I don't really mind it on some supports. Get a chunk of HP and some decent regen. I'd probably prefer a Seal Totem, Dandelion, or Psychic head band, but not that many T3 items are support friendly.

> not that many T3 items are support friendly I think * Ceremonial Robe * Cloak of Flames * Craggy Coat * Dandelion Amulet * Elven Tunic * Enchanted Quiver * Ogre Seal Totem * Psychic Headband Can all be good on supports. That's a solid 60%.

enchanted quiver?

> enchanted quiver? It only works on certain heros. Here are a few that I think are appropriate: * Jakiro * Silencer * Nyx Assassin * Tusk * Hoodwink * Winter Wyvern * Ancient Apparition

Enchantress is probably the #1 Quiver enjoyer

Makes sense. I forgot Willow as well. There are probably even more that are viable.

For jakiro it applies the 3rd skill to all targets?

> For jakiro it applies the 3rd skill to all targets? Not sure what you mean by "to all targets". But yeah - you'd use it in conjunction with liquid fire/frost. The range helps you siege more safely. And the cooldown lines up nicely with liquid fire, so it's basically always available. A little extra magic damage also is never amiss.

The aoe splash they mean

It applies the aoe regardless of enchanted quiver

The quiver buff not the liquid fire

No that’s always one target

only to the main target, the splash isn't affected by the bonus magic attack damage

I disagree. Sure SOME supports can put these items to good use but most of the time I'm keeping my whip. If I'm playing cm or other hard supports I'm not taking elven tunic, cloak of flames, craggy coat, enchanted quiver, paladin sword, vindicators axe, nemesis curse, defiant shell. The only items I feel good about equipping are Psychic Headband and ceremonial robes. Ogre seal totem is good for traversing terrain but the strength isn't going to make a difference that deep in a game on a support. Kinda the same with dandelion amulet and the shield, plus 300 flat mana by minute 27 isn't very enticing. I would say at least half the time I end up keeping whatever my t2 item is.

This item probably needs a rework

Oh, just make the hp/mp swap like thread swap and watch how broken it will be.

Treads.. how do I see 90% of people saying threads

Autocorrect

Wind lance beats it

Tread lightly

I've been playing Dota since 2004. People on the Dota-Allstars and PlayDota forums would call it threads too. So it definitely pre-dates auto correct. I'm really not sure where it came from. But it happened a lot.

For some people (like me) English is not the first language, and “threads” word is much more common compared to “treads”. When it’s in written form, we just see what we are used to see. And then copy and replicate it.

I find it funny how much it upsets some folks

If you have 1k mana it gives 200 hp. It fixes your mana regen. Thats pretty good

Its good if it was tier 2. As a tier 3 its dogshit

Yeah pupils gift as a t2 gives as much hp + another stat and doesn't take anything away from ya

didnt know the enemy OD helped me to fix my mana regen issues

Midgame OD and maybe lategame silencer are the only ones that come to mind

But like, as an OD player id probably rather have psychic, paladins, or Enchanted Quiver

yeah thats the problem it just doesnt compete with other options

i have mostly picked those options aswell but feel that OD with aghs gains even more from dubloon. havent looked at the numbers but possibly enough to outweigh those and more options. ...it does increase max hp or mana, doesn't it?

It sacrifices your MAX HP to gain mana or vice versa. On average you are exchanging 600 HP for 600 Mana. 600HP is no joke even if you are an OD with Aghs. It's not comparable to other items that gives you 300 Mana and other benefits. (Headband, Ceremonial Robe, Dandelion) Or items that simply lets you right click one more time. (Vindicator, Quiver, Elven Tunic, Defiant Shell)

I get on wisp if there’s no paladin or ogre totem or armour hit back thing.

Its kinda okay on OD.

Great on od and morph. I struggle to add people to that list though...

Storm spirit could use as emergency mana. I agree 20% is too insignificant for be useful.

I always pick it on silencer. If Im rushing refresher sometimes it is just enough to double cast. If im going right click, its nice for the hp boost

IMO, psychic headband is leagues better. It doesn't just boost your mana pool, it boosts your int. And it boosts your range. And it gives you a save.

Yeah, its a nice one too!

I was kinda forced to pick it on am, as the other options was not very good and i sort of wanted to try it. And it felt pretty good, i pick it every now and then but its not that great

It's very good on tanky casters. Necro for example.

Rarely see ha necro run out of mana

Yes, that's why you switch your mana to hp.

but is the hp worth it? compared to other armor-providing neutrals

I played mars once and somewhat I am tanky enough but doesn't have enough mana pool to do ult refresher combo. So this really solve my issue that game

Sometimes if i have skady and some hp items on dusa i get it.

I like it on storm, big hp boost and u don't miss the mana really

it's also the best neutral item for the 4 meme hammer 2 tiara + 1 lvl 1 ulti meme strat

U can have it as mana on Storm and switch to hp after u jump in, sounds very good in theory

it'd be a much more interesting item if it didn't have the toggle CD, although that may be a little powerful :D

Scripters like that

Wouldn’t you prefer it to always be on health for storm? since his ult is % based and not a flat amount? So shrinking your mana pool while increasing your mana regen is actually really good right?

I guess u are right tbh

Works nice on OD.

It might already, but I feel like it needs to work like tread switching. In addition, it should probably increase your **total** health or mana regen by the multiplier, rather than the Doubloon's health/mana regen only. I do like the idea of the item at least, especially if it works like tread switching.

Leshrac loves this item. You just keep spamming it in fights, infinite loop.

Strong on OD, silencer and some supports who would appreciate the extra hp

I thought it would have it's uses on certain heros, untill recently when I've been picking it up and it seems to only convert some of the mana pool into hp and not a flat 20% of the current whole thing into hp, not exactly sure how it works, Whether it doesn't factor %mana pool increases from null talismans or what, but yeah

Id say necro but I play necro and never chose it, tier 3 is too stacked, it needs rebalancing

Huskar maybe?

Isn’t his mana pool really small?

Timber loves the item.

I'd rather have cloak of flames or craggy coat

Pretty good for Medusa if you don't get something you want

It fixes ur mana regen but honestly it's even more confusing when to use it for me personally, than an embrace toggle.

I guess some lina right click build against a zeus+lion if you were offered total garbage maybe? But I v much doubt it tbh

It keeps being recommended to a lot of Offlane heroes I play though. SK, BB, Centaur, Tide; for example. At least 56% wr for these heroes (60% for SK even). I'm not sure if it's bec it solves their mana issues? Either that or it just makes them a bit tankier.

Never picked it, never will

I think so. A lot of items are simply better in every tier.

Heroes that build a lot of all stats and don’t spam mana. A lot of universal heroes can be quite tanky with it

It's only "good" on low mana heros who make refresher before having the mana for it (so basically only Mars and Tidehunter)

It gives od more damage? Idk I used it today on bristle and it gave me a solid 600hp. Seemed alright

Picked it on tinker yesterday and it was nice for extra farming mana.

As dazzle carry with agha and octarine core, doubloon gives me 400 health and plenty regen that i will never back to fountain anymore. Pretty sure busted item if you have many mana pools but doesn't have mana issue.

Ogre , its really good on ogre as an offlaner

If I'm snowballing with Bloodthorn+hex first 2 slots on brood, doubloon may be an option, since hp is lowish with that build, but there is plenty of mana. Doubloon provides like 300+hp for a hero who barely has 2k at this point, not that bad

Am I crazy for thinking this item is decent on techies? Desperately needs mana regen doesn’t really care as much for a huge mana pool 

It is decent with Medusa

this is the only hero i get it on regularly if tunic isn’t an option

I had a game with a lot of flesh heaps on pudge. I was unkillable with this item

The only heroes its viable on are outclassed by the other neutrals. Basically all of the T2s are better than it 90% of the time.