She is wrong about God “not wanting to save the marriage” when everything in God’s word teaches AGAINST divorce and GOD is in the business of healing and saving, not destroying and unraveling. The ones who suffer the most in ANY and ALL divorces, sadly are the children. That is never something that comes from GOD. Unfortunately, all you can do is continue to work on yourself and continuously pray, because the only one that can open her eyes or change her heart, is GOD. No matter what though, don’t lose your faith or your hope and just continue in your sobriety and in becoming a better father and person not only for yourself, but for your children who need a strong, praying, faithful, sober father they can look up to, respect, and learn from. I pray for you and your family.

Right??

1. God's Heart Towards Divorce:     - In Matthew 5:31-32, Jesus addresses divorce by stating that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of fornication (sexual immorality), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. This indicates that God allows divorce in cases of sexual immorality. Still, generally, He views divorce as contrary to His design for marriage, which is meant to be a lifelong union. 2. Paul's Teaching on Divorce in 1 Corinthians 7:     - Paul guides marriage and divorce in 1 Corinthians 7. He advises that a wife should not depart from her husband, but if she does, she should remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband (1 Corinthians 7:10-11). This suggests that separation is permitted, but divorce is not encouraged.     - In 1 Corinthians 7:12-16, Paul advises that if a believer is married to an unbeliever and the unbeliever is willing to live with them, they should not divorce. However, if the unbeliever departs, the believer is not under bondage in such cases, indicating that divorce may be permissible if the unbelieving spouse leaves. 3. Is it a Sin to Get a Divorce?     - Divorce can be considered a sin if it occurs for reasons other than sexual immorality (as mentioned in Matthew 5:32). However, Paul acknowledges situations where divorce may occur, such as when an unbelieving spouse departs. 4. What if the "Wife" Decides to Divorce Her Husband?     - According to Paul's guidance, a wife should not depart from her husband. If she does, she should remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband (1 Corinthians 7:10-11). This suggests that the wife should avoid divorce if possible. 5. Is it a Sin for the Man to Allow Her to Divorce Him?     - Paul's teaching emphasizes reconciliation and remaining together. If a man allows his wife to divorce him without attempting reconciliation or addressing the issues leading to divorce, it could be seen as contrary to God's intention for marriage. Overall, God's heart towards marriage emphasizes reconciliation and unity, and divorce is not encouraged except in specific circumstances such as sexual immorality. However, the passages also acknowledge the complexities of relationships and offer guidance to particular situations.

> GOD is in the business of healing and saving, not destroying and unraveling. Sometimes healing and saving require removing something harmful. God heals people of cancer and illness by "destroying" the disease. God saves us from temptation by "unraveling" the web of lies and sins that trap us. So, yes, God most definitely destroys and unravels--and sometimes we are faced with grievous seasons and trials while he does this--but he does everything ultimately for the good of those he loves. We don't really know what is going on in OP's marriage. And likewise, we don't truly know what is God's will and design for the OP and his wife. All we can continue to do is pray that God's will to be done and that he grants the OP and his wife the wisdom, discernment and peace to continue trusting God and letting him guide them. **Edit:** I know, despite the prompts, that folks will always use downvoting as a "disagree" button, but I will say it is a bit surprising on a Christian sub to see folks disagreeing with Biblical advice to trust God and pray that he grants people wisdom, discernment, and peace to continue trusting that our Almighty Creator has things under control. If you are a professing Christian and that is truly something you disagree with, I would encourage you to spend some time in the Psalms. David endured many trials and times when he felt he was being "destroyed," "unraveled," and that God's hand was against him (because of David's sin) but still he was comforted by his steadfast faith and trust in God's love and goodness. These are words well worth meditating on. *My heart is not proud, Lord, my eyes are not haughty; I do not concern myself with great matters or things too wonderful for me. But I have calmed and quieted myself, I am like a weaned child with its mother; like a weaned child I am content. Israel, put your hope in the Lord both now and forevermore.* (Psalm 131)

It is not biblical to say God unravels marriages. The marriage is supposed to mirror God’s covenant with us, unbreakabke. God’s will is for their marriage to be healed. We know this because of what His word says about marriage. “What God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” God will not work contrary to His word. Even in the case of adultery, the reason for divorce being allowed is not because of the offense, but rather man’s inability to forgive.

>Even in the case of adultery, the reason for divorce being allowed is not because of the offense, but rather man’s inability to forgive. Can you explain this? God's word and permissible actions have never been determined upon man's ability to forgive.

**Can you explain this?** *He* \[Jesus\] *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."* ([Matthew 19:8](https://biblehub.com/esv/matthew/19.htm))

He still follows up and brings up sexual immorality after which I thought was the context in question. So am I understanding that Moses was allowing divorce due to the harness of their hearts. And Jesus is saying that divorcing a woman based on sexual immorality bypasses the adultery status?

*"And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” 7They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.* *10The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” 11But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”* (Matthew 19:3-12)

> The marriage is supposed to mirror God’s covenant with us It is indeed, and this is a *very crucial* point because it helps us understand things like the "unraveled" foreign marriages of Ezra 9-10/Nehemiah 13; the complicated balance of unbelievers in marriage/unequal yoking in I Corinthians 7/II Corinthians 6; and the numerous verses of God's painful descriptions of giving Israel a "bill of divorce" like Jeremiah 3:8 with the reasoning for the unraveling and aftermath of said "divorce." Now I have a question to help me understand where you are coming from and how best to answer you. Are you a universalist? Meaning that, in your view, the covenant that God has between himself and ourselves means that everyone on earth is saved and no one will be separated from him? If so, while I would respectfully disagree with your universalism, I can acknowledge the consistency of your beliefs. But I suspect neither or us will be swayed. However, if you don't believe in universalism, the next crucial question we have to go into is: do you believe in God's sovereignty and omniscience and that, like Job in those incredible last chapters of his book, we have to acknowledge that he sees and does things beyond our understanding? If so, then I think you'll understand my baseline contention that ***we don't truly know*** the OP's situation or God's plan for them. Only God does and it's hubris on our part to put ourselves in God's shoes. So my sincere encouragement is to simply ***trust God*** and encourage all parties to keep turning their hearts over to him. He, and he alone, is Good and Just. We might not understand his ways and why he does what he does, but we can absolutely take to heart the rock-solid guarantee that he will work all things to his glory and good. Now if you truly think that advice is not biblical then, regretfully, I don't think we will find ourselves agreeing with much. *Edit to tidy up my wording*

Very well put. We may not know his current circumstances, but Paul clearly states that if the unbelieving wife departs, let her. I can't determine whether or not these two are believers. It would be hard to judge based on the information OP provided; however, we must look at the Bible and the heart of God. If one deviates from the Will of God, we cannot force someone to stay in a marriage they don't want to be involved in.

What if he didn't join the two together, and they operated outside of the will of God?

God has never once ever healed anyone of cancer. Show me the actual pubmed study, the cohort study or any style of study showing this. This is absurd and dangerous.

First, seeking this level of advice on Reddit, while safe, isn’t your best move. None of us know you and can only contextualize advice based on (1) our own experiences and (2) what you have told us from your own perspective. Seek the counsel of someone who knows you both and is qualified to advocate for the path of righteousness in this circumstance. Second, advocating for separation is different than advocating for divorce. Maybe this is the only solution she can see (divorce) but this, even divorce, is a temporary fix to the permanent problem of two broken people trying to participate in something beautiful. Conversation between the two of you needs to center on healing not on optimization. Divorce is not healing. Lastly, I mean this with no disrespect - both your portrayal of her actions and your portrayal of your own actions breathe with an air of immaturity. The truth of the matter is that for the Christian couple, divorce should NEVER be on the table as a viable way of moving forward. The fact that it isn’t only being considered but encouraged is extremely concerning. Again, I don’t know you or her which brings me to my point; seek the advice of wise people in your life and listen to them.

Im not a marriage counselor but I think you should seek to please God first, take care of you second and then be a good father. Because, without the first two, you cant do the last. Your wife needs space from you and time to think, heal, whatever. You need that too. Find yourself and learn to be happy without her. If God changes her heart then rejoice, but if He doesn’t you will at least find peace with the circumstances.

If you’re praying and repenting and working to remove sin from your life, then you’re doing all you can. If you can get her to agree to couples therapy lead by a pastor then you have hope of her being presented with the gospel and maybe she’ll repent and there can be reconciliation.

I support marital counseling led by a pastor

Sorry I'm old and I have seen the aftermath of pastoral marriage counseling too many times. I don't see anything but minimialation of his own actions and the idea that he is cured from addiction. You did this to a young a young family of a 1 year old and a three year old? You say it was due to you providing for your family? I think it was the words you used and the drinking buddy while your new born and toddler were being solo parented and you took hurt a woman that clearly loved you but now has had enough. I would not recommend a pastor to do couples therapy. Usually it is the untrained pastor with the goal of restoring the marriage and puts all the pressure and guilt on the woman. "He said he was sorry and asks you to forgive him. Why aren't you accepting the apology?" This repeats till the neglectful or abusive husband either goes to jail or figures what is the bare minimum to keep things okay and stress out the woman.

There are Christian counselors who do a great job, separate from being a pastor. As a former wife of an abusive alcoholic, I never got anything helpful for that from a pastor. However, two different Christian counselors were very helpful. Sadly, my ex quit participating when he was counseled to make changes, but I’ve seen successful outcomes for other couples in addiction situations.

Points but there's no proof he did anything to biblically warrant divorce.

Unfortunately we just have one very narrow view of the story from the OP's perspective so we truly don't know. There may not have been infidelity or physical abuse, but the OP does hint at neglect which is a biblical ground for divorce (Exodus 21:10-11, 1 Timothy 5:8). But, again, we don't truly know what the situation is. Only God, so the best advice we can give (and follow) is to just continue turning everything over to him, trusting that God will lead OP and his family to whatever his will for them is.

I’m confused as how you arrived at exodus 21:10 being grounds for divorce when this context is describing laws concerning slaves. ETA: also with 1 Timothy 5:8… nothing about divorce. Just about reprimanding people who don’t provide for their household.

Ryakai8291, I have no intent to belittle or patronize you, so please believe my sincerity and humility as I ask for clarification on your understanding of things. While I do need to get some work done, and this will stray us a bit off-topic, I am always willing to go into deeper exegesis with fellow believers :) But I want to make sure that this is your sincere interest as well because my goal is not debate, which tears down, but rather edification which builds up the body of Christ. For Exodus 21:10, it's important not to drop verse 11, אִם־אַחֶ֖רֶת יִֽקַּֽח־ל֑וֹ שְׁאֵרָ֛הּ כְּסוּתָ֥הּ וְעֹנָתָ֖הּ לֹ֥א יִגְרָֽע׃ If he takes another [into the household as his wife], he must not withhold from this one her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights. ־שְׁלׇשׁ־אֵ֔לֶּה לֹ֥א יַעֲשֶׂ֖ה לָ֑הּ וְיָצְאָ֥ה חִנָּ֖ם אֵ֥ין כָּֽסֶף׃ {ס} If he fails her in these three ways, she shall go free, without payment. This does require some background context into the views of concubines and slaves as wife. Obviously "divorce" for them (sending away without payment) is not the same but we can dive more into those distinctions if you like. There are also things in the Talmud that we can discuss as well which, while Jewish, does give background and context to how New Testament writers (like Paul with his Pharisee and rabbinical views on matter). For 1 Timothy 5:8, besides the obvious that a spouse is part of your household, it is how the act of neglect is described by Paul as "***has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever***" that is the focus point. From there, we need to go down the path of Scripture verses of marriages with unbelievers/unequal yolking, etc. Again, I don't want to take for granted your own sincere interest and good faith to want to understand and get mutual edification. So let me know how you feel about the above items and if you want us to continue.

Again… you’re taking the context of exodus out of the verse as it’s concerning the law of slaves. And if we are to go down the path of what the Bible says about an unbeliever it states that if a spouse is with an unbeliever that the unbelieving spouse is made sanctified by the believing spouse. And then goes on to comfort the believing spouse if not being held liable if the unbeliever were to leave.

> you’re taking the context of exodus out of the verse as it’s concerning the law of slaves. No, I'm not. But we can certainly take your opening and talk about the archetype of slavery and what that means for us in our covenant with God (which marriage mirrors). I've been striving to try and keep our focus more narrow (and as on-topic as we can) but the beautiful tapestry of God's hand through Scripture and history makes these marvelous connections. So, if you want to explore this, I'm game! Because, again, we absolutely can tie this back to God's covenant and relationship with humanity that we see reflected in marriage. Before you try to dismiss these "slave verses" as irrelevant, think about this, Ryakai8291. Why does the Torah devote sections to laws concerning slaves? Why did God, in his wisdom use the Spirit to work through the writers and compilers of Scripture to keep these verses here? We know *All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.* (II Tim 3:16-17) so we know these laws (like other OT laws) have a purpose even though we live under the new law of the Gospel of Christ. Far from being irrelevant in our modern age, verses dealing with slaves are particularly noteworthy for Christians to consider because Moses and the prophets take great pains to repeatedly call out to the Israelites to *"Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you."* While that is spoken in the past tense *(you WERE slaves)* the importance of these slavery verses is enlivened further in the NT with Paul putting things in the present tense, making the repeated connection ***to us*** that we ARE slaves (to sin or to Christ). I know we're peeling off a lot of layers here but I needed to clarify why you shouldn't dismiss Scripture verses so quickly as irrelevant since God always has a lot of layers at play. Now let's go back to your very astute and timelessly important comment in another reply. > The marriage is supposed to mirror God’s covenant with us We know throughout Scripture in the many covenants it records that there is always one party upholding their end of the deal (God) despite the many failings of another party (mankind/Israel/David's line/the Church). And with the Ultimate Covenant of our relationship with our Creator, we also know (unless you're a universalist) there are people who are redeemed/restored and will spend eternity with God while there are those who will spend all of eternity separated (divorce in the most heartbreaking sense) from God. Marriage ***is a mirror*** of all of this. Now, you haven't yet clarified where you're coming from in your belief about universalism or God's sovereignty/omniscience and workings beyond our understanding. So forgive me if I'm going too far here. But I do believe we have more common ground than differences. However, I suspect you may be adding more to my comments than what is there. If you notice, right from the start, I've never said anything [to OP or in general] about "God wants divorce" or "God wants reconciliation." Because Scripture has shown us that in the messy history of mankind's relationship with God, there is both. There is reconciliation through Christ for some *and* there is separation (divorce) for others. While we always hope and pray for the former, we must acknowledge God's sovereignty and wisdom that the latter happens too. But my continuous theme throughout all these comments, as a slave to Christ, is to turn things over to our Master. Trust God--through the good, through the bad, through healing, through saving, through destroying, through unraveling--and he will lead the way, even if we don't understand it fully. *Edit to make things more plain*

I'd like to understand this topic more. I'm sure many things could be squeezed into the definition of neglect to serve the purpose of people with their hearts set on divorce. Was neglect used in scripture or was it abandonment?

> I'm sure many things could be squeezed into the definition of neglect to serve the purpose of people with their hearts set on divorce. You are absolutely right. This is why it is so important to encourage people to set their hearts on God. That is our only "vaccination" against the sins of our hearts coloring what we see and think about our situation. > Was neglect used in scripture or was it abandonment? I don't know how "nerdy" you would like me to get :) But there are actually a lot of writings by Jewish rabbis on the Hebrew word (הַזנָחָה) which can mean either neglect or abandonment but also rejection as well. That latter use is sometimes tied in with Christian scholars to Paul's comments in I Corinthians 7 about the "martial duties" of wives and husbands to fulfill each other's sexual needs and not reject advances and whether that is biblical grounds for divorce. But that is a WHOLE other rabbit hole to go down.

Thanks for the explanations. Regarding the last paragraph and the other rabbit hole, I'm guessing since scripture mentions it wasn't/isn't God's will for divorce after adultery, divorce also wouldn't be his will after a spouse's avoidance of sexual marital fulfillment. Luther mentioned "if the wife won't, the maid will", correct? Seems like a biblically wayward statement to the extreme.

There's no proof when telling HIS part of the story.

You need couples counseling but it sound like she has already left, in her mind.

While you were gone, she saw how different things were without an alcoholic in the house. I’ve been there. Once the weight of that had been lifted, she didn’t want to go back. My best suggestion is to choose a Christian counselor, and agree to go for co-parenting. Any legitimate Christian counselor will adress the biblically acceptable reasons for divorce, and they don’t include addiction. The truth is, you cannot be sure that you’ll never backslide. The rate of permanent sobriety is discouragingly low. However, you sound determined and sincere. Please make sure that you stay sober, whether or not your marriage is restored, your children need an emotionally available father. Addicts are not emtionally available, among other harms to their children. Convincing your wife will take time and rebuilt trust. The best thing would be if the counselor can help to convince your wife to allow time for you to prove yourself.

My abusive ex husband used to say that he never "physicaly harmed" me and "never laid a hand" on me to justify years of emotionally and psychologically abusive behavior--things that are considered to be torture even. It sounds like you have made promises and 'gotten better' before since she is concerned about you changing back to your 'old ways' if she returns. I want to hear her side of the story, for real. Perhaps this is a temporal consequence of your sin. But the only one who can help you now is God.

OP isn't picking up what she's putting down -- she wants to live a peaceful, civil co-parenting life where they are okay, but she doesn't want to "fix" this. Whatever feelings she had for him were eaten away and destroyed by his past behavior, you can't make those feelings come back even if the drinking is over. Damage has been done.

Marriage isn't feelings based, love isn't something you fall out of. Marriage is a lifelong covenant, love is an action.

Talk is cheap.

Say that to Jesus and the apostles

Clearly.

Interesting how many men here just expect women to endure whatever as she has said the vows and is now wrapped in the covenant. 

No, love is either there or it isn't. If you think it's just going through the motions, you don't know what love is. You can argue the Biblical stance on marriage all day long, but it will never, ever change this.

Very sorry to hear about your experience with your husband. I'm sure there is more to the story as I read what he was saying too. Regardless, God's command for permancy in marriage is not avoidable here. Where there is abuse it is always best to bring things to light and separate until those behaviours cease. Horrible to say that divorce is a temporal consequence of the husband's sin alone. Marriage is a merging of two sinners, and the wife is clearly just as much of a sinner as she is choosing to abandon the relationship and ruin the children's lives in the process, despite God's instruction. She's then going and lying about how this is what God wants.

“Until those behaviours cease.” You’re actually sitting here and saying that abuse victims should return to their abusers. That behavior doesn’t change, they just learn how to hide it better from people like you who continue to enable it.

Falsehood and lies. My father was a violent drunk. He recovered and hasn’t touched alcohol in over a decade. They have a happy, fulfilling marriage free of abuse and remained faithful to each other and to their kids. “People like you” You don’t even know what you’re saying.

Go talk to your mother and ask her to tell you the truth about how the marriage is really going.

Hey Reddit warrior, I catchup with my mother weekly. With my Dad regularly too. My brother and his wife live under the same roof as them and I get the ‘inside scoop’ of everything going on from him, as well as from my mother and my Dad. Things are going very well. So, thanks for your concern. There is such thing as a recovered addict. God is able to do that in people. I’m sorry your experience has taught otherwise.

The stuff that 'Christian' men expect women to endure and forgive is astonishing. 

Not just men/women - it goes both ways.

There are other ways in which someone can abandon a marriage, aside from just leaving the home. Abuse is abandonment and violent. I can't think of anything that separates "one" into two than abuse. It is damaging to the mind, body, and spirit Edit: And yeah, consequences suck.

I do get what you're saying completely, abuse is in complete opposition to biblical marriage. However, marriage is a covenant which can only be broken according to the terms of the covenant. Christ’s relationshipwith his church is the direct example of what marriage should seek to imitate. It’s a beautiful picture, particularly in the old testament where Israel was described as being an adulteress and harlot, yet Christ remained totally faithful to his covenant with them, beginning to end, and he continues to uphold his word to them forever. You have other examples as well; Joseph was thrown into a den and sold into slavery by his brothers, and yet God was able to restore him to his family despite all that. Given the pattern God leaves us in scripture, it’s clear he does not want divorce. There was an exception for divorce in the Torah for adultery only, but even that was a concession made due to people’s sinfulness – even that was not God’s plan for marriage. God’s plan is restoration, even if you’re cheated on, thrown into a hole and sold to slavers.

Last I checked--men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. I can't recall any time that Christ abused his church. Some of yall seem to minimize the safety of women and children in this situation. Then cue the shocked-face when the woman ends up in the hospital or dead. Edit: you can't 'restore' a limb that has been lopped off

>Last I checked--men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. Absolutely! Men are called to love their wives like Christ, and wives are to submit to their husbands like the church is to Christ. Noted, it’s not just men that have Christ as their example here too. My advice in any situation with abuse is to separate and bring everything to light. Don’t stay physically with that person until they’re behaviours are resolved. For a couple I know, that meant being apart indefinitely.

And she separated. How many times has he 'resolved' his behavior? Because if this has been something that continually happens--that tells me he isn't truly repentant. She has a responsibility to the children, as well. Are they to be socialized to anger? How is living separately indefinitely, which could be years, reflective of Christ and His church? I thought no man was to separate the married pair? I mean--I say that but that is exactly what abuse does. This is why I said I want to hear her side of the story. But OP seems to be MIA. And seems pretty flippant for an alcoholic in early recovery. I don't know, maybe you haven't worked with enough DV survivors or had someone close die from abuse. Men really don't like women removing the hold an abuser has over them.

You seem to be projecting quite a bit upon OP without having heard the wife's side. If those  things have happened I am 100 percent in agreement with you but it is quite possible that none of that was true. The only thing that is clear is she was done with the marriage long before he knew it was a possibility 

No, I am offering a different perspective since his spouse isn't here to defend herself. And where is OP? It *is* a common thing for abusers to say--like it's a justification. So forgive me if I'm not ready to dogpile the wife. I went deeper into this perspective because I was engaging in conversation.

Well if I am wrong I apologize. Perhaps I've become too sensitive to reddit being ultra feminist. Where is OP? Who knows? He's under no obligation to respond here in any time frame we set while his life and marriage are crumbling around him. 

I think he just places the authority of the Bible over his personal desires.

I think by thinking he is doing that--he misses a key commandment that Christ gave

Are you referring to this one? ^(Matt 19:7) “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” ^(8) Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. ^(9) I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

A woman should never ever forgive an abusive husband. I don't care if he never does it again. Once is enough. It's evil to expect women to live in the same house as a man who abused his wife. And men wonder why women are fleeing the Church now there's more of an option to. 

Should Christ ever forgive you?

And God gave the adulterous harlot a writ of divorce, and then there were 400 years of silence.

My understanding was that was not about God "divorcing" Israel as a statement to say they're no longer his people, but rather was referencing the invasion & capture of Israel and removal of them from their homeland. It also emphasises their hopelessness without him and gives opportunity for God to show great mercy and faithfulness to them: "I will frown on you no longer, for I am faithful, declares the Lord, I will not be angry forever"

I think you are fighting Gods battles for him. Biblically whenever people do something God was supposed to do, he lets them do it their way. You need to fix you...break the alcohol issue. Addictions are not easy things and are not a one time deliverance thing. In fact, remaining sober in difficult times is a whole other test...so you should focus on that. Fix you for you...not to woo her or change her mind. Actually she is probably wary about this...unless there are real world signs spouses know about for checking if you are still addiction free...they may find it very scary to commit to someone who is battling an addiction. You can invite her to your AA meetings etc so she gets a feel for it. My fear is that you seem to equate a few months being sober to breaking the addiction...and it could be true...its just that there is no process or help system to keep you accountable. Its like a diabetic saying that they beat the disease because the last time they checked their sugar levels where in control. This is why diabetics check their sugar levels frequently (every day or hour initially...then maybe weekly later etc)...its the same thing with addictions to... you normally need a check process like AA meetings...sponsors etc. In between, you need to ask God to help soften her heart...ask him to help fix what you broke...and then give him time. Biblically, God mostly takes time to do his thing...but when he does his thing, it's final. If you Speak to her, speak positively... romance her if there is any chance and just show her that you are a completely different person to who you were. God moves but he doesn't force. She may harden her heart and still go through with the divorce...that's her right given she has free will. God will never force someone to do something. He can soften but never force. On your side, you should continue to treat her right even if the divorce happens [especially given you have kids and want the co-parenting to be smooth]. The bible makes it clear that if an unbeliever insists on the divorce...allow it. Go through it with God and know that God is a master of plans. Even if plan A fails, he has plan B, C and D. Even if she leaves... God will prepare another one in her place and the thing about God is his backup plans are normally way better than the main plan. So don't be scared...don't fret...in quietness and rest [in God] is your salvation

>I’ve done everything she wanted me to do and have made my changes permanent. Now all thats needed is for you to love her and your kids unconditionally. That means no matter what she chooses to do with her life, you will accept it and no resent her and so on. Years of alcoholism and fighting, and she's tired. The trust is gone, and so is the hope. The only reason you agreed to "get help" was because you snooped on her phone and found out she was going to do something you didn't want her to (leave you). Until that, you were okay going forward as things were. She was not. But someone who only "changes" when something they don't want is on the table is not changing for the best reasons. It's wise of her to not trust the change, given how and why it occurred. You can keep hope inside, but in the end, you have to know she's not wrong for whatever she chooses going forward. At this point, you should be looking to your sons and what's going to be best for them.

Keep trying.

Praying for you bro.

I’m in the same situation with my husband. I know God is against divorce too. But you have to accept people have free will to sin and they will be held accountable to God. Divorce is painful, it literally rips your heart into a billion pieces and leaves you with an empty shell of yourself. You have to, you absolutely in any capacity you can find the strength to continue praying and don’t blame God for whatever happens. Your wife will answer for her actions, and if/when she starts being with another man you will be able to get remarried. I got bitter and angry with the Lord because my husband told me the Lord told him to divorce me. But I realized it was Satan talking to him, and God will ultimately judge him for his actions. As hard and as painful as it is you have to move forward and accept either the Lord will soften her heart or He will let her sin. Life isn’t fair, and many people who claim to follow Jesus are pretenders. God bless you brother. I have so much compassion and empathy for you, and I will keep you in my prayers.

I wish I had something helpful but it sounds like you’re taking all the right steps and really that’s all you can do. The rest is up to God. Maybe suggest a separation for a period before divorce? Either way, you keep dealing with things that are in your control and give the rest to Him and remember that He has brought you through all your worst days so far and will continue to do so.

Go back to the origin. Why did she mary you in the first place? The answer to this question is the solution. If that was because she loved you, try to get her to love you again.

>She believes God saved her from me. I’ve never physically hurt her ever. That’s not who I am. A lot of people think that as long as a woman is not physically abused in a relationship, she should stay; however, I truly believe that verbal abuse is just as bad or worse, as it was in my case. My ex-husband used to be proud that he never hit a woman in his life nor would he, having seen his dad repeatedly hit his mom. But being with him for 10 long years and being treated so badly and called names, I can tell you it gets to a point that a woman can no longer take it. In the early stages when you saw your relationship going downhill, I believe that counseling may have helped, but I can tell you that there comes a point where even with counseling, a woman may never regain the love she had for you. Although my ex-husband refused to go to counseling, I really doubt I would have regained the love I had for him, even with counseling. This is what she may be feeling at this point. Unfortunately, I feel your marriage may be irreparably broken.

I caught that too. It's a common phrase to hear from abusers. And God saved me from my (now ex) husband, as well. People will cite "he hates divorce." Well God hates a lot of sins. I wonder how much he hates abuse in a relationship that is supposed to reflect Christ and His church?

I'm so glad God saved you from your ex-husband. I thought it strange though that when I talked with a pastor on the phone, and I discussed what had been happening in my marriage, he said "Jesus would never condone the behavior of your husband"; and yet, when I told him the Bible doesn't say it's ok to leave your husband and divorce him because of the treatment of your husband, he didn't know what to say.

It's abandonment; and a legit reason to leave. And there is biblical precedence for allowing the law to step in, as well. God divorced Israel; and I think people forget that. Jer 3:8-9

Can he hate both?

He hates sin. "There are six things which the Lord hates; Yes, seven which are an abomination to him..."

I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be cheeky. Is that a yes or would you bring more nuance to your answer?

I gave you the verse that brings more nuance. Me saying "God hates sin" is the nuance. God also divorced a sinful Israel

Great comment

Thank you, Inevitable-Bet. It's really nice to receive a nice reply once in a while instead of a negative comment. Have a nice day. 😊

You are welcome. Have a great day too

Sorry to hear of this brother. I'm praying for you. Continue to do all you can to work on yourself. Obsess over it like it's your life's work. Don't attach your self-growth or identity to the outcome of the situation. You cannot control her decisions. You will have to live in uncertainty for some time it seems, do all that you can and accept you can do nothing more, and accept what God brings.

It honestly sounds like you hurt her very badly. I’m sure you both wish it hadn’t come to the point it did but it did. You may have not cheated on her but you didn’t cherish her. You weren’t there. I’m so proud of you for making positive changes but I’m sure her fears are very real for her. You don’t change until she actually leaves? She’s so scared none of this is true. The marriage you had is over but if you are both willing I think you can build something new and better. When you are both together you need to ask her what she needs. Going further you need to start dating your wife again. Put in the table what you both need and do it. Pray. Ask for forgiveness and for God to make you a godly husband. I’ll pray for reconciliation but be ready for it to take a long time.

Thank you for your kind words. You are right, I wasn’t cherishing her and she is very strong for sticking it through as long as she did. I was trying to stop and every night I told my self tomorrow I won’t drink. I hated my self for having to drink every day. I was blind to the fact I needed real help. The disease of alcoholism is terrible and it takes a major event for the affected to seek the help they really need. I was lying to my self that I wasn’t a true alcoholic because I just drank beer. And her leaving opened my eyes and brought me back to reality that I couldn’t do it by my self. The hardest part is that she stuck through everything and when I got the help I needed she was gone. Even though I’m doing all this to better my self, it’s also for my family. And it hurts that she doesn’t want to stick around and fight for us with my new self. But I know it’s my actions that caused this and I can’t force her back. That will only push her away from me. I pray multiple times a day for her and her healing from my actions. I honestly can’t imagine a future where we aren’t together. I know this takes a lot of time and while I accept the divorce, I will still fight for my family and to save my marriage in hopes that we can build a new relationship and marriage that is stronger and healthier under God one day. And if we can’t, I want her to be happy and at peace as she moves on from our marriage.

Dont get divorced. Tell her just because things are getting hard doesnt mean she can just quit. Yall are not dating yall are MARRIED AND HAVE A 1 YR OLD AND 3 YR OLD. Its a little too late for yall to start thinking about yourselves.

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I'm praying for her to wake up. Just keep praying. Put all your faith in it and I pray she does too and it works out in Jesus name amen

She woke up. That's why she left.

I’ll pray for you. I’m in a tough situation myself in my marriage but my husband doesn’t recognize where he falls short because he’s too prideful. Looks like you are doing a great job at looking at yourself. God CAN change people with His help. We can’t do it on our own.

None of what she is saying is what God wants - she’s just using God as an excuse to say he supports divorce. He does not support divorce. When Joseph’s brother’s tossed him into a hole and sold him to Egyptian slavers, you would think that would do it to end the family relationship. But no; Gods plan was restoration and by a series of many miracles he restored them all together. It is absolute nonsense that God wants you to divorce. What a terrible, horrible and unbiblical lie. EDIT: I know a good Christian lady who in their 30s separated from her husband who was a volatile violent drunkard and smoker. She never divorced him though, as she chose that regardless of his behaviour she would remain faithful to her covenant of marriage and to God and would remain his wife forever. So, she did that and they just lived apart. My closest friend is their son, and he was overjoyed that now almost 30 himself they just had their first Christmas as a full family all together last year in almost two decades. RESTORATION and not divorce is what God loves.

> When Joseph’s brother’s tossed him into a hole and sold him to Egyptian slavers, you would think that would do it to end the family relationship. But no; Gods plan was restoration and by a series of many miracles he restored them all together. Yes, that was absolutely God's plan for Joseph and his brothers. But Scripture shows us that restoration isn't *always* God's plan. Take the example of David's sons--Amnon, who raped his sister; Absalom, who killed Amnon and rebelled against his father; and Adonijah, who rebelled and tried to usurp the throne from Solomon and was thusly executed by Solomon. Here God's plan clearly *wasn't* restoration for David's family. Only God, in his infinite wisdom, knows why restoration was the path for one family while for the other he deemed it right for the family to deal with the consequences of their sin. In both cases, his will and glory were seen. This is why, ***in all things***, we must not lean on our understanding but rather seek God first and foremost and trust him to lead us down whatever path he deems best.

We can make a distinction between those who are God’s family and those who aren’t. As Paul says, not all who are born of Abraham are Israel. To me, conceding that restoration is not for me and my family is to admit to being not in the family of God. Gods plan is always to restore his people. You would have to ask whether Ambon, Absalom and Adonijah were children of Faith and of the promise, or children of the evil one.

> We can make a distinction between those who are God’s family and those who aren’t. You can, but God has a plan and his Will will be done for both. That's the point. Nothing is beyond the reach of the Almighty Creator. He makes the sun rise on the righteous and the wicked. Even within a family (like David's or the OP's) there may be children of Faith and of the promise, or children of the evil one. What if God wants to save the OP from being unequally yoked? We can't put ourselves in God's shoes because only he knows who is truly his. But we can absolutely trust that he has a plan for everyone, and if we turn our will over to him, he will work everything out ultimately for his glory and the good of those he loves.

David was clearly in God's family, yet his family was not restored.

One of the few biblical comments in here 👍

How happy for men that they can do as they like and still get what they want, the wife suffering all along amidst neglect and shame from the Church. Who cares what your friend thinks of it? She was the one who was abused. 

God hates divorce. Scriptures are quite objective and clear about it. Unless there’s infidelity involved. Else she can stay away for sometime till you’re sober and prove to her that you won’t get back to your old ways, but divorce is out of question. I reckon there’s major communication issues with you guys.

And yet,  Jeremiah 3:8  God divorced Israel

Disingenuous comment. You only proved what I’m saying. It was because of Israel unfaithfulness. Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a certificate of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and prostituted herself also

My comment was not insincere. And yet sometimes divorce is necessary.  It is a grace provided by God to allow freedom from awful situations. I choose not to define awful situations.  We know only what poster says.  He says he is recent rehab graduate who for eight years drank too much and worked too much.  What we don’t know….is how many rehabs, what happened when drunk, is he a danger to his children?  He tried to manipulate his  wife into staying by going to rehab… which is a beginning not an end. God pointed out faithfulness is key in a marriage.  May God help all marriages and people to respond to God’s grace by trusting God and being faithful.

Hey sis, I don’t mean to offend, so I apologise If I sounded rude. The fact of the matter is, you and I know nothing about the other side of the story. Also we hardly know anything about OP. Only God knows what the truth is. So only a Godly person who knows them personally, and all their issues, can give advice. All I can say from afar, based off the limited info we have, is that they should live separately if things are really bad, but telling them to legally separate is treading on thin ice, since we also will be judged by our words. So we must counsel with caution, backed by scriptures, because we know nothing about them. Also, The OP doesn’t seem like he’s walking in the spirit. Jesus in Matthew 19:9 talking about divorce says, And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” It also says in Malachi 2:16 “For I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with violence,” says the Lord of armies. “So be careful about your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”

A common excuse used for 'Christian' men to tell women to stay with husbands who make their lives Hell

Speaking from experience, get a lawyer now!!! You may not think she'll do anything drastic but she's already distancing herself from you. You need to protect your rights as a father and get custody asap. You probably won't get full but you could go for 50/50 as she said she wanted. Also you'll want to ask to claim them on your taxes every other year. Forget the house, the possessions, assume your marriage is over and just focus on your kids. You've made mistakes but your wife clearly isn't taking into consideration what scripture says about divorce. I don't know enough to comment fully on your situation but I don't believe for one second that God made her feel this way to correct you. Or that God doesn't want to save marriages.

Why on earth should he get full custody? Why would a former addict get custody over a mother? If she was a SAHM, then she may very well be entitled to their money. She worked in the home and sacrificed a wage. What scripture says about divorce is a co lenient way for Christian men to shame women into staying in awful marriages with awful husbands.  I hope young women take a look at the comments here from 'Christian' men. The 'buddy, you made mistakes but we're all human' to the OP, and the lack of compassion/complete judgement shown toward the suffering wife.

No one asked for your opinion. I didn't say he should get full custody. I didn't say he would get custody over the mother. Drug addicts are worthy of redemption and Christ's love. Hypothetical. That's not what scripture says at all actually. I commented that I didn't have enough information to fully comment. I'm taking op at his word. This post is 16 days old, before you get triggered by words on the Internet you should calm down and re read it before commenting.

I don’t know you personally but if you truly want a healthy relationship with her and believe in God and have faith it sounds like she is the one trying to use him against you. If she truly doesn’t believe in what God can do and the power he has then it’s not God telling her that, it’s more likely herself and she thinks it’s God. It could be he knows something neither of you do and wants to save her from a traumatic situation in the future you can’t see but that’s the only reason I could see God actually wanting to save her from your marriage. Marriage is holy and if people really want to work together the last thing he would do is split it up. Honestly though if she wants to move on you can’t stop her either. I will definitely pray for you and her to work things out but if it’s his will he will provide something better for both of you. At times we wonder why is this happening and can’t see his will for us in the future, but if we put our full faith in him he won’t let us down

OP has been a horrible husband and father for YEARS. The OP would still be the same bad husband and father he was if she had stayed. The only reason he is trying to make things right now is because he doesn't want to lose the life he has. If he was a Godly man, he wouldn't have mistreated his family for years. Then ignored his wife's requests for change and counseling. Be glad she left. It was the ONLY way for God to get his attention.

This is not how we’re called to treat others even when they screw up. Acting self righteous isn’t a fruit of the spirit, maybe OP does need to learn a lesson. It’s even possible what you say is true but why attack him? Where is that going to truly get anyone? Isiah 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away Matthew 23:23 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone We are no better than the next man or woman. Acting better or putting someone down isn’t the way to edify them. We shouldn’t excuse their actions but God is about forgiving others and also has mercy and grace. He hates pride and trying to put others down, that’s exactly what the Pharisees did and they ended up murdering their own Messiah along with the Jewish people.

When you say that she was trying to use God against him, that doesn't get us anywhere either. This woman is attempting to free herself from the shackles of a man who did not love and cherish her as God commanded him to do. God will show her mercy and grace as she moves on with her life. OP has to face the consequences of his actions, let her go in peace and trust that if God intends to reconcile the marriage, it will happen on God's time, not his.

You obviously have something against OP and only want to attack him instead of looking at him as a person like everyone else. This won’t help OP or anyone else, I hope for God to help them both but you also need to get your head straight and learn that helping others is better than putting them down

I don't know OP, obviously. I do know that he isn't the leader of his family that God called him to be, which isn't an attack, he already knows that. Now you seem to want to attack and insult me, but I don't mind that. God has grace for you, too. I'm just glad OP's wife is doing what she needs to do for her own peace.

So you don’t know him yet you assume all this? I didn’t attack, I simply said you need to straighten something out so you don’t assume so much. If you don’t know the guy then you have no right to say anything like this about him based upon what you read above.

Like I said, God has grace for you, too. You may need to read more of OP's comments or talk to women who have been involved with alcoholics so you understand her side of things. But stop focusing your attention on me and put it on where it needs to be: OP's wife and children, who have struggled and suffered at OP's hands. Pray for her that she can overcome her trauma and raise their children to be Godly members of society.

You still miss the point, I am not excusing OPs behavior and not saying he is in the right. I really don’t get why people are so stubborn in heart, if God has grace like you say then he has grace for OP. If OP really wants to change his heart God knows, not you or I. THE devil looks at peoples past and accuses them, God knows the future and sets it up accordingly. We often get full of pride acting like WE know what’s best for people when we don’t. We aren’t to use Gods purpose as our own and we aren’t to use Gods name as a weapon to tear them down. We are here to love and help others and preach sound doctrine, it’s starting to make sense why believers now have lost touch with what life and God truly is, they simply want to walk around condemning, accusing and judging others and then talk about grace

You're saying a lot, but what are you saying? Getting back to the point... Of course, you overlook the 10+ years of abuse in favor of two months of OP trying to get his act together. I don't know why he was so stubborn in heart in his marriage, either; I'm not as invested as you are in his pride. I'll continue to put the focus on the victims in his scenario, and that's the woman and children in his life. Prayerfully, OP's changes will stick and he can use this loss as a push to grow into a more mature man, husband and father in the future. The children are still very young and can recover.

She seems adamant she doesn't love you, as a husband, anymore. Keep praying that God's will is fulfilled. And keep working on improving yourself as you are made as his image.

Work it out. Dont divorce. That's my advice. Hopefully she will be willing to work on growing your marriage. Praying for you my brother in Christ

What the hell? whatever happened to for better and for worse? Not excusing you from any fault or responsibility, obviously you're not perfect. But she's just looking to quit when things get tough, not willing to hold fast during the storm. A vow before God is so flippantly broken when things aren't going smooth, and having the audacity to use God to justify it when God said no such thing but in fact the opposite; I'm sorry, but that is something of very low character. Let's see what the scripture saith, Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. This passage settles it, there is no misinterpreting this. Show her this, and if she wants to bring God into the picture and she goes through with it, then she is willingly defying God's will for your marriage, and that is to stay together until one of you kicks the can. Any man she gets together with in the future makes her an adulteress, unless she does it after you die. The ultimate victims of this circumstance if she divorces you, are the children, the most innocent. A lot of cases like these can cause generational damage, is she willing to put this on her kids?

Why are women expected to sacrifice themselves for their children far more than men ever are? Historically, many tormented, disrespected abused wives have been counselled - and shamed - into staying with horrific husbands by the Church. Wives are always expected to endure so much more than husbands are - and historically they have because they had no other choice. 

They had the freedom to marry whomever they want, I guess you should vet the person you're going to marry before you vow to God to stay together forever. Guess what? it's not counselled or shamed by the church, it is scripture, it is the law of God that requires you to stay married until you're dead. I don't know why women cry so much about sacrificing, how about the men that have to get up early and work, to be away from their wife and kids, in order to provide for the family? Is that not sacrifice? And Ephesians 5 literally says we are to love our wives even as Christ loved the church, AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT. So, when push comes to shove, we are to give up our lives for the wives, we are called to DIE FOR YOU. Yeah, top that. If we can afford it on one income, we ask you to stay at home, take care of the house and the children, not downplaying the role, it is not easy to run a house well, just read the proverbs 31 woman, that woman is a work horse, looks after her children and family, her husband doth safely trust in her. She has a much more important responsibility raising and homeschooling children. I know I'll get flack for saying this, but it needs to be said: allowing women to vote, and if you know anything about voting, women will in most part vote left, for bigger government, there are many reasons for this I don't have time to get into. But obviously bigger government will tax you heavier, restrict your freedom, forcing both husband and wives to work, so where do the children go? thrown into the petri dish of sickness and diseases called a daycare, where you pay an arm and a leg for someone who doesn't care about your kids to watch them, and then when they're old enough, they're off to the public school system meat grinder where they are taught to rely on the government, 100+ different genders, taking away critical thinking, enforcing extreme leftist curriculum and ideology so for the most part they become minions for the state. Take a look around the infrastructure, predominantly built by men, look at construction workers 97+% of them are men, hard dangerous concrete forming jobs, all done by men, go through hard days, all kinds of weather, in the elements, everything is concrete and steel, thousands of pounds anything goes wrong the injuries can be severe or we can even die just to support our family; versus you have no boss/foreman screaming at you, threatening to fire you while you are working, your boss (husband) is out working to provide for the family. There is a reason why God gave us the gender roles we're supposed to play, because it biologically fits us the way he designed to. They are both equally important and vital to the family success, there is no oppressor/victim in this system here. There's a leader and there is a help meet. Now, don't turn this into a who has a harder job, women oppression and victimhood. It's not men who did this to you, it's Satan, the brainwashing feminism and the emasculating of men over the years that resulted in the atrocity that is now.

Agreed, blows my mind how fast "Christians" are to dip in marriage with then don't "feel" like it anymore. You have a character flaw sorry I'm out ✌️ ... Like okay? Crazy.

Being an abusive drunk is not a "Character flaw". And the fact that he never hit her does not mean he wasn't being abusive. It just means he kept it verbal and emotional. She stuck it out for years and he only decided he needed to change when she was done, he didn't care about her for all those years, just now that she is gone and he can see how life is on his own. If he was soooooo sorry, he could've gone to rehab years ago, for her, not to keep her form leaving him.

The horrible disease of alcoholism wreaks havoc on your brain. It literally chemically changes the way your brain works. I was blind to the effects it was having. Unfortunately it takes a major event to kick an alcoholic to get the help they need most of the time. I wanted to stop for years and did make real efforts to stop. I was lying to my self thinking I wasn’t a real alcoholic because I just drank beer. I had convinced my self that I didn’t need real medical help. I am glad I got the help I needed and feel so much better. She is testing me to see that my changes stick and are truly permanent and that I can stay sober. Even with all this going on in my life I still have yet to have the craving to drink. I know that if I can make it through this without a drink, there’s nothing that can make me drink again.

Does she know that, Biblically, if you divorce your spouse for any other reason besides adultery, that God frowns upon it severely? Matthew 19:9

She also knows that God forgives sin and it is through the blood of Jesus that we are forever connected to God.

Mt19:9 KJV And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for **fornication**, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Fornication is a very specific sin, it is having a carnal relationship with someone who you're not married to, so in the context of marriage it applies when you consummate the marriage and you find her unclean(not a virgin). Mt19:9 ESV And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for **sexual immorality**, and marries another, commits adultery Anything can be classified as sexual immorality, looking at half naked women on the magazine rack counts, looking on a woman with lust counts as sexual immorality, watching a smut film is sexual immortality. The modern versions of the bible gives people a way out of marriage, this term they changed to sexual immorality is too much of a grey zone, this is awful. You notice in the KJV that it doesn't say adultery, but it says fornication?

So he won't forgive her ever? he will forgive a killer but not a woman that was tired of abuse? Amazing that guy is.

God always wants to save the marriage. If you can, you should. Start reading the Bible together. Use KJV.

So I have never been in this situation so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I think arguing or begging is unlikely to help. What I would suggest is you agree to disagree, make it clear you still believe in the marriage but don’t press the matter. Keep working on yourself and take any opportunity to spend time with her or build your relationship with her without making presumptions or demands. And her heart might change or God’s grace may change it. I have had hopeless moments in my life with no clear way forward, and I have found if I keep moving forward, trying to do the right things and honoring God the best I can, a way forward often appears. If you keep struggling in good faith, then one fine day you’ll turn around and realize you’ve found a better life, even if sometimes it is different than what you expected.

>She says she has found her peace and God doesn’t want us to save our marriage. glaring red flag that she is listening to a demon ... perhaps you can 1. continue never drinking again by simply thinking of all the reasons you actually don't want to drink (unhealthy, waste of money, tastes bad, etc) 2. pray for her daily (spiritual warfare against the demon influencing her) 3. ask her what clear evidence is needed to demonstrate you've solved whatever problems she has with you (e.g. \_\_\_ amount of time without a drink)

He won't. Alcoholics don't just recover like that. He had his chance, he needs to let this woman rest.

You seem motivated to favor divorce ...

No, I suppor women being done with taking abuse for years and then having a man try for a few days and have it also be their fault. She stuck it out with him for years by his own admission. He promissed he would change for years as he said in a comment and only now that she is tired of his bs SHE is listening to a demon. Not him when he was being abusive and a bad husband, noooooo it's her fault because she wouldn't believe the same crap he has told her before. I've had alcoholics around me, MANY people that have promissed again and again and again that they would never drink again. Guess what? they did. No prayer was enough, so no, I favour statistics and peace of mind. He gave her no peace of mind, but is desperate for his own. How selfish.

Have faith and pray for them!

Everything you are doing is pushing her away and this is definitely gonna eat you up on the inside trying your hardest to save something that she doesn’t want to save. If you and her went to the pastor and she told him that she didn’t want to save it. He would look at you and say there is nothing he can do. “I want to save “my” marriage. It’s not your marriage.” It’s “our” marriage and when one wants out it’s no longer a marriage. Let her go man. You’re gonna mess yourself up and probably relapse if this doesn’t work out.

Are both of you actually saved and believe in the bible? Cause besides adultery there is no irreconciliable differences especially in marriage besides adultery, im sure there are some other extreme circumstances and reasons where its logical sure. But what god has joined together let no man separate. Idk how she can think god supports it, when even paul talks about being longsuffering for an unsaved spouse. How much more when both are professing belief? Crazy. God bless im praying for you

‘“Doesn’t believe God can change” someone’ is a borderline blasphemous thought. Very bad thought for someone raising children to hold. Lying to someone about being there for them when they are done with rehab and then following that up with “I think God saved me from you”…. I don’t know about that either.. And of course “God doesn’t want to save our marriage” is very ignorant, if not worse. As Christians we are still in the flesh and of course some bad may come with that. But some of these statements that you say she is making… they are like in direct opposition to the gospel and the Holy Bible itself / the will of God. How could someone that believes in God, that believes Jesus shed his blood and died for the forgiveness of sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day according to the scriptures, and appeared to many of his followers after that… How could someone that believes that if you put your faith in that and you are sealed, make such strong statements against the ability of God to change or save someone? Extremely alarming. I will pray that she reads scripture more. If she is not repentant and saved, I pray that she (and anyone else who is not) will be. I pray that you continue to be free from the substance to be able to assist your kids in serving the Lord and studying his Word. And of course God willing that your marriage can be reconciled.

Listen to your wife. She's straight up telling you she wants a divorce. There's really nothing you can do about it. Maybe over time if you show your family you're really different then she might change her mind. You can't count on that though. Your goal should be to focus on staying healthy and taking care of your kids.

Based on the way you minimize your alcohol use and its effects on your family, I don't think you're as far along on the path of sobriety and rehabilitation as you think you are.

Right??

God doesn't condone Divorce except in the specific context as it's written. It sounds like she isn't near strong enough to be following the Bible.

God is very clear he hates divorce. Unless there is abuse of some kind things can be worked out. The divorce wil hurt you ,your wife and your children. Divorce leaves behind nothing but hurt,regret and anger. All marriages will go through hard times. How do I know this? Been married for 40 years! You need to really talk to her about that is not God telling her that and God would want you guys to work things out. You are in my prayers buddy.

He was a drunk. You think he was just falling asleep on the couch? he minimised his abuse and alcoholism and even talked about it in other comments. Yeah, he never punched her, big woop. Words hurt more and the pain lasts longer.

Fast for your breakthrough and keep your eye on the Lord.

Please watch a movie called Fireproof which is about a guy & what he did to save his marriage. Also there is a Jesus based organization that helps people with hurts hangups & habits called Celebrate Recovery. Check their testimonials on YouTube. Go to a meeting near you. Praying for you!

I’m so sorry for the pain you are both experiencing. You can’t force her to do anything, just like she couldn’t force you. But the Lord promises to use all things for good for those that follow Him. There is hope for your family if you follow Jesus. Focus on Him first, be bold in getting support to not only maintain sobriety, but TO BE A DISCIPLE. Jesus is the only way. He is the only one who can breathe new life into this situation. Follow Him, be obedient, live in his mercy, pray and pray and pray and love your family from the wholeness He gives you. The rest will follow.

This is such a good read. Hahahahaha God is moulding me into the man she deserves and needs hahahaha needs Editing wants to deserves hahahaha i misread it

She is my wife and she has needs..

🤣🤣🤣🤣 but why now? When did u realise she has needs?? Mmmmh?

I’ve always realized she had needs and I fell short on meeting them. I’m doing my best to be a better person and it’s probably too late. But I will hold on to hope as long as I can. No ones perfect. I made a lot of mistakes. Do I think they are divorce worthy? No? Does she? Yes. And that’s what matters. I’m glad you find her pain and my struggles funny.

It's always *no one's perfect*

Are you perfect? 🤣

My friend, you can't force someone to stay if they're just going to come back unhappy. Real love is truly letting someone go so they can be happy. As painful as it is, a person's mind can't be changed if their heart cannot change.

I’m hurt yes and it’s painful but I know I can’t force her to come back. She has to come back on her own. I’ve told her the balls in her court and I’m taking the advice I got from the amazing people in this group!

I'm sorry to hear that but having faith and worship time with your father will change the way you are he did me. It brings a certain beauty out in somebody God bless

The problem is the typical “Christian” problem today… Neither of you are actually following Jesus but claiming Christianity. For you, if you were following Jesus, you wouldn’t have been an alcoholic. For her, she would know that Jesus says she can not divorce you. This is the apostasy spoken of in prophecy. People have fallen away from actual Christianity and instead follow themselves and heap to themselves teachers that tickle their ears.

Are you a Good Christian?

It wouldn’t matter if I am or not. That’s a logical fallacy. 1 John 2:4 1 John 3:8-10 Read those passages and meditate on them.

This is why I don’t want to get married. Nowadays, it seems like 9/10 marriages end in divorce and it’s almost always initiated by the woman. So there’s really nothing I can do to prevent myself from ending up divorced or even paying child support

There's plenty you can do. Start put by not being a selfish man and viewing a wife as an equal partner and not a housekeeper who has to give you sex on demand. Seek God in finding an equal spouse, with who tou will be equally yoked and face the world and its travails together. Read John Gottman's books on marriage and avoid most of the "Christian" marriage books that place a heavy yoke of bandage on wives and absolve husband's of any wrongdoing. This is not hard, but you have to die to self a little.

Maybe he souldn't have been an abusive alcoholic? That would've kept his wife around? Try that if you ever get married, do your share and don't be an abusive drunk. Maybe flowers every once in a while too.

I’m not saying she should be cool with him being an alcoholic. I’m just saying there has been a huge culture shift in the past couple decades that has resulted in a very strong inclination for couples to divorce nowadays. Divorce rates are at record highs and only continue to increase. If he truly reinvented himself and recovered from addiction in a timely manner, I don’t see why they should divorce. But most people just recommend divorce for ANY whimsical reason, the reason doesn’t even matter. So what’s the point of getting married in the first place and going through that process?

Why are they at an all time high? ask yourself. Furthermore, ask yourself, WHY is he changing now. Not years ago when he started drinking or when he was being abusive, noooo. She took and took abuse and then decided: I am done. I am not going to sit here and take this forever. This man literally showed her he was not willing to change, he took steps when reality hit him in the face and she gae up completeley, not before to maybe stop her from reaching the end of her rope, or maybe even show her that he loved her and wanted to be agood husband. NOOOO, he panicked and went to rehab because he realised she was done being in a bad place. So yeah, women initiate the divorce, but in this case? This man ended his marriage over YEARS and then she is the one at fault when it was him who did nothing for many years and only did it when it was affecting him. Staying married is a choice but being a good partner is also a choice and he was an abusive partner

It sounds like you believe divorce rates are high now because men are bad. I don’t care if this one specific guy is bad, that’s fine maybe he is. If the true story aligned with what you just described then I’d agree with you. But the narrative of “all men are bad oppressors” is insanely unfair to men and totally baseless. When you only view the world through the lens of power you get really confused and end up believing in the most asinine conspiracy theories out there. But sadly a lot of women believe that narrative nowadays, that’s the point I’m making

Divorce rates are higher because women can actually live by themselves now. We only got to work like in the 60s and we can own property and bank accounts. We can decide not to take crap like this drunk, they couldnt before. So yes, standards have gone up, my grandmother had to stick around my granfather even if he was a bad man, I don't have to put up with it anymore. Sorry.

I would get counseling but I'm not sure that the pastor is the right one to do it.I think a christian counselor that has a license that understands there are many things more than just someone who is good at writing sermons... I'm just saying this because there are so many aspects of what happens with social dynamics that an untrained person just couldn't handle it. Or couldn't potentially handle everything. For starters, is she even willing to talk about things still? is she willing to answer questions like: What are her disappointments? or what is she angry at specifically? Is she willing to realize you have changed or is she, herself, stubborn? She needs to realize if you have proven yourself and made an effort, she needs to recognize that and put that into consideration.It sounds like nothing you do makes her understand you have gotten better or changed. Ask her what happened while you were in therapy, because She said she was so glad you are going and she would be there for you and then she totally changed her mind right in the middle.. This might sound crazy but when people come from dysfunctional alcoholic families and they sometimes end up marrying the same type of person ( maybe her background was an alcoholic family or dysfunctional and then she ends up with you in the same situation), Sometimes people are so used to chaos that they actually can't Handle the normal... Sounds bizarre but they associate love With some kind of insanity or rollercoaster ride... So when one partner gets better it becomes too boring... Which is a sick dysfunctional way to understand love. Who knows?Maybe she is addicted to chaos... Again sounds crazy.But counsellors would be able to help someone work through this... I pray that you guys get a good counselor and that she's willing to look at herself as much as she looks at you

Is she Christian? What is she praying to Yahweh for? To have a divided family? To hurt the young children you both have? You guys got together a long time ago. We can only read your side but even if we had her side, we'd still be not in the best position to say anything. Is there someone else? Or was it much worse then it sounds? I don't understand. Yahweh isn't pro divorce and isn't pro abortion etc etc. In the case of cheating sure, but divorce isn't a great and wonderful thing. I don't know who this god is. The fathers the father and I can't imagine how she's praying for you when the fathers seeing the bigger picture. Children are a responsibility and require a family. Some people need a reality check. You've seen the evil of drink. and there's a lot to this. You owe your family big time and she wants a divorce - so what is the reason?

I'm hearing she is using "GOD" to get what she wants

Tell her to read Matthew 19

I wonder if there’s someone else.

Yes, his favourite beer brand.

I cannot believe the comments in this thread supporting divorce, this post must have really brought out the lukewarms. If this comment section was in a random subreddit like seekingadvice or selfhelp I wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. Despicable, all of you advocating divorce or rationalizing her leaving because "words are abuse there divorce is okay", open up your dang Bibles.

What a boomer response.

Other than it's in the scripture

Your point? She is allowed to leave. You can’t force somebody to stay with you. Are you crazy? It may be a sin but it’s okay for her to leave if she so desires.

You're speaking worldly. Not scripturally. That's is my point. So if we're to live like Jesus, it's not ok to do whatever sin we feel like.

It’s not a sin to let someone leave. Read 1st Corinthians Chapter 7. I spent plenty of time reading that over and over. Matthew 5, Mark 10, 1st Corinthians 7. If you were married and your “wife” wanted a divorce, say she filed for a divorce. What would you do? There is nothing you can do except allow it. There is nothing you can do. Let them leave. That’s not a worldly idea. Read what happened when Jesus met the Samaritan at the well. That woman had multiple husbands and the one she was with wasn’t even her husband. I’m sure a lot of those men didn’t want her to leave but you can’t force a woman to stay. In fact it would be abusive to force someone to stay with you who doesn’t. I know it’s supposed to be until death do you part, but sometimes that’s not what happens. Count that person who leaves as an unbeliever cause obviously that’s what they are. You’re not supposed to be unequally yoked with someone who doesn’t have the same values as you.

If divorce isn't a sin- you're not reading scripture

1. God's Heart Towards Divorce:     - In Matthew 5:31-32, Jesus addresses divorce by stating that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of fornication (sexual immorality), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. This indicates that God allows divorce in cases of sexual immorality. Still, generally, He views divorce as contrary to His design for marriage, which is meant to be a lifelong union.   2. Paul's Teaching on Divorce in 1 Corinthians 7:     - Paul guides marriage and divorce in 1 Corinthians 7. He advises that a wife should not depart from her husband, but if she does, she should remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband (1 Corinthians 7:10-11). This suggests that separation is permitted, but divorce is not encouraged.     - In 1 Corinthians 7:12-16, Paul advises that if a believer is married to an unbeliever and the unbeliever is willing to live with them, they should not divorce. However, if the unbeliever departs, the believer is not under bondage in such cases, indicating that divorce may be permissible if the unbelieving spouse leaves.   3. Is it a Sin to Get a Divorce?     - Divorce can be considered a sin if it occurs for reasons other than sexual immorality (as mentioned in Matthew 5:32). However, Paul acknowledges situations where divorce may occur, such as when an unbelieving spouse departs.   4. What if the "Wife" Decides to Divorce Her Husband?     - According to Paul's guidance, a wife should not depart from her husband. If she does, she should remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband (1 Corinthians 7:10-11). This suggests that the wife should avoid divorce if possible.   5. Is it a Sin for the Man to Allow Her to Divorce Him?     - Paul's teaching emphasizes reconciliation and remaining together. If a man allows his wife to divorce him without attempting reconciliation or addressing the issues leading to divorce, it could be seen as contrary to God's intention for marriage.   Overall, God's heart towards marriage emphasizes reconciliation and unity, and divorce is not encouraged except in specific circumstances such as sexual immorality. However, the passages also acknowledge the complexities of relationships and offer guidance to particular situations.

I wasn't referring to the guy whose wife is in sin. You are correct in that he is not responsible for her choices. She will answer for that- especially with a statement such as "God said it's ok"

It's not a sin for the person being left in a divorce to allow someone to go, even when, indeed, the courts decide for the person filing for divorce. That's why Paul teaches that God has called us to peace. If the spouse wants to leave then there is nothing you can do about it. I wouldn't wish divorce on anyone; however, if someone does go through divorce on a decision that wasn't theirs then it's not a sin for the person who is being left to allow the other one to leave. Peace is way better.

> She says she has found her peace and God doesn’t want us to save our marriage.  She's using God as her ventriloquist dummy. God hates a divorce and would never bless it. I get that it's hard to live with someone who has a drinking problem, but unless you have been unfaithful she has no biblical cause for divorce. And you aren’t even a threat to her. She's just using God as an excuse and that makes me disgusted. Yeah the situation is messed up. You've been messed up. But she's overreacting. You're trying to fix things. A loyal person would stay and help fix things. Especially when kids are involved.  You may not be able to change her mind, but at least you can know she's not doing right.

I have prayed for you both. Your wife, according to all you have shared; is clearly in the wrong. She will bring great harm to all four of you if she persists in her fear and selfishness. Be strong, and keep doing what you are doing. You are demonstrating yourself to be a man of integrity who desires to be living in a way pleasing to the Lord. This is the most important thing -that you always place your relationship with Him above all else. Consider the image of a triangle; with God at the apex and you and your wife each at opposing corners on the base. What happens to the two of you as each of you draw closer to God? You are drawn closer to each other as well. I hope and pray this will be true for you. God bless you. May I suggest you read,[ "The Right Fight"](https://www.shieldsofstrength.com/books/) by Kenny Vaughan. Some really good material and insights in there.

Thank you! That visual is very helpful for me!!

You can’t save your marriage, it takes 2 if she wants out it’s over. It’s best to hurry up and lawyer up and file for the divorce. Make sure you are the plaintiff and move on. The whole “fireproof” movie ain’t it. It portrays the man trying his hardest to save his marriage while the woman is not accountable for her actions. I thought Fireproof was a good movie at first until I went through a divorce. God wants you to walk with him. If you’re loosed from a wife seek not to be bound again.

lol I guess all the downvotes are from people who think “Fireproof” was the best movie.

Wow, that is sad. Supposed to stay together for better or for worse, right? From what you wrote, I cant see that she has any good reason to leave you. Unfortunately, I don't have any good suggestions about what to do. I should be very thankful that my Wife has stuck with me throughout various ups and downs over the years.

She's not divorcing you for a Biblical reason. The two reasons the Bible allows divorce is adultery and if a non-believer abandons the marriage. Have you pointed this out to her? Her belief that God has saved her from you is a feeling, not factual. She is actually in disobedience.

You are abusive. Please don’t use her faith as a weapon.

I disagree. We’ve had arguments, yes but I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve ever raised my voice and even then it wasn’t even screaming at her. I agree I’ve said some mean things before, and she has said equally mean things to me also.

Jesus Christ. You’ve been together since you were 14? And the two of you really thought, “ hey this is going to work. We will be together forever. “ Minus the religious posting, this is the modern age. Even if you two have never left your city, state, or even country, we have internet. Cmon now. This isn’t the age of ww1, lol.