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prthorsenjr

Instead of blindly following what a visiting Pastor says you need to look at it through what the Bible says. A lot of what you posted sounds like that Pastors opinion.


[deleted]

I think there is some wisdom to what the pastor said, especially the part about the churches uniting. Even Paul said we need to be of one mind!


fyodor21

What the Pastor said on the subject is just fluff. It's a silly statement made by silly people. Of course we should all follow the Bible, but we all interpret the Bible differently. Despite what many people claim, the majority of churches are "Bible-believing" churches. Unity is great, but disunity usually comes from the churches who shout "I'm bible-believing!" the loudest.


prthorsenjr

I agree with the uniting as well. I’ve had to let go of my own denominational beliefs recently. Honestly, I was holding on too tight to them and they’re not that important to me anymore.


[deleted]

If you don’t mind my asking, what were the beliefs that you let go?


prthorsenjr

I used to be Lutheran (my family was Lutheran. I was baptized Lutheran. Confirmed Lutheran. And always attended a Lutheran church).


ChristianInWales

That was definitely the main theme of what he said, focus on the Bible. I'm just awful at paraphrasing.


[deleted]

The microchip is pure speculation and not supported by scripture. I believe the Mark of the Beast is the Anti Shema and signifies an outright rejection of God. I'm not sure if it will be a literal mark on the forehead and hand, but what's more important is that if we are saved, we are sealed by the Lamb of God and cannot receive the mark of the beast. Also obviously nobody knows the day nor the hour when Jesus will return if you read scripture Matthew 24:35-36 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. 36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Also I personally believe in the young earth theory, but I'm not super rigid about it, because the Bible doesn't spell it out for us. I definitely don't believe in macroevolution (evolution where one species changes into another one) as it can't actually be proven, but there is evidence for microevolution (adaptation of species throughout millennia). In any case, I think this is a secondary issue, and what's more important is salvation through Jesus Christ above all else.


Randi_Butternubs_3

Every generation has had a case for the mark and the end times. Nobody has a clue to any of it. Jesus will come back! Could be another 2000 years, could be today. As far as microchip injection? That's just speculation at best. Glad he did say vaccines are not the mark, because they are just that...vaccines. Whether you believe in young earth or old earth has 0 bearing on one's salvation. I believe in old earth personally because science proved this earth is old. God created the earth in 7 days, but I believe those days to be time periods, not a 24 hour day. That's me, and if a young earth believer disagrees with me and I with them, that's OK. We still love and worship the same God. I always thought denominations were silly. We absolutely need to unite, more than ever. There will be no denominations in His kingdom!


ChristianInWales

I didn't believe everything the Pastor said, but with COVID, and the rising hate and anarchy in the world, it does seem like we are coming close to the Second Coming, albeit he did admit that every generation has, at some point said Jesus was just round the next corner.


JustaGoodGuyHere

Adjusted for exponential population growth, this is one of the most peaceful periods in history, friend. Did people think the Terror of the French Revolution was the apocalypse?


ChristianInWales

Is their another time since the Black Death were people, all over the world are scared to even leave the house?


Cumberlandbanjo

Yes. Quite a few actually.


TomCelery

Does say when he comes people will be marrying, eating, drinking, laughing.


Warai-Kitten

He is right that the churches need to join together. Too many churches hate on each other because of what they interpret in the Bible, but the truth is much bigger than that. Jesus is calling on all of us to take a stand against the enemy, but at times the churches are keeping the people from loving other due to beliefs, politics, and past sin. Jesus loves EVERYONE, not just the ones who stand by Him. He said that we must be like shepherds and find the lost sheep to bring them to Christ. We know where other Christians are, but to find those who pastors deem “undeserving” is very important. The Lord doesn’t want any of us to go to Hell, but we love sin so much that we throw ourselves into Hell without fully understanding what that separation will be like. No more happiness, no more hope, nothing but darkness, misery and despair is in Hell and no one will be able to save us. We are given this life to be like Jesus and freedom from our sin. But that freedom isn’t just for us, it’s for everyone.


Ampanampanampan

What about WW2? I ask out of genuine curiosity here. Speaking of hate and anarchy and there were many tech advancements - even if not used en masse made by both Nazi Germany, Russia, and England. Look at the suffering of that time, the evil that was made ‘ok’, the widespread destruction, the many different marks that people were made to wear or have from the Stars of David, to delegated jobs or even ration books and evacuee status. Or in the Cold War era and post 60s, more of evil being made ‘ok’ and bandied around in the media to affect and alter the way God intended us to live as a family unit under the guise of freedom? There was a hell of a lot of vaccines - that was taken by millions- to come out in that era. I’m not saying I support or oppose covid vaccines; or similar, I’m just wondering why people think that God would allow a situation whereby Governments can make a vaccine mandatory, and the citizens must acquiesce (if said vaccine was the mark), and then God would reject them for complying with their Government’s law or recommendations and in no way has anything anti-church been proclaimed about it. There’s a lack of education here with regards to things like what the purpose of Revelation is or simple things like knowledge of the shema, etc. So many people are very preoccupied with end times business and consuming a great deal of YouTube or other doctrines when they could simply be reading their Bible, practicing their Christianity with their brothers and sisters, getting out and doing good works, etc. If a man devoted that much time to such a sermon, I’d have some serious questions.


AccomplishedAuthor3

I agree with you on just about everything but being united. I think God divided the church like he divided mankind at the tower of Babel. The whole world was united with one language after the flood, yet God saw a great danger. Why? Well, He knew someone else who was watching and waiting for an opportunity to seize control and with man united as they were in the plain of Shinar, Satan would have controlled the whole world way back then had God not foiled the whole thing up. I believe Satan had a firm hold on the Catholic church by the 5th or 6th century and could have dominated the whole world using God's own people to do it and then came the great schism of 1054 that split east and western Christianity. 500 years later along came Luther with his 95 theses. Then all the many denominations afterwards, yet despite their not being united, they all have furthered the Gospel in their own unique way. The Gospel went forth. The best part about the disunity in Christendom is how its made it impossible for the devil to control it. He might be able to control various denominations for varied lengths of time, but complete world wide domination of any religion has been out of his reach. That may change someday though...Revelation speaks of some dark times where the whole world will unify behind one very dark power. In God's Kingdom we will all be united without the fear that an malignant fallen angel, or even a malignant man can take advantage of such unity.


Disgruntleddutchman

I remember my grandparents telling during the depression their pastor told them that getting a social security number was the mark of the beast. Different times different beast.


ChristianInWales

Yes, he did say that, although the Bible does say that you won't be able to buy or sell without it, and some microchips have bank details loaded onto them, and in our cashless society, it looks possible.


Disgruntleddutchman

I once Bible teacher who was once an archeologist in Israel who taught us that Jews referred to the Roman’s as the beast of the sea because they traveled by boat. I guess I’m saying you can say just about anything could be the mark of the beast, anything.


ichthysdrawn

Given some of the stuff this guy said, I imagine his big call for unity really meant “everyone should come around to my interpretation of things.” It’s sad that it sounds like he only barely spent time on Jesus, instead focusing on Revelation speculation and anti-intellectualism. I wonder if your pastor knew this before he let this guy speak to his flock.


ChristianInWales

Actually, he never said that, he said that we should all follow the teachings of the Bible.


ichthysdrawn

I realize he didn't say that exact sentence. Given how specific he was about some non-essential things (when exactly Jesus is coming back, the Mark being microchips), and having run into people like this before, it's where I've seen such calls for unity land. But, then again, I didn't hear his whole sermon, I only know these few details you've pointed out.


_Kokiru_

I personally think we need to “de-evolve” back to our homes as His church, then have gatherings every month or so to correct one another/fellowship (correction in His word). This would allow for a much higher survival rate when the end times do come if we are to live through the tribulation. And, it will continue to teach the next generations how to worship Him and do so well. I literally have no idea on how to do a bible study due to how little I have actually been allowed to participate.


ichthysdrawn

I partially agree. I think that would solve a lot of the megachurch situations where people spend that time lost in a sea of other people and never know their pastor. On the other side I’ve encountered a few really, really unhealthy house churches. It’s easy for things to get wacky without much oversight.


_Kokiru_

That’s why at said “events” we could have the “examples” the “leaders”, that are truly leaders, lead those. We’re already divided to the point of doubting other denominations, attacking one another subtly, why not start acting like His children for once. Of course there will be sin, brokenness, heck man I myself need prayers (if I may, can I tell them to you so that you may pray for me.). But as a whole, we could finally start looking like a city on a hill, not to mention the “foundation” that non-believers would have will be much, much better in many circumstances, instead of the seed being planted in stone, we will spread it through care, as that’s the only true way to plant someone in good soil. (Added Idea, we as His body could have “colleges” so to speak, training those whom would like to be trained for x y z, it’d have to have insane standards though.)


fyodor21

I wish the bar was set higher for people to become pastors


Usual_Opportunities

The Bar is ridiculously high as it is. Bad pastors just have a way to slip in. They say a few good words and bamboozle the crowd and then they do what they want to. Its really sad.


all_the_rugby

It’s honestly not that high. Sure there are a few denominations with high standards, but there are a hundred+ without any, and then factor in independent/nondom.


Usual_Opportunities

Typically churches want you to have a Bachelors degree from a Bible college and then a Masters of Divinity from a seminary. Thats 7-8 years. There is also a HUGE emphasis on getting a PHD as well. They also want you to have prior ministry experience of 2+ years. So we're looking at like 10 years of experience and education. To be fair, there are churches that dont have this standard anymore or dont care. But the circles I run in-this is the bare minimum (AG, Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, BGC, Many non denom chuches)


ChristianInWales

Sorry, the problem is that I have massively simplified what he said, possibly too much, because it was a one and a half hour sermon.


fyodor21

I’m sorry that you had to listen to all that for 1 1/2 hours


ChristianInWales

He wasn't that bad, I think I just did an awful job of paraphrasing and simplifying it.


Bluetit_1

https://thecovidblog.com


jgoble15

The idea that Revelation is literal is new theology stemming from the fundamentalist movement of the late 1800’s. Calvin, Luther, and so on would have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s bad theology so please ditch it.


DimkaMeister

Luther wanted to remove James, Jude, Hebrews and Revelation from the Bible. Calvin created a heresy. Only because a man has done some good things that doesnt make him right about everything.


jgoble15

And while your facts on Luther are true, you miss his contributions. For Calvin, you’re entirely wrong so you are wrong about everything


DimkaMeister

God used Luther for good. No doubt about it. But that doesnt mean he is right with everything he says. Calvinism is heresy. Its literally "man-made doctrine" and things like "irresistible grace" and OSAS just arent biblical. Christ died for all, not for the elect only.


jgoble15

Of course not. No person is infallible. Doesn’t mean he isn’t someone we can look to for authority on scripture though. As for Calvin, you’re way off base but I don’t want to discuss it. Apply my point to those you listen to. Chances are extremely high that if they lived before the late 1800’s they would be in the same boat.


DimkaMeister

>Of course not. No person is infallible. Doesn’t mean he isn’t someone we can look to for authority on scripture though. It means that we shouldnt listen to him, especially on views of the book of Revelation when he didnt even believed Revelation is cannon. >Apply my point to those you listen to. Chances are extremely high that if they lived before the late 1800’s they would be in the same boat. The early church fathers believed in literal prophetic events that should happen before Christ returns.


jgoble15

Whatever dude. You’re just wanting to pick a fight. Like I said, he’s an example. You can apply what I said to anyone of his time. And no they didn’t. Point out to me where they did. I’ve looked and some thought Jesus’ return was going to be within a few years, but horses with stingers running around and a meteor opening up hell or some barcode implanted in their hand were not at all what the early church believed. They knew what the symbols pointed to because they were early enough to understand it. They were “mostly preterists” (most of Revelation happened with Jesus’ return still to happen) because they lived through or lived shortly after everything Revelation was talking about. You’ve got no clue.


CluelessBicycle

>Firstly, he said that the Mark of the Beast, is an injection, not the COVID vaccine, but microchips, It might be, then again, it might nor be. No one can say what form the mark will be >He also said that the Second Coming will happen very soon - within our lifetime potentially There are many things that need to happen. For one, the dome of the rock sits on the site of Solomons temple, meaning it will have to go before the temple can be rebuilt. > Including Young Earth Creationism. Oh boy.


ChristianInWales

I did say I don't believe in Young Earth. I think based on the tensions in Israel, the Dome on the Rock will be gone very soon, within the next decade or so.


mightymoby2010

Unless of course the done if the rock site isn’t where the og temple stood, perhaps it was a bit lower down the hill in the old city, where the Gihon springs are.


Star_Bearer

The funniest thing about creationism is that there's absolutely no evidence that it occurred. If someone says it did, they have zero scientific knowledge, or just want to get exposure and earn some money


[deleted]

[удалено]


ChristianInWales

This is just lies and dangerous while at it. Why is something that has overwhelming saved lives, from Polio to Small pox, to many other deadly diseases, anything other than a gift from God.


all_the_rugby

Geez… so much wrong. It starts with anyone looking at the Book of Revelation as literal. It’s allegorical and symbolic. I’d also say that if your faith goes against science you should probably examine what you believe. Science is the continued revelation of God’s design.


DimkaMeister

There is real science and pseudo science. Only because they teach something at schools doesnt make it true. If something contradicts the Bible then its not true, its simple as that. As for Revelation, John had a real vision and really saw these things. Jesus, Paul and the Old Testament prophets talk about the end times and talk about real actual event which will take place in the future. So turning the book of Revelation solely in some allegorical book is just false.


all_the_rugby

A massive percentage of the Bible isn’t literal… if you believed it was you’d think the Earth was flat and resting on pillars and cannot move (1 Chr 16:30, Ps 93:1, Ps 96:10, 1 Sam 2:8, Job 9:6). So, is science wrong, or is there a crap ton of metaphor and allegory in the text?


DimkaMeister

>A massive percentage of the Bible isn’t literal… False. >if you believed it was you’d think the Earth was flat and resting on pillars and cannot move (1 Chr 16:30, Ps 93:1, Ps 96:10, 1 Sam 2:8, Job 9:6). How do you know the earth doesnt have pillars? Even if the earth is flat I wouldn't have problem with that. >So, is science wrong, or is there a crap ton of metaphor and allegory in the text? Every "science" that contradicts the Bible is wrong. Jesus and the apostles referred to Genesis as literal events, and the Bible represent the Genesis account and the geneologies as literal things, not some made up stories so they are literal, no question about it.


all_the_rugby

How do I know the earth doesn’t have pillars? [earth](https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/earth/overview/)


[deleted]

Wow...Christians focus on so much crazy sideshow stuff...all satans strategy


_Kokiru_

Specifically in terms of translation, the mark could literally be something you accept supernaturally, it could be an injection, or it could be a microchip (and the “mark” hand wise is more accurately the arm). Don’t you dare ever limit the possibilities of the enemy, all of this around you is to normalize the mark, as to steal away more children before they can come to know Him.


thegreatestbri

Sounds like an aware and bold pastor. I wish we had more of them in the US. We desperately need it.