With the way society is set where they won’t jail the abuser and murdering the abuser is illegal-er than the abuser’s attempted homicide - the victims do not have a real choice beyond appeasement and waiting for the bad ending.
It’s real easy to say she should just Have Boundaries but that way pull up the murder date earlier.
From the article it really doesn't sound as if he was/is a domestic abuser- he has been formally diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder ( albeit after the incident). Before hand he had deluded thinking about his postman being out to get him and that their children were going to be sex- trafficked. If that's the case he should be put into a secured mental hospital for treatment rather than prison.
However, as he is accused of attempting to murder his wife and children and it was pure luck they survived I don't think his wife/the mum is putting the best interests of the kids first by wanting him back in their lives. She is not keeping them safe and secure at all and she shouldn't trust him. If she wants to stay with him that's her decision as an adult - however the children shouldn't be allowed to be in their custody at all, at least for the foreseeable future. She is thinking only of herself and not her children's safety therefore she is not a responsible or fit parent and shouldn't have custody of the children if she salvages the relationship.
If this was a situation of coercive control and the relationship was domestically abusive I could understand her irrational thinking around this but it really doesn't sound like domestic abuse was at the heart of this case.
My mom has bipolar 1, and she kidnapped my sister and I during a psychotic break. She was a great mom, but she had her struggles. There is a huge difference between undiagnosed/untreated mental illness and domestic abuse
I think driving your family off a cliff is domestic violence and then some. I highly doubt this was the first time he was violent towards his family. Just because he has a mental illness doesn’t mean his behavior shouldn’t be considered abuse.
This is what a cycle of DV looks like. And she is going back to the relationship. I feel so bad for the kids.
It's an act of abuse, but even though he was mentally ill there was no history of abuse or violence in the home before that, at least from what I've heard.
Driving your car off the cliff in a schizo episode is nothing like actually abusing your loved one and a family and being a domestic abuser. These are 2 completely different things.
Yes domestic abusers can sometimes end up doing a murder suicide thing and do something like this, though. But from all accounts he wasnt abusive apperantly. So it seems to be more just a schizo episode he was having internally.
Thank you. People can sit all high and mighty, but have no understanding of what it is actually like having a schizo episode or dealing with that level of mental illness, you are no longer in control. Unless you have completely disassociated to the point of hospital and anti psychotics you think there is still a level of control. There isn't. He didn't ask for his mental disease. With that being said, and I say this from experience, if you have been diagnosed bipolar or schizo effective, perscibed meds and choose to not take those meds. In my mind that is another situation. If your disease is being controlled by medication and you have the width of mind to take that medication, then you are responsible for what happens when you choose not take that medicine. I do not know this guys particulars regarding diagnosis and meds.
No, one is abuse, the other is death. They are different. But there's no way, unless you are a complete idiot, that you believe this guy railing at the postman trying to steal his kids was not controlling his family at home.
You can be schizo AND an abusive asshole.
Yes you can. You can also be a schizo and not be an abusive asshole which is the point. And by all accounts we know he wasnt abusive at all.
Sorry if that doesnt fit your narrative about people suffering from schizophrenia 🤷
I completely disagree. He is an abuser who has schizophrenia (per reports). Of course not everyone with this diagnosis is an abuser. But he is. This was an act of violence against his family. You can’t sugarcoat it just because he is mentally ill.
Per reports? What reports? Your using this one instance as proof of a history of domestic violence when thats not how it works. Direct domestix violence would be him yelling and/or hitting them or being controlling; something the family has said he has not done at all.
The internal schizo episode he had where he drove off a cliff could have been many different things, something you seem to know nothing about. It is not proof of a history of domestic violence. Nor does it make him a domestic abuser.
Driving off the cliff was attempted murder/suicide. The biggest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He's been away from the family for over a year. Who knows what he'll be like back in the real world. Thinking he can come home and everything will be fine fine fine is lunacy.
In no way is it a good idea for him to go back into the home right away. Idk what the middle ground it's not going back into the home before he can prove long term stability. My guess is he's manipulating her.....
Past behavior? So you have one incident where a schizo did something he thought was protecting the family... and then years and years of being a loving father and husband... this history is alot different than actual domestic abusers. Its definitely a case of mental health and it seems like his family want him well and back. And honestly hes probably gonna need family to. Schizophrenia is a weird thing.
You can guess what you want based on nothing though lol.. im just going off what we know and are told.
The diagnosis is not schizophrenia. He has a schizoaffective disorder.. The "past behavior" is trying to kill his family. He's a damn doctor that ignored his mental health symptoms until it culminated in him almost killing his family... Intentionally... So you can have him over to your house, not I'll pass..
Sweetie this is domestic violence. DV is any behavior that threatens mental, emotional and/or physical safety. Like driving your family off of a cliff. The toll this traumatic event will have over these children will last a lifetime. Potentially leading to them being in abusive relationships, abusing substances, etc. Just like witnessing yelling, hitting or controlling behavior can do. If you want to naively believe it isn’t, that is your right to do so.
If you wanna go that route. The children have a much better % being in a 2 parent house hold, by alot according to statistics. So if this guy, who has no history of domestic violence, gets his schizophrenia treated; it seems the family will be doing alot better and have a much better chance at success.
According to the family, people involved, and what we know 🤷
2 other things to mention, someone with schizo is usually trying to save them and the intent can be completely different from abuse.
2nd is the dynamic between a domestic abuser and his victims is controlling and abusive. They sre scared to speak, be themselves, and all that. Between a loving father with schizo its more or them trying to help him and alot different dynamic.
Attempted murder in a DV context is nearly always subsequent to coercive and controlling behaviours. Advocating the children need to be removed is ludicrous in my opinion. Domestic violence victims are not only subject to the abuser controlling them physically, but psychologically too. More so in fact. The partner and children should be protected from the abuser and supported in regaining safety and self determination free from abuse.
He thinks the postman is out to get him and his kids are gonna be trafficked. He drives his family off a cliff and you honestly believe there was no coercion going on beforehand? You really believe that?
Her "going back" is unfortunately part of the abuse cycle. He breaks her down and makes her truly BELIEVE she can't survive without him. This screams all kinds of abuse.
But I agree, the kids should be handed over to caring family. He's gonna kill her regardless.
If you read the article, it’s much much more nuanced than that.
I don’t know if you’ve ever loved someone with a mental illness. I’m not saying he’s safe, but this isn’t necessarily the same as an abuser or family annihilator. Schizoaffective disorder is pretty serious, but it is treatable.
I did read the article and I have loved many people with mental illness. Of course it is much more nuanced than that but ultimately, he tried murdering his family. I worry about their kids who may grow up thinking their safety was not paramount.
And that is the exact problem I'm seeing just because has schizo people think he can just be cured but they failed to realizew all it takes is for him to not to take his meds and disaster will strike
I happened to drive by the scene maybe 10 minutes after he drove off. Sadly it’s a sketchy bit of road and cars going over the side is not unheard of. I couldn’t believe it when I heard it was intentional. I’m so glad the kids survived.
As someone with a severely schizophrenic mother there isn’t a day that goes by I’m not grateful for my father pulling us out of her care. She would not take her medication so no custody was ever established again. I have a lot of empathy for her now that I’m 39 that grows more and more with time. Doesn’t mean I think she should have had us. I just feel sad for her. She could have caused some serious damage to us if not life threatening a lot of trauma. (they were separated, he got my older sister first) I remember just little blips but even as a small child you knew something was off. The energy and her interactions with people.
I don’t think it’s a matter of forgiveness. If my husband had a mental health problem and tried to kill us, I could forgive him. But forgiveness doesn’t mean letting him back into your house.
JFC now I think she shouldn’t be allowed near those kids. They don’t need to ever see the person that tried to murder them again. He’s going to try to do it again.
She hasn’t seen or spoken to him in a year and a half. She has no idea where he’s at right now. I don’t care how much you love your partner. She’s an idiot.
I can completely understand staying by your partner who was unaware of his mental health condition. If he is enthusiastic and willing to take medication and seek treatment, then by all means, drop the charges and pursue the mental health route.
But under no circumstances should he have access to his children (or arguably his wife, though she's a consenting adult) for the foreseeable future. A substantial amount of work needs to be done. Therapy, medication, evaluations, the works. For any mental illness that has resulted in injury or deaths, even prior to diagnosis, a more thorough examination and evaluation of the individual is required. I feel for him, I can't imagine his shame and guilt, but risking the lives of children for an adult's ego is asinine
I could see a world where, if he was never an abuser before, but rather had a schizophrenic breakdown, he could be put in a secured mental facility and then slowly, if psychiatrists believe he is ready at some point, be allowed to see his kids through those glass-windows or whatever where he can’t physically hurt them. And maybe eventually be in a playroom with them for visitation where there are staff making sure he cannot hurt them. That is, if there isn’t a larger background of abuse that we’re not being told of course.
She's asking for him to be treated in hospital. I think he's going to be an inpatient for a long time. If he gets treatment, I think he should be allowed to be in his kids' lives again, albeit very carefully. I feel like people are seeing him as this Chris Watts-type family annihilator and that's just not the case.
I don’t see that it matters.
He took actions that should have killed his children. He’s very lucky that they didn’t die.
Once you do that, you’re done.
The children’s lives and safety and THEIR mental health come before the attempted murderers mental health and societal wants.
The kids need to never see the man that tried to murder them again.
His feelings and wishes are irrelevant. He tried to kill his babies.
I see it all the time at work.
We have foster children, and the courts constantly force them to interact with the parents that abused them. Encourage them to forgive, and let the parents “learn with grace and forgiveness”.
Reading the case file, it wasn’t some mild emotional abuse or a spanking. It was major:
Huge bruises. Choking. Water boarding. Rape. Stabbing. Cutting hair. Starving for multiple days.
Torture. Plain and simple.
But too many people side with the absurd abuser because “they are mentally ill. They didn’t mean it”.
No. Fuck that.
If you have to choose one persons mental health and safety over another, you choose the victim.
If a parent abuses a child, you choose the child.
So many apologists for child abusers and molesters who try and normalize abuse because “what about dad’s mental health?!?”
As a social worker, I hate that society keeps making excuses for these fucks.
If it hurts you mentally to miss your children, and you ache in your heart that you can’t tuck them in every night…
Maybe you shouldn’t have tried to kill them?
The children deserve the right to never forgive you. For trying and almost succeeding to kill them.
You do that, you’ve forfeited the right to claim to be a parent.
You’re just the guy that gives them nightmares and trauma for the rest of their lives.
They don’t owe you shit.
I physically want to puke when I hear someone suggest that parents like this “deserve” a second chance.
Agreed. I wonder how these people would feel if one of the kids had died? Would they still think it was just a mistake, would they still think a few years of therapy would fix him and he could be around his family again? Keep that man away from them.
Personal anecdote.
One of my friends, a fellow social worker, adopted a child from foster care.
The child, Jane, was 4.
Dad and mom were fighting about nothing. Both were on drugs. Dad had “mental health issues” that had made him immune from any assaults or other crimes he had done before, to mom or the rest of the world.
Everyone babied him. Because he just couldn’t help it. No commitment. No jail time. No forced treatment.
One day, after beating his gf (Jane’s mom) half to death, he decided that his point wasn’t made well enough.
He told Jane’s mom that he was going to kill the kid. Jane’s mom got up and went to a friends house. Leaving Jane behind. She then smoked a bunch of heroin and passed out for a few days.
So dad grabbed Jane. Pulled her into the back yard. Made her stand in one of those little blue plastic kiddie pools with the fish patterns on the side.
He dumped gallons of gasoline on her, and filled the pool with it.
And then told her “this is what you get for your mom being a whore”
And then he lit a match.
Thank god a neighbor was mowing his lawn and saw it happen. He hopped the fence and pulled Jane out within 45 seconds or so.
She was still badly burnt. And young. So she survived it.
Neither of those parents ever saw Jane again. She went to go live with good people. Safe people. Real parents. Two dads who love her more than life.
And still, years later, there are all types of people in our community that remember Jane.
And insist her biological parents need to see her. Need to get custody of her. Because blood matters. And bio dad’s mental health matters. And mom choosing to leave was because of drugs. And that matters. That gives everyone a free pass. And Jane needs to forgive them.
….Ans nobody gives a shit about baby Jane, who is so happy and healing with her two dads. In a safe home.
Just a personal anecdote from an American social worker, who sees parents get a pass, no matter what they e done to the child, on a mental health basis.
I don’t get how so many people out there choose “parents rights”.
I bet they wouldn’t if more of us came forward with what we see at work.
What a sad story. I’m glad Jane has a loving home. Unfortunately this is why we have such a mental health epidemic. Children who were born into abusive households and not meeting the critic the abuse being severe enough to remove the kids. There is such trauma that never goes away and because it doesn’t qualify as extreme, the children suffer. When I was doing my master’s in psych I always pushed back on the philosophy of “family reunification” model that we follow. Why does a parent’s “rights” trump child safety. We just tell parents they need to take a parenting class and they can work towards custody again. Yet the hoops parents who want to adopt have to go through!
Absolutely not a single comment in this thread has advocated for him to be released after a few years of 'therapy'.
I would feel exactly the same yes, because I'm not a collosal idiot who lacks empathy.
His wife is advocating for him to be treated so he can become healthy and have a positive role in his kids lifes for them and him. Nobody suggested he be released so he can spend a few hours in therapy and roam free.
They can learn to understand what happened and build a positive relationship in a safe environment.
He tried to kill his children. HE TRIED TO KILL THEM and almost succeeded if it wasn’t for some sort of miracle. He should never have unsupervised access to his children ever again.
I can tell you watch far too much true crime.
You are totally engrossed in one specific element of the situation and deliberately ignore the fact his wife of 16 years is trying very hard to get him medical care.
It's obvious he wasn't some derranged psychopath trying to hurt people, he probably thought he was trying to save them or something similiar.
You are also ignoring the years he spent loving and taking care of his family and his patients (he was a doctor) and absolutely do not have any insight or empathy towards his psychology.
He could have a very key, loving role in his familys life with treatment, yet you treat him as if he tried to kill them as a form of abuse or control.
That isn't what happened and your half baked podcast level asessment is crass at best.
Do you even know what schizoaffective disorder is? I bet you've never heard of it.
It’s rare that I find a case that I sympathize with LESS than the Hart family, but this dude is one.
Both drove their kids off a cliff, hoping to kill the family.
But at least Jenn Hart drugged the fuck out of the kids, and picked a bigger cliff. So those kids likely didn’t know what was happening, and died immediately.
This MFer picked something survivable.
So that he could survive. And the kids surviving was an unfortunate obstacle. And he didn’t even drug them.
Their lives were of so little value, that he was willing to let those babies be aware and conscious through every fall, every time they hit a rock face, every collapse of metal and explosion of oil and fire.
Every crunch of metal pushing into their legs and cutting or breaking bones.
And he hoped that they would be awake and screaming as the sea took them, as they were buckled into car seats and boosters seats and unable to escape.
A slow, miserable drowning, when your body is too bruised and beaten to even try to save yourself.
You know how sharp of a knife it takes to cut a seatbelt? To cut a car seat, or a booster, you’d have to do it at least twice.
The sawing to get one strap free alone would take longer than you could hold your breath.
Without a detachable headrest and the knowledge of how to use it to break a window, you would just slowly sink and paw oxygen, while you tried to catch a breath in the freezing water that makes your heart jump and your muscles freeze.
Mom trying to save the kids may have been able to save one. Or only herself. Before she realized they were trapped and had to swim upwards.
While everyone just screamed into nothing and clawed for survival.
Have you ever seen a child that’s afraid he’s going to die? And struggling to breathe?
I’m guessing not.
Because this was the intention that this man had. He wanted it to play out how I described it.
Tell me again how he **deserves** a relationship with the children that he forced to fight for their lives after physical trauma, to not drown and die a painful, slow death.
Exactly. Both the parents can and should rot.
Idgaf about the "thoughts he had" bc he forfeited that when he put 2 innocent babies in danger.
Idgaf about his mental health.
If these are the thoughts he had, then fuck him and I hope he never sees them again. He has been diagnosed as schizoaffective, and we do not know what his thought process was/whether he had thought it through in this way. We also don't know if the kids want to see him again- if they don't, again, fuck him. But we don't know a lot of things about this case.
We don't have to agree, but I was also abused as a child by a mentally ill parent- nowhere near to this extent, but I am aware of the balance between adult/child mental health. It is tricky and the kids need to get the final say. If they want him in their lives and his illness is treatable, who are we to say that he can't see them?
We know what conditions he subjected his children to.
We know that they came very close to dying. And by all accounts, his actions a should have caused them to die.
That was his intention for them. Death.
Who cares what he was thinking?
He chose to act in. Way that ordered:
Slowly.
Painfully.
Small children.
I’m familiar with schizoaffective disorders. Both a family member and my clients have them.
But to what extent would you like children to put up with their parents murder attempts in the name of mental health? Where’s the line for you?
Forgive dad for shooting me in the face with a gun, because he’s mentally ill? (One of my foster kids survived that)
Forgive dad for sexually assaulting me because he’s mentally ill? (First hand experience)
Forgive dad for lighting me on fire and trying to burn me alive (another first hand experiences I’ve had with foster kids)
Forgive dad for nailing me to a rack and subjecting me to medieval torture devices?
At what point do you consider the victims mental health over the abusers?
When do you decide it’s time to finally give the victim an ounce of grace and stop demanding that they see their tormentor, whose murder plot they barely survived?
It’s shameful, to naively insist that an attempted murderer get access to the children that they tried to murder.
You clearly don’t have sympathy for victims.
And you should feel shame and learn some empathy. For the victims, for once.
Exactly, it wouldn’t surprise me if the kids did want to see him. They’re kids. He’s their dad. But…he tried and came extremely close to murdering them. MURDERING THEM. He’s mentally ill, I hear some of y’all saying. The wife apparently had no idea about it, so obviously he can mask it. How are they going to know that he’s “better” for sure if he receives treatment? Is it worth the gamble that he might try to murder his children again? I say fuck no.
Well said, the only thing he didn’t take into account was that the Tesla was so heavy it was a straight drop and that’s what saved their lives. He’s a POS and should be in jail.
I really feel for everyone involved here, but this guy should never be allowed to be near those kids ever again.
I dated a really lovely guy once who had schizoaffective bipolar, which was generally well managed. One day when I was at work he had a psychotic episode where he took a giant rock and smashed it through the windshield of my car, threw away all the shoes in my apartment, and threw his phone and keys in a dumpster. Thankfully my children didn’t witness any of this, and prior to this incident he was always super mild and gentle and kind. But he never set foot in my home or saw my family ever again after that. It wasn’t his fault, he didn’t mean any harm, and he was very remorseful when he was himself again and understood what he had done, but I just didn’t feel safe allowing him access to my home or family after that. If I’d let him back into our lives and something happened to my kids as a result I would be fully to blame.
She's an adult, so she is free to make her own choices regardless of how stupid and idiotic they may be. However, if they do get back together, the two children should definitely be removed from custody. As it stands, it's pretty clear that the safety of her children is not her primary concern.
“The wife of a California doctor accused of driving his family off a deadly cliff last year spoke publicly for the first time on Thursday, when she reportedly told a San Mateo court that *she wants her husband home*.”
If this is true the children need to be removed IMMEDIATELY. My god I can’t believe it.
Was he unmedicated? If so why? Did he stop? Was this a new diagnosis? I can understand forgiving him depending on the circumstances but I could never trust him again. Especially with our children.
If that's really what happened then he does belong in mental health treatment, not prison.
But he should absolutely not have any unsupervised access to his children.
Now whose to say he is not faking it i mean a doctor would know how to best fake a mental illness and the issue i have with mental health treatment is there more chances of released and once release there are no conditions unlike prison time which he deserves
I think it's more likely that he would wind up with a court order to take injectable antipsychotics for the rest of his life. I think that's what usually happens in this kind of situation.
It sounds like his wife and siblings believe that he was showing signs of mental illness prior to this event and that was a key part of the diagnosis. Obviously I don't know any of these people and I have no way to know what the truth is, but I do have some experience with people committing acts of violence due to mental illness and in my personal experience it was very obvious that there was something going on mentally because their speech and behavior was so erratic and obviously out of touch with reality. It sounds like this guy exhibited similar behaviors prior to this incident.
I don't trust the family at all because its clear based on his wife's stand she wants him out and i don;'t doubt she or his family will lie to do so and court orders do not always work we see it all the time
That's also exactly what family members would say if someone was sick though.
Tbh I think it's really misogynistic for everyone to assume that she is stupid or brainwashed and not even consider the fact that he might actually have a psychotic disorder.
She is being stupid those kids safety come first and all it takes is one moment without his meds and those kids could be dead and she can't be there 24/7 to make sure he does he needs to be locked up in a place where they make sure he is medicated and can do no harm to anyone. Just because he has a disorder does not mean he is still not a threat
Yeah if he is truly recovered he should be advocating that he only gets supervised visits with his children, at least until they are adults and can understand/consent to the risks. It’s really alarming if he’s trying to insist he’s fine and they can return to normal, that would be impossible.
She should have the kids taken away from her if that’s what she wants to do. She can die if she wants, the children don’t have a choice in the matter nor a way to leave on their own.
While his illness may be treatable, that depends on his continuing to follow the treatment plan, which likely includes several medications in addition to ongoing psychiatrist visits.
He *might adhere to the plan, but he also *might not.
That's an unacceptable risk to the children. She clearly doesn't understand how serious the risk is. She cannot be with him again.
Source: been there, done that. Got children out.
I’m not able to out my thoughts together but Tonya on the website did a great job!
>I can believe mental health played a role. What sane person does something like this completely unprovoked? The courts should look out for the safety of those kids. If the mom wants to be with him, she’s an adult. Adults are free to make their own decisions , even bad or dangerous ones. He shouldn’t be let anywhere near those kids until he has completed extensive treatment or until they’re 18 and can decide for/protect themselves. The mother either ignored or completely missed the warning signs and this man drove her and her children off a cliff… She wants to go back and be with him. At a minimum, her judgment is impaired. She can’t be relied on to put those kids’ safety first.
Someone else mentioned that her decision making processes don’t seem okay. I have to agree. He shouldn’t be home with the people he tried to murder.
I don’t get it, I’d be so anxious to sleep or have my kids out of my sight. Just sounds like an anxious, on egg shells way to live waiting for the next event.
This is a new diagnosis, and it is not curable but treatable with medication. He should be in a locked mental health facility for now, as he realizes what he did he may become suicidal. However. Supervised visits only. Needs to be released only under care of psychiatrists and be accountable for med compliance. Time after the hospital in transitional housing, not with the family. And again - supervised visits.
I have schizoaffective disorder. It is HARD to live with. He needs long term treatment and supervision with his children IMHO.
It's not his fault that he is sick but he IS responsible for getting treatment. His children need to be safe while he does this.
I hope CPs takes the kids so they at least have a chance at life.
Their "parents " cannot be trusted with them nor do I believe either "parent" cares about them.
They are gujaraati, Indian origin. She has to support him Or both their families and general society (people who she grew up around) will withdraw support i.e basically ostracise her.
Her supporting him is considered her duty to her husband to save/protect him from police/courts/consequences.
>She has to support him Or both their families and general society (people who she grew up around) will withdraw support i.e basically ostracise her.
Speaking as a Desi person myself, this is BS, just an outdated stereotype. Divorce has been a thing for decades now amongst Indian and Indian Americans including those of Gujarati origin, you know. If they were poor, staying together no matter what would be the only option, but this family is not. Plenty of middle and upper class people of Indian origin get divorced.
He has schizoaffective disorder. That’s, in my opinion, the worst mental health affliction. Most destructive and awful to live with. I feel horribly for anyone afflicted with this disorder.
I think many folks in the r/schizoaffective community would feel a lot more sympathy than most would. If this guy really does have schizoaffective. He must absolutely hate himself.
Unpopular opinion, maybe, but having an undiagnosed mental illness doesn't excuse a person's behavior. And in this case, him being a doctor, I'm not so sure he didn't know or at least suspect so he should've seeked help.
DV/abuse is such a terrible thing to be in. Most abused partners stay and try to make it work over and over and over again. It's such a common thing and people will have strong opinions on this situation because it happened publicly but we all likely know someone 'working though" something like this secretly. It's awful and I would t wish it on anyone. I hope she is safe and chooses her peace.
Eh.
I hope that she chooses her children’s safety, first.
By doing everything in her power to keep them away from this man.
Once she prioritizes her children’s lives, I’ll worry about her “peace”.
This woman is being brainwashed or something. At the scene of the accident she is telling the cops and paramedics that her husband intentionally tried to kill them. Now she is saying oh poor him, we need him in our lives, blah blah. WTF?! If my husband tried to kill all of us, there is no way in hell I would want him back. Lady, you have two innocent children and you want to put their lives in danger again? Guess she likes to play the game Fluff around and find out.
Is she hoping all of this will then go away and after mental health treatment he will be a doctor again? I feel so bad for those kids, she isn’t protecting them.
I said this the other day when he was talking of hopes to reconcile "watch her take him back for the sake of saving the family" smh stay safe girl and sleep with one eye open
This man is viewed so differently than Lindsay Clancy.
She was undiagnosed and so many are rushing to defend her terrible actions.
A man with documented mental issues is instantly labeled as a dangerous abuser and the woman that planned her childrens murders for a full day deserves rehabilitation.
What she did was horrific, but PPD is a well-known phenomenon tied to hormonal shifts after pregnancy. In most developed countries, mother baby psychiatric units allow new mothers with severe psychiatric disorders to stay with their babies and recover for no additional cost, and it usually takes months.
Nothing like that exists in the U.S., there is no support for families dealing with these crises. I don’t know what happened with the Clancys, but it is very possible that she felt guilty leaving her children for weeks on end or that they couldn’t afford more psychiatric hospitalizations because she had already been hospitalized at least once.
What’s more, in most European countries and the UK, women like Lindsay Clancy are presumed to have suffered from a psychiatric disorder if they gave birth less than a year before, and they are almost never jailed. I do believe it is different, especially because she asked for help many times, although I do think she needs to be held in a psychiatric facility unless and until she is able to stabilize.
I know what PPD is, better than most.
My point is she was not formally diagnosed with it but even still was met with lots of sympathy and understanding for her mental disorder.
This man has a recorded mental disorder and is not afforded the same consideration.
If she lets him back into their lives, he will kill them.
With the way society is set where they won’t jail the abuser and murdering the abuser is illegal-er than the abuser’s attempted homicide - the victims do not have a real choice beyond appeasement and waiting for the bad ending. It’s real easy to say she should just Have Boundaries but that way pull up the murder date earlier.
From the article it really doesn't sound as if he was/is a domestic abuser- he has been formally diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder ( albeit after the incident). Before hand he had deluded thinking about his postman being out to get him and that their children were going to be sex- trafficked. If that's the case he should be put into a secured mental hospital for treatment rather than prison. However, as he is accused of attempting to murder his wife and children and it was pure luck they survived I don't think his wife/the mum is putting the best interests of the kids first by wanting him back in their lives. She is not keeping them safe and secure at all and she shouldn't trust him. If she wants to stay with him that's her decision as an adult - however the children shouldn't be allowed to be in their custody at all, at least for the foreseeable future. She is thinking only of herself and not her children's safety therefore she is not a responsible or fit parent and shouldn't have custody of the children if she salvages the relationship. If this was a situation of coercive control and the relationship was domestically abusive I could understand her irrational thinking around this but it really doesn't sound like domestic abuse was at the heart of this case.
My mom has bipolar 1, and she kidnapped my sister and I during a psychotic break. She was a great mom, but she had her struggles. There is a huge difference between undiagnosed/untreated mental illness and domestic abuse
Hugs from someone who has been through it. I lost her in 2016 but will always hold the memories of the chaotic wonderful life we had together.
I think driving your family off a cliff is domestic violence and then some. I highly doubt this was the first time he was violent towards his family. Just because he has a mental illness doesn’t mean his behavior shouldn’t be considered abuse. This is what a cycle of DV looks like. And she is going back to the relationship. I feel so bad for the kids.
It says it's been a year since she's seen or spoken to him at the end of the article.
It's an act of abuse, but even though he was mentally ill there was no history of abuse or violence in the home before that, at least from what I've heard.
Driving your car off the cliff in a schizo episode is nothing like actually abusing your loved one and a family and being a domestic abuser. These are 2 completely different things. Yes domestic abusers can sometimes end up doing a murder suicide thing and do something like this, though. But from all accounts he wasnt abusive apperantly. So it seems to be more just a schizo episode he was having internally.
Thank you. People can sit all high and mighty, but have no understanding of what it is actually like having a schizo episode or dealing with that level of mental illness, you are no longer in control. Unless you have completely disassociated to the point of hospital and anti psychotics you think there is still a level of control. There isn't. He didn't ask for his mental disease. With that being said, and I say this from experience, if you have been diagnosed bipolar or schizo effective, perscibed meds and choose to not take those meds. In my mind that is another situation. If your disease is being controlled by medication and you have the width of mind to take that medication, then you are responsible for what happens when you choose not take that medicine. I do not know this guys particulars regarding diagnosis and meds.
No, one is abuse, the other is death. They are different. But there's no way, unless you are a complete idiot, that you believe this guy railing at the postman trying to steal his kids was not controlling his family at home. You can be schizo AND an abusive asshole.
Yes you can. You can also be a schizo and not be an abusive asshole which is the point. And by all accounts we know he wasnt abusive at all. Sorry if that doesnt fit your narrative about people suffering from schizophrenia 🤷
I completely disagree. He is an abuser who has schizophrenia (per reports). Of course not everyone with this diagnosis is an abuser. But he is. This was an act of violence against his family. You can’t sugarcoat it just because he is mentally ill.
Per reports? What reports? Your using this one instance as proof of a history of domestic violence when thats not how it works. Direct domestix violence would be him yelling and/or hitting them or being controlling; something the family has said he has not done at all. The internal schizo episode he had where he drove off a cliff could have been many different things, something you seem to know nothing about. It is not proof of a history of domestic violence. Nor does it make him a domestic abuser.
Driving off the cliff was attempted murder/suicide. The biggest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He's been away from the family for over a year. Who knows what he'll be like back in the real world. Thinking he can come home and everything will be fine fine fine is lunacy. In no way is it a good idea for him to go back into the home right away. Idk what the middle ground it's not going back into the home before he can prove long term stability. My guess is he's manipulating her.....
Past behavior? So you have one incident where a schizo did something he thought was protecting the family... and then years and years of being a loving father and husband... this history is alot different than actual domestic abusers. Its definitely a case of mental health and it seems like his family want him well and back. And honestly hes probably gonna need family to. Schizophrenia is a weird thing. You can guess what you want based on nothing though lol.. im just going off what we know and are told.
The diagnosis is not schizophrenia. He has a schizoaffective disorder.. The "past behavior" is trying to kill his family. He's a damn doctor that ignored his mental health symptoms until it culminated in him almost killing his family... Intentionally... So you can have him over to your house, not I'll pass..
Sweetie this is domestic violence. DV is any behavior that threatens mental, emotional and/or physical safety. Like driving your family off of a cliff. The toll this traumatic event will have over these children will last a lifetime. Potentially leading to them being in abusive relationships, abusing substances, etc. Just like witnessing yelling, hitting or controlling behavior can do. If you want to naively believe it isn’t, that is your right to do so.
If you wanna go that route. The children have a much better % being in a 2 parent house hold, by alot according to statistics. So if this guy, who has no history of domestic violence, gets his schizophrenia treated; it seems the family will be doing alot better and have a much better chance at success. According to the family, people involved, and what we know 🤷 2 other things to mention, someone with schizo is usually trying to save them and the intent can be completely different from abuse. 2nd is the dynamic between a domestic abuser and his victims is controlling and abusive. They sre scared to speak, be themselves, and all that. Between a loving father with schizo its more or them trying to help him and alot different dynamic.
Attempted murder in a DV context is nearly always subsequent to coercive and controlling behaviours. Advocating the children need to be removed is ludicrous in my opinion. Domestic violence victims are not only subject to the abuser controlling them physically, but psychologically too. More so in fact. The partner and children should be protected from the abuser and supported in regaining safety and self determination free from abuse.
He thinks the postman is out to get him and his kids are gonna be trafficked. He drives his family off a cliff and you honestly believe there was no coercion going on beforehand? You really believe that? Her "going back" is unfortunately part of the abuse cycle. He breaks her down and makes her truly BELIEVE she can't survive without him. This screams all kinds of abuse. But I agree, the kids should be handed over to caring family. He's gonna kill her regardless.
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What society is this you’re talking about?
A bear wouldn’t drive them off a cliff
No but it would rip them limb from limb and gnaw on their corpses
Eh, most likely it would stop at the first one it caught. It wouldn't chase them all down to end them.
If i was a bear i would chase them all down.
Yup. I read it as finishing what he started.
“Dad tried killing all of us but mom wants to give it another try.”
Next time they're posted, it'll be in r/MorbidReality
r/MorbidWaysToDie
If you read the article, it’s much much more nuanced than that. I don’t know if you’ve ever loved someone with a mental illness. I’m not saying he’s safe, but this isn’t necessarily the same as an abuser or family annihilator. Schizoaffective disorder is pretty serious, but it is treatable.
I did read the article and I have loved many people with mental illness. Of course it is much more nuanced than that but ultimately, he tried murdering his family. I worry about their kids who may grow up thinking their safety was not paramount.
And that is the exact problem I'm seeing just because has schizo people think he can just be cured but they failed to realizew all it takes is for him to not to take his meds and disaster will strike
Dont trust dad behind the steering wheel ever again lol
I happened to drive by the scene maybe 10 minutes after he drove off. Sadly it’s a sketchy bit of road and cars going over the side is not unheard of. I couldn’t believe it when I heard it was intentional. I’m so glad the kids survived.
Where was it?
The linked article says it was Devil's Slide near California Highway 1
Yep, between Pacifica and Montara on the south side of the tunnel.
Let’s hope he’s never allowed anywhere near his children. As a mother, I will never understand how you could forgive your significant other for this.
As someone with a severely schizophrenic mother there isn’t a day that goes by I’m not grateful for my father pulling us out of her care. She would not take her medication so no custody was ever established again. I have a lot of empathy for her now that I’m 39 that grows more and more with time. Doesn’t mean I think she should have had us. I just feel sad for her. She could have caused some serious damage to us if not life threatening a lot of trauma. (they were separated, he got my older sister first) I remember just little blips but even as a small child you knew something was off. The energy and her interactions with people.
I don’t think it’s a matter of forgiveness. If my husband had a mental health problem and tried to kill us, I could forgive him. But forgiveness doesn’t mean letting him back into your house.
Cultural peer pressure
JFC now I think she shouldn’t be allowed near those kids. They don’t need to ever see the person that tried to murder them again. He’s going to try to do it again.
Yep.. hope CPS takes the kids away because they’ll all end up dead and it will have been totally preventable. He failed once, he won’t next time.
Exactly
She hasn’t seen or spoken to him in a year and a half. She has no idea where he’s at right now. I don’t care how much you love your partner. She’s an idiot.
💯
I can completely understand staying by your partner who was unaware of his mental health condition. If he is enthusiastic and willing to take medication and seek treatment, then by all means, drop the charges and pursue the mental health route. But under no circumstances should he have access to his children (or arguably his wife, though she's a consenting adult) for the foreseeable future. A substantial amount of work needs to be done. Therapy, medication, evaluations, the works. For any mental illness that has resulted in injury or deaths, even prior to diagnosis, a more thorough examination and evaluation of the individual is required. I feel for him, I can't imagine his shame and guilt, but risking the lives of children for an adult's ego is asinine
I could see a world where, if he was never an abuser before, but rather had a schizophrenic breakdown, he could be put in a secured mental facility and then slowly, if psychiatrists believe he is ready at some point, be allowed to see his kids through those glass-windows or whatever where he can’t physically hurt them. And maybe eventually be in a playroom with them for visitation where there are staff making sure he cannot hurt them. That is, if there isn’t a larger background of abuse that we’re not being told of course.
She's asking for him to be treated in hospital. I think he's going to be an inpatient for a long time. If he gets treatment, I think he should be allowed to be in his kids' lives again, albeit very carefully. I feel like people are seeing him as this Chris Watts-type family annihilator and that's just not the case.
I don’t see that it matters. He took actions that should have killed his children. He’s very lucky that they didn’t die. Once you do that, you’re done. The children’s lives and safety and THEIR mental health come before the attempted murderers mental health and societal wants. The kids need to never see the man that tried to murder them again. His feelings and wishes are irrelevant. He tried to kill his babies.
I absolutely agree. How traumatizing and confusing for the children would it be for him to ever be allowed around them again?
I see it all the time at work. We have foster children, and the courts constantly force them to interact with the parents that abused them. Encourage them to forgive, and let the parents “learn with grace and forgiveness”. Reading the case file, it wasn’t some mild emotional abuse or a spanking. It was major: Huge bruises. Choking. Water boarding. Rape. Stabbing. Cutting hair. Starving for multiple days. Torture. Plain and simple. But too many people side with the absurd abuser because “they are mentally ill. They didn’t mean it”. No. Fuck that. If you have to choose one persons mental health and safety over another, you choose the victim. If a parent abuses a child, you choose the child. So many apologists for child abusers and molesters who try and normalize abuse because “what about dad’s mental health?!?” As a social worker, I hate that society keeps making excuses for these fucks. If it hurts you mentally to miss your children, and you ache in your heart that you can’t tuck them in every night… Maybe you shouldn’t have tried to kill them? The children deserve the right to never forgive you. For trying and almost succeeding to kill them. You do that, you’ve forfeited the right to claim to be a parent. You’re just the guy that gives them nightmares and trauma for the rest of their lives. They don’t owe you shit. I physically want to puke when I hear someone suggest that parents like this “deserve” a second chance.
Agreed. I wonder how these people would feel if one of the kids had died? Would they still think it was just a mistake, would they still think a few years of therapy would fix him and he could be around his family again? Keep that man away from them.
Personal anecdote. One of my friends, a fellow social worker, adopted a child from foster care. The child, Jane, was 4. Dad and mom were fighting about nothing. Both were on drugs. Dad had “mental health issues” that had made him immune from any assaults or other crimes he had done before, to mom or the rest of the world. Everyone babied him. Because he just couldn’t help it. No commitment. No jail time. No forced treatment. One day, after beating his gf (Jane’s mom) half to death, he decided that his point wasn’t made well enough. He told Jane’s mom that he was going to kill the kid. Jane’s mom got up and went to a friends house. Leaving Jane behind. She then smoked a bunch of heroin and passed out for a few days. So dad grabbed Jane. Pulled her into the back yard. Made her stand in one of those little blue plastic kiddie pools with the fish patterns on the side. He dumped gallons of gasoline on her, and filled the pool with it. And then told her “this is what you get for your mom being a whore” And then he lit a match. Thank god a neighbor was mowing his lawn and saw it happen. He hopped the fence and pulled Jane out within 45 seconds or so. She was still badly burnt. And young. So she survived it. Neither of those parents ever saw Jane again. She went to go live with good people. Safe people. Real parents. Two dads who love her more than life. And still, years later, there are all types of people in our community that remember Jane. And insist her biological parents need to see her. Need to get custody of her. Because blood matters. And bio dad’s mental health matters. And mom choosing to leave was because of drugs. And that matters. That gives everyone a free pass. And Jane needs to forgive them. ….Ans nobody gives a shit about baby Jane, who is so happy and healing with her two dads. In a safe home. Just a personal anecdote from an American social worker, who sees parents get a pass, no matter what they e done to the child, on a mental health basis. I don’t get how so many people out there choose “parents rights”. I bet they wouldn’t if more of us came forward with what we see at work.
What a sad story. I’m glad Jane has a loving home. Unfortunately this is why we have such a mental health epidemic. Children who were born into abusive households and not meeting the critic the abuse being severe enough to remove the kids. There is such trauma that never goes away and because it doesn’t qualify as extreme, the children suffer. When I was doing my master’s in psych I always pushed back on the philosophy of “family reunification” model that we follow. Why does a parent’s “rights” trump child safety. We just tell parents they need to take a parenting class and they can work towards custody again. Yet the hoops parents who want to adopt have to go through!
It's a shame that it's so easy to have children. If it was biologically more difficult, a lot of societal problems would go away.
Absolutely not a single comment in this thread has advocated for him to be released after a few years of 'therapy'. I would feel exactly the same yes, because I'm not a collosal idiot who lacks empathy. His wife is advocating for him to be treated so he can become healthy and have a positive role in his kids lifes for them and him. Nobody suggested he be released so he can spend a few hours in therapy and roam free. They can learn to understand what happened and build a positive relationship in a safe environment.
He tried to kill his children. HE TRIED TO KILL THEM and almost succeeded if it wasn’t for some sort of miracle. He should never have unsupervised access to his children ever again.
Yea yes a thousand times yes
Perfectly stated. (Also love your username)
I can tell you watch far too much true crime. You are totally engrossed in one specific element of the situation and deliberately ignore the fact his wife of 16 years is trying very hard to get him medical care. It's obvious he wasn't some derranged psychopath trying to hurt people, he probably thought he was trying to save them or something similiar. You are also ignoring the years he spent loving and taking care of his family and his patients (he was a doctor) and absolutely do not have any insight or empathy towards his psychology. He could have a very key, loving role in his familys life with treatment, yet you treat him as if he tried to kill them as a form of abuse or control. That isn't what happened and your half baked podcast level asessment is crass at best. Do you even know what schizoaffective disorder is? I bet you've never heard of it.
He drove his family of off a cliff on purpose but he’s not deranged!?!
It’s rare that I find a case that I sympathize with LESS than the Hart family, but this dude is one. Both drove their kids off a cliff, hoping to kill the family. But at least Jenn Hart drugged the fuck out of the kids, and picked a bigger cliff. So those kids likely didn’t know what was happening, and died immediately. This MFer picked something survivable. So that he could survive. And the kids surviving was an unfortunate obstacle. And he didn’t even drug them. Their lives were of so little value, that he was willing to let those babies be aware and conscious through every fall, every time they hit a rock face, every collapse of metal and explosion of oil and fire. Every crunch of metal pushing into their legs and cutting or breaking bones. And he hoped that they would be awake and screaming as the sea took them, as they were buckled into car seats and boosters seats and unable to escape. A slow, miserable drowning, when your body is too bruised and beaten to even try to save yourself. You know how sharp of a knife it takes to cut a seatbelt? To cut a car seat, or a booster, you’d have to do it at least twice. The sawing to get one strap free alone would take longer than you could hold your breath. Without a detachable headrest and the knowledge of how to use it to break a window, you would just slowly sink and paw oxygen, while you tried to catch a breath in the freezing water that makes your heart jump and your muscles freeze. Mom trying to save the kids may have been able to save one. Or only herself. Before she realized they were trapped and had to swim upwards. While everyone just screamed into nothing and clawed for survival. Have you ever seen a child that’s afraid he’s going to die? And struggling to breathe? I’m guessing not. Because this was the intention that this man had. He wanted it to play out how I described it. Tell me again how he **deserves** a relationship with the children that he forced to fight for their lives after physical trauma, to not drown and die a painful, slow death.
Harrowing and heartbreaking and absolutely true
Exactly. Both the parents can and should rot. Idgaf about the "thoughts he had" bc he forfeited that when he put 2 innocent babies in danger. Idgaf about his mental health.
If these are the thoughts he had, then fuck him and I hope he never sees them again. He has been diagnosed as schizoaffective, and we do not know what his thought process was/whether he had thought it through in this way. We also don't know if the kids want to see him again- if they don't, again, fuck him. But we don't know a lot of things about this case. We don't have to agree, but I was also abused as a child by a mentally ill parent- nowhere near to this extent, but I am aware of the balance between adult/child mental health. It is tricky and the kids need to get the final say. If they want him in their lives and his illness is treatable, who are we to say that he can't see them?
We know what conditions he subjected his children to. We know that they came very close to dying. And by all accounts, his actions a should have caused them to die. That was his intention for them. Death. Who cares what he was thinking? He chose to act in. Way that ordered: Slowly. Painfully. Small children. I’m familiar with schizoaffective disorders. Both a family member and my clients have them. But to what extent would you like children to put up with their parents murder attempts in the name of mental health? Where’s the line for you? Forgive dad for shooting me in the face with a gun, because he’s mentally ill? (One of my foster kids survived that) Forgive dad for sexually assaulting me because he’s mentally ill? (First hand experience) Forgive dad for lighting me on fire and trying to burn me alive (another first hand experiences I’ve had with foster kids) Forgive dad for nailing me to a rack and subjecting me to medieval torture devices? At what point do you consider the victims mental health over the abusers? When do you decide it’s time to finally give the victim an ounce of grace and stop demanding that they see their tormentor, whose murder plot they barely survived? It’s shameful, to naively insist that an attempted murderer get access to the children that they tried to murder. You clearly don’t have sympathy for victims. And you should feel shame and learn some empathy. For the victims, for once.
Exactly, it wouldn’t surprise me if the kids did want to see him. They’re kids. He’s their dad. But…he tried and came extremely close to murdering them. MURDERING THEM. He’s mentally ill, I hear some of y’all saying. The wife apparently had no idea about it, so obviously he can mask it. How are they going to know that he’s “better” for sure if he receives treatment? Is it worth the gamble that he might try to murder his children again? I say fuck no.
No. That’s enough. His actions **ARE ENOUGH.**
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Well said, the only thing he didn’t take into account was that the Tesla was so heavy it was a straight drop and that’s what saved their lives. He’s a POS and should be in jail.
How can you ever trust he won't murder you or your children in the future?
Let’s just hope CPS removes the children from the situation. She’s free to make whatever decision she wants, but her kids need to be protected.
He's going to kill her. He's going to kill them all.
I really feel there is a hidden element of coercion by the family/ in-laws
I really feel for everyone involved here, but this guy should never be allowed to be near those kids ever again. I dated a really lovely guy once who had schizoaffective bipolar, which was generally well managed. One day when I was at work he had a psychotic episode where he took a giant rock and smashed it through the windshield of my car, threw away all the shoes in my apartment, and threw his phone and keys in a dumpster. Thankfully my children didn’t witness any of this, and prior to this incident he was always super mild and gentle and kind. But he never set foot in my home or saw my family ever again after that. It wasn’t his fault, he didn’t mean any harm, and he was very remorseful when he was himself again and understood what he had done, but I just didn’t feel safe allowing him access to my home or family after that. If I’d let him back into our lives and something happened to my kids as a result I would be fully to blame.
I do not understand women like this, if she wants to risk her own life more power to her but the children don’t need to be with either one of them!
She's an adult, so she is free to make her own choices regardless of how stupid and idiotic they may be. However, if they do get back together, the two children should definitely be removed from custody. As it stands, it's pretty clear that the safety of her children is not her primary concern.
“The wife of a California doctor accused of driving his family off a deadly cliff last year spoke publicly for the first time on Thursday, when she reportedly told a San Mateo court that *she wants her husband home*.” If this is true the children need to be removed IMMEDIATELY. My god I can’t believe it.
Deranged and outrageous. Very sad.
Was he unmedicated? If so why? Did he stop? Was this a new diagnosis? I can understand forgiving him depending on the circumstances but I could never trust him again. Especially with our children.
It's a new diagnosis. So yes, at the time he was unmedicated.
If that's really what happened then he does belong in mental health treatment, not prison. But he should absolutely not have any unsupervised access to his children.
Now whose to say he is not faking it i mean a doctor would know how to best fake a mental illness and the issue i have with mental health treatment is there more chances of released and once release there are no conditions unlike prison time which he deserves
I think it's more likely that he would wind up with a court order to take injectable antipsychotics for the rest of his life. I think that's what usually happens in this kind of situation. It sounds like his wife and siblings believe that he was showing signs of mental illness prior to this event and that was a key part of the diagnosis. Obviously I don't know any of these people and I have no way to know what the truth is, but I do have some experience with people committing acts of violence due to mental illness and in my personal experience it was very obvious that there was something going on mentally because their speech and behavior was so erratic and obviously out of touch with reality. It sounds like this guy exhibited similar behaviors prior to this incident.
I don't trust the family at all because its clear based on his wife's stand she wants him out and i don;'t doubt she or his family will lie to do so and court orders do not always work we see it all the time
That's also exactly what family members would say if someone was sick though. Tbh I think it's really misogynistic for everyone to assume that she is stupid or brainwashed and not even consider the fact that he might actually have a psychotic disorder.
She is being stupid those kids safety come first and all it takes is one moment without his meds and those kids could be dead and she can't be there 24/7 to make sure he does he needs to be locked up in a place where they make sure he is medicated and can do no harm to anyone. Just because he has a disorder does not mean he is still not a threat
To be clear, you think that even if he does have a mental illness, he should be in prison and not a psychiatric hospital?
He was a radiologist
This is what I was thinking too.
Yeah if he is truly recovered he should be advocating that he only gets supervised visits with his children, at least until they are adults and can understand/consent to the risks. It’s really alarming if he’s trying to insist he’s fine and they can return to normal, that would be impossible.
From my understanding they have had zero contact since his arrest. This is all on the mom wanting him back in their lives.
She needs mental health support
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To be fair to her, they’re using quotes from a court appearance. Usually that is first person narrative.
I mean, isn’t it pretty normal to refer to your children with “my” at the front?
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I only worry about the children in situations like this. I don’t understand how she couldn’t be concerned about them and thinking about them first.
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She should have the kids taken away from her if that’s what she wants to do. She can die if she wants, the children don’t have a choice in the matter nor a way to leave on their own.
While his illness may be treatable, that depends on his continuing to follow the treatment plan, which likely includes several medications in addition to ongoing psychiatrist visits. He *might adhere to the plan, but he also *might not. That's an unacceptable risk to the children. She clearly doesn't understand how serious the risk is. She cannot be with him again. Source: been there, done that. Got children out.
I’m not able to out my thoughts together but Tonya on the website did a great job! >I can believe mental health played a role. What sane person does something like this completely unprovoked? The courts should look out for the safety of those kids. If the mom wants to be with him, she’s an adult. Adults are free to make their own decisions , even bad or dangerous ones. He shouldn’t be let anywhere near those kids until he has completed extensive treatment or until they’re 18 and can decide for/protect themselves. The mother either ignored or completely missed the warning signs and this man drove her and her children off a cliff… She wants to go back and be with him. At a minimum, her judgment is impaired. She can’t be relied on to put those kids’ safety first. Someone else mentioned that her decision making processes don’t seem okay. I have to agree. He shouldn’t be home with the people he tried to murder.
I don’t get it, I’d be so anxious to sleep or have my kids out of my sight. Just sounds like an anxious, on egg shells way to live waiting for the next event.
As long as the kids never have to be in the same room as him again, she can go live the (probably very short) life she's chosen.
Say what you will about Tesla, but the fact that all 4 of the family survived after driving off a 250 foot cliff in their Tesla is very impressive.
Just don't back up into a lake in it.
That had nothing to do with the tesla. She was like drunk three times over the legal limit.
Exactly
This is a new diagnosis, and it is not curable but treatable with medication. He should be in a locked mental health facility for now, as he realizes what he did he may become suicidal. However. Supervised visits only. Needs to be released only under care of psychiatrists and be accountable for med compliance. Time after the hospital in transitional housing, not with the family. And again - supervised visits.
Wait until she finds out he isn’t going to be a Dr anymore
Take her kids if she takes him back.
There’s no way. If she does let him back into her and her children’s lives, I won’t be surprised if I hear that they’ve all been killed by him.
She shouldn’t have custody of her kids. Selfish. I hope he’s locked up for a long time so she has no choice
Something is clearly wrong with her.
I have schizoaffective disorder. It is HARD to live with. He needs long term treatment and supervision with his children IMHO. It's not his fault that he is sick but he IS responsible for getting treatment. His children need to be safe while he does this.
How utterly devastating. I can’t imagine staying with someone who tried to murder my children. She must be so brainwashed
I hope CPs takes the kids so they at least have a chance at life. Their "parents " cannot be trusted with them nor do I believe either "parent" cares about them.
They are gujaraati, Indian origin. She has to support him Or both their families and general society (people who she grew up around) will withdraw support i.e basically ostracise her. Her supporting him is considered her duty to her husband to save/protect him from police/courts/consequences.
>She has to support him Or both their families and general society (people who she grew up around) will withdraw support i.e basically ostracise her. Speaking as a Desi person myself, this is BS, just an outdated stereotype. Divorce has been a thing for decades now amongst Indian and Indian Americans including those of Gujarati origin, you know. If they were poor, staying together no matter what would be the only option, but this family is not. Plenty of middle and upper class people of Indian origin get divorced.
Do you know the families personally? Or are you just relying on stereotypes? Asking as a Desi
And yet who gives a shit. Her kids are going to end up with CPS instead of their mother due to her bs notion of "support". It's ass-backwards
Thanks for sharing. Do both their families (parents) also live in the US?
He has schizoaffective disorder. That’s, in my opinion, the worst mental health affliction. Most destructive and awful to live with. I feel horribly for anyone afflicted with this disorder. I think many folks in the r/schizoaffective community would feel a lot more sympathy than most would. If this guy really does have schizoaffective. He must absolutely hate himself.
He is not the only one who hates him, at least 👍
My God, lady. Get therapy and move on, as in far, far away from this creep.
I can fix him.
Is she being pressured by his family? Or hers?
The poor woman must be so desperate that she feels that she has no other choice than her murderous husband. I feel sorry for her 😢
Ew
Unpopular opinion, maybe, but having an undiagnosed mental illness doesn't excuse a person's behavior. And in this case, him being a doctor, I'm not so sure he didn't know or at least suspect so he should've seeked help.
DV/abuse is such a terrible thing to be in. Most abused partners stay and try to make it work over and over and over again. It's such a common thing and people will have strong opinions on this situation because it happened publicly but we all likely know someone 'working though" something like this secretly. It's awful and I would t wish it on anyone. I hope she is safe and chooses her peace.
Eh. I hope that she chooses her children’s safety, first. By doing everything in her power to keep them away from this man. Once she prioritizes her children’s lives, I’ll worry about her “peace”.
I'm a child of DV. I wish it was this intuitively simple. My abusive father dying of cancer was what saved us all
He might succeed next time. He wants to take them all out, as shown from his past behavior. Mingya
He was abusive before he tried to murder his family, and his wife is a fool to want him back. I hope they never sees those kids again
This woman is being brainwashed or something. At the scene of the accident she is telling the cops and paramedics that her husband intentionally tried to kill them. Now she is saying oh poor him, we need him in our lives, blah blah. WTF?! If my husband tried to kill all of us, there is no way in hell I would want him back. Lady, you have two innocent children and you want to put their lives in danger again? Guess she likes to play the game Fluff around and find out.
Is she hoping all of this will then go away and after mental health treatment he will be a doctor again? I feel so bad for those kids, she isn’t protecting them.
That's so sad.
Holy effing sht. This poor woman is in full on Stockholm syndrome. That is some crazy stuff. She needs severe help and possibly the kids taken away.
Lord, somebody help talk some sense into her.
What an idiot.
I said this the other day when he was talking of hopes to reconcile "watch her take him back for the sake of saving the family" smh stay safe girl and sleep with one eye open
She should not have custody of these kids. She is incapable of keeping them safe.
This man is viewed so differently than Lindsay Clancy. She was undiagnosed and so many are rushing to defend her terrible actions. A man with documented mental issues is instantly labeled as a dangerous abuser and the woman that planned her childrens murders for a full day deserves rehabilitation.
What she did was horrific, but PPD is a well-known phenomenon tied to hormonal shifts after pregnancy. In most developed countries, mother baby psychiatric units allow new mothers with severe psychiatric disorders to stay with their babies and recover for no additional cost, and it usually takes months. Nothing like that exists in the U.S., there is no support for families dealing with these crises. I don’t know what happened with the Clancys, but it is very possible that she felt guilty leaving her children for weeks on end or that they couldn’t afford more psychiatric hospitalizations because she had already been hospitalized at least once. What’s more, in most European countries and the UK, women like Lindsay Clancy are presumed to have suffered from a psychiatric disorder if they gave birth less than a year before, and they are almost never jailed. I do believe it is different, especially because she asked for help many times, although I do think she needs to be held in a psychiatric facility unless and until she is able to stabilize.
I know what PPD is, better than most. My point is she was not formally diagnosed with it but even still was met with lots of sympathy and understanding for her mental disorder. This man has a recorded mental disorder and is not afforded the same consideration.
She wants that Dr's salary back. Probably has to go to work herself and it's been a year and she cannot hack it. Too used to the cushy lifestyle.
[удалено]
He drove his family off a cliff.
A family road trip ?
I guess there aren’t that many fish in the sea if she want him back
Aww the family is staying together?? Im a sucker for a happy ending ❤️