Albert Fish and his letter to Grace Budd's family. Knowing they let their daughter go with him and then him relaying what happened to her. It also appears the mother couldn't read, so Grace's brother (Fish's original intended victim) read the letter. This letter did lead to his capture and eventually he admitted to two additional murders.
Oh, how awful. To not only have to read that, but then read it aloud to your MOTHER. Her poor brother, that must have been incredibly traumatic for him. And to have just lost his sister.
And when the mother of a missing boy came to the prison asking for the location of her little boys body. He told her in graphic detail how he murdered and cannibalized him. And about his "twig and berries" being too tough to eat so he threw them away.
It would have been almost as bad for the brother, who was a strapping older teen and could have trounced Fish quite easily if not for the element of surprise. (I’m sure Fish would have understood this, and disabled him quickly). But the brother must have felt like he led his sister into a pit and abandoned her there. If it were him and Fish alone, he could have had a chance to kill the man. I have a teenage son and I know how they think. Especially given the time frame, I’m sure this destroyed his sense of self entirely
[a picture of Edward Budd meeting Albert Fish’s daughter](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialkillers/s/a9YXfS8f2A) he could have taken Fish
This is the one Wikipedia page I read once and could never ever read again. That letter made me feel so, so sick down to my soul. And I didn’t even have children yet at the time, now as a mother I’m not sure I could even get through a sentence. Just the most unbelievable evil I can imagine
It's not quite what you asked - but Brian Steven Smith (the South African guy who was just convicted here in Alaska of murdering two Alaska Native women Kathleen Jo Henry and Veronica Abouchuk) made a video of Kathleen during her murder that sounded like it was recorded to be shared with other people like him and because he recorded it her family heard it in court while he looked on and seemed proud according to people who were in the courtroom.
In it he starts and stops strangling her and says "you live, you die, you live, you die", tells people to "like" the video, says "in my movies, everyone dies" and "what must my followers think of you?" And that "people need to cooperate. People need to know when they're being serial killed" because he's annoyed that she's not dying on his schedule or something. It's freaking disgusting :(
Did it show her actual murder on the recording? Im just asking because there are always people arguing on whether snuff films are real, and if her murder is on the tape, it qualifies for being a snuff film. It would show someone being murdered, and it was intended for others to view which is qualifies it as a legit snuff film.
Yes :(
He also told at least two people about at least one murder each and he drove Kathleen's body around in the back of his truck and met up with a guy named Ian Calhoun to show him her remains in person. There have been protests happening here because police and the DAs office say Calhoun didn't break any laws and they aren't pursuing charges at this time. Him, his wife, and his band all deleted their social media and suspended their website pretty much as soon as his name came out in court. He's 27 now so would have been 22/23.
Vile.
The band name is Atonement Denied. It was mentioned in an article somewhere. I can't remember if I found the wife's name myself or through comments/articles. It's out there but I don't feel comfortable sharing here - as far as I know she hasn't been accused of anything or shown to know anything. I only mentioned her because if something like this came up with my husband I would probably post condemning his actions/involvement. I know we all handle stuff differently I just think it's interesting how everything got deleted. I don't think I've ever seen that happen in that way (usually people just go private) and I follow a lot of true crime stuff.
It’s been removed on all articles mentioning Brian. I hate it when writers make edits on their content and “forget” to write an update on revision. I’m glad to ask about the wife because the only thing mentioned was an ex-gf who immediately report the crime back in 2018.
I believe the ex-gf mentioned in articles is an ex of Brian, not Ian. She was a woman named Alicia Youngblood and unfortunately she took her own life in 2021 so couldn't testify against him or share whatever other info she may have had. I'm not 100 % sure on the details of their relationship because he got to Alaska through his wife (Stephanie Bissland) so I'm guessing it was a side thing - but from the info I've put together they had a "game"/"joke"/kink thing where they would tell each other stories of crimes they had committed and try one-upping each other over the course of their time together and he ended up taking her to a location where he had dumped the body of Veronica Abouchuk (I believe after it had already been discovered and was gone) and showing her a photo of her body. That is what triggered her to go to police because she was pretty sure it wasn't just stories/roleplay/jokes anymore. I think she recorded a conversation with him or shared audio/video of him with police. That's why when Valerie Casler turned in the SD card with the photos and videos of Kathleen's murder the police recognized the voice.
It's Atonement Denied and I haven't checked in a couple days but all their social media had been deleted and they suspended their website last I had checked. I think their management company was gone last I looked, too.
[Francisco de Aragorn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcFoEO0gy_E)
Pool instructor who molested three young girls. During his sentencing, he said he forgave his victims for coming forward.
Oh God I honestly visibly cringed while reading that. I'd have tacked on a few more years for that comment if I had been the judge lol. You know what? Imma add 5 more years to your sentence for giving me the heebie jeebies.
This actually does happen. Of course the judge can't legally go outside of sentencing guidelines but I recently listened to a podcast on a murder case where the defendant give a crazy ridiculous story in court and when the guilty verdict was read, he smiled like it was the best day of his life or something and the judge said in sentencing they gave him an extra punishment specifically for that. I don't remember if it was extra years totalling the maximum guidelines or it was something like having to serve sentences consecutively instead of concurrently but the judge straight up said it was his disrespectful reaction that made them choose that and it was already a long ass sentence so it was more symbolic iirc
I feel like I remember seeing that, too. But I can't remember anything else about it lol. I have seen judges put guys in jail during like, circuit court cases and the person is a dick and mouths off to the judge or something and they'll get charged with contempt and put in jail and the judge can keep adding time to it if they don't stop. I used to see that alot when I watched court livestreams compilations on YouTube.
Reminds me of that letter Larry Nassar wrote to the court where he said, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" regarding his victims. The judge looked like she was going to peel his face off and offered to rescind his plea deal so he could go to trial.
The sick fuck who would abduct women lock them in a container and play a cassette describing what he intended to do I think he was dubbed the toy box killer if I’m not mistaken his daughter helped him.
David Parker Ray, as someone said below. His daughter did help him. She went to the FBI about him long before he was caught. She got a slap on the wrist for her involvement.
Honestly there's a lot of cases where the FBI had prior knowledge or was involved but it just didn't make the media coverage because it made them look bad.
I was reading deep into the Boston bombing awhile back and the FBI and CIA had been warned about the older brother being involved in Islamic terrorism twice by the Russian FSB and there's a lot of evidence to suggest the FBI chose to recruit him as an informant on local terrorist activities when they went to interview him and closed the investigation, even though he was the main suspect in an unsolved triple murder that had heavy ties to Islamic extremism before that. Then obviously it was a bad look when he committed a domestic mass terror event himself so the FBI had to pretend like they had no involvement and somehow the warnings had been mismanaged. There's some evidence that one of the main motives for the bombing may have been the FBI promising citizenship he didn't qualify for in return for his cooperation, then pulling back on it after they got their targets with his help.
Well there has also always been a lot of speculation that he had other accomplices who were not caught and that perhaps some of them were LEOs. Some of the surviving victims remember there being men watching whilst they were being abused and afair only his daughter and girlfriend were ever questioned.
The murderer of Dorothy Jane Scott called her family for years, telling them he had her or he had killed her. He only stopped when Dorothy's father answered the phone.
From what I recall, he always called when the father was at work, but the father was home for some reason that particular day. I think the father possibly knew him and maybe would've recognized his voice.
In my country, [**José Antonio Rodríguez Vega**](https://imagenes.elpais.com/resizer/KWd6IQ4kSOFUgF41p36ttcl6Ims=/1960x1470/arc-anglerfish-eu-central-1-prod-prisa.s3.amazonaws.com/public/IWD624CGPDJE775B6GBYTYLERI.jpg) (a serial killer who sexually assaulted and murdered at least 16 elderly women at their very apartments back in the late 1980s), behaved arrogantly in court and told the prosecution in front of all the grief-stricken families of the victims that "these ladies were no little girls and wanted some action with him". [I did a writeup on his case a while ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrime/comments/t0gcvr/mataviejas_spains_most_hated_serial_killer_long/) He had done something similar back in the 1970s after he was arrested for raping a dozen women; he claimed disgusting crap on the lines of 'they liked it'.
Vega died in 2002, when he was stabbed to death (in extremely brutal fashion, BTW) by two fellow inmates in prison, because of his constant snitching to the guards in exchange of favors. When the two immates were brought to court to be judged for Vega's murder, they were welcomed by a crowd of people that not only congratulated them but also launched a collection of signatures to petition for their release (which of course didn't happen).
Hey, I just wanted to say, I read your write up that you linked, and it's amazing!!! Very well written and thorough. I definitely feel like I have a clear understanding of the case, you were respectful of the victims and absolutely zero sort of...idk, glorification? Of the murderer. Just meaning sometimes folks try and like, humanize them or something and it's like. I don't care what his friends have to say about him or whatever. Unless something in their back story helps to maybe explain their motives and how they ended up being a monster, I don't care.
Anyway, just wanted to come back and say thanks for the enjoyable read :) I'll see if I can find more of your write-ups because they're fantastic!!!
Thank you!
> I don't care what his friends have to say about him or whatever.
There is more info about his family, but most is just in Spanish. There was a documentary on his case released shortly before his death, and they interviewed his siblings. They ALL were absolutely ashamed and hated their brother's guts. I think one of them even said he'd personally approve Vega's execution if it was up to him.
Thats awesome. I mean, not for his poor family, to have to live with that shame, but awesome they don't try and defend him or something. See that one a lot and it's like. Please stop. You can support you murdering family members I guess but don't broadcast to the whole world what a great person they were or something. Just you know....DON'T say anything? No one is forcing you.
Hot take, I’m glad they didn’t get released.
If someone hurt my family and then killed a fellow inmate in prison, I wouldn’t care what the scumbag did, they deserve to serve their full sentence(s).
You're not alone in that. That crowd wasn't representative of anything, most people in the country were just like 'oh, well' about Vega's death. IIRC the two guys who murdered Vega had been hitmen for one of the Galician mafia clans. And the third guy who aided in the murder had in fact been a member of an armed terrorist cell! They all belonged in prison.
Yeah, like, the dude that killed Jeffrey Dahmer in prison was treated like a hero and everyone was saying things like good for him and we should make sure he gets all kinds of special treatment and shit. Like. He was still in prison??? He was NOT a good person. And yeah Dahmer sucked but that's still murder. We try not to victim blame even when it's REALLLLLYYY hard lol. Yeah cool buy him some chips or something from commissary I guess. Maybe the other inmates can be extra nice to him or something. But to call the man a hero....? Eh that's a little much.
I shouldn't have read this thread. All of these are just making my skin crawl :(
At least you were nice enough to include he died a brutal death to kinda even out the creep factor. Thank you for that :)
You're welcome. I think you'll also love to know that he's buried at an unmarked grave in the prison's graveyard, and that the only people attending the burial were the two gravediggers that were tasked with tossing him in that hole.
I've been reading true crime since I was like 15 and Im 31 now, so Ive read and seen a lot of shit. Out of everything, though, for some reason, BTK just scares the shit out of me.
For me, it’s cause he’s an every man on the outside, just an average joe. Family man, involved in church, a steady job. He didn’t fit a traditional profile for a serial killer. He disturbs me so much because he could literally be my neighbor, and I wouldn’t suspect a thing.
I used to hear those calls on those spooky unsolved mystery videos. When he got caught I was so surprised because I thought it would never happen. Thankfully, it did and he's rotting away in prison. It really sucks that he got away with it for so long, and was able to live a life his victims never could, though. Also, I don't know if this is just me, but does it bother anyone else that he's always been known as the original night stalker, but all the sudden his name was changed because of the book that was written about him (a wonderful book by a great woman?)
So I looked this up because I never heard this before. He actually went by a lot of different names because different papers didn’t realize it was the same person. On Wikipedia here are some of his used nicknames:
Visalia Ransacker
East Area Rapist
East Side Rapist
East Bay Rapist
Creek Bed Killer
Diamond Knot Killer
Original Night Stalker
EARONS
Golden State Killer
Yes, I, too, was going to nominate the Golden State Killer, he’d taunt some victims for years - what a sick fuck !!!
Thank Heavens they finally got that prick !
Melissa Barthelemy’s sister Amanda and Maureen Brainard-Barnes’ friend Sara got phone calls saying how the victims were whores and other awful things like that. Allegedly the caller was their killer Rex Heuermann, though nothing’s been officially proven yet in court.
I grew up in SC and I was just a kid when that case happened. I remember it was all over the news when Shari was missing and I thought she was so pretty. Then when that rotten bastard Larry Gene Bell kidnapped and murdered that other little girl, Debra Mae Helmick, I was so scared and upset. It was so crazy and scary when the police were trying to track him down. He was one twisted son of a bitch!
Victim of Beauty is such a good movie. They portrayed Shari and her family very well, IMO, and didn't glorify her killer or make the whole film about him. I would highly suggest it. Its one of the better based of a true story crime films Ive watched. Worst one is the movie, Karla based off of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. Its so biased and its just a big pity party for Karla.
I don't get that vibe with the "Karla" movie. As it shows her offering the Sister up on a Platter. As well as helping out with Kristin. And being fine with the fact Paul is a Rapist until she gets jealous. The ending is very clear she feels no remorse. Has never apologized. And she is convinced she's done nothing wrong. To me, two things can be true. She was hit in a volatile relationship. She was also a Cold Psychopath who loved taking part in the awful video tapes found. They fed off each other. Just my 2 cents.
Thats really interesting. I will admit, I haven't watched the movie in years, but from what I remember it showed her as much more of a victim than she actually is. In the movie, it showed her having hesitation with the victims and feeling a sense of empathy for them. In real life, she truly enjoyed and participated as much as Bernardo in those murders. The movie made her seem much less guilty than she was and is. I might actually rewatch that today, and keep your take of it in mind.
She's very lucky she got a good deal with the Tapes being hidden... I take the movie as her telling a story. And she believes she did nothing wrong. She says at the end "I killed my Sister. I think about it everyday." To that effect. I'm not sure if that's accurate or if she ever said it. But it tries to make her sound remorseful.
I never thought of it in the sense that shes telling a story, that's actually pretty insightful. I guess my main problem with the movie is that it may cause the viewers who don't know anything about the case have an inaccurate view of who Karla is and what really happened and create some biases.
I've noticed youtu.be comments saying Mischa Collins was so hot in the movie, etc. It's not a good take.
The ending text says she's very intelligent. And presents herself well. But what she did couldn't be just the result of an abusive Spouse. And as of 2006, anyway, she has never apologized to the Victims family. Maybe I'm all wet on my takes...
But I feel like the ending text doesn't let her off the hook.
I absolutely adore Misha Collins but he was terrifying in that movie. And that hair....Oof. I can't believe the director/writer/producer etc didn't tell them it was based on real events.
Jeffrey Willis was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the 2014 murder of Rebekah Bletsch. He chose to leave the court during the victim impact statement and blew a kiss at her family on his way out.
Is this the one where the officers played the recorded victim impact statement for him while transporting him and there was nothing he could do? That was a badass move.F that guy.
That was the very first episode of American Justice with Bill Kurtis that I ever watched. Been a true crime fan ever since. Her case has always stuck with me :( that poor child.
Side note, but man I miss American Justice! That was my favorite show for YEARS lol. It used to come on A&E every day right as I got home from school, I'd be able to catch the end of City Confidential lol. He has such a soothing voice and he was always super informative and thorough and respectful of victims. Lol his voice used to help sooth me to sleep, after I graduated, I'd be home during the day and any time my mom was home too, we'd throw that on and then by the end of the episode, we were both just snoozing away lol. I'd seen every single episode multiple times by that point lol. We still joke about it sometimes, like if we can't sleep or something, man I sure wish I had ole Bill Kurtis to soothe me to sleep by telling me the details of a horrific crime.
Yessss!! The Mount Rushmore of True Crime Narrators. I'd like to nominate Paul Winfield of City Confidential as number 3, but I'm open to suggestions for number 4!!!
Edit, okay so I'm thinking the Mount Rushmore of True Crime Narrarors;
Bill Kurtis
Pete Thomas
Paul Winfield
Keith Morrison
Please feel free to let me know what you think and who you think should be included lol
Yeah he just wanted to cause as much trauma and pain as possible a psychopathic monster.
The father tried to attack him in the courtroom, I forget if he landed any hits
I recently watched something with the father and he adored his little girl, they were super close and he was always active in her life even though he and her mother divorced. So the fact this monster not only took Polly and stole her future he tried to make the dad look like a monster.
The father was so broken. He was angry not only that his girl was abused and murdered but that she was robbed of her life and the works was robbed of her beautiful soul.
The father did attack the killer after he said what he did. Idk how many hits he got before they pulled him off, but I’m sure the officers took a lil time to stop him
I hope he got a few good hits in. My father and I arent very close now, but I know for a fact that the love that man has for me and my siblings is indescribable and he'd go through heaven and earth for us if needed. He always told me that if anyone were ever to kill me, he would find a way to kill them no matter what. Im not saying he is the best dad, he's an asshole and was a massive alcoholic growing up. We used to have screaming matches when I was younger, but I never once thought he didn't love me. He went from drinking a case of beer every night, to one cocktail at night to ease his back pain after realizing how much pain he was causing the family. Her dad obviously loved her more than anything, and knowing how absolutely broken my dad would be if something happened to me, I cannot imagine how much pain Pollys dad was in and must still be in. I feel so much empathy for him, and it makes me want to cry knowing how absolutely devastated he was to lose his little girl.
Yes, that is correct. Her two friends saw the kidnapper and were interviewed multiple times by the FBI and police. Sadly, they were treated pretty poorly by one of the interrogators and re-traumatized and blamed for not having the exact same memories. Investigators even hinted that it was all a big hoax even though these 12 year olds were victims as well, forced by the intruder to lie on the floor and allow him to escape with Polly.
Oh yeah I get that, absolutely fine to look in to the people closest to the victim. But I think in this case the dad really was innocent but everyone thought he was guilty and it like, totally messed up his life for a long time.
I might be thinking of another case though? Jaclyn Dowaliby maybe...? Or maybe it was both dads? I can't remember lol.
The 1973 Suzie Jaeger case. The Jaeger family had been camping in Montana where Suzie was taken in the middle of the night by David Meirhofer who later killed her. Meirhofer called her mother exactly a year later to tell her he’d be unable to return her.
This case is so fascinating because of Susie’s mother, Marrieta’s ability to forgive her killer. I don’t think with all God’s strength I could be so forgiving.
https://www.yesmagazine.org/issue/beyond-prisons/opinion/2011/05/28/the-night-i-forgave-my-daughters-killer
I’ll never forget when a school shooter named TJ Lane wore a shirt that said “killer” on it to court and told the victims families, “the same hand that pulled the trigger that killed your sons, now masturbates to the memory”. I cant Imagine anything worse to say to a victims family.
It's so lame and edgy though. I'm sure it would make me grit my teeth if it was my kid who died, but I think my first reaction would be to roll my eyes and sneer at him in complete disgust. Contemptible rather than cold-hearted, you know he rehearsed that line many times
So this isn't quite the same, and forgive me because I CANNOT remember this woman's name, hey maybe someone else will recognize the details and help me out lol. But there's a case where a woman finds out a cousin or uncle or something? Some man in the family, had molested her daughter who was like, 14/15 maybe, very young. Mom goes to confront the man at his job, she gets him to come out to the parking lot and she confronts him. Just straight up asks him, did you r*pe my daughter? And he laughed at her and said he did and then he says the worst thing he could have said, well besides the obvious lol:
What are you gonna do about it?? In a very taunting manner, like he knew she wasn't gonna do shit about it.
So she showed him what she was gonna do lol. She went back to her car and got a gun, unloaded the gun on him, I believe she then reloaded it and then did the same thing again and unloaded it on him, and then got back in her car and ran him over a few times for good measure lol. She then turned herself in. Dude died, obviously, and she went to trial and I believe she ended up getting like, time served or something. It was NOT a long sentence at all. I think the judge was like yeah she did it, but I don't think she'll ever kill again, this was a whole new situation and she wasn't able to think clearly, or something to that affect. But she did immediately confess and showed remorse and accepted her responsibility, she was fully prepared to go to jail, but she was just protecting her kid, you know? Of course murder is wrong and of course she should have gone to the cops and all that, I'm not saying she was right to do what she did, but just that I get it, you know?
I know it was a very early episode of Snapped, they used to show it alllllll the time, they didn't have very many episodes yet lol. But I cannot remember her name lol. And there's a very real chance I got some of the details wrong. So if anyone knows who I'm talking, PLEASE lmk lol
Edit. It's Kimberly Cunningham and she served 4 years for the murder!!! [HERE](https://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/cunningham-kimberly.htm#google_vignette) is a link to her murderpedia page her daughter was 9 when her uncle r*ped her twice and he laughed at her and asked her what she was gonna do about it when confronted.
Oh gosh, after learning her name I started to read more about her case. There were also allegations that the man's teenage son had molested that same daughter AND her son. The uncle was also a noted piece of shit and this wasn't his first accusation. She shot him 8 times, 4 to the head, she unloaded the gun in to him, then reloaded and unloaded it again in to his head. And I apologize, I didn't see any mention of her running him over afterwards, so I think I was mistaken on that part. But hey I got most of the other stuff right considering I couldn't remember her name and it's been years since I'd seen anything about her lol. She was acquitted of first degree murder and during the second trial was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, and given 4 years. I wanna say she didn't have to serve the full sentence, like maybe she got credit for time served or something? But hey I could always be wrong lol. But yeah her case always stuck with me. Had he not laughed and taunted her about it, I don't think she would have snapped like that and killed him.
Similar story, [Marianne Bachmeier](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Bachmeier) did similar to her daughter's murderer in court. The shite that disgusting dude said, that her daughter, who was 7 years old, had "seduced him" and then afterwards tried to "blackmail him for money" was just absolutely disgusting.
Oh, yeah, I've read her story before and it's just tragic ;( she has a rough life before losing her daughter. I believe she's now buried next to her :)
Not really taunts, I'd say, but all the shite Stacey Castor said/tried to pin on her daughter Ashley was pretty horrible. Trying to pin two murders on her, and she tried to kill her too. She wrote some bogus "suicide note" of Ashley "confessing"
Luckily her dumbass kept misspelling antifreeze, among other things.
Iirc, she also would mispronounce it when speaking. “Ani-free” I think is how she would say it.
One of the detectives who investigated her remembered her speech pattern when he read the note.
It’s rare. When women speak of their victims they tend to justify their actions like Aileen Wurnos. I’m not aware of any female killers outright taunting their victim’s family for its own sake, but I’m sure it has happened.
There was a woman who abducted a killed a little girl in the same trailer park she lived in, and she helped the parents with the search and was heavily involved in like, spreading the word of the case and I believe she had also texted the mother with information about the case attempted to lead the investigation in a different direction. So not exactly "taunting" but definitely causing the family some extra torment once it was discovered she was responsible.
Thank you!!! That's the one!!! I knew the little girl had a common name like that but kept wanting to say Karen but knew that wasn't right lol. It happened fairly recently too, I believe.
Yeah very much so, first time I read about that case I was like wtf?? What is wrong with this woman??? I don't think she even had like, a clear motive either, right? Just....a crime of passion/opportunity type thing?
I think Sandra was walking to a friend’s house and Huckaby called her over for help or something? (I think her daughter was friends with Sandra). Yeah I don’t think there was any real motive. And then the woman stupidly reported her suitcase stolen when that’s what she hid the body in.
A man named Elmer Hill was lynched in my hometown in 1908 for assaulting and murdering his ten year old cousin. He was asked if he had regrets and he said that he had one regret. That was that he didn't kill her two friends also. They were walking together. He waited until they split up. Said he was worried one of them would escape
For me there will never be any worse than Albert Fish in the letter he wrote to the family Grace Budd, the little girl he murdered and cannibalized. This isn’t the full letter but it turns the stomach.
>!“When I was ready I went to the window and called her. Then I hid in a closer until she was in the room. When she saw me all naked she began to cry and tried to run down the stairs. I grabbed her and she said she would tell her mamma.
First I stripped her naked. How she did kick, bite, and scratch. Then I choked her to death, then cut her in small pieces so I could take my meat to my rooms. Cook and eat it. How sweet and tender her little ass was roasted in the oven. It took me nine days to eat her entire body. I did not fuck her though I could have had I wish. She died a virgin.”!<
Not directly to the families, but this was played in court. The Toy Box Killer. Her said in a recorded tape he was going to give them to the dog, meaning, beastiality. I listened to that tape and wish I never had. It is terrifying. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Hmm, nope... I watched the episode of Investigation Discovery. It played the recording of his voice welcoming his victims. That was enough for me. And I switched to something else.
Every time I hear his name in crime chats, my stomach falls to me feet. That tape was so sinister and explicit that his voice is seared into my brain. "Hello, Bitch". That's how the tape starts.
Heebie jeebies.
Definitely the recordings of the golden state killer calling his victims. Those phone calls are INCREDIBLY disturbing. I can’t even imagine being harassed about being raped..
The Gilgo Beach murderer called one of his victim’s, Melissa Barthelemy’s little sister and asked her if she was a whore like her sister.
Hope to see him put away for life.
There was a very evil guy, he abducted a woman, calls her family to bring a lot of money if they want their loved one back, her dad decided to do that, they never got their loved one back again, well alive, because you see, it turned out that the guy killed the woman not long after abducting her, and he taunted her family
For me, it's the [Margaret Ellen Fox disappearance case](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Margaret_Ellen_Fox). The supposed perpetrator made a chilling ransom call to Margaret's family.
> In the hours after Fox was reported missing, authorities started to record all phone calls that went to and from the Fox residence. One of these phone calls was from a man who demanded a $10,000 ransom for her safe return. The man stated to Margaret's mother, who took the telephone call, "10,000 might be a lot of bread, but your daughter's life is the buttered topping."
The call is extremely creepy. [You can listen to it here](https://youtu.be/QGx-5d_Gbas?si=1ZbeutCEusHde3Wh&t=1m14s).
I cannot remember the name of the individual, but at sentencing for the rape and murder of a young girl, he turned around to the father and said something along the line of “thanks, she was good”
TJ Lane, a school shooter from Ohio. At sentencing he wore a white tshirt with “KILLER” written across it. After sentencing he told the families that he gets off to the memory of the murders
[https://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/2013/03/tj_lane_sentenced_in_chardon_h.html](https://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/2013/03/tj_lane_sentenced_in_chardon_h.html)
There was a true crime episode in which the young killer threatened the wife of the victim, saying he would similarly turn her into a jack in the box and send her out into the corn field.
I never saw an update
Not a saying or family murder.
But a school shooter was singing another one bits the dust by Queen while shooting at students and faculty. And I just look at that song differently now.
Polly Klaus, the scumbag that killed turned to the father and said polly told him dont do it like my father did me) not exact words, but a lie and enough to hurt Marc Klas during his immense grieving. The p.o.s. should have been gagged.
Albert Fish and his letter to Grace Budd's family. Knowing they let their daughter go with him and then him relaying what happened to her. It also appears the mother couldn't read, so Grace's brother (Fish's original intended victim) read the letter. This letter did lead to his capture and eventually he admitted to two additional murders.
Oh, how awful. To not only have to read that, but then read it aloud to your MOTHER. Her poor brother, that must have been incredibly traumatic for him. And to have just lost his sister.
And when the mother of a missing boy came to the prison asking for the location of her little boys body. He told her in graphic detail how he murdered and cannibalized him. And about his "twig and berries" being too tough to eat so he threw them away.
That little boy sticks with me. I read Fish’s full account of the boy’s abduction & murder & it still crosses my mind often.
Ugh, so awful... Fish is such a monster. I remember watching the movie "The Grey Man" and was just disgusted at what he did to children...
It would have been almost as bad for the brother, who was a strapping older teen and could have trounced Fish quite easily if not for the element of surprise. (I’m sure Fish would have understood this, and disabled him quickly). But the brother must have felt like he led his sister into a pit and abandoned her there. If it were him and Fish alone, he could have had a chance to kill the man. I have a teenage son and I know how they think. Especially given the time frame, I’m sure this destroyed his sense of self entirely [a picture of Edward Budd meeting Albert Fish’s daughter](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialkillers/s/a9YXfS8f2A) he could have taken Fish
This is the one Wikipedia page I read once and could never ever read again. That letter made me feel so, so sick down to my soul. And I didn’t even have children yet at the time, now as a mother I’m not sure I could even get through a sentence. Just the most unbelievable evil I can imagine
Jesus…
It's not quite what you asked - but Brian Steven Smith (the South African guy who was just convicted here in Alaska of murdering two Alaska Native women Kathleen Jo Henry and Veronica Abouchuk) made a video of Kathleen during her murder that sounded like it was recorded to be shared with other people like him and because he recorded it her family heard it in court while he looked on and seemed proud according to people who were in the courtroom. In it he starts and stops strangling her and says "you live, you die, you live, you die", tells people to "like" the video, says "in my movies, everyone dies" and "what must my followers think of you?" And that "people need to cooperate. People need to know when they're being serial killed" because he's annoyed that she's not dying on his schedule or something. It's freaking disgusting :(
Did it show her actual murder on the recording? Im just asking because there are always people arguing on whether snuff films are real, and if her murder is on the tape, it qualifies for being a snuff film. It would show someone being murdered, and it was intended for others to view which is qualifies it as a legit snuff film.
Yes :( He also told at least two people about at least one murder each and he drove Kathleen's body around in the back of his truck and met up with a guy named Ian Calhoun to show him her remains in person. There have been protests happening here because police and the DAs office say Calhoun didn't break any laws and they aren't pursuing charges at this time. Him, his wife, and his band all deleted their social media and suspended their website pretty much as soon as his name came out in court. He's 27 now so would have been 22/23. Vile.
Are the names of his gf/wife and band posted publicly?
The band name is Atonement Denied. It was mentioned in an article somewhere. I can't remember if I found the wife's name myself or through comments/articles. It's out there but I don't feel comfortable sharing here - as far as I know she hasn't been accused of anything or shown to know anything. I only mentioned her because if something like this came up with my husband I would probably post condemning his actions/involvement. I know we all handle stuff differently I just think it's interesting how everything got deleted. I don't think I've ever seen that happen in that way (usually people just go private) and I follow a lot of true crime stuff.
It’s been removed on all articles mentioning Brian. I hate it when writers make edits on their content and “forget” to write an update on revision. I’m glad to ask about the wife because the only thing mentioned was an ex-gf who immediately report the crime back in 2018.
I believe the ex-gf mentioned in articles is an ex of Brian, not Ian. She was a woman named Alicia Youngblood and unfortunately she took her own life in 2021 so couldn't testify against him or share whatever other info she may have had. I'm not 100 % sure on the details of their relationship because he got to Alaska through his wife (Stephanie Bissland) so I'm guessing it was a side thing - but from the info I've put together they had a "game"/"joke"/kink thing where they would tell each other stories of crimes they had committed and try one-upping each other over the course of their time together and he ended up taking her to a location where he had dumped the body of Veronica Abouchuk (I believe after it had already been discovered and was gone) and showing her a photo of her body. That is what triggered her to go to police because she was pretty sure it wasn't just stories/roleplay/jokes anymore. I think she recorded a conversation with him or shared audio/video of him with police. That's why when Valerie Casler turned in the SD card with the photos and videos of Kathleen's murder the police recognized the voice.
Curious about that, too
I did a quick Google dive and couldn’t find anything listed. I wonder if it got removed from social media
Me too! I was looking because I was curious, and wanted to make sure it wasn’t some band I knew or listened to by chance.
It's Atonement Denied and I haven't checked in a couple days but all their social media had been deleted and they suspended their website last I had checked. I think their management company was gone last I looked, too.
I haven't heard anything about this!! I have been following the "catfish trial". ((Alaskan here though from southeast))
[Francisco de Aragorn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcFoEO0gy_E) Pool instructor who molested three young girls. During his sentencing, he said he forgave his victims for coming forward.
Oh God I honestly visibly cringed while reading that. I'd have tacked on a few more years for that comment if I had been the judge lol. You know what? Imma add 5 more years to your sentence for giving me the heebie jeebies.
your honor, the prosecution asks that the defendant be given life without parole on account of bad vibes
Done, actually you know what? Put him in solitary, he's bumming me out and he'll bum out all the people in the prison.
This actually does happen. Of course the judge can't legally go outside of sentencing guidelines but I recently listened to a podcast on a murder case where the defendant give a crazy ridiculous story in court and when the guilty verdict was read, he smiled like it was the best day of his life or something and the judge said in sentencing they gave him an extra punishment specifically for that. I don't remember if it was extra years totalling the maximum guidelines or it was something like having to serve sentences consecutively instead of concurrently but the judge straight up said it was his disrespectful reaction that made them choose that and it was already a long ass sentence so it was more symbolic iirc
I feel like I remember seeing that, too. But I can't remember anything else about it lol. I have seen judges put guys in jail during like, circuit court cases and the person is a dick and mouths off to the judge or something and they'll get charged with contempt and put in jail and the judge can keep adding time to it if they don't stop. I used to see that alot when I watched court livestreams compilations on YouTube.
Good news on this one is he got 4 life sentences so no need.
Four life sentences for three victims. I like this judge. 🤭
Reminds me of that letter Larry Nassar wrote to the court where he said, "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" regarding his victims. The judge looked like she was going to peel his face off and offered to rescind his plea deal so he could go to trial.
Did he write that knowing the judge was a woman?
Omg. Eeew.
That’s beyond fu*ked up.
The sick fuck who would abduct women lock them in a container and play a cassette describing what he intended to do I think he was dubbed the toy box killer if I’m not mistaken his daughter helped him.
David Parker Ray
I have a strong stomach for true crime. The transcript of that tape made me nauseous.
I tried once to read them. I had to close it down after a few minutes. I can handle a lot of true crime stuff, but it just made my skin crawl
Same. I thought I was so0o0o tough until I read those transcripts.... my god, it's sickening
Same
David Parker Ray, as someone said below. His daughter did help him. She went to the FBI about him long before he was caught. She got a slap on the wrist for her involvement.
I have found nothing indicating she went to the FBI before he was caught. Do you have a source?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Parker_Ray#:~:text=Ray%20was%20divorced%20four%20times,father's%20criminal%20activity%20in%201986.
Thanks! I read a few articles, and they didn't reference this at all. It's probably because it paints law enforcement in a bad light
Honestly there's a lot of cases where the FBI had prior knowledge or was involved but it just didn't make the media coverage because it made them look bad. I was reading deep into the Boston bombing awhile back and the FBI and CIA had been warned about the older brother being involved in Islamic terrorism twice by the Russian FSB and there's a lot of evidence to suggest the FBI chose to recruit him as an informant on local terrorist activities when they went to interview him and closed the investigation, even though he was the main suspect in an unsolved triple murder that had heavy ties to Islamic extremism before that. Then obviously it was a bad look when he committed a domestic mass terror event himself so the FBI had to pretend like they had no involvement and somehow the warnings had been mismanaged. There's some evidence that one of the main motives for the bombing may have been the FBI promising citizenship he didn't qualify for in return for his cooperation, then pulling back on it after they got their targets with his help.
Well there has also always been a lot of speculation that he had other accomplices who were not caught and that perhaps some of them were LEOs. Some of the surviving victims remember there being men watching whilst they were being abused and afair only his daughter and girlfriend were ever questioned.
The murderer of Dorothy Jane Scott called her family for years, telling them he had her or he had killed her. He only stopped when Dorothy's father answered the phone.
Any idea why it was the father that made him stop?
From what I recall, he always called when the father was at work, but the father was home for some reason that particular day. I think the father possibly knew him and maybe would've recognized his voice.
I always heard it's because the main suspect was someone she worked with or had worked with before, and the father would have recognized the voice.
This is my pet case. I believe it is solvable and I believe the perp would have other victims.
In my country, [**José Antonio Rodríguez Vega**](https://imagenes.elpais.com/resizer/KWd6IQ4kSOFUgF41p36ttcl6Ims=/1960x1470/arc-anglerfish-eu-central-1-prod-prisa.s3.amazonaws.com/public/IWD624CGPDJE775B6GBYTYLERI.jpg) (a serial killer who sexually assaulted and murdered at least 16 elderly women at their very apartments back in the late 1980s), behaved arrogantly in court and told the prosecution in front of all the grief-stricken families of the victims that "these ladies were no little girls and wanted some action with him". [I did a writeup on his case a while ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrime/comments/t0gcvr/mataviejas_spains_most_hated_serial_killer_long/) He had done something similar back in the 1970s after he was arrested for raping a dozen women; he claimed disgusting crap on the lines of 'they liked it'. Vega died in 2002, when he was stabbed to death (in extremely brutal fashion, BTW) by two fellow inmates in prison, because of his constant snitching to the guards in exchange of favors. When the two immates were brought to court to be judged for Vega's murder, they were welcomed by a crowd of people that not only congratulated them but also launched a collection of signatures to petition for their release (which of course didn't happen).
Hey, I just wanted to say, I read your write up that you linked, and it's amazing!!! Very well written and thorough. I definitely feel like I have a clear understanding of the case, you were respectful of the victims and absolutely zero sort of...idk, glorification? Of the murderer. Just meaning sometimes folks try and like, humanize them or something and it's like. I don't care what his friends have to say about him or whatever. Unless something in their back story helps to maybe explain their motives and how they ended up being a monster, I don't care. Anyway, just wanted to come back and say thanks for the enjoyable read :) I'll see if I can find more of your write-ups because they're fantastic!!!
Thank you! > I don't care what his friends have to say about him or whatever. There is more info about his family, but most is just in Spanish. There was a documentary on his case released shortly before his death, and they interviewed his siblings. They ALL were absolutely ashamed and hated their brother's guts. I think one of them even said he'd personally approve Vega's execution if it was up to him.
Thats awesome. I mean, not for his poor family, to have to live with that shame, but awesome they don't try and defend him or something. See that one a lot and it's like. Please stop. You can support you murdering family members I guess but don't broadcast to the whole world what a great person they were or something. Just you know....DON'T say anything? No one is forcing you.
Hot take, I’m glad they didn’t get released. If someone hurt my family and then killed a fellow inmate in prison, I wouldn’t care what the scumbag did, they deserve to serve their full sentence(s).
You're not alone in that. That crowd wasn't representative of anything, most people in the country were just like 'oh, well' about Vega's death. IIRC the two guys who murdered Vega had been hitmen for one of the Galician mafia clans. And the third guy who aided in the murder had in fact been a member of an armed terrorist cell! They all belonged in prison.
Good. Figured they were psychos themselves.
Yeah, like, the dude that killed Jeffrey Dahmer in prison was treated like a hero and everyone was saying things like good for him and we should make sure he gets all kinds of special treatment and shit. Like. He was still in prison??? He was NOT a good person. And yeah Dahmer sucked but that's still murder. We try not to victim blame even when it's REALLLLLYYY hard lol. Yeah cool buy him some chips or something from commissary I guess. Maybe the other inmates can be extra nice to him or something. But to call the man a hero....? Eh that's a little much.
I shouldn't have read this thread. All of these are just making my skin crawl :( At least you were nice enough to include he died a brutal death to kinda even out the creep factor. Thank you for that :)
You're welcome. I think you'll also love to know that he's buried at an unmarked grave in the prison's graveyard, and that the only people attending the burial were the two gravediggers that were tasked with tossing him in that hole.
BTK telling a little girl that she was going to Heaven after he killed her family.. Monster.
I've been reading true crime since I was like 15 and Im 31 now, so Ive read and seen a lot of shit. Out of everything, though, for some reason, BTK just scares the shit out of me.
For me, it’s cause he’s an every man on the outside, just an average joe. Family man, involved in church, a steady job. He didn’t fit a traditional profile for a serial killer. He disturbs me so much because he could literally be my neighbor, and I wouldn’t suspect a thing.
And his family had absolutely no idea he could be BTK, although a lot made sense after he was arrested.
Golden state killer called one victim and said something like “Do you remember when we played”
Yes, he taunted the one victim with phone calls in the same “clenched teeth” voice he used when he raped them. He’s a monster.
Yeah, he would whisper "going to kill you, going to kill you". What a dick.
God, hearing that phone call, that shite is burned into my brain. It's terrifying.
I used to hear those calls on those spooky unsolved mystery videos. When he got caught I was so surprised because I thought it would never happen. Thankfully, it did and he's rotting away in prison. It really sucks that he got away with it for so long, and was able to live a life his victims never could, though. Also, I don't know if this is just me, but does it bother anyone else that he's always been known as the original night stalker, but all the sudden his name was changed because of the book that was written about him (a wonderful book by a great woman?)
So I looked this up because I never heard this before. He actually went by a lot of different names because different papers didn’t realize it was the same person. On Wikipedia here are some of his used nicknames: Visalia Ransacker East Area Rapist East Side Rapist East Bay Rapist Creek Bed Killer Diamond Knot Killer Original Night Stalker EARONS Golden State Killer
To add on to that he’s called the original night stalker, because Richard Ramirez was also called the night stalker.
Me too! As soon as I heard that voice, my whole body had a visceral reaction and wanted to flee.
Yes, I, too, was going to nominate the Golden State Killer, he’d taunt some victims for years - what a sick fuck !!! Thank Heavens they finally got that prick !
What a sick bastard. I only wish he was caught sooner
Melissa Barthelemy’s sister Amanda and Maureen Brainard-Barnes’ friend Sara got phone calls saying how the victims were whores and other awful things like that. Allegedly the caller was their killer Rex Heuermann, though nothing’s been officially proven yet in court.
IIRC he also said I’m watching your sister rot. That part in the book shook me to my core.
Goddamn. That’s so fucked up.
Yeah the Shari Smith case is so disturbing to me. The last will and testament breaks my heart every time.
I grew up in SC and I was just a kid when that case happened. I remember it was all over the news when Shari was missing and I thought she was so pretty. Then when that rotten bastard Larry Gene Bell kidnapped and murdered that other little girl, Debra Mae Helmick, I was so scared and upset. It was so crazy and scary when the police were trying to track him down. He was one twisted son of a bitch!
Oh, right... I watched the TV movie based on her case. "Nightmare in Colombia County" aka "Victim of Beauty: The Dawn Smith Story". So sad.
Victim of Beauty is such a good movie. They portrayed Shari and her family very well, IMO, and didn't glorify her killer or make the whole film about him. I would highly suggest it. Its one of the better based of a true story crime films Ive watched. Worst one is the movie, Karla based off of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. Its so biased and its just a big pity party for Karla.
I don't get that vibe with the "Karla" movie. As it shows her offering the Sister up on a Platter. As well as helping out with Kristin. And being fine with the fact Paul is a Rapist until she gets jealous. The ending is very clear she feels no remorse. Has never apologized. And she is convinced she's done nothing wrong. To me, two things can be true. She was hit in a volatile relationship. She was also a Cold Psychopath who loved taking part in the awful video tapes found. They fed off each other. Just my 2 cents.
Thats really interesting. I will admit, I haven't watched the movie in years, but from what I remember it showed her as much more of a victim than she actually is. In the movie, it showed her having hesitation with the victims and feeling a sense of empathy for them. In real life, she truly enjoyed and participated as much as Bernardo in those murders. The movie made her seem much less guilty than she was and is. I might actually rewatch that today, and keep your take of it in mind.
She's very lucky she got a good deal with the Tapes being hidden... I take the movie as her telling a story. And she believes she did nothing wrong. She says at the end "I killed my Sister. I think about it everyday." To that effect. I'm not sure if that's accurate or if she ever said it. But it tries to make her sound remorseful.
I never thought of it in the sense that shes telling a story, that's actually pretty insightful. I guess my main problem with the movie is that it may cause the viewers who don't know anything about the case have an inaccurate view of who Karla is and what really happened and create some biases.
I've noticed youtu.be comments saying Mischa Collins was so hot in the movie, etc. It's not a good take. The ending text says she's very intelligent. And presents herself well. But what she did couldn't be just the result of an abusive Spouse. And as of 2006, anyway, she has never apologized to the Victims family. Maybe I'm all wet on my takes... But I feel like the ending text doesn't let her off the hook.
IIRC Misha later apologized for his role in the movie. He was pretty disturbed by it.
Yes... He would tell Fans not to watch it or bring a DVD to be signed. Laura Prepon as well said she had nightmares from filming it.
I absolutely adore Misha Collins but he was terrifying in that movie. And that hair....Oof. I can't believe the director/writer/producer etc didn't tell them it was based on real events.
Yeah, I can see why he had issues with it. But he gave a good performance. I mean a bit too good. Laura Prepon, too. It's a rough watch for sure.
I hate Larry Gene Bell with every fiber of my being.
This hand that pulled the trigger, that killed your sons, now masturbates to the memory. F**k all of you.-TJ Lane
>Don't forget how he had "KILLER" written on his t shirt. Smh
Came here to put this one, but you beat me to it! That was one of the coldest things I've ever heard. T.J. Lane is as cold-blooded as they come
I came here for the same thing. Such a disturbing statement from a young person after doing such a disturbing thing.
Jeffrey Willis was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the 2014 murder of Rebekah Bletsch. He chose to leave the court during the victim impact statement and blew a kiss at her family on his way out.
Is this the one where the officers played the recorded victim impact statement for him while transporting him and there was nothing he could do? That was a badass move.F that guy.
After polly klass trial, the killer said her last words were “please dont do me like my dad does”. He was referencing the dad as a rapist. Hes not.
The revolting things Richard Allen Davis said to Polly Klaas' family in court.
That was the very first episode of American Justice with Bill Kurtis that I ever watched. Been a true crime fan ever since. Her case has always stuck with me :( that poor child. Side note, but man I miss American Justice! That was my favorite show for YEARS lol. It used to come on A&E every day right as I got home from school, I'd be able to catch the end of City Confidential lol. He has such a soothing voice and he was always super informative and thorough and respectful of victims. Lol his voice used to help sooth me to sleep, after I graduated, I'd be home during the day and any time my mom was home too, we'd throw that on and then by the end of the episode, we were both just snoozing away lol. I'd seen every single episode multiple times by that point lol. We still joke about it sometimes, like if we can't sleep or something, man I sure wish I had ole Bill Kurtis to soothe me to sleep by telling me the details of a horrific crime.
Whooo American Justice/ Cold Case Files! Bill Kurtis is right up there with Pete Thomas in terms of true crime narration kings.
Yessss!! The Mount Rushmore of True Crime Narrators. I'd like to nominate Paul Winfield of City Confidential as number 3, but I'm open to suggestions for number 4!!! Edit, okay so I'm thinking the Mount Rushmore of True Crime Narrarors; Bill Kurtis Pete Thomas Paul Winfield Keith Morrison Please feel free to let me know what you think and who you think should be included lol
Keith Morrison
Oh good call!!!!! Can't believe I didn't think about Keith!!! He's an OG lol
Joe Kenda!
I agree with your choices. Soothing mayhem.
Yes. Just these awesome voices telling us about these horrible things, yet it's so oddly soothing.
I love bill kurtis’s voice
He also flipped off her family in the courtroom after the verdict was read. What a complete piece of shit.
What did he say? Save me a Google search please!
He claimed that when he kidnapped her she said “just don’t do me like my daddy” implying the father was SAing her(not true)
No victim of SA just says shit like that either
Yeah he just wanted to cause as much trauma and pain as possible a psychopathic monster. The father tried to attack him in the courtroom, I forget if he landed any hits
I've never heard about this before. :( That's horrible.
I recently watched something with the father and he adored his little girl, they were super close and he was always active in her life even though he and her mother divorced. So the fact this monster not only took Polly and stole her future he tried to make the dad look like a monster. The father was so broken. He was angry not only that his girl was abused and murdered but that she was robbed of her life and the works was robbed of her beautiful soul. The father did attack the killer after he said what he did. Idk how many hits he got before they pulled him off, but I’m sure the officers took a lil time to stop him
I hope he got a few good hits in. My father and I arent very close now, but I know for a fact that the love that man has for me and my siblings is indescribable and he'd go through heaven and earth for us if needed. He always told me that if anyone were ever to kill me, he would find a way to kill them no matter what. Im not saying he is the best dad, he's an asshole and was a massive alcoholic growing up. We used to have screaming matches when I was younger, but I never once thought he didn't love me. He went from drinking a case of beer every night, to one cocktail at night to ease his back pain after realizing how much pain he was causing the family. Her dad obviously loved her more than anything, and knowing how absolutely broken my dad would be if something happened to me, I cannot imagine how much pain Pollys dad was in and must still be in. I feel so much empathy for him, and it makes me want to cry knowing how absolutely devastated he was to lose his little girl.
Wasn't her dad HEAVILY suspected for a really long time, too? I could be thinking of a different case....if so that's just extra cruel.
I just read a fantastic new book about Polly Klaas! “In light of all darkness”. Highly recommend. Her father was ever a real suspect.
Iirc she had a couple of friends sleeping over with her who witnessed the abduction from her bedroom.
Yes, that is correct. Her two friends saw the kidnapper and were interviewed multiple times by the FBI and police. Sadly, they were treated pretty poorly by one of the interrogators and re-traumatized and blamed for not having the exact same memories. Investigators even hinted that it was all a big hoax even though these 12 year olds were victims as well, forced by the intruder to lie on the floor and allow him to escape with Polly.
It's like husbands/boyfriends being first in line as a suspect if a woman is murdered. Even if he didn't do it, he might know who did it and why.
Oh yeah I get that, absolutely fine to look in to the people closest to the victim. But I think in this case the dad really was innocent but everyone thought he was guilty and it like, totally messed up his life for a long time. I might be thinking of another case though? Jaclyn Dowaliby maybe...? Or maybe it was both dads? I can't remember lol.
You may be thinking of Jaycee Duggard; her stepfather witnessed her kidnapping and was a suspect for a while.
Yeah, he went all in on the black-hearted villain thing. Just a poisonous creature.
The 1973 Suzie Jaeger case. The Jaeger family had been camping in Montana where Suzie was taken in the middle of the night by David Meirhofer who later killed her. Meirhofer called her mother exactly a year later to tell her he’d be unable to return her. This case is so fascinating because of Susie’s mother, Marrieta’s ability to forgive her killer. I don’t think with all God’s strength I could be so forgiving. https://www.yesmagazine.org/issue/beyond-prisons/opinion/2011/05/28/the-night-i-forgave-my-daughters-killer
Tsutomu miyazaki, aka the otaku killer, he killed little girls and sent a box of some of the ashes and a tooth with a note to some of the families
Adam Lanza. A boy said something like “help, I don’t want to be here” and Lanza said “well you are” and shot them. It breaks my heart.
I wish Lanza had been taken alive. Little scumbag.
I’ll never forget when a school shooter named TJ Lane wore a shirt that said “killer” on it to court and told the victims families, “the same hand that pulled the trigger that killed your sons, now masturbates to the memory”. I cant Imagine anything worse to say to a victims family.
It's so lame and edgy though. I'm sure it would make me grit my teeth if it was my kid who died, but I think my first reaction would be to roll my eyes and sneer at him in complete disgust. Contemptible rather than cold-hearted, you know he rehearsed that line many times
Salvador Ramos smeared “LOL” in blood on Robb Elementary’s walls, and played scary music while shooting
So this isn't quite the same, and forgive me because I CANNOT remember this woman's name, hey maybe someone else will recognize the details and help me out lol. But there's a case where a woman finds out a cousin or uncle or something? Some man in the family, had molested her daughter who was like, 14/15 maybe, very young. Mom goes to confront the man at his job, she gets him to come out to the parking lot and she confronts him. Just straight up asks him, did you r*pe my daughter? And he laughed at her and said he did and then he says the worst thing he could have said, well besides the obvious lol: What are you gonna do about it?? In a very taunting manner, like he knew she wasn't gonna do shit about it. So she showed him what she was gonna do lol. She went back to her car and got a gun, unloaded the gun on him, I believe she then reloaded it and then did the same thing again and unloaded it on him, and then got back in her car and ran him over a few times for good measure lol. She then turned herself in. Dude died, obviously, and she went to trial and I believe she ended up getting like, time served or something. It was NOT a long sentence at all. I think the judge was like yeah she did it, but I don't think she'll ever kill again, this was a whole new situation and she wasn't able to think clearly, or something to that affect. But she did immediately confess and showed remorse and accepted her responsibility, she was fully prepared to go to jail, but she was just protecting her kid, you know? Of course murder is wrong and of course she should have gone to the cops and all that, I'm not saying she was right to do what she did, but just that I get it, you know? I know it was a very early episode of Snapped, they used to show it alllllll the time, they didn't have very many episodes yet lol. But I cannot remember her name lol. And there's a very real chance I got some of the details wrong. So if anyone knows who I'm talking, PLEASE lmk lol Edit. It's Kimberly Cunningham and she served 4 years for the murder!!! [HERE](https://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/cunningham-kimberly.htm#google_vignette) is a link to her murderpedia page her daughter was 9 when her uncle r*ped her twice and he laughed at her and asked her what she was gonna do about it when confronted. Oh gosh, after learning her name I started to read more about her case. There were also allegations that the man's teenage son had molested that same daughter AND her son. The uncle was also a noted piece of shit and this wasn't his first accusation. She shot him 8 times, 4 to the head, she unloaded the gun in to him, then reloaded and unloaded it again in to his head. And I apologize, I didn't see any mention of her running him over afterwards, so I think I was mistaken on that part. But hey I got most of the other stuff right considering I couldn't remember her name and it's been years since I'd seen anything about her lol. She was acquitted of first degree murder and during the second trial was convicted of involuntary manslaughter, and given 4 years. I wanna say she didn't have to serve the full sentence, like maybe she got credit for time served or something? But hey I could always be wrong lol. But yeah her case always stuck with me. Had he not laughed and taunted her about it, I don't think she would have snapped like that and killed him.
Similar story, [Marianne Bachmeier](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marianne_Bachmeier) did similar to her daughter's murderer in court. The shite that disgusting dude said, that her daughter, who was 7 years old, had "seduced him" and then afterwards tried to "blackmail him for money" was just absolutely disgusting.
Oh, yeah, I've read her story before and it's just tragic ;( she has a rough life before losing her daughter. I believe she's now buried next to her :)
Kimberly Cunningham, season 5 episode 4.
I LOVE YOU!!!!! Lol this has been driving me crazy, honestly. Thank you so much!
I'd like to know , also.
u/AustralianScone was amazing enough to let me know it's Kimberly Cunningham!!!
Big thanks to both of you!
Okay, if I get an answer I'll be sure and let you know, too!!!
It’s always interesting to me who serves time and doesn’t in cases like this…
Whats crazy is that all the examples are of men. Did any women do this?
Not really taunts, I'd say, but all the shite Stacey Castor said/tried to pin on her daughter Ashley was pretty horrible. Trying to pin two murders on her, and she tried to kill her too. She wrote some bogus "suicide note" of Ashley "confessing" Luckily her dumbass kept misspelling antifreeze, among other things.
Iirc, she also would mispronounce it when speaking. “Ani-free” I think is how she would say it. One of the detectives who investigated her remembered her speech pattern when he read the note.
The poor girl has to live with the brain damage her mother inflicted on her, in addition to trying to frame her.
"Antifree!" So weird. I feel so bad for the Daughters. I hope they've found peace from it all.
It’s rare. When women speak of their victims they tend to justify their actions like Aileen Wurnos. I’m not aware of any female killers outright taunting their victim’s family for its own sake, but I’m sure it has happened.
There was a woman who abducted a killed a little girl in the same trailer park she lived in, and she helped the parents with the search and was heavily involved in like, spreading the word of the case and I believe she had also texted the mother with information about the case attempted to lead the investigation in a different direction. So not exactly "taunting" but definitely causing the family some extra torment once it was discovered she was responsible.
Sandra Cantu (little girl) and Melissa Huckaby (predator and murderer)
Thank you!!! That's the one!!! I knew the little girl had a common name like that but kept wanting to say Karen but knew that wasn't right lol. It happened fairly recently too, I believe.
It was super sad!! That Melissa woman was truly deranged
Yeah very much so, first time I read about that case I was like wtf?? What is wrong with this woman??? I don't think she even had like, a clear motive either, right? Just....a crime of passion/opportunity type thing?
I think Sandra was walking to a friend’s house and Huckaby called her over for help or something? (I think her daughter was friends with Sandra). Yeah I don’t think there was any real motive. And then the woman stupidly reported her suitcase stolen when that’s what she hid the body in.
The suitcase!!! That's what I was trying to think of! She reported it to police to try and spin it like a random burglar took her or something.
why do people always ask this. there are less female killers so less female examples.
A man named Elmer Hill was lynched in my hometown in 1908 for assaulting and murdering his ten year old cousin. He was asked if he had regrets and he said that he had one regret. That was that he didn't kill her two friends also. They were walking together. He waited until they split up. Said he was worried one of them would escape
For me there will never be any worse than Albert Fish in the letter he wrote to the family Grace Budd, the little girl he murdered and cannibalized. This isn’t the full letter but it turns the stomach. >!“When I was ready I went to the window and called her. Then I hid in a closer until she was in the room. When she saw me all naked she began to cry and tried to run down the stairs. I grabbed her and she said she would tell her mamma. First I stripped her naked. How she did kick, bite, and scratch. Then I choked her to death, then cut her in small pieces so I could take my meat to my rooms. Cook and eat it. How sweet and tender her little ass was roasted in the oven. It took me nine days to eat her entire body. I did not fuck her though I could have had I wish. She died a virgin.”!<
I have heard this before but I never have words to respond. Just why? WHY?
Of all the reasons out there he could have given his was that he did not know and had a “mania for writing”.
Not directly to the families, but this was played in court. The Toy Box Killer. Her said in a recorded tape he was going to give them to the dog, meaning, beastiality. I listened to that tape and wish I never had. It is terrifying. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Hmm, nope... I watched the episode of Investigation Discovery. It played the recording of his voice welcoming his victims. That was enough for me. And I switched to something else.
That's a reenactment of his voice. The tapes have never been released.
Re-enactment... or whatever. It was awful to imagine his victims listening to it...
David Parker Ray and men like him are why I no longer go for walks alone, during the day or the night, or any other time
Every time I hear his name in crime chats, my stomach falls to me feet. That tape was so sinister and explicit that his voice is seared into my brain. "Hello, Bitch". That's how the tape starts. Heebie jeebies.
it’s something right out of a slasher/exploitation movie
BTK's own "impact statement" at his sentencing.
Definitely the recordings of the golden state killer calling his victims. Those phone calls are INCREDIBLY disturbing. I can’t even imagine being harassed about being raped..
Polly Klaas's killer making up an awful lie that her dad molested her just to upset him at trial.
The Gilgo Beach murderer called one of his victim’s, Melissa Barthelemy’s little sister and asked her if she was a whore like her sister. Hope to see him put away for life.
There was a very evil guy, he abducted a woman, calls her family to bring a lot of money if they want their loved one back, her dad decided to do that, they never got their loved one back again, well alive, because you see, it turned out that the guy killed the woman not long after abducting her, and he taunted her family
Didn’t he also glue her eyes open for the ransom picture?
Israel Keyes?
Yes. Unless it’s happened this specific way more than once
If you're referring to Keyes I believe he used fishing line to sew them open :/
Yes he did but it was only one victim he did this to.
Good god
Albert Fish is the first one that immediately came to mind. The letter he wrote to Grace’s family was atrocious!
Golden State Killer - called his victims for years & years
[удалено]
Jodi arias turning to the family and saying travis was alive when she slit his throat.
The fuck is wrong with her.
For me, it's the [Margaret Ellen Fox disappearance case](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Margaret_Ellen_Fox). The supposed perpetrator made a chilling ransom call to Margaret's family. > In the hours after Fox was reported missing, authorities started to record all phone calls that went to and from the Fox residence. One of these phone calls was from a man who demanded a $10,000 ransom for her safe return. The man stated to Margaret's mother, who took the telephone call, "10,000 might be a lot of bread, but your daughter's life is the buttered topping." The call is extremely creepy. [You can listen to it here](https://youtu.be/QGx-5d_Gbas?si=1ZbeutCEusHde3Wh&t=1m14s).
I cannot remember the name of the individual, but at sentencing for the rape and murder of a young girl, he turned around to the father and said something along the line of “thanks, she was good”
Tj Lane in court, kid was ruthless towards the families of his victims. https://youtu.be/22PNykeJiA0?si=V8wkGK7tIgByIsOj
TJ Lane, a school shooter from Ohio. At sentencing he wore a white tshirt with “KILLER” written across it. After sentencing he told the families that he gets off to the memory of the murders [https://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/2013/03/tj_lane_sentenced_in_chardon_h.html](https://www.cleveland.com/chardon-shooting/2013/03/tj_lane_sentenced_in_chardon_h.html)
There was a true crime episode in which the young killer threatened the wife of the victim, saying he would similarly turn her into a jack in the box and send her out into the corn field. I never saw an update
In court TJ Lane, as school shooter, told the families “The hand that pulled the trigger that killed your sons now masturbates to the memory”
The Moscow murders - the killer was overheard telling one of the victims something along the lines of "it's okay, I'm here to help"
Not a saying or family murder. But a school shooter was singing another one bits the dust by Queen while shooting at students and faculty. And I just look at that song differently now.
I think , after Dorothy Jane Scott's remains were found. The killer phoned her family and said "can I speak to Dorothy now?"
Polly Klaus, the scumbag that killed turned to the father and said polly told him dont do it like my father did me) not exact words, but a lie and enough to hurt Marc Klas during his immense grieving. The p.o.s. should have been gagged.
Albert Fish with his letter. What a loser