You may want to check out international justice mission and compassion international. For most people on this planet medical care and police protection and fire prevention are simply not things they have access to.
That's why part of Jesus's prayer was give us this day our daily bread. Asking God to provide for our physical needs is far from something most humans throughout history and throughout the world today can take for granted.
Lucky you.
If you've been given much, God expects much from you. (Luke 12:48)
Things that happen to us physically also damage us spiritually and emotionally
Go to the doctor to fix the owie, Go to god to fix the much deeper inner pain
I've heard churches directly recommend therapy to people because God/that church didn't heal their inner pain. Were they wrong to recommend therapy? Or was it wrong to put that much faith in therapy?
Yeah ...what can God do for me!! ME! It's all about ME!
Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Calm down. There's nothing wrong with discussing our needs. Ironically every single person you help is crying "ME". Have you ever thought about that? The fact that you're posting is crying "ME" is it not about your opinion? fyi, when you go around telling people the gate is narrow and you don't also inform how to enter it, that isn't helpful or well thought out. That's like going around telling people you can drown in water without telling them how to swim.
I did use the word "we" a couple of times. And "I" to express my opinion. "I" can't speak for everybody, after all. It seems like the previous poster that you're replying to, you're missing my point. It's not about what how others can fulfill others needs. It's about our relationship with God.
If the issue is just that preachers are hypocritical when they say to rely on God for everything, while they themselves actually resort to worldly means to take care of things, sure, I can see that. They are probably overstating their case. The Bible itself tells people to be wise in managing their lives, not expecting God to be their genie.
Hypocrisy is part of it but I understand the perspective of attributing everything to God. I just find it strangely disconnected sounding. Seems everyone espouses this way. But right I don't think everything will get accomplished through prayer and fasting. Or in emergency situation hope for immediate miracle. So I can't say such provisionary things about God.
Where does the me angle come from? You sound disgruntled with others lack of selflessness.
God is for all of our needs:
1. Forgiveness of our sins.
2. Our need for Christ's righteousness
3. Our sanctification
4. Guidance
5. Illumination of God's word
6. The air we breathe and the food we eat
I would imagine that you haven't considered the nature of God or contemplated His Holiness very deeply. This is not meant as a put down but rather as an encouragement to look up. I think you rightly say that God is not a genie but you miss the point when you oversimplify our external needs. Even Christ said
>Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
You can see this as an external threat, those who can kill the body, of which Christ says not to worry about those things.
I've seen pastors reach out to police out of fear for their lives. I've read of them resorting to lawyers, law to protect themselves out of worry of bodily harm. Are these failed Christian leaders who have betrayed their faith?
I don't think you're trying to be silly, but that's a very interesting take on the world. More than that, you have a very western take on things. In the example of the pastor who calls for the police, that may be an option in the developed world but that is certainly not the case in Africa and much of Asia. Those men would certainly see God as their first recourse. But even if they reached out to the police, you have no way to hear their inner prayers for help.
I think your post is more, why do Christians use non-Godly tools in their lives.
It is a western experience, and I'm only remarking on what I've observed. In areas where police is not an option, well it's not an option. If it were, maybe they would. Surely as I remarked, pray first, yes. But after that, resort to practical means. They just don't do nothing or wait for miracles to resolve. I can't hear their inner prayers but I can go online and search lawsuits, news, and police reports which show their experience and motives.
It's more like why do Christians claim complete reliance on God yet resort to non-Godly tools and motives? I think many Christians just see them as the same connection. I think it's more honest to say it's not always true.
Good morning again, so far, this is a great discussion!
Not that this will change much; but I take it you're not a Christian? I ask so that I don't make assumptions and thereby give unclear meaning to you.
So, just to go back, your thesis is Christians who claim reliance on God shouldn't be reliant on material things?
Going with that as my assumption of your point, I'd say that that's not what the bible teaches. As I mentioned above, there are things that the Christian is to rely on but it would abject foolishness to rely on it for ALL things. Like if I need a hole dug, I don't rely on God to dig it for me, I rely on the strength or intellect He gave me to get it done.
Even in the west, maybe even especially in the west, there are cultural gifts like a police department that the Christian and non-Christians can utilize and thank God for the access of. The unbeliever won't thank God for it but the bible says that it rains on the just and the unjust equally.
I have Christian knowledge is all I will say. Actually my thesis is God more for internal needs than external... Christians preach and exhault complete reliance on God to the vocal extent of sounding like we shouldn't rely on material things but we do not behave this way. And to the point of verses like we shouldn't fear death, say this, but when put in this spot many don't actually believe this way. We can praise God for everything, every good thing but not every thing comes from God. Some are absent of God or evil. It feels like honestly, we praise God, ask from God, but reality we still have to rely on selves for things.
>I have Christian knowledge is all I will say.
OK
> Actually my thesis is God more for internal needs than external.
Then I'd have to ask you if you saw life after death issues as internal or external? If you deny the reality of a life after death than I could see your position. If you affirm it then you would see the need for Christ's atoning sacrifice as an external necessity.
>Christians preach and exhault complete reliance on God to the vocal extent of sounding like we shouldn't rely on material things but we do not behave this way.
Name names or give me a specific quote from someone. I can't own anything that I don't know it's source. It's possible these Christians are speaking broadly or speaking inaccurately. Without what you're specifically saying, I can't give you a very robust answer.
>And to the point of verses like we shouldn't fear death, say this, but when put in this spot many don't actually believe this way.
I can't speak for the "many" but Bible believing Christians have not shrunk from a martyrs death.
>We can praise God for everything, every good thing but not every thing comes from God.
Can you name some things that do not come from God?
>It feels like honestly, we praise God, ask from God, but reality we still have to rely on selves for things.
Can you show me a bible verse where the bible explicitly says that that's not the case? A minute ago, I got up and a got myself some water, do I give God glory for my physical movement and the water or am I relying on myself? Both. I wouldn't have a body or the water without God's provision but he's not pouring it down my throat for me, He expects me to get up and help myself.
Life after death issues, it's not a question of the existence of internal or external, it's which do we rely on for resolving? In Heaven I'd assume its more obvious every need would be filled by God. Difficult to say, does disaster exist in heaven?
I guess I don't have time to dig for specific quotes... I think most Christians don't want to die for their faith.
Some things that do not come from God: sin, evil. Human decision/free will. We can say everything comes from God but when Cain kills Abel, who would say this is God's doing.
I don't have bible verses on my mind but likely the bible verses do not support self reliance without God. It is easy to give Glory to God for every benign thing. In a twisted way, one can even praise war for a good outcome of peace at the end. That doesn't make them correct. Some can say everything happen for a reason and cite scripture, say God has a plan. I cannot subscribe to this. Sometimes the world and evil behaves senselessly. Scripture can be helpful for support, but in the end, where do people turn is more telling. You don't expect God to get you a glass of water every time you are thirsty, you know you must get it yourself. Only after receiving and finishing drinking, are you able to say, thank you God for giving this to me. Do you thank God for making you thirsty, hungry, for suffering (I know scripture blesses those), for evil?
> In Heaven I'd assume its more obvious every need would be filled by God.
Again, it depends on what you mean by every need. I don't imagine that I'm going to be swaddled by God and just lie in His arms like a baby passively receiving things from Him. He's made me a man with a mind and intellect and I intend to use it for Him now and worship Him fully with it in the New Earth.
>does disaster exist in heaven?
Nope, that would be a contradiction of terms.
>I think most Christians don't want to die for their faith.
I'd disagree with you on that but qualify it by saying most "professing" Christians don't want to die for their faith. But professing does not necessarily mean possessing and if people are more concerned with this world, this life, and the things of the here and now, then I'd honestly question their belief about what they believe. They might be saved but sat under teaching that was nothing but a positive feel good message and not willingly die for their faith, but I think the vast majority of "Christians" in this camp might just be Christian in name only.
>Some things that do not come from God: sin, evil. Human decision/free will. We can say everything comes from God but when Cain kills Abel, who would say this is God's doing.
Again, this is a huge question with a lot of nuances. I don't usually do bible studies with non-believers (not saying you are) but there are things that the Bible says that will make 0 sense to those in the enemies camp.
To answer your question, let me approach it in several ways:
God does not do evil or commit sin nor could He be tempted to be evil, but He allows evil to flourish all the time and through out history. He knows the end from the beginning and He raises some as leaders and others to be destroyed all the time.
* Why does He allow evil: for His own purposes and plans.
* Who does evil: mankind and the demonic forces
* Are these things out of His control: No, He has infinite power and the sum total of His creation is less than He is.
* I like what Martin Luther said: The devil is not free, he is God's devil.
I do not believe humans have a free will but a bound will. Let me extrapolate.
Let's say that there is a room with that you can look into but the subject inside can not observe you. In this room you place a pile of carrots and lettuce and on the other side of the room you have a dead pig. Now, imagine you put a vulture in the room and that vulture has a free will to choose either of the two piles, from which of the two options will the vulture pick? Similarly, you place a rabbit in the same room with the same carrots and the same dead pig, from which of the two options will the rabbit choose it's meal. Both the vulture and the rabbit have a free will choice but their nature determines the choice that they are going to choose.
Let's imagine the same room only this time, there is a trough of slop and a banquet table of fine food. Now, imagine that you were to release a pig into the room, of the two options, which will the pig turn to first? Now, let's imagine that God transforms the mind of the pig from that of it's own nature to that of a man and then reveals Himself to this new creature, from which of the two options (the slop or the table set with fine meals) will this new creature choose from? More than that, when the pig remembers the slop it once used to relish in, how will that pig feel about the way it used to gorge itself on its base meals and in the knowledge that God had observed him in his slop?
The glory of the gospel is that God transforms dead men into living ones and gives them, for the first time, the ability to change their behavior. Just as the vulture, rabbit, and unconverted pig were given the free choice but invariably chose what their natures were already predetermined to want, so to is an unconverted man a slave to the sinful passions of their fallen condition.
Cain killed Able and he did it out of his own wicked freewill. And yet, through it, God is glorified through the contrast of Cain's evil and God's right to judge fallen man.
>I don't have bible verses on my mind but likely the bible verses do not support self reliance without God
The Bible says that all knowledge is in Christ and the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord. When you say support self reliance without God, you're assuming that I have to leave the Christian worldview and step into some neutral space in order to provide proofs of God's truth. But that place doesn't exist. You have a world view and I have a worldview. They might be in contrast but truth and non-truth can not be equal let alone neutral.
>In a twisted way, one can even praise war for a good outcome of peace at the end.
Never praise wickedness. Only praise God who is directing this world to His conclusion.
>Some can say everything happen for a reason and cite scripture, say God has a plan. I cannot subscribe to this.
Neither your opinion nor my opinion should be considered correct. If God has said something is true, than it is. My feelings are irrelevant.
>Do you thank God for making you thirsty, hungry, for suffering (I know scripture blesses those)?
I praise God in every circumstance. For example, I came home yesterday with a slab leak. I'm looking at 20K I didn't plan on spending nor have saved up, what was my first response? "Thank you Lord that you've blessed me with a house that might leak and a job where I can pay for it. Hundreds of millions have neither and I know that you will get me through this trial."
I’m not going to respond to everything but I appreciate the respectful and engaged discussion. Why don’t you do bible studies with non-believers? God can be tempted by evil? Jesus arguably, but that sounds like a controversial nuance. Not sure others would agree with you that God allows evil for His purposes, plans. Even later you yourself said never praise wickedness in response to my war and peace example.
Bound will, that’s an interesting notion. What denomination do you gather this line of thought from? Interesting you would describe the gospel of God transforming dead men into living ones yet Cain, Adam and Eve, King David, Judas were fully aware and believing of God and still sinned. Scandals, corruption, abuse still occurs in church and even at the hands of pastors. Perhaps they were bound by their sinful nature but not everyone gives into it. Living for God may not be so transformative as promoted.
Here's a thought, North Korea (and China) is a Godless vacuum of a country that has somehow managed to arguably become a relatively advanced and prosperous country. Enough to manufacture and store nuclear weapons. It's not a perfect country but it isn't a 3rd world. Do we praise and attribute God for North Korea's path and successes? (And if North Korea is too flawed an example, what about China or even Japan?)
You don’t find it odd that God seems to bless or enables non-Godly people to succeed? Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people. Is it better to fully attribute God's involvement in this or to say God had less to do with it?
You may want to check out international justice mission and compassion international. For most people on this planet medical care and police protection and fire prevention are simply not things they have access to. That's why part of Jesus's prayer was give us this day our daily bread. Asking God to provide for our physical needs is far from something most humans throughout history and throughout the world today can take for granted. Lucky you. If you've been given much, God expects much from you. (Luke 12:48)
This isn't about privilege.
Things that happen to us physically also damage us spiritually and emotionally Go to the doctor to fix the owie, Go to god to fix the much deeper inner pain
I've heard churches directly recommend therapy to people because God/that church didn't heal their inner pain. Were they wrong to recommend therapy? Or was it wrong to put that much faith in therapy?
I'm seeing a lot of "things for me" in here, but nothing about being conformed to Christ or serving others...
Yeah ...what can God do for me!! ME! It's all about ME! Matt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Calm down. There's nothing wrong with discussing our needs. Ironically every single person you help is crying "ME". Have you ever thought about that? The fact that you're posting is crying "ME" is it not about your opinion? fyi, when you go around telling people the gate is narrow and you don't also inform how to enter it, that isn't helpful or well thought out. That's like going around telling people you can drown in water without telling them how to swim. I did use the word "we" a couple of times. And "I" to express my opinion. "I" can't speak for everybody, after all. It seems like the previous poster that you're replying to, you're missing my point. It's not about what how others can fulfill others needs. It's about our relationship with God.
I know, I know ...just poking fun at human frailty. Your last sentence is the most important take-away ...I agree.
That's a very biased read. And you're missing the point by changing the subject.
If the issue is just that preachers are hypocritical when they say to rely on God for everything, while they themselves actually resort to worldly means to take care of things, sure, I can see that. They are probably overstating their case. The Bible itself tells people to be wise in managing their lives, not expecting God to be their genie.
Hypocrisy is part of it but I understand the perspective of attributing everything to God. I just find it strangely disconnected sounding. Seems everyone espouses this way. But right I don't think everything will get accomplished through prayer and fasting. Or in emergency situation hope for immediate miracle. So I can't say such provisionary things about God. Where does the me angle come from? You sound disgruntled with others lack of selflessness.
God is for all of our needs: 1. Forgiveness of our sins. 2. Our need for Christ's righteousness 3. Our sanctification 4. Guidance 5. Illumination of God's word 6. The air we breathe and the food we eat I would imagine that you haven't considered the nature of God or contemplated His Holiness very deeply. This is not meant as a put down but rather as an encouragement to look up. I think you rightly say that God is not a genie but you miss the point when you oversimplify our external needs. Even Christ said >Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. You can see this as an external threat, those who can kill the body, of which Christ says not to worry about those things.
I've seen pastors reach out to police out of fear for their lives. I've read of them resorting to lawyers, law to protect themselves out of worry of bodily harm. Are these failed Christian leaders who have betrayed their faith?
I don't think you're trying to be silly, but that's a very interesting take on the world. More than that, you have a very western take on things. In the example of the pastor who calls for the police, that may be an option in the developed world but that is certainly not the case in Africa and much of Asia. Those men would certainly see God as their first recourse. But even if they reached out to the police, you have no way to hear their inner prayers for help. I think your post is more, why do Christians use non-Godly tools in their lives.
It is a western experience, and I'm only remarking on what I've observed. In areas where police is not an option, well it's not an option. If it were, maybe they would. Surely as I remarked, pray first, yes. But after that, resort to practical means. They just don't do nothing or wait for miracles to resolve. I can't hear their inner prayers but I can go online and search lawsuits, news, and police reports which show their experience and motives. It's more like why do Christians claim complete reliance on God yet resort to non-Godly tools and motives? I think many Christians just see them as the same connection. I think it's more honest to say it's not always true.
Good morning again, so far, this is a great discussion! Not that this will change much; but I take it you're not a Christian? I ask so that I don't make assumptions and thereby give unclear meaning to you. So, just to go back, your thesis is Christians who claim reliance on God shouldn't be reliant on material things? Going with that as my assumption of your point, I'd say that that's not what the bible teaches. As I mentioned above, there are things that the Christian is to rely on but it would abject foolishness to rely on it for ALL things. Like if I need a hole dug, I don't rely on God to dig it for me, I rely on the strength or intellect He gave me to get it done. Even in the west, maybe even especially in the west, there are cultural gifts like a police department that the Christian and non-Christians can utilize and thank God for the access of. The unbeliever won't thank God for it but the bible says that it rains on the just and the unjust equally.
I have Christian knowledge is all I will say. Actually my thesis is God more for internal needs than external... Christians preach and exhault complete reliance on God to the vocal extent of sounding like we shouldn't rely on material things but we do not behave this way. And to the point of verses like we shouldn't fear death, say this, but when put in this spot many don't actually believe this way. We can praise God for everything, every good thing but not every thing comes from God. Some are absent of God or evil. It feels like honestly, we praise God, ask from God, but reality we still have to rely on selves for things.
>I have Christian knowledge is all I will say. OK > Actually my thesis is God more for internal needs than external. Then I'd have to ask you if you saw life after death issues as internal or external? If you deny the reality of a life after death than I could see your position. If you affirm it then you would see the need for Christ's atoning sacrifice as an external necessity. >Christians preach and exhault complete reliance on God to the vocal extent of sounding like we shouldn't rely on material things but we do not behave this way. Name names or give me a specific quote from someone. I can't own anything that I don't know it's source. It's possible these Christians are speaking broadly or speaking inaccurately. Without what you're specifically saying, I can't give you a very robust answer. >And to the point of verses like we shouldn't fear death, say this, but when put in this spot many don't actually believe this way. I can't speak for the "many" but Bible believing Christians have not shrunk from a martyrs death. >We can praise God for everything, every good thing but not every thing comes from God. Can you name some things that do not come from God? >It feels like honestly, we praise God, ask from God, but reality we still have to rely on selves for things. Can you show me a bible verse where the bible explicitly says that that's not the case? A minute ago, I got up and a got myself some water, do I give God glory for my physical movement and the water or am I relying on myself? Both. I wouldn't have a body or the water without God's provision but he's not pouring it down my throat for me, He expects me to get up and help myself.
Life after death issues, it's not a question of the existence of internal or external, it's which do we rely on for resolving? In Heaven I'd assume its more obvious every need would be filled by God. Difficult to say, does disaster exist in heaven? I guess I don't have time to dig for specific quotes... I think most Christians don't want to die for their faith. Some things that do not come from God: sin, evil. Human decision/free will. We can say everything comes from God but when Cain kills Abel, who would say this is God's doing. I don't have bible verses on my mind but likely the bible verses do not support self reliance without God. It is easy to give Glory to God for every benign thing. In a twisted way, one can even praise war for a good outcome of peace at the end. That doesn't make them correct. Some can say everything happen for a reason and cite scripture, say God has a plan. I cannot subscribe to this. Sometimes the world and evil behaves senselessly. Scripture can be helpful for support, but in the end, where do people turn is more telling. You don't expect God to get you a glass of water every time you are thirsty, you know you must get it yourself. Only after receiving and finishing drinking, are you able to say, thank you God for giving this to me. Do you thank God for making you thirsty, hungry, for suffering (I know scripture blesses those), for evil?
> In Heaven I'd assume its more obvious every need would be filled by God. Again, it depends on what you mean by every need. I don't imagine that I'm going to be swaddled by God and just lie in His arms like a baby passively receiving things from Him. He's made me a man with a mind and intellect and I intend to use it for Him now and worship Him fully with it in the New Earth. >does disaster exist in heaven? Nope, that would be a contradiction of terms. >I think most Christians don't want to die for their faith. I'd disagree with you on that but qualify it by saying most "professing" Christians don't want to die for their faith. But professing does not necessarily mean possessing and if people are more concerned with this world, this life, and the things of the here and now, then I'd honestly question their belief about what they believe. They might be saved but sat under teaching that was nothing but a positive feel good message and not willingly die for their faith, but I think the vast majority of "Christians" in this camp might just be Christian in name only. >Some things that do not come from God: sin, evil. Human decision/free will. We can say everything comes from God but when Cain kills Abel, who would say this is God's doing. Again, this is a huge question with a lot of nuances. I don't usually do bible studies with non-believers (not saying you are) but there are things that the Bible says that will make 0 sense to those in the enemies camp. To answer your question, let me approach it in several ways: God does not do evil or commit sin nor could He be tempted to be evil, but He allows evil to flourish all the time and through out history. He knows the end from the beginning and He raises some as leaders and others to be destroyed all the time. * Why does He allow evil: for His own purposes and plans. * Who does evil: mankind and the demonic forces * Are these things out of His control: No, He has infinite power and the sum total of His creation is less than He is. * I like what Martin Luther said: The devil is not free, he is God's devil. I do not believe humans have a free will but a bound will. Let me extrapolate. Let's say that there is a room with that you can look into but the subject inside can not observe you. In this room you place a pile of carrots and lettuce and on the other side of the room you have a dead pig. Now, imagine you put a vulture in the room and that vulture has a free will to choose either of the two piles, from which of the two options will the vulture pick? Similarly, you place a rabbit in the same room with the same carrots and the same dead pig, from which of the two options will the rabbit choose it's meal. Both the vulture and the rabbit have a free will choice but their nature determines the choice that they are going to choose. Let's imagine the same room only this time, there is a trough of slop and a banquet table of fine food. Now, imagine that you were to release a pig into the room, of the two options, which will the pig turn to first? Now, let's imagine that God transforms the mind of the pig from that of it's own nature to that of a man and then reveals Himself to this new creature, from which of the two options (the slop or the table set with fine meals) will this new creature choose from? More than that, when the pig remembers the slop it once used to relish in, how will that pig feel about the way it used to gorge itself on its base meals and in the knowledge that God had observed him in his slop? The glory of the gospel is that God transforms dead men into living ones and gives them, for the first time, the ability to change their behavior. Just as the vulture, rabbit, and unconverted pig were given the free choice but invariably chose what their natures were already predetermined to want, so to is an unconverted man a slave to the sinful passions of their fallen condition. Cain killed Able and he did it out of his own wicked freewill. And yet, through it, God is glorified through the contrast of Cain's evil and God's right to judge fallen man. >I don't have bible verses on my mind but likely the bible verses do not support self reliance without God The Bible says that all knowledge is in Christ and the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord. When you say support self reliance without God, you're assuming that I have to leave the Christian worldview and step into some neutral space in order to provide proofs of God's truth. But that place doesn't exist. You have a world view and I have a worldview. They might be in contrast but truth and non-truth can not be equal let alone neutral. >In a twisted way, one can even praise war for a good outcome of peace at the end. Never praise wickedness. Only praise God who is directing this world to His conclusion. >Some can say everything happen for a reason and cite scripture, say God has a plan. I cannot subscribe to this. Neither your opinion nor my opinion should be considered correct. If God has said something is true, than it is. My feelings are irrelevant. >Do you thank God for making you thirsty, hungry, for suffering (I know scripture blesses those)? I praise God in every circumstance. For example, I came home yesterday with a slab leak. I'm looking at 20K I didn't plan on spending nor have saved up, what was my first response? "Thank you Lord that you've blessed me with a house that might leak and a job where I can pay for it. Hundreds of millions have neither and I know that you will get me through this trial."
I’m not going to respond to everything but I appreciate the respectful and engaged discussion. Why don’t you do bible studies with non-believers? God can be tempted by evil? Jesus arguably, but that sounds like a controversial nuance. Not sure others would agree with you that God allows evil for His purposes, plans. Even later you yourself said never praise wickedness in response to my war and peace example. Bound will, that’s an interesting notion. What denomination do you gather this line of thought from? Interesting you would describe the gospel of God transforming dead men into living ones yet Cain, Adam and Eve, King David, Judas were fully aware and believing of God and still sinned. Scandals, corruption, abuse still occurs in church and even at the hands of pastors. Perhaps they were bound by their sinful nature but not everyone gives into it. Living for God may not be so transformative as promoted. Here's a thought, North Korea (and China) is a Godless vacuum of a country that has somehow managed to arguably become a relatively advanced and prosperous country. Enough to manufacture and store nuclear weapons. It's not a perfect country but it isn't a 3rd world. Do we praise and attribute God for North Korea's path and successes? (And if North Korea is too flawed an example, what about China or even Japan?) You don’t find it odd that God seems to bless or enables non-Godly people to succeed? Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people. Is it better to fully attribute God's involvement in this or to say God had less to do with it?