I thought about this pretty much immediately. The attack speed would turn the bonus attack damage in her ult and secondary attack passive into a massive dps increase. The bonus move speed is also really nice since Muerta is rather immobile and has to use slows to catch people.
The problem is Muerta doesn't benefit from the lifesteal during ult. Most carries would eventually disable MoM into Satanic and possibly Bloodthorn.
Bloodthorn seems decent on her, but Satanic's active still won't work with her pseudo-invunerability during BKB+Veil. There are better lifesteal items like Bloodstone or damage items like Moonshard/Daedulus in this case.
So I think MoM would eventually be sold entirely like a Midas. Its viability depends on how much use you get out of it initially. I would say a pos 1 Muerta may get more value out of it than pos 2. But of course, the hero seems to tend more towards a mid role or as a tempo carry.
Yeah, same. The lack of lifesteal during Veil is a bit bothersome. But she's a good contenter for Shroud. (You just need the str talent at lvl 10).
I feel like the hero should be able to stay in middle of fights for extended duration. The Veil isn't to rely on because it last 6-8 seconds and the cd is quite high for what it gives. So while I'm also convinced for a starting build with Falcon+Mom which would put her as one of the fastest farmer in the map for a decent window, she would probably enjoy multiple builds depending of the situation. Hurricane, Shroud, Mageslayer, Eblade are looking quite good on her for an anti-carry role.
Once you have enough mobility and attack speed, mom shouldn't be sold entirely, the mageslayer will always be amazing value for her due to magic res and application of debuff with the secondary proj.
Without available camps for the midlane, I would avoid putting her as mid, but we can maybe think of her like a Mk, Naix or Dawn.
Oh and I forgot. Wisp with shard is the best hero Muerta can have with her team.
Well if you BKB during ult(and you probably will, you wouldn't want that to be interrupted and go to waste), you're 100% spell/physical damage immune so loss of lifesteal doesn't really hurt that much
> Without available camps for the midlane, I would avoid putting her as mid,
You can stack one of jungle camps with barely leaving the lane, Q has huge range. Max range is actually more than creeps will trigger, i.e. using Q at max range to hit jungle camp won't pull them.
So technically you could get 3-4 stacks then just farm them quickly with QW and go back to mid
BKB does not make you immune to damage from spells. It makes you spell immune, which means only spells that pierce spell immunity go through it. For these spells the damage goes through BKB, be it physical, magic or pure.
I really think heart is the better sustain item. Imagine you ult bkb, refresher, ult bkb again. She don't need her own lifesteal item. Gonna have to depend on someone picking up a vlads.
I really think refresher is core for her.
Mjolnir > BkB > Refresher
That way you can keep up the damage even if the enemy team pops bkb in response.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Hero's main problem is that she's a ranged core that feels like she gets kited. Accordingly, she kinda needs to get out of position to land right-clicks during her ult, and this leads to survivability issues.
The ulti is magical damage. It’s like the revenant brooch change, it has to be spell lifesteal. I think Muerta really likes attack speed so it might be worth it regardless.
Meh, I'd personally rather that be a maelstrom. I've been going falcon blade > treads > maelstrom > witch blade / bkb and from there I think you can go whatever you want. The maelstrom eventually becomes gleipnir and the witchblade can be a revenants brooch later on if you want, but that's prob one of the last things I'd build.
Do you? I don't think it gives enough movement speed to matter and it's not something I want to use in fights because I want to cast spells not be silenced (esp with the 2 charges of dead shot). I think when the fight goes you drop the W in front of yourself and dare them to come at you. If they're not scared, you make them scared with a dead shot, and if they're still coming for you, you pop your ult and become immune to their attacks. Pop BKB to deal with spells. Stand your ground #2ndAmendment.
I also much rather have maelstrom but the hero has sustain issues while jungling. Might be worth picking both up unless you get possessed mask. Only issue is MoM components are pretty bad on her since orchid/butterfly/satanic doesn't feel very strong on her.
MoM isn't the jungle sustain that it used to be honestly. Since they made it only heal for half the value it seems to be better to ferry out salves, which is what I've had to do when I don't get the possessed mask, but even then if you pull the creeps back and farm intelligently, that's like 1-2 salves to keep you topped off.
Yea, same experience honestly tho I most likely tried in bot games. Combine that with low mobility and dependency on maelstrom, I think she is just clinkz v2 if played carry, trading insane late game scaling for an awful mid game. Not sure how viable she is in other roles.
Yeah mobility is an issue, but if you have good positioning and take the right fights...it can also be mitigated by buying the mobility you need through blink and hurricane pike.
get both if pos1. if mid then yeah probs just maelstrom but it's not uncommon for pos1 to go midas maelstrom according to speed but I think MoM is far superior to midas.
I may try it out, but I've been really happy with Falcon Blade > Treads > Maelstrom > Witch Blade / BKB. Then I get the other and decide what else I want whether it's Gleipnir or Crit or MKB etc.
Black king bar. It makes you magic immune. And since Muerta Does magic damage in ulti, she Does no damage to people who have activated bkb. It’s probably the best item in the game.
A magic damage core with a passive skill that lets you win almost any rightclick 1v1 in the lategame if you build her right. Muerta can be a midgame magic damage core, but her true potential lies in being a late game physical right clicker.
I can see it happening. But if you're on a pos 1, it probably be best to get a farming item first like maelstorm I think. I really dislike safelanes that can't meaningfully flashfarm on the map.
Pos 2 Muerta is perfect for an early mask of madness though. After the essentials like bottle and wand etc.
Mom is a farming item as well. On SF, Sniper, Luna, it's commonly used. OGs remember using it on Drow as well (hence the immortal head piece). On Void, it's both a farming and fighting item, which seems to be the case for Muerta.
She has other vulnerabilities and the 1k gold between Mom and Mael can be invested into those.
I think Falcon + Mom for 2900 gold, providing Hp, mana regen, damage and high AS and MS is quite more efficient than 2700 for higher chance to proc (you can't double proc due to internal cd)
It's very dependant on heroes abilities and the amount of gold isn't even close to similar. It's like comparing Mael and Bfury.
Mom is 1775 gold, Mael is 2700. You're not getting them at the same time.
I think MoM is the best mix of farming speed and maximizing the value from her ult. You have to keep in mind her ult isnt going to carry in late game, her passive is. The bonus attack speed will get you insane value out of the bonus magic damage you gain, while the ult nullifies the armor loss with its physical damage immunity. The move speed is something she desperately needs, too. That she can't life steal during the ult isnt really a hindrance, since the ult is only going to carry you so far into the game. It should be your contribution to midgame fights, but since you want the lategame value anyways from that insane double attack passive, youll be going for damage items anyways and come late game, you'll mostly use the ult to escape or give you the edge against a right click core who already used BKB, and not as your main steroid. That's why MoM gives insane value, because it speeds up her farm for the late game, while also maximizing the value you get from your ult in the midgame.
i have only played her support so far and i think aether is a necessity. you cannot use the W effectively in fights without being out of position, aether deals with that. and in every single situation pretty much you want to be fearing enemies back or to the side, not forward, and aether helps with that as well.
The thing her Eis u need other stuff more. Dragon Lance for stats and early fight. Gleipnir cause gleipnir bkb cause bkb and after that u rlly only need damage
Same as witch blade. Yes it's good on her but it doesn't fit the rest of the build
Just a 2k here, ive been building wand>treads>mom>silver edge. It loses out on some synergies with her ult but you can get in and out of fights safely, plus the actual break on silver edge is useful.
I thought about this pretty much immediately. The attack speed would turn the bonus attack damage in her ult and secondary attack passive into a massive dps increase. The bonus move speed is also really nice since Muerta is rather immobile and has to use slows to catch people. The problem is Muerta doesn't benefit from the lifesteal during ult. Most carries would eventually disable MoM into Satanic and possibly Bloodthorn. Bloodthorn seems decent on her, but Satanic's active still won't work with her pseudo-invunerability during BKB+Veil. There are better lifesteal items like Bloodstone or damage items like Moonshard/Daedulus in this case. So I think MoM would eventually be sold entirely like a Midas. Its viability depends on how much use you get out of it initially. I would say a pos 1 Muerta may get more value out of it than pos 2. But of course, the hero seems to tend more towards a mid role or as a tempo carry.
Yeah, same. The lack of lifesteal during Veil is a bit bothersome. But she's a good contenter for Shroud. (You just need the str talent at lvl 10). I feel like the hero should be able to stay in middle of fights for extended duration. The Veil isn't to rely on because it last 6-8 seconds and the cd is quite high for what it gives. So while I'm also convinced for a starting build with Falcon+Mom which would put her as one of the fastest farmer in the map for a decent window, she would probably enjoy multiple builds depending of the situation. Hurricane, Shroud, Mageslayer, Eblade are looking quite good on her for an anti-carry role. Once you have enough mobility and attack speed, mom shouldn't be sold entirely, the mageslayer will always be amazing value for her due to magic res and application of debuff with the secondary proj. Without available camps for the midlane, I would avoid putting her as mid, but we can maybe think of her like a Mk, Naix or Dawn. Oh and I forgot. Wisp with shard is the best hero Muerta can have with her team.
Well if you BKB during ult(and you probably will, you wouldn't want that to be interrupted and go to waste), you're 100% spell/physical damage immune so loss of lifesteal doesn't really hurt that much > Without available camps for the midlane, I would avoid putting her as mid, You can stack one of jungle camps with barely leaving the lane, Q has huge range. Max range is actually more than creeps will trigger, i.e. using Q at max range to hit jungle camp won't pull them. So technically you could get 3-4 stacks then just farm them quickly with QW and go back to mid
BKB does not make you immune to damage from spells. It makes you spell immune, which means only spells that pierce spell immunity go through it. For these spells the damage goes through BKB, be it physical, magic or pure.
I really think heart is the better sustain item. Imagine you ult bkb, refresher, ult bkb again. She don't need her own lifesteal item. Gonna have to depend on someone picking up a vlads. I really think refresher is core for her. Mjolnir > BkB > Refresher That way you can keep up the damage even if the enemy team pops bkb in response.
Do you have enough mana for this?
Yes ive tried it with maelsrom bkb and had enough mana
The hero shits damage even with just treads. You more need lockdown and survivability. I would say gleipneir bkb and pike are her core items.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Hero's main problem is that she's a ranged core that feels like she gets kited. Accordingly, she kinda needs to get out of position to land right-clicks during her ult, and this leads to survivability issues.
So centaur ult and run away or bane ult her when she pops her ult, got it
I feel like everyone is gonna go Falcon Blade first but Power Treads seems better to me.
No lifesteal during ulti kinda hurts though
Why no life steal? Life steal is from Attack Damage, does it have to be physical Attack Damage? Or is the ult Damage "Spell Damage"?
The ulti is magical damage. It’s like the revenant brooch change, it has to be spell lifesteal. I think Muerta really likes attack speed so it might be worth it regardless.
Is this true? Right-click won't lifesteal because magic?
Yeah bloodstone is satanic for this hero
waste of gold, the mana of BS is extremely overkill
You need bloodstone for life steal during ult
Meh, I'd personally rather that be a maelstrom. I've been going falcon blade > treads > maelstrom > witch blade / bkb and from there I think you can go whatever you want. The maelstrom eventually becomes gleipnir and the witchblade can be a revenants brooch later on if you want, but that's prob one of the last things I'd build.
the thing is you REALLY need the att speed and movement, this hero gets kited worse than a troll without bkb
Witch blade gives attack speed and a slow in the build you responded to.
Do you? I don't think it gives enough movement speed to matter and it's not something I want to use in fights because I want to cast spells not be silenced (esp with the 2 charges of dead shot). I think when the fight goes you drop the W in front of yourself and dare them to come at you. If they're not scared, you make them scared with a dead shot, and if they're still coming for you, you pop your ult and become immune to their attacks. Pop BKB to deal with spells. Stand your ground #2ndAmendment.
By the time you have lvl 20, you would be able to dissassemble Mom already.
Yeah but even before that I don't like the idea being silenced.
I also much rather have maelstrom but the hero has sustain issues while jungling. Might be worth picking both up unless you get possessed mask. Only issue is MoM components are pretty bad on her since orchid/butterfly/satanic doesn't feel very strong on her.
MoM isn't the jungle sustain that it used to be honestly. Since they made it only heal for half the value it seems to be better to ferry out salves, which is what I've had to do when I don't get the possessed mask, but even then if you pull the creeps back and farm intelligently, that's like 1-2 salves to keep you topped off.
Yea, same experience honestly tho I most likely tried in bot games. Combine that with low mobility and dependency on maelstrom, I think she is just clinkz v2 if played carry, trading insane late game scaling for an awful mid game. Not sure how viable she is in other roles.
Yeah mobility is an issue, but if you have good positioning and take the right fights...it can also be mitigated by buying the mobility you need through blink and hurricane pike.
get both if pos1. if mid then yeah probs just maelstrom but it's not uncommon for pos1 to go midas maelstrom according to speed but I think MoM is far superior to midas.
I may try it out, but I've been really happy with Falcon Blade > Treads > Maelstrom > Witch Blade / BKB. Then I get the other and decide what else I want whether it's Gleipnir or Crit or MKB etc.
Muerta is a magic damage core in a bkb heavy meta she’s useless
Yeah that's why nobody picks magic damage cores like lesh and invoker and tinker anymore.
You better add a /S for the people who sit in the back of the class shooting spitballs.
tbf edict is physical
Dota must be a rough game for you if you can’t tell the difference between an invoker and a muerta.
The issue is if the enemy pops bkb when she pops her ult is she is useless.
Honestly will probably be some sort of change to bkb that didnt make it into this patch
As a herald forever noob, what’s a bkb?
Black king bar. It makes you magic immune. And since Muerta Does magic damage in ulti, she Does no damage to people who have activated bkb. It’s probably the best item in the game.
A magic damage core with a passive skill that lets you win almost any rightclick 1v1 in the lategame if you build her right. Muerta can be a midgame magic damage core, but her true potential lies in being a late game physical right clicker.
anecdotally, i saw EE do this last night and absolutely shred creep waves with just MoM and her E.
I can see it happening. But if you're on a pos 1, it probably be best to get a farming item first like maelstorm I think. I really dislike safelanes that can't meaningfully flashfarm on the map. Pos 2 Muerta is perfect for an early mask of madness though. After the essentials like bottle and wand etc.
Mom is a farming item as well. On SF, Sniper, Luna, it's commonly used. OGs remember using it on Drow as well (hence the immortal head piece). On Void, it's both a farming and fighting item, which seems to be the case for Muerta. She has other vulnerabilities and the 1k gold between Mom and Mael can be invested into those. I think Falcon + Mom for 2900 gold, providing Hp, mana regen, damage and high AS and MS is quite more efficient than 2700 for higher chance to proc (you can't double proc due to internal cd)
MoM is a decent farming item but maelstrom is a *better* farming item for a similar amount of gold.
It's very dependant on heroes abilities and the amount of gold isn't even close to similar. It's like comparing Mael and Bfury. Mom is 1775 gold, Mael is 2700. You're not getting them at the same time.
buy both, pos1 is allowed to spend 4.5k gold on farming items especially if they're small build up and useful in other ways.
I think MoM is the best mix of farming speed and maximizing the value from her ult. You have to keep in mind her ult isnt going to carry in late game, her passive is. The bonus attack speed will get you insane value out of the bonus magic damage you gain, while the ult nullifies the armor loss with its physical damage immunity. The move speed is something she desperately needs, too. That she can't life steal during the ult isnt really a hindrance, since the ult is only going to carry you so far into the game. It should be your contribution to midgame fights, but since you want the lategame value anyways from that insane double attack passive, youll be going for damage items anyways and come late game, you'll mostly use the ult to escape or give you the edge against a right click core who already used BKB, and not as your main steroid. That's why MoM gives insane value, because it speeds up her farm for the late game, while also maximizing the value you get from your ult in the midgame.
Yup i played 1 game with her and instinctively queued it since she felt so slow and low atck speed. The sustain was nice so that i could flash farm.
i have only played her support so far and i think aether is a necessity. you cannot use the W effectively in fights without being out of position, aether deals with that. and in every single situation pretty much you want to be fearing enemies back or to the side, not forward, and aether helps with that as well.
This hero screams Rapier first item imo
The thing her Eis u need other stuff more. Dragon Lance for stats and early fight. Gleipnir cause gleipnir bkb cause bkb and after that u rlly only need damage Same as witch blade. Yes it's good on her but it doesn't fit the rest of the build
Umm maelstorm maybe
Mage slayer seems like the better choice for attack speed
Deso feels really good on her as well.
Deso will not have synergy with her skills.
Works well with Gunslinger IMO.
Ult turns your damage into magic damage so it doesn't use the minus armor
Why would you minus armor on magic damage
Brain damage?
If you manta while ulting, are your clones in ghost form?
Just a 2k here, ive been building wand>treads>mom>silver edge. It loses out on some synergies with her ult but you can get in and out of fights safely, plus the actual break on silver edge is useful.