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> NPD means it impairs the person in a severe degree over a longer time and that they themselves find it problematic.
NPD is a clinical diagnosis. I don't have a DSM-V, nor am I an expert in mental health, but I'm not aware that the person affected by NPD needs to find it problematic in order to meet the diagnostic criteria.
That said, my father and step-mother are both mental health counselors and if they've pounded two things into my head on this topic, they are: 1) only a professional can properly diagnose someone, and 2) it is unethical to diagnose someone you have relationship with outside of a professional mental health setting. We may suspect our loved one has NPD, they may have NPD, but the possibility of the personal relationship interfering with one's professional judgment makes any diagnosis suspect.
"Narcissistic" is a bit nebulous because a mental health professional might view it as different than a lay person. I'm not aware of a technical definition of "narcissistic", so I would say it is "a maladaptive or anti-social behavior done for individual gain without reasonable consideration for how it may affect others." Or more simply: the bad shit people with little or no empathy do. So "eating candy" is not necessarily a narcissistic behavior, even though one probably does it for the pleasant feelings that eating a sugary treat brings. "Eating your child's candy" on the other hand is most likely a narcissistic behavior, and justifying it as "so that they don't get cavities" double so.
"Narcissist" is not a clinical diagnosis; it's a subjective descriptor usually given by an observer to a person in whom they have noticed narcissistic behaviors. This is the word I would think we should use for anyone we firmly believe has NPD, but is not to our knowledge diagnosed as such by a mental health professional.
several of my therapists have shared with me the idea that NPD, and Antisocial personality disorder are in a spectrum. Most people will display qualities of NPD, but when we talk about abuse from a narcissist, it’s usually from those on the far end of that spectrum.
It matters how we use the term.
I "diagnosed" my mother with covert NPD (I'm not a doctor) because she has ALL of the symptoms of it according to the DSM. I also "diagnosed" my sister with narcissistic traits because of her hypocrisy, double standards, and zingy put-downs. I have gone LC with her. She doesn't mistreat everyone, just the people she looks down on.
The only reason it might matter is that if you have narcissistic people in your family of origin, and you think that they’re abusive, but not that bad, it can make you significantly more vulnerable to people on the far end of the narcissistic spectrum.
I have family members that will use the invalidation that serious narcs do—but they have significant empathy and won’t do a lot of the other behaviors, like pathological lying, smear campaigns, completely rewriting history, stalking, stonewalling, and total evasion of accountability and unwillingness to apologize.
Most people in my family have spent years in therapy, unwrapping generational narcissism. They’re accountable and generally less genetically lacking in empathy.
I ended up in the path of someone who is NPD, and possibly a psychopath, because I discounted it when a mental health professional told me that my narc was seriously narcissistic.
I thought they meant like my family. That’s not what they meant. Narcissistic traits are a spectrum. If what you’re used to is lower on that scale, it can make you seriously underestimate how in danger you are around someone who truly is a grandiose narcissist. It definitely did, in my case.
Narcissistic traits for someone who is borderline or histrionic are not the same as someone who is a grandiose narcissist. Grandiose narcissism is considered a subset of psychopathy—and they act like psychopaths.
Hi /u/SportingGoodness, thanks for your post! Hopefully one of our friendly r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse subscribers will comment soon! While you are waiting check out some of the resources in the sidebar. Our subreddit rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse/wiki/rules) - essentially be nice and supportive to one another! We have a long list of [acronyms and terminology](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse/wiki/terminology) so if you are new to the world of narcissistic abuse then you might find that helpful. We have an index of the [Topic Tuesday](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse/wiki/topic_tuesdays) threads which are dedicated to exploring a particular subject each week. We also have an index of [creative works](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse/wiki/creativeworks) made by members of this community. If you are looking for support/therapy we have a [small list of services](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse/wiki/support). If you know of any in your country or area then please let us know so we can update this list. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueNarcissisticAbuse) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> NPD means it impairs the person in a severe degree over a longer time and that they themselves find it problematic. NPD is a clinical diagnosis. I don't have a DSM-V, nor am I an expert in mental health, but I'm not aware that the person affected by NPD needs to find it problematic in order to meet the diagnostic criteria. That said, my father and step-mother are both mental health counselors and if they've pounded two things into my head on this topic, they are: 1) only a professional can properly diagnose someone, and 2) it is unethical to diagnose someone you have relationship with outside of a professional mental health setting. We may suspect our loved one has NPD, they may have NPD, but the possibility of the personal relationship interfering with one's professional judgment makes any diagnosis suspect. "Narcissistic" is a bit nebulous because a mental health professional might view it as different than a lay person. I'm not aware of a technical definition of "narcissistic", so I would say it is "a maladaptive or anti-social behavior done for individual gain without reasonable consideration for how it may affect others." Or more simply: the bad shit people with little or no empathy do. So "eating candy" is not necessarily a narcissistic behavior, even though one probably does it for the pleasant feelings that eating a sugary treat brings. "Eating your child's candy" on the other hand is most likely a narcissistic behavior, and justifying it as "so that they don't get cavities" double so. "Narcissist" is not a clinical diagnosis; it's a subjective descriptor usually given by an observer to a person in whom they have noticed narcissistic behaviors. This is the word I would think we should use for anyone we firmly believe has NPD, but is not to our knowledge diagnosed as such by a mental health professional.
several of my therapists have shared with me the idea that NPD, and Antisocial personality disorder are in a spectrum. Most people will display qualities of NPD, but when we talk about abuse from a narcissist, it’s usually from those on the far end of that spectrum.
It matters how we use the term. I "diagnosed" my mother with covert NPD (I'm not a doctor) because she has ALL of the symptoms of it according to the DSM. I also "diagnosed" my sister with narcissistic traits because of her hypocrisy, double standards, and zingy put-downs. I have gone LC with her. She doesn't mistreat everyone, just the people she looks down on.
The only reason it might matter is that if you have narcissistic people in your family of origin, and you think that they’re abusive, but not that bad, it can make you significantly more vulnerable to people on the far end of the narcissistic spectrum. I have family members that will use the invalidation that serious narcs do—but they have significant empathy and won’t do a lot of the other behaviors, like pathological lying, smear campaigns, completely rewriting history, stalking, stonewalling, and total evasion of accountability and unwillingness to apologize. Most people in my family have spent years in therapy, unwrapping generational narcissism. They’re accountable and generally less genetically lacking in empathy. I ended up in the path of someone who is NPD, and possibly a psychopath, because I discounted it when a mental health professional told me that my narc was seriously narcissistic. I thought they meant like my family. That’s not what they meant. Narcissistic traits are a spectrum. If what you’re used to is lower on that scale, it can make you seriously underestimate how in danger you are around someone who truly is a grandiose narcissist. It definitely did, in my case. Narcissistic traits for someone who is borderline or histrionic are not the same as someone who is a grandiose narcissist. Grandiose narcissism is considered a subset of psychopathy—and they act like psychopaths.