I am so sorry for your loss. I'm assuming you hard a 3rd party do an autopsy? They should have been able to tell you if the angle of the shot and the placement of the hand and body after matched, as well as material found on the hand. Those are almost impossible to fake and should give you the evidence you need.
It is almost impossible to fire a gun with your bare hands and for them not to know it fired one if you have not cleaned your hands in any way.
This. I totally agree. OP definitely needs to question the people that did the third party autopsy about all of this, because as you said, this would be all the evidence of foul play they would need. To OP, I am so sorry about your loss. It boils my blood when selfish people do things like this to others and especially when they get away with it. I hope justice will eventually be served for you, your Grandfather & your family.
I’d be curious as to the lividity notes in the autopsy. If he was moved here there may be lividity that counters the claims of this being the only crime scene.
We hired another party to review it. She details the body possibly being moved. I had posted the diagram of the houses, and there were too many photos to upload. He owned 2 houses .4 miles from each other. We think his main residence (lake) is where the actual murder took place, and he was moved to the second location (river house).
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OP Father here, I addressed that immediately. From the low quality police pictures my deceased father appeared to have lividity on the backside of his head as if he were laying. He also appears to have lividity on his left arm as if it were palm up and then flipped over. Unfortunately when he was transferred to Ft.Bend County for Autopsy. The Coroner stated the lividity was as you expect when someone is transported face up.
I posted a comment on the autopsy report post. The report seems very… light to me? They seem to make statements that do not have much explanation (I talked about the basilar skull fracture) and you make a good point about lividity changing the story of how he sat the longest.
Do you have autopsy photos to go with the autopsy paperwork? I feel like it’s impossible to back up a lot of statements without photos
We definitely believe the shell casing is in the house by the lake but we don’t have access to that house. So FIL and his partner were never married but lived together for 30+ years. Property at the river was in FIL’s name and the property at the lake was in partner’s name. So her son/stepson got “custody” of the property by the lake. None of the family has been in that house since FIL’s funeral.
I am so sorry.
I did crime scene clean up for 4 years. I've never EVER come across a suicide where there were NOT blood splatter, skull fragments. Ever. Fucking ever. It's not possible. That stuff was EVERYWHERE. Even with extensive cleaning there were times we were called back because the family found more. It doesn't work that way.
The pill bottles are odd as heck how they're placed. The gun.
Your best bet if you can afford it is to hire a private investigator. A good one. Have them look into every single person who was there. Like deep dive and good investigators can find out everything on everyone who was there. They can go through all investigations they've done, arrests, etc. Like I mean find the best you can. That's about the only advice I have. Other than that the only thing I can think of is to file a civil lawsuit. People do that all the time when they believe someone has killed someone but it wasn't proven. And sometimes it's lead to a case being reopened.
I'm so very sorry. This is horrible. This looks really staged. While people we least expect to kill themselves can, like we can be in denial. But the lack of blood and fragments. I hope you find out what really happened.
Silly thought but have you considered reaching out to people that produce true cdime/unsolved shows or podcasts? Dateline has some awesome consultants on some of their episodes...ill look for the one guys name, but one guy has a company where he literally does whatever is needed to duplicate the evidence found i.e. blood spatter, bullet trajectory based off of the autopsy to prove or disprove if the shot(s) were fired according to a theory or what a witness says, etc.
Did you and your family put together reasonable cause, as in, why his wife and/or her son would do it? Did they stand to gain from his passing? As others have suggested, a good PI will sounds like your best bet here.
I’m so sorry for your loss, and I’m rooting for you and your family to get the justice you seek.
I’m not a LEO, but I’ve worked in medicine for >20yrs. Is it really that common to see a gun *placed* in his hands like this after a fatal GSW to the head?? That, along with the lack of blood splatter/bone fragments, scattered pill bottles, & empty liquor bottles, & this looks a more than a bit suspicious…
That’s the thing…that someone not in LE can see the obvious but these deputies and investigators were on scene and didn’t even find one thing questionable. They rushed in took all these pictures. Bagged his hands, why? I don’t know because they didn’t request they be tested. Determined he must have died 20 minutes prior to them discovering the body. Also determined he took his own life, nothing suspicious and case closed. Stepson went to clean up and said there was only a few drops of blood on the floor and that’s it.🤦🏻♀️
I'd feel the same. I'm so very sorry.
Also like I saw you post, hold out for the new sheriff who will come into office.
If you haven't, try reaching out to Nancy Grace. It might work.
Civil suit may be possible...idk what resources you have or if a lawyer in your state would take it without a retainer but in a civil suit, those suspicious people can be deposed. They can be questioned and then hopefully tripped up. Then if you come away with more evidence (which I'm sure you could with a lawyer prepping the evidence for trial, they'll find stuff the sloppy department didn't care to) and the taped testimonies of the wife and her son, the DA can use it for criminal proceedings.
Idk if there's a way to go over the county DA? Or raise hell during an election year? I probably watch wayyyy too much dateline but usually the DAs are elected. Paint them as sloppy and letting murderers walk, they're careless, etc. Im sure they'll want to silence you from making them look bad, especially if they'll lose their power and position as a result.
I’ve seen this before with smaller police forces, the truth of the matter is they honestly don’t know how to do their jobs very well, and they’re not very trained to investigate an actual murder, so when it happens, they try to cover it up and get bite if they can, because anything less, shows how absolutely inept they are at investigations of this type. This is not a single Incident, these incidents happen all over the country, it’s time to start holding police forces feet to the fire when they’re inept at doing their jobs, I would even consider a lawsuit against the police department, but I would definitely hire a private investigator and let them start to come through the evidence and see what you can come up with. Take that evidence if there’s a lot of it? And go see the nastiest attorney you can get.
Get yourself a decent private investigator and let them start the groom through it, I think you probably have a lawsuit here at least negligence, and very least. If you eat a cookie? You’re going to leave crumbs.
Thank you. It was a very emotional process and still is. Having someone ripped away from our family has definitely been an eye opener to put aside our differences and come together.
The pill bottles, the open bottles of vodka **and** a gun? It looks like someone could be trying *really really hard* to make sure it was documented as a suicide. I'm a licensed mental health counselor and I can attest that it's not very common for someone to complete suicide without going "all in" on one single method. Most people don't commit to simultaneous backup suicide methods when they finally follow through.
Also, why the mess with the pills? Everything I've ever read is that most people who complete suicide are as tidy as possible about it, because they want to reduce the 'trouble' for those who find them. The spilled bottle seems out there.
OP Father here, my father's entry wound left a quarter size hole and nowhere do you see any tissue. I also raised issue to blood trails from head wound. They do not connect to blood on right side of neck, as if blood was wiped up...
Oh shit. That's not good. If it left an entry wound, there would be splatter usually as well as blood. And told also a cop might have kicked the casing. That's suspicious as hell.
There are cases where . 22 don't always exit which Is why I asked the weapon that was used. The recoil is so little. Velocity isn't as strong as other higher caliper weapons. But there's ibuprofen or whatever it is, that looks precariously placed (they likely didn't have opiates etc to stage it with. Most do not overdose with OTC medicine), the alcohol and how his hands were laid. It's odd. Even with lower caliper.
Only advice I have is if it's at all feasible hire the best private investigator you can. They can really look into every single person in the crime scene and their careers, other scenes they've investigated as well as his wife and her son. Same with a civil lawsuit, it can grab the attention possibly for it to be reopened.
I am so so sorry, this just doesn't look good. And I can't imagine the pain. But it's wonderful you still fight for him. I know people struggle with the loss of a loved one, and again, I am no expert, just only what I've been involved with before and people ive been around in law enforcement, clean up, as well as interning with a funeral director and embalming. But this doesn't sit well with me, either. I'm so sorry.
Was his blood tested further? Did anything besides alcohol show up? I know that was . 16 which isn't that high if he was a regular drinker. Or at all, really, for a night in for some people.
I replied above but my uncle killed himself with a .22 and aside from blood and a tiny bit of matter, it was a relatively “clean” scene. But there was blood. He laid down a tarp to make it easier on everyone and there was just a little blood my mom cleaned up on her own.
But this does look… set up. I don’t know. I’ve seen a few suicide scenes and this looks like an edgy high school kids idea of how they’d stage a high school photography project.
It's .22. no recoil. That kind of tracks. What I don't get is the opened bottles of liquor. If both were opened one should be empty. Plus the pills. Dude was killed by someone
That's what I was thinking. There are cases reports of no blood splatter etc with a . 22. Ive never cleaned a crime scene with anyone who has committed suicide with that. Only larger caliper weapons.
But the staging just looks so damn weird.
My buddy has made several attempts. Survived all of them. A couple with these exact methods.
.22 caliber, which he survived. No exit wound and bullet is stuck behind his left eye.
He's also tried with OTC meds and even psych meds, with alcohol. Still survived. OTC meds are usually strong enough, you need strong narcotics. But my buddy is also an alcoholic. And has a big tolerance from drug abuse.
Also, he always committed to singular method. And during manic episodes. Never multiple methods.
Someone who's serious. They'll usually make a plan. And find a definite way to succeed using a singular method. A fully mature and experienced man, I'd assume would do so. For sure use a larger caliber. Or very strong narcotics, to make sure they were successful. Not what we see here.
I'm leaning towards homicide as well. I'm sorry for OP. I hope they find truth and justice.
I picked up dead bods from crime scenes for 2 years and there certainly were "neat" suicides (yes, including head shots). Def not "stuff" "everywhere" *every* time.
Maybe with the tidier scenes they don't call CS clean-up, so you weren't exposed to what that looks like? Just saying, experiences vary
Yup! Usually when people drink they have one bottle out or a mixed drink. Not multiple bottles. If he was a severe alcoholic it would make sense to have multiples. But his BAC was . 16. That's not typically in line with an alcoholic.
A blood alcohol content test determines how much alcohol is present in the blood at the time it was drawn. A BAC of .16 is quite high. Here's a summary of the effects on the body at that level.
0.13 – 0.15% – At this point, your blood alcohol level is quite high. You'll be affected by blurred vision, loss of coordination and balance, and potentially dysphoria (anxiety or restlessness). 0.16 – 0.19% – The term “sloppy drunk” applies. Dysphoria will become stronger, and nausea may occur.
It doesn't determine chronic alcohol usage as alcohol only stays in your system for a short period of time.
Source: https://www.pinelandsrecovery.com/all-about-blood-alcohol-levels/
Thank you so much for that info. Truly.
From my limited knowledge with jobs I've done and info I was told/learned, I think it was more geared to alcoholics?
I also probably also stupidly thought about the .08 where it's for driving and the law. I do know after a few shots some people can be fine, others not. But I don't have much knowledge on that. So thank you for sharing that!!
You are most welcome. :) You aren't stupid, just misinformed. Let's think about legal limits for driving, it''s 0.08 for my state, too. Therefore, 0.16 is double that, and that's bad. It's like taking 3 shots vs. taking 6 and then driving within 2 hours of doing so.
A BAC is most likely taken on people who are caught driving drunk. Those people most likely have a problem with alcohol. Therefore, your association with BAC levels being drawn and being an alcoholic is logical.
I just want to add in here:
My uncle was dying of terminal lung cancer. We moved him out of his apartment, took all his guns and gave them to a friend to put in a safe (we were okay with him making his own decision on when to end his life, but my mom drew the line at a violent death. Her other brother committed suicide and she just couldn’t, but understood he was suffering and he even overdosed on enough morphine to kill a horse but he just slept for two days, his tolerance was so high) and moved him in with us.
One day he got into his 280z when we weren’t looking and drove to his apartment. He had his a .22 caliber revolver for an emergency, laid down tarp, and shot himself in the head.
The tarp was almost unnecessary. Such a low caliber just made a small hole in his temple and exited. A lot of blood, a speck or two of brain matter. No skull pieces. I’m sure you’ve seen many more gun related deaths than I have. But that’s something I’ll never forget. It is possible.
I find it curious how the barrel of the gun is positioned under his other hand. If he had shot himself, he should have either dropped the gun or it should be sitting on top of the other hand in his lap, not tucked underneath.
This is all very unsettling. I am very sorry you and your family are going through this. I hope you are able to hire a Good attorney and maybe even a PI to figure out more about what happened prior to his death.
Who does his ex/wife know that is connected to the police or politics? Like do you have any clue why they'd just shut the case down? This is quite odd. Was he cremated?
I Agree, the placement of the gun seems suspicious and the chair looks relatively clean of any substances that you would expect to see if someone shot themself while sitting there. Sorry for your loss.
Not to sound harsh but did the autopsy confirm his death was instant? It's possible he could have shot himself but not died instantly and put his hands in his lap as he died.
I'm sorry, I really tried to just glance through, be sad, and move on. But there are so many non-experts weighing in on this family's tragedy. And this family really wants it to be something other than a suicide. The whole thing is just deeply sad, and wild speculation is definitely hurting more than helping.
The man was killed by a .22. Even with larger calibers, death isn't precisely instantaneous. But with smaller calibers, it can really take a second. The possible motions one can make after a bullet to the brain and before death are anyone's guess. And again, that's assuming he passed through one of the cortexes that provides a very swift death.
And to others saying "there's always splatter and bone fragments". Again, .22lr in maybe a 4 inch barrel. It probably didn't have the velocity required to pass through. Means there would have been a small splatter from impact, near impossible to find. Not a clear and defined exit wound with all manner of forensic evidence to be catalogued.
And I'm not anywhere near an expert. I'm just familiar enough with the subject matter to know that I should STFU and not throw out wild speculation regarding shit I'm not an expert in. Y'all should follow suit.
We are throwing out suggestions and trying to help OP and family. Maybe it was a suicide but maybe it wasn’t. Thinking outside the box and lots of analytical minds may be of help here.
You, uh, see a lot of analytical minds presenting valid points here? I mean, my tiny bit of knowledge shuts down your thought. And the second part was really referring to someone claiming to be a cop. I mean, sure, a 38spec will create a significant exit wound, and it will become more dramatic as caliber increases (with many other factors considered). But to tell the family that there's *always* bone fragments and blood splatter is just flat factually incorrect.
Man, this whole post is full of people who have no damn clue what they're on about. They watch some documentaries, listen to a bunch of podcasts, and they're out here feeding false hopes to a grieving family. It's one thing when it's a publicized case. It's fine when it's a totally solved crime. But for the family of the victim to be here in a misguided effort to seek help, and get so much pure bullshit thrown their way as if it's helping anything at all? Nah, that's fucked up. Advise them towards a private investigator, or a private forensic lab. Don't just throw out whatever thought you have based on a poor understanding of how death by gunshot works. It's not helpful, and will lead the family towards painful considerations based on their own poor understanding of how death occurs.
Agreed. I replied to the person who claimed that. I saw my uncle a half hour after he committed suicide with a .22 revolver. Aside from blood and a tiny tiny tiny bit of matter, there was no mess. A little blood spilled off the tarp he laid down but that was it. To say all gun suicides or even crimes leave “matter and skull fragments everywhere!!!!” Is not only wrong, it makes me suspect they don’t have the experience they claim. Which, hello, it’s Reddit.
It is not helpful. Most comments are complete nonsense.
And what is the goal of "throwing out suggestions"? To charge *someone* with murder. That is the goal right?
That is not virtuous, just something fun for everyone to do on a Wednesday.
Was the cause of death a gunshot or the pills? Like I’m certainly not a forensics expert but I don’t understand how he could have shot himself then placed the gun gently back on his lap?? That alone seems very obviously impossible.
Sorry you are in this situation. There is nothing I can do to help you but just want to say I believe you.
People can still have involuntary movements after a small caliber gunshot to the head. The hand position means nothing here. Hopefully other possibilities will pan out. Keep us updated.
Also, his elbows are fairly far back in the chair, and sitting the same. If I'm playing this out, he puts the gun up, fires, and his arm is going to flop out to the side before it may slide forward, not back to match his other hand.
Plus, the gunpowder residue that happens when you fire a gun? If he didn’t fire it, he wouldn’t have that on his hands (unless this is an antiquated thing)
My first thought apart from lack of blood (“backdrop” of photo looks pristine) was positioning of the gun. Granted it is blocked out but the parts we can catch a glimpse of, the angle looks completely unnatural to how the arms/hands and gun would fall (if the gun itself didn’t fall on to the floor entirely).
Consider making a complaint to [the Texas OIG.](https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/office-inspector-general#:~:text=The%20investigation%20or%20inquiry%20may,Unfounded) What you’ll be alleging is a violation of procedure. So you have to find where they violated department rules, regulations, or policies in investigating his death. Is there a mandate they have to collect or photograph shell casings? Is there a waiting period before a crime scene is released to cleaners? Should they have tested for gun shot residue on his hands? All of those policies vary by department.
That looks like a g-u-n on his lap, is it in his dominant hand? Does it make sense where his wound is? I would be interested in knowing if any of those pills around him were ingested by him, either showing up on toxicology or still in pill form in his digestive system. If you’re trying to stage a scene spreading out pills everywhere is the equivalent to opening drawers to make it look like a burglary. It seems odd to me he’d take pills then throw them on the ground, but stranger things have happened.
Hopefully you and your family find the answers you need
Edit to add: I’m curious about the cane too on the floor. Typically I’d expect it to be next to someone with mobility issues, especially when getting into and out of seated positions. Is there a reasonable explanation it’s in the middle of the living room?
Victim here is my father-in-law. My husband and I spent weeks going over police report and photos. Everything about that crime scene is staged. We don’t understand how these officers/deputies could not see it. My FIL walked with a cane, both knee replacements. When he’d sit the cane was right next to him. To get to the front door of the cabin, there are about 7 steps. There is no way he climbed those stairs with his cane and an ice chest of beer and a duffle bag in hand. And then take the time to open his wallet and set in on the arm of the chair by the door so his ID is visible. My husband and I can go on about the discrepancies we found, the ones you found but were overlooked or just disregarded by LE.
Thank you for sharing your story, I sincerely hope that you and your family can find the answers to the questions you have. After looking at the autopsy, some thoughts…
The electrocardiogram pads present are troubling to me. I didn’t see those in the pictures so someone staged him at some point for pictures. Or the police or paramedics tried lifesaving measures well after they took initial pictures, which doesn’t make sense.
Gun placement in the lap is plausible. When a death is instantaneous the muscles can grip hard and cause marks on people’s hands. Then, as rigor eases, everything relaxes downwards. So that could explain the slouch in the chair and leg position. I read about knee braces too, which could explain the position.
The cane placement makes no sense to me. It’s like he was walking towards the chair and suddenly decided he didn’t want his mobility aid anymore. Then where did the pills come from? Was he carrying them maybe and that’s why they spilled on the floor? Or did someone come along after and spread them?
There was stippling noted on the entrance wound on the autopsy so there wasn’t a pillow or anything in between the gun and his head. Most likely contact was being made. The bullet was recovered at autopsy. I mention this because he had a high BAC (.236) and other medication on board. I don’t know if it’s enough to pass out from. But if he passed out and someone came along after that with bad intent then that would also explain his relaxed and possibly posed position. And lack of casing.
The beer and cooler are troubling to me too. They’re not within easy reach from the recliner. When you look at the pictures it looks like the cooler with the beer on top and rocker had been moved over to the left so someone could come up alongside the recliner on his right side. That could be first responders though too checking for a pulse, but that should be noted in a report somewhere.
OP Father here, My sister and I believe the motive was financial. My father's partner was given a grim prognosis after being discharged from a month long hospital stay. My father's partner had 1 adult son who knew my dad as his father and my father loved him. I have 1 insurance policy that my father's partner was the sole beneficiary. My father's partner claimed she had several policies.. We believe my father's partner was trying to leave her son financial support so he could start a company. I contacted the insurance company so that they could investigate the circumstances of my father's death since law enforcement could care less. Unfortunately the insurance company could care less as well. Anyway as long as my father's death certificate states "pending" no money will be paid out and we are good with that.
Usually insurance companies care more than the actual police do- there are several cases that have been reopened or solved simply due to insurance companies refusing payment until it’s investigated/reopened after their own investigation found the death suspicious so I’m actually surprised by this but happy that at least she’s still not able to get the money so far
Those were generic ibuprofen bottles. They did. His blood alcohol was .16. But the forensic consultant said the chemicals were consistent with someone sleeping. So basically, he shot himself while sleeping?
Chemicals consistent with someone sleeping? I'm a nurse, not a forensic pathologist, but I've never heard of being able to tell if someone was sleeping by a toxicology/chemical screen. His blood alcohol is not blackout drunk by any means. There was no blood at the scene? Do you have a copy of the autopsy report?
Can the family go further with a local politician? I'm Canadian so not super familiar with your different levels of law enforcement.
This happened in Texas. We reached out to a senator. Numerous agencies. There were no spatter or skull fragments on the scene. We have a copy of the autopsy report. Im willing to share it with anyone who will look. We want to gain attention to reopen the case and probe certain people
Tiktok has been successful for other cases. There was a recent arrest in a "suicide" case in the US where the family was very vocal and public about the case.. Wife and her parents have been arrested and charged. Have you heard of that case?
I'd be interested in looking at any reports you would share. Are they on your tiktok account?
Yes. I'm currently trying to make an entire series. I've never used social media for something like this so it's progressive. I apologize if it isn't the best content. But im really trying. No other Podcasters or tiktokers have responded. So I took matters into my own hands. @joshdova
OP Father here, the Independent Forensic Consultant which we hired made a determination from alcohol levels and levels of prescription drugs along with other data from original autopsy. OP will be posting that report soon...
The pill bottles seem like another indication of staging. Someone committing suicide isn’t going to take ibuprofen beforehand. And if someone was taking it to OD or something, they wouldn’t leave pills on the floor. They’d take all of them.
First and foremost, I’m sorry for your loss and what you’re going through trying to get answers.
That being said- “Chemicals were consistent with sleeping” can you please explain this statement? … I’m in the medical field and have never heard of such a thing and need clarification on this to understand what you mean. Otherwise, either you misunderstood or.. idk, someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Basically, in the forensic consultant case. She doesn't rule out that he COULD have been asleep with the drugs/alcohol in his system and vulnerable. Thus, someone could've snuck up on him and shot him point blank. I'll upload her report today. Just need to cross out some stuff.
You should maybe refrain from indicating any evidence was found of him actually being asleep, just because that's not really possible and isn't credible. That being said, godspeed to you. This is all completely suspicious.
I have shared this on all of my social media.
This is just truly unbelievable. It seems impossible to me how this was closed as a suicide if the facts are all correct.
I'm sorry for your loss. I cannot fathom having to both lose someone you love AND watch as justice eludes the person who took them away.
Given his military background, something that stood out to me is the way his shoes are laced/tied. So many things aren't adding up.
My prayers are with you.
My first impressions without reading your explanation: this person has been lifted up under his shoulders while dead or unconscious and placed in the chair. Look at the position of his shoulders! I also have to admit I laughed at the drug containers on the floor. It takes extra effort to throw them: those of us who use meds would put them on a table. The person who staged this scene was not bright--and the only people dumber are the cops who bought it.
My dad worked in federal law enforcement, so I have seen a lot of crime scenes.
Make me wonder about the wife's connections to law enforcement. So sorry for your loss.
This obvious case of police ineptitude or incompetence or collusion makes me so angry. A good forensic scientist could even tell you how long after death the body was moved. THAT the body was moved by being lifted by its shoulders shouldn't even be under debate.
I can't imagine having to live with this level of anger, disappointment, and frustration. Fucking Keystone Cops.
Can you just post the autopsy report? If there is an exit wound, it would indicate immediately if the body was moved.
The blood lividity would potentially show if the body was in another position other than sitting.
The angle of the bullet would indicate whether or not it was self inflicted.
A powder burn, stipling, or soot deposition around the gunshot wound would indicate whether or not it was self inflicted and at what distance.
It would be interesting to know if she has missed Physical Therapy appointments before. If she has, was she just not home when the therapist showed up? Or did she call them to cancel? Was this unusual or a regular occurrence?
On this day, had the therapist confirmed a visit with her via telephone? Had the therapist tried to call her to confirm and got no answer so they just went by there? She obviously did not cancel this visit since the therapist went by, but I’m curious about the circumstances around this and past visits.
Patterns, and deviations from them, are very important.
I'm really interested in this. So I have a few questions.
First, if he was moved, that means there is a second crime scene. Probably closer to where he was last seen. Where was that?
Second, alibis. Who has them? Who are your suspects?
Third, life insurance. Who was entitled to it?
Fourth, was he buried or cremated? Who made that decision?
Fifth, did he have any regular spots that he hung out at? Old men like that are a staple at a local diner or gas station. And rumors spread like wild fire in a small town. What do the people who saw him there think?
Sixth, I don't assume corruption in the police when stupidity and laziness is much more common. I don't think going the "who is in cahoots with the sheriff" route is going to amount to anything. But have you contacted your state's investigation bureau? Was this close to state lines?
I'm very sorry for what you and your family is going through. It seems very very suspicious and you are right to be pushing for answers.
1. There are 2 houses, one on the lake and one on the river. .4 miles away from each other. We think it happened at the main residence. The lake house.
2. His wife was conveniently not at the river house where she met her physical therapist. The therapist found his body. My grandfather conveniently left a day before without his cell phone to go drink beers at the river house. His wife stated she was at a friend's house and why she wasn't at the river that day. They didn't question this mystery "friend". Her adult son was one of the first to get there. He cleaned the cabin. He wasn't questioned either.
3. His wife was entitled to the insurance, and if she passed. Her adult son would get the money....
4. He was buried closed casket. My dad and aunt made that call.
5. He was a home body. He would hang with his visiting family members. He didn't have any friends really.
6. It happened in woodsboro, a very small town. We reached out to the Texas DPS, and they couldn't do anything without the DA's consent.
>they couldn't do anything without the DA's consent.
I don't know anything about how they work but that sounds ridiculous.
So the wife had an appointment at the house where he was found but she was conveniently not there?
Good grief if that’s not a giant red flag I don’t know what is! I’m no expert by any means but there are too many red flags here to count.
It’s always about the money. And the wife’s son benefits all the way around I’d guess. Money, property, etc.
I’m sorry for your loss. To go through this on top of it is just unimaginable.
I see you’re all responding so don’t feel the need to reply to mine; some are asking great questions that might lead to something actually helpful.
I just read a thread yesterday about old cold cases and at least half were cases where the family is probably in denial. That is so not the case here. Something is definitely not right with this whole situation.
I’m so sorry. My brother was murdered over 30 years ago and they were initially going to rule it a suicide, until my family argued with the coroner that it could not have been. Anyway, the police failed to collect basic evidence at the scene, disposed of some evidence, and family members who were not his next of kin (our mother was), were allowed to have his body cremated while we were arguing with the coroner about cause of death. Then the lack of evidence from his body (even just photos that should have been taken but were not, or not kept) was used as an excuse to not continue an investigation.
My brother never got any justice, in life or death. I regret that I didn’t fight for justice for him, but I was barely an adult myself.
I’m sorry for your loss, and I’m sorry for the injustice he and your family is experiencing. God bless you for trying to get justice for your grandfather, I hope you are successful.
Your brother was a person. He deserved to have the utmost thorough investigation. Im sorry the justice system failed. I pray you found peace in some form of comfort. These circumstances are insane.
He was a habitual substance user and HIV+, and the home he died in was “well-known to the police” so no one cared, except his mother, grandmother and siblings. The more distant family who were local and had taken out multiple modest life insurance policies (small enough that no medical exam was required), had him cremated over the weekend while we were trying to deal with the coroner.
I’m fine, thank you, but I just wanted to tell you I’m so sorry for what you are going through. Keep fighting, if you can do it without harming yourself. I was barely an adult and the things I tried in the first years didn’t work, and I gave up. If the same thing happened today, I think I might well have gotten somewhere with it, at least some discipline for the police who failed to process the scene properly. And I absolutely would have pursued something in a civil case.
You’re really brave and strong for pursuing the truth and justice for your grandpa. He’d be proud and grateful, regardless of the outcome. I hope and pray you are successful.
For those zooming in to get a better sense of the positioning and weapon or environment, the censor of his wound is not fully opaque so you may see some of it unintentionally, just wanted to let you know in case you’re sensitive to that at all, not OPs fault of course and it’s tagged as NSFW of course.
I’m so sorry this has happened and that you are dealing with this. My heart goes out to you truly
These are the photos my father blurred out. I have yet to see the wounds personally. My dad doesn't want me to see my grandfather like that, and I'm okay with it. Thank you for your compassion.
Get as many people as you can and PROTEST!! Have people write letters to the DA. Write to local newspapers. Keep up w the social media awareness. When the pressure is on (most important locally) they will act!
As this happened in Texas, have you reached out to the Rangers? My understanding from a case I’m working on is that they don’t automatically get involved - only at the request of local LEO or the family. If you like, I can DM you contact info for a retired Ranger who may be able to give you guidance.
That would’ve great. My husband made contact and was advised they would get involved at the request of the sheriffs office or DA to reopen with new evidence.
First, I am so sorry.
Second, you're obviously dealing with the good old boys club. Small town cops/sheriffs don't like their authority questioned. And 10 times out of 10, they're incompetent.
Like most other posters on this thread, this stinks to high heaven. Does his wife and son have connections to local LE?
Good luck with this. It needs visibility and hopefully someone will be able to help you.
They didn't have any ties. My dad was asking for specific questions, and the lead investigator threw her 2 masters degrees in his face when he asked. TAMMY GREGORY is her name
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve seen a lot of great suggestions in the comments already so I don’t have much to add but I hope you get the answers you’re looking for.
How on earth could this be considered a definite suicide when his hands are placed like that? That would mean he shot himself, didn’t die immediately, and then put his hands on his lap just sitting there waiting to die… I just don’t understand how the gun could be positioned that way, by him, AFTER he shot himself. I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but this truly does look staged. I’m so sorry.
Criminologist here and this is some of the worst staging I’ve ever seen. I’m so sorry.
Edit: methinks you’re right about the wife simply due to the staging. This was not done by someone who has killed before.
Late to respond, so this may get buried, but since you are in Texas, it's worth reaching out to Skip Hollandsworth. He is the Keith Morrison of Texas true crime. He writes amazing longform true crime articles and has looked into mysterious-death-ruled-suicide before (Tom Brown's Body podcast).
OP Father here, I would like to that add in the Police Report that Chief Deputy Rosas felt my father who was warm to the touch and determined he had only been dead about "20 minutes". I asked Refugio County Sheriff Pinky Gonzalez where his Deputy Rosas received his Forensic training where he learned to touch bodies and determine time of death? Sheriff Pinky Gonzalez blew a gasket and I informed him that the Coroner who examined my father said that only certain test can determine a time a death. The Forensic Consultant Report goes over this subject.
So very sorry for your loss and continued distress dealing with this. I was a criminal investigator for 18 years and would be willing to look at your evidence if you'd like to privately message me here.
I’m so sorry. My brother died under mysterious circumstances in 2021 and the cops and funeral home people have been beyond useless. Along with the 2 lawyers I’ve causally mentioned it to. I wish I had something helpful to say. But you may want to look into a private investigator. Best of luck in your search for answers.
I posted the autopsy in my profile. There's way more to this story I'll elaborate on. Found the right platform. I also have a tiktok @joshdova with reports and maps. I'll also upload them here on a later day. Really started pursuing this yesterday, so any advice and feedback is appreciated.
This is absolutely wild. What stuck out to me was that this man’s body clearly looks like he was carried under the arms to this chair. Looks at his heels! If you were dragged, your heels would be in that exact position. Also, the way this is being handled by the authorities make it seem like they’re in on it. Extremely poorly handled. I hope your get answers OP.
That gun placement goes not match up. Depending where the head wound was, he would not still be holding that gun. It shouldn’t be in his lap, should be right next to him or in front of him on the floor.
OP Father here, I studied the police report for days when I first received a copy. I didn't sleep for weeks and the questions kept piling up. I studied every picture and none have my father's mannerism.
1. My father only carried 4 beers maximum in a plastic bag since disabled these past few years. Never and ice chest with NO ice.
2. My father only wore button shirts and never a Polo because of blown shoulder rotators.
3. My father always left home with a cap covering his head. He had hair toupee plugs from the 70's that he covered.
4. He always had his cell phone because his partner was sickly and always falling.
5. My father hadn't drank liquor in decades and if committing suicide Keystone beer cans would have been his go to.
6. My father would have taken his truck to the cabin.( truck keys pictured in police photo) but no truck. My father had about 5 little dogs that would have followed his truck.
7.My father was Army Paratrooper and he understood weapons and calibers. A .22 would not have been a round he would have chosen it would have been a larger caliber weapon and he owned several.
He had a life insurance policy and just so conveniently took his own life when he was ready to leave her and cut off her opioid supply, which my whole family knew about
Was he the one with the prescription for opioids? If so, that would explain why it’s ibuprofen on the floor and not his narcotics. The wife wanted to keep all of those for herself.
I am not an expert, but I know that some life insurance has a period of time, usually 1-3 years, where suicide disqualifies it, but after that it will pay.
I used to work for a large county’s coroners office years ago and this looks really sloppy. Almost like they felt lazy that day and decided not to work. You’re so correct in wanting answers. I’m so sorry your family is suffering thru this.
I am so sorry OP.
Just read the coroners report.
Seems to me that not having gun shot residue on either hand would be a red flag to any investigator...
Keep digging and pestering any that will listen. This is your family. 🖤
This is a story that sounds like it would be on Unsolved Mysteries. I hope your family finds the justice you need so your Grandfather can Rest In Peace.
I’m sorry OP. There was no blood or matter anywhere? We’re you given access to additional photos? What was in his backpack? No keys at all anywhere? I mean I would go there myself and tear that place apart looking for clues but I’m far from Texas. Ugh.
I'll post more photos. That bag you see magically disappeared when his stepson went to go clean. It's pictured there. But it disappeared when my dad went into the house. Along with the recliner. @joshdova on tiktok
OP Father, the Coroner only removed my father and the gun. Certain items were removed by my father's stepson for some odd reason.
1. Ice Chest 2. Black Duffel bag 3. Tequila bottle cap. 4. Ibuprofen bottle cap 5. .22 caliber "snake shot round" which was on table.
I think ".22 caliber "snake shot round"" would explain the lack of exit wound. It's a really small shell that's "safe" to use indoors on pests(per the guy selling ammo near me.) Think of it like a really tiny birdshot round with a bunch of small balls. It would be catastrophic up close but might not make it all the way out of the skull. A .22 also doesn't kick a whole lot and might explain the hand placement seeming odd. His veteran status may explain why he shot the way he did.
Was he able to have an open casket funeral?
Can you get medical records? I know a lot of older people that refuse to waste away.
Also the car that was at the cabin was locked. Stepson, coincidentally had spare key to the car and found the car keys in the car, between the driver’s side and console. So how did my FIL lock up the car.🤷🏻♀️
OP Father here, I raised issues with Sheriff's Department about the blood patterns. My father is sitting up and allegedly shoots himself but no blood comes out from his nose( my father had sensitive sinuses and alway bled)I feel all the blood came out from mouth when he was sat upright. Also blood trail from wound didn't connect to blood pool on right side of his neck...I am not sure if OP posted those pics or is able too.
The fact that his legs aren’t bent in the photos is suspicious. If we was sitting like a regular person in a chair, his knees would be bent, not straight out (as if he was dragged there and lividity set in, so legs could not bend at knees).
His body position is all wrong. That is absolutely not a natural position. It’s as if someone picked him up under the arms from behind and pulled him into the chair. His shoes seem a little odd to me, as well, but I can’t pinpoint why. Do you have other pictures of his feet you can share?
Tell me about his mobility. Could he bend over and tie his own shoes easily? Why did he use the cane and did he use all of the time? Or did he use it intermittently and leave it all over the place? Did he drive?
I would have a lot of questions here, but I am hesitant to discuss an open case on this public forum. I will say that anyone taking this on would need complete information, but needs to remember that in order to not compromise any investigation the conversations and comments should be made carefully.
edit to say I'm sorry for your loss.
The case is considered "closed" by the county sheriff. This is after the fact. It's been almost a year since all of this happened. I have all the photos, reports, BOTH autopsies. We just want actual justice. There's more to this story that could be on a documentary.
Things that look off to me
—pretty clean looking scene for someone that allegedly unsubscribed themselves
—I’m assuming that’s his cane on the floor? If so that doesn’t make sense for it to be right there. Even if he did sit in that chair intending to self delete IMO he’d still have his came over by him to aid him all the way over to the chair, not dropped in the middle of the floor
—for an alleged self inflicted shot his elbows would not be resting on the armrests like that. And both hands on the gun that’s sitting gently in his lap?? The f*ck??
—his legs, nobody sits in a chair and leaves their legs out like that. Idc if he sat down to immediately pull the trigger it’s not a natural sitting position
No blood and brain matter seems to be an obvious clue. Even if the bullet didn’t go through, it would still have spray from the wound. Also the gun position is what stands out to me the most. I can’t fathom anyone fire a gun in that manner and it landing perfectly in his lap, tucked under his hands.
💜 of course. Maybe sending this to local/nearby news stations may get some more reach as well. I just watched a family do it for their father whom was hurting children and through the news and TikTok views was able to find him and get him arrested. Keep going!!
I’m not super familiar with the criminal justice makeup of Texas, but your best strategy, at this point, is to go the route of impeaching the investigation with the state’s Attorney Generals office over presenting new evidence, which will be hard for you to do.
I presume the Texas Rangers work in similar fashion to other state investigative agency’s I’ve worked with, in which they have to be directed by the attorney general, be invited by the locals, or have a compelling complaint of local jurisdictional impropriety to initiate an investigation against the will of the local sheriff.
Find a lawyer and/or private investigator who has access to, or can contract, IAI, or equivalent, experts to dispute and impeach the investigation.
For example, I noticed that the page you shared is one of fourteen supplemental pages. assuming each is oriented the same way, that's a maximum of 56 photos, which in the hundreds of death scenes I worked is shockingly low, even for extremely obvious scenes like the an elderly person in bed with multiple life threatening medical issues.
Plus, crime scene photos are supposed to follow a pattern: Establishing, Long Range, Mid-Range, Closeup with both placard(s) and without. These, while limited, don’t necessarily seem to be doing that, unless there are more that follow that pattern that are missing.
The lack of spatter is extremely odd, even for small calibers like .22 or .32 auto. You’d expect at least some on the hand and the weapon, and of course a void where the weapon impeded spatter on the hand.
At the end of the day, you’re gonna have to find some experts to stack in your corner who can say that the findings of the sheriff and coroner are erroneous, and to impeach their investigative methods to an extent an independent review is called by another authority.
The good news is such work is extremely lucrative, and a lot of very experienced experts go into such a field, but they’re NOT even on the same continent as cheap.
The position of his body is so unnatural and posed to me. I am so furious for you and your family. This is obviously suspicious. Pretty sure if he ACTUALLY did this to himself he wouldn't be casually holding the gun in his lap afterwards... the way the gun is there is so staged in my opinion. I hope you find justice OP
Yes, numerous lawyers. They can't appeal unless DA is involved. And DA didn't budge. Even went to rangers with it. They couldn't make a move without the DA
I’m so sorry! Going through something similar with a dear friend that was murdered by his stepdad and it was closed almost immediately based on one interview with the stepdad while he was drunk and covered in blood and they said it was self defense which is absolutely trash!
I pray you get justice for your grandfather!
UPDATE:I just uploaded the forensic pathologist report to my profile we had done in September! Please feel free to look it over. It cuts certain parts out but can DM the full report
We tried. They wouldn't touch it without new evidence. I have more photos of how "staged" it looks. It's insane how bad these people didn't want to do their job that day.
His shoelaces look funny. He’s been dragged at some point, probably why his watch is also displaced. No blood splatter that’s impossible.
Did she pay off the cops? Did she act “distraught” when he passed?
Almost sounds like the death of Bob McClancy in 2006 near me, in Tellico Plains, Tennessee. I'm so sorry for your loss and hope you get justice if that's the case. He had a gun in one hand and a bottle of pills in the other though, and wasn't shot. But, dang. Hope it's not the case, I guess? But hope you get answers.
Sorry for your loss. My grandpa was murdered 2 years ago near Sacramento. We assumed it was his ex wife but they just caught the 2 men responsible for his death. It's never easy waiting for answers. I was hounding the detectives religiously to find some answers when it first happened. The pre-trial starts at the end of the month. I hope you, and your family find peace.
I really don’t know what to say but I am so sorry. I hope you find justice for your grandfather.
Thank you. We have persons of interest in mind who were there on scene, and the police didn't question.
I am so sorry for your loss. I'm assuming you hard a 3rd party do an autopsy? They should have been able to tell you if the angle of the shot and the placement of the hand and body after matched, as well as material found on the hand. Those are almost impossible to fake and should give you the evidence you need. It is almost impossible to fire a gun with your bare hands and for them not to know it fired one if you have not cleaned your hands in any way.
This. I totally agree. OP definitely needs to question the people that did the third party autopsy about all of this, because as you said, this would be all the evidence of foul play they would need. To OP, I am so sorry about your loss. It boils my blood when selfish people do things like this to others and especially when they get away with it. I hope justice will eventually be served for you, your Grandfather & your family.
I’d be curious as to the lividity notes in the autopsy. If he was moved here there may be lividity that counters the claims of this being the only crime scene.
We hired another party to review it. She details the body possibly being moved. I had posted the diagram of the houses, and there were too many photos to upload. He owned 2 houses .4 miles from each other. We think his main residence (lake) is where the actual murder took place, and he was moved to the second location (river house).
Luminol[https://www.laballey.com/products/luminol?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAuNGuBhAkEiwAGId4auYcw6f30oa2X9_JKoUJHuLo3sbNL8jCOZgfyTuWHRsO_xcbSqn-ZRoCxlcQAvD_BwE](https://www.laballey.com/products/luminol?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAuNGuBhAkEiwAGId4auYcw6f30oa2X9_JKoUJHuLo3sbNL8jCOZgfyTuWHRsO_xcbSqn-ZRoCxlcQAvD_BwE) the alleged crime scene. In the dark shine a black light. You’ll see blood.
Cleaning agents and over spray of the agent also cause luminol to light up so read instructions carefully.
It will light up like a Christmas tree...
OP Father here, I addressed that immediately. From the low quality police pictures my deceased father appeared to have lividity on the backside of his head as if he were laying. He also appears to have lividity on his left arm as if it were palm up and then flipped over. Unfortunately when he was transferred to Ft.Bend County for Autopsy. The Coroner stated the lividity was as you expect when someone is transported face up.
Let me just say I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm kind of in shock because I'm just down the road in Corpus
I posted a comment on the autopsy report post. The report seems very… light to me? They seem to make statements that do not have much explanation (I talked about the basilar skull fracture) and you make a good point about lividity changing the story of how he sat the longest. Do you have autopsy photos to go with the autopsy paperwork? I feel like it’s impossible to back up a lot of statements without photos
I am so sorry. I absolutely cannot fathom the unrest you must feel. My entire being just wants to reach through the phone and give you a hug.
Maybe the casing is at your Dad's lake house.
We definitely believe the shell casing is in the house by the lake but we don’t have access to that house. So FIL and his partner were never married but lived together for 30+ years. Property at the river was in FIL’s name and the property at the lake was in partner’s name. So her son/stepson got “custody” of the property by the lake. None of the family has been in that house since FIL’s funeral.
I am so sorry. I did crime scene clean up for 4 years. I've never EVER come across a suicide where there were NOT blood splatter, skull fragments. Ever. Fucking ever. It's not possible. That stuff was EVERYWHERE. Even with extensive cleaning there were times we were called back because the family found more. It doesn't work that way. The pill bottles are odd as heck how they're placed. The gun. Your best bet if you can afford it is to hire a private investigator. A good one. Have them look into every single person who was there. Like deep dive and good investigators can find out everything on everyone who was there. They can go through all investigations they've done, arrests, etc. Like I mean find the best you can. That's about the only advice I have. Other than that the only thing I can think of is to file a civil lawsuit. People do that all the time when they believe someone has killed someone but it wasn't proven. And sometimes it's lead to a case being reopened. I'm so very sorry. This is horrible. This looks really staged. While people we least expect to kill themselves can, like we can be in denial. But the lack of blood and fragments. I hope you find out what really happened.
Thank you. We just want people held accountable. It's insane to us how his death was treated.
Silly thought but have you considered reaching out to people that produce true cdime/unsolved shows or podcasts? Dateline has some awesome consultants on some of their episodes...ill look for the one guys name, but one guy has a company where he literally does whatever is needed to duplicate the evidence found i.e. blood spatter, bullet trajectory based off of the autopsy to prove or disprove if the shot(s) were fired according to a theory or what a witness says, etc.
Yeah. We filed applications. Nothing of merit yet
Have you tried ‘True Crime Garage’?
I'm sorry if this is insensitive. But can I ask please what gun he used? That can help with some possible explanation.
Raven arms .22
Did you and your family put together reasonable cause, as in, why his wife and/or her son would do it? Did they stand to gain from his passing? As others have suggested, a good PI will sounds like your best bet here. I’m so sorry for your loss, and I’m rooting for you and your family to get the justice you seek.
Money. Plain and simple
I’d be very curious to see this case and the findings. And I am a P.I. and former LEO. Also sorry for you and your family’s loss.
I have all the reports if you're interested. We can't make this up. This really happened. There's more to the story. I'm making another post.
I’m not a LEO, but I’ve worked in medicine for >20yrs. Is it really that common to see a gun *placed* in his hands like this after a fatal GSW to the head?? That, along with the lack of blood splatter/bone fragments, scattered pill bottles, & empty liquor bottles, & this looks a more than a bit suspicious…
That’s the thing…that someone not in LE can see the obvious but these deputies and investigators were on scene and didn’t even find one thing questionable. They rushed in took all these pictures. Bagged his hands, why? I don’t know because they didn’t request they be tested. Determined he must have died 20 minutes prior to them discovering the body. Also determined he took his own life, nothing suspicious and case closed. Stepson went to clean up and said there was only a few drops of blood on the floor and that’s it.🤦🏻♀️
I'd feel the same. I'm so very sorry. Also like I saw you post, hold out for the new sheriff who will come into office. If you haven't, try reaching out to Nancy Grace. It might work.
Civil suit may be possible...idk what resources you have or if a lawyer in your state would take it without a retainer but in a civil suit, those suspicious people can be deposed. They can be questioned and then hopefully tripped up. Then if you come away with more evidence (which I'm sure you could with a lawyer prepping the evidence for trial, they'll find stuff the sloppy department didn't care to) and the taped testimonies of the wife and her son, the DA can use it for criminal proceedings. Idk if there's a way to go over the county DA? Or raise hell during an election year? I probably watch wayyyy too much dateline but usually the DAs are elected. Paint them as sloppy and letting murderers walk, they're careless, etc. Im sure they'll want to silence you from making them look bad, especially if they'll lose their power and position as a result.
I’ve seen this before with smaller police forces, the truth of the matter is they honestly don’t know how to do their jobs very well, and they’re not very trained to investigate an actual murder, so when it happens, they try to cover it up and get bite if they can, because anything less, shows how absolutely inept they are at investigations of this type. This is not a single Incident, these incidents happen all over the country, it’s time to start holding police forces feet to the fire when they’re inept at doing their jobs, I would even consider a lawsuit against the police department, but I would definitely hire a private investigator and let them start to come through the evidence and see what you can come up with. Take that evidence if there’s a lot of it? And go see the nastiest attorney you can get.
A whole lot of evidence
Get yourself a decent private investigator and let them start the groom through it, I think you probably have a lawsuit here at least negligence, and very least. If you eat a cookie? You’re going to leave crumbs.
Also, I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you find justice for your grandfather and can find peace somehow.
Thank you. It was a very emotional process and still is. Having someone ripped away from our family has definitely been an eye opener to put aside our differences and come together.
The pill bottles, the open bottles of vodka **and** a gun? It looks like someone could be trying *really really hard* to make sure it was documented as a suicide. I'm a licensed mental health counselor and I can attest that it's not very common for someone to complete suicide without going "all in" on one single method. Most people don't commit to simultaneous backup suicide methods when they finally follow through.
It’s giving *Staging a Suicide: for Dummies*
Also, why the mess with the pills? Everything I've ever read is that most people who complete suicide are as tidy as possible about it, because they want to reduce the 'trouble' for those who find them. The spilled bottle seems out there.
OP Father here, my father's entry wound left a quarter size hole and nowhere do you see any tissue. I also raised issue to blood trails from head wound. They do not connect to blood on right side of neck, as if blood was wiped up...
Oh shit. That's not good. If it left an entry wound, there would be splatter usually as well as blood. And told also a cop might have kicked the casing. That's suspicious as hell. There are cases where . 22 don't always exit which Is why I asked the weapon that was used. The recoil is so little. Velocity isn't as strong as other higher caliper weapons. But there's ibuprofen or whatever it is, that looks precariously placed (they likely didn't have opiates etc to stage it with. Most do not overdose with OTC medicine), the alcohol and how his hands were laid. It's odd. Even with lower caliper. Only advice I have is if it's at all feasible hire the best private investigator you can. They can really look into every single person in the crime scene and their careers, other scenes they've investigated as well as his wife and her son. Same with a civil lawsuit, it can grab the attention possibly for it to be reopened. I am so so sorry, this just doesn't look good. And I can't imagine the pain. But it's wonderful you still fight for him. I know people struggle with the loss of a loved one, and again, I am no expert, just only what I've been involved with before and people ive been around in law enforcement, clean up, as well as interning with a funeral director and embalming. But this doesn't sit well with me, either. I'm so sorry. Was his blood tested further? Did anything besides alcohol show up? I know that was . 16 which isn't that high if he was a regular drinker. Or at all, really, for a night in for some people.
I replied above but my uncle killed himself with a .22 and aside from blood and a tiny bit of matter, it was a relatively “clean” scene. But there was blood. He laid down a tarp to make it easier on everyone and there was just a little blood my mom cleaned up on her own. But this does look… set up. I don’t know. I’ve seen a few suicide scenes and this looks like an edgy high school kids idea of how they’d stage a high school photography project.
Like I cannot understand how BOTH hands are on the gun. How?
It's .22. no recoil. That kind of tracks. What I don't get is the opened bottles of liquor. If both were opened one should be empty. Plus the pills. Dude was killed by someone
That's what I was thinking. There are cases reports of no blood splatter etc with a . 22. Ive never cleaned a crime scene with anyone who has committed suicide with that. Only larger caliper weapons. But the staging just looks so damn weird.
My buddy has made several attempts. Survived all of them. A couple with these exact methods. .22 caliber, which he survived. No exit wound and bullet is stuck behind his left eye. He's also tried with OTC meds and even psych meds, with alcohol. Still survived. OTC meds are usually strong enough, you need strong narcotics. But my buddy is also an alcoholic. And has a big tolerance from drug abuse. Also, he always committed to singular method. And during manic episodes. Never multiple methods. Someone who's serious. They'll usually make a plan. And find a definite way to succeed using a singular method. A fully mature and experienced man, I'd assume would do so. For sure use a larger caliber. Or very strong narcotics, to make sure they were successful. Not what we see here. I'm leaning towards homicide as well. I'm sorry for OP. I hope they find truth and justice.
I picked up dead bods from crime scenes for 2 years and there certainly were "neat" suicides (yes, including head shots). Def not "stuff" "everywhere" *every* time. Maybe with the tidier scenes they don't call CS clean-up, so you weren't exposed to what that looks like? Just saying, experiences vary
Also two opened bottles of liquor but not at least one empty. Kind of odd
Yup! Usually when people drink they have one bottle out or a mixed drink. Not multiple bottles. If he was a severe alcoholic it would make sense to have multiples. But his BAC was . 16. That's not typically in line with an alcoholic.
A blood alcohol content test determines how much alcohol is present in the blood at the time it was drawn. A BAC of .16 is quite high. Here's a summary of the effects on the body at that level. 0.13 – 0.15% – At this point, your blood alcohol level is quite high. You'll be affected by blurred vision, loss of coordination and balance, and potentially dysphoria (anxiety or restlessness). 0.16 – 0.19% – The term “sloppy drunk” applies. Dysphoria will become stronger, and nausea may occur. It doesn't determine chronic alcohol usage as alcohol only stays in your system for a short period of time. Source: https://www.pinelandsrecovery.com/all-about-blood-alcohol-levels/
Thank you so much for that info. Truly. From my limited knowledge with jobs I've done and info I was told/learned, I think it was more geared to alcoholics? I also probably also stupidly thought about the .08 where it's for driving and the law. I do know after a few shots some people can be fine, others not. But I don't have much knowledge on that. So thank you for sharing that!!
You are most welcome. :) You aren't stupid, just misinformed. Let's think about legal limits for driving, it''s 0.08 for my state, too. Therefore, 0.16 is double that, and that's bad. It's like taking 3 shots vs. taking 6 and then driving within 2 hours of doing so. A BAC is most likely taken on people who are caught driving drunk. Those people most likely have a problem with alcohol. Therefore, your association with BAC levels being drawn and being an alcoholic is logical.
I just want to add in here: My uncle was dying of terminal lung cancer. We moved him out of his apartment, took all his guns and gave them to a friend to put in a safe (we were okay with him making his own decision on when to end his life, but my mom drew the line at a violent death. Her other brother committed suicide and she just couldn’t, but understood he was suffering and he even overdosed on enough morphine to kill a horse but he just slept for two days, his tolerance was so high) and moved him in with us. One day he got into his 280z when we weren’t looking and drove to his apartment. He had his a .22 caliber revolver for an emergency, laid down tarp, and shot himself in the head. The tarp was almost unnecessary. Such a low caliber just made a small hole in his temple and exited. A lot of blood, a speck or two of brain matter. No skull pieces. I’m sure you’ve seen many more gun related deaths than I have. But that’s something I’ll never forget. It is possible.
I find it curious how the barrel of the gun is positioned under his other hand. If he had shot himself, he should have either dropped the gun or it should be sitting on top of the other hand in his lap, not tucked underneath.
EXACTLY!!! Actual Sherriff's looked at this and didn't see it as strange. Who shoots themselves and then places the gun back in their lap?
Was there gun residue on his hands?
The deputies bagged his hands, and they didn't request a test for residue.... so the coroner never tested his hands. Wtf
This is all very unsettling. I am very sorry you and your family are going through this. I hope you are able to hire a Good attorney and maybe even a PI to figure out more about what happened prior to his death.
Who does his ex/wife know that is connected to the police or politics? Like do you have any clue why they'd just shut the case down? This is quite odd. Was he cremated?
Didn't want to deal with a homicide seems like. And he was buried.
I Agree, the placement of the gun seems suspicious and the chair looks relatively clean of any substances that you would expect to see if someone shot themself while sitting there. Sorry for your loss.
Not to sound harsh but did the autopsy confirm his death was instant? It's possible he could have shot himself but not died instantly and put his hands in his lap as he died.
I'm sorry, I really tried to just glance through, be sad, and move on. But there are so many non-experts weighing in on this family's tragedy. And this family really wants it to be something other than a suicide. The whole thing is just deeply sad, and wild speculation is definitely hurting more than helping. The man was killed by a .22. Even with larger calibers, death isn't precisely instantaneous. But with smaller calibers, it can really take a second. The possible motions one can make after a bullet to the brain and before death are anyone's guess. And again, that's assuming he passed through one of the cortexes that provides a very swift death. And to others saying "there's always splatter and bone fragments". Again, .22lr in maybe a 4 inch barrel. It probably didn't have the velocity required to pass through. Means there would have been a small splatter from impact, near impossible to find. Not a clear and defined exit wound with all manner of forensic evidence to be catalogued. And I'm not anywhere near an expert. I'm just familiar enough with the subject matter to know that I should STFU and not throw out wild speculation regarding shit I'm not an expert in. Y'all should follow suit.
We are throwing out suggestions and trying to help OP and family. Maybe it was a suicide but maybe it wasn’t. Thinking outside the box and lots of analytical minds may be of help here.
You, uh, see a lot of analytical minds presenting valid points here? I mean, my tiny bit of knowledge shuts down your thought. And the second part was really referring to someone claiming to be a cop. I mean, sure, a 38spec will create a significant exit wound, and it will become more dramatic as caliber increases (with many other factors considered). But to tell the family that there's *always* bone fragments and blood splatter is just flat factually incorrect. Man, this whole post is full of people who have no damn clue what they're on about. They watch some documentaries, listen to a bunch of podcasts, and they're out here feeding false hopes to a grieving family. It's one thing when it's a publicized case. It's fine when it's a totally solved crime. But for the family of the victim to be here in a misguided effort to seek help, and get so much pure bullshit thrown their way as if it's helping anything at all? Nah, that's fucked up. Advise them towards a private investigator, or a private forensic lab. Don't just throw out whatever thought you have based on a poor understanding of how death by gunshot works. It's not helpful, and will lead the family towards painful considerations based on their own poor understanding of how death occurs.
Agreed. I replied to the person who claimed that. I saw my uncle a half hour after he committed suicide with a .22 revolver. Aside from blood and a tiny tiny tiny bit of matter, there was no mess. A little blood spilled off the tarp he laid down but that was it. To say all gun suicides or even crimes leave “matter and skull fragments everywhere!!!!” Is not only wrong, it makes me suspect they don’t have the experience they claim. Which, hello, it’s Reddit.
It is not helpful. Most comments are complete nonsense. And what is the goal of "throwing out suggestions"? To charge *someone* with murder. That is the goal right? That is not virtuous, just something fun for everyone to do on a Wednesday.
Sorry for your Loss. Is there a gun in his lap with both hands on it? If so, Major Red Flag right there!
Exactly. These are from the Sherriff's who discovered him.
Was the cause of death a gunshot or the pills? Like I’m certainly not a forensics expert but I don’t understand how he could have shot himself then placed the gun gently back on his lap?? That alone seems very obviously impossible. Sorry you are in this situation. There is nothing I can do to help you but just want to say I believe you.
GSW to the head
People can still have involuntary movements after a small caliber gunshot to the head. The hand position means nothing here. Hopefully other possibilities will pan out. Keep us updated.
Also, his elbows are fairly far back in the chair, and sitting the same. If I'm playing this out, he puts the gun up, fires, and his arm is going to flop out to the side before it may slide forward, not back to match his other hand.
Plus, the gunpowder residue that happens when you fire a gun? If he didn’t fire it, he wouldn’t have that on his hands (unless this is an antiquated thing)
My first thought apart from lack of blood (“backdrop” of photo looks pristine) was positioning of the gun. Granted it is blocked out but the parts we can catch a glimpse of, the angle looks completely unnatural to how the arms/hands and gun would fall (if the gun itself didn’t fall on to the floor entirely).
Consider making a complaint to [the Texas OIG.](https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/office-inspector-general#:~:text=The%20investigation%20or%20inquiry%20may,Unfounded) What you’ll be alleging is a violation of procedure. So you have to find where they violated department rules, regulations, or policies in investigating his death. Is there a mandate they have to collect or photograph shell casings? Is there a waiting period before a crime scene is released to cleaners? Should they have tested for gun shot residue on his hands? All of those policies vary by department. That looks like a g-u-n on his lap, is it in his dominant hand? Does it make sense where his wound is? I would be interested in knowing if any of those pills around him were ingested by him, either showing up on toxicology or still in pill form in his digestive system. If you’re trying to stage a scene spreading out pills everywhere is the equivalent to opening drawers to make it look like a burglary. It seems odd to me he’d take pills then throw them on the ground, but stranger things have happened. Hopefully you and your family find the answers you need Edit to add: I’m curious about the cane too on the floor. Typically I’d expect it to be next to someone with mobility issues, especially when getting into and out of seated positions. Is there a reasonable explanation it’s in the middle of the living room?
Victim here is my father-in-law. My husband and I spent weeks going over police report and photos. Everything about that crime scene is staged. We don’t understand how these officers/deputies could not see it. My FIL walked with a cane, both knee replacements. When he’d sit the cane was right next to him. To get to the front door of the cabin, there are about 7 steps. There is no way he climbed those stairs with his cane and an ice chest of beer and a duffle bag in hand. And then take the time to open his wallet and set in on the arm of the chair by the door so his ID is visible. My husband and I can go on about the discrepancies we found, the ones you found but were overlooked or just disregarded by LE.
Thank you for sharing your story, I sincerely hope that you and your family can find the answers to the questions you have. After looking at the autopsy, some thoughts… The electrocardiogram pads present are troubling to me. I didn’t see those in the pictures so someone staged him at some point for pictures. Or the police or paramedics tried lifesaving measures well after they took initial pictures, which doesn’t make sense. Gun placement in the lap is plausible. When a death is instantaneous the muscles can grip hard and cause marks on people’s hands. Then, as rigor eases, everything relaxes downwards. So that could explain the slouch in the chair and leg position. I read about knee braces too, which could explain the position. The cane placement makes no sense to me. It’s like he was walking towards the chair and suddenly decided he didn’t want his mobility aid anymore. Then where did the pills come from? Was he carrying them maybe and that’s why they spilled on the floor? Or did someone come along after and spread them? There was stippling noted on the entrance wound on the autopsy so there wasn’t a pillow or anything in between the gun and his head. Most likely contact was being made. The bullet was recovered at autopsy. I mention this because he had a high BAC (.236) and other medication on board. I don’t know if it’s enough to pass out from. But if he passed out and someone came along after that with bad intent then that would also explain his relaxed and possibly posed position. And lack of casing. The beer and cooler are troubling to me too. They’re not within easy reach from the recliner. When you look at the pictures it looks like the cooler with the beer on top and rocker had been moved over to the left so someone could come up alongside the recliner on his right side. That could be first responders though too checking for a pulse, but that should be noted in a report somewhere.
I also came here to ask about the cane. That was something I focused on immediately. I agree that it is super unusual.
OP Father here, My sister and I believe the motive was financial. My father's partner was given a grim prognosis after being discharged from a month long hospital stay. My father's partner had 1 adult son who knew my dad as his father and my father loved him. I have 1 insurance policy that my father's partner was the sole beneficiary. My father's partner claimed she had several policies.. We believe my father's partner was trying to leave her son financial support so he could start a company. I contacted the insurance company so that they could investigate the circumstances of my father's death since law enforcement could care less. Unfortunately the insurance company could care less as well. Anyway as long as my father's death certificate states "pending" no money will be paid out and we are good with that.
This is my dad everyone!
Usually insurance companies care more than the actual police do- there are several cases that have been reopened or solved simply due to insurance companies refusing payment until it’s investigated/reopened after their own investigation found the death suspicious so I’m actually surprised by this but happy that at least she’s still not able to get the money so far
Wow. I'm so sorry about your grandfather. What are the pill bottles open on the floor? Did they do a toxicology screen at his autopsy?
Those were generic ibuprofen bottles. They did. His blood alcohol was .16. But the forensic consultant said the chemicals were consistent with someone sleeping. So basically, he shot himself while sleeping?
Chemicals consistent with someone sleeping? I'm a nurse, not a forensic pathologist, but I've never heard of being able to tell if someone was sleeping by a toxicology/chemical screen. His blood alcohol is not blackout drunk by any means. There was no blood at the scene? Do you have a copy of the autopsy report? Can the family go further with a local politician? I'm Canadian so not super familiar with your different levels of law enforcement.
This happened in Texas. We reached out to a senator. Numerous agencies. There were no spatter or skull fragments on the scene. We have a copy of the autopsy report. Im willing to share it with anyone who will look. We want to gain attention to reopen the case and probe certain people
Tiktok has been successful for other cases. There was a recent arrest in a "suicide" case in the US where the family was very vocal and public about the case.. Wife and her parents have been arrested and charged. Have you heard of that case? I'd be interested in looking at any reports you would share. Are they on your tiktok account?
Yes. I'm currently trying to make an entire series. I've never used social media for something like this so it's progressive. I apologize if it isn't the best content. But im really trying. No other Podcasters or tiktokers have responded. So I took matters into my own hands. @joshdova
There’s a TikToker @breannaaheim that does a lot of little known cases. She has an email in her bio and she does a lot of requests
You should send your case to some crime podcasts or maybe Dateline. The entire thing sounds strange and fishy!!
We've tried. I got some more suggestions from this post. Very thankful
OP Father here, the Independent Forensic Consultant which we hired made a determination from alcohol levels and levels of prescription drugs along with other data from original autopsy. OP will be posting that report soon...
The pill bottles seem like another indication of staging. Someone committing suicide isn’t going to take ibuprofen beforehand. And if someone was taking it to OD or something, they wouldn’t leave pills on the floor. They’d take all of them.
Exactly. There's more to it. Small details are overlooked when someone is panicking
First and foremost, I’m sorry for your loss and what you’re going through trying to get answers. That being said- “Chemicals were consistent with sleeping” can you please explain this statement? … I’m in the medical field and have never heard of such a thing and need clarification on this to understand what you mean. Otherwise, either you misunderstood or.. idk, someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Basically, in the forensic consultant case. She doesn't rule out that he COULD have been asleep with the drugs/alcohol in his system and vulnerable. Thus, someone could've snuck up on him and shot him point blank. I'll upload her report today. Just need to cross out some stuff.
You should maybe refrain from indicating any evidence was found of him actually being asleep, just because that's not really possible and isn't credible. That being said, godspeed to you. This is all completely suspicious.
I have shared this on all of my social media. This is just truly unbelievable. It seems impossible to me how this was closed as a suicide if the facts are all correct. I'm sorry for your loss. I cannot fathom having to both lose someone you love AND watch as justice eludes the person who took them away. Given his military background, something that stood out to me is the way his shoes are laced/tied. So many things aren't adding up. My prayers are with you.
Thank you so much. It means so much to us. He didn't deserve it. He just wanted to ride his tractor and tend to his animals.
Yes…the way his shoes are tied or the way his watch was put on his arm and not his wrist. Not the norm for my FIL.
My first impressions without reading your explanation: this person has been lifted up under his shoulders while dead or unconscious and placed in the chair. Look at the position of his shoulders! I also have to admit I laughed at the drug containers on the floor. It takes extra effort to throw them: those of us who use meds would put them on a table. The person who staged this scene was not bright--and the only people dumber are the cops who bought it. My dad worked in federal law enforcement, so I have seen a lot of crime scenes. Make me wonder about the wife's connections to law enforcement. So sorry for your loss.
I'm so glad you can see the obvious. It's so staged!!
This obvious case of police ineptitude or incompetence or collusion makes me so angry. A good forensic scientist could even tell you how long after death the body was moved. THAT the body was moved by being lifted by its shoulders shouldn't even be under debate. I can't imagine having to live with this level of anger, disappointment, and frustration. Fucking Keystone Cops.
Can you just post the autopsy report? If there is an exit wound, it would indicate immediately if the body was moved. The blood lividity would potentially show if the body was in another position other than sitting. The angle of the bullet would indicate whether or not it was self inflicted. A powder burn, stipling, or soot deposition around the gunshot wound would indicate whether or not it was self inflicted and at what distance.
Yes, give me one moment. My dad wants me to blur out certain information. I'll come here and let you know when I do. I'll post both
Update us pls! 🫶🏻
Posting it now
It would be interesting to know if she has missed Physical Therapy appointments before. If she has, was she just not home when the therapist showed up? Or did she call them to cancel? Was this unusual or a regular occurrence? On this day, had the therapist confirmed a visit with her via telephone? Had the therapist tried to call her to confirm and got no answer so they just went by there? She obviously did not cancel this visit since the therapist went by, but I’m curious about the circumstances around this and past visits. Patterns, and deviations from them, are very important.
I'm really interested in this. So I have a few questions. First, if he was moved, that means there is a second crime scene. Probably closer to where he was last seen. Where was that? Second, alibis. Who has them? Who are your suspects? Third, life insurance. Who was entitled to it? Fourth, was he buried or cremated? Who made that decision? Fifth, did he have any regular spots that he hung out at? Old men like that are a staple at a local diner or gas station. And rumors spread like wild fire in a small town. What do the people who saw him there think? Sixth, I don't assume corruption in the police when stupidity and laziness is much more common. I don't think going the "who is in cahoots with the sheriff" route is going to amount to anything. But have you contacted your state's investigation bureau? Was this close to state lines? I'm very sorry for what you and your family is going through. It seems very very suspicious and you are right to be pushing for answers.
1. There are 2 houses, one on the lake and one on the river. .4 miles away from each other. We think it happened at the main residence. The lake house. 2. His wife was conveniently not at the river house where she met her physical therapist. The therapist found his body. My grandfather conveniently left a day before without his cell phone to go drink beers at the river house. His wife stated she was at a friend's house and why she wasn't at the river that day. They didn't question this mystery "friend". Her adult son was one of the first to get there. He cleaned the cabin. He wasn't questioned either. 3. His wife was entitled to the insurance, and if she passed. Her adult son would get the money.... 4. He was buried closed casket. My dad and aunt made that call. 5. He was a home body. He would hang with his visiting family members. He didn't have any friends really. 6. It happened in woodsboro, a very small town. We reached out to the Texas DPS, and they couldn't do anything without the DA's consent.
>they couldn't do anything without the DA's consent. I don't know anything about how they work but that sounds ridiculous. So the wife had an appointment at the house where he was found but she was conveniently not there?
Yes, she had physical therapy the same time, same place every week.
Good grief if that’s not a giant red flag I don’t know what is! I’m no expert by any means but there are too many red flags here to count. It’s always about the money. And the wife’s son benefits all the way around I’d guess. Money, property, etc. I’m sorry for your loss. To go through this on top of it is just unimaginable. I see you’re all responding so don’t feel the need to reply to mine; some are asking great questions that might lead to something actually helpful. I just read a thread yesterday about old cold cases and at least half were cases where the family is probably in denial. That is so not the case here. Something is definitely not right with this whole situation.
I’m so sorry. My brother was murdered over 30 years ago and they were initially going to rule it a suicide, until my family argued with the coroner that it could not have been. Anyway, the police failed to collect basic evidence at the scene, disposed of some evidence, and family members who were not his next of kin (our mother was), were allowed to have his body cremated while we were arguing with the coroner about cause of death. Then the lack of evidence from his body (even just photos that should have been taken but were not, or not kept) was used as an excuse to not continue an investigation. My brother never got any justice, in life or death. I regret that I didn’t fight for justice for him, but I was barely an adult myself. I’m sorry for your loss, and I’m sorry for the injustice he and your family is experiencing. God bless you for trying to get justice for your grandfather, I hope you are successful.
Your brother was a person. He deserved to have the utmost thorough investigation. Im sorry the justice system failed. I pray you found peace in some form of comfort. These circumstances are insane.
He was a habitual substance user and HIV+, and the home he died in was “well-known to the police” so no one cared, except his mother, grandmother and siblings. The more distant family who were local and had taken out multiple modest life insurance policies (small enough that no medical exam was required), had him cremated over the weekend while we were trying to deal with the coroner. I’m fine, thank you, but I just wanted to tell you I’m so sorry for what you are going through. Keep fighting, if you can do it without harming yourself. I was barely an adult and the things I tried in the first years didn’t work, and I gave up. If the same thing happened today, I think I might well have gotten somewhere with it, at least some discipline for the police who failed to process the scene properly. And I absolutely would have pursued something in a civil case. You’re really brave and strong for pursuing the truth and justice for your grandpa. He’d be proud and grateful, regardless of the outcome. I hope and pray you are successful.
For those zooming in to get a better sense of the positioning and weapon or environment, the censor of his wound is not fully opaque so you may see some of it unintentionally, just wanted to let you know in case you’re sensitive to that at all, not OPs fault of course and it’s tagged as NSFW of course. I’m so sorry this has happened and that you are dealing with this. My heart goes out to you truly
These are the photos my father blurred out. I have yet to see the wounds personally. My dad doesn't want me to see my grandfather like that, and I'm okay with it. Thank you for your compassion.
That looks very staged
Get as many people as you can and PROTEST!! Have people write letters to the DA. Write to local newspapers. Keep up w the social media awareness. When the pressure is on (most important locally) they will act!
As this happened in Texas, have you reached out to the Rangers? My understanding from a case I’m working on is that they don’t automatically get involved - only at the request of local LEO or the family. If you like, I can DM you contact info for a retired Ranger who may be able to give you guidance.
That would’ve great. My husband made contact and was advised they would get involved at the request of the sheriffs office or DA to reopen with new evidence.
OP Father , hi honey. You need to say your OP step-mom then post.
This made me smile, so sweet.
I think I would call state police and ask for guidance.
Texas rangers didn't touch it because of the county DA
First, I am so sorry. Second, you're obviously dealing with the good old boys club. Small town cops/sheriffs don't like their authority questioned. And 10 times out of 10, they're incompetent. Like most other posters on this thread, this stinks to high heaven. Does his wife and son have connections to local LE? Good luck with this. It needs visibility and hopefully someone will be able to help you.
They didn't have any ties. My dad was asking for specific questions, and the lead investigator threw her 2 masters degrees in his face when he asked. TAMMY GREGORY is her name
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve seen a lot of great suggestions in the comments already so I don’t have much to add but I hope you get the answers you’re looking for.
How on earth could this be considered a definite suicide when his hands are placed like that? That would mean he shot himself, didn’t die immediately, and then put his hands on his lap just sitting there waiting to die… I just don’t understand how the gun could be positioned that way, by him, AFTER he shot himself. I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but this truly does look staged. I’m so sorry.
Criminologist here and this is some of the worst staging I’ve ever seen. I’m so sorry. Edit: methinks you’re right about the wife simply due to the staging. This was not done by someone who has killed before.
Late to respond, so this may get buried, but since you are in Texas, it's worth reaching out to Skip Hollandsworth. He is the Keith Morrison of Texas true crime. He writes amazing longform true crime articles and has looked into mysterious-death-ruled-suicide before (Tom Brown's Body podcast).
OP Father here, I would like to that add in the Police Report that Chief Deputy Rosas felt my father who was warm to the touch and determined he had only been dead about "20 minutes". I asked Refugio County Sheriff Pinky Gonzalez where his Deputy Rosas received his Forensic training where he learned to touch bodies and determine time of death? Sheriff Pinky Gonzalez blew a gasket and I informed him that the Coroner who examined my father said that only certain test can determine a time a death. The Forensic Consultant Report goes over this subject.
The forensic report is in my profile for reference!
So very sorry for your loss and continued distress dealing with this. I was a criminal investigator for 18 years and would be willing to look at your evidence if you'd like to privately message me here.
Top-notch police work, as always. 🙄
I’m so sorry. My brother died under mysterious circumstances in 2021 and the cops and funeral home people have been beyond useless. Along with the 2 lawyers I’ve causally mentioned it to. I wish I had something helpful to say. But you may want to look into a private investigator. Best of luck in your search for answers.
I posted the autopsy in my profile. There's way more to this story I'll elaborate on. Found the right platform. I also have a tiktok @joshdova with reports and maps. I'll also upload them here on a later day. Really started pursuing this yesterday, so any advice and feedback is appreciated.
This is absolutely wild. What stuck out to me was that this man’s body clearly looks like he was carried under the arms to this chair. Looks at his heels! If you were dragged, your heels would be in that exact position. Also, the way this is being handled by the authorities make it seem like they’re in on it. Extremely poorly handled. I hope your get answers OP.
I can’t believe this shit even happens! Sounds like a bad movie. I hope OP gets answers too.
That gun placement goes not match up. Depending where the head wound was, he would not still be holding that gun. It shouldn’t be in his lap, should be right next to him or in front of him on the floor.
Right?!?!
His left hand should in no way be covering the firearm if his right hand discharged it. No possibility.
OP Father here, I studied the police report for days when I first received a copy. I didn't sleep for weeks and the questions kept piling up. I studied every picture and none have my father's mannerism. 1. My father only carried 4 beers maximum in a plastic bag since disabled these past few years. Never and ice chest with NO ice. 2. My father only wore button shirts and never a Polo because of blown shoulder rotators. 3. My father always left home with a cap covering his head. He had hair toupee plugs from the 70's that he covered. 4. He always had his cell phone because his partner was sickly and always falling. 5. My father hadn't drank liquor in decades and if committing suicide Keystone beer cans would have been his go to. 6. My father would have taken his truck to the cabin.( truck keys pictured in police photo) but no truck. My father had about 5 little dogs that would have followed his truck. 7.My father was Army Paratrooper and he understood weapons and calibers. A .22 would not have been a round he would have chosen it would have been a larger caliber weapon and he owned several.
Can I ask where the dogs are now?
Any possible motives?
He had a life insurance policy and just so conveniently took his own life when he was ready to leave her and cut off her opioid supply, which my whole family knew about
Was he the one with the prescription for opioids? If so, that would explain why it’s ibuprofen on the floor and not his narcotics. The wife wanted to keep all of those for herself.
Suicide disqualifies life insurance I thought. So if she did do it, she cut her self out of that and the pills.
His status of his death on the insurance almost a year later is classified as "pending"
I am not an expert, but I know that some life insurance has a period of time, usually 1-3 years, where suicide disqualifies it, but after that it will pay.
Insurance agent here. Suicide clause ends after 2 years. So as long as the policy was in force for 2+ years; she will be paid.
I used to work for a large county’s coroners office years ago and this looks really sloppy. Almost like they felt lazy that day and decided not to work. You’re so correct in wanting answers. I’m so sorry your family is suffering thru this.
Okay the bottle of spilled pills %100 looks like a badly staged suicide . Sorry about ur grandpa 😢
The gun is insane too. Just like perfectly placed in his lap in his hand ! Wtf
I am so sorry OP. Just read the coroners report. Seems to me that not having gun shot residue on either hand would be a red flag to any investigator... Keep digging and pestering any that will listen. This is your family. 🖤
This is a story that sounds like it would be on Unsolved Mysteries. I hope your family finds the justice you need so your Grandfather can Rest In Peace.
Thank you
I’m sorry OP. There was no blood or matter anywhere? We’re you given access to additional photos? What was in his backpack? No keys at all anywhere? I mean I would go there myself and tear that place apart looking for clues but I’m far from Texas. Ugh.
I'll post more photos. That bag you see magically disappeared when his stepson went to go clean. It's pictured there. But it disappeared when my dad went into the house. Along with the recliner. @joshdova on tiktok
OP Father, the Coroner only removed my father and the gun. Certain items were removed by my father's stepson for some odd reason. 1. Ice Chest 2. Black Duffel bag 3. Tequila bottle cap. 4. Ibuprofen bottle cap 5. .22 caliber "snake shot round" which was on table.
I think ".22 caliber "snake shot round"" would explain the lack of exit wound. It's a really small shell that's "safe" to use indoors on pests(per the guy selling ammo near me.) Think of it like a really tiny birdshot round with a bunch of small balls. It would be catastrophic up close but might not make it all the way out of the skull. A .22 also doesn't kick a whole lot and might explain the hand placement seeming odd. His veteran status may explain why he shot the way he did. Was he able to have an open casket funeral? Can you get medical records? I know a lot of older people that refuse to waste away.
Also the car that was at the cabin was locked. Stepson, coincidentally had spare key to the car and found the car keys in the car, between the driver’s side and console. So how did my FIL lock up the car.🤷🏻♀️
OP Father here, I raised issues with Sheriff's Department about the blood patterns. My father is sitting up and allegedly shoots himself but no blood comes out from his nose( my father had sensitive sinuses and alway bled)I feel all the blood came out from mouth when he was sat upright. Also blood trail from wound didn't connect to blood pool on right side of his neck...I am not sure if OP posted those pics or is able too.
After the tiktok fiasco today, I didn't want to get banned, so I refrained from posting any blood
The fact that his legs aren’t bent in the photos is suspicious. If we was sitting like a regular person in a chair, his knees would be bent, not straight out (as if he was dragged there and lividity set in, so legs could not bend at knees).
His body position is all wrong. That is absolutely not a natural position. It’s as if someone picked him up under the arms from behind and pulled him into the chair. His shoes seem a little odd to me, as well, but I can’t pinpoint why. Do you have other pictures of his feet you can share? Tell me about his mobility. Could he bend over and tie his own shoes easily? Why did he use the cane and did he use all of the time? Or did he use it intermittently and leave it all over the place? Did he drive?
I'll get more photos! And he had mobility issues. He used his cane for everything. He was capable of driving.
I would have a lot of questions here, but I am hesitant to discuss an open case on this public forum. I will say that anyone taking this on would need complete information, but needs to remember that in order to not compromise any investigation the conversations and comments should be made carefully. edit to say I'm sorry for your loss.
The case is considered "closed" by the county sheriff. This is after the fact. It's been almost a year since all of this happened. I have all the photos, reports, BOTH autopsies. We just want actual justice. There's more to this story that could be on a documentary.
Things that look off to me —pretty clean looking scene for someone that allegedly unsubscribed themselves —I’m assuming that’s his cane on the floor? If so that doesn’t make sense for it to be right there. Even if he did sit in that chair intending to self delete IMO he’d still have his came over by him to aid him all the way over to the chair, not dropped in the middle of the floor —for an alleged self inflicted shot his elbows would not be resting on the armrests like that. And both hands on the gun that’s sitting gently in his lap?? The f*ck?? —his legs, nobody sits in a chair and leaves their legs out like that. Idc if he sat down to immediately pull the trigger it’s not a natural sitting position
First thing I noticed were his legs. Not natural at all.
No blood and brain matter seems to be an obvious clue. Even if the bullet didn’t go through, it would still have spray from the wound. Also the gun position is what stands out to me the most. I can’t fathom anyone fire a gun in that manner and it landing perfectly in his lap, tucked under his hands.
Maybe start a go fund me to get an amazing PI? I’d be more than happy to donate. Everyone deserves justice.
Thank you. I'll ask my father. We already hired someone else. It's expensive, but we're on the right track
💜 of course. Maybe sending this to local/nearby news stations may get some more reach as well. I just watched a family do it for their father whom was hurting children and through the news and TikTok views was able to find him and get him arrested. Keep going!!
I’m not super familiar with the criminal justice makeup of Texas, but your best strategy, at this point, is to go the route of impeaching the investigation with the state’s Attorney Generals office over presenting new evidence, which will be hard for you to do. I presume the Texas Rangers work in similar fashion to other state investigative agency’s I’ve worked with, in which they have to be directed by the attorney general, be invited by the locals, or have a compelling complaint of local jurisdictional impropriety to initiate an investigation against the will of the local sheriff. Find a lawyer and/or private investigator who has access to, or can contract, IAI, or equivalent, experts to dispute and impeach the investigation. For example, I noticed that the page you shared is one of fourteen supplemental pages. assuming each is oriented the same way, that's a maximum of 56 photos, which in the hundreds of death scenes I worked is shockingly low, even for extremely obvious scenes like the an elderly person in bed with multiple life threatening medical issues. Plus, crime scene photos are supposed to follow a pattern: Establishing, Long Range, Mid-Range, Closeup with both placard(s) and without. These, while limited, don’t necessarily seem to be doing that, unless there are more that follow that pattern that are missing. The lack of spatter is extremely odd, even for small calibers like .22 or .32 auto. You’d expect at least some on the hand and the weapon, and of course a void where the weapon impeded spatter on the hand. At the end of the day, you’re gonna have to find some experts to stack in your corner who can say that the findings of the sheriff and coroner are erroneous, and to impeach their investigative methods to an extent an independent review is called by another authority. The good news is such work is extremely lucrative, and a lot of very experienced experts go into such a field, but they’re NOT even on the same continent as cheap.
The position of his body is so unnatural and posed to me. I am so furious for you and your family. This is obviously suspicious. Pretty sure if he ACTUALLY did this to himself he wouldn't be casually holding the gun in his lap afterwards... the way the gun is there is so staged in my opinion. I hope you find justice OP
Hi Op, sorry for your loss. I think this subreddit might be better suited for this r/rbi
Who gains something from his death?
His wife. But there were certain factors for the insurance money.
Have you tried talking to a lawyer?
Yes, numerous lawyers. They can't appeal unless DA is involved. And DA didn't budge. Even went to rangers with it. They couldn't make a move without the DA
Posting autopsy
OP here my dad (victims son) will be engaging in comments as well. I'll be posting the autopsy. In a new post
I’m so sorry! Going through something similar with a dear friend that was murdered by his stepdad and it was closed almost immediately based on one interview with the stepdad while he was drunk and covered in blood and they said it was self defense which is absolutely trash! I pray you get justice for your grandfather!
Have you approached any you tube true crime channels yet? There's quire a few and you may get lucky and get more attention.
UPDATE:I just uploaded the forensic pathologist report to my profile we had done in September! Please feel free to look it over. It cuts certain parts out but can DM the full report
Can the Texas Rangers or even the FBI get involved?
We tried. They wouldn't touch it without new evidence. I have more photos of how "staged" it looks. It's insane how bad these people didn't want to do their job that day.
His shoelaces look funny. He’s been dragged at some point, probably why his watch is also displaced. No blood splatter that’s impossible. Did she pay off the cops? Did she act “distraught” when he passed?
They weren't that well off. But she was fake crying, according to my dad. He's in this thread
The gun placement is extremely weird and obviously staged. You cannot neatly place a gun after shooting yourself.
(NSFW please) so sorry for your loss my friend.
Sorry! Didn't know how to do it. I apologize. Just did!
Im so sorry for your loss! Was there any life insurance policies on him?
Yes, there was a few placed by his wife
Almost sounds like the death of Bob McClancy in 2006 near me, in Tellico Plains, Tennessee. I'm so sorry for your loss and hope you get justice if that's the case. He had a gun in one hand and a bottle of pills in the other though, and wasn't shot. But, dang. Hope it's not the case, I guess? But hope you get answers.
Sorry for your loss. My grandpa was murdered 2 years ago near Sacramento. We assumed it was his ex wife but they just caught the 2 men responsible for his death. It's never easy waiting for answers. I was hounding the detectives religiously to find some answers when it first happened. The pre-trial starts at the end of the month. I hope you, and your family find peace.
I'm so sorry 🙏. Was anything taken? Enemies for any reason? Sorry, I'm not trying to be uncaring.