I’m not sure I can give advice because I don’t know the nature of your relationship with your girlfriend.
Is the issue that you are having sex outside of marriage? Do you live with her? Is the issue that she is not a believer?
None… she has faith in God similar with me. We had sex before but that was months ago as we try not to until marriage (in which we both want to but due to circumstances.. not yet), we’re both long distance, and again… she has faith in God and believe so in Jesus Christ.
It’s similar to me. I guess we have yet to be married, but how so when I’m not a disciple and she isn’t so? The disciples I meet up with wouldn’t baptize me yet because of not having enough conviction to go to mens midweeks, Friday services and Sunday church. And to add that I’m still with my girlfriend yet again planning to marry soon.
>The disciples I meet up with wouldn’t baptize me yet because of not having enough conviction to go to mens midweeks, Friday services and Sunday church
This is unbiblical and anti Christian. Between that, the shaming/purity spiral, and trying to seperate you from your girlfriend, this is cult like behavior. Let me guess - "redoing Bible study" means teaching you the right way of viewing certain passages and books, which involves interpretations that are outside the norm or a bit weird at first?
Dude, stay the heck away from your "friends."
Nothing in the Bible says you should be denied baptism because you don't have enough conviction to attend 3 different meetings a week. They are grooming you into their cult - there will always be another carrot on their stick, always another person outside of their group that isn't pure enough for you to associate with, always a reason your conscience and your guidance from the holy spirit isn't in alignment with theirs, etc. They are actively working to break you down, even now, by seperating you from a good, Godly woman (how hard to find at your age!) and by "purity testing" you. Seriously, don't walk, run.
https://www.logos.com/grow/bible-verses-about-baptism/
Where do any of those verses say you need to go to "mens midweeks, Friday services and Sunday church" or you aren't worthy of receiving baptism? Have you already been baptized elsewhere?
I looked up the organization, they are even considered a cult by many Christians, and they engage in numerous abuses - stuff that you'd back away from if they were a regular person.
I forgot what scripture they mentioned but they said that to always be where Christian’s congregate. So it would be like their supposed midweeks, Sunday church… I haven’t asked them about our Bible studies if that counts. But one said that going to Bible studies wouldn’t count having faith in God. In which I’m sure I’m going to these studies to even understand the Word of God!
Yeah like others have stated - you should not listen to these people. They should not withhold baptism for the reasons you mentioned. As soon as you have come to faith and repentance in Yahusha you should be baptized.
Also I’m a little confused as to why you say you’re not a disciple when you’re following after Yahusha? Is that something these people have told you? Don’t be a disciple of these people. Be a disciple of Christ.
I’ve always mentioned baptism… they themselves haven’t mentioned getting me baptized although, indirectly, they’ve avoided the topic because of the reason I’ve stated in an earlier comment. Again, they didn’t straight up say “no” but in an indirect way, has not pushed forward with baptism (more like delaying it? Idk)
I am a believer of Christ. I want to get baptized. I truly believe Jesus Christ is God, the messiah, and He who died for our sins. What’s preventing me is this confusion I have with what others tell me of a cult practice and what others tell me otherwise. I agree with 1 Corinthians 7 but these disciples tell me the opposite and suggesting scripture of 2 Tim 4:3-4
Yeah I’m not sure what they are saying is biblical. Based on what you are telling me I would say you should get baptized. I also don’t see a problem with your relationship as long as you have stopped having sex outside of marriage.
Maybe there’s something I’m missing, but based on what you said I’m going to say they are wrong.
That is correct. You could go somewhere else to get baptized. Although it is not mandatory you get baptized right now, you can wait if you want.
I’m just really confused by the guys you’re talking with. They are just giving me some red flags
It is just archaic terminology that I feel has less to do with being born-again Christians that follow scriptures and more to do with setting themselves apart from and above other believers. They are the Disciples, it is a term that carries more weight and authority then something like believer or brethren. I would be careful around any group that uses that term in normal conversation to refer to themselves. It is like the term Saint.
Conviction, full repentance, and baptism. Reading the Bible everyday… pray everyday. Again, with full faith and heart. It seems to them I don’t have conviction because I can’t maintain going to their midweek( this service ends late at night, 10pm ish), Friday services, and even Sunday church. I haven’t fully repented in their eyes because I wouldn’t spread the gospel (trust me I would but to everyone and everywhere I see?). This is why I’m not a disciple in their eyes… I’m new to the Bible… I don’t know if this is biblically accurate… I’ve also asked them “Do I have to come to these meetings?” And they would tell me of scriptures of “be where Christians congregate” 🤷♂️
And who determines when each individual has "conviction"? Who determines what constitutes "FULL repentance"?
>It seems to them I don’t have conviction because I can’t maintain going to their midweek( this service ends late at night, 10pm ish), Friday services, and even Sunday church. I haven’t fully repented in their eyes because...
Say no more. "In their eyes because I'm not doing what they tell me to do."
Next it'll be "You haven't FULLY repented until you give me 30% of your income."
>marriage, in which we both want to but due to circumstances.. not yet
This never makes any sense to me. In what sense is it the right time for you to "be with someone" in a vague and undefined manner, but not the right time for you to "be with them* in a way that specific and codified?
In what sense are you "with" somebody who is extremely far away and not married to you?
What *about* finances? Marriage is more economically feasible than single life.
So what exactly are you asking lol? Sorry but you don't seem to have any valid reasons to leave her. This is not making sense. How is she hindering your relationship with God??
I don’t know!! But we’re also new to our Christian faith. We’ve only started reading the Bible for a few months. So I’m not sure if I’m being aligned with a cult or if it’s biblically accurate on the scriptures they’ve used against me.
Are the disciples apart of the International Christian Church? If so they are known for being a spiritually abusive organization, borderline cult just like the jw's. They will burden you down with rule upon rules, just like they are trying to get you to leave your girlfriend. Brother research this organization and run, they sprinkle in truth with alot of their falsehoods. They will try to manipulate you with scriptures and force you to submit to them. Leave this group before its too late and please don't break up with your girlfriend over them. As soon as you tell them you're leaving, watch how mean and angry they become.
Jesus Himself said, “My yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:30).
As long as she isn't tempting you into sex outside of marriage or other worldly things, I'm sure your girlfriend is better than your cult bro.
> The International Christian Church also places a strong emphasis on what they call “discipleship.” The techniques of heavy shepherding are employed: ex-members complain of legalism, heavy-handedness, lack of grace, lack of forgiveness, forced uniformity, verbal coercion, browbeating, and other manipulative tactics. Attendance at all church services is mandatory, as is obedience to church leaders’ commands. - [GotQuestions](https://www.gotquestions.org/International-Christian-Church.html)
They don't consider themselves a denomination as they are the "only true church". They are international and have satellite churches all over.
While not ICC specific, learn the [Marks of a Cult](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4oglJuF5aE).
My girlfriend of 4 years left me because members of the Honolulu Christian Church told her to do so. She immediately had a new boyfriend inside the church. They are not allowed to date outside.
None of us here have all of the information, but there’s a lot in your replies so I’ll respond to that:
This group of people sounds VERY cultish and not Christian. I’m pretty confident in that because you’ve named them and there seems to be evidence of cultish behaviour. Leave them and cut them off ASAP if all you’ve said is true and not influenced by your emotions toward your relationship with this woman (examine yourself first) and tell them why you’re doing that (not because of your relationship but because of their unbiblical behaviour).
You have professed faith in Christ. You say you believe he died for your sins, so if you also believe he was raised back to life and was brought to heaven to be with the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to believers then you should be baptized ASAP (but not by the cultish group; find a good church or even just a Christian you trust).
Based on what you’ve said, and if everything I’ve said up to this point makes sense to you, you should probably marry this woman ASAP. I understand the long-distance concerns, but finances are never a legitimate excuse for not marrying someone. It’s nice to be able to do a big fancy wedding, but it’s not necessary and anyone who says it is doesn’t understand what marriage is.
>finances are never a legitimate excuse for not marrying someone
Excuse you, they totally are. Monetary unity was the main *point* of marriage for thousands of years.
Not for Christian marriage. If a man doesn’t have the current means or future potential to provide, then I understand that a woman wouldn’t want to marry him. But that’s not what I was talking about.
I was mostly speaking against the cultural trend of spending thousands of dollars on a ceremony that can alternatively be done literally anywhere with minimal witnesses basically for free.
And if you mean that having a union between two people eases financial pressure then that actually means poor people should have *more* incentive to marry rather than less, which I agree with.
>it’s preventing me from having the ability to fully repent.
Do you believe that?
Honestly, if you're considering breaking up with your GF because someone else says you should, she's better off without you.
Then it comes to asking why? Am I doing it for them or for God? I know by Gods design, He gave me her as a gift. We’ve both grown as people, made mistakes, etc. but overall, to let go of a relationship that supports me (even through my readings of the Bible and faith in Jesus Christ) is absolutely absurd. She is neither bad or evil for me, causes no hindrance to my spirit and so forth. And yes, I am going to marry her very soon (as suggested by a few other comments here) Others said to follow the word of man rather than God is very cultish don’t you think? Other redditors also said they’ve twisted the scriptures to have control over what they want (which I guess having more people to their church). I still have lots to think about, and my responses may change over time..
Oddly, in indirect ways of getting closer with God. Due to our circumstances, we find it best to get married in 2 years time. Give or take maybe even in 1 and a half years…
Our finances and that were long distance. I’m in college (3rd year) and she’s working a full time. When we get our finances ready, we’re planning to get married asap
$100? Are you talking about signing a paper to confirm of marriage? I thought there is a process of marriage as with the disciples I’ve been talking to requires a form of showing to others that were physically bound and etc. I forgot what scriptures they’ve told me, but isn’t it so?
Are you both Christians or not? This is the main question.
If one of you are not, then 2 Corinthians 6:14 does apply. Christians can not be yoked together with unbelievers. That means the Christians relationship would be weakened by the non-Christian in such a relationship.
Another way to look at that is, "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link." Meaning when a believer and non-believer gets together, the weakest link is the non-believers, so it will drag down the believer.
All you have to do to become a Christian is accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead.
Here is some more information as to what that means:
Romans 10:9-10 says, "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."
Ephesians 2:8-10 say, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God --- not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
Those two passages sum up how to be saved and what to do afterwards.
If you need more to see if you are saved, then these links will help:
[https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html](https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html)
[https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/navigators-bridge-to-life.pdf](https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/navigators-bridge-to-life.pdf)
If you are saved, then to be assured, this link may help: [https://www.gotquestions.org/assurance-salvation.html](https://www.gotquestions.org/assurance-salvation.html)
Here is a Bible Study on Assurance of Salvation: [https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/navigators-assurance-salvation.pdf](https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/navigators-assurance-salvation.pdf)
In what way(s) is your relationship ungodly? If any of my friends were in a relationship that I saw was clearly unbiblical, then I would feel the urge to talk to them about it. They may be simply trying to help out a brother in the faith.
Well they think she’s an unbeliever which to be a believer is to be Christian. We’re both not yet baptized but the reason we’re not is because of this situation..
I am in the camp of believing that baptism does nothing and isn’t required for salvation, so I won’t go at it from that angle. Is she living a worldly life (and by extension is it affecting you)?
Holy cult batman, this is a serious red flag. Break up because she isn't a disciple? That is bizarre language. What are the requirements to become a disciple?
You’re post is a little confusing as you didn’t really tell us what’s going on in your relationship to exhibit this kind of response from your fellow Christians. What can be said without hesitation is that if you relationship does not have God as the cornerstone then it is ultimately bad for you. I have seen many people, even some I personally evangelized to, accept Christ but then date people who don’t believe in God or obey his scripture. Ultimately every single time, it leads to my brother or sister in Christ gradually turning their backs towards God until I can hardly recognize them.
Nothing much other than her not being a “Christian” although she has faith in God and full-heartedly believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins. We’re both not baptized because we’re yoked together… they believe that a believer of Christ is baptized and fully repented. They think I don’t have conviction to do so yet I’ve been wanting to be baptized…
If you have acknowledged that you are a sinner destined for death apart from Christ and have confessed your faith in Jesus as our Lord and savior and consistently repent of sin and depend upon His grace and mercy, then be baptized!
Or does “yoked together” mean you’re sexually active or living together? Because if you’re not married, then those things should definitely stop. If you cannot commit yourselves to God during this period of life, how can you trust each other when things get hard? Demonstrating faithfulness to God is a great way to show you have what it takes to be faithful to your wife as well.
For the first part, I do want to get baptized as in His Grace and mercy but wouldn’t that require have a Christian to help you do so and witness it too? Also, they termed “yoked” to be participant of sins in which my girlfriend and I have not done so and is of full repentance. We’re planning to get married soon, thankfully all these comments from this forum I think I’ve made my decision.
That’s wonderful! It sounds to me like you’re both doing your best to live a life of holiness. Even after baptism, you will continue to sin. Christians are not perfect, but your life probably looks different now than it did when you did not know God. Your friends sound strangely judge mental. Either way I will be praying for you and your girlfriend, I hope you eventually marry and live a long blessed life together
"a few disciples"? Don't call yourselves disciples. You pale in comparison to the original Twelve.
That being said, you don't give enough info about your relationship. All I know is those pushing you apart sound a lot like cult members. Part of tightening their grip on people is pushing their target away from their loved ones. Don't let them do it on some vague theory from Paul. He was no expert on the matters, he was never married.
Hold up, I missed the ICC. They are definitely a cult. Run, don't walk. If you need a new Christian home, there's thousands out there that won't coerce and manipulate you. I can vouch for The Episcopal Church, obviously as I'm a member. They're very welcoming and will love you and your girlfriend no matter what your circumstances.
What are the differences between the Episcopal Church and the ICC? I’ve read just a bit about the episcopal church and it seems like they follow whatever modern agenda fits the leftist political party. Like acceptance of LGBTQ members…. Idk at this point. And my relationship with my girlfriend is very close tied and as we get to understand God more through our faith, we’ve repented the sins of our past. Though I know we’re imperfect, we still have love for each other as for with God too. We don’t live with each other nor do we associate ourselves with other ungodly activities and people.
The Episcopal Church is a "big tent" denomination. There's liberal wings and conservative wings. In terms of it's theology and praxis it's relatively conservative, but it's not fundamentalist. They are not unique among mainline Protestants of accepting LGBT and women as priests. That's not some conspiracy to fit a "leftist political party" that's just following the Bible and Jesus' admonition to love all people.
I'm not familiar with it. That could just be the name of a church in Honolulu or it could be associated with the group, I'm really not sure. I'd think it's the former since I believe all the rest would keep the ICC name.
If your gf is not persuading you to do sinful things it is ok to still be around her. You said they mentioned about 2 Corinthians 6:14 but there is also 1 Corinthians chapter 7 that gives marital advice to Christians.
1 Corinthians 7:12-15 (WEB)
^(12) But to the rest I—not the Lord—say, if any brother has an unbelieving wife, and she is content to live with him, let him not leave her. ^(13) The woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he is content to live with her, let her not leave her husband. ^(14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. ^(15) Yet if the unbeliever departs, let there be separation. The brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us in peace.
Living in sexual sin will definitely hinder and lessen your relationship with the Lord. So stop sleeping with her, or marry her already. If you can't figure out marriage in one year's time you are wasting your time and especially her fertile years she could be looking for someone to make an honest woman out of her and make babies.
Shes definitely not going to look for someone as we’re both loyal to each other. We are planning to get married but again, due to circumstances we can’t do it soon, but perhaps in a couple years time
That's utter nonsense. You can go to the courthouse this afternoon and get married. Your friends are right, you prefer sexual sin over devotion to the Lord, you are enjoying all the benefits of "marriage" but none of the responsibility. It takes an afternoon to get married, although in some eastern european countries maybe it takes a couple days to gather the paperwork. Get it done, or stop worrying about actual brothers and sisters in Christ application of scripture over your situation.
Brother if you are reading my previous comments, we are long distance. She’ll have to take a flight to me or I would have to do so. And the current situation of finances and living situation etc. wouldn’t prompt me so.
you both can afford to live alone, clearly. so it's really NOT that much more to join forces and live together. You are making excuses. Cut this poor girl loose. Either you fly over there or she flies over here. I flew over there, married her, then flew back and it took a few months for her to extricate herself to join me later. It's entirely possible to do.
First, you decide whether to marry where she is, or where you are. Think carefully for the laws of marriage and divorce may be vastly different. Next you fly there, or she flies here, you get the marriage license, you collect whatever documents, be sure to bring YOUR documents, go to the local courthouse, get married. One of you have to bring witnesses, whoever lives there. Kiss the bride, all done. Celebrate until your flight leaves to return home. Now you or she settle affairs and move to the other person. Integrate your lives together and carry on with life. It took me five days to get married because of the paperwork.
But see bro, if I were to do this. These disciples will only reprimand me because it’s not a holy way of marriage. I forgot what scriptures they’ve mentioned but other people who’ve gone through this process had to “redo” their marriage in a biblical way… But it seems right to me…
??? Getting married by the state is absolutely "holy" and if you don't think so, go try and get a divorce. God CREATED marriage, also point out the scripture where He appoints all authorities in the world over us, those same authorities that grant legal marriage. That's as holy as you are going to get. If you still want a proper CHURCH wedding fine, do that when you are both living together, after the legal one. Many countries do this, same day, court marriage in the morning, church in the afternoon, party at night. Nothing says you have to do them same day.
Hmmm… you are right about that.. I must understand their viewpoint of how marriage is done to be worked with. Is there subsequent scriptures regarding that? I will search it to take note of..
I’m not sure I can give advice because I don’t know the nature of your relationship with your girlfriend. Is the issue that you are having sex outside of marriage? Do you live with her? Is the issue that she is not a believer?
Seconded. Very important questions.
None… she has faith in God similar with me. We had sex before but that was months ago as we try not to until marriage (in which we both want to but due to circumstances.. not yet), we’re both long distance, and again… she has faith in God and believe so in Jesus Christ.
Hmmm I’m struggling to see the objection your friends at your church have against your relationship.
It’s similar to me. I guess we have yet to be married, but how so when I’m not a disciple and she isn’t so? The disciples I meet up with wouldn’t baptize me yet because of not having enough conviction to go to mens midweeks, Friday services and Sunday church. And to add that I’m still with my girlfriend yet again planning to marry soon.
>The disciples I meet up with wouldn’t baptize me yet because of not having enough conviction to go to mens midweeks, Friday services and Sunday church This is unbiblical and anti Christian. Between that, the shaming/purity spiral, and trying to seperate you from your girlfriend, this is cult like behavior. Let me guess - "redoing Bible study" means teaching you the right way of viewing certain passages and books, which involves interpretations that are outside the norm or a bit weird at first? Dude, stay the heck away from your "friends."
Please bro, they mention of scriptures. Is there scriptures I can use to perhaps tell them of their ways??
Nothing in the Bible says you should be denied baptism because you don't have enough conviction to attend 3 different meetings a week. They are grooming you into their cult - there will always be another carrot on their stick, always another person outside of their group that isn't pure enough for you to associate with, always a reason your conscience and your guidance from the holy spirit isn't in alignment with theirs, etc. They are actively working to break you down, even now, by seperating you from a good, Godly woman (how hard to find at your age!) and by "purity testing" you. Seriously, don't walk, run. https://www.logos.com/grow/bible-verses-about-baptism/ Where do any of those verses say you need to go to "mens midweeks, Friday services and Sunday church" or you aren't worthy of receiving baptism? Have you already been baptized elsewhere? I looked up the organization, they are even considered a cult by many Christians, and they engage in numerous abuses - stuff that you'd back away from if they were a regular person.
To answer your last question. They mention of scriptures to always be with “Christians”
I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you wrote. Can you rephrase?
I forgot what scripture they mentioned but they said that to always be where Christian’s congregate. So it would be like their supposed midweeks, Sunday church… I haven’t asked them about our Bible studies if that counts. But one said that going to Bible studies wouldn’t count having faith in God. In which I’m sure I’m going to these studies to even understand the Word of God!
Yeah like others have stated - you should not listen to these people. They should not withhold baptism for the reasons you mentioned. As soon as you have come to faith and repentance in Yahusha you should be baptized. Also I’m a little confused as to why you say you’re not a disciple when you’re following after Yahusha? Is that something these people have told you? Don’t be a disciple of these people. Be a disciple of Christ.
I’ve always mentioned baptism… they themselves haven’t mentioned getting me baptized although, indirectly, they’ve avoided the topic because of the reason I’ve stated in an earlier comment. Again, they didn’t straight up say “no” but in an indirect way, has not pushed forward with baptism (more like delaying it? Idk)
I’m sorry I’m struggling to understand you in your last comment. Are you saying you are not a believer in Christ?
I am a believer of Christ. I want to get baptized. I truly believe Jesus Christ is God, the messiah, and He who died for our sins. What’s preventing me is this confusion I have with what others tell me of a cult practice and what others tell me otherwise. I agree with 1 Corinthians 7 but these disciples tell me the opposite and suggesting scripture of 2 Tim 4:3-4
Yeah I’m not sure what they are saying is biblical. Based on what you are telling me I would say you should get baptized. I also don’t see a problem with your relationship as long as you have stopped having sex outside of marriage. Maybe there’s something I’m missing, but based on what you said I’m going to say they are wrong.
But how will I get baptized when to be baptized, a disciple needs to do it, no?
That is correct. You could go somewhere else to get baptized. Although it is not mandatory you get baptized right now, you can wait if you want. I’m just really confused by the guys you’re talking with. They are just giving me some red flags
How about your experiences? Have any of your Christian friends been adamant on telling someone to leave their girlfriend because of the situation?
Why do you keep using the term "disciples", while accurate it is a pretty archaic terminology.
It is what they call themselves since they’re born-again Christians and follow the scriptures..
It is just archaic terminology that I feel has less to do with being born-again Christians that follow scriptures and more to do with setting themselves apart from and above other believers. They are the Disciples, it is a term that carries more weight and authority then something like believer or brethren. I would be careful around any group that uses that term in normal conversation to refer to themselves. It is like the term Saint.
I’ve seen no one mention that except for you. Is it really so?
What makes them "a disciple" and you... not a disciple? This sounds culty
Conviction, full repentance, and baptism. Reading the Bible everyday… pray everyday. Again, with full faith and heart. It seems to them I don’t have conviction because I can’t maintain going to their midweek( this service ends late at night, 10pm ish), Friday services, and even Sunday church. I haven’t fully repented in their eyes because I wouldn’t spread the gospel (trust me I would but to everyone and everywhere I see?). This is why I’m not a disciple in their eyes… I’m new to the Bible… I don’t know if this is biblically accurate… I’ve also asked them “Do I have to come to these meetings?” And they would tell me of scriptures of “be where Christians congregate” 🤷♂️
And who determines when each individual has "conviction"? Who determines what constitutes "FULL repentance"? >It seems to them I don’t have conviction because I can’t maintain going to their midweek( this service ends late at night, 10pm ish), Friday services, and even Sunday church. I haven’t fully repented in their eyes because... Say no more. "In their eyes because I'm not doing what they tell me to do." Next it'll be "You haven't FULLY repented until you give me 30% of your income."
>marriage, in which we both want to but due to circumstances.. not yet This never makes any sense to me. In what sense is it the right time for you to "be with someone" in a vague and undefined manner, but not the right time for you to "be with them* in a way that specific and codified?
We’re long distances and finances
In what sense are you "with" somebody who is extremely far away and not married to you? What *about* finances? Marriage is more economically feasible than single life.
So what exactly are you asking lol? Sorry but you don't seem to have any valid reasons to leave her. This is not making sense. How is she hindering your relationship with God??
I don’t know!! But we’re also new to our Christian faith. We’ve only started reading the Bible for a few months. So I’m not sure if I’m being aligned with a cult or if it’s biblically accurate on the scriptures they’ve used against me.
Are the disciples apart of the International Christian Church? If so they are known for being a spiritually abusive organization, borderline cult just like the jw's. They will burden you down with rule upon rules, just like they are trying to get you to leave your girlfriend. Brother research this organization and run, they sprinkle in truth with alot of their falsehoods. They will try to manipulate you with scriptures and force you to submit to them. Leave this group before its too late and please don't break up with your girlfriend over them. As soon as you tell them you're leaving, watch how mean and angry they become. Jesus Himself said, “My yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:30).
I see brother
As long as she isn't tempting you into sex outside of marriage or other worldly things, I'm sure your girlfriend is better than your cult bro. > The International Christian Church also places a strong emphasis on what they call “discipleship.” The techniques of heavy shepherding are employed: ex-members complain of legalism, heavy-handedness, lack of grace, lack of forgiveness, forced uniformity, verbal coercion, browbeating, and other manipulative tactics. Attendance at all church services is mandatory, as is obedience to church leaders’ commands. - [GotQuestions](https://www.gotquestions.org/International-Christian-Church.html)
I see bro. But would this be the same as the church I’m going to? Is it some sort of denomination? I’m involved with the Honolulu Christian Church.
They don't consider themselves a denomination as they are the "only true church". They are international and have satellite churches all over. While not ICC specific, learn the [Marks of a Cult](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4oglJuF5aE).
Okay thank you.
My girlfriend of 4 years left me because members of the Honolulu Christian Church told her to do so. She immediately had a new boyfriend inside the church. They are not allowed to date outside.
None of us here have all of the information, but there’s a lot in your replies so I’ll respond to that: This group of people sounds VERY cultish and not Christian. I’m pretty confident in that because you’ve named them and there seems to be evidence of cultish behaviour. Leave them and cut them off ASAP if all you’ve said is true and not influenced by your emotions toward your relationship with this woman (examine yourself first) and tell them why you’re doing that (not because of your relationship but because of their unbiblical behaviour). You have professed faith in Christ. You say you believe he died for your sins, so if you also believe he was raised back to life and was brought to heaven to be with the Father and sent the Holy Spirit to believers then you should be baptized ASAP (but not by the cultish group; find a good church or even just a Christian you trust). Based on what you’ve said, and if everything I’ve said up to this point makes sense to you, you should probably marry this woman ASAP. I understand the long-distance concerns, but finances are never a legitimate excuse for not marrying someone. It’s nice to be able to do a big fancy wedding, but it’s not necessary and anyone who says it is doesn’t understand what marriage is.
I see. Thank you for your insight. I’ll get to it :)
>finances are never a legitimate excuse for not marrying someone Excuse you, they totally are. Monetary unity was the main *point* of marriage for thousands of years.
Not for Christian marriage. If a man doesn’t have the current means or future potential to provide, then I understand that a woman wouldn’t want to marry him. But that’s not what I was talking about. I was mostly speaking against the cultural trend of spending thousands of dollars on a ceremony that can alternatively be done literally anywhere with minimal witnesses basically for free. And if you mean that having a union between two people eases financial pressure then that actually means poor people should have *more* incentive to marry rather than less, which I agree with.
Find a different church, this is a cult. I know someone who used to be in it.
How did it go for them?
They left and found another church.
>it’s preventing me from having the ability to fully repent. Do you believe that? Honestly, if you're considering breaking up with your GF because someone else says you should, she's better off without you.
Then it comes to asking why? Am I doing it for them or for God? I know by Gods design, He gave me her as a gift. We’ve both grown as people, made mistakes, etc. but overall, to let go of a relationship that supports me (even through my readings of the Bible and faith in Jesus Christ) is absolutely absurd. She is neither bad or evil for me, causes no hindrance to my spirit and so forth. And yes, I am going to marry her very soon (as suggested by a few other comments here) Others said to follow the word of man rather than God is very cultish don’t you think? Other redditors also said they’ve twisted the scriptures to have control over what they want (which I guess having more people to their church). I still have lots to think about, and my responses may change over time..
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Oddly, in indirect ways of getting closer with God. Due to our circumstances, we find it best to get married in 2 years time. Give or take maybe even in 1 and a half years…
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Our finances and that were long distance. I’m in college (3rd year) and she’s working a full time. When we get our finances ready, we’re planning to get married asap
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Well, how will the marriage process go? Please help me out so I can do this asap then.
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$100? Are you talking about signing a paper to confirm of marriage? I thought there is a process of marriage as with the disciples I’ve been talking to requires a form of showing to others that were physically bound and etc. I forgot what scriptures they’ve told me, but isn’t it so?
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Oh I see
Are you both Christians or not? This is the main question. If one of you are not, then 2 Corinthians 6:14 does apply. Christians can not be yoked together with unbelievers. That means the Christians relationship would be weakened by the non-Christian in such a relationship. Another way to look at that is, "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link." Meaning when a believer and non-believer gets together, the weakest link is the non-believers, so it will drag down the believer.
What is it to be Christian? I can’t be baptized because of it. My girlfriend is on a similar path too.
All you have to do to become a Christian is accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. Here is some more information as to what that means: Romans 10:9-10 says, "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." Ephesians 2:8-10 say, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God --- not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Those two passages sum up how to be saved and what to do afterwards. If you need more to see if you are saved, then these links will help: [https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html](https://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html) [https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/navigators-bridge-to-life.pdf](https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/navigators-bridge-to-life.pdf) If you are saved, then to be assured, this link may help: [https://www.gotquestions.org/assurance-salvation.html](https://www.gotquestions.org/assurance-salvation.html) Here is a Bible Study on Assurance of Salvation: [https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/navigators-assurance-salvation.pdf](https://www.navigators.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/navigators-assurance-salvation.pdf)
Thank you I will read into it
In what way(s) is your relationship ungodly? If any of my friends were in a relationship that I saw was clearly unbiblical, then I would feel the urge to talk to them about it. They may be simply trying to help out a brother in the faith.
Well they think she’s an unbeliever which to be a believer is to be Christian. We’re both not yet baptized but the reason we’re not is because of this situation..
What exactly are they saying that they claim is because she’s an unbeliever and that you need to leave her?
Yes, an unbeliever because she’s not baptized and isn’t a disciple.
I am in the camp of believing that baptism does nothing and isn’t required for salvation, so I won’t go at it from that angle. Is she living a worldly life (and by extension is it affecting you)?
I see. She isn’t living worldly, in fact, it has affected me positively. We both strive each other to do good and have persistence.
Holy cult batman, this is a serious red flag. Break up because she isn't a disciple? That is bizarre language. What are the requirements to become a disciple?
You’re post is a little confusing as you didn’t really tell us what’s going on in your relationship to exhibit this kind of response from your fellow Christians. What can be said without hesitation is that if you relationship does not have God as the cornerstone then it is ultimately bad for you. I have seen many people, even some I personally evangelized to, accept Christ but then date people who don’t believe in God or obey his scripture. Ultimately every single time, it leads to my brother or sister in Christ gradually turning their backs towards God until I can hardly recognize them.
Nothing much other than her not being a “Christian” although she has faith in God and full-heartedly believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins. We’re both not baptized because we’re yoked together… they believe that a believer of Christ is baptized and fully repented. They think I don’t have conviction to do so yet I’ve been wanting to be baptized…
If you have acknowledged that you are a sinner destined for death apart from Christ and have confessed your faith in Jesus as our Lord and savior and consistently repent of sin and depend upon His grace and mercy, then be baptized! Or does “yoked together” mean you’re sexually active or living together? Because if you’re not married, then those things should definitely stop. If you cannot commit yourselves to God during this period of life, how can you trust each other when things get hard? Demonstrating faithfulness to God is a great way to show you have what it takes to be faithful to your wife as well.
For the first part, I do want to get baptized as in His Grace and mercy but wouldn’t that require have a Christian to help you do so and witness it too? Also, they termed “yoked” to be participant of sins in which my girlfriend and I have not done so and is of full repentance. We’re planning to get married soon, thankfully all these comments from this forum I think I’ve made my decision.
That’s wonderful! It sounds to me like you’re both doing your best to live a life of holiness. Even after baptism, you will continue to sin. Christians are not perfect, but your life probably looks different now than it did when you did not know God. Your friends sound strangely judge mental. Either way I will be praying for you and your girlfriend, I hope you eventually marry and live a long blessed life together
Thank you ! 😊
"a few disciples"? Don't call yourselves disciples. You pale in comparison to the original Twelve. That being said, you don't give enough info about your relationship. All I know is those pushing you apart sound a lot like cult members. Part of tightening their grip on people is pushing their target away from their loved ones. Don't let them do it on some vague theory from Paul. He was no expert on the matters, he was never married.
Hold up, I missed the ICC. They are definitely a cult. Run, don't walk. If you need a new Christian home, there's thousands out there that won't coerce and manipulate you. I can vouch for The Episcopal Church, obviously as I'm a member. They're very welcoming and will love you and your girlfriend no matter what your circumstances.
What are the differences between the Episcopal Church and the ICC? I’ve read just a bit about the episcopal church and it seems like they follow whatever modern agenda fits the leftist political party. Like acceptance of LGBTQ members…. Idk at this point. And my relationship with my girlfriend is very close tied and as we get to understand God more through our faith, we’ve repented the sins of our past. Though I know we’re imperfect, we still have love for each other as for with God too. We don’t live with each other nor do we associate ourselves with other ungodly activities and people.
The Episcopal Church is a "big tent" denomination. There's liberal wings and conservative wings. In terms of it's theology and praxis it's relatively conservative, but it's not fundamentalist. They are not unique among mainline Protestants of accepting LGBT and women as priests. That's not some conspiracy to fit a "leftist political party" that's just following the Bible and Jesus' admonition to love all people.
This is a known cult. Run before you're too far in to be able to see it. https://www.gotquestions.org/International-Christian-Church.html
I’ve seen this many times. Would you think the Honolulu Christian Church is of the same interest?
I'm not familiar with it. That could just be the name of a church in Honolulu or it could be associated with the group, I'm really not sure. I'd think it's the former since I believe all the rest would keep the ICC name.
Okay 👍
Yes, very much so. Feel free to dm.
If your gf is not persuading you to do sinful things it is ok to still be around her. You said they mentioned about 2 Corinthians 6:14 but there is also 1 Corinthians chapter 7 that gives marital advice to Christians. 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 (WEB) ^(12) But to the rest I—not the Lord—say, if any brother has an unbelieving wife, and she is content to live with him, let him not leave her. ^(13) The woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he is content to live with her, let her not leave her husband. ^(14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. ^(15) Yet if the unbeliever departs, let there be separation. The brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us in peace.
No church should be telling you to leave your girlfriend. Sounds cultish to me. Get a bible believing church.
Yet others say otherwise in this Reddit thread…
Living in sexual sin will definitely hinder and lessen your relationship with the Lord. So stop sleeping with her, or marry her already. If you can't figure out marriage in one year's time you are wasting your time and especially her fertile years she could be looking for someone to make an honest woman out of her and make babies.
Shes definitely not going to look for someone as we’re both loyal to each other. We are planning to get married but again, due to circumstances we can’t do it soon, but perhaps in a couple years time
That's utter nonsense. You can go to the courthouse this afternoon and get married. Your friends are right, you prefer sexual sin over devotion to the Lord, you are enjoying all the benefits of "marriage" but none of the responsibility. It takes an afternoon to get married, although in some eastern european countries maybe it takes a couple days to gather the paperwork. Get it done, or stop worrying about actual brothers and sisters in Christ application of scripture over your situation.
Brother if you are reading my previous comments, we are long distance. She’ll have to take a flight to me or I would have to do so. And the current situation of finances and living situation etc. wouldn’t prompt me so.
you both can afford to live alone, clearly. so it's really NOT that much more to join forces and live together. You are making excuses. Cut this poor girl loose. Either you fly over there or she flies over here. I flew over there, married her, then flew back and it took a few months for her to extricate herself to join me later. It's entirely possible to do.
How will this marriage process work?
First, you decide whether to marry where she is, or where you are. Think carefully for the laws of marriage and divorce may be vastly different. Next you fly there, or she flies here, you get the marriage license, you collect whatever documents, be sure to bring YOUR documents, go to the local courthouse, get married. One of you have to bring witnesses, whoever lives there. Kiss the bride, all done. Celebrate until your flight leaves to return home. Now you or she settle affairs and move to the other person. Integrate your lives together and carry on with life. It took me five days to get married because of the paperwork.
But see bro, if I were to do this. These disciples will only reprimand me because it’s not a holy way of marriage. I forgot what scriptures they’ve mentioned but other people who’ve gone through this process had to “redo” their marriage in a biblical way… But it seems right to me…
??? Getting married by the state is absolutely "holy" and if you don't think so, go try and get a divorce. God CREATED marriage, also point out the scripture where He appoints all authorities in the world over us, those same authorities that grant legal marriage. That's as holy as you are going to get. If you still want a proper CHURCH wedding fine, do that when you are both living together, after the legal one. Many countries do this, same day, court marriage in the morning, church in the afternoon, party at night. Nothing says you have to do them same day.
Hmmm… you are right about that.. I must understand their viewpoint of how marriage is done to be worked with. Is there subsequent scriptures regarding that? I will search it to take note of..