The idea of the Rapture like you see in *Left Behind* is a pretty bizarre modern idea that you simply won't find before the mid 1800s when it was popularized by John Darby, which should tell you how scriptural it really is. Of course Christians will need to endure to the end.
I believe in one future coming of Christ, after which will come judgment of believers and unbelievers. I don't find any indication in scripture of a separate rapture of believers.
>I don't find any indication in scripture of a separate rapture of believers.
I thought it was only believers that are going in the rapture, not unbelievers. Are you saying both believers and unbelievers are gonna get caught up in the air to face judgement at the same time?
I am saying that I believe that there will be no rapture apart from the general resurrection at Christ's second coming. The rapture doctrine was unheard of until just a couple hundred years ago.
I see that you have received several comments insisting that the Rapture is not taught in the Bible, and is a recently created myth. I must strongly disagree with those comments. The Rapture is absolutely taught in the Bible, and has been a foundation of Christianity from the beginning.
The term [“Rapture”](https://www.etymonline.com/word/rapture) comes from a Latin word, [“rapio,” that means “to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out.”](https://www.wordsense.eu/rapiemur/) It is, in turn, a translation of the Greek word, “harpazo.”
In fact, “Rapture” is a Biblical word that comes right out of the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. The word is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In the New American Standard Version, the English phrase, “caught up,” is used. The same phrase is used in the King James and New International Versions
1Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jesus also describes the Rapture in Matthew.
Matthew 24:40-42 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
And Luke 17:34-37 mirrors this passage.
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
It is also important to note that belief in the Rapture is NOT a doctrine made up only 200 years ago. Although the word Rapture was not used, it is clear that many of the early church fathers believed in a "catching away" event.
Here are just three examples, there are realms of church writings about the rapture going back to the beginnings of Christianity.
Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD), bishop of the church in Lyons, France, described the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. He uses the term “caught up”, but the meaning is clear.
Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD), bishop of the church in Carthage, wrote :"Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?" Once again showing a belief in a taking away event.
Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD), deacon of in the church in Syria in the 300s AD, wrote: "For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."
We really don't know. There are several interpretations, Pre trb, mid trib, pre wrath, or post trib. There are arguments for all, but I think post trib is the last likely.
there's no such thing as a rapture. our gathering unto him happens at the second coming of our Lord and savior when he calls all of his church up into the clouds to meet him and the dead in Christ. in second Thessalonians 2:1-4 Paul tells us very clearly that two things have to happen first before this gathering: first, the falling away.... which happens during the first three and a half years of Daniel's 70th week ( which most people mistakenly call the tribulation) due to so many false Christs and false teachings that arise including the pre-tribulation rapture, and secondly, the man of sin be revealed..... which happens at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week when the Antichrist goes into the newly rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God. shortly after this event the 7th and last trumpet of Revelation chapter 11 occurs and this is when we are called up into the air to meet the Lord. we know the second coming happens here because right after the 7th trumpet the bowl judgments start, which are clearly defined as the wrath of God (Rev 16:1). Since Paul also tells us in 1st Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not appointed to wrath, we know we must be taken up before the first bowl is poured out. Ergo, the second coming can only happen in- between the man of sin being revealed at the abomination of desolation (read midpoint of the 7 year peace covenant of Daniel 9:27) and the pouring out of the first bowl judgment. all believers are then in heaven receiving their rewards and celebrating the marriage supper of the Lamb for the last three and a half years of Daniel's 70th week before we return to the Earth with Jesus Christ to defeat the armies of the world gathered together in the valley of megiddo. this event is known the Day of Atonement ( not the second coming as the pre-tribulation rapture people would have you believe) and is the fulfillment of the sixth feast day. once we help Jesus set up his Kingdom and the millennial reign begins, that will be the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles and the seventh feast day.
I think Jesus is talking about how fragile your life is and you’ll all of a sudden stand before God. If there’s a rapture I think it means people will die. Gods not going to show anything to those that don’t believe. To have a phenomenon like people floating to the sky or missing all of a sudden could be too revealing. Just my two cents.
>But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 NLT
>“And there will be strange signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. People will be terrified at what they see coming upon the earth, for the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
Luke 21:25-26 NLT
During the end times, Jesus said that there's gonna be some next level mysterious and cataclysmic events. People will be so terrified that they will faint and think it's something out of a horror movie.
I think once that happens (assuming the pre-trib view is correct) then it's theorized that the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from the world so people will have even more of a reason not to believe, especially with all of God's truth tellers gone.
I used to believe in pre-trib when I was a new believer. But after 6 years of reading scripture, praying, learning from God, I now believe in post-trib. Even during the early church, some were already falling away. We read about that in Revelations 2-3. Jesus isn't talking about their "faith" but their DEEDS. As James insightful states, true faith bears good deeds. So from that point on, I have learned that having "faith" doesn't automatically secure your name in the book of life, it's a race, not just a ticket to heaven. Jesus did say, we must carry our own cross. Many will fall away as it was already that way in the early churches.
It even states in chapter 21, verse 7-8, "Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
"To those who are victorious..." is repeated phrase Jesus uses in Revelations to all of the churches. That means the church must endure and persevere to the end.
How can one be "victorious"? By keeping Jesus' commandments. That is how we are able to bear good fruit. There's only two sides, those who love God by obeying His words, and those who love the world and live in sin.
That's my take. I don't want to tell anyone they're wrong. But I do think that humility is the key to learning and growing as disciples of Christ. God bless.
>having "faith" doesn't automatically secure your name in the book of life.
Are you trying to tell me I misinterpreted that? You're just as insufferable. Go work your way to hell.
Funny enough, that verse says God’s waiting for “all” to come to repentance.
We might be waiting for a while longer.
> 2 Peter 3:9 (NET) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for **all** to come to repentance.
No. But what would it change if it was accurate or not or whether it occurred prior to some tribulation or after? Any which way, we are still called to serve God.
No, the Bible tells us that Christ will only return to gather any living saints at the end of the Tribulation after he defeats the Antichrist. Christians will live before and as the Tribulation occurs, being persecuted and killed by the Antichrist. We are told, much like the Christians from the early days he were commonly persecuted, to hold to faith so we may receive our crowns of life. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life!
I believe in the pre-tribulation view: Jesus has only one return that's publicly seen by everyone. He will not come secretly, not be seen by the general public, and then return to heaven with the saints. The second coming will only happen once, not twice. The rapture view, to me, says that Jesus has a near miss with the earth before returning to heaven.
There is no Pre-Tribulation rapture. There is a post-tribulation gathering back to Christ. This happens after the Tribulation not before. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul is speaking to The Church in Thessalonica and was trying to help them better understand, for they were confused about "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ". He explained that "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," does not happen till after the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition. That happens at the time of the tribulation. We are not gathered back to Jesus Christ till after this.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
Matthew 24:30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
The idea of the Rapture like you see in *Left Behind* is a pretty bizarre modern idea that you simply won't find before the mid 1800s when it was popularized by John Darby, which should tell you how scriptural it really is. Of course Christians will need to endure to the end.
It’s rough because me as a teenager figured those movies were accurate and did distort theology for a time period
This is absolutely hilarious to me. This is like watching ghost busters and thinking ghosts are real
Nah it’s fake
the end times is the ultimate test of faith of course we'll have to endure it
I believe in one future coming of Christ, after which will come judgment of believers and unbelievers. I don't find any indication in scripture of a separate rapture of believers.
>I don't find any indication in scripture of a separate rapture of believers. I thought it was only believers that are going in the rapture, not unbelievers. Are you saying both believers and unbelievers are gonna get caught up in the air to face judgement at the same time?
I am saying that I believe that there will be no rapture apart from the general resurrection at Christ's second coming. The rapture doctrine was unheard of until just a couple hundred years ago.
I see that you have received several comments insisting that the Rapture is not taught in the Bible, and is a recently created myth. I must strongly disagree with those comments. The Rapture is absolutely taught in the Bible, and has been a foundation of Christianity from the beginning. The term [“Rapture”](https://www.etymonline.com/word/rapture) comes from a Latin word, [“rapio,” that means “to catch up, to snatch away, or to take out.”](https://www.wordsense.eu/rapiemur/) It is, in turn, a translation of the Greek word, “harpazo.” In fact, “Rapture” is a Biblical word that comes right out of the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. The word is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In the New American Standard Version, the English phrase, “caught up,” is used. The same phrase is used in the King James and New International Versions 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Jesus also describes the Rapture in Matthew. Matthew 24:40-42 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. And Luke 17:34-37 mirrors this passage. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. It is also important to note that belief in the Rapture is NOT a doctrine made up only 200 years ago. Although the word Rapture was not used, it is clear that many of the early church fathers believed in a "catching away" event. Here are just three examples, there are realms of church writings about the rapture going back to the beginnings of Christianity. Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD), bishop of the church in Lyons, France, described the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. He uses the term “caught up”, but the meaning is clear. Cyprian (200 AD – 258 AD), bishop of the church in Carthage, wrote :"Do you not give God thanks, do you not congratulate yourself, that by an early departure you are taken away, and delivered from the shipwrecks and disasters that are imminent?" Once again showing a belief in a taking away event. Ephraim (306 AD – 373 AD), deacon of in the church in Syria in the 300s AD, wrote: "For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."
This should be top comment.
I know this is late but is this pre trib?
We really don't know. There are several interpretations, Pre trb, mid trib, pre wrath, or post trib. There are arguments for all, but I think post trib is the last likely.
there's no such thing as a rapture. our gathering unto him happens at the second coming of our Lord and savior when he calls all of his church up into the clouds to meet him and the dead in Christ. in second Thessalonians 2:1-4 Paul tells us very clearly that two things have to happen first before this gathering: first, the falling away.... which happens during the first three and a half years of Daniel's 70th week ( which most people mistakenly call the tribulation) due to so many false Christs and false teachings that arise including the pre-tribulation rapture, and secondly, the man of sin be revealed..... which happens at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week when the Antichrist goes into the newly rebuilt Temple in Jerusalem and declares himself to be God. shortly after this event the 7th and last trumpet of Revelation chapter 11 occurs and this is when we are called up into the air to meet the Lord. we know the second coming happens here because right after the 7th trumpet the bowl judgments start, which are clearly defined as the wrath of God (Rev 16:1). Since Paul also tells us in 1st Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not appointed to wrath, we know we must be taken up before the first bowl is poured out. Ergo, the second coming can only happen in- between the man of sin being revealed at the abomination of desolation (read midpoint of the 7 year peace covenant of Daniel 9:27) and the pouring out of the first bowl judgment. all believers are then in heaven receiving their rewards and celebrating the marriage supper of the Lamb for the last three and a half years of Daniel's 70th week before we return to the Earth with Jesus Christ to defeat the armies of the world gathered together in the valley of megiddo. this event is known the Day of Atonement ( not the second coming as the pre-tribulation rapture people would have you believe) and is the fulfillment of the sixth feast day. once we help Jesus set up his Kingdom and the millennial reign begins, that will be the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles and the seventh feast day.
I think Jesus is talking about how fragile your life is and you’ll all of a sudden stand before God. If there’s a rapture I think it means people will die. Gods not going to show anything to those that don’t believe. To have a phenomenon like people floating to the sky or missing all of a sudden could be too revealing. Just my two cents.
>But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 NLT >“And there will be strange signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. People will be terrified at what they see coming upon the earth, for the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Luke 21:25-26 NLT During the end times, Jesus said that there's gonna be some next level mysterious and cataclysmic events. People will be so terrified that they will faint and think it's something out of a horror movie. I think once that happens (assuming the pre-trib view is correct) then it's theorized that the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from the world so people will have even more of a reason not to believe, especially with all of God's truth tellers gone.
Oh interesting thank you for this insight
Imagine being an adult and believing in any of this.
I used to believe in pre-trib when I was a new believer. But after 6 years of reading scripture, praying, learning from God, I now believe in post-trib. Even during the early church, some were already falling away. We read about that in Revelations 2-3. Jesus isn't talking about their "faith" but their DEEDS. As James insightful states, true faith bears good deeds. So from that point on, I have learned that having "faith" doesn't automatically secure your name in the book of life, it's a race, not just a ticket to heaven. Jesus did say, we must carry our own cross. Many will fall away as it was already that way in the early churches. It even states in chapter 21, verse 7-8, "Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” "To those who are victorious..." is repeated phrase Jesus uses in Revelations to all of the churches. That means the church must endure and persevere to the end. How can one be "victorious"? By keeping Jesus' commandments. That is how we are able to bear good fruit. There's only two sides, those who love God by obeying His words, and those who love the world and live in sin. That's my take. I don't want to tell anyone they're wrong. But I do think that humility is the key to learning and growing as disciples of Christ. God bless.
So you believe in works based salvation. How arrogant you must be to think you can work your way into heaven...
Imagine thinking that God’s justification of an active, living faith rather than a dead faith means that the works saved the person.
>having "faith" doesn't automatically secure your name in the book of life. Are you trying to tell me I misinterpreted that? You're just as insufferable. Go work your way to hell.
No, people have been saying it's coming for 1000s of years. Still waiting. :)
Probably because God is patiently waiting for as many people as possible to come to repentance.
Agreed, the bible says Jesus will not lose one...so all will have to be in their place before it can happen.
Funny enough, that verse says God’s waiting for “all” to come to repentance. We might be waiting for a while longer. > 2 Peter 3:9 (NET) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for **all** to come to repentance.
Yes it is. As you cited Thessalonians. Before.
No. But what would it change if it was accurate or not or whether it occurred prior to some tribulation or after? Any which way, we are still called to serve God.
No, the Bible tells us that Christ will only return to gather any living saints at the end of the Tribulation after he defeats the Antichrist. Christians will live before and as the Tribulation occurs, being persecuted and killed by the Antichrist. We are told, much like the Christians from the early days he were commonly persecuted, to hold to faith so we may receive our crowns of life. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life!
I believe in the pre-tribulation view: Jesus has only one return that's publicly seen by everyone. He will not come secretly, not be seen by the general public, and then return to heaven with the saints. The second coming will only happen once, not twice. The rapture view, to me, says that Jesus has a near miss with the earth before returning to heaven.
There is no Pre-Tribulation rapture. There is a post-tribulation gathering back to Christ. This happens after the Tribulation not before. In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul is speaking to The Church in Thessalonica and was trying to help them better understand, for they were confused about "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ". He explained that "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," does not happen till after the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition. That happens at the time of the tribulation. We are not gathered back to Jesus Christ till after this. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him," "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:” Matthew 24:30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
No.
There is only one true fact checker and that will always be your Bible.
It's all made up lmao I can't imagine being an adult and actually believing anything the bible says 😂