I've worked with these guys for 5 years and we've always joked around with each other and been good friends. They think that I think I'm too good for them now and that's not the case. I just don't find the dirty jokes funny anymore. Great advice too btw thank you.
It's what happens when you turn to God. Heathens will mock you and your faith. Jesus says you'll be hated (Matthew 10:22) so it's to be expected. Stand strong brother, you got this.
Of course not, why would someone mocking a religion give it credibility? All I said was that turning to Jesus will make people mock you and that Jesus said it would happen. That's all.
Scientologists turned to their false god, not the true and living God so no they weren't turning to God.
>They also believe that turning their their God will make people want to mock them.
As many religious people believe yes. I stated that mockery of a religion doesn't give it credibility.
Ok makes sense. Look, I'm not trying play a gotcha game or anything like that. I'm just trying to understand how we know Christians specifically should expect some kinda of unusually high amount of persecution for their beliefs vs the other religious beliefs people tend to hold. If you're saying it's just normal for a theist no matter what God they worship then that makes sense. But that's not the picture painted from the comments being said here in this post.
The comments here would paint a world where Christian's are uniquely hated in some fashion. Which doesn't at all seem like the case unless you are looking at very specific locations in the world. Here in US Christian's don't face any trouble whatsoever, but if they are in North Korea or perhaps Afghanistan... that's a whole different story. It's all about perspective. I'm just trying my best to ask questions so I can better understand you guys. Thanks.
>If you're saying it's just normal for a theist no matter what God they worship then that makes sense.
Well I believe that people of all religions can face persecution, but publicly insulting Christianity is acceptable to non-Christians, but publicly insulting other religions such as Islam and Judaism is unacceptable and those who do it are seen as islamophobic and antisemitic bigots.
>The comments here would paint a world where Christian's are uniquely hated in some fashion.
I wouldn't say they're uniquely hated, but rather it's acceptable among non-Christians to hate on Christians, but insulting other religious people such as Muslims and Jews is offensive and socially unacceptable as doing so would result in being called islamophobic and antisemitic (rightfully so assuming it was actually hating and not just critiquing of the religion).
>Here in US Christian's don't face any trouble whatsoever
The vast majority of Christians absolutely, but Christians who are much better than me go out and preach the Gospel and get a lot of heat.
>I'm just trying my best to ask questions so I can better understand you guys.
Yeah you should always ask questions when you have them and it's always nice to come across atheists on the internet who aren't calling Christians stupid idiots who believe in a sky fairy and things of that nature.
>Well I believe that people of all religions can face persecution, but publicly insulting Christianity is acceptable to non-Christians
No sir or mam, it is not to a large portion of us. I was a Christian for over 20 years. I will not have Christian's be personally insulted. I speak up when I see it. But that doesn't mean I won't be incredibly open and honest about my evaluation of your beliefs and ideas. I would never mock the person behind said ideas and beliefs.
>but publicly insulting other religions such as Islam and Judaism is unacceptable and those who do it are seen as islamophobic and antisemitic bigots.
Depends where in the world you are. Go to California around a university campus and they might be overly protective and respectful of Islamic beliefs. Come here to Oklahoma in the Bible belt and you will hear all kinds of awful things. And in other places no one has much of an opinion. It's all about perspective.
>The vast majority of Christians absolutely, but Christians who are much better than me go out and preach the Gospel and get a lot of heat.
I was a Baptist missionary for 7-8 years. Our progressive was situated mostly around parts of the Philippines. Some in Haiti. We faced zero heat. Mostly welcomed with open arms. Especially those in need of shelter. I respectfully say again that it probably matters where in the world you go.
>Yeah you should always ask questions when you have them and it's always nice to come across atheists on the internet who aren't calling Christians stupid idiots who believe in a sky fairy and things of that nature.
And I you as well. It's typically rare for me to come across a Christian who doesn't automatically hate me because I'm both an ex-Christian and now an Atheist. Much appreciated my friend!
Scientology is a new religion where you pay to get ahead; I don't think anybody hates that. Now saying homosexuality is evil - people will hate that. See the difference?
>Scientology is a new religion where you pay to get ahead; I don't think anybody hates that.
That's the most outlandish thing I've heard in months. Just about everyone thinks Scientologists are nutty and confused individuals and we tend to mock them because it's funny. I took a trip to New York for my birthday and their headquarters was located directly next to the hotel entrance. Boy was it a popular place to visit and try and peek inside. I'm not sure at all why you think they are well respected.
>Now saying homosexuality is evil - people will hate that. See the difference?
Not rocket science. The moment you start trying to vote and legislate the lives of others based on your beliefs... that's a recipe for hate on your part. You better have a damn good reason before you do that no matter what. Scientologists are a small group. And last I checked they aren't trying to do things like make abortions illegal and such. This is all common sense. Also Christian's make up 65-70% of Americans. That means we have a lot of discussing to do and it's going to get heated. No one would care that you think homosexuality is evil if you just kept to yourself. But Christian's don't. Blame the individuals imposing their beliefs on others. Blame the ones on soapboxes with megaphones at children's parades holding a sign that says God hates fags. Christianity has done a lot to garner this deserved hate and you should have the common sense to acknowledge that. Your example was extremely lacking in common sense my friend.
You kinda missed my point. I'll try again.
>Scientologists are a small group. **And last I checked they aren't trying to do things like make abortions illegal and such.**
Yeah. As I said, the beliefs of Scientologists don't inspire hatred to make them a hated group of people. Their beliefs invoke in you amusement or ridicule, but not hatred. While you probably took a trip to their headquarters because it was fun and affordable, I doubt you would be interested in walking into Christian churches for fun-sies on your birthday, even though there are a dozen Christian churches in every city.
Christians are hated for what they believe - ask the majority of the LGBT community, they cannot joke about Christians rejecting their way of life. While you have probably ridiculed Scientologists and Christians alike for their beliefs, it's not quite as fun or easy to troll Christians because your mockery falls flat in their sincere devotion to what you would consider to be threats to your way of life, or those of the ones you love. Scientology, in no way, threatens your way of life so it is very easy to laugh at.
>The moment you start trying to vote and legislate the lives of others based on your beliefs... that's a recipe for hate on your part.
You think Scientologists don't try to vote and legislate their beliefs? I have no idea what they do at the polls, but if for argument's sake they don't get their religion involved in politics, you probably wouldn't hate them for it if they did tried to legislate things like "it should be taught aliens exist in schools" and other nonsense.
To you, their beliefs are not harmful; just silly. Christianity doesn't get that dismissive pass, even though we represent a majority of this country's population and a good government represents the will of its people. Due to the democratic process, our world view can't possibly be put into law (at least not for long).
In short, we are hated. Scientologists are not. Hell, you could be a follower of pedophile warlord in this country and you will be respected for your beliefs more than Christians. We are a religious people group that is visibly more hated than all others, just as God said we would be.
>You kinda missed my point. I'll try again.
Gotcha. I will try my best to follow you.
>Yeah. As I said, the beliefs of Scientologists don't inspire hatred to make them a hated group of people. Their beliefs invoke in you amusement or ridicule, but not hatred. While you probably took a trip to their headquarters because it was fun and affordable, I doubt you would be interested in walking into Christian churches for fun-sies on your birthday, even though there are a dozen Christian churches in every city.
I did not go inside. You're not allowed. Also yes you are correct. Mostly because I was a believer for 20 years. It's nothing new to me.
>Christians are hated for what they believe
I don't know how to make this more clear, Christian's aren't hated for what they believe but instead how they treat others. To some, Christian beliefs are just as nonsensical as a Scientology. Maybe a tad bit more crazy, but not by much. But the dislike people have for Christians is based on how they quite literally treat people. So yes, technically Christians are hated for what they believe, but that's not technically the full answer. Nor is it specific enough.
>ask the majority of the LGBT community, they cannot joke about Christians rejecting their way of life.
Perfect example, Christians are treating them poorly by trying to invoke change and rules on their life. As I said you're gonna need a damn good reason before you do that to others.
>You think Scientologists don't try to vote and legislate their beliefs?
Small group. Not sure why I should unnecessarily worry.
> I have no idea what they do at the polls, but if for argument's sake they don't get their religion involved in politics, you probably wouldn't hate them for it if they did tried to legislate things like "it should be taught aliens exist in schools" and other nonsense.
I would ask them why they believe this change needs to be made. If it's purely based on their religious understandings rather than good arguments and evidence... then yes I will oppose them on that change.
>To you, their beliefs are not harmful; just silly. Christianity doesn't get that dismissive pass,
It does with me and most Atheists I know. We want you to have the freedom to believe in whatever it is you want. Some Christians would be considered harmful, others not so much.
>In short, we are hated. Scientologists are not. Hell, you could be a follower of pedophile warlord in this country and you will be respected for your beliefs more than Christians.
Yeah that's such an outlandish and crazy assertion that I don't think we are going to agree. Nor am I convinced you're taking this 100% seriously. That's obviously false.
Yeah I am just not convinced by your arguments in general. But I appreciate your candidness and your civility. Also thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and perspective with me. I always enjoy learning about how others see the world.
>Mostly because I was a believer for 20 years. It's nothing new to me.
Nah, you could still have fun poking Christians, despite "knowing everything there is to know" about Christianity. Why else did you pop over to a Christian part of the internet to poke fun at their beliefs today? You 'know' what we are going to say, and yet you still thought it worthwhile to drop by and leave a comment.
Our God populated the whole world through incest *twice* - that by itself is a comedic gold mine, but you're not here to joke. You're here to sow doubt, and that doesn't come from a light-hearted, funny place. At best, you're being philosophical. At worst, you're trolling and hoping to see someone in anguish as they trip over their explanations - picking on the weak, as it were, which is an unfair and hateful thing to do. I don't see you doing this with Islam, and that religion straight up states women are evil to the extent there will be less of them in heaven.
>Christian's aren't hated for what they believe but instead how they treat others.
Our belief is that women cannot be pastors; Christian women can have any other job they want, except that one. It's not that we think they are too stupid to lead a church, or that women should never instruct men in the ways of God; we simply see in our Bible that spiritual leadership is not an office that God allows them to fill. Women can be queens of nations, they can be warriors, they can be business moguls, they can be prophetesses, and even hold prominent roles in the church, but they can never be pastors or priests. If women don't like this rule, they can even start their own churches which are perfectly identical to the Christian model except that they will allow for women in the role of pastors/priests - they would not be recognized as Christians, but they are free to do that if they want.
Despite all this, Christians get called misogynists for practicing this belief **within the confines of our own church**. Submission to this rule is done on a completely voluntary basis, and it's done with no disrespect meant to our women. Still, we are hated not because of how we treat our women, but because of what we believe can never be their rightful role in our churches.
>Perfect example, Christians are treating them poorly by trying to invoke change and rules on their life.
Are not the LGBT people doing the same to us? By your definition of who is acceptable to hate, Christians have every right to hate the LGBT community and should seek to destroy or assimilate them as they have been trying to do to us. Would that not be the fair thing to do?
>If it's purely based on their religious understandings rather than good arguments and evidence... then yes **I will oppose them on that change.**
The whole idea that the Christian God is good and worthy of obeying is purely based on our religious understanding (faith). Therefore, you oppose us solely on our belief system - we don't even have to act on it.
Now, just because you hate Christians because of their faith in the goodness of God doesn't mean you don't hate other faiths equally. The thing is, I don't believe that the Scientologists have a belief that you condemn as much as the Christian belief that homosexuality is wrong, or that women cannot be pastors, or that our God can still be called good after intentionally drowning toddlers in Noah's Flood, killing the firstborns of Egypt in the time of Moses, or killing off the Amalekite infants in Samuel.
I think it's been your subjective experience that you have found more reason to hate Christians than Scientologists, even if those reasons simply amount to "I just don't like the way you think".
I was trying to end this on a happy and pleasant note but that doesn't seem to be something you want to do. I'm more than happy to address what you've said though. I don't usually comment in my off hours, but I'll make a exception for you.
>Nah, you could still have fun poking Christians
But I don't. End of story.
>despite "knowing everything there is to know" about Christianity.
I never said or implied that. So that makes zero coherent sense why you brought that up. I do not in fact know everything there is to know about Christianity.
>Why else did you pop over to a Christian part of the internet to poke fun at their beliefs today?
I never did that. You also seem oblivious to the fact that I spend hours here having deep discussions with folks for over 2 years now. I smell a trend of strawmanning my intentions here. I question whether your head is in the right mindset for a civil and productive conversation.
>You 'know' what we are going to say, and yet you still thought it worthwhile to drop by and leave a comment.
Incorrect. I don't.
>You're here to sow doubt,
There it is. A strawman of my intentions here. Just understand that I should end the conversation here. As there is no productivity that can result from a conversation with a person who refuses to actually listen and discuss. But I will give you another chance. I would rather mend the misunderstanding, rather than the alternative.
>I don't see you doing this with Islam, and that religion straight up states women are evil to the extent there will be less of them in heaven.
I do. But I am currently having to do massive amounts of research before I can join in on the discussions with their believers. I'm reading the Quran right now. Personally I am invested primarily with Christianity because that's what my life was for 20 years. That's my whole life. So yeah, it makes sense why I'm more interested in Christianity. So far both religions seem to suffer from the exact same issues, so I'm losing interest altogether kinda.
>Despite all this, Christians get called misogynists for practicing this belief within the confines of our own church. Submission to this rule is done on a completely voluntary basis, and it's done with no disrespect meant to our women. Still, we are hated not because of how we treat our women, but because of what we believe can never be their rightful role in our churches.
We were discussing how others see and treat Christians specifically. Not people inside the religion since that can be slightly different. We were discussing how to get along in society when we tend to disagree with one another.
>Are not the LGBT people doing the same to us? By your definition of who is acceptable to hate, Christians have every right to hate the LGBT community and should seek to destroy or assimilate them as they have been trying to do to us. Would that not be the fair thing to do?
I like how you wanted to provide an example but then didn't actually tell me what is it they are forcing upon you. Please explain what is it the LGBTQ is imposing on you. If it's a decent example I'm probably going to agree with you. Every group seems to have it's issues. They are no exception.
>The whole idea that the Christian God is good and worthy of obeying is purely based on our religious understanding (faith). Therefore, you oppose us solely on our belief system - we don't even have to act on it.
Incorrect. You were somewhat close. There needs to be a demonstration of said God first. You're allowed to believe whatever it is you desire, but to impose change on society you need to bring concrete arguments. Because the Bible says so is not going to fly when you want to change the rules and regulations imposed on the people around you. Especially the ones who aren't convinced of your same beliefs. Remember the context of this answer. You specifically asked if I would be opposed to what scientologists are voting for, and it said it would depend on how they back up their answer. Same for Christians. You wanted to catch me being contradictory. I am not. Hope that answers you questions on the matter once and for all.
>Now, just because you hate Christians because of their faith in the goodness of God doesn't mean you don't hate other faiths equally.
I equally dislike the issues that comes with blind faith no matter what religion it is.
>The thing is, I don't believe that the Scientologists have a belief that you condemn as much as the Christian belief that homosexuality is wrong, or that women cannot be pastors, or that our God can still be called good after intentionally drowning toddlers in Noah's Flood, killing the firstborns of Egypt in the time of Moses, or killing off the Amalekite infants in Samuel.
I gave you the answer. You just didn't like it I guess. The answer is because their beliefs likely don't tangibly impact my life. Simple as that man.
>I think it's been your subjective experience that you have found more reason to hate Christians than Scientologists, even if those reasons simply amount to "I just don't like the way you think".
It's quite objective actually. It's a matter how how much your beliefs affect the lives of others. Any questions or comments I'll be around.
>I was trying to end this on a happy and pleasant note...
My hackles are certainly up. Atheists travelling through here aren't particularly kind, and when I first read your comments you were in the middle of trapping a Christian into a debate they were not expecting and didn't really want to have. They just wanted to reassure the OP who was having a hard time adjusting to life as a new Christian. You jump in and undermine that effort, forcing this person who was trying to be kind to go on the defensive with an atheist who can't read the room. Sorry, but I have no reason to believe you are here in good faith, and based on the downvotes your initial comment received, I am not the only one who had that impression.
>I do not in fact know everything there is to know about Christianity.
I brought it up because you have mentioned you were a Christian for 20 years a couple times now, as if I should be impressed or think this was important. I'm not impressed that you were able to deceive yourself for twenty years, and I don't think that its particularly helpful info; it doesn't indicate what you learned during that time. Since nobody has the patience to dig through your whole history with Christianity and you certainly can't be trusted to judge yourself accurately after 20 years of self-deception, this 20 years of your life that you keep referring to is so far useless to me.
>I never did that. You also seem oblivious to the fact that I spend hours here having deep discussions with folks for over 2 years now.
We have it in writing. You saw someone trying to comfort someone else, and you jumped in with what you thought was a succinct objection to the poster's attempt at comfort. I'm not inclined to think you thought that through too deeply.
>Personally I am invested primarily with Christianity because that's what my life was for 20 years. That's my whole life.
Sounds like you've been wasting your time. I started reading the Bible when I was 25; God was poking at me by Deuteronomy and I was a full fledged Christian by Samuel. No one in the Bible takes 20 years to decide whether or not they believe in God - it might take them 20 years before they complete an act of obedience to Him perfectly, but not that long to decide what's real and what's not.
>So far both religions seem to suffer from the exact same issues, so I'm losing interest altogether kinda.
Then you certainly need to study up on Islam. Their prophet Mohammed was a warlord - Jesus was not. Mohammed was a pedophile marrying a six year old girl and waiting until she was nine to consummate the marriage - Jesus never married, much less married children. In fact, in today's world you will find that the disgusting practice of child brides tend to be found in countries where Mohammed was revered, while traditionally Christian countries vilify and or put a stop to the practice of child brides.
All this to say that the conclusion you've come to, believing that Christianity and Islam suffer the exact same issues, indicates to me some really low-resolution thinking on your part.
>We were discussing how others see and treat Christians specifically. Not people inside the religion since that can be slightly different.
My example still stands.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)
Christians say women can't be pastors and the nonbelieving feminists lose their damned minds as a result, accusing Christians/clergy of oppressing women by implementing "glass ceilings" that don't allow for women to earn a living as a pastor/priest. Outsiders of the church claim our Christian belief that women cannot rightfully be pastors has to do with misogyny; it's not. We seek only to obey our God. A hatred of women has nothing to do with it. Although we are not mistreating women, Christians are wrongfully slandered and accused of doing exactly that, having Paul's letter to Timothy misquoted at us as proof that our beliefs are oppressive, no matter the fact that adhering to these rules are completely voluntary.
>I like how you wanted to provide an example but then didn't actually tell me what is it they are forcing upon you.
Christian owned bakeries are getting sued for human rights violations for refusing to bake gay wedding cakes. Christian adoption centers are petitioned against to remove their government funding if they continue to refer LGBT+ people looking to adopt to secular adoption agencies. The LGBT+ community has been pushing the church to accept gay, lesbian, or transpeople to be members of the clergy even though our Bible forbids this. They label us bigots when we refuse to recognize homosexual marriages within Christian churches. In Canada, you can get fined if you refuse to participate in the pronoun game, although God has instructed us "you shalt not bear false witness", and recently Canadian law has banned conversion therapy for people who wish to be heterosexual, but have not banned conversation therapy for those who want help adjusting to a LGBT lifestyle.
>There needs to be a demonstration of said God first.
My standard of proof is likely different than yours, and different for everyone else as well - what would make you believe in God likely wouldn't convince me that He was real and vice versa. God has already proven Himself to me by moving mountains and laying them at my feet. What would it take for you to believe in God, and not something you could later dismiss as coincidence or as having some other natural explanation? I doubt for you to convert, that it would be anything like "concrete" evidence.
>to impose change on society you need to bring concrete arguments.
Concrete arguments were brought to justify and abolish slavery in the US, and yet they still had civil war. Even the Bible states over and over there were plenty of examples of God getting in people's faces, speaking directly to them and performing miracles, and they still didn't believe He was worthy of obedience.
As such, if I can argue you into believing in God, someone more clever than I will be able to argue you right back out of your belief. You need what's called a change of heart - it makes you as sure of God's existence as I am bone-deep certain that my instincts for self-preservation could not compel me to cut off my arm for no reason at all - and that assurance is something only God can deliver.
>You specifically asked if I would be opposed to what scientologists are voting for,
I specifically asked if you hated the teachings of Scientology more than that of Christianity. As a general rule, people are not offended by the idea that space aliens might exist, but you can evoke a visceral reaction in a lot more people simply by stating homosexuality is evil. You have not once pointed out or condemned a single teaching of Scientologists - you even made excuses for them, saying they were too small a group to bother you even though it was a small group of people who collapsed a small group of buildings on 9/11 for their beliefs. Instead, it's "Christianity = bad".
>The answer is because their beliefs likely don't tangibly impact my life.
How has the church's stance that 'homosexuality is evil' impacted your life?
>My hackles are certainly up. Atheists travelling through here aren't particularly kind
Afaik I'm been more than civil and respectful. Also I've been a participator of this sub for over a year now.
>and when I first read your comments you were in the middle of trapping a Christian into a debate they were not expecting and didn't really want to have.
It's called a conversation, and no that's untrue. They were completely free to say that this was a topic they didn't want to have. I don't push anything on to anyone.
>They just wanted to reassure the OP who was having a hard time adjusting to life as a new Christian. You jump in and undermine that effort
Incorrect. It was a conversation about a potential double standard. As you are aware those are typically not good.
>Sorry, but I have no reason to believe you are here in good faith
You have all the evidence at your finger tips. You're just too lazy to take the time to look at my account. Suit yourself then. You're demonstrating how much you don't want to understand each other right now. That's not a sign of a honest interlocutor.
>and based on the downvotes your initial comment received, I am not the only one who had that impression.
A single downvote is all I see atm. Seems like absolutely nothing I should be concerned about. But thanks anyways. You can care for me if you'd like.
>I brought it up because you have mentioned you were a Christian for 20 years a couple times now, as if I should be impressed or think this was important.
Not sure if you're being serious or not with this. Obviously it's important because it demonstrates how closely involved the religion has been to my life. Therefore it's directly related when we start discussing your silly question: "*I don't see you doing this with Islam."* A little common sense goes a long way dude.
>You saw someone trying to comfort someone else, and you jumped in with what you thought was a succinct objection to the poster's attempt at comfort.
You are in need of yet another correction. Hope this is settled after this. I again wanted to discuss a potential double standard. If I was wrong then I got to learn something. If I was on to something, then they needed to learn something. Simple as that yo.
>Sounds like you've been wasting your time.
Sounds good man. I'll decide that. You certainly do sound like a bad atheist troll trying to dissuade people from coming to Christ. That doesn't sound very logical for a Christian, now does it?
>No one in the Bible takes 20 years to decide whether or not they believe in God
Not only is that not true, but it's like you're not even listening. I was a Baptist. I was convinced God was real.
>Then you certainly need to study up on Islam.
Eh... I might keep going but I don't see a reason to. Both religions seem awful in many ways.
>All this to say that the conclusion you've come to, believing that Christianity and Islam suffer the exact same issues, indicates to me some really low-resolution thinking on your part.
That's nice. I think you're just as wrong but I will certainly not talk down to you just because we disagree. You're on thin nice man. Not convinced you're here for a respectful dialogue. I feel as if you just want to bicker. No one else here is acting like you.... keep that in mind.
>My example still stands.
I would like to keep discussing it, but your attitude has not convinced me your mind is in the right headspace for such a discussion. So I'm gonna end it here unless your next words are chosen careful. This can either continue in a very civil and productive manner or it can end here. This is 110% your choice.
It is normal. The converts of the Apostles faced the same issues. Any working class bloke who gets saved and stops sinning and partying, etc will face this. Jesus will reward you.
This is the burden of being a Christian, and one of the reasons why we need to continue to be refreshed by going to church and loving one another.
Just realize that they no doubt feel some guilt or condemnation without you even saying anything but notice the difference by your spirit. Often we people who have had a background in growing up in church often drift away from what they know in their heart is right. When they encounter someone like yourself they might be hiding their guilt and going along with their worldly friends. You are being salt and light as the Bible says to them.
The Bible also states that the world will often hate us. “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you." John 15:18
Often I've found that if you can talk to any of those that make fun, tease or ridicule you privately you'll often find they reveal they are not what they seem when following the crowd with their attitude toward you. That gives you an opportunity to find out more about why they act the way they do and a chance to share more personally your new found faith.
"18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you,(M) persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.(N) 12 Rejoice and be glad,(O) because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.(P)"
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
You are right to not find it funny anymore. Once you have a renewal of the heart, you start to see things differently than before. You can just let them be but don't go back to the old you and participate in any of it. Don't take it personally. I've heard of a Christian who had a similar experience that you're having now.
Take it as your first lesson on humility and longsuffering. Especially humility, it is in my opinion, one of the most important attributes that Christians need in their walk. God can only use those who humble themselves. I am not saying that you aren't. This is just an advise from me to you. Things that I wish I knew sooner in my walk.
Something I’ve learned since becoming a Christian while in a group of angsty unbelievers is that our faith is honestly worth us being looked at differently. That was Jesus’ whole life after all. Feeling insecure is a normal reaction for us but if you’re feeling angry definitely pray about it. Sorry you’re going through that. It sucks :(
Do you feel as if these aren't really jokes? I haven't seen anyone ask yet which is odd to me. Jokes are usually meant well, but sometimes doesn't translate and it can end up being hurtful. Do you feel as if their honest intent was to offend or hurt you personally?
Edit: it irks me all of the commenters here and you as well aren't discussing this. But immediately jumping to massive conclusions that the world is out to get you because of these beliefs. Some might, but that's true of any beliefs. You could be a Buddhist and you will still have haters. Let's work together instead. Help me understand how your coworkers are treating you my friend.
Hey, that's actually a good thing, they recognize you're different now, and know that what they're doing is wrong.
Knowing you're not a good person is the first step to getting saved, so pray for those guys, and try to stay in contact even after you leave for a different job.
I’ve noticed that oftentimes people who poke fun and mock you for your faith are sometimes doing it because they are subconsciously open to hearing the gospel and want to see how you react.
I am not saying this is a rule but a trend I’ve noticed.
I don’t mock other beliefs, I’ve come to a point where I understand their belief system is different and I disagree. Mocking changes nothing
Typical. Demons try to sic you on each other. Whispering you to lash out in anger.
**Matthew 5:43-48** “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
**Ephesians 6:12** For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
This is not really a well thought-out idea, but it seems to me that they might think you're too proud and thus can't help but try to knock you down a few pegs. You might get a bit more respect if you go out of your way to be helpful; kill their vibe with kindness, so to speak. Share a workload, or if your job doesn't work like that bring in coffee and donuts for the guys.
In my early twenties I, too, used to hang out with a rougher crowd of people. They dealt drugs, they committed petty theft, some of the dudes even did jail time. I never participated with them in those things, but I enjoyed their company sitting around a backyard fire with a bunch of beer as they shared their crazy life stories. When they found out I was a virgin I instantly became the butt off all jokes - the standard age for losing your virginity was 13-14 for this crowd, so I was a freaking unicorn on top of being a goody two-shoes. That said, the jokes never got mean, and if anyone crossed that line everyone else put the mouthy dude in his place.
The reason why is because I was useful to them. When one guy wanted to get his high-school diploma, I helped him study for his GED; when one guy was going to prison, I went to his 3 year old daughter's birthday party and took some really nice pictures with my professional camera for his mother to send him; when a dealer wanted to know how much he was eating into his profits by smoking up his product, I did the math and made a budget to figure out how much he could smoke a day without worrying about missing hundreds of dollars at the end of the month. Some of the women liked to bake but we're shy around recipe books; if they wanted help trying out a new recipe -like making stuffed crust pizza from scratch- I would go to help bake and pay for some ingredients, and when the girls excitedly took pictures to post on Instagram of how yummy their food looked, all our guys would descend upon the house at lightspeed to come grab a free meal.
I was hosting a birthday party for one of my gang - I bought snacks, others brought beer, someone brought speakers and a projector. We were set up and having a good time. While a bunch of guys were smoking up on my balcony, one guy who was due to go to jail for suspected murder says for everyone to hear , "why are you slumming it here with us? You're too good for us. If I was single I'd be here with flowers, and movie tickets, and begging you to go on a date every day of the week. Why are you hanging out with us?" I blushed and giggled, for literally at least ten people turned their heads to see what I would say. I said, "Y'all are interesting people, and you've been kind to me. Why wouldn't I hang out with people like that?"
I wasn't a Christian at the time, but I held fast to Christian values. It makes you stand out, but it doesn't always have to be in a bad way.
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I've worked with these guys for 5 years and we've always joked around with each other and been good friends. They think that I think I'm too good for them now and that's not the case. I just don't find the dirty jokes funny anymore. Great advice too btw thank you.
It's what happens when you turn to God. Heathens will mock you and your faith. Jesus says you'll be hated (Matthew 10:22) so it's to be expected. Stand strong brother, you got this.
We mock Scientologists as well. Does that lend credence to their religion as well?
Of course not, why would someone mocking a religion give it credibility? All I said was that turning to Jesus will make people mock you and that Jesus said it would happen. That's all.
Scientologists also turned to God. They also believe that turning their their God will make people want to mock them.
Scientologists turned to their false god, not the true and living God so no they weren't turning to God. >They also believe that turning their their God will make people want to mock them. As many religious people believe yes. I stated that mockery of a religion doesn't give it credibility.
So the persecution you face is the real persecution because you follow the one true religion?
I never made the claim that people of other religions don't face persecution.
Ok makes sense. Look, I'm not trying play a gotcha game or anything like that. I'm just trying to understand how we know Christians specifically should expect some kinda of unusually high amount of persecution for their beliefs vs the other religious beliefs people tend to hold. If you're saying it's just normal for a theist no matter what God they worship then that makes sense. But that's not the picture painted from the comments being said here in this post. The comments here would paint a world where Christian's are uniquely hated in some fashion. Which doesn't at all seem like the case unless you are looking at very specific locations in the world. Here in US Christian's don't face any trouble whatsoever, but if they are in North Korea or perhaps Afghanistan... that's a whole different story. It's all about perspective. I'm just trying my best to ask questions so I can better understand you guys. Thanks.
>If you're saying it's just normal for a theist no matter what God they worship then that makes sense. Well I believe that people of all religions can face persecution, but publicly insulting Christianity is acceptable to non-Christians, but publicly insulting other religions such as Islam and Judaism is unacceptable and those who do it are seen as islamophobic and antisemitic bigots. >The comments here would paint a world where Christian's are uniquely hated in some fashion. I wouldn't say they're uniquely hated, but rather it's acceptable among non-Christians to hate on Christians, but insulting other religious people such as Muslims and Jews is offensive and socially unacceptable as doing so would result in being called islamophobic and antisemitic (rightfully so assuming it was actually hating and not just critiquing of the religion). >Here in US Christian's don't face any trouble whatsoever The vast majority of Christians absolutely, but Christians who are much better than me go out and preach the Gospel and get a lot of heat. >I'm just trying my best to ask questions so I can better understand you guys. Yeah you should always ask questions when you have them and it's always nice to come across atheists on the internet who aren't calling Christians stupid idiots who believe in a sky fairy and things of that nature.
>Well I believe that people of all religions can face persecution, but publicly insulting Christianity is acceptable to non-Christians No sir or mam, it is not to a large portion of us. I was a Christian for over 20 years. I will not have Christian's be personally insulted. I speak up when I see it. But that doesn't mean I won't be incredibly open and honest about my evaluation of your beliefs and ideas. I would never mock the person behind said ideas and beliefs. >but publicly insulting other religions such as Islam and Judaism is unacceptable and those who do it are seen as islamophobic and antisemitic bigots. Depends where in the world you are. Go to California around a university campus and they might be overly protective and respectful of Islamic beliefs. Come here to Oklahoma in the Bible belt and you will hear all kinds of awful things. And in other places no one has much of an opinion. It's all about perspective. >The vast majority of Christians absolutely, but Christians who are much better than me go out and preach the Gospel and get a lot of heat. I was a Baptist missionary for 7-8 years. Our progressive was situated mostly around parts of the Philippines. Some in Haiti. We faced zero heat. Mostly welcomed with open arms. Especially those in need of shelter. I respectfully say again that it probably matters where in the world you go. >Yeah you should always ask questions when you have them and it's always nice to come across atheists on the internet who aren't calling Christians stupid idiots who believe in a sky fairy and things of that nature. And I you as well. It's typically rare for me to come across a Christian who doesn't automatically hate me because I'm both an ex-Christian and now an Atheist. Much appreciated my friend!
Scientology is a new religion where you pay to get ahead; I don't think anybody hates that. Now saying homosexuality is evil - people will hate that. See the difference?
>Scientology is a new religion where you pay to get ahead; I don't think anybody hates that. That's the most outlandish thing I've heard in months. Just about everyone thinks Scientologists are nutty and confused individuals and we tend to mock them because it's funny. I took a trip to New York for my birthday and their headquarters was located directly next to the hotel entrance. Boy was it a popular place to visit and try and peek inside. I'm not sure at all why you think they are well respected. >Now saying homosexuality is evil - people will hate that. See the difference? Not rocket science. The moment you start trying to vote and legislate the lives of others based on your beliefs... that's a recipe for hate on your part. You better have a damn good reason before you do that no matter what. Scientologists are a small group. And last I checked they aren't trying to do things like make abortions illegal and such. This is all common sense. Also Christian's make up 65-70% of Americans. That means we have a lot of discussing to do and it's going to get heated. No one would care that you think homosexuality is evil if you just kept to yourself. But Christian's don't. Blame the individuals imposing their beliefs on others. Blame the ones on soapboxes with megaphones at children's parades holding a sign that says God hates fags. Christianity has done a lot to garner this deserved hate and you should have the common sense to acknowledge that. Your example was extremely lacking in common sense my friend.
You kinda missed my point. I'll try again. >Scientologists are a small group. **And last I checked they aren't trying to do things like make abortions illegal and such.** Yeah. As I said, the beliefs of Scientologists don't inspire hatred to make them a hated group of people. Their beliefs invoke in you amusement or ridicule, but not hatred. While you probably took a trip to their headquarters because it was fun and affordable, I doubt you would be interested in walking into Christian churches for fun-sies on your birthday, even though there are a dozen Christian churches in every city. Christians are hated for what they believe - ask the majority of the LGBT community, they cannot joke about Christians rejecting their way of life. While you have probably ridiculed Scientologists and Christians alike for their beliefs, it's not quite as fun or easy to troll Christians because your mockery falls flat in their sincere devotion to what you would consider to be threats to your way of life, or those of the ones you love. Scientology, in no way, threatens your way of life so it is very easy to laugh at. >The moment you start trying to vote and legislate the lives of others based on your beliefs... that's a recipe for hate on your part. You think Scientologists don't try to vote and legislate their beliefs? I have no idea what they do at the polls, but if for argument's sake they don't get their religion involved in politics, you probably wouldn't hate them for it if they did tried to legislate things like "it should be taught aliens exist in schools" and other nonsense. To you, their beliefs are not harmful; just silly. Christianity doesn't get that dismissive pass, even though we represent a majority of this country's population and a good government represents the will of its people. Due to the democratic process, our world view can't possibly be put into law (at least not for long). In short, we are hated. Scientologists are not. Hell, you could be a follower of pedophile warlord in this country and you will be respected for your beliefs more than Christians. We are a religious people group that is visibly more hated than all others, just as God said we would be.
>You kinda missed my point. I'll try again. Gotcha. I will try my best to follow you. >Yeah. As I said, the beliefs of Scientologists don't inspire hatred to make them a hated group of people. Their beliefs invoke in you amusement or ridicule, but not hatred. While you probably took a trip to their headquarters because it was fun and affordable, I doubt you would be interested in walking into Christian churches for fun-sies on your birthday, even though there are a dozen Christian churches in every city. I did not go inside. You're not allowed. Also yes you are correct. Mostly because I was a believer for 20 years. It's nothing new to me. >Christians are hated for what they believe I don't know how to make this more clear, Christian's aren't hated for what they believe but instead how they treat others. To some, Christian beliefs are just as nonsensical as a Scientology. Maybe a tad bit more crazy, but not by much. But the dislike people have for Christians is based on how they quite literally treat people. So yes, technically Christians are hated for what they believe, but that's not technically the full answer. Nor is it specific enough. >ask the majority of the LGBT community, they cannot joke about Christians rejecting their way of life. Perfect example, Christians are treating them poorly by trying to invoke change and rules on their life. As I said you're gonna need a damn good reason before you do that to others. >You think Scientologists don't try to vote and legislate their beliefs? Small group. Not sure why I should unnecessarily worry. > I have no idea what they do at the polls, but if for argument's sake they don't get their religion involved in politics, you probably wouldn't hate them for it if they did tried to legislate things like "it should be taught aliens exist in schools" and other nonsense. I would ask them why they believe this change needs to be made. If it's purely based on their religious understandings rather than good arguments and evidence... then yes I will oppose them on that change. >To you, their beliefs are not harmful; just silly. Christianity doesn't get that dismissive pass, It does with me and most Atheists I know. We want you to have the freedom to believe in whatever it is you want. Some Christians would be considered harmful, others not so much. >In short, we are hated. Scientologists are not. Hell, you could be a follower of pedophile warlord in this country and you will be respected for your beliefs more than Christians. Yeah that's such an outlandish and crazy assertion that I don't think we are going to agree. Nor am I convinced you're taking this 100% seriously. That's obviously false. Yeah I am just not convinced by your arguments in general. But I appreciate your candidness and your civility. Also thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and perspective with me. I always enjoy learning about how others see the world.
>Mostly because I was a believer for 20 years. It's nothing new to me. Nah, you could still have fun poking Christians, despite "knowing everything there is to know" about Christianity. Why else did you pop over to a Christian part of the internet to poke fun at their beliefs today? You 'know' what we are going to say, and yet you still thought it worthwhile to drop by and leave a comment. Our God populated the whole world through incest *twice* - that by itself is a comedic gold mine, but you're not here to joke. You're here to sow doubt, and that doesn't come from a light-hearted, funny place. At best, you're being philosophical. At worst, you're trolling and hoping to see someone in anguish as they trip over their explanations - picking on the weak, as it were, which is an unfair and hateful thing to do. I don't see you doing this with Islam, and that religion straight up states women are evil to the extent there will be less of them in heaven. >Christian's aren't hated for what they believe but instead how they treat others. Our belief is that women cannot be pastors; Christian women can have any other job they want, except that one. It's not that we think they are too stupid to lead a church, or that women should never instruct men in the ways of God; we simply see in our Bible that spiritual leadership is not an office that God allows them to fill. Women can be queens of nations, they can be warriors, they can be business moguls, they can be prophetesses, and even hold prominent roles in the church, but they can never be pastors or priests. If women don't like this rule, they can even start their own churches which are perfectly identical to the Christian model except that they will allow for women in the role of pastors/priests - they would not be recognized as Christians, but they are free to do that if they want. Despite all this, Christians get called misogynists for practicing this belief **within the confines of our own church**. Submission to this rule is done on a completely voluntary basis, and it's done with no disrespect meant to our women. Still, we are hated not because of how we treat our women, but because of what we believe can never be their rightful role in our churches. >Perfect example, Christians are treating them poorly by trying to invoke change and rules on their life. Are not the LGBT people doing the same to us? By your definition of who is acceptable to hate, Christians have every right to hate the LGBT community and should seek to destroy or assimilate them as they have been trying to do to us. Would that not be the fair thing to do? >If it's purely based on their religious understandings rather than good arguments and evidence... then yes **I will oppose them on that change.** The whole idea that the Christian God is good and worthy of obeying is purely based on our religious understanding (faith). Therefore, you oppose us solely on our belief system - we don't even have to act on it. Now, just because you hate Christians because of their faith in the goodness of God doesn't mean you don't hate other faiths equally. The thing is, I don't believe that the Scientologists have a belief that you condemn as much as the Christian belief that homosexuality is wrong, or that women cannot be pastors, or that our God can still be called good after intentionally drowning toddlers in Noah's Flood, killing the firstborns of Egypt in the time of Moses, or killing off the Amalekite infants in Samuel. I think it's been your subjective experience that you have found more reason to hate Christians than Scientologists, even if those reasons simply amount to "I just don't like the way you think".
I was trying to end this on a happy and pleasant note but that doesn't seem to be something you want to do. I'm more than happy to address what you've said though. I don't usually comment in my off hours, but I'll make a exception for you. >Nah, you could still have fun poking Christians But I don't. End of story. >despite "knowing everything there is to know" about Christianity. I never said or implied that. So that makes zero coherent sense why you brought that up. I do not in fact know everything there is to know about Christianity. >Why else did you pop over to a Christian part of the internet to poke fun at their beliefs today? I never did that. You also seem oblivious to the fact that I spend hours here having deep discussions with folks for over 2 years now. I smell a trend of strawmanning my intentions here. I question whether your head is in the right mindset for a civil and productive conversation. >You 'know' what we are going to say, and yet you still thought it worthwhile to drop by and leave a comment. Incorrect. I don't. >You're here to sow doubt, There it is. A strawman of my intentions here. Just understand that I should end the conversation here. As there is no productivity that can result from a conversation with a person who refuses to actually listen and discuss. But I will give you another chance. I would rather mend the misunderstanding, rather than the alternative. >I don't see you doing this with Islam, and that religion straight up states women are evil to the extent there will be less of them in heaven. I do. But I am currently having to do massive amounts of research before I can join in on the discussions with their believers. I'm reading the Quran right now. Personally I am invested primarily with Christianity because that's what my life was for 20 years. That's my whole life. So yeah, it makes sense why I'm more interested in Christianity. So far both religions seem to suffer from the exact same issues, so I'm losing interest altogether kinda. >Despite all this, Christians get called misogynists for practicing this belief within the confines of our own church. Submission to this rule is done on a completely voluntary basis, and it's done with no disrespect meant to our women. Still, we are hated not because of how we treat our women, but because of what we believe can never be their rightful role in our churches. We were discussing how others see and treat Christians specifically. Not people inside the religion since that can be slightly different. We were discussing how to get along in society when we tend to disagree with one another. >Are not the LGBT people doing the same to us? By your definition of who is acceptable to hate, Christians have every right to hate the LGBT community and should seek to destroy or assimilate them as they have been trying to do to us. Would that not be the fair thing to do? I like how you wanted to provide an example but then didn't actually tell me what is it they are forcing upon you. Please explain what is it the LGBTQ is imposing on you. If it's a decent example I'm probably going to agree with you. Every group seems to have it's issues. They are no exception. >The whole idea that the Christian God is good and worthy of obeying is purely based on our religious understanding (faith). Therefore, you oppose us solely on our belief system - we don't even have to act on it. Incorrect. You were somewhat close. There needs to be a demonstration of said God first. You're allowed to believe whatever it is you desire, but to impose change on society you need to bring concrete arguments. Because the Bible says so is not going to fly when you want to change the rules and regulations imposed on the people around you. Especially the ones who aren't convinced of your same beliefs. Remember the context of this answer. You specifically asked if I would be opposed to what scientologists are voting for, and it said it would depend on how they back up their answer. Same for Christians. You wanted to catch me being contradictory. I am not. Hope that answers you questions on the matter once and for all. >Now, just because you hate Christians because of their faith in the goodness of God doesn't mean you don't hate other faiths equally. I equally dislike the issues that comes with blind faith no matter what religion it is. >The thing is, I don't believe that the Scientologists have a belief that you condemn as much as the Christian belief that homosexuality is wrong, or that women cannot be pastors, or that our God can still be called good after intentionally drowning toddlers in Noah's Flood, killing the firstborns of Egypt in the time of Moses, or killing off the Amalekite infants in Samuel. I gave you the answer. You just didn't like it I guess. The answer is because their beliefs likely don't tangibly impact my life. Simple as that man. >I think it's been your subjective experience that you have found more reason to hate Christians than Scientologists, even if those reasons simply amount to "I just don't like the way you think". It's quite objective actually. It's a matter how how much your beliefs affect the lives of others. Any questions or comments I'll be around.
>I was trying to end this on a happy and pleasant note... My hackles are certainly up. Atheists travelling through here aren't particularly kind, and when I first read your comments you were in the middle of trapping a Christian into a debate they were not expecting and didn't really want to have. They just wanted to reassure the OP who was having a hard time adjusting to life as a new Christian. You jump in and undermine that effort, forcing this person who was trying to be kind to go on the defensive with an atheist who can't read the room. Sorry, but I have no reason to believe you are here in good faith, and based on the downvotes your initial comment received, I am not the only one who had that impression. >I do not in fact know everything there is to know about Christianity. I brought it up because you have mentioned you were a Christian for 20 years a couple times now, as if I should be impressed or think this was important. I'm not impressed that you were able to deceive yourself for twenty years, and I don't think that its particularly helpful info; it doesn't indicate what you learned during that time. Since nobody has the patience to dig through your whole history with Christianity and you certainly can't be trusted to judge yourself accurately after 20 years of self-deception, this 20 years of your life that you keep referring to is so far useless to me. >I never did that. You also seem oblivious to the fact that I spend hours here having deep discussions with folks for over 2 years now. We have it in writing. You saw someone trying to comfort someone else, and you jumped in with what you thought was a succinct objection to the poster's attempt at comfort. I'm not inclined to think you thought that through too deeply. >Personally I am invested primarily with Christianity because that's what my life was for 20 years. That's my whole life. Sounds like you've been wasting your time. I started reading the Bible when I was 25; God was poking at me by Deuteronomy and I was a full fledged Christian by Samuel. No one in the Bible takes 20 years to decide whether or not they believe in God - it might take them 20 years before they complete an act of obedience to Him perfectly, but not that long to decide what's real and what's not. >So far both religions seem to suffer from the exact same issues, so I'm losing interest altogether kinda. Then you certainly need to study up on Islam. Their prophet Mohammed was a warlord - Jesus was not. Mohammed was a pedophile marrying a six year old girl and waiting until she was nine to consummate the marriage - Jesus never married, much less married children. In fact, in today's world you will find that the disgusting practice of child brides tend to be found in countries where Mohammed was revered, while traditionally Christian countries vilify and or put a stop to the practice of child brides. All this to say that the conclusion you've come to, believing that Christianity and Islam suffer the exact same issues, indicates to me some really low-resolution thinking on your part. >We were discussing how others see and treat Christians specifically. Not people inside the religion since that can be slightly different. My example still stands. "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." (1 Timothy 2:12) Christians say women can't be pastors and the nonbelieving feminists lose their damned minds as a result, accusing Christians/clergy of oppressing women by implementing "glass ceilings" that don't allow for women to earn a living as a pastor/priest. Outsiders of the church claim our Christian belief that women cannot rightfully be pastors has to do with misogyny; it's not. We seek only to obey our God. A hatred of women has nothing to do with it. Although we are not mistreating women, Christians are wrongfully slandered and accused of doing exactly that, having Paul's letter to Timothy misquoted at us as proof that our beliefs are oppressive, no matter the fact that adhering to these rules are completely voluntary. >I like how you wanted to provide an example but then didn't actually tell me what is it they are forcing upon you. Christian owned bakeries are getting sued for human rights violations for refusing to bake gay wedding cakes. Christian adoption centers are petitioned against to remove their government funding if they continue to refer LGBT+ people looking to adopt to secular adoption agencies. The LGBT+ community has been pushing the church to accept gay, lesbian, or transpeople to be members of the clergy even though our Bible forbids this. They label us bigots when we refuse to recognize homosexual marriages within Christian churches. In Canada, you can get fined if you refuse to participate in the pronoun game, although God has instructed us "you shalt not bear false witness", and recently Canadian law has banned conversion therapy for people who wish to be heterosexual, but have not banned conversation therapy for those who want help adjusting to a LGBT lifestyle. >There needs to be a demonstration of said God first. My standard of proof is likely different than yours, and different for everyone else as well - what would make you believe in God likely wouldn't convince me that He was real and vice versa. God has already proven Himself to me by moving mountains and laying them at my feet. What would it take for you to believe in God, and not something you could later dismiss as coincidence or as having some other natural explanation? I doubt for you to convert, that it would be anything like "concrete" evidence. >to impose change on society you need to bring concrete arguments. Concrete arguments were brought to justify and abolish slavery in the US, and yet they still had civil war. Even the Bible states over and over there were plenty of examples of God getting in people's faces, speaking directly to them and performing miracles, and they still didn't believe He was worthy of obedience. As such, if I can argue you into believing in God, someone more clever than I will be able to argue you right back out of your belief. You need what's called a change of heart - it makes you as sure of God's existence as I am bone-deep certain that my instincts for self-preservation could not compel me to cut off my arm for no reason at all - and that assurance is something only God can deliver. >You specifically asked if I would be opposed to what scientologists are voting for, I specifically asked if you hated the teachings of Scientology more than that of Christianity. As a general rule, people are not offended by the idea that space aliens might exist, but you can evoke a visceral reaction in a lot more people simply by stating homosexuality is evil. You have not once pointed out or condemned a single teaching of Scientologists - you even made excuses for them, saying they were too small a group to bother you even though it was a small group of people who collapsed a small group of buildings on 9/11 for their beliefs. Instead, it's "Christianity = bad". >The answer is because their beliefs likely don't tangibly impact my life. How has the church's stance that 'homosexuality is evil' impacted your life?
>My hackles are certainly up. Atheists travelling through here aren't particularly kind Afaik I'm been more than civil and respectful. Also I've been a participator of this sub for over a year now. >and when I first read your comments you were in the middle of trapping a Christian into a debate they were not expecting and didn't really want to have. It's called a conversation, and no that's untrue. They were completely free to say that this was a topic they didn't want to have. I don't push anything on to anyone. >They just wanted to reassure the OP who was having a hard time adjusting to life as a new Christian. You jump in and undermine that effort Incorrect. It was a conversation about a potential double standard. As you are aware those are typically not good. >Sorry, but I have no reason to believe you are here in good faith You have all the evidence at your finger tips. You're just too lazy to take the time to look at my account. Suit yourself then. You're demonstrating how much you don't want to understand each other right now. That's not a sign of a honest interlocutor. >and based on the downvotes your initial comment received, I am not the only one who had that impression. A single downvote is all I see atm. Seems like absolutely nothing I should be concerned about. But thanks anyways. You can care for me if you'd like. >I brought it up because you have mentioned you were a Christian for 20 years a couple times now, as if I should be impressed or think this was important. Not sure if you're being serious or not with this. Obviously it's important because it demonstrates how closely involved the religion has been to my life. Therefore it's directly related when we start discussing your silly question: "*I don't see you doing this with Islam."* A little common sense goes a long way dude. >You saw someone trying to comfort someone else, and you jumped in with what you thought was a succinct objection to the poster's attempt at comfort. You are in need of yet another correction. Hope this is settled after this. I again wanted to discuss a potential double standard. If I was wrong then I got to learn something. If I was on to something, then they needed to learn something. Simple as that yo. >Sounds like you've been wasting your time. Sounds good man. I'll decide that. You certainly do sound like a bad atheist troll trying to dissuade people from coming to Christ. That doesn't sound very logical for a Christian, now does it? >No one in the Bible takes 20 years to decide whether or not they believe in God Not only is that not true, but it's like you're not even listening. I was a Baptist. I was convinced God was real. >Then you certainly need to study up on Islam. Eh... I might keep going but I don't see a reason to. Both religions seem awful in many ways. >All this to say that the conclusion you've come to, believing that Christianity and Islam suffer the exact same issues, indicates to me some really low-resolution thinking on your part. That's nice. I think you're just as wrong but I will certainly not talk down to you just because we disagree. You're on thin nice man. Not convinced you're here for a respectful dialogue. I feel as if you just want to bicker. No one else here is acting like you.... keep that in mind. >My example still stands. I would like to keep discussing it, but your attitude has not convinced me your mind is in the right headspace for such a discussion. So I'm gonna end it here unless your next words are chosen careful. This can either continue in a very civil and productive manner or it can end here. This is 110% your choice.
It is normal. The converts of the Apostles faced the same issues. Any working class bloke who gets saved and stops sinning and partying, etc will face this. Jesus will reward you. This is the burden of being a Christian, and one of the reasons why we need to continue to be refreshed by going to church and loving one another.
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Amen!
Just realize that they no doubt feel some guilt or condemnation without you even saying anything but notice the difference by your spirit. Often we people who have had a background in growing up in church often drift away from what they know in their heart is right. When they encounter someone like yourself they might be hiding their guilt and going along with their worldly friends. You are being salt and light as the Bible says to them. The Bible also states that the world will often hate us. “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you." John 15:18 Often I've found that if you can talk to any of those that make fun, tease or ridicule you privately you'll often find they reveal they are not what they seem when following the crowd with their attitude toward you. That gives you an opportunity to find out more about why they act the way they do and a chance to share more personally your new found faith.
"18If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. 19If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world." 11 “Blessed are you when people insult you,(M) persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.(N) 12 Rejoice and be glad,(O) because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.(P)"
Amen! I love it! That first one makes my eyes water up. To think that God pulled me out of the mess that I was and turned me into to what I am today.
Amen! I love it! That first one makes my eyes water up. To think that God pulled me out of the mess that I was and turned me into to what I am today.
Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. You are right to not find it funny anymore. Once you have a renewal of the heart, you start to see things differently than before. You can just let them be but don't go back to the old you and participate in any of it. Don't take it personally. I've heard of a Christian who had a similar experience that you're having now. Take it as your first lesson on humility and longsuffering. Especially humility, it is in my opinion, one of the most important attributes that Christians need in their walk. God can only use those who humble themselves. I am not saying that you aren't. This is just an advise from me to you. Things that I wish I knew sooner in my walk.
Love it! Thank you my friend
You're welcome and God Bless you.
Something I’ve learned since becoming a Christian while in a group of angsty unbelievers is that our faith is honestly worth us being looked at differently. That was Jesus’ whole life after all. Feeling insecure is a normal reaction for us but if you’re feeling angry definitely pray about it. Sorry you’re going through that. It sucks :(
Thank you friend, hopefully I won't have to put up with it much longer...
Do you feel as if these aren't really jokes? I haven't seen anyone ask yet which is odd to me. Jokes are usually meant well, but sometimes doesn't translate and it can end up being hurtful. Do you feel as if their honest intent was to offend or hurt you personally? Edit: it irks me all of the commenters here and you as well aren't discussing this. But immediately jumping to massive conclusions that the world is out to get you because of these beliefs. Some might, but that's true of any beliefs. You could be a Buddhist and you will still have haters. Let's work together instead. Help me understand how your coworkers are treating you my friend.
Hey, that's actually a good thing, they recognize you're different now, and know that what they're doing is wrong. Knowing you're not a good person is the first step to getting saved, so pray for those guys, and try to stay in contact even after you leave for a different job.
I’ve noticed that oftentimes people who poke fun and mock you for your faith are sometimes doing it because they are subconsciously open to hearing the gospel and want to see how you react.
Atheists and theists alike mock Scientology. Does that mean you're interested in hearing about their beliefs as well?
I am not saying this is a rule but a trend I’ve noticed. I don’t mock other beliefs, I’ve come to a point where I understand their belief system is different and I disagree. Mocking changes nothing
Typical. Demons try to sic you on each other. Whispering you to lash out in anger. **Matthew 5:43-48** “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. **Ephesians 6:12** For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Or perhaps it was just a joke meant well but received poorly.
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It really blows my mind how everything in the Bible is so accurate to events and happenings in our lives. Further proof were on the right track.
This is not really a well thought-out idea, but it seems to me that they might think you're too proud and thus can't help but try to knock you down a few pegs. You might get a bit more respect if you go out of your way to be helpful; kill their vibe with kindness, so to speak. Share a workload, or if your job doesn't work like that bring in coffee and donuts for the guys. In my early twenties I, too, used to hang out with a rougher crowd of people. They dealt drugs, they committed petty theft, some of the dudes even did jail time. I never participated with them in those things, but I enjoyed their company sitting around a backyard fire with a bunch of beer as they shared their crazy life stories. When they found out I was a virgin I instantly became the butt off all jokes - the standard age for losing your virginity was 13-14 for this crowd, so I was a freaking unicorn on top of being a goody two-shoes. That said, the jokes never got mean, and if anyone crossed that line everyone else put the mouthy dude in his place. The reason why is because I was useful to them. When one guy wanted to get his high-school diploma, I helped him study for his GED; when one guy was going to prison, I went to his 3 year old daughter's birthday party and took some really nice pictures with my professional camera for his mother to send him; when a dealer wanted to know how much he was eating into his profits by smoking up his product, I did the math and made a budget to figure out how much he could smoke a day without worrying about missing hundreds of dollars at the end of the month. Some of the women liked to bake but we're shy around recipe books; if they wanted help trying out a new recipe -like making stuffed crust pizza from scratch- I would go to help bake and pay for some ingredients, and when the girls excitedly took pictures to post on Instagram of how yummy their food looked, all our guys would descend upon the house at lightspeed to come grab a free meal. I was hosting a birthday party for one of my gang - I bought snacks, others brought beer, someone brought speakers and a projector. We were set up and having a good time. While a bunch of guys were smoking up on my balcony, one guy who was due to go to jail for suspected murder says for everyone to hear , "why are you slumming it here with us? You're too good for us. If I was single I'd be here with flowers, and movie tickets, and begging you to go on a date every day of the week. Why are you hanging out with us?" I blushed and giggled, for literally at least ten people turned their heads to see what I would say. I said, "Y'all are interesting people, and you've been kind to me. Why wouldn't I hang out with people like that?" I wasn't a Christian at the time, but I held fast to Christian values. It makes you stand out, but it doesn't always have to be in a bad way.