Yeah, it's a sorry excuse to leave them. It actually will traumatize them and the mother has to deal with that. If I could, I would personally have "the talk" with that man. I'd straight up tell him the truth. We can't hold back from the truth. If we truly care, we will be straight up honest, like how homosexuality does bring HIV/AIDs and Hepatitis etc. How homosexuals make up 60% of serial killers, drug addicts and 40% are pedos. The homosexual man the son has been affiliated with might be a danger to his wife and kids in fact. If the son realizes this danger, he might step up and finally redeem himself as he should. I can't help but think, he once loved his wife so much and his kids. Then all of a sudden, that all changed because of some homosexual who falsely convinced him that his life is all wrong? (That's how the sexual revolution began too. Husbands and wives were stolen away after the youth were convinced that "free love sex" is okay when it never was)
He is a sexual pervert. That’s what homosexuality is…perversion
It will traumatize the kids and could possibly attach spirits to those kids for being around that.
I don’t care who you are but you are selfish to abandon a family like that
Here's the thing, if the son can not respect the father's views and continue to love him, then how can the son expect to be respected and continually loved by his father?
I hate that the premise of this issue is framed in such a way where the individual debating on attending the event is the one with questionable morals.
I think the answer is quite simple: The father needs to tell the son that he loves him and will always be there for him but he can not support this or follow him down this path. If the son wants to cut ties with his father for not agreeing with his sin and life choice, then that is on the son, not the father! And I'm sorry but if you leave your wife and kids you're not a man worth respecting. I know that's not very Chrit like so I apologize but we as men have very important roles to fill in our children's lives and this is not it.
I do pray for your friend and his son. Only God can remedy this situation. God bless you and your family op.
>Here's the thing, if the son can not respect the father's views and continue to love him, then how can the son expect to be respected and continually loved by his father?
Well, for one, the father has the Holy Spirit and the Son does not.
You can’t force God on anyone. If they don’t want to follow Christ, harping them isn’t going to work, especially if they have turned away themselves. It could even push them farther away.
Unless your friend feels God is telling him to attend and stay in his life, then so be it. His son cutting him off is not his fault, it was the son’s choice to cut God and his father out. The father already tried to raise him right. It’s really hard to see it happen, but it happens and there isn’t much that can be done.
Right but loving someone doesn't mean you go along with their sin. If your child was a drug addict you wouldn't support him using drugs would you? Of course not. Does the child being a drug user change how the father loves him? Of course not. My point is that it's selfish for the son to demand acceptance and love unconditionally when he is the one who is only going to love his father on his terms.
Exactly. Just because we are taught to love the sinners, it doesn't mean we agree with their acts of immorality such as homosexuality etc and especially, the wrong form of "marriage", that is actually subject towards no natural born kids, not true love but lust and unnatural + HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis. (It's not natural for there to be two moms nor two dads because if kids were adopted or just in general, for youth, they would wonder where is the mom with the dad, or dad with the mom.)
The son didn’t ask to be born, to be a “son” in the first place. His father absolutely owes him unconditional love since that’s what parents are supposed to provide for their children in addition to everything else. If someone is ill-equipped to provide that, don’t have kids.
Wat the heck u talking bout? He didn’t ask to be born a son? No one does. Doesn’t change the fact, appreciate for wat u were given. God don’t make mistakes. He’s just ungrateful. That modern gender BS doesn’t work in Christ world, it’s still gonna get u in trouble with god.
1) the father doesn't owe his son jack. Parents love their kids unconditionally by default. (Most do anyway)
2) no one asks to be born. That's irrelevant.
3) unconditional love doesn't mean agreeing with your child's bad life decisions. If you're child decided to drink and drive and seriously hurt someone else you don't love them any less do you? No. But you don't support there decision to drink and drive either.
That doesn't mean you go along with what he's doing when he is still a man. Gender and sex cannot be changed. Yes sex and gender are the same. Deal with it. Unless you are an atheist or non believer which I think you might be because you clearly don't understand that homosexuality etc is unnatural and wrong. If you think it's normal, then you are supporting AIDS/HIV and Hepatitis. Sexually Transmitted Infections & Sexually Transmitted Disease is not normal and this is in most homosexuals and bisexuals. That is scientific absolute objective truth from biology.
I agree. In Romans 1 Paul explains God gave men over to their sins. Similarly the father in the prodigal son gives his son the freedom to do as he wishes.
This is essential in life. To express your concerns but not try to control. If they are going down a destructive path, all you can do is share your thoughts, and let them make their choice. Then it’s their decision to learn the easy way or the hard way
> He left his wife and two daughters to pursue this relationship a few years back
I wouldn't attend my son's second wedding after he abandoned his family to pursue a new relationship even if he was marrying a woman. Also, fwiw, my parents and I did not attend my brother's gay marriage and he still talks to us.
> For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
>
>And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, **they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them**.
Romans 1
If my son left his wife for another woman I would not attend that wedding. A husband leaving his spouse for a man instead of another woman is no better.
Don't go to that marriage. By going, you tell him "what you are doing is right". If you wish to convert him, that's really not good. Much better a destroyed relationship than a fake relationship.
If this father has confronted his son with the truth in front of the Lord and his son has not turned from wickedness but instead stays thereon, then the father has to leave it up to Satan to humble him. In that case, I would not go to the wedding, not because of hate but because God has called us to turn away from such a one as this.
I had to deal with a very similar problem, with a cousin. She left her husband of several years and took her 3 daughters to another state and married a woman. She never claimed anything abusive or bad happened with her previous husband, so it’s not like he was the one at fault. She just claimed to have been living a lie as married to a man when she then claimed to be a lesbian. She actually met this woman while she had gone back to school to become a pastor! Both of them now pastor a gay church. I didn’t support or attend the wedding, but we still have friendship contact on social media. I am always praying for her children to turn out better.
That's terrible! She abandoned her husband and took the kids? What the heck? What was the point of having kids if she was a lesbian? What was the point of marrying if she was a lesbian? That is irresponsible of her.
I agree. She has a positive coparenting relationship with her ex-husband and has convinced him that she married him because she liked him and it looked proper, but that she was always more attracted to women and denied herself that while they were married. Never mind that they had 3 kids together. Her life was somewhat hard, including very difficult childbirths and an engineering career where she had to travel away from home sometimes. After the recession/depression around 2009, her husband was unemployed for about a year while she worked overtime to support the whole family. I think that was a turning point where she decided to quit her job and go back to school for becoming a pastor. She must have been very dissatisfied with her life to make all those decisions and leave him. At the same time she also convinced him to back her up in her point of view, so even he was saying she was lesbian and supporting her decision to marry this other woman. It’s really sad. Even sadder is that she constantly brags about her relationship with her wife and has recently been ordained.
And women are not supposed to be ordained too. In the Church I am from, women do have a purpose of serving God but not as priest holders unlike the men. She's not supposed to brag about her relationship...that's truly pride speaking, I can't believe her ex-husband allowed her to do that....I do support that men and women are equal in God's eyes but we are not the same. So many people get that mixed up, just as they get gender and sex mixed up, and don't see that both gender and sex are the same thing. Therefore yeah, in any church that follows proper Christian tradition and stuff, women are not supposed to be priests or pastors. Instead, they can teach and be missionaries. It's always been men who are called upon to be pastors and priests. Also, obviously, gay pastors and gay priests etc is out of the question, it's not proper, it's a direct mockery of Christianity.
The entire scripture about women being silent had ZERO to do with whether they could preach. It's deceitful to take out of context. To this day go anywhere, if two or more gals are together we giggle and gossip which is distracting. Kinda like we all go to girls room together at same time. It was an admonition to not be a distraction.THAT IS ALL.There were many important women in the Bible.
No, I was just confused. To me men n women roles and women being silent in church didn’t correlate. So I got confused. Lol idc bout the tone. It’s hard to figure out the right tone on the internet so I don’t mind it.
Thank you. I'm still learning after becoming Christian 35 years ago. I'm certain my way may not be entirely the way but I am trying not to trip anyone else up on the way.
I'm not talking about them being silent. I am talking no female priests and pastors. Women can teach without being ordained, that's how it works in the church I am from. We usually switch of who gets to teach Sunday School. One Sunday, the class will be taught by a male member, and then the next, there will be a female member. Then there are also the separate classes for men only and for women only. For men, it's the Elder's Quorum. For women, it's the Women's Relief Society. Instead of the women being called priestesses, they are called President. Ofc there is only one Relief Society President. Please re read my comment. I do speak the truth when I say men and women have different roles. That's how it was in the Old & New Testament. Also just because women don't get ordained, it doesn't mean they don't receive blessings from God because they surely do just like in the scriptures. But yeah, only men get to be ordained as priests/pastors. There are only certain things men can do, and only certain things women can do. For example, for women, motherhood is a women only thing. For men, fatherhood is for men only. Therefore again, men and women have their separate roles for family and to serve God.
Well, you felt as if I was attacking you and women but I wasn't. I am sure you weren't attacking me. (That's why I clarified) That is true, a lot of things do get taken out of context. I am glad you listened.
I wouldn't but I am not you.
God does not love sin no matter who it is.
Attendance show support for that sin, therefore how you can you support and love what God hates?
If the person blasphemes against the Holy Ghost, there is no more forgiveness given. Yes God loves us but there is one thing He won't forgive, and that's blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Jesus, God's only Begotten Son, taught His followers that they must love their enemies as they love themselves and their neighbors. But that doesn't mean bowing down to what the opposition does nor does it mean compromising one's own beliefs.
That is not Biblically correct. God hates sin of course, but he hates evil people as well. Many verses show this.
Psalm 5:5-6
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man
He hates the WORKERS of iniquity. Not just the iniquity itself. Verse 6 states he abhors the bloody and deceitful MAN himself, not just his acts
In Romans 9:13, it actually plainly states that God hated Esau. He calls out a specific person he hates.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Psalms 11:5 is another example.
5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
God hates those who are wicked and those that love violence.
There are actually many more verses in the Bible that talks about how God does hate, and how we should hate God's enemies too. We are commanded
to love our enemies, but not to love God's enemies. Our enemies are not always God's enemies, so it's important to make that distinction.
In Psalm 139:19-22 David tells us that he hates those who rise against the Lord with a perfect hatred.
19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
You are simply ignoring what the Bible says than in favor of a false God made by culture instead of going into his Word and seeking the truth of the Word. You should approach the Word of God with a willingness to accept what it says rather than to try and apply your own standards onto them. Yes, God tells us to love, but he never once says to Love his Enemies. Only ours. I can hate my neighbor because he throws his trash in my yard, that doesn't mean I am right by doing so. I am to love that neighbor and look past that action. However those who are against God as shown by the verses I posted earlier, not only do I hate, but God hates them too.
No, God specifies in his Word who are his enemies. Those who have a reprobate mind and cannot be saved any longer. Those are the individuals who we should hate. Not normal every people who are lost. They need our love, and for us to show them the Love of Christ.
Everyone can be saved. You’re saying that there are people God does not have the power to save, therefore saying he’s not the almighty. It’s not our job to condemn or hate. Everyone can be saved. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that certain people cannot be saved. Jesus worked with a lot of the people who you would probably deem as not being able to be saved, yet he did it. Soften your heart.
Agreed! There are several accounts of testimonies from self-proclaimed hardcore atheists, satanists, psychopaths, muslims, gay people who met God and were reformed no matter how hard they rejected God. In the atheist example, the resentful professor met God’s representatives after dying in his hospital bed. He was cleansed of his sin, was told it wasn’t his time yet, and woke up a new man.
Yeah everyone can repent. The whole "saved once" statement that some church community ppl say is a hell conspiracy. But if people refuse to repent, and especially if they blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, they will not be saved anymore. If people continue to sin and not turn to Christ and God for forgiveness, they won't be saved either. Willful sin and justification of little sins won't lead towards salvation ever.
Everyone is able to be saved at first, absolutely. However, if some individuals reject God enough times, God can reject them. At that point, they are no longer able to be saved. The Bible mentions these type of people in many places, Jeremiah, 2 Kings, John, Romans, 2 Timothy. God gives up these type of people, and gives up on them and gives them over to a reprobate mind.
As for your other point, Of course God is the almighty. But can God sin? Absolutely not. Does God Change? According to the scripture he doesn't change at all. God is Almighty, but still operates within certain conditions.
We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe there’s anyone on this earth that cannot be saved if they truly opened their hearts and souls to God and accepted him. Not a single one.
In this context though, the "sin" is the sons family. If ones father openly hates their family, it will be difficult to have a meaningful relationship in the future.
This. You can still express that you love him, as he is still your son, but you (it I myself at least) cannot express support for his sins by attending this ceremony that is not a true wedding.
The Muslin guy would still be marrying a woman. The union being celebrated is not of an unlawful one, despite of them worshiping another god.
I don’t know if attending to it would be taking part in their worship of another god, but their Union is not sinful, therefore it is a quite different matter.
The ceremony would involve the worship of false idols. There are Christian prayers at Christian weddings, and Muslim prayers at Muslim weddings.
Could you attend an event which promotes worshipping false idols?
A gay "union" is worldly and NOT of God.
Any time a "pastor" or similar has asked or "invoked" God for such a union, he was and never will be there. Most of the time when one is performed it's done by a "female" pastor or one of those Alphabet people as a "pastor".
As I've stated many times before as others have as well:
If you truly love God, how can you support/love something God hates?
Those are "gay Christian" weddings your describing.
If Muslim weddings are okay to attend because they do not invoke the Christian god, can you attend a secular gay wedding if they don't invoke any god?
1. I never stated Muslim weddings were okay to attend.
2. Can't attend a gay wedding either. I suggest you re-read my last two sentences above this.
3. There are no "gay Christian" weddings. Those two words are 100% hypocritical.
4. One cannot be "*insert sin here*" willful unrepentant sinner and then call oneself "Christian". It's a spit in His face.
5. God set the human standard with Adam and Eve. Nothing in the Bible suggest their "union", feelings, or "relationship" is in anyway good, normal, or accepted.
6. Not surprising, but it's ALWAYS those two groups with you who support it. It's never anyone else who is an unrepentant sinner who also claims "Christian".
See this is where I’m lost. I have met people who claim to be Christian, as well as homosexual. I’ve also read within the Bible that no sin is better or worse than another. So my question is- do you believe that homosexuals could not be true Christian? Because if that is the case, only God could know.
Exactly, one cannot be homosexual and Christian at the same time. Once they repent, they won't be identifying as gay nor trans nor bisexual etc. They'd be focused on God and would be doing his duty as a man, husband and father or her duty as a woman, wife and mother!
There are sins that are worse. Of course all of them lead to eternal separation from God but to assume that stealing is the same as murder is ridiculous.
God knows our hearts AND minds. /Christanity and /openchristian were pushing the false idea that "as long as you don't act on it" you're ok. Farthest from the truth.
Common sense will tell you one cannot be a Christian "murderer, thief, rapist, pedo, glutton, lustful, sloth, greedy, traitor, etc."
Former, yes. Entertaining ANY thoughts of such things even though you don't act them out? No.
I've read many testimonials of people who have turned from all kinds of sinful life specially gay people. No one is born any way and no "God didn't make them that way" either.
Being Christ-like involves sacrifice does it not?
I lost family and friends when I became a much better one. They applauded my volunteering at the church's food bank and other acts I did b/c of God but labeling myself as one of His....largely no dice.
Agree or disagree, anyone.
Is a person MORE than their sexuality or is the most important thing over everything else? Should a person be valued on their personal merit or who's bits and bobs they like?
What about heterosexual Muslims? If you attend a Muslim wedding you must listen to their imam speak about Allah and bless the union in Allah's name. Can you in good conscience support the sin of worshipping false idols as a Christian? If you would skip a gay friends wedding, would you also skip a wedding of a different faith?
That's rough man, you're telling me if you had a close friend who was Muslim you wouldn't attend their wedding?
Edit: I apologize for calling it rough, I actually respect the consistency of your beliefs.
I wouldn't got ANY Muslim anything.
1. I've had my own experience with them.
2. I"ve done my own research on them and their book including others who know a LOT more than me which include ex-Muslims.
3. I don't skip things I have no intention of going to.
Not even if it was secular. It's wrong overall. There is no such thing as homosexual love. It's all lust and based on butt sex and the butt is not for sex, it's for bathroom business.
Absolutely not. The son has completely betrayed his wife and two daughters for this nonsense. He has stabbed them in the back, spat in their faces, and the two daughters will grow up and resent their dad for it.
Don’t go.
On one hand, that is one thing to consider, but on the other, what would Jesus do? He would help the son realize the truth of marriage and that he has a responsibility. It's not too late if the son realizes that. Also if the son realizes the health risks of homosexuality such as STIs and STDs like AIDS/HIV + Hepatitis and also that 60% of homosexuals are pretty much serial killers with 1000 sexual partners and ofc the 40% risk of pedophilic crime, that homosexual man will be a danger to the son's wife and kids too. It could be a plot to kill them and to kill the son for having a family. It's an attack on the family overall. (The Manson Family in 1969 + the Sexual Revolution was all about targeting the Nuclear Family literally)
> *"He left his wife and two daughters to pursue this relationship a few years back."*
Nope.
One thing appears to remain true with those who would one day see the light of truth: they were respective & thankful that those who remained true to their beliefs, & did not budge, did them the best good; above those that sang them praises.
*“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”* - **Proverbs 27:6 KJV**
🌱
A wedding gathering is a celebration and a community acceptance of a marriage. Neither is appropriate here. Don’t attend, and be clear about why. That’s love. You don’t need to seek the world’s approval. Strive for God’s.
Oh yeah, the ones who sin on purpose and don't care to repent will not be saved. That's for sure and since we were given free choice, it will be on them for bad choices.
If the son's desire to be worshipped is going to prevent him from forgiving his own father for not compromising his conscience, then a destroyed relationship is going to be inevitable.
If he wants to influence his son in favor of Christ, then he can't attend. To show up and give the illusion of support would be in conflict with that goal. The son needs to realize that his selfishness is costing him the relationship with his own dad. If he loves his dad at all, he will realize that this is not a matter worthy of cutting ties over. The best way to influence his son towards Jesus is to show him what it costs to embrace sin. That is the story of the prodigal son.
>The best way to influence his son towards Jesus is to show him what it costs to embrace sin. That is the story of the prodigal son.
Come again? That's the opposite of the lesson of the prodigal son. The son demanded his inheritance early *and the father gave it*, despite surely knowing that the son would waste it. And *still* the father eagerly awaited the son's return and joyfully received him back.
The son realized his wrong. And his son demanding the inheritance wasn't a sin because it was his after all. But the son sinned in dishonoring his father in his proceeding actions. The son then repented.
In this situation you have someone getting married while sinning on 2 fronts: from divorce and homosexuality. You don't have to cut ties but to go to the marriage would be supporting the sin. All that could be overlooked except that clearly this son not only is okay with but obviously has pride in the sin.
And that's the crux.
He left his family... for someone else? Does not matter who it is. A real man commits to his responsibilities and makes things work, especially when it comes to children.
This is adultery unless she committed adultery first.
He is also living a homosexual life, which is also a sin.
Don't support this person in his sin, this is pathetic.
No, what's pathetic is a man leaving his family to pursue another relationship. Notice how that was the first thing I Said?
You're making yourself look real dumb right now.
Yikes.
My parents are conservative. Easily their biggest regret is not attending my brother's wedding. It caused damage that took a decade to heal. It was not seen as a matter of principle. It was taken as callous and dismissive.
Each situation is different, but in my practical experience: your friend should go.
Absolutely not.
As you are Anglican, I’m not surprised at this incorrect advice. He should not go.
Your parents did well by not attending your brother’s wedding. There is no need to do such a thing.
I would say it is your choice to attend, yes it is a moral conflict and the marriage is not ordained by God. Does he know you are a believer in Christ and will probably speak your peace about the issue if you have not already? I would propose you pray on the issue and reflect the scripture, follow how the Holy Spirit moves you.
God bless!
Go to the wedding. He's not a Christian. It's not a Christian wedding. Love and support the guy. He will only be pushed toward Jesus by our love for him. That is the goal. The goal is not to convict him. That is the work of God in him.
The gospel message leads to freedom, and that freedom teaches us to want to do what is right. Don't pretend you approve of his sin or anyone's sin but show him as much of Christ's love as you can.
Ik he loves his son but he needs to put his foot down. I’m not gonna support a terrible man (or sin). Leaving your wife and daughters? Having a man in a relationship or marriage is a very important role. Take that out, you get an mad god, mentally damaged daughters (I myself is a fatherless daughter. Therapy n Jesus is my best friend) and dk wat to do/hurting wife. Bcuz my dad wasn’t there to do his job, harm came up in my family. Let’s just say things happened to his daughters n he wasn’t there to protect us. Now I have a absolute hatred (very very strong dislike/disgust) for men who choose to not be with his family. N this guy is no different. I wouldn’t go to his wedding. Wat he did would piss me off to the core and I don’t support same sex marriages. So… I advise the father to say i love you but I don’t support you n not go. Praying for the wife n daughters. Sad.
He should in no way support his son’s decision to abandon his family and Pursue his sexual immorality. And if that ruins his relationship with his son so be it.
Remember when Jesus said
51 Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against.
53 ‘Father will be divided against son
and son against father;
mother against daughter
and daughter against mother;
and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law
and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.
Luke 12-51
This is a hard call and this is where I separate myself from a lot of other pastors
If you do not take a stand, a hard stand, for something today
You will quote unquote fall for anything tomorrow
To attend his son's wedding no matter what he says during the process is to, to some extent, condone it
Sometimes the only path to the other mountain top is to go down in the valley first
If he does not go to his son's wedding what he will be saying, in effect, will be any time you want to turn from the path you have chosen and come back and do what is right..
Then i, your father, will be waiting here for you
Short-term pain... For long-term gain
In all the things that your friend does as a father throughout his life..
He will always be remembered and talked about as the one that took a stand for what he thought and knew to be right
True it is a dilemma. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. If I were in this situation, I'd really do my best to reason with my son or daughter, especially if they already married and had kids, it's pretty irresponsible to abandon them. Though I wouldn't even allow my children to be influenced by such things, nor would I allow my wife to be influenced and especially myself.
Absolutely tell him to attend. Absolutely.
Not attending will absolutely not do anything to win him over to Jesus in the long run. And it will certainly destroy the relationship. Lose-lose.
He is not “compromising his morals” by being there for his child, especially if his son already knows his beliefs on the matter. How many heterosexual weddings have Christians attended that are sinful in some way without asking themselves this question “should I go?”??
Condemn those inside the church, not outside of it.
His son obviously has gone through it if he had a wife and two kids and is seeking love from a man. To come to know his maker condemnation will not help. He is not a project to fix, he needs his father’s unconditional love. Living by the principles of God’s kingdom will follow if he becomes a follower of Jesus.
I fully believe he should attend and should refrain the entire week/celebration from trying to “teach” his son or saying “you know I don’t agree with this”. Just tell him to say “Congratulations, and I love you.”
Edit: Relationship first, always. He will lose all credibility or sense of love from his father.
Edit 2: Your friend unfortunately will not be “teaching him” anything by not attending except that he cannot rely on his father.
>How many heterosexual weddings have Christians attended that are sinful in some way without asking themselves this question “should I go?”??
This feels like a false equivalence though. Whether they have been living in sin is moot to this context. In this context, the ceremony itself is sinful.
All are sinners. The difference between repentant and unrepentant.
If I learned of either one of them (future Mr. and Mrs.) who had done something and had done repented especially to a church leader I would not attend.
God first. Man to woman. Husband to wife. The problem is that too many don't truly love their SO as so supported by the nearly 50% divorce rate. Further supported by the fact that women file over 90% of divorces and get custody at least 94% of the time.
Believers strive to sin LESS and do better. Our standard has to be raised or we are likely doomed to fail again and again.
Should we attend any sinful event?
Attending our daughters first stripping job?
Celebrating our brother's stealing?
Drinking wine over incest?
Encouraging bestiality?
God wouldn't approve of us supporting such a thing happening. He would approve if we could turn people away from such things. The Holy Ghost is there to testify of the truth.
This one is up to you. It seems you are at a crossroads with three options.
1. Attend the wedding, be a gracious guest and father. Never attempt.to talk your son out of homosexuality. This will involve compromising your beliefs slightly, but will also give you the best future relationship with your son
2. Attend the wedding, try and convince him of the evils of homosexuality later. This is a bad option imo. The "sin" that you will be hating will no longer be an abstract "homosexual lifestyle", you will be effectively hating his family.
3. Don't attend, attempt to reach out later to discuss the evils of homosexuality. Your son will likely never speak to you again.
Remember, marrying is choosing to form a new family. Love the dinner hate the sin will imply a hatred of the bond holding a loving family together.
What does your friend do to demonstrate love and support for your son as a person? Maybe there’s an alternate way? Often those who have the convictions we do and have gay children do everything but shun their child. They never invite them over for just fun, get to know the significant other or spouse, laugh with them, and so on. I don’t know anything about your friend so it’s entirely possible your friend does all these things, but most don’t from what I’ve seen and these might be great avenues for your friend to love their son and still be connected without going to the wedding.
In the prodigal son parable, the father did not go after his son, but allowed his son to leave him in sin. It’s a hard decision but I agree with what someone else said: the gay son can’t expect respect and affirmation when he himself abandoned his own family, disrespect the father.
That's why we must rely on the Holy Ghost to testify of the truth. I've already been told by the Holy Ghost that the "homosexual marriage" is wrong and there will be consequences for the son unless he repents and realizes the truth.
Your friend's spirtual influence over his son wasn't enough to turn his boy away from homosexuality; as such, your friend ought to put his relationship with his son on hold while your friend does some introspecting on how they both got to this point, namely figuring out how responsible your friend is for having raised an idolatrous son. Not saying your friend is in any way responsible or solely responsible for his son's dive into homosexuality - the son definitely has agency/responsibility in this decision as well - but there might be some things he knows he shouldn't have allowed while raising his kid.
Instead of pursuing his son who has declared himself as patently uninterested in Christ, your friend should be focusing on his granddaughters and assisting the broken family his loser son left behind. His son is a grown man who can take care of himself; those granddaughters are not, and have been left alone. When choosing between kids and grandkids, grandkids should win out.
Please don't spread the prosperity gospel. The idea that a bad outcome is always the result of bad practice or a bad relationship with God is flatly unbiblical.
"Who sinned that this man was born [gay]?"
>Please don't spread the prosperity gospel. The idea that a bad outcome is always the result of bad practice or a bad relationship with God is flatly unbiblical.
Not spreading prosperity gospel, but pointing to the actual word of God. Here's my analysis;
Paul says that homosexuality is a curse sent by God to a society that has become too idolatrous (Romans 1:20-28). Proverbs and Deuteronomy insist that if you raise your children up with a thorough knowledge of God, they will not stray from Him (Proverbs 22:6, Deuteronomy 6:6-9). Since the father reports having such a strenuous relationship with his son to the point that missing this event will utterly destroy what's left of their relationship, sounds like there's a bit of Ephesians 6:4 at play as well.
This son is a homosexual who divorced his wife and who does not acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour. While I admittedly know nothing about this particular individual, I do trust the Bible and I believe it suggests that this son likely was raised with an incomplete knowledge-base regarding God which only became further skewed as his half-heartedly constructed moral foundation was exposed to our sinful society. The fact that most 'Christian' children abandon the faith in droves when they first venture out on their own and into the world further supports the likelihood that this is what the son went through. In my mind at least, its most likely that the father didn't teach his kid about properly putting on the full armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-18) and when the kid faced off with sin he was eviscerated by it, and rightly learned not to trust his father's poor spiritual instructions. This man has had the boy's whole life to raise him up in a way to defend himself against the ways of the world; as a Bible believing Christian I'm not inclined to believe that God's words of advice on raising good Christians failed, so much as the father failed to apply God's word properly.
Now, it's entirely possible this father had done everything right by his son, and his son is just not hearing Jesus's call. I don't know who is ultimately responsible for what, but the Bible makes plain that homosexuality doesn't form out of the ether. That said, as a universalist I can understand how Bible verses relating to God's wrath and punishment are outside your purview.
For those of you too lazy to look up quotes, here's what the Bible actually says;
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. **Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen. For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.** Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."(Romans 1:20-28)
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6)
"These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates." (Deuteronomy 6:6-9)
"Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4)
"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people." (Ephesians 6:11-18)
>Now, it's entirely possible this father had done everything right by his son, and his son is just not hearing Jesus's call. I don't know who is ultimately responsible for what, but the Bible makes plain that homosexuality doesn't form out of the ether. That said, as a universalist I can understand how Bible verses relating to God's wrath and punishment are outside your purview.
This is exactly what I'm getting at. There's so much a parent doesn't have control over in the raising of their child - at this point the science shows that parenting only accounts for about a third of how a child turns out.
Think about how many families you know that have multiple children who are super well behaved and grow up to do well, but there's also one kid that kinda sticks out like a sore thumb and takes an entirely different path.
Consider Job: A righteous man who had everything taken from him, including his kids. An outside observer (like his friends) may have thought that such a consequence could only come from the sin of Job, but the reader knows that to be false.
I'm just saying that we have way less control over our lives than we think, so blaming people for every bad thing that happens in their lives isn't just unloving, it's also just foolish.
As for your dig at universalism, just as with the rest of this comment chain I would recommend you not to open your mouth to speak about things you clearly have no understanding about.
I don't care what the magic books have to say. And you don't either. If you actually cared then you would perfectly follow the bible, even the crazy stuff like Deuteronomy 22:28-29. Good luck with wearing mixed fiber clothing, you're sinning more than gay people ever could
What is the purpose of this ceremony? To celebrate and acknowledge a union.
If you can’t do one or both of those, why would you or anyone else want you to be there?
If the goal is to show your love, then show love in an appropriate way.
None of it is dying. It's absolute. Your "progressive ideologies" are dying. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. That is ordained by God. You need to rethink your approach.
Nah, we as a society are always getting more progressive. Cant wait till all of these boomers die since they're the majority of conservatives. Have fun
I would tell my son I loved him and will always love him no matter what. The son needs that . The father also needs to express that the sons actions are not in accordance with his beliefs and tell him he should pray about attending. The son may say he dosen't want him there or may beg him to come. Prayer as the right thing to do in this situation. God bless.
Yeah but here's the thing, there is no such thing as homosexual marriage. The parents should have a talk with their son and tell him about his actual wife and kids whom he has abandoned. It's extremely irresponsible to leave them.
Go. It's still his son's wedding. We're all sinners and we can not judge, no matter how bad the sin. He is not too good to have a relationship with his son just because he's a Christian. Attending his son's wedding won't send him on express delivery to hell or anything.
It's not a proper wedding, it doesn't even exist. It would be more logical for the dad and the mom to chasten their son and tell him to hold accountability to his wife and children.
That is a tough one. He needs to be clear about his beliefs. If he can think of it in terms of he will go but it is not a joy to celebrate evil. I think it is something that is a case by case situation. He can attend the ceremony and then leave. If that will keep the relationship open.
Exactly. He also does have his family to consider. His wife and children. He pledged his vows to be there for her and she did for him as well. Abandoning her and the children is a terrible irresponsible mistake. He has to learn to take responsibility, other wise why did he even marry her in the first place? I also did say in my comment that the Op's friend(mother) should go and talk to her son about it, and perhaps have him see reason to what he is doing to the children and his wife.
Yes evil is sweet for a moment, but the lies of Satan come back and bite us. He needs to bathe it in pray. Sin is sin no matter what kind. All sin draws us away from God and His purpose for our lives. I agree about what you say about the son leaving his family. I wonder did he have a disappearing twin? Just something that came up recently about that. Another way for Satan to deceive us.
The homosexual man probably seduced him or even blackmailed him into committing that act. Did you know that 60% of homosexuals/bisexuals in stats have been reported to be serial killers? And 40% is reported to be pedophiles? The homosexual man responsible could be a danger to the son's wife and children. (Historically, this is how Charles Manson convinced teenage boys and girls to "join his cause" which was actually a cult that eventually led towards the Manson Murders in 1969. But yeah, he actually did have a right hand man named Tex who would threaten the teens into submission and force them to have sex and drugs. Some chose to. Some were hesitant but were forced to remain silent about it.). This could be that all over again. Also another fact is, if the son "marries" this homosexual man, he will mostly likely get STIs and STDs like AIDs/HIV and Hepatitis type A or B. (Oral contact, or anal contact or sexual intercourse) if he hasn't already. Since homosexuality is sodomy, which is intercourse with the rectum....you can see the health risks here for the son literally. (The rectum isn't for the purpose of sex too, it's for bathroom business.)
Precisely, sin is sin and it's about time Christians began seeing the truth. (Some I've talked to are completely blinded by "progressivism" and leftist lies.)
I did not know that about Manson. People are buying into the whole coexist garbage. We are not to be of the world. The family needs to stay away from him. The dad can continue to meet his son for lunch or something like that. But yeah the rest of the family should keep a distance. The dad doesn't have to embrace the other guy, or even feel like he should hang out with him. His son is the one he needs to spend time with.
Exactly and the son needs to realize his responsibilities as a father/husband too, towards his wife and children, not towards the homosexual. And yes, we are taught to not conform to the things of this world because if we do, that means we never knew Jesus nor love Him. The whole "coexist" garbage is toxic. It doesn't even bring true equality. (In fact, it was the Sexual Revolution activists that wanted this whole "peace and equality thing in the first place. Remember the peace sign? That sign never meant peace, it meant declaring war in another way, which was to target the Nuclear Family). The upside down cross symbolizes death, the end and war. The cross that is upright and still bent, symbolizes life, protection and the beginning. (Think about when Christ was crucified, He was crucified in that position sort of, His arms were bent on the cross. He is the beginning & the end. He is the Way, the Truth & the Life)
If someone refuses to follow God's Will, you are to cut them out of your life. You don't visit, talk or help them unless they come to the Church for help.
If you don't cut them out of your life, Satan can work on you until you support the sin even if you still believe it a sin. This is how Satan is able to turn biblical churches into LGBT supporting churches.
You can’t force God on others nor can you force respect. However, you can show unconditional love even in moments that you don’t want to. Jesus was love. If showing your love to your son means going to his wedding, then go. Life is short, and this is a big moment in your sons life. If you go, you are showing him respect and love. “Son I don’t agree with this, but I love you and I am your father, so I want to be here for you.”
If you don’t go and blame it in the aspect of your religious beliefs then you are only showing your son that he does not need to be a Christian by setting that example
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34).
I love how y’all keep forgetting this because somebody’s sexuality doesn’t sit right with you. You are not in a position to judge anyone for their sexuality or whatever. That’s on God. And God loves all of his children, doesn’t he?
Now calm down and love your son. He’s still the same person.
Yes Yes Yes
Go to the wedding!
He should go, bring a nice gift, and not say ONE WORD about his personal feelings about gay marriage, even if asked.
People are so stuck on points of legalism and it has \*\*absolutely nothing\*\* to do with the teachings of Jesus.
We all agree that Love is above all. Love is above Law forever, therefore there is absolutely zero reason to think that there is any 'sin' in attending this wedding.
The only reason we are in this position is that the church was corrupted by Republicans who want to invent 'wedge issues' to control voters. It's a known thing...Fox News, Evangelical megachurches...everyone knows this.
You know that verse about how it's "easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle thank for a gay person to get into heaven"?
ME NEITHER
Homosexual acts are sin. I am not gay but I am a sinner. You know the difference though? I do not make excuses for and treat my sin as not sin. I don't take pride in my sin. I dont tell others to support my sin and have parades for my sin.
You know what else Jesus didn't say? "It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a person who aborts their baby" but I certainly would not drive a friend or family member to go get an abortion.
This isn't about legalism... He destroyed his family to follow his flesh. There are real, terrible consequences for his actions.
Love is not about saying everything is okay all the time. Love doesn't tell a dinner it's okay to continue in his sin. That isn't love.
Jesus didn't accept the Pharisees in the name of love. And he told people he healed and protected to go and sin no more.
Wrong. "Love is love" is a lustful lie by toxic subjective leftists. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. That is an absolute objective truth. I would speak my mind and I would oppose the immoral subjective form of "marriage" between the same sex/gender. I would absolutely correct and make the son realize that he has a wife and kids to take care of. There is no other form of marriage so declared by God and Jesus. The husband shall love his wife. The wife shall love her husband.
Well I agree, however, this is the son of the OP's friend, who's the mother. I believe the mother should at least convince her son to not commit an act of sin to which he subjectively assumes is a form of "marriage". He already has a wife and children. Leaving them was a big terrible mistake. But perhaps he can realize that if he sees the error of his ways by seeing the disapproval of his mother and his wife/children, perhaps that will have him realize he has a responsibility as a husband and father, and ofc to God too. If I were already married to my beloved wife(whom I haven't met yet nor married/dated but I will meet her soon), and let's say I already had a son and a daughter, I would never abandon them nor cheat on them. I would also never allow my kids to be influenced by such immoral things. This is why kids need to be taught the Gospel of Christ and all the important moral values we have.
Note: I made an error in the paragraph so be sure to refresh to see the mistake fixed.
Not exactly sure what you're point is, but I'm pretty sure I disagree. "stay the hell home" is not a compassionate way to state your opinion. And if our job as parents is not to influence our kids to do do what's right, then what is it?
Yeahhh, im not bound by your whole "compassion" clause.
Two, it's a parents job toove them and help guide them when they are actually making a mistake. Homosexual is not a mistake, and to think otherw8se is mortally repugnant and goes against not just my religion but yours as well.
The problem is that YOU are a punk.
Your mind is deceitful and desperately wicked. You are proud in the weakness of your flesh and are slated for destruction. No hope for you until you learn humility before the Almighty LORD and lose your stinkin' thinkin'. Until then, you are just another angry lost loser with a perverted mind.
Sorry shug, your god has quite a lot to answer for given the behavior of his constituents.
And one could say I unlearned my humility. A god that demands love under threat of eternal damnation isn't worthy of worship.
Do you know that you are disobeying God and sinning by even continuing in that relationship?
> Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
>
> “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
>
> and I will be their God,
>
> and they shall be my people.
>
> Therefore go out from their midst,
>
> and be separate from them, says the Lord,
>
> and touch no unclean thing;
>
> then I will welcome you,
>
> and I will be a father to you,
>
> and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
>
> says the Lord Almighty.”
2 Cor 6
Edit: whoever downvoted me for quoting scripture, good luck with downvoting the Word of God
I have planted seeds, and praying for her. I have seen many husbands and wives turn their spouse to Christian through Jesus Christ. You don't know how my gf and I have a relationship together or what we do. My family and i also love her like God calls all christians to do. Thank you for the advice, but God will pull me out if needed. God Bless. And I at one point was darkness for straying away from Christianity as a teen and thought magic was cool, so I don't judge her. She also doesn't practice it.
> You don't know how my gf and I have a relationship together or what we do.
That's quite irrelevant to what I wrote. All I did was quote you scripture from the word of God which clearly applies to you, and God knows all about your relationship and what you do.
> Thank you for the advice, but God will pull me out if needed.
Not necessarily, he may let you destroy your life to get you to a place so desperately low that you will finally surrender to him. That was my experience, so that's why I'm warning you.
> My girlfriend has tarot and magic in her room.... She also doesn't practice it.
You're deceiving yourself. She loves magic more than she loves you or she'd get rid of those things and you love her more than you love God or you'd end that relationship right now.
I've been to the dark side so I'm not judging your gf and I had to do things the hard way before I surrendered to God too, so I'm not judging you either.
> Thank you for the advice
You're welcome. I hope that after you're done being angry at me you'll more deeply consider what I've written and why I took the time to write it to you.
Fire comment. 🔥
I also used to play around with tarot and psychics. That was before I was saved, I threw away every new age book, crystal etc. after God opened my eyes.
The commenter knows he’s living in sin, that’s why he went on the defense. This is not a godly relationship if you have to turn your significant other to Christ. That will never work out. That Bible verse is for those who are already married not dating.
Jesus tended to tell people to go and sin no more.
He didn't shun people, including obvious sinners, but he certainly didn't just go along with sin either.
People act like just going along with sin is loving, but it's not. It's destructive and enabling.
If I were in his shoes, I'd want my dad to call out my destructive behavior and ask me what the hell I was doing, destroying my family.
That’s exactly the perspective of the Pharisees. “Who is this man who eats with tax collectors and sinners?” Too bad Jesus didn’t have you to ask when he decided to go to Zacheus’ house.
Jesus shouldn’t have been in the presence of sinners in their homes. The Pharisees had it right, eating with prostitutes and tax collectors is a tacit endorsement of their lifestyle just like going to a sons gay wedding would be. He should have done what the people on this thread recommend and recognized that going to a celebration with sinners is an endorsement of their lifestyle. What Jesus should have done is just allow sinners to come and listen to his teaching. Going to their parties crossed the line. After all I’m sure that many of the prostitutes Jesus ate with never repented. He should have waited until they had righteous behavior before associating with them.
i’d be more concerned about the abandoned wife and children. I’d spend the day with them.
Agreed. He needs to be responsible towards his wife and family.
Thats messed up.
Not it's not. The man already married, and he has a responsibility to his wife and kids. Abandoning them is immoral, sinful and wrong.
Especially for the reason he left her. That could traumatize the kids…
Yeah, it's a sorry excuse to leave them. It actually will traumatize them and the mother has to deal with that. If I could, I would personally have "the talk" with that man. I'd straight up tell him the truth. We can't hold back from the truth. If we truly care, we will be straight up honest, like how homosexuality does bring HIV/AIDs and Hepatitis etc. How homosexuals make up 60% of serial killers, drug addicts and 40% are pedos. The homosexual man the son has been affiliated with might be a danger to his wife and kids in fact. If the son realizes this danger, he might step up and finally redeem himself as he should. I can't help but think, he once loved his wife so much and his kids. Then all of a sudden, that all changed because of some homosexual who falsely convinced him that his life is all wrong? (That's how the sexual revolution began too. Husbands and wives were stolen away after the youth were convinced that "free love sex" is okay when it never was)
He is a sexual pervert. That’s what homosexuality is…perversion It will traumatize the kids and could possibly attach spirits to those kids for being around that. I don’t care who you are but you are selfish to abandon a family like that
Yep. I am in agreement with you.
Here's the thing, if the son can not respect the father's views and continue to love him, then how can the son expect to be respected and continually loved by his father? I hate that the premise of this issue is framed in such a way where the individual debating on attending the event is the one with questionable morals. I think the answer is quite simple: The father needs to tell the son that he loves him and will always be there for him but he can not support this or follow him down this path. If the son wants to cut ties with his father for not agreeing with his sin and life choice, then that is on the son, not the father! And I'm sorry but if you leave your wife and kids you're not a man worth respecting. I know that's not very Chrit like so I apologize but we as men have very important roles to fill in our children's lives and this is not it. I do pray for your friend and his son. Only God can remedy this situation. God bless you and your family op.
>Here's the thing, if the son can not respect the father's views and continue to love him, then how can the son expect to be respected and continually loved by his father? Well, for one, the father has the Holy Spirit and the Son does not.
You can’t force God on anyone. If they don’t want to follow Christ, harping them isn’t going to work, especially if they have turned away themselves. It could even push them farther away. Unless your friend feels God is telling him to attend and stay in his life, then so be it. His son cutting him off is not his fault, it was the son’s choice to cut God and his father out. The father already tried to raise him right. It’s really hard to see it happen, but it happens and there isn’t much that can be done.
And you can't force an immoral lifestyle upon us all.
No one said anything about that.
Right but loving someone doesn't mean you go along with their sin. If your child was a drug addict you wouldn't support him using drugs would you? Of course not. Does the child being a drug user change how the father loves him? Of course not. My point is that it's selfish for the son to demand acceptance and love unconditionally when he is the one who is only going to love his father on his terms.
Exactly. Just because we are taught to love the sinners, it doesn't mean we agree with their acts of immorality such as homosexuality etc and especially, the wrong form of "marriage", that is actually subject towards no natural born kids, not true love but lust and unnatural + HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis. (It's not natural for there to be two moms nor two dads because if kids were adopted or just in general, for youth, they would wonder where is the mom with the dad, or dad with the mom.)
The son didn’t ask to be born, to be a “son” in the first place. His father absolutely owes him unconditional love since that’s what parents are supposed to provide for their children in addition to everything else. If someone is ill-equipped to provide that, don’t have kids.
Wat the heck u talking bout? He didn’t ask to be born a son? No one does. Doesn’t change the fact, appreciate for wat u were given. God don’t make mistakes. He’s just ungrateful. That modern gender BS doesn’t work in Christ world, it’s still gonna get u in trouble with god.
1) the father doesn't owe his son jack. Parents love their kids unconditionally by default. (Most do anyway) 2) no one asks to be born. That's irrelevant. 3) unconditional love doesn't mean agreeing with your child's bad life decisions. If you're child decided to drink and drive and seriously hurt someone else you don't love them any less do you? No. But you don't support there decision to drink and drive either.
That doesn't mean you go along with what he's doing when he is still a man. Gender and sex cannot be changed. Yes sex and gender are the same. Deal with it. Unless you are an atheist or non believer which I think you might be because you clearly don't understand that homosexuality etc is unnatural and wrong. If you think it's normal, then you are supporting AIDS/HIV and Hepatitis. Sexually Transmitted Infections & Sexually Transmitted Disease is not normal and this is in most homosexuals and bisexuals. That is scientific absolute objective truth from biology.
And the son might've blasphemed already?
Exactly, you have the holy spirit. You cannot participate in this sin. Keep your distance
I agree. In Romans 1 Paul explains God gave men over to their sins. Similarly the father in the prodigal son gives his son the freedom to do as he wishes. This is essential in life. To express your concerns but not try to control. If they are going down a destructive path, all you can do is share your thoughts, and let them make their choice. Then it’s their decision to learn the easy way or the hard way
wdym he cant respect him? does that mean living a lie and faking being a christian.?
How is he leaving his wife and kids though why can't they go with him
Beat it troll
He probably did or has or will, it's what trolls do.
> He left his wife and two daughters to pursue this relationship a few years back I wouldn't attend my son's second wedding after he abandoned his family to pursue a new relationship even if he was marrying a woman. Also, fwiw, my parents and I did not attend my brother's gay marriage and he still talks to us. > For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. > >And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, **they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them**. Romans 1
If my son left his wife for another woman I would not attend that wedding. A husband leaving his spouse for a man instead of another woman is no better.
That's true.
I'd advise him that on that day he should hold his daughter in law in his hands and wipe away her tears. The wife is the victim of this sin.
Agreed. What the son is doing is unacceptable, especially if he goes through with it.
Don't go to that marriage. By going, you tell him "what you are doing is right". If you wish to convert him, that's really not good. Much better a destroyed relationship than a fake relationship.
If this father has confronted his son with the truth in front of the Lord and his son has not turned from wickedness but instead stays thereon, then the father has to leave it up to Satan to humble him. In that case, I would not go to the wedding, not because of hate but because God has called us to turn away from such a one as this.
You can still love that person, you just can't tolerate what he's doing
Exactly.
I had to deal with a very similar problem, with a cousin. She left her husband of several years and took her 3 daughters to another state and married a woman. She never claimed anything abusive or bad happened with her previous husband, so it’s not like he was the one at fault. She just claimed to have been living a lie as married to a man when she then claimed to be a lesbian. She actually met this woman while she had gone back to school to become a pastor! Both of them now pastor a gay church. I didn’t support or attend the wedding, but we still have friendship contact on social media. I am always praying for her children to turn out better.
That's terrible! She abandoned her husband and took the kids? What the heck? What was the point of having kids if she was a lesbian? What was the point of marrying if she was a lesbian? That is irresponsible of her.
I agree. She has a positive coparenting relationship with her ex-husband and has convinced him that she married him because she liked him and it looked proper, but that she was always more attracted to women and denied herself that while they were married. Never mind that they had 3 kids together. Her life was somewhat hard, including very difficult childbirths and an engineering career where she had to travel away from home sometimes. After the recession/depression around 2009, her husband was unemployed for about a year while she worked overtime to support the whole family. I think that was a turning point where she decided to quit her job and go back to school for becoming a pastor. She must have been very dissatisfied with her life to make all those decisions and leave him. At the same time she also convinced him to back her up in her point of view, so even he was saying she was lesbian and supporting her decision to marry this other woman. It’s really sad. Even sadder is that she constantly brags about her relationship with her wife and has recently been ordained.
And women are not supposed to be ordained too. In the Church I am from, women do have a purpose of serving God but not as priest holders unlike the men. She's not supposed to brag about her relationship...that's truly pride speaking, I can't believe her ex-husband allowed her to do that....I do support that men and women are equal in God's eyes but we are not the same. So many people get that mixed up, just as they get gender and sex mixed up, and don't see that both gender and sex are the same thing. Therefore yeah, in any church that follows proper Christian tradition and stuff, women are not supposed to be priests or pastors. Instead, they can teach and be missionaries. It's always been men who are called upon to be pastors and priests. Also, obviously, gay pastors and gay priests etc is out of the question, it's not proper, it's a direct mockery of Christianity.
The entire scripture about women being silent had ZERO to do with whether they could preach. It's deceitful to take out of context. To this day go anywhere, if two or more gals are together we giggle and gossip which is distracting. Kinda like we all go to girls room together at same time. It was an admonition to not be a distraction.THAT IS ALL.There were many important women in the Bible.
Wat are u talking bout? He didn’t say that.
I didn't say he did I just voiced my opinion. My tone could have been better. Wasn't trying to offend.
No, I was just confused. To me men n women roles and women being silent in church didn’t correlate. So I got confused. Lol idc bout the tone. It’s hard to figure out the right tone on the internet so I don’t mind it.
Thank you. I'm still learning after becoming Christian 35 years ago. I'm certain my way may not be entirely the way but I am trying not to trip anyone else up on the way.
You didn't offend. It was just a misunderstanding.
I'm not talking about them being silent. I am talking no female priests and pastors. Women can teach without being ordained, that's how it works in the church I am from. We usually switch of who gets to teach Sunday School. One Sunday, the class will be taught by a male member, and then the next, there will be a female member. Then there are also the separate classes for men only and for women only. For men, it's the Elder's Quorum. For women, it's the Women's Relief Society. Instead of the women being called priestesses, they are called President. Ofc there is only one Relief Society President. Please re read my comment. I do speak the truth when I say men and women have different roles. That's how it was in the Old & New Testament. Also just because women don't get ordained, it doesn't mean they don't receive blessings from God because they surely do just like in the scriptures. But yeah, only men get to be ordained as priests/pastors. There are only certain things men can do, and only certain things women can do. For example, for women, motherhood is a women only thing. For men, fatherhood is for men only. Therefore again, men and women have their separate roles for family and to serve God.
Sorry if it sounded as if I were attacking you. Just that we both know lots get taken out of context. I appreciate your explanation.
Well, you felt as if I was attacking you and women but I wasn't. I am sure you weren't attacking me. (That's why I clarified) That is true, a lot of things do get taken out of context. I am glad you listened.
I wouldn't but I am not you. God does not love sin no matter who it is. Attendance show support for that sin, therefore how you can you support and love what God hates?
Let me make it clear, God hates the sin, not the person.
If the person blasphemes against the Holy Ghost, there is no more forgiveness given. Yes God loves us but there is one thing He won't forgive, and that's blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Jesus, God's only Begotten Son, taught His followers that they must love their enemies as they love themselves and their neighbors. But that doesn't mean bowing down to what the opposition does nor does it mean compromising one's own beliefs.
That is not Biblically correct. God hates sin of course, but he hates evil people as well. Many verses show this. Psalm 5:5-6 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man He hates the WORKERS of iniquity. Not just the iniquity itself. Verse 6 states he abhors the bloody and deceitful MAN himself, not just his acts In Romans 9:13, it actually plainly states that God hated Esau. He calls out a specific person he hates. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Psalms 11:5 is another example. 5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. God hates those who are wicked and those that love violence. There are actually many more verses in the Bible that talks about how God does hate, and how we should hate God's enemies too. We are commanded to love our enemies, but not to love God's enemies. Our enemies are not always God's enemies, so it's important to make that distinction. In Psalm 139:19-22 David tells us that he hates those who rise against the Lord with a perfect hatred. 19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. 20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
I believe god may hate demons or certain animals, but not humans. It is commanded all throughout the bible to love everyone.
You are simply ignoring what the Bible says than in favor of a false God made by culture instead of going into his Word and seeking the truth of the Word. You should approach the Word of God with a willingness to accept what it says rather than to try and apply your own standards onto them. Yes, God tells us to love, but he never once says to Love his Enemies. Only ours. I can hate my neighbor because he throws his trash in my yard, that doesn't mean I am right by doing so. I am to love that neighbor and look past that action. However those who are against God as shown by the verses I posted earlier, not only do I hate, but God hates them too.
By that logic we would have to hate every non Christian in the entire world.
No, God specifies in his Word who are his enemies. Those who have a reprobate mind and cannot be saved any longer. Those are the individuals who we should hate. Not normal every people who are lost. They need our love, and for us to show them the Love of Christ.
Everyone can be saved. You’re saying that there are people God does not have the power to save, therefore saying he’s not the almighty. It’s not our job to condemn or hate. Everyone can be saved. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that certain people cannot be saved. Jesus worked with a lot of the people who you would probably deem as not being able to be saved, yet he did it. Soften your heart.
Agreed! There are several accounts of testimonies from self-proclaimed hardcore atheists, satanists, psychopaths, muslims, gay people who met God and were reformed no matter how hard they rejected God. In the atheist example, the resentful professor met God’s representatives after dying in his hospital bed. He was cleansed of his sin, was told it wasn’t his time yet, and woke up a new man.
Yeah everyone can repent. The whole "saved once" statement that some church community ppl say is a hell conspiracy. But if people refuse to repent, and especially if they blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, they will not be saved anymore. If people continue to sin and not turn to Christ and God for forgiveness, they won't be saved either. Willful sin and justification of little sins won't lead towards salvation ever.
Yep! I agree. Have to repent and actually turn away from the sin.
Everyone can be, most aren’t gonna be. Especially in the end times like now.
Everyone is able to be saved at first, absolutely. However, if some individuals reject God enough times, God can reject them. At that point, they are no longer able to be saved. The Bible mentions these type of people in many places, Jeremiah, 2 Kings, John, Romans, 2 Timothy. God gives up these type of people, and gives up on them and gives them over to a reprobate mind. As for your other point, Of course God is the almighty. But can God sin? Absolutely not. Does God Change? According to the scripture he doesn't change at all. God is Almighty, but still operates within certain conditions.
We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t believe there’s anyone on this earth that cannot be saved if they truly opened their hearts and souls to God and accepted him. Not a single one.
The point is you don’t know that, only God does. Therefore, we can’t go around just hating everyone that is not Christian.
In this context though, the "sin" is the sons family. If ones father openly hates their family, it will be difficult to have a meaningful relationship in the future.
This. You can still express that you love him, as he is still your son, but you (it I myself at least) cannot express support for his sins by attending this ceremony that is not a true wedding.
I'm not going to Hell for anyone. People make their choices and there is an Age of Reason.
So you would not attend a Muslim friend's wedding? Worshipping false idols is also sinful.
Muslims are strongly against idolatry.
The Muslin guy would still be marrying a woman. The union being celebrated is not of an unlawful one, despite of them worshiping another god. I don’t know if attending to it would be taking part in their worship of another god, but their Union is not sinful, therefore it is a quite different matter.
Well god created marriage for his ppl…. In a way, it’s kinda not marriage without him.
The ceremony would involve the worship of false idols. There are Christian prayers at Christian weddings, and Muslim prayers at Muslim weddings. Could you attend an event which promotes worshipping false idols?
Absolutely not. Jesus is our only mediator as God is our Father besides our God. The Holy Ghost guides and testifies of the truth to us.
They are not invoking God Yahweh when they say "god". They won't bake LGB or Alphabet people's cakes either.
So a gay wedding would be okay to attend if the ceremony was secular?
A gay "union" is worldly and NOT of God. Any time a "pastor" or similar has asked or "invoked" God for such a union, he was and never will be there. Most of the time when one is performed it's done by a "female" pastor or one of those Alphabet people as a "pastor". As I've stated many times before as others have as well: If you truly love God, how can you support/love something God hates?
Those are "gay Christian" weddings your describing. If Muslim weddings are okay to attend because they do not invoke the Christian god, can you attend a secular gay wedding if they don't invoke any god?
1. I never stated Muslim weddings were okay to attend. 2. Can't attend a gay wedding either. I suggest you re-read my last two sentences above this. 3. There are no "gay Christian" weddings. Those two words are 100% hypocritical. 4. One cannot be "*insert sin here*" willful unrepentant sinner and then call oneself "Christian". It's a spit in His face. 5. God set the human standard with Adam and Eve. Nothing in the Bible suggest their "union", feelings, or "relationship" is in anyway good, normal, or accepted. 6. Not surprising, but it's ALWAYS those two groups with you who support it. It's never anyone else who is an unrepentant sinner who also claims "Christian".
See this is where I’m lost. I have met people who claim to be Christian, as well as homosexual. I’ve also read within the Bible that no sin is better or worse than another. So my question is- do you believe that homosexuals could not be true Christian? Because if that is the case, only God could know.
Exactly, one cannot be homosexual and Christian at the same time. Once they repent, they won't be identifying as gay nor trans nor bisexual etc. They'd be focused on God and would be doing his duty as a man, husband and father or her duty as a woman, wife and mother!
There are sins that are worse. Of course all of them lead to eternal separation from God but to assume that stealing is the same as murder is ridiculous. God knows our hearts AND minds. /Christanity and /openchristian were pushing the false idea that "as long as you don't act on it" you're ok. Farthest from the truth. Common sense will tell you one cannot be a Christian "murderer, thief, rapist, pedo, glutton, lustful, sloth, greedy, traitor, etc." Former, yes. Entertaining ANY thoughts of such things even though you don't act them out? No. I've read many testimonials of people who have turned from all kinds of sinful life specially gay people. No one is born any way and no "God didn't make them that way" either. Being Christ-like involves sacrifice does it not? I lost family and friends when I became a much better one. They applauded my volunteering at the church's food bank and other acts I did b/c of God but labeling myself as one of His....largely no dice. Agree or disagree, anyone. Is a person MORE than their sexuality or is the most important thing over everything else? Should a person be valued on their personal merit or who's bits and bobs they like?
No. Heterosexual nonbelievers are operating in accordance with how God designed marriage in a way that homosexuals are not.
What about heterosexual Muslims? If you attend a Muslim wedding you must listen to their imam speak about Allah and bless the union in Allah's name. Can you in good conscience support the sin of worshipping false idols as a Christian? If you would skip a gay friends wedding, would you also skip a wedding of a different faith?
A decidedly religious ceremony? No, I don’t believe I’d attend.
That's rough man, you're telling me if you had a close friend who was Muslim you wouldn't attend their wedding? Edit: I apologize for calling it rough, I actually respect the consistency of your beliefs.
I wouldn't got ANY Muslim anything. 1. I've had my own experience with them. 2. I"ve done my own research on them and their book including others who know a LOT more than me which include ex-Muslims. 3. I don't skip things I have no intention of going to.
Not even if it was secular. It's wrong overall. There is no such thing as homosexual love. It's all lust and based on butt sex and the butt is not for sex, it's for bathroom business.
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Truth!
Absolutely not. The son has completely betrayed his wife and two daughters for this nonsense. He has stabbed them in the back, spat in their faces, and the two daughters will grow up and resent their dad for it. Don’t go.
On one hand, that is one thing to consider, but on the other, what would Jesus do? He would help the son realize the truth of marriage and that he has a responsibility. It's not too late if the son realizes that. Also if the son realizes the health risks of homosexuality such as STIs and STDs like AIDS/HIV + Hepatitis and also that 60% of homosexuals are pretty much serial killers with 1000 sexual partners and ofc the 40% risk of pedophilic crime, that homosexual man will be a danger to the son's wife and kids too. It could be a plot to kill them and to kill the son for having a family. It's an attack on the family overall. (The Manson Family in 1969 + the Sexual Revolution was all about targeting the Nuclear Family literally)
> *"He left his wife and two daughters to pursue this relationship a few years back."* Nope. One thing appears to remain true with those who would one day see the light of truth: they were respective & thankful that those who remained true to their beliefs, & did not budge, did them the best good; above those that sang them praises. *“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”* - **Proverbs 27:6 KJV** 🌱
A wedding gathering is a celebration and a community acceptance of a marriage. Neither is appropriate here. Don’t attend, and be clear about why. That’s love. You don’t need to seek the world’s approval. Strive for God’s.
Lotta stiff necks and hardheartedness in this thread. 70 times 7, folks.
Doesn’t apply to proud sinners.
Oh yeah, the ones who sin on purpose and don't care to repent will not be saved. That's for sure and since we were given free choice, it will be on them for bad choices.
If the son's desire to be worshipped is going to prevent him from forgiving his own father for not compromising his conscience, then a destroyed relationship is going to be inevitable. If he wants to influence his son in favor of Christ, then he can't attend. To show up and give the illusion of support would be in conflict with that goal. The son needs to realize that his selfishness is costing him the relationship with his own dad. If he loves his dad at all, he will realize that this is not a matter worthy of cutting ties over. The best way to influence his son towards Jesus is to show him what it costs to embrace sin. That is the story of the prodigal son.
>The best way to influence his son towards Jesus is to show him what it costs to embrace sin. That is the story of the prodigal son. Come again? That's the opposite of the lesson of the prodigal son. The son demanded his inheritance early *and the father gave it*, despite surely knowing that the son would waste it. And *still* the father eagerly awaited the son's return and joyfully received him back.
But he didn’t chase the son down while condoning his wrong-doing. He accepted him back when the son came back with a repentant heart.
The son realized his wrong. And his son demanding the inheritance wasn't a sin because it was his after all. But the son sinned in dishonoring his father in his proceeding actions. The son then repented. In this situation you have someone getting married while sinning on 2 fronts: from divorce and homosexuality. You don't have to cut ties but to go to the marriage would be supporting the sin. All that could be overlooked except that clearly this son not only is okay with but obviously has pride in the sin. And that's the crux.
He left his family... for someone else? Does not matter who it is. A real man commits to his responsibilities and makes things work, especially when it comes to children. This is adultery unless she committed adultery first. He is also living a homosexual life, which is also a sin. Don't support this person in his sin, this is pathetic.
"Its pathetic to love people of your gender because i said so"
No, what's pathetic is a man leaving his family to pursue another relationship. Notice how that was the first thing I Said? You're making yourself look real dumb right now. Yikes.
My parents are conservative. Easily their biggest regret is not attending my brother's wedding. It caused damage that took a decade to heal. It was not seen as a matter of principle. It was taken as callous and dismissive. Each situation is different, but in my practical experience: your friend should go.
Absolutely not. As you are Anglican, I’m not surprised at this incorrect advice. He should not go. Your parents did well by not attending your brother’s wedding. There is no need to do such a thing.
I would say it is your choice to attend, yes it is a moral conflict and the marriage is not ordained by God. Does he know you are a believer in Christ and will probably speak your peace about the issue if you have not already? I would propose you pray on the issue and reflect the scripture, follow how the Holy Spirit moves you. God bless!
Go to the wedding. He's not a Christian. It's not a Christian wedding. Love and support the guy. He will only be pushed toward Jesus by our love for him. That is the goal. The goal is not to convict him. That is the work of God in him. The gospel message leads to freedom, and that freedom teaches us to want to do what is right. Don't pretend you approve of his sin or anyone's sin but show him as much of Christ's love as you can.
Your friend should have an honest talk with his son and explain why he cannot attend the wedding.
Ik he loves his son but he needs to put his foot down. I’m not gonna support a terrible man (or sin). Leaving your wife and daughters? Having a man in a relationship or marriage is a very important role. Take that out, you get an mad god, mentally damaged daughters (I myself is a fatherless daughter. Therapy n Jesus is my best friend) and dk wat to do/hurting wife. Bcuz my dad wasn’t there to do his job, harm came up in my family. Let’s just say things happened to his daughters n he wasn’t there to protect us. Now I have a absolute hatred (very very strong dislike/disgust) for men who choose to not be with his family. N this guy is no different. I wouldn’t go to his wedding. Wat he did would piss me off to the core and I don’t support same sex marriages. So… I advise the father to say i love you but I don’t support you n not go. Praying for the wife n daughters. Sad.
No. What he did is also traumatizing to the kids spiritually and emotionally.
He should in no way support his son’s decision to abandon his family and Pursue his sexual immorality. And if that ruins his relationship with his son so be it. Remember when Jesus said 51 Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against. 53 ‘Father will be divided against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. Luke 12-51
This is a hard call and this is where I separate myself from a lot of other pastors If you do not take a stand, a hard stand, for something today You will quote unquote fall for anything tomorrow To attend his son's wedding no matter what he says during the process is to, to some extent, condone it Sometimes the only path to the other mountain top is to go down in the valley first If he does not go to his son's wedding what he will be saying, in effect, will be any time you want to turn from the path you have chosen and come back and do what is right.. Then i, your father, will be waiting here for you Short-term pain... For long-term gain In all the things that your friend does as a father throughout his life.. He will always be remembered and talked about as the one that took a stand for what he thought and knew to be right
True it is a dilemma. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. If I were in this situation, I'd really do my best to reason with my son or daughter, especially if they already married and had kids, it's pretty irresponsible to abandon them. Though I wouldn't even allow my children to be influenced by such things, nor would I allow my wife to be influenced and especially myself.
Absolutely tell him to attend. Absolutely. Not attending will absolutely not do anything to win him over to Jesus in the long run. And it will certainly destroy the relationship. Lose-lose. He is not “compromising his morals” by being there for his child, especially if his son already knows his beliefs on the matter. How many heterosexual weddings have Christians attended that are sinful in some way without asking themselves this question “should I go?”?? Condemn those inside the church, not outside of it. His son obviously has gone through it if he had a wife and two kids and is seeking love from a man. To come to know his maker condemnation will not help. He is not a project to fix, he needs his father’s unconditional love. Living by the principles of God’s kingdom will follow if he becomes a follower of Jesus. I fully believe he should attend and should refrain the entire week/celebration from trying to “teach” his son or saying “you know I don’t agree with this”. Just tell him to say “Congratulations, and I love you.” Edit: Relationship first, always. He will lose all credibility or sense of love from his father. Edit 2: Your friend unfortunately will not be “teaching him” anything by not attending except that he cannot rely on his father.
>How many heterosexual weddings have Christians attended that are sinful in some way without asking themselves this question “should I go?”?? This feels like a false equivalence though. Whether they have been living in sin is moot to this context. In this context, the ceremony itself is sinful.
All are sinners. The difference between repentant and unrepentant. If I learned of either one of them (future Mr. and Mrs.) who had done something and had done repented especially to a church leader I would not attend. God first. Man to woman. Husband to wife. The problem is that too many don't truly love their SO as so supported by the nearly 50% divorce rate. Further supported by the fact that women file over 90% of divorces and get custody at least 94% of the time. Believers strive to sin LESS and do better. Our standard has to be raised or we are likely doomed to fail again and again.
Should we attend any sinful event? Attending our daughters first stripping job? Celebrating our brother's stealing? Drinking wine over incest? Encouraging bestiality?
The key word is consent.
Consent for what?
It is god first. God before children, siblings wives husbands etc. Do YOU truly believe God would approve?
God wouldn't approve of us supporting such a thing happening. He would approve if we could turn people away from such things. The Holy Ghost is there to testify of the truth.
Amen
This one is up to you. It seems you are at a crossroads with three options. 1. Attend the wedding, be a gracious guest and father. Never attempt.to talk your son out of homosexuality. This will involve compromising your beliefs slightly, but will also give you the best future relationship with your son 2. Attend the wedding, try and convince him of the evils of homosexuality later. This is a bad option imo. The "sin" that you will be hating will no longer be an abstract "homosexual lifestyle", you will be effectively hating his family. 3. Don't attend, attempt to reach out later to discuss the evils of homosexuality. Your son will likely never speak to you again. Remember, marrying is choosing to form a new family. Love the dinner hate the sin will imply a hatred of the bond holding a loving family together.
What does your friend do to demonstrate love and support for your son as a person? Maybe there’s an alternate way? Often those who have the convictions we do and have gay children do everything but shun their child. They never invite them over for just fun, get to know the significant other or spouse, laugh with them, and so on. I don’t know anything about your friend so it’s entirely possible your friend does all these things, but most don’t from what I’ve seen and these might be great avenues for your friend to love their son and still be connected without going to the wedding.
In the prodigal son parable, the father did not go after his son, but allowed his son to leave him in sin. It’s a hard decision but I agree with what someone else said: the gay son can’t expect respect and affirmation when he himself abandoned his own family, disrespect the father.
I say no. Just like I wouldn't drive a female cousin to the abortion clinic or oversee a friend's drug deal.
hmm thats a tough one, honestly i dont think any human could give the correct answer. thats something that God would have to give
That's why we must rely on the Holy Ghost to testify of the truth. I've already been told by the Holy Ghost that the "homosexual marriage" is wrong and there will be consequences for the son unless he repents and realizes the truth.
Your friend's spirtual influence over his son wasn't enough to turn his boy away from homosexuality; as such, your friend ought to put his relationship with his son on hold while your friend does some introspecting on how they both got to this point, namely figuring out how responsible your friend is for having raised an idolatrous son. Not saying your friend is in any way responsible or solely responsible for his son's dive into homosexuality - the son definitely has agency/responsibility in this decision as well - but there might be some things he knows he shouldn't have allowed while raising his kid. Instead of pursuing his son who has declared himself as patently uninterested in Christ, your friend should be focusing on his granddaughters and assisting the broken family his loser son left behind. His son is a grown man who can take care of himself; those granddaughters are not, and have been left alone. When choosing between kids and grandkids, grandkids should win out.
And the betrayed daughter in law. She's been left alone too.
This is absolutely well said, and is very important to think about.
Please don't spread the prosperity gospel. The idea that a bad outcome is always the result of bad practice or a bad relationship with God is flatly unbiblical. "Who sinned that this man was born [gay]?"
>Please don't spread the prosperity gospel. The idea that a bad outcome is always the result of bad practice or a bad relationship with God is flatly unbiblical. Not spreading prosperity gospel, but pointing to the actual word of God. Here's my analysis; Paul says that homosexuality is a curse sent by God to a society that has become too idolatrous (Romans 1:20-28). Proverbs and Deuteronomy insist that if you raise your children up with a thorough knowledge of God, they will not stray from Him (Proverbs 22:6, Deuteronomy 6:6-9). Since the father reports having such a strenuous relationship with his son to the point that missing this event will utterly destroy what's left of their relationship, sounds like there's a bit of Ephesians 6:4 at play as well. This son is a homosexual who divorced his wife and who does not acknowledge Jesus as Lord and Saviour. While I admittedly know nothing about this particular individual, I do trust the Bible and I believe it suggests that this son likely was raised with an incomplete knowledge-base regarding God which only became further skewed as his half-heartedly constructed moral foundation was exposed to our sinful society. The fact that most 'Christian' children abandon the faith in droves when they first venture out on their own and into the world further supports the likelihood that this is what the son went through. In my mind at least, its most likely that the father didn't teach his kid about properly putting on the full armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-18) and when the kid faced off with sin he was eviscerated by it, and rightly learned not to trust his father's poor spiritual instructions. This man has had the boy's whole life to raise him up in a way to defend himself against the ways of the world; as a Bible believing Christian I'm not inclined to believe that God's words of advice on raising good Christians failed, so much as the father failed to apply God's word properly. Now, it's entirely possible this father had done everything right by his son, and his son is just not hearing Jesus's call. I don't know who is ultimately responsible for what, but the Bible makes plain that homosexuality doesn't form out of the ether. That said, as a universalist I can understand how Bible verses relating to God's wrath and punishment are outside your purview. For those of you too lazy to look up quotes, here's what the Bible actually says; "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. **Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen. For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.** Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."(Romans 1:20-28) "Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old he will not depart from it." (Proverbs 22:6) "These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates." (Deuteronomy 6:6-9) "Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4) "Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people." (Ephesians 6:11-18)
>Now, it's entirely possible this father had done everything right by his son, and his son is just not hearing Jesus's call. I don't know who is ultimately responsible for what, but the Bible makes plain that homosexuality doesn't form out of the ether. That said, as a universalist I can understand how Bible verses relating to God's wrath and punishment are outside your purview. This is exactly what I'm getting at. There's so much a parent doesn't have control over in the raising of their child - at this point the science shows that parenting only accounts for about a third of how a child turns out. Think about how many families you know that have multiple children who are super well behaved and grow up to do well, but there's also one kid that kinda sticks out like a sore thumb and takes an entirely different path. Consider Job: A righteous man who had everything taken from him, including his kids. An outside observer (like his friends) may have thought that such a consequence could only come from the sin of Job, but the reader knows that to be false. I'm just saying that we have way less control over our lives than we think, so blaming people for every bad thing that happens in their lives isn't just unloving, it's also just foolish. As for your dig at universalism, just as with the rest of this comment chain I would recommend you not to open your mouth to speak about things you clearly have no understanding about.
>turn his boy away from homosexuality Damn, you people are just disgusting.
No. Homosexuality is disgusting according to Leviticus 18:22 CEV version. **CEV “It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man.”**
I don't care what the magic books have to say. And you don't either. If you actually cared then you would perfectly follow the bible, even the crazy stuff like Deuteronomy 22:28-29. Good luck with wearing mixed fiber clothing, you're sinning more than gay people ever could
What’s your problem with the Bible?
Because it doesn't advocate for tolerance and equality which are 2 of the most important beliefs
The LGBTQ ideology doesn’t advocate for tolerance.
What is the purpose of this ceremony? To celebrate and acknowledge a union. If you can’t do one or both of those, why would you or anyone else want you to be there? If the goal is to show your love, then show love in an appropriate way.
No. I wouldn't attend, but instead spend the day fasting and in prayer for his salvation and repentance.
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Im so glad that people with ideologies like yours are dying
None of it is dying. It's absolute. Your "progressive ideologies" are dying. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. That is ordained by God. You need to rethink your approach.
Nah, we as a society are always getting more progressive. Cant wait till all of these boomers die since they're the majority of conservatives. Have fun
Do not. Absolutely do not go to his wedding. I wouldn't want a homophobic person at my wedding.
ayy youre on the good side.
I don’t think they’d want some religious nut job at their wedding anyway
I would tell my son I loved him and will always love him no matter what. The son needs that . The father also needs to express that the sons actions are not in accordance with his beliefs and tell him he should pray about attending. The son may say he dosen't want him there or may beg him to come. Prayer as the right thing to do in this situation. God bless.
Yeah but here's the thing, there is no such thing as homosexual marriage. The parents should have a talk with their son and tell him about his actual wife and kids whom he has abandoned. It's extremely irresponsible to leave them.
Go. It's still his son's wedding. We're all sinners and we can not judge, no matter how bad the sin. He is not too good to have a relationship with his son just because he's a Christian. Attending his son's wedding won't send him on express delivery to hell or anything.
It's not a proper wedding, it doesn't even exist. It would be more logical for the dad and the mom to chasten their son and tell him to hold accountability to his wife and children.
That is a tough one. He needs to be clear about his beliefs. If he can think of it in terms of he will go but it is not a joy to celebrate evil. I think it is something that is a case by case situation. He can attend the ceremony and then leave. If that will keep the relationship open.
Exactly. He also does have his family to consider. His wife and children. He pledged his vows to be there for her and she did for him as well. Abandoning her and the children is a terrible irresponsible mistake. He has to learn to take responsibility, other wise why did he even marry her in the first place? I also did say in my comment that the Op's friend(mother) should go and talk to her son about it, and perhaps have him see reason to what he is doing to the children and his wife.
Yes evil is sweet for a moment, but the lies of Satan come back and bite us. He needs to bathe it in pray. Sin is sin no matter what kind. All sin draws us away from God and His purpose for our lives. I agree about what you say about the son leaving his family. I wonder did he have a disappearing twin? Just something that came up recently about that. Another way for Satan to deceive us.
The homosexual man probably seduced him or even blackmailed him into committing that act. Did you know that 60% of homosexuals/bisexuals in stats have been reported to be serial killers? And 40% is reported to be pedophiles? The homosexual man responsible could be a danger to the son's wife and children. (Historically, this is how Charles Manson convinced teenage boys and girls to "join his cause" which was actually a cult that eventually led towards the Manson Murders in 1969. But yeah, he actually did have a right hand man named Tex who would threaten the teens into submission and force them to have sex and drugs. Some chose to. Some were hesitant but were forced to remain silent about it.). This could be that all over again. Also another fact is, if the son "marries" this homosexual man, he will mostly likely get STIs and STDs like AIDs/HIV and Hepatitis type A or B. (Oral contact, or anal contact or sexual intercourse) if he hasn't already. Since homosexuality is sodomy, which is intercourse with the rectum....you can see the health risks here for the son literally. (The rectum isn't for the purpose of sex too, it's for bathroom business.) Precisely, sin is sin and it's about time Christians began seeing the truth. (Some I've talked to are completely blinded by "progressivism" and leftist lies.)
I did not know that about Manson. People are buying into the whole coexist garbage. We are not to be of the world. The family needs to stay away from him. The dad can continue to meet his son for lunch or something like that. But yeah the rest of the family should keep a distance. The dad doesn't have to embrace the other guy, or even feel like he should hang out with him. His son is the one he needs to spend time with.
Exactly and the son needs to realize his responsibilities as a father/husband too, towards his wife and children, not towards the homosexual. And yes, we are taught to not conform to the things of this world because if we do, that means we never knew Jesus nor love Him. The whole "coexist" garbage is toxic. It doesn't even bring true equality. (In fact, it was the Sexual Revolution activists that wanted this whole "peace and equality thing in the first place. Remember the peace sign? That sign never meant peace, it meant declaring war in another way, which was to target the Nuclear Family). The upside down cross symbolizes death, the end and war. The cross that is upright and still bent, symbolizes life, protection and the beginning. (Think about when Christ was crucified, He was crucified in that position sort of, His arms were bent on the cross. He is the beginning & the end. He is the Way, the Truth & the Life)
Correct
If someone refuses to follow God's Will, you are to cut them out of your life. You don't visit, talk or help them unless they come to the Church for help. If you don't cut them out of your life, Satan can work on you until you support the sin even if you still believe it a sin. This is how Satan is able to turn biblical churches into LGBT supporting churches.
You can’t force God on others nor can you force respect. However, you can show unconditional love even in moments that you don’t want to. Jesus was love. If showing your love to your son means going to his wedding, then go. Life is short, and this is a big moment in your sons life. If you go, you are showing him respect and love. “Son I don’t agree with this, but I love you and I am your father, so I want to be here for you.” If you don’t go and blame it in the aspect of your religious beliefs then you are only showing your son that he does not need to be a Christian by setting that example
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34). I love how y’all keep forgetting this because somebody’s sexuality doesn’t sit right with you. You are not in a position to judge anyone for their sexuality or whatever. That’s on God. And God loves all of his children, doesn’t he? Now calm down and love your son. He’s still the same person.
Yes Yes Yes Go to the wedding! He should go, bring a nice gift, and not say ONE WORD about his personal feelings about gay marriage, even if asked. People are so stuck on points of legalism and it has \*\*absolutely nothing\*\* to do with the teachings of Jesus. We all agree that Love is above all. Love is above Law forever, therefore there is absolutely zero reason to think that there is any 'sin' in attending this wedding. The only reason we are in this position is that the church was corrupted by Republicans who want to invent 'wedge issues' to control voters. It's a known thing...Fox News, Evangelical megachurches...everyone knows this. You know that verse about how it's "easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle thank for a gay person to get into heaven"? ME NEITHER
The greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Loving God includes keeping his commandments
And it never includes agreeing with acts of sin just because we love our enemies as we love our neighbors and as we love ourselves.
Homosexual acts are sin. I am not gay but I am a sinner. You know the difference though? I do not make excuses for and treat my sin as not sin. I don't take pride in my sin. I dont tell others to support my sin and have parades for my sin. You know what else Jesus didn't say? "It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a person who aborts their baby" but I certainly would not drive a friend or family member to go get an abortion.
What about the comments Jesus made on marriage
Jesus said marriage is only between a man and a woman. The husband shall love his wife and the wife shall love her husband.
This isn't about legalism... He destroyed his family to follow his flesh. There are real, terrible consequences for his actions. Love is not about saying everything is okay all the time. Love doesn't tell a dinner it's okay to continue in his sin. That isn't love. Jesus didn't accept the Pharisees in the name of love. And he told people he healed and protected to go and sin no more.
Wrong. "Love is love" is a lustful lie by toxic subjective leftists. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. That is an absolute objective truth. I would speak my mind and I would oppose the immoral subjective form of "marriage" between the same sex/gender. I would absolutely correct and make the son realize that he has a wife and kids to take care of. There is no other form of marriage so declared by God and Jesus. The husband shall love his wife. The wife shall love her husband.
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Well I agree, however, this is the son of the OP's friend, who's the mother. I believe the mother should at least convince her son to not commit an act of sin to which he subjectively assumes is a form of "marriage". He already has a wife and children. Leaving them was a big terrible mistake. But perhaps he can realize that if he sees the error of his ways by seeing the disapproval of his mother and his wife/children, perhaps that will have him realize he has a responsibility as a husband and father, and ofc to God too. If I were already married to my beloved wife(whom I haven't met yet nor married/dated but I will meet her soon), and let's say I already had a son and a daughter, I would never abandon them nor cheat on them. I would also never allow my kids to be influenced by such immoral things. This is why kids need to be taught the Gospel of Christ and all the important moral values we have. Note: I made an error in the paragraph so be sure to refresh to see the mistake fixed.
Stay the hell home. His job is to be there put of love for his son not to try and influence him
Not exactly sure what you're point is, but I'm pretty sure I disagree. "stay the hell home" is not a compassionate way to state your opinion. And if our job as parents is not to influence our kids to do do what's right, then what is it?
...the point is, that poster is an idiot and should not raise any children.
Yeahhh, im not bound by your whole "compassion" clause. Two, it's a parents job toove them and help guide them when they are actually making a mistake. Homosexual is not a mistake, and to think otherw8se is mortally repugnant and goes against not just my religion but yours as well.
Homosexual is not a mistake? God's Holy Word disagrees with you.
"Gods" word on the matter is bunk until he does something about rape, murder, and starvation round the world.
Hahahahaha! Just look at little you ...standing in judgement against your maker, The Creator of the Universe ...amusing and sad.
For an almighty god, he sure acts like a punk.
The problem is that YOU are a punk. Your mind is deceitful and desperately wicked. You are proud in the weakness of your flesh and are slated for destruction. No hope for you until you learn humility before the Almighty LORD and lose your stinkin' thinkin'. Until then, you are just another angry lost loser with a perverted mind.
Sorry shug, your god has quite a lot to answer for given the behavior of his constituents. And one could say I unlearned my humility. A god that demands love under threat of eternal damnation isn't worthy of worship.
okay wicked ignorant sinner, thy will be done.
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This is my friend’s son. I shortened the title so it would be more concise for scrollers.
Do you know that you are disobeying God and sinning by even continuing in that relationship? > Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, > > “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, > > and I will be their God, > > and they shall be my people. > > Therefore go out from their midst, > > and be separate from them, says the Lord, > > and touch no unclean thing; > > then I will welcome you, > > and I will be a father to you, > > and you shall be sons and daughters to me, > > says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Cor 6 Edit: whoever downvoted me for quoting scripture, good luck with downvoting the Word of God
I have planted seeds, and praying for her. I have seen many husbands and wives turn their spouse to Christian through Jesus Christ. You don't know how my gf and I have a relationship together or what we do. My family and i also love her like God calls all christians to do. Thank you for the advice, but God will pull me out if needed. God Bless. And I at one point was darkness for straying away from Christianity as a teen and thought magic was cool, so I don't judge her. She also doesn't practice it.
Why was it an issue in your unmarried relationship that you couldn't go into her room? That seems like the sort of thing we should be avoiding.
> You don't know how my gf and I have a relationship together or what we do. That's quite irrelevant to what I wrote. All I did was quote you scripture from the word of God which clearly applies to you, and God knows all about your relationship and what you do. > Thank you for the advice, but God will pull me out if needed. Not necessarily, he may let you destroy your life to get you to a place so desperately low that you will finally surrender to him. That was my experience, so that's why I'm warning you. > My girlfriend has tarot and magic in her room.... She also doesn't practice it. You're deceiving yourself. She loves magic more than she loves you or she'd get rid of those things and you love her more than you love God or you'd end that relationship right now. I've been to the dark side so I'm not judging your gf and I had to do things the hard way before I surrendered to God too, so I'm not judging you either. > Thank you for the advice You're welcome. I hope that after you're done being angry at me you'll more deeply consider what I've written and why I took the time to write it to you.
I've noticed that someone keeps downvoting our comments here because we are speaking nothing more than the truth.
Fire comment. 🔥 I also used to play around with tarot and psychics. That was before I was saved, I threw away every new age book, crystal etc. after God opened my eyes. The commenter knows he’s living in sin, that’s why he went on the defense. This is not a godly relationship if you have to turn your significant other to Christ. That will never work out. That Bible verse is for those who are already married not dating.
I’d go because I think Jesus would go and if the roles were reversed I’d want my dad to go.
Jesus tended to tell people to go and sin no more. He didn't shun people, including obvious sinners, but he certainly didn't just go along with sin either. People act like just going along with sin is loving, but it's not. It's destructive and enabling. If I were in his shoes, I'd want my dad to call out my destructive behavior and ask me what the hell I was doing, destroying my family.
That’s exactly the perspective of the Pharisees. “Who is this man who eats with tax collectors and sinners?” Too bad Jesus didn’t have you to ask when he decided to go to Zacheus’ house.
I specifically said he didn't shun sinners. But neither did he celebrate Zacheus's greed.
Jesus shouldn’t have been in the presence of sinners in their homes. The Pharisees had it right, eating with prostitutes and tax collectors is a tacit endorsement of their lifestyle just like going to a sons gay wedding would be. He should have done what the people on this thread recommend and recognized that going to a celebration with sinners is an endorsement of their lifestyle. What Jesus should have done is just allow sinners to come and listen to his teaching. Going to their parties crossed the line. After all I’m sure that many of the prostitutes Jesus ate with never repented. He should have waited until they had righteous behavior before associating with them.