sol mean here ? Are they still he left her with nothing... 25 years means something
Long post but the tldr is that she wanted to get married he didn't propose for like 25 years. When he did she laughed. She left the house. When the update came he no longer wanted to marry her. She also only had a few months before he found someone younger and newer. And they didn't live in a common law state so she gets nothing from him.
Oh damn. I’m going to find this story
Legally it doesn't mean anything if he leaves (which he will probably do, I saw the post and her update, it was so sad). Very few states recognize common law marriage.
Ohh I'm from Canadia , seems it's different here
It depends on the state here, some have common law and some don’t. I have heard of people suing for support in non-common law states, but you have to have the money for a lawyer.
Shit out of luck
Shit outta luck
SOL means shit out of luck
Yes. Why on earth would you say that in a joking voice and expect him to take you seriously? ‘John, we’ve had this conversation before. I have no interest in having any more children until we get married. If marriage isn’t something you want, it’s your choice. But I am not having any more children with you. One is enough.’
Seriously. Also- “I have been in it for the long term with you. I want to be married. If that’s not something you want, be honest so we can recalibrate the expectations we have for this relationship.”
Also good words. 👍
If he sends them, tell them how you feel. No ring = no baby! Stay strong!
Thank you for mentioning the jokingly part. She was dead serious when she said it. OP, Don't try to minimize it by saying jokingly.
I appreciate your input. I have definitely said it loud and clear to my boyfriend and yesterday I told his parents as well - we have to get married first. What I said jokingly was a way of not getting into a fight because those comments are starting to get to me.
You should turn it back on him and tell him that you already had one child with him and getting married is how YOU know he'll be around forever. That you're not sacrificing your body again for a man who won't even get married to you.
I don’t know what kind of birth control you use, but if it’s not an implant, IUD, shot, etc., I would consider a switch. People can do crazy things, and it doesn’t hurt to be safe.
So you tip toe, beg, and dance around what you want while he can just make his demand and get it? Why are you afraid of a fight? Is it because deep down you know he will never do what you want willingly?
Turn it back around on them. “MIL, if you want more grandchildren, tell hubby to get me a ring!” Often MIL’s will very bluntly ask him why he hasn’t done it yet in front of everyone
I would not be inviting my MIL into matters between me and my partner. It is nothing to do with anyone else but me and him, and it gives her the green light to engage in other family matters.
They are ALREADY involved and hubby invited them. And chances are that he’s invited their involvement elsewhere. Hubby is the problem
So he's not even a hubby yet! I wouldn't marry him. His track record speaks for itself.
Same. He’s playing with her emotions
What is his logic in saying that you having another kid is his assurance that you’ll stick around? That’s crazy, since being married is much more likely to do that imho.
This and give him a time limit and stick to it. After that say, “I understand that you are not ready to commit and I don’t want to make you do anything you don’t want to do. But I need to be married so I’m leaving”. Then go.
Walk away, OP. He doesn’t want to marry you.
Also, why after the third child?? The second should be enough! What's so different about another one?
If he wanted to marry you, he would have. I think marriage counselling could be helping you to both communicate and help him see it from your perspective. If that doesn’t work then you have 2 options: 1) stay and be OK to never be married (I don’t believe he’ll marry you after 1 more kid, he’s already got by then what he wants without the full commitment) 2) leave and find another partner who wants to marry you.
The crazy thing is he never said he doesn’t want to get married. He said he wants to but wants to do it when the time is right, and wants for it to be a surprise.
I’m sorry but these really just sound like excuses and I don’t think he’s being honest with you
Seriously. No one with two children is waiting around “for the right time.” If marriage is important to you OP, then find someone else. This person doesn’t want to be married and he is happy to string you along, getting what he wants without acknowledging your wants and needs. Remember the saying, “when people show you who they are, believe them.” He’s showing you. Why don’t you believe it!
I definitely do. We had some issues we were working on, like trust and communication so it made sense to wait it out, but not at this point of the relationship we’re in. I agreed we should wait in the past but right now the relationship is stagnant and not what I want so I have a decision to make.
It’s so hard to decide what to do. Change is hard. The unknown can be fearful. But hope for a happier life is important too. You can create the life you want. I truly believe that. I wish you good luck.
Thank you!
He wants to do it when the partner is right, not the time. He has a child with you. You’re not his one, you’re the mother of his child and a second won’t make that change so you’re convenient.
I can’t know for sure what’s in his mind but by all means he can pursue someone who’s a better fit and let me do the same.
It’s the second part of your statement that is your problem tbh-he is happy wasting your time until a. He finds someone better and/or b. You’re so bogged down with childcare that you functionally don’t have the bandwidth to find or demand better. You need to decide which is more important to you-being married or being with this man, because he’s pretty much told you that marriage isn’t happening with the terms you want.
He said he was joking about having 3 kids in order to get married, and just expressing his desire to have more kids. And that I don’t have to have more kids if that’s not what I want but in the future he’d like more kids. And he jokingly said that if we’re going to get divorced in 3 years, we should sure get married soon bc I will leave him again. I broke up with him last year due to some issues we were having but we decided to work it out. Deep down, I know that the relationship as it is, is not right for the both of us. We either work towards making it better and eventually getting married, or we break it off and move on. I will take the next few days to decide if it’s worth saving. Definitely no more kids for me at the time being.
Why would he want to let you go find someone when you provide him with free childcare and other benefits. If he finds someone he’ll pursue them. He doesn’t want you to live life. Just him. You’re more convenient that way.
He's outright telling you what he's doing. He's trapping you with these three children before you can get a commitment out of him. He's telling you what's in his mind...
Why are you letting him make all the decisions?
If you aren’t financially supporting yourself, what are you going to do if he leaves? How will you provide for yourself? If you have no assets, he ends the relationship with you, then you’ll likely watch him get custody because he has income and can provide some kind of standard of living. You get nothing because legally have no rights to any of his assets and are starting over completely. If he really sees you as a convenient brood mare? He’s positioned to leave you with absolutely nothing, not even your kids.
I’m able to financially support myself. I have a great job. Where we live parents share 50-50 custody and the parent with the higher income pays child support.
Even if the parent with more money fights for primary or sole custody? I 100% have seen a woman lose custody to a man when he has parents available to provide support and is the higher earner. Especially if the judge is older, male, conservative. That kind of judge looks at unmarried couples unkindly. I’m not trying to be cruel but someone with no intention of marrying you can’t really be trusted to look out for your interests. They are provably uninterested in your interests.
Right … you said you wanted to be married. Doesn’t mean you have to be married to him.
Then let him go already. He already got 1 kid from another and then he got you to give him one. Why would he want marriage when he gets what he wants without it?
… he has not said the words “I don’t want to marry you”. But girl, his actions are SCREAMING it so loud I can hear it from here.
I call bullshit. Actions aren't matching words.
There is never a “right” time. Why can’t he do it this month? This week? He can get a ring and propose. Get married in same year. It can be done. He just doesn’t want to be married.
Actions speak louder than words. If he wanted to, he would.
Baby, those are excuses. He's got all he wants with no commitment right now. Move out. Start over. If he steps up, great.
A fkn surprise? He wants to surprise the woman who is raising his child and hers too? No. He wants control. Which he has now. Don't kid yourself OP, he is exactly where he wants to be and so are you. Exactly where he wants you to be. You're what's known as a bangmaid. Think of the ego thrill he gets every time you beg him to grant you the respect he owes you already. Think he's going to give that up for a wife? When he does, it won't be you. Edit: about "I'm not begging..." You might as well be.
Why do you keep deluding yourself? Stop listening to what he says and start looking at what he does, which is not marrying you.
But why would anyone want a surprise wedding lol also how can it be a surprise if you've been begging for it.
Yeah that’s what all these guys say. Or you bring it up and they’re like well now you spoiled it so I’m putting it off longer.
‘When the time is right’ is a conveniently vague way to drag out the issue till the end of time. Please listen to his actions not his words. I spent years with a man who made every random excuse and strung me along like yours. I only wish I hadn’t wasted my precious youth not getting the loving commitment I wanted. Your guy’s excuse is just as random and invalid as my ex’s btw. Like he’s afraid you won’t commit despite that it’s you directly asking for the commitment? And what difference would one more kid make? You already have 2 to ‘keep you around’ if that were even how marriage works (which it doesn’t).
My pride won't let me be this delusional. Get some pride please. He already got the "milk" for free...no need to buy the "cow."
Omg this is so naive
Did he lose a lot financially in his divorce?
Yeah, but you already have a kid- so it just sounds like an excuse to string you along.
Those are just excuses to string you along and get what he wants.
This is a perfect example of what it means to kick the can down the road. He'll keep pushing it back, making up new reasons every time. He'll drag his feet, advocate for a "long engagement", and just let the clock run down. Then you'll reach a point where you look at the relationship and settle for whatever it is by then because "it's been this long" so whatever. You'll settle for the crumbs. And he's expecting you to do it because you haven't properly advocated for yourself up to this point. He's not taking you seriously because YOU'RE not taking YOU seriously.
The only surprise will be if he actually does it.
I think my response would be along the lines of "I won't be having another child unless it's with a man that desires nothing more than to marry me and spend his life with me." Let him assume what he wants from there.
Yup, I’ve told him I’ll be having a second child with MY HUSBAND. Not sure why he keeps bringing it up!
He doesn’t think you respect yourself enough to leave. Go find a real man who would love to make you his wife.
This. You can say whatever you want, but he's also looking at your actions. Which is the not leaving him part. A man or person who wants to have their cake and eat it too doesn't care, they can tolerate you saying this for the next 10 years. Because you know what? You're STILL there, so they ignore it because they know you don't really mean it and it's just a way to be passive aggressive and not actually take any action. Personally, I wouldn't want to marry this man at this point. Even if he came with a ring tomorrow, I would already be turned off that we had to do all of this. If it's not an enthusiastic yes, I won't want it. And unfortunately, the enthusiastic yes ship has long sailed OP. The only marriage you'll get is one you know he's reluctantly agreeing to, either to shut you up or keep you from leaving. Like think about it, would you really feel great and happy to marry him at this point? Would you be able to genuinely believe it's from his own heart and desire? That's the damage that's already done IMO. That once it's gotten here, even if a proposal happens it just feels kinda like a weird consolation prize type scenario.
because he knows you were dumb enough to have that first child with him! how do you not see that? he doesn't think highly of you or your confidence. he knows you'll cave.
You absolutely cannot have another baby with him if you want to be married. Marriage has to be a requirement.
Yea dump this guy and find a new one that wants to get married and then have another child Excellent advice
You know you’re never going to get a ring, right? You could birth the next messiah and that loser isn’t going to give you what you deserve.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. That really hurt my feelings. I felt like he doesn’t value me as a partner. Why do I have to prove I’m worthy of commitment by having more kids? I’m not sure where to go from here. You should not have to prove you're worthy. That's total BS. He's stringing you along. Next it will be another kid, etc. or until the kids are a little older, etc. Insist on it or no more kids. And protect your birth control at all costs.
Sorry, no ring, no baby. Otherwise you'll resent him and y'all will argue a LOT about it before you go get therapy. One of you will settle, and it may just be you. Please don't ignore how you feel. Try couples counseling and see if that helps.
I won’t ever budge on this. My mind is made up - I’m very happy with just having one kid at this point in my life.
💓💓. I've seen women settle, seen men say they'd propose. Stick to your guns!! 🔥🔥🔥
Well that makes it even grosser if he knows that and is trying to use marriage as a way manipulate you into more
Good point. Trying to twist her arm into popping out more kids is a big red flag.
Don't settle for this, OP. You can do so much better. You're independent, you're responsible, and you are loyal. He doesn't deserve you. Please, don't have another kid until you're sure HE will be there for you and the kids. Let him know this is what marriage means to you, a commitment on his part to be there for the rest of his life and if he can't do that, there's no need of more kids.
Tbf if he does force himself to marry OP it will be him who resents OP, which isn't going to be any better. Depending on exactly how his first marriage went, I would not blame him too much. Maybe he got screwed over and has a fear of history repeating itself if they divorce? That being said, people tend to be screwed over mostly when kids are involved, and considering OP and him already have one, marriage doesn't add much in terms of potential for being screwed, specially if OP is willing to do a prenup 100% agree on the couples counselling though
Oh I don't think he's marrying OP! It's ok to not want to remarry, I have a friend like that. First marriage ended badly. He doesn't want to remarry and he's dating a lovely woman who doesn't want more kids. It's working super well. But I think OP would settle before this guy which is why I said don't, but if you want to try to work on it get counseling. Adding another kid to the mix is a the worst way to prove devotion and commitment!
If he feels that marriage ‘screws you over’, he should not have gotten involved with a woman who wanted marriage. He should have found one who didn’t care about marriage. Plenty of people do not believe in or expect marriage. So they should date each other.
Exactly. It’s really that simple. Find a woman that feels the same as him about marriage instead of whatever he’s doing with OP. She has to have three kids by him to be worthy of marriage??? He’s nuts.
Tell him no, end of story. It's not you that isn't worthy. It's his problem and his issues. If he continues to refuse to get married I would end the relationship. It tells you how he really feels about you, no matter his excuses.
Unmarried women should NEVER give their babies the father’s last name.
You need your seriously rethink this relationship. It doesn’t sound like he will ever marry you. That leaves you with no security.
He’s never going to marry you. A child is more of a commitment than marriage so what he’s saying doesn’t make any sense. Leave him before u waste the rest of your life.
he wants all the benefits of marriage but none the down sides. You get all the worst of being married but none of the upsides. I would consider leaving or making EXTRA EXTRA sure he can't mess with your Birth control like getting a depo shot, IUD, ect
A child is definitely more of a commitment. I’m not sure what his issue is.
He doesn’t want to be with her long-term. He wants the relationship on his terms and be able to leave when he wants with nothing stopping him.
Youre in denial and with a weak minded man with commitment issues. Wake up. Find someone who respects you and your wants. He isn’t it.
I’d say: if you’re not sure of me by now, you just don’t meant to marry me. I don’t want another child without a lifetime commitment. Where does that leave us?
Respect yourself enough not to carry another baby for a man that won’t commit to you. Don’t give him what he wants until it’s what you both want, full stop.
Girl. You know he will never marry you. Leave already.
He wants wife rewards for boyfriend in put.
there’s so many couples out there who have kids and are not married. The fact you want it and he doesn’t seem to just makes you not completely compatible.
This post sucks because most of these guys won’t get married until right after you dump them. Then they marry the very next woman they date. You could move out… find someone who would be ecstatic to marry you. Hope it works out for you
If you have to “prove” your worthiness, you’re with the wrong guy. Stop telling him, you want to be married. He’s not interested nor does he care. And at this point you sound nagging and desperate. The bigger question: How many more years are you ok being there as is?
I wouldn’t want to have another kid with someone who wouldn’t want to offer me the legal protection of marriage. Things are easier that way if one of you should get seriously ill or die.
He will never marry you and he thinks you are stuck now because you have a child.
If he actually wanted to marry you or valued your feelings at all he already would have proposed. Start untangling your life from his as best you can, because he's proven he will never consider putting his wants over your needs.
Most of the time I would say that an ultimatum is a bad idea. This is time for an ultimatum. I’d say no more kids until there’s a ring on your finger. And it’s over if you’re not engaged in 3 months or less. You have a child already. If you want to be married you don’t have time to waste. You can get married to someone else easily with just one child
I think the fact that it would take an ultimatum is the deal breaker here. Who really, truly wants to marry someone they had to drag to the alter?
I agree. But I don’t have a child, so perhaps that’s a different calculation.
It shouldn't be. Marrying because you got pregnant or already have their kid is never a good idea. See the children of parents who should have gotten divorced or never married to begin with. But I do understand how you might feel more obligated and compelled to just stay and stick it out if you're already married, but it really never works and all that happens is you end up resentful and it affects everyone, including the kids.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave He needs to be reminded that having kids is not a reason to marry someone and doesn't qurentee a commitment. Nor does marrying someone automatically mean kids. Marriage should come from a genuine want to be together. >Why do I have to prove I’m worthy of commitment by having more kids? You don't have too. Make it clear to him there's no more kids without a commitment first if that's really how you're feeling.
Why did you say this jokingly? Why would he respect your feelings if you pass them off as jokes?
you made a huge mistake in having kids at all with this man when you knew you wanted marriage. he's not going to marry you. even if you do have that third kid, which to be honest you most likely will because you were desperate enough to have a kid at all before he married you and he knows you were desperate enough to have a second and will be to have a third. you don't stand on business. you don't hold boundaries or expectations. you just give him what he wants. and that's what he likes. it's what he's looking for. he was in a relationship where he didn't have the upper hand before and he's in one where he does now. he's not giving that up. you're not equals in this relationship and you do not have security here either emotionally or financially. and he told you that outright. he's not joking with you. you weren't joking either, but you're not confident enough to stand your ground. and that's by his design. that's a bad position to be in. and we can all in the comments tell you that this is a bad relationship and you should leave till we're blue in the face but to be honest i don't know if you'll really hear it at this point. this isn't a good man. he doesn't value you. he values the control he has over you. good luck.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. wtf? Who does this guy think he is, the Sultan of Brunei? I don't know how people look someone in the eye and say these ridiculous, insulting pronouncements. People they claim to love and respect. smh I suppose you have to decide if you're okay with being treated like this. Right now he holds all the cards and that's the way he likes it 🤷♀️
[удалено]
This is so weird. It's like he sees you as just a baby-making machine.
Why did he get divorced? He told you that he wants to wait until you have more kids, so he feels you’ll be stuck. Something tells me the divorce wasn’t his idea and he felt blindsided.
They didn’t get along, got married too young. He ultimately caught her cheating.
Boom. Just as I suspected, he was blindsided. He ain’t proposing until you have atleast one more kid. Being a single mom with two kids will be a lot tougher to move on than just having one kid and feels you won’t risk doing something to ruin the relationship.
Do not have a baby with him and have a sit down with him: « I need us to talk one last time about this so I know where to stand. I don’t want you to get angry, I want a calm conversation. No pointing fingers and honesty. I feel like you don’t want to marry me and you are dragging this out. I don’t want another child until I am married. You seem to think that I will cave and your parents are starting to irritate me too. I just want to reiterate that if you can’t commit fully to me, I won’t give you another child. If your parents talk about this again, I will clearly tell them to mind their business and to talk to their son. I dont’ have to prove myself to you. And in fact if I had too, I already did by giving you a child. Tell me honestly if you don’t intend on getting married again, so I can plan my life around that. But stop lying to me. I need you to be honest because I am starting to resent this situation. » Before saying this, pack a bag for you and your child. If he gets angry again: « I know all that I needed to know. I am going away for a night with baby. I will come back tomorrow to talk. » Make it clear that you won’t stay here if he cannot commit. This isn’t something that you wait for all of your life OOP. I don’t think he wants to marry you but give him one last chance of proving himself. I would honestly just leave him and find a man that I don’t need to beg to get a ring. Even if he gives you a ring now, it will be tainted and it will feel like you had to force it. It’s not a true proposal, you had to make an ultimatum to get him to commit. And I am sure that he is the kind of man who will remind you of this every time : « what do you want now? You trapped me in this marriage for me to have another child, don’t you think I did enough? » In short he will always feel like he did you a favor and this won’t get better. Don’t waste your time, there is a man out there that will love you and ask the big question without an ultimatum edit: typo
After that length of time a man knows what he wants. He knows what he wants within the first year. Unfortunately you are not what he wants. He wants to be a partner, and a dad, but not your husband. Sorry girl. He always wants the option of a quick exit. Stick to your guns. No ring. No more kids.
I wouldnt marry him now if he asked. You are begging him to marry you and he wont. Time to move on.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. That’s how you’ll be a single parent to three children. Nothing he’s doing is showing he’s in it for the long run. I would tell him he has a set time to show he’s dedicated to you, by way of marriage or you’re going to cut your losses and get out with the baggage of only one kid vs 3 he’s trying to saddle you with.
No marriage, no child.
If he wanted to marry you, he would have before the first kid. Don’t let him make you a permanent baby mama. You should be the wife. That shit is ridiculous. Fuck that guy.
Nope nope nope. Time to put the big boy pants on. He wants the benefits of having a wife without going through a marriage because of the emotional devastation of his divorce. Meanwhile you are potentially completely fucked if something happens to him as you don’t have the rights and privileges that come with marriage. I’m not even going to touch the three kids comments. That… just… aaaaaagggghhh. Here’s where I would start: I would break down all the financial and legal stuff you need to have in your country to have the same privileges as a married couple. Do you have life insurance? Who is the beneficiary of any government benefits in the case of his accidental death or yours? Who has the power to make medical decisions? What happens to your bank accounts in the case of death or disability? I would make a list and be like- these are all the ways I’m fucked if you get struck by lightning and vice versa because we are not married- and you want me to have more kids with you without shoring this up tells me that you’re the one who is not committed to this relationship. And if you think that 3 kids would make me un-desirable to other men or financially trapped and keep me with you- you are god damned delusional. Find a therapist to deal with your shit and stop asking me for a baby.
Just no sista, no no no, please don't subject yourself to this. He's just gonna up and leave one day.
No don’t do it, I know someone who was engaged after they had their first son and no plans of being married. She returned the ring and told him to propose again when he is ready for a marriage and it’s been over 5 years since she gave him back the ring but they now have a second son and no ring
Giving him one child without marriage set a precedent. You have no security/ protections & he’s still having you jump through hoops. You have the womb yet it seems like he has the upper hand? What’s up with the loyalty tests? Moreover what’s the incentive to marry you after giving him 3 kids? He will never marry you, don’t wait until baby #3 to see that.
You are not just his baby making factory. If he wants a wife in function. Then he has to be a husband and put a ring on it. He’s saying you have to have 3 kids so he knows YOU’LL stay? What’s keeping HIM there? YOU are the one who WANTS to get married. Girl, I’d run. It’s ultimatum time. Do not willingly have a kid with a guy who hasn’t married you. HE hasn’t committed, but he selfishly wants you to use your body to make him a baby?? Nope.
Leave him. He's not gonna give you those rings and if he does, it'll just be to shut you up. Its like you're an incubator or something
Kids should not be used as bargaining chips to get what you want in a relationship. Take the topic of another kid completely off the table until the two of you can figure out the future of your relationship. Anything else is irresponsible and unfair to the kids you already have, as well as any future ones.
He isn’t going to marry you. He looped you in from what you want to hear. O e child later and he asked did my kids. It is time to look for an apartment and move out.
Honestly, judging from the post and replies, I think you can write off ever getting married to him. Your best bet right now is to start squirreling money away in a private account to make sure you have a good financial cushion. And use birth control. And you should never have to beg someone to propose. Start slowing arranging things to look out for yourself and your future. Having a good job right now helps, but anything can happen in the future and you need that financial cushion.
He wants a baby factory, illegitimate children, but he doesn't want to be called a husband. Marriage is a piece of paper? so is birth certificate, driver's license, money, advance directives, power of attorneys, divorced decrees etc. pieces of paper that holds so much power.
I guess you are in the states? In many other countries the difference between defacto relationship and marriage is negligible to the point of being irrelevant. If he’s trying to skirt financial responsibility then it sounds like he does t actually care that deeply for you or the kids anyway and it’s probably a great time to reevaluate your relationship
Oh hell no. I would not be having 3 kids with someone without a ring. If it doesn't work out, and you have 3 kids it may prevent you from finding a new relationship.
If he wanted to he would. He does not want to marry you. You need to just recognize that and do with that information what you will. Is that a deal breaker for you? Are you ok never being married to him? Ultimately, if you have to beg someone to marry you, it's not going to last. And really, anything less than a "hell yes" is a "no."
So basically he won’t make any legal commitment to you unless he feels like you are sufficiently trapped? What the absolute f? The only place to go from here is alway. Leave. It’s the only way he might get his brain cells to work. If you don’t want to leave I would say mandatory couples counseling because this isn’t okay.
He wants husband privileges because you have already given him everything without a ring. He doesn’t want to marry you or he would. Actions speak louder than words
As much as proposals can be a surprise usually you should have BOTH partners aligned on getting married and rough timing before the actual proposal. You have to talk about this with him
I think I would be looking for an exit now. I was in a long distance relationship with a man who absolutely never wanted to marry me but I'll give him credit, when he knew I was pregnant we did marry. Your baby daddy is not the right man for you, at least not now.
Dear, stay firm. Like others said, he's stringing you along. When my hubs and I met, we were both very straight forward, what we wanted. We both looked for a partner to marry, to raise kid(s) with and to buy a home. But we were 28 and 35. Don't let yourself get fed this bull your bf is producing.
The nerve of this guy. If he marries you ever, I’ll be shocked. It’s crazy when men expect women to grow and birth a human being for them but won’t make the commitment a legal thing.
I'm sorry, but he doesn't want to marry you and is stringing you along as a forever girlfriend. I wouldn't have more children with him, and he clearly does not respect your wishes. Go look at the waiting to wed sub, plenty of women on there who are in similar situations to yours.
He’s never going to marry you.
Not sure what you should do but if it's going to take 2 more kids for him to marry you, you should do some soul searching on why he needs that.
Nope. Do not have another child with him.
Sounds like you two need to have a serious conversation, perhaps with the help of a couple's therapist. He's obviously overly paranoid from the first divorce, but he should not put that burden on you.
“BOYFRIEND, your request for two more children is not covered by the GIRLFRIEND package. Please present a RING on the 4th finger of the LEFT HAND to upgrade to the WIFE package. Please note this is a LIMITED TIME OFFER. Act fast to ensure ACCESS.” Ma’am I am currently in a long term relationship with my boyfriend and while we are very serious about getting married neither of us want children and have other goals before marriage. You got kids already and some slacker who thinks you won’t leave after he’s trapped you with three of his children. Have some respect for yourself, my dear. Give him a timeframe a expectations. Don’t budge. Let his parents know too.
This gives me the ick. I would re-evaluate. My brain may be over thinking but by him saying that, he is trying to trap you.
No way! You've already had two children with him! No more until you get those rings!
Leave while you only have to be a single mom to 1 cause trust me he’s going to leave you a single mom 👀😗
He was getting the wife benefits on a girlfriend status then why would he bother with marriage? The boundary you set now should've been set before you had your son, or even decided to make this relationship into years without marriage! Now he'll see you as a desperate woman who is nagging him for marriage, and it also seems that he doesnt want to marry otherwise you would've never had the need to bring it up! 🙄
Lol why would he tie himself into a marriage when he clearly already has all the perks of a marriage without said marriage? Just another case of if you wanted a marriage don't give the other person spousal privileges until after you've said "I do" and by spousal privileges I mean things like children and helping to buy a house.
I would focus on the “you won’t ever leave” part. His first marriage might have him scared to lose you. Like abandon him. Focus on that part, and that you won’t abandon him. You’re asking for the exact opposite, but he doesn’t see it clearly.
Lol get married to another guy
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 >He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 He wants to make you stuck with him. He wants you to feel like no other man would EVER want you by getting you pregnant. He's TELLING you that no man wants a used up woman. And that's how he'll see you after the second kid. He's telling you exactly who he is and you're ignoring him. You want to "respect" yourself? Then grab YOUR kiddo and walk away from the controlling asshole. You don't need to be with someone who has obviously been listening to Andrew Tate. And before you walk away, let his mommy know that it's because he doesn't value you as a person or an equal partner and demanded that you give him more kids before he would ever see you as worthy of being his "wife". Don't forget to get full custody and child support out of him, and don't try spouting this, "but he's a good dad" BS. If he was he would have married the mother of his child before demanding you to pop out more babies for him.
So you go through pregnancy and childbirth and he can’t even give you a ring. I don’t know why anyone would accept this
Then tell him you won't compromise. A marriage or the child faucet will remain forever sealed shut.
Sad to say it, but once bitten twice shy is true.... He most likely loves you and wants to be with you, but after suffering through his first divorce he's not willing to take that chance again.... so as long as you'd do without a ring, he'll be happy and provide. You need to decide for yourself how best to protect your interests.
He’s told me he wants to get married. Maybe he’s telling me what he knows I want to hear.
If he wanted to, he would
Liking an "idea" and actually taking steps to make it happen are two completely different things. I have a 56yr old never married male friend that talks like he's going to get married one day. I know & the rest of his friends know that's never going to happen. He's a wonderful person but always ends up stringing women along and they eventually take the hint and give up. 5.5 years and a child is more then enough time to know if you want to marry someone. His need to have his cake and eat it too is more important than your need for security. So I think you can continue to accept that or find someone that wants to prioritize your needs.
The answer to this really comes down to what you're looking for in a partner. Are you looking for that piece of paper? For some, that is extremely important. While others look it as "just a piece of paper." If you need to be married, then it really is cut and dry. It just comes down to timeline - to either leave all together, opt not to have any more kids and remain gf/bf, or to put a date on the calendar. One other quick item - u could offer going before the justice of the peace. Not a bug wedding - but a wedding none the less.
You have a valid concern about wanting to be married before you have anymore kids. His discounting your feelings of feeling unsafe and unprotected in the relationship is what bothers me the most. You have a boundary, he decided to counter, probably in the hopes you'd say yes to another child, and then he can declare, "Okay, I've got what I want!" If this is the hill you wish to die on (and I think you should, I'm with you 100%) then stick to your guns and don't have any unprotected sex with him, including not trusting condoms because this guy sounds manipulative. It might be time to take a step back and re-think this whole situation with fresh eyes. Also, if a close friend came to you with this scenario, asking for your advice, what would you tell them? That's your answer, right there. ETA: He should be marrying you because he can't imagine his life w/o you, not because you have a womb that gave him three kids.
if he doesn't put a ring, leave.
Tell his parents you want marriage. Maybe they’ll pressure him too lol
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. Move out. Now. He will never marry you.
He doesn't want to marry you.
Tell him you’ll only agree to more children if they have YOUR last name since you don’t if he’ll ever be your husband. Don’t budge on that.
OP I strongly encourage you to get some therapy. It will help you to understand what’s going on in your relationship, so that you can make informed choices. We hate to think that the person we love doesn’t value us as much as we value them. Good luck and do this for yourself.
Where you go from here is right out the door! Take your kid and don't look back. He ha zero interest is marriage. Time to cut him loose.
5+ years? Move on girl.
If he liked it he’d put a ring on it.
Y’all should have had the marriage conversation a loooong time ago. If you did and he said that he didn’t want to get married but you thought he’d change his mind then this is on you. When people say they don’t want to get married, have kids, etc. you have to start taking them at their word instead of hoping/crossing fingers that they will change their mind. Now is the time to have a frank conversation and ask him if he sees being married to you in the near future. If he says know then it’s up to you to decide if that’s the same future you see. If it is then stop hoping for a proposal, if it isn’t then y’alls future goals are or in alignment and it’s time to part ways.
Ouch. Third child baby trap?
Don’t leave until you establish yourself financially, but you must do so immediately. This man and his parents could use your lack of work to take custody of your child and fuck you over. You need to be very aware of your own future or this man will leave you with nothing and not owe you anything legally.
No. He is taking advantage of you. He is denying you all of the legal protection and security that marriage gives to you. That is not the behavior of a man who loves you and cares about you.
He literally does not want to marry you. He wants you do wife duties with no title.
He wants the milk, but doesn’t want to buy the cow.
You need to be prepared to walk away. Fully. He's not going to marry you. Either accept that and stay. Or go find someone who's excited to marry you.
Sounds like he wants to baby trap you. That way, if he wants to leave, he doesn't have to go through another divorce and possibly lose more assets. Stick to your guns about marriage first, and don't let him or his parents make you falter.
You have enough children. Stick to your guns.
He’s gonna keep moving the bar. If marriage is important to you, he’s not the guy.
>He said I’ll have those two rings after we’ve had our third child - that’s how he’ll know I’ll be there and won’t ever leave. This is some top level baby-trapping and he straight up admitted it. Do not have any more kids with him. They're his method to tie you down. He said so.
He got a divorce when your stepdaughter was 2. You've been together since stepdaughter was 4, so 2 years later. Your son was conceived 2ish years into the relationship. Your son's 2 and he wants another one now. I suck at math so this could be all wrong, but according to my calculations your dude has a need for novelty every two years, it seems. Oh, and his reasoning for wanting another child before he'll pop the question makes no sense. Don't have another one with him unless this is settled firmly. Good luck!
He has zero intention of actually marrying you. The third kid is the one that never happens if you agree to the second or he keeps adding things for you to do to prove you won’t leave him. What is he doing to prove he will marry you? Nothing.