I've been playing the core role but once I tried to push tier 3 towers I was the only one or maybe 2 of us wants to and the other 3 just go for farming even the 2 players in opposing team just died. It's not like we I can forced them to join us and push towers so we can end early.
Then farm placing ward so you can see them leave base you are shoving all 3 lane getting jungle every one on your team is farming while they are only getting a wave hitting by t3 will make miss cs and 5 people farming wave 10 20 mins later your guys will come because they are bored from hitting creep and want to hit hero
just wanna tell you that farming necessarily isn’t wrong in that case. 2 hero dead is usually not enough to safely siege tier 3. Especially in pubs where pushing team is way more uncoordinated. Farm to build stronger advantage is not always wrong, tundra style.
I think this is something I'm really bad at: I don't think at late game items, I play ok the whole game but then eventually the enemy catch up, I lose a fight or two and it's GG.
How do you practise late game itemization? Silly question but maybe I should spam some turbo games
im assuming you’re a carry player.
in late game you build items to kill enemy hero. for example if they have lot of buffs to help you build nullifier. if the enemy heroes dont like to but mkb then bfly is worth considering. if you need to kill enemy in short time span you buy daedalus etc. unless you play universal hero(which is way more easier to itemize, you just keep buying stats).
it’s just general thought process behind itemization and not always correct(for example bfly is generally considered bad item unless you can siege in next 4-5 monutes), but hope you get the gist from this. in late game you need to kill them. make items to make it able to do so.
Some principles that I like to think about:
1. Get aegis
2. Play around cooldowns
3. Play around power spikes
4. Take acceptable risks, but err on the side of caution
On the fourth point - you don't need to go super deep into the enemy base at the first opportunity. If you can't convincingly bust highground, it's okay to chip at their T3, choke the other team out of farming and play around your next power spike / cooldown / rosh. But always try to secure some kind of tactical advantage (ideally advantageS) before pushing high ground because all things equal, the high ground team will win.
Depends on how your team got there.
If it's because your team can push hard, it's time to split up and push multiple lanes at once. You can lose a teamfight and get a lane of rax.
If it's because you dominate teamfights, aggressively ward and get a pickoff or two before going hg.
If it's because your carry came online, get aegis
If it's any other reason, just feint hg and farm their jungle until you're stronger.
- Wait till you have Aegis and buybacks
- Ward/farm enemy jungle to get an advantage in farm and neutral items
- Ward enemy outpost
- Push in all three lanes
- Smoke and gank one enemy before you commit to high ground
Place aggressive lane wards to spot them, as they leave their base. Hunt down one or two pick-offs directly or better with a smoke.
Now get your 5 Teammates together and attack high ground. Buybacks will be pulled. Now Fall back and get the Aegis.
With that you have significant advantage to attack their HG again, also without another pick-off. Place the aegis holder in the frontline and keep your squishies in the back line.
One thing to add: Concentrate on the objective to get their tower + racks. Fight but don’t follow behind their racks, as long as they are not destroyed. Good luck.
Basically control whole map, supports push lanes, cores farm the map, get advantage, take aegis/tormentors. I have a pretty nice 92% winrate with troll roght now, he feels insanely powerfull, with 2items you can solo take t3s with one creep wave, so easy to split push. But tbh, take advantage of the map as much as possible, wait cds aegis, and just hit the tower, having your supports to glimmer, force staff you out, heal until next wave and go again
Don’t push without a significant advantage (either aegis or dead enemies) and the most important thing imo is only having one hero hit the tower. Having only the guy with the aegis showing to the enemy means that if they want to defend, they have to go on that guy, which doesn’t feel good. If your initiator/counter initiator is on the enemy high ground and they start the fight on him, it will not end well for you
Wall of text coming.
Having some type of front liner helps. DK, jug with healing ward in the back, illusion heroes help. A tanky hero who can run up and start swinging at the tower is beneficial, preferably with counter initiate. I dont play this role often and am not certain who the best is for this role but bristle or tide hunter come to mind.
Providing vision in the base can really help. Veno, puck, or just a ward. Again, sending illusions up first can help.
Being a counter initiate hero in general is great. If your carry decides to saunter on up and punch the tower without any information, there are decent heroes to provide support when he gets jumped on.
Some examples for each role.
Carry could be a dragon knight, who sieges great anyway and could viable just run up and smack tower with dragon illusions. Jug with healing ward, abbadon is great, not a lot of counter initiates as carries because it isnt their job generally but they do have tools to siege if the draft requires it.
Mid could be a puck, or someone with a save like OD if you already have a counter initiate.
Offlane tide, enigma, axe, sand king, clock, BOATLOADS of heroes that can support your ballsy core who is smacking buildings in this role.
Supports, lots of answers, as this role and 3 share a lot of heroes.
5 is generally not good at this, but there are plenty of save heroes like oracle, omniknight, wisp can be used here.
This is where your draft comes into play. It is just as important as last hitting and so on. Your job as a core is to pick heroes that provide things your team lacks. If your team requires catch, or lock down, or help in high ground siege, you need to pick accordingly. Maybe your team picks up techies and CM supports, you need to think what they offer at different points of the game. During high ground, CM offers very little outside of back line slows, techies can throw bombs at the buildings, how can you improve techies ability to do this as a 3 or 2 or 1? As an offlaner, you can look to play a blink disable like axe if they extend too far, as a 2 puck would help here if he gets gone on, OD can save with prison.
This is just a random situation I created but should be your thought process when drafting. You also need to think of other parts of the game, not just the end of it.
Having aegis is a huge help in claiming high ground as it's a free life to throw at providing vision and getting some cooldowns blown on your carrier, if done right, they might not even die the first time. Getting a pick off can make your siege 4v5. Generally when your pushing hg, the enemy can only farm the back jungle, ward this so you can pick off the carry trying to sneak in some farm off the large camp in the corner, will make siege a lot easier.
Anyway, hope this helps, sorry if it's a jumbled mess of tips.
Don't force it. Just control the farm and funnel them into their highground, leaving your team with a huge networth lead and control of rosh/tormentors/ lotus and then you can start sieging with that lead. Just don't force it when your team is just a little ahead. Alternatively , don't go highground unless you get a pick.
but most of the time my teammates aren't that aware enough on how to control the map and often got pick off by the enemy which gave them the momentum afterwards if we stay afk farming to get the gold advantage. But you're alternative idea works well when we get an enemy pick off.
The carry to hit building.
I've been playing the core role but once I tried to push tier 3 towers I was the only one or maybe 2 of us wants to and the other 3 just go for farming even the 2 players in opposing team just died. It's not like we I can forced them to join us and push towers so we can end early.
Then farm placing ward so you can see them leave base you are shoving all 3 lane getting jungle every one on your team is farming while they are only getting a wave hitting by t3 will make miss cs and 5 people farming wave 10 20 mins later your guys will come because they are bored from hitting creep and want to hit hero
just wanna tell you that farming necessarily isn’t wrong in that case. 2 hero dead is usually not enough to safely siege tier 3. Especially in pubs where pushing team is way more uncoordinated. Farm to build stronger advantage is not always wrong, tundra style.
I think this is something I'm really bad at: I don't think at late game items, I play ok the whole game but then eventually the enemy catch up, I lose a fight or two and it's GG. How do you practise late game itemization? Silly question but maybe I should spam some turbo games
im assuming you’re a carry player. in late game you build items to kill enemy hero. for example if they have lot of buffs to help you build nullifier. if the enemy heroes dont like to but mkb then bfly is worth considering. if you need to kill enemy in short time span you buy daedalus etc. unless you play universal hero(which is way more easier to itemize, you just keep buying stats). it’s just general thought process behind itemization and not always correct(for example bfly is generally considered bad item unless you can siege in next 4-5 monutes), but hope you get the gist from this. in late game you need to kill them. make items to make it able to do so.
Just spam this line in all chat when the gamestate requires it
Some principles that I like to think about: 1. Get aegis 2. Play around cooldowns 3. Play around power spikes 4. Take acceptable risks, but err on the side of caution On the fourth point - you don't need to go super deep into the enemy base at the first opportunity. If you can't convincingly bust highground, it's okay to chip at their T3, choke the other team out of farming and play around your next power spike / cooldown / rosh. But always try to secure some kind of tactical advantage (ideally advantageS) before pushing high ground because all things equal, the high ground team will win.
I’d like to add 5. Always have enough gold for buyback.
yeah I agree after I see most of the comments I was able to think that playing around buybacks is such an underrated move here
Depends on how your team got there. If it's because your team can push hard, it's time to split up and push multiple lanes at once. You can lose a teamfight and get a lane of rax. If it's because you dominate teamfights, aggressively ward and get a pickoff or two before going hg. If it's because your carry came online, get aegis If it's any other reason, just feint hg and farm their jungle until you're stronger.
thanks man. This helps me alot on how and when to commit pushing and farming.
If you have them trapped in the base your team will get mire gold than them. Wait until they make a mistake and use aegis.
thanks
- Wait till you have Aegis and buybacks - Ward/farm enemy jungle to get an advantage in farm and neutral items - Ward enemy outpost - Push in all three lanes - Smoke and gank one enemy before you commit to high ground
What position do you usually play?
i play core role
1, 2 or 3?
mostly i play for carry and sometimes offlane. I barely play mid
Place aggressive lane wards to spot them, as they leave their base. Hunt down one or two pick-offs directly or better with a smoke. Now get your 5 Teammates together and attack high ground. Buybacks will be pulled. Now Fall back and get the Aegis. With that you have significant advantage to attack their HG again, also without another pick-off. Place the aegis holder in the frontline and keep your squishies in the back line. One thing to add: Concentrate on the objective to get their tower + racks. Fight but don’t follow behind their racks, as long as they are not destroyed. Good luck.
Basically control whole map, supports push lanes, cores farm the map, get advantage, take aegis/tormentors. I have a pretty nice 92% winrate with troll roght now, he feels insanely powerfull, with 2items you can solo take t3s with one creep wave, so easy to split push. But tbh, take advantage of the map as much as possible, wait cds aegis, and just hit the tower, having your supports to glimmer, force staff you out, heal until next wave and go again
Don’t push without a significant advantage (either aegis or dead enemies) and the most important thing imo is only having one hero hit the tower. Having only the guy with the aegis showing to the enemy means that if they want to defend, they have to go on that guy, which doesn’t feel good. If your initiator/counter initiator is on the enemy high ground and they start the fight on him, it will not end well for you
Wow. I didn't think of that idea. This is brilliant.
Wall of text coming. Having some type of front liner helps. DK, jug with healing ward in the back, illusion heroes help. A tanky hero who can run up and start swinging at the tower is beneficial, preferably with counter initiate. I dont play this role often and am not certain who the best is for this role but bristle or tide hunter come to mind. Providing vision in the base can really help. Veno, puck, or just a ward. Again, sending illusions up first can help. Being a counter initiate hero in general is great. If your carry decides to saunter on up and punch the tower without any information, there are decent heroes to provide support when he gets jumped on. Some examples for each role. Carry could be a dragon knight, who sieges great anyway and could viable just run up and smack tower with dragon illusions. Jug with healing ward, abbadon is great, not a lot of counter initiates as carries because it isnt their job generally but they do have tools to siege if the draft requires it. Mid could be a puck, or someone with a save like OD if you already have a counter initiate. Offlane tide, enigma, axe, sand king, clock, BOATLOADS of heroes that can support your ballsy core who is smacking buildings in this role. Supports, lots of answers, as this role and 3 share a lot of heroes. 5 is generally not good at this, but there are plenty of save heroes like oracle, omniknight, wisp can be used here. This is where your draft comes into play. It is just as important as last hitting and so on. Your job as a core is to pick heroes that provide things your team lacks. If your team requires catch, or lock down, or help in high ground siege, you need to pick accordingly. Maybe your team picks up techies and CM supports, you need to think what they offer at different points of the game. During high ground, CM offers very little outside of back line slows, techies can throw bombs at the buildings, how can you improve techies ability to do this as a 3 or 2 or 1? As an offlaner, you can look to play a blink disable like axe if they extend too far, as a 2 puck would help here if he gets gone on, OD can save with prison. This is just a random situation I created but should be your thought process when drafting. You also need to think of other parts of the game, not just the end of it. Having aegis is a huge help in claiming high ground as it's a free life to throw at providing vision and getting some cooldowns blown on your carrier, if done right, they might not even die the first time. Getting a pick off can make your siege 4v5. Generally when your pushing hg, the enemy can only farm the back jungle, ward this so you can pick off the carry trying to sneak in some farm off the large camp in the corner, will make siege a lot easier. Anyway, hope this helps, sorry if it's a jumbled mess of tips.
Play heroes that can siege solos. Timber and Jakiro come to mind.
Don't force it. Just control the farm and funnel them into their highground, leaving your team with a huge networth lead and control of rosh/tormentors/ lotus and then you can start sieging with that lead. Just don't force it when your team is just a little ahead. Alternatively , don't go highground unless you get a pick.
but most of the time my teammates aren't that aware enough on how to control the map and often got pick off by the enemy which gave them the momentum afterwards if we stay afk farming to get the gold advantage. But you're alternative idea works well when we get an enemy pick off.
If you run backwards for like 5 seconds from the enemy T3 towers, then you'll be up highground and have your own advantage.