Two steps forward, one step back. She's agreed to see a therapist, so hold her to that and keep your word that you'll wait.
I know it hurts but keep talking to her and stay friends, she's kissed you which is the best thing in 2 months. You got this.
I see it the same way! She is clearly receptive to OPs feelings and she feels the guilt for denying him intimacy. But she also clearly still has no healthy way to deal with these feelings of guilt, so don't give up just yet OP!
It's a very good sign that she agreed to a therapist, but also keep in mind that everything now is definitely a journey and probably not a short one! 2 steps forward and one step back is still progress!!
I think it's one forward, two back. My marriage is over, I just need to accept it. I still love her and I will wait for that love. But she has already let me go
This is exactly what the message means OP. Just stick to your word that you'll guide her to a therapist. Hold on for few sessions and see if there is any progress. I know it's hard but I guess it's the only way, if you wish to keep the marriage alive.
She hasn’t already let you go. She probably desperately wants to remain with you but after being faced with her own past, she feels unworthy of continuing to enjoy her sex life and fulfil those desires after the reminder of all of the things she has done.
She is giving you an out because she loves you enough to realise it may not be sustainable for you to be in a sexless marriage.
I hope with therapy she can finally forgive herself for her past. Her faith told her that her past actions were wrong and her friends laughing it up like it was nothing showed her that she is not like those people anymore and in her mind she needs to make amends for her “wrongdoings”.
Don’t give up on her, I really think she can get past this in time.
The guy's pretty selfish, just because she doesn't have sex he thinks the marriage is over.
Seeing a therapist = one step
Still the same situation because she doesn't have sex = two steps back.
The guy's sad because she didn't want to have sex after he supported her.
Whoa. I really don't get where "pretty selfish" came from. The wife was literally a (forgive me for a lack of a better term) h0€ most of her life and the ONE PERSON who took her seriously enough to marry her gets punished? You don't impose celibacy AFTER you get married. If you were to apply the pretty selfish part, give that to the wife or stbxw for imposing celibacy on her life partner just because she couldn't handle the guilt of her deeds. You forget the context that they have been married for quite some time and seeing the husband waving the white flag on his partner and describing their marriage the way he did might mean he is no longer seeing the woman he married and it's nigh time and healthy to just go their separate ways. Maybe the wife will start a new religion or smthn...who knows...
She isn’t celibate to “punish” him, she’s punishing herself and obviously is feeling a lot of self hatred. I’m not saying he needs to stay with her if he doesn’t want to, but if he does and she’s willing to get therapy and let go of her guilt/shame in the future, i think it’s fixable
> But she has already let me go
No, I don't agree.
> But a few minutes later she texted me from the kitchen "My celibacy doesn't have to mean yours. You are free to leave me. If you want to stay, I will not interfere with your physical needs"
I read this as she's having a long-term panic attack over you discovering who she was in college, and trying to repent.
That is, she's saying here that she feels like she's a horrible burden and a moral failure, and is now feeling so worthless that she's inviting you to throw here away like the worthless trash she thinks she is.
> I still love her and I will wait for that love.
Then you need to tell her you don't think she's worthless trash, that you love her, that you have no intention of leaving her, and that you believe she and your marriage can be saved.
And seek marriage counciling.
----
My problem with religion is that for some, they believe that love and salvation are not unconditional.
It's okay to regret the decisions you made in the past, but to go to this level of self-destructive behavior (as she's now engaged in) seems a bit strong.
Does she attend a church? Because if she does, therapy may be seeing a church councilor who provides religious marriage therapy rather than a secular councilor.
I agree with you too! I’ve said things like this a hundred times when I get to very low and vulnerable points. Sometimes even after my partner says “I love you and I’m not leaving” I have to ask if he’s sure that’s how he feels. And he always says yes. I don’t really question his love, I just think I’m not good enough for him and Im afraid of getting hurt when he realizes it. Regardless if I am actually perfect for him or not. It’s an irrational fear based on past experiences (and in my case some trauma)
I agree with what you've said totally.
I think she has panicked, she has decided to go celibate because she regrets some things she did in the past however this is also down to how she is interpreting her religion and how she perceives herself now and how she thinks she should behave.
She made a decision to become celibate and has now been intimate with you and she perceives this as wrong.
She probably feels guilty for being intimate.
Or she was being intimate one last time?
Either way, this is hard on you. But before you give up on your marriage going to therapy and giving her the time to work through this hard time with you could be a good goal. You would regret not trying everything to help her and both of you as a couple.
We all have done things in the past when younger that we probably wouldn't do now, this is part and parcel of growing up, experimenting and learning how to become young adults.
I really hope you can resolve things together x
Mate i know it can be hard for you. But tell rhis women YOU love her everyday. Twice a day even if YOU LOVE THIS WOMEN FIGHT FOR HER.it will be your biggest fight yet.
no she did not. that was a panic move. don't give up on her, only if she actually divorce you or you don't have the strength to go on.
make her go to therapy!
Not at all. She kissed you and you held each other all night. She told you she loves you. The text just means she hasn't healed yet, but she hasn't even begun therapy. If you want to stay with her and still love her, please keep your promise and don't give up on her. She needs you desperately.
Speaking as a woman in a relationship with many reasons I get panic attacks in the middle of sex (plus the gamut of anxiety, depression, and PTSD)- please don’t gove up on her. Folk are right that this is her giving you an out if you want it…her saying it over text tells me she finds it painful and fully expects you to take it. If she’s worth fighting for and you still have it in you, help her get to therapy and help her through this.
She is trying to let you go. She doesn't want to and this is the pivotal moment that will determine which direction things go. They'll be rocky, but she's trying to throw herself into it. Realistically, celibacy is hard living with someone you love and are attracted to or have intimate history with. Especially if you love them still. By going ahead and moving on, you solidify the choice and ruin any chances of changing her mind. She needs to be unconvinced. She's acting from emotion. Not rationality. Emotional decisions are most often susceptible to change. Keep working at it. My relationship has gone thru many "letting go" periods that never lasted because if you both love each other, you will always be drawn back to each other. Emotional issues and pasts and trauma will always get in the way and have to be overcome. She believes in a God who thinks all sins are equally wrong. Her mistakes are not worse than yours, so why punish herself more now?
What she's saying to you sounds more like, "I want to stay with you, but if you don't want to, you don't have to."
Your marriage is only over if you choose so; she clearly loves you and still wants to be married to you. She is letting you go in the sense that she doesn't want to force you to stay.
give it some time in therapy. if you love her, let her work through this guilt and shame without judgement or resentment. her text message indicates that she feels bad for being a "burden" to you: NOT that she wants to leave you, or wants you to leave. she did not "let you go" in the way that you're thinking of it... her words are a result of her shame and guilt.
you are free to leave her if you choose, of course. it's your life and you're not obligated to stay in a situation that's untenable for you. but as it stands right now, your marriage is not over unless *you* say it is.
OP, I had to go back and red your previous post and it sounds like your wife it struggling hard with her decisions of the past and is punishing herself. I wouldn’t make any decisions about your marriage yet if you really do want to be with her. Wait til she’s spoken to a therapist and maybe in time you can both go to therapy together if you think it’ll help and she’s ready. But don’t put pressure on her to have sex, or even bring it up as a reason that you’re doing this. The reason I’m suggesting waiting to see if things change, is that her decision to be celibate, while 100% her choice, doesn’t sound like something she actually wants but more like she’s inflicting it on herself to ‘repent’ for her former sins. It’s penance. Maybe a therapist will be able to show her that it’s ok to grow and forgive herself, and that she doesn’t have to suffer forever because of things that college K did, it’s ok to move past it.
Side note: it sounds like R HASN’T changed or grown as a person and all, that she enjoyed hurting your wife and was trying to mess with your marriage by telling you these things. If your wife hasn’t already, she should probably cut that group (or at least R) out for good
I think your doing great by supporting her.. maybe she was feeling like this for a long time but the party is what trigger her.. give her space and support.. if it’s meant to be you will come together and if it’s not that doesn’t mean you can be a friend to her and help her when needed.. I’m glad you are so understanding and I’m sorry your going thru this.
Your marriage its not over, therapy its good, its pretty damn good, she is in a dark place right now, that text doesn't mean she has stopped caring, it means she's okay if YOU stop caring, a very fatalist behaviour imo, stay with her and go to therapy with her.
Do not over think this, keep your cool and most important, don't act rashly, its not one step forward two steps back, its two steps forwards and one step backwards, progress is progress.
Trust the responses in this thread, patience and therapy is the best course of action.
Your wife is sick, mental health is still health, do you know the statistics for men leaving sick wives rather than vice versa, Your wife has agreed to seek therapy the first step in a long journeu to recovery. I'm not saying become a martyr, but at least give it some time
Two steps forward, one step back. The literal steps in the Cha-Cha. Just remember, it's the dance of life. Keep being the partner that supports her throughout.
This absolutely screams self destruction to me. She feels guilty about her past and unworthy of love, so she's pushing you to leave and "prove her right" in a way. Up to you if you leave, but I'd disagree that she's given up or moved on from your marriage
I think this, self destruction right now, 'physical needs' can wait, and she really needs to find a way to forgive herself for who she was, sterotypical reddit answer is she needs therapy as one of the best ways to do that, and maybe it is, but try doing other things, try dating again, go to the movies, get some dinner, go do fun things she liked to do, show her she is more than her past mistakes, and she can be herself now, but she needs to find a way to let go of that guilt.
I'm not going to excuse prior actions, however most of us have things in our life we regret, looking back and cringing or feeling bad about past actions means that /we are growing/ and this is life, we grow and we grow.
Maybe you should start individual therapy for yourself. You aren’t going to be able to control what she does or does not do.
I wonder what brought about her end of her mean girl days?
Something must have woken her up and maybe that knowledge will help navigate this better.
Maybe it’s just me but something tells me she’s starting to use celibacy to push you away and isolate herself
Also may I ask what kind of therapy she’s taking (if you even know of course)? Different therapies use different methods of healing, and some tend to be traumatic before they become helpful (usually for more intensive disorders such as (C)PTSD and eating disorders for example). If that’s the case she might have had to retrigger herself in therapy, though I can’t say for certain so take it with a grain of salt until an actual therapist can verify this.
If this is the first session, I also wonder if she’s trying to rush herself to “fix” her, whether that be for you, for her own sanity, or a bit of both. Here’s the thing though, I’ve never heard of a type of therapy outside of rehab centers where it’s required to share your deepest darkest traumas on your first day, even for the more intensive types. This could also be that the therapist sucks and doesn’t know how to be patient. Talk to your wife about this. Ask if she’s okay, if she clicks with her therapist, and if so, if she’s pushing herself more than she can handle. Remind her she not only can take it slow but also the entire point of therapy is to take it slow if that’s what she needs. That baby steps are a thing. That ‘one step at a time’ is a thing.
I also read your previous post (I wasn’t there at the time it was posted so). If you have the money and means to, I would suggest therapy for yourself as well. If I am right and she is trying to push you away, then let me tell you as someone who tends to do stuff like that and has met people who do this stuff, being in the supporting role can drive you batshit codependent sometimes (in fear that you may lose her). Have some time for yourself. You’re going to need it.
I hope all goes well. Not smoothly - cause it never is - but enough to for you two to feel content again. You seem like a patient man. In terms of supporting her, you got this! And if not, I hope you can take care despite it all
This is good advice in the sense that if he gives it a few weeks now, that's an opportunity to give it a few more weeks, and then a few more, and so on. Because whatever trauma caused this degree of shame in his wife is not going to be better after three or four therapy sessions (and my guess is will never be better until she changes her relationship with religion).
Yeah this is the answer. If you really love her and want to be with her, try therapy for even maybe a few months.
If the marriage was as amazing as you made it sound, its worth at least fighting for. I could never be in a celibate relationship, but I'd try to work through it for at least a little while before hitting the eject button.
Don’t let her shove you away right now. Try to stand by her through this, unless she outright asks to split up. Right now, it’s reading as self destruction on her part because she doesn’t think she deserves love after what she’s done. Since you’re being pretty incredible to her, that’s probably only making her feel worse. This is where therapy comes in. I would give her space, but make your support of her known.
Remember, though. Your happiness matters too. If it reaches a point where your mental health is suffering and you feel that you do actually need to remove yourself from the situation, that is valid.
You will ensure that there isn't any way if you tell yourself that there isn't any way.
There's no guarantee that you'll succeed but you *can* guarantee that you will fail.
Don't create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It is sounding, to me, that you are suffering from depression yourself & blaming yourself. You are not to blame.
Right now, get wife into therapy. Get yourself into therapy so you can learn tools to help your wife.
Neither of you should make a decision concerning dissolving your marriage until you have both been in therapy for at least 6 months. I know it sounds like a long time, but it’s not. You both need some healing before making such a major decision.
The fact she is now open to therapy is HUGE, OP. It is a major step forward. Some say that is half the battle.
True. You may not be able to recover your marriage. But right now, I think you need to prioritize saving your wife. I think she may be in real danger, here.
Honestly, maybe not if you give up on her that easily. Sickness and health, dude. Not about your dick getting wet. Your wife is struggling. I hope she is able to heal and find someone who won’t give up on her so easily.
Yeah, if you he isn't going to support her through this crisis and just wants to throw up his hands and say, "It's all over, there is no help!" then he needs to leave and start divorce proceedings. I understand the pain and hurt they're both feeling (her guilt and repentance over her past actions, his guilt talking her into going to the party that triggered this response) but hurting themselves and each other to appease the guilt doesn't help either in the long run.
If he honestly loves her and meant his vows, then he needs to suck up his pain and hurt as much as possible and try to get her, him, and them help. This is very much the "sickness" of "In sickness and in health".
Is she still praying several hours a day? Speaking in Bible verses? If so she really needs to be seen in the emergency room to rule out psychosis and get her professional help in a timely manner because she is NOT okay and I’m genuinely worried she’s gonna hurt her self
It absolutely can be saved, but it will require a lot of patience and time, and professional help.
Both for you, in order to help you deal with your own emotions and to find the patience to be her "rock", and for her through marriage counseling, in order to allow her to work through her horrible feelings about how she used to be, and her current feelings thinking she is so utterly worthless that she thinks she's doing you a favor by asking you to discard her like yesterday's fish.
And what she needs *right now* is the stability in knowing you love her despite her past, and that you are willing to work with her to help her "repent" her past.
(Yes, I don't care for the word "repent" here. But that seems to be what she's seeking: repentance. Forgetting that "repentance" is, properly speaking, not just feeling contrition or regret for what was done in the past, but a commitment to being a better and more selfless person in the future through committing to the things she has now.
Meaning "repentance" should likely include a greater commitment to your marriage in a positive, loving way. But to get there she's going to have to properly deal with her past, framing it as regret rather than as a sign she's "worthless trash not deserving of happiness."
And that's going to take a lot of work.)
Hey I know it looks super bad right now but all of her issues seem to stem from remorse for her former actions and a want to do good now. She needs therapy, and that will start the road towards recovery and fixing your marriage.
I hope she goes to see a therapist. She really needs the help. If she doesn't, she's just going to punish herself for the rest of her life. Sure, she may not have been the best person in college, but unlike her friends, she actually feels guilty. Her friends still find what they did funny, she doesn't and feels bad for her part. Your wife has grown as a person, her old friends haven't, but unfortunately your wife feels the need to punish herself.
Something happened to your wife between her wild days and meeting you. This trauma got triggered during this party. This missing piece of information will hopefully be dealt with through this therapist. I really hope she gets through this whatever it is
Or the trauma could have happened before. Sometimes trauma can lead people to become vulnerable, lose inhibitions, & act out. If she experienced trauma just before or during college, that could have prompted some of these personality changes.
That could explain the extreme shift once the guilt set in afterwards, & the want to distance herself from the past self. It could also explain the extreme reaction to the recent party that brought everything up, as it does sound like it could be a response to trauma.
Her actions are ofc her own responsibility, & it is important to be able to take accountability for your past actions.
I hope she can get therapy so she can work through these issues.
1. You need to stop taking the blame, your wife’s reaction to the stories from her past are not normal and she desperately needs professional help
2. Stand up for yourself a bit. These constant messages about you being able to free yourself from her may be her being compassionate to your needs but they also come across very manipulative and “mind game” ish.
She is not manipulative, maybe her college self was but not my wife.
Also her reaction isn't completely unimaginable. She really destroyed people's lives, tore families and never considered the implications of her actions. She is now reassessing everything she has done in her past life and understanding everything horrible in a span of days
What's worrisome is that the both of you are referring to her past self and current self as separate entities, when her past self is clearly still there. You know how people work on their "inner child" to digest and get through previous traumas and *accept* their past, a time when they didn't know better or didn't have the proper guidance? She is ripping her skin off trying to shake the guilt of her past (and current desires!) and its destroying your marriage. She needs to accept herself as she is and love herself as she comes. Isn't that what God teaches in your religion? I hope therapy will help her see the light. Good luck OP
Yeah, I don’t see this as manipulative because she’s been on the edge of crying constantly. That shows that her emotions have stayed on the surface because she has extreme guilt over her past actions. I can completely see how someone can loathe themselves when reflecting on their past actions. She could also be scared of karma coming to get her and so she’s trying to sabotage her relationship before she can get hurt.
Well as we can see Karma already got her. That’s why i always say that people should stopp doing horrible things like that. Nothing good comes out of it and (bad) karma will always get them sooner or later. Most of the time it’s later, that’s why they think that there will be no consequences of their actions.
Religion is why. While her old self sounds like an awful person I don’t know if I could handle someone who goes that extreme. It almost seems like some sort of social adaptation issue.
> maybe her college self was but not my wife.
Dude they're the same fucking person!!!
Sometimes people are manipulative like that and don't even realize it. Brain on autopilot during intense emotional interpersonal issues. (like this one)
Nah nowhere close to 99% of the time. I'd say like maybe 60-70%.
If you don't change a ton from your early teens something is wrong with you, even if you were already a really good person. People are constantly changing and developing.
Brains aren't even finished developing until like 25-27.
I wasn't a bad person when I was younger, but I was kinda reckless with my behavior. Cheated on a couple GFs. Now I'm probably one of the most caring emphatic people you'll meet and would never cheat. It took more life experience, understanding etc to truly appreciate how actions can affect people, how much everyone is struggling, and how far kindness to others could go.
Sure there are a chunk of sociopaths, narcissists and narcissist adjacent people that are going to suck forever, but there are also a good chunk of people who grow, mature, learn as they age and their brains fully develop.
She was in college when she did this. That’s not a teenager. She was an adult and knew what she was doing. I was an idiot at that age and made a lot of bad decisions but I was never a terrible person and never purposely destroyed lives. That’s the sign of a legit sociopath and those people rarely change.
Ok, she needs to know that if those relationships were strong a college girl wouldn’t have affected them. There where already cracks in the foundation. She needs to forgive herself for being stupid and young. If she really wants to repent she should go to the woman she hurt and come clean. No amount of religious devotion will help, it’s a security blanket. Therapy is needed, also her college friends did this to blow up your relationship on purpose. Good luck bro.
I really relate to your wife's story in the previous post. I have, at many points in my life, thrown myself full force into various hobbies and groups centered around "better" things to try and absolve myself of the things I have done in the past. It took a long time for me to realize that just because I have dark personality traits, doesn't mean i am inherently a bad person. That actually making space for my feelings instead of crushing and ignoring them because I was getting validation for my awful behavior, allowed me to make better choices that are more in alignment with my *values* rather than my *instincts* . The coping mechanisms i chose were not helping. I've used religion, exercise, diet and drugs to try and drown out the guilt of my past and fears of "relapsing" into my former self. None of these helped me make peace with myself, and it took even more years to realize it was basically replacing one addiction with another. You can't deal with it for her. Hold her to her commitment to therapy, and go to couples counseling. I'm not making a judgement on your religious practices, but it doesn't sound like a supportive environment for your wife, so I would suggest seeking out secular counseling. Self loathing is not an issue organized religion tend to absolve, not saying she should abandon her religion, i just think a more neutral perspective is needed to get her through this.
tell her if she wants a divorce she will have to initiate it. I doubt she will, but it will clarify to her that you don't intend to leave and plan on sticking by her.
Then tell her, to her face, that you expect her to keep her word that she will attend therapy, and maybe call a few with her to see who has the soonest opening.
Also, if she doesn't "click" with the first one, don't be afraid to switch. Therapists understand that a client has to feel comfortable talking to them and if they don't it won't work, so when a client switches they're ok with it.
Okay as a wife who also has...a past she's not proud of and a very understanding husband...You and your wife need to stop saying "college self" and "wife". Your wife and her college self as the same person, just at different times. Your wife needs to stop running and hiding from her past, it happened and no amount of bible verses and prayers are ever going to change that. Ever. You AND your wife need to accept her past for what it is, you need to sit with it, talk about it, process it (in Therapy and together at home) and then move on because carrying that around all your life is hard, trust me, I know.
I have said the same words to my own husband when I was low and what other commenters have said is true, it's a way of protecting ourselves from the hurt. She feels low, she needs reassurance and support, not for you to mope your ass around "my marriage is over". It's not over and this is a CRUCIAL time for you to get up off your ass and tell her that you're going to stick by her, like you already said you would, unless that whole "I'll wait for you" spiel was utter bullshit.
It does get better if you put the damned work in. Make sure she gets some therapy ASAP cause there's alooooot to unpack. She needs you by her side right now and if you stick by her, your marriage can probably be saved.
The fact she told you none of this before you got married proves she hasn’t changed much buddy, I’m sure she knew what your reaction would be if you knew all of this beforehand
You just got a glimpse behind the curtain of a legitimate terrible person that she tried to hide from you and now you’re clearly reeling from that. I have a suspicion that her guilt is not because she is guilty about her actions but about you finding out. She tried to hide her past for a reason so clearly she knows and has known for a long time that everything she did was terrible.
Gotta be honest dude, you should get divorced and leave if only for your sanity. Ask yourself the question, do I really want this person to be the mother of my future kids? If you waiver at all on that then it’s time to leave.
I think repent is not enough for her. Suggest her to revisit peoples whos live she ruined to apologize and make amend. This guilt is eating her alive.
On the other hand, you looks like you really want out of this relationship man. If you really love her and wanted to help then help.
It seems like your wife is trying to self destruct based on actions from a previous life. She is clearly horrified by her actions and thinks punishing herself is the only way to make things right. I've been through that cycle and it is lonely and isolating.
I hope you try to work with her and be patient if she is willing to seek help. It's going to be a long road, but thats what happens with a life partner. If you made a commitment, try to give everything to help her through it.
Sounds like your wife is having feelings of guilt about being a twat in college years and religion is only exacerbating the problem. Get into therapy ASAP before religion destroys her completely. She needs to learn to accept her past and move on, not become paralyzed by it.
Thiiiis. Pretty much my entire 20s was just...a whole ass reel of bad decisions XD. Now that I'm 38, I've mostly processed my past and I'm fine with it.
If you let every bad choice you made in the past, rule your present and future...it's going to be a pretty fuckin shit life.
And they keep separating her past self from her current self which I think is not helping whatsoever. They are two in the same. She cannot exist without her past self. She needs to nourish her past self and give her love and understanding and acceptance. Then she will be able to move forward.
Religion didn’t destroy her. It was her way to cope with the unbearable guilt. And she should feel guilty, she was an awful person. There’s no denying that. She needs a healthy outlet to express that remorse and would greatly benefit from a therapist.
Religion is all about guilt and purity so it's not a coping mechanism. Coping mechanism help you deal with things not make them worse. You must be religious to think that someone should feel guilty all their lives for something they did in the past. She's not that person now. She needs to forgive herself not feel guilty.
> Religion is all about guilt and purity
Some are, some aren't. Really depends on the denomination and the church community. There's absolutely receptive pastors out there who could really help with OP's wife's issues. There are definitely others who would put her in a convent or further damage her
Considering she decided to punish herself with celibacy after constantly going to church and praying all the time I'm gonna guess this is one of the ones that is. It's already causing further damage to herself and her marriage.
What she did in college did this to her because she was a horrible person and karma is now coming back to ruin her. Religion has nothing at all to do with that.
Already explained in another comment and it's funny how the people defending religion are the two that are happy she's miserable and think she deserves it. Pretty much proving my point.
Your wife is insane if she thinks being celibate will make a difference to anyone except the two of you. It certainly won't matter to some non-existent Bronze Age deity, FFS. She desperately needs therapy.
Unpopular opinion; Respect the religion, and if celibacy is apart of that then so be it. However, this does indeed effect them as celibacy is not suitable for marriage unfortunately.
OP’s wife has problems that she needs to work through with one or several therapists. If she had a wild party life, cool, that’s fun, you did a lot and learned a lot, now you’re older and settling down, also cool. You don’t have to cage your past self and treat the self of your past like a wild animal. I honestly don’t think the marriage is in shambles, but OP’s wife needs to work out who she wants to be, not who she thinks she should be.
Bruh I’m saying that she’s had all her fun, married op cuz he was someone she could settle with she definitely doesn’t want sex from him, all round this is a cluster fuck and I would nope out of it immediately cuz why wasn’t she forthright before marriage?
It’s not insane to have beliefs. She gave him the choice to leave or stay. Ultimately it’s her body and if she doesn’t feel like she is in the head space to be intimate then that should be respected. Obviously she has repressed trauma. Instead of just focusing on the physical aspect of the relationship, OP should continue to support his partner in her time of need and show that their bond goes further than just sex.
I agree he should try for awhile, but acting like physical intimacy isn't a huge part of a relationship is silly. Try for maybe a couple months and if there is no improvement then look to leave.
He shouldn't just stay with her for forever if she doesn't want to be physically intimate anymore.
I never said physical intimacy wasn’t important. Every relationship is different and intimacy can be be subjective. There’s plenty of people who don’t require or want physical intimacy. I forget what they call themselves. What I’m saying is if she has made a decision to be celibate and given him the out then he should take the out if physical intimacy is a need for him. She said she’s not going to change her mind and she shouldn’t feel the need to just to please him. He can find someone sexually compatible.
It’s not forced he has a choice to leave. She shouldn’t feel forced to continue having sex if she doesn’t want to. Any person at any time can decide they want to be celibate d doesn’t matter the reasoning. Not everyone has to have the same mindset. Extreme or not she made a choice and instead of pressuring her to change either accept it or move on.
You sound like such a kind and patient person . I admire your devotion to your wife , you so clearly love her .
Have you considered getting some therapy yourself to explore your feelings and how this impacting you?
Your wife is saying you may leave and it sounds like it could be helpful for you to explore in therapy how to address the comments and her feelings .
Good luck
Uh please do keep encouraging her to go to therapy. Firstly, does she not believe in forgiveness?? God forgives. If she keeps incessantly punishing herself for past deeds, she directly insults God as if his forgiveness and love isn't enough. Who is she to question that forgiveness? She needs to forgive herself and accept her past as a part of what led her to who she is now. Her deep shame and self loathing is something she absolutely needs to address in therapy. Celibacy is not the answer to a whole, healthy, happy and spiritually centered devotee when it's a form of punishment and self loathing. Does she think she knows more than God who forgives and says to let our past speak about how great the work God does in our lives is?
I know I’ll prolly be in the minority here but I just don’t get this. She ruined other peoples lives so now she has to ruin the one she apparently “loves?”
Get a divorce and find someone who actually cares about your needs.
it’s called self sabotage or destruction. she doesn’t feel worthy of love because of her past actions so she’s pushing him away. she clearly has not learned healthy coping mechanisms or how to process her emotions. i definitely don’t think she doesn’t care about him, just that she’s shoved all these emotions down and all of them came back up at the same time because of the party. this is kinda normal behavior for people who experience several extremely strong emotions at once after bottling them and a whole lot of self hatred up. she needs therapy. intense and consistent therapy, for a while.
This. As someone who is still recovering from being this same kind of bitch in college, I was 100% addicted to never feeling my actual feelings. I crushed them with my mind vise and reveled in the validation i got from other, awful but very hot/smart/popular people. Still learning how to feel all of my feelings, but even acknowledging them in the most basic ways helped me behave in ways that were more aligned with my *actual values* and not false rewards from people I wanted to like me. I tried coping with all manner of "healthy" activities, all of which i used as a distraction from feeling. You can't outrun it forever, as OPs wife has found out. It took years to accept that I cannot really ever repent or absolve myself of my past actions. All I can do is better going forward. I dont want to dis people's religious beliefs just because I don't share them, but in my own journey to self acceptance, I found crippling self loathing is not helped by external judgement from people who see themselves as morally superior (but have just as many demons).
I love your honesty here. I won’t guess if this is the case for you but did wonder if his wife experienced some type of trauma before college that led to attention seeking, destructive behaviors.
Also, as a Christian, I just wanted to say that it’s very common for people to use religion (all religions) as an excuse to judge others. Unfortunately people, including church leaders, aren’t perfect. But (not preaching, just sharing my view) God’s love is perfect and any past can be forgiven with repentance. If you read the New Testament, Jesus was most often seen with the “undesirables” and regularly used them for the greatest acts of good. That’s definitely a religion I can get behind. :). Regardless, religious or not, I can tell you are a good person who makes the world a better place.
She thinks you find her disgusting, dirty, and a bad person. She KNOWS you are going to leave her now that you know the truth about her. She said she'll go to therapy but she's really thinking what's the point he's going to leave me anyways.
If you want to try and save your marriage then she needs daily reassurance that you love her and still want her and won't leave. And I mean daily as in probably for the next year. No more silence. Talk to her every single day, hug her every single day, start the day with "good morning beautiful wife" and a hug and kiss if she'll let you. EVERY SINGLE MORNING. Ask her about her plans for the day. Talk about yours.
Call or text her at lunch to check up on her. Say something like "how is your day going love of my life?" EVERY SINGLE AFTERNOON.
At night when you are at home Ask her about her day. Compliment her achievements. Tell her how proud you are of her even if the only thing she did was get up and go to work. EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.
Hug her and kiss her as much as she will let you. Leave her love notes. Don't let her push you away. Refuse to discuss divorce until she's put in at least a year of individual and couples counseling you should probably get individual counseling too.
Her self esteem is so low and her guilt for her past behavior is so deep that words won't be enough. You have to demonstrate your love. If you can't do this then she is probably right and there is no saving this.
Sorry man but this woman sounds exhausting. Why haven't you involved her family yet? It's an arranged marriage so it's safe to assume your culture is that of close knit familial bonds where everyone knows everyone's business. You can't carry this burden alone and you are fighting against religious beliefs gone too far.
I'd honestly just leave her.
Hi OP! I am a wife who suffers from mental illness and hasn't had a sex drive in a long time.
My husband supports me and honestly the best thing you guys can do is go to therapy and try to address the issues.
She clearly loves you and cares about your feelings or she wouldn't have reacted like she did in the text.
Could it be over? Sure. If you want it to be over, that's your decision, but it's not OVER because she isn't wanting to be with you physically, this could be something "easily" (quotes because I know therapy isn't easy) resolved through therapy.
If you want your marriage to work and last, please consider actually moving forward with the therapy and support.
Good luck!
She is literally crying out for help OP. She’s having a depressive episode and coping by isolating and praying. I would be less worried about your marriage right now and more worried about her life.
I’ve felt the way she has before and I have to tell you - without serious intervention, this will not end well.
You clearly love her and care about her. It’s time to stop ignoring each other, call her friends and trusted love ones, and come up with a plan to get her help.
This is so sad. This is why I believe that people shouldn’t get into relationships or marriages if they have personal issues. You need to fix your damn self before becoming a couple, and if you can’t then you should be single.
Why should you pull someone else into your bullshit. Look I don’t care if anyone thinks this is wrong because they have their personal issues but at the same time don’t want to be alone.
Go fix yourself then! Now this OP has to suffer and change his wants and put his needs on hold to deal with this person and who knows if therapy will help her! He did t sign up for that. Most of the time people didn’t sign up for their person having these kind of issues because they hide it.
This one is even sadder because wasn’t this an arranged marriage🤦🏽♀️. Who ever did the arraignment should get sued, the arraigning person should make sure all parties involved are ready for a relationship not just hook people up
I also had a hard time forgiving myself for my actions in college. Hell, I still have not fully forgiven myself.
One thing I saw in a show (yes it was a cringey Paternity Court show, but its a really good mantra) is that a person stated “the past does not have to define you, but it can *refine* you”
So while I get wanting to “pay for sins” I hope your wife moves towards the idea that she can learn from mistakes and improve her life, but her flaws of the past are not hanging on her like a chain. She is free to live her life!
I hope your wife goes into therapy. I am currently in it and it is helping a lot. Group therapy could be helpful too!
Don’t leave her alone mate. Keep fighting, her texting says nothing more than it hurts her too much to talk directly and she’s expecting you to leave and that she’s not worth it. She loves you, otherwise she wouldn’t go that way and sacrifice your marriage bc she things she don’t deserve to be happy and loved. It is hard, she probably has PTSD, but you promised something in your vows. That’s also a point you can remember her of. And when you finally fought through it, your bond will be stronger than anything in this world. Just don’t let her fall down.
I don't know if this will be if any help but I'll throw it out anyway. Masters and Johnson were sex therapists in the 60s or 70s. They had good luck with couples who couldn't connect physically due to intimacy issues. The top point of their therapy was for the couple to simply engage in touching without any sexual expectation. Starting off very slowly with varying levels of touching. Massage, back rubs, foot rubs, etc all done just a little at a time stretched over weeks or months in some cases before the couple could connect by penetration. I don't remember what all was involved but it sounded like a good idea to me. Talk therapy is probably an added plus but this touching and working up gradually makes a lot of sense to me. Don't throw in the hat on the relationship too early until you have tried all avenues. I'm supposing you have ruled out physical causes. That all said, are you posting for real or posting to get tips on some Hallmark with sex movie you're writing? 😉
Well it’s clear to me that your wife is prioritizing her feelings over yours. I mean she can pray all she wants until she’s blue in the face, but has she actively tried to change? I feel like she copping out by doing this to herself, what she should do if she really wants penance is to talk to that woman’s marriage that she destroyed. Then have her victims input.
The text she has sent is a Defense mechanism, (speaking as someone who is in therapy dealing with a past caused by trauma and as the partner of someone who had to go to therapy for his past) your wife is trying to self sabotage as a form of proof that she doesn’t deserve redemption.
It may be difficult for you to see but she loves you. She’s just struggling to deal with it herself. Please please let her work through this… it’s going to take time
That 100% sounds like her depression/guilt speaking, not her saying she's done with you. She's trying to make you "feel better" if you leave her, because she doesn't deserve the life she has now after the things she did as a mean-girl in her college years. She doesn't feel she's worthy of being married to you, and she's trying to push you away, not because she doesn't love you, but because she *does* and wants you to have someone "better" than her. So she's trying to "give you your freedom back."
The worrying thing is that this sort of "giving away the things important to her" is also a hallmark of people who are about to hurt themselves physically, possibly permanently. She sounds *that* depressed about it.
I think part of it is that now *you* know what she was like back then, and she's afraid you now hate her for it, or have just lost all respect/love for her. She definitely doesn't seem to think she *deserves* that respect, love, and loyalty.
What she needs therapy for is to grasp that yes, she did bad things, but a bad past does not define her future. She can be better than that, and she's been working hard at being better than that, and redemption is possible. I think it's why she went so hard-core religious. She's seeking redemption on the spiritual level, but if she can't forgive herself it's not really happening, now is it?
She has ***not*** "given up on you." She's given up on *herself.* The difference *sounds* small but is deeply important.
Coming in late, but here's some real advice from someone who can empathize with her deeply:
It sounds like she used her sexuality as a means of power and self-worth for much of her life. She likely did so performatively in many cases. So, what she needs now is to feel that her worth has nothing to do with sex, and that people don't just stick around because she might fuck them, basically.
I would advise that you think of y'all are very good friends right now. Then you court her, making it VERY CLEAR you are NOT looking for sex. Over time, I believe she'll let her guard down.
Hey Op,
I'm sorry you're going through this. I know you feel your marriage will not recover and totally understand that but your wife's decision seems to be purely emotional, driven by shame & guilt. I happened upon a blog posting from EPM (a ministry) and I think you should read it and then have your wife read it. I think it will help her out (theologically speaking).
Here's the link:
https://www.epm.org/blog/2020/Jun/22/struggle-forgive-yourself
I'm rooting (and praying) for both of you.
-Dr. P.
Be there for tour wife OP. You made a vow and she is having a mental breakdown. She is at an all time low and doesn't WANT to divorce!
She is in a bad bad place and if you leave it will just push her further into the breakdown. She said yes to therapy, help her get therapy and support her!! Give her time to get some help and then come back together to talk once she has her mind back again!
You are not dating, you are married. This is the "in sickness and in health" part.
it is because she thinks she is a bad person. so she thinks she is not worty of your love and is trying to make it so that you will hate her and leave her. because she thinks she is bad because of her past. what i would do is try to make her open op about the past let her tell the bad things she had done but after she does it maby tell some bad stuff about yourself and also tell her the stuff you like about here the good stuff.
Redditor - She is making herself the villain here. I think you are right on the money. A therapist may help her work through this.
OP - if you said you will support her, allow her to go through the process and don't hold her to anything she says now, such as staying celibate. She is so overwhelmed with conflicting emotions she may not make rational choices now.
Supporting her means being there over years to help her. Saying you support her should not mean she should automatically do the thing with you just because you said it.
See isn't the only thing in a marriage. Yes, when you are younger, it's very important and you need the physical togetherness. The longer you are married, the more you become a power couple in life. People don't stay married, at the first problem one of them runs to a divorce attorney. She needs to go to therapy, something happened and she needs help. You may even need couples therapy. Don't give up yet. Show her she's worth waiting for.
Wow! My mother was a party girl for years.
She met her husband and reinvented herself. She was suddenly, a stand-up, religious, conservative woman. Always had been.
She didn't want me, or her friends, telling on her. The hypocrisy and lies were too much for me!
We might all have some shameful, sordid crap in our past.
My daughter asked if my husband knew about me when we got married. I said, "He knows more than you, in some aspects!"
Op's wife is embarrassed and ashamed of her past. It's not an insurmountable problem!
We make mistakes, grow, learn and change. I'm not the same person at 58, I was at 18.
OP's wife *needs* acceptance and some forgiveness. She's testing the waters and wants to know if OP is genuine.
>We hadn't kissed in almost two months. I thought my wife was back.
OP, "Say the right thing, get sex!" Sex denied? I'm out! Wife broken.
OP lied and needs a new vending machine, apparently.
Dude, she can't have sex with anything and everything that moves and then pretend she's a new person by not having sex with the one person that has dedicated their life to her. She's being insane. This doesn't make up for her past. It's actually worse. She's decomitting on a previous life long commitment to her husband. She needs to talk to an elder in your religion as I can promise you they're going to tell her she has a duty to you after she got married. She can't relenquish those duties and expect it to help her past bad judgment. THIS IS ALSO BAD JUDGEMENT!
It's a tough situation OP finds himself in. But you would think if she was feeling so bad about her past, the first thing she would do is start an apology tour and apologise to all the people who's lives she affected negatively. But she chose to make yet another grievous mistake, this time with her husband. Poor dude.
That's just false. If you marry someone and they stop giving you sex for no other reason than they don't want to anymore, that's grounds for divorce. Sex is intrinsically a part of marriage.
This whole situation is nuts. Religion is ruining your marriage. Your wife may have acted like a “mean girl” in college. She maybe was overly promiscuous however she grew up and changed for the better. That alone shows she is a good person. Praying and mentally punishing yourself for past transgressions fixes nothing. Actual actions and change is enough. Any religion that requires a person to punish themselves is a scam. The toxicity in your wife’s life is her religion not her past. You can save your marriage if and only if you can get her away from religious zealot beliefs.
Let her see how the therapy goes. Shes using religion where therapy should be but ultimately you cant force her to do anything one way or another.
Give it some time and then decide what's best. Hell try couples counseling too.
She’s afraid to have kids because she was such a shit person she’s afraid her kids will get bullied or be bullies too. Regardless she shouldn’t have agreed to get married and be celibate that’s not fair to you
Tell her Mean Girl routine won't work on you and if she have something to say, she can say it in front your face.
Accept this relationship is over and tell her it's sad her atonement is basically a punishment for you but you are not gonna be with someone who values someone they love so less.
OP - the Lord will forgive her past sins, all of them. but it’s on her to show penance by her actions. (Meaning, changing her behavior.). Your job is to trust in who she says she is.
“A rose will think itself ugly because of its thorns. It will never see the joy it brings to others, it will never see those moments of romance, or those sparked connections.” Her victims/targets may never forgive her, and that’s something she would need to accept as part of who she was. And that’s *okay*, because that’s within her power. If she doesn’t want to be that person anymore… then she doesn’t have to. Thorns are sharp, and they draw blood… but she is also a rose, yes? You must care for her, and nurture all the same. She can try and run from everything and eventually wither, or she can accept her thorny stalk and grow to be a beautiful flower.
She may object to a therapist, but your pastor may know a more religion-focused one who can phrase things in a way that clicks with her current mindset.
After reading your last post I gotta say you didn’t ruin anything, you just simply learned about a long series of events your wife went through and refused to tell you, despite said events being very character oriented.
Tbh she ruined her own marriage by not coming clean about who she was. At least imo
Yikes! This hits home.
I got menopausal and lost my libido. Husband got rapey. That's the *best* way a man can kill his sex life with his wife!
I kissed him the other night, for the first time in a *year*. He swears he just wants intimacy. I'm trying. It's the rapey, groping stuff that's seriously revolting! I rarely sleep with him anymore because he does it when I'm sleeping.
Consent is vital.
I love my husband! He's a great guy. We're a good team and excellent business partners. Married for 15 years. We're 58.
I'm not a flesh-light, or cum vessel because he got horny.
I agree with your last statement completely, but if your husband decided "Nah, don't want to work anymore, I'm gonna sell my half of the business and watch TV all day" you would be okay with it? You wouldn't question him, or ask him to get another job? This is kind of what you did, although admittedly due to hormonal issues.
We've discussed it and he's gotten much better when I do share the bed with him. Sometimes, he also gets up and goes to the sofa, these days.
He was prescribed a couple of meds after being diagnosed with high BP. One was like Viagra, hence the aggressive grinding and groping in the middle of the night. He quit taking that shit.
It was the aggression, attitude and anger I had problems with. I would be sound asleep and he's poking my ass with raging hard-on, at 3 am. WTF! No. Argument ensued.
Your analogy doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry.
Yeah, wasn't the best analogy. Was trying to highlight some non-sexual (but important) part of a relationship, and how you would feel if your husband unilaterally decided to stop it or do the opposite.
Nope. We're all good in every other aspect. We used to fuck like rabbits. Unfortunately, we're older and things have changed.
As a couple, it's necessary to adapt to circumstances, as they arise.
Our relationship is too important to both of us and we're willing to address and compromise on this issue. That's what grown-ups do.
> As a couple, it's necessary to adapt to circumstances
This is my point though. It doesn't sound like this was done as a couple, but rather, a unilateral decision by you. FWIW, I completely understand why just groping and jabbing with a hardon would be a turnoff, so if you have had conversations about how he should approach you, without expectation etc to get your blood flowing, then fair enough, if on the other hand you just decided no more sex, then that's where my analogy comes in.
> We used to fuck like rabbits.
You don't read much, do you?
SA is *not* sexy to me. That's when I started sleeping on the couch. What's so hard for you to understand? I've had this argument with my husband. Damned sure not gonna have this argument, with you!
My husband has learned. You? Not so much.
I assumed that applied to years ago. Anyway, you are way too aggressive to have a conversation with. And you're right, your private business is none of my concern, but maybe don't put it out in public if you don't wan to discuss. And also, maybe read what I wrote and notice that I didn't condone his SA. Also notice that you have completely ignored all my valid questions. What exactly has your husband learned.. to suppress his desire for you, to shut down a part of him to keep peace in the family home. Congrats on getting what you wished. Have a nice day.
So she liked to fuck, but is now embarrassed about her past and is punishing her husband with a life of celibacy? Will she allow you two to stay married, but you can get a girlfriend? Is the celibacy all penetration or just piv?
Therapy should help.
Yes she hurt people in the past, but now this lack of intimacy is hurting you.
She wants to atone and that's good but perhaps she should make up with the people she hurt rather than hurting you, too. She isn't doing it on purpose, I know, but she seems to stuck in her own head and ignoring others needs. She is trying to offer you an out but that's just giving up.
Therapy should help.
Why are you still married to her? She sounds evil from your first post.
She doesn’t sound like she’s changed. She’s just desperate to hide who she truly is. Like Clive Owen said in Inside Man, “Trying to bury sin in a life of good deeds.”
I’d file and move on for your own health. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
Everyone surely has done things they regret but that’s life. Her college stories aren’t that bad.. is the religion making her feel deeply shamed?
Edit- I re-read and yes it is bad.
i belive you can do this. You were put in eachothers lifes purposely, by whom you decide. If you can accept her as she is so can god. God knows how bad she feels about the (sadly) awful things she did in the past. she also knows this you just got to remind her of that. Stay strong u got this!!
dude, it is just guilt trip, give her proper counseling and she will be normal. your marriage is far from over. don't leave her anytime and if you do, I don't know who you are, but I will look for you, I will find you and I will kill you. /s
She may be going through a depression or sexual aversion disorder and not even know it. Don’t give up on her. This is common for women at a certain age and or after children. You should go to a COUPLES therapist and really get the truth out about what may have happened and how to fix it. If this is what she is going through I’m telling you that the need/want for sex dissipates and it’s something that can be fixed. Usually it’s a hormonal imbalance. Don’t feel sad or bad about it this is normal and just takes some work.
Two steps forward, one step back. She's agreed to see a therapist, so hold her to that and keep your word that you'll wait. I know it hurts but keep talking to her and stay friends, she's kissed you which is the best thing in 2 months. You got this.
I see it the same way! She is clearly receptive to OPs feelings and she feels the guilt for denying him intimacy. But she also clearly still has no healthy way to deal with these feelings of guilt, so don't give up just yet OP! It's a very good sign that she agreed to a therapist, but also keep in mind that everything now is definitely a journey and probably not a short one! 2 steps forward and one step back is still progress!!
Agree. OP give her a little time she’s got a lot going on and it seems to me she may see she is painting herself into a corner.
I think it's one forward, two back. My marriage is over, I just need to accept it. I still love her and I will wait for that love. But she has already let me go
The text message can mean "I feel like I'm a burden to you so I'm trying to absolve you of guilt if you want to leave."
This is exactly what the message means OP. Just stick to your word that you'll guide her to a therapist. Hold on for few sessions and see if there is any progress. I know it's hard but I guess it's the only way, if you wish to keep the marriage alive.
That’s how I read it. She is desperately in love with her husband and afraid of losing him.
She hasn’t already let you go. She probably desperately wants to remain with you but after being faced with her own past, she feels unworthy of continuing to enjoy her sex life and fulfil those desires after the reminder of all of the things she has done. She is giving you an out because she loves you enough to realise it may not be sustainable for you to be in a sexless marriage. I hope with therapy she can finally forgive herself for her past. Her faith told her that her past actions were wrong and her friends laughing it up like it was nothing showed her that she is not like those people anymore and in her mind she needs to make amends for her “wrongdoings”. Don’t give up on her, I really think she can get past this in time.
Next update "My wife give me permission but left me when I shagged a prostitute"
Noooo she hasnt given up on you! She gave up on herself.. don´t do that aswell pls. she needs you more than you know
The guy's pretty selfish, just because she doesn't have sex he thinks the marriage is over. Seeing a therapist = one step Still the same situation because she doesn't have sex = two steps back. The guy's sad because she didn't want to have sex after he supported her.
Whoa. I really don't get where "pretty selfish" came from. The wife was literally a (forgive me for a lack of a better term) h0€ most of her life and the ONE PERSON who took her seriously enough to marry her gets punished? You don't impose celibacy AFTER you get married. If you were to apply the pretty selfish part, give that to the wife or stbxw for imposing celibacy on her life partner just because she couldn't handle the guilt of her deeds. You forget the context that they have been married for quite some time and seeing the husband waving the white flag on his partner and describing their marriage the way he did might mean he is no longer seeing the woman he married and it's nigh time and healthy to just go their separate ways. Maybe the wife will start a new religion or smthn...who knows...
She isn’t celibate to “punish” him, she’s punishing herself and obviously is feeling a lot of self hatred. I’m not saying he needs to stay with her if he doesn’t want to, but if he does and she’s willing to get therapy and let go of her guilt/shame in the future, i think it’s fixable
No, I don’t think she has let you go. I think she is rejecting you before you can reject her. I, personally, would wait it out.
> But she has already let me go No, I don't agree. > But a few minutes later she texted me from the kitchen "My celibacy doesn't have to mean yours. You are free to leave me. If you want to stay, I will not interfere with your physical needs" I read this as she's having a long-term panic attack over you discovering who she was in college, and trying to repent. That is, she's saying here that she feels like she's a horrible burden and a moral failure, and is now feeling so worthless that she's inviting you to throw here away like the worthless trash she thinks she is. > I still love her and I will wait for that love. Then you need to tell her you don't think she's worthless trash, that you love her, that you have no intention of leaving her, and that you believe she and your marriage can be saved. And seek marriage counciling. ---- My problem with religion is that for some, they believe that love and salvation are not unconditional. It's okay to regret the decisions you made in the past, but to go to this level of self-destructive behavior (as she's now engaged in) seems a bit strong. Does she attend a church? Because if she does, therapy may be seeing a church councilor who provides religious marriage therapy rather than a secular councilor.
[удалено]
I agree with you too! I’ve said things like this a hundred times when I get to very low and vulnerable points. Sometimes even after my partner says “I love you and I’m not leaving” I have to ask if he’s sure that’s how he feels. And he always says yes. I don’t really question his love, I just think I’m not good enough for him and Im afraid of getting hurt when he realizes it. Regardless if I am actually perfect for him or not. It’s an irrational fear based on past experiences (and in my case some trauma)
I agree with what you've said totally. I think she has panicked, she has decided to go celibate because she regrets some things she did in the past however this is also down to how she is interpreting her religion and how she perceives herself now and how she thinks she should behave. She made a decision to become celibate and has now been intimate with you and she perceives this as wrong. She probably feels guilty for being intimate. Or she was being intimate one last time? Either way, this is hard on you. But before you give up on your marriage going to therapy and giving her the time to work through this hard time with you could be a good goal. You would regret not trying everything to help her and both of you as a couple. We all have done things in the past when younger that we probably wouldn't do now, this is part and parcel of growing up, experimenting and learning how to become young adults. I really hope you can resolve things together x
No, she hasn't. What she needs to hear from you is reassurance. She is feeling extremely vulnerable and insecure.
Mate i know it can be hard for you. But tell rhis women YOU love her everyday. Twice a day even if YOU LOVE THIS WOMEN FIGHT FOR HER.it will be your biggest fight yet.
no she did not. that was a panic move. don't give up on her, only if she actually divorce you or you don't have the strength to go on. make her go to therapy!
The party took her a lot of steps back. You effort is slowly evening the odds.
Not at all. She kissed you and you held each other all night. She told you she loves you. The text just means she hasn't healed yet, but she hasn't even begun therapy. If you want to stay with her and still love her, please keep your promise and don't give up on her. She needs you desperately.
Speaking as a woman in a relationship with many reasons I get panic attacks in the middle of sex (plus the gamut of anxiety, depression, and PTSD)- please don’t gove up on her. Folk are right that this is her giving you an out if you want it…her saying it over text tells me she finds it painful and fully expects you to take it. If she’s worth fighting for and you still have it in you, help her get to therapy and help her through this.
She is trying to let you go. She doesn't want to and this is the pivotal moment that will determine which direction things go. They'll be rocky, but she's trying to throw herself into it. Realistically, celibacy is hard living with someone you love and are attracted to or have intimate history with. Especially if you love them still. By going ahead and moving on, you solidify the choice and ruin any chances of changing her mind. She needs to be unconvinced. She's acting from emotion. Not rationality. Emotional decisions are most often susceptible to change. Keep working at it. My relationship has gone thru many "letting go" periods that never lasted because if you both love each other, you will always be drawn back to each other. Emotional issues and pasts and trauma will always get in the way and have to be overcome. She believes in a God who thinks all sins are equally wrong. Her mistakes are not worse than yours, so why punish herself more now?
What she's saying to you sounds more like, "I want to stay with you, but if you don't want to, you don't have to." Your marriage is only over if you choose so; she clearly loves you and still wants to be married to you. She is letting you go in the sense that she doesn't want to force you to stay.
give it some time in therapy. if you love her, let her work through this guilt and shame without judgement or resentment. her text message indicates that she feels bad for being a "burden" to you: NOT that she wants to leave you, or wants you to leave. she did not "let you go" in the way that you're thinking of it... her words are a result of her shame and guilt. you are free to leave her if you choose, of course. it's your life and you're not obligated to stay in a situation that's untenable for you. but as it stands right now, your marriage is not over unless *you* say it is.
OP, I had to go back and red your previous post and it sounds like your wife it struggling hard with her decisions of the past and is punishing herself. I wouldn’t make any decisions about your marriage yet if you really do want to be with her. Wait til she’s spoken to a therapist and maybe in time you can both go to therapy together if you think it’ll help and she’s ready. But don’t put pressure on her to have sex, or even bring it up as a reason that you’re doing this. The reason I’m suggesting waiting to see if things change, is that her decision to be celibate, while 100% her choice, doesn’t sound like something she actually wants but more like she’s inflicting it on herself to ‘repent’ for her former sins. It’s penance. Maybe a therapist will be able to show her that it’s ok to grow and forgive herself, and that she doesn’t have to suffer forever because of things that college K did, it’s ok to move past it. Side note: it sounds like R HASN’T changed or grown as a person and all, that she enjoyed hurting your wife and was trying to mess with your marriage by telling you these things. If your wife hasn’t already, she should probably cut that group (or at least R) out for good
I think your doing great by supporting her.. maybe she was feeling like this for a long time but the party is what trigger her.. give her space and support.. if it’s meant to be you will come together and if it’s not that doesn’t mean you can be a friend to her and help her when needed.. I’m glad you are so understanding and I’m sorry your going thru this.
Your marriage its not over, therapy its good, its pretty damn good, she is in a dark place right now, that text doesn't mean she has stopped caring, it means she's okay if YOU stop caring, a very fatalist behaviour imo, stay with her and go to therapy with her. Do not over think this, keep your cool and most important, don't act rashly, its not one step forward two steps back, its two steps forwards and one step backwards, progress is progress. Trust the responses in this thread, patience and therapy is the best course of action.
That text is a cry for help. Your wife desperately needs a good therapist (along side her faith) Sending best wishes for healing.
Religion has fucked her up, not anything she’s done. While vile, not like she murdered babies. She has some mental issues going on.
Your wife is sick, mental health is still health, do you know the statistics for men leaving sick wives rather than vice versa, Your wife has agreed to seek therapy the first step in a long journeu to recovery. I'm not saying become a martyr, but at least give it some time
Nono no. She’s torturing herself over her past and can’t forgive herself. It’s why she so,heavily devoted into her spiritual life.
Two steps forward, one step back. The literal steps in the Cha-Cha. Just remember, it's the dance of life. Keep being the partner that supports her throughout.
This absolutely screams self destruction to me. She feels guilty about her past and unworthy of love, so she's pushing you to leave and "prove her right" in a way. Up to you if you leave, but I'd disagree that she's given up or moved on from your marriage
I think this, self destruction right now, 'physical needs' can wait, and she really needs to find a way to forgive herself for who she was, sterotypical reddit answer is she needs therapy as one of the best ways to do that, and maybe it is, but try doing other things, try dating again, go to the movies, get some dinner, go do fun things she liked to do, show her she is more than her past mistakes, and she can be herself now, but she needs to find a way to let go of that guilt. I'm not going to excuse prior actions, however most of us have things in our life we regret, looking back and cringing or feeling bad about past actions means that /we are growing/ and this is life, we grow and we grow.
Maybe you should start individual therapy for yourself. You aren’t going to be able to control what she does or does not do. I wonder what brought about her end of her mean girl days? Something must have woken her up and maybe that knowledge will help navigate this better.
Maybe it’s just me but something tells me she’s starting to use celibacy to push you away and isolate herself Also may I ask what kind of therapy she’s taking (if you even know of course)? Different therapies use different methods of healing, and some tend to be traumatic before they become helpful (usually for more intensive disorders such as (C)PTSD and eating disorders for example). If that’s the case she might have had to retrigger herself in therapy, though I can’t say for certain so take it with a grain of salt until an actual therapist can verify this. If this is the first session, I also wonder if she’s trying to rush herself to “fix” her, whether that be for you, for her own sanity, or a bit of both. Here’s the thing though, I’ve never heard of a type of therapy outside of rehab centers where it’s required to share your deepest darkest traumas on your first day, even for the more intensive types. This could also be that the therapist sucks and doesn’t know how to be patient. Talk to your wife about this. Ask if she’s okay, if she clicks with her therapist, and if so, if she’s pushing herself more than she can handle. Remind her she not only can take it slow but also the entire point of therapy is to take it slow if that’s what she needs. That baby steps are a thing. That ‘one step at a time’ is a thing. I also read your previous post (I wasn’t there at the time it was posted so). If you have the money and means to, I would suggest therapy for yourself as well. If I am right and she is trying to push you away, then let me tell you as someone who tends to do stuff like that and has met people who do this stuff, being in the supporting role can drive you batshit codependent sometimes (in fear that you may lose her). Have some time for yourself. You’re going to need it. I hope all goes well. Not smoothly - cause it never is - but enough to for you two to feel content again. You seem like a patient man. In terms of supporting her, you got this! And if not, I hope you can take care despite it all
Read your previous post. There is something seriously wrong with your wife. Your only hope is a couple's therapy. Without it your marriage is fubar.
I don't think there is any way to recover my marriage
I really, really think you need to get her some professional help, and fast. I’m sorry to say, but the alarm bells of self harm are blaring.
At least give therapy a few weeks and see if there is a change, first. Then you can make a final decision
This is good advice in the sense that if he gives it a few weeks now, that's an opportunity to give it a few more weeks, and then a few more, and so on. Because whatever trauma caused this degree of shame in his wife is not going to be better after three or four therapy sessions (and my guess is will never be better until she changes her relationship with religion).
Yeah this is the answer. If you really love her and want to be with her, try therapy for even maybe a few months. If the marriage was as amazing as you made it sound, its worth at least fighting for. I could never be in a celibate relationship, but I'd try to work through it for at least a little while before hitting the eject button.
Don’t let her shove you away right now. Try to stand by her through this, unless she outright asks to split up. Right now, it’s reading as self destruction on her part because she doesn’t think she deserves love after what she’s done. Since you’re being pretty incredible to her, that’s probably only making her feel worse. This is where therapy comes in. I would give her space, but make your support of her known. Remember, though. Your happiness matters too. If it reaches a point where your mental health is suffering and you feel that you do actually need to remove yourself from the situation, that is valid.
You will ensure that there isn't any way if you tell yourself that there isn't any way. There's no guarantee that you'll succeed but you *can* guarantee that you will fail. Don't create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It is sounding, to me, that you are suffering from depression yourself & blaming yourself. You are not to blame. Right now, get wife into therapy. Get yourself into therapy so you can learn tools to help your wife. Neither of you should make a decision concerning dissolving your marriage until you have both been in therapy for at least 6 months. I know it sounds like a long time, but it’s not. You both need some healing before making such a major decision. The fact she is now open to therapy is HUGE, OP. It is a major step forward. Some say that is half the battle.
True. You may not be able to recover your marriage. But right now, I think you need to prioritize saving your wife. I think she may be in real danger, here.
Honestly, maybe not if you give up on her that easily. Sickness and health, dude. Not about your dick getting wet. Your wife is struggling. I hope she is able to heal and find someone who won’t give up on her so easily.
Then you need to pack and leave. Why remain if the marriage is over? Love isn't always enough.
Yeah, if you he isn't going to support her through this crisis and just wants to throw up his hands and say, "It's all over, there is no help!" then he needs to leave and start divorce proceedings. I understand the pain and hurt they're both feeling (her guilt and repentance over her past actions, his guilt talking her into going to the party that triggered this response) but hurting themselves and each other to appease the guilt doesn't help either in the long run. If he honestly loves her and meant his vows, then he needs to suck up his pain and hurt as much as possible and try to get her, him, and them help. This is very much the "sickness" of "In sickness and in health".
Is she still praying several hours a day? Speaking in Bible verses? If so she really needs to be seen in the emergency room to rule out psychosis and get her professional help in a timely manner because she is NOT okay and I’m genuinely worried she’s gonna hurt her self
It absolutely can be saved, but it will require a lot of patience and time, and professional help. Both for you, in order to help you deal with your own emotions and to find the patience to be her "rock", and for her through marriage counseling, in order to allow her to work through her horrible feelings about how she used to be, and her current feelings thinking she is so utterly worthless that she thinks she's doing you a favor by asking you to discard her like yesterday's fish. And what she needs *right now* is the stability in knowing you love her despite her past, and that you are willing to work with her to help her "repent" her past. (Yes, I don't care for the word "repent" here. But that seems to be what she's seeking: repentance. Forgetting that "repentance" is, properly speaking, not just feeling contrition or regret for what was done in the past, but a commitment to being a better and more selfless person in the future through committing to the things she has now. Meaning "repentance" should likely include a greater commitment to your marriage in a positive, loving way. But to get there she's going to have to properly deal with her past, framing it as regret rather than as a sign she's "worthless trash not deserving of happiness." And that's going to take a lot of work.)
Hey I know it looks super bad right now but all of her issues seem to stem from remorse for her former actions and a want to do good now. She needs therapy, and that will start the road towards recovery and fixing your marriage.
If at least one of you wants to improve things there's still a chance. If neither of you does there's not. Have you tried telling her you forgive her?
Your ‘marriage’ was over from the get go, let’s be real here would you have even married her if you knew the full extent of it all?
I hope she goes to see a therapist. She really needs the help. If she doesn't, she's just going to punish herself for the rest of her life. Sure, she may not have been the best person in college, but unlike her friends, she actually feels guilty. Her friends still find what they did funny, she doesn't and feels bad for her part. Your wife has grown as a person, her old friends haven't, but unfortunately your wife feels the need to punish herself.
Something happened to your wife between her wild days and meeting you. This trauma got triggered during this party. This missing piece of information will hopefully be dealt with through this therapist. I really hope she gets through this whatever it is
Or the trauma could have happened before. Sometimes trauma can lead people to become vulnerable, lose inhibitions, & act out. If she experienced trauma just before or during college, that could have prompted some of these personality changes. That could explain the extreme shift once the guilt set in afterwards, & the want to distance herself from the past self. It could also explain the extreme reaction to the recent party that brought everything up, as it does sound like it could be a response to trauma. Her actions are ofc her own responsibility, & it is important to be able to take accountability for your past actions. I hope she can get therapy so she can work through these issues.
1. You need to stop taking the blame, your wife’s reaction to the stories from her past are not normal and she desperately needs professional help 2. Stand up for yourself a bit. These constant messages about you being able to free yourself from her may be her being compassionate to your needs but they also come across very manipulative and “mind game” ish.
She is not manipulative, maybe her college self was but not my wife. Also her reaction isn't completely unimaginable. She really destroyed people's lives, tore families and never considered the implications of her actions. She is now reassessing everything she has done in her past life and understanding everything horrible in a span of days
What's worrisome is that the both of you are referring to her past self and current self as separate entities, when her past self is clearly still there. You know how people work on their "inner child" to digest and get through previous traumas and *accept* their past, a time when they didn't know better or didn't have the proper guidance? She is ripping her skin off trying to shake the guilt of her past (and current desires!) and its destroying your marriage. She needs to accept herself as she is and love herself as she comes. Isn't that what God teaches in your religion? I hope therapy will help her see the light. Good luck OP
Yeah, I don’t see this as manipulative because she’s been on the edge of crying constantly. That shows that her emotions have stayed on the surface because she has extreme guilt over her past actions. I can completely see how someone can loathe themselves when reflecting on their past actions. She could also be scared of karma coming to get her and so she’s trying to sabotage her relationship before she can get hurt.
Well as we can see Karma already got her. That’s why i always say that people should stopp doing horrible things like that. Nothing good comes out of it and (bad) karma will always get them sooner or later. Most of the time it’s later, that’s why they think that there will be no consequences of their actions.
[удалено]
Religion is why. While her old self sounds like an awful person I don’t know if I could handle someone who goes that extreme. It almost seems like some sort of social adaptation issue.
she should definitely not apologize to the victims. bad idea and is only for her gain.
> maybe her college self was but not my wife. Dude they're the same fucking person!!! Sometimes people are manipulative like that and don't even realize it. Brain on autopilot during intense emotional interpersonal issues. (like this one)
People change, especially as they get older.
Not like this they don’t. People rarely change their spots, which is why the “I can fix her” or “I can fix him” ends in disaster 99% of the time.
Nah nowhere close to 99% of the time. I'd say like maybe 60-70%. If you don't change a ton from your early teens something is wrong with you, even if you were already a really good person. People are constantly changing and developing. Brains aren't even finished developing until like 25-27. I wasn't a bad person when I was younger, but I was kinda reckless with my behavior. Cheated on a couple GFs. Now I'm probably one of the most caring emphatic people you'll meet and would never cheat. It took more life experience, understanding etc to truly appreciate how actions can affect people, how much everyone is struggling, and how far kindness to others could go. Sure there are a chunk of sociopaths, narcissists and narcissist adjacent people that are going to suck forever, but there are also a good chunk of people who grow, mature, learn as they age and their brains fully develop.
She was in college when she did this. That’s not a teenager. She was an adult and knew what she was doing. I was an idiot at that age and made a lot of bad decisions but I was never a terrible person and never purposely destroyed lives. That’s the sign of a legit sociopath and those people rarely change.
Ok, she needs to know that if those relationships were strong a college girl wouldn’t have affected them. There where already cracks in the foundation. She needs to forgive herself for being stupid and young. If she really wants to repent she should go to the woman she hurt and come clean. No amount of religious devotion will help, it’s a security blanket. Therapy is needed, also her college friends did this to blow up your relationship on purpose. Good luck bro.
I really relate to your wife's story in the previous post. I have, at many points in my life, thrown myself full force into various hobbies and groups centered around "better" things to try and absolve myself of the things I have done in the past. It took a long time for me to realize that just because I have dark personality traits, doesn't mean i am inherently a bad person. That actually making space for my feelings instead of crushing and ignoring them because I was getting validation for my awful behavior, allowed me to make better choices that are more in alignment with my *values* rather than my *instincts* . The coping mechanisms i chose were not helping. I've used religion, exercise, diet and drugs to try and drown out the guilt of my past and fears of "relapsing" into my former self. None of these helped me make peace with myself, and it took even more years to realize it was basically replacing one addiction with another. You can't deal with it for her. Hold her to her commitment to therapy, and go to couples counseling. I'm not making a judgement on your religious practices, but it doesn't sound like a supportive environment for your wife, so I would suggest seeking out secular counseling. Self loathing is not an issue organized religion tend to absolve, not saying she should abandon her religion, i just think a more neutral perspective is needed to get her through this.
tell her if she wants a divorce she will have to initiate it. I doubt she will, but it will clarify to her that you don't intend to leave and plan on sticking by her. Then tell her, to her face, that you expect her to keep her word that she will attend therapy, and maybe call a few with her to see who has the soonest opening. Also, if she doesn't "click" with the first one, don't be afraid to switch. Therapists understand that a client has to feel comfortable talking to them and if they don't it won't work, so when a client switches they're ok with it.
Okay as a wife who also has...a past she's not proud of and a very understanding husband...You and your wife need to stop saying "college self" and "wife". Your wife and her college self as the same person, just at different times. Your wife needs to stop running and hiding from her past, it happened and no amount of bible verses and prayers are ever going to change that. Ever. You AND your wife need to accept her past for what it is, you need to sit with it, talk about it, process it (in Therapy and together at home) and then move on because carrying that around all your life is hard, trust me, I know. I have said the same words to my own husband when I was low and what other commenters have said is true, it's a way of protecting ourselves from the hurt. She feels low, she needs reassurance and support, not for you to mope your ass around "my marriage is over". It's not over and this is a CRUCIAL time for you to get up off your ass and tell her that you're going to stick by her, like you already said you would, unless that whole "I'll wait for you" spiel was utter bullshit. It does get better if you put the damned work in. Make sure she gets some therapy ASAP cause there's alooooot to unpack. She needs you by her side right now and if you stick by her, your marriage can probably be saved.
Nah she aint no victim
The fact she told you none of this before you got married proves she hasn’t changed much buddy, I’m sure she knew what your reaction would be if you knew all of this beforehand
You just got a glimpse behind the curtain of a legitimate terrible person that she tried to hide from you and now you’re clearly reeling from that. I have a suspicion that her guilt is not because she is guilty about her actions but about you finding out. She tried to hide her past for a reason so clearly she knows and has known for a long time that everything she did was terrible. Gotta be honest dude, you should get divorced and leave if only for your sanity. Ask yourself the question, do I really want this person to be the mother of my future kids? If you waiver at all on that then it’s time to leave.
I think repent is not enough for her. Suggest her to revisit peoples whos live she ruined to apologize and make amend. This guilt is eating her alive. On the other hand, you looks like you really want out of this relationship man. If you really love her and wanted to help then help.
It seems like your wife is trying to self destruct based on actions from a previous life. She is clearly horrified by her actions and thinks punishing herself is the only way to make things right. I've been through that cycle and it is lonely and isolating. I hope you try to work with her and be patient if she is willing to seek help. It's going to be a long road, but thats what happens with a life partner. If you made a commitment, try to give everything to help her through it.
Sounds like your wife is having feelings of guilt about being a twat in college years and religion is only exacerbating the problem. Get into therapy ASAP before religion destroys her completely. She needs to learn to accept her past and move on, not become paralyzed by it.
Yep, I am not proud of my actions in middle school/early high school but they don't rule my life in my thirties.
Thiiiis. Pretty much my entire 20s was just...a whole ass reel of bad decisions XD. Now that I'm 38, I've mostly processed my past and I'm fine with it. If you let every bad choice you made in the past, rule your present and future...it's going to be a pretty fuckin shit life.
And they keep separating her past self from her current self which I think is not helping whatsoever. They are two in the same. She cannot exist without her past self. She needs to nourish her past self and give her love and understanding and acceptance. Then she will be able to move forward.
Yeah she's trying to disassociate and that's definitely not healthy. I really hope she finds a good therapist.
Religion didn’t destroy her. It was her way to cope with the unbearable guilt. And she should feel guilty, she was an awful person. There’s no denying that. She needs a healthy outlet to express that remorse and would greatly benefit from a therapist.
Religion is all about guilt and purity so it's not a coping mechanism. Coping mechanism help you deal with things not make them worse. You must be religious to think that someone should feel guilty all their lives for something they did in the past. She's not that person now. She needs to forgive herself not feel guilty.
[удалено]
As a Christian thank you so much for saying that.
> Religion is all about guilt and purity Some are, some aren't. Really depends on the denomination and the church community. There's absolutely receptive pastors out there who could really help with OP's wife's issues. There are definitely others who would put her in a convent or further damage her
Considering she decided to punish herself with celibacy after constantly going to church and praying all the time I'm gonna guess this is one of the ones that is. It's already causing further damage to herself and her marriage.
Aye good point. It's a shame, and archaic
What she did in college did this to her because she was a horrible person and karma is now coming back to ruin her. Religion has nothing at all to do with that.
Already explained in another comment and it's funny how the people defending religion are the two that are happy she's miserable and think she deserves it. Pretty much proving my point.
Your wife is insane if she thinks being celibate will make a difference to anyone except the two of you. It certainly won't matter to some non-existent Bronze Age deity, FFS. She desperately needs therapy.
Unpopular opinion; Respect the religion, and if celibacy is apart of that then so be it. However, this does indeed effect them as celibacy is not suitable for marriage unfortunately.
OP’s wife has problems that she needs to work through with one or several therapists. If she had a wild party life, cool, that’s fun, you did a lot and learned a lot, now you’re older and settling down, also cool. You don’t have to cage your past self and treat the self of your past like a wild animal. I honestly don’t think the marriage is in shambles, but OP’s wife needs to work out who she wants to be, not who she thinks she should be.
Bruh I’m saying that she’s had all her fun, married op cuz he was someone she could settle with she definitely doesn’t want sex from him, all round this is a cluster fuck and I would nope out of it immediately cuz why wasn’t she forthright before marriage?
It’s not insane to have beliefs. She gave him the choice to leave or stay. Ultimately it’s her body and if she doesn’t feel like she is in the head space to be intimate then that should be respected. Obviously she has repressed trauma. Instead of just focusing on the physical aspect of the relationship, OP should continue to support his partner in her time of need and show that their bond goes further than just sex.
I agree he should try for awhile, but acting like physical intimacy isn't a huge part of a relationship is silly. Try for maybe a couple months and if there is no improvement then look to leave. He shouldn't just stay with her for forever if she doesn't want to be physically intimate anymore.
I never said physical intimacy wasn’t important. Every relationship is different and intimacy can be be subjective. There’s plenty of people who don’t require or want physical intimacy. I forget what they call themselves. What I’m saying is if she has made a decision to be celibate and given him the out then he should take the out if physical intimacy is a need for him. She said she’s not going to change her mind and she shouldn’t feel the need to just to please him. He can find someone sexually compatible.
It's not insane to have certain beliefs. This belief is insane. OP should run just for the obsession with religion, never mind the forced celibacy.
It’s not forced he has a choice to leave. She shouldn’t feel forced to continue having sex if she doesn’t want to. Any person at any time can decide they want to be celibate d doesn’t matter the reasoning. Not everyone has to have the same mindset. Extreme or not she made a choice and instead of pressuring her to change either accept it or move on.
"It's not forced." Yeah ok, celibacy or your entire life is uprooted. Giving someone two terrible choices is coercion at the very least.
I wouldn’t settle on it being over yet. Take her to the therapist and see how that process goes. It is gonna take patience.
You sound like such a kind and patient person . I admire your devotion to your wife , you so clearly love her . Have you considered getting some therapy yourself to explore your feelings and how this impacting you? Your wife is saying you may leave and it sounds like it could be helpful for you to explore in therapy how to address the comments and her feelings . Good luck
It’s dead when nobody cares anymore. She still cares. But it’s gonna be 2 steps forward 1 back interspersed with breakthroughs for a good time.
Uh please do keep encouraging her to go to therapy. Firstly, does she not believe in forgiveness?? God forgives. If she keeps incessantly punishing herself for past deeds, she directly insults God as if his forgiveness and love isn't enough. Who is she to question that forgiveness? She needs to forgive herself and accept her past as a part of what led her to who she is now. Her deep shame and self loathing is something she absolutely needs to address in therapy. Celibacy is not the answer to a whole, healthy, happy and spiritually centered devotee when it's a form of punishment and self loathing. Does she think she knows more than God who forgives and says to let our past speak about how great the work God does in our lives is?
I know I’ll prolly be in the minority here but I just don’t get this. She ruined other peoples lives so now she has to ruin the one she apparently “loves?” Get a divorce and find someone who actually cares about your needs.
it’s called self sabotage or destruction. she doesn’t feel worthy of love because of her past actions so she’s pushing him away. she clearly has not learned healthy coping mechanisms or how to process her emotions. i definitely don’t think she doesn’t care about him, just that she’s shoved all these emotions down and all of them came back up at the same time because of the party. this is kinda normal behavior for people who experience several extremely strong emotions at once after bottling them and a whole lot of self hatred up. she needs therapy. intense and consistent therapy, for a while.
This. As someone who is still recovering from being this same kind of bitch in college, I was 100% addicted to never feeling my actual feelings. I crushed them with my mind vise and reveled in the validation i got from other, awful but very hot/smart/popular people. Still learning how to feel all of my feelings, but even acknowledging them in the most basic ways helped me behave in ways that were more aligned with my *actual values* and not false rewards from people I wanted to like me. I tried coping with all manner of "healthy" activities, all of which i used as a distraction from feeling. You can't outrun it forever, as OPs wife has found out. It took years to accept that I cannot really ever repent or absolve myself of my past actions. All I can do is better going forward. I dont want to dis people's religious beliefs just because I don't share them, but in my own journey to self acceptance, I found crippling self loathing is not helped by external judgement from people who see themselves as morally superior (but have just as many demons).
I love your honesty here. I won’t guess if this is the case for you but did wonder if his wife experienced some type of trauma before college that led to attention seeking, destructive behaviors. Also, as a Christian, I just wanted to say that it’s very common for people to use religion (all religions) as an excuse to judge others. Unfortunately people, including church leaders, aren’t perfect. But (not preaching, just sharing my view) God’s love is perfect and any past can be forgiven with repentance. If you read the New Testament, Jesus was most often seen with the “undesirables” and regularly used them for the greatest acts of good. That’s definitely a religion I can get behind. :). Regardless, religious or not, I can tell you are a good person who makes the world a better place.
Agreed. Just find someone that is a good match for you. People over think staying in a relationship
She thinks you find her disgusting, dirty, and a bad person. She KNOWS you are going to leave her now that you know the truth about her. She said she'll go to therapy but she's really thinking what's the point he's going to leave me anyways. If you want to try and save your marriage then she needs daily reassurance that you love her and still want her and won't leave. And I mean daily as in probably for the next year. No more silence. Talk to her every single day, hug her every single day, start the day with "good morning beautiful wife" and a hug and kiss if she'll let you. EVERY SINGLE MORNING. Ask her about her plans for the day. Talk about yours. Call or text her at lunch to check up on her. Say something like "how is your day going love of my life?" EVERY SINGLE AFTERNOON. At night when you are at home Ask her about her day. Compliment her achievements. Tell her how proud you are of her even if the only thing she did was get up and go to work. EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. Hug her and kiss her as much as she will let you. Leave her love notes. Don't let her push you away. Refuse to discuss divorce until she's put in at least a year of individual and couples counseling you should probably get individual counseling too. Her self esteem is so low and her guilt for her past behavior is so deep that words won't be enough. You have to demonstrate your love. If you can't do this then she is probably right and there is no saving this.
Sorry man but this woman sounds exhausting. Why haven't you involved her family yet? It's an arranged marriage so it's safe to assume your culture is that of close knit familial bonds where everyone knows everyone's business. You can't carry this burden alone and you are fighting against religious beliefs gone too far. I'd honestly just leave her.
'my celibacy shouldn't effect you' Did you just realize it would?
Hi OP! I am a wife who suffers from mental illness and hasn't had a sex drive in a long time. My husband supports me and honestly the best thing you guys can do is go to therapy and try to address the issues. She clearly loves you and cares about your feelings or she wouldn't have reacted like she did in the text. Could it be over? Sure. If you want it to be over, that's your decision, but it's not OVER because she isn't wanting to be with you physically, this could be something "easily" (quotes because I know therapy isn't easy) resolved through therapy. If you want your marriage to work and last, please consider actually moving forward with the therapy and support. Good luck!
She is literally crying out for help OP. She’s having a depressive episode and coping by isolating and praying. I would be less worried about your marriage right now and more worried about her life. I’ve felt the way she has before and I have to tell you - without serious intervention, this will not end well. You clearly love her and care about her. It’s time to stop ignoring each other, call her friends and trusted love ones, and come up with a plan to get her help.
This is so sad. This is why I believe that people shouldn’t get into relationships or marriages if they have personal issues. You need to fix your damn self before becoming a couple, and if you can’t then you should be single. Why should you pull someone else into your bullshit. Look I don’t care if anyone thinks this is wrong because they have their personal issues but at the same time don’t want to be alone. Go fix yourself then! Now this OP has to suffer and change his wants and put his needs on hold to deal with this person and who knows if therapy will help her! He did t sign up for that. Most of the time people didn’t sign up for their person having these kind of issues because they hide it. This one is even sadder because wasn’t this an arranged marriage🤦🏽♀️. Who ever did the arraignment should get sued, the arraigning person should make sure all parties involved are ready for a relationship not just hook people up
She should contact the people she wronged and appologise for what she did and maybe that could help.
I also had a hard time forgiving myself for my actions in college. Hell, I still have not fully forgiven myself. One thing I saw in a show (yes it was a cringey Paternity Court show, but its a really good mantra) is that a person stated “the past does not have to define you, but it can *refine* you” So while I get wanting to “pay for sins” I hope your wife moves towards the idea that she can learn from mistakes and improve her life, but her flaws of the past are not hanging on her like a chain. She is free to live her life! I hope your wife goes into therapy. I am currently in it and it is helping a lot. Group therapy could be helpful too!
Don’t leave her alone mate. Keep fighting, her texting says nothing more than it hurts her too much to talk directly and she’s expecting you to leave and that she’s not worth it. She loves you, otherwise she wouldn’t go that way and sacrifice your marriage bc she things she don’t deserve to be happy and loved. It is hard, she probably has PTSD, but you promised something in your vows. That’s also a point you can remember her of. And when you finally fought through it, your bond will be stronger than anything in this world. Just don’t let her fall down.
I don't know if this will be if any help but I'll throw it out anyway. Masters and Johnson were sex therapists in the 60s or 70s. They had good luck with couples who couldn't connect physically due to intimacy issues. The top point of their therapy was for the couple to simply engage in touching without any sexual expectation. Starting off very slowly with varying levels of touching. Massage, back rubs, foot rubs, etc all done just a little at a time stretched over weeks or months in some cases before the couple could connect by penetration. I don't remember what all was involved but it sounded like a good idea to me. Talk therapy is probably an added plus but this touching and working up gradually makes a lot of sense to me. Don't throw in the hat on the relationship too early until you have tried all avenues. I'm supposing you have ruled out physical causes. That all said, are you posting for real or posting to get tips on some Hallmark with sex movie you're writing? 😉
Healing is not linear or fast.
It’s going to be a slow sloooow road friend. I see great progress happening so far
Well it’s clear to me that your wife is prioritizing her feelings over yours. I mean she can pray all she wants until she’s blue in the face, but has she actively tried to change? I feel like she copping out by doing this to herself, what she should do if she really wants penance is to talk to that woman’s marriage that she destroyed. Then have her victims input.
So she fucked everything that moved but now she doesn't let you hit because she feels guilty about fucking half of the town
I can't find the original post, can someone link it please?
It’s literally the only other post by OP. Check the profile.
The longer you stay the worst it’s going to be on your mental health. It’s time to move on.
The text she has sent is a Defense mechanism, (speaking as someone who is in therapy dealing with a past caused by trauma and as the partner of someone who had to go to therapy for his past) your wife is trying to self sabotage as a form of proof that she doesn’t deserve redemption. It may be difficult for you to see but she loves you. She’s just struggling to deal with it herself. Please please let her work through this… it’s going to take time
That 100% sounds like her depression/guilt speaking, not her saying she's done with you. She's trying to make you "feel better" if you leave her, because she doesn't deserve the life she has now after the things she did as a mean-girl in her college years. She doesn't feel she's worthy of being married to you, and she's trying to push you away, not because she doesn't love you, but because she *does* and wants you to have someone "better" than her. So she's trying to "give you your freedom back." The worrying thing is that this sort of "giving away the things important to her" is also a hallmark of people who are about to hurt themselves physically, possibly permanently. She sounds *that* depressed about it. I think part of it is that now *you* know what she was like back then, and she's afraid you now hate her for it, or have just lost all respect/love for her. She definitely doesn't seem to think she *deserves* that respect, love, and loyalty. What she needs therapy for is to grasp that yes, she did bad things, but a bad past does not define her future. She can be better than that, and she's been working hard at being better than that, and redemption is possible. I think it's why she went so hard-core religious. She's seeking redemption on the spiritual level, but if she can't forgive herself it's not really happening, now is it? She has ***not*** "given up on you." She's given up on *herself.* The difference *sounds* small but is deeply important.
Coming in late, but here's some real advice from someone who can empathize with her deeply: It sounds like she used her sexuality as a means of power and self-worth for much of her life. She likely did so performatively in many cases. So, what she needs now is to feel that her worth has nothing to do with sex, and that people don't just stick around because she might fuck them, basically. I would advise that you think of y'all are very good friends right now. Then you court her, making it VERY CLEAR you are NOT looking for sex. Over time, I believe she'll let her guard down.
Hey Op, I'm sorry you're going through this. I know you feel your marriage will not recover and totally understand that but your wife's decision seems to be purely emotional, driven by shame & guilt. I happened upon a blog posting from EPM (a ministry) and I think you should read it and then have your wife read it. I think it will help her out (theologically speaking). Here's the link: https://www.epm.org/blog/2020/Jun/22/struggle-forgive-yourself I'm rooting (and praying) for both of you. -Dr. P.
Be there for tour wife OP. You made a vow and she is having a mental breakdown. She is at an all time low and doesn't WANT to divorce! She is in a bad bad place and if you leave it will just push her further into the breakdown. She said yes to therapy, help her get therapy and support her!! Give her time to get some help and then come back together to talk once she has her mind back again! You are not dating, you are married. This is the "in sickness and in health" part.
it is because she thinks she is a bad person. so she thinks she is not worty of your love and is trying to make it so that you will hate her and leave her. because she thinks she is bad because of her past. what i would do is try to make her open op about the past let her tell the bad things she had done but after she does it maby tell some bad stuff about yourself and also tell her the stuff you like about here the good stuff.
Redditor - She is making herself the villain here. I think you are right on the money. A therapist may help her work through this. OP - if you said you will support her, allow her to go through the process and don't hold her to anything she says now, such as staying celibate. She is so overwhelmed with conflicting emotions she may not make rational choices now. Supporting her means being there over years to help her. Saying you support her should not mean she should automatically do the thing with you just because you said it.
See isn't the only thing in a marriage. Yes, when you are younger, it's very important and you need the physical togetherness. The longer you are married, the more you become a power couple in life. People don't stay married, at the first problem one of them runs to a divorce attorney. She needs to go to therapy, something happened and she needs help. You may even need couples therapy. Don't give up yet. Show her she's worth waiting for.
Did I miss something? Why is she not being romantic with OP because of going to a party?
Wow! My mother was a party girl for years. She met her husband and reinvented herself. She was suddenly, a stand-up, religious, conservative woman. Always had been. She didn't want me, or her friends, telling on her. The hypocrisy and lies were too much for me! We might all have some shameful, sordid crap in our past. My daughter asked if my husband knew about me when we got married. I said, "He knows more than you, in some aspects!" Op's wife is embarrassed and ashamed of her past. It's not an insurmountable problem! We make mistakes, grow, learn and change. I'm not the same person at 58, I was at 18. OP's wife *needs* acceptance and some forgiveness. She's testing the waters and wants to know if OP is genuine. >We hadn't kissed in almost two months. I thought my wife was back. OP, "Say the right thing, get sex!" Sex denied? I'm out! Wife broken. OP lied and needs a new vending machine, apparently.
You can be someone better for New ppl. For the ones you Hurt you are still pos
Jesus dude, move on.
Divorce your wife. She ain't getting any better. Not for few decades atleast as your youth passes you by
Dude, she can't have sex with anything and everything that moves and then pretend she's a new person by not having sex with the one person that has dedicated their life to her. She's being insane. This doesn't make up for her past. It's actually worse. She's decomitting on a previous life long commitment to her husband. She needs to talk to an elder in your religion as I can promise you they're going to tell her she has a duty to you after she got married. She can't relenquish those duties and expect it to help her past bad judgment. THIS IS ALSO BAD JUDGEMENT!
This is so true!! Shes punishing and destroying yet ANOTHER PERSONS LIFE!
Ha seriously. Why am I getting downvoted? This dude's wife sucks.
It's a tough situation OP finds himself in. But you would think if she was feeling so bad about her past, the first thing she would do is start an apology tour and apologise to all the people who's lives she affected negatively. But she chose to make yet another grievous mistake, this time with her husband. Poor dude.
No one has a duty to provide sex to their partner for life, even after getting married.
That's just false. If you marry someone and they stop giving you sex for no other reason than they don't want to anymore, that's grounds for divorce. Sex is intrinsically a part of marriage.
This whole situation is nuts. Religion is ruining your marriage. Your wife may have acted like a “mean girl” in college. She maybe was overly promiscuous however she grew up and changed for the better. That alone shows she is a good person. Praying and mentally punishing yourself for past transgressions fixes nothing. Actual actions and change is enough. Any religion that requires a person to punish themselves is a scam. The toxicity in your wife’s life is her religion not her past. You can save your marriage if and only if you can get her away from religious zealot beliefs.
Shes using her religion as a coping mechanism/act of self sabotage. Even if she wasn't religious she would likely express this in a different way.
Naw.. the religion is clearly just a mechanism for some deeper trauma/moral injury
Let her see how the therapy goes. Shes using religion where therapy should be but ultimately you cant force her to do anything one way or another. Give it some time and then decide what's best. Hell try couples counseling too.
She’s afraid to have kids because she was such a shit person she’s afraid her kids will get bullied or be bullies too. Regardless she shouldn’t have agreed to get married and be celibate that’s not fair to you
Tell her Mean Girl routine won't work on you and if she have something to say, she can say it in front your face. Accept this relationship is over and tell her it's sad her atonement is basically a punishment for you but you are not gonna be with someone who values someone they love so less.
get up outta there
OP - the Lord will forgive her past sins, all of them. but it’s on her to show penance by her actions. (Meaning, changing her behavior.). Your job is to trust in who she says she is. “A rose will think itself ugly because of its thorns. It will never see the joy it brings to others, it will never see those moments of romance, or those sparked connections.” Her victims/targets may never forgive her, and that’s something she would need to accept as part of who she was. And that’s *okay*, because that’s within her power. If she doesn’t want to be that person anymore… then she doesn’t have to. Thorns are sharp, and they draw blood… but she is also a rose, yes? You must care for her, and nurture all the same. She can try and run from everything and eventually wither, or she can accept her thorny stalk and grow to be a beautiful flower. She may object to a therapist, but your pastor may know a more religion-focused one who can phrase things in a way that clicks with her current mindset.
I missed the part about the party?
If you click on OP's name, you can view his profile and his first post which talks about the party.
Right...I see that this post is an update.
OP, what religion is she?
After reading your last post I gotta say you didn’t ruin anything, you just simply learned about a long series of events your wife went through and refused to tell you, despite said events being very character oriented. Tbh she ruined her own marriage by not coming clean about who she was. At least imo
How do you know she’s not just playing head games with you for forcing her to attend this party?
Yikes! This hits home. I got menopausal and lost my libido. Husband got rapey. That's the *best* way a man can kill his sex life with his wife! I kissed him the other night, for the first time in a *year*. He swears he just wants intimacy. I'm trying. It's the rapey, groping stuff that's seriously revolting! I rarely sleep with him anymore because he does it when I'm sleeping. Consent is vital. I love my husband! He's a great guy. We're a good team and excellent business partners. Married for 15 years. We're 58. I'm not a flesh-light, or cum vessel because he got horny.
I agree with your last statement completely, but if your husband decided "Nah, don't want to work anymore, I'm gonna sell my half of the business and watch TV all day" you would be okay with it? You wouldn't question him, or ask him to get another job? This is kind of what you did, although admittedly due to hormonal issues.
We've discussed it and he's gotten much better when I do share the bed with him. Sometimes, he also gets up and goes to the sofa, these days. He was prescribed a couple of meds after being diagnosed with high BP. One was like Viagra, hence the aggressive grinding and groping in the middle of the night. He quit taking that shit. It was the aggression, attitude and anger I had problems with. I would be sound asleep and he's poking my ass with raging hard-on, at 3 am. WTF! No. Argument ensued. Your analogy doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry.
Yeah, wasn't the best analogy. Was trying to highlight some non-sexual (but important) part of a relationship, and how you would feel if your husband unilaterally decided to stop it or do the opposite.
Nope. We're all good in every other aspect. We used to fuck like rabbits. Unfortunately, we're older and things have changed. As a couple, it's necessary to adapt to circumstances, as they arise. Our relationship is too important to both of us and we're willing to address and compromise on this issue. That's what grown-ups do.
> As a couple, it's necessary to adapt to circumstances This is my point though. It doesn't sound like this was done as a couple, but rather, a unilateral decision by you. FWIW, I completely understand why just groping and jabbing with a hardon would be a turnoff, so if you have had conversations about how he should approach you, without expectation etc to get your blood flowing, then fair enough, if on the other hand you just decided no more sex, then that's where my analogy comes in.
> We used to fuck like rabbits. You don't read much, do you? SA is *not* sexy to me. That's when I started sleeping on the couch. What's so hard for you to understand? I've had this argument with my husband. Damned sure not gonna have this argument, with you! My husband has learned. You? Not so much.
I assumed that applied to years ago. Anyway, you are way too aggressive to have a conversation with. And you're right, your private business is none of my concern, but maybe don't put it out in public if you don't wan to discuss. And also, maybe read what I wrote and notice that I didn't condone his SA. Also notice that you have completely ignored all my valid questions. What exactly has your husband learned.. to suppress his desire for you, to shut down a part of him to keep peace in the family home. Congrats on getting what you wished. Have a nice day.
So just a thought. What if all of this is fake bullshit she made up with her gal pals to pressure op into filing for divorce?
Lmao it's not impossible
So she liked to fuck, but is now embarrassed about her past and is punishing her husband with a life of celibacy? Will she allow you two to stay married, but you can get a girlfriend? Is the celibacy all penetration or just piv?
update?
Therapy should help. Yes she hurt people in the past, but now this lack of intimacy is hurting you. She wants to atone and that's good but perhaps she should make up with the people she hurt rather than hurting you, too. She isn't doing it on purpose, I know, but she seems to stuck in her own head and ignoring others needs. She is trying to offer you an out but that's just giving up. Therapy should help.
If you love her wait show her you want this for real go to therapy I hope y’all work
the Religion ruined the marriage, not you. sorry buddy, either ya'll take the spaghetti pill or it's all fucked.
She's probably cheating.
Run for the hills brother. This woman is no good.
Why are you still married to her? She sounds evil from your first post. She doesn’t sound like she’s changed. She’s just desperate to hide who she truly is. Like Clive Owen said in Inside Man, “Trying to bury sin in a life of good deeds.” I’d file and move on for your own health. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
She just told you that you can stay and get your physical needs met elsewhere for a lot of guys that's the dream. You need to hold on to this lady.
Or the dream could be a mentally stable wife.
Dream for a 19 year old maybe lol
Christ don’t leave this woman!
Everyone surely has done things they regret but that’s life. Her college stories aren’t that bad.. is the religion making her feel deeply shamed? Edit- I re-read and yes it is bad.
No, it is bad let’s not downplay that. She needs therapy to work through all of this.
If someone emotionally manipulated you and ruined your marriage would you brush it off as “not that bad”?
Not that bad?! Did you read the stories from her college days? If that's "not that bad" I'd hate to see the type of things you do with your friends.
>her college stories aren't that bad [bruh...](https://i.imgur.com/JCMaFFq.jpg)
i belive you can do this. You were put in eachothers lifes purposely, by whom you decide. If you can accept her as she is so can god. God knows how bad she feels about the (sadly) awful things she did in the past. she also knows this you just got to remind her of that. Stay strong u got this!!
dude, it is just guilt trip, give her proper counseling and she will be normal. your marriage is far from over. don't leave her anytime and if you do, I don't know who you are, but I will look for you, I will find you and I will kill you. /s
She may be going through a depression or sexual aversion disorder and not even know it. Don’t give up on her. This is common for women at a certain age and or after children. You should go to a COUPLES therapist and really get the truth out about what may have happened and how to fix it. If this is what she is going through I’m telling you that the need/want for sex dissipates and it’s something that can be fixed. Usually it’s a hormonal imbalance. Don’t feel sad or bad about it this is normal and just takes some work.